February 16, 2023 • 59 mins
A Week of Action is planned for March 4th as the city of Atlanta prepares to receive land disturbance permits. We discuss how the movement might evolve going forward.
Music by the Narcissist Cookbook and Propaganda.
https://www.stopcopcitysolidarity.org/
https://defendtheatlantaforest.org/
https://www.copcitysyllab.us/
https://www.srycampaign.org/
https://scenes.noblogs.org/
https://occupywallst.nyc/news/2023/2/11/defend-the-atlanta-forest-bring-tent-march-11-2023-stopcopcity4
https://itsgoingdown.org/three-theories-of-victory/
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
In the early morning of January thirty, first, news started
to proliferate that the City of Atlanta, the Atlanta Police Foundation,
and Decab County reached a quote unquote compromise regarding the
future of Copp City. Word spread that city officials in
Atlanta were about to announce a major scaling back of
the cop City project, that the project's size would be
(00:45):
dramatically reduced and focus more on fire department and first
respond to resources, as opposed to the original plans for
the militarized police campus. Many were skeptical about this news
and saw this simply as an empty promise masquerading as
a compromise in a savvy pr move but even some
(01:08):
who were pessimistic at least saw this as a sign
that the movement is having a substantial impact. Activists rallied
outside city Hall, holding stop coop City signs and Defend
the Forest banners. Some reporters were denied entry into the
press conference, and protesters stood outside Mayor Andre Dickens's office
(01:29):
and chanted. At the press conference that afternoon, the Mayor
of Atlanta and representatives of Decap County announced an agreement
to allow the previously announced eighty five acre Copsity project
to proceed as planned, with land disturbance permits to be issued.
(01:54):
The rest of the land parcel of forest leased to
the Police Foundation will be allegedly set for preservation, a
claim that was already previously promised by officials involved with
the project. Decab County and the City of Atlanta released
a memorandum of understanding for the building of the site,
containing a quote statement of principles, commitments, and intentions unquote.
(02:20):
Mayor Dickens framed the facility as an answer to demands
for police training reform during twenty twenty's George Floyd Uprising, saying, quote,
this training needs space, and that's exactly what this training
center is going to offer unquote. The mayor also responded
to environmental concerns by claiming the area of forest slated
(02:40):
for destruction contains only quote invasive species soft woods and
weeds unquote. Officials said the so called compromise agreement would
contain provisions for preserving parts of the South River Forest.
When asked how the environment would be protected, Mayor Dickens
mentioned that it's a three hundred and eighty five acre
(03:01):
set of land. Copcity is eighty five acres. The rest
is green space, and that quote the environment will be
protected in that way unquote, with no indication given on
how it would be protected or by whom. Among the
few environmental promises are quote replacing any removed or impacted
(03:22):
specimen trees with one hundred new hardwood plantings on the
site or elsewhere, as well as one specimen tree for
any invasive species tree that was removed unquote. It's unknown
if they have even counted how many trees have been
felled so far. Activists called this a ploita hastily push
(03:44):
through a sequence of land disturbance permits. The most up
to date site plans has the Public Safety Training Center
spread out over a parcel of one hundred and seventy
one acres, with about eighty seven of those acres slated
for disturbance. There is nothing in the lease agreement that
restricts the Police Foundation from building outside of those one
(04:06):
hundred and seventy one acres, though they promise it will
be protected green space. This compromise pr stunt is not
even a new tactic. In August of twenty twenty one,
after initial protests against the project delayed, the city Council vote.
The Atlanta Police Foundation claimed a similar quote unquote compromise.
Instead of clearing the three hundred and eighty so acres
(04:29):
that they are leased by the City of Atlanta, they
would reduce the footprint of buildings and disturbed surfaces to
only ninety acres, while more of the land would be
cleared and turned into turf fields, shooting ranges, and horse
stables labeled quote unquote green space. And wouldn't you know
that sounds almost exactly identical to this new plan for compromise.
(04:52):
Unfailed at the end of last month. Upon such rhetoric
and empty promises, The movement didn't fall, but continued to
demand and fight for the full cancelation of the project,
whether in the Wolani Forest or elsewhere. After the January
thirty first press conference, organizers in Atlanta called for a
(05:13):
week of solidarity actions starting February nineteenth through the twenty
sixth quote calling on all people wherever you are to
take action in solidarity with the Movement to Stop Copcity. Protest,
sit in, call and email the contractors building Copcity. Every
action has an impact unquote. At stopcopcitysolidarity dot org, there
(05:37):
are guides for various actions people can take from calling
copcity contractors or investors, to posting flyers around town or
planning direct action using the interactive target map. If you
do go on any movement related website, it's strongly recommended
to use a VPN and a tour compatible browser like Brave.
(05:59):
The national spot light on the movement has certainly increased
a great deal in the past month, both with an
influx of scrutiny and support from across the country and
even the world.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
The press collective has always had kind of a hybrid
role both of recording on the movement and researching the movement,
researching the prison farm, but a lot of media outlets
don't quite understand the autonomous nature of the struggle, so
we have kind of found ourselves in a role of
(06:31):
kind of liaisoning between media and the rest of the movement.
But thankfully it's not just us doing it, because boys
everyone interested. All of a sudden. No one was talking
about the movement at the beginning, so we were like,
all right, we'll talk about it ourselves. We've been able
to use our platform to publicize a lot of solidarity events,
(06:55):
not just share memorials and what people want to know
about tort but you know, publicize these things across the
nation and across the world.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Statements in solidarity have come in from radicals in Italy, Germany, France,
and Rajava. After the killing of Tortigita, vigils happened in
cities all across the United States. A wave of targeted
vandalism and direct action against cop city investors and contractors
happened across the country in response to Towart's death in Atlanta.
(07:30):
There's a concerted effort to not seed perception of the
movement to the state. People have an intentional, collaborative way
to affect how the movement is seen externally. This media
strategy is simply one prong of the fight, along with
the encampments, sabotage, vandalism, pressure campaigns, and canvassing.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
I think it's really representative of the type of people
that are dedicated to the struggle in general, the way
that anyone and everyone has come together to handle the
influx of media requests to make smart decisions about it,
to make sure that decisions are made with the consent
of those involved, be it sharing the stories of people
(08:13):
who are arrested that day, sharing the stories of twarts,
family and towarts partners and making sure to respect their
boundaries in space.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Despite the diverse nature of requests, there always seems to
be somebody in the movement who is able to speak
on whatever aspect of the struggle is needed.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
You need someone who's cut a master's in environmental engineering.
There's someone in the movement that can talk to you
for forty five minutes about the good environmental reasons to
stop cop City. You need someone to talk for three
hours about the history of the place. There's someone for
that too. You need someone to talk about how the
project is a pretty good example of why the Black
(08:56):
Mecca is a myth. The movement has people who can
speak to that too. There's been a tremendous amount of
attention paid to the movement all of a sudden, and again,
the way folks have just stepped up and come together
to handle it, I think speaks to the communal nature
of the movement. It is dedicated to building. It's not
(09:17):
just about saving the forest, it's about saving the forest
for the community.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
When I spoke with Karen, the neighborhood mom who started
canvassing and organizing in her community, she mentioned how even
her older family who are longtime Georgia residents, haven't totally
bought the state's talking points.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
I can say, you know, my mom and my mother
in law and like, you know, family, they know that
I care about this, and you know they're boomers. But
I've been surprised how there's a lot of skepticism in
the police narrative, which I found really interesting.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
You know, normally when something like this happens, it's just
one hundred percent police narrative. Mayor Dickens, the dey toort died,
put out a pretty for mistweet that just expressed their
condolences to the family of the trooper that was injured,
and not one single word about the person that died.
And in most fatal incidents with police, you at least
(10:16):
get some kind of boilerplate language about, oh, we're sorry
that someone died, and a lot of the initial statements
from government and larger organizations just just said nothing. But
the media, even local news, in pretty much every single report,
(10:36):
there's at least a line or two, if not a
pretty decent chunk of you know, whatever five PM news
story it is that say protesters have questions, people have
questions about towards death and given the pretty universally negative
way that Atlanta media in particular has covered the defendive
(10:57):
Forest movement, the fact that even those outlets have to
respond to the overwhelming amount of folks speaking out about
how what happened doesn't make sense, about what kind of
person tour it was, about how none of this had
to happen in the first place. I'd love to say
(11:18):
that someone who pays attention to the meat how the
media covers this, that I could have predicted that would happen.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Three members of Congress Rashida Thalib, Corey Bush, and Senator
Ed Marky have joined in calling for an independent investigation
into Tortighita's death.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Like I saw a screenshot from NBC News this morning,
NBC News, and like the Chiron was protesters still have
questions about towards death, Like that's from this morning.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Even after the riot quote unquote, after the artison and
property destruction, and almost like a week after the incident.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Yeah, Like I mean it was It's hard to remember now,
but I think it was like almost a month after
George Floyd died before folks really yeah, before it really
got national attention with when Raichard was killed here in Atlanta.
It was a little more immediate because of because of
a lot of things.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
During the rally at Underground Atlanta, while people were speaking
in front of the dozen or so news cameras, someone
talked about how there are still people in town that
are just learning about Cop City and the fight to
prevent it from being built.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
They of work.
Speaker 5 (12:27):
I had four different conversations about the Lalaani Forest in
regards to everything that's going on, with four different people
who were unaware of what was happening. As big as
this seems right now, a lot of people are still unaware.
And as long as we keep being loud, as long
as we make sure that cop City will never be
fucking built, we just got to keep talking about it.
(12:52):
May and Dickens, Ryan millsap, you have blood on your hands. Uh,
fuck cop City.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
I think we're about to really see how the national
media is going to pick up on the domestic terrorism
and frankly, the fact that they're talking to us at all,
or the fact that they're talking to the movement at all,
I think speaks to the strength of the movement and
the simple truth of it, which is that tort didn't
have to die and This is a very wide arranging
(13:22):
movement with a lot of people who have some very
good reasons for being opposed to the project, and I
think those reasons are so compelling that I don't want
to say it's easy to see past the noise, but
it's not that hard.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
I remember one conversation with Tort where I was like,
this might just be like an egotistical or something, but
I really think this is like a lot bigger than you,
you know, just a little neighborhood struggle. And yeah, we
talked about We were like, yeah, no, people don't know
it yet, but it's the intersection of so many things,
(13:58):
and you know, if more people realize is that it
would be huge. And it's you know, really heartbreaking that
I think they were right, you know, they didn't get
to see it.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
One of the main talking points the state has been
trying to push through to the media is condemning copcity
protesters and force defenders as outside agitators. There's a Good
Crime Thing zine titled The Making of Outside Agitators that
focuses on the use of the term as related to
the twenty fourteen Ferguson Uprising that gave birth to the
(14:53):
modern Black Lives Matter movement. For this next section, i'll
paraphrase a little bit from that zine. The state and
media's invocation of the term in Atlanta has been accelerating
rapidly since the raids last December, using it alongside notions
of terrorism to justify the police's violent escalation of protest suppression.
