Chile and The Shock Of Victory

We talk to Chilean activists who spent months confronting riot police and tear gas and, wildly, kinda-sorta won.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcomed. It happens sometimes the podcast where it's happened. Shit, Um, Garrison, Chris, somebody, somebody,
somebody picked this up. This is on you. Anybody anybody
got help paying you out of this one? Okay, Well,
you know what podcasts this is. You've been listening, presumably

(00:26):
for months, or this is your first time listening. If so,
I've probably lost you already with that Bush League introduction.
Jesus Christ. Um, I'm Robert Evans. This is a show
about how things fall apart and how to maybe stop
them from falling apart as much. And today we're talking
to some people who were in kind of the best
case scenario situation for having a bunch of authoritarians try

(00:49):
to uh dominate your country, by which I mean we're
talking to some Chilean activists who who who won um,
And as much as it's it's possible to win in
the world, UM, it's a pretty exciting situation. UM, happening there.
I'm excited to introduce people to like what's been going on.
But first I want to introduce our guests for today. UM,

(01:10):
y'all wanna you'll wanna say hello hello. My name is
Jeremiah I'm from the United States. I've lived in Chile
for the last ten years, and I'm Stephanie Ahead. I'm
a Chillian and I'm leaving here with with my my husband. Hi.

(01:32):
I'm Nicholas. I'm too and I have been living here
for my whole life. Yeah. So we started a small
group called Nitos to do some activism to try to
get out to vote for the Pleglcito, to try to
UH last year to get the constitution approved to be

(01:57):
voted on, and and it successful. So we are proud
of the small bit of work that we did to
help that happen. And so today the constitution is being
written and it's a very exciting time. Yeah. And I
want to let's pull back a little bit because the
last time we we talked about UM Chile on behind
the Bastards in two thousand nineteen, when UM a protest

(02:19):
that started as some i think it's fair to say
zoomers protesting a fair increase by like jumping fares at
the at the underground the subway. UM was met with
police doing police stuff, which was met with people taking
to the streets and very significant numbers, which is the
thing that by now a lot more people are experienced with.

(02:39):
But unlike kind of what happened in my country, you
did it. You made him blink, and and that's what
the plebiscite is, right, like the there was an agreement
made to give because Chile was still, if I'm not mistaken,
governed under the same constitution that that Pinochet had had, right. Um,
and Pinochet famously not a great guy. UM, So I

(03:04):
wonder if you might give us kind of an overview
of y'all's experience during that time, from like the start
of the protests to oh ship we might actually get
to change things at a pretty fundamental level in our country. UM. Yeah.
So it was incredible time, about exactly two years ago.
So just the of October was just a two year anniversary.

(03:25):
And um, as you said, it all started with um
literal high schoolers, sixteen year olds who are protesting a
thirty paso increase, which is, you know, like increase in
the metro. But we of course have one of the
most expensive metros in the world and a very low,

(03:48):
um uh minimum wage here. And so as you said,
they went out there and started to jump the turnstiles,
but in massive groups, hundreds of them going to the
metro together and all jumping together, and in response, the
government ended up closing the metros. And so it was

(04:13):
this Friday night, UM, and we were having dinner and
UH suddenly the metros were all closed and everyone had
to just walk home from work or dinner or where
they were. And that was kind of the beginning of everything.
And it was almost like the government brought it on themselves,
because suddenly there were thousands of people in the streets

(04:33):
just because they had no other way to get home.
And from there, UH, they there were protests, and the
protests were met with extreme police oppression and water cannons
and tear gas and all of that, and UM. Eventually

(04:55):
it led to one March, which had over a million
people throughout Chile marching, and UM a series of marches
and protests basically every week for months. UM and finally
UH it came down to UH. They announced that there
would be this Plebilist site and it was a vote

(05:17):
yes or no to create a new constitution, because yes,
Chile is still There were some reforms in the early
two thousands to the constitution, but UM still we live
under the constitution written by Jaime Gustman UM kind of
you know, CH's right hand man, and we happen to live.

