December 21, 2022 • 36 mins
Ruby Freeman & Shaye Moss are heroes for their testimony before the Jan 6th commission, but they shouldn’t have to be. The Daily Zeitgeist’s Miles Gray joins Bridget to discuss what happened when the disgraced president and the right wing digital media ecosystem coalesced to attack Black women for simply doing their jobs as poll workers during the 2020 election.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
So after eighteen months, the probe into the insurrection on
January six, finally came to a close on Monday, and
their final recommendations are actually kind of huge. Let's get
into it. The committee recommended that the Department of Justice
investigate Trump for inciting an insurrection, conspiracy to defraud the
United States, conspiracy to make a false statement, and obstruction
(00:22):
of an official proceeding. The committee officials and investigators said
that they decided to make criminal referrals against Trump after
seeing sufficient evidence of all of this behavior. So yeah,
basically the stuff that we already knew, the stuff that
we basically all saw with our own eyes unfolding on
and before January six, And now I am really curious
(00:44):
to find out what happens next. I have been a
little bit skeptical that we will ever actually see Trump
or any of his creonies face actual accountability for their actions.
But notably, I have not seen a lot of the
major Republican players on the right circling the wagons to
protect Trump like I thought they might have done, so
I guess we'll see. During the closing comments, the committee
(01:05):
played a montage of all the different people who were
hurt or killed during January six and that includes Ruby
Freeman and Shame Moss, and I am really holding space
for these women in the aftermath of the commission. Their
story is a really good reminder why we should all
care about what happens on the Internet, because not only
does it hurt the people targeted, like Ruby and Shame,
(01:26):
but when our online platforms amplify lies that traffic and
racism and sexism, it has real consequences for all of us.
It makes us all less safe and less secure in
the process. So I sat down with my good friend
Miles Gray from the podcast The Daily Zeitgeist to discuss
the story of Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss to private
citizens who were targeted by Trump and his allies and
(01:47):
how cruelly their own country betrayed them. And this is
just part one of a two part conversation about what
these women went through and how it hurts all of us.
Look be to another episode of Internet Hate Machine. I
am so thrilled to be joined a BYuT one of
my favorite humans, Miles Gray of The Daily Zy Guys. Miles,
(02:08):
thank you for being here? Are you for really for real?
Oh my god? Thank you? Bridget I mean honestly, you're
one of The feeling is very mutual. Um before can
I tell them off? Mike, I was in my feelings
because when I was in d C, I was like,
let's hang out, and you didn't see the message in time,
but it did break my heart only because of my
(02:29):
deep respect and admiration for you. So the feeling is
so mutual. As I said, next time you're in d C,
I'm taking you and yours out to a big dinner.
I mean it, okay, I mean I don't need a
big dinner as you know. Whatever, Just show me something cool,
you know, like is Marvin still open on Q Street?
It closed? It's still longer there? Yeah, it's gone. It was.
It's like a DC institution gone because of the pandemic.
(02:52):
Oh no, I really wow. Anyway, this isn't a DC
restaurant show. But anyway, shout out to r I P
long live Marvin's had so many good nights there. But
I have to ask you, Miles, have you been following
that any of the January six hearings me a daily
(03:15):
news podcast? Me? Oh, I would say, I mean, to
be honest, I follow enough to know like what happened
during every Night of Couchella, as I refer to as
the January six hearings, so like I'll keep up with
the big developments from there, but I definitely have like
(03:36):
there's so I know, there's so much information to go
deep on. That part of me is like my cynicism,
where it's like, look, i'll be interested if there's actual consequences,
So wake me up when I start seeing people getting
perp walked. But to that, to that end, I have
been keeping up, but I would say, like I'm a
I don't even know how to gauge my engagement with
the news, like casual follower, although I probably know a
(03:58):
few things, but yeah, I've been It's so funny because
I was going to say the same thing. I consider
myself a casual follower. But that makes it sound like
you're talking about Grey's Anatomy or something, or like Housewives, Like, oh,
I dip in and dip out. I missed the last season.
It's like, I don't know if we should be talking
about like exactly You're like, I know that it went
from like I know, I remember when it became Sloan
(04:21):
Gray Slow Memorial Hospital, and that was a wave of
two um and then that one person who got hit
by the bicycle and then they were about to anyway. Um,
all that to say, yeah, who knows in this age
of so much information, what is casual and what is
like obsessed? Well, on December nineteen is going to be
the final public hearing of the January six committee, and
(04:44):
the final report is actually gonna be released a few
days later on December twenty one. So it's kind of
all coming to an end. And I'm kind of like you,
I followed it, but I am not getting my hopes
up for actual consequences or accountability for any of the
major players that deserve consequences. So we will see, yeah,
because we only have history to tell us that there
won't be consequences. So I'm like, unless we have a
(05:06):
market shift, and how are like legal system works and
who we enforce the like actual laws with um, I'm
counting on Like it's like I feel like the little
pieces of a red meat that have people feeling like,
oh they're doing something or all the like ancillary tertiary
sort of characters to this, like the like oathkeeper adjacent
(05:27):
folks who they're like, oh and then you walked in
there and smashed a wall. See you in two years.
It's like, where's Jenny Thomas at hello? Are we talking
about her at all? God? I would love to see
her get up her block. Could you imagine she'd be like,
I need to speak with the manager like she was,
She would actually say that I feel like and then
they would be like, oh, well, why didn't you say that? Sooner?
(05:49):
Take the cuffs off? Can I speak to the manager
of jail please? Oh wait, it's my husband, Clarence. Do something, honey.
So there's been so much compelling testimony from these hearings,
but in my book, I don't think any was more
compelling than the testimony from Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss.
You might remember their testimony from a couple of months ago.
(06:11):
Basically when they gave their testimony, it kind of like
broke my heart to hear this personal story in their
own words of how Trump and Juliani and this whole
ecosystem of assholes basically ruined their lives and jeopardized their safety.
And I think that their story is one that is
really about racism and sexism, and like this general visceral
(06:34):
distrust and disdain that a lot of folks have for
black women like Ruby and Shay. So I really think
that this their story is kind of like the culmination
of so many things that we have already talked about
on this podcast. You know, when racism and sexism run
unchecked online and it creates the conditions for lies about
black women to have a welcome home online where they
(06:55):
will always be amplified and legitimized. And in this case,
it doesn't just impact these black women, it threatens democracy
or all of us. So that's really what I'm excited
to get into today. Please, I'm excited to talk about
anything that helps me feel better about our democracy, I mean,
or worse. But as long as we get to the
bottom of it, I feel like there's there's comfort in
(07:15):
knowledge too. There's a little comfort in it. Um. So
if folks don't know, Ruby Moss and her daughter Shae
Freeman were both election workers in Fulton County, Georgia, a
state that Trump legitimately lost in Barren Square and where Yeah,
I'm gonna be saying that every twenty minutes like a
goddamn egg timer on this episode. So okay used to it.
(07:37):
So if you're listening, that is may or may not
be a drinking game. Yeah, drink a sip of your
beverage every time I bring that up. You might also
remember that Georgia is where Trump pressured the Secretary of
State to find votes for him in an attempt to
rewrite history. Mm hmm, because he lost that election. Farren Square,
(07:59):
So shame eight had really been like a long time
election worker in Georgia. This was something that she was
like known for in her community. Listening to her talk
about why she became an election worker, you know it.