(15:16):
For example, this clip from the Copcity Community Stakeholders Advisory
Committee meeting held days after the December raid that introduced
the domestic terrorism charges. Speaking is the assistant chief for
the Atlanta Police Department.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
And so one of the things we charged them with,
to include criminal trespass, was domestic terrorism charge that we
put on them. So going forward, that is one of
the charges we will be using because that's exactly what
they are. None of those people live here. They do
not have a vest interest in this property, and we
show that time and time again. Was an individual from
(15:52):
Los Angeles, California concerned about a training facility being built
in the state of Georgia. And that is why we
consider domestic terrors.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
There's a darkly prophetic sentence from that Crime thinkazine I
mentioned quote when we hear them say outside agitators, we
know the authorities are getting ready to spill blood.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
A pretty consistent talking point by the Police Foundation police
the state in general has been that a lot of
the people they've arrested for incidents related to defend the
forest have had out of state licenses, out of state addresses,
(16:34):
and what they describe as no connection to Georgia. They
have been sent here to stir up trouble. Right, they
aren't from here, They're just they're just here to because
they don't like the cops, right, they have they have
no stake in this struggle. So there's some pretty obvious
(16:56):
problems with that, And there's some pretty lengthy historic races
tied to the term outside agitators that makes it, you know,
especially Hanus to use. In the South, the term outside
agitators was used to describe the Freedom Writers, so it's
got a got a little bit of history there.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Governor Brian Kemp declaring a state of emergency so that
the National Guard can be on standby to occupy Atlanta
sure seems like outside agitation. But even the Atlanta Police
Department's use of the term carries with it a great
deal of hypocrisy.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
APD has since twenty twenty really made a big deal
out of stepping up its recruitment efforts, and if you
go back and look at those presentations to the media
to city council, they consistently talk about, oh, we went
to New York for three days, we went to Miami
for a week. I believe it was would have been September,
(17:53):
just after Darren Sheerbaum was officially installed as Chief of Police.
He went before the City Council. I talked about how
he was so proud to have personally recruited someone from
Detroit per basically a part of their loan application, because
they're applying for a loan to finance part of cop city.
(18:15):
By their own numbers, forty three percent of recruits that
will be trained at this facility will come from out
of state. They are forty three percent from outside the
state of Georgia. Again in APDs on statements about the facility,
this facility is built to bring in people from out
of state, from out of the country. Even because Atlanta
(18:38):
participates in the Georgia International Law Enforcement Exchange, which is
basically an exchange program with the idea with the Israeli military,
where we go there, they come here, We teach each.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Other news articles claiming that a majority of those arrested
are residents from other states might sound like convince the
evidence to middle class readers, But anyone who has been
poor and precarious knows that the permanent address you give
when you're arrested may not be the same as the
place you actually live. You might give a different address
(19:11):
because you aren't sure your current housing will last, because
your landlord doesn't know your place has more people in
it than are named on the lease, or simply because
you don't want local vigilantes to know where you live. Instead,
you might give a more reliable, long term address, perhaps
from another state.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
I mean on a human level, like how many times
have you moved somewhere and not changed your address? How
many times have.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
You going to the DMV sucks?
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Yes, going to the DMV sucks.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
So a lot of people don't have the privilege to
be able to go to the DMV or don't have
a permanent home address. A lot of people are dealing
with housing instability like this. There's so many aspects of
this that makes it pretty egregious, and not.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Only of course, is this a struggle that deeply compelling
Regardless of where you call home. It just doesn't match
up to like the facts of life, Like it's a
little bit bizarre. Their insistence that the local populace couldn't
possibly be that opposed to it when grab any one
(20:16):
person in the movement who's from Georgia and they know
ten people who's opposed to it, that person who's ten people.
And also you have statistics like during the what's seventeen
hours of public comment, seventy percent of people who called
in were opposed to it. Basically the only people who
(20:39):
weren't were people who self identified as police officers, firefighters,
and those who lived in Buckhead. And it's not that simple,
but it's pretty clear that maybe you'd be okay with
building the facility somewhere else. Maybe you're an abolitionist, maybe this,
that and the other. But Atlanta doesn't want this. Atlanta
(20:59):
doesn't want this here.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Let's imagine that some of these arrestees who gave out
of town addresses are in Atlanta for the very first time.
Would that make them outside agitators? Maybe if the issue
was specific to Atlanta alone and they had no stake
in the cause, copp City would be a place that
police agencies from all around the country and world come
(21:23):
to to train and practice urban militarism. Climate collapse and
the destruction of forests is similarly a worldwide issue and
one of apocalyptic magnitude.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
It's a false narrative in one sense, because climate change
affects everybody. Cutting down a forest would make climate change worse.
Like that's a very very very obvious talking point. If
if environment of protecting the environment is important to you,
it is obvious that this is a very key struggle
(21:57):
right now, especially in the context of Atlanta and growing
and also gentrifying city, and this being in a largely
black and brown, middle to low income neighborhood, and this
being such a vast green space in those communities that
(22:19):
don't have the manicured Piedmont Park in their backyards.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
When people are suffering the same forms of oppression everywhere,
it makes sense for us to come into each other's assistance.
This is not outside agitation, This is solidarity. Solidarity has
always been the most important tool of the oppressed. This
is why authorities go to such lengths to demonize anybody
(22:43):
who has the courage to take risks to support others.
Crickets spoke at length about the outside agitator narrative that
the state has been employing.
Speaker 6 (22:53):
I think one thing that comes to mind is something
that I've heard a lot is that the people in
this movement are not from here. Quote, that they're outside agitators,
that they're not from this community, They're not you know.
And it seems to me very clear to be an
attempt to sort of discredit what is a very clear
majority of the community that does not want this forest destroyed,
does not want copp City built, you know, seventy percent.
(23:17):
And that argument infuriates me because I mean, first of all,
the US military is the biggest like outside agitator in
the world, and I just I find that irony sort
of unbearable. And then I think there's this question. We
can get into questions of what does it mean to
be from somewhere? And what I think is a more
helpful question is how are you somewhere? How are you
(23:37):
in relation to a place? And I think Tort was
someone who was always trying to be in the right
relation with the land and in right relation with their neighbors,
in right relation with the communities here. One story that
I keep revisiting of them is when we were checking
in and people were asking them, you know what, what
do folks in the forest need? What can we get them?
Do they need food? You know what do they need?
(24:00):
And tour it was like, oh no, actually, you know,
we have everything we need. But it would be great
if people could start, we could make sure they're giving
food to the poor folks in their own communities, Like
make sure you're giving the food to the people in
your neighborhoods. Are you checking in with the unhoused communities
in your neighborhood like they were just I think constantly
seeking to be in right relation. And I think regardless
of where all of us are from, if we can
(24:21):
conclaim to be from somewhere, I mean, arguably, if we're
not Muscogee Creek, none of us is from here. But
I think it's a more helpful direction to think about
what are we doing once we're here? How are we
trying to be here? And yeah, I mean that that
specific argument. Really it really frustrates me because I think
it really obfuscates how much this is a local movement.
(24:43):
And also having solidarity from across state lines, from across
national lines, speaks to the intersection of our the intersections
of our oppressions the intersections of our movements. It doesn't
speak to the fact that this is co opted, or
it doesn't indicate anything other that none of us is free,
into all us are free.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
The ultimate goal of the police is not so much
to brutalize and pacify specific individuals as it is to
extract rebelliousness itself from the social fabric. They seek to
externalize agitation, so anyone who stands up for themselves will
be seen as an outsider, as deviant and anti social.
(25:24):
Noah mentioned how the outside agitator narrative is rooted in
stripping people of their own autonomy.
Speaker 7 (25:32):
It's completely denying you, like the freedom of movement and
the freedom to decide that you would like to go
and support other issues, as if with the empathy of them,
to show solidarity with other people, as well as like
just deciding that if you are living here a bit
from out of town, that somehow makes you a flight rescler,
(25:54):
That makes you in some way it's more more dangerous
than if you are, I guess, an official resident. In
some it's all complete bullshit.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
I mean, and even some of the people who are
like out of town, they're like not even two hours
away from where from where the prosecutors are claiming where
they're from the outside. Agitator's narrative only works if we
have this sense of otherness that we talked about in
the last episode, this disconnect and separation from neighboring struggles,
(26:26):
as if lines on a map change the morality of actions.
Keeping people in pre trial jail for an unknown amount
of time could could be literally over a year because
they are deemed non local, so the judge thought they
were a quote unquote flight risk beyond the charters themselves,
(26:46):
which are innately kind of absurd, and the brutality is
the point. The she audacity of keeping people with no
evidence in cages for years for going to a protest
is just it's not surprising, but it still is incredibly upsetting, Like.
Speaker 6 (27:04):
It's like it's no and it would be completely decried
if it were happening in any other country, right and
a massive human rights violation. If it's happening in China
because of the US China relations, like absolutely not there
there'd be an entire like I don't know, national outcry.
But because it's people who are resisting this government in
this state, then yeah, it doesn't get the same kind
(27:25):
of empathy, it doesn't get the same outcry.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
When I talked with Karen, she spoke about how thankful
she is that there are people from across the country,
people like Torte who care about the South River Forest
enough to travel to Atlanta to defend it.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
In terms of the narrative of like outside agitators, you know,
I'm I'm really grateful that people are coming to like
protect the forest in my backyard, Like I am. I
have like so much gratitude. It is so it is
so meaningful. Yeah, and I I think I think after
(28:02):
the first raid, I told toward that and I'm glad
I did. But yeah, it really is like just so
much gratitude.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
The framing of outside agitators is meant to keep people
away and stifle solidarity, just like the domestic terrorism charges
are meant to The state is trying out every tactic
to scare people away from participating in the movement. So
it feels like just the past month there's been such
an intense increase in the level of state repression and
(28:34):
state violence. How do you see things evolving in the
next few weeks and months and or like even days.
At this point, like just with how both like physical
violence is definitely increasing with the raids and now like
you know, killing somebody, and then the types of like
(28:54):
you know, judicial abuse of power, giving people seven hundred
thousand dollars bail being many others just in jail and
perpetuity for who knows how long.
Speaker 6 (29:06):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's clear looking at this
movement that the state, the cops police have always been
the first to escalate have and have now murdered someone,
have now assassinated someone, and are the ones who are
constantly sort of making putting other people's lives in danger.
They're really the people who are making folks unsafe and
(29:26):
tor it was a street medic tor. It was someone
who went through street medic training with someone who is
passionate about protecting their community. And in street medic training,
one of the things that it's taught there's a whole
section on police weapons and state weapons, and sure we
cover tear gas, we cover on bullets, we cover all
anything that you can sort of commonly see protests or
in raids, and one of the biggest weapons that we
(29:48):
always cover as fear. And that is really what I
see happening with this escalation is that, yes, there's a
sort of increase of literal weapons, of arms, of just
everything we've heard about in the forest. But I think
when you take that in combination with the ludicrous charges,
what they're really trying to weaponize is our own fear,
(30:09):
as our own emotions, making us think that it's too
dangerous to be in the forest, that it's not worth it,
that it's too risky, making us think that the forest
itself is somehow an unsafe place, making us think that
the people who protected are unsafe. And I think that's
the sort of trend that I'm seeing. I think in
terms of what's coming next, I think they're going to
(30:29):
keep leaning into the weapon of fear. I think it's
I think it's you know, not haha funny that they
accuse protesters and the people who've been charged with domestic
terrorism of intimidation, when clearly they're using those charges to
intimidate people, both the people who are charged with it
and anyone who might consider themselves an ally or a
friend of the forest and a friend of the forest defenders.
