November 22, 2023 • 30 mins
Today's episode comes to us from our longtime listener Lindsey, who wrote in to ask: Is the use of sage and palo santo for smudging considered cultural appropriation?
For many, smudging is an essential part of their spiritual and wellness practice. As we continue to evolve and educate ourselves, we naturally want to ensure the practices we enjoy are ethically and morally appropriate. The use of smoke to cleanse and clear has roots in many cultures and religions around the globe. Due to the high-frequency sage and palo santo carry, how you procure your smudging materials and your intentions while using them are the most mindful ways to honor and respect smudging's deeply rooted and sacred origins.
Today, we clear the smoke around smudging, share resources to ensure you purchase your cleansing tools properly, and dive into the emotional and mystical components of smoke and ritual.
Because it's all about energy... and Earth School is hard without some deep cleaning from the Other Side.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Insider's Guide to the Other Side, a production
of iHeartRadio. Hi, y'all, I'm Julie.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Hi there, I'm Brenda. Welcome to Insider's Guide to the
Other Side.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Now, y'all need to know that we are obsessed with
everything on the other side.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Yes, we are, because once you learn to navigate the energetic,
or to some the invisible world, life is going to
be more fun and much more serene.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Uh heck, yes it can, because, let's be honest, br in,
earth school is hard. In fact, you taught me.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
That let's crush Earth school together.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Well, hello, my witchy pooh, how is the beginnings of winter?
I guess they're late fall doing for you.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
It's definitely late fall. It's great, It's all great. Moving on, it.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Is moving on. Hey, I got to break out all
my sweatshirts and I have a horde of them, and
I have new ones I've introduced.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Sweatshirts are the best.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Oh my gosh. I have one that I love and
it is it is Bigfoot and on it it says
Hide and Seek World Champion.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
That is impressive. I have to say, new to the collection.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
I love sweatshirts and if anything can make me giggle,
that's all I need. If other people are entertained, that's
fine and all. But as long as I am, that's
what counts.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
It's a secondary benefit. Yes, it totally is.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
It's like, if you think it's funny, great, good on you.
But I think it's funny. So there you have it.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
I get that. I appreciate that. Oh mercy, So what
do we have? What do you have for us today?
But I really I have nothing to top that?
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Right? How do you top Hide and Seek World Champion?
It's pretty fucking genius?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Good?
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Okay, So this is actually from one of our collective
favorite listeners that actually didn't even start out as a listener.
Her name is Lindsay and she started out actually she
found me from my.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Book as a reader.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
She started out, Yeah, she can read Way to Go, Lindsay.
And I've actually talked to Lindsay a number of times.
I know that she has been a part of your classes.
I know she's been to a uh slong with you
as well. Yeah. So, by the way, you know, Eslin
sounds like Aslan, Like that, isn't there some mythical place
(02:48):
called It's in a movie? Why to even bring it up.
I don't even understand myself sometimes, why don't even say
that out loud? Because I look at you and it's like,
why did I just say that? It's kind of like you.
It is a flat line. It's like you talking about
me eating something ervetic or something. I mean, that's the
same thing. It's like you're talking to me about eating
(03:08):
gee or some shit. You're going to see a flat
look on my face and me's talking about some mythical,
magical place in a movie. If flat linees on your ass.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
But anyway, you're talking about Avalon, aren't you. No, I'm
not okay, No, I'm not okay. I don't know what Clearly,
I don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
I know, I know. I think it was actually from
a Marvel movie. But anyway, So I would love to
read her question because I mean, I loved her before this.
This fucking great question.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Is so thoughtful, right, it's so thoughtful great questions.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
So here we go, Lindsey. She says, Hello, I'd just
love to read these things I love. Weirdly, I just
love people, still dogs more than people. But it's sometimes
I like people a lot. Hello, Oh, would love to
know what you both think regarding the use of Paulo
(04:04):
Santo and sage for smudging, or perhaps the use of
burning any plant or wood for spiritual purposes. I've heard
so much about it being cultural appropriation, which I totally get,
but it's also become a beautiful part of my own
spiritual practice. I, as a white woman, feel it's important
(04:27):
to be aware of these kinds of things and to
take action wherever I can to correct my behavior out
of respect to other culture. By the way, no wonder,
your name's not Karen, it's Lindsay. Like that is so
beautiful that she cares so deeply about this. I just
I mean, for real, she's not a Karen. I don't
think any of our listeners are actually Karen's. But okay,
(04:50):
I go pick up our left off white woman behavior respect.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
I was recently speaking to a friend about smudging her home,
and she was angry at me for even suggesting we
burn sage when I clear energy. I love using smoke.
I can feel it shifting and changing the space around me,
and I'm having trouble giving that up. And then she
goes w WBJD, which is what would Brenda and Julie do.
(05:17):
We need bracelets totally, Like forget Taylor Swift and her
friendship bracelets. We can out swift the Swifties and we
can have WWBJD although BJ's in there.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Almost, sir, that's gonna work, but I might have to
be JD JB.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
I think it should. I think lindsay, we're just gonna
have one correction on there will be wwjbd. Okay, let's
unpack this. There's so much. There's two categories. So let's
just if you don't mind, I'm gonna be a little
BOSSI and try to strike sure this where people can
(06:02):
get a whole shitload out of it, because it is
such a beautiful question and not from a Karen. The
first is let's call it usage, so she really asked about,
you know, how we feel about about burning plants and
you know, and then the second let's talk about cultural appropriation.
So let's hit usage first. Do you want to start?
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Sure? I'm a fan?
