Tear It Up & Fighting Back for Trans Lives

We chat with Kat and Ada-Rhodes from Tear It Up to discuss taking the fight for Trans lives into the streets and the struggle to make trans pain visible.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Do do do the thing. The thing, it's could happen here
a podcast. No, it's it's it's your trying to happen,
isn't it. They're really it's doing its best. You know,
they're really going for us. What is you know that
that thing by Yates, some great beasts slouching to be born,
Time of Monsters, all that good stuff. That's what's going

(00:27):
on here with it could happen here. It's the podcast Garrison. Hi,
how are we doing? So? We're talking about the still
ongoing and probably well seemingly never ending. Hopefully it will
end eventually. Uh, the hold up on that one, Garrison,

(00:50):
the escalating war on trusts people of Yeah, and uh,
we've we've brought on some some people who have been
working to organize again to the the kind of wave
of bills and rhetoric and legislation targeting trans healthcare, targeting
the just existence of trans people in general. We're talking

(01:11):
to cat and Ada Roads from Tear it Up, a
new newer organization, uh, dedicated to specifically specifically fighting against
these these new bills. Hello, hey friends, Yes, thank you
so much. Um, we've been we we've been we've been

(01:32):
talking for a bit because of how these bills have
been also a thing for a bit. And uh we
initially met up for trans day visibility. Uh I tagged
along to go to a protest in Idaho. Um, and
then we we got on on trans day visibility. We
we we we cooked up, cooked up plans to sit

(01:56):
down and have this chat. So it is it. It
is a little bit late, but it's it doesn't Maybe
we can have more than one day. Maybe that's a
good idea. Well, we're not getting remembrance too, so yeah,
well hopefully we can have more than two days and
one of them not be just sad um. Yeah, probably too,
because you know they're still attacking. Oh did they not?

(02:19):
Did they not stop? Nope? Nope. Our visibility did not,
in fact scare them back into their cave. All right,
this is why we need a trans day of one
free murder. I love this plane. A few problems. Well
that's a that's a great note to uh. I mean, look,

(02:40):
Caitlyn Jenner already used hers. She's just christ it's going
to be my contribution for the day. Wow, this is
this is gonna really really convince all of the all
of the on the edge libs who are somehow listening
to this trying to find a recipe. They thought it

(03:08):
was tear like a scale and they were like, I
was trying to work my baking scale. What if I
could measure of lentils and then arm all your local
trans women. I would like to make a very very
trans cooking video in the style of David Lynch's keen
my video of but that is that is a deep

(03:29):
cut for all of the lynch heads out there, as
Lynch fans called themselves. Anyway, we're talking about all of
all of all the bills talking about um, all of
the rhetoric that we've seen been specifically increasing the past,
like the past week as of recording broad past, you know,
maybe a week or two as of time of release
for they're like they're they're really going for it, for

(03:52):
trying to get people to do like just violence against
people who don't look like how they want them to look.
And that see, that's basically what they're trying to do.
And we we'renna, we'renna talking. We're talking a variety of
topics between we're gonna talk. We're gonna unfortunately discuss like
the groomer thing. We'll talk about all the bills that
have and haven't passed in different ways that we can

(04:14):
kind of stand up against this this this thing that's
really trying to take take a hold. Um, I guess
I would like to start by discussing the origin of
of of Tear it Up and like, how you know
what what happened to I mean, obviously we know what
happened to cause this distuct, to cause this thing to
be prompted, but yeah, what was what was like the
specific process of being like okay, it's it's all these

(04:36):
things are happening. Let's actually get a group of people
together to organize this thing across the country. Yeah, um,
I guess I can talk about that. So Tear it
Up actually group pretty directly out of a previous group
called TROT and Texas, which is the trans Resistance of Texas,

(04:57):
which started last year during their legislative session, um, and
then really started to grow during the special sessions in
response to this constant line of attack and realizing that
the techniques and the strategy is being employed by a
lot of the existing more liberal leaning groups were really

(05:19):
focused on like back room conversations and deals and using
like procedure to defeat things instead of actually like mobilizing
people against anti trans state violence. Um and uh. From
there we started to adopt things like louder, more obnoxious protests,
a lot of stickering, firing posters. Um. And then this year,

(05:46):
I so, I originally started TROT, but I moved across
the country and I was like, wow, ship, things are
just getting worse everywhere. Um, and I have a lot
of friends all over the country, from living in Portland
and New York and Texas and Colorado now the Midwest,
and reached out to sort of pull together a bunch
of humans that I knew would be willing to fight

(06:07):
back and to try and experiment with methods that we
can pick up from our predecessors, like act up and
bring more attention and mobilize people more towards taking direct
action instead of relying on these back room lobbying groups
I don't think really give a funk about trans people,

(06:27):
but love to use attacks on us to raise money. Yeah. Yeah,
I mean there's a number of number of examples we
could point to, but I think we could be more
productive and just talk about you guys instead of yeah.
So yeah, I really the transnational thing is really interesting

(06:48):
point how it's like, I know, for trans Day visibility,
there was there was an organized die ins and protests
all across the country to happen at the same day. Obviously,
Um there was one night of which I was lucky
enough to join in on. UM. And yeah, but there
was there was, there was a lot of them, and

(07:10):
I guess, yeah, it's on on the lead up to
like as as all of these bills are escalating. Um.
And then there was the whole there was the whole
um wave of organizing against trans people for the so
called like the Transition Day, which is really unfortunate because
there actually it would be a great discussion to be
had there on people who choose to not continue on