(05:42):
Nico is our good friend and also our next door neighbor,
and we live about four blocks from the Plaza Um
formerly Plaza Italia. Now the protesters have deemed it Plaza Dignidad,
and so we've been just in the middle of it
and for or for a couple of months are our

(06:02):
whole neighborhood was like a war zone and uh, just
really crazy protests every single day and and tear gas
and all of that, and it was it was really
intense for a while, and uh it still is. You know.
Um last Friday, uh we you know, were met with

(06:22):
tear gas and water cannons again. So it's it's it's
even though the kind the constitution is being written again
and the pledgliscite was a year ago, but the police
are still out there being bastards. Yeah, I'm curious what
each of you kind of sees as the moment when

(06:44):
or if you because maybe I was going too optimistic,
right like I guess I'm wondering, do you think that
a corner has been turned and and if so, what
was kind of the moment each of you felt like,
oh my God, we might Actually, this isn't just gonna
be like showing up to get the ship kicked out
of us. We're going to get somewhat least of what
we're fighting for. Wait technically, yeah, I mean I think

(07:06):
that like that particular moment was when we finally went
to the elections to who you call the referendum for
the for this new constitution, and we were kind of
skeptic about the the percentage of people who approved this
new constitution because a few months ago or a few

(07:32):
weeks before this referendum, we have like continuing quests polls.
We had the polls and they were kind of fifty.
So we're kind of skeptic about are we gonna have
a new constitution or not. And that the same night,
I mean, the process very quick, so after I know,
the this thing close at six pm and then you

(07:54):
have the results like three hours later. So on the
same day we're having the the results on it was
like eighty I guess twenty, So it was like kind
of shocking. I mean, we I think that nobody was
expecting to have this kind of percent of the people
until they were I went to throw to the being

(08:17):
the you know, tech Constitution, So it was kind of like,
I don't know out say that the best moment. Yeah,
there's this. There's an American, a deceased American UM sociologist
who who wrote an essay that I find quite influential
called The Shock of Victory, and it's about how activists
often failed to take advantage of of their momentum, like

(08:41):
because they're kind of surprised at the success early on,
and then they don't properly take advantage of what they
have when they have it, and and you know, progress
gets turned back, which I think we've seen happen in
the United States in the wake of of what happened
here last summer. Why do you think that that hasn't
happened in Chile? What do think it is that that

(09:01):
that enabled um, you you all to actually keep the
pressure on and and take advantage of that that moment
in time, which which never I guess that's what I'm
impressed with the most, is that you you' all did
manage to to make that momentum work for you rather
than kind of letting it pull you off balance. And
I guess I'm just trying to get a handle on
on how UM I guess for me, what I think

(09:24):
it's lost a lot in the conversation is UM the
premier linear, so the first line of defense. And so
you have UM a bunch of young people, anarchists, you know,
just crazy young people who went out there to fight
with the cops every single day, and it was really

(09:46):
impressive and a lot of times we uh, I don't know,
I feel like they don't get the credit they deserve
because you know, they're the delnents and that you know,
we talk a lot about the big march is when
there was a million people in the street and and obviously,
like Nico said, winning the vote by scent showed that

(10:09):
it was something that everyone in Chile wanted. But it
never would have happened if it weren't for the this
small group of of fighters who were there every single day,
facing tear gas and water cannons and police beating them
up with you know, throwing rocks and stuff like that.