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Okay, VN full stop. We're done, y'all.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
I hope you enjoyed. Yeah, so.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
You know the.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
I recently have been to a number of funerals, right,
and it's been a while since I've been in a
full Catholic service. But of course they you know, come
down the aisle and cleared no less than five times
on the altar, which I'd never seen before, moving the
incense and the smoke around the all her swinging like
(07:01):
the the basically the incense burner, you know, and like
giant swinging. Now, I was in the South, and maybe
they've always done it that way, like when the Midwest
were a little more subtle, I think, But so it
wasn't because I've normally just seen it come down the
aisle and then around the altar once, but throughout the
service they did it like five different times, which is
(07:22):
really interesting. During my Aunt Lois's funeral, and it was
Aunt Lois, I know, she jumped.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
I just wanted to take a second.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
And Aunt Lois, she she was lovely and had a
great ride, you know.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
I know, and just a beautiful hit. I was so
fortunate to have met her, and I'm so glad. I'm
sorry I got I did more than a moment. I
just love at Lowis. I know how much you love
Aunt Lois, and beautiful inside and out. She looks like you.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Well and vice versa. It was a great It was
a great celebration to be with her people and people
who loved her, so that that was lovely. But this,
this tradition rights, this is just top of mind and
again to see and the priest, because it was a
funeral and not everyone was Catholic, the priest talked about
(08:11):
how the smoke literally carries the messages up to the
angelic realm. Right, it's yes, it's it's the transportation to
transmute the information to the prayers, the and and so
it they do it to create the the sanctuary, right,
(08:33):
to create a cleansed space. And then in the closing,
with the number of times they've did it, you know,
in this particular way, was the closing, and that's when
he talked about carrying the messages of our prayers or
offerings or are singing all that to carry it up
to the to the divine and it was it was
very inclusively offered and explained and not in a condescending way.
(08:56):
And so I just want to offer that this how
Lindsay's attracted to the smoke to cleanse and clear because
it's for generations in different cultures, this has been used
to be a three dimensional cleanser to create sacred space,
(09:17):
to clear out low frequencies, to prepare and for ritual
like these. These are just some of the ways that
different cultures have used it. So when you're looking to
clear a home, you know what's more sacred than how
we live our everyday life. It's a pretty powerful thing.
(09:40):
So I think this is you know, you can feel
it in your bones. You know this works. And trust
your instincts, lindsay, is what I'd say. You are spot on.
And so if if you were doing it just because
like you saw it done on TikTok and you're like,
let's try that, you know, but that's that's not what's
happening here.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
No, it's not what happened. Happened is happening here because
I think what some people think. Let me just back
up a second. So when I was doing research for
my book, I learned a lot about what you just said,
and so or did you tell me? I think I
did research? It was research and you how about that?
But you know, I listen, I grew up in a
(10:23):
you know, in Oklahoma, which is a native land, and
so I did research about more of indigenous people and
plus now I live in the land of Sage. I
mean you can't, like, you know, my friend named her
dog's age. So it's like there's stage everywhere here in
New Mexico. And it is about It is about, you know,
(10:46):
transmuting in what I had heard to the heavens is
what I had read when I was studying about it,
and I think there's a big difference that a lot
of people may not understand. It's like, it's not like
you go walk into a house and you know you're
just waving around burning branches. That's not what this is
because it is so much more about the intention behind it.
(11:08):
In fact, you are the one who taught me how
to clear house. You were the right. I really need
to start an official Brenda fan club because I think
I say so regularly. You taught me this, you taught
me that, and you did it's all true. But you
taught me how to clear a home, and it was
sage and it was about even doing this seams where
(11:31):
the walls meet, and the like the floor, working your
way up, working counterclockwise. But it was also more about
what my intention was. I wasn't just waving burning branches
in my house or anybody else's house for that matter.
I was very focused and it was a combination of
the two of us, meaning me and the smoke. I
(11:53):
have since gotten to the point where as much as
I love to use it, I don't always need it
now because you know, I'm kind of a badass when
it comes to the ghosty shit, but can't lie. But
that's the purpose, right, Like It's been used forever, and
so sage is something that I think is very common
(12:16):
that people use. We will definitely get to the cultural
appropriation part of it and keep going through this because
I also just want to say other things that when
I researched this was that our indigenous ancestors used it
to clear like what they would call hungry ghosts, right,
And these are ghosts that earthbound spirits, right, that wanted
(12:39):
something from souls that were embody that we're in a
human body. So you had actually taught me, right, like
to be able to move those earth bound spirits up,
you need to use smoke to do that.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Yeah, they because no self respecting spirit would be caught
in the haze of smoke. They would want to move
with it, right and then move on out. I would
I caught them, yeah, Well, yeah, that's true. But I
would also say you know, just as far as we're
talking about usage right now, and you had asked about
(13:13):
Palasanto specifically, and I think it's important to remember that
a sage has a specific frequency too clear, and it's
the palasanto actually is I think of it more as
sealing the space because it's a specific high frequency that
(13:33):
won't necessarily clear. Other than it's high frequency, like it
brings in more of a blessing, more of a seal
of the frequency I'm trying to hold and create here,
but to clear. It's like you know, people who would
sweep the dirt under the rug and then pretty rug
on top of it, you know, right, like the palasanta
(13:54):
would be the pretty rug on top of it. But
if you you know, have if it's still dirty, and
just so I have like negativity, trauma, spirit or energy
or you know, earth bound spirits underneath the rug that's
not really doing anybody any.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Good, correct, You're just hiding them.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Yeah, And so you want to use this age first
to clear and then to seal and bless the place
you would use the polo sent That's that's my that's
my usage in my experience with those plants with plant medicine.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
So mine too, by the way, because I used to
and will again. I think when we move is because
really can't move around this place right now, we've ship
packed everywhere. Is I used to. I used Paulo Santo
as a ritual. Every night. I would light because I
mean one stick would last me for a while, but
(14:45):
I would light the end of a stick and I
would actually walk. In this case, interestingly, it was clockwise,
not counterclockwise, because I was wanting to bring it in
and I would walk around our bedroom at night and
I would do a prayer that we had a RESTful sleep,
that everyone was taking care of, that we would wake
(15:06):
all together again and have another day together, and all
of that. And that was my nightly prayer that I
would do. And that was Paulo Santo. I loved it.
