You Can't Take it With You

In this episode Jill, Laiya, and Aja dig into the heart of what it means to build generational wealth with attorney Jennifer Norton. Jennifer walks us through the ABC’s of estate planning. Spoiler alert: estate planning is for everyone. Call 866-HEY-JILL and leave us a message with your comments on this episode!

Estate Planning Document:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/16PqnvKLK8DCmRIJaSceyIxuQwwXdbHwp/view?usp=share_link

How to start:

https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/investing/estate-planning

Jennifer’s Website:

https://www.estate-planners.org/

Jennifer’s IG:

https://www.instagram.com/nortonestateplanners/

https://www.instagram.com/thelegacystrategist/

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to j dot Il, a production of I Heart Radio. Well,
Hello everybody. M m mmmm, what a week? What a week?
When I tell you I have been working in every
possible direction, I'm half alive. But it feels good because

(00:27):
I'm doing something that I want to do. Welcome to
j dot Ill the Podcast. I'm here with my sister
friends Aga Grading dance La. That would be me learning
Evening Afternoon's so loving you, just loving learning, good learning,
good evening afternoon afternoon morning. I love you, Agent Grading Danceler.

(00:51):
I love you too, JL. I feel like people are
going to just start calling you agent grading Danceler because
it's fine. It's actually fine. It's actually fine because when
I go into the streets, people already say things that
we say on here all the time, and they definitely
give me the three namers from Supremacy for me, it's
right to the Tennessee. I get a lot of listens.

(01:13):
I get a lot of I'm sorry, I'm mixed up
your phrases. It's black women for me. Yes, yes, always
your black women. Also, here's my sister Layah sank clown. Yes.
I just like to thank you for all your hard
labor for our satisfaction. Thank you, Miss Jill Scott. I
cannot wait to see the proofs of your labor. Yes,

(01:34):
we're quite excited, baby, quite excited. We're turn off all
the work, you dude, all the work that we do, really,
all the work that we do. Everybody listening right now,
all the work that we do. It's like, you know,
there's a moment where you're like, yeah, yeah, because you
paid off your car note, or because you know, you

(01:56):
paid your mortgage, or you paid your rent, or are
able to to buy yourself something real cute and feel
good about it. You know. We, you know here in
the United States, were like super consumers. We buy shit,
that's when we do. We buy stuff. But maybe, just
maybe we might want to consider buying some other things

(02:20):
that will benefit our existence, not just our existence, dolling
for for for our family and for the next generation
of us because, as you know, this country is built
off of the backs of brown people and indigenous people.
We know these things and that money be long. There's

(02:43):
a lot of millionaires in the United States now billion
but wait, it's the billionaires that that that are blowing
my mind. Like when you can spend twenty eight billion
dollars on a business or seventy three billion dollars maybe
means that primarily like millionaires are coma broke. Wow. All

(03:07):
this time, you know, we've been like, yeah, one day
I'm gonna be a millionaire. So that's like middle class,
like exactly, damn, and I just got sad. And I
also got sad as well. It's fine as well. I'm
doing say all all of the all of the real
ratchet things I want to say in my mind. I'm

(03:28):
just gonna keep them in my mind for today because
and find me a rich person to cuss out for
no reason. That's what I'm I'm a person. There's definitely
a big chasm in in finances. Huge. Wow. Well, we
want to talk about some money, money, money, money today. Okay,

(03:50):
So so put your seatbelt on and get ready. I
would like for Agent grading Danzel to introduce our guests,
because we got one. Are you ready you ship? We
all know ship. This is a beautiful thing. Y'all are
going to hear us be as quiet, quieter than you
are used to us being in general, because we don't
know what the hell to do with this. As we're

(04:10):
talking about wealth. It's a real specific kind of wealth. Okay,
and this has been the big word across the internet
for quite some time, this little generational wealth. When I
tell you, there are times in which it makes my
scalp itch that people use it in ways that literally
make no sense. So we're here to make this make
sense for you. A quick thing before I tell you

(04:30):
who our guest is. Seventy percent of Black families do
not have a will or have any set up for
if they were to leave this earth suddenly or even
as old people. The fact of the manners that we
are not prepared for said generational wealth and multiple ways,
but today we're talking about a very specific way as

(04:53):
it pertains to estate planning. And our guest today is
Miss Jennifer Norton. Now, before starting her own practic, this
was a member of the National Network of Estate Planning Attorneys,
in which she worked for the CEO for almost five
years before she started her own firm. Her practice is
now concentrated on providing fully funded trust based because we

(05:15):
know that the Blacks don't deal in trust too often
at all. Okay, there we go, trust based estate plans
currently serving over three hundred and fifty client families, so
that means that she has the receipts and how we
are a full service estate planning firm providing wills, trusts,

(05:37):
powers of attorney, health and financial living wills, guardianship, conservativeship assistance,
probate administration something that many of us know a little
bit too much about, and strategic Medicaid qualification. Amen, ladies
and gentlemen, Ladies and gentleman, once again, a black woman,

(06:01):
because this is what we're here at the Jay dot
il y'all give it up, y'all get it up our city,
or y'all give it up for Jennifer Norton's right. You
got you plenty of time to get your pins and paper,
to get your pad out. Listen, thank you, thank you
for having me. That was great. I need to take
you on the road with me. This is what I do.

(06:24):
Just turn up. Let's get these families. Let's get these
families straight, starting with mine. Though I got excited to
hear myself speak. You know, we'll tell us how did
we get here? Because I know that's a that sounds
like a simple question, but black folks need to know
where we're at, like how do you get here? And
what is our current state? Like what are we looking

(06:44):
at here? We got here because we are the We
have the highest discretionary incomes in this country. And Ms
Jill Scott alluded to it. But we're consumers. We consume
a lot of things, and so when the death occurs,
we just are not prepared. Even though we may see things,
you know, and social media, we'll see publicity and the news.

