New York Antifascists Confront the Far Right

Robert sits down with two New York City Antifascists to talk about the strategy behind different actions to counter far right organizing in the city.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to it could happen here, a show about things
falling apart and also putting things back together. Today we
have an episode about well it's that this is This
is kind of a big one, folks. So everyone who
listens to the show regularly will know that there have
been a rash of attacks by the far right on
drag Queen's Story hours and kind of similar events to that.

(00:27):
Events that are LGBT friendly, events that also involve children
have been regularly attacked all over the United States. At
the same time, there have been escalating attacks by right wingers,
often the very same people on reproductive healthcare resources clinics,
that sort of thing. Um. This is happening all over

(00:47):
the country, but one place where things have been particularly
aggressive as of late is in New York Um, New
York City. And today we're going to be speaking with
a couple of different people who live in New York
who have been present at some of these actions and
who want to talk about what's been going on with
the far right and the attempts to defend these people

(01:10):
in these organizations from from right wing aggression. So I
want to introduce Talia. Now, Talia, you are known to
our audience. You've been on this show and some of
our other shows a couple of times in the past.
Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me, and hello
to everyone who still remembers what I sound like. And

(01:31):
do you wanna you wanna drop your your your Twitter
and stuff up at the top here too, because you
do a lot of on the ground reporting at different
times in the city. It's pretty simple. It's Talia O
t g as an on the ground um and yeah
that's where I do my reporting on events analysis all

(01:54):
that dumb ship. And then our other guests are two
New Yorker is sorry, New York people, um, who are
both anti fascist activists who have been present in the
streets for a number of these recent events. I'd like
to introduce Tom and Barry. Do we want to go
around and do pronounced real quick? Here? Um, I'm I'm

(02:16):
he him? Yeah, sure, I'm she? Are they? This is Tom,
I'm here him and I'm she her? Awesome? All right,
Well that is so, I guess I'd like to kind
of start and and hand it over to to Talia
if she wants to give kind of an overview of
how all of this has has has gone down. But
basically we've seen. I mean, the thing that surprised me

(02:38):
most in the coverage that I have watched from a
distance is how aggressive and large some of the right
wing presence has been at like reproductive health clinics in
New York City. I was kind of surprised to see
that in New York. Yes. So there's a group in
New York called NYC for Abortion Rights and they host
once monthly clinic defenses at the Planned Parenthood on Bleaker

(03:02):
in Lower Manhattan. UM. And they do that because there
is a church nearby the basilica of Old St. Pat's
that hosts a a coalition of anti abortion religious zelic groups.
They organized these large they're usually processions to the Planned Parenthood,

(03:25):
where they pray outside, they throw holy water on the building.
They attempt to hand out UM propaganda and literature and
intimidate people who are coming into the clinic for necessary
health services. UM. And these dame individuals have been seen
attending anti vaxx rallies that the man who leads the

(03:49):
procession to the Planned Parenthood UM his name is Christopher Mansinski.
He's also known as Fidelis, and he has invaded clinics
in White plain New York in I think UM East
Hempstead UM. He has been trying to revive Red Rose Rescue,
which UM. People who are familiar with the fight for

(04:11):
reproductive rights are probably aware that that is the primary
group that invades clinics and tries to harass patients, UM,
threatens doctors and care workers and all all sorts of things.
That the main people who lead Red Rose are either
in jail or have died thankfully, UM. And he's trying

(04:34):
to revive that here in New York. UM. And he
has attended um rallies organized by bar right conspiracists, Anti
vas conspiracists UM. And it's like, you know, he he
went to d C for the March for Life and
then he stuck around for the My Body, My Choice,

(04:57):
Anti vacks rallies. It's it's very it's it's very contradictory.
But we see these same people because they're aligning on conservativism,
on crystal fascism, and we're seeing him pop up UM
insured spaces pretty frequently in New York in ways that
I think are more transparent or like more easy to

