Benzino Unfiltered: The Source, Eminem Feud, & Hip-Hop’s Evolution | It's Up There Podcast - ITS UP THERE PODCAST W/LOONEY

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Eminem situation. I stood ten toes down with that.
We was the Sauce magazine. We were supposed to show
those tapes. We were supposed to go at him, that
we were supposed to hold a press.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
In their press release, Benzeno and Me announced they would
be playing a tape of Eminem wrapping racists.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
We didn't say that what's on his tape?

Speaker 3 (00:20):
The tape that three white kids from Detroit walked into
Dave's office brought and said, listen, this is the real
Eminem and and we're tired of it.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
We got to make this the same way that you
guys have treated Mike Tyson.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
You guys are treating Kobe Bryant, you guys have treated.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
R Kelly O. J. Simpson. Can we can hear the
music now? We didn't go look on for that tape.
The white boys popped up in the Sauce office trying
to get fifty bands. I gave him fifteen. They said
he made the tape at twenty one years old. They
told us everything.

Speaker 4 (00:54):
I heard you once. I heard you say that you
had more money than Jay Z. It was it not
even closed or I.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
Don't think it was close. At my height back then
I don't think. I don't think. So how much money
we're talking, I mean we was getting sorts. We was
getting a couple of million a month, a few million
a month just from advertise. I'm talking about you, though,
I mean I was spending. If you look at Jay
back then and look at you, like, how much you
think I got indicted taxes because I was spending millions
and millions of dollars. So you know, I could just

(01:26):
go from that. They wasn't spending millions of dollars. They
wasn't doing They didn't have money like that. They'll tell
you or what they reinvest in. I'm saying that, I
don't whatever. Maybe you were blowing it.

Speaker 5 (01:37):
I'm just saying no, no, they didn't have it. They
didn't have that type of cash that I had.

Speaker 4 (01:41):
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Speaker 1 (02:21):
The show, right. But I was still involved day one,
like I was when I met Dave. It was we
Dave had a radio station at Harvard, and we ended
up kind of like doing the station with him, me
and my DJ and we would do hip hop because

(02:42):
we never had a radio station in Boston, so college
radio was the station. Harved gave him two hours every
Saturday called street Beat. We went up there and we'd
be up there every Saturday. So you was there too,
of course, she yead, Oh, yeah, that's Dave came an
interview with our group at the spot, and then he
just kept in touch and then he provited us up there.

(03:04):
And then that's where it got made from one piece
of paper. Now from there, his guys, when you say
one piece piece of paper, it was a newsletter. Cara
Res was in like a little corner picture that had
like top five songs and a different other little articles
and segments, like a little segment right up about Cara Ress.
And it started as a newsletter that Dave would send

(03:26):
to all the labels and stuff. That was That was
his brainschild, he thought it. And then he got his guys. Uh,
John Scheckter, James Bernard, and h Ed were young. They
all were. John Scheckter was his roommate, another white guy.
H Ed were young, and and the other guy, James Bernard,

(03:47):
were black. But they were the different type of black.
You know what I'm saying. They were like real detached,
you know what I'm saying, college, you know what I'm saying.
You know what i mean, like come on now, like
you know what I'm saying. They just they wasn't necessarily
street or not like just street, but this culture there
it is all right, Yeah, that's a good word for

(04:08):
So he started with them, and they started a little
pamphlet and they grew and grew from black and white
and little pamphlet And where were you when they was
doing that stuff? Still still there with Dave the whole time.
And but you know, I was selling drugs. I was
a big Boston and Dave would be able to come around.
I had a group, the Rissol, and Dave was like,

(04:29):
damn nail our manager. He would bring guys from New York.
Tommy Boy. Tommy Boy was doing business at that time.
Like when Dave moved the magazine to New York except
the offices, Dave still was like with what we was
me and Dave was still like the source wasn't making money.
I was the money, you know what I'm saying. And yeah,
then at night you ever been arrested for drugs? Yeah? Yeah, okay,

(04:54):
go ahead, I'm sorry. So at ninety four, So when
when was this day was doing the pamphlet one year
that was like from like nineteen ninety, you know, because
it started, you know, like nineteen ninety it made it
to the pamphlet.

Speaker 6 (05:06):
When was the first magazine pug Public.

Speaker 1 (05:08):
I think that was like in eighty nine, ninety eighty nine, And.

Speaker 6 (05:12):
I'm talking about your first actual the cover of the.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Well, the color of black
and white. No, the magazine, it's maga different things, right,
You're right, that's what I'm saying. Like it went from
a one page news player to like a two page
newsletter thing. But the magazine, the actual magazine. It started
out as a magazine this big like Slick Rick was
on the cover, right. We did two of those before
it turned color, and then it got a little bigger.

(05:36):
So by the time it got bigger, Dave had moved
to New York and opened the office and it became
a full fledged hip hop magazine. That was the vision
to do what Rolling Stone was doing at the time,
to do what Rolling Stone was doing for rock. Dave
wanted to do what for hip hop, what its source
would be for hip hop? Right, And so he's in
you and still in Boston or you and I got

(05:58):
locked up on summer day because from DC. So every
summer day would go home because he couldn't be at
Harvard no more. And I let Dave stay in my apartment,
you know what I'm saying. And my apartment was the
address at that time, you know what I'm saying, before
they moved to New York. You know what I'm saying.
But it wasn't no money thing. Me and Dave was
just friends and we loved hip hop. I had a
group and I was selling drugs and Dave was doing

(06:19):
the matter saying, I was big in my hood, Dave
would be able to come to the hood as a
white guy. You know what I'm saying. Were y'all close,
super close? Y'all still close? No, I mean you did
good to understand like me, so great thing. I've known
Dave since eighty seven, and man, we've been through eighteen
years after source, and I mean everything you can imagine,

(06:40):
like every like the stories are just I can't and
you can't even imagic. We gotta get millions and millions
of dollars we was doing. I was doing all kind
of crazy. I was like I was a wild, wild
man back then, you know what I'm saying. And I
had millions, and I had a big crew, and we
just it was just all kind of like happening on
a daily basis and in the social it was just

(07:03):
it was just a lot, you know what I'm saying.
But it was you know, it was it was so
he moved to New York, moved to New York's what
ninety I think that was like ninety maybe nineteen ninety
maybe ninety When.

Speaker 4 (07:17):
Does the first magazine going on sale? St Well, because
what was the most what was the era for you?

Speaker 1 (07:24):
I mean the whole era. So I'm saying, Like what
I'm saying, what was the era that made it profitable?
Win that was until nineteen ninety. Like I didn't get
my first money because again I was making big money
in the streets. The sauce wasn't really you know what
I'm saying. It wasn't like with in the street or everything.
Like you know with heroin coke. She would yb out

(07:45):
with the heroin early in the eighties. You know, Boston
was a big heroin city. That'sart coke through my pops
plugs with Columbia, you know what I'm saying. But anyway, yeah, yeah,
so I was. I was was making a lot of
moves and I was even with the shower posse from
from from Jamaica at one at one time, like I was,

(08:06):
I was with some heavy hitters. You know. I was
a hustler. I was a drug dealers, drug dealer. Yeah,
I'd be twenty four hours out there like come by
and I was a hand to hand combat all my life.
Yeah me too. Yeah, so you know what I'm saying.
But so you so, so from eighty nine to ninety four,
what's happening with the source Okay, so it's a that's

(08:27):
a good So the source is growing. Hip hop's grown.
Remember it's grown with hip hop. Yes, that's a good
point because at this point it was just New York
at that point. Now by ninety four, the LA's starting
to you know what I'm saying, And now we're starting
to see other cities and you know what I'm saying.
So ninety four was when he put now mind you.

(08:48):
Up until then we had got signed to Tommy Boy.
We got sued by the police. We lost that deal
because we made a song called one of the Chamber
the Police suitors. We lost the deal. Then we got
sued me for what because we because we had made
a song call on a chain like in Boston, police
like it was nothing. Nobody was marching, nobody gave as
I'm talking white police, and they was getting over it.

