Abortion Clinic Escorting

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to it could happen here. It's the show with
things fall apart and we put them back together again.
And there may may not be enormously about lawnmowers in
the background. Yeah, this is this is This is a
podcast also about abolishing lawns, although I guess I guess
not today it's only about abolishing lawns because I'm extume
we know it about neighbors. But we can we can

(00:26):
do an anti line episode in the near fu Yeah,
one day, one day, but but it is on on.
On a more serious note, is I have Garrison with me,
and I have Tanya with me, who is an abortion
clinic escort and has been doing this for a very
very long time. Tanya, thank you for joining us, Thank
you for having me. Yeah, I'm I'm really excited to
talk with you about this because, um, this is well,

(00:48):
this is something we've been wanting to do for a
while because I think not enough people know what this is.
So I guess I guess the first thing is is, yeah,
can you explain to people who are familiar with this
what clinic escorting is? Absolutely so. There are a number
of volunteer clinic escorts across the country, and many are

(01:11):
they're they're not necessarily organized nationwide, but many metro areas
do have organizations where you can volunteer to be a
clinic escort. And what that means is that you are
essentially someone who goes to a clinic that performs abortion services,
and you stand outside that clinic and you help the

(01:35):
patients get into the clinic, uh hopefully free of harassment
from protesters outside, and just ensure that protesters don't block
access to the clinic and that the patients are able
to get inside, you know, know where they're going and

(01:56):
get insanely Yeah, and that seems like it seems like
a really hard job in a couple of ways, but
both of the sense that like there's a bunch of
extremely angry and very weird people with really disturbing signs
and very sincerely held beliefs on in a different uh

(02:18):
side where they they do want to stop people from
going and convince them not to go in. Um, you know.
And it is interesting as as a clinic escort, you know,
you're you're really you don't have an opinion, Like I
don't have an opinion on whether someone goes in, someone

(02:39):
can go in, someone cannot go in. It's not you
know where the people who do the clinic escorting are
there because we believe that women and their partners should
have a choice about what to do. And so if
a woman chooses that she doesn't want to go into
the clinic, you know, that's fine by me. I'm just
there to ensure that she has the choice to go

(03:01):
into the clinic um and and get whatever services she needs,
whether it's uh, whether it's crenatal care or contraception or
abortion services. So um, it's it's fascinating because yeah, there
are a lot of people. You know, the protesters on

(03:21):
the other side can really run the gamuts. Some of them, um,
are very angry and have very interesting signs, but some
of them, you know, you they also range to those
who are just standing there saying the Rosary, walking up
and down, and the carrying crucifixes. And you know, if

(03:43):
it was just people saying the Rosary and then going
coming saying the Rosary and going, I probably wouldn't do
what I do because that's neither here nor there from me.
It's the people who are you know, they will try
to get in the window of a car when and
a car pulls up if if they happen to have
the windows down and uh, you know, get in the

(04:06):
like put their heads in the car to try to
talk to the people or hand them literature. Um. And
I've seen some of the literature that you know, people
have shared with us after it's been given to them,
you know, and it's a lot of it is full
of misinformation. Um and and kind of also you know,

(04:27):
as someone who was raised Catholic. Uh and and it's
coming from people many many of the people who are
protesting are Catholic. It's very emotionally manipulative and not actual
information on some of them. I remember seeing one once
around Christmas time that was like a whole cartoon about

(04:48):
how excited Mary was to be Jesus mom and uh
and and how therefore that means that you should not
have your pregnancy terminated because you should be more like
Mary and be excited to Jesus. Yeah. Yeah, pretty fascinated. Yeah.
And I guess that's another thing that that I was

(05:09):
wondering about to what extent, Like, so obviously there's a
physical component of this, right is okay, trying to make
sure that people aren't physically interfering, um. How much of
it also is sort of like providing emotional support to
the to the people you're with, sure, because it's really
stressful it can be. I mean, the clinic where I'm

(05:32):
an escort is is uh has a little bit of
a perimeter where uh there's there's a parking lot and
between the people where they can actually protest out on
the sidewalk which is public property obviously and the actual
entrance to the clinic. Um. But there are people who