(05:18):
clock here, even if there is like a larger density
of them that do mobilize to these specific things like
clinic Crossman's Yeah, that's um, that's a really interesting point.
And that's also what we've seen a lot in the
Pacific Northwest. Um. You know, we just had an attempt
at rally at a drag Queen Story Hour in Eugene

(05:40):
and it was a lot of the same old crowd
who used to rally in Portland before they got scared
off of Portland. Now I'm wondering kind of what how
would you characterize the response of the police to these
events and how they kind of have have have treated
the right wing at these Well, it is about it's uh,

(06:00):
cliche as cliche comes. Because every single time, Um, when
I've covered clinic defenses specifically, the police are helping move
the procession along and threatening clinic defenders with arrest on
the basis that they're blocking the roadway. Um they are.

(06:21):
They they essentially work as like secondary of security. Um.
Sometimes they will split off from the other police and
be like pushing and shoving clinic defenders on their own
in a way that doesn't make any sort of strategic sense.
But it's like they're getting enjoyment from doing that. Um,
it's it's the same story over and over again. You know,

(06:42):
we see it in in San Diego when anti fascists
were mobilizing against uh like Trump's supporters that were being
very violent. The Trump supporters were doing the violence, and
it was the police that were attacking the anti fascists
trying to fight against like trying to defend themselves against
the far right um. And we saw the same thing

(07:04):
at Penn State just the other night. The there was
a gaggle of like proud boys or I think Tess
Owen referred to them as fascists in all black, who
were macing the crowd and they they you know, I

(07:25):
didn't do anything. The police escorted there was an incident
where a Proud Boy was assaulting or like somehow there
was a fight that happened with a demonstrator and a
Proud Boy and the demonstrator. The police threw the demonstrator
on the ground and then escorted the Proud Boy into
the building where Gavin mcinness and Alex Stein were supposed
to put on a very bad it didn't end up happening,

(07:48):
lead him back to his friends. Jesus Christ I asked
that question, and I know everybody like listening, and I
know all of you knew like what the answer was
going to be. I feel like you still have to
like ask it. Um. I am curious. The NYPD has
a kind of manpower, access to manpower, and access to

(08:09):
surveillance equipment that, in my experience out does most nations
I've been in. And I'm interested particularly and everyone's responses
are welcome, but particularly what what Tom and Barry might
have to say about what sort of roadblocks that provides
towards organizing responses to these events and kind of how

(08:29):
activists have had to adapt to that. Uh, this is
Tom here. I mean, I will say it's very clear
that the NYPD constantly monitors any sort of online space whatsoever,
and I think most people know to organize, you know,
in person or on signal with a small group of
their friends, rather than trying to get a larger group

(08:50):
of people to come to a thing publicly on the internet,
because anytime that happens, it's like there's instantly, you know,
that much larger of a police presidency at dozens and
dozens of what's called the s RG, the Strategic Response Group,
which I think probably can maybe speak on that a
little more but they're basically the hats and bats that
come bust up protests. Yeah, definitely agree with that, UM.

(09:12):
And I would also say that because of the share
volume of events that these exact same groups of people
who are now attacking UM drag story hours and clinics,
because we know this group already and they were having
on the daily anti vax rallies which objectively stopped kind
of being a thing to them, consider try to mobilize

(09:33):
account of protests for um SO, I think there is
kind of a large disconnect right now, which, whether by
design or accidentally, where I think a lot of people
feel like um, people who might attend account of protest
that is might feel like, oh, no, it's just those
same idiots up to their nonsense again, you know that
that's we don't worry about that. Tell me if it's
the proud voice coming and we'll mobilized kind of protest.