(09:12):
It wasn't no ceing then, no marches, none of that gig.
The cars being shot twice in the back of the
head and project hallways and police was getting over I mean,
it's like they had a notorious history of like the
car theft in Boston, Massa Choosetts was number one, and
they'd be gunning down like it was a sport to
check for stealing the car and gunning them down. This

(09:35):
was happening at a regular basis in Massachusetts at Boston.
So you know, we made a soft call win the
chamber and we was talking about the two boys who
got for Rogers eighteen years old. They gunned him down
on the under a. It was hiding under a car
and they shot him multiple times. Seventy yer old Daniel

(09:55):
Lacklin shot him twice in the back of the head
and the hallways. How can you shoot somebody to watch
White's in the back of that. No gun on either
one of these guys. Wow, young kids. So we made
a song about it, basically saying that man like all
that you better keep you you know what I'm saying
for I'm not letting these I'd rather you know what
I'm saying, take my chances. So we got I mean,

(10:17):
what happened to the First Amendment? They soon we got sued.
We got sued. Oliver North came in because Cop came out.
Ice Team made life. It was a lot of people
don't know that me and nice Tea had a little
situation years ago. Man like, So when Cop came out,
Tommy Boy was an independent label. Warner Brothers had just
bought Tommy Boy around the time. We got a deal.

(10:39):
This is our first deal. One of the chambers making noise.
They like it, it's dope. They about to pay for
a video. So now we find out that we got
dropped by the newspaper because front page of the Boston
Herald that Boston Police sues almighty verse. I said, what
is this? We call him Tom Silverman, the answers to

(10:59):
this nancer never we talked to somebody in marketing. They
was like, yeah, we're gonna try to get Tom on
the phone with you, but everything is on hold. And
then we ended up getting a lawyer and then yeah,
you know what I'm saying, what are they suing for them?
Because they said that we was It was the Boston Patrolmans.
Boston Patrolman's Association said that we was calling for people

(11:20):
to At that time, cop iceed Tea's song had just
been nationwide with this, so we did an interview and
somebody asked me about it and they said, you know, come,
do you feel like Ice Tea? I said, Look, Ice
Tea is a rock song, That's all I said. I
wasn't in disrespect I said, it wasn't. I don't consider

(11:41):
that the same thing. I said. It was a rock song.
So I don't know they was trying to stop with
me and I team. But I remember, I'll never forget this.
We go to Irvin, California. We got a big show.
It's like Irvin's like summer jam type, so it's mad
artists and they had the stage that turned around like that, right.

Speaker 5 (12:02):
So we pull up and it's just me, It's just
the four of us, and we brought this Wayney Ranks,
he was a little Jamaican artist that we had did
a song with him that was getting some tracks in it.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
So we all is so the thing with ic had
he said something not necessarily disrespectful, but it was kind
of going back and forth. Back then. It wasn't Internet,
you know what I'm saying, but it was like he
said something to interview. So I remember us getting there.
We're in Irvine right in the height of the bloods
and crypt situation, right, so I just remembered it was

(12:37):
like yo, I said, damn. So we on the side
of the stage and I'm like, look I brought We
didn't have no gun, no knife, No nothing. I said. Look,
I said, whatever it happens, man, we gotta fight together.
I said, run off. You know what I'm saying, you know,
like it was I don't remember exactly what I said,
but it was like, whatever it is, I better see

(12:57):
everybody fight, you know what I'm saying, because it looked like,
you know, going down. Yeah. Man, So because Ice Tea
had just came, the truce was just trying to happen.
He came with like a hundred gangs. I mean literally,
there was like a hundred and fifty. It was bloods
and clips. Because at this time his whole thing was
I didn't notice, but he's performing. He was. He was

(13:18):
the headline of performing Colors. This is what Colors was.
And they had made a flag of blood and crips. Now,
remind you when the stage turned, but it's a it's
a wall, so you don't see what's coming next. So
they got this big gass blood clipped flag and it's
mad bloods and crips on stage. And so when that

(13:39):
went around, I got good goose cups that mother, it
was a number of bloods and clips on it like
your ice big big guess got some bit.

Speaker 6 (13:49):
Yeah, the penitentiary body seven.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
He's like, yo, Ice Wall, talk to you. You know,
sa wa talk to you alone. So I went over
there with say, y'all, man, he said, man, you see
what I got that? He started naming the sets in
the He said, man that I ain't got no people.
You holie. He said, Man, we gonna any baby's cops.
That's what he said. He man all that. Man, he said, Man,

(14:16):
how could that wink each other? Man? We're gonna cop.
I was like, yeah, let's do it. I'm like, yeah,
you know what I'm saying. You know what I mean.
So so so we end up losing the deal. And
because you are sued by the police because Boston gangs
today and Boston being racist.

Speaker 5 (14:34):
Town ship he brought he brought all on stage together
is a.

Speaker 1 (14:38):
I mean, I'm saying, I don't know, he's kind of
you again, I don't know what in the streets, but
I'm saying his influence how about that? Because to me,
you can be whatever. People that know you label you,
and you can or you can label yourself. But from
what I look is your influence and how.

Speaker 6 (14:54):
You you can't label yourself? You know, yeah you might
try to.

Speaker 1 (14:59):
Yeah, it's hard know what I'm saying. I know, I
know his influence. Yeah, he's major influence. I see. Was
a bad man, still a bad man, of course, still
on the run because we got a salute. We got
to salute him because there's not too many him in
l If you look at both of them, him on
the west and l on the east, they really stood
to test the time in this game. And what they

(15:20):
did with their career is what anybody that grows old
should want to do with their career. So I slewed
both of them right.

Speaker 4 (15:26):
And for me, I'm looking listening to you explain Ice
Tea back in the day, what year was this?

Speaker 1 (15:31):
Man? I remember this could have been this was early
Allist social this had been like eighty something, and so
then like early ninety something like because again came out
did Colors, and man they flip was fifteen thousand people,
half of them gang members.

Speaker 6 (15:49):
And so now I'm looking looking at Kendrick situation that
just happened, because for me, I'm looking at Kendrick and
Drake and saying, all right, there, you know there in
a battle the show that Kendrick done, it looked more
like a ganging up thing to me.

Speaker 1 (16:06):
Look, listen, look at it at the end of the day.
But it's funny because I saluted because but as Tea
done it, it's like in they it's different different. It's
different because Drake is not from the United States. See that,
and that plays a part. And it's like, Drake's amazing artist,
all right, can't take away. He sold a lot, maybe
a lot of great songs. But when it comes to

(16:28):
the and see Kendrick, that's all you have to do.
You just have to go back to the streets. Go
to the streets, wrap the streets, and the streets is
gonna rep you. And that's what happened. You know what
I'm saying. Drake can't get that. There's some real Toronto.
But it's not like you know what I'm saying, l A,
I mean America. He leaned on America and America reacted back.

(16:52):
You know what I'm saying, You can't come back. Drake
can't beat that. I really don't.

Speaker 4 (16:57):
But I want to see Drake and Kendrick. I don't
want to see It's.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
Not it's not even a it's not even close. Like
Drake's not a battle rapper man. Like when Drake came
got Drake when Drake when when Drake came with the AI,
I just that ain't that's not it. Yeah, you ain't
like the AI. That's not it. That's not it. Yeah,
I didn't like the A one. You know what I'm saying, Like,
I don't mind. Listen, if you've got a team, look,
people might understand, man, hipop's not a monolith. Like if

(17:24):
you got a team and there your team, that's like
the Bob Slid, that Jamaica Bob Slid team. It's all for.
If you're in a team in the studio, man, you
better and you put music is made with teams. Man,
Yeah something Penn's crazy, but delivery or image don't work.
So they got a right for me. And that's just
why do you why do you think Drake can't hang

(17:45):
with Kendrick though? Because I don't. I don't agree with
you when he didn't. Drake didn't grow up around that thing, man,
that thing. Drake came up different. Jake was will chair,
Jimmy right, what's his name? Yeah whatever was like, Drake
didn't come up under that. Drake was raised by his
white mom bro and in a in a in a

(18:07):
in a neighborhood that wasn't no danger, so it was.
But the battle rap is danger, battle rappers is battle
rappers is a swag that Drake don't have. Now, that
don't make Drake not dope.

Speaker 4 (18:20):
I don't know, man, We got people from London that
that's in battle rap, and I mean the real battle
rap culture, right, we got battle.

Speaker 1 (18:27):
Leagues in London, and I say, no, no, no, I'm not
saying that. I'm not. I say that to say that
the battle rap culture spreads out. He has battle rap
battle man, the battle rap coaches. Not nothing against London,
but nothing against Listen, Yeah, America is that thing though?
Come on, come on, America that thing? Come on. Yeah,

(18:49):
you know what I'm saying. We just do things. Hip
hop is ours, bro, so we don't got to make
excuses why we're the dopes. Sad it's ours that don't
mean that this dope worldly because there are you like
there are salute to them, but this is OUs and
we should be the dopest. And that's that, you know
what I'm saying.