(10:33):
So I think that's the main thing. It wasn't like
once a month or even once a week, it was
every single day and they were there on the front line,
and it none of this would be possible without them.
That's fascinating to me because obviously things like that, groups
like that existed here, like in Portland's Win every night

(10:53):
for not as long, but for not an insignificant amount
of time, and it was those same It was a
lot of these kind of young anarchists front liners who
were willing to go toe to the toe with the
cops every night. But you didn't have you didn't have
that kind of larger, more moderate populace backing them up.
And I guess one of the things I'm curious about
is what was kind of the you mentioned you don't
think they get the credit they deserve. Was there a

(11:15):
broad attitude that, like, these people are the ones going
face to face with the cops, so that those of us,
you know, people who are older, people who aren't and
it is going to ship people who can't physically take
as much abuse can still show up or was it?
I'm kind of curious how how those people represented what
they were doing and how it how it was seen
by most of kind of the more moderate people who

(11:36):
still supported change around you, because that that dynamic exists
in any mass protest movement, and I'm it worked where
you are, and I'm trying to get a handle on
maybe how it was different than what I saw in Portland.
Uh so now a lot of them are in yo
and um or without one eye, so is uh it's

(11:58):
really terrible because else we have all these new beautiful
process but we are without really completely democracy with liberty
with the for this guy or or democracy for all

(12:18):
this um person that loose eyes or uh yeah and
everyone that was injured. Um So, yeah, a lot of
protests nowadays. Actually I think today right now there's a
protest going on to free the political prisoners um and uh.

(12:42):
But yeah, I mean I think they're even among you know,
obviously of the country voted for the new constitution, so
there's a lot of different points of view there. But
but yeah, there was division even among the left. A
lot of people said, you know, this is not the
form of this is not the way to protest, and

(13:04):
we should not be violent and you know, burning things
and um. But but there was a lot, I mean,
you saw a lot of the opposite where people were saying,
just as you said, like those out there on the
front line are the reason that the older people and
others can come out and feel safer to protest because

(13:25):
the primary linea is kind of taking the brunt of
the violence from the police, and that allows the older
people and those who are are less confrontational to be
out there in protests. So for me, some of some
of the most inspiring signs I remember seeing are like

(13:46):
folks that are eighty years old and they have signs
that say, you know, Gracia sala primary LINEA. You know,
like thank you to the front liners who who are
taking that violence so that they are ball the others
to to protest in a more peaceful way. That's such
a fascinating situation to me that you've got You've got

(14:08):
these these more radical frontliners who were, as you say,
critical in allowing this, this really groundbreaking change to occur
in your society. But at the same time, things haven't
changed enough that number one, the cops will beat the
ship out of them, I'm guessing are still largely employed,
um and and a bunch of them are in jail.
I'm do you have much hope that at the very

(14:29):
least there will be something to like get these people
out or is it is that maybe a bridge. I
don't know, I don't know your country obviously, Well, you know,
I'm curious, like, do you feel like there's much hope
in pushing for that because it seems like, you know,
those people need to be free. Yeah. I mean most
of these guys who are in prison and they have

(14:51):
spent like, oh no, like twelve months in prison without
any evidence, so yeah, all the world of the cops,
I guess them. So after I know, like thirteen months
for ten months, they will finally get released because they
have they have no evidence, or they could they may
find that the police they made up all the evidence,
so they they finally go out. But I mean, you

(15:16):
spend like almost a year in prison, that's me. It's
clearly like political. I mean you're a political prisoner, like
they got They got you in prison with no evidence,
without any profit process. They keep you in prison for
a year, and who's gonna pay for that? I mean
you lost a year. Yeah, we're talking so far about

(15:48):
the sacrifices made here. What do you think with this
new constitution, you and your your your fellow Chileans, what
are you gonna get? Like? How what are the changes
that are seemed to be most concrete and the ones
that you think are most important? Um? I think already
it's been groundbreaking. I believe it's the only constitution ever

(16:09):
to be written by a plurality of women and and
also to have a representation from the indigenous peoples. And
uh so it's already been very um inspiring and groundbreaking. Um.
The President of the Constitutional Convention is a very inspiring

(16:33):
um Mapuche leader woman UM. And the good thing is
that the right um it represents less than one third
of the Constitutional Convention, so they don't have the power
to block um anything uh as far as only by

(16:58):
the right, so we will see. But they literally just
started writing the constitution last week. So yeah, yeah, it's
still but that's I mean, that's that's a significant Is
there a kind of a broad agreement that one of
the things that needed to happen here was a redress
of grievances between the indigenous people um and the and

