Leslie Jones: How Milo Yiannopoulos Weaponized A Ghostbusters Remake

We're joined by Prop, host of Hood Politics, to discuss the targeted Twitter hate campaign led by Milo Yiannopoulos against comedian & SNL alum Leslie Jones, that stemmed from her casting in the 2016 Ghostbusters remake.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to another episode of Internet Hate Machine. I am
joined by my producer, Sophie Hey. Sophie heybrid It, and
we are so excited to be joined today by our
guests prop probably no PROP from his amazing podcast Hood
Politics or his amazing coffee company. Thank you so much
for being here. Dog. I can't wait to do this

(00:21):
and just be physically outraged by all this stuff. Y'all
gotta go through. Oh, you're about to be outraged. Before
we get into it, I have to ask you tweeted
about losing followers since must took over Twitter? What have you?
What has it been like to be on Twitter since
must took over? In your in your view, I mean honestly,
I was like, I don't want to get involved with

(00:42):
the like I don't want to feed I don't want
to feed it. So I was like, I honestly pulled
the like, well let's see, you know what I'm saying,
let me let me see what it is, and every
once in a while kind of go through my own
like sort of bought purging whatever right. But definitely, at
first I saw a complete surge of like porn bots,

(01:06):
and then a complete surge of like these like anybody's
got like an American flag and patriot in their bio.
Like I just had a surge of that, and I
was like, why are y'all here? Right? And then yeah,
and then I just started like just handful of day,
you know, saying. So I'm down like five followers, which
is fine, but it was more like, dude, I used

(01:27):
to lose followers because of like what I said, not
just like out of nowhere, like what is this about?
I wish I could earn my losing, you know what
I'm saying, But definitely like I haven't seen a lot
of the like upticking like hate and like vitriol. I
guess because I was already a public figure. So I
feel like I've already seen like I already went through

(01:48):
my fair share of that, you know what I'm saying.
So to me, I'm like, like when they talk about
like crime wave, I'm like, crime is not up. I
lived through l A in the nineties. This is fine, right,
So so for me, I'm like, oh baby, just saying nothing.
But I will say I have enjoyed all the like
fake or the Twitter blue stuff and like people like

(02:12):
paying for their verification and creating trolls and then realizing
now you could click it and it could say like
not this fool is actually verified, or be like not
that food paid for it, you know, but generally like
it's it's kind of been, except for just the losing
of followers. Like for me personally, it's kind of in
the same Yeah, yeah, it's been. It's been. It's such

(02:33):
a weird spot that we're in. I completely agree with you.
I've been seeing an uptick in horn and pytose scams.
One of my favorite podcasters, Lazy Got was was hit
by like a crypto scammer, and I think we're in
this no man's land right now where scams and pranks
and trolls have I think really been empowered and emboldened.

(02:57):
I don't necessarily see Elon Musk making it seriously, and
I think it's a it's a real problem. I think
it can really you know, open up the platform to
be mifused. He definitely has the like the way the
way I've been linking thinking about it is like this
fool is still a seventh grader, right and being like
I can jump off that roof and then like all

(03:18):
the homies being like, bro, you don't have to jump
off the roof that it's cool, Like why you feel
like you gotta do that? No, I could do it,
And the homes are like, all right, do it. You
know what I'm saying. Now that's full climbed on the
roof and it's like, oh shit, niggie, okay, do it
like you're gonna if you're gonna do it, do it,
you know what I'm saying, and him realizing like I
immediately read it's it's it's Ron Burgundy jumping into the

(03:40):
bear trap, you know what I'm saying, and being like,
I immediately regret this decision. And to me, it's like
I will say, my Twitter experience, maybe not my personal one,
but my like as a user have been the scamps
have been so funny to me, like seeing people like
all the other fake Elon Musk like accounts, the fake
Lebron James account and just and wondering how, Like I

(04:03):
think we talked about this before in the episode we
had with politics, Like if you would just take like
an extra second to like once you see the name
and the check and then just read the person's app
mentioned their actual handle, and you're like, oh, this is
a joke, you know, and just or like it'll be
it was like Lebron James with a Z at the end,

(04:24):
So I'm like, that's clearly not Lebron James. But people
don't do that though, time to do that. Yeah, And
I think where we're at right now is the funny
stories are what are getting pressed right now? Yeah, but right,
and that's what's that's what's you know, forward facing. But
in reality, like clearly security and safety or not priority.

(04:49):
And as we know from the show, the people that
are going to be affected from this most are marginalized people.
And uh, that ship stuck and and that's the it. Yeah,
that's that intersection man, right, Like like you said, it's
like like obviously this the show is about the experience
of like marginalized you know, specifically women of color, and

(05:10):
it's like of course on Mars List, but I'm also
not a woman of color, so I'm gonna have a
different experience. And I think that, yeah, like that that
it's important that you know, That's why I'm glad this
show is happening, you know what I mean, because it's
important to like, so yeah, it's perfect. Yeah, this may
mean my experience, Yeah, this may gonna be my experience

(05:32):
because I'm definitely like a lot of the stuff that
I did, like even you know, surviving my upbringing was
like I was very good at staying out of stuff.
Like I'm like, yeah, I just don't. I just stay
out of it unless I need to be in it,
you know what I'm saying, until like you know, somebody
turns turns to me, like even like you know, to
carry the metaphor like you know, if it's a if

(05:52):
it's a if it's a woman of color, like I'm
gonna stay out of it until she looks at me
like hey, youn say something. It's like, right, I'm gonna
break this nigger's jaw, like just you, I'm not gonna
move until you tell me. You know what I'm saying, Like,
if you tell me, then let's go. But if not,
I'm like, oh, she got it, you know what I'm saying,
Like I stat like I'm usually not worried, like oh
she got a she fing a drag y'all, you know.

(06:14):
And and and for me, it's like I'm I'm ready
for the show, which is what what which I love
about this Leslie Jones episode because I don't know if
we're not supposed to reveal that yet, but like I
was like in that hole. I remember that saga and
I was like, yeah, I was like she dragging them
and it was funny. I remember how it was weird

(06:36):
and random to me, where I was like I don't
know when it started, like how all this started or
why her. I was like did she do? Like why
are y'all this seems so it seems so out of
nowhere to me, like this is so random, and but
I also knew she was very funny. And for me,
I was like, she like, y'all picked on the wrong

(06:57):
person because I'm like, she forn a drag, y'all. And
to me, I was the fact that like she wasn't like, man,
I'm so sorry, Dave, Like why is everybody picking on me?
She was like nigga, your mama got funny feet, you
know what I'm saying. Like, and I was like, you know,
fuck you your head pointy, and I'm like she's I

(07:18):
was like to me, I was like, okay, y'all, look y'all,
y'all to poked the bull, you got the wrong one.
She not the one. And to me it was funny.
Well what was funny was her the way that she
was dragging them back. It wasn't funny what was happening
to her. But her answers were like, we Leslie Jones
is like one of the funniest people. She's one of

(07:39):
the She's just there. And I was like, I understand
what y'all problem with her is. She's hilarious, Like, but
what what's the problem. Okay, this is a perfect segue.
The problem this is her. I could not have set
the segway up better. So let's get into it. Okay.
So on the heels and our last few episodes, we

(08:00):
were talking about gamer Gate and all of these tensions
around marginalized folks. I guess I would say the perception
that there invading these spaces that have been traditionally thought
of as like very white and very well right video games, tech,
and film. So you have all of these like largely
white dudes who are frustrated and angry that they feel

(08:23):
like they're being kind of threatened in these spaces. Just
the idea of like someone who's on a white dude
entering these spaces and thing in these spaces. And so
enter one of our major players for this conversation, Steve Bannon.
I know, all right, how this starts at Steve Bannon.
It starts with Steve Bannon. We got, we got, we gotta.
You're probably thinking, like we're talking about Leslie Jones, where

(08:44):
I was trying at Steve Bannon. And it's because Steve
Bannon was an early figure who really saw what a
powerful force these frustrated, disaffected, you know, rangel threatened white
guys could be and he thinks, Wow, we need to
harness this and web and eyes and consolidate their political power.
So it sounds a little bit about why that is.

