October 22, 2024 • 38 mins
This week, Tommy is joined Alice Oseman and Patrick Walters, the creative forces behind the smash-hit Netflix series, Heartstopper. Alice is an award-winning author, illustrator and screenwriter who created the LGBTQ+ romance webcomic, Heartstopper, which is also published as a graphic novel and has been adapted into the television series by the same name. Patrick joins Alice as an Executive Producer on Heartstopper (starring Kit Connor and Joe Locke) and works at See-Saw Films which is an Academy Award, Emmy and BAFTA winning television and film production house. Today, Alice and Patrick open up about what keeps them wanting to continue telling this fan-favorite story, how they were both surprised with how mainstream the series became, if Alice always hoped her webcomic would turn into a television series, why Kit and Joe were the only choices to play the roles of Nick and Charlie, the powerful moment from filming season one that made them realize they made the right decision in their casting, something that may surprise you about Kit and Joe, the scene from the comics that was adapted into the series that they are the most proud of, welcoming Jonathan Bailey to Season 3, if a potential Season 4 may be the last, how they protect their mental health in such a fast-paced job, an emotional response to what they've never said before, and so much more.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey guys, welcome to I've never said this before with
me Tommy di Dario. Today is a special episode because
I have not won but two incredibly gifted guests on
my show who brings so much.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Joy to the world through their work.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Alice Osman and Patrick Walters are behind the smash hit
Netflix series Heartstopper, a show that I think many people
wish will go on forever. Alice is an award winning author, illustrator,
and screenwriter who created the LGBTQ plus romance webcomic heart Stopper,
which of course is now published as graphic novels as well,
and has been adapted into the series by the same
(00:38):
name that You Know and You Love, starring the one
and only Kit Connor and Joe Locke. Patrick joins Alice
as an executive producer on heart Stopper and works at
Seesaw Films, which is an Academy Award, Emmy and BAFTA
winning television and film production house. These two humans men,
they are quite special and they have brought to life
characters in Heartstopper that makes so much many viewers feel
(01:01):
like their personal stories matter, that they deserve to be seen.
It's quite special. What they have built. So let's see
if today we can get Alice and Patrick to say
something that they have never said before. Alice and Patrick,
(01:21):
how are you today?
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Good?
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Yeah, not too bad.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Welcome to New York.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Are you enjoying yourself?
Speaker 4 (01:27):
Loving it? Yes?
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Yeah? Yeah, we got a hey yesterday, so we've we've
sort of been all over the place in a compecial
amount of time. But yeah, it's fun.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
It's been a whirlwind, well wind, yeah, But I feel
like your lives are whirlwinds because you always have so
much going on. You're a part of such a fan
favorite project Heartstopper, of course, that had season three recently
come out. There's there's so much I want to dive into,
but I guess to begin. This question came to me
in the shower, oddly enough. But I'm so curious about
(01:56):
this because I'm not sure what my answer would be
this far along, and that question is I want to
start with you, Alice. So season three obviously is out now,
Volume five of your graphic novel is out as well.
That's been out. What continues to keep the inspiration flowing
for you? What keeps you motivated to keep writing this story?
(02:16):
Because you've now lived with it for quite a long time.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (02:19):
Yeah, it's been eight years since I started making the comic.
I mean, Nick and Charlie are just such precious characters
to me. They've existed for even longer than Heartstyle pers existed.
They were characters in my very first book, which I
wrote in twenty twelve, so they've been with me for
(02:39):
a really long time. And I've always had this vision
for this story and I have to see it through
to the end, like I want the complete story of
Nick and Charlie to exist in the world. And so
that's what keeps me going.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
I guess, And you know how you want it to end?
Speaker 4 (02:58):
I do. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Yeah, that's so interesting to me. From a creative standpoint,
I assume there are some writers and artists who write
and kind of form story as they go along with
the ideas of where they want it to go. But
then there are some who also very much now how
it's going to end, and that's fascinating to me. And
here you are one day what online kind of coming
across the web series, the webcomic, and you were like, oh,
(03:22):
there's something here, Like how did you kind of discover
it and decide I need to adapt.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
This exactly like you describe. I was just I came
across it on the internet and I read the first
bit of volume one and I just had a sort
of fan reaction in that I loved it and I
was like, Wow, this could be a really amazing TV
series because the way that you draw Nick and Charlie
is so expressive, and it sort of shows a kind
(03:47):
of emotionality that has joy and scale and like something
epic in it in very small, kind of quiet private moments.
And so that was the thing that I was like,
that could be really good in TV. And then it
was very quickly after I read it that I contented
your agent and we were suddenly in a room together
with your agents there, and I was kind of like
(04:07):
pitching to you, being like, come and do the TV
journey and you know, and I think even then we
had an idea that you might want to try screenwriting.
So yeah, I really approach Hotstoppers like a fan. So
I sort of test in my own head, like, as
a fan of the graphic novels, is this going to
make me happy in terms of the adaptation, And yeah,
And that's how we've done it for five years.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Now, I guess did you have any idea that it
would be so explosive in terms of the success of
the series, because obviously people love your work, but you
just never know how something can translate. And in the
world we live in, I know you hear this from
probably Azillien people, so you know, forgive me for repeating
probably what everybody tells you. But it's such a special show.
I didn't grow up with anything like this. I am
(04:51):
a millennial. I didn't have this. I didn't even know
it would be possible to marry my husband, and like,
it's just such a form of art. I never knew
what exists, and it makes me so happy to see
that it does for other generations and not just in
the community, for people to have understanding outside of it
and compassion and love and all the things. So did
you think the world was ready for something like this?
(05:12):
Do you have any fear with that?
Speaker 3 (05:13):
I think in how we pitched it as a TV show,
we were conscious that the TV industry hadn't yet gone
there with characters that age and a really kind of
singularly queer story, and so we were able to pitch
it at the right time as this show doesn't exist,
but it should exist. And so when we started talking
to Netflix, that argument I think was very strong in
(05:36):
the room, and they were like, yeah, they're kind of right.
And so it was with the intention of creating something
that needed to be out there, but that wasn't out there.
So in answering a question around did we expect it
to have the impact, we didn't expect because that was
like too scary. But I think we hoped that it
could connect.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
In this way.
Speaker 5 (05:55):
Yeah, we definitely didn't think it would blow up to
the extent that it has done. It's so mainstream now,
like it's huge. I never imagined it could be that big.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Yeah, and you forget that before it was out there
on Netflix, there wasn't anything like it, And now that
it's there so so strongly, it feels like it It's
always been there in a way, and it now feels
mainstream in a way that it totally didn't when we
were when we first started the conversations with Netflix, it
felt like, I really want them to take a chance
on this, but it might not happen, you know.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
So when you created this, did you ever think maybe
one day this could be a series? Like did that
ever Cross reminded it ever become a goal of yours?
Speaker 2 (06:35):
What was that process?
Speaker 4 (06:36):
Not at all.
Speaker 5 (06:38):
I mean, I've been in the book world for much
longer than I've been in the TV world, and I
know that book adaptations are so rare, and books get
optioned and then the options fall through and they never
get made. To have actually have a book adaptation made
is so rare, Like.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
I can't explain express how rare that is.
Speaker 5 (07:00):
So I'd never even let myself imagine that that could
happen to one of my books. And with Heart Stopper,
I wasn't even sure that it could get published as
a book. You know, it started as a webcomic which
I was uploading for free online. And when I first
tried to get it published, I spoke to my agent
and she sort of explained, there's not really any market
(07:20):
for this kind of story in the UK right now.
There aren't really contemporary why graphic novels at all, and
so publishers aren't going to be interested, and yet here
we are.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
That's so funny when people, especially on the executive level,
say oh, there's no market for it, it hasn't been done,
people don't want it. It's like well, why can't I
be the first, you know, like, why can't we make
this what people want?
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (07:46):
And I see that happening even today. I either are
things I want to pitch and develop, and I've been
met with some of the same feedback, and I'm like, well,
if you won't help me, I'll just do it. Like
it's to just stick to what's safe and what people
already like, what's the fun in that?
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (08:00):
And I think that's credit to you, Alice in terms
of like you went on beyond that advice and were like, well,
I just love this story and I want to do it,
and I'm going to upload it and create it even
despite that, And yeah, it then creates the sort of
environment for us to go and pitch The Shock to Netflix.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Well then, God, you stuck to your gun. You saw
something special in it. Ka Connor and Joe Locke people
have fallen in love with. They bring the rules of
Nick and Charlie to life so brilliantly. Why were they
the right guys to play these roles?
