When You're the Other Woman

Being "the other woman" comes with a whole host of stigmas and assumptions. Having a relationship with a married person can be toxic, and like Jill says in this episode, "You cannot win by causing someone else harm." Relationships built on infidelity and dishonesty will deal damage in one way or another. But the desire to cheat or to be a mistress can come from a deeper place than surface-level selfishness or cruelty. Jill, Aja, and Laiya reject the moral high ground in favor of a hard but honest conversation about cheating, questioning our own mentalities and choices, and moving on to more wholesome relationships.

Resources:

Progressive Love Academy (and on Instagram here)

Instagram post by Devale Ellis

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Ja Dot Dem, a production of I Heart Radio.
What's Up? What's Up? What's Up? This is Jill Scott.

(00:25):
This this j dot L Home Girls, La Sinclair and
j Asa Asia Danzler. You are pulling together Jill and
Asa at the same time. But you've got mad names,
Asian your mad names. I know it's been it's but

(00:51):
I'm very busy, right so we're just trying to pull
it all in together. It's one of those days. I
promise you're like out, Yeah, I ain't that some ship
to have off day. It's one of those for me.
I don't know. It might it might be canceled everything,

(01:13):
nap day. M hmm, I'm coming up that. I think
it could be that day. Is that day? If you
decide it's that day. I have much to do on
this day, uh says to you know what I'm saying.
I don't want to add stuff and be gus. I'm
all that. If you want to water, do that, go ahead,

(01:40):
delicious and nutritious. You know you gotta be careful because
folks will be like, oh, she's an alcoholic. No, you
do know how to write a song about that cocktail though,
I'll tell you that I wrote a song about a
contain Oh to get let me talking about Crown Royal. Yeah,

(02:02):
that's not a cocktail. That's not a cocktail. Spirit, it's
it's it's a spirit, okay, right, Uh, this is a
particular way to enjoy a spirit on ice. Understanding is
a mixed curve, a mixture of things, correct, correct, with
a little juice, little soda, little that's so that right, bright,

(02:26):
multiple things. See, I thought I was being deep. I
had never actually had crow. I'm gonna fight you today today, knuckle.
Actually before I was talking about putting the gentleman on

(02:52):
ice like Mary Jane like this, this is like a metaphor. Yeah,
I wasn't thinking. I wasn't thinking about the beverage at all.
But you know, shout out the Crown Royal for sitting
me on tour one time. I appreciate that. Yeah. But

(03:13):
you got a lot of I got in one. I got.
I got kind of stuff in the purpose waute hold
of circle back insect gone, yeah, you go a little
con that's a black ship right there. I got one

(03:34):
with the Bobby pears an insect. Yes man, yeah right
right right, So today I got one. I hid my
feminine products and do you that would be kind of cool,
though you couldn't use that back for that not for nothing.
Travel it's a hack. That's a travel hack. It's a

(03:54):
travel hack. Or jewelry, not that I have a plethora
of Crown Royal bags. By the way, this episode today,
we're gonna be talking about mistresses. Yeah, we got I mean,

(04:20):
do you never have to admit much on this thing here,
but if you want to, I like to speak from experience.
So I have been the woman and I have been
the mistress. I've been both of these things and uh yeah,

(04:42):
not proud of the mistress portion of the show and
not happy about being the woman either that gets cheated on,
you know, neither did me let me ask the question
was the person did you? Did you have it back
to back? Because you know, like the whole thing where

(05:04):
people say is if you get with somebody and through
that portal, they're gonna turn around and do the same
thing to you. That's always the you know, the talk.
I personally have seen it work after a person was
with their mistress and they married to him a long
long time. Yeah, I've seen that too. But I've also

(05:25):
seen that when the uh when the guy leaves his
wife that he ends up cheating on the mistress too.
But you know, it's just a goddamn cheater. He's just
a cheater. It's just the way that it is, because

(05:53):
after a while, a mistress isn't a mistress. You keep
him for too long and she just becomes your woman
and then yeah, it's not the same. Let's see. That's
the thing. I thought that a mistress is a long
term mate that you have whilst married, And I thought
an affair is just okay, you had a little situation,
has some sex, and boom, you did wrong. It's over,

(06:17):
so it's no difference. No, I looked that up. I
looked the mistress part up and she's right. It says
that a woman having a well a person having an
extra mental sexual relationship, especially with a married person. So
maybe I think a mistress is more officient when it's
someone that is married. An affair can be on a relationship, yeah,

(06:41):
married or not. Okay, okay, that makes sense that right. Yeah,
So why we only have a title for women who
have relationships with married people? What's the male mistress? What's
the male mistress? Somebody knock on the door, somebody just
read the uh that ain't got no name. What is

(07:06):
a male cheater called? Uh a Mr jiggerlow? Now jigger
ain't money, They get paid, you know what I mean. See,
that's Asian. You just did. She just opened the door
because we're good. We're good to vilify women in a situation,

(07:27):
not saying that some people. There are some people who
don't care. And I know that there are some people
who prefer married men. But of the group, I venture
to say that's a small number. That's just me. Yeah,
I know I didn't go into my mistresshood willingly. You
got lied to right here. I don't say I've got

(07:48):
lied too. I'm just gonna say I went in there unwillingly.
You know, things transpired, the relationship change course, and I
didn't really wanted to change course, but the physicality of
it wanted it to change course. Even know, man, I
would fight that joint every time, like okay, right me.
First of all, that's that, that's that's not unwillingly. You