(09:04):
It's gonna get a little I'll breathe through this. It's
gonna get a little bit technical. I'm gonna warrn folks,
but I found this fascinating and if you let me,
I feel like we need this part bridget Like I
feel the entire technical timeline of this higher mess. Yeah, okay,
so let's do it. So you might be thinking, why
did Steve Bannon, like, why was he mixed up with

(09:24):
all of these male gamers. Well, it's because he saw
the power of these gamers firsthand himself. Before Bannon was
in the Trump White House or possibly maybe going to jail,
he was a successful Wall Street dude. In two thousand five,
Steve Bannon cooked up with a Hong Kong based startup
called Internet Gaming Entertainment or i g i GE was

(09:45):
his company that was making millions and millions of dollars
through selling virtual goods for real money within video games
like ever Test or World of Warcraft? Did you ever
play any of those games? Bro? I Once, once the
remotes went from like four to like eight, I was out,
literally literally just assume the dad responds from Prop on

(10:06):
certain things like getting at the getting When Prop is
like Yama said, out of this, I was like, okay, dad,
um yeah yeah, but yeah yeah, not for real. I
was like yeah, this game like once, it was like
you know, I checked out pretty early on because I
was like, man, it's too much, and because it was like, man,
I'm already into so many niches, Like I'm already like,

(10:30):
you know, neck deep in coffee, I'm neck deep in
hip hop, and especially at that time, I'm like, I
mean you the beat starts, I'll tell you what machine
they used, what side chain compression? Where this rapper from
you know, other side project. I was so deep into
a niche already that I was like, man, I got
time to learn it. Yeah, you don't need another rabbit hole.

(10:52):
So I was like, I can't keep up dog. Yeah.
So essentially what this company i g E. Was doing
is selling these like in game capes or wands or
tokens that would allow players to pay real money to
immediately level up within the game, rather than having to
work their way up to a certain level. So if
you if you ever played games that involve levels, some people,

(11:13):
you know, if you have money to spare but not
a lot of time, you might pay to just like
enter the game at a higher level. I G E.
Was not the first company to do this. It's actually
a common practice called gold farming, where low paid workers
in places like China will play these games like World
of Warcraft for hours to acquire what they call gold

(11:33):
or currency within the game and then sell it to
other players. So the problem with this is that it's
not totally it was at the time, it was not
totally legal. It was actually prohibited by the companies that
make the games, and so it was sort of in
this legal gray area. And Steve Bannon came on too
I G E. To try to turn this from you know,

(11:55):
a practice that existed in a legal gray area to
really legitimize it by selling the companies that made these
video games on the idea that players would be willing
to spend like real money to level up in their
game play in this way. Um, I know we're talking
about like gaming and video games, but this ship was
like big business bandoned that Holman Sex to invest ten

(12:17):
million dollars in the company. I g e. No, I'm
like this. This the type of stuff that like also
turned me off with video games. I was like, wait,
I gotta I need to buy this sword. I'm good
exactly like I have to spend my real money on
a virtual sword. And the kind of game is this?
The game don't come with what I need? I gotta
buy this now, I'm good totally. I mean you're you're

(12:41):
not alone in this. And so KA head as game
game like what kind of what what out of the
product can you buy and just comes not put together
like with not every like what I don't have everything
I need even though I bought it. Now I'm good anyway,
going when you go to the i KA show room
and you see the dresser I'll put the other and
then you buy it and it comes in that flat

(13:02):
box like, wait a minute, wait a minute, what is this?
I bought a couch, what is this box? So Steve Bannon,
he was really brought on to be the adult in
the room in this video game company, right, he was
gonna be the money man who was gonna get all
this sweet sweet goldman SAX financing, and also get the

(13:24):
companies that made video games on board with the idea
that they should be in the business of selling this
this this pay to play kind of scheme with gaming.
His first big fish was a Blizzard. They make the
game World of Warcraft and back in two thousand and five, Like,
this was the game I was in college in two
thousand and five, Like I played it a little bit
because my then boyfriend whole a whole long story. But

(13:47):
then boyfriend was obsessed with it, and I was like, oh,
learn to play this game. So why can you know,
connect with him. I'm not surprised that of all the
video game companies to come into the story that it's
Blizzard because Blizzard has Activision. Blizzard has so many lawsuits.
Oh my god, many lawsuits. Yeah, so many, Like still

(14:09):
like still this is still happening. This is like where
you go to like a place, you know what I'm saying,
A whole bunch of laptops in your computers and you're
playing World War crap. I remember walking in and being like, yeah,
I'm good, just like I'm just here for the coffee.
But I'm not trying to hang out with you. I
got coffee. I am sad to say that. You just

(14:31):
described of an environment where I spent an inordinate amount
of time in college, not because I particularly enjoyed it
or wanted to be there, because I thought that's how
you got like dudes to be interested in you. I'm
really enjoying being at this Land party. I don't want
to be home watching Real World and listening to my carry.
I'm having a great time. I know it wasn't It

(14:55):
wasn't hang with us, man, it wasn't great. You're come
to this open Michael. So, Steve Bannon is his big
fish as Blizzard. He's hoping that he can get these
executives on board, and in fact it was quite the opposite.
Blizzard executives were not on board with this idea of
having users pay to level up within the games, and

(15:18):
in May of two thousand and six, they actually cracked
down on that scheme, calling it cheating, and they put
out a press release saying that they had banned over
thirty accounts on their games who were engaging in that practice.
I G E and their suppliers suffered a huge loss
after this crackdown. He was losing five thousand dollars a month,
and so this was like a huge like they were

(15:38):
hemorrhaging money because of this this crackdown. And something to
know about gamers is that they really hated this pay
to play scheme. Gamers got organized, they you know, ended
up delivering another big blow to I g S business.
World of Warcraft users actually sued I G E. In
two thousand and seven, a gamer in Florida lodged a

(16:00):
class action lawsuit against I G E. M. According to
The Washington Post, the lawsuit alleged that I G E
had received tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions
of dollars selling the World of Warcraft of virtual property
or currency generated by cheap labor in third world countries. So,
you know, and like what's interesting about this is that

(16:20):
I G E settled that lawsuit, and as part of
that settlement, they promised not to sell virtual currency in
World of Warcraft for five years. Uh Bannon then becomes
the CEO of I G E. In two thousand seven.
He moves the company kind of away from this gold
farming scheme to focus on things like gaming chat rooms
and gaming websites, some of which he had acquired during

(16:43):
this like gold farming operation. These in these chat rooms
full of gamers, full of people who were passionate about gaming.
They were super super vocal about how much they hated
I G e. S pay to play schemes. You know,
they were Something to know about gamers is that they
kind of consider themselves to be kind of I guess

(17:04):
values based, you know. They felt that it was unfair
and that like this scheme went against what they saw
is the egalitarian spirit of gameplay. They were fervent. They
used these websites that Bannon was running to organize and
the pressure companies who were operating these these games not
to partner with I G. E. And Steve Bannon. He