(30:52):
So what I see moving forward in terms of carrying
towards legacy, forward in terms of carrying this movement forward
is not buying into that bullshit very much, being fear
walking and not trying to say people shouldn't be scared
or not have those feelings. But one of the memories
of tort that I have is them very clearly refusing intimidation.
Whether it was cops, whether it was you know whoever
(31:14):
the sort of representative of the state was, they never
gave into that, And I think that's what I'm trying
to carry forward. A lot of us are trying to
carry forward.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Noah spoke similarly about fear being a powerful weapon of
the state and a very insidious one because it doesn't
punish people for actions they may or may not have done,
but instead works to prevent people from taking action in
the first place.
Speaker 8 (31:39):
Fear. Fear is the number one tool that the state
brings to bear.
Speaker 9 (31:44):
All of their toys and their guns.
Speaker 7 (31:47):
And shit do not have the reach and do not
have the capacity to stop actual liberation. Fear making people
afraid of the idea of revolting, of the idea of
dissonance is extremely powerful, and it's.
Speaker 8 (32:08):
Something that we all have to combat in our own ways.
Speaker 9 (32:10):
It's something we all have to.
Speaker 8 (32:11):
Resist in our own ways. Because like, obviously the.
Speaker 7 (32:15):
State is capable of murdering and of putting people in
prison for a very long time, and that is scary,
and that is a valid thing to be afraid of.
But we stand to lose so much if we do
not combat that fear to face off with them. That
it's just something that I've found I have to manage.
(32:36):
It's something that because we I'm so much more afraid
of what we all lose if we don't stop them
here than I am of myself being harmed or going
to prison. We all stand to lose in terms of
millions of people stand to lose.
Speaker 8 (32:52):
Everything if we allow climate back.
Speaker 7 (32:55):
Lips to bear, if we allow the powers that be
to get signific can be more effective at combating dissidence
in the streets from not just for in the United States,
but for cop City. This is an international struggle. I mean,
this is the same police department that durs Cross training
with the idea of if you think the I would
(33:17):
becoming this facility to train better, how to you know, kill.
Speaker 8 (33:21):
Palestanan dissidence.
Speaker 7 (33:24):
With yourself Like this will mean something to every foreign military,
to every foreign police first, and every police force in.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
The US there's a quote from Torti Ghita talking about
how to deal with fear. What I'm about to read
also demonstrates, as their partner said that Tort was very
aware of the risks inherent to resisting the state, especially
as a non white forest defender, But with an understanding
of that risk and the fear associated with said risk,
(33:54):
they chose it was worth it to keep on fighting. Quote,
Am I scared of the state? Pretty silly not to be.
I'm a brown person. I might be killed by the
police for existing in certain spaces. Fear is the mind killer.
That's a quote I think about often.
Speaker 8 (34:14):
I must not fear, and fear.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
Is the mind killer.
Speaker 7 (34:17):
Now here's a little death that brings total obligation.
Speaker 8 (34:22):
I'm permitting too passable for.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Me and for me to continue what Tort said quote
I am scared, but you can't let the fear stop
you from doing things, from living, from existing, from resisting
unquote m. In the early nineteen sixties, Atlanta was dubbed
(35:05):
the City too Busy to hate. The phrase can be
traced back to a Civil Rights era marketing slogan attributed
to Mayor Ivan Allen, who spent millions of dollars in
the nineteen sixties to promote Atlanta as a business oriented city,
a city moving forward from its racial past and into
a hopeful new future. This was the beginning of the
(35:28):
Atlanta Way. Still today, you can find the city too
busy to hate everywhere on murals, posters, and t shirts.
It's become part of Atlanta's identity, or at least Atlanta
tries to tell itself that within the slogan lies this
admission of the belief that racism and oppression can be
(35:50):
beaten by hyper capitalism, meaning the first and foremost goal
of the city is economic progress. Equality and racial justice
us must take a back seat because the city is
just too busy. There's few better examples of this inaction
than the black neighborhoods that were demolished to build infrastructure
(36:12):
for the nineteen ninety six Olympics and later the Mercedes
Benz Stadium. Since then, the Beltline's original vision of public transit,
green space, and affordable housing has been abandoned in favor
of developing luxury apartments and i gentrified retail joints. As
Fuco's Boomerang brings, the internal colonization of gentrification and increasing
(36:34):
police militarization to Atlanta. It only makes sense that Copp
City and the battle to stop it is happening here.
Speaker 6 (36:41):
Tort died two days right after Martin Luther King Junior
Memorial Day. We're in Atlanta. There's this whole section of
the Delta Airport in Atlanta dedicated to John Lewis. You
can hear his voice on a loop saying good trouble.
And yet as soon as the festivities are over, as
soon as the fund raising is over, when someone is
shot resisting the state and a peaceful, nonviolent direct action,
they're labeled a terrorist. I don't understand how someone can
(37:04):
possibly reconcile those two things. They seem to me to
be grotesque. I mean, it's it's disgusting, but I don't
see that reflected in any mainstream narrative.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Noah talked with me about how he first got involved
in the stop Coop City movement.
Speaker 7 (37:19):
Yeah, so my and then my introduction to cops. They
started to where most people's and at landed. When it
got first fleet that this was a thing that the
city was planning.
Speaker 9 (37:30):
I remember having just a very.
Speaker 7 (37:31):
Like, oh my god, what the fuck like reaction to
realizing like they want to destroy the largest urban canopy
in the country, to build a big fake city for
them to practice doing urban combat, and that's like parody dystopian,
And very quickly people.
Speaker 9 (37:50):
Were organizing in.
Speaker 8 (37:52):
Various different ways to start them to make their voices.
Speaker 9 (37:56):
Heard that this was not something that I learned on
was okay with. This is not something we were.
Speaker 7 (38:00):
Okay with having our communities is not something that anybody wanted.
Speaker 8 (38:04):
That took a lot of different friends.
Speaker 7 (38:05):
For me. I mean that went from working, whether that
be on the streets, to just doing food destroyers and
medical trainings to you know, scampering around the woods with
my friends. Like that took many different forms forms of
resistance there, and over time that has in our change
(38:28):
and evolve. But I still think of something that I
work in a lot of different friends to be as
effective as a person as possible when it comes to resistingness.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
The sheer resiliency we've seen in Atlanta post twenty twenty
has been incredibly impressive and inspiring. After twenty twenty, the
radical communities in a lot of cities dealt with pretty
extreme burnout to due to such a grueling summer, and
ever since then, people seem to be recovering and anticipating
the next cycle of mass uprising. As news spread of
(39:03):
Memphis police's brutal beating of Tyree Nichols, which resulted in
his death, there was renewed discussion if it was gonna
spark the quote unquote next twenty twenty. But Atlanta is
one of the few cities where things really haven't halted
since twenty twenty defend the Forest stuff. It's been going
(39:24):
pretty hard ever since like twenty twenty one, and it's
been a very like impressive amount of resiliency. Can you
can you kind of talk on that aspect of how
people have been able to do that?
Speaker 7 (39:37):
Yeah, I think it comes down to having a really
good support network of people, people who are willing to
be support activists, who are support.
Speaker 9 (39:51):
Actors monically and financially like, who are able.
Speaker 8 (39:54):
To make this possible. And it also comes down to that.
Speaker 7 (39:57):
The Defend the Forest movement is so it is so
important to anybody. It should be so important to anybody
who looked at twenty twenty as a strike back against
police violence. What copsidy means for all of us is
a world in which it is much harder to resist police,
especially in the cities, and for a lot of activists
(40:19):
who came out of twenty twenty to find the forest
became an extension of that fight. It became its own
and it's on fight to put out the forest and
an extension of the battle against the violence of the
state and against.
Speaker 9 (40:30):
The ability of the police to fur the militaries.
Speaker 8 (40:32):
And I think that kept a lot of a lot
of people going. But not certainly happens.
Speaker 7 (40:38):
I mean, it can be really exhaustion work, it can
be really defeating at times, and it's been really.
Speaker 9 (40:44):
Important I think for people everywhere and here to have you.
Speaker 7 (40:49):
Know, friends and things that they can do to decompress
and take time off when needed, to stay, to keep
the ability to keep doing this and to burn up completely,
and to be able to keep going against what feels
like our ads at times.
Speaker 9 (41:07):
Also, just activists here are pretty fucking resilient.
Speaker 7 (41:11):
Just I'm continually so impressed by the people I see
just continuing to guard day after day and working behind
the scenes, doing everything possible to make sure that we
can keep doing the solidary different has a couple of things.
I'm getting money on people's commissaries, and the past has
done like later writing campaigns for political personers across the country,
(41:33):
which is certainly like a thing that you know, we're
looking at a present of people being had a very
long term that's absolutely going to be something in the
coming weeks that I help people spending today, Like obviously
these people who are inclustrated are support in every way
we can possibly possibly do that.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
If the people currently incarcerated are granted bond during the
appeal process and it's set to the same amount as
the last two individuals, that would be three hundred and
fifty five thousand dollars per person for at least five
more people that included with.
Speaker 7 (42:07):
Like the previous bond amunds that were set for previous words.
I mean, we're approaching three million dollars and potential bonds,
which is just designed to join people as much as
possible and make the idea of protest as same impossible.
And again this is just another fairtactic. This is how
they perpetuate powers through fear and making it same as
(42:30):
impossible to making it seem like if you were to
get arrested, that you would never get out because that's terrifying. Yeah,
that's the number one to what that they bring the bear.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
There have been a few semi distinct stages in the
struggle against copp City. In summer of twenty twenty one,
the initial stage was trying to get the city council
to vote no on the project. There was a lot
of canvassing, calling representatives, involvement from large above ground organization
like the DSA and Sunrise, you know, people trying to
(43:03):
quote unquote campaign the right way to get the project
shut down before it even started. And then even despite
seventy percent of the local people who called in not
wanting this, the city council voted for it anyway. And
then starting two months after the vote, and for over
a year now, we've had this forest occupation or encampment stage.
(43:29):
People going into the woods and having their continuous physical
presence there itself be a deterrent for construction. Concurrently, there
have been random acts of sabotage with construction equipment spontaneously
bursting into flames, alongside pressure campaigns targeting subcontractors and cop
City investors. With the past few police raids having been
(43:52):
increasingly violent and the last one resulting in the death
of a force defender, I asked the people I spoke
with if they saw any forthcoming new stage of the movement,
considering the cops are trying really hard to make it
very dangerous to camp in the woods right now, what's
your sense from on the ground, how stuff might you
(44:12):
know with these increasing charges, increasing withs of alphones and increasing.
Speaker 8 (44:17):
Use of force.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
What's some kind of ways that you feel stuff might
start changing on the ground, Like do you think the
encampment style will continue or will it kind of evolve
in a new kind of unexpected direction.
Speaker 10 (44:31):
It remains to be seen how the approach to living
in the woods will adapt to these changes. The decap
County Police Department has claimed that they're going to increase
their surveillance and patrol of the neighborhood that the Woods
is in. It remains to be seen what that will
mean for the encampment and how active they're going to
(44:52):
be in you know, repressing people in a day to
day sort of thing. And also I think one change
reconsidering what on the ground means and what the bounds
of the forest are. There's more woods that black Hall
plans to develop on nearby, so reconsidering what on the
ground is, you know, Brassfield and gory construction sites could
(45:16):
be considered an on the ground site, you know, for actions,
and you know, I think there's a lot of room
to grow in that direction as well.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
Like do you see this moment as like a substantial
turning point. I think so.
