October 17, 2023 • 34 mins
This week, Tommy is joined by Emmy-nominated actress (The Handmaids Tale) and singer/songwriter, Mckenna Grace. With over 70 impressive credits to her name like I Tonya, Captain Marvel, Ghostbusters Afterlife, and more, Mckenna has cemented her spot as a brilliant artist at just 17 years old. But today is all about a different kind of brilliance: her new 5-song EP, Autumn Leaves. Mckenna opens up about being a hopeless romantic, how she remains optimistic even after a big heartbreak, the importance of letting go, being inspired by Lana Del Rey and Taylor Swift, and learning to like herself.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey guys, welcome to I've never said this before with
me Tammy di Dario. Today's guest is the brilliant Emmy
nominated actress and singer songwriter McKenna Grace. You may know
McKenna from playing a younger version of Brie Larsen's Carol
Danvers in Captain Marvel, or maybe you saw her playing
the preteen version of Kieran and Shipka's Sabrina in Netflix's
(00:26):
Chilling Adventures of Sabrina. Or maybe even as a young
Tanya Harding in Itanya, which is personally one of my
favorite movies. So good, but get this. In twenty twenty one,
McKenna became one of the youngest ever actors in history
to receive an Emmy nomination recognizing her work as a
rebellious child bride in The Handmaid's Tale. And all of
(00:47):
this was accomplished before she turned seventeen. Yeah, she is
a total rock star. All right, Get your cozy sweaters,
your scarves, a big cup of hot tea light, your
pumpkins ice candle or okay, maybe twenty of them like me.
Because her brand new five song EP called Autumn Leaves
is out now and we are diving in. McKenna is
(01:12):
vulnerable and open and really raw with her lyrics, and
we get to see a different side to her aside
that I, for one, I just I found so very relatable.
She writes from her heart and it is on full display,
and she leaves you wanting more, like twenty songs more
because it is that good. So let's see if today
(01:35):
we can get McKenna to say something that she's never
said before. McKenna, Grace, it is so nice to see you.
How are you today? O great? How are you? I
am so good. I'm really good because you put me
in all the fall vibes with your new ep, Thank You.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
I'm trying.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Oh my god, it is so good. It's such a
perfect time of year for you to come out with this.
Of course, it's called Autumn Leaves. It's a five song
EP for everybody listening out now. It's ethereal yet it's powerful.
It's stripped down yet it's cinematic. The instrumentals are just incredible.
So describe the overall feeling and vibe of Autumn Leaves
(02:19):
for me?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Well, I don't know. I just really wanted to make it.
Thank you. That's such like a nice description. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
I just really wanted it to feel very I feel
like I'm moving into it.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Well, I don't feel like I know.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
I am moving into a different space with my music
versus kind of the pop punk EP that I first
came out with. And I think that I'm just wanting
to kind of represent not anymore because I did write
this a little bit of time ago, but where I
was as a person at the time, and I want
to move into feeling cinematic and floey and my producer
(02:54):
Cody will always get live strings on it, and I
think that it's so beautiful and and just I want
everything to feel really cinematic and like a story and
like something that you know. I want it to make
sense from start to finish, the EP, the story and
all the words and lyrics that I'm singing.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
So I don't know, I wanted it to feel really
fall and heartbreak.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Yeah, well it certainly does. So how would you describe
what you were going through in your life personally when
you wrote these songs, because it is a very very
personal look into who you are and what you've gone through.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
It definitely is.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
I mean, I wrote this about my first like actual heartbreak.
You know. It was the first time I ever felt
like I was in love, and now looking back, I'm like,
oh gosh, it was. It was pretty silly, And I
don't know. I'm the kind of person that holds onto
things for a long time. And I think that I
wrote this and a lot of other music I have
(03:51):
hopefully coming out at some point just kind of in
a place where I didn't get closure on the situation,
and I just felt like so sad and alone and
heartbroken for way too long, and so I don't know,
I just happened to channel it all into music.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Yeah. Well, I mean, heartbreak is definitely the major theme
throughout these these songs, but I would actually argue you
walk away with a positive message after listening. Is that
something that you think as well?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
A little bit.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
My main thing was I feel like I got all
of my like little AnGR or biting songs out of
my system whenever I released my last EP, and I
just felt really sad and I felt like I didn't
have really not that I ever want to say anything
bad about anyone, but anything like bad.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
To say about this person.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
I was just like, I'm just sad and I can't
say anything to you because you aren't responding. So I
just feel like I should put everything I feel into.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
This music, you know.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
And it's not it's negative emotions, but not negative exactly
towards you. It's just like, here's what you'll never say,
Here's how I'm feeling, and I know I have to
let go it. And it took me a while after
writing all of these songs to get that last song
of like I know that I have to let go.
All of this happened last fall and only kind of
(05:11):
later into the summer did I finally feel like, Okay,
I like really have got to.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Let go of this.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
It's silly and I've just far and so I finally did.
And it's just like it's nice to have that on there.
As you know, I might not have closure on everything,
but I can give myself my own like peace of
mind and closure and like you know what life goes on.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Yeah, and giving yourself your own peace of mind, I
think is the greatest gift. We've all been through experiences
where we want that closure and we don't necessarily always
get it, So to give it to yourself, I think
is one of the biggest gifts we can give right.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yeah. I mean, though I would love a little bit
of closure.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
You're like, well, I think it quite enough.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
But yeah, yeah, it was nice to finally be able
to write that.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Is there a song on this EP that was more
difficult than the rest for you to write?
Speaker 3 (06:09):
I don't know, probably midnight in London because that was
kind of like because I was writing it and I
was like, well, guys, I'm not over it, so I
don't want to say this, and They're like, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
But you have to be.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
And I'm like, okay, fine, God, I'll write this and
I'll say it and I know I have to let go,
but I don't want.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
To, you know.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's not easy to do. Is your
songwriting process super for anetic? Is it peaceful? Is it random?
Do you wake up at four? I am like, oh,
I have a thought. I mean, how do you put
together a body of work?
Speaker 3 (06:40):
I mean, it definitely depends. It really really depends. I
mean the other night, my dad and I just took
a trip and we went to rock slash Metal festival
over the weekend and we had gotten back and both
of us were so tired. But I was just laying
up like in bed in this hotel, like just writing
(07:02):
and writing, and my dad was like, can you go
to bed? We have to get up in the morning
and drive home. And I was like, no, I have
so many thoughts.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Like I can't go to bed.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
And I ended up getting to bed by like three,
And I have this really scrambled, big gold like paragraph
in my notes app at this point. But then other
times I like to write on paper and I use
a lot of pinterest. I think it really depends on
what it is that I'm writing about.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
And you're someone who likes to write about what you're going.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Through completely, I feel like I feel like it's I
can't write about something if it isn't how I'm feeling.
Because in my last ep, you know, I wrote about
heartbreak and breakups, but it was more just a way
because it was all entirely true to me, but saying
that it was a breakup of a relationship was easier
(07:49):
to convey in the music. But it was more of
like a breakup of a friendship, or maybe it was
a about a family member, maybe it was about this.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
But everything that.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
I'm feeling, I feel like I get annoying and songwriting
sessions sometimes because someone will suggest something and I'll be like,
I love that, and it's like such a good lyric,
but I feel like I can't sing that because that
didn't happen to me. And I don't want to be
lying about this situation that nobody will ever know who
this person is, nobody will ever know what this situation is.