(17:25):
saw all of this. He saw the ways that these
gamers hate and pay to play. They were successful in
rallying each other to keep you know, gold farming out
of their games. He saw firsthand that gamers were this big, powerful,
passionate community that would really dig in around an issue
that they felt highlighted their shared values. In a book

(17:46):
called The Devil's Bargain by journalist Joshua Green about the
rise of Bannon and Trump's presidency, Bannon said, these guys,
these rootless white males, had monster power. So he definitely
early on was like, wait, these gamers, they're serious, yo.
This is like two things I camp on. One is
like I still don't understand the five year number where
it's like we'll stop selling for five years. It's like, no, fam, no,

(18:10):
it's you can't do this. What do you mean Okay, well, okay,
we'll chill for a little bit. Like, no, fam, you
can't know. Okay, we'll chill. We'll chill, no problem. So
I'm like, where did this five year number come from?
That you just agree to stop doing something illegal just
for five years. And then secondly, um, it's definitely like
an interesting like things to witness, like the birth of

(18:31):
a villain. It's like when you're like, oh, where this was?
When this is like attack of the Clones. It's like
when the sixth when the when the dark Side switches
and all the clones become evil. Like I was like,
Oh my god, this is it. You just turned them
into stormtroopers. This is the moment. Oh my god. That's
such a So that's such a good analogy for where

(18:53):
this conversation goes, because it's so it's so true how
you can take this disaffected group and really successfully radicalized
them and turned them against a common enemy, even if
it's not necessarily a common enemy that they had before
all of that. No, you just turn them in stormtroopers. Yeah,

(19:14):
such a such a good comparison. And so Bannon takes
over at bright Burt News in twelve. If you don't
know what Brightburt News is, it's an extremist right wing
media site that Steve Bannon himself once declared as quote
the platform for the alt right. And I really have
to give it to Steve Bannon here because he's very savvy.
He sees the potential in building out Bright Bart into
this digitally savvy, plugged in outlet with a young audience base.

(19:38):
And he also sees huge potential in marrying what he
learned during his time running gaming chat rooms with i
GE with this toxic white supremacist ideology. He's like, wait
a minute. If I combine these things, my power like
this will be very powerful, and he was right, yeah,
he yeah. Another thing, like if I'm gonna give them
any credit, is the fact that like he's not, He's

(20:01):
very upfront of what he's doing. He's like, not easier,
this is all right. These are white boys, and I
can feed them racism and they'll make us they'll give
us power. Ye, that's what I'm doing exactly. It's very
open about it. But he's like, yeah, that's what I'm doing.
So this is where another major player in the harassment
of Leslie Jones emerges. Milo your novelist. We've talked about

(20:23):
this a little bit, Sophie and I um. On October,
ripe Bart launches a tech vertical that will focus on
Internet culture and video games, and Steve Bannon recruits Milo
to run it as tech editor. Most of the articles
like It's funny because I when I was doing the
research for this, I was like, what did Milo have

(20:43):
to do with tech? But actually I was said, correct,
he actually did have a background as a tech journalist
before all of this. The website that Milo founded, called
The Colonel, was actually acquired by the Tech website The
Daily Dot, so he he actually did have some like
bona fides in actual tech journalism. However, when he got
to Bripe bart I think that's calling the stuff that

(21:07):
he was writing tech is a little generous because it's
all kind of framed as these conversations. It's all very reactionary, right,
and so all the articles that he writes on Ripe
bart On this tech article are not really about tech
so insomuch as they're about all of these different ways
that white men are being pushed out of technology and
video games and culture, which is just nonsense. Like every

(21:30):
article is about, you know, making fun of feminists or
women or fat people. Like it's all very reactionary. But
I guess like that's the kind of tech storytelling that
that Milo and Steve Bannon were interested in because they
know this is going to get these young white males

(21:50):
round up at works. So Milo has a lot of
appeal with exactly the kind of young men that Bannon
is looking to port as a resource and weaponize. My
loom is young, he's active online, and most importantly, he
revels in being offensive and insulting people. And I have
to say, just like a lot of gamers, like if
you look like video games. I'm not saying all gamers

(22:12):
do this by a wide margin, but that's certainly one
of the cultural nuances of gaming, is like, you know,
calling each other slurs and talking shit right like, and
that's part of it. I could see like gamers being
into him, but I don't think like Milo probably doesn't
give a shit about gamers. I was like, yeah, no,

(22:33):
I can't see him. Yeah, He's like exactly so you're
you're exactly right, Mileo doesn't give a shit about gamers
or any of this stuff. The same year that Milo
starts up at right Bart, we see the rise of
another big figure who loves being online and revels in
being Can you guess who I'm talking about? Donald Trump?

(22:57):
Trump announces his bid for presidency. The same year editor thanks, Hey,
my my socials are I'm I'm done. I'm done. I'm not. Yeah,
So Bannon told Joshua Green, the journalist who wrote that
book about his rise, quote, I realized Milo could connect

(23:19):
with these kids right away. You can activate that army
they come in through gamer Gate or whatever else, and
then they can get turned onto politics and Trump. So,
as Sophie said, Milo does not give a ship about
gamers or video games, and actually, early on in his
career he sent a lot of time mocking video gamers
and belittling them. But Milo does understand that gamers are

(23:41):
an easily riled up, easily stoked audience, and that he
can stoke their sense of victimization around things like gamber
Gate or threats posed by like woke PC culture and
basically get them on board for anything. I'm still trying
to like figure out how they figured out to go
from games to racism to voting Trump in the office

(24:06):
that thread, although it's now in hindsight you're like, oh, yeah,
you know what I'm saying, but totally how did you?
Because they saw white male rage and like mass because
because I'm just like nerds, Yeah, I'm saying I like, like,
you know, in the most like you know, if I'm

(24:29):
going to be as basic as possible, I'm like, are
you thinking like and the nerds is really riled up?
I bet you they can make somebody president like how
you Yes? Basically yes, yeah, And again I have to
really give it to Steve Bannon because I don't think
a lot of people that like who like it really

(24:50):
does take a kind of savvy guy to see that.
And so, as you said, you know, when you look
at Milo's writing, it kind of becomes clear how he
was doing this um dey not really being involved in
gamer Gate. Milo writes about it constantly, and he really
frames it as these PC leftist culture police attacking these poor,
powerless gamers who don't have any social capital. But paradoxically,

(25:13):
his writing also really flatters gamers in these like over
the top ways. He writes constantly about how they are,
you know, have this unchecked, unseen power that only he sees.
I went back and read a functon of Milo's writing,
which was not not so pleasant but not fun at all.
But you really, the radicalization tactics are super clear. He

(25:34):
speaks to their grievances of this audience and then connects
those grievances to these big politicized boogeyman and tells them, Oh, Trump,
who Milo refers to as Daddy pretty often. I know
it's bad, it's bad. He tells them Trump is the
answer to their disaffection. And you know, Trump probably doesn't

(25:56):
give a ship about gaming or game journalists him. But
you know, I'm like a mama's He didn't even know
what does having Exactly yeah, anyway, exactly so Trump he
doesn't care about ethics and gaming journalism or gaming or
any of that, but he does often attack the you know,
crooked media. He does talk about jailing journalists. So you

(26:17):
can sort of see how these grievances that these gamers
had are kind of being stoked and then replaced by
these other political grievances. Let's take a look at him.
Of Milo's writing from Ripe Art in twenty fourteen, right
after a gamer Gate, he wrote quote, it's easy to

