October 26, 2022 • 20 mins
Black women are sometimes called “canaries in the coal mine” for online harms. On this preview of Internet Hate Machine, Bridget Todd charts how harm against Black women online has led to our current social and political landscape.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
My name is bridget Todd, and I am here with
my producer, Sophie Hey bridget Hey listeners, so you might
already know me from my podcast There are No Girls
on the Internet, And as you can probably tell from
that title, I make podcasts about the Internet, specifically how
people who are traditionally marginalized, so women, black folks, queer folks,
(00:21):
trans folks, sex workers, low income folks and the like,
have shaped what it means to be on the Internet.
And I do that because I know that making sure
the contributions of these communities are in the spotlight takes intention.
It's already really easy for these communities and their voices
to be overlooked unless we make a real point to
do so. So it's already hard enough to make sure
(00:43):
the experiences of marginalized people are not overlooked. But when
you add in the ephemeral nature of the Internet, it
becomes even less likely that these voices and their contributions
and experiences will be chronicled. The Internet moves quickly, tweets
are scrubbed, websites come down. Who will remember what happens
online if we don't do the work of archiving it
(01:03):
and building monuments to it. So that's what I've been doing,
and I've gotten to do a lot of that work
about some of the ways that brilliant, marginalized people have
been using the Internet to make culture and art and movements,
and it has been so inspiring. But I am sad
to say that as true as it is that traditionally
marginalized people are doing really cool ship online, it is
(01:25):
also true that those same people are the ones who
are being targeted online in really scary and infuriating ways.
And when it happens, it can feel like it just
goes overlooked. You know, we don't really get the opportunity
to learn from it or take anything away from it,
and as the Internet does, everyone just kind of moves on.
And you know what, I don't like that. So on
(01:46):
this podcast, Internet Hate Machine, I'm trying to right that wrong.
We'll be telling the stories of women who were harassed online,
how it happened, why it happened, and what it all
means for the rest of us, because I think there
is this real misconception about online harassment that it is individual.
You know, when you see someone being harassed on the internet,
(02:06):
people think, wow, I wonder what she did to be
deserving of that kind of treatment, or they might think
I am glad I am not her. But the truth is,
harassment online isn't just individual. It's systemic, and it's institutional,
and even if we specifically are not the ones on
the receiving end of it, it still has really big
implications for all of us. The first time that I
(02:29):
really saw this play out on build time was with
former Saturday Night Live comedian Leslie Jones, and her story,
which is one of the stories that we will talk
about in depth this season, is one that really opened
my eyes. So, Sophie, do you remember Leslie Jones? Do
you know what happened with her? Yeah? Leslie jen is
one of the best performers on SNL and all time
(02:50):
great really just one of the funniest people ever who
was kind of at the time, somebody who seemed to
really have Twitter comedy down and was very much loved
universally get absolutely harassed by the Internet, specifically by one
(03:11):
guy who I recall saying it stuck with me, saying
that trolling was important and that with like no remorse
for the the things that he did, and I'm sure
it continues to do to two people to this day,
I want to tell me more, Well, absolutely, you are
(03:33):
entirely correct. So in all of my research on the
way that online harassment works, I've seen time and time
again that Milo Napolis, former tech editor at right bart
News and right Wing ship Head, really ushered in that
wave of trolling being seen as a form of activism
in and of itself. Milo Unapolis represents the tip of
(03:53):
the iceberg in a rising tide of hate and abuse
in social media when he clearly sees as a noble
appropriate trolling is very important. Trolling is absolutely essential. America
needs more trolling because trolls so the the only people who
tell the truth these days. Many joined him on this crusade. Mr.
Trolling is important in himself my cool and so he
(04:16):
really ushered that in as like a vibe where people
who were trolling in this way saw it as a
form of activism and saw it as a way to
reclaim and build political and social power online and cultural
power online. And so Leslie Jones, I completely agree with you.
She was all time great on Saturday Night Live, and
she was one of those sort of early celebrities who
(04:38):
was good at Twitter. You know that that brand of celebrity.
She was known for live tweeting things like the Olympics
or other big events, and everyone loved her right like
she was be loved on Twitter. Her tweets live tweeting
events would be you know, chronicled in those BuzzFeed list
of calls Michael thirty of Leslie Jones best tweets abou
(05:00):
the Olympics, things like that. It was very of a
of an era, I guess I'll put it that way.