(05:55):
come in off a public transport to and not necessarily
aren't necessarily coming in a car where they can get
sort of beyond where the protesters are um to the clinic.
And so I actually have a vivid memory. I've been
doing this for sixteen years, and I have a vivid
memory of a woman who came off the bus. She

(06:15):
got down off the bus at the bus stop like
and the protesters really got up in her face. And
one of them in particular was a guy who is
I'm not a small person, I'm about five ten and
and and pretty decent size, but he's definitely over six
ft tall and he was just like looming over her

(06:36):
and I had to physically insert myself in between her
and him and say, hey, you want to go to
the clinic, this is how you get there. You don't
have to listen to these people. If you want to
talk to them, you can, but you know you don't
have to, and you know, and and really, you know,
they're in such a fragile moment, most of them. Interestingly,

(06:59):
that that particular individual come to find out, wasn't even
coming for termination services. She was coming to get an ultrasound.
She was having twins, and it was the lowest cost
place that she could go to actually find an ultrasound
to make sure that her twins were okay, um and so.
And she even came out afterwards with the ultrasound and

(07:20):
like shoved it in the guy's face and was like,
you know, you know, go take a flying leap, but
um so, but yeah, I mean, part of it is
just showing that there are people who believe that you
have the right to make the choice you're making and
that we're not judging you. We're not here. You know.

(07:43):
I think a lot of women in the position of
who feel that the need to terminate a pregnancy, they
feel very judged. It's it's it's society is very judgments
Bault and I think you know, being there, we have
so many people who come up to us, UM just
say hey, thanks for being just thanks for being right.
It's it's just helpful to know that someone is here, uh,

(08:07):
and and and and believes that I have the right
to make this decision and that I'm the best person
to make this decision about me and my body and
my family. UM is really it's it makes it that much,
It makes it better. And and people will come up
and tell the most personal stories as well. We've had

(08:28):
someone who came up to me once and said, hey, no,
ten years ago, my wife was pregnant UM and we
had been trying for so long to have a baby,
and we found out that there was this massive, you know,
genetic defect that was not really compatible with life. And

(08:51):
we had we had we faced the tough decision about
do we go ahead and terminate this pregnancy and and
try to start again and how it and and and
get bring it again, or do we carry this to
term knowing that this child isn't going to live UM
for very long. And that individual um you know, and

(09:12):
his wife and decided to terminate the existing pregnancy, knowing
that the baby wasn't going to live. And he said,
and when we went to actually have the abortion, we
had to run the gauntlet of all of those people outside,
all those people like this telling us how we were
killing our baby. Um, I wanted baby. You know that

(09:35):
we were killing our child and we were murderers and
all of that. And so he was just like, just
thank you for being here, thank you for being here
and showing because you don't know what what's going on
in the lives of all of these people who are
coming in here, and they don't know all what's going on.
And so and he said, I really wish we had

(09:56):
had someone like you know, you standing here to let
us know that it was okay, you know, at the
in that moment of time to do this. So, yeah,
it's it's interesting people will tell very very personal stories.

(10:21):
The next thing I was wondering is about how how
this has changed over time. I mean, yeah, you've you've
been in this for like longer than I've been, like
very seriously a conscious person. So yeah, So so I'm
wondering what has it been like, how how has this

(10:44):
changed over the past sort of like a decade and
a half, And has there been a change like very
very recently, as in in in the sort of like
as as row looks like it's dying, and what do
you think that's going to mean going forward for this? Yeah,

(11:04):
so yes, it has changed over time. Um, and and
yes it has changed very recently as well. Um what
I what I can say. You know, when I first
started doing this, it was really just kind of you know,
the same hand and and it still is the same
handful of usual suspects who show up at least at

(11:25):
the clinic I escort at um. But it was really
it was it was a small handful and uh, it
was the same people every week, week week, week after
week after week. And um, you know on the clinic
sport side, you know, we're volunteers, so you know, we

(11:45):
need people to come and be sort of energized, and
so you know, we have a cadre of people who
have been doing it. Yes, I've been doing it for
sixteen years, but there's a woman that I I askeport with.
There are several women that I a skeport with who've
been doing it decades longer than I, right, And yeah,
I mean really amazing, really amazing women and who probably

(12:08):
have even more interesting stories than I do. But you know,
in the you know, and we would see after after
something happened, like when m George Tiller was murdered, we
had an influx of volunteers who came people who were
angry and said, you know, I was so upset and
I realized I needed to do something about it. UM.