(26:39):
mock video gamers as dorky loaners in yellowing underpants. Indeed,
in previous columns, I've done it myself. But the more
you learn about the latest scandal in the games industry,
the more us heart to sympathize with the frustrated male stereotype,
because an army of sociopathic feminist programmers and campaigners, abetted
by achingly politically correct American tech bloggers, are terrorizing the

(27:01):
entire community, lying, bullying, and manipulating their way around the
Internet for profit and attention. So you can sort of
see how like he is able to stoke these concerns
and then politicize them in like a very particular way.
He goes on to say, quote, gamers should concentrate on
the very real concerns they have had for a decade

(27:21):
with a press that swamped with the discredited far left
ideology and unintelligent, poorly trained writers refuses to tell basic truths.
So you can sort of see how even if you
were a video gamer who had some grievances with the
gaming space, what he's saying is like, you're mad about
gaming and also the far left and also democrats and

(27:42):
also what first of all, what a great writer, which
is what part is what sucks about. It's like he's
actually a good writer. But like, but yeah, that move
of like man, it's like it's to me, it's like
mass about a hustle from a mile away when somebody's like, yeah,
that's crazy, man. How do they how do they make
fun of y'all? Like, you know, yeah, Dode, they do
be making fun of us. May think you just you know,

(28:04):
you just know nothing. This and this and this and
you know what, you know, you're trying to open up
the book. You want to talk about the game. They're
talking about something else. It's like yeah, man, like I'm
more interested in the game, and it's like, yeah, it's
because you know, and we know we hate to woke
left that be doing that to you. And you're like, wait,
wait a minute, wait, that's what we're mad about, Like okay, yeah,
that's what What's what we're mad about? And and like,

(28:26):
I guess I'm just putting myself in the shoes of
a person who may it far off it is, but
like that first few times you read it, you was like, what,
that's what we're mad about, and then after a while
you're like, oh, yeah, yeah, that's what we're mad about.
It's that you know what I'm saying, because you started
off with stuff that I actually am mad about, which
is like yeah, man, exactly. Yeah. It's such an effective

(28:46):
radicalization tactic. And honestly, Milo basically says as much in
one PC Rights Women and you won't hear this anywhere
else are screwing up the Internet for men by invading
every space we have online and ruining it with their
engine seeking and the needy, demanding, touchy feely form of
modern feminism that quickly comes into conflict with men's natural

(29:06):
tendency to be boisterous, confrontational and delightfully autistic. And so
you really exactly what you said, prop he. He really
is connecting these men in their feelings around gaming to
be these broader political grievances. So it's not just about
gaming journalism, even even that is like dubious, but it's
also about you know, hating leftists and the media and

(29:30):
institutions and telling these people like you are being bullied
and ignored and attacked by the culture. And it really
creates the situation where these spaces, you know, gaming culture
film are turned into a battlefield like like a whereby
Milo is kind of selling these men on the idea
that resisting kind of social justice warriors and taking back

(29:52):
video games and taking back tech spaces and taking that
film is a kind of activism in and of itself. Yeah,
you're speaking their language but in a weird way and
then twisting the same words and to mean something else.
And all of a sudden, it's like, now we're so
far down the road. It's like, well, now I'm here,
I guess I do believe this stuff, man that Yeah,
this is so sinister, dude, Like and again it's like,

(30:15):
first of all, these kids ain't victims number one. You
know what I'm saying, And they are you know what
I mean, they've been weaponized, you know what I'm saying.
But it's like my my brain goes to a place
to where it's like, I don't know if you had
the sort of like socio cultural just societal engineering and

(30:37):
experiences to know when you're being swindled, you know what
I'm saying, to be able to step back and be like,
hold on, man, speak for yourself. Holmy, that I look,
that's that ship. You won't. That's not what I'm all like,
you know what I'm saying, Like and and I feel
like that whether I don't know street smarts, whatever it is,
it's just like I know how to be like hold up, now,
speak for yourself. You know what I'm saying, Like wait, nah, Holmie,

(30:59):
that not why I'm here. You know what I'm saying, Like,
I mean, I like the game, but like, no, that's
not why I'm here. You know what I'm saying. Like
walking the club, it's done club right? You like this music? Yeah,
we've been get funked up. Could you know what I'm saying, Hey,
we're gonna smash a thousand girls, and it's like whoa, whoa, whoa,
Wait a minute, whoa. I'm just you know what I'm saying, Like, Man,
I'm gonna get a a little bit of honey and

(31:21):
listen to some music like that ship you all, that's
your that's your problem, you know what I'm saying. But
like maybe it's I'm like and I'm I'm trying to say,
like maybe they didn't have that experience, you know what
I'm saying, to be able to like know when this
is happening to you to stop and be like hold
up because like that wait, no, that's you. You speak
for yourself, homie, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, that's

(31:43):
such a good point. I think it's very easy to
get sucked in when someone is it's like flattering you,
telling you that you are you know, you have values
that other people don't have, and you don't anyone get Yeah,
but you don't only want to say that nobody else
is validating you exactly. And I think it speaks to

(32:06):
this sort of intoxicating power of feeling seen. I think
that also utilizes this very well of when you take
people who you know genuine or not feel unseen, feel unheard,
whether or not that that actually is true, because I
would argue that, like he did that with white people,
and it's like, well, what society are you living in

(32:26):
where white people are like unseen and unheard? Not a right,
but but the power. I think that when you take
people who feel unseen whether they really are not, and
make them feel seen, I think that can be a
really intoxicating thing. And if you don't, yeah, if you
don't know what to look out for, you can really
get people on board with stuff. I'm sorry to say

(32:50):
that very easily. Yeah, So this is where Leslie Jones
comes in. You know, Milo and Steve Bannon have have
made it so that take back these spaces, taking back
video games and movies and all of that. That is
a that feels like a form of activism. So if
folks don't know who Leslie Jones is, first of all,
you should because she's hysterical. She is a comedian, probably

(33:13):
best known for her time on Saturday Night Live. This
is not really related to the story, but I just
want to include it. Leslie Jones she has a very
interesting educational background. She went to Chapman University on a
basketball scholarship until the team's coach left to go to
Colorado State, and she liked this coach so much that
she followed him and transferred there. While yeah, I think

(33:33):
that's I don't know why. I was like, oh, well,
that's that. She was like, oh, I'll just come with him.
While she was at college, she worked as a DJ
and R campus radio station and side notes. So today
I liked that, and she, you know, she bounced around majors,
and her majors included accounting, pre law, and computer science,
and so I don't know, I wanted to include that

(33:54):
because I think it speaks to the kind of dynamic person.
She's actually interesting. Yeah. Back in the like, Leslie Jones
was sort of one of those kind of I guess
i'll say good at Twitter celebrities right, Like, she was
one of those celebrities that when she tweeted, people paid attention,
and she generated a lot of goodwill for the platform

(34:17):
um and really showed like how the platform could be
used in these fun and new ways. During the Olympics,
she was known for live tweeting the events and like
posting her reactions and everybody loved this. Hupping and post
wrote an article call it saying watching Leslie Jones watched
the Olympics is better than the actual Olympics, so she
was beloved. Yeah, I followed her because she was Yeah.