Sage that wasn't the purpose of sage was not that
for me, because I think what you said about locking
it in. And there's also something I think that with
the oils of the Polo Santo wood that is so
(15:31):
what what am I looking for?
Speaker 2 (15:32):
It's a high vibe.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
It's a high vibe, and it's very calming to me
because I think of the high vibe of it. I mean,
it has this it's a magnificent sensory experience. But to
also just feel it in your presence, there's definitely a
high vibe to it. So that's how I used it too,
and I will again do it. But I wanted to
(15:55):
quickly go back to stage two. Is so funny because
I totally forgot about this is when we actually bought
our house here. You know, listen, this is the land,
like I said, the land of sage is called the
land of enchantment. Everybody loves all the wuo woo shit like.
It is totally a good place to call home. And
(16:15):
the wife of the man that we bought the house from,
I guess we bought from her too, but she wasn't
a part of it. She went and cleared both structures.
So the main house by the way, I say main house,
don't be impressed, it's not very big, and the casita,
and so she did she did her own blessing in there,
and she left it for us in different rooms because
(16:38):
she was doing it as a gracious gratitude, making space
for Susanne and I to make it our own. That's
so beautiful. That's so beautiful, right, like it's such a
thing here. In fact, we even had like little welcoming
gifts from people that we had, you know, met early on,
and very common that people will give you. In facting
(17:00):
at it right now, you all can't see it, neither
can you. But I kept it because I want to
use it in our house when we move in. People
actually will give you bundles of this of sage as
a welcoming gift because of the community.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Right, you would normally smudge, right, It's.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Exactly right, So it's not an uncommon thing. And you know,
much like lindsay, these are white people that have white
women not named Karen that have given them to us
as well.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Beautiful, right, beautiful beautiful.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
So we're going to take a break and we'll be
right back and talk more about these beautiful, healing, powerful
verbs and welcome back, and we are going on to
part two of this conversation about cultural appropriation.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
You know, I love that she was so concerned about this.
I think it's actually really important. And so I'll do
a quick confession because you know, I haven't had to
use this as confessional in a while, but my confessional.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
I think it's been two episodes, but yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Yeh see, it's been a while to my point. You
just made my point, thank you very much. Honestly, when
for those that know, when I allegedly opened up a
portal extra house and Sherman Oaks and it was me
in my lab, Homer, he would walk away or walk
(18:35):
around the house or inside and outside the house, and
I was burning stage because I don't know what the
hell I had done. Really, I mean, you told me,
but you still don't know until you know, right, And
I had this like cute little kind of witches pot.
It was kind of fun. I think I bought it
at the Rose Bowl monthly, kind of like rummage sale
they'd have there. And I'm gonna, yeah, I guess what
(19:00):
made Yeah, that's probably the right thing that rummage sale.
Grandma showed up somehow or Leane just like came spouting
out my mouth, Uh fuck is wrong anyway, So I'll
confess I actually don't think that wherever I bought that
from was probably culturally appropriate. So I'm just gonna confess
(19:22):
that I don't think that I did that. And I
ended up having to buy in bulk, let's be honest,
because I had a lot of activity going on, and
I did actually find a seller. You know, it was
very reliant on Etsy back in the day.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
As we all know, I recall I should be an Etsy.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
And uh and have found uh some Native some Indigenous sellers.
Because let's be honest, and I want to be very
clear about this. Is much like other things in our world,
whether it be something like turkle is jewelry, right, these
are things that different tribes rely on to generate income.
(20:09):
And another thing that rely on is sage. So by
making sure that you buy it from the right people,
I think is probably the most important part. I don't
think you're appropriating the usage so much as it is
where you get it from.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Is that there, That's I think that's a really important component.
I think it's a really important component. And I would
also just correct myself because I was being flippant when
I said, you know, just because you saw it on TikTok.
There's a lot of good information on TikTok.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
You're so funny as long as we're confessing.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
But I'm like, you know, what I should I shouldn't
have said.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
That, but I do so funny. I do want to
think twice about it.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
But I was being funny, but the intention of how
you're using it matters. And you know, if you're trying
to show off to someone in what you know, like,
it matters. If you're trying to be a service, it
really matters. The energy you create, the wake of energy
(21:12):
you leave, the portal you've opened, like, it all matters.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
So yeah, and then I think that being mindful of
where you purchase it, So let's just address both of them.
So in terms of sage, there are tribes that most
definitely rely on selling. I mean, I again, I live
in this wonderland of incredible energy, incredible indigenous tribes. Most
(21:37):
of New Mexico I believe is actually Indian nation, and
we have Peblos. I mean, it's magical, right, and so
it's very easy for people like me to just go
down to the plaza and there are these magnificent indigenous
folks that are selling whether it be Turquoi's jewelry, things
(21:58):
like that, and they're also selling sage bunch. So to
be mindful about where you buy it, I think is critical.
