August 1, 2025 • 21 mins
The 28-year-old elementary school teacher charged in the stabbing death of a married couple hiking with their two young daughters was denied bond today. Amy and T.J. go over all the new details we are learning about how police say McGann killed his victims and the final act of heroism and love from Cristen Brink to save her children and her husband. Plus, former students and their parents speak out about the warning signs that they claim were missed by school districts.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey there, folks. It's August first, and the suspect charged
for killing the Arkansas couple on a hike with their
young daughters just made his first court appearance. Bond has
been denied. He did not enter a plea of not guilty,
but police say he's already told them he's guilty. And
(00:24):
with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Robes.
He was in court just a short time ago, and
I guess it was something. There's some images out of there,
and it's just kind of eerie to just lay eyes
on them.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
It is eerie. And I saw that the hairstylist who
was cutting his hair when he was arrested described his
face as soulless, and that's actually a really accurate description.
I may. I know that we're all viewing him and
looking at him through the lens of what he's accused
of doing, but it's still there is something eerie, something
(01:03):
vacant in his face. He doesn't have any expression, And yeah,
it's frightening even just to look at someone who's capable
of what police say he did.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
And yes, they say he did, and they also say
that he said he did. We did give some updates
from police among some of the updates to the fact
that they say he did admit it. We'll tell you
more about that in a second, but the update at
least from right now robes he's making his first court
appearance again. This wasn't the arraignment that's supposed to come
August twenty fifth, but for now. One of the headlines
(01:39):
that did come out is that they are not going
to let him out of jail anytime soon. Bond was denied.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
That makes a lot of sense. He was also assigned
to public defender. It was unclear whether or not he
had already acquired an attorney. He had not, so he
was given a public defender and they'll be getting things
together next couple of weeks before his arraignment on the
twenty fifth. So he didn't enter a plea today or
anything like that. This was just to let him know
he would not be given bail, which makes a tremendous
(02:06):
amount of sense, perfect sense.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
But this information we're just getting because we were just
in court before we started recording here. But we did
get new information from police at least overnight. We were
wondering and waiting Robes when we first heard about this crime,
about some of the details like what was happening on
this hike and people were around, and why not bothered
the daughters and how did the daughters get away? Well,
(02:28):
that was a big part of the story we now know,
and we all wondered, you were sure like their last moments,
these parents were probably trying to protect their kids. But
the details robes are even more gut renting and even
make you more proud in viewing another parent as you
can be.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Absolutely so. Clinton and Kristen Brink are the two. That's
the couple, the parents who were murdered, and we now
also learned that they were stabbed to death. But police
told us that what happened, you had our suspect, Andrew
James McGann attacking Clinton the father first. That's when Kristen
(03:07):
the mom, got the two little girls seven and nine
years old, to safety. So she rushed them out immediately,
got them to safety further along on the trail, but
then she went back to go help her husband Clinton,
and that is when police say Andrew James McGann then
stabbed her to death as well. So it's just such
(03:29):
a heroic thing first for her to get her kids
off and far away from danger, but then to turn
around and head back to help her husband. My god,
that is a love story for her children and a
love story for her husband.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
As they say sometimes and not making light. But she's
a good one, Ain't she a good one? Ain't she
a keeper? To think she? I mean, I wonder just
think in those moments, she had to make some kind
of decision to balance are they safe enough? Who needs
(04:03):
me more? Now? Right? Wow? She had to go back.
She had to make that call because she could have.
And I think no one would falter if she kept
going with the kids and made sure she got away,
because I'm sure that's probably what the husband would have preferred.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
I think every mom asked herself what she would do,
and every wife asked herself what she would do, And
you know, you do have to make a split second decision.
I'm getting emotional thinking about it because on one hand,
you know, they actually had another daughter back at home
by the way, so they had three girls who need
their parents, And I don't know, I don't know what
(04:39):
the right call would have been. Of course, I think
it's interesting you pointed out, as the husband, you wouldn't
want her to come back. You would want her to
keep running, go, go, and we.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Can sit here and think about that now. Awfully, in
the moment, she it was instinct, and I'm sure she
felt good enough as a mom that the kids were okay.