(07:06):
We got here by sticking to the consumer mentality and
believing that the American dream is unattainable. And even I
don't even know what that means when you say that,
what is that dream is? You know what I mean?
That's a dream is different for different folks, for different reasons.
And so I think that when it comes to us
in general, we just spend. And so you look up

(07:30):
and we're just cyclical. We're on the hamster wheel and
no one is getting us off. And that's I mean,
there's no other explanation. Because we all know how to
do better, we just choose not to do better. We
know better, we just don't do better. I don't I
don't know. I mean, y'a saw Chad with Boseman. We've
seen the Franklin, We've seen I think Whitney Houston was
kind of are we too busy? Do we think we're
too busy? Because when you bring that up, I'm like, yeah,

(07:51):
there are resources, we know, Google, we know. Do we
just think we're too busy and it's not gonna happen.
I think it's also very uncomfortable talking about your demise,
like and having multiple conversations about when you which is
inevitable for all of us. And the fact that the
fact that the Blacks, the black folk, the diasporaic folk

(08:15):
tend to have to face ideas about death and their
own mortality quite a bit. Perhaps it's just all a
real massive trauma response. Who knows, but rather than you know,
at the end of the day, we could come up
with a different a lot of different reasons, that's why.
But um, I think a big way to do it
is communication because what happens is that it is when
that one person that you trust and you know says

(08:39):
to you, hey, have you done this? And then they say, well,
I did it. And because we are a definitely a
community driven people, we are a grio driven people, we
want to know from others how they did it? One
are their stories? How does that? Those are the things
that validate things for us if we see a commercial
or we see somebody tell us something. And like I said,

(09:00):
we trust base people. Now we don't tend to trust lawyers.
And you know, we might buy a little product from them,
but we don't trust them. We're a very secretive race.
If you if you're talking about black folks, yeah, we're
always talking about black folks. Okay, Well, then when when
I get with families in particular, especially the black man,

(09:21):
he's very close knit to the chest with about the finances.
I've even had families where they didn't even want to
leave the money to the women, their spouses. They left
it to their children by passing a spouse. So when
it comes to you know, you do make it both
all of you make a good point that when it
comes to our community, we don't share. My granny when

(09:41):
she died, she had a tin can under her bed,
you know what I mean, Like nobody knew you know
what was in it. You're back and not touch it,
you know what I mean, And only a few people
knew where it was. So when it comes to our community,
we are very secretive about finances. And I think that
sometimes may even have a little to do with shame,
you know what I mean, Because I feel like we

(10:02):
always feel like we should be better, and sometimes we
even portray ourselves as being more advanced and more financially
well off than we are. And then you then the
death occurs, and then everybody sees, well, she she looked
like she had it all together and exactly got barely
two pennies to rub together. And so I think that

(10:23):
that's what tends to happen, is the shame around money
and the where we thought we were supposed to be
and then we're just and sometimes unfortunately in our community,
we're just very comparison driven. Right. I think what you
said is like you're you're seeing these people aspired or
different things, and so we put on these masks. So
when you come to see me, you gotta take that
thing off, right, because I can't plan for you if

(10:45):
you don't tell me everything you have or don't have, right,
And I care either way, you know what I mean,
Because the cards are gonna come out the way they're
gonna come out, whether you tell me or not tell me.
It's just gonna be worse if you don't tell me. Yeah,
I mean, maybe maybe what you said about the American dream.
Aim is the American like illusion. People really want to
have this illusion as if they have what they believe

(11:09):
well to look like and they don't want anyone to
know they don't quite have it. But can we just
say this all so many sources of shame around this
that would feed that, right music? You got music, be like, yeah,
I got so, and so that means that I'm a
better hustler than you. That means I work harder than you.
You got folks talking about I came from nothing and

(11:29):
you can do it too, because I came from nothing.
So it's like, well, if I came from nothing and
I didn't do it, then what does that say about me?
So I think a lot of times there's a lot
of sources to the shame man. And also what is nothing?
Because we came on this zoom today we were like
we got friends. We mentioned this conversation and like, I
gotta know a state, what a trust? Like? That's the

(11:52):
rich people. So maybe we need to really talk to
about the kind of people and hop about this one too.
I ain't got no family, I've got no kids, I
ain't got nothing to leave nobody, So let's talk about
the things student, start thinking this way, you're supposed to
do that. Yeah, who is this for? That is a
perfect question, because that's actually how when I do presentations,

(12:12):
when I'm educating the public. That's the main reason I
started my own practices. I didn't see many of my
people over there. I was servicing a firmness had almost
three people, but I probably could count on two hands
how many were the same color as me, and half
of them with my people, you know what I mean.
So the thing of that is so starting this practice
helped me to get the word out because the issue

(12:33):
is people didn't think they had a states. Everybody has
in the state. If you have a bank account, a house,
a car. If you have at a minimum a bank
account and a car, you got in the state that
needs to be passed. And then if you have the
other assets, if you have life insurance, retirement plans, you
have businesses, then of course now your state is growing.

(12:55):
But everybody in this world has in the state. If
you have a bank account. Now, if you don't use
banks in Okay, then maybe you got a car and
we can get by, you know, some other avenue to
get that car transferred. But yes, we have in the state,
and then two you you lead into another. One issue
is a lot of single people think they I feel
like they know they need planning, they just don't because

(13:17):
they're just so independent. And if they don't have children,
they're thinking, well, what is my legacy? And so that
word generational wealth really gets on my nerves because most people,
and I say this all the time, everybody always talks
about it, but rarely will anyone ever achieve it right one,
because we keep having the conversation about wills and wills.

(13:37):
They pass well from one generation to the next, but
they don't preserve it for a generation that's more than
two steps away from you, because people blow through the
money in the first five or teen years. And so
when you talk about generational wealth, it's not only a
conversation that should be about finances. We should be truly
talking about legacy, like how do you want to be

(13:57):
remembered when you leave this earth? Even if you don't
have children, you could be scholarship fuzz. You paid the
way to do X y Z. You know, um act
in this world, and so you're gonna show other people
this is how you do it. And I'm gonna provide
the finances to get there because I know most people
can't get there without money. And so legacy in general

(14:20):
is it's more than about wealth. I mean, I don't
care if you put a tree, you know, in somebody's yard.
You know what I mean, you better the earth could
be better oxygen on this planet or something like that.
But when you get when you're single, your legacy is
more than just your finances. The same thing with married people.
Married people incorrectly believe that my spouse can handle all
my assets and take care of everything. They cannot. Try