Speaker 9 (45:30):
I mean, I don't think it could be a turning point.
Speaker 8 (45:33):
I think that every every.
Speaker 7 (45:35):
Escalation of violence that has been perpetrated by law enforcement,
there's never been a moment in which the people combining
law enforcement have been the ones to escalate the violence.
And I think that this marks.
Speaker 8 (45:48):
A willingness of the government here and this is the
government that this is the hill that.
Speaker 9 (45:53):
They're willing to die on. This is where they're going
to stand their ground, and where they are proving to
wish that.
Speaker 7 (46:00):
They are committed and so committed to the idea of
building top city that they are willing to kill people.
Speaker 8 (46:06):
And I think that that.
Speaker 7 (46:07):
Is a turning point in how we as a movement
have to be willing to respond to the state, and
how we have to be willing to look at them
not just as this entity that we are facing down
like in like the courts and doing fun blocks, because
that clearly doesn't work. They are just going to murder us,
but as a force that is a you know, like
(46:29):
offensive militarized force coming after us. I think that is
a that it marks a really big just shift and
overallly looking at what the city government here is willing
to do to get this done. And I think that
a variety of tactics, while always band played, people are
always going to have different ways that they feel comfortable
and safe and responding.
Speaker 8 (46:49):
But I do think that I think what we.
Speaker 9 (46:52):
Saw on Saturday was a they response.
Speaker 8 (46:58):
To that that people showed up.
Speaker 7 (47:00):
And they made it very clear that we were not
going to take this line down, that people weren't going
to be willing to let the state going answer, and
that they were going to let the police going answer
for this acts. And I think from from now line
and going forward, I think we will I.
Speaker 8 (47:18):
Think appropoles that we see more and more people taking.
Speaker 7 (47:21):
Up acts of physical resistance to law enforcement to the
state to prevent them from building COP City and prevent
them from committing further.
Speaker 8 (47:29):
Acts of viol engines for gumrades.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
So far, the forced occupation has proved effective in delaying
the construction of COP City. In the past, barricades have
inhibited the movement of construction equipment. Machinery left in the
woods has been sabotaged, and during attempts to fell trees,
force defenders have put their own bodies on the line
by climbing into the tree tops to prevent them from
(47:52):
being cut down. Other prongs of the movement have similarly
produced successes. Pressure campaigns focused on getting contractors and businesses
to divest or pull out of the project resulted last
April in Reeve's Young Construction, the initial contractor for cop
City severing ties with the project after months of pressure,
(48:12):
and just this month, Quality Glass Company announced that they
would not be working on cop City, as well as
no longer doing business with Brassfield and Gory, the current
contractor for the facility. These pressure campaigns can include protests
at company offices, phone calls imploring them to drop the contract,
or actions more along the lines of vandalism at job sites,
(48:36):
or visits to the neighborhoods of company executives, even to
simply drop off flyers or banners.
Speaker 7 (48:43):
I don't think this was ever rough fright that we
were going to win on one front. The amount of
people that we were able to put in the encamp
in the forest was really beautiful to see, but the estate.
Speaker 8 (48:52):
Was always going to be able to.
Speaker 7 (48:54):
Put out enough manpower to shut that down. This is
a battle that we win on multiple friends. That includes
you know, that includes having that can include having physical
presence in the forest and preventing machinery from coming in,
but that also includes acts of sabotage, making sure that
(49:14):
contractors who are signed on the cop city do not
feel comfortable and do not feel safe signing on to
this project, and making this economically impossible for the city
to continue doing. As far as it being like a
new strategy, I don't know if it would be new,
as we've already seen you know, equipment spontaneously combussd and
(49:36):
such things. But I do think this marks a point
and potentially like the frequency of these things happening, and
also a necessary.
Speaker 9 (49:46):
I think evaluating of where we are now.
Speaker 7 (49:48):
And thinking realistically about what our next steps are to
make this an untenable situation for this city.
Speaker 10 (49:54):
To continue prosecuting well. One evolution that I see happening
is a consensus amongst long term organizers in Atlanta that
we want as many people coming here to participate as possible,
and also that I think one change is being less
picky in who we invite to participate and encouraging liberals
(50:15):
and moderates to be a part of this. They've always
been a part of it, but really am emphasizing that
side of the movement more.
Speaker 1 (50:25):
Back in the Defend the Atlanta Forest episodes from last May,
I talked about the shack model, the aim of which
is to make construction economically untenable by maintaining a presence
in the forest, sabotaging work, and targeting specific subcontractors locally
and elsewhere. In addition to contractors, corporate funders affiliated with
(50:46):
the APF can also be targeted to disincentivize affiliation with
the project. Solidarity actions targeting Atlanta Police Foundation contributors have
been happening nationwide. As mentioned at the top of the
up episode, A Week of solidarity is coming up on
February nineteenth, and Stopcopcitysolidarity dot org has many resources. In
(51:08):
the past, actions have included everything from office protests, divestment campaigns, vandalism,
and actions by workers within these companies to pressure them
into cutting ties. No action is too small or too ambitious.
In analysis on tactics published recently on its going down.
(51:29):
Said this regarding the targeting of Copcity investors. Quote. In
other campaigns, banks like Wells Fargo had been forced to
divest from police and prison expansion, but these efforts often
take years and lots of resources. Atlanta Police Foundation supporters
like public universities Georgia State University, Georgia Tech, or Emory
(51:52):
University could be lower hanging fruit. Comrades should identify which
COP City funders are most vulnerable, pressure where potential allies
like student groups and unions are positioned, and share this
info and synchronize actions. Unquote. Bureaucratic red tape can also
be effective in delaying progress. Ongoing zoning appeals could result
(52:15):
in an official stop work order, but it remains unseen
if such an order will even be followed, as currently
laws around zoning appeals are being ignored by the contractors
and the Atlanta Police Foundation. Tortigita had spoken of a
theory of THEIRS concerning the potential for intense police repression
(52:36):
and how the aftermath of that might play out. Quote.
They could come in and completely destroy the place, raise it,
arrest everybody they could find, kill anybody who resists arrest.
They could do that and then days later there would
be a shitload of people back here. For every head
(52:57):
they cut off, there would be more who would come
back to avenge the arrested, to avenge the Torte did
not finish that sentence, But resuming, what I'm saying is
if they do a huge crackdown and completely try to
crush the movement, they'll succeed at hurting some people, they'll
succeed at destroying some infrastructure, but they're not going to
(53:19):
succeed at stopping the movement. That's just going to strengthen
the movement. It will draw a lot of attention to
the movement. If enough people decide to do this, with
nonviolent action, you can overwhelm the infrastructure of the state.
That's something they fear more than violence in the streets,
because violence in the streets they'll win. They have the
(53:39):
guns for it, we don't unquote. No matter how the
movement continues, the weight of Torte's absence will be felt
as long as this fight carries on.
Speaker 6 (53:53):
It's such a huge loss. But as we keep thinking about,
you know, WWTD, what would Torte do. It's continue to
support those projects, It's continue to uplift the spaces and
groups that are supporting the most vulnerable amongst us and
uplifting their voices, uplifting their safety, and they are going
to continue to be trainings offered, training specifically for folks
who are marginalized and afraid of gun violence and want
(54:15):
to know how to be able to protect themselves and
protect their friends. This came about specifically in the wake
of the shooting at the gay bar. I guess a
few months ago now, Jesus, And that was something that
Tort was helping organize. So, yeah, we're gonna we're gonna
keep doing that work.
Speaker 1 (54:33):
How do you think you're going to like continue on
without without tour there? Now?
Speaker 3 (54:39):
You know, I think they they set me up the
hardest thing to navigate, like, Okay, what can I do?
Where can I fit in? Like short of you know,
living in the forest, And I think with just like
the canvassing, I feel like I've really figured out the
ways I can you know, my place in enough to
(55:01):
keep me busy.
Speaker 1 (55:02):
Was Tort kind of very instrumental to having you help
figure out like your role in this.
Speaker 3 (55:08):
I mean honestly, I would just like spitball, you know,
an idea and they'd be like yeah, you should do that,
or we would like yeah, that'd be sick. And that
gave me the confidence to be like okay. And also
like I think this movement is interesting because it's totally
different from any other organization or anything I've done in that, like,
(55:30):
if you want to volunteer in any other thing, like
you know, you make a graphic and you check it
and you send it to someone and get it approved,
you know. And just like the kind of deconstructing that
thinking was like, I mean, tort was really instrumental in that,
and it can be like difficult to navigate, but really
(55:50):
just walking all that back and being like if you
want to like you know, canvas your neighbors, like.
Speaker 8 (55:56):
You, just do it.
Speaker 1 (55:57):
The Stop Coopsity movement has called for a fifth Week
of Action to be held on March fourth through March
eleventh in Atlanta, Georgia. They are asking all those opposed
to Copcity to come participate in a variety of events
and actions both in and out of the forest and
if you're able to bring a tent, if you're unable
(56:20):
to travel, there's still calls to support people in your
own community who might be able to do so. This
week of action will be a key moment in the
next phase of the fight to defend the forest.
Speaker 10 (56:33):
I want people to know that being in the woods,
even if just for a few days, will transform you
in unexpected and delightful ways. And that's something that we
witnessed with Tort. Tort lived in the woods for less
than a year, and they transformed and blossomed into their
purpose in unexpected, in beautiful ways. And so if you
(56:55):
have the opportunity to come and spend any amount of
time in these woods, I encourage you to do so,
because I think that you'll find that it will nourish
you and aid in your growth as a human.
Speaker 1 (57:07):
The police have not succeeded in scaring everybody out of
the forest. Wilani People's Park is still legally required to
operate as a public park. Last month I saw regular
people jogging the trails. People still come every day. The
movement has only grown despite the repression, and now force
defenders in Atlanta are urging people everywhere to organize for
(57:30):
the upcoming mass convergence. A large list of resources and
movement websites I'll be putting in the description for people
to learn more and stay up to date with information
regarding the Week of Action. I'll end this series by
reading from a defend the Forest poster that I saw
around Atlanta. Quote, it is your mission to stop Copcity
(57:54):
by all of the means at your disposal, without hesitation.
Defend the forest from destruction, the city from commercialization, the
future from ruin, the imagination from conquest, and the heart
from resignation. Do not wait for further instruction. Reality is
(58:15):
the battlefield.
Speaker 11 (58:16):
Yeah, the rain on leaves tickling the earliest of instruments.
The melody we mimicking is the sound of wind whistling,
lying before the safety, and channing under the stars. Camped
underbre canopy, she sang own song, and she was far
from silent, no virus of violence with the fragrance of
her flowers that continued to invite us of medicine materials
(58:37):
are vitamins and minerals and all that is essential, which
just grew right beside us, and tics of starting fighting
over the gifts that she provide us, scorching over every
soil that all of us derived from. And when empires
learning came with stand fire, we returned to the land
where our ancestors rain Dance were all her creatures. We
still bear her features. The one and only reason all
(58:58):
living things is breathing. The cities deceive and leave, Go
see the dark. Jong Go be among the lungs of
mother Art could.
Speaker 7 (59:07):
Voice Yeah.
Speaker 10 (59:25):
Down, Shut him down.
Speaker 7 (59:32):
It was a forest.