(09:56):
Um So, I honestly feel that it's sort of a
mental kind of the mental associations that we have with
these familiar faces UM. I mean, despite the fact that
it's been kind of obviously bomb observed that the anti
vax stuff is direct pipeline and radicalization um platform for

(10:16):
these more extremelyst Cristal fascists and transport with actions. Now
people still can't really detach that this is actually serious now,
so um, but yeah, I agree with that. Tom said
that it's a matter of not dropping it. I'm sorry.
I mean that that gets to another kind of advantage
these folks have, which is because of how much additional

(10:39):
state repression y'all are dealing with, the kind of personal
cost of attending these events, encountering the Right is higher,
both in terms of potential risk and just kind of
in terms of the trauma incurred. I know from personal experience.
I mean, I haven't been out in the street in
quite a while, about a year at this point, and
I know a lot of other people who are in
the same place, because it just kind of you know,

(11:01):
you can only take so much as an individual. What
are some ways in which y'all is a community try
to cope with burnouts that you can continue to meet
the pace at which the Right is doing this stuff.
I mean, I think it's really relying on other people
like the same one, two or three or four or
five people can't keep doing everything well. As people start
to get exhausted. I think then it's time to you know,

(11:22):
take a step back, take a week off, take three
weeks off, Like there have to be other people that
are ready to step up, um, you know throughout your community,
but throughout everywhere. Yeah, and definitely I think there's going
to be more of a need to emphasize that this
requires every day and say fascists. I think in New
York City especially, we kind of fell into a trap
where any kind of public falled encounter was very I

(11:45):
mean mil it's into style and boarding, you know, very
clear that it's a cab and their black the water
cans at that and the kinds of people that are
just meeting members that we actually do need to also
show up and saw the fascists that they're not welcoming
here any able. It's either they're not going to response
to something like that multitude of reasons, and uh, what

(12:05):
can you say about sort of the numbers that you're
seeing kind of on both sides on the ground here,
what's like a normal action looking like in terms of that? UM,
I mean, you know, just from reporting and keeping tabs
on different types of protests in New York City, we
have a lot of uh, nonprofits and more established type

(12:27):
groups that organize larger events UM, and those are typically
just marches for visibility and awareness UM. And when it
comes to a counter or some sort of direct action
like Mutual Aid for example, UM, we see much smaller numbers.

(12:47):
But those numbers that I mean that I see at
least is that these are people who've built community and
UM communicate together. As opposed to seeing a flyer showing
up just for that one day. These are people who
consistently are engaging with one another and with that space. So,

(13:09):
like I mentioned mutual Aid, we have UM Washington Square
Park mutually which meets every Friday, and the core group
that UM sets it up and distributes and everything is
relatively small. But the people who have shown up to
support in some capacity in the past two years that

(13:29):
it has been active UM, they all know each other.
And that doesn't mean that you know, they're like necessarily
going to birthday parties together or UM you know, donating
kidneys to one another or something like that. It's not
necessarily like best friend groups, but it's people who have
built a sort of neighborhood in this ideology and in

(13:52):
this space in this time. I would also say like
these particular events have kind of brought in like a
different group of people. It's not like this same cruise
of people that were doing other things, because there's more
kind of liberal people getting involved that are like coming
to these drag String Court, drag Queen Story our defenses
to you know, be joyful and hold up signs and
saying and like welcome people into the library. So that's

(14:16):
also made it more easy to keep these going because
we've kind of got a larger revolving door of people
rather than you know, smaller groups. Yeah, that makes sense
as like, particularly as a way to not burn people out.
You know, I'm curious as to what have you seen

(14:44):
as far, like one of the major tactics anti fascists
always uses identification um and exposing people who are attending
these events rallying with fascist organizations. Have you noticed a
difference on how well this works for the people who
are showing up to protest like drag Queen Story Our
events versus um the people showing up at reproductive healthcare clinics,

(15:08):
at planned parenthoods and such. Because it kind of strikes
me that one of those is more mainstream maybe than
the other. Although perhaps I'm being kind of optimistic in that,
But I'm wondering, does that does it appear to be
more effective against kind of one kind of rally than
it is in another kind, if that makes any sense.
So a lot of the people who are engaging in

(15:29):
the clant harassments are known among their networks, and because
their goal is to present a sort of legitimizing face
for opposing abortion, um, they don't typically show up to
things that are a little bit more volatile. But we
have seen that with so it as it happens that

