April 27, 2023 • 44 mins
Mael and Agathe, two participants in France's latest wave of unrest share their experiences and talk about the future of the movement
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
It's been four months since French President Emmanuel Macron effectively
declared war on French society euphemistically called pension reforms. Macron's
proposal would increase the retirement age from sixty two to
sixty four, effectively robbing the working class of two years
of their lives. In January, French unions filled the streets
of Paris with trash. Now French workers build brick and
(00:29):
mortar barricades on highways and set branches on fire on
train tracks. Welcome to it could happen here. The escalation
from protest to uprising is in part a product of
how Macron forced the retirement age increase through a national
assembly he no longer controls without the ability to win
(00:50):
a vote. Macron's Prime Minister, Elizabeth Bourne, suddenly invoked Article
forty nine of the French Constitution, which allows the ruling
government to force there's a bill into law without a vote.
Mccron argues that because circumventing parliament to force legislation through
is legal, the move is democratic. Millions across France disagree.
(01:12):
We spoke to two French protesters, Mael, a student in Leone,
and a Gat, a union railway worker at a state
owned rail company about the movement. The two met through
a struggle committee designed to bring people from different backgrounds
and movements together to fight against mccron's reforms and four,
as Mael put it, victories for our class. A gat
(01:34):
had this to say about Macron's anti democratic sleight of hand.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
What they are using right now is a rhetorical trap
which consists of confusing democracy and a constitutionalism. I don't
know if I'm using the right word, but for instance,
(01:59):
you know that they maybe you know that to impose
this reform, they have been using an article which is
Article forty nine point three of our constitution, and they
say that, well, this article is in the constitution, we
are in a democracy, and therefore this article is democratic,
(02:23):
which is absolutely false. It's a fallacious reasoning. It is
not true. It's the forty nine point three is an
anti constitution. It is an anti democratic article of the constitution.
And this is what they have been trying to do lately,
(02:45):
to say to make us believe that everything that's been
happening is absolutely normal and implies with the democratic standards
of France, which is not true. Also, what they are
trying to do to disqualify any opposition from the left
(03:05):
wing is to say that the left wing party is
actually an extreme left wing party, which it is not.
And it's kind of they are trying to induce the
kind of history in all this and to radicalize what
(03:27):
is not. What we are asking for is simply for
them to to listen to what we, for once can
call the people. Generally, when you have a protest, it's
only a part of the population that disagrees with the
policy of the government. But this time, honestly, uh, there
(03:49):
are seven seven people out of ten who are who
disagree with this and uh, nine workers out of ten
who disagree with this reform. Honestly, I think we can
call our selves the people. And in a democracy, well,
what you do is listen to the people, not that
representatives and not the members of the government, but the
(04:11):
people in the fucking streets. I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
And and because they do not want to do that,
they try to say that we are radicals and that
we are supported by radical political parties. It's not true.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Yeah, it's it's very radious situation.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yeah, this is what I wanted to say about what
they're at their current strategy. Aside from the repression of
which we are going to talk in a few minutes.
This is what their strategy is.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Yeah, Like basically they confuse all of the forces on
the left together. They say that Milansia is funding the
Black Blog, you know, so it's things like that, the CGTS,
the fee, all of them, it's all the same, and
(05:08):
they all want the destruction of civilization. And I don't know.
That's the discourse on the far right.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yeah, babies, Yeah, that sounds like you're American, right too.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Yeah, and this is kind of linked to police violence,
this discourse. When you were talking about how they're saying
that the constitution is democratic and there's nothing you can
say even though well, the point of the constitution is
to bypass the parliament. I don't know that democratic. But yeah,
(05:47):
so when it comes to police violence, the reaction is
to say that the state holds the legitimate monopoly of violence,
so therefore they can represss how they want. That's literally
what they're saying right now, which is worrying.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
The French police have been incredibly violent in their campaign
to suppress the protests at an ecological action in Sanzoline
on March twenty fifth. Tens of thousands of activists were
met with helicopters, armored vehicles, and six thousand grenades, many
of which were the French police's new and incredibly dangerous
military grade GM two l CS gas grenades. One protester
(06:29):
was shot in the head with a tear gas grenade
fired by a grenade launcher mounted on an armored vehicle.
He remained in a coma fighting for his life for
an entire month. Earlier today, his parents' release a statement
saying that he has begun to wake up, but is
not fully conscious and his life remains in danger. The
day before, a special police motorcycle unit called Brav M,
(06:53):
created in twenty nineteen to suppress the Genejean with the
Yellow vest protests, was recorded threatening a group of random
people that had arrested for sitting in front of a
building from The Washington Post. The cop says, quote, You're
lucky to be sitting there now that we've arrested you.
I swear I'd have broken your legs. Literally. I can
tell you We've broken elbows and faces, but you I'd
(07:14):
have broken your legs, one officer says in the recording.
Limone reported two slapping sounds can be heard, the report says,
along with an officer saying, wipe that smile off your face.
Later in the clip, a police officer warns the young
people they have detained. Quote next time we come, you
won't be getting in the car to go to the
police station. You'll be getting in another thing called an
(07:34):
ambulance to go to the hospital. Paris police chief Laurette
Nuez said on Friday he was quote very shocked by
the audio clip. Mayel and a gat We're less shocked.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
This is not really a surprise, unfortunately, because well, our
lease is not as ah. No, it's problematic, but maybe
not as problematic as in the US. I'm sorry if
I'm wrong about that. But we also follow sometimes what
(08:10):
happens on the other side of the ocean. And uh,
but I must say that we we have had issues
of police murders on the street, like and police violence,
want and violence, and unfortunately that now it's not new
(08:34):
and there is a newspaper media parts who managed to
find a excerpt of I think it's a group on
Whatsapple whatever of policemen talking about race, war and uh
(08:55):
and all these kinds of things. And unfortunately we know
that there are such people in our police.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
So the police are they're kind of basically fascists, all
of them. Like they have like one of their unions
which called Alliance, and for the politics for the presidential elections,
they invited the right wing party who are basically only
(09:25):
people who talg with all about genocide. And then the
classic Mariine Japan and there the far right who's openly
calling for a civilizational war with Muslims. So that's the
(09:45):
police unions. And for a little bit of history on
the police, we have, for example, one of the very
violent units that you see arresting people all over friends,
which are called Brigadotic Riminality or back for fort and
(10:07):
these people come from some sort of colonial units who
were in Algeria during the war and when there was
a need to repress populations who previously lived in colonies
(10:31):
and then moved to France to the main country, they
created a lot of very violent units recruited through people
who were in the Algerian war to basically break down
people's house things like this, beat them up.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
You know.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
It was really colonial practices and all of this kind
of state with as a repression of pour and non
white areas of town where they try to always have
a strong police presence and touch people, they say in
(11:13):
the Act, but they're really making up reasons to arrest people.