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Ah?
Speaker 4 (08:30):
So many reasons like that.
Speaker 5 (08:32):
I mean, we found it first, and he was so
different to everyone else who we'd seen an audition for Nick.
He was younger than almost all of them, and he
had this real open hearted, vulnerable, emotional interpretation of Nick
(08:52):
which you just can't help but feel for, you know,
you care about him so much when he's performing, and
that really captured Nick Nelson to me.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
And then a.
Speaker 5 (09:03):
Little bit later we found Joe Locke through the open
audition process and he sent in a self tape where
he did like a monologue of Charlie Spring and also
he did a little bit where he just talked to
camera about himself and told us about his life in
the Isle of Man and like how he was out
as gay in his school and he related to Charlie
(09:26):
and I was like, well, that's Charlie Spring, like that,
there he is.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
And that was in a batch of like, I don't know,
twenty tapes that we were looking at the time, and
it was maybe I think it was like the second
or third batch of Charlie's from the open auditions that
we'd had through. And I remember that moment where Joe
just like his tape really stuck out to both of
us and we were both like, yeah, there's one I
quite like and it's like it was the same one. Yeah,
So yeah, it really did feel like they both walked in.
(09:55):
And also we were doing this in COVID, so we
were doing all of these like very intense and quite
with Zoom auditions, where like at one point we had
Kit and Joe coming on to do a chemistry read
over Zoom and like they have to be in the
Zoom waiting room.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
That sounds so hard.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (10:09):
Yeah, that's the first time they'd ever met, was on
Zoom and had to immediately do a Nick and Charlie scene.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Joe's in the waiting room and it's like and then
they pop up and they're.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
Like, they're like, oh, hi, nice to be.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Even then, you felt a kind of palpable like it. Yeah. Yeah,
it was really exciting.
Speaker 5 (10:28):
I remember it exactly and I was like, well that's Nickie.
Yeah yeah wow.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
And you've said I believe that the show just wanted
to even work without them at this point.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
No, definitely matches.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Yeah, so wild. I mean, the casting of it is
pretty remarkable testament to the eyes that you both have
and in terms of bringing this project to life. Was
there a moment from season one that you can remember
where you were watching their work and you both thought, oh,
we made the right decision.
Speaker 5 (11:00):
I mean so many moments. I think probably the first
romantic scene they had to do was when Charlie runs
out of the house in the rain and then they
kiss under the umbrella. I remember us being really stressed
about that because we were like, this is the test,
like the romantic chemistry has to be there or the
(11:21):
show's not going to be good.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
And it was one of those days where the day
was running long and we were kind of losing time
a little bit, and we were losing light, and it
was taking really long time to set that up because
I think there were rain machines because he's.
Speaker 5 (11:33):
Running on the rain full giant rain machines, it's freezing
that they're freezing, like they're really cold, and everyone's kind
of uncomfortable because it's horrible weather and like, but they
just nowed it. And I remember I was standing next
to the director's assistant and we were watching it, and
I turned to him and he just had like tears
(11:55):
streaming down his face watching this scene, and we were like, Okay, yeah,
it's going to be okay, the show is going to
be good.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
I think there was there was another moment that I'm
thinking of from season one where it's in the bedroom
where Nick has come round to Charlie's and he's he's
come in the rain and it's like, I'm having a
proper full on gay crisis that moment. And we filmed
that in a studio and I saw Kit was kind
of getting into the dramatic mode for that because it's
obviously quite a big intense scene and like hair and
(12:23):
makeup people are like spritzing his hair so it looks
like he's just coming from the rain, and he was
just totally in the zone. And it was the first
time I'd seen him act like one of those really
kind of like big two hander scenes with Joe, and
he just went in and smashed in. It was just
so incredibly moving, like that's sort of like I don't
know what to do. I'm freaking out. It felt really real.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
And by the way, that line of bigger crosis, I
couldn't be any better, could be any better. I've been
there many times, many times. The world feels like they
know them right, They're obviously not their characters. And I
always when I bring a lot of actors on, I
(13:05):
always stress the importance of that that these are humans
behind a character, and let's get to know the real person.
What's something about them that you think would surprise people.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
Oh, I don't know.
Speaker 5 (13:19):
I mean they're sort of real life dynamic. I think
is very funny. They're able to act so incredibly as
thinking Charlie, but in real life they're kind of like
bickering brothers, i'd say, And there's.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
Lots of improv that happens. So like when we're filming
montage scenes, there's lots of it in season three where
it's like Nick is going to visit Charlie at the
mental health facility, he's staying out, and so they're kind
of dramatic scenes, but because they're in montage, the dialogue,
it just needs to be sort of incidental and the
things that can't enjoicate to each other because we can
hear them on the Sometimes it's truly the.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
Most particulous starring scarring. I really hope it never comes
out exactly.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
That's incredible, and I like that you allow the space
for them to do that kind of you know, form
their bond on their own time as well, which is
really really cool. Is there a scene from the comics
that have been adapted into the series that you are
the most proud of because there's so many good ones.
I know that's a hard question, but what's the first
thing that might come to mind.
Speaker 5 (14:19):
I think first thing that comes to mind is probably
the snow day in season one. Obviously, that was a
very tricky thing to achieve. That involved snow machines and
completely transforming this area of a park into a snowy field.
And it looks so beautiful in the show. And I
(14:39):
wasn't really expecting it to look so magical because I
knew it would be a difficult thing to make happen.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
So and that was a kind of amazing date in
another way, because Kinjad just been announced is Nick and Charlie.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
It had gone out in the press that like, these
were the two factors that have been casting those roles,
and so their phones were like blowing. So they would
like run around and do this kind of magical, like
fun improv in the snow, and then it'd be cut
and they go back to their phones, and I just
saw them seeing their lives kind of changeing in quite
a big way. And that was added to it too.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
There are so many beautifully shot scenes.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
I mean, even the beach.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
I remember looking at the colors and that in that
beautiful moment with the two of them and running around
and going in the water, and it's just visually such
a treat to watch it. It's pure escapism. For this
current season, was there a scene or a moment where
you had some stress or anxiety around you wanted it
to be absolutely perfect? There was kind of that build
(15:35):
up and then you shot it and we're like, oh
my gosh, we did it.
Speaker 5 (15:38):
I mean, the fight was and another one where I
was like, how are we going to do this? Like
it's a huge some affair with all the rides and
I was like, okay, this is how how are we
going to make this look real? How is it going
to be as magical as it is in the comics.
(15:59):
The art department. I feel so grateful for our art department.
I think they're so incredible. To do what they do
on the budget that we have is like amazing.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
I think that fantastic. And I mean I'm thinking of
the moments where in the comic something really lovely and
magical happens, like Nick's out of the Sharer and that
he runs after Charlie into the street barefoot and chases
after him to say I Love you back, Which when
you're actually filming that with like real people, there's all
these things like he's not got his shoes on, so
running that fast is going to be like really painful,
(16:32):
and then it's cold because it's the night like all
of these things that.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
In the comic like doesn't matter yeah when.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
You're doing it, but then actually you get there and
it's like, ah, poor Kit and Joe are like putting
them through it. We've always made them going in the sea.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
Or going in the sea. Yeah, oh my god.
Speaker 5 (16:46):
Yeah, that was a nightmare in every savable level.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
So when you get that that level of performance from
them despite those kind of like you know, just human
things that you have to take into accout when you're filming,
that always a relief. Yea in the can.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Yeah, those are all super special moments. And another one
that people are loving from the season, the Jonathan Bailey
of it all. I know he was answered I believe
for one day exactly correct. Yeah, and you fed him
a bunch of lines that he had to learn on
the spot. Yes, he beefed up his role. Why did
you want to welcome him into the Heart Supper family?
Speaker 5 (17:18):
Well, he wanted to come and join us, didn't he?
Speaker 4 (17:21):
He you, I've got an actual.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Friend and I had met him and he was just
so lovely about the show, and Yeah, it was like
kind of like, if there's any way I can be
part of it, I'd love to make that happen. And
I was like, really, it sort of seemed kind of amazing.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
But like a bit unreal.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Yeah, and you had the perfect character that we realized
in season three would be a really good part for him.
Speaker 5 (17:45):
Yeah, because it needed to be decent cameo. You know,
he can't just show up, give one line and then leave.