(12:30):
So periodically there have been you know, obviously, you know,
the murder of George Schiller was a tragedy, but we've
had things like that that have energized people and brought
them in two actually doing a clinic escorting UM and
there's been a little bit of a pickup recently in

(12:51):
the number of escorts, but it's nothing like the pickup
that I think I've seen in terms of antis and
to custerers. And it's you know, and it's important because
you know, if you really believe that people should have
the right to bodily autonomy and the right to make

(13:13):
this choice UM, that that requires people to actually make
it happen for them, and there are a lot of
people trying to make it not happen. And I actually
I was actually sporting UM because the clinic esports. Uh
they you know, we actually change off we have a schedule.
We don't all go every week at least with the

(13:34):
clinic where I am, because you know, we also want
to have our own lives and not just be standing
at this clinic every every weekend. Um. But I was
esporting the weekend after Ruth bader Ginsburg died and I
was standing by myself kind of it went end well,
another person went and just I think picked up a

(13:56):
sign or took a bathroom right or something, and one
of the newer anties um stood across from me and
yelled at me that Ruth bader Ginsburg was was burning
in hell now and that if I didn't repent, you know,
that the same thing would happen to me, and that

(14:18):
that's just God's plan that you know, people who believe
in in killing babies, uh, just are going to rotten
hell for eternity. And and so that was an interesting
you know, and it was the first time. Most of
the time they don't really try to engage us in conversation,
but it was the first time someone was really just

(14:38):
saying super super like sort of inflammatory stuff to me
as an personally, as an escort. We certainly had heard,
you know, they'll they'll say things to patients where they say,
you know, I don't go in there, it's not safe,
you're good mom to your baby, and that kind of stuff,

(14:59):
which is a so you know, obviously incredibly originality to
women going through uh, you know what they're going through
when they feel that they have no better choice than
determinate pregnancy. UM. But uh, yeah, the actual sort of
the vitriol towards towards the escorts is a little is

(15:21):
increasing UM and I would say around the time Ruth
Bader Ginsburg died, we also have seen an enormous uptick
in the number of protesters outside the clinic um each
each week, as well as the length of time that
they will stay. UM. They they've actually about doubled the

(15:41):
length of time but they should stay UM. And so
you know, it's it's been a challenge. It's been a
challenge for us on the escorting side to actually cover
the ships because you know, we are again we're all
volunteers who have lives and want to live our lives.
You know, we're women who are mothers, grandmothers, men who

(16:06):
are you know, father's, grandfathers, who just you know, want
want to do something good and help out Um. And
you know, more and more at the time, we were
having to stay later, come earlier, stay later to ensure
that there's someone there, that there's a there's there's a
friendly or at least protective presence. Uh. For the women

(16:30):
coming into the have they gotten like, have they gotten
more violent? Um? You know, like I said, there's actually
so for us. It's where we are in kind of
the clinic where I work, are in kind of a
privileged position, so to speak. And that where they are stationed,

(16:51):
you know, out on the sidewalk is uh is far
enough away. Um, you know, across a parking lot from
from the clinic that you know that the physical altered
you know, interactions are are relatively rare. Um. I'm sure
you know that that wouldn't really be better A question

(17:12):
better place to a clinic escort who's on a clinic
at a clinic where you know, the entrance to the
clinic is right on a public sidewalk, right where I
think you know, they definitely do have significantly more physical interactions. UM.
I guess it's hard to say. It depends on how

(17:33):
you define that. Is it there from a long time
the one of the signs outside the clinic was a
photo of of the doctor who provided the termination services. UM,
a photo of him and his name, and it said
retire this person you know his name and the retire

(18:00):
abortionist and then his name. UM. And that that showed up,
I think, as I vaguely recall around the time George
Schiller was was murdered. UM, So what does that mean? Right?
So that's that's violent in and of itself. It's it's
a suggestion there of UM. You know, I won't pretend