And so her tweeting, her use of the platform Twitter
really got great press for Twitter as a platform, right Like,
so many articles were spotlighting the way that she had
really used the platform to create her brand. You know,
she was like winning Twitter. And I feel like at
(05:22):
the time, Twitter wasn't having as much of a moment
as some of the other social media apps, and the
content and discourse happening on Twitter was really able to
breathe new life into a Internet staple that was kind
of fading behind some of these other popular social media platforms.
(05:44):
Completely agree, and I would also side note. I would
also add that Twitter would not be what it is
if it was not for the labor and creativity and
time of black folks showing up on the platform, right,
and so that is just Twitter. It was a huge it.
I mean, if there wasn't black Twitter, and Twitter would
be so boring a thousand percent. And you know, I
(06:06):
think that's one of the things that makes stories like
Leslie so infuriating is that platforms owe a huge financial
debt to black women and black folks showing up on
their platform and making it someplace people want to be.
And so then to turn around in not really take
it seriously when those same voices are threatened and harassed
(06:27):
and abused on their platform is a real problem for me.
It really illustrates a disconnect that I think that tech
leaders have where they are not actually making policies that
keep the people that make their platforms great, They're actually
not making policies that then allow for those people to
show up safely on their platforms. And so Leslie Jones,
when she was cast in the all female reboot of Ghostbusters,
(06:50):
was the target of a really nasty harassment campaign by Milo,
and it got so bad that eventually she left the platform.
Um after she left, Jack Dorsey, the n CEO of Twitter,
personally intervened. He kicked Milo off the platform and welcomed
her back, which you know, that's great. I'm glad that
that he did that. But I don't think that you
(07:13):
should have to be a celebrity with those kinds of
connections in order to get a platform like Twitter to
take it seriously when you're being harassed in this way.
As you might know, Milo got his start at bright
Bart News, which was co founded by Steve Bannon. So
watching all of this unfold, watching Steve Bannon, this person
who empowered and emboldened Milo, who would go on to
(07:34):
target Leslie Jones for this racist, sexist hate campaign online,
you know, just for being a comedian who didn't do
anything except for be a black woman taking up space
on the internet. Watching the person who enabled this become
a White House advisor to former President Trump deeply, deeply
upset me. I would imagine that that kind of behavior
(07:56):
would make you unfit for public life, not rewarded with
a powerful, influential White House position. And so watching this,
it was this wild convergence of culture and the Internet
and social media and political power, and I thought, this
means something. Certainly, this means something. And the thing was,
(08:17):
we didn't really talk about it. You know, Milo got
kicked off Twitter, Leslie Jones came back to Twitter, Steve
Bannon went to the White House and then exited the
White House, and everybody, as we do on the Internet,
just kind of moved on like it was just a footnote.
And I remember watching this interview time and suddenly this
thing that I had always felt existing as a black
(08:38):
woman on the Internet but could never really name or
put my finger on, suddenly that came into much sharper focus,
the harassment and abuse of women, specifically black women on
the Internet. I saw it as being at the heart
of our politics, our discourse, and being baked into the
experience of our social media platforms. I realized, it's not
(08:59):
above ug, It's a feature, and it's a feature that
we don't even really talk openly about. So there are
a couple of reasons I think that I could always
feel this but can never really put a name on it.
One is the nature of the Internet itself. You know,
things move quickly on the Internet, and there's not exactly
(09:22):
room or time for things like moratoriums or look backs
to really take an accounting of what happened and why.
When something happens online, we all just kind of move
on and forget about it. It creates a situation where
things can happen again and again and again and again.
Two is just good old fashion racism and sexism. In
nineteen sixty four, Malcolm X wrote, the most disrespected person
(09:45):
in America is the black woman. The most unprotected person
in America is the black woman. The most neglected person
in America is the black woman. And the experiences that
we have online as black women, and the way people
respond to them or don't respond to them, really show
was that Malcolm X knew what he was talking about
way back when in nineteen four. I've spent most of
(10:05):
my career doing research into the ways that marginalized people
show up on the Internet and social media, and the
research is super clear that black women are disproportionately targeted
for things like online harassment, online abuse, threats, and disinformation online.
You know, I take no pleasure in saying this, but
it is the truth. Nobody, and by nobody, I mean
(10:26):
nobody with power really cares about black women like that.
When harm happens to black women, it is just overlooked.
This is not just true on the internet, It's also
true in the real world too, and it feeds into
the problem because bad actors, people out there who want
to cause harm to others, they know this. They know
that they can target black women, test out and refine
(10:48):
and perfect their tactics on black women, and that those
women do speak up, nobody with power will really listen
or take it seriously. We've seen this play out time
and time again. For instance, at think most people who
are online have heard of gamer Gate. So if they
have you heard of this unfortunately? Yes? And if you
have it, brave, we are jealous. Yes, if you haven't
(11:12):
heard of gamer Gate, I want your life. I wish
I could have a life that resembles yours. But I
would say that most people on the Internet or who
were on the Internet around the time that happened, are
familiar with it. So for folks who don't know what
that is, it was a time where mostly men online
horribly harassed mostly women online under the guys of being
big mad about ethics in gaming journalism, and it got
(11:35):
lots of attention, lots of press. You know, I think
most people can probably remember it, But how many of
those same people know that the same folks responsible for
gamer Gate, for using those exact same tactics on black
women years before gamer Gate, women like age Vr Richards,
who was targeted for racist haraspment online after she tweeted
about not really liking a crass joke that she overheard
(11:56):
about dongles while she was at a work event. She
was horribly harassed and it was something that I think
that people might not even remember. You know. I did
an interview with this researcher, Sharine Mitchell, and during our interview,
she was, like, most people know about gamer Gate, nobody
talks about dongle gay. Here's a bit of my conversation
with researcher Sharine Mitchell. So I want to talk a bit.
(12:18):
You mentioned this like preparing women and girls for this
moment that we're in. Now. I want to talk about
that moment, particularly as it pertains to things like disinformation.
How are you seeing disinformation impact women online, specifically black
women and women of color. How are you seeing a
play out? Yes? Absolutely, you and I know about women
like Shafika Hussin and Anissa Crockett who basically helped to identify,
(12:43):
you know, fake accounts pretending to be black women. Now,
I was also looking at that as well as looking
at dongle Gate, and so I want to make sure
I mark donagle Gate here because when people started worrying
about on harassment, they started worrying about it when it
was gamer Gate, and the media got hold of it
before gamer Gate was dongle Gay. So I followed the
whole storyline about this black woman m who I happened
(13:04):
to know, who was speaking up about sexism in the
tech industry, and she had coordinated attacks against her. That
was the first moment after our first survey that I
realized that not only would coordinate attacks happen, but people
would defend those who are attacking her, including people who
write books about her and basically say that she was
(13:25):
the most egregious in her behavior, that calling out sexism
and racism was egregious, And I was like, uncle gay,
what was she talking about? And even me, as somebody
who is like pretty online, I had forgotten that I
had witnessed that go down, and I didn't even contextualize
it within a larger context of the conversation of online harassment.
(13:47):
I had completely compartmentalized it. And so I think it
really shows that even people who spend a lot of
time on the Internet or talk about the Internet might
not always be able to see what's happening when the targets,
the people at the center of these situations are black women.
I mean, even when you pitched the show to the
Cool Zone team, doncle gate was one of the first
(14:09):
topic ideas you had, and I was like, oh, doncle gate,
And I think maybe one other person on our team
knew what that was. And I would say that, you know,
the Cool Zone media team are are people who are
highly online and and and should know about this, and
yet it's just another thing that we've overlooked in this
systemic issue exactly. And I think it feeds into how
(14:35):
bad the issue is because you know, tech reporters and
folks at places like Wired, I really like a lot
of their journalism. But frankly, a lot of those, a
lot of the people making content about the Internet just
don't necessarily have the range to really get into the
nitty gritty of the intersection of race and gender and
identity that you would need to really fully account for
(14:58):
what happened in these stories. I just think people don't
have the range. If you've an incredibly white newsroom or
an incredibly white team, it might be difficult to really
get into the intersections and the complexities of how these
issues actually do play out, and so they go overlooked
and we're not really able to learn from them, or
prepare for them, or take much away from them. Another
good example would be Shafika Hudson, who in actually reported
(15:22):
and called out bad actors using fake accounts to impersonate
black women to destabilize Internet communities. The women who were
at the heart of that being targeted, they spoke up,
they reported these things to Twitter, and they were basically ignored.
So why didn't I get the same amount of coverage
or recognition as something like gamer Gate? And if it had,
maybe somebody with power might have listened and taken it seriously.
(15:44):
And I think maybe things would be different now, you know,
For one, gamer Gate might have gone down a little
bit differently. Or consider the fact that six years after
Shafika Hudson was reporting people impersonating black folks on Twitter
to cause chaos, white supremacist groups used that very same
tactic during the racial justice uprisings of to make it
(16:05):
seem as though black activists were calling for people to
loot homes and cause violence on the street. Twitter confirmed this.
Twitter confirmed that white supremacist groups were impersonating black people
on Twitter. They did not, though, explain why, if they
knew this was a tactic years earlier that was being
used to destabilize their platforms, why they did fuck all
to prevent it and did nothing to prevent it from
(16:26):
happening at a larger scale down the line and zooming
out even further. These tactics went on to be the
very same tactics that bad actors used to try to
destabilize our elections and democracy. A Senate inquiry confirmed in
twenty nine that that same tactic and personating black people
on social media was used by Russian assets in an
attempt to spread distrust during the election, posing as Black
(16:48):
Lives Matter activists or like black groups on social media accounts.
Online bad actors tried to inflame anger around things like
police brutality in the lead up to the election, and
the inquiry found that no group was targeted more than
black folks online, and they were trying to use drumming
up all of this this chaos and anger as a
means of either getting black folks to vote for Donald
(17:09):
Trump or did to stay home on election Day And again,
had someone with power actually listened when these black women
years prior we're speaking up about what they experienced, maybe
things would be different, but they were ignored. I think
that not listening to Black women when we speak up
about our experiences online has big consequences, not just for
(17:32):
the women who are targeted, but for all of us,
because when usoom out even further, we're seeing tried and
true tactics of online harassment become an animating feature in
our political landscape and discourse. And what's worse, it's becoming normalized.
You know, Black women are sometimes called the canaries and
the coal mine for online harms. First it happens to us,
(17:52):
and then it happens to everyone, and bad actors use
the same harassment tactics that they were able to perfect
on Black women on others. And I would argue that
have people with power, you know, leadership at tech companies,
policymakers and elected officials. Had they actually listened when black
women were being targeted by this kind of thing and
they spoke up about what they were experiencing, we might
not be in our current political situation, which frankly I
(18:16):
can only describe as a health scape. There. I mean
think about it. The Internet has been completely weaponized. It's
near impossible to have any kind of meaningful discourse about
any kind of real topic on our largest communication platforms
because the leaders who run those platforms have built them
to incentivize and amplify lies, garbage, and grits were more
(18:37):
polarized than ever, and the grifters are basically running the show.
And the reason I want to talk about this right
now is that we're going into a midterm election where
we're seeing historic numbers of women and women of color
running for local office. But the sad reality is at
this point, serving your community by running for office also
means opening you and your family up to being attacked
and harassed online in ways that male candidates just do
(18:59):
not have to worry about. I mean women like Congresswoman
Jaia Paul, where a man went from sending her angry,
threatening emails to showing up outside of her house with
a gun. Because we know these threats may start online,
but they do not always stay online. This climate creates
a barrier for women, whether they're running for office or
serving their communities by working as election workers or poll workers.
(19:19):
We have a national shortage of election workers heading into
an election, because who would want to do any of
that if it means they're opening themselves and their family
up to threats, intimidation and harassment. You know, if you
watch the January six hearing, you probably remember the way
that two black poll workers, Shay and Ruby Freemen, were
personally attacked by Trump and Rudy Giuliani, who baselessly, publicly
(19:41):
and repeatedly accused these women of tampering with votes in
the election, until angry people descended on the home of
their elderly grandmother and they had to flee for their
own safety. And these are just everyday women. It's not
like they had a security detail. The whole point is
to silence women and to keep us from participating in
civic and public life, to create such a high cost
(20:03):
to doing so that it just isn't worth it. And
we haven't really had a real examination of how the
harassment of marginalized people online is a big part of
how we got here. So why not do that now.
Let's not just move on from it, as I know
that we're so apt to do on the Internet. Let's
examine it so we can learn from it. So on
(20:23):
this season of Internet hate Machine we'll be exploring how
online violence and harassment has led us to this political
and social moment that we're in, and don't worry, we'll
also be diving into what can be done about it.