(07:31):
with transition, but it's been so used by turfs and
the gender critical movement that it's now just like it's
just it's just another day for more transphobia. Just really unfortunate. UM.
But we had that happening at the same time as
all of all of these bills, and then we're like, okay,
so what what what what was what was kind of
the stuff that prompted all of the guy ins And

(07:52):
how are you like, um talking with people in all
the in all the different states to kind of organize
this thing together, but still also like separately for each location.
One of the points that I like to come back to,
like we're going to talk a little bit more about
the details of the you know, some some of the
specific legislation that has that hassessed land law and some
of the other legislation that has not been able to

(08:13):
pass into law. Um. And you know, we're we're drawing
a contrast between ourselves and some of Tear it Up
is drawing a contrast between itself and some of these
more you know, institutionalist liberal organizations. Um. Not because that
they not because they can't succeed in their stated goals. Sometimes, right,
like the A c L you will sue on some
of these things of those lawsuits, maybe maybe something worth celebrating.

(08:38):
What's happening in Texas right now is a great example
of that. But that said, right, so, like we we
can acknowledge that these that these more institutionalist tactics can
can lead to, you know, like it's a better outcome
that these laws do not succeed obviously, Um. But there's
the impacts of this legislation and the discussion around this
legislation is so much bigger and so much more found

(09:00):
than any of these individual laws. You know, is specifically
looking at them, um in terms of their like material
impact in people's lives, which are already abysmally fucking awful.
But like the what the place that teared up is
looking to kind of champion is but kind of hell
raising that like enables us to empower each other, that

(09:25):
enables us to be visible in a way that shows
people on the ground all across the country that like
that we are not just a a minority to be
destroyed and ignored. That we're going to fight for ourselves.
We're going to fight for each other. We're gonna fight
for our kids, we're gonna fight for our families, and
we're going to fight for our rights, and we're gonna

(09:47):
do it loud and as ugly as we need to
in order to make sure that trans pain is visible. Yeah,
And building on that, um that when we look at
the start of last month March or I guess late February, UM,

(10:08):
I think Texas was really kind of the flash point
and a lot of the country on this where we
had a lot of these bills sort of boiling. UM.
I believe they are around seven dy active at that point.
Um we're now down to like the high sixties, so
that's better. But that was really where stuff started to

(10:29):
boil over on this and we looked around and saw
that the fight needed to focus on trans survival more
than just the bills. And the bills are important to
defeat because there things trying to exterminate us. There's things
that are trying to take families apart, to take away

(10:50):
the things that are helping people stay alive, and to
remove trans people from accessing public life, and that's going
to really ruin a lot of humans. But we need
to not just look at that individual fight and remember
we're fighting for survival and we're fighting for each other
and trans people as a community. We've always had to

(11:11):
kind of rely on each other via various means, be
at like Susan's place or like go back to like Transvestia,
even and like these systems that weren't necessarily always and
these forms of communication that weren't always focused on um
necessarily legal winds in the more traditional sense, and more

(11:32):
just like forming community, even if those communities weren't necessarily great.
In the case of like Transvestia and like some of
those much more, um, respectable leaning groups. Could you a
little talk a little bit about what Transvestia and Susan's
place work, because I'm gonna guess a lot of people
listening are not going to be super familiar with that history.
I kind of am only casually heard anything about it. Yeah,

(11:56):
so I'm a bit of a queer history nerd um,
and you could heard a lot about this. Actually I
have a can I plug my podcast? What we would
like to do is provide people with an ability to
learn more about this kind of stuff. So yeah, please Yeah.
So I'm part of the totally trans podcast network. Um
you can pronounce some parrot twitter at like totally TransPod. Um.

(12:19):
But we talked a lot about trans and queer history
through the lens of like looking at it through pop
culture and reading stuff into like The Little Mermaid and things. Um.
So we go in a lot about Virginia Prince and
transvestian there because I'm kind of obsessed with this human
from the nineteen sixties who is like the first Twitter
trans girl. Um. She was very problematic, super racist and classist,

(12:43):
and her argument was she led to a lot of
twentieth century confusion by saying, uh that there's like heterosexual transvestites,
which are what we would now just call like trans lesbians,
and then like the homosexual trans sexual, which is now
what we would call straight trans folks, and that the
homosexual transsexuals are bad and should be shunned, but the

(13:07):
heterosexual transvestite should maintain all of her previous privileges. Uh,
And she put out this magazine called Transvestia. She famously
also got in trouble for sending nudes in the mail
to another trans girl across the country. Um. Yeah, fascinating
historical figure who kind of the curve historically in terms

(13:28):
of sending nudes. That's that's groundbreaking with stuff. But Transvestia though,
did have this big cultural impact on sort of being
an early trans zine. Shortly after it, we start to
see Drag, which um was much more focused on like
the homosexual trans sexual and more like sexually liberated takes

(13:51):
through like the seventies, and then later um my favorite
scene like gender Trash from how which uh was out
of Toronto and like the nineties and was very confrontational
about trans rights. So we sort of exist in this
larger history where we're looking at how trans community has
survived informed and learning from things like star UM, which

(14:16):
was the Street Transvestitate Action Revolutionaries UM out of New
York with Marcia P. Johnson and Sylvia Rivera, as well
as um act up and HIV activism. And we're trying
to take what we can learn from our ancestors and
apply it to our current survival and play you with
it a little bit and update some of their tactics

(14:37):
because I don't think traditional non violent protests the way
it existed in the past gets attention anymore. UM, I
think when you figure out ways to be louder about it.
And I'm a I'm personally a devout pacivist. Other people aren't,
and that's a okay. Um, I'm a good Quaker girl.