(34:41):
Because of that, I was like, that was when live
tweeting was something that we enjoyed. So I'm like, dude,
she's the best at it, because I'll be like, um, yeah,
I'm watching It felt like he was like out of
barbecue withter, you know, it was so fun. Yeah. So
in short, Leslie is just doing her thing, minding her
business and her own damn business, and everyone loves her, right,

(35:02):
She's everyone loves her, So it's not like she's like
doing anything wrong other than existing and minding her business.
In director Paul Fage announced that he's going to be
directing a reboot of the movie Ghostbusters. Sonny initially wanted
to do a sequel, but Bill Murray wasn't interested and
Harold Rames had passed away, so they ended up doing
a reboot with four female leads, Kristin Wig, Melissa McCarthy,

(35:25):
Kate McKinnon, and Leslie Jones. Now, almost as soon as
this is announced, there is backlash. The trailer for the
Ghostbusters reboot became the most disliked trailer in the history
of YouTube. The rate of dislike is remarkable. An article
on screen Crush breaks it down how it ranked among
other hated videos on YouTube. The number one hated video

(35:47):
on YouTube at the time was Justin Bieber's video for
the song Baby, which had six million thumbs down, and
the Ghostbusters trailer. When you compare it to other disliked
videos from the platform, it's remarkable in that it has
a high ratio of dislikes. The trailer had five and
seven thousand six dislikes on just twenty eight point seven

(36:08):
million views, So that's a staggering fifty six to one
ratio in terms of dislikes per view. So you kind
of get a sense that, like, it's not just that
people are disliking it, they are disliking it at a
highly disproportionate rate compared to other videos that people don't like.
This is not an organic thing. People are definitely gamifying
hate watching the trailer by vote brigading. This could honestly

(36:31):
be its own episode, but pbs that are really interesting.
Interview with The Daily Dots managing editor Austin Powell, who
describes vote brigading as overwhelming and manipulating rather rudimentary online
systems to influence or disrupt public perception. So basically places
like Reddit and four chan and other right circles are
that are aggressively masculine. We're really down voting anything that

(36:54):
had a viewpoint that could be linked to like their ideology.
And so because of the way that these platforms exist,
it's not always easy to say, you know, where is
this Where is this inorganic hate coming from? You can't
always tell the source, but the numbers make it clear
that this is not you know less, more people are
disliking this video than are watching the video, So something

(37:17):
weird is going on with how people are responding to it. Yeah,
there's definitely like the knee jerk like where all these
weirdos come in of like when you just slightly change
something that doesn't remind them of the nostalgia that they're from,
it's like, oh sucks, you ruined it. You know. So, like, yeah,
people arguing that like Middle Earth shouldn't have black people,

(37:40):
like what the Middle Art is not a real place?
Number one, you know what I'm saying? And then who
I forget homeboy, but he's he's the one that like
makes me laugh the most homies, like, well, scientifically speaking,
you know, a mermaid would not have a black skin
because she lived on the bottom of them. Like did
you just start this sentence about a mermaid with Scientifically speaking?

(38:01):
I believe that was Ben Shapiro, who was really you know,
it's so funny. These people are like like, oh, snowflakes,
blah blah blah, and then it's like a black mermaid
and it's like, yeah, but we're the ones. But we're
the ones fragile, right, like we don't want okay word, yeah,
we're we're we're the snowflakes. Yeah you're mad. Okay, you're
mad that Game of Thrones got black people. But I'm like,

(38:23):
and that's unrealistic, like the dragons Matt did the Like
scientifically speaking, I was like, bro, I was supposed to
take you serious. How can anyone take you serious after this?
What is you mad about? So like, so I say
that to say, okay, you've turned the Ghostbusters into girls.

(38:43):
Well sucks just supposed to be Okay, It's like all right,
you're all right, all right, let it go, okay stupid,
Now go watch the movie because it's actually very funny
and all four of those women are hilarious, and you
know they're hilarious, Like, so like, relax, Okay, you got
it out, you got it's not exactly what you remember. Sorry,

(39:03):
you know what I'm saying. Now, Now let's enjoy it.
That's what I thought was going to happen. You know,
I will never understand. So like with the Ghost, but
with with any reboot, really it's not like they're making
it illegal to own the original. So if you're like, oh,
I was like very into the original, I don't like
this reboot, that's fine. They're not there. You can still
just watch the original. It's not going anywhere this because

(39:24):
this because they've added a reboot or be make or
they've made a Black Mermaid or whatever, nobody is forcing
you to watch it. And you're the thing that you
loved isn't going anywhere, Like what are you so upset about? Yeah?
What's the And it's like, okay, what's your percentage of
the shareholding of that movie? Right in the zero point
zero zero? What the hell? You care? What's this doing

(39:47):
for you? You know what I'm saying, Like, are you serious? Fan? You? You? You? You?
You this route up over something you don't own all right, yeah,
and enters the chat next on this. Oh my god,

(40:08):
I hate I hate to say it, but you did
not just put this man on my screen right now.
Even Trump got in the mix. This is the weirdest video. Yeah,
play that. It's the weirdest thing. Oh I see the
hashtags already. Okay, they're remaking Indiana Jones without Harrison Ford.
You can't do that, and now they're making Ghostbusters with

(40:28):
only women. What's going on? It looked like somebody told
him to say that. Why is he yelling? Why is
he yelling? It's so weird? And the video stops where
he's just like, what's going on? Time? They're remaking Indiana
Jones without Harrison Ford. You can't do that, And now
they're making Ghostbusters with only women. What's going on? Oh

(40:53):
my god, that's so weird. So like, man, what the
hell are you talking? What this is? That? Look, it's
it's that same energy that like, I mean, it's not
the same, but it's like you go go to like Budapest,
Hawaii and be like, hey, where can we get a
hot dog? It sucks hot dogs. It's like, I'm sorry,

(41:14):
it's not exactly like the place you left. The hell
are you talking about? Fam It's a different it's what
percentage of what percentage of Indiana Jones do you own?
It's so strange. So obviously Ghostbusters the reboot really tapped
into all of these hot button issues around race and
gender that movements like Gamergate had exposed and inflamed. And

(41:38):
what's interesting is that not everybody didn't like Not everybody
didn't like the reboot of Ghostbusters because it was like
they were being anti woke. Some people thought the jokes
were bad, some people thought it was you know, they
didn't like that it was a remake. Some people didn't
like Leslie Jones's character, some people just don't like reboots. Whatever.
But the issue is that when bad actors and extremists

(42:01):
hijacked these conversations because they want to grind a political acts,
it creates a situation where waiting into it at all
makes people feel like they have to pick sides because
it becomes so charged, right, and so you either have
to hate the movie for being like a woke PC
remake or you feel like you need to defend it
up against these like racist, sexist attacks. And so folks

(42:22):
who are you know, maybe just want to like watch
the movie and not necessarily have this kind of like
a weighty opinion about it. They're completely drowned out. And
people who you know, just want to talk about this
movie on its merits, they are also drowned out, and
you know, it creates this thing where the conversation turns
into this highly charged proxy for culture wars. I think

(42:44):
I remember. I think it was Roxanne Gay tweeted like
I'm gonna buy a hundred tickets to this movie because
just to support it, because it's being attacked, and it
creates a situation where just supporting or not supporting a
movie is seen as a kind of activism or a statement,
which I just hate so much. Yeah that's the Yeah,
so like that, yeah, getting it. I remember, I remember
all this happening, and I remember being like again, like faminists,

(43:08):
it's a movie, like it's a movie about catching ghosts
with like eo plasm, Like y'all like we what are
we talking about? Like in okay, Like I'm just like yeah,
I'm like I just want to see it because I
think they I think they're funny, Like I think all
four of those women are funny. You know what I'm saying?