I'd be careful of some of the crystal stores because
I don't believe that they are getting it from the
right plat I've seen it like I've seen cellars over
the years, and I know that it's not where it's
coming from, because sage can grow in a lot of
(22:18):
the Western States and they can just go out and
get it themselves and dry it and bundle it up.
But I wouldn't do that. So I think being mindful
about a tribe is important. And when it comes to
Polo Santo, it's interesting. You can only get Polo Santo
from Peru, right, You can't get it from the United States.
So and if you buy it, it is because the
(22:41):
Peruvians have actually harvested the dead Pollo Santo trees, at
least that's how they're supposed to do it. Is like
they don't harvest it. They don't actually harvest the wood
or the oil until the tree has died. Naturally, do
trees jump the plant before the soul of the tree
has of the planet, And that is when they are
(23:03):
allowed to actually go and harvest the wood. And if
they pull the the oils out, that's when they're allowed
to do it. So if you get a hold of
Paulo Santo, it only comes from the pruviance, right right,
no one else can do it, So it's kind of
automatically mindful because it only comes from one place. Is
(23:23):
that fair?
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Yep? Yep, okay, yep, okay, Well there's that.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
There's so I think the next time Lindsay or anybody
else deals with somebody who tries to shame you, because
I think sometimes people use cultural appropriation in an inappropriate way.
And I think that everything in the world, it can
somehow be used as a weapon. Right, there's a dark
and there's a light side to everything, and I think
(23:49):
some people can use cultural appropriation to try to throw
daggers at people. And as long as that you are
very clear with what it means and where you are
getting your sage from, you can say, hey, listen, I
only get it from the tribes because this is how
they make money.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Yeah, And I mean it could be her friend was
very well intended, or the woman that she was, you know,
went to work with or serve was well intended, and
it just came out a little awkward too, Like if
she as long as.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Oh, I'm so sorry, I wasn't judging that person. I
was just being I was being general about it.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
But I'm just saying she may have been just a
little awkward and said, hey, I love that you're concerned
about that. And this is a strong part of my
practice that I've used. I mean, when we do Athenis
magical secrets, we have little you know, just individual leafs
of sage that when whenever they come in the house
they smudge each other, right, because we're entering the priestess space.
(24:47):
You know.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
That's what Patricia did at the Crystal Matrix before class.
She had a giant, like iron cast thing I could
barely lift up, and she would she would be like, Okay,
you got to smudge yourself before you come in here.
And I mean full on. I smelled like I had
been and.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Like bathed in sage. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Yeah, everything smelled like smoke. And then, by the way,
if you find the right person, the right connection, you
can get some really sacred sage that I only still
have a little bit left. I've held onto it for
the longest time, and I got it from my friend Roxanne.
That was, I mean crazy powerful, Like there's levels y'all.
(25:30):
So yeah, if I find a really great place, I'll
I don't know, lindsay, I'll call you because I do
have your number, sister, But I just I don't I
think that if we can just handle things, like you said, Brenda,
with grace and as long as we're clear with what
(25:51):
we were doing. And I hate the fact, actually, Lindsay,
that you feel like you've had to kind of stop
this very important part of your practice because of the
questions of this cultural appropriation. Although I'm glad you're asking
it so we can help clarify for you so you
can get back to that really important piece of your practice.
(26:13):
And I hope we've answered those.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
No, you're doing great, Lindsay, and trust your instincts as always,
you're so dialed in, and you know, just trust it.
I've seen it in action. It's a beautiful, beautiful gift
and you get this.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Yeah, yeah, rock on, sister. I love this. And and
you know, if people have other questions, I'll tell you.
I'm just going to introduce another idea that I've had
some questions on and I want people to write us
and please ask us more. And that is actually the
ethical minding of crystals is one thing, but also the
phony stuff that has started to show up. Oh yeah,
(26:50):
I've read lots of articles lately about sometimes people are
selling plastic heavy plastic and calling go yes Sittrin is
one of the worst. Actually, oh yeah, absolutely and uh
or they'll they'll miss label things. I've dealt with this too,
where I went into a store this is in Los Angeles,
(27:11):
not obviously Patricia's place, and they were selling new miight
and I walked up to the person in the store
and I said, what is this and he goes, it's
new mic. I said, it's not. This is countertop. This
came from China. This is countertop. This is not new mic.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Whoa, that's There's it's so intense, it's so not okay.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Right, So there's a lot of this. A lot of
things are coming out. Like glass is another thing. There's
there's a lot of manufacturers in China that are making
like mold devite, it's green glass that they have molds for.
So there's a lot of crazy stuff going on out there.
So I'll pull that up. We'll make that another episode someday.
But there's just a lot of things, I think from
a spiritual standpoint that we all need to be clear on,
(27:58):
whether it's how do you use it, the cultural appropriation
pieces of it, and the legitimacy and a and authenticity
of things. So we'll keep going on this, So if
you guys have more questions about this, if we don't know,
we'll find out. And we'll also talk more about the
crystals at some point in the near future too.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
I have no words to say about that. I just
am blown away by that. So Lindsey, thank you. I
hope you know, just talking more about saging and clearing
and different practices of using smoke in your spiritual practice.