Speaker 1 (59:35):
Music by the narcissist Cookbook and Propaganda. It could Happen
here as a production of cool Zone Media.
Speaker 2 (59:41):
For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
cool zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Speaker 1 (59:50):
You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated
monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources.
Speaker 2 (59:56):
Thanks for listening.
In the early morning of January thirty, first, news started
to proliferate that the City of Atlanta, the Atlanta Police Foundation,
and Decab County reached a quote unquote compromise regarding the
future of Copp City. Word spread that city officials in
Atlanta were about to announce a major scaling back of
the cop City project, that the project's size would be
(00:45):
dramatically reduced and focus more on fire department and first
respond to resources, as opposed to the original plans for
the militarized police campus. Many were skeptical about this news
and saw this simply as an empty promise masquerading as
a compromise in a savvy pr move but even some
(01:08):
who were pessimistic at least saw this as a sign
that the movement is having a substantial impact. Activists rallied
outside city Hall, holding stop coop City signs and Defend
the Forest banners. Some reporters were denied entry into the
press conference, and protesters stood outside Mayor Andre Dickens's office
(01:29):
and chanted. At the press conference that afternoon, the Mayor
of Atlanta and representatives of Decap County announced an agreement
to allow the previously announced eighty five acre Copsity project
to proceed as planned, with land disturbance permits to be issued.
(01:54):
The rest of the land parcel of forest leased to
the Police Foundation will be allegedly set for preservation, a
claim that was already previously promised by officials involved with
the project. Decab County and the City of Atlanta released
a memorandum of understanding for the building of the site,
containing a quote statement of principles, commitments, and intentions unquote.
(02:20):
Mayor Dickens framed the facility as an answer to demands
for police training reform during twenty twenty's George Floyd Uprising, saying, quote,
this training needs space, and that's exactly what this training
center is going to offer unquote. The mayor also responded
to environmental concerns by claiming the area of forest slated
(02:40):
for destruction contains only quote invasive species soft woods and
weeds unquote. Officials said the so called compromise agreement would
contain provisions for preserving parts of the South River Forest.
When asked how the environment would be protected, Mayor Dickens
mentioned that it's a three hundred and eighty five acre
(03:01):
set of land. Copcity is eighty five acres. The rest
is green space, and that quote the environment will be
protected in that way unquote, with no indication given on
how it would be protected or by whom. Among the
few environmental promises are quote replacing any removed or impacted
(03:22):
specimen trees with one hundred new hardwood plantings on the
site or elsewhere, as well as one specimen tree for
any invasive species tree that was removed unquote. It's unknown
if they have even counted how many trees have been
felled so far. Activists called this a ploita hastily push
(03:44):
through a sequence of land disturbance permits. The most up
to date site plans has the Public Safety Training Center
spread out over a parcel of one hundred and seventy
one acres, with about eighty seven of those acres slated
for disturbance. There is nothing in the lease agreement that
restricts the Police Foundation from building outside of those one
(04:06):
hundred and seventy one acres, though they promise it will
be protected green space. This compromise pr stunt is not
even a new tactic. In August of twenty twenty one,
after initial protests against the project delayed, the city Council vote.
The Atlanta Police Foundation claimed a similar quote unquote compromise.
Instead of clearing the three hundred and eighty so acres
(04:29):
that they are leased by the City of Atlanta, they
would reduce the footprint of buildings and disturbed surfaces to
only ninety acres, while more of the land would be
cleared and turned into turf fields, shooting ranges, and horse
stables labeled quote unquote green space. And wouldn't you know
that sounds almost exactly identical to this new plan for compromise.
(04:52):
Unfailed at the end of last month. Upon such rhetoric
and empty promises, The movement didn't fall, but continued to
demand and fight for the full cancelation of the project,
whether in the Wolani Forest or elsewhere. After the January
thirty first press conference, organizers in Atlanta called for a
(05:13):
week of solidarity actions starting February nineteenth through the twenty
sixth quote calling on all people wherever you are to
take action in solidarity with the Movement to Stop Copcity. Protest,
sit in, call and email the contractors building Copcity. Every
action has an impact unquote. At stopcopcitysolidarity dot org, there
(05:37):
are guides for various actions people can take from calling
copcity contractors or investors, to posting flyers around town or
planning direct action using the interactive target map. If you
do go on any movement related website, it's strongly recommended
to use a VPN and a tour compatible browser like Brave.
(05:59):
The national spot light on the movement has certainly increased
a great deal in the past month, both with an
influx of scrutiny and support from across the country and
even the world.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
The press collective has always had kind of a hybrid
role both of recording on the movement and researching the movement,
researching the prison farm, but a lot of media outlets
don't quite understand the autonomous nature of the struggle, so
we have kind of found ourselves in a role of
(06:31):
kind of liaisoning between media and the rest of the movement.
But thankfully it's not just us doing it, because boys
everyone interested. All of a sudden. No one was talking
about the movement at the beginning, so we were like,
all right, we'll talk about it ourselves. We've been able
to use our platform to publicize a lot of solidarity events,
(06:55):
not just share memorials and what people want to know
about tort but you know, publicize these things across the
nation and across the world.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Statements in solidarity have come in from radicals in Italy, Germany, France,
and Rajava. After the killing of Tortigita, vigils happened in
cities all across the United States. A wave of targeted
vandalism and direct action against cop city investors and contractors
happened across the country in response to Towart's death in Atlanta.
(07:30):
There's a concerted effort to not seed perception of the
movement to the state. People have an intentional, collaborative way
to affect how the movement is seen externally. This media
strategy is simply one prong of the fight, along with
the encampments, sabotage, vandalism, pressure campaigns, and canvassing.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
I think it's really representative of the type of people
that are dedicated to the struggle in general, the way
that anyone and everyone has come together to handle the
influx of media requests to make smart decisions about it,
to make sure that decisions are made with the consent
of those involved, be it sharing the stories of people
(08:13):
who are arrested that day, sharing the stories of twarts,
family and towarts partners and making sure to respect their
boundaries in space.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Despite the diverse nature of requests, there always seems to
be somebody in the movement who is able to speak
on whatever aspect of the struggle is needed.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
You need someone who's cut a master's in environmental engineering.
There's someone in the movement that can talk to you
for forty five minutes about the good environmental reasons to
stop cop City. You need someone to talk for three
hours about the history of the place. There's someone for
that too. You need someone to talk about how the
project is a pretty good example of why the Black
(08:56):
Mecca is a myth. The movement has people who can
speak to that too. There's been a tremendous amount of
attention paid to the movement all of a sudden, and again,
the way folks have just stepped up and come together
to handle it, I think speaks to the communal nature
of the movement. It is dedicated to building. It's not
(09:17):
just about saving the forest, it's about saving the forest
for the community.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
When I spoke with Karen, the neighborhood mom who started
canvassing and organizing in her community, she mentioned how even
her older family who are longtime Georgia residents, haven't totally
bought the state's talking points.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
I can say, you know, my mom and my mother
in law and like, you know, family, they know that
I care about this, and you know they're boomers. But
I've been surprised how there's a lot of skepticism in
the police narrative, which I found really interesting.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
You know, normally when something like this happens, it's just
one hundred percent police narrative. Mayor Dickens, the dey toort died,
put out a pretty for mistweet that just expressed their
condolences to the family of the trooper that was injured,
and not one single word about the person that died.
And in most fatal incidents with police, you at least
(10:16):
get some kind of boilerplate language about, oh, we're sorry
that someone died, and a lot of the initial statements
from government and larger organizations just just said nothing. But
the media, even local news, in pretty much every single report,
(10:36):
there's at least a line or two, if not a
pretty decent chunk of you know, whatever five PM news
story it is that say protesters have questions, people have
questions about towards death and given the pretty universally negative
way that Atlanta media in particular has covered the defendive
(10:57):
Forest movement, the fact that even those outlets have to
respond to the overwhelming amount of folks speaking out about
how what happened doesn't make sense, about what kind of
person tour it was, about how none of this had
to happen in the first place. I'd love to say
(11:18):
that someone who pays attention to the meat how the
media covers this, that I could have predicted that would happen.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Three members of Congress Rashida Thalib, Corey Bush, and Senator
Ed Marky have joined in calling for an independent investigation
into Tortighita's death.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Like I saw a screenshot from NBC News this morning,
NBC News, and like the Chiron was protesters still have
questions about towards death, Like that's from this morning.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Even after the riot quote unquote, after the artison and
property destruction, and almost like a week after the incident.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Yeah, Like I mean it was It's hard to remember now,
but I think it was like almost a month after
George Floyd died before folks really yeah, before it really
got national attention with when Raichard was killed here in Atlanta.
It was a little more immediate because of because of
a lot of things.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
During the rally at Underground Atlanta, while people were speaking
in front of the dozen or so news cameras, someone
talked about how there are still people in town that
are just learning about Cop City and the fight to
prevent it from being built.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
They of work.
Speaker 5 (12:27):
I had four different conversations about the Lalaani Forest in
regards to everything that's going on, with four different people
who were unaware of what was happening. As big as
this seems right now, a lot of people are still unaware.
And as long as we keep being loud, as long
as we make sure that cop City will never be
fucking built, we just got to keep talking about it.
(12:52):
May and Dickens, Ryan millsap, you have blood on your hands. Uh,
fuck cop City.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
I think we're about to really see how the national
media is going to pick up on the domestic terrorism
and frankly, the fact that they're talking to us at all,
or the fact that they're talking to the movement at all,
I think speaks to the strength of the movement and
the simple truth of it, which is that tort didn't
have to die and This is a very wide arranging
(13:22):
movement with a lot of people who have some very
good reasons for being opposed to the project, and I
think those reasons are so compelling that I don't want
to say it's easy to see past the noise, but
it's not that hard.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
I remember one conversation with Tort where I was like,
this might just be like an egotistical or something, but
I really think this is like a lot bigger than you,
you know, just a little neighborhood struggle. And yeah, we
talked about We were like, yeah, no, people don't know
it yet, but it's the intersection of so many things,
(13:58):
and you know, if more people realize is that it
would be huge. And it's you know, really heartbreaking that
I think they were right, you know, they didn't get
to see it.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
One of the main talking points the state has been
trying to push through to the media is condemning copcity
protesters and force defenders as outside agitators. There's a Good
Crime Thing zine titled The Making of Outside Agitators that
focuses on the use of the term as related to
the twenty fourteen Ferguson Uprising that gave birth to the
(14:53):
modern Black Lives Matter movement. For this next section, i'll
paraphrase a little bit from that zine. The state and
media's invocation of the term in Atlanta has been accelerating
rapidly since the raids last December, using it alongside notions
of terrorism to justify the police's violent escalation of protest suppression.