It's like, that's Jonathan many that's pretty weird. But I
had this character from a side comic that I did
just online it's not in the books, about Charlie's celebrity crush,
who is a classics professor. And we read that and
(18:09):
we thought, Okay, that's kind of the perfect role for
Jonathan Bailey, and it could be a really funny little
sequence that we can tie into the plot in some
ways too.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Could he be any more charming?
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Right?
Speaker 1 (18:20):
I interviewed him for Fellow Travelers and him and that bomber,
and it was one of the best conversations I've ever had,
And I'm like, I get why not only are you
working so much, but why people respond the way they
do because you're just.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
A good human.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Yeah, you're a good human, right, And it seems like
everyone involved in your production is the same way. I
imagine that's important for you not just to have talent,
but to have nice human beings around.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
Yeah. We always try.
Speaker 5 (18:44):
When I think thinking more about like the crew members,
you know, we're always trying to find people who have,
like the hot stopper energy.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Is energy? How would you define that?
Speaker 3 (18:56):
I think it's like, I mean, it starts with understanding
that love for the story. So a lot of people
who come onto the show, you know, we've been working
with Hods from season one all the way through to
season three, and they are really passionate about heart Stop
and what it means. So for them it's like really
important to not just do the work in terms of
(19:17):
their craft, but also like contribute to the story. And
you feel that with all of them. You know, Adam,
for example, is our costume design and he's been with
us for three seasons and he's evolved the looks of
all the characters and it's like a huge job because
he also has to deal with all the school uniforms
of all the extras, and it's like it's a lot,
but he just absolutely adores to show. Until we've always
just had such an easy dialogue with him, and that
(19:38):
extends to you know, that's just one example.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
When you think about your journeys so far with the
show and obviously be on the show, with how you
started this project to begin with, what would you say
has been the most powerful thing about being part of
this entire process?
Speaker 5 (19:56):
I think maybe the initial reaction to season one. It
was a real moment for everyone where people were responding
in such emotional ways to it, saying this has helped
me come out to someone in my own life, or
it's helped me understand my child better, like real human,
(20:17):
kind of deep reactions to the thing that we'd been
working on for so long.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
Yeah, that was a huge moment.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
It was really overwhelming that it extended, I think through
a lot of the people who'd worked on it. After
season one came out, it was like getting calls from
people just being like, oh my god, can you believe
this is the kind of emotional because it really Yeah,
it hit then, I think.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
And I love when I see people writing online. You know,
I'm in my fifties, I'm in my sixties, and I
know I'm not the target demo, but this really reaches
and connects with me because I never ever thought that
this world could exist, and now they're seeing it at
an older age and they feel so seen. Things like that,
I feel like, are so incredibly powerful.
Speaker 5 (21:02):
Yeah. Yeah, again, it's so unexpected, Like I never imagined
that so many people of all different ages and life
experiences would be able to find something in hartstuff, but
they have and that's really special.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Let's talk about the end of season three a bit
where we see Nick starting to need more of that
emotional support, right, Do you see more in that storyline
coming or do you want to develop that a bit more?
Speaker 4 (21:29):
Yeah? Absolutely.
Speaker 5 (21:30):
I mean I'm working on volume six of the graphic
novels at the moment, which is post season three story wise,
and that is very much the focus of the story
is Charlie is now doing really well, he's kind of
thriving at school, or Nick is actually starting to struggle
because he's starting to realize he's been focused on Charlie
(21:51):
for so long, helping Charlie through this really dark time
that he hasn't been focusing on himself and he doesn't
really know who he is outside of this relationship. So
Nick has his own journey to go on, I think,
to figure out what he wants out of life, particularly
as he's going to be leaving school soon. He's going
to be going off into the big wide world.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yeah, and you've never written both things side by side.
This is the first time. Right where you're kind of
tying the show with the graphic novel, you're kind.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Of caught up.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
I caught up.
Speaker 5 (22:22):
The moment I caught up was right at the end
of when I was working on volume five. While I
was during that, I was literally writing those scenes in
the script at the same time.
Speaker 4 (22:34):
That is stressful. Yeah, yeah, it's very stressful.
Speaker 5 (22:37):
But yeah, so now, yeah, I just have to keep going.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
It's safe to say a season four might be coming
Fingers Crossed.
Speaker 5 (22:45):
We haven't got any solid news as of yet. Obviously
we'd love to. I really really just want to tell
the end of the story on TV and bring all
of those characters their stories to a close.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
So yeah, fingers.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Crossed before it would be the end of Yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
For I don't accept that's a nice. Okay, so you
might have to stretch it out right, Yeah?
Speaker 4 (23:06):
Yeah, yeah, you think you can do that?
Speaker 3 (23:09):
Is that the schedule has for graphic novel and TV
version of Hard Stopper has been pretty punishing on you
in terms of, like just because Alice literally does everything,
and so it's a really unique scenario where usually there
are lots of writers working on a show or they
don't have quite the level of like sort of extreme
forensic you know, attention to detail that Alice does all
(23:30):
the way through. So it puts a lot of pressure
on you, and I'm always like, oh god, I'm having
to ring Alice up and be like, hey, we need.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
X by this.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
It's just it's a lot.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
Yeah, so you need a break?
Speaker 5 (23:41):
Yes, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Well I was going to ask, is it hard to
separate from that work that you love so much and
you're so invested in and so involved in. But as
a human, I'm sure sometimes you want to focus on
you without that, So is it hard to find that
balance right now for you?
Speaker 4 (23:56):
Definitely?
Speaker 5 (23:57):
My life has been Hot Supper full time for several
years and I love it, like I really really do
love it. It's not like I'm.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
Tired of it. Or anything.
Speaker 5 (24:06):
I adore heart Stopper, but I am excited to find out,
you know, what I could do once I don't have
heart Stoppers to work on anymore. There's so many exciting
different things that I could make, and that's really Yeah,
I'm really looking forward to that.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Yeah, well, when that time comes, it will be well deserved.
I have a few fan questions. Okay, I have three
of the most popular questions I saw when I asked
two as my guest. Okay, so these kept coming up
over and over and over again. The first one was,
how was the process of finding the soundtrack from the season?
And what are your favorite songs from the season.
Speaker 5 (24:42):
Oh well, every season, me and Patrick we make a playlist.
While I'm writing. We just we're putting songs in there
that remind us of the season, remind us of heart Stopper.
And then in the editing process, once it's all been filmed,
the editors use the play to pick songs for the scenes,
or they find something with like a similar vibe.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
Then when we're reviewing.
Speaker 5 (25:06):
Episodes, we give our opinions, don't we And yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
Yeah, it's sort of by season three, it kind of
it feels like a muscle that we Yeah, it is
quite kind of like we've got down the art of
what hart stopper song is and how it needs to
sort of sync to what's on screen. And I think
we've been lucky obviously in that we've that Sounds has
gone over really well with the fans and Netflix get
that it's really important to get the right music, and
(25:31):
so we've been able to get bigger artists as we've
gone on, like Taylor Swift and Billie Eilish this season.
So it's been a really satisfying creative bit of the process.
Speaker 5 (25:40):
And there's so many great songs in season three. One
of my personal favorites is wish on an Eyelash by
more Rat, which just like made me cry so much
when I first saw it in the scene. And there's
also two amazing tom Odell songs which are just beautiful
again made me cry, like, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
I think it's also nice to go back to us
is that you've used in previous seasons. So there's an
amazing in at one where Nick and Charlie go into
the scene and they both want to have this conversation
but about different things, and there's this amazing kind of
quite melancholy baby Queen song that we've got in that moment,
And obviously we've had loads of her tracks in the
previous two seasons, and she kind of cameoed in season two.
(26:21):
So it's always good to have that kind of family
spirit to it, which I think has been how we've
tried to do it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Yeah, I mean music is so important, right, it tells
the story as well, and you guys, you nail it
consistently with what you two sell.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Kudos to you.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Second most popular film question, Will there be a collected
book of the scripts released?
Speaker 5 (26:47):
I mean, no current plans, but that would be really cool.
I feel like I would enjoy that, maybe once the
heart of the show has come to a close. I
think that would be really fun for people to to see.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
It's reminded me that in season one we were you
were writing it over the pandemic period, so it was
kind of lockdown, and so we had a lot more
time to finesse those scripts. Even we even put in
where the hartstop or animated sequences where you doodled into
the script. And when the actors had had the scripts
of season one, they saw little petals or sparks of
electricity or whatever it was that was going to be
(27:21):
on screen, and then we've got we've had less and
less time that I think season two and three.
