November 19, 2024 • 63 mins
My friend KT Tunstall is a super talented genuine rock and roll star and possesses a wild, beautiful, brilliant soul. A fellow Scot, KT has released eight studio albums and has numerous awards to her name. Her album Eye to the Telescope has been certified 5x platinum. She can turn a story into a song and a song into a story and can chat all day long. This is a fucking cool episode. EnJoy.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Craig Ferguson Pants on Fire Tour is on sale now.
It's a new show, it's new material, but I'm afraid
it's still only me, Craig Ferguson on my own, standing
on a stage telling comedy words. Come and see me,
buy tickets, bring your loved ones, or don't come and
see me. Don't buy tickets and don't bring your loved ones.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I'm not your dad. You come or don't come.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
But you should at least know what's happening, and it is.
The tour kicks off late September and goes through the
end of the year and beyond. Tickets are available at
the Craig Ferguson Show dot com slash tour. They are
available at the Craig Ferguson show dot com slash tour
or at your local outlet in your region. My name
(00:45):
is Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast is Joy.
I talk to interest in people about what brings them happiness.
Of course, I love every guest I have in the podcast,
but today's a little bit different because I actually do
love love best guest. She's my friend. She's a rock star,
(01:10):
and she really is a rock star, like sometimes when
you say that you're a rock star, but she's also
a rock star. Her name is Katie Tunstall and she's gorgeous.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Enjoy this.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Tamas, who is producing the show at the moment, is
obviously he's a vampire, and he can only come into
your house if you and people forget that about vampires.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
You have to ask them across the threshold.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Absolutely invitation necessary.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Right, Okay, so you're in Saucolito.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
I'm in Saucilito, California. I can see the Golden Gate
Bridge from my little room and still the city at
a distance, which is wonderful.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Do you know Bonnie Ray? Do you know?
Speaker 3 (01:57):
I don't know her well. But when I first started out,
we were playing in Nashville and I turned we were
playing in some little dive It was like a little
five hundred kind of dive club. And I turned to
the right and Bonnie Ray is sitting side of stage
watching the show.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
You know she lives right there in Socalo.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Does she live here? I didn't realize right there? No
way funny because I did a voiceover job this morning
in a little a great local studio called Studio D.
Studio D recording or something. But he was telling me
that Bonnie ray just made a record there.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Yeah, because the last time I was in social Leedo,
I went to a shop. You know, they have shops
in sociallyto They only have shops. They have shops, and
in one of the shops they sell like little things
like art, yes, and you know a little kind of
all the things.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
That you didn't realize you needed.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
And I booked at Bonnie Rae.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
And I know Bonnie because is a very good friend
of mine who sadly died sense actually was her guitarist for.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
A long time.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Oh wow, really yeah, well it's all making sense. But yeah,
she's she's one of the greats for sure.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Oh my god, she's fantastic. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
I think YouTube would get along very well.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Actually, you get a bit of a Bonnie Raye vibe yourself, listen.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
She's she's one of the ones, one of the one
of the sets of shoulders that I stand upon for sure.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yeah, she's like rock star.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Yeah, a time when women and that area of rock
it wasn't like was pact with them.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
No, And my my own brush with that energy from
a closer relationship with Susie Quatro.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
I love what was the Canada can oh Canda.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Can remember watching the Pops when I was a kid.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
The really cool thing about Susie as well was that
she did the leather onesie and the kind of mode hair.
But she really didn't like wear makeup, you know, she
didn't really glamor. She was kind of one of the guys.
But Susie was the first ever ever female rock and
roll musician to play an instrument on stage. Really yeah,
(04:28):
And so she'd been plucked out of Detroit taken over
to the UK Mickey most Rack Studios.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
And Mickey Most two was that producer. It was kind
of like Simon Cole before Simon Cole.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Right, It's an amazing story. She was, she was, She
was in a family band and she actually played drums
in her family band with her sisters and they what
were they called the Oh God, I'd have to I'd
have to google it. I can't remember. It would have
to be four of them, whether four of them in
four sisters or three sisters. But this record, I think
(05:03):
Mickey Most gone to America's seen her and they only
wanted Susie and her dad didn't tell her, and so
for a year. She was sort of carrying on playing
in this family group, and then finally she found out
that they actually wanted her. She went over and ended
up selling fifty five million records in Europe.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Were you doing gigs with it recently?
Speaker 3 (05:28):
So I met her? She was a huge Elvis fan,
and I met her about twenty years ago doing like
an Elvis, huge Elvis tribute show in Hyde Park.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
And she's such a.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Character and so I had kind of based my second
album cover on her. I've got this It's called Drastic Fantastic.
I've got this big mirrored bass that I'm playing and
it was like, you know, sort of Susie Cottrow homage. Anyway,
she saw me after she played and she goes Katie
(06:01):
Dunstall and I was like, oh my god, well like
Susie Cortro And she goes, I'm handing you the baton
and I was like, what fucking baton?
Speaker 2 (06:13):
What are you talking about?
Speaker 3 (06:14):
And she basically handed me the invisible baton of female rock,
where she said you're the one that I see doing
what I did, and you're the one who's going to
carry it on, and we need to do something together.
And ten years later we wrote a geet's record together.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
That's crazy, you know.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
I talked on the podcast to a young American musician
who is a woman who are her family are Scottish.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
What's her name?
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Bishop Briggs?
Speaker 3 (06:46):
The name, yes, I mean, imagine me called Bishop Briggs.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
She's not really called Bishop Briggs, which.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Using it as an artist name is fantastic.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
It's very funny because Bishop Breaks, to those who don't know,
is a suburb of Glasgow.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Yeah, and I should call myself Trenent from Edinburgh.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
I have to be Cumbernauld.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Oh, mister Nold, call come I think it was called myself.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
Come Bernd Bernold, Come Bernold, because is that your born name?
Speaker 1 (07:27):
No, it's my name, Come Bernold. She was saying how
much of an influence? Because I said, you know Katie
and she said, oh my god. She and she talks
about you the way you talk.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
About Oh, come on, that's amazing, isn't that great? It's
hard to it's hard to get your head round that,
you know. Yeah, it's like I've had a few people
say it now, you know, because it's twenty years since
the first record. It's the it's the Annibal. It was
just it was the twentieth anniversary of me going on
Jules Holland last week.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
And is that was that? Suddenly? I see? Was that
the first one?
Speaker 5 (08:01):
No, it was black Horse. Black Horse was the first one. Yes,
because I always have them around, because I just so
so black Horse wasn't on my album. I wrote it
after the album was recorded. I was still a nobody.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
We hadn't released the record yet, but I was so
fucking bored of these confessional, emotional, open mic nights. I
hated them. It was just like Phoebe from Friends playing
Smellycat and crying. You know, it was awful, and I
really had I was really adamant to try and get
some rhythm into my set and and whilst trying to
(08:38):
pursue my own career, I was. I was the the
kind of guest vocalist in a Jewish drum and bass
band called Oiva Boy. It's the same record label. I'm
going to get lost because there's so much fun. There's
so many funny stories about it. But the record label
(08:59):
who won me to sign to them was an underground
Asian dance label that had Knit and Sony Who's Amazing.
They had also signed seven Seconds by So Solid Crewe
as a one single deal and they said, look to
get to know us. We have this instrumental band that
needs a vocalist and they need to write some singles.
(09:21):
And they're a ten piece Jewish klesma, drum and bassed
band called Oiva Voi, and so I joined that band,
wrote some singles, went on tour for the first time,
which was brilliant, and the sound guy I was telling
him how awful these open mics nights, and the sound
guy Moschk, was like, I've got this loop pedal in
(09:41):
my bag. We should set it up at rehearsal and
see what we can do with it. And so at
the end of rehearsal one day we set it up.
I mean, it sounded crap to start with, but he
kind of tweaked it and helped me. I'd never seen
anyone like bash the shit out of the guitar. I'd
seen them noodle and do like guitar vocals. I was like, early,
if you hit the guitar, you get a beat, and
(10:02):
it sounded like a badminton racket hitting a plastic bin.
It just sounded terrible, and Mosh was like, don't worry,
we can kind of you know, play with it, and
he got it sounding like a kick drum. And then
the scouts for Jules Holland had come to see me
rehearsing and just working out how to use this thing.
(10:23):
And I was writing black Horse and I was like
trying to work out if there was some vocals that
you could have going all the way through his song,
and I was like, I need some lyrics. I mean,
it's just I had no idea what it meant. I
was like, these are just lyrics that came into my
head to just try and get a song going. And
they saw me working that out and I was like, excellent,
(10:44):
got a song in the bag for album too. And
then I'm on tour with my mate from Orkney actually
half cousin. I just had a last blast, like go
on tour with a friend and just be in a band. Rather.
I was a bit apprehensive about being the bride final,
you know, being the front person and being known. Yeah,
so it was a bit of a last blast. Went
on this tour and then got the phone call about
(11:06):
Jules Holland that Nas the rapper had pulled out with
twenty four hours notice, and the scouts asked if I
wanted to replace and I'm like an known unemployed girl
from Scotland.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Do people in America know about Jules Holland and how
important that is for a British musician.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
I mean people certainly know more about it now. That
was the advent of YouTube and everything. But Holland was
an original member.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Of Squeeze Sure and he presented the tube.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
Well.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
It was a fantastic music was.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
A music show on British television which was ah, it
was off.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
It was crazy, it was mental.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
It was like Paula Gates on a bed with Michael
Hutchins and you.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Know the I know it was and Jules Holland and Murial.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Gray, Mumal Gray. Yeah, it was brilliant. But Jeweles then
went on to start later with Jules Holland, which has
been now running I think for thirty years. And the
premise is Musicians Amazing. And the premise is that you
you have five five or so acts in the round
with an audience that kind of around everybody on the
(12:21):
floor and it's recorded as live and everybody plays a
song each and as the rapper was meant to be
there and he pulled out and I got the gig and.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
I turned on. Was that a real change of life thing?
Was that?
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Like? Yeah, that was like shot out of a human can.
So I get down to the studio. I've never been
on TV. My album isn't I have No Experience of
this world? And it's Anita Baker, Jackson Brown and The
Cure and Embrace were on it as well. But I'm
(12:57):
just down there going, oh my god, this is mental
and I can and I and I'm thrown out the
middle of the floor three two, one go, and I'm like,
just don't don't fuck it up, you know, because the
looper thing, you've.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Got to get it right. Yeah, once it starts, that's it, right,
that's it.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
So I'm like, all right, I got the loop going,
get going. I can see Anita Baker like clapping. I'm like,
Robert Smith is smiling, like wow, you know, it's rare.
It's going good. And and then I get you know,
and and I know it's gone well. But it was
a risky thing to do. But it was my label boss.
(13:35):
He said to me, do that fucking woo who thing.
And I was like yeah, And I was like and
I said, but Shabs was my label boss. I was like,
it's not on the record. We didn't have a recording
of it. It wasn't on the album. And on the
Side of the World was the first single. I was like,
shouldn't I play the first single. He's like, no, trust
me play that whole thing.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
And I was like all right.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
And then then I morning I've won the online poll
of the favorite artist on the show Wow Against the Cure,
Against the Cure, and he a Bakker and Jackson Brown
and then on this tour I'm on at the moment,
we just played the Troubadour in Hollywood as our first.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Because Megan and I were trying to know and we
couldn't make it work. And I'm sorry, no, it was fantastic.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
We played the show and there's a little I don't
know if you've done a gig there, but there's a
little corridortairs dressing room and after the gig is great gig,
I'm getting changed and an older gentleman comes straight into
the dressing room, which is weird, like usually you've got
ten minutes or so after the show, and then I
realized it's clearly a friend of Sean's, and so you know,
(14:43):
all good, and he's got a beard and anyway comes
up to me in the dressing room and he goes, Katie,
it's Jackson Brown. Oh and I never met him that
night and I've never met him since. And I told
the story on stage age and Jackson Brown's like, I
remember that night. It was crazy.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
That's great, it was amazing.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
I love. I love when you hear about that kind
of collegiate environment that musicians can have, and they they
seem to like proper musicians, particularly I think rock musicians
that right. They don't correct me if I'm wrong, but
it seems to me that there's a kind of delight
in each other's work that I don't see so much
(15:28):
maybe with with other areas of entertainment.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
It's really funny because it's like it's like a kind
of high school musical with musicians where you often, like
at festivals or something where lots of you were there
in one place because we don't actually see each other
very often because you're touring all the time, the same
as a as a comedian, that you you don't really
(15:53):
fraternize that often.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
You know, yeah, I don't know at all.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
And then when we see each other there's this kind of.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Like you know, are we are?
Speaker 3 (16:04):
We? Are we cool? And then as soon as you
know the vibe is good, you can absolutely gush and
tell each other how much you love each other.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Does it cross boundaries?
Speaker 1 (16:17):
I mean that have you met people who are wildly
outside your musical purview that you think, I really want
to like work out you, I really want to jam
with you, I really want to play with you.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Like Jimmy, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Your little Yeah, I mean, well, what like Jewish drum
and bass bands?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
So yeah, yeah, I didn't even know.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Yeah, but I think I think the most impactful one
of those was holl of Notes. So so Daryl Hole
does this thing called Life from Daryl's House where he
gets bands. It's a bit like Jewels. He gets them
to come and jam. And I think I've seen this
and we just want and my head was blowing. I
(17:02):
was like in Darryl's place, he had a place in
London where we filmed it, and I'm playing a fucking
glockenspiel and out of touch and he's I'm like dueting
with Daryl Hall. And I ended up actually going on
the road with hol Notes a lot after that, and
that was just like it was the coolest. It was
(17:23):
so magic, isn't.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
It The weirdest thing though about getting on a show
business that you you rub up against people that you
idolized when you were young.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
I mean, you can't get away with that these days.
You can't rub up against them in the same way.
As well.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
People were rubbing up against people in the in the
nineties in a very different way.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
It was a different yea.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Now, if you rub, you rub yourself, keep it to yourself,
keep it to yourself, rub yourself and call yourself.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Can't.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
But I think the funny thing is it's like you're
still a fan of these people, you know, And I
find when I'm in those environments, You've just got to
go just fucking be cool. Just be cool, Just be cool,
just be normal. They're just musicians, just like you. They're
just musicians, you know. And not lose your ship, because
the thing is, if you lose your ship, you missed
(18:23):
the opportunity of actually connecting and having a friendship with someone,
you know. I remember when I, you know, when I
all first kicked off and I was friends with Scarlet Page,
Jimmy Page's daughter from and it was at bricks and
she and I was wearing these amazing Vivian Westward boots
right that I'd got for it, and I won that year.
(18:44):
It was brilliant year. And and she goes, do you
want to meet my dad?
Speaker 2 (18:48):
And I was like, yes, I really want to meet
your dad.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
And I'm trying to be cool. When to meet Page,
He's like, Hello'm Katie, and I'm like, oh my god.
I'm like, hi, Jimmy. I said, how are you? And
he goes, O great. He goes, I love your boots,
and I said and.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
I just went, I love you, and.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
He went anyway, nice to meet you.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Bye. Do you know That's why?
Speaker 1 (19:18):
That's why I would never let the bookers approach David
Bowie to appear on the Old Night Show.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
God, what would you?
Speaker 2 (19:25):
I don't try to keep it again.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
I know I feel the same way about a Bowie.
I never met Bowie and I would. I think I
would be a bit the same with Dylan. I just
im just like, I don't know what hell you'd say?
Speaker 1 (19:36):
You know, I know, I mean to just say you're great.
I think it's probably be weird.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
But it was brilliant when I did Jules Holland. I
met Robert Smith after the show, and he was actually
the first famous person I ever met. I'd never met
a famous person.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
First one I ever met, who Robert Smith.
Speaker 6 (19:58):
Shut the fuck up. It seemed crazy like our first
gigs were at the Edinburgh Festival. Yeah, Robert Smith. There
used to be a show.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
There used to be a show on TV in Britain
called Jukebox Jury, I remember, right, And it was like
some people would come on and they would talk about
songs like that, there's four people and you play a
bunch of news singles and people either go thumbs up
and thumb down and say whether they like them or not.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
And for somebody must have canceled.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
And I got invited on Jukebox Jury, and Robert Smith
was on juke Box Jury.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
But this is before I got sober.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Wow, so I was going ah and and I remember
it only because the single that we were judging was
unbelievable by E mf.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Right, that's how long ago it was.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Yeah, And Robert Smith didn't like it. I don't think
it's going to be a hit, and I was like, no,
it's awesome, it's going to be a hit.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
And I was drunk and all that, and.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
I still kind of feel a little weird about it,
because I don't think I was. I don't think I
was very impressive as a character in those years.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
I even I'm that impressive now, But back then I
was drunk a lot, and I.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Was I argued with Robert Smith about the value of
unbelievable by EMF.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
However, I was right, Yes, you were right.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
And I'm sure a guy like Robert Smith appreciates some
honest conviction.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
You know what, You're right?
Speaker 3 (21:40):
You know, he probally asks people fucking just agreeing with
him all the time.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Now I think about it, he probably thinks about me
a lot all the time.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
In fact, the new Cure album probably has a song
about you on it.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
He probably remembers it. And you know, that drunk Scottish
guy on juke Bow's Jury. I really liked him. He
challenged to me intellectually.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
So when I met him, it was the end of
it was the end of the show and they have
a nice little after show and he was still there,
and I remember thinking I've got to go and say
loo to him, and so say and I was asking
if they'd enjoyed making the new album they made, and
I really remember he sounded like a twenty one year
old who just started a band. He was just so
(22:25):
excited about new music, and it was just he was
just a great dude. I loved his energy about talking
about what they'd made and they you know, they'd already
beat around for twenty years or whatever.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Yeah, but I've heard you talk like that, so I've
had a lot of musicians stuff like that when you
have new stuff.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Oh yeah, well that's what you hope, that's what you hope,
you feel like. But then that kind of dried up.
My thought. I want to keep talking to him, So
what do you do? I should I should ask him
a question, you know, And I didn't really think about it.
I said, what are you up to this weekend? And
(23:07):
he goes and he goes, oh, well, we're having lunch
with my parents. I was like, but asking something else.
I said, what did I think of your hair and
your lipstick? Oh my god, this is a nightmare. And
(23:27):
he just smiles and he just goes, I don't usually
do that when I go home.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
That's very It's just the best. And oh my god,
he said. Game ended up.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
Giving me a quote for my very first press release. No, yeah,
it was. He was so sweet.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
You keep in touch.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
No, like we didn't, kind of we didn't swept numbers.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Were just going to ask if he if he had
mentioned me since since jury, about ninety eighty seven or something.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
I'll pass on a signed postcard of you next time
I see it.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Yeah, that's right, thinking of you.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Thinking of you, thinking of me, think think of you
on your tour.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
I do.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Sometimes historically it doesn't seem like my crowd or big
merch heads cheap. I've often just it's often just been
very poor. And the one thing that I found these
days that actually has been a complete turnaround is I
I do little handwritten lyric sheets and put them in
(24:38):
a little you know, frame, and people love that. So
I think. I think my crowd are much more about
music than they are about T shirts.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Well, here's what I have learned about merch Please do
tell me.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
It's that if you.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Sell mercho on the road, it's all about the design
of the shirt.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Yeah, I can't get it right.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
No, I here's the thing. Don't get involved. That's because
I think no, I say no, do this, do that.
Whenever I have an idea for a T shirt, nobody
fucking buy.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Maybe that's why I've always had the ideas and it's
never worked.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Don't get involved in your area.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Yeah, get well sadly, if Vivian Westwood is not available,
get somebody nearly as clever as Vivian Westwood to do.
Like Thomas, he farms it out to mask. My tour
manager farms it out to a merch company.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
That I must, I must get the details. I did
really want a T shirt. Do you remember everyone used
to wear the Catherine Hamnet t shirts. You know, choose.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Life, Frankie say relax exactly or hide yourself and stuff.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
I wanted. I wanted her to do a tour shirt
that said I did life in Fife. But she wouldn't
do it. Didn't didn't she didn't do requests.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
That is that where you grew ups? Yeah, yeah, it was.
It's quite a poshe very quite posh.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Well, I mean it's definitely like got a spectrum community
in Saint Andrews. But I was I was academic families
because my dad was a physicist, so my mom and
dad were English and they moved up just before well
I was. I was going to say I was born,
but I was acquired.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Because I was adopted.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
But yeah, so I think your story is so so interesting.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
It's quite a journey, for sure, it really is. But
dad was a physics lecturer and so we and I
found acaddemia was almost a bit like a religion, where
really it was sort of very hermetically sealed and it
was all just academic people hanging out with each other.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
And for sure, you know, the bitchiest motherfuckers I've ever
come across as well, is academics like their lore competitive. Yeah,
fucking teenage stand up comedians. They are unbelievable. Yeah, they've
always got a bad word to say about somebody else
in academia.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
Well, it's why I really respected my dad as well,
because he just didn't give a shit about being a professor.
All he wanted to do was research, and he was
just like, undergraduates are a waste of university money, and
he just loved researching. And I remember the one thing
that I've really taken to her that my dad explained
(27:31):
to me was one day he was really upset because
they weren't getting the funding for experiments. So all my
life growing up, Dad would go work at eight in
the morning, come home for lunch, go back to work,
come home for dinner and then take me and my
brother to his lab every evening because he had to
kind of keep checking these experiments and like he used
(27:52):
to fucking play games with liquid nitrogen with us.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
You know.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
It was benas. But he was very dedicated to the
experimental research that he was doing. He was working in
nuclear magnetic resonance a lot, which led to MRI machines
and yeah, and radiology.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Is that why you light up in the dark.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
Exactly, That's why you can always see where I am.
I mean, honestly, Dodge she start twelve people in his
department ended up getting cancer because they were just ignoring
radioactive science. But the one thing my dad said to
me was that he was trying to get funding and
he said, oh my god, they're only giving us five
years funding. You know, there's almost no point in doing it.
(28:36):
And I was like that sounds crazy, So what do
you mean and he said, well, you've got a fund
for twenty years because you're never going to find out
the answers to this research in five years. And then
I thought, so, will you know the answers to your research?
And he was like, probably not. And I was like, wait, what,
(28:58):
So you're dedicating your life to researching something that you
will probably never know the answer to. And he's like, absolutely, that's.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
It's the mark of it.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
I think that's the There's an old quote which I love,
which is is a mark of civilization and a man
that he will plant a tree that he knows he
will never stand in the shade of beautiful.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
That's exactly it, and that is an amazing mentality. Yeah,
you know that you're part of the course of exploration.
You're not a musician, not at all. Neither neither of
my parents were musical at all. They thought I was
born they were just the thing was that they got
(29:41):
me lessons. They could recognize that I was talented as
a young kid, and absolutely to their credit, they you know,
got me music teachers and came and saw me performing
at the Buyer Theater at all these plays, you know.
And then when I actually left college and said, guess what,
I'm going to be a perform forming artists, they were
like no, they were like, we thought you were going
(30:05):
to be a fleet teacher, you know, And so it
was very frightening for them because they didn't even listen
to music. They weren't music fans. There was no record
collection in my house.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
That's very odd. Is a genetic do you think my case? Yes?
Speaker 3 (30:23):
I think yeah. Apparently my my a biological father who
I never met but found out who he was through
long lost family. The ITV show was Irish. I knew
he was Irish, but apparently a very very good singer
and a bar owner, so he would just sing for everybody.
So yeah, wow, But it's always been innate. It sort
(30:46):
of feels like it feels like I mean, I'm sure
it's the same with you with comedy and comedic timing
that you just feel like you've been born bilingual.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Yeah, I can.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
It's something that I can do. I know I can
do it. I know that if I have to do it.
It's interesting because I've watched you perform in very different spaces.
I've seen you play in you know, giant fucking arenas,
and I saw you do a gig in a record
shop in London where it was twenty of us in
the shop or something that was brilliant. But you're exactly this.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
It's not.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
It's a different technique because if you're playing in a
giant show, you but you you seem to me and
I know exactly because I know how this feels. There
is a kind of an ease and a sense of
purpose that comes with the walkout on the stage. You go, now,
I'm going to do what I actually know everything from
now on, I'm going to be all right until this stops.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
I mean, I feel that really comes with time, Like
I wasn't like that at first, when it'd be funny
because when I watch myself when I'm younger, I'm like,
I look like I'm I look I seem cool, Like
I'm not really looking at the audience that much. I'm
not saying that much. I'm a total blabbermouth now and
(31:59):
I'm looking at and I know, I know looking at
I'm like, I'm shy. I'm definitely shy, and I'm I'm
I'm compensating by kind of playing it cool. And now
that I'm older, I'm just an absolute like you know,
gob shy. I'll just go on and be and I'm
just I'm talking to the crowd like I talked to you.
(32:21):
But I wanted to ask you this because I knew
we were talking today that did you do you remember
or have you ever had a relationship with this idea
of the abyss. When you're performing, you know you can
go off the edge of a cliff, that it can
fucking go horribly wrong, like you.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Actually that was your career. I think that's I think
you're talking exactly my technique. I know I know exactly
what you're talking about. Let me ask you, though, because
have you finished describing it?
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Because well, all my.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
Point being was that I believe I subscribed to that
in the early part of my career, and there was
a turning point where I realized, I think it's a myth.
I don't think it exists. And that's when and that's
when I changed my demeanor was like, I actually don't
(33:21):
think anything can really go wrong here. I think it's
up to you if it goes wrong.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
I think that's right.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
That's what It's funny that happened to me in a
very definite way.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
I have it filmed actually.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
When I was doing Late Night, because until Late Night,
I was doing very much to formulate, you know, the
life of an actor and a comedian and a writer.
And I would do this and do that, but late night,
because I had to do it every night. It was
a repetition every night. I'd be a different show.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Every night.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
I kind of began to get bored, right, and the
boredom was interesting, dangerous. Yeah, well, what I haven't told
a lot of people, and this might be the first
time I've talked about it publicly for about two years
when I was run about when I did that monologue
I did that everyone talks about when Britney Spears had
(34:18):
that meltdown, and I was. I happened to be fifteen
years sober that day, and I was like, it was
in two thousand and seven, and by the way.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Thank you for doing that. It was a really extremely
powerful thing to do.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
That was the abysto because what happened right at that time.
I so hated what I was doing. I hated it.
I hated pretending that I was doing jokes like, hey,
have you guys been watching the playoffs and stuff? I
don't watched the fucking I don't even really know what
a playoff is. And I was pretending to be someone else.
I was bored and I hated it and I was uncomfortable.
(34:53):
And then that thing happened with her that weekend, and
I felt terrible for her, but it was and I
when I went to work that morning, it was during
that period, maybe a couple of months before and it
ended a couple of months after. Everywhere I went, I
had my passport in my top pocket, so that because
(35:14):
I thought, tonight's the night they're going to fucking get
rid of me. Tonight's the night I'm not going to
be able to stand it and just fucking leave and
fuck it and go to a Bogatar or something or whatever.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
It was.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
All the time, Wow, And I think you're right.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
There comes to a point where you go you don't
have to run to escape the fucking the bonds of
your own terror.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
You don't have to fucking run. You know that you can.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
You can face it right there and find whatever fucking
happens happens.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
And I think you just you realize you're not a
visitor to a venue. Yeah, the venue is yours.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
The cry the other night I said, this is entirely collaborative,
Like this doesn't happen if you're not here, and this
doesn't happen if I'm not here. And that's the magic
is that you create this totally unique closed loop circuit
with those particular people. And I say it all the
time because I think it's really great for people to
(36:19):
remember that when you're in a venue watching someone or
you're performing.
Speaker 6 (36:24):
It's the only time in the history of the fucking
universe that those specific.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
People will ever be in a room together.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
It's like a finger the exactly.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
And you know, remembering that that experience cannot be emulated
by technology. It's it's completely protected from any possible future
because it's magical and it's and it's to be odd
and to be respected. And I think when I realize,
(37:00):
and you know, partly why I realized it was fans
would wagh afterwards to say hi, and so many of
them would say my favorite bit was when you fucked up.
I've got emotional saying that. But it's like I'd be
like what I've been like, practicing for years and trying
(37:21):
to get these songs perfect. And it's when you realize
that the perfect show is something special that didn't happen
last night. You know.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
I think that also it is the recognition of the
audience is maturity of a performer. And I'll tell you
what I'm coming to. This is something I've been messing
around with very recently. I was on stage a couple
of nights ago in Cleveland, and you know, the Agora
Theater in.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Cleveland's a big venue. This nice venue.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
I like it.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
And I was on stage and I was kind of
mucking around with the audience at the end, towards the
end of the night, and I said to them, you
guys are probably familiar with the Danish Christian existentialist philosopher
sore and Caregreguard.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
And when he said, I and I believe this to
be true.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
Only the noble of heart are called to difficulty. And
I said, it's a pain in the ass to go
out at night. It's a pain in the ass. To
get a babysitter. It's a pain and ass to get
in the bus or the trainer, get your car Parkin's
a pain in the ass. Getting a ticket and a
pain in the ass. The ticket websites are a pain
in the ass. That everything's a pain in the ass.
(38:41):
And I know it's all difficult. I know it's all that.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
And I know that money is fucking tight for a
lot of people too.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
And the fact that you did all that, you went
through all of that fucking niggaly bullshit to come here
and hang out with me. I can't tell you how
much I appreciate it, and then they waited for the
joke and I said, I don't have a joke. I
really need it. Yeah, And that was a kind of
weird moment as well. And I love that and I
like what you're described. It's true, it's different.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
And talking of Squeeze, so Julle, I don't know if
they would be a Katie Tunstall if it wasn't for Squeeze, right,
because went on, Jules Holland didn't have a recording of
that song, so the first ten thousand copies of the
record are the audio from Jules Holland.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Yeah, no idea.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
And then and then we had to rush record a
version of the song to actually get it out as
a single, and we ended up recording it in Chris
Difford's studio, who's also from Squeeze. And then fast forward,
you know, eighteen years I'm invited to go on tour
with Holland Oates and it's two openers, it's me and Squeeze,
(39:53):
So I'm on first, then Squeeze than Hollow Notes. And
this was the twenty fifth February twenty twenty, so it
was just before everything shut down. We were playing Madison
Square Gardens, and it was it was you know, and
it's just holy great. It's like that is the pilgrimage,
and it's you. It's not on your Bingo card of
(40:13):
life that you might ever get to play that place,
you know, right, So it was I was so excited.
It was a bit of a cup downtime set because
of the special venue, so I had twenty minutes opening time.
And the other thing that's amazing about that, for me
particularly is that I'm solo, so like, who the fuck
ever gets to play You'd always have a band playing
(40:34):
Madison Square Gardens, but I get to get on stage
to twenty thousand people who wouldn't come and see me
on my own and play a set for them. So
I'm just, you know, so excited. And a friend of mine,
it's total name drop is a photographer called Pete Caesar
who was Obama's photographer and Reagan's photographer. But I know
(40:56):
him through Brandy Carlisle and he does quite a lot
of music photography these days. Anyway, he's in town, so
he says he's going to come to the show, and
I go on stage and I start, I mean, it's
just phenomenal that space have you have you gigged there.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
I've never played it.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
It's an amazing space, and you know, it's in the round,
so it feels kind of quiet. Yeah, So I go
on stage. I'm there. Forty five seconds into my song,
all my gear craps out. Jeez, the lights turn off.
It is dead. I have no equipment. My guitar is
not working, but for some reason, my mic is still working.
(41:37):
And so I'm fucking on stage with my pants down
with a microphone in front of twenty thousand people.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
That I'm familiar with, like a minute into.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
The first song, and you know, the guys are kind
of running around trying to work out what's happened, and
I'm just going, Jesus Christ do I? And I thought
maybe I should sing an a cappella song, but I
don't know what would work without the music, and I
just I couldn't get my head around it quick enough.
And I'm thinking in my head all roads have led here,
(42:16):
you know, to being on one of the biggest, most
famous stages in the world in this situation, and I
just felt myself, go, fuck it, no, abyss go and
I just got on the mic and I just went
Madison Square Gardens. If the fifteen year old me could
(42:38):
see the forty seven year old me standing on stage
at Madison Square Gardens while all of her stuff fucks up,
she'd be delighted. And everybody just roared great and gave
me a massive standing oe. They go the gear working
(43:01):
and I had a phenomenal rest set and it was amazing.
It was incredibly memorable. And Chris Difford was standing side
a stage watching and I did a podcast with him
recently and I told that story and he let me
tell it and he was like, well, I know that happened, Katie,
(43:23):
because I was there watching you. And I was like, god,
I just I just blocked everything out, you know. But
Pete Susa was behind me on the stage and he
took this picture of me once I got going again,
and my hair is just flying in the air and
my muscles popping out, and it just felt like the
(43:48):
arena felt like a gladiator in the arena. What happened?
You know? What do you do when it hits the fan?
And it was funny. It was another of those moments
where I was like, there's no way anything is ever
gonna be as as confronting as that, as everything going
(44:08):
wrong at MSG.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
I've done it. I've done it.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
I came through the fire.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
But also what happens is I think, I don't know
if this will happen to you, but it certainly happened
to me. When things started to go wrong and I
enjoyed it, I started to look I started to look
for it to go wrong.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
I kind of I'm a little I'm a little guilty
of it.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
Like I I when I started Late Night, I had
I think eight or ten writers. When the time I
had finished, I had three because I was like, it
just puts some stuff on the thing and it will
work it out.
Speaker 3 (44:48):
But that's why it was so brilliant, and that's why
I talked to a lot of people over here, and
you are just their absolute number one favorite. Like they
go back and the guy who's with my on tour
just watches your the reruns all the time because it's
a really different level of it's no possible, but it's
(45:10):
not possible in a company environment.
Speaker 1 (45:12):
It's I think that it's it's when I watch it
and I wonder if a band does the same thing
to a personality like you, because you are a consummate musician.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
I've known.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
I know you, and I know you, and I've worked
with you and I love you and I know how
you work. But I also know you and I you know,
we've we've played musical instruments together with my young son,
and I know that. Yeah, but I think this is
and I've said this you. I think you think like
a stand up I think you like.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Yeah, you you.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
You have that kind of of Course you can play
in a band. Of course, you can play with other music.
You enjoy it, you're good at it. I can run
around with actors and you know my lages. I can
do all that.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
But really, when you're on your own, that's when it's Yeah.
Speaker 3 (45:59):
And I have to say, like, there's been times where
I've thought, God, it would be nice to be in
a band, wouldn't it to sort of not be really
just just not be the absolute captain of the ship
all the time and for everything to be your decision
and all the consequences of that beyond you. But I
have to be completely honest, I'm fucking very relieved on
(46:20):
a solo act.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
Yeah, I just I think that's easier on everybody, including
the musicians that you working.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
But I do because of unreasonable it's just because I do.
Speaker 3 (46:32):
Like to have control of that, of the stage and
of how it goes. And and when I'm on stage,
I'm very aware of I've got the wand I've got
the conch, you know, and you decide how it goes.
And I love being able to go, yeah, we're not
going to do that, We're going to do this.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Also, if you even look at the origin of your
your career from the story you're telling about Jewels doing
Jules this show at that time, that's fucking ballsy, you know.
Speaker 3 (47:06):
I remember I remember doing it. It was up in
the Highlands somewhere. Did a radio show not long after
that was aired, and there was an engineer and he
was such a sweet guy and I can't remember his name,
but he goes get it. I was watching the Telly,
I was watching what you were doing, and I went, oh, no, no,
what doing And he understood. There was so few people
(47:30):
who understood. They could have gone so.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
Wrong, the danger of what was going on. Yeah, but
that whatever, that is that that when you talk about
the best and you talk about the danger.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
Like one of the very first stand ups I ever
did was.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
At a punk festival in the IPA or the Ica
or something in London, and I was absolutely harangued and
booed off stage by the audience and all that. And
when I come off, because I remember Peter Capaldi was
there at the time, he was in the band I
was in at the time, he was like.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
Oh, oh dear. I was like, I was like, no,
I want to do it again.
Speaker 3 (48:16):
And it's like it's like, you know, I also can't
really perform that well, not under pressure.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
Yeah, I know what you mean.
Speaker 3 (48:25):
If I if I'm filming something and I know that
I can do it again, it won't be as good.
Speaker 4 (48:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
Yeah. Also here's another thing though, let me ask you this, because.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
Sometimes people will come backstage after you've done a show
and they'll tell you how great the show wasn't how
much they enjoyed it, and it might not be a
show that you enjoyed, yeah, as much. And I've I've
decide I've learned over the time to shut up about
that now and just thanks very much.
Speaker 3 (48:56):
I know there's a real dissonance that can happen between
you thinking you've had a great show and they were.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
Like it's nice yah.
Speaker 3 (49:04):
Or or are you having a terrible time, and then
just going Oh that was great, you know.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
I had one recently.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Yeah, I've heard performers talk about that when they're playing
in Japan.
Speaker 3 (49:15):
Oh, it's just it's it's crazy because they someone said
to me, just don't mumble, don't don't ramble, because they'll
clap for ten seconds and then it's silence, so they
go and then you're just like, oh my god, it's
completely silent, and you just start mumbling nonsense and it happened.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
But did you mumble?
Speaker 7 (49:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (49:40):
I was just like this. And a lot of Japanese
people don't speak English, so they also a lot of
the audience have no idea what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (49:48):
Did they understand where you're singing?
Speaker 3 (49:51):
I don't think good.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
Music doesn't.
Speaker 3 (49:55):
And it's another beautiful thing about music. When you travel
the world and play people, you take it for granted
that you speak English, and there's so many of these
countries that you go to, but they have absolutely they're
basically listening to the Cocktail Twins. They have no idea why,
you know, and they really a lot of audience members
(50:16):
won't know what the words mean. And you see that
the words are emotionally communicating just as powerfully as if
they did know what you were saying. It's mad.
Speaker 1 (50:31):
I went to an AA meeting with a friend of
mine from America once in Scotland and she.
Speaker 2 (50:36):
Sat next to me. She sat next to me in
the meeting, and at the end of the meeting she.
Speaker 1 (50:40):
Went, that was one of the greatest AA meetings I've
ever been to in my life.
Speaker 2 (50:44):
Didn't understand a fucking word, not a fucking word, but
somehow it worked.
Speaker 3 (50:52):
Yeah. Yeah, I made that amazing kind of osmosis through
performance of not necessarily having to. I mean, it's the
same with art, isn't it with painting or with dance,
where there's something just that isn't to do with language
(51:15):
at all.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
Right, it's and it's the thing that I you know,
I am so jealous of that doesn't exist in stand up.
If they don't speak English, I can't do it.
Speaker 3 (51:27):
I don't agree with you, though, because I'm I'm fully
of the feeling that I think stand up is king.
I think it is the hardest, most impressive art. I
think it's I just think it's beyond I don't see it.
Speaker 2 (51:44):
That way at all. I think musicianship funnily enough because.
Speaker 3 (51:48):
Let's slap each other's asses, and that's more of a
nineties thing. But the thing is, but Craig, I could
be having any kind of day. I could be feeling
like shit, or I could be feeling great. It doesn't matter.
I can get on stage and just play the cheats
(52:09):
and with stand up. There's just a level of vulnerability
where it's gonna be pre I would, unless you're incredibly
good at acting, they're gonna see where you're at.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
No, it's not like that at all. Really, No, it's
not like that at all. It doesn't matter what kind
of day you've had. It doesn't matter what kind of
madness is going on in your life.
Speaker 3 (52:37):
You can still just enter. Well.
Speaker 1 (52:39):
When you go on to the stage, you start breathing
different air and it's it's different, it's a.
Speaker 2 (52:47):
Different set of rules.
Speaker 1 (52:49):
When I towards the end of my drinking, I was
like the last six months I was My life was
in tatters, you know, my.
Speaker 2 (52:58):
Relationship was breaking up. I was fuck.
Speaker 1 (53:00):
I was homeless for all intensive purposes. But I was
doing a show in the West End. I was doing
the Rocky Horror Show in the West End of London,
which is a lot of moving parts and a lot
of things and a lot of laughs and a big
audience and and and high pressure. And every night when
I heard the dum dim and it was about to start,
(53:23):
I thought, Okay, Everin's going to be all right for
the next ninety nine.
Speaker 3 (53:27):
It's amazing that you held that ship together.
Speaker 1 (53:30):
I don't only for then. I think it's and I
think that's what I think, that's what it is. I
mean about the stand up though it doesn't. I mean,
look at some of the people that do it, and
then how terrible their lives are when they're not on
a stage.
Speaker 2 (53:46):
I mean musicians too.
Speaker 1 (53:47):
The one that always gets me is producers, people that
do all this difficult kind of work and then can't,
you know, balance their own checking account.
Speaker 2 (53:59):
It's so bizarre to me.
Speaker 3 (54:01):
I know. I was going to say about comedy that
the place that I always just find genius is the
silence in comedy and the and and just the courage
of silence. And the comedians, I really like, they're just
so comfortable in silence and they just don't need to
(54:25):
speak into the silence. And maybe that's the same with
music as well. Maybe it's the space.
Speaker 1 (54:30):
I think it's a similar thing. Robin Williams used to
always say. Robin always said it was funny you being
so little. But the Robin used to always say that
it's jazz. He said, he said, stand up is jazz,
and the way he and he always thought it was music.
I certainly nearly every stand up I know, and certainly
every stand up I like, is musical in some way.
Speaker 2 (54:51):
Yeah, they're not.
Speaker 1 (54:52):
They have a musical connection at some point. They don't
just do that. Maybe it's different now because young people
become stand up comedians in a way that they used
to become musicians.
Speaker 2 (55:04):
Yeah, it's it's kind of like to.
Speaker 3 (55:07):
Me, it's probably a wiser choice.
Speaker 2 (55:11):
I mean, I don't know the thing about that.
Speaker 1 (55:13):
For me, becoming a stand up was like becoming a
real estate agent. It was just like, well, fuck it,
you know what I mean, it'll do.
Speaker 2 (55:22):
Yeah, well.
Speaker 1 (55:24):
Yeah, well not practical more just kind of like a
second choice position.
Speaker 2 (55:29):
I would have rather been you. I wanted to be you,
but but I.
Speaker 1 (55:34):
Can't or didn't or wouldn't or didn't have the talent
for it, or didn't have the application for it, or
it just wasn't there, and I and I ended up
doing something else.
Speaker 2 (55:44):
But I wanted to be a musician.
Speaker 1 (55:46):
And I think a lot of and I've seen it
with a lot of actors and stand ups who all
really kind of want to be rock stars. Unless, be honest,
everybody wants to be a rock star, because you don't.
You don't say to someone as in a compliment, if
they do something really well, you don't say, you know,
you say oh, you're a rock star, thanks man. You
don't say, oh, you're a comedian, thanks man. You're an
(56:13):
absolute actor, thank you.
Speaker 4 (56:15):
You know voiceover voice, you're a guy that can write
really good jingles, Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (56:23):
It's not they don't do that.
Speaker 8 (56:26):
Star is I was talking about this to someone the
other day about this the the very common actor and
desire to do music, and I really relate to it
because I do think it's because they're spending a career
being given the words and told how.
Speaker 3 (56:45):
To say them. Yes, and so music is absolutely autonomous.
You get to do the performance. And the other thing is,
if you're in a movie or a TV show, you
don't get an audience fucking clapping at the end of
every scene. No, no, you know, we get we get
a huge applause every four or five minutes.
Speaker 1 (57:08):
You know what, fucking bothers with musicians is as well
as that you can go out and people will wait
for the song you wrote twenty years ago. If I
do a joke that I wrote twenty years ago, I
fucking riot in my head.
Speaker 2 (57:23):
I can't even do a joke I wrote a year ago. Yeah,
I've got There.
Speaker 3 (57:29):
Was an amazing There was an amazing there's an amazing
bit of audio on the Joni Mitchell live album Miles
of Aisles, which is a beautiful, beautiful live album I
think from the Greek Theater in or a Follywood Bowl
in LA and she's about to sing Circle Game, I think.
And she's a painter, obviously, Johnny Mitchell, you know, great
(57:51):
did a lot of her own album covers. But you know,
she's got that great voice and she just goes.
Speaker 7 (57:57):
You know, I was always really envious of painters. They
can be whatever they want. They can they can either
just stay in the attic and not show anybody their stuff,
or they can try and sell their work for a
million dollars whatever. But you know, no one ever said
to Van go hey Man, paint starry Night again.
Speaker 3 (58:26):
Brilliant. It's brilliant. There's a lot of there's a lot
of like obvious benefits to being a musician as a performer,
where gratification you know.
Speaker 2 (58:42):
You're fucking great at it. Though, I like being your friend.
I like your friend. I like being your friend that
I like being You're.
Speaker 1 (58:49):
Not uncomfortable with me being a fan, which I think
is it's advanced. But I am a fan. But that's okay,
because you can be a fan and a friend of someone.
Speaker 2 (59:01):
It's all right, it's alright.
Speaker 3 (59:03):
But I think it's a very good moment to share
with anyone watching this who might not know that our
worlds have smoothed together in a big way.
Speaker 1 (59:13):
Yeah, the musical of a movie that I did twenty
years ago, Saving Grace, which now you've written the songs
for the music.
Speaker 3 (59:26):
For the music.
Speaker 2 (59:28):
It's really good. It is really good. It is really good.
So you're going to do it in London next year.
I think that's what's going to happen.
Speaker 3 (59:35):
Yeah, it's it's all feeling very good.
Speaker 2 (59:38):
I think that's great. That means you and I are
in London.
Speaker 3 (59:41):
Yeah, it's a long time, like I've been working on
it for years and year, like maybe eight years, and
these things take a long time. And I really feel
like with fashion. Something fantastic.
Speaker 2 (59:52):
It's really cool, isn't that what we did? The preview shows?
Speaker 3 (59:55):
It's great. What was it like making that film Saving Grace?
Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
It was fine?
Speaker 3 (01:00:01):
Did you enjoy it?
Speaker 2 (01:00:02):
I loved it.
Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
It was a great brand of Brenda was so fantastic.
We had We laughed the whole time we were making
that film. And Cornwall and.
Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
That's brilliant. She and I made up. Did I think
I told you this?
Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
We made up a sea shanty when we were in Cornwall.
I can still remember it because and I will sing
it for you now. Is he's got blonde hair, a
black mustache, and a great brown bushy beard. But he's
ginger down below me boys, ginger down below.
Speaker 3 (01:00:43):
So Brenda Bleafin played a really big role in my life.
I was able to tell her actually when I met her,
and it made her cry. Was The Secrets and Lies?
Was the movie that made me look for my biology
pull mother, oh, because I just thought. I just thought
(01:01:04):
I was very close to my mom and I was
very close to my dad. But you know, you've always
got that question of like sure, I just want to
see the the other bits that make me, you know,
And and I watched Secrets and Lies, which is just
such a work of genius, and I just thought that's
an absolute ship show. And I feel like I could
(01:01:24):
handle that, and if I could handle that, then I
can probably handle whatever is it waiting for me and
and indeed I could. But it was a big it
was a big inspiration that movie.
Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
That's really that's kind of nice. Yeah, she's great. I
mean she's a lovely person and a great actress.
Speaker 3 (01:01:45):
Yeah, one of my favorites.
Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
All right, we got to go. Yeah done. Yeah, are
we seeing you soon? You're coming to our house or what.
Speaker 3 (01:01:55):
I'm going to be in. I'm in London.
Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
You've seen Meghan in London. Megan's going to London.
Speaker 3 (01:01:59):
And her old January February.
Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
Yeah, I think we'll be there.
Speaker 3 (01:02:03):
Because I'm also getting clueless on stage.
Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
You're getting the musical, which you've done the music and it's.
Speaker 3 (01:02:10):
Going to be at the Tripalgatha in the West End
from the middle of February.
Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
All right, so we'll come and see that.
Speaker 3 (01:02:15):
It's going to be fun.
Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:02:17):
That would be just an ear for saving grace, that's
all it is.
Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
Yeah, knock it off, all right, Well, bugger off, and
I thanks for doing this and I'll see I love you.
Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
I love you too. Of course I love everyone in
the podcast, but I actually do love you.
Speaker 3 (01:02:36):
You're it's actually fam proper is its family. I remember
when we first met doing Saving Grace and we were
talking to someone else and we were obviously bonding on
the Scottish thing, and we were talking about bad language
and I was like, people don't understand, and I said,
A good way, a good way to explain it is
(01:02:59):
is Craig here. He's a great count. And they're like,
well you can't, you can't know. That's that's that's how
to explain it. And you just looked at me and
he went, I like you.
Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
That's so funny. There you all right, get out of here.
Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
I'll see you in London, big love, see you soon,
all right, Love to you, bye bye.
The Craig Ferguson Pants on Fire Tour is on sale now.
It's a new show, it's new material, but I'm afraid
it's still only me, Craig Ferguson on my own, standing
on a stage telling comedy words. Come and see me,
buy tickets, bring your loved ones, or don't come and
see me. Don't buy tickets and don't bring your loved ones.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I'm not your dad. You come or don't come.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
But you should at least know what's happening, and it is.
The tour kicks off late September and goes through the
end of the year and beyond. Tickets are available at
the Craig Ferguson Show dot com slash tour. They are
available at the Craig Ferguson show dot com slash tour
or at your local outlet in your region. My name
(00:45):
is Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast is Joy.
I talk to interest in people about what brings them happiness.
Of course, I love every guest I have in the podcast,
but today's a little bit different because I actually do
love love best guest. She's my friend. She's a rock star,
(01:10):
and she really is a rock star, like sometimes when
you say that you're a rock star, but she's also
a rock star. Her name is Katie Tunstall and she's gorgeous.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Enjoy this.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Tamas, who is producing the show at the moment, is
obviously he's a vampire, and he can only come into
your house if you and people forget that about vampires.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
You have to ask them across the threshold.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Absolutely invitation necessary.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Right, Okay, so you're in Saucolito.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
I'm in Saucilito, California. I can see the Golden Gate
Bridge from my little room and still the city at
a distance, which is wonderful.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Do you know Bonnie Ray? Do you know?
Speaker 3 (01:57):
I don't know her well. But when I first started out,
we were playing in Nashville and I turned we were
playing in some little dive It was like a little
five hundred kind of dive club. And I turned to
the right and Bonnie Ray is sitting side of stage
watching the show.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
You know she lives right there in Socalo.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Does she live here? I didn't realize right there? No
way funny because I did a voiceover job this morning
in a little a great local studio called Studio D.
Studio D recording or something. But he was telling me
that Bonnie ray just made a record there.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Yeah, because the last time I was in social Leedo,
I went to a shop. You know, they have shops
in sociallyto They only have shops. They have shops, and
in one of the shops they sell like little things
like art, yes, and you know a little kind of
all the things.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
That you didn't realize you needed.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
And I booked at Bonnie Rae.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
And I know Bonnie because is a very good friend
of mine who sadly died sense actually was her guitarist for.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
A long time.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Oh wow, really yeah, well it's all making sense. But yeah,
she's she's one of the greats for sure.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Oh my god, she's fantastic. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
I think YouTube would get along very well.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Actually, you get a bit of a Bonnie Raye vibe yourself, listen.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
She's she's one of the ones, one of the one
of the sets of shoulders that I stand upon for sure.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yeah, she's like rock star.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Yeah, a time when women and that area of rock
it wasn't like was pact with them.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
No, And my my own brush with that energy from
a closer relationship with Susie Quatro.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
I love what was the Canada can oh Canda.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Can remember watching the Pops when I was a kid.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
The really cool thing about Susie as well was that
she did the leather onesie and the kind of mode hair.
But she really didn't like wear makeup, you know, she
didn't really glamor. She was kind of one of the guys.
But Susie was the first ever ever female rock and
roll musician to play an instrument on stage. Really yeah,
(04:28):
And so she'd been plucked out of Detroit taken over
to the UK Mickey most Rack Studios.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
And Mickey Most two was that producer. It was kind
of like Simon Cole before Simon Cole.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Right, It's an amazing story. She was, she was, She
was in a family band and she actually played drums
in her family band with her sisters and they what
were they called the Oh God, I'd have to I'd
have to google it. I can't remember. It would have
to be four of them, whether four of them in
four sisters or three sisters. But this record, I think
(05:03):
Mickey Most gone to America's seen her and they only
wanted Susie and her dad didn't tell her, and so
for a year. She was sort of carrying on playing
in this family group, and then finally she found out
that they actually wanted her. She went over and ended
up selling fifty five million records in Europe.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Were you doing gigs with it recently?
Speaker 3 (05:28):
So I met her? She was a huge Elvis fan,
and I met her about twenty years ago doing like
an Elvis, huge Elvis tribute show in Hyde Park.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
And she's such a.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Character and so I had kind of based my second
album cover on her. I've got this It's called Drastic Fantastic.
I've got this big mirrored bass that I'm playing and
it was like, you know, sort of Susie Cottrow homage. Anyway,
she saw me after she played and she goes Katie
(06:01):
Dunstall and I was like, oh my god, well like
Susie Cortro And she goes, I'm handing you the baton
and I was like, what fucking baton?
Speaker 2 (06:13):
What are you talking about?
Speaker 3 (06:14):
And she basically handed me the invisible baton of female rock,
where she said you're the one that I see doing
what I did, and you're the one who's going to
carry it on, and we need to do something together.
And ten years later we wrote a geet's record together.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
That's crazy, you know.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
I talked on the podcast to a young American musician
who is a woman who are her family are Scottish.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
What's her name?
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Bishop Briggs?
Speaker 3 (06:46):
The name, yes, I mean, imagine me called Bishop Briggs.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
She's not really called Bishop Briggs, which.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Using it as an artist name is fantastic.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
It's very funny because Bishop Breaks, to those who don't know,
is a suburb of Glasgow.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Yeah, and I should call myself Trenent from Edinburgh.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
I have to be Cumbernauld.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Oh, mister Nold, call come I think it was called myself.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
Come Bernd Bernold, Come Bernold, because is that your born name?
Speaker 1 (07:27):
No, it's my name, Come Bernold. She was saying how
much of an influence? Because I said, you know Katie
and she said, oh my god. She and she talks
about you the way you talk.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
About Oh, come on, that's amazing, isn't that great? It's
hard to it's hard to get your head round that,
you know. Yeah, it's like I've had a few people
say it now, you know, because it's twenty years since
the first record. It's the it's the Annibal. It was
just it was the twentieth anniversary of me going on
Jules Holland last week.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
And is that was that? Suddenly? I see? Was that
the first one?
Speaker 5 (08:01):
No, it was black Horse. Black Horse was the first one. Yes,
because I always have them around, because I just so
so black Horse wasn't on my album. I wrote it
after the album was recorded. I was still a nobody.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
We hadn't released the record yet, but I was so
fucking bored of these confessional, emotional, open mic nights. I
hated them. It was just like Phoebe from Friends playing
Smellycat and crying. You know, it was awful, and I
really had I was really adamant to try and get
some rhythm into my set and and whilst trying to
(08:38):
pursue my own career, I was. I was the the
kind of guest vocalist in a Jewish drum and bass
band called Oiva Boy. It's the same record label. I'm
going to get lost because there's so much fun. There's
so many funny stories about it. But the record label
(08:59):
who won me to sign to them was an underground
Asian dance label that had Knit and Sony Who's Amazing.
They had also signed seven Seconds by So Solid Crewe
as a one single deal and they said, look to
get to know us. We have this instrumental band that
needs a vocalist and they need to write some singles.
(09:21):
And they're a ten piece Jewish klesma, drum and bassed
band called Oiva Voi, and so I joined that band,
wrote some singles, went on tour for the first time,
which was brilliant, and the sound guy I was telling
him how awful these open mics nights, and the sound
guy Moschk, was like, I've got this loop pedal in
(09:41):
my bag. We should set it up at rehearsal and
see what we can do with it. And so at
the end of rehearsal one day we set it up.
I mean, it sounded crap to start with, but he
kind of tweaked it and helped me. I'd never seen
anyone like bash the shit out of the guitar. I'd
seen them noodle and do like guitar vocals. I was like, early,
if you hit the guitar, you get a beat, and
(10:02):
it sounded like a badminton racket hitting a plastic bin.
It just sounded terrible, and Mosh was like, don't worry,
we can kind of you know, play with it, and
he got it sounding like a kick drum. And then
the scouts for Jules Holland had come to see me
rehearsing and just working out how to use this thing.
(10:23):
And I was writing black Horse and I was like
trying to work out if there was some vocals that
you could have going all the way through his song,
and I was like, I need some lyrics. I mean,
it's just I had no idea what it meant. I
was like, these are just lyrics that came into my
head to just try and get a song going. And
they saw me working that out and I was like, excellent,
(10:44):
got a song in the bag for album too. And
then I'm on tour with my mate from Orkney actually
half cousin. I just had a last blast, like go
on tour with a friend and just be in a band. Rather.
I was a bit apprehensive about being the bride final,
you know, being the front person and being known. Yeah,
so it was a bit of a last blast. Went
on this tour and then got the phone call about
(11:06):
Jules Holland that Nas the rapper had pulled out with
twenty four hours notice, and the scouts asked if I
wanted to replace and I'm like an known unemployed girl
from Scotland.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Do people in America know about Jules Holland and how
important that is for a British musician.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
I mean people certainly know more about it now. That
was the advent of YouTube and everything. But Holland was
an original member.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Of Squeeze Sure and he presented the tube.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
Well.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
It was a fantastic music was.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
A music show on British television which was ah, it
was off.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
It was crazy, it was mental.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
It was like Paula Gates on a bed with Michael
Hutchins and you.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Know the I know it was and Jules Holland and Murial.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Gray, Mumal Gray. Yeah, it was brilliant. But Jeweles then
went on to start later with Jules Holland, which has
been now running I think for thirty years. And the
premise is Musicians Amazing. And the premise is that you
you have five five or so acts in the round
with an audience that kind of around everybody on the
(12:21):
floor and it's recorded as live and everybody plays a
song each and as the rapper was meant to be
there and he pulled out and I got the gig and.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
I turned on. Was that a real change of life thing?
Was that?
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Like? Yeah, that was like shot out of a human can.
So I get down to the studio. I've never been
on TV. My album isn't I have No Experience of
this world? And it's Anita Baker, Jackson Brown and The
Cure and Embrace were on it as well. But I'm
(12:57):
just down there going, oh my god, this is mental
and I can and I and I'm thrown out the
middle of the floor three two, one go, and I'm like,
just don't don't fuck it up, you know, because the
looper thing, you've.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Got to get it right. Yeah, once it starts, that's it, right,
that's it.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
So I'm like, all right, I got the loop going,
get going. I can see Anita Baker like clapping. I'm like,
Robert Smith is smiling, like wow, you know, it's rare.
It's going good. And and then I get you know,
and and I know it's gone well. But it was
a risky thing to do. But it was my label boss.
(13:35):
He said to me, do that fucking woo who thing.
And I was like yeah, And I was like and
I said, but Shabs was my label boss. I was like,
it's not on the record. We didn't have a recording
of it. It wasn't on the album. And on the
Side of the World was the first single. I was like,
shouldn't I play the first single. He's like, no, trust
me play that whole thing.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
And I was like all right.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
And then then I morning I've won the online poll
of the favorite artist on the show Wow Against the Cure,
Against the Cure, and he a Bakker and Jackson Brown
and then on this tour I'm on at the moment,
we just played the Troubadour in Hollywood as our first.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Because Megan and I were trying to know and we
couldn't make it work. And I'm sorry, no, it was fantastic.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
We played the show and there's a little I don't
know if you've done a gig there, but there's a
little corridortairs dressing room and after the gig is great gig,
I'm getting changed and an older gentleman comes straight into
the dressing room, which is weird, like usually you've got
ten minutes or so after the show, and then I
realized it's clearly a friend of Sean's, and so you know,
(14:43):
all good, and he's got a beard and anyway comes
up to me in the dressing room and he goes, Katie,
it's Jackson Brown. Oh and I never met him that
night and I've never met him since. And I told
the story on stage age and Jackson Brown's like, I
remember that night. It was crazy.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
That's great, it was amazing.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
I love. I love when you hear about that kind
of collegiate environment that musicians can have, and they they
seem to like proper musicians, particularly I think rock musicians
that right. They don't correct me if I'm wrong, but
it seems to me that there's a kind of delight
in each other's work that I don't see so much
(15:28):
maybe with with other areas of entertainment.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
It's really funny because it's like it's like a kind
of high school musical with musicians where you often, like
at festivals or something where lots of you were there
in one place because we don't actually see each other
very often because you're touring all the time, the same
as a as a comedian, that you you don't really
(15:53):
fraternize that often.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
You know, yeah, I don't know at all.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
And then when we see each other there's this kind of.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Like you know, are we are?
Speaker 3 (16:04):
We? Are we cool? And then as soon as you
know the vibe is good, you can absolutely gush and
tell each other how much you love each other.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Does it cross boundaries?
Speaker 1 (16:17):
I mean that have you met people who are wildly
outside your musical purview that you think, I really want
to like work out you, I really want to jam
with you, I really want to play with you.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Like Jimmy, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Your little Yeah, I mean, well, what like Jewish drum
and bass bands?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
So yeah, yeah, I didn't even know.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Yeah, but I think I think the most impactful one
of those was holl of Notes. So so Daryl Hole
does this thing called Life from Daryl's House where he
gets bands. It's a bit like Jewels. He gets them
to come and jam. And I think I've seen this
and we just want and my head was blowing. I
(17:02):
was like in Darryl's place, he had a place in
London where we filmed it, and I'm playing a fucking
glockenspiel and out of touch and he's I'm like dueting
with Daryl Hall. And I ended up actually going on
the road with hol Notes a lot after that, and
that was just like it was the coolest. It was
(17:23):
so magic, isn't.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
It The weirdest thing though about getting on a show
business that you you rub up against people that you
idolized when you were young.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
I mean, you can't get away with that these days.
You can't rub up against them in the same way.
As well.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
People were rubbing up against people in the in the
nineties in a very different way.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
It was a different yea.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Now, if you rub, you rub yourself, keep it to yourself,
keep it to yourself, rub yourself and call yourself.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Can't.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
But I think the funny thing is it's like you're
still a fan of these people, you know, And I
find when I'm in those environments, You've just got to
go just fucking be cool. Just be cool, Just be cool,
just be normal. They're just musicians, just like you. They're
just musicians, you know. And not lose your ship, because
the thing is, if you lose your ship, you missed
(18:23):
the opportunity of actually connecting and having a friendship with someone,
you know. I remember when I, you know, when I
all first kicked off and I was friends with Scarlet Page,
Jimmy Page's daughter from and it was at bricks and
she and I was wearing these amazing Vivian Westward boots
right that I'd got for it, and I won that year.
(18:44):
It was brilliant year. And and she goes, do you
want to meet my dad?
Speaker 2 (18:48):
And I was like, yes, I really want to meet
your dad.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
And I'm trying to be cool. When to meet Page,
He's like, Hello'm Katie, and I'm like, oh my god.
I'm like, hi, Jimmy. I said, how are you? And
he goes, O great. He goes, I love your boots,
and I said and.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
I just went, I love you, and.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
He went anyway, nice to meet you.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Bye. Do you know That's why?
Speaker 1 (19:18):
That's why I would never let the bookers approach David
Bowie to appear on the Old Night Show.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
God, what would you?
Speaker 2 (19:25):
I don't try to keep it again.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
I know I feel the same way about a Bowie.
I never met Bowie and I would. I think I
would be a bit the same with Dylan. I just
im just like, I don't know what hell you'd say?
Speaker 1 (19:36):
You know, I know, I mean to just say you're great.
I think it's probably be weird.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
But it was brilliant when I did Jules Holland. I
met Robert Smith after the show, and he was actually
the first famous person I ever met. I'd never met
a famous person.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
First one I ever met, who Robert Smith.
Speaker 6 (19:58):
Shut the fuck up. It seemed crazy like our first
gigs were at the Edinburgh Festival. Yeah, Robert Smith. There
used to be a show.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
There used to be a show on TV in Britain
called Jukebox Jury, I remember, right, And it was like
some people would come on and they would talk about
songs like that, there's four people and you play a
bunch of news singles and people either go thumbs up
and thumb down and say whether they like them or not.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
And for somebody must have canceled.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
And I got invited on Jukebox Jury, and Robert Smith
was on juke Box Jury.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
But this is before I got sober.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Wow, so I was going ah and and I remember
it only because the single that we were judging was
unbelievable by E mf.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Right, that's how long ago it was.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Yeah, And Robert Smith didn't like it. I don't think
it's going to be a hit, and I was like, no,
it's awesome, it's going to be a hit.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
And I was drunk and all that, and.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
I still kind of feel a little weird about it,
because I don't think I was. I don't think I
was very impressive as a character in those years.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
I even I'm that impressive now, But back then I
was drunk a lot, and I.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Was I argued with Robert Smith about the value of
unbelievable by EMF.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
However, I was right, Yes, you were right.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
And I'm sure a guy like Robert Smith appreciates some
honest conviction.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
You know what, You're right?
Speaker 3 (21:40):
You know, he probally asks people fucking just agreeing with
him all the time.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Now I think about it, he probably thinks about me
a lot all the time.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
In fact, the new Cure album probably has a song
about you on it.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
He probably remembers it. And you know, that drunk Scottish
guy on juke Bow's Jury. I really liked him. He
challenged to me intellectually.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
So when I met him, it was the end of
it was the end of the show and they have
a nice little after show and he was still there,
and I remember thinking I've got to go and say
loo to him, and so say and I was asking
if they'd enjoyed making the new album they made, and
I really remember he sounded like a twenty one year
old who just started a band. He was just so
(22:25):
excited about new music, and it was just he was
just a great dude. I loved his energy about talking
about what they'd made and they you know, they'd already
beat around for twenty years or whatever.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Yeah, but I've heard you talk like that, so I've
had a lot of musicians stuff like that when you
have new stuff.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Oh yeah, well that's what you hope, that's what you hope,
you feel like. But then that kind of dried up.
My thought. I want to keep talking to him, So
what do you do? I should I should ask him
a question, you know, And I didn't really think about it.
I said, what are you up to this weekend? And
(23:07):
he goes and he goes, oh, well, we're having lunch
with my parents. I was like, but asking something else.
I said, what did I think of your hair and
your lipstick? Oh my god, this is a nightmare. And
(23:27):
he just smiles and he just goes, I don't usually
do that when I go home.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
That's very It's just the best. And oh my god,
he said. Game ended up.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
Giving me a quote for my very first press release. No, yeah,
it was. He was so sweet.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
You keep in touch.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
No, like we didn't, kind of we didn't swept numbers.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Were just going to ask if he if he had
mentioned me since since jury, about ninety eighty seven or something.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
I'll pass on a signed postcard of you next time
I see it.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Yeah, that's right, thinking of you.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Thinking of you, thinking of me, think think of you
on your tour.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
I do.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Sometimes historically it doesn't seem like my crowd or big
merch heads cheap. I've often just it's often just been
very poor. And the one thing that I found these
days that actually has been a complete turnaround is I
I do little handwritten lyric sheets and put them in
(24:38):
a little you know, frame, and people love that. So
I think. I think my crowd are much more about
music than they are about T shirts.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Well, here's what I have learned about merch Please do
tell me.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
It's that if you.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Sell mercho on the road, it's all about the design
of the shirt.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Yeah, I can't get it right.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
No, I here's the thing. Don't get involved. That's because
I think no, I say no, do this, do that.
Whenever I have an idea for a T shirt, nobody
fucking buy.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Maybe that's why I've always had the ideas and it's
never worked.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Don't get involved in your area.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Yeah, get well sadly, if Vivian Westwood is not available,
get somebody nearly as clever as Vivian Westwood to do.
Like Thomas, he farms it out to mask. My tour
manager farms it out to a merch company.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
That I must, I must get the details. I did
really want a T shirt. Do you remember everyone used
to wear the Catherine Hamnet t shirts. You know, choose.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Life, Frankie say relax exactly or hide yourself and stuff.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
I wanted. I wanted her to do a tour shirt
that said I did life in Fife. But she wouldn't
do it. Didn't didn't she didn't do requests.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
That is that where you grew ups? Yeah, yeah, it was.