Maybe she saw somebody else on the trail, because somebody
did ended up did end up finding kids on the
trail and helping them. But just to hear now this
detail all the scenarios we thought about. I didn't think
about that one.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Yeah, and they were about a half mile into the trail,
and it's a popular trail, but you know how trails
are there few and far between. You you see people
maybe every half mile or so. But I started thinking
there had to have been screaming. How did no one hear?
Could she not have been screaming for help? I imagine
like having my girls and running and screaming for help.
(05:27):
You know, you just don't know what you would do.
But the kids were close enough to another hiker. Yes,
we were wondering how they found their way back to
the visitor center, because that seemed surreal and almost impossible
for two little girls to navigate their way through a
trail and having to go the opposite way wherever this
danger was, but another hiker did find the girls and
then called nine one one immediately and then got them
(05:47):
to the visitor center. And that series of events certainly
makes a lot more sense than what we re speculating.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
And if we haven't said here now the girls were
seven and nine years old, you can't imagine what they're
going through now and what they saw. They experienced this
as well, but ended up on harm. That was part
of the new information. We got some other new details
from police. So they're saying he has admitted to the
crime the way they put it initially, and I wonder
(06:14):
if they were trying to be careful with language here.
But the the person, the investigator who was in charge,
made the statement that he indicated that was the word,
indicated that he had committed the crimes. And then she
was asked specifically was it a confession, and she said,
I would call it an admission, So I wonder what
(06:35):
they're being careful.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
The legal difference is between an admission and a confession.
Maybe a confession you actually usually will sign. They will
ask you to write it out and then they'll ask
you to sign a confession. So maybe he didn't do that,
but verbally acknowledged that he was the one responsible. It's
hard to know.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
That probably is some kind of legal fine line because
sometimes confessions get thrown out. Yes, that happens all the time.
But if he just told it to you without you
trying to course anyway, maybe that is the difference. What
they should use that language. I would call it an admission.
We told you the new details about the attack. Something
else here. It turns out there were quite a few
witnesses that sounds like robes that saw this guy at
(07:16):
some point before and even after, yes, attack.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Yes, a couple reported seeing a man with blood on
his face, and so that was actually how people then
were able to see which car he got into, and
that is how police were able to track him. So, yes,
all of those eyewitnesses, folks who some of the folks
who took videos and pictures and unknowingly captured him certainly
helped find him. There was the couple who was able
(07:40):
to describe his face to police to give that sketch
that certainly was spot on, and then others were able
to And this is when the police were saying they
were trying to connect the dots and doing all these
interviews before they made the announcement to local residents that
there was a double murderer on the loose, but they
were doing all of these interviews, piecing it together so
they could follow him and find him. But yes, people,
(08:03):
I mean, that's not something obviously you would forget if
you saw someone running past you on a hiking trail
with blood on their face, you know, And it worked.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Look, I credit to the police on this and to
the community up there that listened, that paid attention. And
as soon as they said they put that sketch out,
they started getting They said they were They used the
word we were flooded with tips in asking people in
an area like that where you know, people have been
taking pictures and got video. Said hey, people, just check
(08:32):
what you have and they said there was video footage
that they got that was so key in tracking this
guy down. So I mean applaud the community and all
you folks who did what they asked you to do.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
It was that car that led them to him, and
someone actually got a video of the car and saw
that the license plate was covered with duct tapes, so
they knew exactly what they were looking for and they
were able to track his car to spring Dale, Arkansas,
and that is exactly how they found him in that
barber shop. That's remarkable.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
I know, I told you I guess obas So we've
talked about this a little bit. Everybody knows I'm from Arkansas.
I went to the university that's in the area up there.
But we were there not too long ago for my
niece's birthday in Springdale, and we stayed in Springdale.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Or Race's wedding, right you said birthday?
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Yeah, yes, it was her celebratory. Yeah, something was going
on in which we were.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
It was a wedding.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
I had to get her a gift, Okay, but I did.
I could show you on the map. It's a five
minute drive that barbershop from where we had that wow
Mexican casa and I can't remember casa something that we.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Had a wonderful Mexican lunch with your sister there in
Springdale on that main road.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
And we always remember you. They wouldn't let us have
drinks outside. Do you remember that?