I hope it was interesting for everybody, So thanks for listening,
and remember our school is hard.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Without Paulo Santo Sage and the other Side.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Thanks y'all, Thanks everybody, Thank you for joining us. Everyone,
and a special thanks to our producer Joey Patt and
our executive producer Maya Cole Howard, who guides us while
we guide.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
You hit us up on Instagram at other Side Guides,
or shoot us a note at high Hi at Vibes
dot store.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
We want to know what you think, we want to
know what you know, and we want to hear your stories.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
And remember, our school is hard without the other Side.
Insider's Guide to the Other Side is a production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app. Spotify,
Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Welcome to Insider's Guide to the Other Side, a production
of iHeartRadio. Hi, y'all, I'm Julie.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Hi there, I'm Brenda. Welcome to Insider's Guide to the
Other Side.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Now, y'all need to know that we are obsessed with
everything on the other side.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Yes, we are, because once you learn to navigate the energetic,
or to some the invisible world, life is going to
be more fun and much more serene.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Uh heck, yes it can, because, let's be honest, br in,
earth school is hard. In fact, you taught me.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
That let's crush Earth school together.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Well, hello, my witchy pooh, how is the beginnings of winter?
I guess they're late fall doing for you.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
It's definitely late fall. It's great, It's all great. Moving on, it.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Is moving on. Hey, I got to break out all
my sweatshirts and I have a horde of them, and
I have new ones I've introduced.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Sweatshirts are the best.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Oh my gosh. I have one that I love and
it is it is Bigfoot and on it it says
Hide and Seek World Champion.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
That is impressive. I have to say, new to the collection.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
I love sweatshirts and if anything can make me giggle,
that's all I need. If other people are entertained, that's
fine and all. But as long as I am, that's
what counts.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
It's a secondary benefit. Yes, it totally is.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
It's like, if you think it's funny, great, good on you.
But I think it's funny. So there you have it.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
I get that. I appreciate that. Oh mercy, So what
do we have? What do you have for us today?
But I really I have nothing to top that?
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Right? How do you top Hide and Seek World Champion?
It's pretty fucking genius?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Good?
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Okay, So this is actually from one of our collective
favorite listeners that actually didn't even start out as a listener.
Her name is Lindsay and she started out actually she
found me from my.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Book as a reader.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
She started out, Yeah, she can read Way to Go, Lindsay.
And I've actually talked to Lindsay a number of times.
I know that she has been a part of your classes.
I know she's been to a uh slong with you
as well. Yeah. So, by the way, you know, Eslin
sounds like Aslan, Like that, isn't there some mythical place
(02:48):
called It's in a movie? Why to even bring it up.
I don't even understand myself sometimes, why don't even say
that out loud? Because I look at you and it's like,
why did I just say that? It's kind of like you.
It is a flat line. It's like you talking about
me eating something ervetic or something. I mean, that's the
same thing. It's like you're talking to me about eating
(03:08):
gee or some shit. You're going to see a flat
look on my face and me's talking about some mythical,
magical place in a movie. If flat linees on your ass.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
But anyway, you're talking about Avalon, aren't you. No, I'm
not okay, No, I'm not okay. I don't know what Clearly,
I don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
I know, I know. I think it was actually from
a Marvel movie. But anyway, So I would love to
read her question because I mean, I loved her before this.
This fucking great question.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Is so thoughtful, right, it's so thoughtful great questions.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
So here we go, Lindsey. She says, Hello, I'd just
love to read these things I love. Weirdly, I just
love people, still dogs more than people. But it's sometimes
I like people a lot. Hello, Oh, would love to
know what you both think regarding the use of Paulo
(04:04):
Santo and sage for smudging, or perhaps the use of
burning any plant or wood for spiritual purposes. I've heard
so much about it being cultural appropriation, which I totally get,
but it's also become a beautiful part of my own
spiritual practice. I, as a white woman, feel it's important
(04:27):
to be aware of these kinds of things and to
take action wherever I can to correct my behavior out
of respect to other culture. By the way, no wonder,
your name's not Karen, it's Lindsay. Like that is so
beautiful that she cares so deeply about this. I just
I mean, for real, she's not a Karen. I don't
think any of our listeners are actually Karen's. But okay,
(04:50):
I go pick up our left off white woman behavior respect.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
I was recently speaking to a friend about smudging her home,
and she was angry at me for even suggesting we
burn sage when I clear energy. I love using smoke.
I can feel it shifting and changing the space around me,
and I'm having trouble giving that up. And then she
goes w WBJD, which is what would Brenda and Julie do.
(05:17):
We need bracelets totally, Like forget Taylor Swift and her
friendship bracelets. We can out swift the Swifties and we
can have WWBJD although BJ's in there.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Almost, sir, that's gonna work, but I might have to
be JD JB.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
I think it should. I think lindsay, we're just gonna
have one correction on there will be wwjbd. Okay, let's
unpack this. There's so much. There's two categories. So let's
just if you don't mind, I'm gonna be a little
BOSSI and try to strike sure this where people can
(06:02):
get a whole shitload out of it, because it is
such a beautiful question and not from a Karen. The
first is let's call it usage, so she really asked about,
you know, how we feel about about burning plants and
you know, and then the second let's talk about cultural appropriation.
So let's hit usage first. Do you want to start?
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Sure? I'm a fan?