But I feel like I'm like, I don't know. I
(08:18):
don't want to lie about them or about this, even
though it's not a lie, it's a lyric.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
It's like I don't know.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
It just doesn't feel right to me, and I feel
like I have to be as truthful as possible.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
But it is different.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Sometimes I write songs through a character's perspective or for
a film about the film or things like that, But
whenever I'm writing for my own personal stories, I always
get really specific in things that I reference or mention,
and it's just kind of things that only like I
would know, or only other people in that situation would know,
and it's just like, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
It just makes it extra like special listening back to it.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Well, I think that's the magic of your work is
it's so visual. And you know you mentioned Midnight in
London and I love that. I loved that song for
so many reasons, but I could really see every single
frame of that song like playing out like a movie,
and I thought it's I thought the message was incredible
as well, just about having to let go and the
(09:15):
importance of having to let go? Is that something throughout
your life that was a hard lesson for you to learn?
Speaker 2 (09:21):
I don't even think that I've learned that lesson.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Still like I wrote that song, but I still like
I'm the type of person it's I feel like I
really touched on it in my song November.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
I'm just the person I don't let go of things.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
I don't know I have like I'm looking at this
little trinket shelf in front of me. That is another
example that it's just like I see things and I
create emotional attachments to them, and then it's just like, oh, well,
now I can't watch this movie without thinking of a person,
and it's like, what can I do?
Speaker 2 (09:49):
You know, It's just like, I don't know, I just
hold on to things for way too long.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
I'm not great at letting things go, but I'm definitely
I'm trying.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
But you know what, I don't know if it's a
bad thing to be able to let certain things go.
I'm the same way. I attach such emotional meaning to
so many things, like stupid things. I'll have something on
a shelf for like ten years, and my husband will
be like, do you really need that? And I'm like, yes,
because in nineteen ninety eight and one day I had
lunch with somebody who gave it to me. Like it's
so crazy the things I attach meaning to, But I
(10:20):
don't know if it's always a bad thing.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
I think that it's important to let go of things
that are not healthy to you anymore. But to me,
everything that I've experienced with a person or just in
my life is important and it carries some sort of
meaning or value. And I've like, even if I don't
talk to a person anymore, or even if they like
really hurt me or I don't like them, or even
(10:44):
if everything ended happily, but I can't let go of it.
I still think that it's important to not have regrets
about things that hurt you, because it's just like it
happened and you.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Learned a lesson and it made me who I am.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Like there's so many things in my life that I
feel like I would regret if I wasn't a songwriter
and I did not see how it changed the way
I write, or how it changed the way that I think,
or how it changed the way that I like interact
with the world around me. I just think that it's
important to hold on to little things at least.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
When you brought up November earlier, there was a line
in that song that I was just heartbroken hearing because
I feel like, again, it's so relatable, and that line
was I'm so tired of being patient, always waiting for
something that never lasts. What were you going through when
(11:38):
you wrote that?
Speaker 2 (11:40):
I mean, that's just me.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
I'm very, very very much a hopeless romantic, but like
everything anything, everything romantically is very important to me. Like
I don't take it lightly, even as silly as going
on a day or kissing someone, Like to me, it's
still like a big deal. It's like, oh my god,
that's like massive to me.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
It's just like I love love so so much, and
I so badly want to be in love, but I
also never want to rush it. But I'm like, oh,
but when am I gonna fall in love? But I
need to wait. But if something comes along, like I
wouldn't be opposed to it, but also it might not
be you know, like I'm just.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Always all over the place.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
I'm always like I can't wait to fall in love someday,
but then it feels like I don't know, it's like
it never lasts and I'm just so sad. And then
I feel like the line either before or after that
is like telling myself, this too shall pass. And that's
what my mom always says to me. That's like, that's
my mom thing, is that my mom's always like.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
This too shall pass, like you'll makeet through this and
X y Z and so it's just like a little
personal motto.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
So you were totally a hopeless romantic.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Completely.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
It's so bad that, like completely, and it ties into
me like always holding on the little like silly things
I I don't I love love.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
I love love.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Listen, there are worse things to love. So I'm a
hopeless romantic too. I love it. I'm the guy that's
like watching a cheesy rom com crying his eyes out
because it's so beautiful.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
I never thought of myself as somebody who like cried
in movies or anything like that until I just recently
started watching a bunch of rom coms and I'm like, wow,
I'm a baby.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Yeah, I'm the same way. Do you have a favorite
rom com? Hmm?
Speaker 3 (13:29):
I just watched How to Lose a Guy in ten
Days Classics.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
I just watched that. That was really that was really funny.
I thought that it was sweet.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Have you watched The Holiday Holiday as Kate.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Winslet No, no, no, I haven't.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Okay, one of my all time favorites for everyone listening
pop in the Holiday? It will make you cry and
feel all the feels.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Okay, okay, I'll put it on my watch list.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Yeah you must so you know. Yes, there's a lot
of heartbreaking your songs. But I imagine that you have
to stay optimistic to be able to keep the hope alive,
to be able to want that love one day, to
still believe in it. Right, So how do you stay
optimistic when you do experience such heartbreak?
Speaker 2 (14:15):
I don't know. This is too shall pass. I just like.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
I have a firm belief that all that is meant
to be like what happened, I am putting it in
God and.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
The Universe's hands. You know, I.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Know that there's someone out there for me romantically, keeping
hope alive. I just know that someday, I don't know
how I know, but I'm just like, someday, I know
that it'll happen. I don't know when it'll be who
it'll be, and I hate having to sit around and wait,
but like, I don't know, there's some sort of plan
out there in the universe for something, and I feel
(14:54):
like I don't know. My fate is just like in
the universes and in God's hands, so there's nothing I
can do about it. I just have to wait and
see what happens, and until then I can write all
of my silly, little sad songs.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yes, and having that belief is so important. I think
that listen, life is a crazy, messy, windy ride and
we never know what's going to happen. And I think
that as long as you go through it knowing what
you want, knowing what you don't want, what you're willing
to not sacrifice on right and waiting for the right
thing is so important. And we have to go through
(15:26):
our heartbreaks and our messes to get to the crown jewels.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
I like to say, yeah, it makes you who you are,
and I mean without all of the heartbreak, and all
of the messy things in life, you know, like how
are you ever going to learn what you want or
who you are or you know what you don't like
like or what you do like or all the things.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
I mean everything.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
It's like I said earlier, everything is just like a
learning experience and I don't know everything's important.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
And it's just like, yeah, and you just nailed it.
Was I was in something in my young twenties that
was so wrong for me for a million reasons. Thank
god I went through that because now I know what
it is that works for me and that I wanted
and you know, I'm happily married and all the things.
So yes, you have to go through your journey, and
it's all, it's all a part of it. I So
(16:14):
I felt so many different inspirations through your music through listening,
and I'm curious to hear from you. Who are your
biggest musical inspirations right now?