Speaker 2 (09:48):
We wanted to sit in the sun so badly and
we had to. We could only have a margarita inside
if we sat on the patio. It had to be
alcohol stree. It was a very memorable lunch.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Do you remember that? But yes, the what we're talking about,
and so we people think about don't know northwest Arkansas
that well, this has been a sprawling area in one
of the highest or the fastest growing areas in the
country or the past ten years or so. So this
is a booming place. This is not out in the
booni somewhere, but where he was found was dead center
(10:17):
in the middle of everything. You were there, you saw, oh, yeah,
this area, this is a bustling area, and this is adorable.
And the thing he's just roaming around, walking around, Hey,
it's not our haircut.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Hiding in plain sight, and certainly didn't seem concerned.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Yeah he did.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
He did not seem concerned at all that police were
going to find him, which is so interesting because I
would think he had seen this sketch artist, I mean,
the sketch rendering of him and the photo of him
from behind. If I saw that and saw it, dang,
they did a pretty good job. Looks just like me.
And his vehicle description was out there as well. So
that's just interesting that he had zero concern about being caught,
(10:52):
that he just thought he'd get a haircut.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
And to that point as well. Police did say they
found things in his apartment that indicated that he had
been keeping up with what was going on with his crime.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Yes, he was looking at the news reports. And also
they said they found blood in his car and they
actually were able to link his blood directly to the
crime scene, so they've got plenty of evidence that they've
got the right guy. He also had injuries to his hands,
some cuts from the attack itself, but.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
One of the most Yes, after the crime, shocking enough
he was captured. The next shock came in finding out
he is an elementary school teacher. And now some are
wondering how were the signs missed? Because the next question is, well,
there weren't any necessarily signs because he passed background check
(11:45):
after background check after background check. But parents, especially some
now in Texas, are arguing these administrators dropped the ball
with this guy.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Welcome back, everyone to this edition of Amy and TJ,
where we are talking about Andrew James McCann, the twenty
eight year old elementary school teacher who is now facing
double murder charges in the state of Arkansas for killing
that couple who was hiking with their young daughters, and
so many people are asking how this guy had been
(12:27):
able to go from school district to school district and
no one saw, no one heard, no one recognized any
sort of warning signs that this something might be off
with this man. And you know, we've had school district
after school districts say hey, we did our due diligence,
we did the background checks. This guy is clean. There's
no disciplinary actions on his record that would make us
(12:49):
not want to hire him.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
That's all true. What do you do, hey, if all
that's true, what are you supposed to do? I really
do ask that, somewhat rhetorically, but in all honesty, Well,
how do you read someone say, you know what, just
don't have a good feeling about this guy, because it
seems like a lot of people did have that.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
I think that is part of the interview process and
should be considered one hundred percent if you're going to
be dealing with our most precious resources or our most
precious gifts are children. But there were some warning signs.
Turns out, so he was a teacher in Oklahoma, correct
sand Spring School District and Broken Aero School District. He
(13:26):
passed the background checks.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Those were the two he was at in the two
prior years before coming to Springdale. So that would mean
three school districts in three different years.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
That's a red flag.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
That should be a red flag.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
But and by the way, he was about to start
Springdale School District. I mean, he was weeks away from
being a teacher to all of those children there in
the Springdale area, which is so scary. But when you
go back to twenty twenty two to twenty twenty three,
that school year he was in the Lewisville School District
in Texas, And this is where parents are pointing to
(14:02):
a situation that occurred that should have been why wasn't
it on his record? And certainly talking to these parents,
they're confused as well. So he was placed on administrative
leave and he ultimately resigned. And there is a reason
that is listed for his resignation slash administrative leave concerns
(14:22):
related to classroom management, professional judgment, and student favoritism.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Now, that doesn't sound terrible. He doesn't sound like this
is a nut. It doesn't sound like experson is a
threat necessarily. It sounds like they might be bad at
their job at the beginning, does it not? That doesn't
sound awful.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
And maybe you're thinking, so he's twenty eight now, so
three years ago he was twenty five. I mean young.