(15:16):
For example, this clip from the Copcity Community Stakeholders Advisory
Committee meeting held days after the December raid that introduced
the domestic terrorism charges. Speaking is the assistant chief for
the Atlanta Police Department.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
And so one of the things we charged them with,
to include criminal trespass, was domestic terrorism charge that we
put on them. So going forward, that is one of
the charges we will be using because that's exactly what
they are. None of those people live here. They do
not have a vest interest in this property, and we
show that time and time again. Was an individual from
(15:52):
Los Angeles, California concerned about a training facility being built
in the state of Georgia. And that is why we
consider domestic terrors.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
There's a darkly prophetic sentence from that Crime thinkazine I
mentioned quote when we hear them say outside agitators, we
know the authorities are getting ready to spill blood.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
A pretty consistent talking point by the Police Foundation police
the state in general has been that a lot of
the people they've arrested for incidents related to defend the
forest have had out of state licenses, out of state addresses,
(16:34):
and what they describe as no connection to Georgia. They
have been sent here to stir up trouble. Right, they
aren't from here, They're just they're just here to because
they don't like the cops, right, they have they have
no stake in this struggle. So there's some pretty obvious
(16:56):
problems with that, And there's some pretty lengthy historic races
tied to the term outside agitators that makes it, you know,
especially Hanus to use. In the South, the term outside
agitators was used to describe the Freedom Writers, so it's
got a got a little bit of history there.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Governor Brian Kemp declaring a state of emergency so that
the National Guard can be on standby to occupy Atlanta
sure seems like outside agitation. But even the Atlanta Police
Department's use of the term carries with it a great
deal of hypocrisy.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
APD has since twenty twenty really made a big deal
out of stepping up its recruitment efforts, and if you
go back and look at those presentations to the media
to city council, they consistently talk about, oh, we went
to New York for three days, we went to Miami
for a week. I believe it was would have been September,
(17:53):
just after Darren Sheerbaum was officially installed as Chief of Police.
He went before the City Council. I talked about how
he was so proud to have personally recruited someone from
Detroit per basically a part of their loan application, because
they're applying for a loan to finance part of cop city.
(18:15):
By their own numbers, forty three percent of recruits that
will be trained at this facility will come from out
of state. They are forty three percent from outside the
state of Georgia. Again in APDs on statements about the facility,
this facility is built to bring in people from out
of state, from out of the country. Even because Atlanta
(18:38):
participates in the Georgia International Law Enforcement Exchange, which is
basically an exchange program with the idea with the Israeli military,
where we go there, they come here, We teach each.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Other news articles claiming that a majority of those arrested
are residents from other states might sound like convince the
evidence to middle class readers, But anyone who has been
poor and precarious knows that the permanent address you give
when you're arrested may not be the same as the
place you actually live. You might give a different address
(19:11):
because you aren't sure your current housing will last, because
your landlord doesn't know your place has more people in
it than are named on the lease, or simply because
you don't want local vigilantes to know where you live. Instead,
you might give a more reliable, long term address, perhaps
from another state.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
I mean on a human level, like how many times
have you moved somewhere and not changed your address? How
many times have.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
You going to the DMV sucks?
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Yes, going to the DMV sucks.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
So a lot of people don't have the privilege to
be able to go to the DMV or don't have
a permanent home address. A lot of people are dealing
with housing instability like this. There's so many aspects of
this that makes it pretty egregious, and not.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Only of course, is this a struggle that deeply compelling
Regardless of where you call home. It just doesn't match
up to like the facts of life, Like it's a
little bit bizarre. Their insistence that the local populace couldn't
possibly be that opposed to it when grab any one
(20:16):
person in the movement who's from Georgia and they know
ten people who's opposed to it, that person who's ten people.
And also you have statistics like during the what's seventeen
hours of public comment, seventy percent of people who called
in were opposed to it. Basically the only people who
(20:39):
weren't were people who self identified as police officers, firefighters,
and those who lived in Buckhead. And it's not that simple,
but it's pretty clear that maybe you'd be okay with
building the facility somewhere else. Maybe you're an abolitionist, maybe this,
that and the other. But Atlanta doesn't want this. Atlanta
(20:59):
doesn't want this here.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Let's imagine that some of these arrestees who gave out
of town addresses are in Atlanta for the very first time.
Would that make them outside agitators? Maybe if the issue
was specific to Atlanta alone and they had no stake
in the cause, copp City would be a place that
police agencies from all around the country and world come
(21:23):
to to train and practice urban militarism. Climate collapse and
the destruction of forests is similarly a worldwide issue and
one of apocalyptic magnitude.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
It's a false narrative in one sense, because climate change
affects everybody. Cutting down a forest would make climate change worse.
Like that's a very very very obvious talking point. If
if environment of protecting the environment is important to you,
it is obvious that this is a very key struggle
(21:57):
right now, especially in the context of Atlanta and growing
and also gentrifying city, and this being in a largely
black and brown, middle to low income neighborhood, and this
being such a vast green space in those communities that
(22:19):
don't have the manicured Piedmont Park in their backyards.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
When people are suffering the same forms of oppression everywhere,
it makes sense for us to come into each other's assistance.
This is not outside agitation, This is solidarity. Solidarity has
always been the most important tool of the oppressed. This
is why authorities go to such lengths to demonize anybody
(22:43):
who has the courage to take risks to support others.
Crickets spoke at length about the outside agitator narrative that
the state has been employing.
Speaker 6 (22:53):
I think one thing that comes to mind is something
that I've heard a lot is that the people in
this movement are not from here. Quote, that they're outside agitators,
that they're not from this community, They're not you know.
And it seems to me very clear to be an
attempt to sort of discredit what is a very clear
majority of the community that does not want this forest destroyed,
does not want copp City built, you know, seventy percent.
(23:17):
And that argument infuriates me because I mean, first of all,
the US military is the biggest like outside agitator in
the world, and I just I find that irony sort
of unbearable. And then I think there's this question. We
can get into questions of what does it mean to
be from somewhere? And what I think is a more
helpful question is how are you somewhere? How are you
(23:37):
in relation to a place? And I think Tort was
someone who was always trying to be in the right
relation with the land and in right relation with their neighbors,
in right relation with the communities here. One story that
I keep revisiting of them is when we were checking
in and people were asking them, you know what, what
do folks in the forest need? What can we get them?
Do they need food? You know what do they need?
(24:00):
And tour it was like, oh no, actually, you know,
we have everything we need. But it would be great
if people could start, we could make sure they're giving
food to the poor folks in their own communities, Like
make sure you're giving the food to the people in
your neighborhoods. Are you checking in with the unhoused communities
in your neighborhood like they were just I think constantly
seeking to be in right relation. And I think regardless
of where all of us are from, if we can
(24:21):
conclaim to be from somewhere, I mean, arguably, if we're
not Muscogee Creek, none of us is from here. But
I think it's a more helpful direction to think about
what are we doing once we're here? How are we
trying to be here? And yeah, I mean that that
specific argument. Really it really frustrates me because I think
it really obfuscates how much this is a local movement.
(24:43):
And also having solidarity from across state lines, from across
national lines, speaks to the intersection of our the intersections
of our oppressions the intersections of our movements. It doesn't
speak to the fact that this is co opted, or
it doesn't indicate anything other that none of us is free,
into all us are free.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
The ultimate goal of the police is not so much
to brutalize and pacify specific individuals as it is to
extract rebelliousness itself from the social fabric. They seek to
externalize agitation, so anyone who stands up for themselves will
be seen as an outsider, as deviant and anti social.
(25:24):
Noah mentioned how the outside agitator narrative is rooted in
stripping people of their own autonomy.
Speaker 7 (25:32):
It's completely denying you, like the freedom of movement and
the freedom to decide that you would like to go
and support other issues, as if with the empathy of them,
to show solidarity with other people, as well as like
just deciding that if you are living here a bit
from out of town, that somehow makes you a flight rescler,
(25:54):
That makes you in some way it's more more dangerous
than if you are, I guess, an official resident. In
some it's all complete bullshit.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
I mean, and even some of the people who are
like out of town, they're like not even two hours
away from where from where the prosecutors are claiming where
they're from the outside. Agitator's narrative only works if we
have this sense of otherness that we talked about in
the last episode, this disconnect and separation from neighboring struggles,
(26:26):
as if lines on a map change the morality of actions.
Keeping people in pre trial jail for an unknown amount
of time could could be literally over a year because
they are deemed non local, so the judge thought they
were a quote unquote flight risk beyond the charters themselves,
(26:46):
which are innately kind of absurd, and the brutality is
the point. The she audacity of keeping people with no
evidence in cages for years for going to a protest
is just it's not surprising, but it still is incredibly upsetting, Like.
Speaker 6 (27:04):
It's like it's no and it would be completely decried
if it were happening in any other country, right and
a massive human rights violation. If it's happening in China
because of the US China relations, like absolutely not there
there'd be an entire like I don't know, national outcry.
But because it's people who are resisting this government in
this state, then yeah, it doesn't get the same kind
(27:25):
of empathy, it doesn't get the same outcry.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
When I talked with Karen, she spoke about how thankful
she is that there are people from across the country,
people like Torte who care about the South River Forest
enough to travel to Atlanta to defend it.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
In terms of the narrative of like outside agitators, you know,
I'm I'm really grateful that people are coming to like
protect the forest in my backyard, Like I am. I
have like so much gratitude. It is so it is
so meaningful. Yeah, and I I think I think after
(28:02):
the first raid, I told toward that and I'm glad
I did. But yeah, it really is like just so
much gratitude.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
The framing of outside agitators is meant to keep people
away and stifle solidarity, just like the domestic terrorism charges
are meant to The state is trying out every tactic
to scare people away from participating in the movement. So
it feels like just the past month there's been such
an intense increase in the level of state repression and
(28:34):
state violence. How do you see things evolving in the
next few weeks and months and or like even days.
At this point, like just with how both like physical
violence is definitely increasing with the raids and now like
you know, killing somebody, and then the types of like
(28:54):
you know, judicial abuse of power, giving people seven hundred
thousand dollars bail being many others just in jail and
perpetuity for who knows how long.
Speaker 6 (29:06):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's clear looking at this
movement that the state, the cops police have always been
the first to escalate have and have now murdered someone,
have now assassinated someone, and are the ones who are
constantly sort of making putting other people's lives in danger.
They're really the people who are making folks unsafe and
(29:26):
tor it was a street medic tor. It was someone
who went through street medic training with someone who is
passionate about protecting their community. And in street medic training,
one of the things that it's taught there's a whole
section on police weapons and state weapons, and sure we
cover tear gas, we cover on bullets, we cover all
anything that you can sort of commonly see protests or
in raids, and one of the biggest weapons that we
(29:48):
always cover as fear. And that is really what I
see happening with this escalation is that, yes, there's a
sort of increase of literal weapons, of arms, of just
everything we've heard about in the forest. But I think
when you take that in combination with the ludicrous charges,
what they're really trying to weaponize is our own fear,
(30:09):
as our own emotions, making us think that it's too
dangerous to be in the forest, that it's not worth it,
that it's too risky, making us think that the forest
itself is somehow an unsafe place, making us think that
the people who protected are unsafe. And I think that's
the sort of trend that I'm seeing. I think in
terms of what's coming next, I think they're going to
(30:29):
keep leaning into the weapon of fear. I think it's
I think it's you know, not haha funny that they
accuse protesters and the people who've been charged with domestic
terrorism of intimidation, when clearly they're using those charges to
intimidate people, both the people who are charged with it
and anyone who might consider themselves an ally or a
friend of the forest and a friend of the forest defenders.
(30:52):
So what I see moving forward in terms of carrying
towards legacy, forward in terms of carrying this movement forward
is not buying into that bullshit very much, being fear
walking and not trying to say people shouldn't be scared
or not have those feelings. But one of the memories
of tort that I have is them very clearly refusing intimidation.