Police violence is not new at all, And yeah, basically
it's easier. Need to train all year long against poor,
non white people, and then during protests they come against
(11:34):
people who have come to protests basically, which are generally
different people, but not entirely different people.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Of course, the police response to protests, again says, has
gotten more violence as the Jile Jean protests in twenty nineteen,
but instead of clearing the streets as Macron had hoped,
the increase in violence is just narrowing the traditional gap
in more moderate trade protesters and the more radical protesters
found in black blocks.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
I've seen people in America in England saying that the
movement is dying down because the inter union protests are
more and more away from each other. But in the
actual protest people are much much more radical. And what
happens is that the people who are in the front
of the protests before the union and who may potentially
(12:28):
fight with the cops that the Union will never do,
they're more and more numerous, Like four times bigger than
the protests months ago, and so the cops cannot charge us.
Every time they charge, people get around them, and there
are rocks which happen to hit their heads.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
I don't know how Yeah, cry ask about that a bit,
specifically about the dynamic of there being a sort of
I don't know, I kind of divide between the sort
of more builtant people who are fighting the car and
the sort of more moderate like trade union like protesters.
I wanted to ask, I guess, like how firm has
(13:09):
that separation been and what I guess have the unions
been doing here? Have they been trying to contain things?
Have they been trying to push forwards?
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Well, I think it's a very recent phenomenon kind of,
especially the way it's taken from now, because it's basically
a mix of a black block and some le Jeune
and some random already called people, yeah, yellow vests. But
(13:47):
so the black block it started really in twenty sixteen.
Before this was no real black block all the time
at protests, and the attitude of the unions is that
they hate the black block. It's pretty simple. I mean,
not of course, as everyone who is in a union,
but the unions who organize the protest. They don't want
(14:10):
anyone in front of them. They want people to go
behind them and follow whatever they want to do. So
they've been really aggressive. But even if there are conflicts
right now, I would say the fact that the people
in front of the union are more and more numerous,
(14:31):
I think there's somewhat less tensions the unions. I don't
think they feel like they can really push against even
the black bloc or radicals who break stuff.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
If I may add in something, indeed, there is a
difference between the attitude of the union directions, let's say,
and people like me, the simple unionized workers. And what
(15:07):
Miles said is absolutely true about the the hate, the Yeah,
they really don't want any black blocks, especially in front
of them. But what I observed in these over the
last few demonstrations is that what we call the cortege,
(15:29):
which is really the very head of the demonstration, even
in front of the unions, the official union group, where
there are the black blocks and the yellow vests, there
(15:49):
are more and more people. I was I was like,
I was going to say, like me, but I'm a
bit of a still a bit cowardly, and I'm still
afraid of of getting in this kind of place. But
there are more and more unionized workers who mingle with
(16:11):
the black blogs and et cetera. And I you know,
we also have what we call manifestations sauvage, the wild
and and not organized protests that are not organized by
unions but are kind of spontaneous.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
They opened after Macro forced the reform through parliament without
a vote, and people just went in the streets without
the union and they burned. There were images in Paris
of everything burning. It was that day, and that's what
we call wild protests.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Yeah, and for the first time I saw unionized workers
joining in. That is crazy, because they were feeling that
what the unions were proposing within the legal and pacifists
(17:14):
and nice frame was not enough because really our president
was really just making fun of us and we couldn't
have it, and what we usually do was not longer
enough for us. And this is really something new.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
I asked about the appearance of the Gilijan in the
current protest and what that you thought of them, Mael.
The student was somewhat dismissive, but the impact that Jile
Jean had on a GAT and the railway workers was
very different.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
I can say a little bit, but I don't know
much about the yellow vests. For what I saw of
the yellow Vests were a lot of blockages and people
against taxes on gas. And the way it radicalized was
(18:21):
towards some form of radical democracy, but maybe not so radical,
because they wanted the mass movement seemed to end on
the demand for referendums. Basically, they wanted to be able
to call their own referendums, and the demands were not
(18:46):
directly linked to economics. And as I saw them many
very often, and when we saw them in protests in lyon,
they work no weird, but I don't know them very well.
What I saw was that the government repressed them really,
(19:10):
really hard, much harder than the usual protests that we do,
because they were really scared of them.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Yeah, because I took part to the yellow vest movement,
and I tend to disagree a bit with your analysis
on this. Yeah, no problem, no, no, no, no, it's
just a I'm just saying, and it's not an attack
at all. At first, I must say I hainted this
movement because well, just long story short, it began in
(19:41):
twenty eighteen, and in twenty eighteen there was a big
movement in the SENCF where I work in the Railway
Public Company because the current it's very funny because it's
the current Prime Minister who was the tra and Sport
Minister at the time.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
They just view them around, they keep we keep seeing.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
It's absolutely I can't stand that anyway. I have a
personal vendetta with this woman. And we had been trying
to fight off the well, they kind of started to
kill off our company. It's only now dying of its
(20:30):
slow death. But this is where it really well, this
is where the end really began in twenty eighteen for us.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
You mean by privatization, they're killing the content.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Yeah, we are not private yet, but the door has
been opened one yes. And so it's been a really
really hard protest for us and we in the end
we lost. It was really hard, and after that we
(21:05):
we've been I've seen these people the yellow vest stand
up and take on our songs to make them their own.
The famous only lap. It started with the in the
railway world, and it really started in Lyons. I was
there and suddenly these people whom I did not see
(21:29):
by our side a few months before, started to invade
the streets and sing our songs. I was really outraged.