I think so you could reasonably think, Okay, he's just
young and inexperienced, and this isn't necessarily some character flaw,
but maybe an experience issue or a maturity issue. You
(15:03):
could see possibly how that would be the I guess
the conclusion that they could come to.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Okay, but they looked into it. So after some things
came to their attention, the district there did do an
investigation and they claim, and I quote, they did not
find any evidence of inappropriate behavior with a student. However,
we did find his classroom management and professional judgment to
be below our district expectations. Ultimately, mister McGahn resigned in
(15:31):
May of twenty twenty three, and that is the end
of it. But there are parents there who are saying
it's not that simple, just he was bad at managing
a classroom robes, and they are telling some stories of
behavior that they saw or they suspected or made them uncomfortable,
(15:53):
and it seems nothing was done about that.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
That's right. So several of these parents have spoken to
multiple news outlets. There was a parent that spoke to CBS,
who said that there were signs that not all was
right with mister McGann. And this woman specifically says that
she actually her son came to her and said he
was uncomfortable with how mister McGann treated specifically female students,
(16:21):
claiming that he gave them extra treats, kept some of
them in his classroom alone during recess, and she said
the worst part was when her son came home and
told her this story that he saw mister McGann tell
one of the little girls. And again, this is a
fourth grade class, correct, I think these were fourth graders
at the time. If you were older, I would love
(16:44):
to marry you. And so this parent said her son
heard that and was so upset he came home and
started crying. So it disturbed her that much, and so
she ultimately said, you drop your kids off every day,
and we were literally wrapping our kids off to a monster.
The fact that he was allowed to continue teaching is
(17:04):
what blows my mind.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Okay, they read it, they saw something in him, but
I mean, is it just weird behavior? Is that enough?
Speaker 2 (17:18):
It should be? I think when it comes to a
teacher and students, yes, if you have a teacher who
is displaying bizarre, just bizarre tendencies and certainly favorite showing
favoritism towards your female students when they're that little. That's scary.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Okay, So let me ask you this then, And this
is something that every educator probably out there going. Y'all
don't even understand a shortage of teachers, a shortage of
help moving around and trying to get and feel positions
in time for school. Okay, So this guy as an example,
(17:56):
what's going on when this guy starting the age twenty five,
it's pretty young to be in charge of some kids. Fine,
you can be twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three, Texas
School District, twenty twenty three, Oklahoma School District twenty twenty four,
Another Oklahoma school district, twenty twenty five. He was supposed
(18:18):
to start in Arkansas. That's four straight years, that's four
different school districts. Something's wrong there. Yes, his record isn't
following him. He got into trouble at that first school district,
but the next one, the next one and the next one
have no idea about that.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
There's nothing on record that anything happened. But why did
he keep moving? Why did he keep leaving. It could
have been uncomfortable for whatever reason. We don't know. We
haven't heard anything yet from those other school districts, but
certainly from other parents who say, now, I mean, of course,
it's Monday morning quarterbacking. It's always easy to be able
(18:56):
to look back and say, ah, I did think something
was off. It's hard in the moment to recognize if
someone's just antisocial, or has social development issues, or is
actually homicidal and a mania.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
You would never go that route, would.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
You wouldn't think it, You wouldn't jump go that far.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Yeah, No, I.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Mean this is other parents were saying. Several parents noticed,
myself included he was off. He was just very disinterested
one word answers. One parent described her son being uncomfortable. Yes,
so it's just it's little things here and there, but
nothing where someone should have said, this guy could go off,
this guy could snap.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Well, they are in Texas at least some starting to
call for something to be done. They think something fell
through the cracks here and something was missed. Someone on
the state member of the state Board of Education has
called for a thorough investigation robe, saying we got to
make sure at least that we didn't miss something. Maybe
(19:58):
this is just one of those things where there's no
way the system can do anything about this. But man,
if you hire somebody at your school district to take
care of eight year old children, don't you want to
know if that person has something on their record, yes,
that caused them to actually have disciplinary action. You would
(20:22):
need to know that and know why I would call
down to the squot hate. So tell me what happened.
Can I talk to some of those parents? You would
like to hear that as a thorough vetting, and you
might make a different decision. I don't know what legally
they can do, what unions protect, that's.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
A tough one, but I do you know, this could
be a tiny, tiny silver lining if there are some
changes implemented, if there are more safety nets put in place.
You can't always know what someone's thinking and who they
are in their hearts they're not willing to show you.