(14:42):
calling Social Security, trying, you know, try calling some any
government agency or any institution in your names out on
the account. These institutions don't know if you're separated, you're
got a divorce pending, um, you're really you know, got
a protective just a if you I didn't want to
say that, they don't know. Yeah, there you go. But

(15:07):
so when it comes to your point that I'll bring
it home, is that everyone has an estate because you
have something something that you cove it. Whether someone else
covers it or not, it's a gift, it's a blessing.
Someone's gonna take it, use it and and make it,
you know, improve their life whatever it is, however large
or small it is. And then too, as a single person,
if you have no children, you still have assets, you

(15:29):
still have an estate. Now what your legacy gonna be?
Now that's internal, that's the thing you and that's my
job as an estate planning attorney to help you uncover.
How do you want to be remembered? Because I don't
I mean, I don't want to be that person. I
said this on one of my reels the other day.
You can either be blessed or cursed, and I ain't
trying to be cursed. I don't want nobody. Why did
she have no life insurance? And we gotta do this?

(15:51):
Go fund me. I don't want none of them parts
associated with my name. I'm just saying, you dropped the
Mica couples times. I appreciate girl, you did more real
talk after the break. If you don't have your your

(16:21):
pencil and paper, please y'all politics and go get it,
because I'm about to ask this question and I need
to know because this is like this a state for dummies.
Hear me, Okay, listen, that's what I'm here for. So
what is the difference between a will and a trust? Okay?
Great question. Okay, so they are both sets of instruction,

(16:43):
pieces of paper that tell your property or to go. Okay,
so let me back up, if you do nothing. We
all know that our states have statutory rules on how
we're to distribute our assets. Right, So a lot of people,
especially if you're married, you may think it all goes
to my spouse In Indiana, that's not the law. In Indiana,
if you die in an asset is less solely in

(17:05):
your name, with no joint ownership and no beneficiary designation,
our state gets fifty to the spouse to the children
when you die, right, So most people are not expecting that.
But every state is different. So wills are state specific.
So you have to check your state law about how
things are transferred when people die. And they say, well,
my state didn't go through probade, my it passed immediately,

(17:28):
We just gave a death certificate. Well, that happened because
the person's name was either jointly on the account or
listed as the beneficiary on a policy like life insurance,
retirement plans and annuities. Those are contractual agreements. Right, So
by law, the minute of death occurred, ownership transferred by
contract to that person they were just waiting on a

(17:49):
death certificate. When you get a will, a will is saying,
hold up, Indiana, I don't like you given fifty to
my kids. This our money. I wanted to go to
my bows, and then when my spouse dies, I wanted
to go to my kids. So a will is a
document that will help you alter the default. But this

(18:10):
is important that most people one will's only control things
in your individual name. So again, if it has something
jointly owned or beneficiary, the will cannot control it because
it's already contractually spoken for. But if you say you
had a straight bank account, so a lot of black
women do this, this is my spending money. Or here,
they ain't got worried about this, this account over here,

(18:30):
this this is my play money, right, the play money.
If you don't could have beneficiary and you leave it
solely in your name, then the will can control that
asset because will's only control things that are less solely
in your name, and then they only instruct the probate
court how to distribute your assets. So people say, oh,

(18:51):
he should have got a will, she should have got
a will when they died, But they started to sit
and saying why they had a court all in their business.
They shouldn't have been going through probate. You just said,
go get a will, will tell the probate court how
to disturb your assets. So the public is either miss
been misinformed or again we're just repeating things we keep hearing.

(19:12):
But wills, all wills go through probate court something. It's
no Somebody try to argue about that with me the
other day, and I said, ma'am, I paid a hunt
at thun for this degree. So I don't know who
you learn from, but I'll tell you right now. I
paid good money to tell you you are incorrect, blatantly incorrect.
So you're a girl. So funny because I told them

(19:36):
the time, I'd be like, listen my library card exactly,
it's function exactly exactly. Okay. Sometimes you gotta check people.
You gotta let them know that's right anyway. So, Jennifer,
do you think that everybody shouldn't we should kind of

(19:57):
know our little state laws when it comes to this word. Absolutely,
because in Indiana, so I I put you read it
in my bio. I do do will based planning. But
in our state, in the state of Indiana, in my practice,
I help my clients avoid probate. So the will is
just a backup because our state allows us to put

(20:18):
beneficiaries on not just your life insurance or tire plans
and nuties. Every state will allow you to do that
because that's an institutional thing, right. Most institutions will allow
you to put beneficiaries on your bank accounts, investment account.
Now there are certain cryptocurrencies and certain assets and certain
companies that may say no, we don't do beneficiaries, but
they will move to that because they don't want their
money at some other institutions, so eventually their their rules

(20:40):
are changing. But the state of Indiana will also allows
to put beneficiaries directly on real estate. It's called a
transfer on death deeds. So everybody knows the concept of
t o D and p o D. That just means
transfer on death payable on death, So you can put
those payable on death or transfer on death designations on
your bank accoun ount, on investment accounts, you can put

(21:02):
them on real estate in Indiana. Like I said, it's
called a transfer on death deed. Not every state allows
you to do a transfer on death deed, like Georgia doesn't.
I think North Carolina doesn't. Yeah, so there's a number
of states that don't allow that. And then in Indiana,
we can also put beneficiaries on our car at the
Bureau of Motor Vehicles, and we can put beneficiaries on
businesses on LLC's. Again, those things are state specific on

(21:26):
whether you can literally touch every asset and put beneficiaries.
That's one thing this good old state. It ain't good
for a lot of things, but it is one thing
they did here, right, is we can put beneficiaries on
all of our assets so that we never need to
use the will. Right because the minute the death occurs,
everything trains transfer immediately. Immediately the will becomes like a backup.