I was furious, and then I fortunately I spent time
with the people who are more intelligent than me and
(21:49):
who said that it was worth going to see these
people and see what was on their minds and what
they were thinking, especially because there were people who had
never before protested, They had never been on the street
to demonstrate about anything, and they were right to do that.
(22:11):
And it all started with the price of oil and
of gasolina. And I found that really really insignificant, and
in fact, it really opened my mind about the reality
of other people, because I do not have a car,
(22:31):
but some people have a car, and they needed to
live together, to make a live in And not only that,
but the motives of the protest. They roaded and roaded
these people. They got politicized at such a speed, a
(22:52):
high speed. This is incredible because quite rapidly the what
they were demanding were. It was not simply the lowering
of the oil price. It was also more democracy, it
was more social justice. It was against the cancelation of
(23:14):
attacks unfortune of the great fortune of people on great tealth,
and on climate. Also, it merged with a lot of
climate demonstrations and it broad it really it was about
really a social model and what world we want to
live in tomorrow. And so this is why I say
(23:38):
this movement was really incredible. It was also incredible because
it was taking place without the unions. It depends on
the regions. In France, in Leon, for example, there is
no love lost between the Yellow Vests and the unions
the direction of the unions. But in other regions like
(23:59):
in South and France or in the North, it's very different.
And soon they began to protest together and the Yellow
Vest they they they gave us a new a fresh
new breath. It was really a fresher breath of fresh air.
There was such spontaneous, they were so spontaneous and so angry. Also,
(24:27):
you know, they they they remind they reminded us what
it was to be angry and to have the right
to be angry and not to be helpless in front
of an unjust policy. And it really changed changes. And
as just like I said that earlier, that in this
(24:51):
very movement, the movement we live in now, there are
there are unionized workers who mingle with the black Dog
for example, well, there were a lot of us unionized
workers in the Yellow Vest too, and so yeah, it
influenced us a lot.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
I think we can say that if twenty sixteen added
a black block to the protests, now with the Yellow
vestic change completely the way we protest as well. All
the blockages are like much more regular, and the way
we're people fear less, you know, to demand things and
(25:34):
to organize without unions. I think we can say that
it definitely changed things. Yes, Also personally, I think that
if I say wrong things about Yellow vests, why, I
don't know. The important is because yes, the concerns about
(25:55):
oil gas price was not one of buying because I
live in the city and I don't have a car,
So I think it affected more the country, the countryside
of France, which is more concerned with gas prices, yeah,
than big cities. Also because we already have lots of
(26:22):
political movements here, so like it's conven different. I don't know,
this is sport very well, to be honest, maybe I
should just show up.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
No, I mean, it's it's interesting to me because I
remember when the Jilla Jehan's protests started up, there was
a lot of debate outside of France and kind of
like westerners observing the protests to are these guys. Is
this something that's like a positive movement? Are they all
right wing? And it's interesting that the in which kind
(27:00):
of all of these different sort of eras of protest
movements in France have melded together for this most recent
kind of uprising. Like you've got you know, the the
you've got these trade unions, you've got Gills Jen's, you've
got the Black Bloc, all sort of working as different
(27:21):
pieces of this of this uprising, you know, based on
kind of the different tactics of their eras. That's fascinating
to me.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
I was discussing and saying that it's kind of a
feature of movements about pensions, even if they can be
very different, that they tend to attract a lot of people.
And at first the protests were not very radical at
all compared to protests we could have with similar sizes.
(27:53):
But gradually the movement is radicalizing a lot, it seems
to me, the people who are in and the fact
that it tends to mobilize everyone at first, even if
it's not very radical, when it's created this sort of
mingling of everybody. There's a Yellow Vester Union, the Black Bloc,
(28:16):
everybody except to political parties because they're useless.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
But alongside the radicalization of protesters from all walks of
life inside France, there's been a surprisingly strong international reaction
from other European workers and activists.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
You know, I'm wondering. You know, during the Black Lives
Matter protests in the US and twenty twenty, international attention
was significant, and it was to some extent useful in
terms of helping to raise money and stuff for different
bail funds. People from all around the world helped to
that extent. But I'm wondering, is the degree of international
(29:03):
attention by other countries left wing movements on what's happening
in France right now? Is it having an impact directly
or is it just sort of like noise.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Well, on my part, it seems to be a lot
of noise, yes, because a lot of people seem to
misunderstand completely the situation, and yeah, they just give their
opinion and that's fine, I guess. But I think there
(29:38):
may be actual solidarity with some militants. I mean, I
know among anarchists that there are an archists who come
from Italy, Switzerland, Germany and other countries who try to
help actions and protests and I'm pretty sure that among
(30:00):
unions there's international solidarity as well, but maybe I got
you should say something about this.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Yes, there is international solidarity. Honestly, this is not something
I was expecting. But for instance, last week in Belgium
there are workers from a total plant that actually blocked
the freaking port and to prevent them from sending product
(30:35):
to substitute it from to the product that was blocked
by protesters in France, and that was This is for me,
This is absolutely wonderful. And yes, so yes, there there
are international solidarities. We have been in our inter professional assembly,
(30:59):
because we have a local inter professional assembly, and we
have been expressing our gratitude to the people in Greece,
in Argentina, in Spain, in Germany who expressed their support
(31:19):
openly and personally. I was really surprised to see how
many people actually were being attention to what was happening
in our country, and it gives us, well, it gave
strength to many people, and it also gives hope because
(31:43):
I realized that, well, you know, the main leverage we
have on our lititicians is the economical beverage. And so
when the bosses a big companies and investors and everything
start to say, well, guy, uh, your reform of pensions
(32:07):
in France is starting to make a mess in Germany,
in Spain, in Greece. Please stop your madness. Well, this
is a leverage I was not expecting. We are trying
to use the leverage of the big wealth and UH
(32:27):
and and the big companies in France, which is already
something quite hard to move. And that was really an
unexpected support. And we really hope that it's going to
have an because Macaron is very uh. He's a narcissistic
(32:49):
guy and he lost his own image. So if his
image is starting to suffer internationally, I think this is
going to be a big problem for him, and his
image at the time is really a catastrophe.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Belgium, of course, is not the only place for blockades
are happening. They've become a staple of the uprising in
France as well.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
I'm very interesting talking about the blockages of the highways
around Lyon, because many cities are trying to do this.
