Dog Anxiety Decoded: Expert Tips from Animal Trainer Nikki Varva

In this episode of In The Vet’s Office, Dr. Josie Horchak welcomes back fan-favorite guest Nikki Varva, expert dog trainer and founder of Always Training K9s. Together, they take a deep dive into the often misunderstood world of canine anxiety, exploring not just how it shows up—from subtle cues to more serious behavioral issues—but also what you can do to help.

Josie and Nikki discuss practical strategies including crate training, tethering, and setting healthy boundaries, all of which can support a dog’s ability to self-soothe and feel secure. They also unpack common indicators of stress that may surprise even experienced pet parents, and share tools for managing separation anxiety with compassion and consistency.

Whether you're raising a new puppy or supporting an anxious adult dog, this episode is full of real-world advice and actionable tips to help your canine companion find calm in a chaotic world. Don’t miss this insightful and heartwarming conversation! 🐾

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Yeah, you're listening to in the Vets Office with doctor
Josie Horchak.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
All right, everyone, welcome back to in the Vets Office.
I am your host, doctor Josie, and you guys are
in for a treat. We have a very exciting episode today.
Last season we had Nicki Varva on, who is one
of Nashville's most sought after dog trainers, and we had
such an overwhelmingly positive response to that episode. I said,

(00:38):
we have to bring her back. So here she is
welcome to in the Vets Office. Nicki, Hey, Josie, thanks
for having me back.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
I'm excited to be here yet again.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
I know this is basically like you know what you're
doing now. The first time we were nervous.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
Oh, I was very nervous. I was kind of nervous too,
But not today. I'm ready for it now.

Speaker 3 (00:54):
I think, you know, I had a lot of people,
even people that come into training before they come in now.

Speaker 1 (00:59):
Are listening to the podcast.

Speaker 3 (01:00):
Cool kind of It's actually like I'm like, hey, listen
to my podcast if you want to come to training.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
It's like my new commercial. I like that. It's great marketing.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
Yes, yes, And really the thing that we had discussed.
Is that for me as a veterinarian and for you
as a trainer, want probably the number one behavioral thing
that is brought to my attention in dogs, and I
would have to imagine you too as anxiety. And after
our episode, I had so many owners messaging me saying, hey,
my dog has separation anxiety or general anxiety, like can you.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
Talk about that?

Speaker 2 (01:31):
So I figure we could use this episode today to
dive into all things anxiety and dogs love it. Before
doing that, though, we are going to do our case
of the week as always, and this case has gotten
a lot of traction on Instagram if you guys have
been watching. I had a five year old boxer, her
name is Okra, and her parents are amazing. They're like

(01:52):
very attentive, and they one day out of the blue,
they were like, this is there's something going on with
Ochra's tail. We're not really sure and send me a
picture and low and behold there is a growth on
her tail that looks like a toenail.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
I saw that. I was like, what is that? Like?
I was blown away.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
I was on vacation when I get this text and I'm.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
Like, whatever you do, don't touch it. Leave it.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
I'm so excited, like, I can't wait to see this
growth because there are it's like a very rare growth.
And so I said leave it, like whatever you do, Like,
I'm so pumped. And I get home from vacation. It's
Monday morning, first thing I wake up. I don't even
need coffee that morning. I'm like, this is gonna be
so cool.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
These are things you geek out. Oh my god, it's
like the coolest thing ever is a doctor. I'm like,
this is the case of a lifetime.

Speaker 2 (02:38):
And so anyways, went and looked at it, and it
sure enough is rock hard like a toenail.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
She's really sensitive on it, and she's got that like little.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
Nub toe, so it looks like a toe coming out
of her toe, out of her tail. All that to say,
we decide, yes, we should take off this growth, figure
out for sure what it is. But the result, I
know everyone has been waiting with suspense. It came back
as something called a karatoma. So it's not actually a

(03:08):
real toe, but it is, for all intents and purposes,
a toe nail, which is keratin growing out of the skin.

Speaker 1 (03:16):
And how rare is that? Super rare?

Speaker 2 (03:18):
I mean, gosh, I. I took it off in a
hospital where there were five veterinarians there. These vets have
between all of us, gosh, we have like fifty years
of experience and maybe more, and none of them have
ever seen a caratoma before, so it's pretty unusual.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
And I've been looking on. If you hear tap.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
Dancing in the background, that's because Sia's coming down the stairs.
I just turned for tonials. I just lost my train
of thought. Oh now I'm getting targeted on TikTok for
how kratoma is. Apparently in humans there are tonails that
grow out of people's heads.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
So yeah, so great, this is something else now, but
you know, we need to worry, I know.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
And then really so, yes, it's a caratima. And then
really the big interesting thing was I went back to
their house a couple of weeks ago to look at
their other dog, and the mom was like, oh my god,
Doctor Josie like, I'm so embarrassed.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
I was like what she was like?

Speaker 2 (04:12):
Okra went to the groomer, and the groomer was like,
where did her toenail go? And the mom was like,
what do you mean? And he was like, the tonail
that's been on her tail that I've been trimming for
two years.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
This groomer has.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
Been trimming the dog's toenail on her tail for two
years and never said and never mentioned it in this
so then the owners had no idea because and I
had never seen it. I mean I looked at this
dog many times, but she has the long, like longer
hair at the end of her tail, and the tonail
was getting trimmed.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
And yep, she's had that toenail for two years.

Speaker 3 (04:47):
That's a common thing that groomers see. They're just not
telling people.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
He's like, well that it was just a toenail on
a tail. I guess I'll trim it.

Speaker 3 (04:54):
Like the things we see in the dog world, you know,
are normally unknown to people, but sometimes we're just like
I've seen it.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
You're like mamp whatever. Ride He's totally unfazed.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
So, yes, that is the story of Okra and the
toe on her tail on her tone say, oh my god,
tonyil on her tail. Okay, we are going to do
our listener Q and A's We're going to kind of
flip the script today. I asked Nikki, I really rapid
fire questions at you. The last time you were here,
so I figured it would only be right to let
you rapid fire questions at me. I know you posted

(05:25):
on Instagram asking people what questions they had, so I
don't know any of the questions I'm about to get.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
So let's hear it.

Speaker 3 (05:31):
So they want to know. They want to know about
debunking neutering. Oh one, is it a behavioral thing? If
you've got a dog that's got behavioral issues, if you
neuter your dog, will it fix and cure all of
your behaviors?

Speaker 1 (05:45):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (05:45):
And then really, do you have to neuter a male dog?

Speaker 1 (05:50):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (05:50):
Great questions? I would say, do you have to? No,
you don't have to do anything. There are pros and
cons to both. Let's start with behavioral issues. If your
dog has behavioral issues, neutering it is definitely not going
to fix the behavioral issues. I would say that is
that it comes a lot from training, and whether or
not they have their.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
Balls does not matter at all when it comes to that.

Speaker 2 (06:14):
And I will say, if you're going to take them
out and about and you don't have a dog that's
very well behaved and they are intact, they definitely can
have some like pretty intense energy and be going after females.
So in that sense, yes, maybe it can help a
little bit. But like if your dog has just like
run of the mill behavioral issues, neutering it is not
going to be your one stop fix.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
I will say.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
The benefits medically speaking, the benefits too neutering are icee
dogs that are older that get testicular cancer, and so
neutering them eliminates the likelihood of them getting testicular cancer.
And then the other big one is intact males can
get prostatic disease, so they can get prostatitis, which is

(06:56):
an infection or inflammation of their prostate, which can cause
really big issues with them urinating, and they may have
to be on lifelong medications, and so neutering them can
really help with.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
That makes sense, Yeah, it does make sense.

Speaker 3 (07:09):
A lot of times, you know, people will call in
or you know, call me and be like, hey, I'm
going to neuter my dog and he's still acting aggressive
and anything like that, and I'm like, well, you know,
neutering your appointment.

Speaker 1 (07:19):
You can keep it.