(43:30):
And Ghostbusters was funny because all four of those dudes
were funny. That's the only reason, Like I'm and I
was a baby and Bobby Brown was in Ghostbusters too,
so I wanted to see. So I'm like, I don't
understand this when I'm like, when the last time you
talked about Ghostbusters before you heard that this was coming,
Like you don't, well, you've gotten pared from now, you've

(43:51):
got some. You got some like hitting the room in here,
where you got where the ship mean that much? You like,
you don't even care that much? Right, And it to me,
it was like what you're probably gonna get to is
like and why y'are singling out leslie so much? Like
why you know exactly why you know what I'm saying.
And it's like and even on top of that, I'm like, because, Okay,
not only do she like you know, she's the you know,

(44:14):
she's uh part of the season their food club, you
know what I'm saying, who actually washed their legs? You
know what I'm saying, Like, not only is she a
part of that, but at the same time, like, Okay,
I'm sorry, she don't look like Carrie Washington. What I'm saying,
she won't you know what I'm saying, So she don't
look like Beyonce, because I'm like, okay, she looked like Beyonce.
Would this be a whole day? Would this be a
different situation? You feel me like? And that to me

(44:36):
was like even more infuriating as to like why y'all
going after her, because it's like, already know why you're
going after but now now I really know why you're
going after Yeah, you put that so well, and she
will get to it later, but like she acknowledges this,
Like I feel like when these attacks happened, because when
you attack black women, you don't want to be the

(44:59):
per sin who is talking about it, what is happening
publicly or loudly or vocally, right, And so because that
creates a situation where it's like, oh, well, maybe she
was being aggressive, Like maybe she like it's just so
hard to talk about these things and so often even
like I think that as a society, we're more comfortable

(45:20):
talking about racism against black folks. I think the conversation
that can be not we're not super comfortable within I
think that we're more comfortable with that than the conversation
of like it's also because I'm a black woman who
has dark skin, So I think it's I think it's
not just racism, it's colorism as well. And I think
that that conversation is like harder to have and people

(45:42):
are less willing to have that conversation openly, absolutely and
just doesn't fit like traditional beauty standards, even because like Loupete,
Loupete is dark exactly, she's gorgeous, you know what I mean.
So I'm like, Okay, so there's a lot going on
here that you're not willing to say. You feel me,
it's a lot of unsaid stuff happening that we're really

(46:04):
invested in just pretending is not happening well while we
could all see it and feel it happening. So on Breitbart,
Milo published a review of Ghostbusters, and I don't think
it's a surprise to anyone that it's clear that this
review is not just interested in getting into the merits
of the film. A couple of standout lines. He writes,
the spattering of negative and lukewarm reviews that are now

(46:25):
piling up is brave for the leftist establishment media. These
writers are risking being labeled as sexist bigots, A fate
worse for a liberal than running out of Keen Waugh
and hummus while your vegan boyfriend is staying over. I
used to think he was a good writer ten minutes ago. Ian, Yeah, this,
this review keep him for him, A little phoned in,
a little um. He goes on to say, um. But

(46:49):
most of the press realizes that whatever shreds of credibility
it has left would be utterly lost by giving this
film and unqualifiedly positive review. He singles out Leslie Jones's character, Patty.
He says, Patty is the worst of the lot. The
actress is spectacularly unappealing, even relative to the rest of
the odious cast. But it's her flat as a pancake
black styling. So I thought to have irritated the social

(47:10):
justice warriors. I don't get offended by such things, but
they should. And so all of the hate that is
being directed at the film to all of the leads,
it's so much worse for Leslie, and that is to
be expected. The research is super clear that black women
disproportionately are targeted for abuse online when compared to their
white counterparts. Uh, and Leslie is is really getting it,

(47:34):
like she's not like the rest of the folks in
the film are not getting it as vocally as she is.
Um and so Leslie Jones, you know, she is a
Twitter super user, and so she that part of that
is like replying to tweets, engaging with tweets. I remember
seeing this unfold. She got like a few critical tweets

(47:54):
about Ghostbusters that were pretty run of the mill, people
saying like, oh, I didn't like this movie. I didn't
think you were funny. There's a black woman who tells her,
I thought that Sherry Shephard or Lonnie Love would have
been better in this movie than you were. So like
not not nice, but they're not, you know, it's just
like to be expected exactly, Like they're all within the

(48:15):
scope of like what you would expect if you're a
public figure who's put out a movie. Um, and it's not.
It's not like Leslie Jones is falling apart and wizering
at this criticism. She's engaging with it. She's replying like
she's it's fine. And then Milo retweets Leslie complaining about
people not liking the movie. He retweets it with if
at first you don't succeed because your work is terrible.

(48:36):
Play the victim. Everyone gets hate mail for fox sake.
He follows it up with Ghostbusters is doing so badly
that they've employed Leslie Jones to play the victim on Twitter.
And this is all a real callback to his style
of writing on Breitbart that he spent years beating the
drum around this idea that it is men who are

(48:56):
being oppressed by women, and that women play the victim
for attention or for cloud and when they do, the corrupt,
biased media rewards them from it. And he's been spending
all of his time like beating that drum and seating
that as a narrative in his writing to these like
disaffected men that he's been according and talking about how
this sort of goes against the idea of quote meritocracy

(49:19):
that Milo has been so long telling gamers that they
value more than others. Oh my god, So it gets worse.
Milo then retweets completely fake doctor tweets that appear to
show Leslie saying racist and anti Semitic things. Um, these
are not her, Like she's this is like several fake tweets.

(49:42):
Then she blocks him. When she blocks him, Milo tweets
rejected by another black dude and shows the screenshot of
the block screen. So at this point the tenor of
the criticism clearly changed, and it goes from run of
the mill, like I don't like this movie. Two things
like her website being hacked and having pictures of her

(50:03):
driver's license and passports published to her website, ex iplicit
personal photos of her that were stolen posted to her website,
which by the way, is a sex crime um and
then pictures of her on her website being like her
head being replaced with the gorilla harambe. And so this
is not criticism, you know, this is not It's too

(50:25):
way too far. So she tweets, I have been called apes,
sent pictures of asses, even got a picture with siemen
on my face. I'm trying to figure out what human means.
I'm out. I feel like I'm at a personal hell.
I didn't do anything to deserve this. It's just too much.
It shouldn't be like this. So hurt right now. And
so it's clear that when this was just run of
the mill movie criticism, Leslie probably didn't like it, but

(50:46):
she was engaging with it. And then Milo completely changed
the tenor of those interactions by introducing these inflammatory racist,
fake tweets and racializing the conversation. Ye see, this is
the part that like, this is why maybe in the
beginning I may have spoke out it because I didn't
know the rest of this. I just saw her cracking

(51:07):
jokes with people, you know what I'm saying, and I
was like, oh, she's funny, dude, she got it. Like
I don't remember the rest of audience. I didn't realize
all this other stuff happened. Dang. So in the in
the beginning, when it was just you know, I think
Lonnie Love would be funnier like she like she was
like clapping back, and it was it seemed like it
was all in good fun. But the way that Milo

(51:30):
entered the conversation and changed the tenor and like turned
the temperature up and made it so racialized, all of
that like back and forth that she was engaging in
took a very different turn. And this is all outlined
and a piece that Milo wrote on Breitbart where he
essentially blames Leslie for her own harassment because she responded
to it, and he frames what is happening as regular