She describes it as something that she did out of
a way to like genuinely support her community. She talks
about how there are a lot of older folks in
your community, and working as a poll worker felt like
(08:19):
a way to give back to the elders in her
in her town. Um. You you can just tell when
she's describing this that it's something that she feels felt
a lot of pride about. During Fulton County was meant
to have a shortage of election workers because of COVID,
and so Sha recruited her sixty two year old mother, Ruby,
who was a retired nine one one operator, to also
serve as an election worker. And Yeah, it just was
(08:41):
clear that This was something that these women were really
excited to be sort of doing what they saw as
their civic duty to support their their community, that they
talk about it with such reverence and pride. In an
attempt to cast doubt on the election, which Trump legitimately lost,
that's number two. Trump and his henchman Rudy Giuliani repeatedly
(09:03):
named Ruby and Shay, both black women, as election workers
who were rigging the election in favor of Biden. Now
I don't think I need to tell you this was
just an outright baseless lie. But this lie basically destroyed
their lives. And I want to get into a little
bit of how it started and where it came from.
On December three, lawyer working for the Trump campaign obtained
(09:24):
security video from election night from the State Farm Arena
and Georgia. It showed election workers and pole counters, including
Ruby and Shay, just doing their jobs like exactly what
you I know, how dare they well? I mean, yeah,
we all know what they were doing in there. They
were they were making votes up for Joe Byron. If you,
(09:44):
if you believe Rudy Giulietti, that is exactly what was
going on. This lawyer brought the video to a Georgia
State Senate committee, saying that it showed someone who quote
had the name Ruby across her shirt somewhere finding a
suitcase full of ballots underneath the ta able. Again, I
don't really think I need to tell you that this
is all complete bullshit. The video just showed election workers
(10:07):
who were told to pack up for the night, so
they're putting the ballots away, not in suitcases. There's no
suitcases in this video. It's just like the normal ballot boxes.
They put these ballot boxes away, and then later they're told,
actually go ahead and we start to vote count, don't
wait until the morning. And so that's what they did.
It's just a hum drum normal video of people doing
their fucking jobs. I just love to like all these
(10:30):
conspiracy theories that come with the like come from the right.
They all have this like Looney Tunes depiction of how
like reality works, like and it's in a leather suitcase
with ballots shooting out this side. This thing was tacked
to the gills, like really a suitcase, Like what does
that even mean? It's so how someone who was writing
a bad movie would script like like election rigging, like
(10:55):
being passed a suitcase under a table, like even like
a briefcase is such a like weird thing to say
that that was in use um for election rigging. Later,
Juliani talks about how it was involved like USB drives
and like, you know, staging a phony pipe pipe breaking
in the in the vote count center. You know, it's
(11:15):
like it's so over the top and cartoony. But I
do think that that is what these people think actually
happens in real life, That real life works like a
goddamn episode of dark Wing Duck. I mean, it would
explain some of the logic that they used to try
and like overturn elections or most people like what the
funk was that? Just like I don't know, I think,
(11:35):
maybe call a bunch of goons to the capitol and
then it will work out. Let's just try it, you know,
you never know, you never know. So the video of
these election workers, including Ruby and Shay, starts making its
way online through this really gross cottage industry of like
right wing extremists blogs and media sites, and once it's
(11:55):
in that online pipeline, it's everywhere. It doesn't matter that
this video was like immediately debunked by Georgia's Secretary of State,
like immediately, once it's out there, it's out there. And
this is where we really get like a big vector
of lies about the women, which is a website called
the Gateway Pundit. Have you ever heard of this? Oh yeah, real,
(12:16):
real place where you poison your brain with nonsense. Absolutely so.
The Gateway Pundit is an extremist right wing media site.
Research from the University of Washington Center for and Informed
Public found that the Gateway Pundit was the second most
prolific purveyor of election misinformation on Twitter in the late months.
So just a real place where if you want complete
(12:40):
fictions to be amplified to millions of people, that's your site.
M hmmmm, I mean yeah, it's it's they're soothing bedtime
stories for panicked white people who are not ready for
the status quo to be upended. Sounds exactly the same
day that that lawyer for Trump sends that video saying
that he thinks that it includes election tampering. The Way
Public publish as an article the first article that disseminates
(13:03):
the video, and a story that was promoted under the
headline huge in all caps. Video footage from Georgia show
suitcase is filled with ballots pulled up from under a
table after supervisor told GOP poll workers to leave tabulation
center right, and so that's the first time that this
video kind of hits the online space in a big way.
(13:25):
The Gateway Pundit then calls Ruby out by first and
last name writing on the site. Her name is Ruby Freeman,
and she made the mistake of advertising her purse on
her desk the same night that she was involved in
voter fraud on a all caps massive scale. Her t
search says Lady Ruby, and her purse says La Ruby,
which is her company. This was not a very smart move.
(13:48):
Her company is called La Ruby's Unique Treasures. It's on
her LinkedIn page. Maybe the Georgia Police or Bill Bars
d o J may want to pay Ruby Freeman a
visit um. The article concludes with an image of her
with a banner that says all caps read lettering crook
gets caught. Oh boy, yeah, that's uh, that's you already
(14:10):
know that's bad news. I mean knowing to like this
online trash, to like Fox News or news Max pipeline.
It's like it always you can always write like link
every Tucker or handy thing, and it's always going to
start off with some weird non kernel of lie uh
that's posted online exactly, and so that's I think that
(14:32):
this exactly what you just said. I feel like the
way that this video moved through the online right wing
blog a sphere digital ecosystem really gives us an idea
of exactly what you're talking about, right, how this sort
of digital ecosystem works. Like it started with Gateway Pundit,
then it goes to O A N, then Trump starts
(14:52):
amplifying it on his Twitter, right, and so like it
starts in this like really kind of what should be
like a fringe site, even though Gateway Pundit did get
White House credentials when Trump was an office. But then
it ends up with Trump amplifying the video that he
got from Gateway Pundit and then Box News talking about it, right,
and so it really doesn't move through this like shitty
pipeline of extremist right wing garbage. So just three days
(15:22):
after Gateway Punditt publishes this, Ruby starts getting harassed and
people are showing up outside of her door and she's
really scared. I'm gonna play a little clip of a
nine one one call that she made grabbing ham and
terrorist great herbans hairs, an harassing phone called and emails
and they came out and made a police report. Um
yesterday and nast night about time. Minutes after night, somebody
(15:45):
was a bamon on the door. And now somebody's bammon
on the door. Can't call any screaming he's there, bammin
on the door, right, crying to a bamon on the door. No,
(16:06):
they are an the wayman, Oh god. So I mean,
she sounds terrified. It's heartbreaking. And this is like a
sixtysomething year old woman, you know, who's making this call
because people are banging on the doors of her house
(16:27):
in the middle of the night and she doesn't know
what to do. It is terrifying mm hmm. And I
think what's also really important to point out here is
the ways that Trump and his cronies specifically used racism
and misogyny to fuel this lie. Like, I don't think
that this lie would have worked the same way had
Ruby and her daughter not been black women. And I
(16:47):
think if we didn't have a digital media climate kind
of ready and willing to validate and amplify the worst
racist lies about black women who we already know are
disproportionately harmed by things like disinformation and harassment and conspiracy series.
I don't think it would have worked the same way,
and I think that you saw that in a lot
of the way that Trump and his allies talked about
(17:08):
these women. I'm gonna play another clip for you from
Rudy Giuliani. I apologize for making you listen to his voice.