And I know it's gonna be a wild ride, but
I hope that all of y'all are down to take
this ride with me. Internet Hate Machine is a production
(20:45):
of cool Zone Media. More podcasts from cool Zone Media,
check out our website cool zone media dot com, or
find us on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
My name is bridget Todd, and I am here with
my producer, Sophie Hey bridget Hey listeners, so you might
already know me from my podcast There are No Girls
on the Internet, And as you can probably tell from
that title, I make podcasts about the Internet, specifically how
people who are traditionally marginalized, so women, black folks, queer folks,
(00:21):
trans folks, sex workers, low income folks and the like,
have shaped what it means to be on the Internet.
And I do that because I know that making sure
the contributions of these communities are in the spotlight takes intention.
It's already really easy for these communities and their voices
to be overlooked unless we make a real point to
do so. So it's already hard enough to make sure
(00:43):
the experiences of marginalized people are not overlooked. But when
you add in the ephemeral nature of the Internet, it
becomes even less likely that these voices and their contributions
and experiences will be chronicled. The Internet moves quickly, tweets
are scrubbed, websites come down. Who will remember what happens
online if we don't do the work of archiving it
(01:03):
and building monuments to it. So that's what I've been doing,
and I've gotten to do a lot of that work
about some of the ways that brilliant, marginalized people have
been using the Internet to make culture and art and movements,
and it has been so inspiring. But I am sad
to say that as true as it is that traditionally
marginalized people are doing really cool ship online, it is
(01:25):
also true that those same people are the ones who
are being targeted online in really scary and infuriating ways.
And when it happens, it can feel like it just
goes overlooked. You know, we don't really get the opportunity
to learn from it or take anything away from it,
and as the Internet does, everyone just kind of moves on.
And you know what, I don't like that. So on
(01:46):
this podcast, Internet Hate Machine, I'm trying to right that wrong.
We'll be telling the stories of women who were harassed online,
how it happened, why it happened, and what it all
means for the rest of us, because I think there
is this real misconception about online harassment that it is individual.
You know, when you see someone being harassed on the internet,
(02:06):
people think, wow, I wonder what she did to be
deserving of that kind of treatment, or they might think
I am glad I am not her. But the truth is,
harassment online isn't just individual. It's systemic, and it's institutional,
and even if we specifically are not the ones on
the receiving end of it, it still has really big
implications for all of us. The first time that I
(02:29):
really saw this play out on build time was with
former Saturday Night Live comedian Leslie Jones, and her story,
which is one of the stories that we will talk
about in depth this season, is one that really opened
my eyes. So, Sophie, do you remember Leslie Jones? Do
you know what happened with her? Yeah? Leslie jen is
one of the best performers on SNL and all time
(02:50):
great really just one of the funniest people ever who
was kind of at the time, somebody who seemed to
really have Twitter comedy down and was very much loved
universally get absolutely harassed by the Internet, specifically by one
(03:11):
guy who I recall saying it stuck with me, saying
that trolling was important and that with like no remorse
for the the things that he did, and I'm sure
it continues to do to two people to this day,
I want to tell me more, Well, absolutely, you are
(03:33):
entirely correct. So in all of my research on the
way that online harassment works, I've seen time and time
again that Milo Napolis, former tech editor at right bart
News and right Wing ship Head, really ushered in that
wave of trolling being seen as a form of activism
in and of itself. Milo Unapolis represents the tip of
(03:53):
the iceberg in a rising tide of hate and abuse
in social media when he clearly sees as a noble
appropriate trolling is very important. Trolling is absolutely essential. America
needs more trolling because trolls so the the only people who
tell the truth these days. Many joined him on this crusade. Mr.
Trolling is important in himself my cool and so he
(04:16):
really ushered that in as like a vibe where people
who were trolling in this way saw it as a
form of activism and saw it as a way to
reclaim and build political and social power online and cultural
power online. And so Leslie Jones, I completely agree with you.
She was all time great on Saturday Night Live, and
she was one of those sort of early celebrities who
(04:38):
was good at Twitter. You know that that brand of celebrity.
She was known for live tweeting things like the Olympics
or other big events, and everyone loved her right like
she was be loved on Twitter. Her tweets live tweeting
events would be you know, chronicled in those BuzzFeed list
of calls Michael thirty of Leslie Jones best tweets abou
(05:00):
the Olympics, things like that. It was very of a
of an era, I guess I'll put it that way.
And so her tweeting, her use of the platform Twitter
really got great press for Twitter as a platform, right Like,
so many articles were spotlighting the way that she had
really used the platform to create her brand. You know,
she was like winning Twitter. And I feel like at
(05:22):
the time, Twitter wasn't having as much of a moment
as some of the other social media apps, and the
content and discourse happening on Twitter was really able to
breathe new life into a Internet staple that was kind
of fading behind some of these other popular social media platforms.
(05:44):
Completely agree, and I would also side note. I would
also add that Twitter would not be what it is
if it was not for the labor and creativity and
time of black folks showing up on the platform, right,
and so that is just Twitter. It was a huge it.
I mean, if there wasn't black Twitter, and Twitter would
be so boring a thousand percent. And you know, I
(06:06):
think that's one of the things that makes stories like
Leslie so infuriating is that platforms owe a huge financial
debt to black women and black folks showing up on
their platform and making it someplace people want to be.
And so then to turn around in not really take
it seriously when those same voices are threatened and harassed
(06:27):
and abused on their platform is a real problem for me.
It really illustrates a disconnect that I think that tech
leaders have where they are not actually making policies that
keep the people that make their platforms great, They're actually
not making policies that then allow for those people to
show up safely on their platforms. And so Leslie Jones,
when she was cast in the all female reboot of Ghostbusters,
(06:50):
was the target of a really nasty harassment campaign by Milo,
and it got so bad that eventually she left the platform.
Um after she left, Jack Dorsey, the n CEO of Twitter,
personally intervened. He kicked Milo off the platform and welcomed
her back, which you know, that's great. I'm glad that
that he did that. But I don't think that you
(07:13):
should have to be a celebrity with those kinds of
connections in order to get a platform like Twitter to
take it seriously when you're being harassed in this way.
As you might know, Milo got his start at bright
Bart News, which was co founded by Steve Bannon. So
watching all of this unfold, watching Steve Bannon, this person
who empowered and emboldened Milo, who would go on to
(07:34):
target Leslie Jones for this racist, sexist hate campaign online,
you know, just for being a comedian who didn't do
anything except for be a black woman taking up space
on the internet. Watching the person who enabled this become
a White House advisor to former President Trump deeply, deeply
upset me. I would imagine that that kind of behavior
(07:56):
would make you unfit for public life, not rewarded with
a powerful, influential White House position. And so watching this,
it was this wild convergence of culture and the Internet
and social media and political power, and I thought, this
means something. Certainly, this means something. And the thing was,
(08:17):
we didn't really talk about it. You know, Milo got
kicked off Twitter, Leslie Jones came back to Twitter, Steve
Bannon went to the White House and then exited the
White House, and everybody, as we do on the Internet,
just kind of moved on like it was just a footnote.
And I remember watching this interview time and suddenly this
thing that I had always felt existing as a black
(08:38):
woman on the Internet but could never really name or
put my finger on, suddenly that came into much sharper focus,
the harassment and abuse of women, specifically black women on
the Internet. I saw it as being at the heart
of our politics, our discourse, and being baked into the
experience of our social media platforms. I realized, it's not
(08:59):
above ug, It's a feature, and it's a feature that
we don't even really talk openly about. So there are
a couple of reasons I think that I could always
feel this but can never really put a name on it.
One is the nature of the Internet itself. You know,
things move quickly on the Internet, and there's not exactly
(09:22):
room or time for things like moratoriums or look backs
to really take an accounting of what happened and why.
When something happens online, we all just kind of move
on and forget about it. It creates a situation where
things can happen again and again and again and again.
Two is just good old fashion racism and sexism. In
nineteen sixty four, Malcolm X wrote, the most disrespected person
(09:45):
in America is the black woman. The most unprotected person
in America is the black woman. The most neglected person
in America is the black woman. And the experiences that
we have online as black women, and the way people
respond to them or don't respond to them, really show
was that Malcolm X knew what he was talking about
way back when in nineteen four. I've spent most of
(10:05):
my career doing research into the ways that marginalized people
show up on the Internet and social media, and the
research is super clear that black women are disproportionately targeted
for things like online harassment, online abuse, threats, and disinformation online.
You know, I take no pleasure in saying this, but
it is the truth. Nobody, and by nobody, I mean
(10:26):
nobody with power really cares about black women like that.
When harm happens to black women, it is just overlooked.
This is not just true on the internet, It's also
true in the real world too, and it feeds into
the problem because bad actors, people out there who want
to cause harm to others, they know this. They know
that they can target black women, test out and refine
(10:48):
and perfect their tactics on black women, and that those
women do speak up, nobody with power will really listen
or take it seriously. We've seen this play out time
and time again. For instance, at think most people who
are online have heard of gamer Gate. So if they
have you heard of this unfortunately? Yes? And if you
have it, brave, we are jealous. Yes, if you haven't
(11:12):
heard of gamer Gate, I want your life. I wish
I could have a life that resembles yours. But I
would say that most people on the Internet or who
were on the Internet around the time that happened, are
familiar with it. So for folks who don't know what
that is, it was a time where mostly men online
horribly harassed mostly women online under the guys of being
big mad about ethics in gaming journalism, and it got
(11:35):
lots of attention, lots of press. You know, I think
most people can probably remember it, But how many of
those same people know that the same folks responsible for
gamer Gate, for using those exact same tactics on black
women years before gamer Gate, women like age Vr Richards,
who was targeted for racist haraspment online after she tweeted
about not really liking a crass joke that she overheard
(11:56):
about dongles while she was at a work event. She
was horribly harassed and it was something that I think
that people might not even remember. You know. I did
an interview with this researcher, Sharine Mitchell, and during our interview,
she was, like, most people know about gamer Gate, nobody
talks about dongle gay. Here's a bit of my conversation
with researcher Sharine Mitchell. So I want to talk a bit.
(12:18):
You mentioned this like preparing women and girls for this
moment that we're in. Now. I want to talk about
that moment, particularly as it pertains to things like disinformation.
How are you seeing disinformation impact women online, specifically black
women and women of color. How are you seeing a
play out? Yes? Absolutely, you and I know about women
like Shafika Hussin and Anissa Crockett who basically helped to identify,
(12:43):
you know, fake accounts pretending to be black women. Now,
I was also looking at that as well as looking
at dongle Gate, and so I want to make sure
I mark donagle Gate here because when people started worrying
about on harassment, they started worrying about it when it
was gamer Gate, and the media got hold of it
before gamer Gate was dongle Gay. So I followed the
whole storyline about this black woman m who I happened
(13:04):
to know, who was speaking up about sexism in the
tech industry, and she had coordinated attacks against her. That
was the first moment after our first survey that I
realized that not only would coordinate attacks happen, but people
would defend those who are attacking her, including people who
write books about her and basically say that she was
(13:25):
the most egregious in her behavior, that calling out sexism
and racism was egregious, And I was like, uncle gay,
what was she talking about? And even me, as somebody
who is like pretty online, I had forgotten that I
had witnessed that go down, and I didn't even contextualize
it within a larger context of the conversation of online harassment.
(13:47):
I had completely compartmentalized it. And so I think it
really shows that even people who spend a lot of
time on the Internet or talk about the Internet might
not always be able to see what's happening when the targets,
the people at the center of these situations are black women.
I mean, even when you pitched the show to the
Cool Zone team, doncle gate was one of the first
(14:09):
topic ideas you had, and I was like, oh, doncle gate,
And I think maybe one other person on our team
knew what that was. And I would say that, you know,
the Cool Zone media team are are people who are
highly online and and and should know about this, and
yet it's just another thing that we've overlooked in this
systemic issue exactly. And I think it feeds into how
(14:35):
bad the issue is because you know, tech reporters and
folks at places like Wired, I really like a lot
of their journalism. But frankly, a lot of those, a
lot of the people making content about the Internet just
don't necessarily have the range to really get into the
nitty gritty of the intersection of race and gender and
identity that you would need to really fully account for
(14:58):
what happened in these stories. I just think people don't
have the range. If you've an incredibly white newsroom or
an incredibly white team, it might be difficult to really
get into the intersections and the complexities of how these
issues actually do play out, and so they go overlooked
and we're not really able to learn from them, or
prepare for them, or take much away from them. Another
good example would be Shafika Hudson, who in actually reported
(15:22):
and called out bad actors using fake accounts to impersonate
black women to destabilize Internet communities. The women who were
at the heart of that being targeted, they spoke up,
they reported these things to Twitter, and they were basically ignored.
So why didn't I get the same amount of coverage
or recognition as something like gamer Gate? And if it had,
maybe somebody with power might have listened and taken it seriously.
(15:44):
And I think maybe things would be different now, you know,
For one, gamer Gate might have gone down a little
bit differently. Or consider the fact that six years after
Shafika Hudson was reporting people impersonating black folks on Twitter
to cause chaos, white supremacist groups used that very same
tactic during the racial justice uprisings of to make it
(16:05):
seem as though black activists were calling for people to
loot homes and cause violence on the street. Twitter confirmed this.
Twitter confirmed that white supremacist groups were impersonating black people
on Twitter. They did not, though, explain why, if they
knew this was a tactic years earlier that was being
used to destabilize their platforms, why they did fuck all
to prevent it and did nothing to prevent it from
(16:26):
happening at a larger scale down the line and zooming
out even further. These tactics went on to be the
very same tactics that bad actors used to try to
destabilize our elections and democracy. A Senate inquiry confirmed in
twenty nine that that same tactic and personating black people
on social media was used by Russian assets in an
attempt to spread distrust during the election, posing as Black
(16:48):
Lives Matter activists or like black groups on social media accounts.
Online bad actors tried to inflame anger around things like
police brutality in the lead up to the election, and
the inquiry found that no group was targeted more than
black folks online, and they were trying to use drumming
up all of this this chaos and anger as a
means of either getting black folks to vote for Donald
(17:09):
Trump or did to stay home on election Day And again,
had someone with power actually listened when these black women
years prior we're speaking up about what they experienced, maybe
things would be different, but they were ignored. I think
that not listening to Black women when we speak up
about our experiences online has big consequences, not just for
(17:32):
the women who are targeted, but for all of us,
because when usoom out even further, we're seeing tried and
true tactics of online harassment become an animating feature in
our political landscape and discourse. And what's worse, it's becoming normalized.
You know, Black women are sometimes called the canaries and
the coal mine for online harms. First it happens to us,
(17:52):
and then it happens to everyone, and bad actors use
the same harassment tactics that they were able to perfect
on Black women on others. And I would argue that
have people with power, you know, leadership at tech companies,
policymakers and elected officials. Had they actually listened when black
women were being targeted by this kind of thing and
they spoke up about what they were experiencing, we might
not be in our current political situation, which frankly I
(18:16):
can only describe as a health scape. There. I mean
think about it. The Internet has been completely weaponized. It's
near impossible to have any kind of meaningful discourse about
any kind of real topic on our largest communication platforms
because the leaders who run those platforms have built them
to incentivize and amplify lies, garbage, and grits were more
(18:37):
polarized than ever, and the grifters are basically running the show.
And the reason I want to talk about this right
now is that we're going into a midterm election where
we're seeing historic numbers of women and women of color
running for local office. But the sad reality is at
this point, serving your community by running for office also
means opening you and your family up to being attacked
and harassed online in ways that male candidates just do
(18:59):
not have to worry about. I mean women like Congresswoman
Jaia Paul, where a man went from sending her angry,
threatening emails to showing up outside of her house with
a gun. Because we know these threats may start online,
but they do not always stay online. This climate creates
a barrier for women, whether they're running for office or
serving their communities by working as election workers or poll workers.
(19:19):
We have a national shortage of election workers heading into
an election, because who would want to do any of
that if it means they're opening themselves and their family
up to threats, intimidation and harassment. You know, if you
watch the January six hearing, you probably remember the way
that two black poll workers, Shay and Ruby Freemen, were
personally attacked by Trump and Rudy Giuliani, who baselessly, publicly
(19:41):
and repeatedly accused these women of tampering with votes in
the election, until angry people descended on the home of
their elderly grandmother and they had to flee for their
own safety. And these are just everyday women. It's not
like they had a security detail. The whole point is
to silence women and to keep us from participating in
civic and public life, to create such a high cost
(20:03):
to doing so that it just isn't worth it. And
we haven't really had a real examination of how the
harassment of marginalized people online is a big part of
how we got here. So why not do that now.
Let's not just move on from it, as I know
that we're so apt to do on the Internet. Let's
examine it so we can learn from it. So on
(20:23):
this season of Internet hate Machine we'll be exploring how
online violence and harassment has led us to this political
and social moment that we're in, and don't worry, we'll
also be diving into what can be done about it.
And I know it's gonna be a wild ride, but
I hope that all of y'all are down to take
this ride with me. Internet Hate Machine is a production
(20:45):
of cool Zone Media. More podcasts from cool Zone Media,
check out our website cool zone media dot com, or
find us on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Host
Bridget Todd
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