Speaker 3 (16:23):
Lana Delray, I have like on my wall over here,
I have like a bunch of pictures of her.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
I love Lana Delray. I don't know. I think that
she's so brilliant in the way that.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
She like is so old Hollywood and cool, but it's
like in a weird, darker modern way, which I think
is so rad because I don't know, Like I said,
I want to stay cinematic and very like old Hollywood
is my favorite type of vibe, and so I don't
know that's right now.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
But at the time of writing this EP, because.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
It always jumps all over the place, it went from
like Letigra and Green Day and Nirvana.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
To uh at the time, it was honestly just so
many heartbreak songs.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
I have like a whole, whole long long playlist here
it is, okay. I was listening to a lot of Miski,
I was listening to a lot of Mac DeMarco and
Taylor Swift and Lord, a lot of all of your
ego of course, and surprising I love the Lala Lamb soundtrack.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Oh it's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
I think that that really like ties into wanting to
feel cinematic in your music.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Yeah, one hundred percent. And it's funny you brought up
Lana because she came into mind right away, and and
Taylor came to mind too.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Yeah, So thank you.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Yeah for real, I just I And I'm such a
fan of our work. I think you are part of
that that tribe now and releasing such moving and beautiful
and you keep saying the word cinematic, and I know
that's so important to you, and I truly feel like
that's what you came out with. So it's really cool, Like,
I are we gonna get some some music videos possibly?
Speaker 2 (18:10):
I mean, that's nice.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
I have a lot of them written and I may
or may not be doing something this week, but who knows.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Who knows?
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Fantastic because I mean, we've got to see this come
to life. It's it's made for a music video, so
we will eagerly await that may or may not happening.
We'll see what will happen. But it's evident you love music,
right and you also love acting. I know there's over
seventy credits to your name, but songwriting and music is
such a different thing, I imagine for you. So what
(18:49):
is it about music that fulfills you in a different
way than acting?
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Acting?
Speaker 3 (18:55):
To me is such it's really fulfilling, like playing a
deep character or getting to film emotional scenes or doing
something deep like that, or just playing any characters really fulfilling,
like as an actress, and I love acting so much,
But then music is fulfilling in like a deeper personal way.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Music's music is my very public therapy, you know. It's
just like I sit and I write, and I write,
and I write all of the time now, and I
can't stop because it's just my way to get all
of my emotions out and whether I put it out
there or not, you know, Like there's dozens of songs
that I've written just because it like benefited my own
(19:39):
mental health to just like write those things down and
say them out loud in the form of song, I suppose.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
So it's just it's fulfilling in a different way.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
And it's nice to be able to share my own
stories as much as I love telling everybody else's and
getting to dive into different people.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
It's I don't know.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
I've been acting. I'm seven, and then I've been acting
for twelve years, so that's like a lot of my life.
And so I've been pretending to be other people and
learning how to like be younger versions of someone, or
how to play a different character, or like spending all
night trying to figure out how to play a real
life person. And now I'm like figuring out who I
(20:21):
am and so my songs, I feel like the mood
of the music is always all over the place, but
it's because I am too.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
I'm finally just like growing into myself and figuring out like, Okay,
I have my own personality. I'm my own person like
who is that? And so I've been really figuring it
out and music has really.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Been helping that.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Is being a singer songwriter easier or harder than playing
a character?
Speaker 3 (20:49):
I'd say it's it's probably easier because I'm a really
emotional person. And I probably get that because I have
to be so open with my emotions and acting.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
But I'm just a.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Very deeply emotional person and so it's very easy for
me to just like spill my guts all the time
whenever songwriting. But I'd say like whenever it comes to performing,
doing a live performance is way scarier because you only
have one shot.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Oh interesting, interesting, Even scarier than a camera like in
your face.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
Yeah, because at least with like the camera in my face,
I have like thirty takes to do it. But I mean,
I don't know, there's just something about being on stage
and whenever you're acting, you know, of course there's a
crew around you and whatnot. But there's just something different
about looking out at everybody and they're watching you, like
(21:42):
in that moment, and they're watching what you're doing, and
you have like one chance to do it, and you're like, well,
pure goes nothing, and it's just so scary, but it's
really fun.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Well that makes total sense. It's amazing that you can
do it all in all different avenues of creativity. Going
back to the EP for a minute. Autumn. Why Autumn? Autumn?
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Oh? I love fall, Like I'm feeling so fall right now.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
I have like my best cup of tea, I have
my little like brown sweater on, I have like last
night I had like two different fall candles.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Going and two different corners of my room. I love fall.
It's my favorite season. I don't even know what else
to say. It's just perfect whenever it starts getting just
a little bit chilly and all the leaves turn, and.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Then you can start wearing sweaters without feeling like ashamed
of yourself because I just love sweaters so much, and
I'll wear them during the summer, but then.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
It's too hot and I'm dying. But I'm like, God,
but this is my favorite sweater.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
And it looks so good and so like I don't know,
breaking out the tea, Halloween, scary movies all month, and
then it's just it's also such a nice time for
anything romantic, and I don't know, there's always the worst
heartbreaking fall too.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
I find I'm with you, and I don't want to
make this about me, but I did happen to wear
my burgundy in your honor today in my Fall theme
for you, so I love it.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
I'm in my Fall theme for.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
You or Fall Twins. I love that. I'm a New
York City boy. I'm in New York right now. I'm
from the East Coast, so we really get fall.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
I love New York.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
I write about it all the time in my EP
and album I Love New York.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Yeah, it's a special city. Something else that came to
mind when I was listening to this, You know, you're
writing about people essentially or somebody. Do you ever worry
about putting out your personal life and how that person
is going to view what you're saying? Like is there
a line you won't cross? Are you cognizant to change
(23:38):
certain things? Like? How is that process when there is
somebody else involved? As a songwriter.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
It's terrifying because I get so specific and I'm saying
things that you know, like only I and this other
person will know. It's scary because I'm like, oh my god,
everybody's going to know who I wrote this about. Everybody's
going to know this, but it's like nobody's going to know.
It's just like it's nobody's gonna no except for us.
And so I was. I was frustrated in my last EP,
(24:08):
and I wrote a lot of things that weren't the nicest.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
And so I did have some phone calls.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Uh. You know, I just feel like, man, I still
have a phone call to make in regards to this EP,
and I'm not looking forward to it. But I feel
like it's important. Even though I feel like I'm not
saying anything wrong or bad, I'm just saying how I
felt and putting my emotions out there. I feel like
it's only fair just to be like, hey, by the way,
(24:38):
I wrote a lot of music, but it's also because
you broke my heart.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
But I wrote a lot of music and I'm putting
it out there.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
And luckily, like from my last EP, you know, those
phone calls actually came a lot of good and now
this person that I was so upset with for so
long and who like I was like, felt like really
hurt me or rogby you know, now we're like tight
and friends again and it's just like amazing, and I'm
like great, well, and now they make jokes all the
time about remember whenever you wrote that song about me,
(25:07):
and I'm like, yeah, if you like are mean again,
then I'll write more. But actually a really funny story
is that while I was recording what You'll Never Say,
like singing myself the apology that I never received, I
got my first phone call from this person in over
(25:31):
like eight months, and I actually like have the take
of me like like a cold, dirty out of nowhere.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
And so I was, I was singing this song and
I have the take of me going, oh my god,
so and so is calling me.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
And then like my producer, who like has been there
through everything through whenever I was writing this Autumn Leaves
Love song to now finishing this heartbreak.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Epee uh you know, and we freaked out.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
And then I kind of got the apology like semi
that semi that I never received, and it was like
crazy and I was like, that's such an insane story
to have now is that I'm singing myself the apology
I never received, and then all of a sudden I kind.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Of got it.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
And so it was just like so strange, and it
just like goes to show the universe works so weird,
Like I as soon as I finished this project, now
it's like, I don't know. Everything's kind of like nice again,
and it's just like, I don't know, it's strange to
see how everything works.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Yeah, and my heart break out of my system well.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Right, and music's healing. I mean, that's why I think
it's such an important art form that we all need
to have. And I'm such an avid music listener and
I don't know what I would do without music, And
that's why it's one of the most important things in
the world. To you. What makes music so important?