Speaker 6 (19:10):
Like Drake has had a run on top for a
long time though.

Speaker 1 (19:13):
And he's still gonna make music and still be dope.
Ve Drake. At the end of the day, they ain't
gonna stop Drake. You know what I'm saying. But listen, man, hey,
this is what hip hop is, man. Hip hop is
going to get the top. Kendrick got tired of and
he win got him. What's the problem with it? You
think it's over? It's been like, No, it's not over.
Over high that men is most Do you think the

(19:34):
battle's over? It should be? Oh yeah, yeah, after the
LA thing? What what what can Drake do the yeah,
of course Drake's not coming back from that. I don't
think it's over. It's over. I think he tries to
pull a place sometimes to the son the third person
that says over, it's over, it's over. Why would he

(19:55):
still Why would he even want to keep going? What
use is he gonna say? How many songs are we
gonna make? It's done. I don't even think that people
want it any more. People don't even want it. He
may be dealing what they exhausted are at this point.
People are exhausted. They don't want it. They want that
to be the end. And it's great because what Kendrick
did would spark spark up. Listen, if Kendrick can spark

(20:16):
pride on the coast and that maybe.

Speaker 5 (20:19):
Could bring together for each other. Then, man, what's bigger
than that?

Speaker 1 (20:23):
What's more? But I don't want to see a whole
bunch of gang bang on stage at a rep. But
it's not even about that, though, loom, because that's that's
their life, that's generation. But I'm saying in LA, that's
generations of that, and then think that they grew. That's
all a lot of them, you know, And I respect it.
If it wasn't at a concert what Kendrick has, why

(20:44):
not wrapped the theme and it should have been, But
he's that the catalyst of this whole thing.

Speaker 5 (20:51):
It's all right, got up there and represented not just
basketball players, NBA ball players, women, kids, everybody then entire Yeah,
but I've.

Speaker 1 (21:00):
Been snitched on and told on in the streets. So
it's right only on the city because for me, it dude,
because I can have a thousand and it's my traded.

Speaker 4 (21:09):
I can have a thousand in here at any moment
you see me by myself.

Speaker 1 (21:14):
It is because I know the streets, don't it don't phase?
All right, that's all right, faith, that's all right, that's
all right. But the optics of that, it was it
was it was bigger than that. The optics of that
was bigger than that. Then went up there and Kendrick
brought everybody and Kendrick was rocking Tupac. When Pop came
to my awards show, I spoke to when Pop did that.

(21:35):
You know what I'm saying. It's funny that we could
segue because when Pop did that at the ninety four
Sauce Awards, and he grabbed the mic first of all,
when I told the story, I thought he grabbed the
mic from q Tip, and q Tip me and q
Tip finally had a conversation on the phone. He reached
out to me and he said he wanted to tell
me what happened. I respect him so much for that,

(21:57):
and I was I was so grateful to have that
conversation because Q Tip's a legend, and you know, he's
not a hip hop hip Hop has so many different
genres that you know, Q Tip didn't come up from gangster,
hip hop and street. Then he came up from making music,
most of it jazz influenced, and we loved it. And

(22:19):
his voice was was different and unique and his style
was unique. And rest in peace to Fife resting peace
to Chris Lidie because you know, tribe called Quest is
a legendary group. And he said that night that Park
never snatched it from him. Number one, he said he
snatched it from there. It was in front of the podium,

(22:40):
so we took it off the podium. He also said
that after that, you know what I'm saying, that there
was a bunch of his guys that want to, you
know what I'm saying, I guess, you know, have a
conversation with Pac. And I think he mentioned that they
had some type of conversation. He just wanted to be
known that he just didn't go out like that. So
what was the story? Jo? I mean, because you know

(23:00):
when when Tupac grabbed it, I thought he grabbed it
from him and did out on Bill because he had
won the award and the pot wasn't supposed to be performing.
Nobody knew he was gonna perform. He just went up
there with the outlaws and just grabbed the mic and
did out on Bill. And when I seen it, did
they have music playing on? Did it a combat? I
held it the sound man hostage. I've done that, you

(23:23):
know what I'm saying? Yeah, you know what I mean.
So it was real like I but but it was
one of the dopest performances to this day I've ever seen.
But q Tib didn't take that lightly Like, No, he
didn't snatch it from He didn't snatch it from me.
Yeah he did it. Who did he snatch it from?
He took it because there was in front of a podium. Okay,
so he took off the podium. Nick got ward he
was saying his acceptance speech. But I remember when it

(23:45):
came back. I do remember one of them crying and
they was upset. It wasn't q Tip and it wasn't Fife,
it was the other one. He was a little upset
and he was a little you know what I'm saying.
And uh, and it was just it was just a
crazy moment. But you know what I'm saying. When I've
seen Kendrick wearing what Pop had on, he just did
everything right, man, And you got to salute it and

(24:07):
and and I saluted And that's what hip hop is like.
People don't realize hip hop is like.

Speaker 5 (24:14):
When when we used to get brought parties, hip hop
was just outside with the worst the street.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
Yeah, it was in a battle. See in the context
of a battle when you.

Speaker 4 (24:24):
Pull up there, he got the new Hope King on
the shirt like it's it's surrounding the Drake battle.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
So to have all these come out, that's exactly how
he was supposed to do it. I would have did it,
and anybody else would I wouldn't have done it. Oh no, no, no,
that was a show of force that man, that that's
gonna go that that moment is gonna go down to history.
And it was a great moment. It was a great moment.
And I want to clear be clear with that too,
because I don't want.

Speaker 4 (24:48):
People to think I don't know with Kendrick or what's
going on. So I definitely with Kendrick, I definitely can
appreciate all those different hoods being on their stage, but
I know it's fake when they get off their stage,
them hood still at it.

Speaker 1 (25:01):
I steal a lot going oh but at one moment,
but listen, you rap in this industry now use the
streets too long for these pictures, and this is going on.
So I'm saying, and I done. I gotta go visit
the burn sites. Man, do you sending flames in the street?
And I gotta go talk to the mothers. I'm grassroots.

(25:21):
So when I see a bunch of gang banging, I'm
starting to beat. As I get older, I'm starting to
push back on it. This is rap eat. No matter
how bad Deontay Wilder getting his ass beat in the ring,
his coach and everybody else got to stay on the outside.
So I'm saying, these two men are having about these
two men are having a boxing match. I don't understand why.

(25:42):
So that's not what hip hop is. Hip hop is
about battling. And then after you representing, they gonna stand
by you, and and and and and and it needs
to be in the middle of the bat and it
needs to be seen the middle of the beginning there.
And you know, I'm all for it. That was an
amazing move. See sometimes you just make great moves. That
was a waiting.

Speaker 5 (26:00):
Everything that Kendrick has done thus far, he has done
damn it like perfect.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
I agree with you any more like dropping dropping all
those joints in a barrage and in the order of
him dropping it flawed and then him going up there flawless.
I think it was too aggressive. I think too many
people it was too aggressive. No fighting to be a

(26:28):
I think it was great for West Coast. I think
it was great for Kendrick his career.

Speaker 4 (26:33):
But to wrap the drakes around it and then this
be what I'm listening posed to.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
He was supposed to. That was his, that was his,
that was his grounds, that's his stomping ground. He was
supposed to. Yeah, and I know I know for a
fact for that moment, because man, a lot of us. Man, man,
you know it's hard, you know, but we have to
live for these moments, you know what I'm saying, because
they come far and few, and we where we can

(27:00):
get moments to unify, and we can get get moments.
You know, the last time LA unified, it was at
Nipsey's funeral. So look at that somber moment. You know,
this was way doper and it was this gang members
and everybody there too, you know what I'm saying. So
it's about moments, and listen, I come from this like
I literally come from this. I am the truth, truth, Truth.

(27:22):
So my thing is.

Speaker 4 (27:24):
I'm with these children down here in the ghetto, man,
and I'm seeing what these flags is doing. And again,
the West Coast is different because they all rooted in it.

Speaker 1 (27:34):
They can't run from it, right, you rooted in landfather
was in it. Yeah, yeah, I'm saying so they rooted
in in a totally different way. But you know from
a battle perspective. Now, No, you keep saying battle, battle,
and I've come from the beginning of hip hop. That's
what battle is. We used to get battle. That is
exactly what battle rap is. Tell me how I'm when

(27:55):
smack them do a battle? Tell me how is it too?
I don't get them for SMA, way before smack, of course,
way before smacks. The official the original battles was you
would go in your part, you'd give block parties and
you would bring out your systems and your part of
the neighborhoods and you would be rocking about and you'd
be talking about them and you'd be you know what
I'm saying, that they would give something over where there

(28:16):
was and they'd have their blocks come out, you'd have yours.
That's what it was. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (28:22):
From west Side, the one that got the mic right,
and one person had the mic.