Speaker 5 (27:26):
Would have to kind of like season two we did it,
and then season three we did I'm sure we did.
Speaker 4 (27:32):
Yeah, yeah, well.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
That would be pretty cool to see that.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
That's special.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
And last man question, if you had to choose another
one of Elise's works to adapt for the screen, which
would it be? Why me?
Speaker 4 (27:46):
Yeah, what would you pick? I'm intrigued Radio Silence.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
Yeah, yeah, it would be my pick. But I would
be happy and privileged to do.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Any of them. So why would you pick that one?
Speaker 3 (27:57):
I think it's just got a very it's very different,
but it also has that kind of like slightly unexpected
friendship and it's cool that I think is really really exciting. Yeah.
I love those characters.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Yeah, you're speaking as if this is happening. Are you're
breaking news right here? Okay, well we'll put it intah,
We're gonna manifest for you.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
I love that so much. The name of this show.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Is I've never said this before, and I love having
people come on who give a lot of interviews and
do a lot of press and get to talk about
the projects that fans love so much, but I also
love to learn a little bit more of the human
side of them. So I'm wondering, is there anything that
the two of you can think of today that you've
never said before that you want to share and that
question can mean whatever it means to you.
Speaker 5 (28:47):
Oh my gosh, I've never said before.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
You can take a minute time, I guess for me,
I've never said before. It's been really fun to be
out here with you, Alison, Like doing this press store
season three feels like such a kind of achievement, And
we've really been through the ringer on part stopper as
well as been so excited and passionate, and I think, like,
you know, you're really like my kind of creative partner
(29:11):
in this process, and it's it's so valuable just to
have that dialogue between us. Yes, it's really unusual, and
I've never said that before.
Speaker 5 (29:21):
Yeah, now I have so much pressure, Like I guess,
I've had such a positive experience of a book adaptation.
Speaker 4 (29:33):
I love the show so much. I'm so proud of it.
Speaker 5 (29:36):
I think it's one of the best experiences of book
adaptation I could hope for. But at the same time,
it has been really emotionally strenuous the entire time because
I care about the story so much. Anything that is
even slightly wrong feels like the world's ending in my mind.
(30:00):
So it's been so positive, but it's also the most
stressful thing I've ever ever done. And also it's taken
a lot of time for me to learn how to
work in such a big team because I worked on
my own my entire career until Heart Stopper, and suddenly
(30:24):
this story that means the world to me, I have
to trust other people to take care of it and
to use their own creativity to make something out of it.
And that was hard for me, Like that was really
a learning curve that I found really hard sometimes.
Speaker 4 (30:45):
But it's all worked out, so you know.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Well, and I think that's really cool you share that
because people see the success and the end product and
you know the glory of it all. But you are
a person that has a lot on your shoulders, and
of course that when something is this close.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
To your heart, you are going to worry.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
When you have other people that get involved, and not
worry in a negative way. You just want to make
sure it's handled with care. So I think that is
really an interesting perspective in going off of that. How
do you take care of yourself, because that's a lot
that you just described on your shoulders to take care
of you.
Speaker 5 (31:21):
I'm not the best at self care, I would say,
like trying to take a step away from it when
I can is really important. Not that I'm very good
at it, but you know, I've had I think I
did like a month off of social media last year,
(31:42):
and it truly felt like I was reworrying my brain
just not having access to everyone's thoughts and opinions about
Heart Stopper, which I love to read, Like I really
do love to read what people are enjoying and saying
about the show and about the comic, But just taking
that time away from that felt like I could breathe
(32:03):
a little bit for a while.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
We've had some We've had to have some like pretty
tough conversations about how there are often windows of time
where you have to move really quickly from a production
point of view, and what I've found quite challenging is
that puts so much pressure on you as the writer
because you write every script and you're also completely involved
in the pre production, the filming, and the editing and
(32:25):
all the post on the show. So sometimes I've been
in a position where it's like I have to go, hey,
if we want to film it at this point, which
oftentimes we have to because just the actors are growing up,
or there's whether windows, there's just really banal stuff actually,
and it ends up being like you've got to write
a script like a first draft and show it to
(32:45):
me like in about two point five seconds.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
Yeah, I feel oh, no, you know, And.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
That is the difficulty of behind the scenes making the TV.
Sometimes it's like it has I've been aware put you
in quite impossible positions a lot. Yeah, but yeah, we've
always come through and.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
We make it through.
Speaker 5 (33:04):
Yeah, Like the TV deadlines in terms of writing are
like nothing I've ever experienced. And I was an author
for a long time before I wrote for TV. But
you miss a deadline in TV, everyone's careers are like
messed up and you just can't. So it's been really
tough to have to work at that pace, I think.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Yeah, and sort of and kind of change the mindset
a little bit. In terms of like writing novels or
even the comic it's like it's a finished product that
you're putting out in the world and that's how you
want the audience to take it in and enjoy it.
Whereas the scripts are like they're like a blueprint for
coaction and it's like, we need to get the script
so the costume and the.
Speaker 5 (33:45):
Props and to give them my first draft, which like
as a writer, when I first had to do that,
I think it was season two where we just had
no time and you had to be like, the costume
designer needs the script, and I was like, I don't
want anyone to read my first draft, but I had
to because otherwise they don't have time to do all
(34:06):
the costumes. Like, yeah, so it's stressful.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Can I just say watching the two of you, I mean,
first of all, Heartstopper is a show to me that's
about family and forging these bonds that are just so
strong between friends and unconditionally being there for one another
through the ups and downs and everything in between. And
I feel like you have a partnership where that is
(34:31):
so true. And hearing how you were just speaking about
supporting Alice during these crazy tough times and how much
you need that support and receive it and want it
and trust Patrick to give that support is such a
beautiful thing to see because I really think that's one
of the many beautiful themes of the series. And I
don't know, I just can't stop smiling. It's just a
(34:55):
beautiful thing to witness in real life and with the
craziness of the world we live in. I love seeing
real moments between friends who are more like family like this,
and I don't know, I'm like getting a motion.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
It's it's really beautiful. It truly is.
Speaker 5 (35:07):
Yeah, that's it's so accurate, like we are a team,
us two and no matter what craziness is going on
in the production, like me and Patrick always have each
other's back, so and I feel like I would be
lost without that's.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Yeah, it's it's and it's so fun to do it
because even in the challenging moments, you're like, but we're
making a TV show we love and like, we're so
proud of all the actors performances, and getting to work
with amazing director and now exec producer on the thirties
and Eristlynn has also been a kind of real creative
partnership in that way, and now with Andy who's directed
(35:46):
season three, Like you do meet these people that you're
like yeah, this is great, but yeah, it's it's it's
we need that partnership, Beau. Otherwise it would just be.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Yeah, well, we're lucky for it. And something tells me,
aside from work, that two of you have some fun
on your downtime. I'd like to be a fly on
that one, because I feel like you're a fun bunch too.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Yes, I do.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
Well.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Before we head out, I want to give you the
mic for a moment to talk directly to the amazing
fans of heart Stopper who have been showing up and
showing out and giving support, especially for season three. What
would you like to say to them as we head out.
Speaker 5 (36:22):
Well, I really attribute the success of Heartstopper to the fans,
you know, the TV show specifically, because it gave heartstupp
At that boost at the start. It had such a passionate, supportive,
excited fan base, which at the time was much much
smaller than it is now, but it gave that show
its first lift, and I really think the show wouldn't
(36:43):
still be around today if it wasn't for that initial
group of fans who really pushed it. And they're still here, Like,
you know, the fans are still here and they're still
so excited, and I love to read all their analysis
of tiny moments in the show that most people probably
don't pick up on, but they care about those little moments.
(37:05):
And we've just been to a screening in Toronto which
was with fans of the show, and I love watching
it with fans because they care about every tiny little moment.
There's like cheering and laughter and like they see all
the tiny details that we've spent so much time putting
effort into. So yeah, thank you to everyone for that.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
Yeah, I mean, I just echo that, Like the trick
is also just just doing those screenings, like watching it
with fans, making sure you don't take for granted that
love because it's so constant, and that's just like blows
my mind. You can just go on any social media
platform and find really interesting analysis of what we've done
in the show versus how it wasn't a comic for example.
(37:49):
So yeah, it's that level of noise has, as Alice said,
made the show the success it is and it's been
life changing for all of us. So yeah, we're really grateful.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Yeah, well I think we are very grateful as well
for what you put out into the world. Heartstopper Season
three is out now. Everyone's stream it. Thank you both
so much for hanging out and for sharing your magic
with me today.