(21:47):
What if my long lost relative dies and I'm the beneficiary?
Or these class action lawsuits, So y'all saw the class
action lawsuit for perms is coming around. So if you
had a perm there's a class action lawsuit, find you
a black person to go get it, get in line
with there's a big class action lawsuit for a bunch
of the one just for me, all of them. And
so if you were to die before that class action

(22:09):
lawsuit is settled, then the then your will is on
file with the court. When the death occurs, we will
it's called spread the will of record will spread it
with the court. So when that check comes in, we
didn't know if we're gonna get something or not. The
will says give it to whomever you had listed in
your will as the beneficiary. But the goal is to
never use it intentionally at your death, and that keeps

(22:30):
us out of probate. And that explains will. I'm a
pose for the cause. And now go ahead, I know
you got something for me. We all look like we
got a question, y'all. Yeah, I blew your mind. I know.
That's my point. That's what I'm here for for for
everybody else too, doesn't know what probe it is? Can
you explain what exactly that is? Great question? Okay, So
probe is I always say when a person dies, this

(22:51):
it's like a morbid scavenger hunt because most people do
not know what you own, where is it, and what
to do with it? Right, even in married couples, most
especially in the black family, usually it's the wife that's
the strongest one with the finances, making sure the bills
are paid and all that. At least in my practice,
that's what it's it's been now again, there's outliers. So

(23:11):
whoever it is in your relationship that knows where the
finances is that the odds are, the other person does not.
So the probate course says, we just want to make
sure a person's final debts, taxes and expenses are all
wrapped up and paid prior to beneficiaries inheritance. So we
need someone to step up and be the executor or
administrator of the estate because we can't be in everybody's homes.

(23:33):
There's too many people in this country, let alone in
our state for us to run point on everybody's um
de sea slow ones of state. So someone gets appointed
in Indiana, you check your state requirements. They have to
be over the age of eighteen and not commit a felony.
And so once they're appointed, then we have to publish
notice in the local paper because the court assumes if

(23:54):
if you don't know what they owned, you don't know
who they owe either. So let's put you place. Let's
run notice in the paper that says this person has dived,
and it runs for a period called publication. So in Indiana,
publication in the newspaper has to last for ninety days
three months. Every state is different on their publication requirements.

(24:15):
Some states or six months, some states are a year.
So this is why probate can drag out in certain
states because they're longer. Indiana has a very short publication
so three months now when you run it in the paper.
Then the creditor has to file into the estate and
say I'm old of debt, show evidence of the debt,
and typically swear under panels of perjury on some type

(24:37):
of affidavit. I swear on this affidavit this is the debt.
Here's a copy. And then in Indiana, we have to
pay a filing fee to the court because of course,
like we're not working for free, so they send the
you know them, a bill. Now, the great thing about
in our state is most creditors don't pay that filing fee.
So guess what. The court will then issue a dismissal

(24:57):
here and to dismiss the case, and they're aim After
the ninety days runs, it's about thirty more days. If
they do everything right, file evidence of that, swear on affidavit,
and pay the filing fee, then they have perfected their
can their claim and thus can pursue it civilly to
collect full reimbursement. Now, we typically will try to negotiate

(25:18):
that down. We ain't got no money, it's it's very little.
We got fifty cents on we got twenty cents on
the dollar, fifty cents on the dollar, and see if
we can get that amount reduced. And a lot of
times they'll work with us, right and then we'll pay them.
They'll file satisfaction of the claim, and then at the
end of the ninety days we look to the statute
to see who to distribute it to. If you did

(25:39):
a will, then we would look to the will to
see who the beneficiaries are, and the will and the person.
When you have no plan, we typically call the person
that's doing the work the executor or administrator. When you
have a will, they're called your personal representative because you
personally selected them. But a lot of people will call
them the same thing even if there was or wasn't
a will. So if you hear personal representative, just know

(26:01):
it's the person doing the work. It ain't that glamorous
of a job, but it's a person doing the work. Now,
in in Indiana, the representative can get up to half
of the attorney's fees, so they get a little bit
of money, but it ain't a lot. And so every
state there is also different on whether the personal representative
can be compensated. They can always be reimbursed, but whether
or not they can be compensated the great question. So

(26:23):
the estate. So what happens is whenever a death occurs,
the beneficiaries and the representative are never responsible for any
of the fees that are incurred. The estate is, which
you think is kind of a conundrum because if I
don't know how much money it is, why am I
signing up, you know, to to for someone's services and
I don't know if there's enough money to pay for everything. Well,

(26:44):
a lot of attorneys will kind of you know, they'll play.
They'll work with you to figure out what's going on
and try to work with you on the fees. And
a lot of attorneys are either a billable our or
their flat feet. Usually they'll be flat feet. If it's uncontested,
meaning all of the people get along and we can
run it what's called unsupervised meaning the court doesn't have

(27:06):
to lord over us in Indiana versus if you run
it supervised, I mean, get the petition everything, petition to
sell the house, petition to distribute petition. I mean, it's
just petition, petition, petition, and that's why the fees go up.
And then most attorneys want to be billable hour when
it comes to that that approach um. But a beneficiary
is never ever responsible for the funeral costs in our
in our state, they're not responsible for the funeral. The

(27:29):
estate is so people can be reimbursed for those expenses.
And then any time someone has cut life insurance, so
this is this thing always happens to a lot of
people in our community, will purchase life insurance for the
funeral home. You gotta be careful about that because that's
a contract and it says that it's the beneficiaries, meaning
the beneficiary ain't got paid for your dag on funeral.

(27:50):
And I've literally had people not come up off the money. No,
and Mama said, use the money for the funeral, because
it's there's the check is written to them. If you're
if you're buying life insurance for a funeral, you can
irrevocably assign the policy to the funeral home so that
the funeral gets paid. And then you make whoever is

(28:12):
that contingent beneficiary, so then they get the excess, and
that makes sure your funeral gets paid. Because we as
black folks, we always do that. We give it to
the oldest. But guess what if they got siblings, they
always piss her ass off. The next thing, you know,
she keeping all the points. And the same thing goes

(28:33):
when we put people's names on bank accounts, like oh,
I'm gonna put my daughters and when the account because
she's helping me. Well, if you put her on as
an owner, it's her money when the death occurs and
she gives that death certificate. If you just put her
on as a signer, then she can just sign. But
you just gotta be careful when you ask been of
fishiary two accounts. You need to put who you want

(28:53):
to receive it all the people. If you just put
one name, you gotta be comfortable with the fact that
they may keep all the mon money. So that's you know,
that's a lot about a lot, y'all ask me one question.
But I just went I gotta tell you. I gotta
tell you what I what's on my spirit? Get out.
You guys can't can't see this, but I'm the excitement

