June 8, 2022 • 32 mins
What does it mean to be Indifferent, and do you even care?
Of course you do. You were built and brought here to care. But sometimes, we all slip into a state of indifference, whether we realize it or not. Today Julie shares a personal story that, 30 years later, led her to a state of indifference and how she went from feeling sabotaged from the event to feeling nothing along the way.
Indifference is different from a state of serenity. It creates an opening for pain by disregarding compassion and humanity. There are nuances in the frequency of indifference that, once acknowledged and activated, can lead to a high spiritual lesson of accountability. Today's conversation will help you discern which side of the ego your indifference lands on.
Earth School is hard, without meaningful engagement with the Other Side.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Insider's Guide to the Other Side, a production
of My Heart Radio. Hi, y'all, I'm Julie. Hi there,
I'm Brenda. Welcome to Insider's Guide to the Other Side. Now,
y'all need to know that we are obsessed with everything
on the other side. Yes we are, because once you
(00:22):
learn to navigate the energetic, or to some the invisible world,
life is going to be more fun and much more serene. Heck,
yes it can, because, let's be honest, Brian, earth school
is hard. In fact, you taught me that let's crush
earth School together. Well, hello, my wishy to. How in
(00:46):
the world are you? I'm doing great, my health, how
are you? You know? Unlike the title of this episode,
I'm actually doing pretty good. I am not indifferent good
at the moment, I'm so glad, but I'm him pretty good.
We just rolled in back into Arkansas, so it's like,
where in the world is your elf? Should be a
(01:07):
new card game. I like it. I like it. Say
you're in back at the homestead. Back at the Homestead. Yeah,
we're here, and today we're talking about something people don't
often talk about. Right, we are, and it's it's here's
what's funny. Um, I would never consider myself and a
(01:28):
in a different person and in fact, the reason I
actually wanted. Right, we can all laugh at that, but
I learned from our pre talk because I mean, as
everybody knows, you and I chat, we tell stories. I
really wish sometimes we could just record when we're just
chit chatting around because it's they it's they are really
amazing conversations. Um. And I remember when we were talking
(01:52):
about this, I said, I just had a new experience
and I'm feeling something different. You're like what my elf
and I go in different friends and I'm not familiar
with in difference And there apparently are two sides to indifference. Yeah,
it's an interesting position to land, and especially for someone
(02:12):
like you who's has so much passion for life. Right,
I'm exhausting even to myself. Yeah, And and it's part
it's just part of the many parts that make you
so enchanting to be with, because because your passion is contagious. Right, Yeah,
let's do that. That could be. Yeah, let's do a podcast.
(02:36):
You want to you want to go down the street
to get some gas. I know, I know it's going
to be awesome and I typically find myself to be
a relatively optimistic person. I mean, I have things that
I'm not necessarily optimistic about. But to experience and to
feel indifference was new to me. So I have a story,
and then dumont if I tell my story, and then
(02:57):
were how to go back? We want to know how
you got too indifferent? How I got to be in different? Right?
You're doing doing different? It's so weird. Um, So I'll
go ahead and get started. It's um, it's a little
bit of a sad story. Actually, back in nineteen nineteen
(03:17):
d and story we talked about this is stupid, this
is the super origin. But you know, back in the
early nineties, actually it was. It's when I met Susanne
and I was three years old, turning baby, I know, right,
baby lesbian by the way, wearing um, I wore penny
(03:40):
loafers with holes in the bottom, jean shorts um, a
polo button down, and bright red lipstick in my semi
permed hair. I mean it was I was quite a backage.
That's a commitment, right, You're not indifferent about that? No? No,
And I remember Suzanne said why And I had a
duct tape on the out of my shoes because why
(04:01):
do you have duck tape on the bottom of shoes?
I go because the pavement is hot, and she goes,
you know, you can get those resold, like you can.
Keep in mind, is a MoMA Oklahoma talking. I had
no idea. It was hillbilly Julie. It was long before
Elf came around. It was hillbilly. God bless Susanne. God
bless her for actually picking me, because I'm not sure
(04:24):
I would have um. And she said, well, you know,
you get that. You know we can take care of that,
take care of that. Waking a new salt and she's like, well,
why why didn't just get a new pair of shoes. Listen,
I have a wide foot with a high arch. There
shoes are not fun for me. So if I find
something that fits, even if I have to put duck
tape on it, I'm gonna wear them. So anyway, this
is that this is the season of the story. By
(04:46):
the way, Okay, I wish I still had those shoes,
but Suzanne, she sneaked one night and threw them away
and it really pissed me off. Anyway, so around this
time of my duck tape on the bottom of my
penny loafers. Um, I didn't have to ask. Did you
actually put pennies in your penny loafers? No, I did
(05:08):
not know, but that was a thing though I did not.
But speaking of currency, because you know how I liked
to ping pong around. Um right, I just took Sticky
out on a walk and I found a twenty dollar bill.
I love that. So I can have put lots of
pennies and lots of shoes so all of but it's
(05:31):
really I have fewer shoes than twenty But anyway, um,
so that is what I look like. And I better
have a photograph that we could put up if we
want to play with. And there was a friend of
mine that I grew up with. We' only her name
out of it. But there was a friend of mine
that I grew up with, not Cubby by the way,
um that was generously throw around random. Oh my god, seriously,
(05:55):
it's like it Cubby makes her way into every episode
that it was not kind of it was a It
was a different friend of mine that was coming to
Dallas and wanted a place to stay, and she's like,
do you mind if I stay? I'm like sure. Now,
this was the first place Susan and I lived in together.
It was like a little, you know, kind of condo
apartment thing by the gallerya Mall, which Susan called the
(06:18):
Goneria Mall in Dallas. Um, oh my god. I lived
less than a mile from there. That's where we were.
That's right off the Toad Road. Susan held the Toll Road,
the Noad Road, so everything's off the tond Yeah, so
it was gallerya Mall. It was early, I mean it
was still and so this friend came to visit, and
(06:39):
you know, I was still pretty much in the closet
with people that I grew up with. You know, being
gay in especially from Oklahoma, living in Texas is not
exactly a welcome news to people. A lot of judgment,
a lot of issues. Right. So this is, you know,
my first this is a story really my first coming out,
not my second one with taking pictures ago. This is
(07:00):
actually my first coming out. So, um, she came to
stay with us. She got in kind of um, I
don't know, like late, and it was a one bedroom place.