(17:18):
the state, Because it sounds like that's a significant chunk
of what's what's been already agreed upon. Just but like
how this is coming together? Yeah, so uh well, Nicok
probably tell a lot more about this than I could.
But um, there's a big deal with the Uniteds with
the indigenous people in the South and the government um

(17:43):
basically waging war against the indigenous people. Actually, uh, two
weeks ago Niera, the current right wing president um declared
a state of emergency in the south and he just
extended it for fifteen more days. So we have the
military and the out um and they are you know,

(18:04):
with the tanks and attaching attacking the the Mapuche and
other indigenous people there. And uh so yeah, a big
aspect of Chile right now is the the the fight
between and and the oppression of the government against the
native people. And and it's a cultural thing too. I

(18:26):
mean it's it's really heavy everyone. Most people here in
Chile are are mixed, you know, between the the natives
and and the white men and everything, and you know
the Europeans um, but the Mapuche and the other indigenous
groups have really not um received a lot of respect

(18:49):
in the last thirty years. And and so yeah, that's
a big aspect. Yeah. For me, it's very inspiring to
have like the pressing of this new constitution to be
uh I'm a bit woman, so um yeah, I mean
I guess that the most important thing, like the thing

(19:13):
that this indigenous people want to claim is their land.
I mean land for them is the most important thing.
And that's what the government only for the last three
hundred years they have been taken from to them. Um.
They are now like trying to claim again their their
their space. So I mean, let's go that this new

(19:34):
constitution will bring them back their land, um, the respect
that they deserve. Now, there's been a lot of discussion
about this, this new constitution as I think the term
used as an ecological constitution, um, and it's it's the
necessity of it addressing a lot of the climate, not
just climate change, but like a lot of the things
caused by climate change, like unequal access to water. Um.

(19:58):
There's been discussion asio costa of of the f I
m A and GEO has has is arguing currently that
the Constitution needs to enshrine a human right to water
and recognize it as a common good. Um. It's obviously
again they're writing it this week, so it's kind of
unclear if that's going to happen. UM. But I'm I'm
wondering kind of what you what y'all think it's actually

(20:20):
because as you've talked about, you know, with the protests ongoing,
with the military being deployed in the South, this is
not a finished fight. Um, it's just a fight that
a lot of progress has been made on what do
you think is reasonable to expect from this new constitution
in terms of of of climate change, in terms of
ecological justice. Also, I think the right of the of water.

(20:44):
So water is privatized here, so Chileans here in Santiago,
we have to pay a Spanish company too for our water. Sure. Um,
I would say, like the economy in this country is
based on like structivism, So you have like the most
productive things mining, and then you have like the forestry

(21:06):
and all these things, like they have an enormous impact
on the environment and the people until I mean the
people who live right next to these kind of things,
they don't get anything from them. I mean, the poorest
places are like right next to the forest trees, rightness
to the mining. So it's kind of like we're creating

(21:29):
a lot of income from these things, but we're not
getting anything from them and all. I mean Also, it's
not like a thing like let's get everything back to
the state, I mean to the state, because it's it's
more than that. It's just like like um, ecological equality, equity. Yeah, yeah,

(21:51):
it's not saying we should take all of the private
water and give it to the state as much as
it's saying everyone who lives here has a has a
personal right to enough water to survive life. Yeah, so
you have rounds where small little towns and uh, they
don't have any water to drink because all of their
water is to the going to the farm owned by

(22:12):
Nessley to make, you know, to grow avocados to sell
to Europe and the United States. So, um, yeah, it's
it's uh, it's it's a pretty crazy thing. One of
the things that's most interesting to me about your situation
is you you are in a place where not entirely

(22:34):
similar dissimilar from the United States, you have a police
in a military that are heavily dominated by by right
wing ideology. Obviously, like the United States is partly responsible
for that in your case, we we funded it for
a very long time. Um and uh. And so it's
still an ongoing fight. But at the same time, clearly

