December 20, 2025 • 20 mins
After spending hours and hours wrapping gifts this weekend, Amy and T.J. have an honest conversation about the amount pf presents under the tree this year. Turns out “guilt giving” is a fairly common response with divorced and blended families, parents trying to make up for the loss of a sense of normalcy for their children. We have the red flags you should watch out for and an incredibly helpful guide on how to navigate the holidays with what’s called “The 5 Gift Rule.”
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hey, there are folks. It is Saturday, December twentieth, just
five days to go before Christmas, and this is not
the episode we plan to record and post today. But
we changed things up when we took a look under
the Christmas trees and said to ourselves, that is way
too much stuff. And with that, welcome to this episode
(00:31):
of Amy and TJ Robes.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
We.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Yeah, people go overboard, certainly last minute, late and go
crazy at the holidays, and sometimes that's okay, but particularly
you and I got into a conversation about this. But
it wasn't just that we go too far. We started
to examine why, even subconsciously, we bought so much stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Yeah, I started asking myself and really asking myself to
reflect honestly, why the why behind? There are way too
much any way, too many gifts under the Christmas tree?
And I said, am I purchasing gifts out of guilt?
Guilt of the last couple of years that have been
pretty tough on our kids? No question, they have been
(01:12):
through a lot, and so am I subconsciously trying to
make up for it by giving them more than they
actually need?
Speaker 1 (01:20):
And what do you think your answer is to that?
Do you believe because okay, you go.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
I think that there is something to that. I do
think that.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
I'm not doing it consciously and I'm not doing it deliberately,
like I'm going to make sure that they feel good
and here's how I'm going to do it. But I
did look at as I was wrapping these gifts, thinking
this is this is this is too much? And then
I started to ask myself why. I do love giving
and I do love buying, and I do love this season,
but this feels like the last two years.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
I feel like I've bought more than I normally have.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Really, I wonder because your focus has been different as well,
your circle smaller, your gift list right got small, the
number of people on that list got smaller. That could
have something to do with it, to just focus too much.
I hear what you're saying, and I was going back
and forth with you, and I don't know if I'm
(02:14):
guilty of it as well, but I know it's something
that I have had to keep in check, Like I
am very very conscious of going overboard and going too far,
and I think I still do with that little one
with Sabine, because you do, in some way feel responsible
for any upheaval, or even the fact that they are
(02:35):
not under one roof with their two parents for.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Christmas, exactly knowing they have to go back and forth.
My girls spent their entire lives doing that. Analyse is nineteen.
She does not have a memory of having a Christmas
with both parents and having a Christmas where she didn't have.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
To feel like she was being juggled, so to speak.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Now that they're older, where they want to go, it
actually feels funny enough. Now it feels settled. Their dad's
in another state, and it's just not as possible as
it used to be to try and manage having everyone
get to have equal time or at least sometimes.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
So that has gone away.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
But I do think about what they have not been
able to experience.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
But this is a thing, I mean, obviously it is.
I guess I haven't paid that closely as far as studies.
I haven't had really conversations with anybody else about it.
But everything we've done in the past several years having
to do with the kids, we have to keep in
check to No, I can't just say yes to that
because I want to be nice and I want them
to like me and want to make up for something
(03:46):
that I feel responsible for, and that's tough no matter what.
That's tough to get over, even if you know it
good and hell well you're not responsible or solely responsible
for any that was, still you can't help it as
a parent, oh.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Man, And look, I have tried.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
I firmly believe that any decision you make period out
of guilt is probably not a correct one because it's
not reasoned rationally, and I don't think it necessarily. It
can sometimes even do more harm than good. It looks
like you're buying someone's love or buying someone's affection, or
it feels transactional or that you owe somebody. It takes
(04:26):
away from the spirit of giving a gift and receiving
a gift, and even certainly the spirit of the holidays.
So I'm very aware of that, and I've always tried
to be aware of it from the beginning, but but
I have noticed. I think I kept it in check
for most of their childhoods, But these last couple of years,
I absolutely think I.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Have been more.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
I don't want to say, lenient and more giving than
I have in the past. And I do appreciate the
fact that you said maybe it's because is your circle smaller.