(15:52):
this the people who are harassing drag Story are for
the most part have been a part of one specific
core group of people that I've been monitoring and reporting
on for the past year. So I know all of
their names, which has pigeonholed them into what they can
and can't do. We had, um, there's there's this far

(16:14):
right propagandist or in Levy. His brother was at ah.
He was trying to harass a drag Story hour at
the Andrew High Scale Library for the Blind, and that
was an event put on for Neurow divergent children and
he was attempting to harass that. He ended up pepper
spray to people, and because he has known, his name

(16:35):
is out there, his face is known, and he is
identifiable across all social media networks, it was very easy
for those people to be able to file complaints against him. Um. Yeah.
And another thing too is that because this one group
does all of these harassments together. They started out doing
anti vax stuff where they were going and harassing a

(16:56):
restaurant called Dame in Um think it's in the village
or yeah, it's in the village. They were harassing that
restaurant for a while, and then they started harassing the
Health Commissioner's house and then Gracie Mansion, which is where
Eric Adams lives. And they were all doing these things together,
so their network was very easy to monitor and trace UM.

(17:16):
And so when they started harassing Drag Story Hour, which
was undeniably they were doing that as a result of
far right propaganda that was being pushed into all of
their social media spaces trying to convince them that Drag
Story Hour is, you know, the Satan incarnate. Um, they

(17:37):
start showing up and trying to harass those and immediately
they're known. They tried to harass UM, they tried to
disrupt AOC at a listening event that she was doing
in Queens. Immediately they were known. It was like I
saw the footage and I was like, that's Robert White,
that's you know, Cliff Lee, that's sort of Ronan Levy.
And it's doing that because they're known, because it's clear

(18:01):
that it's one group. It's showing up and doing this,
trying to trying to follow the lead on what is
the trending outrage on the far right that week. It
limits the number of people who are interested in joining
them because it's they rely on making it seem like
they are just neighbors and constituents who aren't happy with X,

(18:23):
y Z. And it's like, you know, you're a coordinated
group of harassers. We know who you are. So that
mask being off, definitely, I think has helped to reduce
the willingness to grow in those harassments. But I can't
necessarily speak to the future on what would hold or

(18:45):
like what other people have been inspired by them, because
we have seen neo Nazis show up in other states
to protest drag story are the same way that these
this little you know band harassers has been harassing story ours. Yeah, um, yeah, sorry,
just a direct response to that that I definitely agree

(19:05):
um that Yeah, we've been monitoring the movement of uh
the main actors in the anti backs movement for a while,
but I didn't want to say that it is occasionally
other groups, but that they all have the same thing
in common and that they attached to the kind of
hot topic issue that they see happening in other cities
and states. So we did have actually like a very

(19:26):
like certainly Crystal cashis group um uh TMP that was
called who you know had publicly announced a rally to
harass the story or initially flashed onto that UM. But
all of it is kind of following national trends, UM,
because they are initially trying to make see ur t

(19:46):
and schools be the thing that was a multitude of
different groups that are trying and you know, they're looking
for something that sticks, and they're looking for something that
passers by any given passers by walking by. We'll see
their side it if they hear it, um. But their
lack of success though is because of their violence and
UM not especially convincing and very human on sounding antics

(20:10):
to where it is clear that they are not actually
they're protesting what they playing themselves, they're protesting, Um, you know,
they're they're losing sympathy because eventually their signs started being
about Antifa instead of about Electricy protecting the children themselves.
UM So their own messaging kind of probably also at
fault there. But this issue is still always going to

(20:33):
be at risk for attracting different new Nazi groups. UM.
I mean we've seen Orlando and now there's a relition
of Nazi surgeon together to attack Story Hour. We've actually
seen some of that in New York. It was just
coincidence that this one crazy into baxtor Um showing them
to attack story I was the same day that perhaps