(22:56):
the people are unhappy enough with that situation and hold
like that they were able to make. They were able
to force the folks with with guns to um to
recognize that they can't hold on to everything that they
wanted to hold onto. And I I guess I'm what
how can we do that? Um, I'm I'm very impressed

(23:21):
by like, and you know, watching from the sidelines, I
was just so happy to see this not go where
I think we were all scared it might go, you know,
in either the direction with like Syria, where it turns
into this horrible blood bath, or where everything gets crushed,
you know it. And and I I'm wondering, like why
you think on a on a broader scale, what do

(23:42):
you think was responsible for those people with access to
the guns deciding we can't hold onto this. Like, Yeah,
I'm just I'm so intensely curious about that because it's
it's it's important for a lot of people and a
lot of other parts of the world. Yeah, I don't know.
I mean I think it was just the protests and

(24:03):
the daily protests and and just getting out there, keeping
the pressure on. And at some point, you know, it's like, hey,
this is not good for the economy, you know, like
so all of the rich people, um, and you know,
the ten families that are in control of you know,
sixty or seventy percent of the wealth of the country. Yeah,

(24:26):
and they at some point had to recognize that this
was something that that you know, had reached its boiling
point and and they could no longer respond with just
force because they tried it and it didn't work for
months and it was just months and months of protests

(24:47):
and um and uh. And obviously that caused a hit
to the economy and that caused a hit to the
wallets of of the ultra rich. And so at some
point they they realized that they had no other move
to play than to accept it in some way and uh,

(25:07):
and that's how we got, you know, this new constitution
that is being written. One thing I was interested about
is the geography of the protest because I know Chili

(25:30):
very urban population. And also it was is it like
it's like a quarter of the population or something lives
in Santiago, like in in that area, And I'm yeah,
so sorry. I just want to note, if I'm not mistaken,
there were only five. You have kind of communes instead
of states, is what they're called. Um, like ten voted

(25:51):
in favor of the referendum and only five voted against it.
If I'm not mistaken, Well, communes are within cities like
different It's like Burroughs in New York, but we have
different regions instead of states. And um, and I think
they all voted. They might be like seven. But when

(26:14):
you might be thinking of um of yeah, Robert, you
might be thinking of communes in Santiago where Santiago is
very um. So it's all on the Rio Mapocho, the
river which goes east to west across the city and
basically you have this like very rich part on the

(26:35):
east and up into the hills and um, and then
it gets poorer and poorer as you go to the west.
And um. Yeah for the vote for the constitution, Um,
it was everyone voted for the constitution except for these communes,
these ultra rich in the east. Amazing, Okay, just think

(26:59):
it's something was curious about this was so when when
the protests were going on, um, because you know Chile's
had like huge protests before, I mean even the last
decade or what I was interested still also with this
time is like, well, hey, what do you think it
is different about this than say like two thousand and
eleven ChIL wasn't thirteen? And then be in terms of

(27:20):
like the geographic breakdown of where people are and where
they're going, is it that you know? So so you
have this, you have this classifying the city, but we're
the working class districts, like we're people staying there in
those graf structure where they like moving from those places
like to protest inside of the richer urban areas. I

(27:42):
would say, like, I mean, yeah, we have like many
protests in the past, but there were more kind of
like I don't know, like students protests, and then you
have like you know, like university protests. But when we
have like this protest like that the one we have
on TODWNSA nineteen, it's like something that unites everyone. I mean,

(28:03):
you don't have to be a students, you don't have
to go to university to protest. I mean it's something
that it's affecting everyone. I mean, the fairs of the metro,
they affect everything on the in the quality in the
country affects everyone. So um, I mean that I guess
that's that's the thing that make this protests of the

(28:23):
TOTASA nineteen unique in this term. Yeah, And I think
it was actually a problem when all the protests were happening,
A lot of people were saying, we can't keep going
to the plaza. You know, the cops are just going
to wait for us in the Plaza and you know
it's going to be a ship show and we need
to you know, protest all over and there were protests