Maybe it's because you've been able to actually focus more
on your kids. I don't have a job sending me
around the world and jumping on planes twice a week,
and I have been able just to be with them,
and that has felt indulgent and fun and awesome, and
(05:15):
our relationships have gotten significantly better, there's no question.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
But I always do want to check myself.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
I don't know, No, I get what you're saying. I'm
trying to not check you and be as hard on
you as you were kind of on yourself earlier. I
don't know road we it is. I'm I'm struggling with
this because I am love looking at at the gifts
(05:43):
and what's under the trees. Yeah, two trees.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
They're small trees, the equivalent of one big tree. Maybe
that's what's throwing me, because we have two trees and
two little areas of presents like that is a lot
of presence.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
But it's only that way because it's a whole story
behind that. We always have to get a real tree,
and then we happened to have it was our first Christmas,
the five of us, at least altogether last year, we
ordered this tree. On Amazon, this white tree with these
lights on it that sparkle, and it was a wonderful
Christmas and we kept it and it's now a part
of our Christmas tradition. There's no way that tree wasn't
(06:20):
going to go up, and we had to get a
real one. So that's why we had the two. We
didn't get two trees because we needed more space.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Pause.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
We had to make that clear.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
And like I said, I also think that maybe visually
the two trees is throwing me. And because they're smaller trees,
there's not as much room under the tree, so it
looks like they're piled up on top.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Okay, so maybe we shouldn't have done this episode. It's
just weird being fooled by it's an illusion.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
No, that's not now. I'm just trying to make excuses.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
And I had to wrap for three hours yesterday and
say I still have a lot more wrapping to go.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
That's insane.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
I'm curious with other people. Yes, I always try to
set a budget. I did have a list. I was
keeping dollar amounts next to it so that I had
an idea of what our budget is and how much.
But what happens is you go Black Friday shopping, you
go Cyber Monday shopping, you say, oh, look at this. Oh,
and then I see something that all three girls would like,
and then I get a gift for all and all
(07:12):
of a sudden it starts adding up beyond what they
had even asked for in the first place.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Yeah, that's happened. That's actually happened quite a bit. On
some fairly price the items. It's almost like you can't
get it for just one of them anymore.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Well, that's the other thing. Yes, they're all opening it
up together.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
They're all three girls, they all like the same basically.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
So then I'm like, well, I can't just get one,
I have to get three.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
And so I've been doing a lot of threefold gifts
that maybe also like, that's a lot of wrapping.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
It's a lot of wrapping.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
What does one do a part of it? That is
what is how it reveals itself in some ways by
buying too many gifts, that's where the guilt shows up.
But what is the thing you feel most guilty about
in the first place.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yes, robbing them of an experience, robby, I see, I
know these are triggering words, but you know, being responsible,
knowing you're responsible for having them, and I hate the
word normal, but feeling responsible for them not having what
(08:16):
you would consider and maybe what you and I had
growing up, which was a nuclear family, mom, dad, brothers, sister.
And it wasn't complex, it wasn't confusing. It felt safe,
it felt secure, it was structured. And our kids' lives
have had anything about that.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
That's where I am, like, I struggle and difficult saying
it out loud that that thing I wish Sabine had
that I do. I wish that could have been the case.
And I keep saying like that's like that was my
preference for her life, but it wasn't the best thing
(08:59):
for her.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
I know that because it wasn't the best thing for
your life.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
This and it seemed to get over that and to
seem it seems selfish to make a decision for yourself
that impacts other people. But it's tough sometimes to remember,
and we've talked to plenty of therapists about these things,
to remember that the best thing for the child was
to not see her parents in that house together.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
No, I think I've said this before, but a therapist
said this to me and this landed and I've always
used this is is this the marriage you want for
your child? And if it's not, can you do something
about it? Or do you need to make sure they
have an example of what an actual loving relationship looks like.
(09:43):
And if you can answer that honestly, then that leads
you in the right direction. That's what my therapist told me.
Would you want your daughters to be in the marriage
that they are witnessing every day?