Whether it was cops, whether it was you know whoever
(31:14):
the sort of representative of the state was, they never
gave into that, And I think that's what I'm trying
to carry forward. A lot of us are trying to
carry forward.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Noah spoke similarly about fear being a powerful weapon of
the state and a very insidious one because it doesn't
punish people for actions they may or may not have done,
but instead works to prevent people from taking action in
the first place.
Speaker 8 (31:39):
Fear. Fear is the number one tool that the state
brings to bear.
Speaker 9 (31:44):
All of their toys and their guns.
Speaker 7 (31:47):
And shit do not have the reach and do not
have the capacity to stop actual liberation. Fear making people
afraid of the idea of revolting, of the idea of
dissonance is extremely powerful, and it's.
Speaker 8 (32:08):
Something that we all have to combat in our own ways.
Speaker 9 (32:10):
It's something we all have to.
Speaker 8 (32:11):
Resist in our own ways. Because like, obviously the.
Speaker 7 (32:15):
State is capable of murdering and of putting people in
prison for a very long time, and that is scary,
and that is a valid thing to be afraid of.
But we stand to lose so much if we do
not combat that fear to face off with them. That
it's just something that I've found I have to manage.
(32:36):
It's something that because we I'm so much more afraid
of what we all lose if we don't stop them
here than I am of myself being harmed or going
to prison. We all stand to lose in terms of
millions of people stand to lose.
Speaker 8 (32:52):
Everything if we allow climate back.
Speaker 7 (32:55):
Lips to bear, if we allow the powers that be
to get signific can be more effective at combating dissidence
in the streets from not just for in the United States,
but for cop City. This is an international struggle. I mean,
this is the same police department that durs Cross training
with the idea of if you think the I would
(33:17):
becoming this facility to train better, how to you know, kill.
Speaker 8 (33:21):
Palestanan dissidence.
Speaker 7 (33:24):
With yourself Like this will mean something to every foreign military,
to every foreign police first, and every police force in.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
The US there's a quote from Torti Ghita talking about
how to deal with fear. What I'm about to read
also demonstrates, as their partner said that Tort was very
aware of the risks inherent to resisting the state, especially
as a non white forest defender, But with an understanding
of that risk and the fear associated with said risk,
(33:54):
they chose it was worth it to keep on fighting. Quote,
Am I scared of the state? Pretty silly not to be.
I'm a brown person. I might be killed by the
police for existing in certain spaces. Fear is the mind killer.
That's a quote I think about often.
Speaker 8 (34:14):
I must not fear, and fear.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
Is the mind killer.
Speaker 7 (34:17):
Now here's a little death that brings total obligation.
Speaker 8 (34:22):
I'm permitting too passable for.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Me and for me to continue what Tort said quote
I am scared, but you can't let the fear stop
you from doing things, from living, from existing, from resisting
unquote m. In the early nineteen sixties, Atlanta was dubbed
(35:05):
the City too Busy to hate. The phrase can be
traced back to a Civil Rights era marketing slogan attributed
to Mayor Ivan Allen, who spent millions of dollars in
the nineteen sixties to promote Atlanta as a business oriented city,
a city moving forward from its racial past and into
a hopeful new future. This was the beginning of the
(35:28):
Atlanta Way. Still today, you can find the city too
busy to hate everywhere on murals, posters, and t shirts.
It's become part of Atlanta's identity, or at least Atlanta
tries to tell itself that within the slogan lies this
admission of the belief that racism and oppression can be
(35:50):
beaten by hyper capitalism, meaning the first and foremost goal
of the city is economic progress. Equality and racial justice
us must take a back seat because the city is
just too busy. There's few better examples of this inaction
than the black neighborhoods that were demolished to build infrastructure
(36:12):
for the nineteen ninety six Olympics and later the Mercedes
Benz Stadium. Since then, the Beltline's original vision of public transit,
green space, and affordable housing has been abandoned in favor
of developing luxury apartments and i gentrified retail joints. As
Fuco's Boomerang brings, the internal colonization of gentrification and increasing
(36:34):
police militarization to Atlanta. It only makes sense that Copp
City and the battle to stop it is happening here.
Speaker 6 (36:41):
Tort died two days right after Martin Luther King Junior
Memorial Day. We're in Atlanta. There's this whole section of
the Delta Airport in Atlanta dedicated to John Lewis. You
can hear his voice on a loop saying good trouble.
And yet as soon as the festivities are over, as
soon as the fund raising is over, when someone is
shot resisting the state and a peaceful, nonviolent direct action,
they're labeled a terrorist. I don't understand how someone can
(37:04):
possibly reconcile those two things. They seem to me to
be grotesque. I mean, it's it's disgusting, but I don't
see that reflected in any mainstream narrative.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Noah talked with me about how he first got involved
in the stop Coop City movement.
Speaker 7 (37:19):
Yeah, so my and then my introduction to cops. They
started to where most people's and at landed. When it
got first fleet that this was a thing that the
city was planning.
Speaker 9 (37:30):
I remember having just a very.
Speaker 7 (37:31):
Like, oh my god, what the fuck like reaction to
realizing like they want to destroy the largest urban canopy
in the country, to build a big fake city for
them to practice doing urban combat, and that's like parody dystopian,
And very quickly people.
Speaker 9 (37:50):
Were organizing in.
Speaker 8 (37:52):
Various different ways to start them to make their voices.
Speaker 9 (37:56):
Heard that this was not something that I learned on
was okay with. This is not something we were.
Speaker 7 (38:00):
Okay with having our communities is not something that anybody wanted.
Speaker 8 (38:04):
That took a lot of different friends.
Speaker 7 (38:05):
For me. I mean that went from working, whether that
be on the streets, to just doing food destroyers and
medical trainings to you know, scampering around the woods with
my friends. Like that took many different forms forms of
resistance there, and over time that has in our change
(38:28):
and evolve. But I still think of something that I
work in a lot of different friends to be as
effective as a person as possible when it comes to resistingness.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
The sheer resiliency we've seen in Atlanta post twenty twenty
has been incredibly impressive and inspiring. After twenty twenty, the
radical communities in a lot of cities dealt with pretty
extreme burnout to due to such a grueling summer, and
ever since then, people seem to be recovering and anticipating
the next cycle of mass uprising. As news spread of
(39:03):
Memphis police's brutal beating of Tyree Nichols, which resulted in
his death, there was renewed discussion if it was gonna
spark the quote unquote next twenty twenty. But Atlanta is
one of the few cities where things really haven't halted
since twenty twenty defend the Forest stuff. It's been going
(39:24):
pretty hard ever since like twenty twenty one, and it's
been a very like impressive amount of resiliency. Can you
can you kind of talk on that aspect of how
people have been able to do that?
Speaker 7 (39:37):
Yeah, I think it comes down to having a really
good support network of people, people who are willing to
be support activists, who are support.
Speaker 9 (39:51):
Actors monically and financially like, who are able.
Speaker 8 (39:54):
To make this possible. And it also comes down to that.
Speaker 7 (39:57):
The Defend the Forest movement is so it is so
important to anybody. It should be so important to anybody
who looked at twenty twenty as a strike back against
police violence. What copsidy means for all of us is
a world in which it is much harder to resist police,
especially in the cities, and for a lot of activists
(40:19):
who came out of twenty twenty to find the forest
became an extension of that fight. It became its own
and it's on fight to put out the forest and
an extension of the battle against the violence of the
state and against.
Speaker 9 (40:30):
The ability of the police to fur the militaries.
Speaker 8 (40:32):
And I think that kept a lot of a lot
of people going. But not certainly happens.
Speaker 7 (40:38):
I mean, it can be really exhaustion work, it can
be really defeating at times, and it's been really.
Speaker 9 (40:44):
Important I think for people everywhere and here to have you.
Speaker 7 (40:49):
Know, friends and things that they can do to decompress
and take time off when needed, to stay, to keep
the ability to keep doing this and to burn up completely,
and to be able to keep going against what feels
like our ads at times.
Speaker 9 (41:07):
Also, just activists here are pretty fucking resilient.
Speaker 7 (41:11):
Just I'm continually so impressed by the people I see
just continuing to guard day after day and working behind
the scenes, doing everything possible to make sure that we
can keep doing the solidary different has a couple of things.
I'm getting money on people's commissaries, and the past has
done like later writing campaigns for political personers across the country,
(41:33):
which is certainly like a thing that you know, we're
looking at a present of people being had a very
long term that's absolutely going to be something in the
coming weeks that I help people spending today, Like obviously
these people who are inclustrated are support in every way
we can possibly possibly do that.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
If the people currently incarcerated are granted bond during the
appeal process and it's set to the same amount as
the last two individuals, that would be three hundred and
fifty five thousand dollars per person for at least five
more people that included with.
Speaker 7 (42:07):
Like the previous bond amunds that were set for previous words.
I mean, we're approaching three million dollars and potential bonds,
which is just designed to join people as much as
possible and make the idea of protest as same impossible.
And again this is just another fairtactic. This is how
they perpetuate powers through fear and making it same as
(42:30):
impossible to making it seem like if you were to
get arrested, that you would never get out because that's terrifying. Yeah,
that's the number one to what that they bring the bear.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
There have been a few semi distinct stages in the
struggle against copp City. In summer of twenty twenty one,
the initial stage was trying to get the city council
to vote no on the project. There was a lot
of canvassing, calling representatives, involvement from large above ground organization
like the DSA and Sunrise, you know, people trying to
(43:03):
quote unquote campaign the right way to get the project
shut down before it even started. And then even despite
seventy percent of the local people who called in not
wanting this, the city council voted for it anyway. And
then starting two months after the vote, and for over
a year now, we've had this forest occupation or encampment stage.
(43:29):
People going into the woods and having their continuous physical
presence there itself be a deterrent for construction. Concurrently, there
have been random acts of sabotage with construction equipment spontaneously
bursting into flames, alongside pressure campaigns targeting subcontractors and cop
City investors. With the past few police raids having been
(43:52):
increasingly violent and the last one resulting in the death
of a force defender, I asked the people I spoke
with if they saw any forthcoming new stage of the movement,
considering the cops are trying really hard to make it
very dangerous to camp in the woods right now, what's
your sense from on the ground, how stuff might you
(44:12):
know with these increasing charges, increasing withs of alphones and increasing.
Speaker 8 (44:17):
Use of force.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
What's some kind of ways that you feel stuff might
start changing on the ground, Like do you think the
encampment style will continue or will it kind of evolve
in a new kind of unexpected direction.
Speaker 10 (44:31):
It remains to be seen how the approach to living
in the woods will adapt to these changes. The decap
County Police Department has claimed that they're going to increase
their surveillance and patrol of the neighborhood that the Woods
is in. It remains to be seen what that will
mean for the encampment and how active they're going to
(44:52):
be in you know, repressing people in a day to
day sort of thing. And also I think one change
reconsidering what on the ground means and what the bounds
of the forest are. There's more woods that black Hall
plans to develop on nearby, so reconsidering what on the
ground is, you know, Brassfield and gory construction sites could
(45:16):
be considered an on the ground site, you know, for actions,
and you know, I think there's a lot of room
to grow in that direction as well.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
Like do you see this moment as like a substantial
turning point. I think so.
Speaker 9 (45:30):
I mean, I don't think it could be a turning point.
Speaker 8 (45:33):
I think that every every.
Speaker 7 (45:35):
Escalation of violence that has been perpetrated by law enforcement,
there's never been a moment in which the people combining
law enforcement have been the ones to escalate the violence.
