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November 5, 2024 55 mins

Meet Constance Zimmer, the talented and remarkable actress that you may know from shows such as UnREAL, House of Cards, and Entourage. This week we dig into why the business of show is currently a dumpster fire. From getting older to recent strikes, we really cover all the bases. It makes all sorts of sense plus she uses salty language, so it’s a win-win. EnJOY!

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Craig Ferguson Pants on Fire Tour is on sale now.
It's a new show, it's new material, but I'm afraid
it's still only me, Craig Ferguson on my own, standing
on a stage telling comedy words. Come and see me,
buy tickets, bring your loved ones, or don't come and
see me. Don't buy tickets and don't bring your loved ones.

(00:21):
I'm not your dad. You come or don't come, but
you should at least know what's happening, and it is.
The tour kicks off late September and goes through the
end of the year and beyond. Tickets are available at
the Craig Ferguson Show dot Com slash tour. They are
available at the Craig Ferguson show dot Com slash tour
or at your local outlet in your region.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
My name is Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast
is Joy.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
I talk to interest in people about what brings them
happiness on the podcast today is one of my favorite
actresses in the world and also one of the best
people I've met in Hollywood.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
I know that's a low bar.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
But she's she really is a lovely person and very clever,
and you'll know exactly what I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
Talking about when I say it is Constance Zimmer.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
I think that the fact that you look exactly the
same as the last time I saw you, which has
gotta be seven years or something, Oh.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
My god, that's just terrifying that it's been saying.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
Well, what's terrifying is you look exactly the same, which
makes me think you're probably getting collagen or bat blood
injections or something.

Speaker 4 (01:45):
Or no, I wish I haven't done anything. I'm going
to try and hold out for as long as possible.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
Do whatever you're doing. It's working, That's what I'm saying.
You look great. It's really it's really a thing.

Speaker 4 (01:57):
If I could just carry this light around with me
wherever I went, that would probably.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
Ah. The lighting is key, I mean beyond the age
of like thirty five, lighting is key. So when you
get to thirty five, you're going to have to start
thinking about all of that how I went into the
show business that you're still in.

Speaker 3 (02:14):
Mos I am. I'm hanging on by a thread though.

Speaker 4 (02:18):
I feel like, you know, the last four years have
been really fucking rough.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
It's really weird, right, I mean, I don't understand what
the fuck is going on with it at all. I've
been following this guy on Instagram, don't know if you
know me.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
I think he's handled his producer Patrick.

Speaker 3 (02:34):
I've heard, yeah, I've heard about it.

Speaker 1 (02:36):
Right, And he's fascinating because he's just like he's stayed
up on it all the time. It's like show business
isn't free fall basically the way that I understand it
and the way that I think because you're I mean,
you're a lot younger than me, obviously, but we're kind.

Speaker 3 (02:52):
Of a lot a lot.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
Younger obviously, but we were running the same time with
like Sitcom in the nineties and like right up through
twenty fifty ish. Really yeah, and then it's just it's
in free fall because of no one knows what to do,
right am I right?

Speaker 3 (03:12):
Yes, you're right.

Speaker 4 (03:13):
I mean, look, I think COVID was one thing, right,
and then I think the strike was another, and both strikes,
writers strike, actors strike, right, like, everybody is scrambling to
make up for the lost time. And so I think
the lost time and the lack of money and the

(03:35):
reality that like streaming platforms were not bringing in money,
there was too many there's too many options. So there's
definitely is this word that everybody keeps using, and I'm
sorry to use it, but the whole constricting of the basis.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
I haven't even heard. That was the constricting thing. Like
everything's getting.

Speaker 4 (03:56):
Yeah, everything's small everything's getting smaller. So it's why like
companies are folding under companies. So like you have an
ABC signature which is now under Fox. You know, you
have everything is going back to like one place instead
of one place having ten options, right, And so with that,

(04:18):
you have people getting fired, losing their jobs after thirty years.
You have the lack of jobs for actors, writers, directors.
Because the one statistic that I heard that made it
all make sense to me was at the beginning of
this year, like February March, normally there was like three

(04:39):
hundred things in production. Okay, three hundred, there were fifty geez.

Speaker 3 (04:47):
So if you look.

Speaker 4 (04:49):
At that, you go, oh, well, then there's no surprise
that all of us are in a free fall and wondering, well,
how the fuck do we come back from that? Sorry,
pardon my language.

Speaker 1 (05:02):
No, you could say fuck. In fact, I kind of
like it when you do. It makes me feel like
I'm talking to someone who has an authentic voice and
is in no way under the threat from the man.
I I wonder, have you started doing that, like like
what I'm doing now, Like I'm working for an evil
corporation called iHeart on this this podcast right now. But

(05:26):
you know, I'll probably get fired from that or they'll
fall apart or something like that. And have you started
doing a podcast or something there because everybody has to
do that now apparently.

Speaker 3 (05:36):
Well I'm so.

Speaker 4 (05:38):
I you know, I had a podcast in twenty eighteen,
maybe twenty nineteen. Look, I don't even remember when the
fuck it was, but it was. I had it for
like a year, and it was I just I couldn't
take it.

Speaker 3 (05:53):
It was so much work.

Speaker 4 (05:55):
But it was the kind where we went into a
place and we brought people into was studio, and it
was a whole setup. It wasn't, you know, like from
a chair in your library, right, It.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
Wasn't how dare you? How dare you? No? I get it.
I mean.

Speaker 1 (06:12):
It's It's an interesting thing though, because it feels to
me that the model that's beginning to emerge out of
the mist it reminds me of the late nineties early
two thousands independent film where you had to go and
find the money from. Like I remember going to the
can Film Festival over and over again and dealing with

(06:33):
horrible arms dealers on yachts out in the Bay trying
to get sell them the you know, the brattis Lavin
TV rights for another one hundred grand so you could
finance your movie and then you know, and there were
there were three places to shop in town for television, ABC,
NBC and the other one CBS. I was there for

(06:58):
a long time forgot all of it, and Fox, and
that's it. But I think that I think it's probably
time to start thinking about starting your own studio.