Speaker 1 (28:26):
You know what I'm saying, one person had the mic.
That was the show of support and that's been a
part of battle wrapping since day one. When you talk
about smacking them, that's smacking them and they're performing everybody's
that's a difference. You ac smack got a battle round.
That's a different exist. Okay, I'm trying to original appointed

(28:46):
that's not yeah, but that's not the that's not the
original of what but it more around it all and
we at this ain't all. That's not more off. That's
just a that's just a side. That's something that's over
that's that's over there with that the you don't think
smack is battle rap today, that's where the battle rap is. Smack.

Speaker 5 (29:04):
Smack is a is a type of battle rap of
what battle rap? That is battle rights not no, no,
definitely isn't battle No, that's not what battle rap was.

Speaker 1 (29:10):
That's that's a type of battle rap where people get
together and yell at each other and the OK. Fine,
But battle rap back in the day was, man, we
set up in our hoods and we got our block
behind us, and we wrapping. They chat for us, and
you're gonna set up and they chat for you and
y'all going at each other. It's smack changed. No no, no, no,
it didn't.

Speaker 5 (29:29):
You're r L smacking and that hold on because Kendrick
just did something bigger than anything Smack's ever done.

Speaker 1 (29:35):
Right, but more than that shows you that they didn't
change it. What Kendrick did was brought the essence of
what hip hop and battling is. He was in l A.
He brought everybody that supported him up. That's that's doubt him.
That's saying it's like he is like he couldn't the
match because to me, how's he Quinton match? He just won? Yeah?
That all what I'm saying is like he thinking that

(29:56):
the match is over because to meet over that's more
so so I don't think so you don't not on stage.
And that's the artist as big as Drake. And it's
what what Okay, mesk your question? What could Drake do
to top that? That's what I'm saying. I can't give
him that advice. I'm asking you. That's what I'm saying.
I can't hypothetically, no, no, no advice. What could he

(30:16):
do hypothetically the top that? I don't know, not Drake,
because I mean because Kendrick took care of his business,
so I ain't ar gonna get But I'm telling you,
I don't believe it's over. You don't go on stage
and do that. What else? What else could Drake do? Well,
he has a stage to go on as well. What
stage he's on? Tours lit with a bunch of chicks

(30:38):
and a bunch of things like, it's not gonna be
the same thing. It's not the same thing. You're right,
you know what I'm saying. And he's alienated, like he
don't really have a lot of Toronto, Canada. Kendrick bout Drake,
I mean dre up. He balled Jake, Drake of ground
history is one of the best to ever do it.

(30:59):
And nobody can ever take him away from that. Drake
is dope. Drake's songs are dope. But this particular situation
when it comes to this, this battle rap but rap
in the streets of America have been together since the
South Bronx day one. It comes from a struggling people
of the streets. That's what this is. And he got

(31:20):
over a long time dipping and dodging. You know, Pusher
went at him. That didn't turn out so bad, but
Kendrick went a lot further, and and and and and
and and can In Kendrick's mind, Kendrick is battling him
Pusher tried. You know, Pusha did with with what you're
talking about. You know what I'm saying lyrically, now, Kendrick

(31:42):
is like nah my Kendrick pushing the line. Kendrick like
bro hip hop is more than just lyrics and everything.
Hip hop is life you ro hop is the hood.
Hip hop is these people you know say I'm hip
hop not without all my people. See I'm near without
all my people with me. See That's what I'm saying.

(32:03):
When what I mean even without the people he dabbed
him and all the songs, So what else does he
have to do? He already did that. But again it
could be it could be him looking at it as
the matches over. This is the end.

Speaker 5 (32:16):
If anything, Kendrick is ready for more. If anything, Kendrick
got ten more salt that is even gonna probably be worse.

Speaker 1 (32:22):
Like what do you mean now? What you mean?

Speaker 5 (32:25):
Like again, tend record is making you think that he
Kendrick destroyed Jake Drake at this.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
I believe I'm with you on that.

Speaker 5 (32:33):
So so what it could make you think that there's
nothing else because I think Drake.

Speaker 1 (32:37):
Still has the ability to do a timestamp record. They're
still right. So if you know Drake, and if you
know Drake and you know his catalog, you get into
those times. Song what song can he come back against?
Kendrick right now? After Yeah, he's he's in a bad place.
It's over, bro, It's done.

Speaker 4 (32:57):
Everybody, kid, You ain't the only person that saying over
two or three people and told me they believe this
to be it.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
This is all I just see. I look at it, like,
what else could he do? Now? The only thing that
he might could do is if he did a whole
big thing in Toronto and had guys come up on
stage in Toronto. Maybe that No, that won't hit. Well,
that's it. Then it's over. That's it. It's dumb, see
because Kendrick does.

Speaker 6 (33:22):
Have the culture with him when and that's.

Speaker 1 (33:24):
What the That's what hip hop is long, it's the culture.
It's us, it's ours.

Speaker 5 (33:28):
It's from the streets of America, not America, the corporate
not America.

Speaker 1 (33:33):
The no, the streets where they stuck us in. You
know what I'm saying, up conditions. They thought that we
was gonna just not then outcome this. Yeah so yeah, no, no, no, no,
that's what hip hop is because what when hip hop came.
Rap wasn't even rapid in nineteen seventy three with hip

(33:54):
hop was brought for a rapper wasn't even around. It
was d jaying and it was about m seeing Yes, yeah,
sure we in the building, y'all. Pup up out. Rap
came a few years later. It all morphed and developed.
But hip hop came from the the the I mean,
the South Bronx was. If you go back and see
what the South Bronx looked like in seventy three, it
was one of the worst hords in the world, holds

(34:15):
in the world, never mind just America. Right, So that's
what hip hop came out of. Were gonna look at
hip hop that it just doesn't rap, you know what
I'm sah, it's bigger than that.

Speaker 5 (34:24):
It's it's I'm just us saying like, yeah, America, but yeah,
you stuck it in.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
Look at all the trillions it does that came out
of this from that the f see but see.

Speaker 4 (34:36):
And then I think, like I said, I think Drake
has an opportunity to answer back Willie answer bag.

Speaker 1 (34:41):
No looing, it's over man. So listen, Drake just needs
to keep making music for the for he has he
has a big fan base. Hip hop is a worldly
fan base. You know what I'm saying. There's a lot
of different demographics of hip hop and lanes of hip hop.
Drake just needs to keep doing him. Kendrick needs to
keep doing him. This was a moment in history, you

(35:01):
know what I'm saying. And Kendrick won. It's all right,
It's okay, Kendrick can win. It's not the end of
the world. You know what I'm saying. You know what
I'm saying, Like, yeah, he's an American. You know what
I'm saying. Like when the Olympics, I'm gonna be chaired
for Chikari. I'm not gonna be chairing for nobody else.
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (35:20):
When when when Kevin Drandon to play, I'm gonna be
chairing for Team USA.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
Like with the and Kendrick done a good job.

Speaker 4 (35:27):
It's separating, separating us from Drake in that way, making
us look at him more so, Like, Yo, you from
over there, you run down with baby to do this.

Speaker 1 (35:37):
You go over to the truth, bro.

Speaker 5 (35:39):
You just he just he just told definitely set over
dope beats, and he said it with some dope rhyme styles.

Speaker 1 (35:45):
And that's what makes that's what makes him Kendrick right now,
salut to Kendrick. Lamar Man saluted Drake too. You know
what I'm saying, like both Staples and hip hop. You
know what I'm saying, Like my kids love Drake. You
know what I'm saying, my kids love Kendrick. There's enough
of it for everybody, and let's just move on because
at the end of the day, you know what, after La,
that's it. It's over. It's over there in the confidence.

Speaker 4 (36:07):
Yeah, let's get back to the source magazine. How many
times did y'all deal with Tupac? I actually did a
song with Pop. You know what I'm saying, in the
studio with him for real? Yeah, they're called so on
it's on YouTube.