And I think that this marks.
Speaker 8 (45:48):
A willingness of the government here and this is the
government that this is the hill that.
Speaker 9 (45:53):
They're willing to die on. This is where they're going
to stand their ground, and where they are proving to
wish that.
Speaker 7 (46:00):
They are committed and so committed to the idea of
building top city that they are willing to kill people.
Speaker 8 (46:06):
And I think that that.
Speaker 7 (46:07):
Is a turning point in how we as a movement
have to be willing to respond to the state, and
how we have to be willing to look at them
not just as this entity that we are facing down
like in like the courts and doing fun blocks, because
that clearly doesn't work. They are just going to murder us,
but as a force that is a you know, like
(46:29):
offensive militarized force coming after us. I think that is
a that it marks a really big just shift and
overallly looking at what the city government here is willing
to do to get this done. And I think that
a variety of tactics, while always band played, people are
always going to have different ways that they feel comfortable
and safe and responding.
Speaker 8 (46:49):
But I do think that I think what we.
Speaker 9 (46:52):
Saw on Saturday was a they response.
Speaker 8 (46:58):
To that that people showed up.
Speaker 7 (47:00):
And they made it very clear that we were not
going to take this line down, that people weren't going
to be willing to let the state going answer, and
that they were going to let the police going answer
for this acts. And I think from from now line
and going forward, I think we will I.
Speaker 8 (47:18):
Think appropoles that we see more and more people taking.
Speaker 7 (47:21):
Up acts of physical resistance to law enforcement to the
state to prevent them from building COP City and prevent
them from committing further.
Speaker 8 (47:29):
Acts of viol engines for gumrades.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
So far, the forced occupation has proved effective in delaying
the construction of COP City. In the past, barricades have
inhibited the movement of construction equipment. Machinery left in the
woods has been sabotaged, and during attempts to fell trees,
force defenders have put their own bodies on the line
by climbing into the tree tops to prevent them from
(47:52):
being cut down. Other prongs of the movement have similarly
produced successes. Pressure campaigns focused on getting contractors and businesses
to divest or pull out of the project resulted last
April in Reeve's Young Construction, the initial contractor for cop
City severing ties with the project after months of pressure,
(48:12):
and just this month, Quality Glass Company announced that they
would not be working on cop City, as well as
no longer doing business with Brassfield and Gory, the current
contractor for the facility. These pressure campaigns can include protests
at company offices, phone calls imploring them to drop the contract,
or actions more along the lines of vandalism at job sites,
(48:36):
or visits to the neighborhoods of company executives, even to
simply drop off flyers or banners.
Speaker 7 (48:43):
I don't think this was ever rough fright that we
were going to win on one front. The amount of
people that we were able to put in the encamp
in the forest was really beautiful to see, but the estate.
Speaker 8 (48:52):
Was always going to be able to.
Speaker 7 (48:54):
Put out enough manpower to shut that down. This is
a battle that we win on multiple friends. That includes
you know, that includes having that can include having physical
presence in the forest and preventing machinery from coming in,
but that also includes acts of sabotage, making sure that
(49:14):
contractors who are signed on the cop city do not
feel comfortable and do not feel safe signing on to
this project, and making this economically impossible for the city
to continue doing. As far as it being like a
new strategy, I don't know if it would be new,
as we've already seen you know, equipment spontaneously combussd and
(49:36):
such things. But I do think this marks a point
and potentially like the frequency of these things happening, and
also a necessary.
Speaker 9 (49:46):
I think evaluating of where we are now.
Speaker 7 (49:48):
And thinking realistically about what our next steps are to
make this an untenable situation for this city.
Speaker 10 (49:54):
To continue prosecuting well. One evolution that I see happening
is a consensus amongst long term organizers in Atlanta that
we want as many people coming here to participate as possible,
and also that I think one change is being less
picky in who we invite to participate and encouraging liberals
(50:15):
and moderates to be a part of this. They've always
been a part of it, but really am emphasizing that
side of the movement more.
Speaker 1 (50:25):
Back in the Defend the Atlanta Forest episodes from last May,
I talked about the shack model, the aim of which
is to make construction economically untenable by maintaining a presence
in the forest, sabotaging work, and targeting specific subcontractors locally
and elsewhere. In addition to contractors, corporate funders affiliated with
(50:46):
the APF can also be targeted to disincentivize affiliation with
the project. Solidarity actions targeting Atlanta Police Foundation contributors have
been happening nationwide. As mentioned at the top of the
up episode, A Week of solidarity is coming up on
February nineteenth, and Stopcopcitysolidarity dot org has many resources. In
(51:08):
the past, actions have included everything from office protests, divestment campaigns, vandalism,
and actions by workers within these companies to pressure them
into cutting ties. No action is too small or too ambitious.
In analysis on tactics published recently on its going down.
(51:29):
Said this regarding the targeting of Copcity investors. Quote. In
other campaigns, banks like Wells Fargo had been forced to
divest from police and prison expansion, but these efforts often
take years and lots of resources. Atlanta Police Foundation supporters
like public universities Georgia State University, Georgia Tech, or Emory
(51:52):
University could be lower hanging fruit. Comrades should identify which
COP City funders are most vulnerable, pressure where potential allies
like student groups and unions are positioned, and share this
info and synchronize actions. Unquote. Bureaucratic red tape can also
be effective in delaying progress. Ongoing zoning appeals could result
(52:15):
in an official stop work order, but it remains unseen
if such an order will even be followed, as currently
laws around zoning appeals are being ignored by the contractors
and the Atlanta Police Foundation. Tortigita had spoken of a
theory of THEIRS concerning the potential for intense police repression
(52:36):
and how the aftermath of that might play out. Quote.
They could come in and completely destroy the place, raise it,
arrest everybody they could find, kill anybody who resists arrest.
They could do that and then days later there would
be a shitload of people back here. For every head
(52:57):
they cut off, there would be more who would come
back to avenge the arrested, to avenge the Torte did
not finish that sentence, But resuming, what I'm saying is
if they do a huge crackdown and completely try to
crush the movement, they'll succeed at hurting some people, they'll
succeed at destroying some infrastructure, but they're not going to
(53:19):
succeed at stopping the movement. That's just going to strengthen
the movement. It will draw a lot of attention to
the movement. If enough people decide to do this, with
nonviolent action, you can overwhelm the infrastructure of the state.
That's something they fear more than violence in the streets,
because violence in the streets they'll win. They have the
(53:39):
guns for it, we don't unquote. No matter how the
movement continues, the weight of Torte's absence will be felt
as long as this fight carries on.
Speaker 6 (53:53):
It's such a huge loss. But as we keep thinking about,
you know, WWTD, what would Torte do. It's continue to
support those projects, It's continue to uplift the spaces and
groups that are supporting the most vulnerable amongst us and
uplifting their voices, uplifting their safety, and they are going
to continue to be trainings offered, training specifically for folks
who are marginalized and afraid of gun violence and want
(54:15):
to know how to be able to protect themselves and
protect their friends. This came about specifically in the wake
of the shooting at the gay bar. I guess a
few months ago now, Jesus, And that was something that
Tort was helping organize. So, yeah, we're gonna we're gonna
keep doing that work.
Speaker 1 (54:33):
How do you think you're going to like continue on
without without tour there? Now?
Speaker 3 (54:39):
You know, I think they they set me up the
hardest thing to navigate, like, Okay, what can I do?
Where can I fit in? Like short of you know,
living in the forest, And I think with just like
the canvassing, I feel like I've really figured out the
ways I can you know, my place in enough to
(55:01):
keep me busy.
Speaker 1 (55:02):
Was Tort kind of very instrumental to having you help
figure out like your role in this.
Speaker 3 (55:08):
I mean honestly, I would just like spitball, you know,
an idea and they'd be like yeah, you should do that,
or we would like yeah, that'd be sick. And that
gave me the confidence to be like okay. And also
like I think this movement is interesting because it's totally
different from any other organization or anything I've done in that, like,
(55:30):
if you want to volunteer in any other thing, like
you know, you make a graphic and you check it
and you send it to someone and get it approved,
you know. And just like the kind of deconstructing that
thinking was like, I mean, tort was really instrumental in that,
and it can be like difficult to navigate, but really
(55:50):
just walking all that back and being like if you
want to like you know, canvas your neighbors, like.
Speaker 8 (55:56):
You, just do it.
Speaker 1 (55:57):
The Stop Coopsity movement has called for a fifth Week
of Action to be held on March fourth through March
eleventh in Atlanta, Georgia. They are asking all those opposed
to Copcity to come participate in a variety of events
and actions both in and out of the forest and
if you're able to bring a tent, if you're unable
(56:20):
to travel, there's still calls to support people in your
own community who might be able to do so. This
week of action will be a key moment in the
next phase of the fight to defend the forest.
Speaker 10 (56:33):
I want people to know that being in the woods,
even if just for a few days, will transform you
in unexpected and delightful ways. And that's something that we
witnessed with Tort. Tort lived in the woods for less
than a year, and they transformed and blossomed into their
purpose in unexpected, in beautiful ways. And so if you
(56:55):
have the opportunity to come and spend any amount of
time in these woods, I encourage you to do so,
because I think that you'll find that it will nourish
you and aid in your growth as a human.
Speaker 1 (57:07):
The police have not succeeded in scaring everybody out of
the forest. Wilani People's Park is still legally required to
operate as a public park. Last month I saw regular
people jogging the trails. People still come every day. The
movement has only grown despite the repression, and now force
defenders in Atlanta are urging people everywhere to organize for
(57:30):
the upcoming mass convergence. A large list of resources and
movement websites I'll be putting in the description for people
to learn more and stay up to date with information
regarding the Week of Action. I'll end this series by
reading from a defend the Forest poster that I saw
around Atlanta. Quote, it is your mission to stop Copcity
(57:54):
by all of the means at your disposal, without hesitation.
Defend the forest from destruction, the city from commercialization, the
future from ruin, the imagination from conquest, and the heart
from resignation. Do not wait for further instruction. Reality is
(58:15):
the battlefield.
Speaker 11 (58:16):
Yeah, the rain on leaves tickling the earliest of instruments.
The melody we mimicking is the sound of wind whistling,
lying before the safety, and channing under the stars. Camped
underbre canopy, she sang own song, and she was far
from silent, no virus of violence with the fragrance of
her flowers that continued to invite us of medicine materials
(58:37):
are vitamins and minerals and all that is essential, which
just grew right beside us, and tics of starting fighting
over the gifts that she provide us, scorching over every
soil that all of us derived from. And when empires
learning came with stand fire, we returned to the land
where our ancestors rain Dance were all her creatures. We
still bear her features. The one and only reason all
(58:58):
living things is breathing. The cities deceive and leave, Go
see the dark. Jong Go be among the lungs of
mother Art could.
Speaker 7 (59:07):
Voice Yeah.
Speaker 10 (59:25):
Down, Shut him down.
Speaker 7 (59:32):
It was a forest.
Speaker 1 (59:35):
Music by the narcissist Cookbook and Propaganda. It could Happen
here as a production of cool Zone Media.
Speaker 2 (59:41):
For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
cool zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Speaker 1 (59:50):
You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated
monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources.
Speaker 2 (59:56):
Thanks for listening.
It Could Happen Here News
Hosts And Creators
Robert Evans
Garrison Davis
James Stout
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