(08:11):
still decide that that you decided you was gonna do
it just because you felt bad about the ship. Let
me just say this, the excuses are no a void.
I don't have no excuse. I mean, that's why I
knew I was alone for a long time after, Nor
do I. I don't have any excuses. I the reality

(08:31):
is I was very, very lonely, and I was looking
for something and I found I found what I was
looking for. And that, to my to my to my shame,
to my shame, I'm not proud of that in any way,
shape or form. Luckily, though, um, I woke up one

(08:53):
morning and realized exactly what it was that I was doing.
I was all in these people's business, all in their
lives and shouldn't have been, and I did the best
I could to maneuver him back in the direction of
the woman that actually loves his ass all who who
was the who? You? Was in a business? Who offered

(09:18):
the business? See, that's the thing, and what was the
business that was told? Because what I have heard and
what I have witnessed is that mugs, mugs are able
to concoct the narrative you feel me, narrative in which
they're able to manipulate the loneliness of one woman and

(09:40):
the perceived shortcomings of another woman. So they get in
there and they say, listen, I ain't getting no sex
at home they do. She don't cook, she don't clean,
she don't even like me, she talk to what you
think it is a So what happens is that's lonely

(10:03):
and upset. It's like, all right, boom, I'm all those things,
and I feel bad for this man, good man Savannah. Yeah,
I wasn't that. I wasn't that naive. But I hear,
yeah it isn't. I mean, I'm just saying at the
core of it, and you still a conscients that he's
just cheating with you. Yeah, I mean, I'm not trying

(10:24):
to paint it as this massive naive situation. We're all
grown up here. You make choices. But I still think
there's a lot of manipulation there, particularly from the men involved.
When it is when that is the case, that um
that they draw up this story and the story fits

(10:45):
the narrative. Yes, I just don't think that there's any
excuses for it. I think that even the quote unquote
best of women, if I may, you know, can get

(11:08):
to a point where they're so uh lonely that they're
willing to accept a piece of a man instead of
having a whole one and willing to accept yo man,
you know, and that's a that's a big problem because
you cannot win. This is what I learned. You cannot

(11:30):
win by causing someone else harm. It just does not work.
Life does not work that um. You know, whatever whatever
the war mongers might think and the white supremacists or
hateful people may think, you do not win by doing
other people harm. It just doesn't work. Period. So yeah,

(11:51):
like I said, excuses, but to a room. At the
same time, I got in the middle of some things
and just should not have been there, and I had
to pay for it. And I hope that that payment
is is done in completely. Now. It was many years ago.
They are together and happily married. They called me occasionally

(12:16):
to see how I'm doing. I said, they didn't to
see how I'm doing, and we should chat for a minute.
And I oddly enough, you know, I asked questions like
y'all still kissing in the mouth? First of all, God
bless us, I would not. That's what I said. That's

(12:37):
what I said. What yeah, nigger we call it? Who? Yeah?
They though, I think they do. I think they feel
that way, and they are. She is an exceptional woman.
I think she's an exceptional I said, Look here, there
is no way in the world I'm ever going to
be home at six o'clock with dinner on the table.

(12:58):
I'm never going to be her ever. So I know
that that's what you're used to. I know that I'm
you know, fanciful right now and exciting to you right now.
We don't have bills to pay together, we don't have
children and raised together. We don't have a car, we
don't have a business. We have nothing together but these times,
and it's not healthy. And um, I don't like living lies,

(13:23):
and I can't imagine that you would either, So you
know this has to stop. And it did, and it did,
and luckily, like I said, they were able to hold
their marriage together and enjoy each other. And I call
them on their anniversary. Jesus, listen, Jill, stop calling them

(13:46):
on the anniver Don't call them on that. Don't call them,
don't when you think you want because for real, real, Jill,
do you think that if you was not and not
even you for my famous sense, but a combination of
that and who you are and con seems to me
in a way, do you think that because the random check,
do you think she had this experience? I doubt it. Yeah,

(14:07):
I doubt it. But I've had so many experiences that
other people would not have, and and that's just my
whole life, so so so many experiences that I just
think I'm a unicorn, like in a lot of ways,
you know, um, but like they don't invite you into
the three song. No, those uh, those invitations are not accepted.

(14:30):
They never did, they never did, you know. But I'm
happy to know that there Asia is flipped out. Look
at her. She don't know. Oh no, I'm not flipped
I'm listening. I'm not flipped out. I feel that a
woman should make whatever choices she wants. I'm saying that
right over here at a twenty that I would not

(14:50):
do that. However, I felt like, hey, you know, you
got whatever floats your boat. I do will. I will
say this though, and I actually don't mean this specifically
about what Jill said, but I just hear this a
lot that when women take men back from these situations.
It's like there's this this thing that I see people do,
particularly men, though, where they say, oh, she's such a

(15:11):
great woman or she's such an awesome woman. And I
sometimes I think some women get caught up in that
ship where they think that they're that as a woman,
that being a good woman means being able to you know, ums,
get five, we have well to survive all of this
pain and that men men hand out these crowns. Oh

(15:34):
my wife is amazing. Whoa because you tried to kill
her with your infidelity and your dishonesty. Now she's a
good woman. And I think what that does is it
sets up a situation for a lot of other women
to where they'd be thinking, oh, in order to be
a good woman, I gotta yeah the funk that. And

(15:56):
it's the thing and and and that's one thing I
really will give to millennials and really to jim z eers.
They ain't messing with struggle love. They need struggle love
to us. They like, y'all got that. That's gonna be
interesting with the whole concept of that. Some believe that,
you know, some people just inherently can't be monogamous, monogamous.
I can't even look, I can't even say the word

(16:17):
that means monogamous, monogamous. They can't just leave me. Yeah,
that just don't feel Is that right, Jill? Is that
it's so crazy? Is that because what, well, what y'all

(16:49):
feel about the poly it's called polyamorous. I just found
out my cousin is in a polyamorous relationship because we
and it tripped me out because I was like, you're broke.
I don't understand. He's a he's the man, and it's
two women to why women, you're kind? I never understood
why a woman can't have two men. I mean, I

(17:10):
understand it because men can't know. I'm telling you, I've
just met an article about a woman like that. Who
is she? I love her? She has her own Instagram page. Listen, ship,
let me find it, y'all pause, Hold on, I go
right ahead. I love that. I think if you are,

(17:32):
if you're capable, then I don't understand why you can't.
I just don't get that. No, I'm not. I guess
I'm not a post I did and I did watch
Big Love and enjoy it. But that's the thing. It's like,
if if all things are fair and equal, it's just
that's hard. That's a hard goal. It would be fair

(17:52):
and equal. With fair and equal, I don't know if
you have imbalance. It all depends on what the other
person requires. Maybe your other meet only needs to see
you because they're s sufficient and busy. So the name
of her page is Progressive Progressive Underscore Love Underscore Academy,

(18:21):
and she is married to two men. She also has
a boyfriend. She has two children, one from each of
her husband's and they are both older, like as in
college students. I'm sorry, progressive what was the other part?
Progressive Underscore Loved Score Academy. Continue, I'm sorry. I think

(18:46):
she's a hero. This is interesting because and I think
her boyfriend counts as a male mistress, so we need
to ask her what is he called? I feel like cheery.

(19:17):
I think that that's so fair if you're a woman
that could could uh love and care for uh two men.
I just I think it's fair your I've just lit up, y'all.
They did. It seems like such this odd thing. But
powerful women may want more than one mate. Powerful men

(19:42):
do they want? She teaches this stuff. We have to
talk to her, y'all. She's like, she's like, i'd see
her comment in somebody. These are skills and tools we
train at the p l A Academy. Are you there yet? What? Oh?
I'm so following her. I just I'm curious and interested,
not that I wanted because I don't I prefer to

(20:03):
have one man that I literally have only the patience
for a single feel me. Yeah, yeah, that's just the
way that I have made Yes. But but but, like
I said, the polyamorous community seems to also have ditched
a lot of the gender norms. So when you go

(20:24):
into that community, yeah, like whereas you when in like
polygamy or traditional polygamy, which isn't necessarily cheating or mistressing,
you know, it's like it's very paternal, it's very many
only kind of club dad. But in the polyamorous community,
it seems as though that they kind of ditch a

(20:44):
lot of those gender norms and a lot of those
kind of systems. But you know, like I said, we
do know it exists. That's the thing with each other?
Do they do the males um? Is? Its a love fest? Girl?
I have really don't know what happens over here. She

(21:05):
probably to tell us, she wanna tell us. Yeah, we're
gonna have to reach out. Okay, I got one. So
what happens when the wife gives permission to the mistress?
You are welcome to take him, enjoy him, have him whatever,
you listen, whatever flows your boat. I'm trying to tell

(21:25):
y'all about eight. All I can really speak on is
what happens at this address, and at this particular address.
I'm saying, if you're getting the dick, you also have
to get the rest of it. You don't get to
just get the fun. So unless you're trying to share all,

(21:50):
so damn you open to a polyamorous Now see now
I'm not okay, I'm closed. I'm closed for business bus closed.
Then you hear me. We don't have no hours of

(22:11):
for that. What I'm saying is that there's no way
I would give permission for it. Like listen, listen, child,
you're gonna have to baby say some of these kids
or something like I can't just be over there enjoying life.
This is something you might have. A friend who her
her husband was messing with a woman, a mistress for

(22:35):
quite some time and decided that he wanted to end
the marriage and move on with the mistress. And what
she did was she dropped the children off and said,
you want him, you want this life, You're welcome to
have it. I will see them in the summer. It's

(22:58):
two of you. You, the two of you are capable
of raising children. I am a single woman, now and
I have to do an entire life. So I'll see
them in the summer. We'll playing amazing summers while I
stack up my money and get my whole self together.