Speaker 4 (38:11):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
I've Never Said This Before is hosted by Me, Tommy Dedario.
This podcast is executive produced by Andrew Puglisi at iHeartRadio
and by me Tommy, with editing by Joshua Colaudney. I've
Never Said This Before is part of the Elvis Duran
podcast Network on iHeart Podcasts. For more, rate review and
subscribe to our show and if you liked this episode,
(38:37):
tell your friends. Until next time, I'm Tommy Dedario
Hey guys, welcome to I've never said this before with
me Tommy di Dario. Today is a special episode because
I have not won but two incredibly gifted guests on
my show who brings so much.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Joy to the world through their work.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Alice Osman and Patrick Walters are behind the smash hit
Netflix series Heartstopper, a show that I think many people
wish will go on forever. Alice is an award winning author, illustrator,
and screenwriter who created the LGBTQ plus romance webcomic heart Stopper,
which of course is now published as graphic novels as well,
and has been adapted into the series by the same
(00:38):
name that You Know and You Love, starring the one
and only Kit Connor and Joe Locke. Patrick joins Alice
as an executive producer on heart Stopper and works at
Seesaw Films, which is an Academy Award, Emmy and BAFTA
winning television and film production house. These two humans men,
they are quite special and they have brought to life
characters in Heartstopper that makes so much many viewers feel
(01:01):
like their personal stories matter, that they deserve to be seen.
It's quite special. What they have built. So let's see
if today we can get Alice and Patrick to say
something that they have never said before. Alice and Patrick,
(01:21):
how are you today?
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Good?
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Yeah, not too bad.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Welcome to New York.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Are you enjoying yourself?
Speaker 4 (01:27):
Loving it? Yes?
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Yeah? Yeah, we got a hey yesterday, so we've we've
sort of been all over the place in a compecial
amount of time. But yeah, it's fun.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
It's been a whirlwind, well wind, yeah, But I feel
like your lives are whirlwinds because you always have so
much going on. You're a part of such a fan
favorite project Heartstopper, of course, that had season three recently
come out. There's there's so much I want to dive into,
but I guess to begin. This question came to me
in the shower, oddly enough. But I'm so curious about
(01:56):
this because I'm not sure what my answer would be
this far along, and that question is I want to
start with you, Alice. So season three obviously is out now,
Volume five of your graphic novel is out as well.
That's been out. What continues to keep the inspiration flowing
for you? What keeps you motivated to keep writing this story?
(02:16):
Because you've now lived with it for quite a long time.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (02:19):
Yeah, it's been eight years since I started making the comic.
I mean, Nick and Charlie are just such precious characters
to me. They've existed for even longer than Heartstyle pers existed.
They were characters in my very first book, which I
wrote in twenty twelve, so they've been with me for
(02:39):
a really long time. And I've always had this vision
for this story and I have to see it through
to the end, like I want the complete story of
Nick and Charlie to exist in the world. And so
that's what keeps me going.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
I guess, And you know how you want it to end?
Speaker 4 (02:58):
I do. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Yeah, that's so interesting to me. From a creative standpoint,
I assume there are some writers and artists who write
and kind of form story as they go along with
the ideas of where they want it to go. But
then there are some who also very much now how
it's going to end, and that's fascinating to me. And
here you are one day what online kind of coming
across the web series, the webcomic, and you were like, oh,
(03:22):
there's something here, Like how did you kind of discover
it and decide I need to adapt.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
This exactly like you describe. I was just I came
across it on the internet and I read the first
bit of volume one and I just had a sort
of fan reaction in that I loved it and I
was like, Wow, this could be a really amazing TV
series because the way that you draw Nick and Charlie
is so expressive, and it sort of shows a kind
(03:47):
of emotionality that has joy and scale and like something
epic in it in very small, kind of quiet private moments.
And so that was the thing that I was like,
that could be really good in TV. And then it
was very quickly after I read it that I contented
your agent and we were suddenly in a room together
with your agents there, and I was kind of like
(04:07):
pitching to you, being like, come and do the TV
journey and you know, and I think even then we
had an idea that you might want to try screenwriting.
So yeah, I really approach Hotstoppers like a fan. So
I sort of test in my own head, like, as
a fan of the graphic novels, is this going to
make me happy in terms of the adaptation, And yeah,
And that's how we've done it for five years.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Now, I guess did you have any idea that it
would be so explosive in terms of the success of
the series, because obviously people love your work, but you
just never know how something can translate. And in the
world we live in, I know you hear this from
probably Azillien people, so you know, forgive me for repeating
probably what everybody tells you. But it's such a special show.
I didn't grow up with anything like this. I am
(04:51):
a millennial. I didn't have this. I didn't even know
it would be possible to marry my husband, and like,
it's just such a form of art. I never knew
what exists, and it makes me so happy to see
that it does for other generations and not just in
the community, for people to have understanding outside of it
and compassion and love and all the things. So did
you think the world was ready for something like this?
(05:12):
Do you have any fear with that?
Speaker 3 (05:13):
I think in how we pitched it as a TV show,
we were conscious that the TV industry hadn't yet gone
there with characters that age and a really kind of
singularly queer story, and so we were able to pitch
it at the right time as this show doesn't exist,
but it should exist. And so when we started talking
to Netflix, that argument I think was very strong in
(05:36):
the room, and they were like, yeah, they're kind of right.
And so it was with the intention of creating something
that needed to be out there, but that wasn't out there.
So in answering a question around did we expect it
to have the impact, we didn't expect because that was
like too scary. But I think we hoped that it
could connect.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
In this way.
Speaker 5 (05:55):
Yeah, we definitely didn't think it would blow up to
the extent that it has done. It's so mainstream now,
like it's huge. I never imagined it could be that big.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Yeah, and you forget that before it was out there
on Netflix, there wasn't anything like it, And now that
it's there so so strongly, it feels like it It's
always been there in a way, and it now feels
mainstream in a way that it totally didn't when we
were when we first started the conversations with Netflix, it
felt like, I really want them to take a chance
on this, but it might not happen, you know.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
So when you created this, did you ever think maybe
one day this could be a series? Like did that
ever Cross reminded it ever become a goal of yours?
Speaker 2 (06:35):
What was that process?
Speaker 4 (06:36):
Not at all.
Speaker 5 (06:38):
I mean, I've been in the book world for much
longer than I've been in the TV world, and I
know that book adaptations are so rare, and books get
optioned and then the options fall through and they never
get made. To have actually have a book adaptation made
is so rare, Like.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
I can't explain express how rare that is.
Speaker 5 (07:00):
So I'd never even let myself imagine that that could
happen to one of my books. And with Heart Stopper,
I wasn't even sure that it could get published as
a book. You know, it started as a webcomic which
I was uploading for free online. And when I first
tried to get it published, I spoke to my agent
and she sort of explained, there's not really any market
(07:20):
for this kind of story in the UK right now.
There aren't really contemporary why graphic novels at all, and
so publishers aren't going to be interested, and yet here
we are.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
That's so funny when people, especially on the executive level,
say oh, there's no market for it, it hasn't been done,
people don't want it. It's like well, why can't I
be the first, you know, like, why can't we make
this what people want?
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (07:46):
And I see that happening even today. I either are
things I want to pitch and develop, and I've been
met with some of the same feedback, and I'm like, well,
if you won't help me, I'll just do it. Like
it's to just stick to what's safe and what people
already like, what's the fun in that?
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (08:00):
And I think that's credit to you, Alice in terms
of like you went on beyond that advice and were like, well,
I just love this story and I want to do it,
and I'm going to upload it and create it even
despite that, And yeah, it then creates the sort of
environment for us to go and pitch The Shock to Netflix.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Well then, God, you stuck to your gun. You saw
something special in it. Ka Connor and Joe Locke people
have fallen in love with. They bring the rules of
Nick and Charlie to life so brilliantly. Why were they
the right guys to play these roles?
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Ah?
Speaker 4 (08:30):
So many reasons like that.
Speaker 5 (08:32):
I mean, we found it first, and he was so
different to everyone else who we'd seen an audition for Nick.
He was younger than almost all of them, and he
had this real open hearted, vulnerable, emotional interpretation of Nick
(08:52):
which you just can't help but feel for, you know,
you care about him so much when he's performing, and
that really captured Nick Nelson to me.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
And then a.