(18:24):
that it's not you know, it doesn't sometimes go through
my head like you know, because there are clinic esports
who have been murdered. Um. And and so it doesn't.
It sometimes does go through my head, especially like you know,
certain times of year when we're bundled up and it's
called Um, you know, someone could come up behind me

(18:45):
and I you know, wouldn't necessarily always hear them or
see them. Um. And so it is. It's you know,
there's definitely always an undercurrent in a feeling of you know,
something would escalate. We're fortunate at my clinic that it
it hasn't too much recently, but we you know, I

(19:07):
would say, you know, again, as Rose dying you know,
they're getting more bold. Um. They're not supposed to trespass,
they're not supposed to come on into the parking lot. Um.
And yet there are some who are really trying to
test that boundary now, who will go to their car
not in the clinic parking lot, and then as they leave,

(19:30):
drive into the parking lot and around the by the clinic,
just to sort of um, intimidate people and and and
to can make the escorts concerned because obviously, you know,
when we're on foot, it's very hard to get physically
between them and something when they're when they're driving, um.

(19:52):
And so yeah, it's it's there's definitely an escalation in
that front, and and an escalation in in the rhetoric. Um.
You know, there are more, I would say, kind of
pointed signs, uh that that are used to try to
intimidate the women into not going into the clinic. There

(20:15):
was actually there's a sign that had been used for
it actually has been used for a little bit longer,
but it basically it had the names of two women who,
according to the antis uh had died under the care
of the services of the doctor at our clinic, which

(20:36):
in the end, when I actually did my own research.
Wasn't true. One one just very unfortunately had an allergic
reaction to the anesthetic, which is not something you know
unless you've been under anesthesia, and uh the other and
and it wasn't and neither of them was actually the
provider at at our clinic who was performing the service

(20:58):
at the time. Uh, those those individuals died, but it said,
you know, dead, and it had these two women's names,
um and a hundred and fifty thousand babies and um,
which is a little bit inflammatory. And then it's and
also misleading when you think about it, because you know,

(21:18):
the maternal mortality rate in the United States is like
over twenty three women per hundred thousands. So I was like, well,
even if this is accurate, even if this sign was accurate,
which it's not. You know, two women out of a
hundred and fifty thousand, that's way safer than actually for
pregnancy UM. And you know, so it's those kinds of things.

(21:41):
It's it's the mind games. And you know, as someone
who uh you know has seen this for while, like
you know, to me, the mind game is part of
the violence, even though it's not physical, it's it's really
you know, trying to to make people feel ashamed and

(22:03):
feel that they shouldn't come out. And I think that
you know, as as we're looking at Robe possibly being overturned,
you know, you're suddenly seeing all of these people coming
out of the woodwork. Because you know, so many women
in this country actually do abort a pregnancy at some
point in time, do terminate a pregnancy, and yet it's

(22:28):
not something anyone talks about because it's it's still because
of the dialogue in this country and because of the
way it is portrayed. It is something that most people,
you know, I don't want to be public about, not
just because of the politics of it, but because you know,

(22:49):
there are people who are made to feel ashamed and
as opposed to you know this, This was the right
choice for me at this point in time. Um. And
maybe under different circumstances it might have been a different choice. UM.
But yeah. So I think it's hard to say whether

(23:11):
violence has increased, um, because it's always had that undercurrent.
I mean ever since I've been starting, ever since I
started doing One of the things that we've talked to

(23:33):
a few other people, we talked to someone who was
doing security for the start of security plans for clinics,
And one of the things they were talking about was
like a shift in the kinds of people who were
getting involved in these clinics. And I'm wondering, in these
clinic protests, like I wonder, have have you have you
seen like I don't know, they were talking about, like

(23:54):
there's been some specifically fascist groups getting involved, And I
was wondering if like the kinds of people who've you've
seen have been like that, or like, you know, in
terms of the new people who are getting involved, are
they closer to like the kinds of people you usually
see see outside these clinics. So that's actually an interesting
point that I hadn't I hadn't thought too much about.

(24:16):
But I think you know, the previously, you know, when
I first started doing this, it tended to be kind
of your older Catholic uh, folks who are you know,
coming and saying the Rosary, you know, uh, standing there
with the statue of the Blessed Virgin Mary like in

(24:38):
front of the clinic and um, and and you know,
some could be pushy, UM. But I think it is
accurate to say there is actually a younger element of
anti abortion protester or anti choice really because the end

(25:00):
it's really about the choice, not and and so I think, yes,
I'm seeing younger and younger people. And it's interesting that
you mentioned that because a lot of them are men. Uh,
they're young, almost almost entirely white. There is a few

(25:20):
a handful of people of color, but um, they they
tend to come very very rarely. Um. And you know,
the it's interesting, So it was largely older white men
and women previously, and now I would say there are

(25:41):
many more younger men getting involved, a few women. But
when for most of the young and when I say young,
I would say, you know, well, well for the for
the clinic i'm at, I would say anyone under probably
the age of forty. But you also, um, you know,
really when when you know, even under the age of

(26:03):
thirty or five, it's with the exception of one, it's
meant it is it is white men. Um. And uh, yeah,
so that's that's interesting. I hadn't It's quite possible. Um,
certainly there are some that but you know, we as
clinic escorts are not actually engaging these individuals and conversation.

(26:27):
That's not something that you know. In fact, we have
to sign pledges that were, you know, at least for
the for the organization that we volunteer with, that we're
not going to engage in conversation with them. That we're not,
you know, because no one you know, and I guess
this is sort of the whole point of your podcast.
No one's going to change each other's minds on this issue, right, um,

(26:49):
and you know over over the parking lot, uh and
and one uh, you know sort of interaction. So we
actually we we don't and actively don't because we we
just you know, it's it's not worth it. We're there.
The point of being there is not to try to
get to know the other people, the the anti choice demonstrators.

(27:12):
It's not to try to you know, change their minds.
It's just to ensure that the women who have made
their decision are able to freely access the healthcare services
that they have made the decision access. Yeah, that makes
a lot of sense. That that's definitely seems like the like,

(27:34):
it definitely seems like the best strategy for this. It
seems like something that like other people could learn from
as like a tactic to deal with this kind of stuff,
because yeah, and engaging with those people, it doesn't I
have limited experience with this, but they showed up to
my well, okay, show to my high school. But then
they also show up to my college, and we just

(27:55):
like they were trying to like get in use footage,
and so we wound up just like sitting down in
front of the like just sitting down in front of
their signs so people couldn't see them, and then just
like refusing to talk to them, And that I think
worked a lot better than like, I don't know a
lot of the other stuff that I've seen, because yeah,
like definitely right, like yeah, like you're not gonna those people,

(28:16):
like yeah, like because there's no way you're gonna change
the mind of like someone if holding a sign there.
And I guess that's also another thing that that that
it's interesting about this, which is yeah, like it's like
your your emphasis on it's not about the audiological debate

(28:37):
as much as it is, like, it's not about like
you going to confront these people. It's about making sure
that the people who need the services are safe and
are able to do it. And that that seems like
a very powerful way to sort of like bypass this,
Like I don't know, bypass is weird. Like discourse circuit
that everyone gets in. Yeah, I mean I think you

(29:01):
know what I what I can tell you. I mean, listen,
I would love to sleep in on my Saturday mornings.
I don't. I don't like to to get up and
give up, you know, you know two to four hours
of my Saturday um, you know, in the freezing rain
or the you know wind and cold, run a really
hot some more day and get up out of bed

(29:22):
to do that. But you know, on those you know,
there are cold winter mornings where I'm like, oh gosh,
it's it's early. I'm that that alarms awfully early and
it's really cold outside. But I always just in my mind,
the thing that I tell myself is you never know
who's coming in today, who just needs to see you

(29:44):
and just needs to see someone there too. You know,
whether it's to give her the directions because she's so
distraught after having to drive or walk by a number
of protesters telling her how she's you know, going to
regret her decision and how she's a terrible human being
and she's a killer, and she's at this, she's a slut,