(28:44):
across Chile and every single major city. UM but I
will say the majority of the protests have been um
here in the plaza and close to Lamoneta where the
presidential palace and UM but some of the most memoriab
protests center to and and the Coast Nara Center, the

(29:05):
tallest building in Latin America, which is a mall and
a monument to this idea that Pinera has of um,
the way of Chile being an oasis in South America.
We're not like other countries where we're like the United States,
you know, where this capitalism capitalists oasis and exactly. Um

(29:31):
but but yeah, so some of the most memoriabal protests,
they weren't super common, but we're exactly that where the
people said, you know what, we're not going to the plaza,
we're going to Coast Nara Center where we're going to
vist the coora, We're going to where the millionaires live,
where they work, and um that those were really powerful

(29:52):
and so that's when you started to see like all
of those banks and malls and just blocks and blocks
of what the rich folk like to call Sanhattan, you know,
Santiago Manhattan, the skyscraper part of the city, and it
was just all boarded up, you know. Um because there

(30:15):
there were definitely a couple of weeks where the protests
went that way, and and and yeah, it was inspiring.
What I keep coming back to when I look about
like why it worked, It wasn't because the front liners
just kept the pressure up, because the front liners did
in a lot of places here, the front liners stayed
out well after everyone else stopped coming out. It's that

(30:37):
the population kept up the pressure, like the there were
like Chile as a as a as a nation, as
a as a people kept up the pressure in in
a in a pretty significant way, um as opposed to
kind of fading back after the first couple of weeks.
And I mean it, I think, I'm sure the question

(31:00):
of why it happened has a lot to do with,
like you said, inequality, you know, things that have been
going on for decades. It's it's a it's a complex situation,
but it does seem like that's one of the big
takeaways that if you can you can secure even in
even in a pretty terrifying situation. A lot of concessions,
a lot of of what you need, but but people

(31:21):
have to have to keep putting themselves out there. Yeah. Absolutely,
I would say it's a couple of things. Um. One
is um, as you mentioned, I think it's like the
culture of protests here, you know, especially in the last
ten years, like um with the revolution penguins inleven Um,

(31:45):
you know, and there are and the feminist protests and um.
So it's it's not something that just happened two years ago.
It's the last decade or two has has and the people,
especially the young people, going out there and protesting. And

(32:06):
that's that's one thing that's inspiring about Borid the candidate
for president. The election is next month, so the left
wing candidate, Boridge, and he came out of that movement.
He was a student protester and a leader of the
student movement. And so I think it's like it grew

(32:26):
out of that, it grew out of kids in high
school saying this is just what we do. This is normal.
We go out there and protest when when ship happens.
And and the other thing is, yeah, you know we
always say here in Chile, after the protests started. Um,
it's not thirty pace those it's thirty years, you know,

(32:47):
thirty years of neoliberalism, of this revolving door of center
right and center left, and and just continuing on with
the um economic oppress and and the other thing I
feel like people don't understand is that, uh, you know,
people either think Chile is like the United States or

(33:08):
they think it's like Peru or something, you know, and
it's really neither. In Chile, the minimum wage is half
of what the United States is, which is already terrible.
But um, the cost of living here is almost the
same as you guys in Portland. I mean, not the

(33:30):
housing probably, but like you know, yeah, yeah, it's like Europe.
You know, I could move to Berlin and live cheaper
than here, you know, but it is hard to of
three times that, you know. So so I think it's
that's the other thing is people just they they had

(33:50):
no other choice, you know, and we're just poured down
by by thirty years, you know, after twenty years of
the dictatorship, thirty years of this terrible wages and um,
just neoliberalism, and so so I think it's it's partially
that and partially just like the culture of protests that

(34:12):
grew out of the student movements in in the early
two thousand's. Mm hmm. Yeah. There was one thing that
was interesting, also interested about that I don't remember seeing
much of at the time, was what was Chilian organized
labor doing during this It's a good question. Honestly, labor
hasn't been a big part of the protest, at least