She stayed downstairs on the sofa, and then Susanne and
I went to work and we're like, you're welcome to
use our bathroom is the only one that had a
shower in it, and so um. Apparently she realized there
was one bed um and she was leaving like it
(07:24):
was a quick kind of turnaround thing. She left, and
the day after she left, the number of phone calls
that I got from people saying, hey, reagor we're hurt,
we heard you're gay. So she effectively left that day
and burned up the phone lines of Southwestern Bell to
tell everybody gossipy Reader's gay. Yeah right, So I was
(07:52):
unto pleased. In fact, I was hurt and I was embarrassed.
I was all of these things because it was my
news right to share it was an anybody else's and
to do it in my own time and in my
own way. Now, my mother knew obviously at that time,
and that was fine, but other people didn't. And I
was trying to I was figuring out a I was
trying on this new body body suit, you know. I
(08:14):
was like I had a new outfit on, trying to
figure it out, trying to get comfortable in it before
I go out and have conversations. I never had an
issue with new people that I met, No shame, no nothing.
It's like oh yeah, it's my girlfriend at the Times's
and blah blah blah. But what do you deal with
your past in such a tectonic shift and who you
(08:35):
thought you were versus who you are? Um is uh
is a whole other world, right and it and for
you to lose control of that is harming. Yes, And
that's what it felt like. I mean, I you know,
you hear the same thing. I don't stab me in
(08:57):
the back. I felt I was stabbed all over, is
what it felt like. And it felt like my world
was collapsing. Um. I got calls from our old family hairdresser,
I got calls from my mother's friends and were they
were they calling out like out of a curiosity or
calling out of support any of them? It was a
(09:19):
bit of both. I think curiosity was more than anything.
You know. Luckily, at to that point in my life
felt like I had developed some fairly you know, healthy,
strong enough relationships that you know, I was only there
was rejection that had happened during this time. Um. Yeah,
sadly by my aunt, but that's a whole not my
crazy aunt Marlene on my mom's side. It was my
(09:43):
uncle's wife at the time. Uh. And um, so rejection
was certainly a part of what it was like, but
just having to be it's out of the blue, right,
that was the It was a surprise. I didn't it
was an absolute sabotage. And so on the no of sabotage.
Why don't we take a quick break and we'll come
back and talk about what happened next. Okay, we'll be
(10:06):
right back, and we are back at the end. We're back,
Like I just say thank you, But you know, I
just wanted I just look, I know that you are
(10:27):
fine today, and you know it's a story from the past.
But what makes me so it just makes me very
sad for you to have to deal with that. But
it's so you know, people do this every day, but
she really made it your personal life and how you
move through this world. She made it about her, like
(10:48):
I have scoop, right, I have I have social currency.
This is going to up my street cred and and
used that for her own benefit. It wasn't even about Hey,
I found this out about our friend, and I'm curious,
I'm concerned, I'm supportive. I wanted you to know, like,
it's not even anything about that. It was it was
(11:09):
about her, like otherway, she would have had to call
so many people, right, she didn't call me, by the way,
in her uh and in her in her dialing happiness,
she which that's frankly who you should call. I will
tell you though, before we move any further. It was
such a valuable lesson to where I am a hell
of a secret keeper. If somebody, if there's something going on,
(11:32):
I am all about not my news, Yeah it is
not my news. Will I gossip about stuff, yeah, I'm human,
but I will never break news for somebody. I will
never do that because I know exactly what that feels like,
which is again why I'm really not you know, life
experiences can certainly mold who we are obviously, um and UM.
(11:53):
You know. One of the reasons that I am not
an aggressive because I'm really not aggressive. I talk aggressive,
but I'm not physically aggressive because I dealt with being
had the ship beat out of me as a kid.
So it's like, I know, I'm not any of those things.
So there is a gratefulness to that event, to that
to this moment that we're talking about because of it
did make me a better person and I and I
(12:13):
got that message pretty quick. So that's the good news
of it. The bad news is it absolutely utterly broke
my heart and it was scary as fuck. That is
scary when somebody calls you and says I heard you're gay,
and what do you do? I mean? Uh? Um, So
that was let's um, let's fast forward a little bit.
(12:35):
Let's fast forward to uh about three weeks ago. Okay, excellent.
So this person, um, what is our name for people?
Telling Sally? We're gonna say Sally, and it makes me
laugh because I see you're Sally. So let's say Sally.
So Sally had reached out and I was asking me
(12:56):
about crystals. I had seen her, Um, she actually was
had a nice relationship with my mother. She showed up
to her service, you know, eleven years ago. I have
seen her since we've been here. I had decided to
be decent, you know, um like be kind, I guess
kind slash decent um. But she had reached out and
(13:20):
was asking me for some help with some crystals for
her boys, who had a few, you know, some struggles
that they were dealing with. And she was texting me,
and so I decided that I would just call her back.
So we get on the phone and she's telling me
about her kids. Were having this really great conversation about crystals,
and then she made a comment about being at my
(13:41):
mother's service, and she goes, even though you were mad
at me, it was her comment. And I said, oh right,
and I said, would you like to know why? So
I offered do you want to know? Like again, that's
a Brenda that's a Brenda special, which is to ask
for permission. Right, You're welcome, thank you. Um. So the
(14:05):
Brenda special was, I said, well, would you like to
know why? And she said, well yeah, and I and
I told her, I'm like, you outed me to everybody,
and she goes, oh, no, I knew it had to
do with that trip. I didn't know what it was.
I said, really, he didn't know, and it was. It
was a fine conversation, by the way. You know, she
(14:27):
was very apologetic and I appreciated the apology. I absolutely
accepted it. She tried to explain herself, which is fine.
Um Later even came back and asked if she could
tell the story to her son's to teach her sons
a lesson. Like she accepted it. She accepted her role.
I mean, by the way, a plus for how she
handled the the recent conversation. Um, she really didn't know,
(14:55):
you know, I I th sa as soon as she's twenty,
she's in the range of when I happened as well.
So just an immature twenty three, right, I mean. And
I even gave her that out. I said, listen, we
were young. I said, it's it's still not okay. You
should have known better, you know, but I'll write off
the age. Um, but still it's not okay kind of thing.