Take earlier in the day of Ruby Freeman and Shae Freeman,
Mars and one other gentleman quite obviously surreptitiously passing around
USB ports as if they are vials of heroin or cocaine.
(17:28):
I mean, it's our it's it's obvious to anyone who's
a criminal investigator or prosecutor. They're engaged in surreptitious and
illegal activity again that day and after a week ago,
and they're still walking around Georgia. Why should have been
they should have been uh should been questioned already? There
are places of work, their homes should have been searched
(17:51):
for evidence of balance, for ellis, evidence of USB ports,
for evidence of voter fraud. Oh so, so they the
USB port, what you put the USB drive into Yes,
isn't it interesting how earlier you were like, wow, pretty
weird that their claims of voter fraud involved like briefcases.
(18:12):
That's pretty cartoony. And now he's saying that they're passing
USB drives back and forth to each other like vials
of heroin. And then he says that their house should
be searched for USB ports, like like, which is it?
Is it like a super high tech USB enabled voter
theft or is it briefcases full of ballots? I'm just saying,
(18:32):
like I'm I'm more getting angry as like a nerd
who likes technology. The port is the opening in which
you would insert some kind of USB cable or thumb drive.
That's like being like and they had outlets that they
were passing around. It's like, well, is it the plug
(18:52):
or what are you talking about the thing that goes
into what you're I think what you mean is a
USB drive. So, aside from getting hung up on that,
the like you're saying, this is just so common with
with these like right wing people, because we already get it,
like we know you're anti black racists. That's that's that's
completely clear. And all of the legislation and the like
(19:14):
the rhetoric that's being used. But to even like evoke
like the drug war, to put these women in the
context of the drug war, because that was absolutely he's
referring to a hand to hand crack deal or some ship,
you know what I mean. And he's basically saying, Okay,
black people, you know they're shady because of drugs. Therefore,
(19:35):
what the funk were they doing with those USB ports?
You see, it rights itself and it's this like really
cheap way that allows this racism to just casually continue
because it's like, all right, tick that box, tick that box,
Yet black people yep, yep, that's enough for me. Exactly
like the way that he so casually evokes the like
the drug the drug war, I think it's meant to
(19:56):
be like, y'all know how black people are. There's never
there's why would you You're already basically accusing these women
of vote tampering. Why are you then also evoking drugs?
These women are not like that. That's it just it
just goes to show how when it comes to racism,
exactly like you said, it's these seemingly disparate things gloamed
(20:17):
together just to be like, just by virtue of this
being a black person, something shady is going on, my
virtue of their presence, like he could have said. And
then you see in the video handing each other usb
ports like it was the wire or something. You know
what I mean, that's basically what he's saying, you know,
and that's just hasn't seen the wire. He's not. He's not,
(20:38):
but I'm saying, yeah, of course not. But I'm saying
that's the shorthand that it's evoking, which is essentially to say, look,
we're so racist, we can't even imagine black people committing
this kind of crime of voter fraud. So let me
dumb it down to something that are like our culture
has rammed down your throats as to what black people are,
which are drug dealers or gang members. So let me
(21:00):
re contextualize this voter fraud in this very neat trope
that you're already used to having, like no thought cliches
that you just immediately say yes to. And that's how yeah,
and it's and it's it's sad how quickly that momentum
moves because people really they just need a reason to
act out, like act on their racist beliefs exactly. And
(21:22):
so obviously these women were not passing a USB drive
back and forth, but they were actually passing each other
was a piece of ginger candy. So what Giuliani was saying,
which is complete bs. Yeah. You might also remember that
infamous phone call where Trump called Georgia's Secretary of State
Brad Raethvensburger, asking him to find votes. In that call,
(21:42):
he evoked Ruby Freeman by name. Here's what he said.
We had at least eighteen thousand that's so unpaid. We
had him counted very eight thousand voters having to do
with the roomy Freeman. That's she's a vote scammer, a
(22:03):
professional vote scammer, and hustlers. So he calls her a
professional vote scammer, which and hustler. And I think even
kind of like what Miles was saying, the language that
he uses to talk about her a hustler, a professional scammer,
like it really hearkens back to this, I guess, a
(22:23):
really specific and well worn trope about black women that
I think he's really, in a kind of a savvy way,
trying to hearken back to, like, oh, you know how
black women are all scammers and hustlers exactly. So I
also think kind of to that end, And this is
like a little complicated to talk about, but I think
(22:44):
that's definitely part of it. One of the reasons I
think that this lie took off like it did is
because of the visual of these two black women. Sites
like the Gateway Pundit, who are where who that are
really good at knowing what's going to resonate with their audience,
what's gonna stoke something within their audience as going to
motivate them to click and share. It's probably not surprising
to you that they really used a lot of images
(23:06):
of these women, Like every story had a picture of them,
like a close up of them looking sort of like
they were up to no good, doing something nefarious. And
I think that that those images, I think really added
like a kind of a visual element to the story
that that really allowed it to take hold with racists.
Um on election night. Uh, these women were wearing blonde
(23:27):
hair extensions which contrast with their dark complexions, basically the
exact same hairstyle that I am currently wearing. Ruby owns
a a fashion store like am jewelry store, and so
she has a kind of a flashy personal style. She's
wearing a bedazzled shirt and has a bedazzled purse. I
think that they posted these images so often to pretty
much say, look how black these women are. And I
(23:50):
think Trump and Giuliani saw this video of two black
women counting votes in Georgia, and they knew that they
could say that these black women are the culprits and
that those black women were liars, and those black women
were the reason that Trump lost the election. And I
think the same way that Trump makes a whole thing
of like attacking black women, that's was his thing when
he was in the White House, I think, by black
(24:12):
women exactly exactly. Um. I think that he knew his
base would be poised and primed to believe whatever wild
conjecture that he pulled out of his ass, because they
have a visceral disdain and distrust for black women that
he stokes. And I think, you know, when social media
platforms are the cesspools of racist, sexist garbage, of course
(24:33):
it's going to amplify those lines of thinking. So I
think that Trump knew that his base would be really
ready to believe if they saw this visual of black
women just presimply doing their jobs and you know, not
doing anything wrong in Georgia, that would be enough proof
to convince them that something shady was going down. In
the absence of like actual proof proof that basically his
(24:53):
supporters would be like, hey, black women were involved in
the vote counting process. That should be enough to tell
you that the election was against me, which it wasn't,
because he lost. Exactly what was that he lost the election?
You said election? He did lose? He I mean to check, Yeah,
that's here that he lost, Okay, but yeah, I mean,
it's the same lazy racism. It's like, basically he's trying
(25:15):
to scale up the central part birdwatcher call it's a
black person, you know, because that has been weaponized against
black people for since time immemorial. The mere presence of
blackness is enough for racist people to say something is
afoot here. Just be just off the fucking physical presence
(25:39):
of black people, you know what I mean. And so
to your point, it's it's because all the base probably
all have a very similar like outlook on black American people,
which is like whoo who h. So if that's already
your baseline in thinking about a black person, it doesn't
take much then to just be like and that's bad, right, folks,
(26:00):
and yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, And there's no thought that
needs to go into because like to your point, it's
just like they're just sort of um like drafting off
of the cultural momentum of racism that already exists, like
to the point where we don't really some people just
don't even need facts. It's the fact that they are
black women is quite literally enough exactly. And I think
(26:20):
that there they knew that their base for them that
would be enough. They didn't need any other kind of proof.
Just the fact that black women were in the mix
in Georgia enough said. And this led to really like
like an uptick in very scary online harassment. She says
that she got so many threats wishing death upon her.
(26:41):
One of them said should be in jail with her mother,
and saying things like you should be glad it's not
nineteen twenty, which is obviously like a pretty obvious threat
to like lynch her or reference to lynching. So being
a flapper, yeah, they're not talking about like being a
bootlegger or something. Yeah, that's a that's a inching reference, right,
(27:09):
And so it really goes to show how you know,
we're not talking about just mean messages on the internet.
We're talking about very, very threats. But these women went
through because of these lives. I want to play another
clip of their testimony talking about how this affected their
everyday life. Now. I won't even introduce my self by
(27:33):
my name anymore. I get nervous when I bump into
someone I know in the grocery store who says my name.
I'm heard about who's listening. I get nervous when I
have to give my name for food orders. I'm always
concerned of who's around me. I've lost my name, and
(27:54):
I've lost my reputation. I've lost my sense of security
m all because a group of people, starting with number
forty five and his allah, Rudy Giuliani, decided to scapegoat
me and my door to shape to push their own
(28:15):
lines about how the presidential election was stolen. It honestly
boils my blood to hear her talk about how this
reputation and name that had meant so much to her,
Like she talked about how she used to wear her
name bedazzled on her hat, on her shirts, on her
persons because she was so proud of her name and
(28:35):
now she doesn't even introduce herself by name anymore, and
that is what Trump and Giuliani took from her. It's heartbreaking.
You know, these these women were pillars of their community
and now they're you know, basically resigned to a life
of hiding for their own safety. Yeah, it's it's so
hard to, like you say here that because there's so
(28:57):
many levels of loss that are being experienced by this woman, Like,
you know, just in the context of slavery, right, you've
already lost your identity in your name through chattel slavery,
through the Middle passage, Like you've completely been severed from
your sense of belonging or identity just from being forcibly
(29:20):
brought to this land. And then to go through all
the other things that black people have to have to
go through since the end of slavery, and to have
someone like this who still believes that this country is
worth saying, you know what, this is a way that
I feel like I can give back because this is
giving me something, and I and I have this exchange
(29:42):
feels fair. To only have that lead to something like
this where now you you're doubling back and saying I've
lost my name I've lost my ability to even have
pride in myself. That's like such a level of like, like,
the dimensions of loss are so profound that it's not
just like and I can't even go on Twitter anymore.
(30:04):
It's no, I've actually become afraid to identify myself because
someone's lies are fueling a bunch of violent thoughts and
deeds from other people. That's really funny. It's really hard
to hear that because she doesn't deserve that. And I
really feel bad when people are so invested in how
(30:24):
good this country is and wanting to stick up for
it and fight for it, and you're getting crumbs back constantly.
And there's another part of that too that feels it's
really difficult for me to watch and like kind of
reckon with as I see this all happen. Is the
same thing with like that one Capital police officer, that
one black officer who was fighting off this whole crowd,
And I'm like, in a way, I'm like, for what, man,
(30:47):
because what are they given? I mean, what how has
how have things? How have those how have the needs
of our community actually been heard or met? But somehow
the resilience to come back and keep believing. It's like
it's it like makes me feel bad that I'm cynical.
It makes me feel like, I don't know, is that
the Is that the best place to put my energy
or not. But that's just I think that's always the
(31:09):
darkness that exists when you look at these kinds of
situations where especially Black Americans are like, I actually believe
in the good of this country, only to have your
own blackness weaponized against you to the point that you
have you've you're in hiding. It's just this level of
docks sing is it's like so inhumane and cruel, like
(31:32):
they're they're they're literally in the amount of they didn't
have to be there. They didn't have to they didn't
have to work in the in the voting polls, they
didn't have to help people. They were there to help
people vote. They were there to help people vote, and
they've now docks them to the point that they're afraid
to use their own name. That is that that is America,
and that is disgusting. Just yeah, I just wish um
(31:55):
it's funny. You know, like my grandmother she loved it
as flashy the black woman. You go to church, you
put your nice wig on, you know what I mean,
the wild metallic jacket and stuff that's like part of culturally,
that's part of how we have a sense of pride
of what little we have we have left because we
(32:18):
were completely excluded from the the fruits of slave labor,
you know. And then to even say, like there's something
I can see like you like, you know, some people
can easily identify with what you're talking about. Other people
may have a harder time. But that was another part
that really is hard to hear, is like I used
(32:38):
to like to wear my things, Like the little bits
of joy that she was able to extract from her
life were taken away from her. And I think that's it,
and how easily and how quickly that happens should really
be frightening for all people and not just people who
are are black or women or people of color. It's
the idea that like this is kind of the game
(32:58):
that people are playing now. They're like, you know, will
lie on you and we don't care what the toll
is because we'll just sick a mob on you. Yeah,
it's it's difficult to hear me to to listen to
what you're saying. She reminds me so much of my
own mother and grandmother, who also like to wear their
big hats and dress flashy and be bedazzled and have
long nails, and that that's part of a cultural identity
(33:21):
of what makes them who they are. It's it's a
beautiful way that they express who they are to the world.
And weaponizing your own identity against you having these things
that make you feel like you, that make you feel
like you're showing up in the world and telling the
world who you are. Turning those things against you is
a different kind of cruelty that I that I don't
(33:43):
know that everybody can really understand what that is like. No,
because you look at people who are like, well, these
other people have been canceled on the right or whatever,
and like they're a shamed or whatever. It's like, no, man,
Kyle Rittenhouse can walk into some bar in Texas and
they'll cheer for him, and he'll be out here with
his chest outing I'm Kyle House. You know what I mean.
That's he hasn't lost anything, He's only gained something because
(34:06):
he's it's only rallied more violent people like people around him.
Whereas this is just like to your point, weaponizing your
own existence against you. That is a that battles lost
basically immediately, at least psychologically for the person who is
the subject of it. It's really heartbreaking. Yeah. Then like
part of me was liked, stop fucking helping this place.
(34:30):
They don't give a funk look at what they do,
you know what I mean? And but there, But I
think it's really important to not become that. You can't
get to that level of cynicism if you are going
to continue. And that's a huge lesson I think most
Black people carry within them, is you. I mean, you
can't give up because we could have given up, We
(34:50):
could have given up hundreds of years ago. But there
has to be that sense that there is something on
the other side of it to keep you going. That
it's when it comes out in the kind of cruel
way to like use the optimism of these women to say,
you know what, I think, I think this could be
something good, and then it turned into something just the
antithesis of that, just tragedy upon tragedy. Yeah, this is
(35:13):
one of those situations that makes it, to your point,
makes it really hard for me to be optimistic about
the state of things. Like they were just so cruelly
discarded and used, and no amount of money can make
up for what they went through, Like they should get
all the money they deserve, all the money they should
sue everybody. No amount of money will make up for
(35:35):
what they have been through. Yeah, unless you have like
a gigantic neuralizer from Men in Black and you can
just aim it at the whole state of Georgia and
be like, yo, look up in the sky real quickly.
All right, girl, put your bejeweled hat back on, you
do it? Ruby? Like that really would be the only way, truly.
So we've talked about what Ruby and Shay went through,
and next week on part two, we'll be looking at
(35:57):
the major players who are behind the harassment campaign against them.
Spoiler alert, Kanye West and r Kelly are like tangentially involved,
and will also be looking at the wider impact that
the normalization of attacks on election workers like Luby and
Shay have for all of us. Internet Hate Machine is
a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from
(36:18):
cool Zone Media, check out our website cool zone media
dot com, or find us on the I Heart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
So after eighteen months, the probe into the insurrection on
January six, finally came to a close on Monday, and
their final recommendations are actually kind of huge. Let's get
into it. The committee recommended that the Department of Justice
investigate Trump for inciting an insurrection, conspiracy to defraud the
United States, conspiracy to make a false statement, and obstruction
(00:22):
of an official proceeding. The committee officials and investigators said
that they decided to make criminal referrals against Trump after
seeing sufficient evidence of all of this behavior. So yeah,
basically the stuff that we already knew, the stuff that
we basically all saw with our own eyes unfolding on
and before January six, And now I am really curious
(00:44):
to find out what happens next. I have been a
little bit skeptical that we will ever actually see Trump
or any of his creonies face actual accountability for their actions.
But notably, I have not seen a lot of the
major Republican players on the right circling the wagons to
protect Trump like I thought they might have done, so
I guess we'll see. During the closing comments, the committee
(01:05):
played a montage of all the different people who were
hurt or killed during January six and that includes Ruby
Freeman and Shame Moss, and I am really holding space
for these women in the aftermath of the commission. Their
story is a really good reminder why we should all
care about what happens on the Internet, because not only
does it hurt the people targeted, like Ruby and Shame,
(01:26):
but when our online platforms amplify lies that traffic and
racism and sexism, it has real consequences for all of us.
It makes us all less safe and less secure in
the process. So I sat down with my good friend
Miles Gray from the podcast The Daily Zeitgeist to discuss
the story of Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss to private
citizens who were targeted by Trump and his allies and
(01:47):
how cruelly their own country betrayed them. And this is
just part one of a two part conversation about what
these women went through and how it hurts all of us.
Look be to another episode of Internet Hate Machine. I
am so thrilled to be joined a BYuT one of
my favorite humans, Miles Gray of The Daily Zy Guys. Miles,
(02:08):
thank you for being here? Are you for really for real?
Oh my god? Thank you? Bridget I mean honestly, you're
one of The feeling is very mutual. Um before can
I tell them off? Mike, I was in my feelings
because when I was in d C, I was like,
let's hang out, and you didn't see the message in time,
but it did break my heart only because of my
(02:29):
deep respect and admiration for you. So the feeling is
so mutual. As I said, next time you're in d C,
I'm taking you and yours out to a big dinner.
I mean it, okay, I mean I don't need a
big dinner as you know. Whatever, Just show me something cool,
you know, like is Marvin still open on Q Street?
It closed? It's still longer there? Yeah, it's gone. It was.
It's like a DC institution gone because of the pandemic.
(02:52):
Oh no, I really wow. Anyway, this isn't a DC
restaurant show. But anyway, shout out to r I P
long live Marvin's had so many good nights there. But
I have to ask you, Miles, have you been following
that any of the January six hearings me a daily
(03:15):
news podcast? Me? Oh, I would say, I mean, to
be honest, I follow enough to know like what happened
during every Night of Couchella, as I refer to as
the January six hearings, so like I'll keep up with
the big developments from there, but I definitely have like
(03:36):
there's so I know, there's so much information to go
deep on. That part of me is like my cynicism,
where it's like, look, i'll be interested if there's actual consequences,
So wake me up when I start seeing people getting
perp walked. But to that, to that end, I have
been keeping up, but I would say, like I'm a
I don't even know how to gauge my engagement with
the news, like casual follower, although I probably know a
(03:58):
few things, but yeah, I've been It's so funny because
I was going to say the same thing. I consider
myself a casual follower. But that makes it sound like
you're talking about Grey's Anatomy or something, or like Housewives, Like, oh,
I dip in and dip out. I missed the last season.
It's like, I don't know if we should be talking
about like exactly You're like, I know that it went
from like I know, I remember when it became Sloan
(04:21):
Gray Slow Memorial Hospital, and that was a wave of
two um and then that one person who got hit
by the bicycle and then they were about to anyway. Um,
all that to say, yeah, who knows in this age
of so much information, what is casual and what is
like obsessed? Well, on December nineteen is going to be
the final public hearing of the January six committee, and
(04:44):
the final report is actually gonna be released a few
days later on December twenty one. So it's kind of
all coming to an end. And I'm kind of like you,
I followed it, but I am not getting my hopes
up for actual consequences or accountability for any of the
major players that deserve consequences. So we will see, yeah,
because we only have history to tell us that there
won't be consequences. So I'm like, unless we have a
(05:06):
market shift, and how are like legal system works and
who we enforce the like actual laws with um, I'm
counting on Like it's like I feel like the little
pieces of a red meat that have people feeling like,
oh they're doing something or all the like ancillary tertiary
sort of characters to this, like the like oathkeeper adjacent
(05:27):
folks who they're like, oh and then you walked in
there and smashed a wall. See you in two years.
It's like, where's Jenny Thomas at hello? Are we talking
about her at all? God? I would love to see
her get up her block. Could you imagine she'd be like,
I need to speak with the manager like she was,
She would actually say that I feel like and then
they would be like, oh, well, why didn't you say that? Sooner?
(05:49):
Take the cuffs off? Can I speak to the manager
of jail please? Oh wait, it's my husband, Clarence. Do something, honey.
So there's been so much compelling testimony from these hearings,
but in my book, I don't think any was more
compelling than the testimony from Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss.
You might remember their testimony from a couple of months ago.
(06:11):
Basically when they gave their testimony, it kind of like
broke my heart to hear this personal story in their
own words of how Trump and Juliani and this whole
ecosystem of assholes basically ruined their lives and jeopardized their safety.
And I think that their story is one that is
really about racism and sexism, and like this general visceral
(06:34):
distrust and disdain that a lot of folks have for
black women like Ruby and Shay. So I really think
that this their story is kind of like the culmination
of so many things that we have already talked about
on this podcast. You know, when racism and sexism run
unchecked online and it creates the conditions for lies about
black women to have a welcome home online where they
(06:55):
will always be amplified and legitimized. And in this case,
it doesn't just impact these black women, it threatens democracy
or all of us. So that's really what I'm excited
to get into today. Please, I'm excited to talk about
anything that helps me feel better about our democracy, I mean,
or worse. But as long as we get to the
bottom of it, I feel like there's there's comfort in
(07:15):
knowledge too. There's a little comfort in it. Um. So
if folks don't know, Ruby Moss and her daughter Shae
Freeman were both election workers in Fulton County, Georgia, a
state that Trump legitimately lost in Barren Square and where Yeah,
I'm gonna be saying that every twenty minutes like a
goddamn egg timer on this episode. So okay used to it.
(07:37):
So if you're listening, that is may or may not
be a drinking game. Yeah, drink a sip of your
beverage every time I bring that up. You might also
remember that Georgia is where Trump pressured the Secretary of
State to find votes for him in an attempt to
rewrite history. Mm hmm, because he lost that election. Farren Square,
(07:59):
So shame eight had really been like a long time
election worker in Georgia. This was something that she was
like known for in her community. Listening to her talk
about why she became an election worker, you know it.
She describes it as something that she did out of
a way to like genuinely support her community. She talks
about how there are a lot of older folks in
your community, and working as a poll worker felt like
(08:19):
a way to give back to the elders in her
in her town. Um. You you can just tell when
she's describing this that it's something that she feels felt
a lot of pride about. During Fulton County was meant
to have a shortage of election workers because of COVID,
and so Sha recruited her sixty two year old mother, Ruby,
who was a retired nine one one operator, to also
serve as an election worker. And Yeah, it just was
(08:41):
clear that This was something that these women were really
excited to be sort of doing what they saw as
their civic duty to support their their community, that they
talk about it with such reverence and pride. In an
attempt to cast doubt on the election, which Trump legitimately lost,
that's number two. Trump and his henchman Rudy Giuliani repeatedly
(09:03):
named Ruby and Shay, both black women, as election workers
who were rigging the election in favor of Biden. Now
I don't think I need to tell you this was
just an outright baseless lie. But this lie basically destroyed
their lives. And I want to get into a little
bit of how it started and where it came from.
On December three, lawyer working for the Trump campaign obtained
(09:24):
security video from election night from the State Farm Arena
and Georgia. It showed election workers and pole counters, including
Ruby and Shay, just doing their jobs like exactly what
you I know, how dare they well? I mean, yeah,
we all know what they were doing in there. They
were they were making votes up for Joe Byron. If you,
(09:44):
if you believe Rudy Giulietti, that is exactly what was
going on. This lawyer brought the video to a Georgia
State Senate committee, saying that it showed someone who quote
had the name Ruby across her shirt somewhere finding a
suitcase full of ballots underneath the ta able. Again, I
don't really think I need to tell you that this
is all complete bullshit. The video just showed election workers
(10:07):
who were told to pack up for the night, so
they're putting the ballots away, not in suitcases. There's no
suitcases in this video. It's just like the normal ballot boxes.
They put these ballot boxes away, and then later they're told,
actually go ahead and we start to vote count, don't
wait until the morning. And so that's what they did.
It's just a hum drum normal video of people doing
their fucking jobs. I just love to like all these
(10:30):
conspiracy theories that come with the like come from the right.
They all have this like Looney Tunes depiction of how
like reality works, like and it's in a leather suitcase
with ballots shooting out this side. This thing was tacked
to the gills, like really a suitcase, Like what does
that even mean? It's so how someone who was writing
a bad movie would script like like election rigging, like
(10:55):
being passed a suitcase under a table, like even like
a briefcase is such a like weird thing to say
that that was in use um for election rigging. Later,
Juliani talks about how it was involved like USB drives
and like, you know, staging a phony pipe pipe breaking
in the in the vote count center. You know, it's
(11:15):
like it's so over the top and cartoony. But I
do think that that is what these people think actually
happens in real life, That real life works like a
goddamn episode of dark Wing Duck. I mean, it would
explain some of the logic that they used to try
and like overturn elections or most people like what the
funk was that? Just like I don't know, I think,
(11:35):
maybe call a bunch of goons to the capitol and
then it will work out. Let's just try it, you know,
you never know, you never know. So the video of
these election workers, including Ruby and Shay, starts making its
way online through this really gross cottage industry of like
right wing extremists blogs and media sites, and once it's
(11:55):
in that online pipeline, it's everywhere. It doesn't matter that
this video was like immediately debunked by Georgia's Secretary of State,
like immediately, once it's out there, it's out there. And
this is where we really get like a big vector
of lies about the women, which is a website called
the Gateway Pundit. Have you ever heard of this? Oh yeah, real,
(12:16):
real place where you poison your brain with nonsense. Absolutely so.
The Gateway Pundit is an extremist right wing media site.
Research from the University of Washington Center for and Informed
Public found that the Gateway Pundit was the second most
prolific purveyor of election misinformation on Twitter in the late months.
So just a real place where if you want complete
(12:40):
fictions to be amplified to millions of people, that's your site.
M hmmmm, I mean yeah, it's it's they're soothing bedtime
stories for panicked white people who are not ready for
the status quo to be upended. Sounds exactly the same
day that that lawyer for Trump sends that video saying
that he thinks that it includes election tampering. The Way
Public publish as an article the first article that disseminates
(13:03):
the video, and a story that was promoted under the
headline huge in all caps. Video footage from Georgia show
suitcase is filled with ballots pulled up from under a
table after supervisor told GOP poll workers to leave tabulation
center right, and so that's the first time that this
video kind of hits the online space in a big way.
(13:25):
The Gateway Pundit then calls Ruby out by first and
last name writing on the site. Her name is Ruby Freeman,
and she made the mistake of advertising her purse on
her desk the same night that she was involved in
voter fraud on a all caps massive scale. Her t
search says Lady Ruby, and her purse says La Ruby,
which is her company. This was not a very smart move.
(13:48):
Her company is called La Ruby's Unique Treasures. It's on
her LinkedIn page. Maybe the Georgia Police or Bill Bars
d o J may want to pay Ruby Freeman a
visit um. The article concludes with an image of her
with a banner that says all caps read lettering crook
gets caught. Oh boy, yeah, that's uh, that's you already
(14:10):
know that's bad news. I mean knowing to like this
online trash, to like Fox News or news Max pipeline.
It's like it always you can always write like link
every Tucker or handy thing, and it's always going to
start off with some weird non kernel of lie uh
that's posted online exactly, and so that's I think that
(14:32):
this exactly what you just said. I feel like the
way that this video moved through the online right wing
blog a sphere digital ecosystem really gives us an idea
of exactly what you're talking about, right, how this sort
of digital ecosystem works. Like it started with Gateway Pundit,
then it goes to O A N, then Trump starts
(14:52):
amplifying it on his Twitter, right, and so like it
starts in this like really kind of what should be
like a fringe site, even though Gateway Pundit did get
White House credentials when Trump was an office. But then
it ends up with Trump amplifying the video that he
got from Gateway Pundit and then Box News talking about it, right,
and so it really doesn't move through this like shitty
pipeline of extremist right wing garbage. So just three days
(15:22):
after Gateway Punditt publishes this, Ruby starts getting harassed and
people are showing up outside of her door and she's
really scared. I'm gonna play a little clip of a
nine one one call that she made grabbing ham and
terrorist great herbans hairs, an harassing phone called and emails
and they came out and made a police report. Um
yesterday and nast night about time. Minutes after night, somebody
(15:45):
was a bamon on the door. And now somebody's bammon
on the door. Can't call any screaming he's there, bammin
on the door, right, crying to a bamon on the door. No,
(16:06):
they are an the wayman, Oh god. So I mean,
she sounds terrified. It's heartbreaking. And this is like a
sixtysomething year old woman, you know, who's making this call
because people are banging on the doors of her house
(16:27):
in the middle of the night and she doesn't know
what to do. It is terrifying mm hmm. And I
think what's also really important to point out here is
the ways that Trump and his cronies specifically used racism
and misogyny to fuel this lie. Like, I don't think
that this lie would have worked the same way had
Ruby and her daughter not been black women. And I
(16:47):
think if we didn't have a digital media climate kind
of ready and willing to validate and amplify the worst
racist lies about black women who we already know are
disproportionately harmed by things like disinformation and harassment and conspiracy series.
I don't think it would have worked the same way,
and I think that you saw that in a lot
of the way that Trump and his allies talked about
(17:08):
these women. I'm gonna play another clip for you from
Rudy Giuliani. I apologize for making you listen to his voice.
Take earlier in the day of Ruby Freeman and Shae Freeman,
Mars and one other gentleman quite obviously surreptitiously passing around
USB ports as if they are vials of heroin or cocaine.
(17:28):
I mean, it's our it's it's obvious to anyone who's
a criminal investigator or prosecutor. They're engaged in surreptitious and
illegal activity again that day and after a week ago,
and they're still walking around Georgia. Why should have been
they should have been uh should been questioned already? There
are places of work, their homes should have been searched
(17:51):
for evidence of balance, for ellis, evidence of USB ports,
for evidence of voter fraud. Oh so, so they the
USB port, what you put the USB drive into Yes,
isn't it interesting how earlier you were like, wow, pretty
weird that their claims of voter fraud involved like briefcases.
(18:12):
That's pretty cartoony. And now he's saying that they're passing
USB drives back and forth to each other like vials
of heroin. And then he says that their house should
be searched for USB ports, like like, which is it?
Is it like a super high tech USB enabled voter
theft or is it briefcases full of ballots? I'm just saying,
(18:32):
like I'm I'm more getting angry as like a nerd
who likes technology. The port is the opening in which
you would insert some kind of USB cable or thumb drive.
That's like being like and they had outlets that they
were passing around. It's like, well, is it the plug
(18:52):
or what are you talking about the thing that goes
into what you're I think what you mean is a
USB drive. So, aside from getting hung up on that,
the like you're saying, this is just so common with
with these like right wing people, because we already get it,
like we know you're anti black racists. That's that's that's
completely clear. And all of the legislation and the like
(19:14):
the rhetoric that's being used. But to even like evoke
like the drug war, to put these women in the
context of the drug war, because that was absolutely he's
referring to a hand to hand crack deal or some ship,
you know what I mean. And he's basically saying, Okay,
black people, you know they're shady because of drugs. Therefore,
(19:35):
what the funk were they doing with those USB ports?
You see, it rights itself and it's this like really
cheap way that allows this racism to just casually continue
because it's like, all right, tick that box, tick that box,
Yet black people yep, yep, that's enough for me. Exactly
like the way that he so casually evokes the like
the drug the drug war, I think it's meant to
(19:56):
be like, y'all know how black people are. There's never
there's why would you You're already basically accusing these women
of vote tampering. Why are you then also evoking drugs?
These women are not like that. That's it just it
just goes to show how when it comes to racism,
exactly like you said, it's these seemingly disparate things gloamed
(20:17):
together just to be like, just by virtue of this
being a black person, something shady is going on, my
virtue of their presence, like he could have said. And
then you see in the video handing each other usb
ports like it was the wire or something. You know
what I mean, that's basically what he's saying, you know,
and that's just hasn't seen the wire. He's not. He's not,
(20:38):
but I'm saying, yeah, of course not. But I'm saying
that's the shorthand that it's evoking, which is essentially to say, look,
we're so racist, we can't even imagine black people committing
this kind of crime of voter fraud. So let me
dumb it down to something that are like our culture
has rammed down your throats as to what black people are,
which are drug dealers or gang members. So let me
(21:00):
re contextualize this voter fraud in this very neat trope
that you're already used to having, like no thought cliches
that you just immediately say yes to. And that's how yeah,
and it's and it's it's sad how quickly that momentum
moves because people really they just need a reason to
act out, like act on their racist beliefs exactly. And
(21:22):
so obviously these women were not passing a USB drive
back and forth, but they were actually passing each other
was a piece of ginger candy. So what Giuliani was saying,
which is complete bs. Yeah. You might also remember that
infamous phone call where Trump called Georgia's Secretary of State
Brad Raethvensburger, asking him to find votes. In that call,
(21:42):
he evoked Ruby Freeman by name. Here's what he said.
We had at least eighteen thousand that's so unpaid. We
had him counted very eight thousand voters having to do
with the roomy Freeman. That's she's a vote scammer, a
(22:03):
professional vote scammer, and hustlers. So he calls her a
professional vote scammer, which and hustler. And I think even
kind of like what Miles was saying, the language that
he uses to talk about her a hustler, a professional scammer,
like it really hearkens back to this, I guess, a
(22:23):
really specific and well worn trope about black women that
I think he's really, in a kind of a savvy way,
trying to hearken back to, like, oh, you know how
black women are all scammers and hustlers exactly. So I
also think kind of to that end, And this is
like a little complicated to talk about, but I think
(22:44):
that's definitely part of it. One of the reasons I
think that this lie took off like it did is
because of the visual of these two black women. Sites
like the Gateway Pundit, who are where who that are
really good at knowing what's going to resonate with their audience,
what's gonna stoke something within their audience as going to
motivate them to click and share. It's probably not surprising
to you that they really used a lot of images
(23:06):
of these women, Like every story had a picture of them,
like a close up of them looking sort of like
they were up to no good, doing something nefarious. And
I think that that those images, I think really added
like a kind of a visual element to the story
that that really allowed it to take hold with racists.
Um on election night. Uh, these women were wearing blonde
(23:27):
hair extensions which contrast with their dark complexions, basically the
exact same hairstyle that I am currently wearing. Ruby owns
a a fashion store like am jewelry store, and so
she has a kind of a flashy personal style. She's
wearing a bedazzled shirt and has a bedazzled purse. I
think that they posted these images so often to pretty
much say, look how black these women are. And I
(23:50):
think Trump and Giuliani saw this video of two black
women counting votes in Georgia, and they knew that they
could say that these black women are the culprits and
that those black women were liars, and those black women
were the reason that Trump lost the election. And I
think the same way that Trump makes a whole thing
of like attacking black women, that's was his thing when
he was in the White House, I think, by black
(24:12):
women exactly exactly. Um. I think that he knew his
base would be poised and primed to believe whatever wild
conjecture that he pulled out of his ass, because they
have a visceral disdain and distrust for black women that
he stokes. And I think, you know, when social media
platforms are the cesspools of racist, sexist garbage, of course
(24:33):
it's going to amplify those lines of thinking. So I
think that Trump knew that his base would be really
ready to believe if they saw this visual of black
women just presimply doing their jobs and you know, not
doing anything wrong in Georgia, that would be enough proof
to convince them that something shady was going down. In
the absence of like actual proof proof that basically his
(24:53):
supporters would be like, hey, black women were involved in
the vote counting process. That should be enough to tell
you that the election was against me, which it wasn't,
because he lost. Exactly what was that he lost the election?
You said election? He did lose? He I mean to check, Yeah,
that's here that he lost, Okay, but yeah, I mean,
it's the same lazy racism. It's like, basically he's trying
(25:15):
to scale up the central part birdwatcher call it's a
black person, you know, because that has been weaponized against
black people for since time immemorial. The mere presence of
blackness is enough for racist people to say something is
afoot here. Just be just off the fucking physical presence
(25:39):
of black people, you know what I mean. And so
to your point, it's it's because all the base probably
all have a very similar like outlook on black American people,
which is like whoo who h. So if that's already
your baseline in thinking about a black person, it doesn't
take much then to just be like and that's bad, right, folks,
(26:00):
and yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, And there's no thought that
needs to go into because like to your point, it's
just like they're just sort of um like drafting off
of the cultural momentum of racism that already exists, like
to the point where we don't really some people just
don't even need facts. It's the fact that they are
black women is quite literally enough exactly. And I think
(26:20):
that there they knew that their base for them that
would be enough. They didn't need any other kind of proof.
Just the fact that black women were in the mix
in Georgia enough said. And this led to really like
like an uptick in very scary online harassment. She says
that she got so many threats wishing death upon her.
(26:41):
One of them said should be in jail with her mother,
and saying things like you should be glad it's not
nineteen twenty, which is obviously like a pretty obvious threat
to like lynch her or reference to lynching. So being
a flapper, yeah, they're not talking about like being a
bootlegger or something. Yeah, that's a that's a inching reference, right,
(27:09):
And so it really goes to show how you know,
we're not talking about just mean messages on the internet.
We're talking about very, very threats. But these women went
through because of these lives. I want to play another
clip of their testimony talking about how this affected their
everyday life. Now. I won't even introduce my self by
(27:33):
my name anymore. I get nervous when I bump into
someone I know in the grocery store who says my name.
I'm heard about who's listening. I get nervous when I
have to give my name for food orders. I'm always
concerned of who's around me. I've lost my name, and
(27:54):
I've lost my reputation. I've lost my sense of security
m all because a group of people, starting with number
forty five and his allah, Rudy Giuliani, decided to scapegoat
me and my door to shape to push their own
(28:15):
lines about how the presidential election was stolen. It honestly
boils my blood to hear her talk about how this
reputation and name that had meant so much to her,
Like she talked about how she used to wear her
name bedazzled on her hat, on her shirts, on her
persons because she was so proud of her name and
(28:35):
now she doesn't even introduce herself by name anymore, and
that is what Trump and Giuliani took from her. It's heartbreaking.
You know, these these women were pillars of their community
and now they're you know, basically resigned to a life
of hiding for their own safety. Yeah, it's it's so
hard to, like you say here that because there's so
(28:57):
many levels of loss that are being experienced by this woman, Like,
you know, just in the context of slavery, right, you've
already lost your identity in your name through chattel slavery,
through the Middle passage, Like you've completely been severed from
your sense of belonging or identity just from being forcibly
(29:20):
brought to this land. And then to go through all
the other things that black people have to have to
go through since the end of slavery, and to have
someone like this who still believes that this country is
worth saying, you know what, this is a way that
I feel like I can give back because this is
giving me something, and I and I have this exchange
(29:42):
feels fair. To only have that lead to something like
this where now you you're doubling back and saying I've
lost my name I've lost my ability to even have
pride in myself. That's like such a level of like, like,
the dimensions of loss are so profound that it's not
just like and I can't even go on Twitter anymore.
(30:04):
It's no, I've actually become afraid to identify myself because
someone's lies are fueling a bunch of violent thoughts and
deeds from other people. That's really funny. It's really hard
to hear that because she doesn't deserve that. And I
really feel bad when people are so invested in how
(30:24):
good this country is and wanting to stick up for
it and fight for it, and you're getting crumbs back constantly.
And there's another part of that too that feels it's
really difficult for me to watch and like kind of
reckon with as I see this all happen. Is the
same thing with like that one Capital police officer, that
one black officer who was fighting off this whole crowd,
And I'm like, in a way, I'm like, for what, man,
(30:47):
because what are they given? I mean, what how has
how have things? How have those how have the needs
of our community actually been heard or met? But somehow
the resilience to come back and keep believing. It's like
it's it like makes me feel bad that I'm cynical.
It makes me feel like, I don't know, is that
the Is that the best place to put my energy
or not. But that's just I think that's always the
(31:09):
darkness that exists when you look at these kinds of
situations where especially Black Americans are like, I actually believe
in the good of this country, only to have your
own blackness weaponized against you to the point that you
have you've you're in hiding. It's just this level of
docks sing is it's like so inhumane and cruel, like
(31:32):
they're they're they're literally in the amount of they didn't
have to be there. They didn't have to they didn't
have to work in the in the voting polls, they
didn't have to help people. They were there to help
people vote. They were there to help people vote, and
they've now docks them to the point that they're afraid
to use their own name. That is that that is America,
and that is disgusting. Just yeah, I just wish um
(31:55):
it's funny. You know, like my grandmother she loved it
as flashy the black woman. You go to church, you
put your nice wig on, you know what I mean,
the wild metallic jacket and stuff that's like part of culturally,
that's part of how we have a sense of pride
of what little we have we have left because we
(32:18):
were completely excluded from the the fruits of slave labor,
you know. And then to even say, like there's something
I can see like you like, you know, some people
can easily identify with what you're talking about. Other people
may have a harder time. But that was another part
that really is hard to hear, is like I used
(32:38):
to like to wear my things, Like the little bits
of joy that she was able to extract from her
life were taken away from her. And I think that's it,
and how easily and how quickly that happens should really
be frightening for all people and not just people who
are are black or women or people of color. It's
the idea that like this is kind of the game
(32:58):
that people are playing now. They're like, you know, will
lie on you and we don't care what the toll
is because we'll just sick a mob on you. Yeah,
it's it's difficult to hear me to to listen to
what you're saying. She reminds me so much of my
own mother and grandmother, who also like to wear their
big hats and dress flashy and be bedazzled and have
long nails, and that that's part of a cultural identity
(33:21):
of what makes them who they are. It's it's a
beautiful way that they express who they are to the world.
And weaponizing your own identity against you having these things
that make you feel like you, that make you feel
like you're showing up in the world and telling the
world who you are. Turning those things against you is
a different kind of cruelty that I that I don't
(33:43):
know that everybody can really understand what that is like. No,
because you look at people who are like, well, these
other people have been canceled on the right or whatever,
and like they're a shamed or whatever. It's like, no, man,
Kyle Rittenhouse can walk into some bar in Texas and
they'll cheer for him, and he'll be out here with
his chest outing I'm Kyle House. You know what I mean.
That's he hasn't lost anything, He's only gained something because
(34:06):
he's it's only rallied more violent people like people around him.
Whereas this is just like to your point, weaponizing your
own existence against you. That is a that battles lost
basically immediately, at least psychologically for the person who is
the subject of it. It's really heartbreaking. Yeah. Then like
part of me was liked, stop fucking helping this place.
(34:30):
They don't give a funk look at what they do,
you know what I mean? And but there, But I
think it's really important to not become that. You can't
get to that level of cynicism if you are going
to continue. And that's a huge lesson I think most
Black people carry within them, is you. I mean, you
can't give up because we could have given up, We
(34:50):
could have given up hundreds of years ago. But there
has to be that sense that there is something on
the other side of it to keep you going. That
it's when it comes out in the kind of cruel
way to like use the optimism of these women to say,
you know what, I think, I think this could be
something good, and then it turned into something just the
antithesis of that, just tragedy upon tragedy. Yeah, this is
(35:13):
one of those situations that makes it, to your point,
makes it really hard for me to be optimistic about
the state of things. Like they were just so cruelly
discarded and used, and no amount of money can make
up for what they went through, Like they should get
all the money they deserve, all the money they should
sue everybody. No amount of money will make up for
(35:35):
what they have been through. Yeah, unless you have like
a gigantic neuralizer from Men in Black and you can
just aim it at the whole state of Georgia and
be like, yo, look up in the sky real quickly.
All right, girl, put your bejeweled hat back on, you
do it? Ruby? Like that really would be the only way, truly.
So we've talked about what Ruby and Shay went through,
and next week on part two, we'll be looking at
(35:57):
the major players who are behind the harassment campaign against them.
Spoiler alert, Kanye West and r Kelly are like tangentially involved,
and will also be looking at the wider impact that
the normalization of attacks on election workers like Luby and
Shay have for all of us. Internet Hate Machine is
a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from
(36:18):
cool Zone Media, check out our website cool zone media
dot com, or find us on the I Heart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Host
Bridget Todd
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com