(14:57):
But um, we need to be seen. We need our
lives to be seen, and we know our value as
humans to be seen so that we can love ourselves
and each other enough to survive this horrible ship that's
going to continue happening to us over the next couple
of years. Yeah, I'm wanna big back on that with
with one thought that, um, we're talking about this sort

(15:20):
of like this history of trans people drawing together to
take care of each other, and you know, I'm just
thinking about how today, Uh, Marjorie Taylor Green releases a
video that, amongst a bunch of other just like terrifying,
awful and occasionally super funny in its incredible stupidity. Um

(15:40):
things that she's claiming in this video or that like
trans people are basically like the you know, the barbarian
hordes that have come to destroy Western civilization. And she's
you know, she says with a straight face, like, you know,
the late Rome and modern America are very similar of
us rely heavily on Verrangian mercenaries in order to maintain

(16:03):
the sanctity of our borders. I always wanted to be
a wizard, but I guess I'm a barbarian. But I
bring that up because there is this impression of trans
power that like trans people, that is a result of
our increased visibility, you know, like what the media called
the transgender tipping point, because suddenly people were like, oh,
I guess Liver and Cox gets to exist. But like, uh,

(16:26):
with this increased visibility is this impression that we have
this like incredible magical cosmic powers to seduce your people
and ruin your civilization or whatever. And like actually, like
when I so I came out in two four, three five,
and like I never imagined a world where we could
even get healthcare covered when I was, like I was

(16:47):
like a kid organizing with Camp trans out in the
woods of Michigan, and like I knew people who got
orchiectomys in Barns. I every single trans woman, I knew
everything that they knew about how to like get hormones
and like manage their own transition and like Endercrian system

(17:08):
they learned from message boards. It was the only collective
knowledge in existence that was like accessible to people. Because
if you went to your doctor, unless you lived in
San Francisco or New York and we're particularly well connected,
the response you were going to get is, I don't know,
are you a demon? Right? Yeah? No, absolutely that That's

(17:28):
the one thing I found it um really insightful talking
to the older trans people that I know, because I'm like,
you know about Jim gen Z gender queer person on hormones,
And it's very different because when when when I've been
talking to the my my transgender friends who are older,
It's like, yeah, all of these bills are just are
a reaction to the increased visibility and increased well being

(17:51):
of trans people. Right, it's putting, it's putting things that
used to be kind of just like unspoken or like
obvious bigotry, it's putting now that that's actually progressed thing.
It's now putting that that old bigotry into actual law
because they're like, oh no, we don't want things to
progress further. So it's a it's a purposeful sliding back. Um.
So it's just like for a lot of people who
are older, it doesn't even seem that new. It's just

(18:12):
seemed to be. It's it's resurfacing. The things that were
used to be normalized are now becoming you know, are
becoming more obviously bigoted. But they're putting that bigotry into
actual law. Um. And that's the Yeah, that's the kind
of interesting point is because for there's a whole bunch
of people who believe that like the transgenderisms and the
gender ideology is like a point of power. It's like

(18:35):
because it's affiliated with the left, um, and the left
is seen as like the power. It's it's then like
therefore you're actually punching up on it, which is of
course entirely backwards like that, none of that. If you
have any political analysis, you'll you'll know like, oh, that's
not how anything works. But yeah, these people in their minds,
they think they're actually pushing up against like the like

(18:57):
the powerful forces of transgenderism. You're like, no, we're just
like pugs who are poor, who are trying to who
are trying to get our homeown injections like leave us alone.
I can't remember. It was like Tom Cotton or Matt Gates,
yea one of those guys, one of the Pentagone guys, right,
being like yelling at him because you know, our military

(19:20):
is being destroyed because somebody put the class about like
respecting someone's pronouns and the guy's responses like we can
obliterate any target on the entire planet with no effort.
Like what the are you talking about? There's there's that
great there's that hortable, great tweet about the person that
runs that four Chune trans account. Who's who is who

(19:42):
is like this this trends person who is like a
war criminal because they sell weapons. It was, it was,
it was a wonderful tweet for a few days ago.
I mean one of I mean famously a lot of
companies in the arms industry like Raytheon have a great
reputation for hiring trans people because all Raytheon cares about
is you can go to missile guidance chip. That's all

(20:03):
that matters to Ray Theon. They're they're they're very woke. Yeah,
but it is, it is. It is intriguing to watch
these people really justify their transphobia as a form of
fighting against the system because they have somehow affiliated of
being trans with the Democratic Party. Therefore it's affiliated with
the establishment. Therefore it's actually this force of power, which

(20:25):
none none of that's, none of that's true. But that
propaganda is showing to be very effective. But people seem
really convinced by that because it's it's it's a story
that's easy to glom onto. And as long as we
have a story that we can glom onto, then it
doesn't matter what's true or not. It's it's all of
the stories are what's actually true. Um So, yeah, that
is an intriguing, an intriguing point in terms of how, yeah,

(20:48):
how how it's how stuff has changed from like transphobia
ten years ago for the transphobia now, how that's resurfacing
some things that used to be they used to just
take shape in a slightly different form. Yeah. Well, and
so Cat's experiences in two thousand and four if you
pass forward a decade, because I'm a little younger than Cat,

(21:12):
but not a lot younger than Cat. Um around like
when I was trying to get on hormones, we also
had like r l E. The kiddos these days know
what that was the real So it's real life experience, yeah, um,
which is basically having to socially transition and come out