Speaker 5 (09:03):
Little bit later we found Joe Locke through the open
audition process and he sent in a self tape where
he did like a monologue of Charlie Spring and also
he did a little bit where he just talked to
camera about himself and told us about his life in
the Isle of Man and like how he was out
as gay in his school and he related to Charlie
(09:26):
and I was like, well, that's Charlie Spring, like that,
there he is.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
And that was in a batch of like, I don't know,
twenty tapes that we were looking at the time, and
it was maybe I think it was like the second
or third batch of Charlie's from the open auditions that
we'd had through. And I remember that moment where Joe
just like his tape really stuck out to both of
us and we were both like, yeah, there's one I
quite like and it's like it was the same one. Yeah,
So yeah, it really did feel like they both walked in.
(09:55):
And also we were doing this in COVID, so we
were doing all of these like very intense and quite
with Zoom auditions, where like at one point we had
Kit and Joe coming on to do a chemistry read
over Zoom and like they have to be in the
Zoom waiting room.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
That sounds so hard.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (10:09):
Yeah, that's the first time they'd ever met, was on
Zoom and had to immediately do a Nick and Charlie scene.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Joe's in the waiting room and it's like and then
they pop up and they're.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
Like, they're like, oh, hi, nice to be.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Even then, you felt a kind of palpable like it. Yeah. Yeah,
it was really exciting.
Speaker 5 (10:28):
I remember it exactly and I was like, well that's Nickie.
Yeah yeah wow.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
And you've said I believe that the show just wanted
to even work without them at this point.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
No, definitely matches.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Yeah, so wild. I mean, the casting of it is
pretty remarkable testament to the eyes that you both have
and in terms of bringing this project to life. Was
there a moment from season one that you can remember
where you were watching their work and you both thought, oh,
we made the right decision.
Speaker 5 (11:00):
I mean so many moments. I think probably the first
romantic scene they had to do was when Charlie runs
out of the house in the rain and then they
kiss under the umbrella. I remember us being really stressed
about that because we were like, this is the test,
like the romantic chemistry has to be there or the
(11:21):
show's not going to be good.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
And it was one of those days where the day
was running long and we were kind of losing time
a little bit, and we were losing light, and it
was taking really long time to set that up because
I think there were rain machines because he's.
Speaker 5 (11:33):
Running on the rain full giant rain machines, it's freezing
that they're freezing, like they're really cold, and everyone's kind
of uncomfortable because it's horrible weather and like, but they
just nowed it. And I remember I was standing next
to the director's assistant and we were watching it, and
I turned to him and he just had like tears
(11:55):
streaming down his face watching this scene, and we were like, Okay, yeah,
it's going to be okay, the show is going to
be good.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
I think there was there was another moment that I'm
thinking of from season one where it's in the bedroom
where Nick has come round to Charlie's and he's he's
come in the rain and it's like, I'm having a
proper full on gay crisis that moment. And we filmed
that in a studio and I saw Kit was kind
of getting into the dramatic mode for that because it's
obviously quite a big intense scene and like hair and
(12:23):
makeup people are like spritzing his hair so it looks
like he's just coming from the rain, and he was
just totally in the zone. And it was the first
time I'd seen him act like one of those really
kind of like big two hander scenes with Joe, and
he just went in and smashed in. It was just
so incredibly moving, like that's sort of like I don't
know what to do. I'm freaking out. It felt really real.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
And by the way, that line of bigger crosis, I
couldn't be any better, could be any better. I've been
there many times, many times. The world feels like they
know them right, They're obviously not their characters. And I
always when I bring a lot of actors on, I
(13:05):
always stress the importance of that that these are humans
behind a character, and let's get to know the real person.
What's something about them that you think would surprise people.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
Oh, I don't know.
Speaker 5 (13:19):
I mean they're sort of real life dynamic. I think
is very funny. They're able to act so incredibly as
thinking Charlie, but in real life they're kind of like
bickering brothers, i'd say, And there's.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
Lots of improv that happens. So like when we're filming
montage scenes, there's lots of it in season three where
it's like Nick is going to visit Charlie at the
mental health facility, he's staying out, and so they're kind
of dramatic scenes, but because they're in montage, the dialogue,
it just needs to be sort of incidental and the
things that can't enjoicate to each other because we can
hear them on the Sometimes it's truly the.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
Most particulous starring scarring. I really hope it never comes
out exactly.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
That's incredible, and I like that you allow the space
for them to do that kind of you know, form
their bond on their own time as well, which is
really really cool. Is there a scene from the comics
that have been adapted into the series that you are
the most proud of because there's so many good ones.
I know that's a hard question, but what's the first
thing that might come to mind.
Speaker 5 (14:19):
I think first thing that comes to mind is probably
the snow day in season one. Obviously, that was a
very tricky thing to achieve. That involved snow machines and
completely transforming this area of a park into a snowy field.
And it looks so beautiful in the show. And I
(14:39):
wasn't really expecting it to look so magical because I
knew it would be a difficult thing to make happen.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
So and that was a kind of amazing date in
another way, because Kinjad just been announced is Nick and Charlie.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
It had gone out in the press that like, these
were the two factors that have been casting those roles,
and so their phones were like blowing. So they would
like run around and do this kind of magical, like
fun improv in the snow, and then it'd be cut
and they go back to their phones, and I just
saw them seeing their lives kind of changeing in quite
a big way. And that was added to it too.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
There are so many beautifully shot scenes.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
I mean, even the beach.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
I remember looking at the colors and that in that
beautiful moment with the two of them and running around
and going in the water, and it's just visually such
a treat to watch it. It's pure escapism. For this
current season, was there a scene or a moment where
you had some stress or anxiety around you wanted it
to be absolutely perfect? There was kind of that build
(15:35):
up and then you shot it and we're like, oh
my gosh, we did it.
Speaker 5 (15:38):
I mean, the fight was and another one where I
was like, how are we going to do this? Like
it's a huge some affair with all the rides and
I was like, okay, this is how how are we
going to make this look real? How is it going
to be as magical as it is in the comics.
(15:59):
The art department. I feel so grateful for our art department.
I think they're so incredible. To do what they do
on the budget that we have is like amazing.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
I think that fantastic. And I mean I'm thinking of
the moments where in the comic something really lovely and
magical happens, like Nick's out of the Sharer and that
he runs after Charlie into the street barefoot and chases
after him to say I Love you back, Which when
you're actually filming that with like real people, there's all
these things like he's not got his shoes on, so
running that fast is going to be like really painful,
(16:32):
and then it's cold because it's the night like all
of these things that.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
In the comic like doesn't matter yeah when.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
You're doing it, but then actually you get there and
it's like, ah, poor Kit and Joe are like putting
them through it. We've always made them going in the sea.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
Or going in the sea. Yeah, oh my god.
Speaker 5 (16:46):
Yeah, that was a nightmare in every savable level.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
So when you get that that level of performance from
them despite those kind of like you know, just human
things that you have to take into accout when you're filming,
that always a relief. Yea in the can.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Yeah, those are all super special moments. And another one
that people are loving from the season, the Jonathan Bailey
of it all. I know he was answered I believe
for one day exactly correct. Yeah, and you fed him
a bunch of lines that he had to learn on
the spot. Yes, he beefed up his role. Why did
you want to welcome him into the Heart Supper family?
Speaker 5 (17:18):
Well, he wanted to come and join us, didn't he?
Speaker 4 (17:21):
He you, I've got an actual.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Friend and I had met him and he was just
so lovely about the show, and Yeah, it was like
kind of like, if there's any way I can be
part of it, I'd love to make that happen. And
I was like, really, it sort of seemed kind of amazing.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
But like a bit unreal.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Yeah, and you had the perfect character that we realized
in season three would be a really good part for him.
Speaker 5 (17:45):
Yeah, because it needed to be decent cameo. You know,
he can't just show up, give one line and then leave.
It's like, that's Jonathan many that's pretty weird. But I
had this character from a side comic that I did
just online it's not in the books, about Charlie's celebrity crush,
who is a classics professor. And we read that and
(18:09):
we thought, Okay, that's kind of the perfect role for
Jonathan Bailey, and it could be a really funny little
sequence that we can tie into the plot in some
ways too.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Could he be any more charming?
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Right?
Speaker 1 (18:20):
I interviewed him for Fellow Travelers and him and that bomber,
and it was one of the best conversations I've ever had,
And I'm like, I get why not only are you
working so much, but why people respond the way they
do because you're just.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
A good human.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Yeah, you're a good human, right, And it seems like
everyone involved in your production is the same way. I
imagine that's important for you not just to have talent,
but to have nice human beings around.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
Yeah. We always try.