Speaker 3 (26:52):
I just connect so deeply, like emotionally with music, and it,
whether I'm writing it or listening to it, helps me
process my emotion and it can even whenever I'm acting,
you know, it can really transport me to a place
of very deep like emotions or sadness or anything. Like
I listen to music constantly whenever I'm playing a character
(27:12):
to get me into that headspace or that world, especially.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
With emotional scenes.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
But I don't know, finding a song that's like that
is exactly how I feel. I'll listen to it until
I can't anymore, you know, I don't know. I just
think that there's something also so special about music and
getting to see it live is so cool. Like I said,
over the weekend, I was with my dad at this
rock festival, which is so different than anything in regards
(27:40):
to this EP, but like just getting to see everybody
like jump around together and like feel that emotion and
that vibe and everybody's so excited and hyped together.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Like, I don't know, it's.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
So cool that just some people on stage with these
silly little like stringed instruments can make people feel that
and connect people in a way that they never would
have connected before.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Yeah, it creates that sense of community, which I think
we all need more than ever, which is again one
of the brilliant things about music. When I look at
you right now, you seem so light, you seem so excited,
You seem like you did go through a lot of
tough things that you wrote about, but you came out
on the other side. So McKenna I'm curious to know
(28:27):
if you could fill in this blank what you would say.
I am at a point in my life.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Where I'm at a point in my life where I'm
you know what.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
I'm at a point in my life where I'm starting
to like like myself, which is nice.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
It's a really nice feeling.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
I for so long, like I don't know, not to
get all like sad or deever weird.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Oh please, so long, I just like, I don't.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Know, I didn't like myself for so long, like I
felt like there was something so like deeply wrong with me.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
And now I'm like sitting here and I'm like, WHOA.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
I think I was just like a really like sad
teenager for a little bit, and now I'm like, I
turned seventeen, and I've been really working on improving myself
and my body and my mental health.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
And then I just like cleaned up my room and
made it really.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
Like light and cleaner and less clottered, and I'm just
trying to, like, I don't know, breathe, and I'm just like,
I don't know, I'm starting to get to like a
positive place with myself, which I think is really nice
because I'm like, oh, hey, I'm like, I'm feeling myself
lately and it's really nice.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
I'm just like, oh, I don't know, it's nice.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Good for you, Good for you. That self work is
something that I think we should never stop striving for.
And I love that you're at a place at seventeen
where you're starting to realize the importance of that and
taking time to allow yourself to grow in all those
different ways that you just talked about. I think that's
a really honest and cool answer. I usually wrap up
my show by asking all of my guests, what is
(30:14):
one thing that they've never said before? But I feel
like that maybe is something you really haven't talked about before.
Is that right?
Speaker 2 (30:20):
I think so.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
I think a lot of right now, like this entire
interview and just kind of with this EP in general,
I'm talking about, you know, things I've never talked about
it publicly, Like I don't know. As much as I
write about it, I don't I don't really talk about
my breakups or break up I'm singular, I don't really
(30:42):
talk about like I don't know, I could feel so weird,
like talking about my personal life or like my emotions
or like I don't know, but yeah, especially that, because
I feel like it's just been such a thing for
me for such a long time. And you know, I
have like a few songs out there about feeling into
here in myself, but I always, I always felt so
(31:03):
strange releasing something like that because I felt like I
didn't have like a moral of the story, or I
wasn't on the other side of it, and so I
felt like it wasn't fair for me to put something
out there that's like negative about myself but not know
like how to resolve that or how to fix it.
I go through things in life, but that's not who
I am, you know. And now I'm starting to finally
(31:23):
realize that, because it's easy to say, like I'm just
a sad person and that's who I am, and I
just don't like myself or.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
I'm just this. But it's like I'm always, throughout my
life going to go through moments where where.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
I probably hate myself or where I probably hate this,
or where I hate this or that, or where I'm
deeply sad or depressed.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
But that's not gonna last forever. That's not who I am.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
It's not something that will actively take over my life,
like it's just bumps and phases along the road, and
then the rest of life is going to be life,
and whatever happens happens, and I'm gonna have so many
more adventures and I'm gonna.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Have ups and downs, but it just like it comes
and goes.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
And I think that it's nice to like I'm in
like a more positive area of that ride right now
and I'm happy about it. Well.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
And that's what I loved about this conversation today and
about your EP is You're normalizing feeling all the emotions,
and I think that's so important. You know, one of
the most irritating questions to me that I get asked
or someone else might get asked, is, oh, you seem
really sad today. It's so unlike you Are you okay?
It's like, I'm allowed to be sad. I do have
a sad side as well, like I'm not always going
(32:31):
to be happy. And I think that you talking about
this and showing people that it's okay to feel what
you feel and then pull out of it and carry
on and not let it define you is such an
important message. And I hope you realize that through being
your honest self and through writing your truth you are
helping a lot of people feel seen.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
I hope so.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
And I mean I'm saying this right now as if
I wasn't like crying in the shower last night to
Phoebe Bridgers, like I was so sad yesterday.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
But now I'm just like, oh, I'm feeling good right now.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
So it's like it's all over the place all the time,
and I think that it's healthy and normal to feel that.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
But thank you. I try.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Yeah, yeah, it's a great message to put out there.
Autumn Leaves is out now. How can people stream download
all the things?
Speaker 3 (33:16):
All the things I don't know McKenna grace on like Spotify,
rable music, ramas on music or any of the things.
I have music videos on YouTube that I write myself
then I co direct them.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
So all the things, all the things. Well, congratulations on
this amazing ep. You heard it from Mechenna. Grab your fuzziest,
coziest blanket and a cup of tea and light some
pumpkin candles and I don't know, throw leaves around your
room and listen.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
To this right absolutely yeah, the leaf throwing bit is
really important.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Just bring a vacuum, crucial, absolutely crucial. Thank you so much. Congratulations.
I look forward to hearing more from you when the
next round of inspiration hits.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Thank you, it's already coming. There's too much good.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Well, thank you, thank you, thank you, and happy fall. Congratulations,
thank you, Happy ball. I've never said this before. It
is hosted by me, Tommy de Dario. This podcast is
executive produced by Andrew Puglisi at iHeartRadio and by me, Tommy,
I've Never Said this before. It's part of the Elvis
(34:21):
de Ram podcast network on iHeart Podcasts. For more, rate
review and subscribe to our show and if you liked
the episode, tell your friends until next time. I'm Tommy
de Dario and I hope this show encourages you to
say something that you've never said before.