(21:34):
and do all of this under the care of a
therapist and a physician for between six months and a
couple of years before they'll allow you to access hormones. Um.
And uh. That was kind of like the stepping stone
between the previous experiments where it was just like d
I Y or nothing, um what was or impossible gatekeeping

(21:58):
and then now where there's like more informth incentence model
which is what I which is what I do now?
Yeah yeah um. And a lot of these laws are
just kind of reiterating that weight that comes from a
really like flawed please like that weight didn't in any
way benefit anyone is really it's just torturing people and

(22:20):
trying to kind of like, um like beat the traine
out of you, uh, make you go to the mall
presenting as a woman while you feel incredibly awkward and
get yelled at by some guy for like trying to
buy shoes and he's like yeah, right, yeah, Like if
if you're a nine year old who is experiencing precocious puberty,

(22:41):
it is completely acceptable and no one is going to
question whether or not, um, you know, prescribing puberty blockers
to just make make make like to make it so
that you can experience puberty at it what feels like
a more appropriate developmental age. Uh sis. People, politicians, the
right wing generally people agree that that is an acceptable practice.

(23:04):
But to use that same practice in order to help
a trans child not die, that is a sin against
God and leading to the decline of Western civilization. We
wish whatever whatever. People are like, yeah, like trans people
are are leading into this degeneracy that's going to bring
down Western civilization. You're like, oh, wow, that's sure. It

(23:27):
does sound cool for me. Hormones worked so quickly, and
I would having to live through like a year of
trying to present in specific ways, well not on hormones.

(23:50):
Sounds like complete hell, because it is. I was very
surprised at how fast even like mindset things changed. Um
how it is like they're very like hormon it's are
very useful and very interesting and how they and how
they affect changes and being forced to I guess as
the term now is like boy moting or girl moting.
This is this is this is this is what the

(24:10):
zoomer the Zoomer kids call whenever they have to like
like almost like code switch gender. Um, having having to
like present in the way that you want to without
these systems of hormones for a while, to even be
allowed to have hormones as mi a zoomer now sounds
like horrible. It's literally dangerous, like ye, actually an incredibly

(24:31):
dangerous thing to put people like experience, to put people into.
And I think that like that kind of gate keeping. Uh,
you start looking at it through a more intersectional lens
and like, who is it hurting the most? It's hurting
people who don't have a ship ton of money to
like read get an entirely new wardrobe that people who, um,
you know, people of color who are more likely to

(24:52):
be targets of violence if they're more obviously visible and
read as trans yep. Well, and it really artificially finished
the number of trans people and just gender variants in general. Um.
Something that's been really interesting to watch is someone who
kind of went into the pandemic as like a trans

(25:13):
elder given a lot of community work. Is the core
in trans as a thing and how much we give
everyone an opportunity to like explore themselves and be introspective
for a year, and how many people are like, fuck,
I'm a girl, um or like I'm no gender or
I'm every gender and all of these incredibly beautiful forms

(25:34):
of exploration that couldn't have happened if they had to
go through that in like their normal source of situations,
if you just gave them an excuse to like do
their own thing for six months. And um yeah, r
l E was a good way to keep people from
being able to explore. And it's just one way that
trans people's bodily autonomy is attacked. And that's what a

(25:56):
lot of these bills come down to as well. Is
it's the same thing as like anti abortion or anti
birth control staff. It's all just about reducing people's bodily autonomy.
I mean yeah, because like if I had to quote
unquote live as a girl for a year, I would
have just never gotten hormones because I don't want to
live as your girl. Like, that's not that's not what
that's not what I want to even do. And yeah,

(26:17):
having having all of that gate keeping, which is part
part of part of part of what they're trying to do.
Because I mean, as much as as much as they
hate people who like are you know, are find more
comfort inside the inside the more like typical gender rules,
they also really don't like the people who enjoy being
more like over gender freaks, um, and like like outside

(26:38):
of that, it's like so of course they're going to
try to clamp down on any anything it's worth noting
to just the like, there's there are a few different
camps um in in in the sort of right wing
response to trans people. UM. One of the things that
I've learned over the years kind of looking at looking
at what the all right is up to. Um. You
know what originally I really like of the whole Republican Party,

(27:01):
the whole right wing is like a single cohesive ideological unit.
It seemed like they were disabled to get everyone on
the same page and then go at something and if
you look closely, you realize, actually, it's this huge, ever
evolving coalition of people who mostly hate each other and
if you're if you're clever, you can break people off
and disrupt things. Um, there's different there's different movements, different

(27:23):
thoughts inside of the way that people are approaching this.
And you have a lot of politicians who they probably
never met a trans person, They certainly probably don't have
any gay friends. They're just some random suburbanite motherfucker's who
know that sacrificing trans kids on the altar of political
convenience will score them points with a radicalized base of bigots. Um,

(27:46):
so those people are just cynically hurting trans people because
it will score them some you know, pretend points that
will lead to real structural power. But there is also
the evangelical community, and a huge amount of the the
deepest and scariest fervor against trans people comes out of
the evangelical community. I was raised vaguely evangelical, and yeah,

(28:09):
and like when I came out, I was definitely told
I was going to hell. Like if you look at
the you look at the where this a lot of
the incredibly incredibly like eliminationist rhetoric is coming from and
that's coming from the evangelical community who are like, it's
not just that I think that From a policy perspective,
this is like we need to like retool how we're
doing trans healthcare something, because if people wanted to have

(28:31):
conversations about how to make the best possible systems, like
we want to have that conversation, we can we can
agree to we can disagree about policy, but their policy
is literally trans people are an army of demons who
have come to win souls for Satan, and I'm like,
I'm just trying to refill my prescription fun, like we

(28:52):
need the funk alone. It also creates its really interesting
looping effect of of politicians who get into antiach friends
and like like all of this kind of like anti
gay stuff to specifically win elections. Right. We even saw
this like Greg Abbott doing his um like letters about
about investigating parents of trans kids specifically around his primary election. Like,

(29:14):
so people definitely do are still very much getting into
this specifically to win elections because they know it's a
point that riles up the base. But then you also
have people because that's been going on for so long
you have people who are maybe not necessarily super evangelical, um,
but who grew up around this kind of culture of
politicians need to say these things, who are now getting again.