Speaker 1 (36:19):
You know what I'm saying. What kind of individual was Pop?
Just Pop? From what I met, was just a real, real,
hyper intelligent leadership, like you could see leadership like you
know what I'm saying. I don't. I don't. They don't
see too much, too much too much leadership, right and
the ones who do have leaders they just be disrespecting it.
I don't like that anyway. That's not leadership to me,

(36:42):
but real leadership when you respect you in a way
of trying to teach it. He was a teacher, always
trying to really wake people up from situations. From the
time I was with him, That's what I seen, you
know what I mean. Uh. As far as dealing with
him with the Soul, it's just at the ninety four
Source Awards when he made his impromptu performance, so he

(37:04):
never was in the magazine. And of course I'm saying
magazine everything else. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, hell yeah. So
how many times you don't know? Twice? Okay, okay, twice
we did your extensive Yeah, like arms.

Speaker 4 (37:19):
How did the unsigned Hype and the mic system work?

Speaker 1 (37:23):
The Unsigned Hype was Maddie c was the responsible for that.
So Maddie would kind of, you know, scour at that
point New York City and then other people that would
be sending them tapes and he'd listen and he'd really listen.
Back then, those guys really says, I give them credit
because they really listened to your music and try to
you know what the guys do now that what do
you call them? On YouTube?

Speaker 5 (37:43):
And they they was doing the source of the first
ones to do that, the Reactors.

Speaker 1 (37:48):
It was the first one. See you know, Unsigned Hype
and the five Mics was just the staff. We would
always get the music from different labels and then they
would sit down and rate the music and that's how
we would you know, Rolling Stone had a mix, had
a rating system and that's who we got it from.
I didn't know that. Yeah, well Rolling Stone was the

(38:08):
first music magazine and they was there was the blueprint,
you know, that's what you I remember you just said
there was the blueprint. Wow, Yon Winner, Yon Winner, you know,
I think there was Dave's hero. Dave wanted to be
the Yon Winner of hip hop. He was. He was
the publisher for Rolling Stone in thew Yark. When I
look over your history, especially on YouTube, they they have

(38:30):
a lot of videos where it seems like you used
source to brand yourself. That's listen. Oprah Magazine Oprah, right,
she has a magazine called Oh. Guess Who's on the
cover of the magazine every month?

Speaker 5 (38:45):
Oprah Russell Simmons did fat farm. Guess who was in
every ad modeling his sweaters?

Speaker 1 (38:52):
Is Oprah? Is every cover of Oh, every cover of
all Oprah's on it, every single cover of Oh, Oprah's
on every cover. You know, what I'm saying on every
I didn't know that a lot of people don't mean. Listen,
you would be a fool not to market yourself if.

Speaker 5 (39:09):
Your sweet spot, if you no, no, there isn't so
there's one hundred percent of sweet.

Speaker 1 (39:14):
You would be a fool if you have something successful
and you don't market yourself. Yeah, but you lose your
You lose you. And we never did. And you gave
yourself that I have mics and people. We never did.
We never did. We know like we used to have.
We used to no, no, no, no, no no. Look
at ninety four people ninety four. What happened was they

(39:37):
put an article about the Source magazine in nineteen ninety
four about my RAP group. Also, we had we had
already had four We've been signed to RAP a lot,
We've been signed to all these different people. Easy was
going to give us a deal and he put an
article on us. The rest of the guy said it
was wrong because we didn't deserve it. Now, this is

(39:58):
my man. For all these years, I've been hold them down.
You know what I'm saying. My men and the rest
of the guys felt like we didn't deserve it because
we're from Boston. So they said that they'll walk out
if Dave doesn't step down. They all they fired all
of them, that his three partners brought them out and
made me fifty percent part and from nineteen ninety four on,

(40:20):
the Source made millions and millions of dollars.

Speaker 4 (40:23):
Yeah, but no, but yes, no, I'm talking about when
I'm talking about after ninety four.

Speaker 1 (40:28):
This is when you WA's when they walked out. That
was the walk That's when I was involved. That's when
they walked out. But I'm saying when I was looking
at it, I think they're looking at but you're looking
at things that they may said. This though, what a
glad TV.

Speaker 5 (40:41):
I'm going to please do nineteen ninety four the source,
he said, you gave five mics and then they decided
to walk out or something.

Speaker 1 (40:50):
No, no, no, you get the stories wrong. They walked
out in ninety four. They walked out in ninety four,
and like anything that I did up there, Dave agreed
to do it. So we we did everything together. So
Dave didn't say none of that. That's one thing about
the internet. If you don't if you don't listen to
it right properly, then you know you're gonna end up
not knowing that the true story and stuff.

Speaker 4 (41:10):
Okay, then it says quitting over Benzino, hold on what
he said?

Speaker 1 (41:15):
Hold on, hold on, We're gonna get into it. This
is not all good conversation because because I want to
hear what your thoughts are. The people want to se
the truth. I don't know what you two got. This
Dave made right and we're gonna they made just the
We walked out over five nights. We finished. That's wrong,

(41:36):
we finished seeing us. I'm ready, come on without making
it personal. Hold on here, it is Kim Osorio.

Speaker 4 (41:44):
The source writers walked out after Benzino five nights rating
from play.

Speaker 1 (41:50):
You never heard that play. I get Kim on the
phone right now, we can call him. That's plaucause. I
want to be I want to be historic now. But no,
but yeah, but you you gotta be right. You gotta
get your facts right now. You know what I'm saying.
You gotta get your fact well. You know because because
because nobody walk because nobody walked out of the five mics,
that's wrong. Because you just said that it is again

(42:13):
it's YouTube. Though it's YouTube, I'm saying it. That's not
make that's what YouTube said. You know, this is what
the light people. So somebody said, right now for the
guys raining raining lizards, does that make it.

Speaker 4 (42:24):
True now because they ain't seen lizards and when they
ain't known for seeing so low.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
People worked with you. Okay, well you gotta bring it,
show me like where it's true, show you home. Give
me a second about because much time as you want,
we're here. All right, Let's see the office and the
best job I pat and I coo. I hired her.

Speaker 7 (42:48):
By the way, I'm trying to think right. So many
things happened, like I can remember vividly, moments like when
jay Z played the Blueprint album or when they so
there were moments later.

Speaker 1 (43:05):
Awards to stuff.

Speaker 7 (43:06):
I mean back then there was a committee.

Speaker 5 (43:09):
So we had you know, the five my committee, and.

Speaker 7 (43:13):
I think it had to be like seven.

Speaker 1 (43:16):
Or other people.

Speaker 7 (43:18):
Make we made sure we had like a West Coast rep,
a southern corresponding it like, we tried to balance it
out with different musical styles, knowing that people had different
backgrounds when it was part of the music department.

Speaker 8 (43:30):
So in addition to that, we would have a writing door.
A few would get a vote as well, but a
lot of times artists assumed that people who were writing
were review for action giving the mics out.

Speaker 7 (43:45):
So, I mean I had an issue before it even worked.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
A compliters here we go. I just want to know,
though it's funny that you think God makes it, I'm
not fair made you. You're telling me I made this up.
You made a statement just now to me and said
that that people walked out, and I'm telling you that
that didn't happen.

Speaker 4 (44:04):
Okay, So this lady's allied, not loan, No, but like
that's I'm still I just want to be sure we're
on the same plage.

Speaker 1 (44:13):
I feel like, did you don't get it? So fine?

Speaker 4 (44:15):
If you might say he gave him, I'm not saying
he gave his off five bike.

Speaker 8 (44:21):
I'll nobody gave me going on bib bike. I think
that's when everybody you know shouts out.

Speaker 1 (44:28):
To you know, because that is on me. But I
felt like that was the point when everybody started being like,
oh word, yeah, I.

Speaker 7 (44:40):
Don't want Pim getting that south.

Speaker 1 (44:42):
Okay, she just said it right there to Scout had none.
I had none to do with. That was in ninety four.

Speaker 7 (44:48):
They got like four and a half night just through
and that would look for it.

Speaker 1 (44:52):
Okay, something like that. It was something like that, all right,
And so the staff walked out.

Speaker 8 (44:58):
They liked a lot of stuff.

Speaker 1 (44:59):
So so here's here's what we're dealing with. We're dealing
with Lord Jamal. Because that's the podcast this is you
could see. I want you to see that. Yeah, yeah,
I know. I want to talk about it because it's
important to know.

Speaker 5 (45:16):
Okay, so let me so let me explain what happened. So, okay,
a couple of things. So, like I said in ninety four,
well ware go, okay, we'll speed up. So I hired
Kim Osorio as the first.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
Woman editor of the Sauce magazine. She was the very
first one. She was because prior to that it was
only men.

Speaker 5 (45:31):
I gave her and she was a Puerto Rican woman,
the first editor.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
That was a major move. People didn't like that. There
was a lot of men up there that was upset.
But I did that. They didn't even do that. I
did around the Eminem time. Okay, that's when the Eminem
war started happening. This was the later years in the
source and this was in the two thousands, and it
was a situation like what happened was when we was beef.