Hey guys, welcome to I've never said this before with
me Tammy di Dario. Today's guest is the brilliant Emmy
nominated actress and singer songwriter McKenna Grace. You may know
McKenna from playing a younger version of Brie Larsen's Carol
Danvers in Captain Marvel, or maybe you saw her playing
the preteen version of Kieran and Shipka's Sabrina in Netflix's
(00:26):
Chilling Adventures of Sabrina. Or maybe even as a young
Tanya Harding in Itanya, which is personally one of my
favorite movies. So good, but get this. In twenty twenty one,
McKenna became one of the youngest ever actors in history
to receive an Emmy nomination recognizing her work as a
rebellious child bride in The Handmaid's Tale. And all of
(00:47):
this was accomplished before she turned seventeen. Yeah, she is
a total rock star. All right, Get your cozy sweaters,
your scarves, a big cup of hot tea light, your
pumpkins ice candle or okay, maybe twenty of them like me.
Because her brand new five song EP called Autumn Leaves
is out now and we are diving in. McKenna is
(01:12):
vulnerable and open and really raw with her lyrics, and
we get to see a different side to her aside
that I, for one, I just I found so very relatable.
She writes from her heart and it is on full display,
and she leaves you wanting more, like twenty songs more
because it is that good. So let's see if today
(01:35):
we can get McKenna to say something that she's never
said before. McKenna, Grace, it is so nice to see you.
How are you today? O great? How are you? I
am so good. I'm really good because you put me
in all the fall vibes with your new ep, Thank You.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
I'm trying.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Oh my god, it is so good. It's such a
perfect time of year for you to come out with this.
Of course, it's called Autumn Leaves. It's a five song
EP for everybody listening out now. It's ethereal yet it's powerful.
It's stripped down yet it's cinematic. The instrumentals are just incredible.
So describe the overall feeling and vibe of Autumn Leaves
(02:19):
for me?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Well, I don't know. I just really wanted to make it.
Thank you. That's such like a nice description. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
I just really wanted it to feel very I feel
like I'm moving into it.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Well, I don't feel like I know.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
I am moving into a different space with my music
versus kind of the pop punk EP that I first
came out with. And I think that I'm just wanting
to kind of represent not anymore because I did write
this a little bit of time ago, but where I
was as a person at the time, and I want
to move into feeling cinematic and floey and my producer
(02:54):
Cody will always get live strings on it, and I
think that it's so beautiful and and just I want
everything to feel really cinematic and like a story and
like something that you know. I want it to make
sense from start to finish, the EP, the story and
all the words and lyrics that I'm singing.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
So I don't know, I wanted it to feel really
fall and heartbreak.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Yeah, well it certainly does. So how would you describe
what you were going through in your life personally when
you wrote these songs, because it is a very very
personal look into who you are and what you've gone through.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
It definitely is.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
I mean, I wrote this about my first like actual heartbreak.
You know. It was the first time I ever felt
like I was in love, and now looking back, I'm like,
oh gosh, it was. It was pretty silly, And I
don't know. I'm the kind of person that holds onto
things for a long time. And I think that I
wrote this and a lot of other music I have
(03:51):
hopefully coming out at some point just kind of in
a place where I didn't get closure on the situation,
and I just felt like so sad and alone and
heartbroken for way too long, and so I don't know,
I just happened to channel it all into music.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Yeah. Well, I mean, heartbreak is definitely the major theme
throughout these these songs, but I would actually argue you
walk away with a positive message after listening. Is that
something that you think as well?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
A little bit.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
My main thing was I feel like I got all
of my like little AnGR or biting songs out of
my system whenever I released my last EP, and I
just felt really sad and I felt like I didn't
have really not that I ever want to say anything
bad about anyone, but anything like bad.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
To say about this person.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
I was just like, I'm just sad and I can't
say anything to you because you aren't responding. So I
just feel like I should put everything I feel into.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
This music, you know.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
And it's not it's negative emotions, but not negative exactly
towards you. It's just like, here's what you'll never say,
Here's how I'm feeling, and I know I have to
let go it. And it took me a while after
writing all of these songs to get that last song
of like I know that I have to let go.
All of this happened last fall and only kind of
(05:11):
later into the summer did I finally feel like, Okay,
I like really have got to.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Let go of this.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
It's silly and I've just far and so I finally did.
And it's just like it's nice to have that on there.
As you know, I might not have closure on everything,
but I can give myself my own like peace of
mind and closure and like you know what life goes on.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Yeah, and giving yourself your own peace of mind, I
think is the greatest gift. We've all been through experiences
where we want that closure and we don't necessarily always
get it, So to give it to yourself, I think
is one of the biggest gifts we can give right.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yeah. I mean, though I would love a little bit
of closure.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
You're like, well, I think it quite enough.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
But yeah, yeah, it was nice to finally be able
to write that.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Is there a song on this EP that was more
difficult than the rest for you to write?
Speaker 3 (06:09):
I don't know, probably midnight in London because that was
kind of like because I was writing it and I
was like, well, guys, I'm not over it, so I
don't want to say this, and They're like, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
But you have to be.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
And I'm like, okay, fine, God, I'll write this and
I'll say it and I know I have to let go,
but I don't want.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
To, you know.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's not easy to do. Is your
songwriting process super for anetic? Is it peaceful? Is it random?
Do you wake up at four? I am like, oh,
I have a thought. I mean, how do you put
together a body of work?
Speaker 3 (06:40):
I mean, it definitely depends. It really really depends. I
mean the other night, my dad and I just took
a trip and we went to rock slash Metal festival
over the weekend and we had gotten back and both
of us were so tired. But I was just laying
up like in bed in this hotel, like just writing
(07:02):
and writing, and my dad was like, can you go
to bed? We have to get up in the morning
and drive home. And I was like, no, I have
so many thoughts.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Like I can't go to bed.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
And I ended up getting to bed by like three,
And I have this really scrambled, big gold like paragraph
in my notes app at this point. But then other
times I like to write on paper and I use
a lot of pinterest. I think it really depends on
what it is that I'm writing about.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
And you're someone who likes to write about what you're going.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Through completely, I feel like I feel like it's I
can't write about something if it isn't how I'm feeling.
Because in my last ep, you know, I wrote about
heartbreak and breakups, but it was more just a way
because it was all entirely true to me, but saying
that it was a breakup of a relationship was easier
(07:49):
to convey in the music. But it was more of
like a breakup of a friendship, or maybe it was
a about a family member, maybe it was about this.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
But everything that.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
I'm feeling, I feel like I get annoying and songwriting
sessions sometimes because someone will suggest something and I'll be like,
I love that, and it's like such a good lyric,
but I feel like I can't sing that because that
didn't happen to me. And I don't want to be
lying about this situation that nobody will ever know who
this person is, nobody will ever know what this situation is.