(20:54):
other groups were, UM, don't to say too much that
at the moment, because they can talk something. Yeah, I
was just gonna say, I mean about the you know,
neo Nazis and other areas coming in protesting these drag
queen Story Hours. I mean that the first bigger one
we did was at Elmhurst Library. There were not only
somebody who was at a neo Nazi rally in front

(21:16):
of Trump Tower. Once we had a January six insurrectionists,
and I think Holly can probably speak to those two
characters a little more. But then there was some other
There was another Drug Queen Story Hour where someone from
g d L showed up, and I'm sure you're familiar
with g d L, Robert right, Yes, yes, yeah, the
Goyam Defense League. These guys around the hate bus flying

(21:39):
the swastika there. Yeah, I mean you just said swastika.
But in place people are not aware of what Goyam means.
What you need to know is the Goham Defense League
or hardcore Nazis. Yeah, like they are legitimate, straight up
neo Nazis. They fly to the swastika, they go harassed
Jewish neighborhoods, um count in those yeah, capital a Nazi. Yeah,

(22:02):
one of them went and harassed one of the Drag
Queen Story Hours recently. Uh. Then he ran off and
said he was going to get his friends and didn't
show up with anyone else from what then? Speaking of
neo Nazis, you probably know Jovie Valve. Oh yeah, Jovie

(22:23):
and I had a conversation a couple of years ago
with with my good friend Goad. Yeah, your old buddy.
M hmmm. Well he showed up at UM I believe
it was a pediatric health care facility. I don't know
if they do gender affirming care, but he was in
front of it to sign I'm sorry, I said, neither,
did he? Yeah, yeah exactly. It was literally because the

(22:48):
clinic had tried flags in the window. Yeah okay, because
he was holding up a sign that said I'd rather
a Nazi than a pedophile, which is just like a
nonsensible and we all know, just say, you're a fucking Nazi.

(23:09):
Why is that the choice. It's so funny because there's
like pictures of him with the swastic netflace, like doing
the Roman salute, Like, dude, everyone knows you're a Nazi. No,
he's completely unashamed. And that's the weirdest part about him,
because you know, he learned an interesting lesson about wearing
just a you know, a maga hat in a bar
in Brooklyn a few years ago. If anyone knows what

(23:31):
incident I'm talking about, Oh yeah, So I find it
interesting that this actually did not deter him from ever
leaving his house again, you know, nearly losing his entire nose,
um so, and then still deciding to just double down
and actually start carrying the Nazi flags, thinking it will
go better this time. Um and Apparently he just hes

(23:52):
trying to make Nazi ship. He's trying to make his
name again in two like Jovi val Is, he's he's expired,
and he doesn't seem to realize that he's one of them.
You know what I'm gonna do is I'm going to
show up and I'm gonna have nobody with me, and
I'm just gonna be standing in front of a closed

(24:14):
pediatric clinic, like with a sign telling people all they
see from a distance is the word pedophile and the
word Nazi. Like I mean, he did had his one
little body with him in fairness, according to his own
videos that he posted of the encounter, and that buddy
of his, whoever he was, could be heard saying, uh
something like, hey man, you know I can't fight. Actually

(24:38):
I saw the video that got posted on Telegram and
he said, Jovie, I can't find I can't find man,
I can't fight. And you can also hear Jovi yelling
what are you doing? What are you doing as he
gets tossed into like a construction area, And he's such
an embarrassment to like even other Nazis. They're even making
fun of him online. I mean, somebody literally said the

(25:00):
why does jovie always get his ass kicked? This is ridiculous.
He is he is the kind of he is the
kind and generation of Nazi that other Nazis consider cringe
like fucking jovie valve ate him so much. At the
same time, though, it is a little bit alarming because

(25:21):
all of this attention on UH figures such as jovie
Val failing every time and like stepping on rakes metaphorically
every time he goes outside, it does kind of open
a nerving vacuum up to like, oh, what, I can
be a way better Nazi than that. So that is
the part that concerns me. If the constant attention is that, um,
you know, jovie Val did not succeed in organizing a