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Okay, VN full stop. We're done, y'all.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
I hope you enjoyed. Yeah, so.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
You know the.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
I recently have been to a number of funerals, right,
and it's been a while since I've been in a
full Catholic service. But of course they you know, come
down the aisle and cleared no less than five times
on the altar, which I'd never seen before, moving the
incense and the smoke around the all her swinging like
(07:01):
the the basically the incense burner, you know, and like
giant swinging. Now, I was in the South, and maybe
they've always done it that way, like when the Midwest
were a little more subtle, I think, But so it
wasn't because I've normally just seen it come down the
aisle and then around the altar once, but throughout the
service they did it like five different times, which is
(07:22):
really interesting. During my Aunt Lois's funeral, and it was
Aunt Lois, I know, she jumped.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
I just wanted to take a second.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
And Aunt Lois, she she was lovely and had a
great ride, you know.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
I know, and just a beautiful hit. I was so
fortunate to have met her, and I'm so glad. I'm
sorry I got I did more than a moment. I
just love at Lowis. I know how much you love
Aunt Lois, and beautiful inside and out. She looks like you.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Well and vice versa. It was a great It was
a great celebration to be with her people and people
who loved her, so that that was lovely. But this,
this tradition rights, this is just top of mind and
again to see and the priest, because it was a
funeral and not everyone was Catholic, the priest talked about
(08:11):
how the smoke literally carries the messages up to the
angelic realm. Right, it's yes, it's it's the transportation to
transmute the information to the prayers, the and and so
it they do it to create the the sanctuary, right,
(08:33):
to create a cleansed space. And then in the closing,
with the number of times they've did it, you know,
in this particular way, was the closing, and that's when
he talked about carrying the messages of our prayers or
offerings or are singing all that to carry it up
to the to the divine and it was it was
very inclusively offered and explained and not in a condescending way.
(08:56):
And so I just want to offer that this how
Lindsay's attracted to the smoke to cleanse and clear because
it's for generations in different cultures, this has been used
to be a three dimensional cleanser to create sacred space,
(09:17):
to clear out low frequencies, to prepare and for ritual
like these. These are just some of the ways that
different cultures have used it. So when you're looking to
clear a home, you know what's more sacred than how
we live our everyday life. It's a pretty powerful thing.
(09:40):
So I think this is you know, you can feel
it in your bones. You know this works. And trust
your instincts, lindsay, is what I'd say. You are spot on.
And so if if you were doing it just because
like you saw it done on TikTok and you're like,
let's try that, you know, but that's that's not what's
happening here.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
No, it's not what happened. Happened is happening here because
I think what some people think. Let me just back
up a second. So when I was doing research for
my book, I learned a lot about what you just said,
and so or did you tell me? I think I
did research? It was research and you how about that?
But you know, I listen, I grew up in a
(10:23):
you know, in Oklahoma, which is a native land, and
so I did research about more of indigenous people and
plus now I live in the land of Sage. I
mean you can't, like, you know, my friend named her
dog's age. So it's like there's stage everywhere here in
New Mexico. And it is about It is about, you know,
(10:46):
transmuting in what I had heard to the heavens is
what I had read when I was studying about it,
and I think there's a big difference that a lot
of people may not understand. It's like, it's not like
you go walk into a house and you know you're
just waving around burning branches. That's not what this is
because it is so much more about the intention behind it.
(11:08):
In fact, you are the one who taught me how
to clear house. You were the right. I really need
to start an official Brenda fan club because I think
I say so regularly. You taught me this, you taught
me that, and you did it's all true. But you
taught me how to clear a home, and it was
sage and it was about even doing this seams where
(11:31):
the walls meet, and the like the floor, working your
way up, working counterclockwise. But it was also more about
what my intention was. I wasn't just waving burning branches
in my house or anybody else's house for that matter.
I was very focused and it was a combination of
the two of us, meaning me and the smoke. I
(11:53):
have since gotten to the point where as much as
I love to use it, I don't always need it
now because you know, I'm kind of a badass when
it comes to the ghosty shit, but can't lie. But
that's the purpose, right, Like It's been used forever, and
so sage is something that I think is very common
(12:16):
that people use. We will definitely get to the cultural
appropriation part of it and keep going through this because
I also just want to say other things that when
I researched this was that our indigenous ancestors used it
to clear like what they would call hungry ghosts, right,
And these are ghosts that earthbound spirits, right, that wanted
(12:39):
something from souls that were embody that we're in a
human body. So you had actually taught me, right, like
to be able to move those earth bound spirits up,
you need to use smoke to do that.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Yeah, they because no self respecting spirit would be caught
in the haze of smoke. They would want to move
with it, right and then move on out. I would
I caught them, yeah, Well, yeah, that's true. But I
would also say you know, just as far as we're
talking about usage right now, and you had asked about
(13:13):
Palasanto specifically, and I think it's important to remember that
a sage has a specific frequency too clear, and it's
the palasanto actually is I think of it more as
sealing the space because it's a specific high frequency that
(13:33):
won't necessarily clear. Other than it's high frequency, like it
brings in more of a blessing, more of a seal
of the frequency I'm trying to hold and create here,
but to clear. It's like you know, people who would
sweep the dirt under the rug and then pretty rug
on top of it, you know, right, like the palasanta
(13:54):
would be the pretty rug on top of it. But
if you you know, have if it's still dirty, and
just so I have like negativity, trauma, spirit or energy
or you know, earth bound spirits underneath the rug that's
not really doing anybody any.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Good, correct, You're just hiding them.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Yeah, And so you want to use this age first
to clear and then to seal and bless the place
you would use the polo sent That's that's my that's
my usage in my experience with those plants with plant medicine.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
So mine too, by the way, because I used to
and will again. I think when we move is because
really can't move around this place right now, we've ship
packed everywhere. Is I used to. I used Paulo Santo
as a ritual. Every night. I would light because I
mean one stick would last me for a while, but
(14:45):
I would light the end of a stick and I
would actually walk. In this case, interestingly, it was clockwise,
not counterclockwise, because I was wanting to bring it in
and I would walk around our bedroom at night and
I would do a prayer that we had a RESTful sleep,
that everyone was taking care of, that we would wake
(15:06):
all together again and have another day together, and all
of that. And that was my nightly prayer that I
would do. And that was Paulo Santo. I loved it.