(29:14):
in this, Okay. The excitement is it's such a scary subject. Right,
We're gonna take a quick break and then we'll be
right back. Okay, so we covered wills, can you cover

(29:41):
the trust? Okay, great questions. Okay, so y'all might have
to bring you back for apart two. Okay, but you can.
You know, I wouldn't be I wouldn't be an owner
in a business owner fight. Throw that out there, you
know a little. You ain't wrong. A trust is just
a set of instructions, just like a will. It can

(30:02):
avoid probate. I'm still an attorney, can not will avoid probate.
This is where you miss what a lot of people say,
Oh I gotta trust. I'm not going through. Yes you
will if you don't re title all of your assets
today into the name of that trust. That process is
called funding to fund your trust. So, for instance, I

(30:23):
have a trust. My bank account doesn't say Jennifer Norton.
It says my my trust, Jennifer Norton Living Trust. You
can name your trust whatever you want. That's irrelevant. People
can name trust whatever they want. But the point is
you need to put it on everything that you own.
So my investment accounts say that Jennifer Norton Living trust,
my life insurance, the beneficiary is a living trust. My

(30:43):
retiring assets, the beneficiary is coordinated with the trust. Even
my house, any real estate I own is needed in
the name of the trust, even if it has a mortgage.
A mortgage just a lean on the property. So if
I sold it, they get paid back first. But I
own my house. So your deed needs to reflect the
name of your trust. If you have a business, oh

(31:05):
I went him on show some media about this. Your
your business does not own your trust. Your interest in
your business should reflect the name of your trust. Meaning,
say all of us have a business together. How would
you feel if I told you, y'all, unfortunately this business
is in my trust. Y'all, just sit back. I'm gonna

(31:26):
put it in my trust and I'll take care of
you in No, you don't want to hear that, because
if you all have trust, then you would say no.
If we're all one fourth interest owners of this business,
then I'm gonna put my trust. Just gonna put her
twenty you see what I'm saying. Everybody's gonna put there
in the name of their respective trust, so that if

(31:46):
we sell the business in the future, when the check
comes in, they're gonna cut it not to me personally,
because when you do a trust, you still get a will,
but it's only known for its formalities. It's called a
poorrible will. If I leave something outside of my trust,
remember with no beneficiaries, no joint ownership. Remember wheels only
get things in your individual names. So if I forgot

(32:09):
my business interest, I left it in my own name,
go get it, but poured over to my trust where
all my terms are. But remember all wills go through probate.
So that's why I say, when you do a trust,
the only way to avoid probate is you have to
re title everything that you own. So the instructions in
this document the contract right, courts don't get involved in

(32:32):
contracts like life insurance and entire plans. The trust is
a contract. The contract controls those assets. Thus the course like, oh,
we don't need to get involved, just collor out of us.
If you leave something now and you got to use
that their will to get it over there, then we're
gonna pay attention. And even just as a side note,
every state has a threshold for probate because they don't

(32:54):
want say this never happens, but say you do do
a good job. And spend up all your money so
there's nothing left. You got ten dollars to split. Never happens.
But every state does have a threshold. They don't want
that ten dollar case coming in. So in Indiana prior
to July one, so last year three, if the estate
was under fifty thou dollars, they didn't want to see it.
They said, just do an alfa David, the estate is

(33:15):
too small, so it's called a probate administration as of
July one, moving forward to the president, if they've upped
it to a hundred thousand dollars, because they were tired
of seeing us with our houses being our major asset,
and we're coming through a probate for one thing because
we got a mortgage and it's and it's very you know,
the equity is barely over fifty thou dollars, So they

(33:38):
raised the bar. Every state has that bar. I believe
Illinois is like dollars. So you look at your state
to see if the estate is too small, it won't
go through probate. But you don't want to leave anything out.
You never want to leave it to chance, because who
knows what could be uncovered or what you forgot so
trust are just documents that explain where property goes, just

(34:01):
like a will. The beauty of a trust are the terms.
There are two ways to draft a trust. The first
is you can draft it so that the outcome is
very similar to a will, give the money to my
beneficiary outright free of trust. What happens when you do
a trust and you set it up a revocable living trust,
everything stays under your social Security number. So to the

(34:24):
I R S it's like you take money from one
pocket and put it in the next. Nothing changes. You
still file your same TIM forty. When you do a
revocable living trust, you're just pre positioning all of your
assets so the instructions can control it. When your death occurs,
your social Security number dies with you. And so what
the I R S says is what are you gonna
do with the assets? If you give them to a beneficiary,

(34:46):
then they're gonna put them outright free a trust. Then
they're gonna put it in their bank accounts, their investment accounts,
but all under their social Security numbers. So if they
have lawsuits, creditors, divorces, there a state is available at
creditor there are state is tied to their Social Security number.
So when you less to them. If ever you set
up a trust in the terms give the money outright,

(35:08):
free of trust to a beneficiary, whether it's left and
trust for a spouse, and then you gave it out
right to the kids, or you gave it out right
to a spouse, there's no protection they called asset protection.
The beauty of doing a trust is the way that
I do it right, which is in most um families.
Think the Rocket Fellers, they left assets in trust for people.
And what I mean by that is when the death occurred,

(35:31):
they said, I'm not gonna give it to the beneficiary outright.
I'm gonna set up little trust lets for my beneficiary.
So if I if I'm married, I have one trust
left for my spouse first, and then my spouse dies,
say I have three children, it breaks into three trust
lets for my children. But those trust lets have their
own e i N Federal Employee Identification number, just like

(35:51):
when you're setting U LLLC. So these trust lets have
their own ei N. So if the beneficiary has a lawsuit,
a creditor, a divorce, then guess what. These aren't their assets,
they're your assets. You just gave them the right to
use them for the terms that the i r S
sets up, which our health, education, maintenance, and support. Not

(36:13):
that money doesn't get penalized. That's what you're saying, right,
that money doesn't get penalized. No matter how much in
debt or anything that I'm in, it doesn't get penalized
because right it's not there, so it's able to support.
Even if your beneficiary has some massive lawsuit or massive
divorce they wiped them of their assets, then your assets
they're not there's under the law a matter of fact,