(23:20):
For she is my hero. She is he's a hero.
I have a question for y'all. So you're the wife,
do you do the confrontation thing? I always wondered about that.
Are you a confrontation person who you're feeling like, I'm

(23:40):
gonna go talk to this chick. You're gonna talk like
on some barber styles when you've been on the flip side?
Do you do you tell homeboy that, Okay, you did
what you did, Go clean your mass, come back when
it's done. Do I know R? Do you know? Do
she know? I exist? Factors? You know it's factors. It's like,

(24:03):
do I know her? You find her, and this is
a big thing. You find text messages or emails and
you're able to do a little bit of light detective
work and you find her. You know where she lives,
you know where she worked. He don't even know that.
You know, you got all that's all him and feel

(24:24):
like it's like now I have to prove to say
something to him. Unless she is like a girlfriend of mine,
and then we got a problem, then we got a problem,
then we have a problem. I feel like I want
to talk to her, like I want to. I feel
like I want to know what this nigga been saying
about me, you feel it. I feel like we gotta

(24:46):
talk because even if she's not an ally, I just
feel like that's only because she don't know the truth.
Like I'm like, I need to. I need to sift
through this thing and find out what's popping us that.
I feel like it's going to determine the amount of
forgiveness I'm going to, Uh, I'm gonna put out. I

(25:06):
need to do a quick audit because I need to
find out did he did he give you a story?
You know? Is it a lie? Like what's going on here?
How did this happen? So I just need to kind
of hear that. Not saying that I I trust her,
but I feel like I trust the person on the
other side a little bit more than I do the husband.
I just do that, especially now I feel like I

(25:31):
do because I'm just like, m that's a whole you
know what Asian? Your answer that was such a whole,
Like I'm a whole wife, I've been married for a while,
and you have really thought about that in that way
like that's ill, it's very mature. But yeah, well I
don't know. I mean, I would say I don't know
if I like super thought about it. Because here's the thing.
I don't really care about what my husband does when

(25:53):
he's out of my eyesight. What I care about, honestly,
at the end of the day is how I feel.
If I feel secure. Um, I feel secure. When I
don't feel secure, I gotta get to the bottom of
why that. That's my issue there. It's like, I don't
I don't want a person I gotta chase after I
don't want a person I got to look through that phone.

(26:16):
If I have to look through your phone, there's an
issue there. Really to address that, the fact that I
even feel like I gotta look, that's the problem for me. Yeah,
I ain't never been that girl. What girl? The girl?
I haven't m hmm, Have I ever been that girl? No? Um,

(26:39):
every relationship that I've been in, I've had always had
the code to the phone if I wanted it. But
did you look, like periodically would you just look just
to you know? No, I used the phone? You know,
but I didn't look through anything. I'm not looking. I
think that everything in the dark comes to like anyway. Well,

(26:59):
if you don't me asking how did you find out
about the affair when you were the person on the side,
if you feel like talking about it, I'm just if
it wasn't finding it in the phone. Oh, I knew,

(27:26):
I knew, I was aware. I got the sad story.
You know, I was already half crazy, lonely by, you know,
with myself, and then uh, you know, his story was
that he was lonely and you know there was no communication,
and you know, blah blah blah blah blah. What what
married men say? That is the That is the truth

(27:49):
that right there, that is what married men say. They're
going to say that. They're gonna say they're lonely. They're
gonna say she doesn't talk. They're gonna say they don't
have sex. They're gonna say these things. So be mindful
if you don't want you feeling to her, you know,
be mindful because that's the line. Those are the lines.

(28:10):
You don't understand me. She didn't support me. But then
you know, I hate to do this. But then there's
that eight little thing you know, I know, I know,
but it's it's it's valid. Oh yeah, I've been using
it ever since. Yeah, that's the best thing that ever
came out of wanted to move. Yes, yes, it's it's valid.

(28:32):
You know, you might be getting in what you need
at home and missing twenty and that twenty show. It
look good until that's all you're getting, until that's it.
She can't make a sandwich, she don't. You know, there's
no no deep, deeper conversation than what's on uh, you
know whatever blog or whatever that is, you know, and

(28:53):
then you're just stuck with this beautiful fool and now
what now what for you? You know, that's that's a
heavy line to carry, that's a that's a road of toe.
You don't want that they Yeah, but I still I
still circle back to the fact that if you build
a thing on a lie and there you have it,

(29:14):
you know, it doesn't have anything to stand or so really,
I'm not even sure if it's the shortcoming of the
person you chose more than it's just the fact that, well,
it's built on b s. A lot of times I
noticed that we uh women, I guess I would assume
this men too. You ignore the signs. If he started

(29:40):
off cheating, or when you were his girlfriend and he
was cheating, what makes you think that this person isn't
accustomed to these kinds of tactics. That is not that
it's somehow all of a sudden, you got married and
it's beneath him. That's that's the same homie, and he's
gonna do the same kind a dirt that he was

(30:01):
doing when you guys were dating. Because I always wonder
how many times do you forgive? Like recently, I won't
say who it is, but a person who um is
in the religious community got caught out there for a
third time cheating on his wife. After he went on
a whole full campaign about how his wife was amazing

(30:23):
and about how she was so mature and still he
had to grow into being with her and all this stuff.
He wasn't mature enough to handle her, bought her a
whole bunch of expensive gifts, and then turned right back
around and boop, scoop the boom once again, here we are.
Why can't you be better at it? Don't get caught? Huh.