(34:34):
from my point of view. You know, I don't know. Yeah,
I mean, it took a pretty strong hit during the
Pinochet years, if I'm not mistaken, So there was kind
of that, Like, I guess that does make sense. Sure, Yeah, Honestly,
I don't know a whole lot about labor history here
in Chile, but um but yeah, it definitely is. I

(34:56):
mean you would see you know, um union groups in
the straits here and there, but um but but definitely
they weren't a leading voice in the protest, I would say. Yeah. So,
I guess that leads into the other. I guess one
of the other things that, from from my understanding, has
been happening all across Latin America, but but in in

(35:21):
chill in particular, is the rise of the informal sector
and people just sort of not having access to sort
of stable wages in labor. And I'm wondering about Okay,
so organized labors, like the classical unions aren't really involved
in this, And I guess I'm interested in how if

(35:43):
I'm right that that you're dealing with a lot of
people who aren't doing traditional labor stuff, what was the
process that was able to get people mobilized. It's like,
especially people who just have no sort of like people,
people who are in the informal sector and people who
aren't involved in the sort of older classical organizations. Yeah,

(36:03):
I don't know. I guess I would just say it's
like that that culture of protest um that comes from
the young people, uh in the last twenty years. And
then of course, um, the older folks who um, you know,
uh lived through the dictatorship, and of course, um, there
were an incredible protest at that time too. And and

(36:27):
so I don't know, I mean, honestly, I was, even
after living here for you know, six years, UM, I
was shocked. I never thought it would come to this.
I never thought I would see, you know, over half
a million people in the streets of Santiago, um. And
and I would never never thought we'd see a new constitution. So, UM,

(36:51):
I don't know, I don't, I don't have the answer
is it's uh, it's surprising to me. But UM, what
I will say though, is I don't want to paint
a Rosie portrait of Chile right now because if like
we mentioned, you know, uh, tomorrow night, if you guys
go to uh Galerria sema c I m A on

(37:14):
YouTube or instagram. Um, they have a live feed of
the plaza for blocks from our house. And every Friday,
you know, use the protests come out and sometimes the
cops are there right away and they make a whole
perimeter with two cops and all of the you know,
tanks and everything, UM, blocking entrance to the plaza in

(37:38):
every direction. Sometimes they let the people protest. But then
at ten o'clock, you know, after the sun comes down,
they come out there and you know, it's it's the
same thing were a young woman was was killed a
couple of weeks ago. So and the other thing is
that we have this election coming up, and uh they

(38:00):
sky cast extreme right winger Pino Certista um just like
they call him the Chilean Bosonaro um A real piece
of ship. And uh he has, Um, he has really
risen in the polls in the last month or two. UM.

(38:22):
The right wing candidate Sitchell, who won the right wing primaries, UM,
and was kind of going to be the successor to Pinera,
the current right wing president. UM. Because in Chile, you know,
you can't run consecutive you can't have consecutive terms. UM.
But Sitchell just kind of was not a great candidate

(38:43):
and uh kind of blew it and and he went
down and and now Cast is going up. And it's
really scary to think about Cast getting into the second round, UM,
where it will probably be him verse Boris and UM.
And so yeah, you know, even though the constitution was

(39:06):
approved by seventy of the country, UM, you know, it's
very possible that this election is going to come down
to a runoff between a you know, moderate socialist like Boridge, UM,
not the most extreme leftist in fact, known as Amario,
you know, very yellow bellied here in Chile, that's his nickname. UM.

(39:29):
But it will probably Right now, it's looking like it's
going to come down to him and Cast, who is
like almost a return to the dictatorship. So it's it's
pretty scary geez. So it's just this there's just so
much fighting to do. Yeah, it's just so much fighting

(39:49):
to do. Um, I mean I I uh yeah, um,
do you have do any of you have anything else?
You want to make sure you say or talk out
before we kind of close out for the day. Oh no,
I will say, like three days ago, I just pay
my I finally pay my whole student loan. Like like

(40:11):
I've been working for more than ten years in my
life since I finished the university, and I've been wasted,
I mean all my savings. I just pay this fucking
student loan. I guess that you guys in this in
the States are like the same, like I don't know,
except for people don't pay off their student stays there forever.