There is then which is in Brotain, which manages to
block the highways very often, and so they started in
(33:38):
Lyon and we tried once a few weeks ago. It
was a call by the unions with a few points
to block in the morning and people the militants from
all over join the points at like six am or
seven am, I don't remember. But when people arrived there
(33:59):
were cups everywhere and they were pushed away and circulation
and capitalism could work normally and everything was fine. So
we were very frustrated. So reorganized completely and through the
Struggle Committee, we assembled people from general assemblies all over
(34:22):
the city and also various groups, and we managed to
organize a blockade last Thursday, and it worked pretty well.
It was not exceptional, but for first trip, people were
very happy about it, and it led to many people
(34:44):
from all over in the movement working together on a
project and meeting together in assembly and then being together
on blockages. And I think its moments like this which
are very important for the movement to develop. I'm not
(35:06):
sure if the blockage in itself is the most interesting
action in terms of economic damage, especially if we don't
stay very long, but the different social relations it can create,
and I think it can have a lot of influence
in the movement, especially when we're thinking about the unions
(35:32):
and the leaders of the unions who don't want to
mobilize too much, we don't want to go too far.
What can we do outside of that? Well, I think
that's part of the answer, at.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Least, I agree.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Yeah, I think that's only that was interesting to me
because I think the roadblocks and barricades like that as
a sort of social site is like a really it's
a thing you see a lot in the past, like
twenty twenty five years of protest movements. This was a
big deal in like Hawk in twentyd and six. There's
(36:12):
a lot of similar stuff in Tehran during the uprising there.
It's interesting to see it sort of like re entering
the repertoire of stuff.
Speaker 4 (36:21):
Yeah, the kind of the different species of social interactions
that are made possible by these kind of zones of
autonomy that are creating.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
And they ask a lot of new questions for militants,
how to hold a barricade against cops and against cars.
It's a lot of different questions which I think they
can radicalize people at least two demand more things. So
(36:52):
it's not clear what they want to demand for now. Yeah,
I just wanted to say that I'm really really happy
to see people from different parts of society really coming
together and accepting to work together, like so many things impossible.
Now as a student, I've met basically sans from all
(37:14):
universities in my town. I now have free access to
all publications in French and I'll never pay for anything.
It's really really great. In terms of blockage, there is
just south of Leon, there is an oil refinery which
is not on strike. It's among the only ones. So
(37:40):
it's really important because in France there's a special system
because they wanted to stay independent from all producers, so
they import the oil and then they refine it in France.
So basically, if we stop all the refinery, there is
no more gas for cars, and right it's becoming a
(38:01):
real problem because of the strikes, and this one stays
open and so people have started to try and block
the entry. So right now there's like something like fifty
union workers and like fifty radical militants who come there
(38:21):
every morning. Well not this week, but last week they
were doing it because this week we haven't said, but
everyone is on holiday kind of somewhat, the students are
on holiday, so many people take their paid leave right
now as well. It's kind of a special time. Soone
(38:45):
but next week, probably the blockages aren't going to start again.
And it's great to see union workers meeting with more
radical people who try and get an action together. I
think when there is story diarity that exists, great things
can happen.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
If I may add something about blockages and everything, what
works pretty well, and it's it's quite satisfying. Uh, there
are big days of mobilization. And what what has happened
several times now is that on the very same day,
(39:27):
at the very same time, there are several appointments a
little everywhere in the in the town, and to block something,
to block a highway, to block a factory, to block
a school or whatever. And this allows, uh, it allows
(39:49):
us to to dispatch and to stretch the forces of
the police, and so they are never enough everywhere to
stop us. And that makes that can make that can
make the day a real success because you have a
lot of things happening at the very same time, but
(40:12):
there is only so many cops. So yeah, it works
pretty well.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
This is interestingly the same analysis the US police came
to in twenty twenty. It's easy to stop one large action,
but several smaller actions split police forces and prevent them
from just caddling one large block of protesters. I guess
I think I was interested in is that I think
one of the things that happens in the US a
lot is you'll get a national day of action, but
all of the actions like there'll just be one giant
(40:41):
action in a city, and you don't get the kind
of like diffusion that's been helpful with spreading out cop numbers.
And I was wondering, like, is this something like the
unions are specifically planning to have multiple events all over
the place, or is that something that's been happening like
outside that or.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
No, no, nonser unions only and when they plan for
a strike and for protests.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
There are also actions, but only one action and the
others are organized by I mean regular people or no.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
But like you mean the actions on the day, they're
not organized by the national union's local unions which do
the actions, right, that's what you're talking about. Yes, absolutely, yeah,
so there are local unions because in friends, unions are
(41:38):
very federal. Somewhat's this we can talk about it. It's
a bit of a problem. But like you know, the
SEGET it started out as an archiest union, so they
were like very into federalism and all of this. So
there is local autonomy, and what happens is workers in
(42:01):
very mobilized sectors like the railways, the energy workers, they
were organized through their union actions on that day, for example.
And on top of this, for example, you have students
in a certain high school or a certain university who
(42:23):
decided to block something, and for example, they need support. Recently,
there was a notably right wing campus who was blocked
by students, and so a lot of us came to
help them because we've had never seen this campus blocked ever.
(42:44):
And of course what happened was some fascists attacked them,
but we were much much more numerous than them, so
it was no problem. But the next time they had
a blockage planned at this campus, yes, they ended up
not having enough numbers so they can sold. But the
(43:05):
fascists didn't know that it was canceled, and so they
all came really armed with metal bars and all of that.
You know.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
Still, despite the threat of fascist streak gangs, and they're
better armed and more legitimate counterparts in the police, the
protests continue. They continue to block roads, they continue to
occupy universities, they continue to strike, they continue to fight
the police. They continue to find new forms of resistance,
new forms of solidarity, new worlds composed of people who
(43:35):
in ordinary times would never have met, and in the
process they continue to find new ways of being free.
Beneath the cobblestones, the beach sat another generation of French
protesters in May of nineteen sixty eight. All you have
to do is pick it up and throw it. It
(43:57):
could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media.
For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
You listen to podcasts.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
You can find sources for It could Happen Here, updated
monthly at coolzonmedia dot com slash sources.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
Thanks for listening
It's been four months since French President Emmanuel Macron effectively
declared war on French society euphemistically called pension reforms. Macron's
proposal would increase the retirement age from sixty two to
sixty four, effectively robbing the working class of two years
of their lives. In January, French unions filled the streets
of Paris with trash. Now French workers build brick and
(00:29):
mortar barricades on highways and set branches on fire on
train tracks. Welcome to it could happen here. The escalation
from protest to uprising is in part a product of
how Macron forced the retirement age increase through a national
assembly he no longer controls without the ability to win
(00:50):
a vote. Macron's Prime Minister, Elizabeth Bourne, suddenly invoked Article
forty nine of the French Constitution, which allows the ruling
government to force there's a bill into law without a vote.
Mccron argues that because circumventing parliament to force legislation through
is legal, the move is democratic. Millions across France disagree.
(01:12):
We spoke to two French protesters, Mael, a student in Leone,
and a Gat, a union railway worker at a state
owned rail company about the movement. The two met through
a struggle committee designed to bring people from different backgrounds
and movements together to fight against mccron's reforms and four,
as Mael put it, victories for our class. A gat
(01:34):
had this to say about Macron's anti democratic sleight of hand.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
What they are using right now is a rhetorical trap
which consists of confusing democracy and a constitutionalism. I don't
know if I'm using the right word, but for instance,
(01:59):
you know that they maybe you know that to impose
this reform, they have been using an article which is
Article forty nine point three of our constitution, and they
say that, well, this article is in the constitution, we
are in a democracy, and therefore this article is democratic,
(02:23):
which is absolutely false. It's a fallacious reasoning. It is
not true. It's the forty nine point three is an
anti constitution. It is an anti democratic article of the constitution.
And this is what they have been trying to do lately,
(02:45):
to say to make us believe that everything that's been
happening is absolutely normal and implies with the democratic standards
of France, which is not true. Also, what they are
trying to do to disqualify any opposition from the left
(03:05):
wing is to say that the left wing party is
actually an extreme left wing party, which it is not.
And it's kind of they are trying to induce the
kind of history in all this and to radicalize what
(03:27):
is not. What we are asking for is simply for
them to to listen to what we, for once can
call the people. Generally, when you have a protest, it's
only a part of the population that disagrees with the
policy of the government. But this time, honestly, uh, there
(03:49):
are seven seven people out of ten who are who
disagree with this and uh, nine workers out of ten
who disagree with this reform. Honestly, I think we can
call our selves the people. And in a democracy, well,
what you do is listen to the people, not that
representatives and not the members of the government, but the
(04:11):
people in the fucking streets. I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
And and because they do not want to do that,
they try to say that we are radicals and that
we are supported by radical political parties. It's not true.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Yeah, it's it's very radious situation.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yeah, this is what I wanted to say about what
they're at their current strategy. Aside from the repression of
which we are going to talk in a few minutes.
This is what their strategy is.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Yeah, Like basically they confuse all of the forces on
the left together. They say that Milansia is funding the
Black Blog, you know, so it's things like that, the CGTS,
the fee, all of them, it's all the same, and
(05:08):
they all want the destruction of civilization. And I don't know.
That's the discourse on the far right.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yeah, babies, Yeah, that sounds like you're American, right too.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Yeah, and this is kind of linked to police violence,
this discourse. When you were talking about how they're saying
that the constitution is democratic and there's nothing you can
say even though well, the point of the constitution is
to bypass the parliament. I don't know that democratic. But yeah,
(05:47):
so when it comes to police violence, the reaction is
to say that the state holds the legitimate monopoly of violence,
so therefore they can represss how they want. That's literally
what they're saying right now, which is worrying.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
The French police have been incredibly violent in their campaign
to suppress the protests at an ecological action in Sanzoline
on March twenty fifth. Tens of thousands of activists were
met with helicopters, armored vehicles, and six thousand grenades, many
of which were the French police's new and incredibly dangerous
military grade GM two l CS gas grenades. One protester
(06:29):
was shot in the head with a tear gas grenade
fired by a grenade launcher mounted on an armored vehicle.
He remained in a coma fighting for his life for
an entire month. Earlier today, his parents' release a statement
saying that he has begun to wake up, but is
not fully conscious and his life remains in danger. The
day before, a special police motorcycle unit called Brav M,
(06:53):
created in twenty nineteen to suppress the Genejean with the
Yellow vest protests, was recorded threatening a group of random
people that had arrested for sitting in front of a
building from The Washington Post. The cop says, quote, You're
lucky to be sitting there now that we've arrested you.
I swear I'd have broken your legs. Literally. I can
tell you We've broken elbows and faces, but you I'd
(07:14):
have broken your legs, one officer says in the recording.
Limone reported two slapping sounds can be heard, the report says,
along with an officer saying, wipe that smile off your face.
Later in the clip, a police officer warns the young
people they have detained. Quote next time we come, you
won't be getting in the car to go to the
police station. You'll be getting in another thing called an
(07:34):
ambulance to go to the hospital. Paris police chief Laurette
Nuez said on Friday he was quote very shocked by
the audio clip. Mayel and a gat We're less shocked.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
This is not really a surprise, unfortunately, because well, our
lease is not as ah. No, it's problematic, but maybe
not as problematic as in the US. I'm sorry if
I'm wrong about that. But we also follow sometimes what
(08:10):
happens on the other side of the ocean. And uh,
but I must say that we we have had issues
of police murders on the street, like and police violence,
want and violence, and unfortunately that now it's not new
(08:34):
and there is a newspaper media parts who managed to
find a excerpt of I think it's a group on
Whatsapple whatever of policemen talking about race, war and uh
(08:55):
and all these kinds of things. And unfortunately we know
that there are such people in our police.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
So the police are they're kind of basically fascists, all
of them. Like they have like one of their unions
which called Alliance, and for the politics for the presidential elections,
they invited the right wing party who are basically only
(09:25):
people who talg with all about genocide. And then the
classic Mariine Japan and there the far right who's openly
calling for a civilizational war with Muslims. So that's the
(09:45):
police unions. And for a little bit of history on
the police, we have, for example, one of the very
violent units that you see arresting people all over friends,
which are called Brigadotic Riminality or back for fort and
(10:07):
these people come from some sort of colonial units who
were in Algeria during the war and when there was
a need to repress populations who previously lived in colonies
(10:31):
and then moved to France to the main country, they
created a lot of very violent units recruited through people
who were in the Algerian war to basically break down
people's house things like this, beat them up.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
You know.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
It was really colonial practices and all of this kind
of state with as a repression of pour and non
white areas of town where they try to always have
a strong police presence and touch people, they say in
(11:13):
the Act, but they're really making up reasons to arrest people.
Police violence is not new at all, And yeah, basically
it's easier. Need to train all year long against poor,
non white people, and then during protests they come against
(11:34):
people who have come to protests basically, which are generally
different people, but not entirely different people.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Of course, the police response to protests, again says, has
gotten more violence as the Jile Jean protests in twenty nineteen,
but instead of clearing the streets as Macron had hoped,
the increase in violence is just narrowing the traditional gap
in more moderate trade protesters and the more radical protesters
found in black blocks.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
I've seen people in America in England saying that the
movement is dying down because the inter union protests are
more and more away from each other. But in the
actual protest people are much much more radical. And what
happens is that the people who are in the front
of the protests before the union and who may potentially
(12:28):
fight with the cops that the Union will never do,
they're more and more numerous, Like four times bigger than
the protests months ago, and so the cops cannot charge us.
Every time they charge, people get around them, and there
are rocks which happen to hit their heads.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
I don't know how Yeah, cry ask about that a bit,
specifically about the dynamic of there being a sort of
I don't know, I kind of divide between the sort
of more builtant people who are fighting the car and
the sort of more moderate like trade union like protesters.
I wanted to ask, I guess, like how firm has
(13:09):
that separation been and what I guess have the unions
been doing here? Have they been trying to contain things?
Have they been trying to push forwards?
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Well, I think it's a very recent phenomenon kind of,
especially the way it's taken from now, because it's basically
a mix of a black block and some le Jeune
and some random already called people, yeah, yellow vests. But
(13:47):
so the black block it started really in twenty sixteen.
Before this was no real black block all the time
at protests, and the attitude of the unions is that
they hate the black block. It's pretty simple. I mean,
not of course, as everyone who is in a union,
but the unions who organize the protest. They don't want
(14:10):
anyone in front of them. They want people to go
behind them and follow whatever they want to do. So
they've been really aggressive. But even if there are conflicts
right now, I would say the fact that the people
in front of the union are more and more numerous,
(14:31):
I think there's somewhat less tensions the unions. I don't
think they feel like they can really push against even
the black bloc or radicals who break stuff.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
If I may add in something, indeed, there is a
difference between the attitude of the union directions, let's say,
and people like me, the simple unionized workers. And what
(15:07):
Miles said is absolutely true about the the hate, the Yeah,
they really don't want any black blocks, especially in front
of them. But what I observed in these over the
last few demonstrations is that what we call the cortege,
(15:29):
which is really the very head of the demonstration, even
in front of the unions, the official union group, where
there are the black blocks and the yellow vests, there
(15:49):
are more and more people. I was I was like,
I was going to say, like me, but I'm a
bit of a still a bit cowardly, and I'm still
afraid of of getting in this kind of place. But
there are more and more unionized workers who mingle with
(16:11):
the black blogs and et cetera. And I you know,
we also have what we call manifestations sauvage, the wild
and and not organized protests that are not organized by
unions but are kind of spontaneous.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
They opened after Macro forced the reform through parliament without
a vote, and people just went in the streets without
the union and they burned. There were images in Paris
of everything burning. It was that day, and that's what
we call wild protests.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Yeah, and for the first time I saw unionized workers
joining in. That is crazy, because they were feeling that
what the unions were proposing within the legal and pacifists
(17:14):
and nice frame was not enough because really our president
was really just making fun of us and we couldn't
have it, and what we usually do was not longer
enough for us. And this is really something new.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
I asked about the appearance of the Gilijan in the
current protest and what that you thought of them, Mael.
The student was somewhat dismissive, but the impact that Jile
Jean had on a GAT and the railway workers was
very different.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
I can say a little bit, but I don't know
much about the yellow vests. For what I saw of
the yellow Vests were a lot of blockages and people
against taxes on gas. And the way it radicalized was
(18:21):
towards some form of radical democracy, but maybe not so radical,
because they wanted the mass movement seemed to end on
the demand for referendums. Basically, they wanted to be able
to call their own referendums, and the demands were not
(18:46):
directly linked to economics. And as I saw them many
very often, and when we saw them in protests in lyon,
they work no weird, but I don't know them very well.
What I saw was that the government repressed them really,
(19:10):
really hard, much harder than the usual protests that we do,
because they were really scared of them.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Yeah, because I took part to the yellow vest movement,
and I tend to disagree a bit with your analysis
on this. Yeah, no problem, no, no, no, no, it's
just a I'm just saying, and it's not an attack
at all. At first, I must say I hainted this
movement because well, just long story short, it began in
(19:41):
twenty eighteen, and in twenty eighteen there was a big
movement in the SENCF where I work in the Railway
Public Company because the current it's very funny because it's
the current Prime Minister who was the tra and Sport
Minister at the time.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
They just view them around, they keep we keep seeing.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
It's absolutely I can't stand that anyway. I have a
personal vendetta with this woman. And we had been trying
to fight off the well, they kind of started to
kill off our company. It's only now dying of its
(20:30):
slow death. But this is where it really well, this
is where the end really began in twenty eighteen for us.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
You mean by privatization, they're killing the content.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Yeah, we are not private yet, but the door has
been opened one yes. And so it's been a really
really hard protest for us and we in the end
we lost. It was really hard, and after that we
(21:05):
we've been I've seen these people the yellow vest stand
up and take on our songs to make them their own.
The famous only lap. It started with the in the
railway world, and it really started in Lyons. I was
there and suddenly these people whom I did not see
(21:29):
by our side a few months before, started to invade
the streets and sing our songs. I was really outraged.
I was furious, and then I fortunately I spent time
with the people who are more intelligent than me and
(21:49):
who said that it was worth going to see these
people and see what was on their minds and what
they were thinking, especially because there were people who had
never before protested, They had never been on the street
to demonstrate about anything, and they were right to do that.