(45:57):
When me and Eminem was going back and forth, it
was like it was tense between me and the journalism
because some of them people liked Eminem and back, but
at that point Eminem had already been disrespecting us, so
it was like all bets were off. We had got
the racist tapes. They had sued the Source Magazine for

(46:18):
copyright infrigement. We had to go to federal court. We
ended up winning that case and I ended up paying
for our lawyers. We would want a landmark decision.

Speaker 5 (46:25):
We was able to put the racist tapes vacuum sale
and put it in as a special part of the
Source magazine.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
Because we was the first one to expose the racist tapes.
But yes, say, I'm gonna get to that well. But
at that time the staff was like, you know, like
at that point, it's like I'm writing a check some
of the boss and I never did that before. I
never put myself in on any mic writing pride to that. Remember,
I've been with Sources day one. I never sat in
on a MIC rating because I always let them do

(46:52):
their jobs. I would never get in front of anybody's job.
At that point, I had to flex my power though,
because this was bigger than them. We beefing against Eminem
and then with beefing against any scope, and with beefing
against Universal. So anybody who's not with that, you can
be replaced. This was a very tense time for everybody
at that point. You know, we was already in the

(47:14):
war at this time. So you know when when our
album was coming out, then there was rated mart right,
they want to give us three and a half, and
I gave us for I put it up to four
and a half. Now, I don't remember anybody walking out
because everybody still got their checks and nobody got fired,
so I don't remember that, but they might have been
upset about it, you know what I'm saying. But that

(47:37):
one time I had to pull my nuts out and
put on table and be like, look, this is my
sh Anybody who don't like it, y'all get out. See integrity,
that don't pay the bills, that don't keep the lights on. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (47:51):
But but when you do that right, when you do that,
coupled with a couple of different other things, you could
start to be viewed as the brand that the eminem
hater brand, or the brand that.

Speaker 1 (48:02):
Did hurt eminem So we was and do you think
they cost you the company? Though? No, hell no. What
caused the company was the actual the development of the
Internet and the actual when Dave took out a twelve
million dollar loan like in nineteen ninety seven started source
dot com and they crashed and we lost everything and

(48:23):
we owed the bank thirty forty million dollars. Who did
he go through? Do you know what? I don't know
who you have to ask? Not what? Money wise? This
what was the idea for the digital source dot com?
Like him and Steve Stout? Was it a world star?
Was it a news No, they was gonna develop a
website that every They had the idea, which was a
brilliant idea, and they seen it. They foreseen the future.

(48:44):
It was him and Steve Stout and h. Edward Young
and they said, look, this is the future. This is
where the advertising is gonna come. You know what I'm saying,
This is where we're gonna be getting advertising from. It's
all gonna transfer here. Now. At that time, wasn't no
smart phone. Computers were just these big ass you know boxes.
It was still like hardware is floppy disk. So Dave

(49:06):
and said that everything we're gonna be the first ones.
He took out the loan and opened up a new
office on Fifth Avenue, Sauce dot Com Fifth Avenue. I
was totally against it because I didn't know nothing about it.
So I let him do all those means. See, I
did the Souce Awards Source Hip Hop Hits that sold
five million Sauce Awards Source all Access TV source that

(49:29):
we gave Ray j his first dot on UPN thirty three.
I was doing. That was all me. That was my
Sauce behind bars like that was that was the JC
Penny Clothing company. We're putting source logos I did. I
was doing those dips. I got five million dollars cash
from Russell Simmons for the Source hip Hop Hits. Just
the compilation of albums, just the people who was on

(49:50):
the covers of the year put their biggest songs on there,
and then things were selling the worldwide.

Speaker 5 (49:55):
So you know, Dave did that. I trusted him as
my partner, but he made that move.

Speaker 1 (50:00):
She made that decision. Now I rode with him. We
ended up own the bank. Bob Johnson wanted to buy
the Source of fifty five million we had old the
bank thirty something million. I turned it down, you know
what I'm saying. You know, so you know people like
I said, I don't, I don't. I don't get too
worried about what's being said, what's being her because I

(50:21):
actually lived it.

Speaker 4 (50:22):
And no, but I'm saying, I'm saying, like, if I
take this platform right here, you got two or three
hundred thousand people listening in a month. If I started
every time the bash ben Zeno, I lose some of
my fans. I lose some of the people that want
to hear about the game I got or what I've
been through, or that want to hit me interview people.

Speaker 1 (50:43):
So that's what I'm saying. Do you believe that with
you being over aggressive like that, that you come I definitely,
I definitely, I definitely would what it did different. You
know what I'm saying. I definitely wouldn't have put business
in with the with my personal battle because what does
it hurt you if you get a three and a
half like no, no, no, no, no, no no. But I

(51:04):
did that. I did that on purpose, I know.

Speaker 4 (51:06):
But I'm saying, if you had a feel back from that,
what is it hurt that that's our ego?

Speaker 1 (51:12):
That's all like pride and ego. Of course it was
one hundred percent and and and and like I said,
I definitely would have did it different. You know, like when.

Speaker 4 (51:20):
It seems like though you've gotten far with your ego
and stuff. It's gotten you so far, but then in
that moment, it played against.

Speaker 1 (51:27):
You, It played against me. And you know at that point,
at that point, it was like like I said, you know,
we had old the bank. I got indicted around that time.
Everything started falling apart, like right around that time. So
you know, things happened. You know what I'm saying. You living,
you learn, and uh, the Eminem situation, I still tend
toes down with that. We was the source magazine. We were

(51:49):
supposed to show those tapes, were supposed to go at him.
We're supposed to hold a press conferdence.

Speaker 2 (51:55):
In the press release and Xeno and Me announced they
would be playing a teeth of Eminem wrapping racists.

Speaker 3 (52:02):
We didn't say that what's on his tape? To take that,
Three white kids from Detroit walked into Dave's office, brought
and said, listen, this is the real Eminem and wait
and we're tired of it's we got to make this
the same way that you guys have treated Mike Tyson.

Speaker 1 (52:17):
You guys are treating Kobe Bryant, you guys have treated R.
Kelly O. J. Simpson. We can we can hear the music. Now,
think of a more you know, important pivotal moment, uh
in our history, sources history, you know, our personal history?
Is that been right here tonight? Black women are bad,

(52:38):
White women are good.

Speaker 9 (52:39):
I don't care if he's redeemed hisself. Now that's not
the message. And if that's what he is, then he
has to be held accountable for that. I want to
see what he's gonna say.

Speaker 1 (52:51):
Now. The ball's in his is in his court. Now
we did hold a p I know. But were you suppose?
Was that over Dan? Why wouldn't we Why would why
wouldn't you hold the president? If who's the biggest artist
right Let's say, who's the biggest white artist right now?
Jack Harlow? Who Jack Harlow? No, the biggest white artist,
Not Jack Harlow. Who's the biggest I'm saying not rapper artists?

(53:14):
Oh oh oh? Male artist? Who's the biggest biggas singer?
Anybody right now? Golf Brooks, Tim McGraw. I let's say
Tim McGraw had his song back in the day talking
about black today, right and it came out, do you
know that would be the number one thing on Twitter
and TMZ right now, right now. So we did nothing wrong.
We was TMZ, we was Twitter, we was the Internet.

(53:37):
We did what we were supposed to do. We didn't
go looking for that tape. Then white boys popped up
in the sauce office trying to get fifty bands. I
gave him fifteen. They said he made the tape at
twenty one years old. They told us everything where a
magazine publication of news.

Speaker 5 (53:54):
Music coulture like we were supposed to, just like everybody else.

Speaker 1 (53:59):
Would right now, that makes sense.

Speaker 4 (54:02):
I mean I can't I can't really push back on that,
but I think coupled with your beef with him, well,
it felt like you was something.

Speaker 1 (54:09):
The doctor at get started it.

Speaker 5 (54:11):
If I didn't have beef for them, them them dudes
was never bringing that tape to me. If I never
had beef, they had the tape for years. He made
the tape years ago when he was twenty one, not sixteen.
He never had no black girlfriends. Oh, but the bottom
line is the tape's been out. He was trying to
sell it to Earth guarding him. He was just asking

(54:32):
too much for it. Niggas wasn't buying it. But they
made a whole rat racist hour tape. I got to
go to federal court for that ship for what because
Jimmy and them suit us.

Speaker 1 (54:41):
Because we had the tape and they choose for copyright infringement.
First they said it wasn't him. Then they said, Okay,
it's him, y'all shouldn't have it. We're gonna suit you
and we won. Ban So what the chips fell the
way they fell? And I played the chips the way
I was. I was a guy that grew up against

(55:03):
racism and that and that and that. I wasn't with it,
So I reacted based on who I am. I can't
I can't speak for anybody else.

Speaker 4 (55:15):
Right, But with with the magazine, how much in how
involved were you with the business side of it?

Speaker 1 (55:22):
I made all all the decisions. I hired the editor
in chief. You know what I'm saying. I came up
with this. So how were you running? How were you
making these big boy claud and Dave letting Dave know
the plays and Dave were gonna run the play just
like a coach. Same. I'm coaching from the from the things,
the boxes, and Dave got the headset on and Dave's

(55:44):
handling accordingly. Because Dave was this guy notes brilliant. I
was the creative. I was streets. I was hip hop.

Speaker 5 (55:55):
I had been hip hop since eleven years old, from
the South Bronx, you know, and my grandfather's basement all
the way to Boston with block parties in Rissol and
made Man and you know what I'm saying, Yeah, do you?

Speaker 1 (56:07):
And I never got credit for all that, but I
didn't want it because I was getting millions of dollars
and I was traveling the world doing amazing. Wasn't doing
nothing right? Because you was bawling back in the day,
Oh my god, you have no it was. It was
millions and millions of dollars and this was in the
early two thousands.

Speaker 4 (56:27):
Yeah, I heard you once. I heard you say that
you had more money than Jay Z.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
One hundred and did it one hundred percent? One hundred percent?
Was it not even closed or I don't think it
was close At my height back then, I don't think.
I don't think so. How much money we talking. I mean,
we was getting sauce. We was getting a couple of
million a month, a few million a month just from
advertis I'm talking about you though, I mean I was spending.
If you look at Jay back then and look at you,

(56:53):
like how much you think I got indicted for taxes
because I was spending millions and millions of dollars. So
you know, I could just go that they wasn't spending
millions of dollars. They wasn't doing They didn't have money
like that. They'll tell you or what they reinvest in it.
I'm saying that, I don't whatever. Maybe you were blowing it.

Speaker 5 (57:10):
I'm just saying, no, no, they didn't have it. They
didn't have that type of cash that I had.

Speaker 1 (57:15):
They just did it. They had record deals. I owned
the whole magazine, and I was getting record deals. I
had a whole I got eight hundred thousand from Electra
I got. I was signed to Motown. I got seven
hundred thousand dollars advance from them while I was doing
Source magazine. Right, you know, filthy, you know what I mean,
doing crazy like you know what I'm saying, like just

(57:37):
taking private jets and having hotel Miami, renting out the
biggest penthouses and five hotel rooms the Beverly Hills Suite,
staying there for three months at at twelve hundred dollars
a night in the back, the bungalows in the back,
not the regular rooms. Jacob million, two million dollars cash
with jewelry, bought the whole staff, jewelry and all that.
Why you even pay the taxes on it?

Speaker 5 (58:00):
I mean, Dave was supposed to do. You really didn't
know David? No, I don't because I never questioned Dave.
Dave handled the business and everything. I was getting money.

Speaker 1 (58:07):
When so y'all were indicted as a team, I gotta
dieted by myself. See that don't make sense, surely don't.
But it was what it was. That's crazy, very you know,
it is what it is. You know. So he paid
his tax as far as you man, listen, he didn't

(58:28):
get indicted I did, you know. But you know what
I'm saying, I got nothing bad to say about Dave. Dave,
Me and Dave accomplished so much amazing. But why don't
y'all talk now? Seeing y'all you know what I'm saying.
It's personal, you know, what I'm saying, not everything for
that yet. It's like it's like, you know, we and
Davis together for like twenty years, every day, every day,

(58:49):
just naturally. It was time he got married. It was
time he just go and do his own night. It
was just time natural, It was a natural thing God said.
It can't question God. You know what I'm saying. The
way life is life, life is phases. You're not gonna
be around all your life. You know what I'm saying,
You're gonna transition, especially the way life is moving now.

(59:10):
You transition because especially for older guys, if you're not
adapting and adjusting on the fly, then you're gonna get
left behind and you're gonna get Yeah, I ain't got
time to worry about who's not with me. I only
got time to worry about who's with me. Back then,
what was jade z n did it? Like? What were they?
What they I didn't? I didn't know. You know, both
of them were quiet. Dave dealt with the business on

(59:31):
them and I'm sure you know they had their big
ego driven to we all egos. They knew who I was.
You know what I'm saying, How you money up? Don't
I didn't. I didn't put the money up. I spent
it and and and and hell and no, no, no
not really, because well, you know the object of life
is to live. You know what I'm saying. I lived it.
I lived. I had a hell of a run. Live

(59:52):
and keep living though. Yeah I'm still living still. Yeah,
but you was. You was in front of Jay and Diddy.
Think about that statement, like you took off and you
was in front of all of them, right, and you say,
I'm a street I'm a hustler from the street like
it ain't no way, I just play up. And you know,
you know, I helped a lot of people. I gave
away a lot of money, digit a lot. Hey, man, boy,

(01:00:17):
Robin Hood ain't on the zeaster. Believe that. Yeah, man,
I gave away I was man. I was very very
generous to a lot a lot of people. Man, you
know what I'm saying. And you know what my mentality
where I made a mistake was I took the superstreet
mentality of any time I got up, anytime I got
my bag, I would take my profit off top and

(01:00:39):
got off. Get a bunch of knights all bring the
plugs from the from Because I was such a hustler
that I knew that I could go back tomorrow and
give it again. And that's how I just looked at life.

Speaker 4 (01:00:49):
It wasn't see I'm the re up king, Like if
soon I get enough to re up. I want more
product than I want money when I'm in the street.

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
I've always been.

Speaker 4 (01:00:58):
That I want I want more pro then I want
money because the product gets my money.

Speaker 1 (01:01:02):
I always I just I just was always I'm going
to get more product because I don't. It don't matter
because I'm always gonna. I'm always gonna, like I just, man,
that's what I'm saying. Man, I always got money. Man,
getting money was never a problem, even like right now,
like even in the situation, Man, I still you know
what I'm saying, I don't punch, No, you know what
I'm saying. Yeah, but it was a mold time I'm

(01:01:22):
talking about the time in front of didn't know what
I'm saying. I was multime millionaires. It ain't got that happens,
but they wanted the head and you better understand.

Speaker 5 (01:01:30):
But you gotta understand it's hard being a molt time
millionaire when you've got too many family members of too
many we ain't got you.

Speaker 1 (01:01:37):
And if you know, back then, I gave it. I can't.
I cared too much about everybody around me. I can't
explain it. But money never made me. Money come and go.

Speaker 5 (01:01:47):
I'm still here, healthy, healthy, and better shape than I've
ever Yeah, you take you take care of yourself, better shape, better.

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
Shape than I've ever been. I'm healthy, I'm happy, I'm peaceful,
you know what I'm saying, Like God is good man,
I have nothing, you know what I'm saying. So you
don't never think about that money that you should invest.
You should have a couple of times sometimes you do
your normal. But on the most part, I really don't
think about too much. I just don't because now life
is so much different from back then. It's really hard

(01:02:14):
to kind of correlate too of today's life in back
to like not just the money wise, Like everything's different,
you know what I'm saying. So it really is like
two different planets, right. I'm just in this transition now,
and I got to find out the ways to make
it work. And I got some things in the pot
and them you're gonna always be able to make a
dollar that ain't it ain't.

Speaker 4 (01:02:32):
Nobody never dispute a question, and I just me being
from where I'm from, coming from nothing.

Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (01:02:39):
My mother working hard as she could, made sure we
was a little man. I took you you know what
I mean, It's like family friends. I bought everybody all
kind I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:02:48):
Big, I literally like I was. I was a big
and of them hip. You back what you baying? Mom
caused jewelry money. You know what I'm saying, I mean
bills everything, women, I was with jewelry moneys. I mean,
just my kids spoiled the het out of my kids,
you know. I mean it's just you know what I'm saying,
look at it. I mean it just I watched my

(01:03:10):
father do that. I watched him be very generous. Man.
I kind of took that on. I learned later that
that that necessarily wasn't the greatest move because you know,
later on, you know when when you know when when
they could be in a position to help you, they don't.
You know. But see that's the part where I get

(01:03:31):
that to God, because I truly believed that that that
doesn't go unnoticed. I really believe that you shouldn't feel anyway,
and you shouldn't feel spiteful, evengeful. Just know that you
did it and it's gonna come in different ways. And
that's that's right, just how that's just how I feel.
That's rough, though. Did you did you ever feel like.