Speaker 5 (18:44):
When I think thinking more about like the crew members,
you know, we're always trying to find people who have,
like the hot stopper energy.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Is energy? How would you define that?
Speaker 3 (18:56):
I think it's like, I mean, it starts with understanding
that love for the story. So a lot of people
who come onto the show, you know, we've been working
with Hods from season one all the way through to
season three, and they are really passionate about heart Stop
and what it means. So for them it's like really
important to not just do the work in terms of
(19:17):
their craft, but also like contribute to the story. And
you feel that with all of them. You know, Adam,
for example, is our costume design and he's been with
us for three seasons and he's evolved the looks of
all the characters and it's like a huge job because
he also has to deal with all the school uniforms
of all the extras, and it's like it's a lot,
but he just absolutely adores to show. Until we've always
just had such an easy dialogue with him, and that
(19:38):
extends to you know, that's just one example.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
When you think about your journeys so far with the
show and obviously be on the show, with how you
started this project to begin with, what would you say
has been the most powerful thing about being part of
this entire process?
Speaker 5 (19:56):
I think maybe the initial reaction to season one. It
was a real moment for everyone where people were responding
in such emotional ways to it, saying this has helped
me come out to someone in my own life, or
it's helped me understand my child better, like real human,
(20:17):
kind of deep reactions to the thing that we'd been
working on for so long.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
Yeah, that was a huge moment.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
It was really overwhelming that it extended, I think through
a lot of the people who'd worked on it. After
season one came out, it was like getting calls from
people just being like, oh my god, can you believe
this is the kind of emotional because it really Yeah,
it hit then, I think.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
And I love when I see people writing online. You know,
I'm in my fifties, I'm in my sixties, and I
know I'm not the target demo, but this really reaches
and connects with me because I never ever thought that
this world could exist, and now they're seeing it at
an older age and they feel so seen. Things like that,
I feel like, are so incredibly powerful.
Speaker 5 (21:02):
Yeah. Yeah, again, it's so unexpected, Like I never imagined
that so many people of all different ages and life
experiences would be able to find something in hartstuff, but
they have and that's really special.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Let's talk about the end of season three a bit
where we see Nick starting to need more of that
emotional support, right, Do you see more in that storyline
coming or do you want to develop that a bit more?
Speaker 4 (21:29):
Yeah? Absolutely.
Speaker 5 (21:30):
I mean I'm working on volume six of the graphic
novels at the moment, which is post season three story wise,
and that is very much the focus of the story
is Charlie is now doing really well, he's kind of
thriving at school, or Nick is actually starting to struggle
because he's starting to realize he's been focused on Charlie
(21:51):
for so long, helping Charlie through this really dark time
that he hasn't been focusing on himself and he doesn't
really know who he is outside of this relationship. So
Nick has his own journey to go on, I think,
to figure out what he wants out of life, particularly
as he's going to be leaving school soon. He's going
to be going off into the big wide world.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yeah, and you've never written both things side by side.
This is the first time. Right where you're kind of
tying the show with the graphic novel, you're kind.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Of caught up.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
I caught up.
Speaker 5 (22:22):
The moment I caught up was right at the end
of when I was working on volume five. While I
was during that, I was literally writing those scenes in
the script at the same time.
Speaker 4 (22:34):
That is stressful. Yeah, yeah, it's very stressful.
Speaker 5 (22:37):
But yeah, so now, yeah, I just have to keep going.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
It's safe to say a season four might be coming
Fingers Crossed.
Speaker 5 (22:45):
We haven't got any solid news as of yet. Obviously
we'd love to. I really really just want to tell
the end of the story on TV and bring all
of those characters their stories to a close.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
So yeah, fingers.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Crossed before it would be the end of Yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
For I don't accept that's a nice. Okay, so you
might have to stretch it out right, Yeah?
Speaker 4 (23:06):
Yeah, yeah, you think you can do that?
Speaker 3 (23:09):
Is that the schedule has for graphic novel and TV
version of Hard Stopper has been pretty punishing on you
in terms of, like just because Alice literally does everything,
and so it's a really unique scenario where usually there
are lots of writers working on a show or they
don't have quite the level of like sort of extreme
forensic you know, attention to detail that Alice does all
(23:30):
the way through. So it puts a lot of pressure
on you, and I'm always like, oh god, I'm having
to ring Alice up and be like, hey, we need.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
X by this.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
It's just it's a lot.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
Yeah, so you need a break?
Speaker 5 (23:41):
Yes, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Well I was going to ask, is it hard to
separate from that work that you love so much and
you're so invested in and so involved in. But as
a human, I'm sure sometimes you want to focus on
you without that, So is it hard to find that
balance right now for you?
Speaker 4 (23:56):
Definitely?
Speaker 5 (23:57):
My life has been Hot Supper full time for several
years and I love it, like I really really do
love it. It's not like I'm.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
Tired of it. Or anything.
Speaker 5 (24:06):
I adore heart Stopper, but I am excited to find out,
you know, what I could do once I don't have
heart Stoppers to work on anymore. There's so many exciting
different things that I could make, and that's really Yeah,
I'm really looking forward to that.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Yeah, well, when that time comes, it will be well deserved.
I have a few fan questions. Okay, I have three
of the most popular questions I saw when I asked
two as my guest. Okay, so these kept coming up
over and over and over again. The first one was,
how was the process of finding the soundtrack from the season?
And what are your favorite songs from the season.
Speaker 5 (24:42):
Oh well, every season, me and Patrick we make a playlist.
While I'm writing. We just we're putting songs in there
that remind us of the season, remind us of heart Stopper.
And then in the editing process, once it's all been filmed,
the editors use the play to pick songs for the scenes,
or they find something with like a similar vibe.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
Then when we're reviewing.
Speaker 5 (25:06):
Episodes, we give our opinions, don't we And yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
Yeah, it's sort of by season three, it kind of
it feels like a muscle that we Yeah, it is
quite kind of like we've got down the art of
what hart stopper song is and how it needs to
sort of sync to what's on screen. And I think
we've been lucky obviously in that we've that Sounds has
gone over really well with the fans and Netflix get
that it's really important to get the right music, and
(25:31):
so we've been able to get bigger artists as we've
gone on, like Taylor Swift and Billie Eilish this season.
So it's been a really satisfying creative bit of the process.
Speaker 5 (25:40):
And there's so many great songs in season three. One
of my personal favorites is wish on an Eyelash by
more Rat, which just like made me cry so much
when I first saw it in the scene. And there's
also two amazing tom Odell songs which are just beautiful
again made me cry, like, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
I think it's also nice to go back to us
is that you've used in previous seasons. So there's an
amazing in at one where Nick and Charlie go into
the scene and they both want to have this conversation
but about different things, and there's this amazing kind of
quite melancholy baby Queen song that we've got in that moment,
And obviously we've had loads of her tracks in the
previous two seasons, and she kind of cameoed in season two.
(26:21):
So it's always good to have that kind of family
spirit to it, which I think has been how we've
tried to do it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Yeah, I mean music is so important, right, it tells
the story as well, and you guys, you nail it
consistently with what you two sell.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Kudos to you.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Second most popular film question, Will there be a collected
book of the scripts released?
Speaker 5 (26:47):
I mean, no current plans, but that would be really cool.
I feel like I would enjoy that, maybe once the
heart of the show has come to a close. I
think that would be really fun for people to to see.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
It's reminded me that in season one we were you
were writing it over the pandemic period, so it was
kind of lockdown, and so we had a lot more
time to finesse those scripts. Even we even put in
where the hartstop or animated sequences where you doodled into
the script. And when the actors had had the scripts
of season one, they saw little petals or sparks of
electricity or whatever it was that was going to be
(27:21):
on screen, and then we've got we've had less and
less time that I think season two and three.
Speaker 5 (27:26):
Would have to kind of like season two we did it,
and then season three we did I'm sure we did.
Speaker 4 (27:32):
Yeah, yeah, well.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
That would be pretty cool to see that.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
That's special.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
And last man question, if you had to choose another
one of Elise's works to adapt for the screen, which
would it be? Why me?
Speaker 4 (27:46):
Yeah, what would you pick? I'm intrigued Radio Silence.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
Yeah, yeah, it would be my pick. But I would
be happy and privileged to do.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Any of them. So why would you pick that one?