But I feel like I'm like, I don't know. I
(08:18):
don't want to lie about them or about this, even
though it's not a lie, it's a lyric.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
It's like I don't know.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
It just doesn't feel right to me, and I feel
like I have to be as truthful as possible.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
But it is different.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Sometimes I write songs through a character's perspective or for
a film about the film or things like that, But
whenever I'm writing for my own personal stories, I always
get really specific in things that I reference or mention,
and it's just kind of things that only like I
would know, or only other people in that situation would know,
and it's just like, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
It just makes it extra like special listening back to it.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Well, I think that's the magic of your work is
it's so visual. And you know you mentioned Midnight in
London and I love that. I loved that song for
so many reasons, but I could really see every single
frame of that song like playing out like a movie,
and I thought it's I thought the message was incredible
as well, just about having to let go and the
(09:15):
importance of having to let go? Is that something throughout
your life that was a hard lesson for you to learn?
Speaker 2 (09:21):
I don't even think that I've learned that lesson.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Still like I wrote that song, but I still like
I'm the type of person it's I feel like I
really touched on it in my song November.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
I'm just the person I don't let go of things.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
I don't know I have like I'm looking at this
little trinket shelf in front of me. That is another
example that it's just like I see things and I
create emotional attachments to them, and then it's just like, oh, well,
now I can't watch this movie without thinking of a person,
and it's like, what can I do?
Speaker 2 (09:49):
You know, It's just like, I don't know, I just
hold on to things for way too long.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
I'm not great at letting things go, but I'm definitely
I'm trying.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
But you know what, I don't know if it's a
bad thing to be able to let certain things go.
I'm the same way. I attach such emotional meaning to
so many things, like stupid things. I'll have something on
a shelf for like ten years, and my husband will
be like, do you really need that? And I'm like, yes,
because in nineteen ninety eight and one day I had
lunch with somebody who gave it to me. Like it's
so crazy the things I attach meaning to, But I
(10:20):
don't know if it's always a bad thing.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
I think that it's important to let go of things
that are not healthy to you anymore. But to me,
everything that I've experienced with a person or just in
my life is important and it carries some sort of
meaning or value. And I've like, even if I don't
talk to a person anymore, or even if they like
really hurt me or I don't like them, or even
(10:44):
if everything ended happily, but I can't let go of it.
I still think that it's important to not have regrets
about things that hurt you, because it's just like it
happened and you.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Learned a lesson and it made me who I am.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Like there's so many things in my life that I
feel like I would regret if I wasn't a songwriter
and I did not see how it changed the way
I write, or how it changed the way that I think,
or how it changed the way that I like interact
with the world around me. I just think that it's
important to hold on to little things at least.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
When you brought up November earlier, there was a line
in that song that I was just heartbroken hearing because
I feel like, again, it's so relatable, and that line
was I'm so tired of being patient, always waiting for
something that never lasts. What were you going through when
(11:38):
you wrote that?
Speaker 2 (11:40):
I mean, that's just me.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
I'm very, very very much a hopeless romantic, but like
everything anything, everything romantically is very important to me. Like
I don't take it lightly, even as silly as going
on a day or kissing someone, Like to me, it's
still like a big deal. It's like, oh my god,
that's like massive to me.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
It's just like I love love so so much, and
I so badly want to be in love, but I
also never want to rush it. But I'm like, oh,
but when am I gonna fall in love? But I
need to wait. But if something comes along, like I
wouldn't be opposed to it, but also it might not
be you know, like I'm just.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Always all over the place.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
I'm always like I can't wait to fall in love someday,
but then it feels like I don't know, it's like
it never lasts and I'm just so sad. And then
I feel like the line either before or after that
is like telling myself, this too shall pass. And that's
what my mom always says to me. That's like, that's
my mom thing, is that my mom's always like.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
This too shall pass, like you'll makeet through this and
X y Z and so it's just like a little
personal motto.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
So you were totally a hopeless romantic.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Completely.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
It's so bad that, like completely, and it ties into
me like always holding on the little like silly things
I I don't I love love.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
I love love.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Listen, there are worse things to love. So I'm a
hopeless romantic too. I love it. I'm the guy that's
like watching a cheesy rom com crying his eyes out
because it's so beautiful.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
I never thought of myself as somebody who like cried
in movies or anything like that until I just recently
started watching a bunch of rom coms and I'm like, wow,
I'm a baby.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Yeah, I'm the same way. Do you have a favorite
rom com? Hmm?
Speaker 3 (13:29):
I just watched How to Lose a Guy in ten
Days Classics.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
I just watched that. That was really that was really funny.
I thought that it was sweet.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Have you watched The Holiday Holiday as Kate.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Winslet No, no, no, I haven't.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Okay, one of my all time favorites for everyone listening
pop in the Holiday? It will make you cry and
feel all the feels.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Okay, okay, I'll put it on my watch list.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Yeah you must so you know. Yes, there's a lot
of heartbreaking your songs. But I imagine that you have
to stay optimistic to be able to keep the hope alive,
to be able to want that love one day, to
still believe in it. Right, So how do you stay
optimistic when you do experience such heartbreak?
Speaker 2 (14:15):
I don't know. This is too shall pass. I just like.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
I have a firm belief that all that is meant
to be like what happened, I am putting it in
God and.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
The Universe's hands. You know, I.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Know that there's someone out there for me romantically, keeping
hope alive. I just know that someday, I don't know
how I know, but I'm just like, someday, I know
that it'll happen. I don't know when it'll be who
it'll be, and I hate having to sit around and wait,
but like, I don't know, there's some sort of plan
out there in the universe for something, and I feel
(14:54):
like I don't know. My fate is just like in
the universes and in God's hands, so there's nothing I
can do about it. I just have to wait and
see what happens, and until then I can write all
of my silly, little sad songs.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yes, and having that belief is so important. I think
that listen, life is a crazy, messy, windy ride and
we never know what's going to happen. And I think
that as long as you go through it knowing what
you want, knowing what you don't want, what you're willing
to not sacrifice on right and waiting for the right
thing is so important. And we have to go through
(15:26):
our heartbreaks and our messes to get to the crown jewels.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
I like to say, yeah, it makes you who you are,
and I mean without all of the heartbreak, and all
of the messy things in life, you know, like how
are you ever going to learn what you want or
who you are or you know what you don't like
like or what you do like or all the things.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
I mean everything.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
It's like I said earlier, everything is just like a
learning experience and I don't know everything's important.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
And it's just like, yeah, and you just nailed it.
Was I was in something in my young twenties that
was so wrong for me for a million reasons. Thank
god I went through that because now I know what
it is that works for me and that I wanted
and you know, I'm happily married and all the things.
So yes, you have to go through your journey, and
it's all, it's all a part of it. I So
(16:14):
I felt so many different inspirations through your music through listening,
and I'm curious to hear from you. Who are your
biggest musical inspirations right now?