Sage that wasn't the purpose of sage was not that
for me, because I think what you said about locking
it in. And there's also something I think that with
the oils of the Polo Santo wood that is so
(15:31):
what what am I looking for?
Speaker 2 (15:32):
It's a high vibe.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
It's a high vibe, and it's very calming to me
because I think of the high vibe of it. I mean,
it has this it's a magnificent sensory experience. But to
also just feel it in your presence, there's definitely a
high vibe to it. So that's how I used it too,
and I will again do it. But I wanted to
(15:55):
quickly go back to stage two. Is so funny because
I totally forgot about this is when we actually bought
our house here. You know, listen, this is the land,
like I said, the land of sage is called the
land of enchantment. Everybody loves all the wuo woo shit like.
It is totally a good place to call home. And
(16:15):
the wife of the man that we bought the house from,
I guess we bought from her too, but she wasn't
a part of it. She went and cleared both structures.
So the main house by the way, I say main house,
don't be impressed, it's not very big, and the casita,
and so she did she did her own blessing in there,
and she left it for us in different rooms because
(16:38):
she was doing it as a gracious gratitude, making space
for Susanne and I to make it our own. That's
so beautiful. That's so beautiful, right, like it's such a
thing here. In fact, we even had like little welcoming
gifts from people that we had, you know, met early on,
and very common that people will give you. In facting
(17:00):
at it right now, you all can't see it, neither
can you. But I kept it because I want to
use it in our house when we move in. People
actually will give you bundles of this of sage as
a welcoming gift because of the community.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Right, you would normally smudge, right, It's.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Exactly right, So it's not an uncommon thing. And you know,
much like lindsay, these are white people that have white
women not named Karen that have given them to us
as well.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Beautiful, right, beautiful beautiful.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
So we're going to take a break and we'll be
right back and talk more about these beautiful, healing, powerful
verbs and welcome back, and we are going on to
part two of this conversation about cultural appropriation.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
You know, I love that she was so concerned about this.
I think it's actually really important. And so I'll do
a quick confession because you know, I haven't had to
use this as confessional in a while, but my confessional.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
I think it's been two episodes, but yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Yeh see, it's been a while to my point. You
just made my point, thank you very much. Honestly, when
for those that know, when I allegedly opened up a
portal extra house and Sherman Oaks and it was me
in my lab, Homer, he would walk away or walk
(18:35):
around the house or inside and outside the house, and
I was burning stage because I don't know what the
hell I had done. Really, I mean, you told me,
but you still don't know until you know, right, And
I had this like cute little kind of witches pot.
It was kind of fun. I think I bought it
at the Rose Bowl monthly, kind of like rummage sale
they'd have there. And I'm gonna, yeah, I guess what
(19:00):
made Yeah, that's probably the right thing that rummage sale.
Grandma showed up somehow or Leane just like came spouting
out my mouth, Uh fuck is wrong anyway, So I'll
confess I actually don't think that wherever I bought that
from was probably culturally appropriate. So I'm just gonna confess
(19:22):
that I don't think that I did that. And I
ended up having to buy in bulk, let's be honest,
because I had a lot of activity going on, and
I did actually find a seller. You know, it was
very reliant on Etsy back in the day.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
As we all know, I recall I should be an Etsy.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
And uh and have found uh some Native some Indigenous sellers.
Because let's be honest, and I want to be very
clear about this. Is much like other things in our world,
whether it be something like turkle is jewelry, right, these
are things that different tribes rely on to generate income.
(20:09):
And another thing that rely on is sage. So by
making sure that you buy it from the right people,
I think is probably the most important part. I don't
think you're appropriating the usage so much as it is
where you get it from.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Is that there, That's I think that's a really important component.
I think it's a really important component. And I would
also just correct myself because I was being flippant when
I said, you know, just because you saw it on TikTok.
There's a lot of good information on TikTok.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
You're so funny as long as we're confessing.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
But I'm like, you know, what I should I shouldn't
have said.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
That, but I do so funny. I do want to
think twice about it.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
But I was being funny, but the intention of how
you're using it matters. And you know, if you're trying
to show off to someone in what you know, like,
it matters. If you're trying to be a service, it
really matters. The energy you create, the wake of energy
(21:12):
you leave, the portal you've opened, like, it all matters.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
So yeah, and then I think that being mindful of
where you purchase it, So let's just address both of them.
So in terms of sage, there are tribes that most
definitely rely on selling. I mean, I again, I live
in this wonderland of incredible energy, incredible indigenous tribes. Most
(21:37):
of New Mexico I believe is actually Indian nation, and
we have Peblos. I mean, it's magical, right, and so
it's very easy for people like me to just go
down to the plaza and there are these magnificent indigenous
folks that are selling whether it be Turquoi's jewelry, things
(21:58):
like that, and they're also selling sage bunch. So to
be mindful about where you buy it, I think is critical.
I'd be careful of some of the crystal stores because
I don't believe that they are getting it from the
right plat I've seen it like I've seen cellars over
the years, and I know that it's not where it's
coming from, because sage can grow in a lot of
(22:18):
the Western States and they can just go out and
get it themselves and dry it and bundle it up.