(30:47):
I'm gonna tell y'all something interesting. There was a thread
on Twitter where a girl said a men only give
me advice on relationships. This thread was very telling young
men older men. One of the one things that I
did see was no second chances. We know exactly what
we're doing and we're aware of the consequences. Mm hmmm,

(31:11):
mm hmmm. Wow, I thought that was fascinated. I wonder
if it was if it's if it's vice versa. I
guess did they feel that about their mates as well? Like,
because you know, not for nothing, we can't make it
so that men are the only ones that cheat. So
I'm like, so, did she gets no chances? Either's no toleance,
zero tolerance rule. Maybe who knows. I guess I'm just

(31:35):
saying that at the end of the day. Now, for me,
I just want to be honest. Honesty and communication, those
are my things. So I want to know what's happening
with my relationship. So there's a part of me, out
of curiosity and and growth that I want to know

(31:58):
how we got here. Which leads me to a question
for the both of y'all, what is worse a physical
cheated relationship or a non physical cheating relationship? What's worse? Yeah, Like,
you find out basically, you find out he has been

(32:18):
with someone, he's he's been spending time with someone. It
hasn't been physical, but they've been spending all a lot
of time together that's beyond friendship. Or you find out
that it's just a physical stick thing that he's just me.
You know, I don't know what's worse. I don't know
what's worse either way. Either way, it hurts almost leading

(32:40):
to them to spending the time part because that's that's
deep to me, and it's precious. It's really precious. We
don't look at sex the same way, but we could.
You know that that that we've joined together and you
know you're not supposed to be, you know, sticking me,
digging nobody else, like that's against the rules. Then we

(33:02):
talk about that. Yeah, but the agent said we shouldn't
think our things. But so precious remember that. First of all,

(33:33):
I personally feel that. I mean, I don't think that
certain things is tied to the worth of an individual
anyway whatever anyway, So it's it's equal to y'all. I
just I was just curious because I was like that time,
I feel like it's it's all pain for I feel
I agree with you, it's it's all painful, you know
what I'm saying either way, because sex is a connection

(33:54):
and love making is a connection. And I would assume
if you marry somebody that you're marrying then because the
sex is more than physical, that the sex is tied
into the emotional and tied into the connection that you
all have. So, you know, it's a hard question for
us three because from what I know of us three,
we're all three of very sexual people. So I don't know.

(34:19):
I feel like if the question was supposed to a
person who maybe wasn't it, it would be a little different,
Like if you ain't giving it to your husband and
he go get it somewhere else versus spending time. Yeah, well,
I guess that's all into what you're able to give.
Because let me just say this, a woman can be

(34:39):
quote unquote less sexual for a lot of reasons. Could
be medical, reasons, could be emotional or trauma related when
we talked about that in another podcast. And so again,
if he goes and get to someplace else, the pain
from not being able to give that type of connection

(34:59):
would be a lot more intense than him talking on
the phone with somebody because you ain't got no time
because you're nursing, or you're doing fifty million other different
dayn things. So I don't know. It all depends on
the relationship. Deep in Butoana when I lived there, say

(35:39):
they used to have these um billboards up and the
billboards would say don't live in the little house. Something
like that was paraphrasing me. We just like, don't live
in the little house. And I, you know, to see
it on time, I said, well what does that mean? Um,
when you're married in Butoyana, Um, if you're been in

(36:00):
the little house, your mistress, the wife lives in the
big house. If you're found out to be having an affair, um,
people will not do business with you because if your
wife can trust you, how can anyone else. You lose
the rights to your children because you're not trustworthy to

(36:24):
raise children. And I thought that that was, you know,
pretty free and awesome. One one bad night, just I
thought it was that there was a societal standard that
wasn't you know something that you talk about in a
closed room. This is it's a billboard, you know, this

(36:47):
is not what you live in a little house. Don't
live in a little house. Don't live in a little house.
I wonder how many little houses there? And I don't
know if there are many. Um, I haven't been there
in a in a out eleven twelve years. But that's
what it was when I was there, and I thought,
that's pretty incredible that that there's a societal standard women

(37:10):
hold on. But who lives in the little house? The man,
the mistress? This is what don't settle in my spirit?
What doesn't settle in my spirit? Got to live in
the little house, like put his ass in the little house?
What I think it goes both ways. I think that

(37:33):
if you're a wife, it's probably worse if your wife
and you found out, if the community finds out you're
having an affair, it's worse for you. It's always worse
with the women. Yeah. I met a friend in Butuana
and we were super cool, just a really nice guy.
And he said, I can't you know, I can't be
a friend. I said, what do you mean? You can't

(37:55):
be with a friend, Like we're chilling, laughing, busting it up.
He's like no, because people they think that we're, you know,
having a relationship. And I was like, but we're not,
Like we're never alone alone, Like we're always in public
somewhere he's like, yes, that I could lose my children.
So and I was like, fair enough, good luck existance,

(38:22):
and you know we should we should complete goodness because
I was like, wow, there are ramifications. I mean, a
part of me feels like yes, but then a part
of me feels like, hmmm, I don't know. We're all

(38:43):
human beings. We're not above making mistakes and betraying another
person's trust for multiple reasons that are not about our character.
And so brings me back to the beginning of our
our conversation where it's just like m the willingness to

(39:05):
do a thing comes from a place. Maybe the thing
isn't great, maybe the choice isn't a good one, but
the reason you make it is coming from a place
that should be addressed. We have to stop not addressing that.
Even in the men who are willing to lie, lie
and manipulate for it, something in them is going It's
something going on in them, or even women who do

(39:26):
the same, because we're not even talking about relationships same
gender relationships where women and men are cheat on each
other also, so it's not just there's something in the
person who is um in a relationship or married that
decides to go out of it, that that part should
be addressed because I don't really talking to me because
I'm cheated and well, and he says, so it's so

(39:50):
hard to say because I thought for a while that
I might that might be a thing for me. Yeah. Right.
So it's it's like we put band aids on things