(29:34):
Even if politicians didn't really fully agree with it, they
they needed to do it to get support. But you
have people who grew up around that and went into
politics around that who are now just do that sincerely
because because it was what they were exposed to previously.
Now we have people like that who are trying to
run for office for the first time who are just
that extreme. Um. I think that's even a bit of
what the Marjorie Taylor Green thing is is like someone

(29:57):
who was exposed to extremist stuff online who is now
running for office herself and is completely sincere about all
the stuff she's doing, Like she she is a true
believer in the way that some other people like Matt
Gates may not even be a true believer. He might
just be doing it because it's popular. But you also
have the people who are just like fully fully believe
it because it's it's it's influenced culture long enough that

(30:18):
it's now a full loop of sincerity. Well, and then specifically,
the perception of trans people within the religious rights specifically,
is actually shifted so much and last decade. I guess
now I'm trying to think how old I am. Um,
because I was a student at Baylor University. Oh okay, yeah, okay, cool, cool, Yeah,

(30:43):
I have I have, I have some family who used
to work at Baylor. Oh boy, I have spent a
lot of time in and around there, the top part
of the world. Um uh yeah, sick um for all
of the queer asked Baylor bears out there. But I
became a student and I graduated, and being queer was

(31:04):
against the rules the whole time I was there. Despite me,
we came out and started a student group my freshman year. Um.
But I had to face this really weird decision because
in high school I had a lot of gender stuff
going on, a lot of sexuality stuff going on, and
I described myself as like a queer sexual because I'm like,
I'm still figuring it out. Sometimes I'm a girl, sometimes

(31:26):
I'm a boy. I don't know, I'll sort this out
in my twenties. And then I go to college where
I thought I'd sorted out, and I was faced with
this thing like you can neither be out as queer
and but you have to like present as like as
sis gay man, or you can transition, which will be
totally acceptable within this culture, but you have to go
deep stealth and um, you'll just show up next year

(31:47):
as a girl and everyone will be fine with that
and we'll all pretend it didn't happen and that you've
always been a girl. Um, and that was like the
standard and a lot of the Baylor's very Upper Crest religious, right,
like very privileged group of people. But was you just
kind of go away and we can just for a

(32:08):
few months and we just pretend this is how it
always was. And now it's much more um inquisitional is
the wrong word. But they it's like hunting trans people down, uh,
in a much more aggressive way where they can't just
kind of be like, well, God doesn't make trash and

(32:30):
instead they're like, oh, God connects you to hell just
very directly, and it's getting worse, and um, that's why
tear it up is really important that we like start
now instead of like next fall, because it's gonna be
horrible next fall. In the spring after that could be

(32:52):
it's gonna be real grim. I love to talk more
about like a tear it up and how you approach
organizing UM and what you're kind of hoping to both
expand into and the various actions that you have done

(33:13):
in the past few weeks. So the first tear it
up action officially was the three thirteen rally in Austin, Texas.
That was the Transcrids Cry for Help rally UM, where
we had a bunch of people and the steps of
the Governor's mansion, UM speaking and getting loud and UM.

(33:34):
We had a few hundred people show up and not
really mobilized. A lot of folks in Texas that I
know got activated from that and are still going. But
while I was running and organizing that with trot Um
and actually flew down to Texas from Nebraska to do that, UM,
the various humans I'd reached out to and I was

(33:55):
just like, I don't have time to explain directions right now.
We need to organize the dying by the end of
the month. Here's here's what I have. I just kind
of threw it at them and UM, they all ran
with it. And I think that's UM the way that
we need to approach this right now, because we need

(34:16):
to build this big machine because they've been building the
machine against us for years. Um, and to build a
machine that can rival that, we kind of need to
be much more decentralized and much more agile about how
we grow and how we do these actions. Um, cat,
you are one of the first humans I reached out
to and I was like, yes, I would like to
make a big trouble. What was that like from your

(34:40):
side of things? Yeah? So I keep thinking about this
from the perspective of kind of my own political motivation.
So I've done various kinds of like lefty whatever organizing
for for most of my adult life. And um, in
the last like last I guess February and February or whatever. Um,
I think like probably be a lot of people, especially

(35:01):
a lot of trans people. I had like a couple
of week period of just like totally depressed, doom scrolling,
and then the invastion of Ukraine was happening, and it's
just like everything was bad all the time. Um it's
still feel still feels like everything is bad all the time.
But um, I have stuff to do thanks to uh
get a roads over here. UM. So what it I so?