(36:33):
when it's divorced. Divorce splits marital assets, not inherited assets.
But when people receive money outright free of trust, they
mix their money with the inherited and marital money. It's
called co mingles. And the i r S and the
judges say, listen, this ain't we ain't accounting firms. We're
not doing first then last out you know why I

(36:54):
would like to tell y'all something that I knew this
because and this is this is just because and um,
I have a good cousin that she for fun since
in these um good cousin I got a good cousin
who since in these um forums, and one of them
is these rich divorced white ladies. And that's why I

(37:16):
know about that, because there was a woman in the
forum that talked about how she had gotten divorced and
found out that her husband's money was not actually his money,
and that she would not be able to draw her
alimony or anything from his income because the money he had,
the rich that he had, was coming from a family
trust to which she could not at any party. I'm

(37:43):
bringing it full circle for you. I'm needed, I needed
a really got it. So it's imperative that not only
do we get a will, but we get a trust
as well, so we could be exceptionally specific about who
gets what. I'm sorry. You all know how our families go.

(38:05):
You want to leave it to somebody. You love your kids,
you know you got that one kid. You love them.
But you know what I'm saying, and that's what happens
with us. We'll have some wealth, but it won't make
it to the grandkids or the great grands because before
you know it, someone so done gotten too a car accidental.
They doesn't marry. You know, Pookie's nephew from down the street,

(38:27):
and he doesn't took all the money like you wanna
do that, and I'm gonna take that further. I gonna
push you out a little bit more, which is then
when the kids inherit to make the money move for
generation to generation, you you put stipulations on their access.
So now they get interest only, no principle because money
typically So I don't know if I told you, but

(38:48):
I got to find my my background. I have a
finance degree from Indiana University's Color School Business. So this
is a perfect marriage my profession the money, and then
the rules, the laws and what happens is when you
leave assets and trust. Most people blow through the inheritances
in the first five or teen years. So what you
could do if money typically doubles every nine years. I

(39:10):
always take my son. He's ten, so whatever I lead
to him by the time he is twenty will have doubled.
By the time he's thirty, it will double again. So
and you can't do that, Matthe You really gotta say
it out loud. So say my state is two million dollars.
We have we have a bunch of commercial real estate.
Say my state is two million dollars. Two becomes four,
four becomes eight, eight becomes sixteen. The world's wealthiest individuals

(39:33):
didn't believe that their children are ready to run their
own finances until age forty. So guess what age my
son runs his money forty. So what you'll find is
a lot of people when they set up these trusts. So, Jill,
you made a good point. When you go ask someone
for an estate plan, you're either asking for a will
based plan, which means you only get a will, or

(39:53):
you're gonna ask him for a trust based plan that
includes a will right the poor overwill. So you're doing
either a will based plan or trust based plan. And
if you have minor children, you're always gonna name who
the guardian is and and in the will. So that's
why trust also have wills, because you gotta name the
guardian in there. But what happens is when you get

(40:14):
wills and people say, well, I can just set up
trust for your children, right one. Just know that because
the will goes through probate. That's how we fill up
the trust. If you get a will based plan, what
they call testamentary because last will and testament testimony after death.
So if you set up that testamentary trust under the will,
then you've gotta go through probate to fill it up
and then typically if you look at the will, you'll

(40:36):
see they phase the checks out at certain ages. Eight.
When they do that, they're passing the money outright free
of trust, meaning no more asset protection, no more control
over the inheritance. What you can do as just a
tip a pro tip is my son's ten, so he's

(40:57):
a minor. He cannot own things his own name. So
I set up a trust. I have trust, let's underneath
it for him. While he's under the age I pick.
You can pick whatever age you want. I picked twenty two.
While he's under the age of twenty two, I pick
who runs his money? And then at twenty to think
of he's in the back of the plane, he comes
to the front of the plane. He can become a
co pilot. He don't run it. He can work with them.

(41:19):
Because another big issue in our community is teaching financial literacy.
We're not teaching our children and so we but we're
just giving them the money and hoping that they're going
to be successful. So what you can do it would
trust to say, why when you become twenty two tied,
you can come only accounts with my trusted co trustee
that I think you should work with and for how
long I said, from twenty two to forty? Are told

(41:40):
you to forty and so, and then at forty he
can press eject on his co pilot. But he's still
in the air, right, so he's still flying towards my
map on my map, And so my map says no
principle because that money when it doubles, right, So it's
I doubled it to sixteen million by the time he
get access. If I died in the next two years.

(42:01):
You multiply that number by four percent. The stock market
typically does four percent. And why do I say the
stock market is because people when what you have, people
are gonna cash all that in. They're not gonna come
move into your house. They're not going to take over
the same investments. They're gonna cash it all in and
invest how they want to invest. So you've multiplied by
four percent, and that shows you how much income would
be produced each year. That's a lot of it. Yes,

(42:23):
that's our next episode with you. So that there you go.
So so you can do things to set your children
up for success, but you have to leave the assets
in trust. Yes, this ain't nothing that I knew coming
into this conversation when they tell you you don't want
to grow up kids, I know, right, this is the ship.

(42:44):
This the ship we'll be talking about. And I just
want everybody to know whoever reposted that meme about a
goddamn passport and not buying Jordan's as your key to
generational wealth it I'm going, yes, but I have nothing

(43:04):
to do with nothing really at the end of the day.
You know, I'm really hells no. Well, I don't mean
like I'm saying literally no, no, no, no. I agree
with you. You know when you said you get a
passport for somebody, you know that that is like world

(43:25):
travel and experience. You know, so it is, but it is,
it is valuable. But I think that people have a
tendency to give the want like give a co equivalent
or code whatever the word is. That makes stuff to
slam fair false equivalents to certain things. And it's like,
it doesn't mean it doesn't have value, you know what

(43:45):
I mean, It doesn't. Earlier, earlier in its oversimplified earlier
in the conversation, we we we admitted to and acknowledge
the fact that we are very much consumers and so
the consumer mentality is problem at it, but it doesn't
mean that by simply not consuming or and some people
will tell you, hey, because we want we're fine with