(15:17):
And uh so then, so how the indifference came about was,
of course, now Cubby comes into play, of course, and
uh because she always comes into play. I just hang
up the phone with her ten minutes before we got on,
so she always comes into play. And uh so I
told Cubby what happened. And again, this whole conversation, the
(15:38):
whole event that happened was not planned. Um, it was
probably what is that thirty years to thirty years a
little late. And I even said that on when the conversation,
I said, I will actually own the fact that I
did not speak to you after that, because I could
have done that. You know, both of us could have
done some different things. There's no question. So I tell
(15:59):
Cubby this story and shes oh wow, She's like, well read,
or how do you feel? Like, how how do you
feel about this? And I sat there and I kind
of like, hmm, how do I feel? And I go,
this is a very foreign feeling to me. She was
what do you mean? She was, are you relieved? She
started giving me a list adjectives right, like, how do
you feel? These are emotions not adjectives and emotions okay,
(16:24):
she was probably expecting me to actually use some adjectives,
by the way, um, and and I I go, I
this one's new to me. And I said I think
I need to pick in different and she's, well, what
do you mean? And she do not feel better? And
I said, no, you don't feel worse. I said, no,
I don't feel better. I don't feel worse. I'm glad
(16:46):
we had the conversation. But in terms of because I
checked my body right again, another Brendow special, these things happen,
and I do a check head to toe? What do
I feel? Do I feel any different anywhere in my body?
How does my heart feel? How does my gut feel?
How does my back feel? How do my knees feel?
How do my ankles feel? I'm going through the whole
(17:08):
thing about what what sign am I going to get? What? What? What?
What is my body telling me? How? What information is
available to me? Here? Exactly right? What information is available
to me? I felt no different. I didn't feel heavier.
I didn't feel lighter, I didn't feel more flexible. I
didn't feel stiffer. I didn't feel hot. I didn't feel cold.
I mean that like this, I kept going through those,
(17:31):
and poor Gubby has to listen to me go through it.
While I don't feel hot, it don't feel cold. I
don't feel that, you know. I was like, what are
you doing? And I landed at this place of I
go I think, I feel indifferent. This is foreign. I
don't know what to do with this, because I normally
would be like, oh, it was great, we're gonna go
(17:51):
have dinner. No, it wasn't that, or it wasn't a
I never want to speak to that bit you get Nope,
when any of that, it was this kind of you know,
I would have been I'm fine to see her, I'm fine.
Not I mean, it's just indifference. So and then you
told it, go ahead, please tell me just to say
(18:11):
it's like a profound neutral within you like. It doesn't
have any momentum, it doesn't have any stickiness to hold
you back. It's just like it is what it is.
This profound neutrality more of an accurate word for it.
This is another word for it. It's another word for like.
But it just felt indifferent to me um. And again
I could be using the word incorrectly, and that's always fair,
(18:32):
but it's one I'm very unfamiliar with. Yeah, like, I'm
unfamiliar with being a gymnast that is usually has unfamiliar
I am with the word in different. I'm unfamiliar with
being a supermodel, as I'm unfamiliar with the word of different, excellent, excellent.
And again, you know, we opened with this isn't a
(18:52):
word that people talk about very much because it's it's
just not used very often because usually we are talking
about things either we're be passionate about in a positive
way or in a negative way. We're not charged words
that I have charged. This word doesn't have charged to
it until you told me it did well it can
and we're going to talk about that when we come
(19:13):
back from this break. English lesson lesson from the Wise
Witch Chatty, which anyhow, and we are back from the
heavy break and I was kidding. I was just saying
(19:35):
on break, it's like I hit the like best friend
lotto with heaven. I could not be happier in the world.
It's O great, It's O great. Um. So, when you know,
when we were talking about indifference in how like it
doesn't have any charge and there's the other side, right,
because everything has a different potentially potentiality to it. A
(19:58):
different interpretation is that when people think about hatred, they
think about you know, being like they did. Like when
when you're able to think or do or speak harm
(20:21):
to someone with intention, like you have to be passionately
engaged with them, right, that's what they think. But there
is an element that the research would indicate you that
you actually end up being indifferent to them because there
(20:41):
is a part of the brain that says your pain
is nothing to me, right, So that is the flip
side of indifference where it's not a profound neutrality, it
creates an opening for to create pain. That is, everybody
(21:02):
can go back and listen to Magical douche Bag. Because
I believe that I was in different that definition of
indifferent with that conversation, say more about that, Um, I
could whichever direction he wanted to go. I could really
care less, and I was more than happy to reign
(21:23):
terror on him by being so calm because I didn't care. Yeah,
I mean, it wasn't different in that way. Yeah, And
so I think it's important to think about that, because, like,
there is a profound neutrality that is serenity that says
it is what it is. I'm in acceptance with things
I can't change the control. Right that that is literally
(21:45):
part of the serenity prayer, right, Um. And in that
way that that can be an indifference, that is choosing
both serenity insanity. And then there is the shadow side
of surendity of of indifference that says, I don't care you.
(22:06):
I am indifferent to your happiness, to your wellness, to
your pain, to your suffering. You don't matter to me
in any way, shape or form, right, which is the
opposite of compassion and empathy and these things that fuel
our humanity. Right. That is not the definition of a
(22:28):
difference that I experienced. I am so glad though, to
understand that, because now I can actually pinpoint those different
times that I actually probably wasn't different in that way,
which again goes back to the magical douche bag. It's
like I didn't give a shit about his pain. I
mean I really didn't. I was just like, go ahead,
(22:48):
like spin yourself up, knock yourself out. You're not going
to pick you up. I don't. I don't care. Yeah,
that's not how I feel about this other one. Right
and again, I think these are distinctions, right, these are is.
This is a very esoteric in a way that people
may or may not care, but it's also a very
(23:10):
nuanced way to live. And you know, to move through
life with these distinctions, to know which frequency am I activating?
Which side am I landing on? With consciousness and discernment,
there's a huge accountability on a soul level. Right and again,
if you don't know to look for the shadow side
(23:31):
of it, when you don't know to look, like where
where am I landing in this? Where do I choose
to activate? I can feel it, but I don't have
to activate it within me. I don't have to voice it,
I don't have to act upon it. Um this is
this is a very high spiritual lesson, right. So that's
that's why I thought it was interesting. Oh, I love that.
I I think it was I listen, let's be honest.
(23:52):
I love to bring this stuff up because you'll always
teach me something and it's just so valuable. And you know,
we share these stories. We've said a hundred times, but
we share these stories. I mean, I'll be a very
personal stories because there is somebody out there that has
experienced something similar and they can at least put a
name to it and they can think through it. And
(24:13):
the magic of this is the paying attention, right, It's
at being present and paying attention. And I like when
I say, you know, so called Sally uh scs so
called Sally, um that I felt and you know that
she got an A plus plus for how she handled
(24:35):
the whole conversation. I would give myself a solid ay
for paying attention, you know. And um, I always strive
to have that high mark in life now because paying attention,
like I want to learn my stuff. I want to
know where I'm going. Um, I want to understand it
so when it happens again, if it happens again, I
(24:57):
know what it is. I want to identify and I
can again you're looking for that information in your algorithm
of life that says, well, can I pull from you know?
And when you live with consciousness, in that level of awareness,
you kind of do you know what in the business world, right,
they call a hotwash? Right then? What what? What? What
do we love? What do we hate? What we do differently?
(25:17):
How can we improve it? What we never do again? Like,
but when you live with that level of accountability, you're
always improving your own algorithm. And um, and again you
have to pay attention. And you know, all the stories
we share is you know, in more in the archetypal version,
like we know someone has at least one person out
there has this thing going on in their world. Like
(25:37):
we just assume, you know, the all is in the
small and the small is in the all. So listen
to you, like you are spouting off coffee cups like
crazy right now, fantastic, the algorithm of life all that,
this is the whole coffee cup that's me right, or
teacup because neither one of those coffees that was weird
(26:03):
because we don't use them. That's true, that's true. They're
good serving size for sugar free pudding. So somebody maybe
has done that these coffee cups for that. Um, you
know I UM. I also think what's really important is
to not only understand, like in the moment, right, like
(26:23):
those emotions and what we're dealing with in the light,
the shadow, all of that of it, but also what
could have been done different from my side, because I'm
always into keeping my side of the street clean best
I can. I have no power and influence over anybody
else's side of the street, but only my own. And
if I could go back, I would have had the
(26:44):
courage to pick up the phone. I didn't have courage
at that time. I was a cowardly lion at the moment.
I would say, you are under sabotaged, right, you are
under attack. That's what it felt. It did, Yeah, and
it's really hard to take the high road when you
are you know, your whole nervous system thinks you are
in five fight. You know your your life is at
risk because socially, that's what it felt like, like wait
(27:06):
very much did Yeah? So because you were sabotaged. So
now weeks later, maybe months later, you could have maybe
maybe not let thirty years go by. Maybe it's what
my overall messages. Maybe it's not the next day, but
I'm telling you, when you get a call from your
childhood hairdresser, named until we usta hooden pile. That's the name,
by the way. Now we will ever be able to
spell it or remember it, but it is the wildest
(27:27):
sassinating I've ever met. But of cow Westa. When you
get a call from your high school, right, you get
a call like I heard your dad, I'm like, gosh, ship, right,
it's that ship. I didn't get to sit down with
her hitting up, by the way, absolutely loved her. She
was a big part of her life. Small town right,
this is doesn't matter how what he does, just a
(27:49):
big you know, do cares it's mom Oklahoma, um, big
part of our life and not being that being stripped
away of me being able to sit with her and
tell her here's what's going on. Yeah, you know, I
didn't get that chance. It's I didn't get it and
(28:10):
uh and that was very upseting to me. That's very
much in that kind of Buddhist I think, um way
of you know, theft, stealing from them is actually stealing
someone's moment, not actually stealing somebody's watch, right, not the
material objects, you know, it's the more important things, like
taking somebody's a moment, and she took a lot of
(28:30):
moments from me m a lot. So I just think
it's important to tell these stories people to think about.
And few hold information of somebody like this, you know,
um thinks stop dropping a roll before you pick up
the phone and start calling or texting or getting on
social media out somebody or whatever it may be, you know. Um.
(28:52):
And the other thing is, I think when we're dealing
with other people so often like why would they do that? Right,
there's your mind just spends why why would they do that?
Why would they do that to me? Why would they
do Like her mind literally wants to know, and there
are things that are unknowable, like we don't know. I mean,
from the sounds of it, she wasn't even aware, probably
(29:13):
not that she didn't even understand that that wasn't hers
to share. We do so many things unconsciously, right, and
she's just like I got gossip, you know, And that's
that says more about her, you know, who she is
in the world than anything else, um, you know. And
so you just have to go, you know what, they
made that choice. I don't have to understand it because
(29:36):
it's not my choice. Doesn't matter, right my and and
some things you're never gonna you're just never gonna understand
because you're not them. You didn't you didn't make that choice.
You couldn't even imagine making that choice. So I think
that's a really important step to release you from even
the idea that she did that to you, however many
people she called, She did that to you, how many times.
(29:57):
But you could have lived a life completely damaged by that,
by going over and over and over in your head.
And it seems to me like you just stepped away
from that after you dealt with everyone, and just forward,
like you didn't let it re traumatize you over and
over again. And I think I stepped away, absolutely right,
That's exactly what I did. And so I think one way,
when if you find yourself stuck in a situation where
(30:18):
someone truly victimized you in this way, you know that
you have to just go you know what, I don't.
It's not my job to understand they're crazy or their
cruelty or their unconsciousness, whatever it was, and just give
yourself permission to move forward with your life. Yeah, And
I will say, thirty years later, yes, I do not
believe that's who she is anymore. So I will absolutely
give her that. I will give her. I gave her
(30:39):
the A plus plus on it. That's um and uh
and I mean really high marks. So there's that. That's beautiful.
That's all and then truly all you can hope for.
That's amazing. Yeah, well, my owl, thank you for another
interesting school lesson. So it's like bombarded with them. For
the love of God, it's like it's always something in
(31:01):
my world, which doesn't mean with you po just living living,
that's right. Thank you and thanks for listening everybody, and
remember her school is hard without the other side. By y'all.
(31:22):
Thank you for joining us, everyone, and a special thanks
to our producer Joey pat and our executive producer Maya
Cole Howard, who guides us well we guide you. Hit
us up on Instagram at other Side Guides, or shoot
us a note at high Hi at vibes dot store.
We want to know what you think, We want to
know what you know, and we want to hear your stories.
(31:45):
And remember our school is hard without the other Side.
Insider's Guide to the Other Side is a production of
I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio,
visit the I heart Radio app, Spotify, Apple, pod Cast,
or wherever you get your podcasts, m
Welcome to Insider's Guide to the Other Side, a production
of My Heart Radio. Hi, y'all, I'm Julie. Hi there,
I'm Brenda. Welcome to Insider's Guide to the Other Side. Now,
y'all need to know that we are obsessed with everything
on the other side. Yes we are, because once you
(00:22):
learn to navigate the energetic, or to some the invisible world,
life is going to be more fun and much more serene. Heck,
yes it can, because, let's be honest, Brian, earth school
is hard. In fact, you taught me that let's crush
earth School together. Well, hello, my wishy to. How in
(00:46):
the world are you? I'm doing great, my health, how
are you? You know? Unlike the title of this episode,
I'm actually doing pretty good. I am not indifferent good
at the moment, I'm so glad, but I'm him pretty good.
We just rolled in back into Arkansas, so it's like,
where in the world is your elf? Should be a
(01:07):
new card game. I like it. I like it. Say
you're in back at the homestead. Back at the Homestead. Yeah,
we're here, and today we're talking about something people don't
often talk about. Right, we are, and it's it's here's
what's funny. Um, I would never consider myself and a
(01:28):
in a different person and in fact, the reason I
actually wanted. Right, we can all laugh at that, but
I learned from our pre talk because I mean, as
everybody knows, you and I chat, we tell stories. I
really wish sometimes we could just record when we're just
chit chatting around because it's they it's they are really
amazing conversations. Um. And I remember when we were talking
(01:52):
about this, I said, I just had a new experience
and I'm feeling something different. You're like what my elf
and I go in different friends and I'm not familiar
with in difference And there apparently are two sides to indifference. Yeah,
it's an interesting position to land, and especially for someone
(02:12):
like you who's has so much passion for life. Right,
I'm exhausting even to myself. Yeah, And and it's part
it's just part of the many parts that make you
so enchanting to be with, because because your passion is contagious. Right, Yeah,
let's do that. That could be. Yeah, let's do a podcast.
(02:36):
You want to you want to go down the street
to get some gas. I know, I know it's going
to be awesome and I typically find myself to be
a relatively optimistic person. I mean, I have things that
I'm not necessarily optimistic about. But to experience and to
feel indifference was new to me. So I have a story,
and then dumont if I tell my story, and then
(02:57):
were how to go back? We want to know how
you got too indifferent? How I got to be in different? Right?
You're doing doing different? It's so weird. Um, So I'll
go ahead and get started. It's um, it's a little
bit of a sad story. Actually, back in nineteen nineteen
(03:17):
d and story we talked about this is stupid, this
is the super origin. But you know, back in the
early nineties, actually it was. It's when I met Susanne
and I was three years old, turning baby, I know, right,
baby lesbian by the way, wearing um, I wore penny
(03:40):
loafers with holes in the bottom, jean shorts um, a
polo button down, and bright red lipstick in my semi
permed hair. I mean it was I was quite a backage.
That's a commitment, right, You're not indifferent about that? No? No,
And I remember Suzanne said why And I had a
duct tape on the out of my shoes because why
(04:01):
do you have duck tape on the bottom of shoes?
I go because the pavement is hot, and she goes,
you know, you can get those resold, like you can.
Keep in mind, is a MoMA Oklahoma talking. I had
no idea. It was hillbilly Julie. It was long before
Elf came around. It was hillbilly. God bless Susanne. God
bless her for actually picking me, because I'm not sure
(04:24):
I would have um. And she said, well, you know,
you get that. You know we can take care of that,
take care of that. Waking a new salt and she's like, well,
why why didn't just get a new pair of shoes. Listen,
I have a wide foot with a high arch. There
shoes are not fun for me. So if I find
something that fits, even if I have to put duck
tape on it, I'm gonna wear them. So anyway, this
is that this is the season of the story. By
(04:46):
the way, Okay, I wish I still had those shoes,
but Suzanne, she sneaked one night and threw them away
and it really pissed me off. Anyway, so around this
time of my duck tape on the bottom of my
penny loafers. Um, I didn't have to ask. Did you
actually put pennies in your penny loafers? No, I did
(05:08):
not know, but that was a thing though I did not.
But speaking of currency, because you know how I liked
to ping pong around. Um right, I just took Sticky
out on a walk and I found a twenty dollar bill.
I love that. So I can have put lots of
pennies and lots of shoes so all of but it's
(05:31):
really I have fewer shoes than twenty But anyway, um,
so that is what I look like. And I better
have a photograph that we could put up if we
want to play with. And there was a friend of
mine that I grew up with. We' only her name
out of it. But there was a friend of mine
that I grew up with, not Cubby by the way,
um that was generously throw around random. Oh my god, seriously,
(05:55):
it's like it Cubby makes her way into every episode
that it was not kind of it was a It
was a different friend of mine that was coming to
Dallas and wanted a place to stay, and she's like,
do you mind if I stay? I'm like sure. Now,
this was the first place Susan and I lived in together.
It was like a little, you know, kind of condo
apartment thing by the gallerya Mall, which Susan called the
(06:18):
Goneria Mall in Dallas. Um, oh my god. I lived
less than a mile from there. That's where we were.
That's right off the Toad Road. Susan held the Toll Road,
the Noad Road, so everything's off the tond Yeah, so
it was gallerya Mall. It was early, I mean it
was still and so this friend came to visit, and
(06:39):
you know, I was still pretty much in the closet
with people that I grew up with. You know, being
gay in especially from Oklahoma, living in Texas is not
exactly a welcome news to people. A lot of judgment,
a lot of issues. Right. So this is, you know,
my first this is a story really my first coming out,
not my second one with taking pictures ago. This is
(07:00):
actually my first coming out. So, um, she came to
stay with us. She got in kind of um, I
don't know, like late, and it was a one bedroom place.
She stayed downstairs on the sofa, and then Susanne and
I went to work and we're like, you're welcome to
use our bathroom is the only one that had a
shower in it, and so um. Apparently she realized there
was one bed um and she was leaving like it
(07:24):
was a quick kind of turnaround thing. She left, and
the day after she left, the number of phone calls
that I got from people saying, hey, reagor we're hurt,
we heard you're gay. So she effectively left that day
and burned up the phone lines of Southwestern Bell to
tell everybody gossipy Reader's gay. Yeah right, So I was
(07:52):
unto pleased. In fact, I was hurt and I was embarrassed.
I was all of these things because it was my
news right to share it was an anybody else's and
to do it in my own time and in my
own way. Now, my mother knew obviously at that time,
and that was fine, but other people didn't. And I
was trying to I was figuring out a I was
trying on this new body body suit, you know. I
(08:14):
was like I had a new outfit on, trying to
figure it out, trying to get comfortable in it before
I go out and have conversations. I never had an
issue with new people that I met, No shame, no nothing.
It's like oh yeah, it's my girlfriend at the Times's
and blah blah blah. But what do you deal with
your past in such a tectonic shift and who you
(08:35):
thought you were versus who you are? Um is uh
is a whole other world, right and it and for
you to lose control of that is harming. Yes, And
that's what it felt like. I mean, I you know,
you hear the same thing. I don't stab me in
(08:57):
the back. I felt I was stabbed all over, is
what it felt like. And it felt like my world
was collapsing. Um. I got calls from our old family hairdresser,
I got calls from my mother's friends and were they
were they calling out like out of a curiosity or
calling out of support any of them? It was a
(09:19):
bit of both. I think curiosity was more than anything.
You know. Luckily, at to that point in my life
felt like I had developed some fairly you know, healthy,
strong enough relationships that you know, I was only there
was rejection that had happened during this time. Um. Yeah,
sadly by my aunt, but that's a whole not my
crazy aunt Marlene on my mom's side. It was my
(09:43):
uncle's wife at the time. Uh. And um, so rejection
was certainly a part of what it was like, but
just having to be it's out of the blue, right,
that was the It was a surprise. I didn't it
was an absolute sabotage. And so on the no of sabotage.
Why don't we take a quick break and we'll come
back and talk about what happened next. Okay, we'll be
(10:06):
right back, and we are back at the end. We're back,
Like I just say thank you, But you know, I
just wanted I just look, I know that you are
(10:27):
fine today, and you know it's a story from the past.
But what makes me so it just makes me very
sad for you to have to deal with that. But
it's so you know, people do this every day, but
she really made it your personal life and how you
move through this world. She made it about her, like
(10:48):
I have scoop, right, I have I have social currency.
This is going to up my street cred and and
used that for her own benefit. It wasn't even about Hey,
I found this out about our friend, and I'm curious,
I'm concerned, I'm supportive. I wanted you to know, like,
it's not even anything about that. It was it was
(11:09):
about her, like otherway, she would have had to call
so many people, right, she didn't call me, by the way,
in her uh and in her in her dialing happiness,
she which that's frankly who you should call. I will
tell you though, before we move any further. It was
such a valuable lesson to where I am a hell
of a secret keeper. If somebody, if there's something going on,
(11:32):
I am all about not my news, Yeah it is
not my news. Will I gossip about stuff, yeah, I'm human,
but I will never break news for somebody. I will
never do that because I know exactly what that feels like,
which is again why I'm really not you know, life
experiences can certainly mold who we are obviously, um and UM.
(11:53):
You know. One of the reasons that I am not
an aggressive because I'm really not aggressive. I talk aggressive,
but I'm not physically aggressive because I dealt with being
had the ship beat out of me as a kid.
So it's like, I know, I'm not any of those things.
So there is a gratefulness to that event, to that
to this moment that we're talking about because of it
did make me a better person and I and I
(12:13):
got that message pretty quick. So that's the good news
of it. The bad news is it absolutely utterly broke
my heart and it was scary as fuck. That is
scary when somebody calls you and says I heard you're gay,
and what do you do? I mean? Uh? Um, So
that was let's um, let's fast forward a little bit.
(12:35):
Let's fast forward to uh about three weeks ago. Okay, excellent.
So this person, um, what is our name for people?
Telling Sally? We're gonna say Sally, and it makes me
laugh because I see you're Sally. So let's say Sally.
So Sally had reached out and I was asking me
(12:56):
about crystals. I had seen her, Um, she actually was
had a nice relationship with my mother. She showed up
to her service, you know, eleven years ago. I have
seen her since we've been here. I had decided to
be decent, you know, um like be kind, I guess
kind slash decent um. But she had reached out and
(13:20):
was asking me for some help with some crystals for
her boys, who had a few, you know, some struggles
that they were dealing with. And she was texting me,
and so I decided that I would just call her back.
So we get on the phone and she's telling me
about her kids. Were having this really great conversation about crystals,
and then she made a comment about being at my
(13:41):
mother's service, and she goes, even though you were mad
at me, it was her comment. And I said, oh right,
and I said, would you like to know why? So
I offered do you want to know? Like again, that's
a Brenda that's a Brenda special, which is to ask
for permission. Right, You're welcome, thank you. Um. So the
(14:05):
Brenda special was, I said, well, would you like to
know why? And she said, well yeah, and I and
I told her, I'm like, you outed me to everybody,
and she goes, oh, no, I knew it had to
do with that trip. I didn't know what it was.
I said, really, he didn't know, and it was. It
was a fine conversation, by the way. You know, she
(14:27):
was very apologetic and I appreciated the apology. I absolutely
accepted it. She tried to explain herself, which is fine.
Um Later even came back and asked if she could
tell the story to her son's to teach her sons
a lesson. Like she accepted it. She accepted her role.
I mean, by the way, a plus for how she
handled the the recent conversation. Um, she really didn't know,
(14:55):
you know, I I th sa as soon as she's twenty,
she's in the range of when I happened as well.
So just an immature twenty three, right, I mean. And
I even gave her that out. I said, listen, we
were young. I said, it's it's still not okay. You
should have known better, you know, but I'll write off
the age. Um, but still it's not okay kind of thing.
(15:17):
And uh so then, so how the indifference came about was,
of course, now Cubby comes into play, of course, and
uh because she always comes into play. I just hang
up the phone with her ten minutes before we got on,
so she always comes into play. And uh so I
told Cubby what happened. And again, this whole conversation, the
(15:38):
whole event that happened was not planned. Um, it was
probably what is that thirty years to thirty years a
little late. And I even said that on when the conversation,
I said, I will actually own the fact that I
did not speak to you after that, because I could
have done that. You know, both of us could have
done some different things. There's no question. So I tell
(15:59):
Cubby this story and shes oh wow, She's like, well read,
or how do you feel? Like, how how do you
feel about this? And I sat there and I kind
of like, hmm, how do I feel? And I go,
this is a very foreign feeling to me. She was
what do you mean? She was, are you relieved? She
started giving me a list adjectives right, like, how do
you feel? These are emotions not adjectives and emotions okay,
(16:24):
she was probably expecting me to actually use some adjectives,
by the way, um, and and I I go, I
this one's new to me. And I said I think
I need to pick in different and she's, well, what
do you mean? And she do not feel better? And
I said, no, you don't feel worse. I said, no,
I don't feel better. I don't feel worse. I'm glad
(16:46):
we had the conversation. But in terms of because I
checked my body right again, another Brendow special, these things happen,
and I do a check head to toe? What do
I feel? Do I feel any different anywhere in my body?
How does my heart feel? How does my gut feel?
How does my back feel? How do my knees feel?
How do my ankles feel? I'm going through the whole
(17:08):
thing about what what sign am I going to get? What? What? What?
What is my body telling me? How? What information is
available to me? Here? Exactly right? What information is available
to me? I felt no different. I didn't feel heavier.
I didn't feel lighter, I didn't feel more flexible. I
didn't feel stiffer. I didn't feel hot. I didn't feel cold.
I mean that like this, I kept going through those,
(17:31):
and poor Gubby has to listen to me go through it.
While I don't feel hot, it don't feel cold. I
don't feel that, you know. I was like, what are
you doing? And I landed at this place of I
go I think, I feel indifferent. This is foreign. I
don't know what to do with this, because I normally
would be like, oh, it was great, we're gonna go
(17:51):
have dinner. No, it wasn't that, or it wasn't a
I never want to speak to that bit you get Nope,
when any of that, it was this kind of you know,
I would have been I'm fine to see her, I'm fine.
Not I mean, it's just indifference. So and then you
told it, go ahead, please tell me just to say
(18:11):
it's like a profound neutral within you like. It doesn't
have any momentum, it doesn't have any stickiness to hold
you back. It's just like it is what it is.
This profound neutrality more of an accurate word for it.
This is another word for it. It's another word for like.
But it just felt indifferent to me um. And again
I could be using the word incorrectly, and that's always fair,
(18:32):
but it's one I'm very unfamiliar with. Yeah, like, I'm
unfamiliar with being a gymnast that is usually has unfamiliar
I am with the word in different. I'm unfamiliar with
being a supermodel, as I'm unfamiliar with the word of different, excellent, excellent.
And again, you know, we opened with this isn't a
(18:52):
word that people talk about very much because it's it's
just not used very often because usually we are talking
about things either we're be passionate about in a positive
way or in a negative way. We're not charged words
that I have charged. This word doesn't have charged to
it until you told me it did well it can
and we're going to talk about that when we come
(19:13):
back from this break. English lesson lesson from the Wise
Witch Chatty, which anyhow, and we are back from the
heavy break and I was kidding. I was just saying
(19:35):
on break, it's like I hit the like best friend
lotto with heaven. I could not be happier in the world.
It's O great, It's O great. Um. So, when you know,
when we were talking about indifference in how like it
doesn't have any charge and there's the other side, right,
because everything has a different potentially potentiality to it. A
(19:58):
different interpretation is that when people think about hatred, they
think about you know, being like they did. Like when
when you're able to think or do or speak harm
(20:21):
to someone with intention, like you have to be passionately
engaged with them, right, that's what they think. But there
is an element that the research would indicate you that
you actually end up being indifferent to them because there
(20:41):
is a part of the brain that says your pain
is nothing to me, right, So that is the flip
side of indifference where it's not a profound neutrality, it
creates an opening for to create pain. That is, everybody
(21:02):
can go back and listen to Magical douche Bag. Because
I believe that I was in different that definition of
indifferent with that conversation, say more about that, Um, I
could whichever direction he wanted to go. I could really
care less, and I was more than happy to reign
(21:23):
terror on him by being so calm because I didn't care. Yeah,
I mean, it wasn't different in that way. Yeah, And
so I think it's important to think about that, because, like,
there is a profound neutrality that is serenity that says
it is what it is. I'm in acceptance with things
I can't change the control. Right that that is literally
(21:45):
part of the serenity prayer, right, Um. And in that
way that that can be an indifference, that is choosing
both serenity insanity. And then there is the shadow side
of surendity of of indifference that says, I don't care you.
(22:06):
I am indifferent to your happiness, to your wellness, to
your pain, to your suffering. You don't matter to me
in any way, shape or form, right, which is the
opposite of compassion and empathy and these things that fuel
our humanity. Right. That is not the definition of a
(22:28):
difference that I experienced. I am so glad though, to
understand that, because now I can actually pinpoint those different
times that I actually probably wasn't different in that way,
which again goes back to the magical douche bag. It's
like I didn't give a shit about his pain. I
mean I really didn't. I was just like, go ahead,
(22:48):
like spin yourself up, knock yourself out. You're not going
to pick you up. I don't. I don't care. Yeah,
that's not how I feel about this other one. Right
and again, I think these are distinctions, right, these are is.
This is a very esoteric in a way that people
may or may not care, but it's also a very
(23:10):
nuanced way to live. And you know, to move through
life with these distinctions, to know which frequency am I activating?
Which side am I landing on? With consciousness and discernment,
there's a huge accountability on a soul level. Right and again,
if you don't know to look for the shadow side
(23:31):
of it, when you don't know to look, like where
where am I landing in this? Where do I choose
to activate? I can feel it, but I don't have
to activate it within me. I don't have to voice it,
I don't have to act upon it. Um this is
this is a very high spiritual lesson, right. So that's
that's why I thought it was interesting. Oh, I love that.
I I think it was I listen, let's be honest.
(23:52):
I love to bring this stuff up because you'll always
teach me something and it's just so valuable. And you know,
we share these stories. We've said a hundred times, but
we share these stories. I mean, I'll be a very
personal stories because there is somebody out there that has
experienced something similar and they can at least put a
name to it and they can think through it. And
(24:13):
the magic of this is the paying attention, right, It's
at being present and paying attention. And I like when
I say, you know, so called Sally uh scs so
called Sally, um that I felt and you know that
she got an A plus plus for how she handled
(24:35):
the whole conversation. I would give myself a solid ay
for paying attention, you know. And um, I always strive
to have that high mark in life now because paying attention,
like I want to learn my stuff. I want to
know where I'm going. Um, I want to understand it
so when it happens again, if it happens again, I
(24:57):
know what it is. I want to identify and I
can again you're looking for that information in your algorithm
of life that says, well, can I pull from you know?
And when you live with consciousness, in that level of awareness,
you kind of do you know what in the business world, right,
they call a hotwash? Right then? What what? What? What
do we love? What do we hate? What we do differently?
(25:17):
How can we improve it? What we never do again? Like,
but when you live with that level of accountability, you're
always improving your own algorithm. And um, and again you
have to pay attention. And you know, all the stories
we share is you know, in more in the archetypal version,
like we know someone has at least one person out
there has this thing going on in their world. Like
(25:37):
we just assume, you know, the all is in the
small and the small is in the all. So listen
to you, like you are spouting off coffee cups like
crazy right now, fantastic, the algorithm of life all that,
this is the whole coffee cup that's me right, or
teacup because neither one of those coffees that was weird
(26:03):
because we don't use them. That's true, that's true. They're
good serving size for sugar free pudding. So somebody maybe
has done that these coffee cups for that. Um, you
know I UM. I also think what's really important is
to not only understand, like in the moment, right, like
(26:23):
those emotions and what we're dealing with in the light,
the shadow, all of that of it, but also what
could have been done different from my side, because I'm
always into keeping my side of the street clean best
I can. I have no power and influence over anybody
else's side of the street, but only my own. And
if I could go back, I would have had the
(26:44):
courage to pick up the phone. I didn't have courage
at that time. I was a cowardly lion at the moment.
I would say, you are under sabotaged, right, you are
under attack. That's what it felt. It did, Yeah, and
it's really hard to take the high road when you
are you know, your whole nervous system thinks you are
in five fight. You know your your life is at
risk because socially, that's what it felt like, like wait
(27:06):
very much did Yeah? So because you were sabotaged. So
now weeks later, maybe months later, you could have maybe
maybe not let thirty years go by. Maybe it's what
my overall messages. Maybe it's not the next day, but
I'm telling you, when you get a call from your
childhood hairdresser, named until we usta hooden pile. That's the name,
by the way. Now we will ever be able to
spell it or remember it, but it is the wildest
(27:27):
sassinating I've ever met. But of cow Westa. When you
get a call from your high school, right, you get
a call like I heard your dad, I'm like, gosh, ship, right,
it's that ship. I didn't get to sit down with
her hitting up, by the way, absolutely loved her. She
was a big part of her life. Small town right,
this is doesn't matter how what he does, just a
(27:49):
big you know, do cares it's mom Oklahoma, um, big
part of our life and not being that being stripped
away of me being able to sit with her and
tell her here's what's going on. Yeah, you know, I
didn't get that chance. It's I didn't get it and
(28:10):
uh and that was very upseting to me. That's very
much in that kind of Buddhist I think, um way
of you know, theft, stealing from them is actually stealing
someone's moment, not actually stealing somebody's watch, right, not the
material objects, you know, it's the more important things, like
taking somebody's a moment, and she took a lot of
(28:30):
moments from me m a lot. So I just think
it's important to tell these stories people to think about.
And few hold information of somebody like this, you know,
um thinks stop dropping a roll before you pick up
the phone and start calling or texting or getting on
social media out somebody or whatever it may be, you know. Um.
(28:52):
And the other thing is, I think when we're dealing
with other people so often like why would they do that? Right,
there's your mind just spends why why would they do that?
Why would they do that to me? Why would they
do Like her mind literally wants to know, and there
are things that are unknowable, like we don't know. I mean,
from the sounds of it, she wasn't even aware, probably
(29:13):
not that she didn't even understand that that wasn't hers
to share. We do so many things unconsciously, right, and
she's just like I got gossip, you know, And that's
that says more about her, you know, who she is
in the world than anything else, um, you know. And
so you just have to go, you know what, they
made that choice. I don't have to understand it because
(29:36):
it's not my choice. Doesn't matter, right my and and
some things you're never gonna you're just never gonna understand
because you're not them. You didn't you didn't make that choice.
You couldn't even imagine making that choice. So I think
that's a really important step to release you from even
the idea that she did that to you, however many
people she called, She did that to you, how many times.
(29:57):
But you could have lived a life completely damaged by that,
by going over and over and over in your head.
And it seems to me like you just stepped away
from that after you dealt with everyone, and just forward,
like you didn't let it re traumatize you over and
over again. And I think I stepped away, absolutely right,
That's exactly what I did. And so I think one way,
when if you find yourself stuck in a situation where
(30:18):
someone truly victimized you in this way, you know that
you have to just go you know what, I don't.
It's not my job to understand they're crazy or their
cruelty or their unconsciousness, whatever it was, and just give
yourself permission to move forward with your life. Yeah, And
I will say, thirty years later, yes, I do not
believe that's who she is anymore. So I will absolutely
give her that. I will give her. I gave her
(30:39):
the A plus plus on it. That's um and uh
and I mean really high marks. So there's that. That's beautiful.
That's all and then truly all you can hope for.
That's amazing. Yeah, well, my owl, thank you for another
interesting school lesson. So it's like bombarded with them. For
the love of God, it's like it's always something in
(31:01):
my world, which doesn't mean with you po just living living,
that's right. Thank you and thanks for listening everybody, and
remember her school is hard without the other side. By y'all.
(31:22):
Thank you for joining us, everyone, and a special thanks
to our producer Joey pat and our executive producer Maya
Cole Howard, who guides us well we guide you. Hit
us up on Instagram at other Side Guides, or shoot
us a note at high Hi at vibes dot store.
We want to know what you think, We want to
know what you know, and we want to hear your stories.
(31:45):
And remember our school is hard without the other Side.
Insider's Guide to the Other Side is a production of
I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio,
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