Speaker 3 (07:19):
Yeah, I don't care if he comes in with balls
or no balls, but it's not going to fix, you know,
the behavioral issues that you're having so it's nice to
clear that up.

Speaker 1 (07:26):
Yes, definitely. So the next one.

Speaker 3 (07:28):
Actually comes from a trainer, which was super cool to
me because we like to do preventive care, cooperative care.
You know, we're messing with dogs, pause their ears, their
mouth and just getting our hands all over them.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
But we want to know what can we.

Speaker 3 (07:42):
Actually do owners and trainers, what can we do that
will help veterinarians when we bring dogs into the vet?

Speaker 2 (07:48):
Yes, oh my gosh, I love this question. The second
you get a puppy or any new dog really, but
especially puppies because that's when we have our that's like
prime time to desensitize them. Get your fingers in their
ears and their mouth, touch their toenails. The majority of
what I'm doing as a veterinarian is I'm doing a
full exam, so I've really got to get into their

(08:09):
mouth and look at their teeth. I've got to flip
those ears over and stick my otoscope in. My nurses
have to turn their toenails, and naturally most dogs are like, hey,
get away from me, lady, Like I don't.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
Want you doing that.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
But if they're already desensitizing, their owners doing it all
the time. That makes my life so much better and
it makes the dog and cats so much less stressed
at the vet.

Speaker 3 (08:29):
So it's it good for just the owner. Would you recommend,
like other family members touching the dog as well to
help with not just being okay with the owner touching them,
but maybe somebody else within the family touches them as well.

Speaker 1 (08:40):
Absolutely, yep.

Speaker 2 (08:41):
Everyone in the family should be able to do exactly
what the owner's doing, and that really goes with socializing.
So getting them social around other people, asking your neighbors,
friend's cousin, that's over for the barbecue. Hey do you
mind feeding Fluffy some treats and like looking in his ears?
Just that way, when it is a stranger like me
and a little bit more stress all of a situation,
they are not as nervous, all right.

Speaker 3 (09:01):
I Mean that's really good advice, but it's also too
is let's go in the other spectrum. Is you have
an older dog, or you rescue a dog that is
terrified of the vet, when would you recommend and maybe
what situations would you recommend, maybe saying hey, let's give
this dog some trazodone because we think about this as
we see you guys, I don't know. Maybe if we're lucky,
you know what I mean, Yeah, just coming in for

(09:22):
the shots or somethings like that, but it's not a
great experience. You're poking on them, protting on them, doing
all kinds of things to them. When would you tell
an owner to be like, hey, let's just for the
vet visits, let's get through this to where it's an
experience that we can get through. When would you recommend
and what procedures would you recommend that the dog comes
in on something that kind of levels them out to
feel okay?

Speaker 2 (09:43):
I think that's such a great question. And I always
joke around with my nurses. I'm like, can you imagine
not being able to talk your mom or dad taking
you to this random place, this random lady sticking her
fingers in your mouth and your butt like looking giving
you shots?

Speaker 1 (09:57):
Like how scary?

Speaker 2 (09:59):
So I would say, first and foremost, if you can
find a vet clinic that practices fear free handling, that
to me is really important. That is a certain style
of handling that they do at the clinic that's really
low stress for the animals, And they've done a lot
of like work with understanding nonverbal cues in our dogs
and oh, this dog's looking its lips. It's probably stressed.

(10:21):
So that's kind of first and foremost. Secondly, tras doone
has a time and a place. I think what I
really focus on is how urgent is do I need
to look at this pet and assess that this pet like,
how urgently sick are they? So if it's like, hey,
this is the first time Fluffy's been to the vet,
We've never met him before, he's a little timid, I'm

(10:43):
going to be sitting on the ground with them, offering
them treats.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
Lots of positive reinforces, right, lots of cheese, squeeze cheese.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
Honestly, craft to just start sponsoring me at this point.
So lots of positive reinforcement in that sense. And I
really recommend doing happy visits to owners that.

Speaker 1 (10:59):
Are nervous to go to the vet.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
I say, hey, bring Fluffy and get them on the scale,
give them a snack, like, let them get used to
the smells that are here. I will even take five
minutes out of my day during a happy visit to
come say hi to the pet.

Speaker 3 (11:11):
Now, happy visit is something I have never heard of
until this trainer. You had actually had worked with her
dog that happy visits. Her name is Riley and his
name is Luna.

Speaker 1 (11:19):
Amazing.

Speaker 3 (11:19):
Doesn't like to be touched, doesn't like the whole you
know it, doesn't like ears anything like that. But you
did happy visits and even now she can go to
the vet and has good experiences for it. But I
had never heard of because I feel you guys are
so busy, you know what I mean, And I don't
think owners honestly know that you can do happy visits.
And I don't know if every vetinarian does that, but
I think that is just like you come in.

Speaker 1 (11:38):
You get some treats, you're here.

Speaker 3 (11:40):
Yes, you don't get anything in your butt exactly.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
I don't have to stick my finger in your butt
every single time. Like what a concept. Yeah, happy visits.
I remember Riley and Luna. Luna is a nervous girl.
But happy visits are so important. And if your vet
maybe they don't recommend them, but you can still swing
by your vet anytime. And if you bring it up
to your vet, I gear it to you. Your vet's
gonna say, heck, yes, please please.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
Come on in now.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
If they are really sick, let's say. And I really
need to get my stethoscope on them. I really need
to get inside their mouth. I have to draw blood
on them, and I'm going to probably recommend giving them
a little trasodone before it.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
Trasdone is super safe.

Speaker 2 (12:19):
It is never my goal to like zombie out your pets,
but if it's going to make them a little bit
less stressed and make me able to get done when
I need to get done, then I definitely think there's
a time and a place for it.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
It's very good. I'm mean to totally understand that. So
very good.

Speaker 3 (12:31):
That's all the questions that we had, you know, going
into it. A lot of you know questions again are
just your basic ones that I think you've already answered
in your you know, your other podcasts. And I always
tell people to continue to listen. This is my favorite
podcast because there's I mean, I've never stopped learning. But
I also know when I listen, I'm.

Speaker 2 (12:45):
Like, I didn't know that, you know, get information and
some laughs here and there. Absolutely, Okay, Nikki, let's dive
into anxiety and dogs. I'm sure this is like you
do all day long, all day long, you know, all
day long. How would you say so a lot of
times owners I'll see a dog that comes into the clinic. Now,

(13:08):
coming into the clinic is not like a great baseline
to tall the dog's anxious or not. Now that I've
started a concierge practice, I am going into people's homes
and I think that allows me to see like the
general demeanor of the pet. And I'll be like, Oh,
this dog is This dog to me, seems generally anxious.
Now we have Biggie coughing in the background. We've had
Saya tap dancing, now we have Biggie coughing. So to me,

(13:32):
I'll say, oh, this pet looks generally anxious. To me,
the owner, I'll say, oh, really, like I never thought that,
Or the alternative of an owner is like, I think
my dog's anxious. How do you tell owners what are
they looking for? When they can deem whether or not
they're pet is anxious. I'm going to honestly say ninety
nine point nine percent of dogs that I encounter are anxious.
And what does that look like?

Speaker 1 (13:52):
It is?

Speaker 3 (13:53):
You know, it goes into behavioral which most people see
is you know, the shaking and the panting and maybe
some drooling or being afraid of people.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
Like all of that is you know, anxiety, But also.

Speaker 3 (14:02):
Too is your happy, go lucky dog that cannot settle
when people come over, that you know, art is just
all over the place and jumping on people. That's anxiety
because your dog doesn't know how to act in a situation.
And so if you think about this is if the
dog doesn't know how to act in a situation, then
they are going to be anxious because they don't know

(14:24):
what to do with the overstimulation or being afraid or
being fearful and all of those things. So they're just
it comes out in different ways. You have some dogs
that flee and you're like, oh, they're scared and they're anxious.

Speaker 1 (14:34):
But even to the.

Speaker 3 (14:35):
Dogs that are all up on people, hyperactive, that doesn't
mean that your dog is happy. I mean it can be,
but it's also to your dog is anxious because somebody's
in their home, or they've met somebody, or a new
dog comes in.

Speaker 1 (14:46):
It doesn't matter.

Speaker 3 (14:47):
They just don't know how to handle the attention that
they're getting or what is changed in their environment. What
people see is when you see a dog that's neutral,
that's what it teaches. Neutrality is being able to have
guests come in or being out at a coffee shop
and my dog is just laying down. I get so
many comments are like is your dog okay? So I'm like, yeah,

(15:07):
he's just chilling.

Speaker 1 (15:08):
Yeah, I mean he's calm.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
And so a lot of times people say like they're like, oh,
and so they don't understand that a calm.

Speaker 1 (15:14):
Dog is a happy dog.

Speaker 3 (15:15):
A crazy, over energetic, out of controlled dog, or a
fearfull dog of course is not happy.

Speaker 1 (15:20):
They don't feel good right, and they can't talk.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
So a lot of times that anxiety, it does manifest
as like hyperactivity, whether it's humping.

Speaker 1 (15:30):
That's a big one where dogs are like, wow, I'm
so amped up. I don't know what to do, and
they just start pumping things.

Speaker 3 (15:35):
Or they even start nipping, and then they start pulling
on your clothes and then that turns into growling or
even I've had dogs that constantly lick, like they can't
control their liquor. You know, like, yes, exactly licking because
they're just one licking is a soothing thing for a dog,
but then also two is like they can't control it
because they're just like like, I don't know what to.

Speaker 1 (15:52):
Do, so I need to lick.

Speaker 3 (15:53):
And some people are like, oh, they give kisses, and
I'm like, your dog just doesn't feel good.

Speaker 1 (15:56):
That is anxiety. Yeah, he's scared.

Speaker 2 (15:58):
Yeah, it's funny you say the dog jumping up, because
I do have a lot of dogs, of course at
the BET that are nervous and like cowering in the corner.
And then I have others that are like parcouring off
my chest. I'm like, oh my god, like I'm taking
hit after hit, like they're just so jacked up. Yeah,
And I would love to say, oh, yeah, they just
love me and they're excited, but like I do know
that realistically they're they're nervous.

Speaker 3 (16:20):
Yeah, and a lot of it can be. It's a
bad behavior too. Is one is like you're not gonna
touch me, and I'm going to jump on you. Some
people like you're not going to maul somebody.

Speaker 1 (16:28):
That you respect. Yeah, yeah you're not.

Speaker 3 (16:31):
So you know, a lot of owners are like, oh,
they jump on me only because your dog doesn't respect you.
But it's also too is like a lot of times
do you can ask a dog to do something and
they're like no, and they jump on you because they're
like get away from me, or even twos are anxious
and they don't know, and they're kind of like it's
just a behavior. They're just all over the place. They're
just you know, bouncing from one place to another.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
One thing that I also think is so important. I
wish I would have had this. I'm thinking of one
client particular, and I wish I would have had the term.

Speaker 1 (16:56):
A calm dog is not a sad dog. A cam
dog is a happy dog.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
I have one client that I can remember where she
was always like, I feel so bad like my dog,
Like I'll be working at home and I'll see him
sleeping and he just seems so chill, and like I
just feel bad. Like I think owners think, oh my gosh,
I have to stimulate my dog. I need to be
taken for walks. I need to be running up and
doing this and doing that, and like.

Speaker 3 (17:16):
That's not the case that that can actually make your
dog a dopamine junkie, because if you think about it,
we feel good, like I love to go to the gym,
you know, Like I get to the gym and like
this feels so good and so it makes me want
to go back. Or things that we do, like when
people run and do things. So dogs, yes, they love to.
I mean I could throw a frisbee in a and
you know for my dog all the time, all the time,
and he would constantly go, go, go, go go. But

(17:37):
that's not actually you know, rewarding, but also too maybe
five minutes of playing frisbee now has to be fifteen
right now, My two walks a day are like six
walks a day and miles and all of this stuff.
So you're making your dog really actually be anxious because
they want that dopamine, right, and when you ask him
to be calm, they can't because it doesn't feel good.

Speaker 2 (17:56):
Right, And I think it's like, you know, dogs are
not necessarily like us, like they sleep a lot hours
of the day. With that said, of course you want
to exercise them and give them their their meat, their
basic needs of course, right, and stimulate them mentally. But
like it is okay if your dog takes very long
naps all throughout the day.

Speaker 3 (18:13):
And it's crazy is when I have dogs that you
know that come in that teaching them the off switch is.

Speaker 1 (18:17):
The hardest saying.

Speaker 3 (18:18):
And it's not like I can talk to a child
and be like, hey, we're gonna nap, you know, or
anything like this. But they just literally can't turn off
because owners is where anxiety comes in, is they have
access to anything and everything they want twenty four to seven.
So when you take away that axis or like I
don't know what to do, yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:36):
I can't, like I need to be with you.

Speaker 3 (18:38):
And so what owners don't think about that is we
all love when Fluffy follows us around. It's the cutest
saying because we're like lutally dogg he really loves me.
Which I'm not going to burst people's bubble, like, yes,
the dog wants to be around you because they are
pack animals, but what's happening is you are their job.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
Right.

Speaker 3 (18:53):
So with dogs, when we bring them home is.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
This is like really this is touching on separation anxiety.

Speaker 3 (18:59):
Yeah, operations, and just anxiety in general. Okay, so when
we bring dogs home, is we have to understand that
they are born in a pack. The mother is telling
them when they're going to eat, you know, cleans them
and does everything right. When we bring dogs in, whether
it's a puppy or in an adult dog, is we
bring them in an automatically and instinctually. In a dog,
is what they're looking for is safety, protection and direction

(19:20):
of the pack. If you're not providing that, then the
dogs will swoop in and they will take that role
because that is how instinctually they survive.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
In this world crazy. It is crazy.

Speaker 3 (19:30):
So when they come in and you don't provide that,
then you have dogs that are insecure that are driving
the bus and literally are driving you off cliffs and
you know, or you have a confident dog that comes
in and is like, okay, cool, I love this and
I'm going to do everything that I want. And then,
of course too is when you're trying to ask these
dogs to behave they can't because.

Speaker 1 (19:49):
You've never led them.

Speaker 3 (19:51):
You can't spot clean behaviors. It's a lifestyle that you
live with your dog.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
So let's say a listener is listening right now, they're like, okay,
my dog. We'll start with a dog that has separation anxiety?
What are those sort of like how can an owner
start taking control and setting boundaries?

Speaker 1 (20:17):
Like where do they even begin with that?

Speaker 3 (20:18):
Well, first is if you don't have a crate, you
better get one, like right now, Amazon it, get it
sent you know, Prime and over is the crate right?
So again we think about this is they are pack
animals and a lot of times people think that they
do need to be in the pack, but we have
to teach them to live in a human world, which
is to be okay away from the pack, and that
is one not instinctual to them, so we have to

(20:38):
teach them that. So having a crate, but setting boundaries
is I tell anybody when you bring a dog, I
don't care age. You bring them in and you can
start tethering them. Tethering is one of my favorite things.
This is prerequisites before you come into training with me.
You get a rescue dog. There's a lot of wags
dog through this, even Foster's is you're taking to the dog.

Speaker 1 (20:58):
Comes out of the crate.

Speaker 3 (20:59):
You have them on a leash and you're literally leading
them to where you want them to go, to go potty,
to get water, to whatever. Right, so the dog is
understanding that this is the routine that I do, and
that's something that is every day. And then when you
are lifing, like you are working, or you're making dinner,
or you're playing with your kids, your dogs should be tethered,
meaning you take the leash, you take the loop in

(21:20):
where you would handle and you're attaching it on the
outside of a door and you're closing it to where
they can they can't move, you know what I mean.
So they're literally one the dogs that have separation anxiety,
They're gonna they're gonna sit there, They're gonna pant their name,
won't even lay down because they can't. They are able,
like they have enough leash to lay down where they
can't wander, Like a four foot leash is perfect, so

(21:42):
they can lay down if they want to. They can
kind of move, but you're also in an area where
they can't get into things.

Speaker 1 (21:48):
You know, you can put a bed down if you want.

Speaker 3 (21:50):
To, but I guarantee you that anytime I do this,
dogs aren't gonna lay down, you know, They're not. They're
just gonna be like, what do you mean, I can't
get tea? You're gonna have like a pan like a cacola.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
Oh they do, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (21:58):
And honestly, that is like the first thing they do
is they'll just stand there because they don't know how
to life without you. And that's the first step you
start with setting boundaries, is like I'm eating dinner, I'm
cooking dinner.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
Just hang out.

Speaker 3 (22:09):
And then it's also good for dogs that are very nervous.
Is you get a new rescue dog and they're like,
oh my god, this.

Speaker 1 (22:14):
World, like what am I going to do?

Speaker 3 (22:16):
You tether them and they they feel comfortable because there's
not pressure of you constantly being you know, over them
or hovering that they can be like oh okay, well
somebody walked by and they didn't bother me.

Speaker 1 (22:27):
How long after you start? I have two questions.

Speaker 2 (22:29):
How long after you start tethering do you find that
they start to settle?

Speaker 1 (22:33):
Like most dogs? Would you say? It just appends? You
know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (22:37):
Is?

Speaker 1 (22:37):
I mean it really does.

Speaker 3 (22:38):
It's not like breed specific or whatever, but literally, so
I do tethering, you know, day one and going into it,
day one is to be your hard point. Day two
they start to lay down, but they may not be
fully settled. They'll lay down, but if I move, they
may stand up, you know, so they start. What it's
doing is we can't again, they don't speak English, so
I can't tell the dog just hey, why don't you
sit here? You know I'll go over. And this is

(23:01):
it's teaching them to take their their stress, so that
dogs have a very low stress tolerance. Most of them do,
meaning anything and everything can just amp them up. So
what I'm doing is their mindset is way up here
and they have to learn to self soothe on their
own and be like, oh, oh okay.

Speaker 2 (23:18):
So I have a lot of owners that will say
I put Fluffy in the crate and heat cries and
cries and cries, and they either I think at that
point we'll give up and say, oh, Fluffy can't be
in a crate, or let's say Fluffy is actually trying
to kill himself in the crate.

Speaker 1 (23:31):
What do you say to those people?

Speaker 2 (23:32):
And at what point should people be like, I can't
I need to give up on crate training.

Speaker 3 (23:36):
Well, those are good questions, you know, So is if
fluffy of course, you know when you first get a dog,
create training is you know, a process.

Speaker 1 (23:43):
It's not an event that's with anything?

Speaker 3 (23:45):
Is you know, I think people will just throw the
dog in the crate and then expect it to be okay.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
You know, is a process going into that?

Speaker 3 (23:52):
Is maybe just having a leash, And I recommend when
you're doing leash crate training, is you're using a leash
that you are so that way you can navigate again,
you're steering wheel the dog says, I don't want to
go in. You can kind of use the leash to
put them in. And what you're doing first is just
going in and out of the crate. Don't worry about
leaving your dog in there for a long period of time.
You're just going in and out of the crate, feeding
your dog in the crate. Making it become something that

(24:14):
is valuable to them, is you know, like most dogs are.

Speaker 1 (24:18):
I'm sure you get your labs.

Speaker 3 (24:19):
You got any dog that is just like I love food.
You put it in there and they go in there
and they eat and they come out. So you're just
starting to do very little with the crate and you're
building up on it. But also too is you have
to know that going into the crate, yes, is away
from you. But if your dog can't be okay with
boundaries outside of the crate and you're not establishing those,

(24:41):
your dog's not going to be okay away from you
in a closed in confinement area.

Speaker 1 (24:45):
Right.

Speaker 3 (24:45):
So again, when you're practicing those crate trainings again is
you're you know, you're having them in the crate for
some periods of time and you're gonna let them cry.
And what is really I have a lot of owners
that have kids, and I talk to them about this,
and I'm like, it is nap time, you know what
I mean? And you are you a kid that is
fighting you and you're like, no, that's it, and you're
putting them in there. I was like, do you feel
bad that when your kid is crying? And you're like no,

(25:06):
because it's nap time. Why is it that you feel
so bad that your dog is crying in the cry
It's the same thing, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (25:13):
That they go in.

Speaker 3 (25:14):
And I also think that too, that owners get this,
and a lot of trainers we do say this is
don't go let your dog out when they're crying. Right,
But as you're building this up, if you think about this,
you have to life. So let's say you put your
dog in the crate, but now you have an errand
that you're supposed to run and your dog is crying
but it needs to go potty and you're like, I
can't wait. And so what owners do is they're like,
I can't wait, and they start giving in. Is that

(25:35):
is okay to be like it's having issues, I'm going
to go in nonchalantly, open it up, put it on
a leation and take it out to potty and bring
it back. Is that still is create training? You know,
you can't wait for the peace and quiet because it's
not going to happen in the very beginning stages. So
it is okay to still be like, Okay, you're throwing
a fit, but we have to do this for me
to be able to life. And you can bring them out,

(25:56):
but again it's your practicing and building up.

Speaker 1 (25:59):
Now.

Speaker 3 (25:59):
The dog that absolutely is self destructive, you know, is
breaking teeth, is you know one I do not recommend
that a dog that has separation anxiety do not use
a wire crate at all because they will find it
gives you know it kind of there's different things they
can figure it out how to get out of it.
Is I recommend getting a ruffling crate or an anxiety crate,

(26:20):
a Ruffland. Yeah, Rouffland is a brand. So Ruffland is
like a heavy duty plastic crate. It's what I travel
with in my car. It is a crate that literally
is known for rollover protection, meaning if you were to
get in a wreck or I've even seen it in tornadoes,
the crate is still standing.

Speaker 1 (26:35):
Are you f f land l a f Land? Yes,
those are the best crates.

Speaker 3 (26:40):
You know. Then of course you can go even higher
and get an impact crate that is metal. You can
find these things on Facebook market. But if you have
a dog it's in a wire crate. They can grab
the crate with their teeth and pull in and then
you're gonna get chipped tooth. Now not only is your
dog not crate train, but now you got to go
see doctor Josie because she's got to do a tooth extraction.
Those wire crates are my job security. Yeah, and you
kind of think about it too that you know, now

(27:00):
your dog has hurt themselves in the crate and a
lot of times once they freak out and they keep going,
they're finding any way in every way they can.

Speaker 2 (27:08):
And then of.

Speaker 1 (27:09):
Course don't put betting in there.

Speaker 3 (27:10):
If your dog is got anxieties, don't worry about betting
right now, because then they're gonna turn it into is
what I call it snowstorm.

Speaker 1 (27:16):
You're gonna come in oh.

Speaker 3 (27:17):
Yeah, and then they're gonna ingest that or there's so
many things you know going into it. But again, is
on those things when I think about it is if
you have tried, you have literally done everything you possibly
can you know, worked with a trainer, you have done
all you can with the create and your dog literally
just you know, cannot do it.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
Then I suggest let's talk to our vet.

Speaker 3 (27:37):
You know what I mean is, let's still do the
things that we're doing, but let's maybe add some trazodone
to where maybe the crate now is, because as soon
as they see the crate. I've had dogs that start
panting when they know they're gonna go to the crate.

Speaker 1 (27:49):
So we kind of start breaking that down.

Speaker 3 (27:51):
But if a dog is literally hurting themselves, I don't
want that, you know what I mean, I don't want
to be you know, then people become prisoners of their home.
They're like, I can't leave because my dog can't be
So then maybe let's try some medicine, you know what
I mean, to see if that helps. But then there
is dogs. I can think of a wag dog right
now that cannot can only be created when they know
the owner is home. If not, it has chewed through

(28:12):
a roufflin and I've never seen a dog chew through
I mean, this is a thick plastic Wow. So you know,
long story is, they're like, it does fine outside of
the crate, you know, when I'm not home, and it's.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
Like, okay, kind of is what it is.

Speaker 3 (28:26):
But then it's also too is like okay when the
owner comes home, is now we have those boundaries you know,
going into it. But it's very rare that I don't see.
I have mini dogs that come in that are not
crate trained, and I'm telling you, within three days we've
made the first day, we've made extreme progress.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
Yeah, I would say if in my experience, like ninety
nine percent of them can be create trained, it's a process.
But if they are falling into that one percent where
they're trying to hurt themselves and I don't mean just
crying a little bit, like we're talking like they're breaking
their teeth on the bars, then then you can probably
do something where you can put the more of a
confined space like a laundry room or something along those lines.

Speaker 1 (29:03):
And it depends on the dog.

Speaker 3 (29:04):
Is a destructive hero is it? You know, you just
kind of have to see the scenario part of it,
But honestly, it really is. It's it's the owner that
feels bad about the crate that really is putting a yeah,
you know, a feeling on the crate.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
If you are also.

Speaker 3 (29:16):
Too like it's okay, let's get in the crate and
you're doing all these things, the dog is like, I
don't know, you sound worried.

Speaker 1 (29:21):
I don't want to go in that. I think that
is really important.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
And I am such a baby, like I would literally
rock my for babies to sleep at night and tuck
them into I do.

Speaker 1 (29:31):
I mean, I'm such a baby.

Speaker 2 (29:32):
But like I putting Oakley into the crate, which is
my big german shepherd who went to training with you,
I would be.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
Like, I'm so sorry, Mommy will be back. I swear
I'm coming back for you. And he's like what you know,
like and then he's an anxious dog and then he's nervous.

Speaker 3 (29:45):
So then it's you know, like again we talk about
energy and what is that you know, as I when
I do things with a dog, is I've got a
dog that's super scared right now. And if I were
too coddle and baby and you know, just be very like,
you know, even just with my emotions really internally feeling it,
it's going to make him even more scared. So it's
a lot of times too, is you know, getting him
into the crate is just like it's a crate. And

(30:06):
if you think of it as this is a safety
mechanism for our dogs, yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:12):
You know, I mean that it can literally.

Speaker 3 (30:13):
I mean, I'm sure you've heard of this, and I
think even the last podcast I was here, you had
three dogs get in a fight because they weren't created
and they got in a fight over food, and yeah,
one got I don't know, severely injured severely, you know
what I mean.

Speaker 1 (30:23):
And the crate could definitely.

Speaker 3 (30:25):
Be a life saving mechanism, but it's also two as
part of boundaries in your home.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
And the one thing that you've said to me time
and time again that I think makes me feel a
lot better is when you put your dog in the crate,
that's their opportunity to turn off. They can be like, ah,
I can just let my guard down in my safe space.
I don't have to worry about anything. And that I
think that's so important to allow them that opportunity to
turn off.

Speaker 3 (30:48):
Especially good too, as you think about a lot of
my clients have kids and you're running around with newborn
or toddlers, and you're already just there's so much going on,
and a lot of dogs are like this is overwhelming. Yeah,
I don't want to be here. And then what happens then,
too is you may get your dogs growling at your
kids because they are overwhelmed and the kids are coming
into their space and they don't know what to do.
And you could advocate for your dog and be like, hey,

(31:10):
this is a situation that like kids just came home
for school, it's crazy going on. I can create my
dog and your dog will thank you. Your dog will
be like, thank.

Speaker 1 (31:18):
God, I needed a break.

Speaker 3 (31:19):
You know what I mean, and going into it. But
it's also too as I love using it for training,
is I may go out and do a hard session
with a dog where I know, like today was a
dog that doesn't want to get in the car.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
I mean, he's.

Speaker 3 (31:29):
Panting, and we got through it. But what I did
is I didn't just say the session is ending and
went inside and loved all over him.

Speaker 1 (31:35):
You know what I mean. I did.

Speaker 3 (31:36):
Pat Himan's like, nice job, kid, you know, like you
did it. But then I went in and I put
him in his crate. And what that does is allow
him to think about the whole situations, compress, yeah, you
know what I mean, and really think about it. So
a lot of times whose people get out and they
may have a reactive dog and they're a stressful dog,
and they put him in a situation. But then again,
is they're not letting them just kind of settle and

(31:57):
be like I didn't die, you know, And it's just
letting them have their moment of being being okay and
being alone to process.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
The same with going into the crate.

Speaker 2 (32:07):
And another thing that you've taught me is getting them
out of the crate. And when even when you come
home from work or you come home from unning an
errand not doing the whole song and dance.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
Of oh are you your good boy? Like I know,
we'd jazz because seeing your dogs is the best thing
ever it is.

Speaker 3 (32:23):
But that energy, hell, let's talk about that craziness and
anxiety again. Is the first thing I do in the
morning is I get up and I don't touch a dog,
not even my own. I get up and I make
my coffee and I don't even look at my phone
like I do me Because you have to think about
that too. Is the leader of the pack does everything first.
So the dogs start to learn that doesn't matter if
my alarm goes off, it doesn't matter what's going on,

(32:44):
I will come get you when I come get you.
And now they're not worried, you know, And now they're
just like, oh, you're gonna come get me. And then
coming out of the crate is you don't bust through
that door. Yeah, you're calm and you're looking at me.
It's permission based lifestyle. It is what you do for
your kids, like may I go outside? You know, may
I have a snack? Is what you're asking of your kids?
Is why aren't we asking that of our dogs that

(33:05):
are not humans? Don't understand? And so then when you
come home is don't go straight to your dog because
the garage door. I've had many client as soon as
you open the garage door, the dog's going chaotic, right,
and you're going and being like, oh my god, I
gotta go get to you. First your dog is screaming
at you, come get me, and literally you are running
as fast as you can. Sometimes some people don't even
come home and pee yet they got to go get
their dog.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
Yeah, is no right.

Speaker 3 (33:28):
So it's all about teaching your dog to have this
being able to be okay and be like okay, they'll
tell me what I can do and when I can
do it, and everything is great. I don't have to
make those decisions on my own. And because if you
think about this, if people are like, oh, you're micromanaging dogs, yeah,
I am taking a species, a different species, and bringing
it into a human world. I'm taking a predatorial animal

(33:51):
and bringing it into a human world. So yes, I'm micromanaging,
right because but also to the micromanaging becomes something that
is just fluent every day.

Speaker 1 (33:59):
The dogs cool.

Speaker 3 (34:00):
I opened the crate door. Now I don't have to
have a leash. My dog looks at me andvite them out.
Everything is just free flowing. But here's the thing is,
if your dog is allowed to make all these micro decisions,
what do you think they're going to do when they
see another dog that's a big decision. Yeah, they're going
to react because they get to make all these other decisions. Well,
how about we make these decisions for them? And then
the dog starts to go I kinda don't like that,

(34:21):
and they look up at you and they're like, what
do we do about this? And then you tell them
what you're gonna do. That's how everything starts to come together.
So it's not that spot cleaning. I was talking about
people can't come to me and be like, I want
my dog to be not reactive on the leash that
starts with great training.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
Yeah, you're like, that's just one small piece of the puzzle.
It is interesting. I know we talked about this on
the last episode that you were here, but I sent
Oakley to you for leash reactivity, and I just want
to say to the owners out there, I'm sure you're
listening to this and you're feeling like this seems so
for me, like having to create him, having to do

(34:56):
all of this, I had to change my mindset completely
as an owner. And that's not really something you're taught.
There's no courses in school. I went to that school.
They certainly don't teach you that there, and so it
can really feel like, oh my gosh, how do I
even like start doing this? But once you just start
with it and stay consistent, it makes a massive difference
in watching him sort of decompress and just being like, oh,

(35:18):
mom's got this, Like I know my routine, I know
she's got this. I have boundaries. It has made him
into a different dog.

Speaker 3 (35:25):
Yeah, And then we talk about two is like it
may not fix everything. People, can you know, like, can
you fix my dog? No? Right, I cannot make Fluffy
love your children. I can't make Fluffy be a dog
park dog, you know or whatever. I can't change what
your dog is. But again, is it goes into it
is where Like I mean, if you have a reactive dog,
it doesn't mean that after you've done all these things,
it won't ever react because that's life, you know what

(35:47):
I mean. But here's the thing is I tell people
all this all the time. I say it all the
time on my Instagram. Is you can't control the environment,
but you can control your dog.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (35:57):
What does a day look like like for you and Sailor?
I think people would be interested to know, like what
does that like a typical day, like average day, Like
how much activity are you giving him? How much time
does he spend in his create from sun up to sundown?
What's that look like for you?

Speaker 3 (36:09):
Oh so a day with no dogs, just me and
my dog is the best day ever. But I still
it's the same thing every single day. Is I get
up and I don't mess with him, you know, I
do me and then he's in his create over night,
Yeah overnight one hundred percent, you know, And he's in
his create. He doesn't sleep in bed with me. He
you know, is not on the couch, so he goes
in his crate. I get up and I do my things,
you know what I mean, and then of.

Speaker 1 (36:30):
Course out to potty.

Speaker 3 (36:31):
I also may take him to potty, and I may
put him right back up because maybe I need to
jump in the shower, you know, or do something or whatever.
He doesn't have to be involved with everything that I do.
He's also a dog that somebody recently I had talked to.
Is there some dogs that are like criminals that they
have to have life in prison or they will continue

(36:52):
to commit crimes.

Speaker 1 (36:53):
That is Sailor.

Speaker 3 (36:54):
Sailor is a dog that if I am not you know,
on him, and he is on play or he is
being controlled. If I jump in the shower, I can't
imagine what my house would look like. And he's trained.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
That's a German stare head pointer for you. They're too
smart for their own bed is just you know, he's
a dog on crack. He's ready to go.

Speaker 3 (37:12):
Yeah, but then typically of course too as he goes out,
and then the calmness before a walk is I'm having
my coffee and he's laying on place.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
Is it doesn't place for people listening?

Speaker 2 (37:23):
Are I mean a place can You've taught me can
really be anywhere in your home. But you recommend these
sort of elevated cot like beds.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
You can find them on Chewy.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
Yeah, and you put your dog on place and they're
not allowed to get up until you give them permission to.

Speaker 3 (37:38):
It's like an a visible crate. And that all starts
with tethering. Then you add the bed and so he
knows we come in and just because he went outside
to go potty and now we're in the house, it's
not a free for all. This is my home. I
don't allow craziness in my home. In the home is peaceful.
Outside we play, we you know, we hike, we do
all the things. But inside weird chill. And so he,

(37:58):
you know, he's laying on place, wait for that calmness
to come in. And then when I am ready, then
I invite him to go with me on a walk
and I don't let him run out the door.

Speaker 1 (38:07):
And a huge that's been huge for Oakley and I,
you know, it's all about impulse. His dog's just go go, go,
go go. And so again it's that permission base.

Speaker 3 (38:15):
He knows I put his leash on it, and I go, oh,
I forgot my key or I forgot my phone. He's
still sitting there waiting for me to go on this walk,
but calmly, you know, and then we go out and
then your structured walk is you know your dog is.
Here's another thing about anxiety is if your dog has anxiety,
your dog should not be in front of you on
a walk. Because whatever is in front of the pack
or whoever is leading the pack, is telling you what

(38:37):
is what is happening.

Speaker 1 (38:39):
You know, they're advocating.

Speaker 3 (38:40):
They're saying that, hey, there's a dog and I'm going
to react, or there's something that's scary and I'm going
to do this. So he's following me through this whole walk.
You know, it's that followup process. So again it's everything
is to him is instinctual of I trust you and
I also respect you enough that you're going to lead
me into a path.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
So then you go for your walk. How long is
your walk? Like typically most owners, it can be anything anything.

Speaker 3 (39:01):
It's not about how long it is, It's about what
it is.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
You know.

Speaker 3 (39:05):
It could be I could come out and there could
be have a field and Sailor's a bird dog is
the field?

Speaker 1 (39:10):
I mean, I geese this morning. I'm like, I don't
even know. There's not even a pond, you know what
I mean. I'm like, what is this? And he's out
and you can just see him. He's just trembling.

Speaker 3 (39:16):
He's like So instead of actually going on a long walk,
we worked on focusing with me and walking with me
and going into the noun, doing all the things we
literally didn't.

Speaker 1 (39:25):
Leave in front of my house.

Speaker 2 (39:27):
I have found and I had the misconception with you know,
having Oakley that gosh, we've got to run him to
get so much energy out. But I find that he's
more exhaustive when we do our training walks where I
make him sit and then he works on his recall.
Like making him mentally stimulated makes them just as tired.

Speaker 3 (39:44):
Oh absolutely, because even too is I like to take environment.
So I tell people like again, always training canons, I'll
find something and I'm like, I'm working right now. We're
working through this and going through it. And that is
more on a dog to have to be way up here,
over stimulated, scared, nervous, excited about something and working them
down was a lot better than a long walk, right,
But of course, you know, fish, swim, birds, fly, dogs

(40:05):
walk is you know, it's nice to have a good
you know walk, But it's also too as they don't
need to be walked. So if you think about their migratory animals,
they walk in the morning, they walk in the evening,
and then most of the time during the day they
are sleep.

Speaker 2 (40:15):
Yeah, I think that's so important for owners like that.
Aren't professional dog trainers to say it's okay, like they
can wake up in the morning, do your routine, get
them fed, meet their basic needs, they can go potty,
go for a walk, and then the rest of the
day like it's acceptable for them to be chilling in
their crates.

Speaker 3 (40:31):
And it's super cool too, is I don't have a time,
Like I don't have a set time that my dog walks.
I don't have a set time that my dog eats them.
So even too, as you think about this, as I
have mini owners or many dogs that come in, it's
like four point thirty.

Speaker 1 (40:43):
Oh yeah, start wining and barking.

Speaker 3 (40:45):
Yeah, my dog gets fed random mean, he gets fed,
he gets morning, and he gets evening, right, but it's
never a set time, so he's never worried about, you know,
especially two we just went on vacation and one great training.
I brought my ruffling and it was fantastic. I could
leave him in the hotel room and he's like, this
is a piece of home that I know that I
feel comfortable in. He also knows he gets fed in

(41:06):
that crate. And again I could be out on my
vacation and not having to worry that my dog, you know,
was in their sweating because it was four thirty. No,
he gets fed when he gets fed. And because if
you think about this too, is again a dog is
an animal, and a feral dog or any dog that's
out is they eat when they.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
Can find food.

Speaker 3 (41:25):
Yeah, So what we do as owners, I see it
is we just are so on like I can't we
can't I have to feed my dog at five o'clock
or my dog has to be fed at six o'clock
or all of these things. And so we make our
dogs so anxious because if they don't get that at
the moment, then they don't.

Speaker 1 (41:39):
Know what to do. Right.

Speaker 3 (41:41):
So the routine is something that you do every day,
but it's also too is not that controlled.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
Like it's okay for they need to learn to be adaptable.

Speaker 3 (41:48):
Oh of course, of course, because life happens, right, Dang.

Speaker 2 (41:52):
I feel like listeners listening to this are like, I'm
such a bad owner.

Speaker 1 (41:55):
I know.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
For me, like I was like, I am just missing
the mark and it feels like you're at the box
of Everest.

Speaker 1 (42:00):
But I can assure you that you're not.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
And one thing that I also, I mean, I think
anywhere that you live, finding a trainer is important. We
talked about in our last episode how to find a
good trainer. And then also, your Instagram has so many
I think it's great because you show videos of you
training and why you're doing what you're doing, and so
I learn a lot just from following you on Instagram, honestly,
So I would recommend people do that for sure.

Speaker 1 (42:25):
When do you think? When are you like, And I know.

Speaker 2 (42:28):
We've talked about this before a little bit, but at
what point you're like, Hey, maybe this dog needs to
be on anxiety medication. And I'll say that as a veterinarian,
I get this pet for twenty minutes, I'm trying to
look at their blood work and check out their teeth
and convince the owner that this dog really needs a
dental and then by the way, Fluffy's anxious, and I'm like,
it's a lot.

Speaker 1 (42:47):
So I guess you know.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
I rely heavily on my trainers to let me know
when do you think it's time for them to be
on medications?

Speaker 1 (42:55):
It is, I'm going to tell you it is very rare.

Speaker 3 (42:58):
I'm just sitting here thinking like, when's the last time
that I recommended and I haven't because literally the training
that I that I do, it's more dog psychology. Obedience
doesn't fix anything. It's how you live with your dog,
how your dog sees you. And going into that is
you think about this, is it works if the owner
works it and does the same thing, and it's able,
like you said earlier, is like changing your mindset.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
You know.

Speaker 3 (43:19):
If I have an owner comes, it's like, no, I'm
not going to create and know my life is too hectic.
I'm not taking that dog in right because I'm not
putting the dog through that stress for it to go
home and go back to the way it was living.
Now again, if a dog is you know, comes to
me and again is like breaking out of the crate
and doing that. I may be like, hey, can you
have some trazodone on hand, you know what I mean.

(43:41):
But again it has to be like there's self harming themselves.
But let's talk about genetics. But here's the thing of
this is like I have dogs that come in that
I have to as a trainer, I have to step
back and be like I did the best that I could,
and I did the most that I could with this dog.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
But this dog isn't going to be a dog that
wants to go to loaves that is going to be
comfortable enough.

Speaker 3 (44:03):
And I have to and owners have to realize that
what happens is when we see dogs, we have this
visual of the best dog in the whole world that
loves everybody, loves everything.

Speaker 1 (44:11):
But that's not every dog.

Speaker 3 (44:13):
And as I as a trainer, I have to realize
that I can't change what fluffy is. We can make
it better, we can manage things. But also too is
like if I have to give a dog trazodone to
go to the coffee shop.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
With me, probably not worth it. It's not worth it.

Speaker 3 (44:27):
Yeah, it's not worth it, you know what I mean?
Or if I have to give Now here's the thing.
If the dog is terrified of fireworks, you know what
I mean, like that is something like thunderstorms. You know,
if you have to travel with your dog and it's
like super cars, but you have to do these things
for the well being of your.

Speaker 1 (44:44):
Dog or life.

Speaker 3 (44:46):
That's when I'm like, it is okay, you know what
I mean, Like it is okay to give your dog
something like that, to just be like, hey, let's get
through the holiday, let's get through this traveling. We're moving
across state, you know what I mean, something like that
is fine. But if it's like because of your wan
and your dog to be a certain way and want
it to company you somewhere and it hates it, no.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
Yeah, that's really important to point out as there is
situational anxiety like fireworks and thunderstorms and tras a doone
is a great option for those situations. I think it's
really important for listeners to remember you want to give
that medication two to three hours before.

Speaker 1 (45:20):
The event that makes them anxious.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
I know that can be hard because you feel like
you have to be like a meteorologist watching the radar.
But it if you give it and they're already a
little anxious, it's not going to work. So timing is
really important with that and I will say there are
some dogs that I will put on generalized every day
anxiety medications for whatever reason. Maybe they have worked with
a trainer and they're not making headway, or the trainer

(45:44):
even recommends it, And so I would just say, if
you are going down that path with your pet, make
sure you talk to your veterinarian. I personally would not
want my animals to be on tras adone every single day.
That's one that really kind of like makes them feel
kind of like dopey and kind of zombie out. So
there's other options out there that help take the edge
off but still allow your pet to have their personality

(46:07):
and not to feel like numb almost.

Speaker 3 (46:10):
So when they come into training, I don't want a
dog on trasdone right. I recommend they wean them off.
They have to be weaned right. Rained off is. I
don't want a dog to come in on that. I
want to see the dog at its fullest level of
going into it, because then it's like, I mean, it's
a band aid. So the dog's coming in it's like
I've had three beers, yeah, and it's you know, it
doesn't want to attack me, And I'm like, oh, look,
I cured your dog, no, like I want the dog

(46:31):
to be fully into it. And then like again, going
into it is if you have done everything in your power,
like you literally can be like one hundred percent. My
trainer and I have worked so hard and we are
just this, you know, this dog just does not feel well.
Then I'm thinking genetics probably going into it. Then let's
look at that route. But if you have not even
reached out to a trainer or started, or you're just

(46:52):
like I can't handle this.

Speaker 2 (46:53):
Yeah, first and foremost behavior modifications always, and then medication
as a you know, a supplement to kind of help
with those behavior modifications. If you're not making headway, well, Nikki,
I feel.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
Like, are you overwhelmed?

Speaker 3 (47:09):
I know?

Speaker 1 (47:10):
Wow, No, I love.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
I just think so many people are going to listen
to this episode and be like, oh my god, like
I have so much work to do as an owner,
but it's so important. I think that all of your
points are so valid and my gosh, I think, yeah,
you set the standard for being a pet owner for sure.

Speaker 3 (47:26):
If you just remember, it will always be hard. If
you do easy first, it's easy hard, right. If you
do easy, it'll always be hard. But if you do
the hard stuff first, and you stay consistent and you
just can repetition right, then it will become easy. It
will become a lifestyle that you can enjoy your life totally.

Speaker 2 (47:43):
All right, guys, we're gonna take a quick break and
we'll come back for paw and Order. On this week's
pawn Order, I am going to tell you three things
where as a veterinarian, I would not do with my
own animals. Number one, I would never express my dog's

(48:07):
anal glands. Or most of you are probably having your
groomors express your dog's anal glands. I hope I would
not have my dog's anal glands expressed unless they absolutely
need it.

Speaker 1 (48:18):
Anal glans are weird. People always like, what are these
things into? The most god awful smell.

Speaker 2 (48:23):
It's life smell that you will never forget you. It's
just one drop on the clothes. They're ruined, throw them away,
don't even watch them, especially.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
In the face right now. Oh yeah, yep.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
If you guys haven't heard that episode, I don't even
know what episode it is. I've tried to block it
out of my memory, but I got anal glanded in
the face, the mouth, the eyes say, or it was
awful anyways, anal glands. People ask me about them all
the time. I don't know why dogs have them. They
are probably what we call a vestigial structure, meaning at
some point they served a purpose.

Speaker 1 (48:53):
At this point in time, they do not.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
Most dogs are able to express their anal glands on
their own when they're going to the bathroom. If they can't,
then you will see them scooting their butt along the ground.
They'll be licking back there a whole bunch, or like
Nikki said, you will smell the smell of all smells,
in which case I say, yes, get them expressed. But
if they're not doing any of that, let them do
it on their own, because once you start, you might have.

Speaker 1 (49:16):
To keep doing it. Oh that's good to know. And
if you have a dog.

Speaker 2 (49:19):
That really needs them express, like we're talking like every
month or so every couple of weeks, it may be
something in the food. It could be like a food allergy.
There's different supplements you can try to make sure you
ask your veterinarian about that.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
Yeah, I've heard that little dogs are more prone to
having issues. That's what I've heard. I don't know if
that's true.

Speaker 3 (49:39):
I don't know, because I say, like, big dogs can
express them easier if they bark or that, but little dogs,
I feel like they that's just what I've heard.

Speaker 1 (49:47):
I don't know it's true. I feel like it's fifty fit.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
I'm not really sure you would hope it's the big
dogs because they've got the little dogs.

Speaker 1 (49:54):
I'm like, I am so sorry I have to do
this to you. I'm sure it's hard to find.

Speaker 2 (49:58):
I did have an owner the other day who was like,
can I watch you do this? And I'm like, I mean,
come on, And actually it was Mackenzie Porter's husband. Sorry
to call you out, Jake, but he's like, I kind
of want to learn, like maybe I could do this
at home. I'm like, yeah, come and watch.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
And then afterwards he was like, I will never do
that ever, Like I didn't think, so okay. Number two.

Speaker 2 (50:17):
I would never feed my dogs together without supervising them.
I had a client the other day who has two dogs.
They have never gotten in a fight. They get along amazingly.
She puts both bowls down in the kitchen, walks into
the other room is on the other side.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
Of the house.

Speaker 2 (50:33):
Here's Nicki's shaking her head She's like, no, here's I
don't even know what she heard, but she went running
in the other room. The big dog has the little
dog pinned on the floor and they are fighting over
the food.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
Bols great cat dogs in the cree. Nicky's going into
the grave, going great.

Speaker 3 (50:52):
Yes, yes, that is just because I always fool this.
They say, my dog is never. That's cool, but guess
what they can and they will. So if you ever
say my dog is never, they will never like they
never before.

Speaker 2 (51:04):
Yeah, right, exactly, they will never like they've never. I
love that never before. You need to knock on wood. Yes,
if you're not going to feed your dogs in the crate,
at least wait the five minutes until they finish their
meal to keep an eye on them. Keep those bulls
like at least on the opposite side of room, of
the room, because at the end of the day, they
are animals. They are unpredictable, and food is one of

(51:24):
the biggest resources in their life. And they can get
they can do things that they've never done before.

Speaker 1 (51:30):
And then pick those bulls up. Yeah, don't leave them.

Speaker 3 (51:32):
Don't let your other dog go lick the other dog's bawl.
As soon as they're done, pick them up, wash them,
put them on your counter, because even if it's empty,
they know that's where it comes from.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
And I'm seeing dogs guard an empty bowl. Yeah, that's
a really good point. Okay.

Speaker 2 (51:43):
Number three, I would not perform a dental on my
pet under sedation rather than anesesia. There is a huge
marketing push right now for anisiesia free dentals and our pets,
and I'm the first like, I get it.

Speaker 1 (51:59):
I understand wanting to avoid anesthesia at all.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
Costs, but the reality is there is still some risk
involved with sedation, and honestly, you are better off just
brushing them at home. These sedation so anesesia free dentals,
they really give you a false sense of security. Yes,
your pet may have like clean teeth, they might look
clean after, but that doesn't mean that they necessarily have
a healthy mouth. They're only able to clean the visible surfaces,

(52:24):
and sixty to seventy percent of dental disease in our
pets is below the gum line. I can't tell you
how many times I'll look in a pet's mouth and think, oh, yeah,
they just need a cleaning, and then I take an
X ray, which is what we do. When they're under anesesia,
we take dental X rays and they have a massive
abscess around.

Speaker 1 (52:41):
One of their tooths. The difference between sedation and anesesia.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
Sedation they're giving an injectible medication that's just calming the pet.
Pet is still awake, can still feel pain, which by
like us.

Speaker 3 (52:52):
Going to the dentists and still getting drilled on.

Speaker 1 (52:55):
Exactly, yep, exactly.

Speaker 2 (52:57):
Also, they're not able to do all the things that
we can do when they're under an athesia. So under
an asesia, it's like you've got a breathing tube and
you're completely asleep. They are not conscious, and we're able
to really get in there and take X rays of
their teeth. They can scale the inside of their teeth,
probe everything.

Speaker 1 (53:13):
So sedation dentals is just cleaning.

Speaker 2 (53:18):
It is not like a full oral treatment and you're
gonna spend a lot of money. Yes, you're gonna avoid anesthesia,
but it's not overall what's best for your animal.

Speaker 1 (53:28):
I didn't know that. I didn't even know that was
a thing.

Speaker 3 (53:30):
I thought, if you had to do any procedure, put
your dog under.

Speaker 2 (53:33):
Yeah, yeah, definitely, I mean there it's there's a big
push right now because people don't want to put their
dogs under an athesia, which I can understand the concern,
albeit the likelihood of anything happening is highly highly unlikely.
So yeah, I think honestly, I feel like pet parents
are getting taken advantage of because they are nervous.

Speaker 3 (53:55):
I'm sure, I'm sure we'll let's like an old dog
and it needs just a cleaning or anything like that.
That would be a better route, right because it's harder
for an older dog to go under anesthesia.

Speaker 1 (54:03):
Or still, it doesn't.

Speaker 3 (54:04):
Really that's not really going to do the benefit that
you're talking.

Speaker 1 (54:07):
It would not even I wouldn't even do this edation.
I would.

Speaker 2 (54:09):
I would do the anesesia. I mean, old dog. An
old dog is not a disease. Age is just a number.
So as long as their kidneys and their liver and
everything's functioning, Okay, I anesthetize old dogs. I setitis and
esthetize a seventeen year old dog the other day and
did it.

Speaker 1 (54:24):
Dental on. It did amazing, popped right up, did better
than the three year old dog.

Speaker 3 (54:27):
So oh really that is yeah, it is something because
anytime we know, you guys know that I was a
sixteen year old border college. Yeah, you know, they're talking
about any kind of procedure we have to put her under,
and I'm like, no, no, she's not coming back.

Speaker 1 (54:38):
I know it is.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
I mean, it's us being really afraid. But if you
think about it, like ninety percent of well I won't
say ninety, but a high percent of humans that are
going under anesthesia for procedures are almost always the elderly.
You know, they're they're getting tons of procedures done and
they're going under anesthesia. So just because they're older does
not mean that their risk under anesthesia is.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
That much greater. It's good to know. Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
So yeah, that's my tea for the day. Thank you
guys for listening. As always, Nikki, where can the listeners
find you?

Speaker 3 (55:08):
If you go on Instagram you can find me under
always Training Knines and you give me a follow you
can see my stories.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
And I also want to let you guys know.

Speaker 3 (55:15):
Shoot me a DM if you have questions.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
Let me know.

Speaker 3 (55:19):
I love to talk to people. You don't have to
actually be a client. Is you shoot me a question
and I'll talk dog to you all day long. I'm
here to help you guys, and again is you'll get
to see. It's free information. I start with create training,
so anytime I get a new dog in, you get
to see from start to finish what that looks like.
So if you've got a dog and you see me
with a new dog, you're doing the same thing that
I am doing. And then if you have trouble, shoot

(55:40):
me a DM and we can even two and even
if you're not in this state, I do Zoom consultations
where I can work with you and your dog over Zoom.
It's not great because of course it's not hand on,
but we can definitely get some things going on that
as well.

Speaker 1 (55:52):
That's awesome.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
Well, thank you for coming in. I I mean, I
feel like we talked about you on this podcast. We
just had Jason Tartik on. He's like Nicki's the best.
You work with all the wags dogs so and I
know the listeners have loved learning from you as well.

Speaker 1 (56:04):
So thank you for coming. Well, thank you for having
me back.

Speaker 2 (56:06):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (56:06):
We're welcome. We'll probably see you season four.

Speaker 2 (56:10):
And then, as always, guys, you can find me at
doctor Josivett on Instagram and TikTok.

Speaker 1 (56:15):
Although my tiktoks aren't really that great, but.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
Find me on Instagram, send me your messages DMS, let
me know what you thought of today's episode, and please
be sure to subscribe. We are on YouTube so you
can watch the episodes there and then like, rate review
on any platform where you get your podcasts, and we'll
see you next week