(44:06):
you consuming. We just want you to consume with a
black owned business, or this business wants to be a
part of that one percent. So just because you're spending
with a black business, is it a black business that
doesn't care about exploiting other people? So so it's very
very it's complicated. Now, what I will say is that
these are some very clear instructions about how to value
what you have, how to first of all, know that

(44:28):
everyone has something of value. That's number and number two,
how to value what you have, how to utilize what
you have in order to plan for your family generations
down the line. This is very clear. There's a lot
of detail, but it's worth it. It's worth it to
understand it so that you can actually achieve this hashtag

(44:51):
that's been running around here that nobody has actually giving
you any real clear pathway to it. More conversation after
the break, I want to flip it on your real

(45:15):
quick Jennifer. I want you to tell some of these,
some of us grown ups, what we should be having
in place for some of our parents in that way
who have the same education, Like if it's a top
three list or something, just okay, So that's great because
I like to leave people this is achievable for everybody.
This is a project. So you just need to clear

(45:36):
your mind that this is a one and done thing, right,
and then it's doable, and then you're gonna check on it.
So even just like you check on your finance, you're
gonna check on the plan. So the thing that you
need to do if you have older parents, the first
thing you want to do is you want to find
where do they own their assets? Let's avoid morbid scavenger hunts.
So I always and you're welcome to email me help

(45:58):
out of state dash planners dot org. Send me an email.
I'm happy to share with you this personal information form.
But you want to know where they bank, where their investments,
Do they have a safe deposit box, who's their primary
care physician, who has their mortgage on their property, who's
their property and casualty insurance agent? Do they have valuables
in the house that are you know, family sacred items

(46:18):
that they want to pass. So knowing where the assets are,
the financial and the non financial. We didn't talk about that.
You have one form with all these questions. Yes, man,
I love this. I would love like post this on
our social like that. Yes you, Jen said, yes, yes, yes,

(46:39):
of course I wouldn't send you. I wouldn't send you
down a dark alley with no light at the end
of the time. So I have a form. I will
send it to you all, and yes, you can post
it on whatever you want to. So this form helps
you to organize your assets. Okay, and then it also
even like I said, it gets into even who your
people are working with. Okay, to maybe go another way,

(47:00):
but I'm not gonna do it to y'all. Number two,
um is the second thing you want to have, probably
the most important, and we didn't talk a lot about this,
but we need to make sure we have powers of attorney.
More people are likely to become disabled prior to a
death than anything, so having a financial power of attorney
sometimes they call it a general durable power attorney. Durable

(47:22):
just means it last, meaning when the death occurs, y'all,
stop trying to use this power attorney. It don't work.
Durable medical life so like medicals, thing, medical emergencies and whatnot, correct,
so you can have there's sometimes the general durable will
will include the health care side of things, and sometimes
you can get a separate health care power of attorney.

(47:44):
So I'm a fan of separate separation because sometimes one
person is your money person and these people are your
compassionate persons. So you want to be able to bi
for kate the two. Don't be forced to say, oh,
I gotta pick one person and they gotta be it
at all things. No, you can separate them. So you
need to get healthcare power of attorney, financial power of attorney.

(48:05):
Some states call it that advanced healthcare directives. Same thing,
and they always always have a backup. So can I
just say this real quick. I knew of a very
nice older lady that was um the power of attorney
for a friend of hers. So her this man's children
took care of the medical power of attorney, but she

(48:28):
was the financial power of attorney. She was not a spouse,
nor was she a child. She was a friend of
the deceased because he felt that she as a person
who he knew would be capable of doing this. I
don't want to put that out there. Person ain't got
to be amen, And you know what. I just again,
did a girl here in my brain come? I can say,

(48:49):
going to row with me. But essentially the person don't
be aspirational about these people. If they don't pay their
bills on time, they okay, we're paying late fees. They
forget their bills. They not. They don't manage their own money, well,
do not put them in charge of your money. So,
like she said, this is not a message for only children.
I hear y'all, but I'm like only children like well,

(49:15):
but you know what, even if it is even if
your only child, that's a good point to Even if
your only child, you can name other people to work
with you, because it is a lot of work. Someone
becomes disabled, h you you can well, as the agent,
you can always enlist. Sometimes um powers of attorney have
what's called a delegation, so you as the agent can

(49:35):
delegate other people to work with you or be your
succession if something should happen to you. But if your
parents are still alive in the right mind, just have
them appoint to or tell you who they could, who
you could look to for help, a guide into assistance
right for the health care power of attorney. So I
guess assets power of attorney um. And then three we

(49:57):
said that at the top of the meeting communication of
those who you believe will cause trouble, I'm here to
tell you you are absolutely correct. Okay, So those people
will be drama. So it's better to have the family
meeting today. Get that drama all out on the out
on the table now, let him know who the boss is.

(50:18):
You're not in charge. Have the meeting if you feel
like you need to record it or videotaping, because it's
gonna be that much drama. You just need to have
it right now and and split it right. Even when
it comes to the assets, like if you have like
who gets Grandma's Bible, who gets the cookbooks? Who gets
the jewelry? Make make the list because people always tell
you they don't want anything. That's a lot. Everybody won't something.

(50:41):
So just make the list and share the list, and
then you'll find out real quick where the drama is
and you then you can nip that in the But
those will be my three takeaways. Are you a family okay?
Almost cut? Almost cursed? What do we already paper work through?
Oh lord? Listen, okay, listen, listen, listen to this. Okay,

(51:03):
I'm not gonna say I'm not a fan of it
because it's better to have. Somebody asked me to say
that it's better to have something, So it ain't the
worst thing to have, but it definitely ain't the best.
So if you're walking around, ma'am with Gucci Louis, you
gotta passport, and you're going to do to buy and

(51:23):
you're going to you buying new cars, and and you're
telling me you can't afford to protect those assets with
a little bit of money. You gotta pay an the
state plan and attorney. Something is wrong. You're priorities are
messed up. I like a good edge snatcher, Like we'll
say stuff like, well, I ain't gonna be here, so

(51:44):
I ain't here. You should. You spent a lifetime acquiring
the things that you have a life time. Some of
those things have our great value in resale, and some
of those things are great value for your for your legacy,
for the history of who you are. You know that

(52:07):
counts as well. We have to think about the things,
and that's the hard part to really consider what happens
after I asked just one funny, last weird old question
for me, Is there any state that a client comes
to you from and you like, oh, fun, No, this

(52:29):
is gonna be hard. Yeah, California one of the reasons
I left. One of the reasons I left taxes alone. Wow,
I live in the worst state in the my mother,
my mother just said, yes, and you're gonna say Pennsylvania next.