But I wouldn't do that. So I think being mindful
about a tribe is important. And when it comes to
Polo Santo, it's interesting. You can only get Polo Santo
from Peru, right, You can't get it from the United States.
So and if you buy it, it is because the
(22:41):
Peruvians have actually harvested the dead Pollo Santo trees, at
least that's how they're supposed to do it. Is like
they don't harvest it. They don't actually harvest the wood
or the oil until the tree has died. Naturally, do
trees jump the plant before the soul of the tree
has of the planet, And that is when they are
(23:03):
allowed to actually go and harvest the wood. And if
they pull the the oils out, that's when they're allowed
to do it. So if you get a hold of
Paulo Santo, it only comes from the pruviance, right right,
no one else can do it, So it's kind of
automatically mindful because it only comes from one place. Is
(23:23):
that fair?
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Yep? Yep, okay, yep, okay, Well there's that.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
There's so I think the next time Lindsay or anybody
else deals with somebody who tries to shame you, because
I think sometimes people use cultural appropriation in an inappropriate way.
And I think that everything in the world, it can
somehow be used as a weapon. Right, there's a dark
and there's a light side to everything, and I think
(23:49):
some people can use cultural appropriation to try to throw
daggers at people. And as long as that you are
very clear with what it means and where you are
getting your sage from, you can say, hey, listen, I
only get it from the tribes because this is how
they make money.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Yeah, And I mean it could be her friend was
very well intended, or the woman that she was, you know,
went to work with or serve was well intended, and
it just came out a little awkward too, Like if
she as long as.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Oh, I'm so sorry, I wasn't judging that person. I
was just being I was being general about it.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
But I'm just saying she may have been just a
little awkward and said, hey, I love that you're concerned
about that. And this is a strong part of my
practice that I've used. I mean, when we do Athenis
magical secrets, we have little you know, just individual leafs
of sage that when whenever they come in the house
they smudge each other, right, because we're entering the priestess space.
(24:47):
You know.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
That's what Patricia did at the Crystal Matrix before class.
She had a giant, like iron cast thing I could
barely lift up, and she would she would be like, Okay,
you got to smudge yourself before you come in here.
And I mean full on. I smelled like I had
been and.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Like bathed in sage. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Yeah, everything smelled like smoke. And then, by the way,
if you find the right person, the right connection, you
can get some really sacred sage that I only still
have a little bit left. I've held onto it for
the longest time, and I got it from my friend Roxanne.
That was, I mean crazy powerful, Like there's levels y'all.
(25:30):
So yeah, if I find a really great place, I'll
I don't know, lindsay, I'll call you because I do
have your number, sister, But I just I don't I
think that if we can just handle things, like you said, Brenda,
with grace and as long as we're clear with what
(25:51):
we were doing. And I hate the fact, actually, Lindsay,
that you feel like you've had to kind of stop
this very important part of your practice because of the
questions of this cultural appropriation. Although I'm glad you're asking
it so we can help clarify for you so you
can get back to that really important piece of your practice.
(26:13):
And I hope we've answered those.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
No, you're doing great, Lindsay, and trust your instincts as always,
you're so dialed in, and you know, just trust it.
I've seen it in action. It's a beautiful, beautiful gift
and you get this.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Yeah, yeah, rock on, sister. I love this. And and
you know, if people have other questions, I'll tell you.
I'm just going to introduce another idea that I've had
some questions on and I want people to write us
and please ask us more. And that is actually the
ethical minding of crystals is one thing, but also the
phony stuff that has started to show up. Oh yeah,
(26:50):
I've read lots of articles lately about sometimes people are
selling plastic heavy plastic and calling go yes Sittrin is
one of the worst. Actually, oh yeah, absolutely and uh
or they'll they'll miss label things. I've dealt with this too,
where I went into a store this is in Los Angeles,
(27:11):
not obviously Patricia's place, and they were selling new miight
and I walked up to the person in the store
and I said, what is this and he goes, it's
new mic. I said, it's not. This is countertop. This
came from China. This is countertop. This is not new mic.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Whoa, that's There's it's so intense, it's so not okay.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Right, So there's a lot of this. A lot of
things are coming out. Like glass is another thing. There's
there's a lot of manufacturers in China that are making
like mold devite, it's green glass that they have molds for.
So there's a lot of crazy stuff going on out there.
So I'll pull that up. We'll make that another episode someday.
But there's just a lot of things, I think from
a spiritual standpoint that we all need to be clear on,
(27:58):
whether it's how do you use it, the cultural appropriation
pieces of it, and the legitimacy and a and authenticity
of things. So we'll keep going on this, So if
you guys have more questions about this, if we don't know,
we'll find out. And we'll also talk more about the
crystals at some point in the near future too.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
I have no words to say about that. I just
am blown away by that. So Lindsey, thank you. I
hope you know, just talking more about saging and clearing
and different practices of using smoke in your spiritual practice.
I hope it was interesting for everybody, So thanks for listening,
and remember our school is hard.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Without Paulo Santo Sage and the other Side.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Thanks y'all, Thanks everybody, Thank you for joining us. Everyone,
and a special thanks to our producer Joey Patt and
our executive producer Maya Cole Howard, who guides us while
we guide.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
You hit us up on Instagram at other Side Guides,
or shoot us a note at high Hi at Vibes
dot store.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
We want to know what you think, we want to
know what you know, and we want to hear your stories.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
And remember, our school is hard without the other Side.
Insider's Guide to the Other Side is a production of iHeartRadio.
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