(35:22):
Like I said, I grew up, Um, I was a
child of the nineties. I grew up in a world
that I knew was utterly hostile to my existence. I
knew that trans people were like that to be trans
was something deeply shameful and a secret that I either
needed to die with or that if I came out
it would like ruin my life of all of my family, um,

(35:43):
until I eventually, you know, I managed to not die
all the way until eighteen came out, and then I
found a bunch of incredible queer people and uh have
Um it's been alive since then. But I I was
shaped by that experience, by the experience of needing to
survive knowing that I had this secret all you know,
I knew and I knew in kindergarten. I like just

(36:05):
just new with total certainty. And I also knew that
it was evil and bad and that I should be ashamed. Um.
And there is a whole couple there's like generation, there's
like a whole generation of kids right now growing up
who have you know, come out who have been born
since two thousand fourteen and come out as tiny right,

(36:30):
So there's like a whole and then never mind like
kids weren't born before that, but who are in high
school now who are coming out and like they have
existed in a world where pop culture and the sort
of mass culture more generally speaking, has like there are
trans people on TV, and they're not just serial killers
or the murder victims in an SPU story. There's legitimate representation,

(36:53):
there is, you know, you have like the you have
people in national government and in state government explicit lead
defending trans people like they they have been enculturated to
this idea that they have some semblance of rights and
that civilization, that the civilization they live in doesn't want
to smite them out of existence. Um, and those kids

(37:15):
are watching this conversation shift and I don't know what
that's like, but I can tell you that I've been
motivated by anger to do a lot of things. And um,
I don't know that I've ever been quite as furious
in my life as I have been the last the
last couple of months, and so being drawn towards tear
it up? To me, is this opportunity to like, you know, uh,

(37:40):
I I love the Trevor Project. I'm really glad that
they exist. I'm really glad that they do the work
that they do. You know, like that there's all these
different organs who are putting out positive messaging, but it's
all pretty milk toast. You know, It's like trans people
are cool. Maybe we should Maybe we should give all
we should give all the tender cursive baseball bat. Maybe
that would be a more useful right and to be

(38:01):
space for. Like they're fucking trying to kill you, thirteen
year old, they are coming for you. This world is unsafe,
and I need you to know that you have somewhere
to run to, that there are adults in the world
who will keep you safe, who will show up for you,
who are going to go and raise a bunch of hell,
make a bunch of noise, do a graffiti, put up

(38:23):
some posters, go and you know, get ourselves in trouble
on the steps of the capitals all across the country.
So that those kids in high school right now who
are feeling like the entire fucking universe is dissolving around
them into a bottomless see of fear and hatred. But like,
there's other people out there. If you're in Idaho, if
you're if you were a kid who's growing up in

(38:43):
northern Idaho, like there's other people out there. You just
have to get free, and we're specifically so our first
actions we specifically target at these states that tend to
be ignored by um so like the mainstream liberal media.
I'm trying to say that without sounding like a whacka doodle,
but were fully past that foot great cool, I have

(39:07):
feel like a profit storial. We opened this show with
a joke about that's true. We're fine, that happened. I
don't know, yeah, um but yeah, like the mainstream liberal
media doesn't give a funk about Iowa or Idaho. And frankly,
I've since I've lived all over the country and been
involved in queer activism for like over a decade. I

(39:30):
have friends all over and a lot of the um
more higher up folks and established organs on the coasts
and in big cities. Look at what happens in like
Iowa and Idaho, in Texas and Florida, and they're like,
oh no, this is a sign of what's to come,
and not this affects a quarter of the country. It's
already happening. Yeah, it's happened. Yeah it's not it could

(39:53):
happen here, It's happened already, And fight for these kids
desperately because their lives are at risk so many ways.
Right now, they're legally imperiled. The things that we're giving
them hope for life are being taken away. And a
lot of these laws most affect the kids that have
support of families, but we need a fight for the

(40:13):
kids that don't too, and make sure that they know that,
like we see you in Iowa and we're gonna go
do something melodramatic and cover ourselves in fake blood and
lay on the steps of the capital in the in
the state that you live in so you can see that,
like your feelings are being externalized, and hopefully that'll move

(40:34):
you to knowing that like other people are going through
this too, and hopefully other people will see what's happening
and it will move them to action to protect those kids. Um.
And it will give you a space to start building
community and building connections for other transpeople and other people
in the area who want to help keep you alive exactly. Um.
And that's really the next step and tear it up

(40:57):
is this next month, I want to have us focus
a bit more on a little community building and community events,
which has always been a big part of my strategy
with previous organizing as big lab protests followed by a
pizza party UM or we did a great technic in
Austin after the legislative sessions last year where we had
a bunch of people show up and made a lot
of good connections. UM We had a lot of the

(41:19):
little trans kiddos there and some photos that were taken
there were then used as like the headline, like the
the cover photos for like all these articles about the
kids being attacked. Yeah. Yeah, I think that the we
we pulled off our sort of first coordinated national set
of actions, that the model that we're that we're looking

(41:40):
at is groups like act up so more of a
sort of decentralized national network of UM folks who are
all working together to be sort of power amplifiers to
like share resources, share share tools, make sure that you
know everyone has what they need and has backup in
case anything gets out of hand wherever they're whatever state
they're in, whatever city they're in. UM And that coalition

(42:04):
building or like the community building part is such a
such an incredibly important factor. Like I so I was coordinating,
I was working on the event to have happened in Boise,
and you know, one of the major things that I
that I ran into reaching out to all these different
organizations is like, I mean, they've been at war for
a long time and they have like there are literally

(42:26):
militia groups hunting anyone who shows up at a blm
rally in boise Um. When I talked to, you know,
some of the like executive directors of like LGBTQ oriented
nonprofits in boise they were like, Hey, I'm really it's
really cool that you're doing this, but I we cannot
send our kids. Were like, I we can't participate in

(42:49):
this because we don't know you and we don't know
what's going to happen. And this is like this you
need to understand that this scene is like not safe.
Totally fair. Yeah, so totally fair. It's like, think a
big part of this next step is deepening those connections,
you know, showing people that like, we will show up,
we are accountable, we are looking to be partners for

(43:11):
long term action, for long term struggle. And one of
the things that is really cool about Tear it Up
that I didn't expect because I am old, so my
networking has always been phone trees um and literally just
like calling people out and being like you call these
three people UM and getting people out for actions, uh,

(43:35):
for tear it up. We have these amazing humans at
building like online communities on Discord, which makes me feel
simultaneously like years old and also like the kids. They're
all right, they know that how to do the trouble UM,
and we're trying to not just build do this traditional
coalition building that I've been doing for a long time

(43:58):
and making all these connections, but trying to build not
just like a physical community, but an online community, to
stitch these physical communities together because if you're in like
middle of nowhere, Texas, you can see what's happening in Austin,
but you can't always like physically make it there. So
it's good to know that, like, these are my humans
and they're fighting for me, and I can be in

(44:19):
the loop and get involved UM. And our long term
strategy with that is to connect people like UM the
Trevor Project. I love a lot of the humans they're
actually and like trans Lifeline in these groups because they
UM and all these other like national groups that raise
a lot of money, but they're actually not allowed to

(44:39):
raise a lot of trouble because of like their tax
status and all these things is like, Uh, the HRC
like can't do a trouble because it'll look bad for them,
and they care about those sorts of things. But we
can connect those people with these young activists that want
to go stir up ship and cause trouble and need

(45:00):
to like let out that screaming um. And even if
we can't defeat the laws in the moment, letting out
that scream is a communal good. It lets people feel seen,
and it lets people know I need help right now,
and shouting and crying and a gnashing of teeth and
rending of hair and clothes is objectively good. Actually, we

(45:24):
need people to come together, and we need people to
see our suffering, and we need people to be moved
to loving each other and helping each other. And that's
um how, that's how will survive. Right if we achieve
nothing beyond Catharsis and we've achieved something. I loved your
point about the online community component of things, because I
feel like so much of trans focused online community is like, uh,

(45:47):
you know, do I look okay in this outfit? Or like, hey,
we're all fans of the same like the anime or something, right,
like if they're all, they're the very specific kind of projects,
and there there's not I don't feel like there's a
lot of spaces that are like, hey, this is like
the war room. Well, I mean not that we can't

(46:08):
talk about bullshit, but like the entire focus of this
space is to connect as many trans people as possible
so we can amplify our power together. Um, and you know,
begin to even remotely approximate the boogeyman that sucking. Marjorie
Taylor Green imagines us to be right well, and we

(46:29):
need to become like the trans and Sexual Menace, which
is another protest group that I love from the nineties
where they create this iconography around like, oh, we are
the trans sexual menace and then it's a bunch of
like very nice, like like like very like normal looking folks. Yeah.
But I think we need to reclaim that and taking
in another direction. And we need to not be menacing,

(46:52):
and you know, like we need to be a good menace.
We need to be a bit of an anti hero
for the trans community, and we need to do fucking
trouble and we need to cause problems for people. And frankly,
I think, um, too many politicians get to go to
bed at night, not listening to people call them motherfucker's
on a megaphone. And too many people get to have

(47:13):
a nice lunch at their favorite restaurant without that being
disrupted and having things shouted at them. I think we
need to become the menace that we need to be
to survive in this moment. I concur with this project,
and yes, I concur with this and UM enjoy enjoy

(47:35):
participating in things that lead to those outcomes because it
is it's a because they want us dead anyway, Like
that's that's that is, that is what they're doing, that's
what they're complacent with. UM. I think it is also
an important thing to note that, UM in terms of
like good news, like not all of these bills are
passing Like on on this show, we've talked a lot

(47:56):
about the bills that have passed. We have talked about
all the stuff that has been going on, but there
is not not not all of them, not all of
them are going through and that is an important thing
to talk about. It doesn't mean the fight's over because
they're gonna try again. UM. But that is the other
thing I think is worth is is worth mentioning and
states from you know, Florida to Idaho to Washington, Utah, Virginia,

(48:21):
like at least there is not there is stuff that
is getting blocked um or at least not going through.
And there's a lesson that needs to be learned from
how the right operates in this because what they did
for years was opposed equal rights, was supposed things in
a variety of ways socially and through legislation that failed,

(48:44):
and it was fail fail, fail, fail fail for a
long time until they started to succeed. And part of
why they succeeded is because they were continuously building a
wide ranging and powerful machine to push this stuff through,
learning from their fail years, grabbing more power, getting better
at messaging and like that. Ultimately, the same attitude needs

(49:06):
to be had, like when when one of these laws
gets struck down, it's not a sign that the fight's
been one. It's a sign um to keep pushing. Like
it's this kind of thing where you have to you
have to pay attention to the way they built this
over the course of really thirty or forty years um,
because it has to be done. Something a counter a counterweight,

(49:29):
a machine capable of of applying equal pressure in the
opposite direction has to be built, and it has to
be built very quickly well, and nine out of the
nine out of ten of these bills die and so
nearly two and seventy I think it's two and sixty
four is the actual account of how many anti trans
bills have been proposed in the last two years since
the last selection UH and only have become law. So

(49:53):
they're really just playing a numbers game, right, They're just
forcing it through UM and they're not going to stop.
And we in Texas it was so hard last year
because I remember the last day of the legislative session.
We were all there until midnight and cheered so hard
when it was done, and we're like this bilt can't
come back. And then we faced special session followed by

(50:17):
special sessions followed by special session where they're like, we
are pushing through this trans legislation and the war is
not gonna stop. We we we're maybe gonna We're gonna
win a lot of battles, We're gonna win the majority
of battles. But they're not playing it to win those
individual fights. They're playing to eventually exterminate us. And they're

(50:41):
really gaining a lot of ground and we're way behind
on building our machine to fight it. And this is
all happening in the context of, you know, a a
very very explicit mask off movement to essentially destroy American
democracy and replace it with Christian fascism, right, and we

(51:01):
are the scapeboa, We are the enemy that they are
currently identifying for elimination. Right. So like it's you know,
for them, they're like I can score some points if
I encourage this trans kid they killed themselves, right, Um.
And for us, it's like an existential threat that we
maybe watching the United States descend into, you know, an

(51:25):
irreversible chasm of authoritarianism and violence. Uh. And you know
that's going to be bad for trans people too. Yeah. Yeah,
very very understated. How can how can if people are
interested in tear it Up and what they're doing, how

(51:46):
can people find out more info online about how to
keep up with stuff and um and what what y'all do?
So I think the best place to, I guess get
little updates. Um, it's the Twitter, which is at tear
it Up Org on Twitter. Um. And then additionally we

(52:06):
have our website, uh, which is www dot tear it
Up dot org and yes, good um. And then if
you come and get involved, and uh, you can get
invite to our discord. We're trying to grow that out
a little slowly and stick with folks that we know

(52:28):
are getting involved in the fight while we sort of
build the initial foundation of this. But that's the place
to find us right now. Twitter, Instagram as well. We're
also Teared Up Teared Up Org on Instagram and have
a Facebook page. But who the fuck uses Facebook? I mean, actually,
so our Facebook. We won't be posting a lot of stuff,
but a lot of our events will go through Facebook

(52:50):
because in a lot of the Midwest and the South,
a lot of people still use Facebook, which is probably bad.
Turns out that's not helping I think, um, but those
are the places go find us, um and then come
get involved. We're gonna be doing a lot more. We've
sort of been on a break for a week because
we did of ship ton of events last month all

(53:13):
at once and kind of needed a week off. But
staring next week, we're gonna be posting a lot and
organizing and pulling together some community and social events and
some more protests. And even if you don't want to,
even if you don't want to join, join the organization. Specifically,
if you're a fist ally who's listening to this and
you're like this sucks, I hate it, I'd like to
do something. Um, we'll We're gonna have things like you know, postering,

(53:37):
like postering resources and stickers and all kinds of stuff
that you can that you can grab and like just
go paint the town. Yeah, let it. Let it be
known that trans people won't be a race, but we
are fighting back. We're a very pro graffiti organization. Um,
please bully your local politicians and uh sticker every service

(53:57):
surface you can get. Get some hate pens. I think
I think I'll do an upcoming episode on how to
make or how to do wheat pasting. Yeah, as as
as as some fun uh content for you, for you
fans of content out there. But yes, follow follow the
tear it Up account on the twitters. That's how I've

(54:19):
been mostly keeping up with it, besides just asking people
because I know who they are of but the Twitter
Twitter is definitely a good a good resource. Um. Yeah,
I guess any any kind of any other any other
thoughts or notes that she would like to to add
before we before we wrap up here, can I say
fun grag abbitt. Can we all just k ivy uh? Also,

(54:47):
um yeah, fun, lots of governors, a lot of the
governor's not most most stuff. I think the vast majority
of governors should go funk themselves and um I'll see
them in how Yeah yeah, um that's a good at all.
I'll plug your plug your history podcast because queer history

(55:08):
sounds like a great thing that people should learn more about. Yeah. Well,
so it's the Totally trans podcast network. We might also
come up as Totally Trans Searching for the trans Cannon. Uh.
We were originally just the one show where we talked
about pop culture and history. It was me and writer
Henry Jardina. And now we have a slate of shows

(55:31):
that we do all on the same feed. UM. One
that talks about comics, one that talks about history that
I love that the playwright Katie Coleman does UM called
Our Sacred History. And then we have we just started
the newest season of Totally Trans Searching for the Trans Canon,
where we're talking about finding lessons from history and queer

(55:52):
culture and pop culture. Mind yeah all right, yeah, uh,
buy some paint pens, uh, show up to actions if
you can, um and learn to make some trouble. Yeah. Also,
megaphones are only forty dollars from Harvard Freight, just saying

(56:13):
you can get really loud, really cheap. And it's generally
legal to shout at people from outside their homes, although
not not always. That can get you in some trouble,
but not check your local sound ordinances and bring a
volume meter and really just amplify yourself just to that
level and learn how to add an audio so you

(56:33):
can really just dial it in. Find the lawyer and
consult with them first. Yes. Also, personally, I would like
to say forced from all anti trans politicians who say
that you can be peer pressured into transitioning. Um. I
am personally trying to force from Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick.
It hasn't worked yet, but he's very insistent it will

(56:54):
work eventually. So I do feel like the right way
to pursue that is just by de regular lation and
then poisoning the water supply. Well, well, that doesn't for
us today. It could happen here as a production of
cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media,

(57:16):
visit our website cool zone media dot com, or check
us out on the I Heart radio app Apple podcasts,
or wherever you listen to podcasts, you can find sources
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Media dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.