(52:51):
No's not bad. Yeah, he's not bad. I got my
first p A client the other day. Um, New York
is kind of but I think we can work around
it because they're New York and Florida are friendly states
because of the wealth, right, But California is the word. Yeah.

(53:12):
My mother just asked me to ask you about the
irrevocable trust definitely part two. But you know what I did, though,
Go on my social media, go to go to it's
on my law firm page, Norton Estate Planners. I do
have a page called the Legacy Strategists as well, but
the real is on Norton Estate Planners. I did Alive yesterday,

(53:32):
which would have been what's Today's day? That had been
a twenty one January twenty one, and it talks towards
the end. Someone asked me about irrevocable trust and we
went we went deep that's an hour live, so you
can fast forward if you want. But it does talk
about business owns. There's a lot of good content in there.
But we talked about irrevocable trust on my live yesterday. Mama,
thank you so many notes. I have so many you

(53:55):
don't have. This don't have to be one and done. Listen,
I'm your b at F. I'm gonna tell you exactly
what you need to know. You all need to beff
like you because you just got your second Pennsylvania. Okay,
come on, guys, six kids, I'm telling you right now.
And I know who's gonna wipe my ass, and I
know who's gonna pay the bills. Hey, that's very important.

(54:15):
And I know who's gonna be crying so bad they're
gonna be good for ship. This is this is one thing.
I guess my parting words would be when you go
into an office of an attorney, remember you have all
the power. This is your family. We're talking about everything
you own, everybody you love. Don't be rushed. If you
don't like them, leave You're never tied to this person,

(54:38):
right you need to feel good about this person and
they need to be asking you question and knowledgeable yes,
because what tends to happen is a lot of people
go in and just give up all their power. They're
just like, well, I guess, I guess I gotta do that.
Is that the only ages you got, you know what
I mean? It's like, no, no, no, this is your stuff.
And so don't lose your power when you walk into

(54:59):
that office. Where here to help you make good decisions?
And so you don't come in so stubborn. I want
this and then you you can't open your mind and
someone trying to tell you what you know, what your
options are. But but you have the power when it
comes to your family. I want to say this too
before we do wrap that. Just really again the importance
of communication people, communication when you were talking to someone

(55:21):
who gives you this service, communication with your family members,
and the conversation that you have to have with yourself.
I will never have now both of my parents have
passed on. This is not an issue that I'm dealing
with from that aspect of things. But one of the
one of the beautiful things and gifts that my mother
gave me was that she handled her business. We were
able to go in there and very easily find what
her stuff was use it for the purpose that it

(55:43):
was supposed to be there for. And also too, we
had guidance from my aunts and uncles who know legally
that's not what was in place. But when I tell you,
do it legally so that you don't have to worry
about that, not have that, because having assistance is everything.
They helped us with things that gave us feedback about
their process with their own mother, my grandmother. So that

(56:07):
kind of thing makes every a hard situation much easier.
And those of you who followed this podcast know that
my mother's death was a transformative time for me, a
very emotional time for me, and I can only imagine
how much more difficult it would have been had her
business not been in order. And this is a woman
who didn't own a home. This is a woman who
did not have a degree. This is a woman who

(56:29):
did not have a lot of wealth in money, but
yet in still there was business to attend to. And
the gratitude I have for her for making it easy
for me and my sister to simply just grieve her
and not have to go through that drama. I'm saying
that to y'all now just as a personal story. So
this that as we listen to all of these things,

(56:50):
you understand these things have personal and very real life implications.
I don't, she said, I have gotten all emotional. And
I'll tell you why that is. That is the kindest
thing that you could do for somebody that you love.

(57:11):
Like we're talking, we're talking about death, which is inevitable.
I don't mean I want to let I want to
be around for a long time. I want my mom
to be around, my family and people I love to
be around a long time. But that's not up to us,
is it right? And and because it's inevitable and not
up to us, the kindest thing that you can do

(57:32):
for somebody you love is to handle your fucking business.
I said it. Like I said it, I thank you
so much for being with us here today, Miss Jennifer Norton,
you are very well. Thank you for having so much.
We got to have you again, please because it's super important.

(57:54):
Gee whiz, and it feels it feels like a lot,
but it's not. Know what you said, Jill, that reminds
me of I saw your podcast off listen here podcasts
about love letters. The estate planet is the last love
letter you get to write. I mean literally, it's the
last one on that. Thank you so much for listening

(58:16):
to Jay dot Ilga podcast. We love to have conversation
that sparks conversation and guess what else, conversation and action.
Bless y'all, peace. How do you eat an elephant? One? By?

(58:37):
It time? Hey listeners, it's Amber the producer here this episode. Wow,
there's so much information to unpack here. I am leaving
all of Jennifer's information in the show notes as well
as her socials. We will also link the document that
she mentioned in the episode. Like I said before, there

(58:59):
is so much information to unpack here, So I'm also
going to drop a link to an article outlining ten
steps to start estate planning. But please please look up
jennifer socials. She is dropping gems on the regular. Generational
wealth means having a plan in place for the next generation.

(59:19):
Jennifer also pointed out that Black Americans are the highest
discretionary spenders. I really want to recommend making a date
with your bank accounts and really seeing where your money
is going and if there are any places you can
cut back and redistribute your income. I personally use mint
dot com to track my spending and plan my budgets.

(59:40):
It's great and it's free. Let's continue to change the
trajectory of black wealth in this country, one transaction at
a time. Hi, if you have comments on something that

(01:00:03):
he said in this episode called eight six six, Hey, Jill,
if you want to add to this conversation that's eight
six six nine five four five five. Don't forget to
tell us your name and the episode you're referring to.
You might just hear your message on a future episode.
Thank you for listening to Jill Scott Presents Jay dot Ill.

(01:00:25):
The podcast JA dot Ill is a production of I
Heart Radio. For more podcast from I Heart Radio, visit
the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows.