December 5, 2025 • 52 mins
T-Pain Exposes DJ Khaled “Brother” Game, Labels Want Spotify Raise, DEI Money Vanishes for Pods In this solo episode, Loon breaks down why T-Pain’s “nobody is your brother” rant on Shannon Sharpe hit harder than people think, what it really means when DJ Khaled uses “brother” like a promo code, and how the family word gets weaponized to cloak bad business in music and media. From Ace Hood’s seven-figure exit from We The Best to labels quietly pushing Spotify to raise prices while keeping artist splits the same, Loon explains why music is still on a rookie contract, how Netflix vs cable exposed the new “add-on hustle,” and why AI plus streaming turned fans into secret investors. Then he pivots to podcasting: DEI checks drying up, black creators getting cut when the government paperwork changes, the Joe Budden universe, “sous-chefs” getting bravado off someone else’s work, and why pods like Need to Know and Bigger Picture struggled once DEI budgets disappeared. Loon lays out why he refuses pity-party money, how he’s retraining his audience to pay for value, and what it means for the future of It’s Up There Podcast. 00:00 – Intro, holidays & “fish sandwich vs fishing rod” 03:12 – T-Pain on Shannon Sharpe: “Nobody is your brother” 03:53 – DJ Khaled, the “brother” promo code & being used 08:13 – Weaponizing the family word in music & business 10:28 – Roc La Familia, mob names & fake “family” labels 12:35 – T-Pain’s legacy vs putting people on 15:05 – “If they make the sea, I make the sail” – Loon’s method 15:25 – Ace Hood vs DJ Khaled: 7-figure exit from We The Best 17:02 – Clip: Ace Hood explains the million-dollar number 20:43 – Connecting T-Pain, Ace Hood & Khaled’s sweet spot 22:11 – Labels push Spotify to raise prices 24:21 – Netflix vs cable: devaluing live TV & changing behavior 27:03 – Add-on hustle: subscriptions as the new cable 27:39 – Artists still hustling like it’s the 80s 29:34 – AI, labels & training models on artist voices 31:13 – Labels renegotiate subscriptions, not artist splits 33:45 – Streaming, secret shareholders & rookie contracts 35:11 – Knife vs pie: who controls splits in music 35:38 – Podcasting leaves its rookie deal 36:55 – Bigger Picture & Need to Know podcast cancellations 38:36 – Clip: DEI money stops and ads dry up 40:33 – Joe Budden universe & sous-chef bravado 43:19 – DEI, pity parties & token black shows 45:10 – Joe Budden, Flip, Surf & chemistry challenges 47:32 – Changing customer behavior vs artists standing still 49:56 – Dark time for pods & Loon’s long game 50:32 – Tease for the future of It’s Up There Podcast T-Pain said “nobody is your brother,” then brought up DJ Khaled by name. We unpacked that, Ace Hood’s 7-figure exit, labels pushing Spotify to raise prices without changing splits, AI training on artist voices, and how DEI money stopped and a lot of black pods folded when the checks dried up. Drop your thoughts: 1️⃣ Have you ever had the “brother/family” word used on you in business? 2️⃣ Should labels be able to raise prices on Spotify without changing artist splits? 3️⃣ Do you think DEI helped black creators, or just made us temporary line items? Full uncut audio and extra solo episodes live on Patreon: https://patreon.com/ItsUpTherePodcast Tap into the Discord (Looniverse) here: https://discord.gg/3AwsHfDcJB Join Our Its Up There Podcast Clip Channel now https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEh6Wk40kcNcMJ4t_jtmluw Discord https://discord.gg/GJKXMWQS For all exclusive interviews & more content not here click here https://www.patreon.com/itsuptherepodcast 🚨Unreleased Interviews https://www.patreon.com/itsuptherepodcast 🦺All Merch Options teespring.com/its-up-there-podcast-merch 🎧LISTEN ON SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/4Jheeb8FxYVDRo8khyrz36?si=e339dD2JRte2MYX2Uon3BQ 👀 SUBSCRIBE HERE:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl_GorAVekpEVDlk1Yc8giw 👂 LISTEN ON APPLE PODCASTS: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/its-up-there-podcast/id1317524092?uo=4 👣FOLLOW ITS UP THERE PODCAST HOST : INSTAGRAM | fogfo_looney TIKTOK | https://www.tiktok.com/@fogfo_looney PATREON| https://www.patreon.com/itsuptherepodcast SUBSCRIBE TO Youtube Channel ➡️ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl_GorAVekpEVDlk1Yc8giw WATCH MORE ➡️ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwNIuOcAtoo&list=PLnwwxLxHiDWayq4HPgNYUtsAGvqe3liOO
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I do think call It is in an interesting position
because there's an extreme upside for Kelly, and when we
look at it, call It doesn't even rap or he
doesn't produce. According to people I speak to in the industry.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Here's nobody, here's your brother, Nobody. Don't do that, Nobody, Pain,
because I hear it.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
I hear it all the time. That's my brother.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Nah, bro, it's the brother. Shit, Nobody is your brother.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
I've had dj kald Loan's not attacking call It, I'm
attacking the system. Calate benefits in right. So kell It
understands how to work the Brother's system. And for me,
I understand that the industry has a silicon soul and
in this game, brother is damn near like a promo code.
It's damn there, like use krole Brother to get seventy
(00:49):
percent off of whatever you need this rap dude. I've
watched people appropriate family culture in cloak business behind this
family word as a means to get results, as a
mechanism of control, and so we do have to watch people.
I think T Pain is talking right, but at the
same time we have to ask Pain, have you been
(01:10):
the person to do that fake friendship shit? I was
young and had mad respect for jay Z, but I
ain't gonna lie. I had questions. Yo. They called their
whole shit rock life familiar. Ben and Siegal went up
to get a lawyer and the door wouldn't answer. A
Few things gonna remain the same, soung gonna change. But
(01:31):
one thing we can count on is every single week
it's up the podcasts gonna drop some of that game,
something on the ground for the hunger Hound. Make sure
you stay around. You understand me. Listen playing a bus.
Just stop at sun Trust. If you're not on patron
dot com right now, you're in the wrong place. That's
where you support me at. I also want to have
a call to action for the people who are off
(01:52):
viewing these episodes when they go live. Make sure you do.
Also listen to the episodes that come out every Monday
via audio very and you listen to the audio as
we are building something spectacular for the culture to participate in.
Hopefully everyone had a tremendous holiday Thanksgiving, Christmas is here
(02:13):
when the holiday spirit on this side, I'm gonna see
how I can contribute to try to help a few
people in my area. Also, let me address that because
last week I seen a lot of people who really
didn't understand what I was saying when I spoke about
I'd rather not be giving a fish sandwich. I'd rather
be giving a fish and rod. I'd rather be taught
to what a fish are, how to get the fish,
(02:35):
versus you give me a sandwich. Because what we're dealing
with even now, right today, we're going to talk about
how podcasting has changed and how the music business is changing,
a lot of these individuals have been given fist sandwiches.
You got to remember, in this game, a lot of
people have an option to take a fish sandwich or
a fishing rod. They go with the fish sandwich. See,
(02:55):
I ain't no fish sandwich kind of I'm a fishing
rod kind of called tonight. I might want fitt sanwiches tomorrow,
I might want fish and spaghett it, but I ain't
no fitt sandwich handing me fitt sandwich kind of guy.
And so some people don't respect that. Other people acknowledge
what I'm saying. And so for both people, just get
to the line. I'll make you make a decision. The
(03:16):
important thing I have to always remember is I ain't
talking to everybody and so I always want to be
clear with that as well. It's a lot of people
out here in the world talking. I ain't talking to everybody.
I'm talking to my kind, my tribe. If you ain't
a part of my tribe, it's understandable. Find your tribe.
Just find your tribe. Everybody gonna have somebody that they
gonna get this thing done. With my tribe, we gonna
(03:38):
get it done at the highest level. If this is
not for you, you can exit the building. You've been dismissed.
Seecause I wouldn't place myself amongst those that I don't
care for. I won't consume content that I wouldn't believe
that was created with me and mind. If I felt
like something didn't have any value, it'll be my dude
(04:00):
to stay far away from that. Create as much distance
as I can between me and what has zero value.
But what I tend to find is is that people
who believe we have the least value in the market
will be the same people that constantly engage with our product. Now,
I don't know what you call that. Some people call
him marketing, but I call it mischievous. You know, it's
(04:24):
mischievous behavior from overgrown adults. But I'm here to get
a job done. I'm in the building to get a
job done. I'm at the forefront to get a job done,
and I'm talking to the doors out there, right. So
the first topic we're gonna talk about today is T Pain.
For people who do not know, T Pain made its
(04:46):
way over the Shannon Sharps podcast and he has some
choice words for a couple of different people. Now. T
Pain seems to be at the home stretch of his career,
and he seems to be reflecting on some of the
things that took place in this particular time. I feel
like something is on his heart and he's trying his
best to cover it up and smile through it. But
I think he feels a certain kind of way. So
(05:08):
T Paine went on Shannon Sharp's podcast and had some
very choice words surrounding DJ Kettley. Let's take a look
at what he said. Pay attention.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
What have you learned about this business in twenty years sitting?
Nobody is your brother? Nobody on paint. Don't do that,
nobody paint because I hear it. I hear it all
the time. That's my brother, I hear you have seen
so many dicks in that locker room. None of them
is your brother. Nobody is your brother. Everybody is your brother.
(05:42):
While they can use you, everybody everybody is your brother.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Wow, they can use you. Nobody is your brother.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
That is the quickest and the most consistent thing that
I've learned through this whole thing. You had to learn
that the hard way, everybody and everybody. And you know what,
it's only that say you my brother that I'm telling
just like that now, yeah, because you wouldn't allow you
(06:13):
wouldn't allow somebody that didn't say that to get close
to you.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
You would, so you would.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
I'd rather you tell me what the business was and
not have the brother aspects in there, and just say, hey, look,
here's what I wanna do. Here's what we're gonna do.
We're gonna do a hook, We're gonna i'm gonna put
a verse on this ship. We're gonna make a bunch
of money. I'm gonna we're gonna separate for a little bit,
and I'm gonna come back when I need you again.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Let's do it again.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
But I'd rather know the plan than to say you
my brother, you my brother, You my brother? No brother,
We always gonna be together. We ain't gonna never we
ain't gonna never separate. Anytime you need me. I'm here
for you anytime you need me.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Ba ba mom.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
But nah, bro, it's the brother ship. Nobody is your brother.
I've had DJ calling everybody then told me I'm your brother.
Do not believe that? Shiit Lord, That is the that
is the.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
You know you're gonna get me in trouble, man.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
You're gonna get us in trouble.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
I'm gonna get us in trouble.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
All that. But I mean, but but no, I mean
when I say when I say, when I say ship
like DJ Caller, it's very apparent like DJ Kellor knows
how to move, he knows how to you know, things
with different people and ship like that. But it's like
it's not, it's not it's not a DJ call It
type of thing. That's just the first person I can
think of. But we're talking about so many people because
(07:39):
you got to think of how many people I've helped
throughout their career. Everybody is like, oh my god, thank
you so much. You're my brother, and it's just so
much of that, back to back back to back, back
to back. You're my brother. You're my brother, you're my brother,
You're my brother. And then none of that ship was reciprocated.
None of that ship came back. None of that shit meant.
(07:59):
And when people, when people tell you how much you
mean to them, don't grab onto that. When people tell
you how much they can mean to you in return,
(08:22):
that's the shit you gravitate towards.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Damn.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
When when there's people on your team and sometimes like
I like, I love telling people that they're about to
get a raise.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Okay, you know what I mean. So I love I love.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Going to my team and like, hey, I'm about to
get your raise. And when somebody says thank you, man,
I appreciate it. Yeah, it's like, oh god, it's probably.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Gonna be your last race. But when I go to
somebody and I say, yo, you're about to get a.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Raise, and they say, can I is there something more? Work? Like?
Can I is there? Can you like also raise like
my responsibilities or something?
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Them?
Speaker 1 (09:09):
The people you keep right, you feel what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Them, The people you keep around, you know, And and
when you when you do something so astronomical as to
building somebody's career and they just say, Joe, you're my Brother,
bro By Gang never going to see you again. And
then it's like when you do something astronomical, like bro
(09:34):
you built my career up, there has to be something
I can do, right.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
That's the people you keep around with you. So clearly
this was a disci DJ Kelly. I think T Pain
did try to come out and backtrack and walk back
some of the comments and say that y'all just have
a different vernacular because I'm from the South or something
like that, while I'm from the South as well, and
I think T Pain needs to live in this truth.
I think there's a lot of people in the industr
(10:00):
that's living with these kind of stories, not necessarily about
Call It. I do think call It is in an
interesting position because there's an extreme upside for Kelly, and
when we look at it, call It doesn't even rap
or he doesn't produce, according to people I speak to
in the industry. And again, Loan's not attacking call It,
I'm attacking the system call It benefits in right, So
(10:22):
kell It understands how to work the Brother's system. And
for me, I understand that the industry has a silicon
soul and in this game, Brother is damn near like
a promo code. It's damn there, like use krole brother
to get Sidney percent off of whatever you need this
rap to do. And so people believe call it to
be in a position of where he'll brown knows a
(10:42):
little bit to get the job done. And so even
from outside of the industry, I watch people weaponize the
family word to cloak our business behind family. It leads
me to believe that there's certain perks there and there's
certain understanding there that may not be that it may
be a very hollow relationship, but it's just using the
family word because it gets work for cheap. See, it's
(11:05):
real old game. If you really come from the game,
you know, try to use that brother word and they
try to use that I with you type vibe to
get another work for cheap. And so I come in
the game, I come in the industry. From outside of
the industry, I watch people and I watch how they
weaponize the family word. I've watched people appropriate family culture
(11:26):
and cloak business behind this family word as a means
to get results, as a mechanism of control. And so
we do have to watch people. I think Tea Pain
is talking right, But at the same time, we have
to ask pain, have you been the person to do
that fake friendship shit? See what I need folks to understand,
And I've always understood that's why I don't do it.
(11:48):
That fake friendship shit is a weird dances playing. I
was younger and had mad respect for jay Z, but
I ain't gonna lie. I had questions. Yo. They called
their whole shit rock life familiar. Sigu went up to
get a lawyer and the door wouldn't answered. He needed
to get out of jail. J Hey, man, I ain't
got nothing to do this business. And at that point
(12:09):
maybe jay had grew up. I'm not sure, but I
had questions. I understood that we were lost in the
sauce at this point. And so when I see my
people in rep then they run around giving each other
a Talian mob name. See they playing on it, They
playing on it. See back in the day, they used
to name theyself behind a Talian mob families and it'll
(12:32):
be a record label when they'll sign you to a
record deal under the cloaks of lat familiar on some
mob kind of shit, like part of the family kind
of shit. And so it's allusion to the brain. You
think that this situation inherits the rules of the mob
because you ain't checking the tags. I'm into checking the
(12:52):
tags moving forward. And while you'll be dealing with black
Americans doing high level business in rap and cloak their
self behind in it Italian's name and inherit the values
of the mob while doing business really bad business. And
so you will watch Team Pain be frustrated and understand that. Yo,
what you're really saying is what we're doing is we're
(13:13):
watching DJ Kelly move around using brother as a promo code.
You know how when I read an ad, use my code. Yeah,
some of these know how to get in these rooms
and use my cod Brother, and you can get everything.
Damn they're free. You understand what I'm saying. But at
some point men have to recognize when people weaponize. We
(13:36):
got to recognize when people start to weaponize and it's
messed up because you'll have good people out here that
mean what they say and stand on they wordness. Also
in the mix with some of these people that's playing
high level games. Some of these folks that done read
their bullshit for their loss of power with all that,
and they think they executing high level game. That shit
is outdated. And old, and I say that respectfully. Everybody
(14:00):
got to start somewhere, but that's outdated. Game update your software,
love one. You know, we also got to look at
who's talking. We're dealing with T Pain. He was at
the top of the game. They made a lot of money.
I'm talking about that dude made a lot of songs
where music was really profitable, and he did help a
lot of people. He jumped on a lot of songs.
That was a lot going on with T Pain on it,
(14:22):
a lot of radio records, like a lot of labels.
But T Pain never put nobody on. And that's where
your legacy is always gonna live at. You can scream
from the top of the mountain about how many plaques
you got, it got to be the rest of the
world that saying. Now he puts six seven people, he
got a family, treat like his greatness wasn't just about him.
It was about more than just him. And I think
(14:44):
T Pain suffers from in his career we've yet to
see him put people on. Now. He may argue that
me giving those people songs put them on, and I
can push back on that, and we had that conversation.
But I think at the end of the day, the
culture has a different level of respect for the people
that grabs stuff and create something out of it. Right,
You'll see jay Z get reverence because all the people
(15:06):
and all the business he done outside of music. You'll
see fifty get that reverence because of all the business
he's done outside of music as well as inside of music.
You'll see Cash Money get that reverence because of all
of the business that they have done in music and
all of the different artists that has came through their infrastructure.
When we look at t Pain, we don't see those
(15:28):
same results. But when you hear him say something like
that about cal It, I think it's important that we
all understand that what he's saying is I believed in
that brother shit. That's what really hurt my feelings. He's
saying he's hurt, and people may not recognize that, but
he's definitely saying, yo, I believe them when they some
of them, some of them, I believe when they come
(15:51):
with that brother talk. And I see that that didn't
really materialize, and so now you have to live with
the harsh reality is, man, I got all the money,
and they stole some money along the way, but they
also stole my perspective on people. That's when they tell
you people that this industry is dangerous, because when you
get here, you start to understand, Oh man, they are
(16:14):
they ain't even like they Oh he ain't even And
he talking God talking, he talking uplift your people, and
he really hater he talking how he really really he
a sucker. That's why I gotta create the method. I
don't ride no fad. I tell that yo. I create
the method. We standing at the top of the mountain
(16:35):
and some of the innovators in this culture and me
and God gotta understanding that as long as I got
breath in my lungs, if they make the sea, I
make the cell, they make the wall, I make the door.
Hear man, I'm gonna figure it out. I'm gonna really
figure it out every step of the way. I ain't
gonna even allow him to get ahead of me. But again,
this isn't a diss that call it. This is an
(16:55):
examination of the ecosystem that cal it thrives in. Now,
I also want to take you guys to what Ace
Hood came on my show and he had some things
to say about DJ Kelly. It's important that we understand
that this business breeds bad behavior. And so I listened
to Pain and he talks about Kelly, and I say, well,
I just had Ace Hood on and for me, you know,
(17:17):
I heard Ace Hood go to Joe Budden podcast and
he spoke about, Yo, there was a seven figure bout
as it pertains to me getting out of my deal
with DJ Kellen. And I didn't understand that, at least
me looking at the business and saying, yo, he doesn't
been very successful. I'm sure he's recouped. He had songs
that has went platinum four and five times over when
you look at his catalog, right, And so I was
(17:38):
always interested in why did he cost a million dollars
for you to leave that deal? And so he explained
it on the episode, and I think he was trying
to be diplomatic, right. Ace Hood is a good dude,
so he's trying to be diplomatic. I also want to
look at what he said about Kelly, seeing that Tea
Pain is saying, yo, Kelly is surviving in this weird
little space where he's not a rapper, he's not a producer,
(17:59):
but everybody is his brother. And I don't know Cali.
I know people around call it some of my business
connects and my political connects, got a lot of respect
for them. But we examining the game. Pay attention to
what Ace Hood said about DJ Kelled on this up
that podcast. Listen look at this clip, but in't podcasts
because I don't understand this, and maybe you can, you know,
(18:21):
help gain some clarity. But you said that when you
were getting out of the Cali situation, that it was
seven figures. What does that mean? Like, how does that
look as far as like contract negotiat What does that
mean you just need to pay a million dollars? Is
that what the verbage of that it is? Or what?
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Well, at that time, it was just a number, right,
you know what I'm saying. So before any negotiation anything
went down, or any discussion around the contract, this is
what Bro wanted initially. But again, I'm a guy, I'm
a young man who understands the both ends of the.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Spectrum.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
So I'm understanding, like, this is just a fluff number,
This is just something to scare me. This is something
coming off of currently it's frustration and how we feel
and boom boom, But also too, it was very real,
very real for me, So and I knew what at
the reality at that particular time, I couldn't just up
and give a bro mial. You see what I'm saying
for the situation, and I feel like it and I
(19:21):
feel like that would have been just taken advantage of him.
Two At that point too, I'm like, you know, to
give you an m for real, like you know what
I'm saying. What I know, my work done, spoke for itself,
like it's cool down and everything like that. Once we
got to and even you know, everybody even killed. Now
it's like, now we can have a real conversation about this,
you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
And I've seen on Breakfast Club where they kind of
asked him about.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
You, but to ask what were the best eight Hood
was like your first artist first time?
Speaker 4 (19:46):
Are you still and you're still together? Or Ace Hood
doing his own thing? You know what I'm saying, that's
my brother. I support him one hundred percent the best
of all he is he is, but he wants to
do his own thing.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
You know what I'm saying, why right now? You the
red hot.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Everybody makes his own decisions. But at the end of
the day, is we got love. It ain't no like
you know, I sometimes, you know, artists might want to
do something and maybe you know, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
I can't I can't speak for him. I don't know
what he's thinking.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
But at the end of the day is we bless him,
we love him, and he's you know, I've been with
him from the birth of ay so so I've supported
him and I'm always gonna love him and if you
ever need me, I'm here to support one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
You know, he does kind of what Calid does, kind
of dance around it, and it's love, love, and you
know what I'm saying. And then you tweeted following that
you said that only if everything you said in an
interview was true. Have you guys spoken since then? What's
the relationship with you guys, if at any But what's
the feeling with Calid and that situation with we the best?
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Well, there is no situation, you know what I'm saying
between me and me and bro. You know that's just
only history between me and dog. On my end, I'm
a man of love, you know what I'm saying. Like
like so, there is no love lost and you did
what I'm saying. But at the same time, I'm not
looking for anything from him.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
I think that I wish him the best with what
he has going on with his kids, with his family
and everything. But there is no relationship, not to say
that there will there. There won't be a relationship nor
a conversation, which I feel that maybe there will be
God willing to see it so that it will be
a conversation between us two to mend some things out
or to just have a conversation. But you know, nah,
(21:27):
there's no relationship at this current moment. But what's holding
it back? What do you think is?
Speaker 1 (21:33):
I mean? Because if you cleared the debt, you pay
whatever was ass you guys negotiated a number, would you
guys seeming to be so close during that run, what
would make it at this point we haven't even spoken right, right, Like,
what is what would you contribute that to? Uh? Well,
I would say there's a few things that contribute to that, right.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
So that was a moment in time for me where
I took a step back from the industry right to
just go more introspectives, learn about myself, to recreate myself,
rebrand and all of that stuff. So that was that
whole process that went down right when I became independent,
so I went on my own personal journey to find me.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Not so you hear Ace Hood is like, yo, I
shared some of those experiences and this came out before
T Pain went on went on Shannon shawp showing, and
also Ace Hood spoke about T Pain on My show.
And I think that's what makes this conversation a little
a little interesting because it's like, Yo, when I look
(22:31):
back at the person T Pain may have became in
that moment, right, he was on fire. Literally we probably
ain't seen or run next to Drake and people like that.
But we're talking about T Pain coming from the South,
solo records all across every genre. He was dancing everywhere
because it was singing but it was hip hop, right,
(22:52):
and then the entire game was changing over to the
auto tune. Future helped it. Like there's just a lot
going on at one time. T Pain is thriving. But
I do remember when Future and Acehood was trying to
just shoot a video for walk Up in a new book.
Got it? He come out, Yo, that's my car. It's
like he was kind of ashole in, you know for
(23:14):
saying that. And I think you know, I don't know
where he was in his mind, and I think the
competition with Future at that point and thesehood explained it.
But I don't think that that was T Pain's best decision.
I don't know, Pain, but looking back at that, it
feels like I hate to move. But some of the
bigger records that Payne has, he gave the call it.
All I do is win and shit like that caller
is gonna eat for generations off them kind of records.
(23:36):
And T Payne know what it takes to get going
in this industry. It take a whole bunch to get going.
And if I'm being completely honest, if we're just depending
on DJ Kellet to get you going without him using
any other rappers as features. I mean, he has a
lot of relationships, but I think it's a hard fight.
But if he's able to use the promo cod Brother,
(23:57):
then he may be able to get this new artist.
T Pain jump on this joint, Rick Ross jump on
this joint. Baby may say a few words on this joint.
You know, I get Drake, I make him. I can
pour some strings because I'm using promo cod Brother. And
so when we think about what music was, it was
in a totally different spot even when we look at
it now, we're talking about we've watched our industry devalue
(24:19):
music in our face and nobody done nothing. Everybody just
sat there and watched them devalue music in front of
our faces. Now the splits then change in some regards,
they even got worse. Here's the trick they hid behind
payouts because streaming boom. But we'll get into that. I
want to talk to you guys about the article that
(24:40):
I was just reading about the record labels and how
they're pushing for Spotify to raise his prices as it
pertains to what is pain to license the music. This
is a very interesting conversation, but I want to deal
with some of the backdrop when we look at the
entire entertainment industry as it pertains to streaming music is
(25:03):
still on the rookie contray, and so you're going to
see them perrot behind some kind of artist centric rollout
to make it seem like whatever they're fighting for is
in the best interest of the artists. But I do
want to look at the backdrop of some of these conversations.
We've watched them devalue rap in a way that I
was always surprised on the outside. It's a reason why
(25:25):
rap feels dead. I would argue that it's not dead,
but it feels dead because they've devalued the filing. It's
a cheap three on now, all right, let me speed
it up and give you some game. I remember a
time when there was no Netflix, and all you had
to deal with was like Comcast, which was Infinity, which
was another company before that, I can't think of the name.
(25:47):
But what we were dealing with is everyone was watching
cable TV. They even started to put ad ons on cable.
The way it was starting to become astronomical. I mean
people were paying five hundred dollars a month, right, not
because that was the base package, but there's this new
culture that I'm now because I'm a business owner and
I have to study some of these funnels and some
of these plans. I'm starting to understand the add on hustle,
(26:11):
the funnel hustle, right, and so we're just dealing with
it on a high level. Peep game. I remember when
cable was the thing, right, So cable was in a
scenario where everybody had cable in their home. I mean,
your home was not a home without cable, and while
music had already started to shape what it looked like
and felt like as it pertains to LimeWire, Napster and
(26:33):
I'm just freestyling, So if I get some of this wrong,
y'all bear with me. On the other side of entertainment,
you had music which was forming and understanding that the
download was coming and we were gonna have to shape
shift and figure out a way to profit off this
download thing. Something's going on, right, and so on the
other side, and in home entertainment, when we deal with
cable TV, stuff started to pop up like what like Netflix.
(26:57):
Netflix understood number one, everybody had cable, so they dominated
the market. They had to devalue what you felt about cable.
Oftentimes you got to take a loss to do so.
And while we saw all of the innovation in traditional
TV music from an artist level stage, the same they
didn't band together. They didn't bundle anything together. They're waiting
(27:20):
on the labels to figure stuff out. And I think
that's the problem. We're not utilizing each other, we're not
utilizing the tools, we're not utilizing that understanding. Listen, when
I saw Netflix pop up back in the day, they
started to attack what you were paying for cable. They
were attacking even live TV. They were attacking something that
was a luxury in America for quite some time, live television.
(27:42):
You're watching this live and we're reporting live from that
took something that was a luxury and they devalued it.
They started to tell you, man, you know, I know
y'all talking at live TV talk, but who wants to
have to be home at a certain time to watch
something they have control over, y'all? They know everyone to
be at home eight watching. They flipped the narrative and
(28:06):
they changed the customer behavior and made the customer belief
they yeah, forget that live TV stuff, and it's too
how and it'll go out. Long as I got Internet,
I can get Netflix now. Netflix came in at a
lower price, because sometimes you got to take a loss
to make a point. So they came in at a
lower price and stole the entire market, changed the customer
(28:30):
behavior only to do what raised the prices right back
up on you. So while you complained about cable being
high for all of that time, now when you look
around after you get done playing for Netflix and Hulu
and sports and NFL and NBA and your favorite Movie Channel.
You now in a position of where you're back paying
what you were paying for cable before Netflix came in
and made their justification. So it's high level game. But
(28:54):
in music, we watched them devaluating. Nobody done anything. And
so when I say the music business is on the
rookie contract, what I mean is they're still moving how
they did in the eighties. That's what I be looking
at some of the rappers and saying, y'all ain't understood.
You gotta come get with loan and roll out of
interview and some content. You gotta put it on eight
in and somebody and we gotta roll out some shit
(29:15):
together to make a real impact across all markets. Y'all
really still hustling like y'all in the eighties. Man, you
better ask them is in jail now? You better update
your software. It's still hustling. Listen. They still getting the record,
dropping two videos and then letting that labels push them
to the same radio stations doing the same one too.
(29:36):
Everybody else is elevated. They hustle. Now, I ain't saying
everybody doing that. Salute the Travis Scott. You'll see the
astro worlds pop up salute the drake, the overo fences
pop up. You'll see some of these things, right. You
need better learn how to bundle and innovate your hustle.
All let hustling like y'all in the nineties. Drop an album,
(29:57):
put a video out, and let the label just working
to whoever they tell you to go, sit with wherever
they tell you to go. And you wonder why you
get left out in the cold when they've done with you,
because you don't know the method. I keep telling you
when they find with me, they create the ocean. I
create the cell, they create the lock. I create the key.
I ain't even focusing on what they creating. Whatever they create,
(30:20):
I'm gonna create the bigger thing, the better thing, the
thing that are outlast there is. So let them create on,
let them hate on. You ain't learning no methods. It
gets places I go in America. Right now, you shut
the feel of your gas, take up and get a
free Apple subscription. Yeah, the industry is moving. It's the
(30:42):
artists that they ain't moving. Man. You shut to go
and buy a movie ticket and get a free Apple
subscription Netflix, see, because they trying to change your behavior.
It's only the artist that's sitting there saying, y'all, let
me know what to do. When y'all figure it out,
you gotta be more innovative or you're gonna get left behind.
(31:02):
And not only am I not a fan of the
nineteen eighties music business hustle that deve rappers usually do,
which is drop an album, drop a video, and go
wherever the labe will tell you to go. I want
people to take note and take notice of when Loon
sits on the top of the mind and say, yo,
they have no interest in valuing the artists of today.
(31:22):
I think there's so many clear indicators. I just gave
you one. I'll even give you another one. Look how
they playing with AI right in these places, and so
you will have some artists. Why I'm not doing the
AI thing. I'm just not gonna allow it to happen.
You know, I'm not gonna give my voice over to
the AI. And so what they're sitting back saying is, oh,
this food don't know. He thinks you bigger than the program.
(31:44):
You in our system. Boy. Oh so you don't want
to participate in AI. So what you're saying is we
won't be able to give your voice and style in
our system. So I tell you what we'll do. The
next couple of cs we sign again, will take the lost,
similar to how Netflix did when they wanted to change
the customer behavior. Will take the loss and invest in
a new cropper artists. These next couple of artists, what
(32:05):
are they used for? We weaponize this next cropper artists
to work with our legacy artists to sign off their
rights to singles that we can then put into the
machine or the system or the AI learning model or
whatever we're using on the back end. It's trying to
train some of these systems on how to make music
and continue to devalue what music looks like. And so
(32:29):
when you see some of these labels or whoever drop
this press release come out and say, yo, they're fighting
for artists, you got to remember what that means. It's
really game up under game. They running high level game
on folks because they're not renegotiating the splits, they're renegotiating
the subscriptions, and there's two different conversations. But they're using
the artists as a shield to make the artists fight
(32:51):
for them. Because who's the lowdest people on the planet.
The artist who has the most influenced the artists. Right,
So if I can get you to believe that you
emotionally involved and this is in your best interest, maybe
I get you to fight for me or take some
time and listen. All of these blogs are bought anyway,
so they can kind of put the narrative out anyway
by way of just spending the money. With these blogs,
(33:12):
they'll post whatever the labels say if they just pay
them the money, point blank period. Spotify already pays roughly
seventy percent of music revenue out as it stands today,
and so when you have that kind of costline, you
gotta remember that. Number One, they're under pressure from the
shareholders to get that margin high, like we want to
see better profits. As we're looking at Netflix, they keep
(33:34):
raising the price. They trick them people over there for
seven dollars a month, and now they done got it
up to thirty and forty dollars a month. Hulu got
you over there for free, but you got ads every
ten seconds. But what will happen if you pay the money?
You don't get no ads. You get what's called premium,
and then if you pay on top of that you
can get four K. Then what about on top of that,
you can really get eight K and you can get
(33:55):
to record some right, they took you right back to cable,
but they out of mind on you as has made
everything add ons. I was looking at that in real estate.
I said, oh, that's the new game. The new game
is add ons. Get you in here for cheap and
hit you with a bunch of add ons. This is
the new hustle. And I'm also tell you something to
help them trig artists. This is the real game. This
(34:18):
is something to help them trig artists. People get it
confused that people are still in bad deals. The music business,
for the most part, has not changed. Outside of maybe
a select few artists, the music business has remained the same.
There are a lot of people in bad deals now.
The only difference is the splits didn't change. But in
(34:39):
came this new line item, and there was some payouts
happening because streaming exploded. It's so to be stuck in
up deals and they would still get money because streaming
was new, and so sometimes they gave the illusion that
the music business had changed. I believe what's happening in
the music right now is the same thing that happenedational
(35:00):
TV when Netflix came in. Now music always be music,
but the behavior has to change. We have to change
the behavior, similar to how they change the customer behavior
from traditional TV to now y'all get to watch it
on demand. See what you need to know is is
that Comcast play the role in changing their own customer behavior.
(35:22):
How did they do that? They had their own owned
demand system, but now this was the this was the
final boss on themand the Netflix, and so now they
had to compete with what they've already helped create, and
it just blew them out the water. What we're dealing
with now? Where is I think they're devalue in music.
Streaming already turned fans into secret investors of the music ecosystem.
(35:45):
People don't even realize that, like y'all are investing in Spotify,
investing in Apple that fifteen dollars a month. They look
at y'all like shareholders. Y'all just don't own a percent
of the company. That's the best kind of shareholder. It's
like crowdfunding or some shit y'all doing. And I think
music suffers the most because nobody's innovative, because nobody knows
the method. The people that know the method are at
(36:07):
the top of the food chain and they're hiring other
tech guys, and this business is about to get dark
for people that's just still hustling like it's the nineties. Yo,
I'm gonna drop my album and drop some videos. Your
career be dead soon. See, there's different kind of people
in this industry, in this game, and it's entertainment thing
in business period. There's people that control the knife and
people they control the pie. One of the biggest assets
(36:30):
of the person that controls the knife is that they
give the person that controls the piwe the illusion that
they controls the split. And so when we deal with music,
I think the first fight is with the splits that
the artists are getting out of these contracts. And so
I don't want to hear the labels telling me that
they're changing the infrastructure for the artists when the contract
(36:54):
didn't change. The only thing that change is the invoice
to Spotify, Apple and Title and so that's my thoughts
on it. I want to have one more conversation too
about the business today. We're just getting into the business.
Podcasting is changing for people who do not know podcasting
had a boom. A lot of people were relevant around
(37:16):
the Kendrick Lamar and Drake battle. I didn't even participate
in it. You know, I survived throughout it without even
diving into it at all. I didn't invite one person
on to have an interview about it. I didn't do
any real commentary onner. Now, of course I popped up
sometimes when I was just bored and spoke about it.
But maybe that was me losing money at that point
(37:37):
because according to everyone, you know, everyone thrived when Drake
and Kendrick Lamar was going at each other and they
had breakdowns. Nonetheless, we've been dealing with a change in
market as we're talking about music and how we're still
on this rookie contract. I think podcasting is now on
its second contract, right, it's no longer on the rookie contract.
(37:58):
It's on the second contract. And those that don't see that,
especial still operating out of their rookie deal with the
rookie understanding now what I'm dealing with. We had a
podcast by the name Bigger Picture with Elliott Wilson, d
J Head and Jeremy Heck, and we had Need to
Know podcasts with Alex and sa Von who are part
(38:21):
of the Joe Budden universe, and so because they're part
of the Joe Budden universe, I think it's only right
that we play our theme song hit that music out
(38:43):
the Need to Know Boys. You know I'm from the
south Man. Turn me up cool, That's how I'm good.
Speaker 5 (39:08):
Somebody took my boys friends.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
And I'm so alone already me even though you.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
Don't away, and I want to see you in something I.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Used to with my boy, even slag with my boy,
used to bag with my boy. Damn, I'm missing my boy.
You know I'm from the south Man. You know what
I'm saying. That's that's our version of it. Now, say
Vaughn and Alex they had a show called need to Know.
Before I get into my commentary, I do want to
(39:55):
give them a chance to tell you something of what
happened to them and some of the obstacles they face
why running their business. Pay attention to this clip.
Speaker 5 (40:04):
On the outside with the studio, with all the success
and the guests and the beautiful part of it. But
the reality is the DEI affected us directly.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
It definitely did. It definitely definitely did so.
Speaker 5 (40:15):
What DEI is For anybody who doesn't know DEI is
diversity equity inclusion. So a DI program is basically a
plan by a company, school, or organization to welcome different people,
give fair opportunities, and make sure everyone can participate. According
to Jack chat GPT, why many organizations saying they're stop
(40:36):
or rewriting their DEI programs, There are several reasons, often overlapping.
Here are the big ones. Legal pressure, Some federal and
state rules have changed, and organizations feel that certain types
of DEI efforts could raise legal risk, political shifting businesses.
All right, I'm not going to go through all of this,
but you understand what DEI is.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (40:59):
DEI was continued, yeah after the federal level. So all
of the brands that I had mentioned earlier, the McDonald's,
the Walmarts, the Hulus, the Magniums, all of it, they
no longer had to They were not obligated to invest
or work money aside for with you know, black creators.
(41:21):
And that directly affected us to where the agency that
we work with no longer was receiving the money from
those companies, and that company no longer or our ad
agency no longer felt like they could or had the
money to spend with us in the same way that
they were before. Didn't just affect us, but it affected everybody.
Speaker 6 (41:40):
Now you're sir, and we were so confused, right because
you're like, yeah, we had a certain amount of ads
coming in per month. And then when we kind of
got the understanding of what was changing right and what
was removed, you start to realize how things on the
federal level could affect you here at the ground level.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
So yeah, that was a very very big part.
Speaker 6 (41:56):
Of it, and we've had to kind of just keep
it pushing, right, trying to keep costs a float, trying
to make sure that there's certain money in the accounts
to pay for the things that we have to pay for, right.
Employees got to get paid certain up, back and up, so.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
You get the gist of it. Basically, one of the
things they cited was the number one Let me say this,
running a podcast is hard. Running a business and podcasting
is hard. It's way more than conversation. I know, people
see it happen and they think, yo, I can do that. Man,
we do that out of time. Where I'm from, there's
people that I have watched kind of try to follow
(42:32):
me and follow my footsteps, which that's why I leave
footprints in the sand. That's exactly why I leave footprints
in the sand so I can try that. If they
leave with nothing else, they'll have respect for what I've
done because they tried to do it themselves at the
bare minimum. Now, let me say this. There's a lot
of people from the Joe Budden universe. And I say
(42:54):
this respectfully because Joe Budden has built the ecosystem I
have a lot of respect for. That's allude to the
homeboy ish. We ain't spoken or while, but that's my guy.
But it's important that all of these gentlemen understanding. Standing
to a chef don't make you a chef. It make
you a soux chef. Nah, just because you bring me
(43:15):
the limons on me, right, just because you brought me
the onions on me, just because you yeah, you might
have cut the meat. Yeah understand me. You a shoot yeah, man,
come on now. So I need people to understand that
when we start to have these high level conversations, because
when I'm listening to something as a chime in and
I say, where that bravado come from? What a that
(43:38):
bravado car? How they get to talk like that? These
gentlemen come from the Joe Budden universe. I'm not sure.
I think I may have seen this show one time
when when they had Joe on and the fans send
me a clip where they spoke about me. I guess
they they didn't favor something that I was speaking about.
They were trying to be on academics good side, and
(43:59):
so he won't even acknowledge that the show canceled or
it was ever created, but that that's nonetheless, but said
something about I guess I'm not their cup of tea,
which is fine because I'm not everyone cup of tea.
I'm not interested in being everyone's cup of tea. That's
not that's not something that I'm a static about being
everyone's everyone's cup of tea. But I know it's too
(44:22):
many people that got Stanama from other people's work. I
know two many of y'all got Bravado that y'all ain't earned,
views that y'all ain't accumulated, right, and I'm seeing high
level games going on right when I look at because
when this happened, the first thing I said was, Woa,
this is the Joe Buddens universe. Let's look at look
into this a little more and see what happened. They
(44:44):
said they were making money last year. They blamed DEI. Listen,
I don't participate in pitty parties, and that's not the
downplay d I don't want to sound like I'm someone
that has any kind of influence this downplaying DEI, because
that's not my understanding of it. But I'm interested in
equal opportunity, but not equal outcome. And I think when
(45:05):
we start to get into that equal outcome spot, I
think that's when we get to a slippery slope. Now,
what I do want to say is DEI in itself
is not that, but we do have people like these
gentlemen that has benefited when they must not couldn't sustain
that interest with the company without the DEI thing in place,
because if the numbers was numbering, none of my shit
(45:28):
is based on DEI. I didn't even like, I'm not
interested in going to pity parties, right, I want to
go to the party where they see the value and
what in the dish I'm bringing. See, that's the thing,
this thing we got culture. We all bring a dish
to the party, right, they bring the music. I bring
this kind of conversation. They bring that kind of conversation.
(45:50):
I wan't allow them to devalue my dish at the party.
All that old. It's a DEI project and we're looking
to promote on black podcasts. I'll pass on that one.
Love the relationship is not real again, I tell y'all
fake relationships. That's a weird spot to be in. I'm
not interested in being your token black show.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
Now.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
That could be counterproductive, And that's exactly why I don't
make all the decisions by myself. Right. I got a
team of people that's involved because they may be a
productive move to go and be a certain show at
a certain spot, But just from a holistic standpoint, it
just feels nasty. But sometimes I gotta be utilized as
a tool. I gotta know, I ain't gonna feel the
greatest in every door I walk in. I ain't gonna
(46:33):
feel the greatest doing everything I must do for the
calls and the culture, and I'm gonna do it by myself.
I ain't interested in connecting arms with none of these
sucking ads because they ain't hustlers and they don't come
up like I come up. So the word brother don't
mean none to them, The word freeing don't mean none
to them. Respect don't mean none to them. They can
be bought and soul. I can't do it. So I'm
(46:56):
doing this alone. I need to support the money. The money, Yeah,
you don't got to show up sitting the money. Same time,
I'm watching Joe and they say he made twenty million
last year, I'm saying, man, that's a lot of money, right,
And so I'm watching how he moving number one PSA
for everybody out there and for me. I look at
(47:18):
Flip and say, when they put Flip on the show,
they elevated the show, but they elevated in a way
that I felt like, you can never get rid of
Flip now, Right, It's like putting salt on your chicken.
It's like once you feed the dog table food, it's
gonna be hard to now feed them dog food. And
I see them struggling with that. Now. With the camaraderie
(47:38):
that they have on the show, it's kind of rough.
It's just kind of it ain't cohesive like it was
with Mail and Flip and they had got into a groove, right,
It's just it's back. It's a bumpy roll for the
last ones that I had watched. And so what I'm
noticing is that he's trying to in my opinion, and
again I'm speculating, but it feels like he's trying to
(47:59):
remove Flip up from the show. I think that's a mistake.
And the reason I think is a mistake is because
I think Flip presents a dynamic that nobody else can present.
They may say the new girl Mona presents that, and
I would argue the other side of that, But what
I will say is this, it's one hundred percent fact
that he's phasing the mouth. And so I'm hearing behind
(48:20):
the scenes that Joe Budden is phasing Flip out to
phase Surf in when he gets out. They're saying, I
guess Surf got sixty to ninety days left. Then he
may got six months and he'll be acclimated after that, right,
So maybe sometime next year you replace that Flip energy
with Surf, and I think Surf can handle Mona. I
(48:42):
think Mona has now put Flip in a weird spot
because of all of the shit that happened with Mail.
If Mona was the first person, I think Flip handles
that different and he handles it better. But while I
watch podcasting, I watch what Joe's built, and he's built
some astronomical He's making a lot of money. These guys
are successful. I need people to understand they have now
(49:04):
changed their customer behavior, and that's the only way that
you win in this game. So what I'm trying to
train you guys to understand is is that the only
people standing still is the artists. Even though I said
it's up the podcast, we see all that we are
changing our customer behavior, even the guys on streaming and Twitch,
they've changed the YouTuber's customer behavior to now you gotta
(49:28):
spend something, man, or you're gonna see a bunch of ads.
Now they can circumvent the process because Twitch is owned
by Amazon and there's no inap purchase for you to
be paid. You could just have a prime membership and
still get your money, right, it's the whole thing that goes.
But I'm telling y'all it's high level being's being ran.
The only people standing still is the artist waiting on
(49:49):
the label to figure it out. We over here doing
podcasts saying yo, I know you like to watch the show,
but you used to spending five dollars a month on it.
You used to spending ten dollars a month on it.
You used to spend it twenty dollars a money on it.
With changing our customer behavior, the artist is still going
to record his music and dropping one and two videos
and trying to go on tour and thing, and that's
(50:09):
just all he has to do. I think that's where
he suffers that that's me, that's my opinion. That's how
I give it up. So sometimes you don't understand everyone's moves, right.
I believe that a lot of the people that's impactful
in the market are great podcast is. I think sometimes
it's a bad fit. Now, what I will say is this,
your job is to expand your audience, and so sometimes
(50:31):
you will bring in a girl that may has a
female audience and you're trying to get them acclimated over
here with you. There's a balance in act that's happening
on the show, not just with you. See, sometimes a
person like Joe can be someone that's in that position
and believe in his ability to figure this out. Right,
like Yo, I can adjust to a new host at
any moment, like they can throw anybody and we'll figure
(50:51):
it out. Give us four months, we'll figure it out.
Everybody can't do that and I think sometimes he's asking
of his co host a bit much. You understand, because
you now asking these people to just be like Yo,
a new energy, a new vibration, a new voice, and
any moment can just enter the building. It's like a
rural rumble over here. Yeah, this shit like rural rumble
(51:15):
every thirty seconds. It's like a new run into the couch. Right.
But all in all, I think podcasting is doing well.
I think we have a far way to go, right.
I'm still building my team around my business because again,
it is a volatile business. I also see a lot
of people that struggling to get views, that struggling to
get listens, Like it's a dark time for podcasters. You know,
(51:39):
my word is my word. I'm gonna try to continue
to be who I am and continue to bring good
content hopefully y'all enjoy. But with the canceling of all
these other shows, what do I feel and what's my
thought process on the end of It's Up That Podcast?
Find out on the next episode of It's Up That Podcast.
(52:00):
I love y'all, See y'all next week. Love
I do think call It is in an interesting position
because there's an extreme upside for Kelly, and when we
look at it, call It doesn't even rap or he
doesn't produce. According to people I speak to in the industry.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Here's nobody, here's your brother, Nobody. Don't do that, Nobody, Pain,
because I hear it.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
I hear it all the time. That's my brother.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Nah, bro, it's the brother. Shit, Nobody is your brother.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
I've had dj kald Loan's not attacking call It, I'm
attacking the system. Calate benefits in right. So kell It
understands how to work the Brother's system. And for me,
I understand that the industry has a silicon soul and
in this game, brother is damn near like a promo code.
It's damn there, like use krole Brother to get seventy
(00:49):
percent off of whatever you need this rap dude. I've
watched people appropriate family culture in cloak business behind this
family word as a means to get results, as a
mechanism of control, and so we do have to watch people.
I think T Pain is talking right, but at the
same time we have to ask Pain, have you been
(01:10):
the person to do that fake friendship shit? I was
young and had mad respect for jay Z, but I
ain't gonna lie. I had questions. Yo. They called their
whole shit rock life familiar. Ben and Siegal went up
to get a lawyer and the door wouldn't answer. A
Few things gonna remain the same, soung gonna change. But
(01:31):
one thing we can count on is every single week
it's up the podcasts gonna drop some of that game,
something on the ground for the hunger Hound. Make sure
you stay around. You understand me. Listen playing a bus.
Just stop at sun Trust. If you're not on patron
dot com right now, you're in the wrong place. That's
where you support me at. I also want to have
a call to action for the people who are off
(01:52):
viewing these episodes when they go live. Make sure you do.
Also listen to the episodes that come out every Monday
via audio very and you listen to the audio as
we are building something spectacular for the culture to participate in.
Hopefully everyone had a tremendous holiday Thanksgiving, Christmas is here
(02:13):
when the holiday spirit on this side, I'm gonna see
how I can contribute to try to help a few
people in my area. Also, let me address that because
last week I seen a lot of people who really
didn't understand what I was saying when I spoke about
I'd rather not be giving a fish sandwich. I'd rather
be giving a fish and rod. I'd rather be taught
to what a fish are, how to get the fish,
(02:35):
versus you give me a sandwich. Because what we're dealing
with even now, right today, we're going to talk about
how podcasting has changed and how the music business is changing,
a lot of these individuals have been given fist sandwiches.
You got to remember, in this game, a lot of
people have an option to take a fish sandwich or
a fishing rod. They go with the fish sandwich. See,
(02:55):
I ain't no fish sandwich kind of I'm a fishing
rod kind of called tonight. I might want fitt sanwiches tomorrow,
I might want fish and spaghett it, but I ain't
no fitt sandwich handing me fitt sandwich kind of guy.
And so some people don't respect that. Other people acknowledge
what I'm saying. And so for both people, just get
to the line. I'll make you make a decision. The
(03:16):
important thing I have to always remember is I ain't
talking to everybody and so I always want to be
clear with that as well. It's a lot of people
out here in the world talking. I ain't talking to everybody.
I'm talking to my kind, my tribe. If you ain't
a part of my tribe, it's understandable. Find your tribe.
Just find your tribe. Everybody gonna have somebody that they
gonna get this thing done. With my tribe, we gonna
(03:38):
get it done at the highest level. If this is
not for you, you can exit the building. You've been dismissed.
Seecause I wouldn't place myself amongst those that I don't
care for. I won't consume content that I wouldn't believe
that was created with me and mind. If I felt
like something didn't have any value, it'll be my dude
(04:00):
to stay far away from that. Create as much distance
as I can between me and what has zero value.
But what I tend to find is is that people
who believe we have the least value in the market
will be the same people that constantly engage with our product. Now,
I don't know what you call that. Some people call
him marketing, but I call it mischievous. You know, it's
(04:24):
mischievous behavior from overgrown adults. But I'm here to get
a job done. I'm in the building to get a
job done. I'm at the forefront to get a job done,
and I'm talking to the doors out there, right. So
the first topic we're gonna talk about today is T Pain.
For people who do not know, T Pain made its
(04:46):
way over the Shannon Sharps podcast and he has some
choice words for a couple of different people. Now. T
Pain seems to be at the home stretch of his career,
and he seems to be reflecting on some of the
things that took place in this particular time. I feel
like something is on his heart and he's trying his
best to cover it up and smile through it. But
I think he feels a certain kind of way. So
(05:08):
T Paine went on Shannon Sharp's podcast and had some
very choice words surrounding DJ Kettley. Let's take a look
at what he said. Pay attention.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
What have you learned about this business in twenty years sitting?
Nobody is your brother? Nobody on paint. Don't do that,
nobody paint because I hear it. I hear it all
the time. That's my brother, I hear you have seen
so many dicks in that locker room. None of them
is your brother. Nobody is your brother. Everybody is your brother.
(05:42):
While they can use you, everybody everybody is your brother.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Wow, they can use you. Nobody is your brother.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
That is the quickest and the most consistent thing that
I've learned through this whole thing. You had to learn
that the hard way, everybody and everybody. And you know what,
it's only that say you my brother that I'm telling
just like that now, yeah, because you wouldn't allow you
(06:13):
wouldn't allow somebody that didn't say that to get close
to you.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
You would, so you would.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
I'd rather you tell me what the business was and
not have the brother aspects in there, and just say, hey, look,
here's what I wanna do. Here's what we're gonna do.
We're gonna do a hook, We're gonna i'm gonna put
a verse on this ship. We're gonna make a bunch
of money. I'm gonna we're gonna separate for a little bit,
and I'm gonna come back when I need you again.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Let's do it again.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
But I'd rather know the plan than to say you
my brother, you my brother, You my brother? No brother,
We always gonna be together. We ain't gonna never we
ain't gonna never separate. Anytime you need me. I'm here
for you anytime you need me.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Ba ba mom.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
But nah, bro, it's the brother ship. Nobody is your brother.
I've had DJ calling everybody then told me I'm your brother.
Do not believe that? Shiit Lord, That is the that
is the.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
You know you're gonna get me in trouble, man.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
You're gonna get us in trouble.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
I'm gonna get us in trouble.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
All that. But I mean, but but no, I mean
when I say when I say, when I say ship
like DJ Caller, it's very apparent like DJ Kellor knows
how to move, he knows how to you know, things
with different people and ship like that. But it's like
it's not, it's not it's not a DJ call It
type of thing. That's just the first person I can
think of. But we're talking about so many people because
(07:39):
you got to think of how many people I've helped
throughout their career. Everybody is like, oh my god, thank
you so much. You're my brother, and it's just so
much of that, back to back back to back, back
to back. You're my brother. You're my brother, you're my brother,
You're my brother. And then none of that ship was reciprocated.
None of that ship came back. None of that shit meant.
(07:59):
And when people, when people tell you how much you
mean to them, don't grab onto that. When people tell
you how much they can mean to you in return,
(08:22):
that's the shit you gravitate towards.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Damn.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
When when there's people on your team and sometimes like
I like, I love telling people that they're about to
get a raise.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Okay, you know what I mean. So I love I love.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Going to my team and like, hey, I'm about to
get your raise. And when somebody says thank you, man,
I appreciate it. Yeah, it's like, oh god, it's probably.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Gonna be your last race. But when I go to
somebody and I say, yo, you're about to get a.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Raise, and they say, can I is there something more? Work? Like?
Can I is there? Can you like also raise like
my responsibilities or something?
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Them?
Speaker 1 (09:09):
The people you keep right, you feel what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Them, The people you keep around, you know, And and
when you when you do something so astronomical as to
building somebody's career and they just say, Joe, you're my Brother,
bro By Gang never going to see you again. And
then it's like when you do something astronomical, like bro
(09:34):
you built my career up, there has to be something
I can do, right.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
That's the people you keep around with you. So clearly
this was a disci DJ Kelly. I think T Pain
did try to come out and backtrack and walk back
some of the comments and say that y'all just have
a different vernacular because I'm from the South or something
like that, while I'm from the South as well, and
I think T Pain needs to live in this truth.
I think there's a lot of people in the industr
(10:00):
that's living with these kind of stories, not necessarily about
Call It. I do think call It is in an
interesting position because there's an extreme upside for Kelly, and
when we look at it, call It doesn't even rap
or he doesn't produce, according to people I speak to
in the industry. And again, Loan's not attacking call It,
I'm attacking the system call It benefits in right, So
(10:22):
kell It understands how to work the Brother's system. And
for me, I understand that the industry has a silicon
soul and in this game, Brother is damn near like
a promo code. It's damn there, like use krole brother
to get Sidney percent off of whatever you need this
rap to do. And so people believe call it to
be in a position of where he'll brown knows a
(10:42):
little bit to get the job done. And so even
from outside of the industry, I watch people weaponize the
family word to cloak our business behind family. It leads
me to believe that there's certain perks there and there's
certain understanding there that may not be that it may
be a very hollow relationship, but it's just using the
family word because it gets work for cheap. See, it's
(11:05):
real old game. If you really come from the game,
you know, try to use that brother word and they
try to use that I with you type vibe to
get another work for cheap. And so I come in
the game, I come in the industry. From outside of
the industry, I watch people and I watch how they
weaponize the family word. I've watched people appropriate family culture
(11:26):
and cloak business behind this family word as a means
to get results, as a mechanism of control. And so
we do have to watch people. I think Tea Pain
is talking right, But at the same time, we have
to ask pain, have you been the person to do
that fake friendship shit? See what I need folks to understand,
And I've always understood that's why I don't do it.
(11:48):
That fake friendship shit is a weird dances playing. I
was younger and had mad respect for jay Z, but
I ain't gonna lie. I had questions. Yo. They called
their whole shit rock life familiar. Sigu went up to
get a lawyer and the door wouldn't answered. He needed
to get out of jail. J Hey, man, I ain't
got nothing to do this business. And at that point
(12:09):
maybe jay had grew up. I'm not sure, but I
had questions. I understood that we were lost in the
sauce at this point. And so when I see my
people in rep then they run around giving each other
a Talian mob name. See they playing on it, They
playing on it. See back in the day, they used
to name theyself behind a Talian mob families and it'll
(12:32):
be a record label when they'll sign you to a
record deal under the cloaks of lat familiar on some
mob kind of shit, like part of the family kind
of shit. And so it's allusion to the brain. You
think that this situation inherits the rules of the mob
because you ain't checking the tags. I'm into checking the
(12:52):
tags moving forward. And while you'll be dealing with black
Americans doing high level business in rap and cloak their
self behind in it Italian's name and inherit the values
of the mob while doing business really bad business. And
so you will watch Team Pain be frustrated and understand that. Yo,
what you're really saying is what we're doing is we're
(13:13):
watching DJ Kelly move around using brother as a promo code.
You know how when I read an ad, use my code. Yeah,
some of these know how to get in these rooms
and use my cod Brother, and you can get everything.
Damn they're free. You understand what I'm saying. But at
some point men have to recognize when people weaponize. We
(13:36):
got to recognize when people start to weaponize and it's
messed up because you'll have good people out here that
mean what they say and stand on they wordness. Also
in the mix with some of these people that's playing
high level games. Some of these folks that done read
their bullshit for their loss of power with all that,
and they think they executing high level game. That shit
is outdated. And old, and I say that respectfully. Everybody
(14:00):
got to start somewhere, but that's outdated. Game update your software,
love one. You know, we also got to look at
who's talking. We're dealing with T Pain. He was at
the top of the game. They made a lot of money.
I'm talking about that dude made a lot of songs
where music was really profitable, and he did help a
lot of people. He jumped on a lot of songs.
That was a lot going on with T Pain on it,
(14:22):
a lot of radio records, like a lot of labels.
But T Pain never put nobody on. And that's where
your legacy is always gonna live at. You can scream
from the top of the mountain about how many plaques
you got, it got to be the rest of the
world that saying. Now he puts six seven people, he
got a family, treat like his greatness wasn't just about him.
It was about more than just him. And I think
(14:44):
T Pain suffers from in his career we've yet to
see him put people on. Now. He may argue that
me giving those people songs put them on, and I
can push back on that, and we had that conversation.
But I think at the end of the day, the
culture has a different level of respect for the people
that grabs stuff and create something out of it. Right,
You'll see jay Z get reverence because all the people
(15:06):
and all the business he done outside of music. You'll
see fifty get that reverence because of all the business
he's done outside of music as well as inside of music.
You'll see Cash Money get that reverence because of all
of the business that they have done in music and
all of the different artists that has came through their infrastructure.
When we look at t Pain, we don't see those
(15:28):
same results. But when you hear him say something like
that about cal It, I think it's important that we
all understand that what he's saying is I believed in
that brother shit. That's what really hurt my feelings. He's
saying he's hurt, and people may not recognize that, but
he's definitely saying, yo, I believe them when they some
of them, some of them, I believe when they come
(15:51):
with that brother talk. And I see that that didn't
really materialize, and so now you have to live with
the harsh reality is, man, I got all the money,
and they stole some money along the way, but they
also stole my perspective on people. That's when they tell
you people that this industry is dangerous, because when you
get here, you start to understand, Oh man, they are
(16:14):
they ain't even like they Oh he ain't even And
he talking God talking, he talking uplift your people, and
he really hater he talking how he really really he
a sucker. That's why I gotta create the method. I
don't ride no fad. I tell that yo. I create
the method. We standing at the top of the mountain
(16:35):
and some of the innovators in this culture and me
and God gotta understanding that as long as I got
breath in my lungs, if they make the sea, I
make the cell, they make the wall, I make the door.
Hear man, I'm gonna figure it out. I'm gonna really
figure it out every step of the way. I ain't
gonna even allow him to get ahead of me. But again,
this isn't a diss that call it. This is an
(16:55):
examination of the ecosystem that cal it thrives in. Now,
I also want to take you guys to what Ace
Hood came on my show and he had some things
to say about DJ Kelly. It's important that we understand
that this business breeds bad behavior. And so I listened
to Pain and he talks about Kelly, and I say, well,
I just had Ace Hood on and for me, you know,
(17:17):
I heard Ace Hood go to Joe Budden podcast and
he spoke about, Yo, there was a seven figure bout
as it pertains to me getting out of my deal
with DJ Kellen. And I didn't understand that, at least
me looking at the business and saying, yo, he doesn't
been very successful. I'm sure he's recouped. He had songs
that has went platinum four and five times over when
you look at his catalog, right, And so I was
(17:38):
always interested in why did he cost a million dollars
for you to leave that deal? And so he explained
it on the episode, and I think he was trying
to be diplomatic, right. Ace Hood is a good dude,
so he's trying to be diplomatic. I also want to
look at what he said about Kelly, seeing that Tea
Pain is saying, yo, Kelly is surviving in this weird
little space where he's not a rapper, he's not a producer,
(17:59):
but everybody is his brother. And I don't know Cali.
I know people around call it some of my business
connects and my political connects, got a lot of respect
for them. But we examining the game. Pay attention to
what Ace Hood said about DJ Kelled on this up
that podcast. Listen look at this clip, but in't podcasts
because I don't understand this, and maybe you can, you know,
(18:21):
help gain some clarity. But you said that when you
were getting out of the Cali situation, that it was
seven figures. What does that mean? Like, how does that
look as far as like contract negotiat What does that
mean you just need to pay a million dollars? Is
that what the verbage of that it is? Or what?
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Well, at that time, it was just a number, right,
you know what I'm saying. So before any negotiation anything
went down, or any discussion around the contract, this is
what Bro wanted initially. But again, I'm a guy, I'm
a young man who understands the both ends of the.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Spectrum.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
So I'm understanding, like, this is just a fluff number,
This is just something to scare me. This is something
coming off of currently it's frustration and how we feel
and boom boom, But also too, it was very real,
very real for me, So and I knew what at
the reality at that particular time, I couldn't just up
and give a bro mial. You see what I'm saying
for the situation, and I feel like it and I
(19:21):
feel like that would have been just taken advantage of him.
Two At that point too, I'm like, you know, to
give you an m for real, like you know what
I'm saying. What I know, my work done, spoke for itself,
like it's cool down and everything like that. Once we
got to and even you know, everybody even killed. Now
it's like, now we can have a real conversation about this,
you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
And I've seen on Breakfast Club where they kind of
asked him about.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
You, but to ask what were the best eight Hood
was like your first artist first time?
Speaker 4 (19:46):
Are you still and you're still together? Or Ace Hood
doing his own thing? You know what I'm saying, that's
my brother. I support him one hundred percent the best
of all he is he is, but he wants to
do his own thing.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
You know what I'm saying, why right now? You the
red hot.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Everybody makes his own decisions. But at the end of
the day, is we got love. It ain't no like
you know, I sometimes, you know, artists might want to
do something and maybe you know, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
I can't I can't speak for him. I don't know
what he's thinking.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
But at the end of the day is we bless him,
we love him, and he's you know, I've been with
him from the birth of ay so so I've supported
him and I'm always gonna love him and if you
ever need me, I'm here to support one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
You know, he does kind of what Calid does, kind
of dance around it, and it's love, love, and you
know what I'm saying. And then you tweeted following that
you said that only if everything you said in an
interview was true. Have you guys spoken since then? What's
the relationship with you guys, if at any But what's
the feeling with Calid and that situation with we the best?
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Well, there is no situation, you know what I'm saying
between me and me and bro. You know that's just
only history between me and dog. On my end, I'm
a man of love, you know what I'm saying. Like
like so, there is no love lost and you did
what I'm saying. But at the same time, I'm not
looking for anything from him.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
I think that I wish him the best with what
he has going on with his kids, with his family
and everything. But there is no relationship, not to say
that there will there. There won't be a relationship nor
a conversation, which I feel that maybe there will be
God willing to see it so that it will be
a conversation between us two to mend some things out
or to just have a conversation. But you know, nah,
(21:27):
there's no relationship at this current moment. But what's holding
it back? What do you think is?
Speaker 1 (21:33):
I mean? Because if you cleared the debt, you pay
whatever was ass you guys negotiated a number, would you
guys seeming to be so close during that run, what
would make it at this point we haven't even spoken right, right, Like,
what is what would you contribute that to? Uh? Well,
I would say there's a few things that contribute to that, right.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
So that was a moment in time for me where
I took a step back from the industry right to
just go more introspectives, learn about myself, to recreate myself,
rebrand and all of that stuff. So that was that
whole process that went down right when I became independent,
so I went on my own personal journey to find me.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Not so you hear Ace Hood is like, yo, I
shared some of those experiences and this came out before
T Pain went on went on Shannon shawp showing, and
also Ace Hood spoke about T Pain on My show.
And I think that's what makes this conversation a little
a little interesting because it's like, Yo, when I look
(22:31):
back at the person T Pain may have became in
that moment, right, he was on fire. Literally we probably
ain't seen or run next to Drake and people like that.
But we're talking about T Pain coming from the South,
solo records all across every genre. He was dancing everywhere
because it was singing but it was hip hop, right,
(22:52):
and then the entire game was changing over to the
auto tune. Future helped it. Like there's just a lot
going on at one time. T Pain is thriving. But
I do remember when Future and Acehood was trying to
just shoot a video for walk Up in a new book.
Got it? He come out, Yo, that's my car. It's
like he was kind of ashole in, you know for
(23:14):
saying that. And I think you know, I don't know
where he was in his mind, and I think the
competition with Future at that point and thesehood explained it.
But I don't think that that was T Pain's best decision.
I don't know, Pain, but looking back at that, it
feels like I hate to move. But some of the
bigger records that Payne has, he gave the call it.
All I do is win and shit like that caller
is gonna eat for generations off them kind of records.
(23:36):
And T Payne know what it takes to get going
in this industry. It take a whole bunch to get going.
And if I'm being completely honest, if we're just depending
on DJ Kellet to get you going without him using
any other rappers as features. I mean, he has a
lot of relationships, but I think it's a hard fight.
But if he's able to use the promo cod Brother,
(23:57):
then he may be able to get this new artist.
T Pain jump on this joint, Rick Ross jump on
this joint. Baby may say a few words on this joint.
You know, I get Drake, I make him. I can
pour some strings because I'm using promo cod Brother. And
so when we think about what music was, it was
in a totally different spot even when we look at
it now, we're talking about we've watched our industry devalue
(24:19):
music in our face and nobody done nothing. Everybody just
sat there and watched them devalue music in front of
our faces. Now the splits then change in some regards,
they even got worse. Here's the trick they hid behind
payouts because streaming boom. But we'll get into that. I
want to talk to you guys about the article that
(24:40):
I was just reading about the record labels and how
they're pushing for Spotify to raise his prices as it
pertains to what is pain to license the music. This
is a very interesting conversation, but I want to deal
with some of the backdrop when we look at the
entire entertainment industry as it pertains to streaming music is
(25:03):
still on the rookie contray, and so you're going to
see them perrot behind some kind of artist centric rollout
to make it seem like whatever they're fighting for is
in the best interest of the artists. But I do
want to look at the backdrop of some of these conversations.
We've watched them devalue rap in a way that I
was always surprised on the outside. It's a reason why
(25:25):
rap feels dead. I would argue that it's not dead,
but it feels dead because they've devalued the filing. It's
a cheap three on now, all right, let me speed
it up and give you some game. I remember a
time when there was no Netflix, and all you had
to deal with was like Comcast, which was Infinity, which
was another company before that, I can't think of the name.
(25:47):
But what we were dealing with is everyone was watching
cable TV. They even started to put ad ons on cable.
The way it was starting to become astronomical. I mean
people were paying five hundred dollars a month, right, not
because that was the base package, but there's this new
culture that I'm now because I'm a business owner and
I have to study some of these funnels and some
of these plans. I'm starting to understand the add on hustle,
(26:11):
the funnel hustle, right, and so we're just dealing with
it on a high level. Peep game. I remember when
cable was the thing, right, So cable was in a
scenario where everybody had cable in their home. I mean,
your home was not a home without cable, and while
music had already started to shape what it looked like
and felt like as it pertains to LimeWire, Napster and
(26:33):
I'm just freestyling, So if I get some of this wrong,
y'all bear with me. On the other side of entertainment,
you had music which was forming and understanding that the
download was coming and we were gonna have to shape
shift and figure out a way to profit off this
download thing. Something's going on, right, and so on the
other side, and in home entertainment, when we deal with
cable TV, stuff started to pop up like what like Netflix.
(26:57):
Netflix understood number one, everybody had cable, so they dominated
the market. They had to devalue what you felt about cable.
Oftentimes you got to take a loss to do so.
And while we saw all of the innovation in traditional
TV music from an artist level stage, the same they
didn't band together. They didn't bundle anything together. They're waiting
(27:20):
on the labels to figure stuff out. And I think
that's the problem. We're not utilizing each other, we're not
utilizing the tools, we're not utilizing that understanding. Listen, when
I saw Netflix pop up back in the day, they
started to attack what you were paying for cable. They
were attacking even live TV. They were attacking something that
was a luxury in America for quite some time, live television.
(27:42):
You're watching this live and we're reporting live from that
took something that was a luxury and they devalued it.
They started to tell you, man, you know, I know
y'all talking at live TV talk, but who wants to
have to be home at a certain time to watch
something they have control over, y'all? They know everyone to
be at home eight watching. They flipped the narrative and
(28:06):
they changed the customer behavior and made the customer belief
they yeah, forget that live TV stuff, and it's too
how and it'll go out. Long as I got Internet,
I can get Netflix now. Netflix came in at a
lower price, because sometimes you got to take a loss
to make a point. So they came in at a
lower price and stole the entire market, changed the customer
(28:30):
behavior only to do what raised the prices right back
up on you. So while you complained about cable being
high for all of that time, now when you look
around after you get done playing for Netflix and Hulu
and sports and NFL and NBA and your favorite Movie Channel.
You now in a position of where you're back paying
what you were paying for cable before Netflix came in
and made their justification. So it's high level game. But
(28:54):
in music, we watched them devaluating. Nobody done anything. And
so when I say the music business is on the
rookie contract, what I mean is they're still moving how
they did in the eighties. That's what I be looking
at some of the rappers and saying, y'all ain't understood.
You gotta come get with loan and roll out of
interview and some content. You gotta put it on eight
in and somebody and we gotta roll out some shit
(29:15):
together to make a real impact across all markets. Y'all
really still hustling like y'all in the eighties. Man, you
better ask them is in jail now? You better update
your software. It's still hustling. Listen. They still getting the record,
dropping two videos and then letting that labels push them
to the same radio stations doing the same one too.
(29:36):
Everybody else is elevated. They hustle. Now, I ain't saying
everybody doing that. Salute the Travis Scott. You'll see the
astro worlds pop up salute the drake, the overo fences
pop up. You'll see some of these things, right. You
need better learn how to bundle and innovate your hustle.
All let hustling like y'all in the nineties. Drop an album,
(29:57):
put a video out, and let the label just working
to whoever they tell you to go, sit with wherever
they tell you to go. And you wonder why you
get left out in the cold when they've done with you,
because you don't know the method. I keep telling you
when they find with me, they create the ocean. I
create the cell, they create the lock. I create the key.
I ain't even focusing on what they creating. Whatever they create,
(30:20):
I'm gonna create the bigger thing, the better thing, the
thing that are outlast there is. So let them create on,
let them hate on. You ain't learning no methods. It
gets places I go in America. Right now, you shut
the feel of your gas, take up and get a
free Apple subscription. Yeah, the industry is moving. It's the
(30:42):
artists that they ain't moving. Man. You shut to go
and buy a movie ticket and get a free Apple
subscription Netflix, see, because they trying to change your behavior.
It's only the artist that's sitting there saying, y'all, let
me know what to do. When y'all figure it out,
you gotta be more innovative or you're gonna get left behind.
(31:02):
And not only am I not a fan of the
nineteen eighties music business hustle that deve rappers usually do,
which is drop an album, drop a video, and go
wherever the labe will tell you to go. I want
people to take note and take notice of when Loon
sits on the top of the mind and say, yo,
they have no interest in valuing the artists of today.
(31:22):
I think there's so many clear indicators. I just gave
you one. I'll even give you another one. Look how
they playing with AI right in these places, and so
you will have some artists. Why I'm not doing the
AI thing. I'm just not gonna allow it to happen.
You know, I'm not gonna give my voice over to
the AI. And so what they're sitting back saying is, oh,
this food don't know. He thinks you bigger than the program.
(31:44):
You in our system. Boy. Oh so you don't want
to participate in AI. So what you're saying is we
won't be able to give your voice and style in
our system. So I tell you what we'll do. The
next couple of cs we sign again, will take the lost,
similar to how Netflix did when they wanted to change
the customer behavior. Will take the loss and invest in
a new cropper artists. These next couple of artists, what
(32:05):
are they used for? We weaponize this next cropper artists
to work with our legacy artists to sign off their
rights to singles that we can then put into the
machine or the system or the AI learning model or
whatever we're using on the back end. It's trying to
train some of these systems on how to make music
and continue to devalue what music looks like. And so
(32:29):
when you see some of these labels or whoever drop
this press release come out and say, yo, they're fighting
for artists, you got to remember what that means. It's
really game up under game. They running high level game
on folks because they're not renegotiating the splits, they're renegotiating
the subscriptions, and there's two different conversations. But they're using
the artists as a shield to make the artists fight
(32:51):
for them. Because who's the lowdest people on the planet.
The artist who has the most influenced the artists. Right,
So if I can get you to believe that you
emotionally involved and this is in your best interest, maybe
I get you to fight for me or take some
time and listen. All of these blogs are bought anyway,
so they can kind of put the narrative out anyway
by way of just spending the money. With these blogs,
(33:12):
they'll post whatever the labels say if they just pay
them the money, point blank period. Spotify already pays roughly
seventy percent of music revenue out as it stands today,
and so when you have that kind of costline, you
gotta remember that. Number One, they're under pressure from the
shareholders to get that margin high, like we want to
see better profits. As we're looking at Netflix, they keep
(33:34):
raising the price. They trick them people over there for
seven dollars a month, and now they done got it
up to thirty and forty dollars a month. Hulu got
you over there for free, but you got ads every
ten seconds. But what will happen if you pay the money?
You don't get no ads. You get what's called premium,
and then if you pay on top of that you
can get four K. Then what about on top of that,
you can really get eight K and you can get
(33:55):
to record some right, they took you right back to cable,
but they out of mind on you as has made
everything add ons. I was looking at that in real estate.
I said, oh, that's the new game. The new game
is add ons. Get you in here for cheap and
hit you with a bunch of add ons. This is
the new hustle. And I'm also tell you something to
help them trig artists. This is the real game. This
(34:18):
is something to help them trig artists. People get it
confused that people are still in bad deals. The music business,
for the most part, has not changed. Outside of maybe
a select few artists, the music business has remained the same.
There are a lot of people in bad deals now.
The only difference is the splits didn't change. But in
(34:39):
came this new line item, and there was some payouts
happening because streaming exploded. It's so to be stuck in
up deals and they would still get money because streaming
was new, and so sometimes they gave the illusion that
the music business had changed. I believe what's happening in
the music right now is the same thing that happenedational
(35:00):
TV when Netflix came in. Now music always be music,
but the behavior has to change. We have to change
the behavior, similar to how they change the customer behavior
from traditional TV to now y'all get to watch it
on demand. See what you need to know is is
that Comcast play the role in changing their own customer behavior.
(35:22):
How did they do that? They had their own owned
demand system, but now this was the this was the
final boss on themand the Netflix, and so now they
had to compete with what they've already helped create, and
it just blew them out the water. What we're dealing
with now? Where is I think they're devalue in music.
Streaming already turned fans into secret investors of the music ecosystem.
(35:45):
People don't even realize that, like y'all are investing in Spotify,
investing in Apple that fifteen dollars a month. They look
at y'all like shareholders. Y'all just don't own a percent
of the company. That's the best kind of shareholder. It's
like crowdfunding or some shit y'all doing. And I think
music suffers the most because nobody's innovative, because nobody knows
the method. The people that know the method are at
(36:07):
the top of the food chain and they're hiring other
tech guys, and this business is about to get dark
for people that's just still hustling like it's the nineties. Yo,
I'm gonna drop my album and drop some videos. Your
career be dead soon. See, there's different kind of people
in this industry, in this game, and it's entertainment thing
in business period. There's people that control the knife and
people they control the pie. One of the biggest assets
(36:30):
of the person that controls the knife is that they
give the person that controls the piwe the illusion that
they controls the split. And so when we deal with music,
I think the first fight is with the splits that
the artists are getting out of these contracts. And so
I don't want to hear the labels telling me that
they're changing the infrastructure for the artists when the contract
(36:54):
didn't change. The only thing that change is the invoice
to Spotify, Apple and Title and so that's my thoughts
on it. I want to have one more conversation too
about the business today. We're just getting into the business.
Podcasting is changing for people who do not know podcasting
had a boom. A lot of people were relevant around
(37:16):
the Kendrick Lamar and Drake battle. I didn't even participate
in it. You know, I survived throughout it without even
diving into it at all. I didn't invite one person
on to have an interview about it. I didn't do
any real commentary onner. Now, of course I popped up
sometimes when I was just bored and spoke about it.
But maybe that was me losing money at that point
(37:37):
because according to everyone, you know, everyone thrived when Drake
and Kendrick Lamar was going at each other and they
had breakdowns. Nonetheless, we've been dealing with a change in
market as we're talking about music and how we're still
on this rookie contract. I think podcasting is now on
its second contract, right, it's no longer on the rookie contract.