Speaker 3 (16:23):
Lana Delray, I have like on my wall over here,
I have like a bunch of pictures of her.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
I love Lana Delray. I don't know. I think that
she's so brilliant in the way that.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
She like is so old Hollywood and cool, but it's
like in a weird, darker modern way, which I think
is so rad because I don't know, Like I said,
I want to stay cinematic and very like old Hollywood
is my favorite type of vibe, and so I don't
know that's right now.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
But at the time of writing this EP, because.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
It always jumps all over the place, it went from
like Letigra and Green Day and Nirvana.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
To uh at the time, it was honestly just so
many heartbreak songs.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
I have like a whole, whole long long playlist here
it is, okay. I was listening to a lot of Miski,
I was listening to a lot of Mac DeMarco and
Taylor Swift and Lord, a lot of all of your
ego of course, and surprising I love the Lala Lamb soundtrack.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Oh it's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
I think that that really like ties into wanting to
feel cinematic in your music.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Yeah, one hundred percent. And it's funny you brought up
Lana because she came into mind right away, and and
Taylor came to mind too.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Yeah, So thank you.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Yeah for real, I just I And I'm such a
fan of our work. I think you are part of
that that tribe now and releasing such moving and beautiful
and you keep saying the word cinematic, and I know
that's so important to you, and I truly feel like
that's what you came out with. So it's really cool, Like,
I are we gonna get some some music videos possibly?
Speaker 2 (18:10):
I mean, that's nice.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
I have a lot of them written and I may
or may not be doing something this week, but who knows.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Who knows?
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Fantastic because I mean, we've got to see this come
to life. It's it's made for a music video, so
we will eagerly await that may or may not happening.
We'll see what will happen. But it's evident you love music,
right and you also love acting. I know there's over
seventy credits to your name, but songwriting and music is
such a different thing, I imagine for you. So what
(18:49):
is it about music that fulfills you in a different
way than acting?
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Acting?
Speaker 3 (18:55):
To me is such it's really fulfilling, like playing a
deep character or getting to film emotional scenes or doing
something deep like that, or just playing any characters really fulfilling,
like as an actress, and I love acting so much,
But then music is fulfilling in like a deeper personal way.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Music's music is my very public therapy, you know. It's
just like I sit and I write, and I write,
and I write all of the time now, and I
can't stop because it's just my way to get all
of my emotions out and whether I put it out
there or not, you know, Like there's dozens of songs
that I've written just because it like benefited my own
(19:39):
mental health to just like write those things down and
say them out loud in the form of song, I suppose.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
So it's just it's fulfilling in a different way.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
And it's nice to be able to share my own
stories as much as I love telling everybody else's and
getting to dive into different people.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
It's I don't know.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
I've been acting. I'm seven, and then I've been acting
for twelve years, so that's like a lot of my life.
And so I've been pretending to be other people and
learning how to like be younger versions of someone, or
how to play a different character, or like spending all
night trying to figure out how to play a real
life person. And now I'm like figuring out who I
(20:21):
am and so my songs, I feel like the mood
of the music is always all over the place, but
it's because I am too.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
I'm finally just like growing into myself and figuring out like, Okay,
I have my own personality. I'm my own person like
who is that? And so I've been really figuring it
out and music has really.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Been helping that.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Is being a singer songwriter easier or harder than playing
a character?
Speaker 3 (20:49):
I'd say it's it's probably easier because I'm a really
emotional person. And I probably get that because I have
to be so open with my emotions and acting.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
But I'm just a.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Very deeply emotional person and so it's very easy for
me to just like spill my guts all the time
whenever songwriting. But I'd say like whenever it comes to performing,
doing a live performance is way scarier because you only
have one shot.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Oh interesting, interesting, Even scarier than a camera like in
your face.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
Yeah, because at least with like the camera in my face,
I have like thirty takes to do it. But I mean,
I don't know, there's just something about being on stage
and whenever you're acting, you know, of course there's a
crew around you and whatnot. But there's just something different
about looking out at everybody and they're watching you, like
(21:42):
in that moment, and they're watching what you're doing, and
you have like one chance to do it, and you're like, well,
pure goes nothing, and it's just so scary, but it's
really fun.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Well that makes total sense. It's amazing that you can
do it all in all different avenues of creativity. Going
back to the EP for a minute. Autumn. Why Autumn? Autumn?
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Oh? I love fall, Like I'm feeling so fall right now.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
I have like my best cup of tea, I have
my little like brown sweater on, I have like last
night I had like two different fall candles.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Going and two different corners of my room. I love fall.
It's my favorite season. I don't even know what else
to say. It's just perfect whenever it starts getting just
a little bit chilly and all the leaves turn, and.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Then you can start wearing sweaters without feeling like ashamed
of yourself because I just love sweaters so much, and
I'll wear them during the summer, but then.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
It's too hot and I'm dying. But I'm like, God,
but this is my favorite sweater.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
And it looks so good and so like I don't know,
breaking out the tea, Halloween, scary movies all month, and
then it's just it's also such a nice time for
anything romantic, and I don't know, there's always the worst
heartbreaking fall too.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
I find I'm with you, and I don't want to
make this about me, but I did happen to wear
my burgundy in your honor today in my Fall theme
for you, so I love it.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
I'm in my Fall theme for.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
You or Fall Twins. I love that. I'm a New
York City boy. I'm in New York right now. I'm
from the East Coast, so we really get fall.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
I love New York.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
I write about it all the time in my EP
and album I Love New York.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Yeah, it's a special city. Something else that came to
mind when I was listening to this, You know, you're
writing about people essentially or somebody. Do you ever worry
about putting out your personal life and how that person
is going to view what you're saying? Like is there
a line you won't cross? Are you cognizant to change
(23:38):
certain things? Like? How is that process when there is
somebody else involved? As a songwriter.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
It's terrifying because I get so specific and I'm saying
things that you know, like only I and this other
person will know. It's scary because I'm like, oh my god,
everybody's going to know who I wrote this about. Everybody's
going to know this, but it's like nobody's going to know.
It's just like it's nobody's gonna no except for us.
And so I was. I was frustrated in my last EP,
(24:08):
and I wrote a lot of things that weren't the nicest.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
And so I did have some phone calls.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Uh. You know, I just feel like, man, I still
have a phone call to make in regards to this EP,
and I'm not looking forward to it. But I feel
like it's important. Even though I feel like I'm not
saying anything wrong or bad, I'm just saying how I
felt and putting my emotions out there. I feel like
it's only fair just to be like, hey, by the way,
(24:38):
I wrote a lot of music, but it's also because
you broke my heart.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
But I wrote a lot of music and I'm putting
it out there.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
And luckily, like from my last EP, you know, those
phone calls actually came a lot of good and now
this person that I was so upset with for so
long and who like I was like, felt like really
hurt me or rogby you know, now we're like tight
and friends again and it's just like amazing, and I'm
like great, well, and now they make jokes all the
time about remember whenever you wrote that song about me,
(25:07):
and I'm like, yeah, if you like are mean again,
then I'll write more. But actually a really funny story
is that while I was recording what You'll Never Say,
like singing myself the apology that I never received, I
got my first phone call from this person in over
(25:31):
like eight months, and I actually like have the take
of me like like a cold, dirty out of nowhere.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
And so I was, I was singing this song and
I have the take of me going, oh my god,
so and so is calling me.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
And then like my producer, who like has been there
through everything through whenever I was writing this Autumn Leaves
Love song to now finishing this heartbreak.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Epee uh you know, and we freaked out.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
And then I kind of got the apology like semi
that semi that I never received, and it was like
crazy and I was like, that's such an insane story
to have now is that I'm singing myself the apology
I never received, and then all of a sudden I kind.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Of got it.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
And so it was just like so strange, and it
just like goes to show the universe works so weird,
Like I as soon as I finished this project, now
it's like, I don't know. Everything's kind of like nice again,
and it's just like, I don't know, it's strange to
see how everything works.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Yeah, and my heart break out of my system well.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Right, and music's healing. I mean, that's why I think
it's such an important art form that we all need
to have. And I'm such an avid music listener and
I don't know what I would do without music, And
that's why it's one of the most important things in
the world. To you. What makes music so important?