But perhaps if there are a few extra safety measures
put in place in some of these school districts, that
(20:57):
could be one small good thing that comes out of
really senseless, horrific tragedy. That we will continue to follow
all the latest developments on thank you for listening to
us on this Friday. I'm Amy Robot alongside my partner
t J Holmes. Have a great day, everybody,
Hey there, folks. It's August first, and the suspect charged
for killing the Arkansas couple on a hike with their
young daughters just made his first court appearance. Bond has
been denied. He did not enter a plea of not guilty,
but police say he's already told them he's guilty. And
(00:24):
with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Robes.
He was in court just a short time ago, and
I guess it was something. There's some images out of there,
and it's just kind of eerie to just lay eyes
on them.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
It is eerie. And I saw that the hairstylist who
was cutting his hair when he was arrested described his
face as soulless, and that's actually a really accurate description.
I may. I know that we're all viewing him and
looking at him through the lens of what he's accused
of doing, but it's still there is something eerie, something
(01:03):
vacant in his face. He doesn't have any expression, And yeah,
it's frightening even just to look at someone who's capable
of what police say he did.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
And yes, they say he did, and they also say
that he said he did. We did give some updates
from police among some of the updates to the fact
that they say he did admit it. We'll tell you
more about that in a second, but the update at
least from right now robes he's making his first court
appearance again. This wasn't the arraignment that's supposed to come
August twenty fifth, but for now. One of the headlines
(01:39):
that did come out is that they are not going
to let him out of jail anytime soon. Bond was denied.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
That makes a lot of sense. He was also assigned
to public defender. It was unclear whether or not he
had already acquired an attorney. He had not, so he
was given a public defender and they'll be getting things
together next couple of weeks before his arraignment on the
twenty fifth. So he didn't enter a plea today or
anything like that. This was just to let him know
he would not be given bail, which makes a tremendous
(02:06):
amount of sense, perfect sense.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
But this information we're just getting because we were just
in court before we started recording here. But we did
get new information from police at least overnight. We were
wondering and waiting Robes when we first heard about this crime,
about some of the details like what was happening on
this hike and people were around, and why not bothered
the daughters and how did the daughters get away? Well,
(02:28):
that was a big part of the story we now know,
and we all wondered, you were sure like their last moments,
these parents were probably trying to protect their kids. But
the details robes are even more gut renting and even
make you more proud in viewing another parent as you
can be.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Absolutely so. Clinton and Kristen Brink are the two. That's
the couple, the parents who were murdered, and we now
also learned that they were stabbed to death. But police
told us that what happened, you had our suspect, Andrew
James McGann attacking Clinton the father first. That's when Kristen
(03:07):
the mom, got the two little girls seven and nine
years old, to safety. So she rushed them out immediately,
got them to safety further along on the trail, but
then she went back to go help her husband Clinton,
and that is when police say Andrew James McGann then
stabbed her to death as well. So it's just such
(03:29):
a heroic thing first for her to get her kids
off and far away from danger, but then to turn
around and head back to help her husband. My god,
that is a love story for her children and a
love story for her husband.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
As they say sometimes and not making light. But she's
a good one, Ain't she a good one? Ain't she
a keeper? To think she? I mean, I wonder just
think in those moments, she had to make some kind
of decision to balance are they safe enough? Who needs
(04:03):
me more? Now? Right? Wow? She had to go back.
She had to make that call because she could have.
And I think no one would falter if she kept
going with the kids and made sure she got away,
because I'm sure that's probably what the husband would have preferred.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
I think every mom asked herself what she would do,
and every wife asked herself what she would do, And
you know, you do have to make a split second decision.
I'm getting emotional thinking about it because on one hand,
you know, they actually had another daughter back at home
by the way, so they had three girls who need
their parents, And I don't know, I don't know what
(04:39):
the right call would have been. Of course, I think
it's interesting you pointed out, as the husband, you wouldn't
want her to come back. You would want her to
keep running, go, go, and we.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Can sit here and think about that now. Awfully, in
the moment, she it was instinct, and I'm sure she
felt good enough as a mom that the kids were okay.
Maybe she saw somebody else on the trail, because somebody
did ended up did end up finding kids on the
trail and helping them. But just to hear now this
detail all the scenarios we thought about. I didn't think
about that one.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Yeah, and they were about a half mile into the trail,
and it's a popular trail, but you know how trails
are there few and far between. You you see people
maybe every half mile or so. But I started thinking
there had to have been screaming. How did no one hear?
Could she not have been screaming for help? I imagine
like having my girls and running and screaming for help.
(05:27):
You know, you just don't know what you would do.
But the kids were close enough to another hiker. Yes,
we were wondering how they found their way back to
the visitor center, because that seemed surreal and almost impossible
for two little girls to navigate their way through a
trail and having to go the opposite way wherever this
danger was, but another hiker did find the girls and
then called nine one one immediately and then got them
(05:47):
to the visitor center. And that series of events certainly
makes a lot more sense than what we re speculating.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
And if we haven't said here now the girls were
seven and nine years old, you can't imagine what they're
going through now and what they saw. They experienced this
as well, but ended up on harm. That was part
of the new information. We got some other new details
from police. So they're saying he has admitted to the
crime the way they put it initially, and I wonder
(06:14):
if they were trying to be careful with language here.
But the the person, the investigator who was in charge,
made the statement that he indicated that was the word,
indicated that he had committed the crimes. And then she
was asked specifically was it a confession, and she said,
I would call it an admission, So I wonder what
(06:35):
they're being careful.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
The legal difference is between an admission and a confession.
Maybe a confession you actually usually will sign. They will
ask you to write it out and then they'll ask
you to sign a confession. So maybe he didn't do that,
but verbally acknowledged that he was the one responsible. It's
hard to know.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
That probably is some kind of legal fine line because
sometimes confessions get thrown out. Yes, that happens all the time.
But if he just told it to you without you
trying to course anyway, maybe that is the difference. What
they should use that language. I would call it an admission.
We told you the new details about the attack. Something
else here. It turns out there were quite a few
witnesses that sounds like robes that saw this guy at
(07:16):
some point before and even after, yes, attack.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Yes, a couple reported seeing a man with blood on
his face, and so that was actually how people then
were able to see which car he got into, and
that is how police were able to track him. So, yes,
all of those eyewitnesses, folks who some of the folks
who took videos and pictures and unknowingly captured him certainly
helped find him. There was the couple who was able
(07:40):
to describe his face to police to give that sketch
that certainly was spot on, and then others were able
to And this is when the police were saying they
were trying to connect the dots and doing all these
interviews before they made the announcement to local residents that
there was a double murderer on the loose, but they
were doing all of these interviews, piecing it together so
they could follow him and find him. But yes, people,
(08:03):
I mean, that's not something obviously you would forget if
you saw someone running past you on a hiking trail
with blood on their face, you know, And it worked.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Look, I credit to the police on this and to
the community up there that listened, that paid attention. And
as soon as they said they put that sketch out,
they started getting They said they were They used the
word we were flooded with tips in asking people in
an area like that where you know, people have been
taking pictures and got video. Said hey, people, just check
(08:32):
what you have and they said there was video footage
that they got that was so key in tracking this
guy down. So I mean applaud the community and all
you folks who did what they asked you to do.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
It was that car that led them to him, and
someone actually got a video of the car and saw
that the license plate was covered with duct tapes, so
they knew exactly what they were looking for and they
were able to track his car to spring Dale, Arkansas,
and that is exactly how they found him in that
barber shop. That's remarkable.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
I know, I told you I guess obas So we've
talked about this a little bit. Everybody knows I'm from Arkansas.
I went to the university that's in the area up there.
But we were there not too long ago for my
niece's birthday in Springdale, and we stayed in Springdale.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Or Race's wedding, right you said birthday?
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Yeah, yes, it was her celebratory. Yeah, something was going
on in which we were.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
It was a wedding.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
I had to get her a gift, Okay, but I did.
I could show you on the map. It's a five
minute drive that barbershop from where we had that wow
Mexican casa and I can't remember casa something that we.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Had a wonderful Mexican lunch with your sister there in
Springdale on that main road.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
And we always remember you. They wouldn't let us have
drinks outside. Do you remember that?
Speaker 2 (09:48):
We wanted to sit in the sun so badly and
we had to. We could only have a margarita inside
if we sat on the patio. It had to be
alcohol stree. It was a very memorable lunch.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Do you remember that? But yes, the what we're talking about,
and so we people think about don't know northwest Arkansas
that well, this has been a sprawling area in one
of the highest or the fastest growing areas in the
country or the past ten years or so. So this
is a booming place. This is not out in the
booni somewhere, but where he was found was dead center
(10:17):
in the middle of everything. You were there, you saw, oh, yeah,
this area, this is a bustling area, and this is adorable.
And the thing he's just roaming around, walking around, Hey,
it's not our haircut.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Hiding in plain sight, and certainly didn't seem concerned.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Yeah he did.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
He did not seem concerned at all that police were
going to find him, which is so interesting because I
would think he had seen this sketch artist, I mean,
the sketch rendering of him and the photo of him
from behind. If I saw that and saw it, dang,
they did a pretty good job. Looks just like me.
And his vehicle description was out there as well. So
that's just interesting that he had zero concern about being caught,
(10:52):
that he just thought he'd get a haircut.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
And to that point as well. Police did say they
found things in his apartment that indicated that he had
been keeping up with what was going on with his crime.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Yes, he was looking at the news reports. And also
they said they found blood in his car and they
actually were able to link his blood directly to the
crime scene, so they've got plenty of evidence that they've
got the right guy. He also had injuries to his hands,
some cuts from the attack itself, but.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
One of the most Yes, after the crime, shocking enough
he was captured. The next shock came in finding out
he is an elementary school teacher. And now some are
wondering how were the signs missed? Because the next question is, well,
there weren't any necessarily signs because he passed background check
(11:45):
after background check after background check. But parents, especially some
now in Texas, are arguing these administrators dropped the ball
with this guy.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Welcome back, everyone to this edition of Amy and TJ,
where we are talking about Andrew James McCann, the twenty
eight year old elementary school teacher who is now facing
double murder charges in the state of Arkansas for killing
that couple who was hiking with their young daughters, and
so many people are asking how this guy had been
(12:27):
able to go from school district to school district and
no one saw, no one heard, no one recognized any
sort of warning signs that this something might be off
with this man. And you know, we've had school district
after school districts say hey, we did our due diligence,
we did the background checks. This guy is clean. There's
no disciplinary actions on his record that would make us
(12:49):
not want to hire him.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
That's all true. What do you do, hey, if all
that's true, what are you supposed to do? I really
do ask that, somewhat rhetorically, but in all honesty, Well,
how do you read someone say, you know what, just
don't have a good feeling about this guy, because it
seems like a lot of people did have that.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
I think that is part of the interview process and
should be considered one hundred percent if you're going to
be dealing with our most precious resources or our most
precious gifts are children. But there were some warning signs.
Turns out, so he was a teacher in Oklahoma, correct
sand Spring School District and Broken Aero School District. He
(13:26):
passed the background checks.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Those were the two he was at in the two
prior years before coming to Springdale. So that would mean
three school districts in three different years.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
That's a red flag.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
That should be a red flag.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
But and by the way, he was about to start
Springdale School District. I mean, he was weeks away from
being a teacher to all of those children there in
the Springdale area, which is so scary. But when you
go back to twenty twenty two to twenty twenty three,
that school year he was in the Lewisville School District
in Texas, And this is where parents are pointing to
(14:02):
a situation that occurred that should have been why wasn't
it on his record? And certainly talking to these parents,
they're confused as well. So he was placed on administrative
leave and he ultimately resigned. And there is a reason
that is listed for his resignation slash administrative leave concerns
(14:22):
related to classroom management, professional judgment, and student favoritism.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Now, that doesn't sound terrible. He doesn't sound like this
is a nut. It doesn't sound like experson is a
threat necessarily. It sounds like they might be bad at
their job at the beginning, does it not? That doesn't
sound awful.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
And maybe you're thinking, so he's twenty eight now, so
three years ago he was twenty five. I mean young.
I think so you could reasonably think, Okay, he's just
young and inexperienced, and this isn't necessarily some character flaw,
but maybe an experience issue or a maturity issue. You
(15:03):
could see possibly how that would be the I guess
the conclusion that they could come to.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Okay, but they looked into it. So after some things
came to their attention, the district there did do an
investigation and they claim, and I quote, they did not
find any evidence of inappropriate behavior with a student. However,
we did find his classroom management and professional judgment to
be below our district expectations. Ultimately, mister McGahn resigned in
(15:31):
May of twenty twenty three, and that is the end
of it. But there are parents there who are saying
it's not that simple, just he was bad at managing
a classroom robes, and they are telling some stories of
behavior that they saw or they suspected or made them uncomfortable,
(15:53):
and it seems nothing was done about that.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
That's right. So several of these parents have spoken to
multiple news outlets. There was a parent that spoke to CBS,
who said that there were signs that not all was
right with mister McGann. And this woman specifically says that
she actually her son came to her and said he
was uncomfortable with how mister McGann treated specifically female students,
(16:21):
claiming that he gave them extra treats, kept some of
them in his classroom alone during recess, and she said
the worst part was when her son came home and
told her this story that he saw mister McGann tell
one of the little girls. And again, this is a
fourth grade class, correct, I think these were fourth graders
at the time. If you were older, I would love
(16:44):
to marry you. And so this parent said her son
heard that and was so upset he came home and
started crying. So it disturbed her that much, and so
she ultimately said, you drop your kids off every day,
and we were literally wrapping our kids off to a monster.
The fact that he was allowed to continue teaching is
(17:04):
what blows my mind.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Okay, they read it, they saw something in him, but
I mean, is it just weird behavior? Is that enough?
Speaker 2 (17:18):
It should be? I think when it comes to a
teacher and students, yes, if you have a teacher who
is displaying bizarre, just bizarre tendencies and certainly favorite showing
favoritism towards your female students when they're that little. That's scary.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Okay, So let me ask you this then, And this
is something that every educator probably out there going. Y'all
don't even understand a shortage of teachers, a shortage of
help moving around and trying to get and feel positions
in time for school. Okay, So this guy as an example,
(17:56):
what's going on when this guy starting the age twenty five,
it's pretty young to be in charge of some kids. Fine,
you can be twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three, Texas
School District, twenty twenty three, Oklahoma School District twenty twenty four,
Another Oklahoma school district, twenty twenty five. He was supposed
(18:18):
to start in Arkansas. That's four straight years, that's four
different school districts. Something's wrong there. Yes, his record isn't
following him. He got into trouble at that first school district,
but the next one, the next one and the next one
have no idea about that.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
There's nothing on record that anything happened. But why did
he keep moving? Why did he keep leaving. It could
have been uncomfortable for whatever reason. We don't know. We
haven't heard anything yet from those other school districts, but
certainly from other parents who say, now, I mean, of course,
it's Monday morning quarterbacking. It's always easy to be able
(18:56):
to look back and say, ah, I did think something
was off. It's hard in the moment to recognize if
someone's just antisocial, or has social development issues, or is
actually homicidal and a mania.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
You would never go that route, would.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
You wouldn't think it, You wouldn't jump go that far.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Yeah, No, I.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Mean this is other parents were saying. Several parents noticed,
myself included he was off. He was just very disinterested
one word answers. One parent described her son being uncomfortable. Yes,
so it's just it's little things here and there, but
nothing where someone should have said, this guy could go off,
this guy could snap.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Well, they are in Texas at least some starting to
call for something to be done. They think something fell
through the cracks here and something was missed. Someone on
the state member of the state Board of Education has
called for a thorough investigation robe, saying we got to
make sure at least that we didn't miss something. Maybe
(19:58):
this is just one of those things where there's no
way the system can do anything about this. But man,
if you hire somebody at your school district to take
care of eight year old children, don't you want to
know if that person has something on their record, yes,
that caused them to actually have disciplinary action. You would
(20:22):
need to know that and know why I would call
down to the squot hate. So tell me what happened.
Can I talk to some of those parents? You would
like to hear that as a thorough vetting, and you
might make a different decision. I don't know what legally
they can do, what unions protect, that's.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
A tough one, but I do you know, this could
be a tiny, tiny silver lining if there are some
changes implemented, if there are more safety nets put in place.
You can't always know what someone's thinking and who they
are in their hearts they're not willing to show you.
But perhaps if there are a few extra safety measures
put in place in some of these school districts, that
(20:57):
could be one small good thing that comes out of
really senseless, horrific tragedy. That we will continue to follow
all the latest developments on thank you for listening to
us on this Friday. I'm Amy Robot alongside my partner
t J Holmes. Have a great day, everybody,
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