Speaker 3 (27:57):
I think it's just got a very it's very different,
but it also has that kind of like slightly unexpected
friendship and it's cool that I think is really really exciting. Yeah.
I love those characters.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Yeah, you're speaking as if this is happening. Are you're
breaking news right here? Okay, well we'll put it intah,
We're gonna manifest for you.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
I love that so much. The name of this show.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Is I've never said this before, and I love having
people come on who give a lot of interviews and
do a lot of press and get to talk about
the projects that fans love so much, but I also
love to learn a little bit more of the human
side of them. So I'm wondering, is there anything that
the two of you can think of today that you've
never said before that you want to share and that
question can mean whatever it means to you.
Speaker 5 (28:47):
Oh my gosh, I've never said before.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
You can take a minute time, I guess for me,
I've never said before. It's been really fun to be
out here with you, Alison, Like doing this press store
season three feels like such a kind of achievement, And
we've really been through the ringer on part stopper as
well as been so excited and passionate, and I think, like,
you know, you're really like my kind of creative partner
(29:11):
in this process, and it's it's so valuable just to
have that dialogue between us. Yes, it's really unusual, and
I've never said that before.
Speaker 5 (29:21):
Yeah, now I have so much pressure, Like I guess,
I've had such a positive experience of a book adaptation.
Speaker 4 (29:33):
I love the show so much. I'm so proud of it.
Speaker 5 (29:36):
I think it's one of the best experiences of book
adaptation I could hope for. But at the same time,
it has been really emotionally strenuous the entire time because
I care about the story so much. Anything that is
even slightly wrong feels like the world's ending in my mind.
(30:00):
So it's been so positive, but it's also the most
stressful thing I've ever ever done. And also it's taken
a lot of time for me to learn how to
work in such a big team because I worked on
my own my entire career until Heart Stopper, and suddenly
(30:24):
this story that means the world to me, I have
to trust other people to take care of it and
to use their own creativity to make something out of it.
And that was hard for me, Like that was really
a learning curve that I found really hard sometimes.
Speaker 4 (30:45):
But it's all worked out, so you know.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Well, and I think that's really cool you share that
because people see the success and the end product and
you know the glory of it all. But you are
a person that has a lot on your shoulders, and
of course that when something is this close.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
To your heart, you are going to worry.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
When you have other people that get involved, and not
worry in a negative way. You just want to make
sure it's handled with care. So I think that is
really an interesting perspective in going off of that. How
do you take care of yourself, because that's a lot
that you just described on your shoulders to take care
of you.
Speaker 5 (31:21):
I'm not the best at self care, I would say,
like trying to take a step away from it when
I can is really important. Not that I'm very good
at it, but you know, I've had I think I
did like a month off of social media last year,
(31:42):
and it truly felt like I was reworrying my brain
just not having access to everyone's thoughts and opinions about
Heart Stopper, which I love to read, Like I really
do love to read what people are enjoying and saying
about the show and about the comic, But just taking
that time away from that felt like I could breathe
(32:03):
a little bit for a while.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
We've had some We've had to have some like pretty
tough conversations about how there are often windows of time
where you have to move really quickly from a production
point of view, and what I've found quite challenging is
that puts so much pressure on you as the writer
because you write every script and you're also completely involved
in the pre production, the filming, and the editing and
(32:25):
all the post on the show. So sometimes I've been
in a position where it's like I have to go, hey,
if we want to film it at this point, which
oftentimes we have to because just the actors are growing up,
or there's whether windows, there's just really banal stuff actually,
and it ends up being like you've got to write
a script like a first draft and show it to
(32:45):
me like in about two point five seconds.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
Yeah, I feel oh, no, you know, And.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
That is the difficulty of behind the scenes making the TV.
Sometimes it's like it has I've been aware put you
in quite impossible positions a lot. Yeah, but yeah, we've
always come through and.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
We make it through.
Speaker 5 (33:04):
Yeah, Like the TV deadlines in terms of writing are
like nothing I've ever experienced. And I was an author
for a long time before I wrote for TV. But
you miss a deadline in TV, everyone's careers are like
messed up and you just can't. So it's been really
tough to have to work at that pace, I think.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Yeah, and sort of and kind of change the mindset
a little bit. In terms of like writing novels or
even the comic it's like it's a finished product that
you're putting out in the world and that's how you
want the audience to take it in and enjoy it.
Whereas the scripts are like they're like a blueprint for
coaction and it's like, we need to get the script
so the costume and the.
Speaker 5 (33:45):
Props and to give them my first draft, which like
as a writer, when I first had to do that,
I think it was season two where we just had
no time and you had to be like, the costume
designer needs the script, and I was like, I don't
want anyone to read my first draft, but I had
to because otherwise they don't have time to do all
(34:06):
the costumes. Like, yeah, so it's stressful.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Can I just say watching the two of you, I mean,
first of all, Heartstopper is a show to me that's
about family and forging these bonds that are just so
strong between friends and unconditionally being there for one another
through the ups and downs and everything in between. And
I feel like you have a partnership where that is
(34:31):
so true. And hearing how you were just speaking about
supporting Alice during these crazy tough times and how much
you need that support and receive it and want it
and trust Patrick to give that support is such a
beautiful thing to see because I really think that's one
of the many beautiful themes of the series. And I
don't know, I just can't stop smiling. It's just a
(34:55):
beautiful thing to witness in real life and with the
craziness of the world we live in. I love seeing
real moments between friends who are more like family like this,
and I don't know, I'm like getting a motion.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
It's it's really beautiful. It truly is.
Speaker 5 (35:07):
Yeah, that's it's so accurate, like we are a team,
us two and no matter what craziness is going on
in the production, like me and Patrick always have each
other's back, so and I feel like I would be
lost without that's.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Yeah, it's it's and it's so fun to do it
because even in the challenging moments, you're like, but we're
making a TV show we love and like, we're so
proud of all the actors performances, and getting to work
with amazing director and now exec producer on the thirties
and Eristlynn has also been a kind of real creative
partnership in that way, and now with Andy who's directed
(35:46):
season three, Like you do meet these people that you're
like yeah, this is great, but yeah, it's it's it's
we need that partnership, Beau. Otherwise it would just be.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Yeah, well, we're lucky for it. And something tells me,
aside from work, that two of you have some fun
on your downtime. I'd like to be a fly on
that one, because I feel like you're a fun bunch too.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Yes, I do.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
Well.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Before we head out, I want to give you the
mic for a moment to talk directly to the amazing
fans of heart Stopper who have been showing up and
showing out and giving support, especially for season three. What
would you like to say to them as we head out.
Speaker 5 (36:22):
Well, I really attribute the success of Heartstopper to the fans,
you know, the TV show specifically, because it gave heartstupp
At that boost at the start. It had such a passionate, supportive,
excited fan base, which at the time was much much
smaller than it is now, but it gave that show
its first lift, and I really think the show wouldn't
(36:43):
still be around today if it wasn't for that initial
group of fans who really pushed it. And they're still here, Like,
you know, the fans are still here and they're still
so excited, and I love to read all their analysis
of tiny moments in the show that most people probably
don't pick up on, but they care about those little moments.
(37:05):
And we've just been to a screening in Toronto which
was with fans of the show, and I love watching
it with fans because they care about every tiny little moment.
There's like cheering and laughter and like they see all
the tiny details that we've spent so much time putting
effort into. So yeah, thank you to everyone for that.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
Yeah, I mean, I just echo that, Like the trick
is also just just doing those screenings, like watching it
with fans, making sure you don't take for granted that
love because it's so constant, and that's just like blows
my mind. You can just go on any social media
platform and find really interesting analysis of what we've done
in the show versus how it wasn't a comic for example.
(37:49):
So yeah, it's that level of noise has, as Alice said,
made the show the success it is and it's been
life changing for all of us. So yeah, we're really grateful.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Yeah, well I think we are very grateful as well
for what you put out into the world. Heartstopper Season
three is out now. Everyone's stream it. Thank you both
so much for hanging out and for sharing your magic
with me today.
Speaker 4 (38:11):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
I've Never Said This Before is hosted by Me, Tommy Dedario.
This podcast is executive produced by Andrew Puglisi at iHeartRadio
and by me Tommy, with editing by Joshua Colaudney. I've
Never Said This Before is part of the Elvis Duran
podcast Network on iHeart Podcasts. For more, rate review and
subscribe to our show and if you liked this episode,
(38:37):
tell your friends. Until next time, I'm Tommy Dedario
Host
Tommy DiDario
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