(40:34):
And I just I just I would like to wish
to the other, to the coming people that I mean,
I don't wish that future for my from I mean
for the future people in this country. I don't wish
anyone that I mean university, I mean all students should
be um study for free. I mean it's like unconsiderable

(40:59):
for me. Yeah, So that was a big part of it.
And then also the I fit pay pension system here,
which is totally privatized, and so you, uh, you, the
government just takes your money for retirement. You get to
choose between four or five options which are private companies,

(41:20):
and then um, if you make money, then the company
takes you know, their chunk of your your retirement as
the payment for managing your fund. But if you lose money,
then it's on you. So literally, you know, Stephie's mom
is like, you know, checking on her retirement, how did

(41:42):
I do this year? It's like, oh, you lost two
thousand dollars this year. That's that's your requirement, Davis. You know,
so you and you have you know, people here trying
to live on you retirements of one hundred dollars a month. Wow,
the military is receiving hey, thousand dollars a month. You know.

(42:02):
So that was a big part of it. Um. But
I think what I always come back to here in
Chile is, like we've said, the activist renamed the plaza Plaza,
dig me Dad, And that's what it all comes down
to is just we're not asking for you know, ponies,

(42:24):
as Hillary Clinton would say, We're not We're not asking
for the moon. We're just asking for basic dignity that
everyone deserves and it's as simple as that. So we
just have to cross our fingers and hope that we've
done enough that that you know, at a minimum, you know,

(42:44):
people can live and retire with some dignity, that's all. Yeah,
and uh, and that enough ecological justice can be gained
that people can survive what's coming. Um. Which it's it's
nice to see at the very least that that's a
central topic of discussion. Um. Whereas in the United States,

(43:08):
everyone in power seems fine with just ignoring the increasing
problems right now. So I don't know, you know, I again,
I also don't want to be painting too rosy a
picture as you've as you've repeatedly clear, there's a lot
of of struggle left still, um. But at least you've
you've you've achieved a lot. And I I've just heartened

(43:31):
by by hearing your story and and and hope that
more people pay attention to what's happened there and try
to take lessons from it, because I think we all
need to be we all need to be gearing up
um as as I'm sure you all will continue to
continue to do anything else before we close out. UM. No,

(43:52):
that's it. I mean, I completely agree. I think that
just like the messages that like, you know, better things
are possible, like you know, real real change can happen.
You know, like this started uh two years ago with
high schoolers protesting, and now we're going to have a
vote on a new constitution and it's going to be

(44:13):
an ecological constitution, a blurry natural national constitution, um, with
respect for the indigenous people. It's it's uh, it's written
by you know, an equal amount of men and women
and everything, and and so yeah, just I think for me,
it's so easy for us who have grown up in

(44:37):
you know, under the gloom of neoliberalism, to to just
get really depressed and fatalistic about it. And uh so
for me, I feel the same way, like it's just
such an inspiration and the Chilean and and especially the
Chilean youth. Um. But but yeah, um, it's just an

(44:58):
inspiration and uh and proof that that change can happen. Um.
But it's not just voting. And you know, like Chileans
have elected socialists, you know, the former president was a socialist,
but it was just the same neo liberalism bullshit. So
I think, you know, voting is great, but like that's

(45:19):
just not enough, and so you have to, um, you know,
get out in the streets and try to organize and
make real change in other ways as well. All Right, yeah,
I agree entirely. Thank you all for coming on. Um
I couldn't appreciate it more and I hope you have

(45:41):
a lovely rest of your day and a lovely continuing
to uh stick it to the sons of bitches. It
could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media.
For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
cool zone media dot com, or check us out on

(46:01):
the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
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Happen Here, updated monthly at cool zone Media dot com
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