Speaker 4 (07:10):
Sure, well, you know, I played a studio ahead on television,
so that's crazy.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
I'm a great at it too.

Speaker 3 (07:15):
I kind of assume that I'm already in that position.
Are you?

Speaker 1 (07:20):
Did you write rebooting on Tarajia? You're going to do
it again?

Speaker 2 (07:23):
Is that a thing? Or is a rumor?

Speaker 4 (07:25):
They have been trying to reboot that show for years,
and I'm not quite sure how you do it unless
you completely flip the narrative and you place it in
today's times and you make DANEA. Gordon the lead of
the show and you show how women are running the

(07:47):
industry and how the men are trying to get back
in and become relevant.

Speaker 2 (07:55):
Is what's happening.

Speaker 3 (07:59):
That's what I'd like to believe is happening.

Speaker 4 (08:01):
I mean, there's so many more females in charge and
be studios than ever before. That is true, definitely, they
were not that many when we were doing Entourage. So
but look, I mean, those characters are iconic, and you know,
there's a whole new Entourage following because of streaming and

(08:22):
then putting out all of the seasons, you know, during COVID,
and so there's a whole new generation of fans, which
has been crazy because that show is twenty years old.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
Shut up, is it really? Yes?

Speaker 1 (08:37):
Yeah, that's really right doing the two things that age
you are at other people's kids and other people's TV shows.

Speaker 4 (08:46):
My god, I know, and I mean the show that
I that I and again I didn't just do it,
but the show Unreal that I was on.

Speaker 1 (08:57):
That was a great show. By the way, I was
going to talk about that, because that really is a
great show.

Speaker 4 (09:01):
Well, you're very kind, but it's that is on Netflix now,
right that show. We premiered that show ten years ago.

Speaker 3 (09:12):
Next year. Wow, and so I'm really excited.

Speaker 4 (09:17):
That's the one thing where I'm like, Wow, this is
amazing that you can have a show that is now
again an entire new audience, an entire new fan base
watching it. Except I'm constantly reminding people like, we dropped
that ten years ago, so I don't know how offensive

(09:39):
it's going to be today.

Speaker 1 (09:42):
I have that from Late Night because I stopped doing
Late Night ten years ago next month. Stopped doing it
ten years ago next month. And you know, people like
I have kids calling them stand up shows who are
like in their early twenties. Meant, when he's in there
watching online, they never saw it ever go out, and

(10:05):
they're like, how do you get away with saying that?

Speaker 2 (10:07):
I said, I don't I said it. I said it
fifteen years ago. That's how I got away with saying it.
It was like because the attitudes have changed so much.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
I mean, authorized, I think in particular probably suffers a
great deal from that because it was very much in
that kind of lad culture, wasn't it, And it kind
of like the zeitguy shifted hard in a different direction.
It's kind of It's an odd thing though, because you
when I look back at some of this stuff I.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
Did in late night.

Speaker 1 (10:38):
I'm like, I don't know if I would do that now,
But there was stuff that even in late night would
I would think, I'm not going to do that now.
I mean, things change. I think that you can you
can overthink it. It's like when Friends came back on
on Netflix and people were like, you know, people loved it,

(11:01):
but they had this whole kind of problem with certain
aspects of it, which I remember people have it at
the time as well.

Speaker 4 (11:10):
But let's like, I mean, this is the one thing
that I'm constantly trying to remember is that it shows
that we've progressed. It shows that we've changed, we've grown,
and so we cannot fault anybody or anything about something

(11:31):
that was okay. You know twenty years ago that's not okay.
Now Let's instead say, oh, this is great. We have
come this far and we've grown, and we know now
that this is not okay. So now from this point forward,
you know, and there's still going to be people that
make mistakes today that in ten years time we're going
to say, oh, we thought that was okay, then now

(11:53):
it's not okay.

Speaker 3 (11:53):
I mean, it's cool.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
Also, it also comes and goes.

Speaker 1 (11:57):
I mean it changes that the people this kind of
the backlash thing about people saying, you know, is there
you can't have some you know, it's all too woke,
and you go, well, it's not.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
It's not too bad to question yourself about what you do.

Speaker 1 (12:10):
I think it's I think it's all right to question
yourself and go, is this I mean, I had this thing.
Did you ever meet Peter Lasally who was my boss
and late night?

Speaker 4 (12:18):
I'm sure I did because I did your show and
so yeah, I think I.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
Did you good.

Speaker 3 (12:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:24):
Peter.

Speaker 1 (12:24):
Peter was he was like Johnny Carson's producer for thirty
five years, and he was and he produced Letterman and stuff,
so he was like the guru of late night TV.
And whenever I was, particularly early on, if I had
a kind of a particularly salty joke that I wanted
to do on the show, he would say, it's.

Speaker 2 (12:45):
Not worth it. It's not worth it.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
There's always another joke, and you're just going to make
people mad and you're going to And I kind of
feel that way.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
Now.

Speaker 1 (12:57):
I heard are you familiar with a comedian called Anthony
jessel Nick? Yes, who I am a big fan of him.
He says he does the most awful material, but he
does it in a very clever way. And he I
saw him discussing it and he said, he quoted Warhol
as like, are is what you get away with? And

(13:18):
he said, if you're not getting away with it, people
are angry at you, then you haven't done it properly.

Speaker 2 (13:23):
You know, you haven't managed to slip it in.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
You haven't managed to couch it in such a way
where you can say something awful or say something regrettable,
or portray a character.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
Who actually talks like that.

Speaker 1 (13:36):
I mean, you know what, the characters that were in authorized,
these guys exist, right, you know.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
I mean they're in Hollywood.

Speaker 1 (13:46):
They're probably less of them now, but but they are
still there.

Speaker 3 (13:50):
Oh no, they're still there.

Speaker 4 (13:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:52):
I haven't been Hollywood in a while.

Speaker 3 (13:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
I mean, do you feel like like that at the time,
because obviously not everyone is like you?

Speaker 2 (14:04):
Guy, You're not Dana. You know, you're not you know,
you don't run a reality show.

Speaker 1 (14:09):
You you know, Anthony Hopkins is not a serial killer
who eats people.

Speaker 2 (14:14):
I mean, you're playing a character.

Speaker 1 (14:16):
So at what point do you have to sanitize the
art to make it okay? For common sensibilities, even if
you're portraying someone who's not sympathetic or doesn't have sympathetic qualities.

Speaker 4 (14:29):
Yeah, you know, I think this has always been a discussion,
especially now because as actors, we are paid to play
characters that aren't aren't.

Speaker 3 (14:42):
Like us, right, unless you are.

Speaker 4 (14:45):
I mean, you could look at Julia robertson Pretty Woman
and everyone would say, oh, no, but that's exactly who
she's like. She's not a prostitute, but she feels like
she has that similar personality. No, it's not, it's like
and so I think, you know, whenever people meet me one,
they are always surprised that I'm nice, always surprised that

(15:07):
I'm not an evil bitch because those are the characters
I play on television, or they think that I actually
am a studio executive. And so I've always taken it
as a huge compliment because it makes me go, oh, well,
so you believed me so much that you thought I

(15:29):
was that person, that that person exists in real life.
And obviously a lot of characters are based on real people.
I mean, my character on Unreal was based on a
real person, right, right, And so it's constantly this there's
a problem now where actors are not allowed to portray

(15:50):
anything that they are not.

Speaker 2 (15:53):
Right, unless unless the character is Scottish.

Speaker 4 (15:57):
That doesn't matter, theller like anyone can.

Speaker 2 (16:01):
Just get an old chair, put a ball of whiskey on.

Speaker 1 (16:03):
It doesn't matter, fine, you know.

Speaker 4 (16:08):
And so I think I get it, and I understand it,
and I think, again, there's a balance, right, there's.

Speaker 1 (16:18):
Well maybe, but I also think that it's kind of
it's ridiculous. I mean, because everybody knows most people, I
would say under the age of four years old probably
have some kind of social media presence, right, so they
present some fake idea of themselves to the zeitgeist, you know,

(16:39):
once a week, twice a week, twice a day, however
much they post their content, and you know, it's like
here's me and the beach or living my best life
and all that nobody, you know, it shows himself, you know,
stubbed my toe, having a horrible time in a bad mood,
just snapped at the lady in the grocery store. Because

(17:00):
all of these things are human. I think of the
thing with Ellen DeGeneres who got like basically canceled for
not being apparently not being as I don't know Ellen DeGeneres,
but not being as nice a person off camera as
she was on camera. I'm like, well, have you met
anyone who works into your business.

Speaker 3 (17:19):
Because it's right, it can happen all the time.

Speaker 4 (17:23):
I mean, and I know in one of your episodes
of your podcast, you were saying you were talking about
meeting your your heroes or meeting the people you know
that you've looked up to, and how sometimes you get
disappointed and that's really tough, and that's happened to all
of us. But again, I think it's because entertainers and artists,

(17:47):
whether you're a writer, director, or actor, anything, everybody is
held up to a standard, whether you present as that
or not. And so you know, it's and I think
because of social media, there's.

Speaker 3 (18:03):
Another layer that everyone's adding.

Speaker 4 (18:06):
You know, everyone's adding that like my life is amazing,
and uh, it's it's tough, man, I can't. The whole
social media part of being a person in the public
eye is really daunting. And I think it's really hurting
a lot of people. And and and I also mean,

(18:26):
you know, the people who come up in social media
where it's their job, sure, you know, to be a
social media influencer, it's a lot.

Speaker 3 (18:35):
It's just a lot that we're all tearing.

Speaker 1 (18:38):
It's also it's kind of uh, it's relentless, it's unrealistic.

Speaker 2 (18:45):
And also it removes the role.

Speaker 1 (18:47):
Like when I was doing Late Night particularly, I use
this because I had one of the greatest.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
Producers that ever worked in television.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
It was Peter Sally, and I had so many ideas
that he, as a producer, would say, you know, that's
maybe not such a great idea. And I didn't do
a thing that I thought this will be a thing.
And I mean, I think that the role of the
producer a lot of time, particularly in the artistic sense,

(19:16):
was to perhaps temper the enthusiasm of the talent so
it was palatable, rather than just throwing it out there
on filter.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
But I feel like, because I.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
Wrestled with the social media thing as well, I don't
want to do it. I certainly don't want to scroll
through other people's stuff, but I feel like I'm duty
bound as a member of society, and particularly in the
business I'm into. Like people say you have to contact
your fans, and I don't. First of all, the idea
of having fans. I think that's sports teams have fans.

(19:52):
I think, you know, performers have people who enjoy what
they do, right, maybe Taylor Swift has fans.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
I get it. But yeah, have you been to see
Taylor Swift a daughter? Right?

Speaker 3 (20:01):
I do?

Speaker 4 (20:01):
She's sixteen. But no, we didn't get into the whole swifty.

Speaker 1 (20:05):
Of it all.

Speaker 3 (20:06):
All right, just wonder if I mean I appreciate her.

Speaker 4 (20:10):
I think that what she is doing for young women
is incredible. I'm but we never went to the concerts
and we didn't get into the whole brain size.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
I never connected with that either. But we'll see this
having listened, I mean, she's the real deal. She's a
dully parting level songwriter. I mean, she can really do
the job. And I think that that I kind of
love that at least someone who's that talented and clearly
that discipline then clearly works at it and tries and

(20:44):
puts the effort and it's held up as an example
rather than you know, I don't know someone who doesn't
try or it was just lucky, because I don't think
she's lucky. I think she was.

Speaker 3 (20:55):
Yeah, Oh no, she works her ass off.

Speaker 4 (20:57):
I mean I think that's obvious, and yeah, it's it's
very impressive, especially when you're constantly reminded at how young
she is and how long she's been doing it, and
she still has an incredible head on her shoulders.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
So it's very impressive because you know what it's like.
I mean, you've seen it, you've had it. I've had
it too. It's like you get a bit of fame
in it. It's it's weird what it does to your
head a lot. I was surprised that much fucked with
me a little bit because.

Speaker 3 (21:25):
How did it fuck with you? In what way?

Speaker 2 (21:28):
I felt? I think I got paranoid.

Speaker 1 (21:31):
And I think what it was is not because people
were recognizing me all the time. It was because I
thought they were recognizing me all the time. So any
kind of like if you make eye contact with someone
randomly on public transport or in a coffee shop or
in a store and you're like, oh fuck, they they

(21:53):
know me, or they're going to come over, or that.

Speaker 2 (21:55):
It just made me feel very strange.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
And I find myself walking around whearing hat and not
quite a false s beard, but nearly a false spard
in a hat, and you know, maybe a home, you know,
just something to you know, remove any I mean, it
wasn't that, but it was never that bad because I
didn't have that level of fame. But there was a
point right about when Late Night was really pumping, maybe

(22:19):
like twenty twelve something like that, it was really intense.
I did not care for it. And you for that
quite a law in your career because it comes and
goals right.

Speaker 4 (22:31):
It's like, well, look can you read that? It says
it says, I don't know who you are. It's like
a piece of art that my sister got for me
because the running joke and my household people that know

(22:52):
me is nobody ever can pinpoint who I am or
why they know me. So and it's everything I ever
wanted from my career is I wanted to be a
working actor, but I.

Speaker 3 (23:04):
Wanted to have my life.

Speaker 4 (23:05):
And you know, I was just going to New York
the other day and there was a guy behind me
and he said, you're that actress, aren't you?

Speaker 3 (23:17):
And my friend, my friend was with me, and she goes.

Speaker 4 (23:20):
Yeah, she's that actress, that one.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
You know.

Speaker 4 (23:23):
It's like that's what I get. And it's a constant
like why do I know you? I know you don't
I I know your voice? Wait, what is that show
you were on, and I'm like, seriously, I'm hmm, well,
let's see you this your this is your age bracket.
This is the show I think you would watch. And
I'm always wrong, by the way, because I always start

(23:46):
with Entourage, because Entourage was such a phenomenon, huge yss
But you know, even like the eighty year old woman
who I think like would watch Boston Legal or Newsroom
or House of Cards or whatever. I go through these
shows and the woman's like no, no, And then the
last thing I say, is is it Entourage?

Speaker 1 (24:07):
You know?

Speaker 4 (24:07):
She's like, yes, that's it. Like okay, so I stopped guessing.
I've stopped trying to get you very good.

Speaker 1 (24:13):
I don't do it like if people say to me
or you that guy, I'm like, no that I get
out all the time and I move on.

Speaker 4 (24:19):
I used to do that, but I think after like
the five hundredth time, I just it gets difficult because
they're still right here and they're still looking at you,
and then they're picking up their phone and they're like trying,
you know, and so it becomes more that I would
rather just nip it in the bud and just say
you know what I mean. But so for me, it's

(24:42):
it's never been. I get excited when someone can put
two and two together.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
I think that it's a funny kind of thing for
a night too, because you're a proper actor, like you know,
American Academy at Dramatic Art and plays and proper acting
and like a proper actor. And I think fame for
actors it's kind of especially contemporary fame works against you.
Like I was talking to Kevin Bacon a while back,

(25:08):
and he was saying that he was doing some show
where he worked really hard on it and the studio.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
We're saying, could he life tweet it? What was going on?

Speaker 1 (25:16):
He said, that's the fucking opposite of what I'm trying
to do as an actor. I'm trying to get you
to believe that I know Kevin Bacon and at the
same time saying, oh, I remember we were filming this
day and it was so cold, which takes you out
of the thing that you're trying to put yourself into.
So weird kind of push pull a little bit, because
you've got to have the social media if you're going

(25:37):
to have the job.

Speaker 3 (25:39):
Right.

Speaker 1 (25:39):
Yeah, I think it's time for you to It's really
the only thing really you have to do is you
have to create your own content.

Speaker 2 (25:46):
This is what I'm leading up to.

Speaker 3 (25:48):
Well, look and I am.

Speaker 4 (25:49):
I mean, I have a podcast right now that we're
pitching because I have like my partner who is like
my writing partner, my producing partner, my content partner. And
she is a woman that I met four years ago
during COVID. She was the writer creator of this show

(26:11):
and I was attached as the star. And so we
met for the first time over zoom and I remember
I had to go meet her outside in her backyard
because it was COVID and we couldn't be close to
each other. And you know, she was like, I don't
think this show is going to go, but I have
four other projects for you.

Speaker 3 (26:31):
And so she is like, I'm the TV version of her.

Speaker 4 (26:36):
She is the characters I play on television, right And
she's ten years older than me, and she's.

Speaker 3 (26:43):
Badass and like I go to her for everything.

Speaker 4 (26:46):
And so we decided that we wanted to do a
podcast together to help get women through midlife essentially, and.

Speaker 3 (26:58):
We're right now trying to pitch that.

Speaker 4 (27:00):
But again, podcast community constricting as well. It's so saturated
to it's so many and because of what you're saying.
Everybody's like, I have to create my own content, you know,
I've got to.

Speaker 3 (27:15):
I mean, for me, the.

Speaker 4 (27:16):
Biggest problem in the business right now is that women
there's no parts for women essentially fifty to sixty. So
like a woman in her fifties is invisible, invisible to
everyone and anything. You know, we go through an insane

(27:38):
hormonal change, we go through paramenopause and menopause, and we're like,
what the fuck is going on?

Speaker 3 (27:42):
And who are we? And what are we?

Speaker 4 (27:43):
And you know, more women leave the marketplace in their
fifties than any age group, And it's insane to think that.

Speaker 3 (27:53):
Right now.

Speaker 4 (27:54):
We are in a time where generation acts, right, So
anyone forty five to sixty is saying no, like not
any fucking more.

Speaker 3 (28:06):
Like you have some of.

Speaker 4 (28:06):
Your favorite actresses that are all in their fifties right now.
You have Halle Berry, Naomi Watts, I don't know if
Drew is in her fifties, Drew Barrymorecelma Hayek, Ava Longoria,
Tracy Ellis, Ross, Gabriel Union, Garcels, Constant Zimmer, and those
are all women that are like, what the fuck what happened? Like,

(28:30):
where are the roles that are representing women in their fifties.
If they can't be played by women in their fifties, oh,
because there aren't no parts they skip over. They go
from women in their forties on television and film to
women in their sixties. So it's you know, the content
I'm trying to create is trying to make women in

(28:52):
their fifties more relevant and represented across all categories, whether
that's in film or movies, or or podcasts.

Speaker 3 (29:00):
For God's sakes, you know, Yeah, there's.

Speaker 1 (29:03):
Too many podcasts. I think I'm probably going to stop
doing this one really.

Speaker 2 (29:07):
Yeah. Probably, I'll do it for a little bit longer,
but you know me, I'm a quitter. I'm like, yeah,
I don't know. I think I'll try something else.

Speaker 4 (29:20):
Well, So what I want to ask you about, though,
speaking of quitting, is why you went and tried Scotland
right for a while.

Speaker 3 (29:28):
And yeah, and now you're in New York.

Speaker 2 (29:31):
Yeah, I'm back. I'm back in the East Coast. I'm
in New England.

Speaker 1 (29:34):
Actually I'm in New York some of the time, but
I moved back to New England. I was in Scotland
for about like just before the pandemic and I was
there all through the Panetic back for about five or
five years. I think I was back and I really
liked it Ana, and I was kind of like, my
kids are American, my wife is an American, my life

(29:54):
is American, I'm an American. I've been an American citizen
for a long time as well, and it just it
felt like I was no aw in a weird way.

Speaker 2 (30:04):
It was like I had to go back to America.

Speaker 3 (30:07):
Right, But did you find that like you.

Speaker 4 (30:09):
Liked being in Europe essentially, like not being in the States,
Like I feel like that's my goal is to leave,
Like I want to leave LA and I would like
to Well that I.

Speaker 2 (30:22):
Did want to I would not go back to LA.

Speaker 1 (30:23):
But yeah, but I think that what happened is that,
you know, it was the weirdest thing we Megan and I,
my wife and I were watching during the lockdown. We
were watching Ozark, right, and Ozark this dark, you know,
awful things happening in this terrible but it was say

(30:44):
in the heat of the Ozarks, and we were both
watching this terribly dark show.

Speaker 2 (30:49):
Gone, I really want to go home, which.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
Is probably not what you know the creators had in
mind for the show. But we were like, oh, yeah,
this looks much more fun. And then and it kind
of that and then watching show have you watched The
The Righteous Gemstones, dynam McBride's thing, yes, which which is

(31:13):
I think his I love Dyna McBride's work, and I
think this is his opus.

Speaker 2 (31:18):
I just it's such a masterpiece of.

Speaker 1 (31:21):
You know, of a of a million different types of comedy,
but very American and I and I really it really
made me nostalgic for Americas now because people like that
only exist in the United States, and I really subscribe
to the notion of being amongst them and.

Speaker 2 (31:43):
Maybe even one of them, you know, just like.

Speaker 4 (31:46):
But do you You don't find those people in New
England though, do you?

Speaker 2 (31:50):
Oh? Sure you do? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, They're all over.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
It's not in New York you find everything. I mean,
And I think that it's funny because I think of
you as an East Coaster, but you know it, right,
you're from the West Coast, right.

Speaker 4 (32:04):
I am from the West Coast. Yeah, but I mean
I feel like I'm an East Coaster as well.

Speaker 1 (32:09):
It's just yeah, yeah, you have an East Coast boys, yes,
you know, you.

Speaker 3 (32:16):
Said an abrasive.

Speaker 1 (32:19):
Yeah, And funny and interesting and charming. That's all of
that to me is New York City, you know. I
mean it feels like that. So would you think he
would move to New York.

Speaker 4 (32:29):
Then, yeah, I would definitely. We used to live in
New York. We did like a bi coastal thing for
about six years when our daughter was young. And I
want to do like a little place in New York
and then like a house in Europe so that the
weather is bad in New York it's either too cold
or too hot or whatever, then we can just go

(32:53):
to Europe and be there and just I don't know, well, if.

Speaker 1 (32:57):
It's for weather or may I suggest Scotland is not
the place for you. If it's about you know, you're
you're from the Pacific Northwest, is am I right? I
remember this Seattle, right, So you know what it's like
to live under dark and rain all the time.

Speaker 3 (33:14):
I don't want that. I don't want that for me.

Speaker 1 (33:17):
It's not for me either. And I got sick of
that too. I was like, there's got to be at
least one nice day in the summer.

Speaker 2 (33:25):
There has to be.

Speaker 4 (33:26):
Yeah, the gray is too much. I mean, there's a
reason why they made those lights. You know they have those,
They're called sad lights and it's for like you know,
if you have lad.

Speaker 2 (33:35):
I was using it in Scotland. I used to have
to go.

Speaker 1 (33:39):
I would do this thing when I was in Scotland
and I was living there, Like in the winter, I
would go for a run on a treadmill. I would
have a sad light on and I would put on
the TV with like screensaver of like Santa Monica or something,
and I thought, this is this is this is stupid,
this is this is like there's no need to do this.
But you know, there's a lot of side love about it.

(34:00):
I'm from there, but I feel I'm American. I'm just
I'm at peace with that. You know. I'm from there,
but I'm an American for all the problems that we have,
and we have.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
Plenty, but I'm part of this. You know, this is
this is my thing.

Speaker 4 (34:16):
And you're now on tour as well, right, yeah, I
just well see that's my way of fighting what's going
on in the industry as well.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
And I was aware of that when I started doing
Late Night.

Speaker 2 (34:30):
Start.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
I hadn't done stand up for about ten years, but
when I started doing Late Night, I thought, because the
deal I made with CBS at the time is they
pretty much owned me. You know what these deals are like,
I couldn't do any other television. I can do it
unless I got their permission. But the one thing they
didn't have was live stuff. They didn't own me. For
live stuff, I could go and go back to do

(34:52):
stand up in clubs or in theaters. And I wanted
to as well, because I got a fifth that to
be owned by corporations is the most dangerous thing that
can happen to a performer, to be owned by CBS
or Netflix or whoever's fucking got you in some handcuffed

(35:14):
deal saying you're the greatest thing, and we're going to
take your part of the corporate family and these people,
will you know, cut your throat and throw you in
the East River as fast as any fucking mafioso. And
I was aware of that going in, and I thought,
stand up is autonomy, and I'm really glad because it is.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
And that's why I.

Speaker 1 (35:39):
Think that you should Constance be working on your stand
up act this time you start doing some open mics.

Speaker 3 (35:45):
I mean, I have thought about it.

Speaker 4 (35:47):
I've thought about it for years, and I think I
would get in so much trouble because my filter is
not good.

Speaker 2 (35:58):
That trouble, you know.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
I think what you're describing is a three special deal
at Netflix. You don't have to have a filter. The
audience is the filter. If they this whole fucking thing
that you have to, you know, watch what you say,
don't fuck that, let them watch what you say.

Speaker 2 (36:17):
If someone doesn't like what you say, they don't need
to watch you. And I think you're.

Speaker 1 (36:24):
A highly entertaining person with a very odd mind, and
I think I'd love.

Speaker 2 (36:28):
To see you do that stuff.

Speaker 1 (36:30):
I think it it would be an addition to I
was going to see the stand up community. But there's
no such thing as a stand up community. That's a
fucking pack of lies. That's like the cat community. Cats
are fucking social, and stand ups to pretend to be social,
I think are just lying.

Speaker 4 (36:45):
Well, I mean, and also the stand up community has changed,
I mean like night and day right. I mean, it's
a lot of people are scared, you know, and that's
not what stand up has been or should be. It
is that space where you should be able to say,
this is my shit, I'm going to put it out here,
and you're either gonna like it or you're not. But

(37:07):
we don't have that anymore because everything's filmed, Everything is
taken out of context, everything offends someone, which is by
the way, that's hasn't changed and all the Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:17):
That's always been the case. People always get angry and
stand ups. But I think that I think the idea. Look,
I think it's kind of like like the way I
always felt about show business in general and particularly in Hollywood,
which is only dangerous if you take it seriously. It's
a stupid job. And you know, for a performer, I'm

(37:39):
not talking about people who do actual work like you know,
do things like you know, like make stuff or or
you know, design things. I'm talking about, you know, people
like us who perform, you know, if you're lucky enough
to do it and be part of it. The thing
that makes it dangerous is the corporations. The thing that

(38:00):
makes it dangerous is the subscribing to the values of
a faceless group of people that only really care about
the bottom line. So you know, if, for example, I
say something that offends the sensibilities of iHeart, who are
the company that owns this, you know podcast, I Heart

(38:23):
doesn't even fucking know my name. They don't even fucking
know I'm there. But if they and anybody think I'm
going to damage the corporate brand out the door, and
then there'll be that, you know, the the cutt and
paste boilerplate thing that lawyers put together. You know. We
I heard, you know what they say about everyone when

(38:43):
and it's just it's that weird thing. I can't remember
who said this, but it wasn't. Nobody's out to get you.
It's just people are just looking out for themselves. That's
the thing. No one, I don't think anyone really wants
to destroy you. They just want to raise themselves up right,
or at least no get destroyed themselves.

Speaker 4 (39:03):
Well, I mean, you know, it's this is my problem too.
It's like we've lost the creatives. No longer have the
loudest voice. It's what you're saying. The executives and the
corporations and the people that aren't the creatives have the
louder voice, and they are the ones that decide what

(39:25):
it is entertainment or And it's hard. It's really hard
because I love this business. When I feel like I
can be creative and I can put a character out
into the world that is going to speak to people
that people are going to be able to relate to,
not necessarily like or dislike. That's not what I care about,

(39:46):
but about being relatable so that people see themselves reflected
in entertainment, right, because that is how we as a
society go, oh, I'm not alone?

Speaker 3 (39:59):
Right? No, what he ever wants to feel like they're alone.

Speaker 4 (40:01):
They're the only person that feels that way, looks that way,
talks that way, right.

Speaker 2 (40:06):
Right.

Speaker 4 (40:07):
So if we're creating a business now that feels very
like not it's not monotonous, it's like, uh, what's the
what's the no? But it's like it's more like it's safe.
Oh yes, right, it's what is that? I don't even

(40:30):
know what the fucking word is, but uh, it's just
for me. I'm I hope that when the business comes back,
it goes back to the creative. And you know, with
AI and all this stuff, you know AI not being
able to be creative. It can only make content out
of what already exists. But it cannot create original content, right,

(40:52):
It cannot create something that has not yet happened.

Speaker 3 (40:56):
So leave that to the creatives.

Speaker 4 (40:58):
Let us be the originator, let us be original, Let
us have a voice that you haven't seen twenty times over,
like the reboots, like constantly remaking the same show that
we've already seen, the voices we've already heard that.

Speaker 3 (41:11):
You know. That to me is like what we already
did that? Like, come on, you.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
Know It's it's quite interesting because that's a sure sign
that the fucking mediocrity is in charge when they start saying,
you know, the mediocrity.

Speaker 2 (41:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:36):
Word.

Speaker 2 (41:37):
It's funny though, because.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
There are sometimes I see reboots and I delighted to
see them.

Speaker 2 (41:46):
I don't know that there's that many.

Speaker 1 (41:49):
I think a reboot is kind of like you know
that the night drive to Vegas, that you think it's
been a great idea and then you get like an
hour and and you're like, this was a really fucking
stupid thing to do, and I wish we'd stayed at home.
And I think that I think there's a bit of
that you talked about the AIDOL, which I find fascinating
because it can't create original content, but it can take

(42:13):
your image, and it can take your image and put
it on anything it wants, which I find.

Speaker 2 (42:22):
I don't want to say it, yeah, alarming.

Speaker 1 (42:25):
I think I'm alarmed by I think that's the kind
of sinister thing that it can make you say things
you didn't say.

Speaker 3 (42:32):
Yep, oh, I know. And we've already seen it all.
We've seen it everywhere.

Speaker 4 (42:36):
I mean Tom Hanks, right, he's been the biggest Yeah,
the one.

Speaker 3 (42:40):
I mean, I can't.

Speaker 4 (42:41):
I just again, it's like, don't even get me started
about what people think they can get away with.

Speaker 3 (42:48):
That's my most confusing thing where I'm like.

Speaker 4 (42:51):
How did somebody honestly think you could put that out
without consent, use this person's face, put words in their
mouth and they would be okay with it?

Speaker 2 (43:02):
What?

Speaker 3 (43:02):
What rock are you living under? I don't this is
this shit I don't get at all.

Speaker 1 (43:07):
Well, it's it's interesting because I don't think. I don't
think people think beyond that. I mean, I have this,
I have this theory that no one, very few people anyway,
are the villain of their own story. Everyone's the hero
of their own sting and consider themselves the hero of
their own story and think of themselves in that. And

(43:29):
very few people out me in life. I hope that
I'm one of them. I think that I'm one of them.
Where I go, you know what, I was a deck
there and I don't say it because I was I
got caught being a deck. I bust myself on being
a fucking deck when I was a deck. And I
think it would be nice if that was more popular
that you go, you know what, I'm gonna not do that.

(43:51):
But I think when it comes to people stealing stuff
like that, I don't think they think of Like if
they take your likeness and they put you in some
kind of piece of footage that you don't want to
be part of. I don't think they think about you.
They're thinking about them. You're just a resource. I mean

(44:12):
it's almost like psych psychopathic. You know, you your image
belongs to the Internet or something.

Speaker 3 (44:19):
Right, Yeah, well it's narcissist, right.

Speaker 2 (44:22):
I think so.

Speaker 1 (44:22):
I mean it's a it's a it's a slightly overused word,
I think, narcissist. But but but you're right, I think
it is that. I think it is that that strange
kind of you know, insular thought or this belongs to
me because I I had this thought.

Speaker 2 (44:39):
And that's not because.

Speaker 4 (44:41):
Because you're a public figure, right yeah, right.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
Yeah, And I think that that's the idea. I've got
a friend, a guy called doctor Kevin Fitzgerald and Kevin
is a standout comedian, but he is also a large
animal fact and he is an expert on rattlesnakes and

(45:06):
polar bears and all sorts of crazy gritters, and he's
trying to help animals right now. I love this idea.
He's part of a group that are lobbying Congress to
patent the print of an animal. So for example, if
you wear a leopard print dress, two percent of the

(45:27):
price of that dress goes to the preservation of leopards.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
In the wild because it belongs to them.

Speaker 4 (45:33):
And I think, but does it have to be is
it real or is it even if it's a.

Speaker 1 (45:38):
Question just the reproduction, it's the design. The design belongs
to the so it's not fur, it's the you know,
the design of a zebra's skin belongs to the zebra,
so you must you know, if you have zebra skin furniture,
which I know you have a great deal of, then
that you had that part of the purchase price of
that is for or the animal that you ripped off

(46:01):
the image of. And I kind of quite like that,
And I wonder if there's a like if you take
my face and put me in a kind of sexy video.
I'm okay with that as long as you pay me,
and it's got to be it's got to be good
as well. It's got to be you know, it has
to be good.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
I don't know. I have to look like I'm in shape.
I don't want anything, you know.

Speaker 4 (46:27):
Well, I mean I think that we actors get that, right,
I mean, don't we get that if they're using our image,
we are paid for it, right, it's not just taken.

Speaker 2 (46:39):
But I get it wrong. I don't. I think that's right.
But I'm not sure.

Speaker 1 (46:45):
I mean, the image ry because the gray area is
this if you take I take a photograph of you,
just a photograph of you, I can animate it through
AI to make it say things and do things and
behave in a way.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
Which, yeah, this would be This would be the thing.

Speaker 1 (47:02):
What if the AI photograph of you was a bad
actor that would really.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
Piss you off?

Speaker 3 (47:08):
That would piss me off the yet.

Speaker 2 (47:10):
Right, And that's that's that's the thing.

Speaker 3 (47:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
Because I did with chat GBT, I did this thing
where I thought this would be a great way to
write material quickly. So I said, write me fifteen minutes
of stand up comedy in the style of Craig Ferguson,
and it gave me my it's worst piece of shit
I've ever and I felt, either I'm a really shun

(47:34):
comedian and chat GPT is the first person that's ever
had the guts to tell me, or they just you know,
they don't have it.

Speaker 2 (47:43):
And I think that might be. I'm hoping it's the
second one.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
That there's something about there's a spark of the divine
and human creativity that I don't care who your fucking
computer is, I don't think it can do that.

Speaker 3 (48:00):
Cannot it cannot? I mean, that's that's what we have.

Speaker 4 (48:03):
That's all we have as our value is that it cannot.
It cannot create original creative content, right, it can't.

Speaker 2 (48:15):
Like it's it can do a reboot.

Speaker 4 (48:18):
Yeah, it can do a reboot exactly, but this is
my point, Like, yes, it can create mediocrity, you know,
So it's everybody loves mediocrity.

Speaker 3 (48:28):
People don't like to be challenged.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
Yeah, here's the thing.

Speaker 1 (48:33):
I think I almost one hundred percent agree with you,
but I think I think not everybody loves medio.

Speaker 3 (48:40):
Okay, ninety nine point eight percent.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
Well fuck those people, because the people I'm interested in
and this is why I'll never play giant auditoriums because
I'd rather do what I want to do, you know,
I'd rather do it, you know. But there is there's
a reality to it as well. I mean, you know,
I remember people into me. You know, why would you
do a game show? I'd like, do you know how

(49:04):
much they pay people to do a game show? It's
this is also a job I have to air in
a living as well, And so it's this weird kind
of makesis like I'm not you know, I'm not someone
who gets a trust fund to you know, think about
what I or I'm not independently wealthy or wealthy enough
to just think only creatively.

Speaker 4 (49:24):
Why, yeah, you know i'd like a new car. Well,
I mean it's like I love that that is what
you'd like. I'd like a new car. I think that
this is the other thing too, right, Like everybody just
assumes that everyone in the business is rich and that
everybody that no one has financial problems, and that everybody
can decide which job to take or not to take,

(49:48):
and for a while it and I don't think that's
ever going to go away because there are the people that,
of course do exist in that world, but they are
only what five percent of the business, maybe three percent,
two percent?

Speaker 2 (50:04):
Yeah, I mean, I.

Speaker 4 (50:05):
Think it's so few of them that exist on that realm.
And so I'm always always surprised when people are like, oh,
it's so interesting. You know, you were on four shows
last year, And I'm like, yeah, because when people say
they would like me to play a part, I say
yes because I'm not in a position to say no,

(50:28):
not today, you know, And I think that that is
just something that follows us.

Speaker 1 (50:34):
They just I know, they I remember, you know, I've
said this before, but people say, and you know, they
would say when you do a red carpet thing or
some of that, and someone will say what attracted you
to this role? And You're like, well, yeah, you can't
say that though. You have to say, well, the script.
It's always the script and all that. And I go, well,
you know, because I'll tell.

Speaker 2 (50:55):
You the truth. Here's what I read of the script.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
My lines bullship bullshit bullshit, my line bush and bush
of bullshit, my line I commend I'll be done by
three o'clock.

Speaker 2 (51:04):
I'll take it, you know.

Speaker 1 (51:07):
And now I imagine a real actor like you probably
reads the whole script but there is an element of
you have to look at the financial realities. It's not
a great job, it's not a great part, but it'll
be okay. And I like the guy who is in
charge of props on that show, so it'll be fine.
And I think people forget that element too, is like, oh,

(51:29):
the guy who does one of the producers of the
show as a friend of mine, so I'll do it
even although I don't really you know that kind of thing.

Speaker 4 (51:34):
Too, right, right, we all still do favors for people.
I mean, you know I have to, Yeah, you have to.
But I think too that's the bummer as well, is
that the most creatively fulfilling parts and jobs pay.

Speaker 3 (51:49):
The least amount of money.

Speaker 4 (51:51):
You always yeah, so you know, because you're doing it
for the love of the craft.

Speaker 3 (51:55):
You aren't doing it for a paycheck.

Speaker 4 (51:58):
So a lot of times the job that are not
as fulfilling are for a paycheck to pay your bills.
And that's for me, you know, has always been the
struggle because I'd like to stay in this business. I'm
very grateful for the work I've done, the people I've
worked with, I mean, most of all of my friends

(52:20):
I have met through what I've done essentially, and you know,
but I'm also a little disheartened by it. And so
there is this like, I'm in my fifties, and do
I want to stay being disappointed by it? Do I
want to fight for it? And if I want to
fight for it, what is it that I want to
fight for?

Speaker 3 (52:39):
Right? Like better roles for women?

Speaker 4 (52:42):
Yes? Of course? Can I do that because those are
the people I play? I hope, because then people look
at me already as like, oh, you're the woman who
kicks ass and who you know tells people like it is.
And I'm like, yeah, those are the characters, you know.

Speaker 3 (52:58):
Me doing that is.

Speaker 4 (52:59):
Constant a little bit tougher because I'm I'm not I'm
not as confident that I can make a change, but
I'm gonna fucking try.

Speaker 1 (53:12):
If I wouldn't underestimate yourself there, right, I think I
have a great deal of faith that you'll be able
to carve a path through this uh area of turbulence.

Speaker 2 (53:28):
I think you'd be all right. This has been It's
been so lovely to catch up with you.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
I'm so delighted to talk to you and and and
just hear your voice and talk to you again.

Speaker 2 (53:39):
It's nice.

Speaker 1 (53:39):
You're such a lovely person. Let move east, come come eat.

Speaker 3 (53:43):
I want to we will, and we've got two more years.

Speaker 4 (53:46):
Our daughter is a junior in high school, and it's exactly.

Speaker 1 (53:49):
I've been exactly where you are. I know exactly the thing.

Speaker 4 (53:53):
So I'm gonna let We'll let her finish high school
because she loves it, and uh, and then we'll go east, hopefully.

Speaker 3 (54:01):
She said to me the other day.

Speaker 4 (54:03):
She was like, Mom, it's not every teenage kids dream
that where they go to college, their parents follow them.

Speaker 3 (54:12):
I said, that's not my dream either.

Speaker 4 (54:15):
We told you, we told you three years ago that
we were going to move to New York when you.

Speaker 3 (54:19):
Graduate high school.

Speaker 4 (54:21):
So if you happen to go to school in New York,
then you're following us.

Speaker 2 (54:25):
It's a big fucking city.

Speaker 1 (54:27):
There's plenty of room for moms and dads and kids
only exactly exactly. All right, take care of yourself. It's
lovely to talk.

Speaker 3 (54:38):
Well, thank you. It was so nice to see you too.

Speaker 2 (54:40):
I mean lovely to see you. And give my regards
to show business.

Speaker 4 (54:45):
I will if they ever call me, go bye bye bye.
One or two po
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Craig Ferguson

Craig Ferguson

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