(25:44):
transphobic Nazi rally outside of a closed pediatric clinic. Okay,
I guess that's a win. But who else sees that
and sees and thinks, oh, we can do so much better,
Because we do have a problem with unidentified Nazis throughout
New York City. There's you know, there's been increases in
all sorts of graffiti all over the subways, um Nazi

(26:05):
literature being put on trains and lefted places it's uh,
you know, so who is seeing this and how what
is the messaging exactly to say that you won't succeed
if you try this either, just because you know Jovi
keeps getting his ship rocked, like we need you to
know he will you will do get your ship. I
mean that's the most important thing, at least in my experience,

(26:27):
and that is mostly as an observer. I'm not an organizer,
but I've I've watched what's happened in the Pacific Northwest.
And the reason why these people don't rally in Portland's
the way they used to is they were faced with
consequences and that required I mean that was there was
not a simple process. It took fucking five years and

(26:48):
a lot of people got broken bones and a number
of them got killed. But like that is that is
the thing people like, These people's lives have to be created.
And one of the things that is a real problem
is that at it's a lot easier to created people
for rallying, or it used to be. Number one, it
used to be easier to create people's lives because they
were willing to rally with Nazis. But also now the

(27:10):
right has succeeded in mainstreaming these two specific things, going
after drag queen story our events and going after reproductive
healthcare clinics and the people using them, to such a
degree that it's gotten a lot harder to ruin people's
lives over this sort of thing. That's that's true. But
at the same time, there is an increase in so

(27:31):
many of them who are just unabashedly that way post
their full names, addresses, photos, they say, you know, identifying
or doc see them is not there's just actually almost hyeah. Yeah,
like most like a large chunk of the country is

(27:52):
totally fine if you're a crazy bigot. Our right is
radicalizing in a sort of gradual case over the course

(28:12):
of many years. UM. And what's happening with UM people
who are countering them is that there is this density
of media and pundits sort of UM looking down their
nose at the decorum of countering them. So, you know,
we we look at Penn State, UM students showed up

(28:36):
in mass, hundreds of them, UM significantly outnumbered the Proud
Boys that did show up, the fascist that did show
up and successfully shut the event down. But there's still
this like armchair pungentry reflex to say, oh, well they
didn't do it right. There's no like that. It's not
the right way to protest. And I think, um, what

(29:00):
Barry is sort of Verry mentioned earlier about everyday anti fascists,
and that's again like with your neighbors and recognizing that
it's not this weird, um inaccessible, like isolated group of
people who solely show up very militant and in black
block and they've got like all this training and all

(29:21):
these like slogans and slang and words, and you know,
it's it's none of that iconography. Because that is also
the conservative media i e. Andy Know constantly refers to
all sorts of things as oh, this is just antifa,
and the purpose of that is to make it seem
like you can't do that too, when in reality he uh,

(29:42):
Andy know that little ship stain. He referred to the
defense of the successful defense at the elm Elmhurst Library.
He claimed that it was Antifa militants when I happen
to know there was a pastor who was there, there
was a nursing mother with her infant and her toddler

(30:04):
who was there. There were librarians present, and there were
people who showed up because they were in the neighborhood
and they heard that far right extremists were going to
try and grass And sure enough, just like Tom mentioned,
there was a J six insurrectionist who tried to get
into the building. I recognize, Yeah, he tried to rush in.

(30:24):
I recognized him. His name is Mitchell Bosh. He's best
known for getting arrested for taking a knee in a
burger king. Get arrested, okay, hoodie, Yeah, this guy tried
to rush in and I don't know how it happened,
but all of a sudden, my arm was hooked into
his arm, twisting his upper body slightly, so he didn't

(30:45):
have a good he didn't have good leverage to try
and burst into the building where I knew that if
he got in, he would refuse to leave until he
was physically removed by police, So then he could then
go online and say that he was fighting for freedom
and collect bullshit don'tations for bullshit legal funds. So getting
all back to this though, is that the media and

(31:05):
like these these pundits and everything they are complicit in
making it harder for people to build community. But people
need to understand it is literally your neighbors. It is
your local librarians, it is your uh friends, it is
your coworkers, it's regular people. The same way people showed
up to protest in they you know, ow should I

(31:25):
bring a sign? Should I bring a bottle of water?
Should I bring my a d what should I bring?
And they just showed up and they mark you can
do the same thing because when you have a significant
number of people, you don't need to worry about being
militant because you outnumber them. And across the board, if
you look at data, the positions and the politics that

(31:47):
these people hold and the things that they're pushing are
in the significant minority of opinion. A majority of people
are totally fine with trans people. They're totally fine, but drugs,
story are like, it's not a thing. But people aren't
showing up to remind them that their opinion is the minority,
that they are outnumbered. Yeah. I was going to say

(32:10):
I agree with that last point. And unfortunately the problem
seems to be about our kind of cultural um inability
to agree on the definition of violence and how even
though people are okay largely with queer and trans people
and protecting trans kids, um and they definitely do not
support Nazis. Um, they still do not think that um

(32:30):
any kind of militant action, including violence against these people
is ever appropriate. Um and just a direct response to
the Penn State thing that goes beyond punditory, even because
Penn State itself released a statement saying that, um, that
it does not condone violence without saying who started the violence?
A k. The Proud Boys, who are amazing people. Um,

(32:52):
they said that, Uh, just because you don't agree with
a speaker and their right to free speech. Okay, UM
hate full tour of Gavin mckinnesson the Proud Boys. UM
that there is no excuse for violence. So they denounced
the content of the message as well as the response
to the message. So we're kind of in this limbo

(33:14):
where people who have the voice to send these messages
are still playing the meat at the dinner table both sides.
Surely we can come to a peaceful resolution and then
blaming the side that actually is militantly opposed to it
and how to overcome that, I don't know, but I
do think the like Tolly also said, every day anti

(33:35):
fascism is a pretty good start. Yeah, I mean with
everyday anti fascism, like the right does this gradritt organizing
and gets people to like tacitly agree with what the
Proud Boys and these fascist groups do. I think there's
plenty of like normal people who would tacitly agree with
what we're doing on this side of things. Um, but
I mean you looked at like I think it was

(33:56):
a somebody campaigning for me. It was Rohn de santis Abert,
you know about this. It was like a literal neo Nazi.
Who got it was a ruby Rubio and it was
the guy was a member of the He was a
Cuban fascist who was a member of the League of
the South. Like there was a journalist online who was

(34:18):
like this is awful. Somebody's like he's literally a Nazi.
And then you look up this journalists like history of
articles she's written and one was like this is why
you should be friends with the Nazi or I'm paraphrasing,
but that's literally like we should be friend Nazis. Like
it's it is ridiculous how so much of the mazed
dream is like, let's come to the table and be polite.
I mean, I really think, and I think a lot

(34:38):
of other people think when it comes to Nazis and
fascists in the far right, you have to make it
as costly as possible, whatever that means to you. You
have to make it as costly as possible for them
so they are deterred from doing this. Organizer. Yeah, I
think that's the most durable conclusion certainly that I have.

(35:00):
It seems like what y'all have experienced too and are
continuing to experience. Is there is there anything else you'll
wanted to get into about about what's been happening in
with with these events before we kind of close out
for the day. The only thing I could think to
add was that that it's not over. And um. People
might think, oh, they stopped coming to Drug Story hours
for whatever reason, but they're going to find the next thing,

(35:22):
the next issue, the next clinic, the next hospital, the
next healthcare provider, the next family was trans children. Uh,
they have dresses, they have names, they know where to go.
They're just looking for when they feel most emboldened to
do so. Um. And it's kind of it's hard to
communicate that because people think, oh, Okay, that was a

(35:45):
successful action. You know, we're done, We're done with them
for now. But I don't know, it's it's it's just
it's really hard to communicate the message that, like, you know,
it's like head on this level, this is the this
is the hardest thing to not just to get across
to people, but to kind of like actively except for yourself,
because it's it's one of the most frustrating realities of

(36:08):
living in our society, and there's no way to get
around it, which is that like not being eaten by
these people is the result of constant vigilance against them,
Like they win if you don't continue showing up and
one day in in in the bright blue yonder, I

(36:29):
do believe that if people continue showing up and continue
making it clear that their cause is hopeless, these people
will I'll drink themselves to death or whatever. But um,
you know that's that's not an immediate term sort of thing. No,
I know, And I mean for just my personal note, like, yes,
that is exactly the mode I'm in now. And I

(36:49):
mean I'm a Jewish anti fascist organizer. It's almost this
kind of history repeating itself ancestral need um to keep
at it. And I'm one of many people, um in
the same kind of mindset towards not an option to
rest and wait until they you know, strike when they
think we're not looking. Yeah, but it's it's you know
obviously yeah. I mean we have like, we have evidence

(37:14):
that they are looking for the next thing. We have
evidence that um. You know, there's this one woman who
got heavily involved with UM, the anti Vacks group New
York Freedom Rally UM, and she would go on you know,
Instagram live stream saying a lot of like transphobic stuff,
but she never transferred that over onto public spaces until

(37:36):
this week, where she reiterated the same points that she
was making in the privacy of her home on that
live stream to her little audience. She's now saying it
on a stage that she's sharing with the candidate for governor,
leez Eldon. Um. She's she's repeating these same things. So
it's showing also that they are finding it. They're finding

(37:59):
themselves more comfortable in saying these uh, bigoted things and
pushing more extreme things and expecting for their followers and
their friends to follow suit. There's people who have shown
up to these harassments of drag story art who have
said directly to me that they don't really agree with

(38:21):
the harassment itself, but that their friends are they're doing
the harassment, and so they're showing up for them, and
that's a very quick road to they are going to
decide to care about this very deeply and go very
hard about it. But what has worked is when people
show up and make it not happy and not good

(38:42):
for them, when their footage is ruined, when their sound
bites are sucked up, when they are blocked from doing
the thing that they're trying to do to generate that
content to feed that like bigoted beast. When people show up,
when those events keep happening, that's a big thing, is that,
like the venues that host these events need to not
cancel them because when those venues cancel, it tells the

(39:05):
biggests that they are winning. And what needs to happen
is the venue is feeling brave to put out calls
for community support the same way that had been in Eugene.
Because when that then you put out that ask, they
got hundreds of people and they outnumbered the biggests ten
to one. I was just gonna say, I was I'm
very heartened by like how supportive the UH people in

(39:30):
the neighborhoods and libraries have been whether they're allowed to
officially support anything or not, it's been you know, nice
to know that people are happy we're there. And also
I would really love to see a meme of Jovie
Val stepping on a rake. You have that image in
my head? Yeah, Um, was there anything else we wanted

(39:50):
to get to? Uh? Self defense is community offense defense
and if people are interested. Um. People in New York
created something called I fact Fund where you donate funds
and then people who want to receive individual first aid

(40:12):
kits um can request one and receive one for free. Um.
And it was created in honor of a anti fascist
badass named torch Um who is always present a UM.
But yeah, if if people wanted to check that out,
it's uh. The Twitter account is just at I fact Fund,

(40:34):
I f a k fund um if they want to donate,
I think it's uh cash app is I fact Fund.
I think you know someone else could look it up
to check dollar sign Fund. Oh I'm sorry, Dollar Signed
I fact Fund, Thank you whatever. Yeah, um, And you know,

(40:57):
it's it's just a matter of like knowing that we
keep us safe in every sense of the word. Yeah,
And I think that's a that's a perfect note to
end on. Thank you all for your time, Thank you
for continuing to be out there in the streets. Um

(41:17):
and everybody else, get out there and make a fascist
stay worse. It could Happen here as a production of
cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media,
visit our website cool zone media dot com, or check
us out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

(41:39):
or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources
for It could Happen Here, updated monthly at cool zone
media dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.