(40:13):
just get through. So sometimes sex is the band aid
because instead of me facing myself and being okay with
being alone, I just I went the worst route I
think I could, and I feel no kind of pride
about it. That is one of the things that that

(40:33):
trips me out the most. As me um. So often
i'll do something or I'll say something, They're like, oh
my god, you're so sweet, You're so you know, give
me a lot of praise and love for being um me.
And I try to remember and I try to make

(40:54):
sure that other people remember. I'm just a person. I
get ship bucked up, I make mistakes, I do the
wrong thing. But at this age, um, in this place
that I am in my life, I don't want to
do the wrong things, and I don't have to do
the wrong things. I recognize now that if if I'm

(41:17):
about to head down a direction that's not going to
bring me pride about myself. Then I really really need
to address what's what the wound is, what's going on.
Maybe I need a weekend somewhere. Maybe I need to
sit under a tree. Maybe I need to hug one.
Maybe I need to call my mom. Maybe I need
to pry real good. Maybe I need to work out.
Maybe I need to, you know, go on a vacation.

(41:39):
Maybe I need to take a drive. Maybe you know,
I need to be quiet. Maybe I need to pray.
You know what I'm saying, Like just the expectations of people.
It's not fair, it's not healthy, less than fair, it's

(41:59):
it's not healthy. People make mistakes, bad choices, and hopefully
they learned from them. Um, I always feel like God
does not play with me. Ever I do something left,
I do something left old, it doesn't even take time,

(42:21):
like the next day five minutes later. Like that's what
you get. That's why you tripped, That's why you know
what I mean? Like not to say that stuff doesn't
happen in life, but God does not play with me.
And I'm grateful for that. You know why I say
that too, that you I feel like God don't play
with nobody. But what's special about you is that you're

(42:42):
receptive to the communication about it. That part is hard.
Some people don't want to pay attention to it. I think,
what was it my angels said about the pebble and
the brick? She did she say it? Whereas like people
get the pebbles, they be ignoring the pebbles, and then
that brick come pay them, and like, oh man, what happened.

(43:03):
I didn't know I was tripping, blah blah. But what
you're saying, or at least what I got from what
you're saying, is that you've learned to pay attention to
the pebbles, and the pebbles allow you to shift your
energies when you feel like, oh, I'm not in alignment
with where I want to be right now. This is
not indicative of the person that I want to be
or the woman that I want to be in this moment.

(43:24):
And that could be anything, that could be about any anything,
And I feel like we all really struggle with that
because I've always prayed, that's been my prayer for many years,
is to be the pebble person, to always be able
to be receptive to communications. But um, I wanted to
read something to y'all. Okay, I follow a blogger and

(43:48):
he's an actor. His name is Devout, and him and
his wife. I think there's any other like fourteen years
or something like that, anywhere from twelve to fourteen. I'm
not a hundred percent shore, but they have a very
very popular um where series. Okay, so he writes. The
most commonly asked question by men aspiring to be in
a healthy monogamous relationship is how do you keep the

(44:09):
flame burning hers and yours. Women often believe that men
are only concerned about losing interest in one woman, but
the truth is men are even more concerned about that
woman losing interest in them. Insecurity is like a fire
extinguisher to a flame. Women can sense it and will
start to become unattracted. I know this because I've been

(44:32):
there before in my relationship. Then immediately my ego needed
to be fed to suppress my insecurity, and the quickest
way to do that was by seeking the attention of
other women. The cycle began because Kay became insecure and
we wanted to be together. But no flame can survive
a trapped environment. I first had to check myself and
realize that my insecurities were coming from my past, not

(44:54):
my present. The way I felt about myself had very
little to do with Kay, who is his wife. But
there I was projecting my flaws onto her and stifling
the very spark that attracted her to me and me
to her self sabotage. Then I found myself asking her
to be the solution to a problem I caused and

(45:14):
yet and had yet to deal with internally. I'm gonna
say it one more time. Then I found myself asking
her to be the solution to a problem I caused
and had yet to deal with internally. That was a
no win situation for either of us. This is the end.
The truth is there is nothing a man can do

(45:36):
to fan the flames of a woman's sexual desires. If
he is not confident and she does not ignite the
spark within herself, she will never be able to be
what he wants her to be in the bedroom, and
she feels imprisoned instead of empowered. So if you want
to keep shit hot, make sure you are making love
to her mind constantly and she feels free in your presence,

(45:57):
because there is nothing more erotic than in a powered
woman that trust she can share her sexual fantasies with
you dead ass whoa yeah, yeah, keep it clapping, shoot
a clap. Wow, that's good. That was super powerful. That's funny.

(46:20):
I just I sat there and I was like, Damn,
that's what they're doing. That's what a you're doing. That's
what they're doing working on his own self. Hey man,
that's power. That's what are you doing? Wow mm hmm.

(46:54):
I love when we have these conversations and I feel
like somebody just like pulled off the first leg of
my skin and I just feel a brand new air.
I love that. I love that. This is what it's
all about, sparking conversation, sparking conversation, and wherever you may be,

(47:15):
have been this conversation with people that uh that are
open minded, people that are not afraid to uh disagree.
It's okay if you disagree, it's all right. It's not
the end of the world with people figuring stuff out
as we go. Amen. I tell you this, I will

(47:37):
never be a mistress again. I don't care. I don't
care if I had to wrap myself up in a cocoon.
I don't care if I had to come to your
house like yeah that, I'm like, I keep up in
the house on away from it. Now. I'm joking, but
you're right, just doesn't bless your life, and we don't

(47:58):
have I don't have the time for the calm rae
any more. I put my time in that is real. Nope,
I definitely made a point to apologize, and luckily, I
guess you know, I guess luckily you know the apology
was received. I won't even say accepted, I'll just say received.

(48:21):
You know, I really do like to live my life
above board. I do. That is a blessing and I'm
gonna live via you through that solution, because that's that's
not my ending. But I'm just that's beautiful. They are
together though, and happy, and more babies have been made,
so that's a good thing girl. And hopefully whatever, he

(48:41):
won't come back and do something similar. Oh listen, you
ain't got your job aide to keep other women out
of the little house. You just stay out. My job
isn't just a kid to keep saying every time he
comes as no, no, already the little house was there?

(49:08):
A little house because you don't want Carmer to kick
your ass? Will because you don't want to come out
I kick your ass expiration, ladies and fellows, no expiration.
Mm hmmm. It's it's interesting. Anytime I do something good,

(49:29):
I'd be like, oh, I hope that's a fixed. We
don't know. Let's see. You have to listen. I'm about
to go grandma on you right quick, come stop. You
have said, you did what you did, You said what
you said, you did the things you needed to do,
and you have to leave that. Don't worry about that

(49:50):
no more. I'm not beating myself, believe me. I'm just
talking about my my spiritual bank. I feel you my
spiritual bank. Yeah. Let me tell you something now, Oh
I am I only do things that make me feel good.
Is that fair? Yes? As as a human, as a

(50:11):
as a woman, as a as a mother, I really
only do things that make me feel good. When I
make the dinner, it makes me feel good that I'm
going to feed my family and that they're going to
eat well. When I um sing the songs, it makes
me feel good that the audience is enjoying themselves and

(50:32):
having moments and clapping their hands and dancing and making
out and having shared and tears. That makes me feel good.
If I if I give money to a homeless man.
It makes me feel good the number one I had
it to give and second that I gave it, and
I you know, I don't know what he's gonna do
with it. But that thing, that thing I like that

(50:52):
I like living in this way. I'm trying to tell
you for all of us, I'm just saying that. But
you're but you have a she that is a such
a goal, you know what I mean, like to be
able to say that, like just take a moment like yeah.
But it's a choice like any other choice. It is hard.

(51:12):
Part is the heart. The hard part is making the choice,
you know, to only do things that make you feel good.
Right now, what now? What happens if the mistress her
being with other people's husbands, if that makes her feel good?
Now what now? She got to get her aspe? Now,

(51:38):
get her now, she's got to get her aspeat. All
the day long, it's gonna happen. It's gonna happen, whether
it's by the by the wife's hands, by life's hands,

(51:58):
like it's gonna happen. I really believe that you cannot
when by doing harm, you can't. You might do something
gangster and get millions and millions of dollars for it.
You're not gonna keep it. Something's gonna happen. You're not
gonna You're not gonna be healthy. You need of loneliness.

(52:20):
It usually needs to a life of loneliness. Yeah, I
mean yeah, because again you're not addressing the thing that
makes you do that. So yeah, doing crack feel good too?
You know what I'm saying. So here, you're not right.
I never had no crack to speak of, but I'm
just saying what I'd hear in the streets is crack
is lovely when you're using it. But the point is that,

(52:44):
I mean, just because it feels good to you doesn't
mean it's good for you. And you have to really
do the soul search and to decide why that feels
good to you and what is it that you're really
trying to get there, Because it's like, are you trying
to get something that you don't have to commit to? Like,
what are the reasons why this feels good to you?
I'm interested in that, you know, I joked out about

(53:04):
getting her as speak, but mostly I'm just like, well,
why does that feel good? And why is that the
only way that you feel you can get that? I
would like somebody to ring the bell because that there
you go again, the nick ning ninging. Ye, fair enough.
I love everybody knows. I love the women folk. I

(53:25):
love the black women folk here. So my tendency is
to air on the side of forgiveness and that vibe
because I just want to know what's going on with us.
We don't really get an opportunity to talk about what's
going on with us, and we get extra vilified for
every reaction that we have. So I just rather know, Okay.

(53:48):
So we know that there is uh quote unquote shortage
of black men. It is, yes, that's rights. Uh yes,
and it's been depending on where I apologize, I apologize.
And there is a difference between males and men. Oh

(54:08):
now you really? Now you where's the where's the bell? At?
Ni nick name? Go back to Chris rock joke is
all I'm saying. There is a difference, and that okay.
So currently the man that I am enjoying wholeheartedly opens
doors and pays for dinner and dances with me and

(54:35):
listens and shares and works forward. But which is very
attractive to me. Now, what does that works forward? Works forward?
Not just working to be working, but working to move
forward in a constant state of forward. I love it.
I'm strategicy. Yes, yes, I like that. I like that.

(54:59):
There's not a lot of them. He doesn't deal in lies,
doesn't like it. His parents have been married fifty two
fifty three years. I'm off they still hug and kissing
the mouth. So he's seen it. He knows what it

(55:27):
looks like, he knows what it feels like. I don't.
I've only had moments of it with my grandparents. I
had moments with it with my uncle and aunt before
he passed away, But overall, I never had a I
won't say never. I didn't get a chance to spend
a lot of time with it, uh to see what

(55:48):
makes it work, to see what makes the engine go,
and being able to speak to his parents on a
regular basis, and a man that is poor, how to
say that he's never had an affair, that he's completely
dedicated and absolutely loves his wife. And she sits in it.

(56:10):
Did that thing right there? She's sitting it so good,
she just relaxed in it. And how he goes out
of his way to make sure that she's happy, and
how many times during a conversation he says that that
is the most important thing in his world. Like, then
where are they? You know what I mean? Like our

(56:34):
men don't get an or our women, we don't really
get an opportunity to see what a beautiful union looks like.
So we get in a way of things and we
cause damage because we don't know any better, or we
know better, No, I don't know. No, we use examples
we see on TV. We're doing the thing where we're

(56:57):
putting band aids over the wounds instead dealing of what
is really really really going on. Yeah, I think some
and I love that that is your perspective, because that's
such a great opportunity for you to kind of sit
at the feet of people who you think and who
who have made an impression on you with their relationship,
because a lot of times people don't get to do that.

(57:18):
You're right, we all don't get that opportunity, to say,
the feet of people who may be able to shed
some light on this, you know, mystery of you know,
long term relationships, and it's it's it's rough, you know,
when you're basically trying to find your way in the dark.
I remember a few weeks ago, and it's a little
bit difficult for me to read kind of noticing people

(57:41):
say things. Sometimes it felt a little bit slide like, oh, well,
it don't matter if you've been married a long time,
you could be miserable, or people be miserable together a
long time. And even though I think that that does happen,
sometimes I think that. And I don't think any relationship
should solely have its value and the amount of time
that's it shouldn't solely have its value there, but that

(58:04):
is an accomplishment to live fifty years of your life
with another person. No one will be able to tell
you or understand the lessons that you have learned from
that relationship. People need to continue to honor the value
of that. You can't do a thing for fifty years

(58:27):
and not learn anything and not grow. You cannot do that,
you know, And I know that that some of our
grandparents kind of grew up in eras where we would
go back and look at the real if we could
really be a fly on the wall. I know, at
least for myself, there will be things there that I
know are extremely problemly problematic for me. I'm like, well, no,
that I couldn't do that, or those are circumstances to

(58:49):
which I would not I would not tolerate that, you
know what I'm saying, um, So, I do want to
give a little credit to us and the generation is
coming after us as we begin to look at and
learn from and perfect how we will connect and relate
to each other, particularly as black people and black people
coupled together, you know what I'm saying, and that we

(59:11):
start to sift through these skill sets and and do better.
The young man who I read earlier, he um his
hashtag is millennial marriage. So I think they're at least
ten years or more younger than us, and that is
inspirational to me. I know you brought up Kierre, who
is another brother that has a great dad blog. He's

(59:32):
in his I think late twenties, early thirties. So we're
starting to see even those folks that come in after
us really take note to these really important things around
relationships and the quality of relationships and do better well.
I I absolutely think that hanging around happy fulfilled uh elders,

(01:00:01):
it's a good choice. You never know when they're gonna
drop that thing on you, that one thing that like
you ladies seem to do that pulls the skin off
your face getting peeled like you never know when something
like that it's gonna occur. So definitely spend time with

(01:00:22):
happy people. You gotta find something as soon as yes,
but yes, yes, because other than that, you're not really
gonna know what you're doing. And as a two time divorcee,
and I, like I said, I remember telling you this agent,
I really do not have a problem with leaving anyone.
I don't Nope, you cannot hurt me. You cannot make

(01:00:45):
a practice out of hurting me and think that I'll
stay for that. I'm not that person and I don't
want to hurt anybody. So you know there that is.
I don't know if that I've learned. I have learned
my good friends. It's been a pleasure talking to all
of you, and uh hope we sparked some conversation. Piece

(01:01:07):
of love everybody, How do you eat an elephant? One
by it Tide? If you've been keeping up with the
podcast as you should be, you know that I'm Eve's
producer on the show, and I'm here to bring you

(01:01:30):
the resources for the episode. First up is the Progressive
Love Academy run by Kenya Kid Stevens and Carl Stevens.
The Progressive Love Academy offers classes and coaching to build
better relationships. You can find out more about them and
the academy at Progressive Love Academy dot com. The other
resource is also one aga mentioned in the episode. Devot

(01:01:52):
ellis at I Am Devot on Instagram Asia. Read his
post about keeping things interesting and healthy in a monogamous relationship.
He and his wife Codine, hosts the podcast dead Ass
and have a YouTube channel dedicated to documenting their marriage
and family life. As always, I'll drop links in the
episode description. Thank you for listening to Jill Scott present

(01:02:26):
Ja dot Il the podcast. This podcast is hosted by
Jill Scott, Laias St. Claire, and agent Graydon Danceler. It's

(01:02:49):
executive producers are Jill Scott, Sean g and Brian Calhoun.
It's produced by Laya St Clair and me Eve Jeff Cooke.
The editing and sound design for this episode we're done
by Taylor Chrome. You gotta get away from their microphone
says yeah, yeah, yeah you are, Yeah, you're you can

(01:03:10):
actually just kind of sit all the way back when
this ship and you just need to sit back, all right.
That's where I'm at See we ain't that different? See
see how to table turn see how to turn that fast.
J dot Ill is a production of I heart Radio.

(01:03:33):
For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the i
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