(37:58):
It's on the second contract. And those that don't see that,
especial still operating out of their rookie deal with the
rookie understanding now what I'm dealing with. We had a
podcast by the name Bigger Picture with Elliott Wilson, d
J Head and Jeremy Heck, and we had Need to
Know podcasts with Alex and sa Von who are part
(38:21):
of the Joe Budden universe, and so because they're part
of the Joe Budden universe, I think it's only right
that we play our theme song hit that music out
(38:43):
the Need to Know Boys. You know I'm from the
south Man. Turn me up cool, That's how I'm good.
Speaker 5 (39:08):
Somebody took my boys friends.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
And I'm so alone already me even though you.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
Don't away, and I want to see you in something I.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Used to with my boy, even slag with my boy,
used to bag with my boy. Damn, I'm missing my boy.
You know I'm from the south Man. You know what
I'm saying. That's that's our version of it. Now, say
Vaughn and Alex they had a show called need to Know.
Before I get into my commentary, I do want to
(39:55):
give them a chance to tell you something of what
happened to them and some of the obstacles they face
why running their business. Pay attention to this clip.
Speaker 5 (40:04):
On the outside with the studio, with all the success
and the guests and the beautiful part of it. But
the reality is the DEI affected us directly.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
It definitely did. It definitely definitely did so.
Speaker 5 (40:15):
What DEI is For anybody who doesn't know DEI is
diversity equity inclusion. So a DI program is basically a
plan by a company, school, or organization to welcome different people,
give fair opportunities, and make sure everyone can participate. According
to Jack chat GPT, why many organizations saying they're stop
(40:36):
or rewriting their DEI programs, There are several reasons, often overlapping.
Here are the big ones. Legal pressure, Some federal and
state rules have changed, and organizations feel that certain types
of DEI efforts could raise legal risk, political shifting businesses.
All right, I'm not going to go through all of this,
but you understand what DEI is.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (40:59):
DEI was continued, yeah after the federal level. So all
of the brands that I had mentioned earlier, the McDonald's,
the Walmarts, the Hulus, the Magniums, all of it, they
no longer had to They were not obligated to invest
or work money aside for with you know, black creators.
(41:21):
And that directly affected us to where the agency that
we work with no longer was receiving the money from
those companies, and that company no longer or our ad
agency no longer felt like they could or had the
money to spend with us in the same way that
they were before. Didn't just affect us, but it affected everybody.
Speaker 6 (41:40):
Now you're sir, and we were so confused, right because
you're like, yeah, we had a certain amount of ads
coming in per month. And then when we kind of
got the understanding of what was changing right and what
was removed, you start to realize how things on the
federal level could affect you here at the ground level.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
So yeah, that was a very very big part.
Speaker 6 (41:56):
Of it, and we've had to kind of just keep
it pushing, right, trying to keep costs a float, trying
to make sure that there's certain money in the accounts
to pay for the things that we have to pay for, right.
Employees got to get paid certain up, back and up, so.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
You get the gist of it. Basically, one of the
things they cited was the number one Let me say this,
running a podcast is hard. Running a business and podcasting
is hard. It's way more than conversation. I know, people
see it happen and they think, yo, I can do that. Man,
we do that out of time. Where I'm from, there's
people that I have watched kind of try to follow
(42:32):
me and follow my footsteps, which that's why I leave
footprints in the sand. That's exactly why I leave footprints
in the sand so I can try that. If they
leave with nothing else, they'll have respect for what I've
done because they tried to do it themselves at the
bare minimum. Now, let me say this. There's a lot
of people from the Joe Budden universe. And I say
(42:54):
this respectfully because Joe Budden has built the ecosystem I
have a lot of respect for. That's allude to the
homeboy ish. We ain't spoken or while, but that's my guy.
But it's important that all of these gentlemen understanding. Standing
to a chef don't make you a chef. It make
you a soux chef. Nah, just because you bring me
(43:15):
the limons on me, right, just because you brought me
the onions on me, just because you yeah, you might
have cut the meat. Yeah understand me. You a shoot yeah, man,
come on now. So I need people to understand that
when we start to have these high level conversations, because
when I'm listening to something as a chime in and
I say, where that bravado come from? What a that
(43:38):
bravado car? How they get to talk like that? These
gentlemen come from the Joe Budden universe. I'm not sure.
I think I may have seen this show one time
when when they had Joe on and the fans send
me a clip where they spoke about me. I guess
they they didn't favor something that I was speaking about.
They were trying to be on academics good side, and
(43:59):
so he won't even acknowledge that the show canceled or
it was ever created, but that that's nonetheless, but said
something about I guess I'm not their cup of tea,
which is fine because I'm not everyone cup of tea.
I'm not interested in being everyone's cup of tea. That's
not that's not something that I'm a static about being
everyone's everyone's cup of tea. But I know it's too
(44:22):
many people that got Stanama from other people's work. I
know two many of y'all got Bravado that y'all ain't earned,
views that y'all ain't accumulated, right, and I'm seeing high
level games going on right when I look at because
when this happened, the first thing I said was, Woa,
this is the Joe Buddens universe. Let's look at look
into this a little more and see what happened. They
(44:44):
said they were making money last year. They blamed DEI. Listen,
I don't participate in pitty parties, and that's not the
downplay d I don't want to sound like I'm someone
that has any kind of influence this downplaying DEI, because
that's not my understanding of it. But I'm interested in
equal opportunity, but not equal outcome. And I think when
(45:05):
we start to get into that equal outcome spot, I
think that's when we get to a slippery slope. Now,
what I do want to say is DEI in itself
is not that, but we do have people like these
gentlemen that has benefited when they must not couldn't sustain
that interest with the company without the DEI thing in place,
because if the numbers was numbering, none of my shit
(45:28):
is based on DEI. I didn't even like, I'm not
interested in going to pity parties, right, I want to
go to the party where they see the value and
what in the dish I'm bringing. See, that's the thing,
this thing we got culture. We all bring a dish
to the party, right, they bring the music. I bring
this kind of conversation. They bring that kind of conversation.
(45:50):
I wan't allow them to devalue my dish at the party.
All that old. It's a DEI project and we're looking
to promote on black podcasts. I'll pass on that one.
Love the relationship is not real again, I tell y'all
fake relationships. That's a weird spot to be in. I'm
not interested in being your token black show.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
Now.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
That could be counterproductive, And that's exactly why I don't
make all the decisions by myself. Right. I got a
team of people that's involved because they may be a
productive move to go and be a certain show at
a certain spot, But just from a holistic standpoint, it
just feels nasty. But sometimes I gotta be utilized as
a tool. I gotta know, I ain't gonna feel the
greatest in every door I walk in. I ain't gonna
(46:33):
feel the greatest doing everything I must do for the
calls and the culture, and I'm gonna do it by myself.
I ain't interested in connecting arms with none of these
sucking ads because they ain't hustlers and they don't come
up like I come up. So the word brother don't
mean none to them, The word freeing don't mean none
to them. Respect don't mean none to them. They can
be bought and soul. I can't do it. So I'm
(46:56):
doing this alone. I need to support the money. The money, Yeah,
you don't got to show up sitting the money. Same time,
I'm watching Joe and they say he made twenty million
last year, I'm saying, man, that's a lot of money, right,
And so I'm watching how he moving number one PSA
for everybody out there and for me. I look at
(47:18):
Flip and say, when they put Flip on the show,
they elevated the show, but they elevated in a way
that I felt like, you can never get rid of
Flip now, Right, It's like putting salt on your chicken.
It's like once you feed the dog table food, it's
gonna be hard to now feed them dog food. And
I see them struggling with that. Now. With the camaraderie
(47:38):
that they have on the show, it's kind of rough.
It's just kind of it ain't cohesive like it was
with Mail and Flip and they had got into a groove, right,
It's just it's back. It's a bumpy roll for the
last ones that I had watched. And so what I'm
noticing is that he's trying to in my opinion, and
again I'm speculating, but it feels like he's trying to
(47:59):
remove Flip up from the show. I think that's a mistake.
And the reason I think is a mistake is because
I think Flip presents a dynamic that nobody else can present.
They may say the new girl Mona presents that, and
I would argue the other side of that, But what
I will say is this, it's one hundred percent fact
that he's phasing the mouth. And so I'm hearing behind
(48:20):
the scenes that Joe Budden is phasing Flip out to
phase Surf in when he gets out. They're saying, I
guess Surf got sixty to ninety days left. Then he
may got six months and he'll be acclimated after that, right,
So maybe sometime next year you replace that Flip energy
with Surf, and I think Surf can handle Mona. I
(48:42):
think Mona has now put Flip in a weird spot
because of all of the shit that happened with Mail.
If Mona was the first person, I think Flip handles
that different and he handles it better. But while I
watch podcasting, I watch what Joe's built, and he's built
some astronomical He's making a lot of money. These guys
are successful. I need people to understand they have now
(49:04):
changed their customer behavior, and that's the only way that
you win in this game. So what I'm trying to
train you guys to understand is is that the only
people standing still is the artists. Even though I said
it's up the podcast, we see all that we are
changing our customer behavior, even the guys on streaming and Twitch,
they've changed the YouTuber's customer behavior to now you gotta
(49:28):
spend something, man, or you're gonna see a bunch of ads.
Now they can circumvent the process because Twitch is owned
by Amazon and there's no inap purchase for you to
be paid. You could just have a prime membership and
still get your money, right, it's the whole thing that goes.
But I'm telling y'all it's high level being's being ran.
The only people standing still is the artist waiting on
(49:49):
the label to figure it out. We over here doing
podcasts saying yo, I know you like to watch the show,
but you used to spending five dollars a month on it.
You used to spending ten dollars a month on it.
You used to spend it twenty dollars a money on it.
With changing our customer behavior, the artist is still going
to record his music and dropping one and two videos
and trying to go on tour and thing, and that's
(50:09):
just all he has to do. I think that's where
he suffers that that's me, that's my opinion. That's how
I give it up. So sometimes you don't understand everyone's moves, right.
I believe that a lot of the people that's impactful
in the market are great podcast is. I think sometimes
it's a bad fit. Now, what I will say is this,
your job is to expand your audience, and so sometimes
(50:31):
you will bring in a girl that may has a
female audience and you're trying to get them acclimated over
here with you. There's a balance in act that's happening
on the show, not just with you. See, sometimes a
person like Joe can be someone that's in that position
and believe in his ability to figure this out. Right,
like Yo, I can adjust to a new host at
any moment, like they can throw anybody and we'll figure
(50:51):
it out. Give us four months, we'll figure it out.
Everybody can't do that and I think sometimes he's asking
of his co host a bit much. You understand, because
you now asking these people to just be like Yo,
a new energy, a new vibration, a new voice, and
any moment can just enter the building. It's like a
rural rumble over here. Yeah, this shit like rural rumble
(51:15):
every thirty seconds. It's like a new run into the couch. Right.
But all in all, I think podcasting is doing well.
I think we have a far way to go, right.
I'm still building my team around my business because again,
it is a volatile business. I also see a lot
of people that struggling to get views, that struggling to
get listens, Like it's a dark time for podcasters. You know,
(51:39):
my word is my word. I'm gonna try to continue
to be who I am and continue to bring good
content hopefully y'all enjoy. But with the canceling of all
these other shows, what do I feel and what's my
thought process on the end of It's Up That Podcast?
Find out on the next episode of It's Up That Podcast.
(52:00):
I love y'all, See y'all next week. Love
Host
Looney
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