(22:11):
And it all started with the price of oil and
of gasolina. And I found that really really insignificant, and
in fact, it really opened my mind about the reality
of other people, because I do not have a car,
(22:31):
but some people have a car, and they needed to
live together, to make a live in And not only that,
but the motives of the protest. They roaded and roaded
these people. They got politicized at such a speed, a
(22:52):
high speed. This is incredible because quite rapidly the what
they were demanding were. It was not simply the lowering
of the oil price. It was also more democracy, it
was more social justice. It was against the cancelation of
(23:14):
attacks unfortune of the great fortune of people on great tealth,
and on climate. Also, it merged with a lot of
climate demonstrations and it broad it really it was about
really a social model and what world we want to
live in tomorrow. And so this is why I say
(23:38):
this movement was really incredible. It was also incredible because
it was taking place without the unions. It depends on
the regions. In France, in Leon, for example, there is
no love lost between the Yellow Vests and the unions
the direction of the unions. But in other regions like
(23:59):
in South and France or in the North, it's very different.
And soon they began to protest together and the Yellow
Vest they they they gave us a new a fresh
new breath. It was really a fresher breath of fresh air.
There was such spontaneous, they were so spontaneous and so angry. Also,
(24:27):
you know, they they they remind they reminded us what
it was to be angry and to have the right
to be angry and not to be helpless in front
of an unjust policy. And it really changed changes. And
as just like I said that earlier, that in this
(24:51):
very movement, the movement we live in now, there are
there are unionized workers who mingle with the black Dog
for example, well, there were a lot of us unionized
workers in the Yellow Vest too, and so yeah, it
influenced us a lot.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
I think we can say that if twenty sixteen added
a black block to the protests, now with the Yellow
vestic change completely the way we protest as well. All
the blockages are like much more regular, and the way
we're people fear less, you know, to demand things and
(25:34):
to organize without unions. I think we can say that
it definitely changed things. Yes, Also personally, I think that
if I say wrong things about Yellow vests, why, I
don't know. The important is because yes, the concerns about
(25:55):
oil gas price was not one of buying because I
live in the city and I don't have a car,
So I think it affected more the country, the countryside
of France, which is more concerned with gas prices, yeah,
than big cities. Also because we already have lots of
(26:22):
political movements here, so like it's conven different. I don't know,
this is sport very well, to be honest, maybe I
should just show up.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
No, I mean, it's it's interesting to me because I
remember when the Jilla Jehan's protests started up, there was
a lot of debate outside of France and kind of
like westerners observing the protests to are these guys. Is
this something that's like a positive movement? Are they all
right wing? And it's interesting that the in which kind
(27:00):
of all of these different sort of eras of protest
movements in France have melded together for this most recent
kind of uprising. Like you've got you know, the the
you've got these trade unions, you've got Gills Jen's, you've
got the Black Bloc, all sort of working as different
(27:21):
pieces of this of this uprising, you know, based on
kind of the different tactics of their eras. That's fascinating
to me.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
I was discussing and saying that it's kind of a
feature of movements about pensions, even if they can be
very different, that they tend to attract a lot of people.
And at first the protests were not very radical at
all compared to protests we could have with similar sizes.
(27:53):
But gradually the movement is radicalizing a lot, it seems
to me, the people who are in and the fact
that it tends to mobilize everyone at first, even if
it's not very radical, when it's created this sort of
mingling of everybody. There's a Yellow Vester Union, the Black Bloc,
(28:16):
everybody except to political parties because they're useless.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
But alongside the radicalization of protesters from all walks of
life inside France, there's been a surprisingly strong international reaction
from other European workers and activists.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
You know, I'm wondering. You know, during the Black Lives
Matter protests in the US and twenty twenty, international attention
was significant, and it was to some extent useful in
terms of helping to raise money and stuff for different
bail funds. People from all around the world helped to
that extent. But I'm wondering, is the degree of international
(29:03):
attention by other countries left wing movements on what's happening
in France right now? Is it having an impact directly
or is it just sort of like noise.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Well, on my part, it seems to be a lot
of noise, yes, because a lot of people seem to
misunderstand completely the situation, and yeah, they just give their
opinion and that's fine, I guess. But I think there
(29:38):
may be actual solidarity with some militants. I mean, I
know among anarchists that there are an archists who come
from Italy, Switzerland, Germany and other countries who try to
help actions and protests and I'm pretty sure that among
(30:00):
unions there's international solidarity as well, but maybe I got
you should say something about this.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Yes, there is international solidarity. Honestly, this is not something
I was expecting. But for instance, last week in Belgium
there are workers from a total plant that actually blocked
the freaking port and to prevent them from sending product
(30:35):
to substitute it from to the product that was blocked
by protesters in France, and that was This is for me,
This is absolutely wonderful. And yes, so yes, there there
are international solidarities. We have been in our inter professional assembly,
(30:59):
because we have a local inter professional assembly, and we
have been expressing our gratitude to the people in Greece,
in Argentina, in Spain, in Germany who expressed their support
(31:19):
openly and personally. I was really surprised to see how
many people actually were being attention to what was happening
in our country, and it gives us, well, it gave
strength to many people, and it also gives hope because
(31:43):
I realized that, well, you know, the main leverage we
have on our lititicians is the economical beverage. And so
when the bosses a big companies and investors and everything
start to say, well, guy, uh, your reform of pensions
(32:07):
in France is starting to make a mess in Germany,
in Spain, in Greece. Please stop your madness. Well, this
is a leverage I was not expecting. We are trying
to use the leverage of the big wealth and UH
(32:27):
and and the big companies in France, which is already
something quite hard to move. And that was really an
unexpected support. And we really hope that it's going to
have an because Macaron is very uh. He's a narcissistic
(32:49):
guy and he lost his own image. So if his
image is starting to suffer internationally, I think this is
going to be a big problem for him, and his
image at the time is really a catastrophe.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Belgium, of course, is not the only place for blockades
are happening. They've become a staple of the uprising in
France as well.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
I'm very interesting talking about the blockages of the highways
around Lyon, because many cities are trying to do this.
There is then which is in Brotain, which manages to
block the highways very often, and so they started in
(33:38):
Lyon and we tried once a few weeks ago. It
was a call by the unions with a few points
to block in the morning and people the militants from
all over join the points at like six am or
seven am, I don't remember. But when people arrived there
(33:59):
were cups everywhere and they were pushed away and circulation
and capitalism could work normally and everything was fine. So
we were very frustrated. So reorganized completely and through the
Struggle Committee, we assembled people from general assemblies all over
(34:22):
the city and also various groups, and we managed to
organize a blockade last Thursday, and it worked pretty well.
It was not exceptional, but for first trip, people were
very happy about it, and it led to many people
(34:44):
from all over in the movement working together on a
project and meeting together in assembly and then being together
on blockages. And I think its moments like this which
are very important for the movement to develop. I'm not
(35:06):
sure if the blockage in itself is the most interesting
action in terms of economic damage, especially if we don't
stay very long, but the different social relations it can create,
and I think it can have a lot of influence
in the movement, especially when we're thinking about the unions
(35:32):
and the leaders of the unions who don't want to
mobilize too much, we don't want to go too far.
What can we do outside of that? Well, I think
that's part of the answer, at.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Least, I agree.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Yeah, I think that's only that was interesting to me
because I think the roadblocks and barricades like that as
a sort of social site is like a really it's
a thing you see a lot in the past, like
twenty twenty five years of protest movements. This was a
big deal in like Hawk in twentyd and six. There's
(36:12):
a lot of similar stuff in Tehran during the uprising there.
It's interesting to see it sort of like re entering
the repertoire of stuff.
Speaker 4 (36:21):
Yeah, the kind of the different species of social interactions
that are made possible by these kind of zones of
autonomy that are creating.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
And they ask a lot of new questions for militants,
how to hold a barricade against cops and against cars.
It's a lot of different questions which I think they
can radicalize people at least two demand more things. So
(36:52):
it's not clear what they want to demand for now. Yeah,
I just wanted to say that I'm really really happy
to see people from different parts of society really coming
together and accepting to work together, like so many things impossible.
Now as a student, I've met basically sans from all
(37:14):
universities in my town. I now have free access to
all publications in French and I'll never pay for anything.
It's really really great. In terms of blockage, there is
just south of Leon, there is an oil refinery which
is not on strike. It's among the only ones. So
(37:40):
it's really important because in France there's a special system
because they wanted to stay independent from all producers, so
they import the oil and then they refine it in France.
So basically, if we stop all the refinery, there is
no more gas for cars, and right it's becoming a
(38:01):
real problem because of the strikes, and this one stays
open and so people have started to try and block
the entry. So right now there's like something like fifty
union workers and like fifty radical militants who come there
(38:21):
every morning. Well not this week, but last week they
were doing it because this week we haven't said, but
everyone is on holiday kind of somewhat, the students are
on holiday, so many people take their paid leave right
now as well. It's kind of a special time. Soone
(38:45):
but next week, probably the blockages aren't going to start again.
And it's great to see union workers meeting with more
radical people who try and get an action together. I
think when there is story diarity that exists, great things
can happen.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
If I may add something about blockages and everything, what
works pretty well, and it's it's quite satisfying. Uh, there
are big days of mobilization. And what what has happened
several times now is that on the very same day,
(39:27):
at the very same time, there are several appointments a
little everywhere in the in the town, and to block something,
to block a highway, to block a factory, to block
a school or whatever. And this allows, uh, it allows
(39:49):
us to to dispatch and to stretch the forces of
the police, and so they are never enough everywhere to
stop us. And that makes that can make that can
make the day a real success because you have a
lot of things happening at the very same time, but
(40:12):
there is only so many cops. So yeah, it works
pretty well.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
This is interestingly the same analysis the US police came
to in twenty twenty. It's easy to stop one large action,
but several smaller actions split police forces and prevent them
from just caddling one large block of protesters. I guess
I think I was interested in is that I think
one of the things that happens in the US a
lot is you'll get a national day of action, but
all of the actions like there'll just be one giant
(40:41):
action in a city, and you don't get the kind
of like diffusion that's been helpful with spreading out cop numbers.
And I was wondering, like, is this something like the
unions are specifically planning to have multiple events all over
the place, or is that something that's been happening like
outside that or.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
No, no, nonser unions only and when they plan for
a strike and for protests.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
There are also actions, but only one action and the
others are organized by I mean regular people or no.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
But like you mean the actions on the day, they're
not organized by the national union's local unions which do
the actions, right, that's what you're talking about. Yes, absolutely, yeah,
so there are local unions because in friends, unions are
(41:38):
very federal. Somewhat's this we can talk about it. It's
a bit of a problem. But like you know, the
SEGET it started out as an archiest union, so they
were like very into federalism and all of this. So
there is local autonomy, and what happens is workers in
(42:01):
very mobilized sectors like the railways, the energy workers, they
were organized through their union actions on that day, for example.
And on top of this, for example, you have students
in a certain high school or a certain university who
(42:23):
decided to block something, and for example, they need support. Recently,
there was a notably right wing campus who was blocked
by students, and so a lot of us came to
help them because we've had never seen this campus blocked ever.
(42:44):
And of course what happened was some fascists attacked them,
but we were much much more numerous than them, so
it was no problem. But the next time they had
a blockage planned at this campus, yes, they ended up
not having enough numbers so they can sold. But the
(43:05):
fascists didn't know that it was canceled, and so they
all came really armed with metal bars and all of that.
You know.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
Still, despite the threat of fascist streak gangs, and they're
better armed and more legitimate counterparts in the police, the
protests continue. They continue to block roads, they continue to
occupy universities, they continue to strike, they continue to fight
the police. They continue to find new forms of resistance,
new forms of solidarity, new worlds composed of people who
(43:35):
in ordinary times would never have met, and in the
process they continue to find new ways of being free.
Beneath the cobblestones, the beach sat another generation of French
protesters in May of nineteen sixty eight. All you have
to do is pick it up and throw it. It
(43:57):
could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media.
For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
You listen to podcasts.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
You can find sources for It could Happen Here, updated
monthly at coolzonmedia dot com slash sources.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
Thanks for listening
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Robert Evans
Garrison Davis
James Stout
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