(51:52):
people not being able to criticize the elites. He writes,
in the words of a man who thoroughly triggered Leslie
Jones to express different opinions from the elite is the
real sin in this story. But when you look back
at his tweets, he's not expressing a different opinion than
Leslie Jones. He's not like criticizing her skills as an actor.
He's calling her a man and spreading doctor tweets that

(52:13):
one of which purports to show her calling the executives
at Sony the company, that she had just made a
movie for a slur for Jewish people. Like, that's not
a difference of opinion. That's a very different thing. And
you know what's funny is that even per Milo's own
rundown of the situation, he himself points out that Leslie

(52:34):
was just fine when the conversation was just legitimately criticism.
When the tenor of the conversation changed, she obviously like, like,
that was a different situation. And so for all of
his you know, going on and on about free speech,
it was Milo who came in and stifled the legitimate
criticism of the film. Leslie Jones had to pull down

(52:57):
her website after it was hacked. She stopped tweeting after
being harassed and you know, the actual critique that she
had been engaging in was silenced because of it. So
if anybody was like stifling the speech, it was Milo.
Here is Leslie talking about it to Laverne Cox. What
a blessing to have it come later in life, because
I think about me when I think I wasn't ready

(53:19):
as I thought, you know, when I moved to New York,
necting that in a few years I would be a superstar.
And what I understand about not having been ready, it's
not even just doing the work of being an actor,
but the fame part. Just dealing with the fame and
for you when Ghostbusters happened and the trolling and people

(53:41):
have to really know how specific that. Yeah, none of
none of the other girls got trolled like I did.
And I hate to say it like this, but it
is was because I was a black woman, and I
hate to say that. I think it's also that you're
a dark skinned black woman. Yeah, yeah, I really hate
to say that because it's truth. Though it's it's like
I wanted to be like, I don't want this to

(54:02):
be about that, but it was, and it was a shame.
And the reason I say it all the time is
because I think people need to hear this. I was
getting videos of white people spitting on on my picture, um,
hanging me, hanging my doll. They're gonna kill me, They're
gonna find out where my family. They're gonna kill me

(54:23):
and my family. They're spitting they would they would sending
my pictures with where they jacked off on it. Like
it was just horrible, horrible for a movie. And the
reason that you that that I got cast, I'm so sorry.
So my important thing was like everybody was like, well,
you know, ignore it block. No that I'm not gonna ignore.

(54:46):
Accountability is what needs to be set in this society
right now. Ya can't just do the people and think
you could just get away with it because you wouldn't
say that my face. You would not say that in
my face, and I know you wouldn't because profile don't
even have your picture on it has a cartoon. So
you're coward and I'm gonna call you out. So I

(55:06):
would take screenshots of everything that was sent to me
and I would post it and I'd be like, yeah,
this is the type of that's coming to me. This
is the type of community that y'all like, what's wrong
with y'all. That's why I arrived for her. That's exactly
it is. She's like, nah, I are you a coward?
Like I'm gonna call you on it again. I So
I was like, you messing with the wrong one. That's
what That's what I thought about her. I'm like, you know,

(55:27):
you're messing with the wrong one. She ain't gonna she
ain't gonna let you'all like do her like this. Yeah,
And listening to her talk about it, I'm on the
one hand, she should not have to go through at
all at all. But on the other hand, I'm happy
that she like the advice of like just ignore it,

(55:48):
don't pay attention to them. I'm glad that she did
not take that advice because there has to be accountability.
There has to be accountability. Um. And So one of
the questions that people ask a lot in this conversation
was did Milo actually lead the charge of harassment against Jones?
And this is a little bit of a tricky situation
because it's another hallmark of online harassment where users that

(56:10):
have these big platforms, they don't come right out and
say attack this person, because that would clearly violate Twitter's
rules against coordinated harassment. So it's very like wink wink,
nudge nudge. Trump was also very good at this. Um.
You know. Milo writes a scathing review about Ghostbusters where
he singles out Leslie Jones specifically, he introduces racist, inflammatory

(56:31):
attacks on her. He quote tweets her to his followers
and says, this person is playing the victim for Cloud,
and then he demonstrates that she blocked him so that
he cannot continue harassing her. Um and he says this
to his millions of followers, who he has ripped up
into a frenzy. I would argue knowing that they will
understand what they are being called to do. But it's

(56:53):
so savvy because when people point out his role in this,
he's able to be like, oh, they're lying about me.
It's just another piece of evidence of this biased media.
And I believe people like Milo they know exactly what
they are doing. They are purposely amassing a following of
a grief sycophants that they have inflamed, and then they
point them out a specific target. Step back, let them

(57:15):
attack this person. And then they say I had nothing
to do with it. Prove I had it. Where's the
tweet or I told them to do this. I had
nothing to do with it. God, yeah, that's the worst type. Man. Well,
you could be like, what do you what are you
talking about? What did I do? Okay, what did I do?
You're like, bro, yeah, that kind of goes back to
what we talked about before we started filming about oh boy,

(57:38):
yeah it's and also I mean to yeh like it's
like a like a I would have respected so much
more of it. If you're gonna be about it, be
about it, don't be about it. And then when you're
called out and be like, I just know such thing.
You know, it's so cowardly, She's exactly right that it's
so coward And she was like, y'all even y'all even
got photos on your profile. I was like, yeah, yea,

(57:58):
that's during that season. Yeah, when you just had the
little black and white circle shadow. That was definitely the
situation when like, man, he even got it. You don't
even got an Abbey bro like I'm good. So eventually
Leslie Jones takes a pause from Twitter. She says, I
leave Twitter tonight with tears in a very sad heart.
All of this because I did a movie. You can
hate the movie, but the shift I got today is wrong.

(58:21):
And eventually Jack Dorsey, who then was the CEO of Twitter,
personally got involved. He met with Leslie about the harassment,
and Twitter permanently banned Milo from the platform as a result.
In a statement, Twitter said people should be able to
express diverse opinions and believes on Twitter, but no one
deserves to be subjected to targeted abuse online and are
rules promhibit inciting or engaging and targeted harassment or abuse

(58:42):
of others. Um This actually ended up kick starting a
wave of Twitter sort of cracking down on like white
supremacist all right Twitter users. In November, they suspend Richard
Spencer and other white supremacists figures, and they rolled out
a series of action succurbed hate speech and abuse on
the platform. Here's Leslie talking about the aftermath of how

(59:04):
this all ended up. What's scary about the whole thing
is that the insults didn't hurt me. Unfortunately, I'm used
to the insults. That's unfortunate. But what scared me was
the injustice of a gang of people jumping against you
for such a sick cause. I mean, it was like, like,
I mean, they just like everybody has an opinion and

(59:25):
it all comes at you at one time, and their stay.
They really believe in what they believe in, and it's
so mean, Like it's so gross and mean and unnecessary.
So it was just like one of those things of like, okay,
so if I hadn't said anything, nobody would ever knew
about this. And it was one of those things of like, hey,

(59:48):
you know when I when I approached Facebook, day was
on it. Twitter, I was on them. I was like, Yo,
it's okay. It's like, that's my favorite restaurant. I love
the food there. Three people just got shot in to me,
y'all need to get scarity. You know, there's a lot

(01:00:11):
of really smart people at that company, and they really
need to try to start sorting out not just how
to protect people like you, but the people that don't
have this public forum, because I think it happens to
so many people. So it's definitely a good thing that
Milo was kicked off the platform. But here's the thing.
Leslie Jones is a wealthy celebrity. She was also like
a Twitter super user, so it's not surprising that Jack