Speaker 3 (09:54):
And there was a very clear answer for me.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
It's difficult. I know for a lot of parents are
dealing with us around the holl And I think the
numbers will tell you. I think it's a third of
kids in this country we'll go through their parents' divorce
before they hit adulthood. That's a lot of kids. And
that's a lot of Christmases. And one of the most
difficult parts that I've experienced in recent years Robes, is
(10:17):
any idea of having to split the holiday. I would
almost prefer to being just stay with her mom than
to have to go half and half on a holiday.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
That's very self less of you, because most people don't
feel that way.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
That's not a good I just that idea being split
into two, or being obligator in some way if she
just if she says she wants to go there, says
she wants to come here. That's fine, and she's old
enough she can decide. But I hate the idea of splitting. Yeah,
and we did that. Was it last year? We had
to do it.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
You drove on Christmas Day after we opened presents and
I think we had lunch together in like mid afternoon.
We had rented a house, and you drove her back
into the city so she could spend the last half
of Christmas with her mom.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Yes, so it is don't like that?
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Yep, like that.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I spent years and years and years doing that as well.
And yes, it's hard on me the parent, but it's
even harder on the kids.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
It's funny.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Even Analysa was saying we were talking about Sabine and
she said, oh, I I lived every single Christmas like that.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
I totally get it.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
It's not fun, but I do think it's it is
cool that they can lean on each other because at
least the older girls have been there, done that, and
Sabine's going through it and there's at least some I
guess there is a commiseration there is a recognition and
you do you feel seen?
Speaker 3 (11:32):
You're not alone? Right?
Speaker 2 (11:33):
They kind of feel like we can help guide her
because this has been our life.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Well, it's things have settled, things are great now. Let's
they can make decisions about where she wants to go
and can speak up and that's yeah. There's no negotiation
or anything that has to take place, and that's fine.
But I would always elect. I would tell her right,
I don't want her to feel guilty about Oh. I
want to make sure. I don't want to feel bad
for this parent or that parent. If she prefers to
stay at one spot, I would prefer her to not
(12:00):
see her on Christmas than to have her have to
do that. I say, have to. If she chooses to,
that's fine, but to have to do it and figuring
out schedules and what time is this dinner and what
time the gifts of being opened, I don't. I really
don't like that.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
You know, it's so interesting what you just said. You
said you don't want some being to feel guilty. And
it's funny. My mom used to always say to me,
guilt is a wasted emotion. Please don't ever feel guilty,
And yet it's the guilt that we're talking that we
have that we're trying to find a way through and
out of. But that's what you don't want for your kids.
(12:37):
You don't want your kids pulled or feeling guilty. So
then maybe that is part of the reason why, through
our own guilt we might overspend.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
And there are some that suggests we'll just talking about
the guilt part of it. One way to do away
with the splitting at least this suggestion that the families,
even of divorce, spend the Christmas together like you spend
it with y X in the house, just for the
sake of the kids. When you think about that.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Idea, look, you know what, when it works, I think
it's awesome. The biggest example I just was reading about
this is actually Ben Affleck and Jennifer Garner. They spend
holidays together. Are other there's another famous couple out there
who said they vacation together.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
That is impressive. That My hat is off to you.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
If you can stomach that and you can be not
just cordial but actually enjoy yourself around your ex for
your kids, that's incredible.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
It's just never been possible.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Now.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Look, I have had now enough years with Avan Anda's
dad where Yes, graduations, you've been in the apartment. He
comes with his wife and his children, and we're all
in the same house. And it's but that took years
to get.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
To that place, but we are there now one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Still weird.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Still, it's weird for me, and I think initially it
was weird for the girls.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
But I know that it makes them feel very happy
to see us all in the same place.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Getting along.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
That's it. That's the key. I will show up wherever
they tell me. I need to show up and get
along with who I need to get along with. Yes,
some limits there, I will say, but that's generally what
we're talking about. Now. We are back and forth on
this idea of guilt and overgiving of gifts because of
a feeling of guilt. But stay here, Rolles says, tracked
(14:21):
down what might be a pretty good plan to stick
to of only giving five particular gifts. Trust me, folks,
you want to hear this one. Stay here and welcome back, folks.
(14:44):
We'll continue here on Amy and TJ. Rooves. I thought
this was interesting, this idea. I'm not sure where you
find it. You can explain, But we struggle with what
gift to give, what kind and trying to think of
all these things. This kind of helps.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Yes, it was under a list of healthy alternatives to
guilt based gifts. I was googling divorce parents guilt buying
Christmas gifts, and so they said use the five gift role.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
This was so powerful to me.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
I actually would love to try this next year, the
five gift role. So you buy something they want, something
they need, something they wear, something they read, and an experience.
I think that's really really cool. You can set your
own limit on how much you want to spend whatever
(15:29):
that is. But those that I really like the idea
of it. Just thinking about having that be the guidepost.
I actually feel my shoulders drop because there is so
much pressure to make sure that you get them everything
they want. You get them things they weren't expecting. You
wow them on Christmas morning. And I don't feel this
way necessarily now, but I know a lot of folks do.
(15:50):
They are in competition with their ex because what are
they getting from the other parent, and so you feel
like you have to there's a one upsmanship that goes on.
So they were saying some red flo flags of guilt giving,
lavish spending. So if you find yourself spending more than
you should, more than you can afford, and trying to
buy more expensive gifts than the other parent, red flag manipulation.
(16:11):
And I have seen this using gift to control behavior
or to alienate the other parent.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Basically, you can only play with that at my house.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Oh I have seen this happen, babe. You can only
wear this at our house. You cannot bring that with
you to their house. And that is that you need
to examine why, because that is not good for the kid.
And I have absolutely watched that happen and it's heartbreaking.
The other the unhealthy competition. You're turning the holidays into
a contest with your ex and people do this, so
(16:43):
you have to like really be honest with yourself and
ask the whys. And really, the manipulation part, it sounds
so offensive, and yet I think it's incredibly common, very
much so, and you might not even realize you're doing
but you're doing it, and the kids know.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
The kids No, But I really like this five gift rule.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Do you I'll go ahead, Oh no, go ahead, Well
I was going to ask you after you have put this.
You see the five is this how you went about
it with the girls. Did you get them both something
they want? I know that's yes. To get them both
something they need, I know that's a yes. Something they wear? Sure,
read an experience? Did you give those.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Uh, let me see, I don't believe funny enough that
five gift rule.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
I have totally done for.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
You, like absolutely, I check check, check check. I have
almost always gotten them an experience, but I did not
this time. This might be one of the first Christmases
I did not. Well, you know what, if you count
the vacation we're going on, that's an experience. They're all
getting a pretty all getting an experience. So yes, we
are doing that. We are giving them an experience, and
(17:49):
that is absolutely a Christmas present.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
But you know what, I didn't get them read something
to read.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
That seems odd. We always get them something to read.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
I know. I feel like I wrap up books a lot,
but somehow I did not for them.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
We can rectify this, we will, okay.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
But I like this, and I think this keeps things
really simple and really.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Manageable.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
And if they know, that's what you get, because I've
even said to them, I'm like, guys, this is it
takes three hours to open Christmas gifts in the morning
it's out of control.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
And then another two hours of clean all deck crap.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
That's so true.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
I gotta get like two trash bags for all the
wrapping paper for the hours we spent rapp And.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
You're the I think you're the ridiculous one that even
before we start open and stuff, it's like three trash
bags strategically placed around the living room.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
I was already It's so funny you just said that.
I was already imagining me and Christmas morning.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
I get trash bags next to it like every other
person like, and I'll make sure you put in the dress. Also,
the reason why I do that is I don't want
gifts to get thrown away. That happens all the time
when all the wrapping papers everywhere, and then someone comes
in and scoops it all up and somehow someone's gift
got thrown out. So I just figure if the wrapping
paper immediately goes into the trash bag, you avoid that.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
That only happens when you buy too many damn guilt gifts. Well, folks,
hope you're I mean, yeah, we got days left here,
but this was I don't know. We had to stop
and kind of check ourselves. And we were having a
conversation and we thought, wow, I've got a bunch of
people are dealing with this as well, if they realize
it or not, are doing this And maybe we didn't
at times this year last year, but we're all human, bit.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Yes, and we can all learn from our mistakes.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
And I do think that it's only through making them
that you realize. Wait, I think I need to correct
something right now, and I need to acknowledge something about
myself right now. And once man, when you can get
rid of guilt, when you can shed yourself of that
and say, you know what, My kids are resilient, My
kids are strong. My kids are smart and brave and
they have been through a lot, but that's going to
(19:47):
make them stronger emotionally more stable individuals. And so that's
where I'm going to land this year.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Well, folks, hope you are having a good holiday so far,
and we'll continue. Good luck weekend last weekend before Christmas
South there again. Don't spend too much and don't spend
out of guilt, folks, We always appreciate you spending some
time with us. I'm TJ. Holmes by half of my
Dreamy Robot, we'll talk to us
Hey, there are folks. It is Saturday, December twentieth, just
five days to go before Christmas, and this is not
the episode we plan to record and post today. But
we changed things up when we took a look under
the Christmas trees and said to ourselves, that is way
too much stuff. And with that, welcome to this episode
(00:31):
of Amy and TJ Robes.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
We.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Yeah, people go overboard, certainly last minute, late and go
crazy at the holidays, and sometimes that's okay, but particularly
you and I got into a conversation about this. But
it wasn't just that we go too far. We started
to examine why, even subconsciously, we bought so much stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Yeah, I started asking myself and really asking myself to
reflect honestly, why the why behind? There are way too
much any way, too many gifts under the Christmas tree?
And I said, am I purchasing gifts out of guilt?
Guilt of the last couple of years that have been
pretty tough on our kids? No question, they have been
(01:12):
through a lot, and so am I subconsciously trying to
make up for it by giving them more than they
actually need?
Speaker 1 (01:20):
And what do you think your answer is to that?
Do you believe because okay, you go.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
I think that there is something to that. I do
think that.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
I'm not doing it consciously and I'm not doing it deliberately,
like I'm going to make sure that they feel good
and here's how I'm going to do it. But I
did look at as I was wrapping these gifts, thinking
this is this is this is too much? And then
I started to ask myself why. I do love giving
and I do love buying, and I do love this season,
but this feels like the last two years.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
I feel like I've bought more than I normally have.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Really, I wonder because your focus has been different as well,
your circle smaller, your gift list right got small, the
number of people on that list got smaller. That could
have something to do with it, to just focus too much.
I hear what you're saying, and I was going back
and forth with you, and I don't know if I'm
(02:14):
guilty of it as well, but I know it's something
that I have had to keep in check, Like I
am very very conscious of going overboard and going too far,
and I think I still do with that little one
with Sabine, because you do, in some way feel responsible
for any upheaval, or even the fact that they are
(02:35):
not under one roof with their two parents for.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Christmas, exactly knowing they have to go back and forth.
My girls spent their entire lives doing that. Analyse is nineteen.
She does not have a memory of having a Christmas
with both parents and having a Christmas where she didn't have.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
To feel like she was being juggled, so to speak.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Now that they're older, where they want to go, it
actually feels funny enough. Now it feels settled. Their dad's
in another state, and it's just not as possible as
it used to be to try and manage having everyone
get to have equal time or at least sometimes.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
So that has gone away.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
But I do think about what they have not been
able to experience.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
But this is a thing, I mean, obviously it is.
I guess I haven't paid that closely as far as studies.
I haven't had really conversations with anybody else about it.
But everything we've done in the past several years having
to do with the kids, we have to keep in
check to No, I can't just say yes to that
because I want to be nice and I want them
to like me and want to make up for something
(03:46):
that I feel responsible for, and that's tough no matter what.
That's tough to get over, even if you know it
good and hell well you're not responsible or solely responsible
for any that was, still you can't help it as
a parent, oh.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Man, And look, I have tried.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
I firmly believe that any decision you make period out
of guilt is probably not a correct one because it's
not reasoned rationally, and I don't think it necessarily. It
can sometimes even do more harm than good. It looks
like you're buying someone's love or buying someone's affection, or
it feels transactional or that you owe somebody. It takes
(04:26):
away from the spirit of giving a gift and receiving
a gift, and even certainly the spirit of the holidays.
So I'm very aware of that, and I've always tried
to be aware of it from the beginning, but but
I have noticed. I think I kept it in check
for most of their childhoods, But these last couple of years,
I absolutely think I.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Have been more.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
I don't want to say, lenient and more giving than
I have in the past. And I do appreciate the
fact that you said maybe it's because is your circle smaller.
Maybe it's because you've been able to actually focus more
on your kids. I don't have a job sending me
around the world and jumping on planes twice a week,
and I have been able just to be with them,
and that has felt indulgent and fun and awesome, and
(05:15):
our relationships have gotten significantly better, there's no question.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
But I always do want to check myself.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
I don't know, No, I get what you're saying. I'm
trying to not check you and be as hard on
you as you were kind of on yourself earlier. I
don't know road we it is. I'm I'm struggling with
this because I am love looking at at the gifts
(05:43):
and what's under the trees. Yeah, two trees.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
They're small trees, the equivalent of one big tree. Maybe
that's what's throwing me, because we have two trees and
two little areas of presents like that is a lot
of presence.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
But it's only that way because it's a whole story
behind that. We always have to get a real tree,
and then we happened to have it was our first Christmas,
the five of us, at least altogether last year, we
ordered this tree. On Amazon, this white tree with these
lights on it that sparkle, and it was a wonderful
Christmas and we kept it and it's now a part
of our Christmas tradition. There's no way that tree wasn't
(06:20):
going to go up, and we had to get a
real one. So that's why we had the two. We
didn't get two trees because we needed more space.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Pause.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
We had to make that clear.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
And like I said, I also think that maybe visually
the two trees is throwing me. And because they're smaller trees,
there's not as much room under the tree, so it
looks like they're piled up on top.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Okay, so maybe we shouldn't have done this episode. It's
just weird being fooled by it's an illusion.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
No, that's not now. I'm just trying to make excuses.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
And I had to wrap for three hours yesterday and
say I still have a lot more wrapping to go.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
That's insane.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
I'm curious with other people. Yes, I always try to
set a budget. I did have a list. I was
keeping dollar amounts next to it so that I had
an idea of what our budget is and how much.
But what happens is you go Black Friday shopping, you
go Cyber Monday shopping, you say, oh, look at this. Oh,
and then I see something that all three girls would like,
and then I get a gift for all and all
(07:12):
of a sudden it starts adding up beyond what they
had even asked for in the first place.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Yeah, that's happened. That's actually happened quite a bit. On
some fairly price the items. It's almost like you can't
get it for just one of them anymore.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Well, that's the other thing. Yes, they're all opening it
up together.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
They're all three girls, they all like the same basically.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
So then I'm like, well, I can't just get one,
I have to get three.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
And so I've been doing a lot of threefold gifts
that maybe also like, that's a lot of wrapping.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
It's a lot of wrapping.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
What does one do a part of it? That is
what is how it reveals itself in some ways by
buying too many gifts, that's where the guilt shows up.
But what is the thing you feel most guilty about
in the first place.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yes, robbing them of an experience, robby, I see, I
know these are triggering words, but you know, being responsible,
knowing you're responsible for having them, and I hate the
word normal, but feeling responsible for them not having what
(08:16):
you would consider and maybe what you and I had
growing up, which was a nuclear family, mom, dad, brothers, sister.
And it wasn't complex, it wasn't confusing. It felt safe,
it felt secure, it was structured. And our kids' lives
have had anything about that.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
That's where I am, like, I struggle and difficult saying
it out loud that that thing I wish Sabine had
that I do. I wish that could have been the case.
And I keep saying like that's like that was my
preference for her life, but it wasn't the best thing
(08:59):
for her.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
I know that because it wasn't the best thing for
your life.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
This and it seemed to get over that and to
seem it seems selfish to make a decision for yourself
that impacts other people. But it's tough sometimes to remember,
and we've talked to plenty of therapists about these things,
to remember that the best thing for the child was
to not see her parents in that house together.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
No, I think I've said this before, but a therapist
said this to me and this landed and I've always
used this is is this the marriage you want for
your child? And if it's not, can you do something
about it? Or do you need to make sure they
have an example of what an actual loving relationship looks like.
(09:43):
And if you can answer that honestly, then that leads
you in the right direction. That's what my therapist told me.
Would you want your daughters to be in the marriage
that they are witnessing every day?
Speaker 3 (09:54):
And there was a very clear answer for me.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
It's difficult. I know for a lot of parents are
dealing with us around the holl And I think the
numbers will tell you. I think it's a third of
kids in this country we'll go through their parents' divorce
before they hit adulthood. That's a lot of kids. And
that's a lot of Christmases. And one of the most
difficult parts that I've experienced in recent years Robes, is
(10:17):
any idea of having to split the holiday. I would
almost prefer to being just stay with her mom than
to have to go half and half on a holiday.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
That's very self less of you, because most people don't
feel that way.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
That's not a good I just that idea being split
into two, or being obligator in some way if she
just if she says she wants to go there, says
she wants to come here. That's fine, and she's old
enough she can decide. But I hate the idea of splitting. Yeah,
and we did that. Was it last year? We had
to do it.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
You drove on Christmas Day after we opened presents and
I think we had lunch together in like mid afternoon.
We had rented a house, and you drove her back
into the city so she could spend the last half
of Christmas with her mom.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Yes, so it is don't like that?
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Yep, like that.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I spent years and years and years doing that as well.
And yes, it's hard on me the parent, but it's
even harder on the kids.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
It's funny.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Even Analysa was saying we were talking about Sabine and
she said, oh, I I lived every single Christmas like that.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
I totally get it.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
It's not fun, but I do think it's it is
cool that they can lean on each other because at
least the older girls have been there, done that, and
Sabine's going through it and there's at least some I
guess there is a commiseration there is a recognition and
you do you feel seen?
Speaker 3 (11:32):
You're not alone? Right?
Speaker 2 (11:33):
They kind of feel like we can help guide her
because this has been our life.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Well, it's things have settled, things are great now. Let's
they can make decisions about where she wants to go
and can speak up and that's yeah. There's no negotiation
or anything that has to take place, and that's fine.
But I would always elect. I would tell her right,
I don't want her to feel guilty about Oh. I
want to make sure. I don't want to feel bad
for this parent or that parent. If she prefers to
stay at one spot, I would prefer her to not
(12:00):
see her on Christmas than to have her have to
do that. I say, have to. If she chooses to,
that's fine, but to have to do it and figuring
out schedules and what time is this dinner and what
time the gifts of being opened, I don't. I really
don't like that.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
You know, it's so interesting what you just said. You
said you don't want some being to feel guilty. And
it's funny. My mom used to always say to me,
guilt is a wasted emotion. Please don't ever feel guilty,
And yet it's the guilt that we're talking that we
have that we're trying to find a way through and
out of. But that's what you don't want for your kids.
(12:37):
You don't want your kids pulled or feeling guilty. So
then maybe that is part of the reason why, through
our own guilt we might overspend.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
And there are some that suggests we'll just talking about
the guilt part of it. One way to do away
with the splitting at least this suggestion that the families,
even of divorce, spend the Christmas together like you spend
it with y X in the house, just for the
sake of the kids. When you think about that.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Idea, look, you know what, when it works, I think
it's awesome. The biggest example I just was reading about
this is actually Ben Affleck and Jennifer Garner. They spend
holidays together. Are other there's another famous couple out there
who said they vacation together.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
That is impressive. That My hat is off to you.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
If you can stomach that and you can be not
just cordial but actually enjoy yourself around your ex for
your kids, that's incredible.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
It's just never been possible.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Now.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Look, I have had now enough years with Avan Anda's
dad where Yes, graduations, you've been in the apartment. He
comes with his wife and his children, and we're all
in the same house. And it's but that took years
to get.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
To that place, but we are there now one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Still weird.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Still, it's weird for me, and I think initially it
was weird for the girls.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
But I know that it makes them feel very happy
to see us all in the same place.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Getting along.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
That's it. That's the key. I will show up wherever
they tell me. I need to show up and get
along with who I need to get along with. Yes,
some limits there, I will say, but that's generally what
we're talking about. Now. We are back and forth on
this idea of guilt and overgiving of gifts because of
a feeling of guilt. But stay here, Rolles says, tracked
(14:21):
down what might be a pretty good plan to stick
to of only giving five particular gifts. Trust me, folks,
you want to hear this one. Stay here and welcome back, folks.
(14:44):
We'll continue here on Amy and TJ. Rooves. I thought
this was interesting, this idea. I'm not sure where you
find it. You can explain, But we struggle with what
gift to give, what kind and trying to think of
all these things. This kind of helps.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Yes, it was under a list of healthy alternatives to
guilt based gifts. I was googling divorce parents guilt buying
Christmas gifts, and so they said use the five gift role.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
This was so powerful to me.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
I actually would love to try this next year, the
five gift role. So you buy something they want, something
they need, something they wear, something they read, and an experience.
I think that's really really cool. You can set your
own limit on how much you want to spend whatever
(15:29):
that is. But those that I really like the idea
of it. Just thinking about having that be the guidepost.
I actually feel my shoulders drop because there is so
much pressure to make sure that you get them everything
they want. You get them things they weren't expecting. You
wow them on Christmas morning. And I don't feel this
way necessarily now, but I know a lot of folks do.
(15:50):
They are in competition with their ex because what are
they getting from the other parent, and so you feel
like you have to there's a one upsmanship that goes on.
So they were saying some red flo flags of guilt giving,
lavish spending. So if you find yourself spending more than
you should, more than you can afford, and trying to
buy more expensive gifts than the other parent, red flag manipulation.
(16:11):
And I have seen this using gift to control behavior
or to alienate the other parent.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Basically, you can only play with that at my house.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Oh I have seen this happen, babe. You can only
wear this at our house. You cannot bring that with
you to their house. And that is that you need
to examine why, because that is not good for the kid.
And I have absolutely watched that happen and it's heartbreaking.
The other the unhealthy competition. You're turning the holidays into
a contest with your ex and people do this, so
(16:43):
you have to like really be honest with yourself and
ask the whys. And really, the manipulation part, it sounds
so offensive, and yet I think it's incredibly common, very
much so, and you might not even realize you're doing
but you're doing it, and the kids know.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
The kids No, But I really like this five gift rule.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Do you I'll go ahead, Oh no, go ahead, Well
I was going to ask you after you have put this.
You see the five is this how you went about
it with the girls. Did you get them both something
they want? I know that's yes. To get them both
something they need, I know that's a yes. Something they wear? Sure,
read an experience? Did you give those.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Uh, let me see, I don't believe funny enough that
five gift rule.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
I have totally done for.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
You, like absolutely, I check check, check check. I have
almost always gotten them an experience, but I did not
this time. This might be one of the first Christmases
I did not. Well, you know what, if you count
the vacation we're going on, that's an experience. They're all
getting a pretty all getting an experience. So yes, we
are doing that. We are giving them an experience, and
(17:49):
that is absolutely a Christmas present.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
But you know what, I didn't get them read something
to read.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
That seems odd. We always get them something to read.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
I know. I feel like I wrap up books a lot,
but somehow I did not for them.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
We can rectify this, we will, okay.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
But I like this, and I think this keeps things
really simple and really.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Manageable.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
And if they know, that's what you get, because I've
even said to them, I'm like, guys, this is it
takes three hours to open Christmas gifts in the morning
it's out of control.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
And then another two hours of clean all deck crap.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
That's so true.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
I gotta get like two trash bags for all the
wrapping paper for the hours we spent rapp And.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
You're the I think you're the ridiculous one that even
before we start open and stuff, it's like three trash
bags strategically placed around the living room.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
I was already It's so funny you just said that.
I was already imagining me and Christmas morning.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
I get trash bags next to it like every other
person like, and I'll make sure you put in the dress. Also,
the reason why I do that is I don't want
gifts to get thrown away. That happens all the time
when all the wrapping papers everywhere, and then someone comes
in and scoops it all up and somehow someone's gift
got thrown out. So I just figure if the wrapping
paper immediately goes into the trash bag, you avoid that.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
That only happens when you buy too many damn guilt gifts. Well, folks,
hope you're I mean, yeah, we got days left here,
but this was I don't know. We had to stop
and kind of check ourselves. And we were having a
conversation and we thought, wow, I've got a bunch of
people are dealing with this as well, if they realize
it or not, are doing this And maybe we didn't
at times this year last year, but we're all human, bit.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Yes, and we can all learn from our mistakes.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
And I do think that it's only through making them
that you realize. Wait, I think I need to correct
something right now, and I need to acknowledge something about
myself right now. And once man, when you can get
rid of guilt, when you can shed yourself of that
and say, you know what, My kids are resilient, My
kids are strong. My kids are smart and brave and
they have been through a lot, but that's going to
(19:47):
make them stronger emotionally more stable individuals. And so that's
where I'm going to land this year.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Well, folks, hope you are having a good holiday so far,
and we'll continue. Good luck weekend last weekend before Christmas
South there again. Don't spend too much and don't spend
out of guilt, folks, We always appreciate you spending some
time with us. I'm TJ. Holmes by half of my
Dreamy Robot, we'll talk to us
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