Speaker 4 (01:03:54):
Do you remember the moment when you felt like I'm broke,
not that I can't make a dollar, different things.

Speaker 1 (01:04:01):
Because I always was just blew money, like I was
really blown money fast to be as like like I
just always was. At some point I knew you would know,
you would tell him, Man, he's been like that from
day one. I just was. I love nice things. I
loved you know what I'm saying. I was like I
was so I could name the celebrities I was. I mean,
I was the top of it for a few years.

(01:04:23):
I was. I had the owner of the Source magazine
and Source high wards and had a hit record like that.
You know what I mean? Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
I know, I lived. I lived. I didn't want people
like you lost, I lose. I spent it and lived great.
I was doing amazing a daily minutely basis. You know

(01:04:44):
what I'm saying that, And you can't take that from me.
That happened. See, that's what life is we all gon,
but there's gonna be a period of life where you're
gonna have a hell of a run. I had minds.
I still weren't lie in me. You know what I'm saying.
That happened. The resume stays, it stands, you know what

(01:05:05):
I'm saying. Of course, as black people were not good
with money, and guess why that is because of the
situation that these all this. But I lived and I learned,
and you know what I'm saying. I'm definitely But at
some point, I know reality kicked in. You're like, yo,
I can't spend money like that. Yeah. The only kicks
in of what what? What I gotta worry about right now?

(01:05:26):
That's my reality now. So you're telling a reality no
more the past the past that I swear to God,
I'm not lying. The past is not reality no more. No,
I'm talking about in that moment, like I'm wondering in
your life.

Speaker 4 (01:05:37):
Was it two thousand and six where you like, down
the lifestyle, gotta change, I gotta down great house.

Speaker 1 (01:05:42):
I still was. I still have bad Yeah, we're gonna
start smoking good weed. I still was. Then did you
downgrade your homes? Yeah, but that's just it, that's just it.
Like I used to I never did you ever had
I never made? Yeah, of course two of them in Jersey,
one for me and one for my family, big stupid
ones next Russell Simmons's job, and I see in y Clifford. Yeah,

(01:06:04):
but you know what I'm saying. But you know what
I mean, Like I was all I was living in
hotels more than anything. That was my family. I was
on the road all my life. I was staying at
hotels all my life, from motels to the most amazing
hotels you could think of, my whole life. So I
didn't see the difference, you know what I'm saying. When
that happened, Dave might have been, but man, when that
when we lost the sauce, I moved to Miami. We

(01:06:25):
lost everything. I moved to Miami. I still was paying
my rent. I had a nice little house with a
little pool in Hollywood, California. Now I was still going
to strip club stiff only like what do I gotta
be upset for how long? For a minute? Yeah, it's like,
you know, we started hip Hop Weekly. I came in
and I came up looking. I came up with hip
Hop Weekly, wasn't getting the money to see you're in
you so you're the owner. I invented that. After that,

(01:06:48):
these are impointed that that's what I'm looking for. What
happened after that? Like how you maintained our life's in
hip hop? I invented hi. I'm sure that was a
thirst to maintain their life. Yes, invented hip Hop Weekly
and we ended up putting a magazine out. We tried
to do the week. That was hardest, but we managed
to do it two weeks and we did it through
the internet. We did something that nobody even understood to
put a magazine out because you have a time limit.

(01:07:11):
We did it by having editors all over the place
and like nobody we had. We didn't even have an office.
And we did that every two weeks and put out
seven years of Hip Hop Weekly. Bro. It was amazing,
Like was it in newsstands or just all over the
news stands? Everywhere? It was in the jails. People loved
hip Hop Weekly. Damn. Who was in that with you? Huh?

(01:07:33):
Who was in that? It was me and Dave me David.
We hired my man Cavario, you know what I'm saying.
And we hired a Cynthia Horner Sunny from from the
Food Network. Salute to her. She's doing amazing things, Like
you know what I'm saying, Like I was hiring everybody
I was hiring from jail, giving them journalists. Why don't
I have like a network TV something? I mean, did

(01:07:56):
you get any information from all of this? Right? So?
You know right now you know how to run up?
I know I do all that, bro, you know what
I'm saying. But but it's like, it's like Dave, Dave
a lot of people don't want to streets a lot
of people don't want to all that that they might

(01:08:17):
be larry and scared of. See, Dave wasn't Dave. We
bonded and when hit everything grew, Dave came to me.
And even when he gave me fifty percent of Salt Magazine,
it wasn't making no money at ninety four, I wasn't
getting no money. You know what I'm saying. I just
was that, yeah, because I had to look out for Dave.
I was Dave's frying and his muscle. And then I

(01:08:38):
started learning new to where's that my mind? Because I
was hip hop and I started actually making amazing things.
Happening where I was surprising myself, like damn that. Once
I started, you know, doing actual that was outside of street,
then that's when I was like, oh yeah, come on that.
And I didn't get credit for it, but I wasn't
looking for it.

Speaker 4 (01:08:57):
But what I'm hearing from you is that that you
were a round source from day one, but you wasn't
participating from a business perspective.

Speaker 1 (01:09:07):
There wasn't really nothing that really nothing to participate with
me in it from until I would say that until
I started like really getting involved with the source swords,
which was around ninety four to ninety five. But if
he giving you fifty percent, then that means something was
established pro right, That's what I'm saying, right that he
was like I was with him the whole time, and
I told you, like he was staying at my apartment

(01:09:28):
when it was backing the magazine. Who was best friends?
But on paper he was one hundred percent But he no, no,
he was. He had partners. Remember those guys he brought
them out of ninety four when everybody walked out when
he put the article involved. Okay, you know what I'm saying.
So then he gave me fifty percent, because he was
one hundred percent. It was like, yo, and this before
any real attraction is happening. Yeah, it wasn't really no
money being made. He was like, bro, you want to go?

(01:09:50):
I was like, why not? I wonder how he feels
about that moves. I mean, listen, look at we We
did amazing things together. I was amazed, you're part of
those millions. Bob Johnson, who sold Beaty with three hundred million,
flew us up there and offered us fifty five million
dollars cash in his office. I did that, me and

(01:10:10):
Dave together, like that was me. There wasn't no source
without me. I was unorthodox and how I did but
I but it didn't matter. I wasn't up there. I
didn't have to be the poster boy because I was
getting money and I was happy and everybody around muse
and it was an amazing thing.

Speaker 6 (01:10:29):
Could you have learned more?

Speaker 1 (01:10:30):
Though? No, I've learned. I learnt a lot. I've learned
a lot. There was nothing else. How can you learning
I learned and taught.

Speaker 4 (01:10:36):
How can you be learning the business side of it
when you party and by spending the money?

Speaker 1 (01:10:42):
No? No, see, because the business side of it for
me was to take him. Dave doing it sounded like
anytime we say something no, no, no, Because I just
told you I was quarterbacking Dave. Dave didn't do shit.
I was making all that. I told you that. We
just spoke on it. I said I was everything that
major developments. And so from the creative side, you were saying, well,

(01:11:03):
that's the building I'm talking about. That's not knowing. That's
the talent side. I'm telling you how administrative they don't
care of that. Yes, but it don't work. You don't
get money unless the magazine was tried about that. Yeah,
but I'm saying, imagine being the senior old fred O Lazy.
Now that's not not but that's not my lane. I'm not.
I didn't go Dave went to Harvard for that. Let
Dave do that. Let let let your partner do that.

(01:11:24):
You and so if you them don't know that, you
put it said, I'm telling from doing that twelve million
dollars you do right, right. I wasn't with it, but
I trusted him. I wasn't with it after twelve million.
You know what I'm saying. You know you know what
I'm saying. Of course, it's that that money's going towards
the source whatever. But I didn't know it. I didn't
trust it. But he did it, and I had to

(01:11:45):
go and I had to roll with it just like
I did. He wrote it with five I mean the
five mics. Now imagine that Dave went to Harvard and
made that decision and and and it wasn't a good decision.
But that don't make Dave wrong, for it was what
was the decision you made that wasn't so didn't pan up?
Get it? Man? This Wallow two seven and now tuned
into It's up there podcast Man with my Man loom Man.

(01:12:09):
Check him out all

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Benzino Unfiltered: The Source, Eminem Feud, & Hip-Hop’s Evolution | It's Up There Podcast

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