(01:00:32):
Dorsey would step in and like personally meet with her
about these experiences. But what about all the black women
and girls who are not celebrities right, who have not
personally been involved in like high engagement for the platform,
who don't have the money to hire a digital security
person to take down intimate photos if they're posted. I
think that because people who are marginalized are the ones

(01:00:54):
who are often targeted on social media platforms, they shouldn't
have to be like rich, or famous or well connected
to show up on these platforms. All different kinds of
people who are attacked and harassed on social media platforms.
Black folks, transpolkes, queer folks, sex workers, activists, doctors who
perform abortions. These are the people who are being attacked
and they deserved safety on these platforms, even if they

(01:01:16):
are not celebrities. And that really brings us to today.
You know, Elon Musk is already publicly signaling that these
are the kinds of people responsible for these kinds of
attacks he wants to bring back to the platforms. Last month,
Jordan Peterson, which if you don't know who that is,
listen to behind the Bastards. Yeah, good for you, but
listen to behind the Bastards. He was kicked off of

(01:01:38):
Twitter for intentionally mis gendering the actor Elliott Page, which
is against Twitter's terms of service. His daughter tweeted last month, Uh,
to Elon Musk, will you bring my dad back to
the platform? Elon Must replied, anyone suspended for minor and
dubious reasons will be freed from Twitter jail. And so
think about all the people that represents Milo Peterson, folks
like Gavin mckinnis, who was the founder of The Boys,

(01:02:00):
Alex Jones, and Margie Taylor Green, all these people who
were kicked off the platform. Musk is signaling that he
might reinstate them. He very well might reinstate Donald Trump.
In a text exchange between him and Twitter's former CEO,
Must says, Oh, it would be great to unwind permanent
bands except for spam accounts and those that advocate for violence.

(01:02:20):
And at a conference, Musk said that he thought that
banning Donald Trump was a mistake. Yeah, but it's so
like it's so stupid, like out of his own mouth,
except for bots and like people that stoke violence. I'm like,
literally everybody they banned, we're stoking violence. Like what is
you talking about? Like I don't understand. And that's what
I mean by like again earlier, or I could jump
off this roof. It's like, okay, go ahead and do it. Now.

(01:02:43):
Now you see why none of us are jumping off
this roof. Now you see why what happened, why we
all climbed down the second time, because we realized when
you up there, oh, it's not what it's not what
you thought it was. So you're gonna have to walk
all this ship back everything you're saying you're gonna do.
And and it's funny to watch that happen in real time,
you know what I'm saying, Like, you gotta walk all
this ship back, so like and fam we try to

(01:03:05):
tell you, like, no, bro, you don't want this smoke dog,
you don't have you don't have to do it. You
don't have to do it. Okay, go ahead, then you know,
jump off the roof. It's such a good analogy. And
I think we're seeing Elon Musk grapple with exactly those questions.
You know, he called himself a free speech absolutist, and

(01:03:25):
it's coming to see what pretty much every person who
has ever run any social media platform that's see it
is that it's really fucking hard, and it's involved, and
you have to like really like consider a lot of stuff,
and you can't just do it on a whim. And
so it's interesting to watch him realize this will accept
for and then also and then maybe if y'all was

(01:03:47):
doing it, but then if we want to advertisers, then yeah,
it's gonna be space. So you can't really say and
then so yeah, but I'm an absolutist though, Okay, fab exactly,
And so here's where we are now. You know, the
question really becomes what are you going to allow on
these platforms? Who has served when extremists are welcomed onto

(01:04:09):
platforms that are allowed to harass and attack people who
were just mining their business like Milo and his supporters did.
And you know, I think for a lot of these
these people in prop I think that you really clocked this.
It's a grift. It is an engagement strategy. It is
I am going to harass people on Twitter, get lots
of engagement, and that is going to meeting that's going
to be lucrative for me. And I don't think that

(01:04:30):
platform should be incentivizing that kind of a dangerous grift. Yeah,
I have to end by saying you might be wondering, well,
where is Milo. Now, while after being kicked off of Twitter,
that was only one part of his downfall. It was
not the Leslie Jones harassment campaign that killed off his career. Um,
he kind of maintained golden boy status within the right

(01:04:51):
until seen where he was slated to speak at Seapack
and that a video surface of him, I guess like
kind of endorsing pedophilia. This was a it's too far
for the right. He was booted from the seat pack lineup,
he lost a lucrative book deal, he resigned from Breitbart,
and today he's broke. He doesn't have anywhere near the platform.

(01:05:12):
And listen when I look when you send us this
script and I scrolled down to the bottom and it
said today Milo is broke. I was like, this is
the greatest, this is the dopest last book. It never
it never happens. Yeah, it rarely happens where somebody finally,
like finally hits their downfall and you're like, all of

(01:05:35):
my good home training says I shouldn't revel in your laws. However,
this was like, no, you earned that. You know what
I'm saying. That's that you earned that, brother, You know
what I'm saying that's your ship sandwich that you put
together yourself. So enjoy your ship sandwich. Enjoy it, bro,
So thank you for being here today. It was a

(01:05:57):
pleasure getting into this infurior in but enlightening conversation. Tell
us about hood politics and do you know anyone where
can get a good cup of coffee? Oh? I know
a bunch of um so politics with prop also on
cool Zone media. Uh. It's essentially like it's kind of evolved.
I kind of like the way it's evolved. It's a

(01:06:18):
started off as just like, oh, like there's these weird headlines,
hot takes, like what are these people talking about? How
do I how do I make sense of this? And
just really wanting to help people tap into like their
street knowledge to understand that that's just as legitimate as
their book knowledge, you know what I'm saying. So just
really helping you understand just the political landscape. But it's
really evolved into like more than just politics. It's like sociology,

(01:06:41):
cultural studies, history, economics, just essentially like I just want
people to understand it. You know, you're smarter than you
think you are, and these people are not smarter than you.
You know what I'm saying, So, you had a very
relevant tweet that you posted in the last week where
you you talked about how people voted for things that
they that they didn't think they were voting for because

(01:07:01):
they purposely try to confuse. Yeah, so that's yeah, Like
that's that type of like I'm trying to give y'all
game where it's like, you know, um, whether the tweet
was like, hey, you know a lot of y'all voted
yes on stuff that you meant no and voted no
on stuff that you thought meant yes, and it's because
they worded it wrong. So what I want to do
is come in with her politics is be like, hey, honey,

(01:07:23):
you're trying to hustle you that means yes, you know,
and just being like hey, think about it. Like you know,
when somebody was like, hey, you don't want dinner tonight
foods being like no, yes, no, I no, I do
want dinner. Yeah, you know what I'm saying, like, look,
they're not smarter than you. It's the hustle. You just
gotta like pay attention to the hustle. So yeah, the

(01:07:44):
politics are prop Also, I do have my own cold brew.
It's called Terraform Cold Brew. You go to Terraform coldbrew
dot com. It's can itself stable. You ain't gotta keep
it in the frieze, although it takes better if you
keep it in the frieze. But yeah, Terraform coldbrew dot
com gets used to get you some of that good
in your book and the book is also called Terraform
Collection of Poetry and Short Story. With the holidays coming up,

(01:08:06):
I can't think of a better gift. You need to
get Terraform coffee and Terraform book. That would that's compared
book and coffee. It's a good. Yeah, thank you so much,
thanks for being appreciated. This is help. Internet Hate Machine
is a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts

(01:08:28):
from cool Zone Media, check out our website cool zone
media dot com or find us on the I Heart
Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.