(30:06):
she's a whole lady. Whatever, you know, whatever the message
that someone in that um situation gets by walking past
those protesters. Um, you know, I never know who needs
to just see me there, and whether it's that she
just needs directions because she's so distraught after going through,
you know, running that gauntlet, that she's kind of lost

(30:27):
her bearings and she's like, Okay, which door do I
need to go in? How do I do this? Or
actually just needs to see you know, a friendly face,
or you know, have someone tell her that it's okay
to not listen to what they have to say to her, um,
and it's okay to not internalize that, which you know, UM,

(30:50):
I think it is probably very very hard when you're
already in a somewhat emotionally frauds because how could how
could people who want to start escorting what what would
be the best way that they could go about doing that?
Or learning more information about how to do it and
the different places that that allow it and well not

(31:11):
not allowed, like the different places where different groups that
help facilitate uh this type of work. Yeah, So I
mean I think there there isn't necessarily that I'm aware
of one sort of national site, but I think um,
a lot of individual uh sort of local providers have

(31:32):
clinic escorts. UM. I know that if you most like most,
if not many planned parent goods will have um, you know,
a clinic escort program. And so I think you know,
sometimes your best that maybe just to google you know,
clinic escort in my area or contact a provider in

(31:53):
your area to say, hey, how do I get involved? UM?
Because you know, based in my area where I where
I live, there is one that sort of covers the area,
but it is by no means nationwide, and there definitely
are sort of localized groups that do it. So I
think it may be just a matter of reaching you know,

(32:14):
googling the clinic esports or reaching out to your local
planparenthood or if there's another abortion provider in your community
that isn't plan parent, because there are still many that
are not unparented, uh that you know they may know.
And I guess my other thing is so for people
who for whatever reason can't to escorting but want to

(32:38):
help support. I mean it basically people who want to
support the providers and the people who need these services.
UM is like, yeah, what would you recommend that they do?
So there are also similarly to to those those groups,
there's UM, there's abortion funds throughout the country UM that
whether you know, many of them are you know, sort

(33:00):
of dedicated to individual areas, like local areas. But you
can look up the abortion fund in your area and
that is a you know, an organization that will actually
take donations from from individuals who want to help UM
and provide, you know, provide financial support to women who

(33:22):
are seeking abortion, whether they it's because they have to
travel out of state, uh or to somewhere even within
their state but not where they live in order to
to actually obtain an abortion. UM. And you know, because
many women who are are seeking seeking termination services, they
can't always pay for them, you know, especially if they're

(33:43):
publicly ensured, you know, a lot of public insurance, you know,
federal dollars cannot be spent on abortion services, and so
they can also help pay for the abortion for those individuals.
If you it's it's a little bit um tougher out
that we're in, you know, sort of in the midst
of a coronavirus pandemic. There are some organizations that also

(34:06):
if you live in an area that where there are
providers and there are people potentially traveling from out of state,
especially if you're in an area where there is a
provider who provides um, you know what they call, you know,
later term services for people who you know, find out
that there's a major genetic abnormality along far into the

(34:27):
pregnancy or whatever, and they need to terminate their pregnancy. UM,
you know, there are organizations that will actually help you
volunteer to house them or provide even transportation services to
and from appointments if if you so choose. UM. But
then you know, there's also all of the sort of
national if if you're looking to kind of get more

(34:49):
you know, involved at the sort of overarching national legal level. UM.
Certainly there are a number of organizations, whether it's you know,
the Planned Parenthood Federation or nay Ral or any of
those organizations that you could certainly don't eat too as well. Yeah,
we will, we will will put some of the links

(35:09):
in in theset description. And I'm sure that there are
many things I forgot, but those are the ones that
jump to mind right now. People listening to this, please
like go help in whatever way you can, because like,
if like if abortion services continue to be a thing

(35:30):
where them existing is a small number of volunteers, they're
not going to so yeah, please please do that. Yeah, Tanya, Tanya,
thank you, thank you so much for joining us, Thank
you for having me. Yeah and yeah, this has been
Make it happen here. Uh yeah, it's happening here. Do

(35:51):
the things that you can do to make sure it doesn't.
It could Happen Here is production of cool Zone Media.
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(36:11):
Happen Here, updated monthly at cool zone Media dot com
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