Speaker 3 (26:52):
I just connect so deeply, like emotionally with music, and it,
whether I'm writing it or listening to it, helps me
process my emotion and it can even whenever I'm acting,
you know, it can really transport me to a place
of very deep like emotions or sadness or anything. Like
I listen to music constantly whenever I'm playing a character
(27:12):
to get me into that headspace or that world, especially.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
With emotional scenes.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
But I don't know, finding a song that's like that
is exactly how I feel. I'll listen to it until
I can't anymore, you know, I don't know. I just
think that there's something also so special about music and
getting to see it live is so cool. Like I said,
over the weekend, I was with my dad at this
rock festival, which is so different than anything in regards
(27:40):
to this EP, but like just getting to see everybody
like jump around together and like feel that emotion and
that vibe and everybody's so excited and hyped together.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Like, I don't know, it's.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
So cool that just some people on stage with these
silly little like stringed instruments can make people feel that
and connect people in a way that they never would
have connected before.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Yeah, it creates that sense of community, which I think
we all need more than ever, which is again one
of the brilliant things about music. When I look at
you right now, you seem so light, you seem so excited,
You seem like you did go through a lot of
tough things that you wrote about, but you came out
on the other side. So McKenna I'm curious to know
(28:27):
if you could fill in this blank what you would say.
I am at a point in my life.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Where I'm at a point in my life where I'm
you know what.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
I'm at a point in my life where I'm starting
to like like myself, which is nice.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
It's a really nice feeling.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
I for so long, like I don't know, not to
get all like sad or deever weird.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Oh please, so long, I just like, I don't.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Know, I didn't like myself for so long, like I
felt like there was something so like deeply wrong with me.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
And now I'm like sitting here and I'm like, WHOA.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
I think I was just like a really like sad
teenager for a little bit, and now I'm like, I
turned seventeen, and I've been really working on improving myself
and my body and my mental health.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
And then I just like cleaned up my room and
made it really.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
Like light and cleaner and less clottered, and I'm just
trying to, like, I don't know, breathe, and I'm just like,
I don't know, I'm starting to get to like a
positive place with myself, which I think is really nice
because I'm like, oh, hey, I'm like, I'm feeling myself
lately and it's really nice.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
I'm just like, oh, I don't know, it's nice.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Good for you, Good for you. That self work is
something that I think we should never stop striving for.
And I love that you're at a place at seventeen
where you're starting to realize the importance of that and
taking time to allow yourself to grow in all those
different ways that you just talked about. I think that's
a really honest and cool answer. I usually wrap up
my show by asking all of my guests, what is
(30:14):
one thing that they've never said before? But I feel
like that maybe is something you really haven't talked about before.
Is that right?
Speaker 2 (30:20):
I think so.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
I think a lot of right now, like this entire
interview and just kind of with this EP in general,
I'm talking about, you know, things I've never talked about
it publicly, Like I don't know. As much as I
write about it, I don't I don't really talk about
my breakups or break up I'm singular, I don't really
(30:42):
talk about like I don't know, I could feel so weird,
like talking about my personal life or like my emotions
or like I don't know, but yeah, especially that, because
I feel like it's just been such a thing for
me for such a long time. And you know, I
have like a few songs out there about feeling into
here in myself, but I always, I always felt so
(31:03):
strange releasing something like that because I felt like I
didn't have like a moral of the story, or I
wasn't on the other side of it, and so I
felt like it wasn't fair for me to put something
out there that's like negative about myself but not know
like how to resolve that or how to fix it.
I go through things in life, but that's not who
I am, you know. And now I'm starting to finally
(31:23):
realize that, because it's easy to say, like I'm just
a sad person and that's who I am, and I
just don't like myself or.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
I'm just this. But it's like I'm always, throughout my
life going to go through moments where where.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
I probably hate myself or where I probably hate this,
or where I hate this or that, or where I'm
deeply sad or depressed.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
But that's not gonna last forever. That's not who I am.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
It's not something that will actively take over my life,
like it's just bumps and phases along the road, and
then the rest of life is going to be life,
and whatever happens happens, and I'm gonna have so many
more adventures and I'm gonna.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Have ups and downs, but it just like it comes
and goes.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
And I think that it's nice to like I'm in
like a more positive area of that ride right now
and I'm happy about it. Well.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
And that's what I loved about this conversation today and
about your EP is You're normalizing feeling all the emotions,
and I think that's so important. You know, one of
the most irritating questions to me that I get asked
or someone else might get asked, is, oh, you seem
really sad today. It's so unlike you Are you okay?
It's like, I'm allowed to be sad. I do have
a sad side as well, like I'm not always going
(32:31):
to be happy. And I think that you talking about
this and showing people that it's okay to feel what
you feel and then pull out of it and carry
on and not let it define you is such an
important message. And I hope you realize that through being
your honest self and through writing your truth you are
helping a lot of people feel seen.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
I hope so.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
And I mean I'm saying this right now as if
I wasn't like crying in the shower last night to
Phoebe Bridgers, like I was so sad yesterday.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
But now I'm just like, oh, I'm feeling good right now.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
So it's like it's all over the place all the time,
and I think that it's healthy and normal to feel that.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
But thank you. I try.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Yeah, yeah, it's a great message to put out there.
Autumn Leaves is out now. How can people stream download
all the things?
Speaker 3 (33:16):
All the things I don't know McKenna grace on like Spotify,
rable music, ramas on music or any of the things.
I have music videos on YouTube that I write myself
then I co direct them.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
So all the things, all the things. Well, congratulations on
this amazing ep. You heard it from Mechenna. Grab your fuzziest,
coziest blanket and a cup of tea and light some
pumpkin candles and I don't know, throw leaves around your
room and listen.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
To this right absolutely yeah, the leaf throwing bit is
really important.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Just bring a vacuum, crucial, absolutely crucial. Thank you so much. Congratulations.
I look forward to hearing more from you when the
next round of inspiration hits.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Thank you, it's already coming. There's too much good.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Well, thank you, thank you, thank you, and happy fall. Congratulations,
thank you, Happy ball. I've never said this before. It
is hosted by me, Tommy de Dario. This podcast is
executive produced by Andrew Puglisi at iHeartRadio and by me, Tommy,
I've Never Said this before. It's part of the Elvis
(34:21):
de Ram podcast network on iHeart Podcasts. For more, rate
review and subscribe to our show and if you liked
the episode, tell your friends until next time. I'm Tommy
de Dario and I hope this show encourages you to
say something that you've never said before.
Host
Tommy DiDario
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