It's quite a poshe very quite posh.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Well, I mean it's definitely like got a spectrum community
in Saint Andrews. But I was I was academic families
because my dad was a physicist, so my mom and
dad were English and they moved up just before well
I was. I was going to say I was born,
but I was acquired.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Because I was adopted.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
But yeah, so I think your story is so so interesting.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
It's quite a journey, for sure, it really is. But
dad was a physics lecturer and so we and I
found acaddemia was almost a bit like a religion, where
really it was sort of very hermetically sealed and it
was all just academic people hanging out with each other.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
And for sure, you know, the bitchiest motherfuckers I've ever
come across as well, is academics like their lore competitive. Yeah,
fucking teenage stand up comedians. They are unbelievable. Yeah, they've
always got a bad word to say about somebody else
in academia.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
Well, it's why I really respected my dad as well,
because he just didn't give a shit about being a professor.
All he wanted to do was research, and he was
just like, undergraduates are a waste of university money, and
he just loved researching. And I remember the one thing
that I've really taken to her that my dad explained
(27:31):
to me was one day he was really upset because
they weren't getting the funding for experiments. So all my
life growing up, Dad would go work at eight in
the morning, come home for lunch, go back to work,
come home for dinner and then take me and my
brother to his lab every evening because he had to
kind of keep checking these experiments and like he used
(27:52):
to fucking play games with liquid nitrogen with us.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
You know.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
It was benas. But he was very dedicated to the
experimental research that he was doing. He was working in
nuclear magnetic resonance a lot, which led to MRI machines
and yeah, and radiology.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Is that why you light up in the dark.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
Exactly, That's why you can always see where I am.
I mean, honestly, Dodge she start twelve people in his
department ended up getting cancer because they were just ignoring
radioactive science. But the one thing my dad said to
me was that he was trying to get funding and
he said, oh my god, they're only giving us five
years funding. You know, there's almost no point in doing it.
(28:36):
And I was like that sounds crazy, So what do
you mean and he said, well, you've got a fund
for twenty years because you're never going to find out
the answers to this research in five years. And then
I thought, so, will you know the answers to your research?
And he was like, probably not. And I was like, wait, what,
(28:58):
So you're dedicating your life to researching something that you
will probably never know the answer to. And he's like, absolutely, that's.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
It's the mark of it.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
I think that's the There's an old quote which I love,
which is is a mark of civilization and a man
that he will plant a tree that he knows he
will never stand in the shade of beautiful.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
That's exactly it, and that is an amazing mentality. Yeah,
you know that you're part of the course of exploration.
You're not a musician, not at all. Neither neither of
my parents were musical at all. They thought I was
born they were just the thing was that they got
(29:41):
me lessons. They could recognize that I was talented as
a young kid, and absolutely to their credit, they you know,
got me music teachers and came and saw me performing
at the Buyer Theater at all these plays, you know.
And then when I actually left college and said, guess what,
I'm going to be a perform forming artists, they were
like no, they were like, we thought you were going
(30:05):
to be a fleet teacher, you know, And so it
was very frightening for them because they didn't even listen
to music. They weren't music fans. There was no record
collection in my house.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
That's very odd. Is a genetic do you think my case? Yes?
Speaker 3 (30:23):
I think yeah. Apparently my my a biological father who
I never met but found out who he was through
long lost family. The ITV show was Irish. I knew
he was Irish, but apparently a very very good singer
and a bar owner, so he would just sing for everybody.
So yeah, wow, But it's always been innate. It sort
(30:46):
of feels like it feels like I mean, I'm sure
it's the same with you with comedy and comedic timing
that you just feel like you've been born bilingual.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Yeah, I can.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
It's something that I can do. I know I can
do it. I know that if I have to do it.
It's interesting because I've watched you perform in very different spaces.
I've seen you play in you know, giant fucking arenas,
and I saw you do a gig in a record
shop in London where it was twenty of us in
the shop or something that was brilliant. But you're exactly this.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
It's not.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
It's a different technique because if you're playing in a
giant show, you but you you seem to me and
I know exactly because I know how this feels. There
is a kind of an ease and a sense of
purpose that comes with the walkout on the stage. You go, now,
I'm going to do what I actually know everything from
now on, I'm going to be all right until this stops.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
I mean, I feel that really comes with time, Like
I wasn't like that at first, when it'd be funny
because when I watch myself when I'm younger, I'm like,
I look like I'm I look I seem cool, Like
I'm not really looking at the audience that much. I'm
not saying that much. I'm a total blabbermouth now and
(31:59):
I'm looking at and I know, I know looking at
I'm like, I'm shy. I'm definitely shy, and I'm I'm
I'm compensating by kind of playing it cool. And now
that I'm older, I'm just an absolute like you know,
gob shy. I'll just go on and be and I'm
just I'm talking to the crowd like I talked to you.
(32:21):
But I wanted to ask you this because I knew
we were talking today that did you do you remember
or have you ever had a relationship with this idea
of the abyss. When you're performing, you know you can
go off the edge of a cliff, that it can
fucking go horribly wrong, like you.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Actually that was your career. I think that's I think
you're talking exactly my technique. I know I know exactly
what you're talking about. Let me ask you, though, because
have you finished describing it?
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Because well, all my.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
Point being was that I believe I subscribed to that
in the early part of my career, and there was
a turning point where I realized, I think it's a myth.
I don't think it exists. And that's when and that's
when I changed my demeanor was like, I actually don't
(33:21):
think anything can really go wrong here. I think it's
up to you if it goes wrong.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
I think that's right.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
That's what It's funny that happened to me in a
very definite way.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
I have it filmed actually.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
When I was doing Late Night, because until Late Night,
I was doing very much to formulate, you know, the
life of an actor and a comedian and a writer.
And I would do this and do that, but late night,
because I had to do it every night. It was
a repetition every night. I'd be a different show.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Every night.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
I kind of began to get bored, right, and the
boredom was interesting, dangerous. Yeah, well, what I haven't told
a lot of people, and this might be the first
time I've talked about it publicly for about two years
when I was run about when I did that monologue
I did that everyone talks about when Britney Spears had
(34:18):
that meltdown, and I was. I happened to be fifteen
years sober that day, and I was like, it was
in two thousand and seven, and by the way.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Thank you for doing that. It was a really extremely
powerful thing to do.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
That was the abysto because what happened right at that time.
I so hated what I was doing. I hated it.
I hated pretending that I was doing jokes like, hey,
have you guys been watching the playoffs and stuff? I
don't watched the fucking I don't even really know what
a playoff is. And I was pretending to be someone else.
I was bored and I hated it and I was uncomfortable.
(34:53):
And then that thing happened with her that weekend, and
I felt terrible for her, but it was and I
when I went to work that morning, it was during
that period, maybe a couple of months before and it
ended a couple of months after. Everywhere I went, I
had my passport in my top pocket, so that because
(35:14):
I thought, tonight's the night they're going to fucking get
rid of me. Tonight's the night I'm not going to
be able to stand it and just fucking leave and
fuck it and go to a Bogatar or something or whatever.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
It was.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
All the time, Wow, And I think you're right.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
There comes to a point where you go you don't
have to run to escape the fucking the bonds of
your own terror.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
You don't have to fucking run. You know that you can.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
You can face it right there and find whatever fucking
happens happens.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
And I think you just you realize you're not a
visitor to a venue. Yeah, the venue is yours.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
The cry the other night I said, this is entirely collaborative,
Like this doesn't happen if you're not here, and this
doesn't happen if I'm not here. And that's the magic
is that you create this totally unique closed loop circuit
with those particular people. And I say it all the
time because I think it's really great for people to
(36:19):
remember that when you're in a venue watching someone or
you're performing.
Speaker 6 (36:24):
It's the only time in the history of the fucking
universe that those specific.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
People will ever be in a room together.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
It's like a finger the exactly.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
And you know, remembering that that experience cannot be emulated
by technology. It's it's completely protected from any possible future
because it's magical and it's and it's to be odd
and to be respected. And I think when I realize,
(37:00):
and you know, partly why I realized it was fans
would wagh afterwards to say hi, and so many of
them would say my favorite bit was when you fucked up.
I've got emotional saying that. But it's like I'd be
like what I've been like, practicing for years and trying
(37:21):
to get these songs perfect. And it's when you realize
that the perfect show is something special that didn't happen
last night. You know.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
I think that also it is the recognition of the
audience is maturity of a performer. And I'll tell you
what I'm coming to. This is something I've been messing
around with very recently. I was on stage a couple
of nights ago in Cleveland, and you know, the Agora
Theater in.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Cleveland's a big venue. This nice venue.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
I like it.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
And I was on stage and I was kind of
mucking around with the audience at the end, towards the
end of the night, and I said to them, you
guys are probably familiar with the Danish Christian existentialist philosopher
sore and Caregreguard.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
And when he said, I and I believe this to
be true.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
Only the noble of heart are called to difficulty. And
I said, it's a pain in the ass to go
out at night. It's a pain in the ass. To
get a babysitter. It's a pain and ass to get
in the bus or the trainer, get your car Parkin's
a pain in the ass. Getting a ticket and a
pain in the ass. The ticket websites are a pain
in the ass. That everything's a pain in the ass.
(38:41):
And I know it's all difficult. I know it's all that.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
And I know that money is fucking tight for a
lot of people too.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
And the fact that you did all that, you went
through all of that fucking niggaly bullshit to come here
and hang out with me. I can't tell you how
much I appreciate it, and then they waited for the
joke and I said, I don't have a joke. I
really need it. Yeah, And that was a kind of
weird moment as well. And I love that and I
like what you're described. It's true, it's different.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
And talking of Squeeze, so Julle, I don't know if
they would be a Katie Tunstall if it wasn't for Squeeze, right,
because went on, Jules Holland didn't have a recording of
that song, so the first ten thousand copies of the
record are the audio from Jules Holland.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Yeah, no idea.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
And then and then we had to rush record a
version of the song to actually get it out as
a single, and we ended up recording it in Chris
Difford's studio, who's also from Squeeze. And then fast forward,
you know, eighteen years I'm invited to go on tour
with Holland Oates and it's two openers, it's me and Squeeze,
(39:53):
So I'm on first, then Squeeze than Hollow Notes. And
this was the twenty fifth February twenty twenty, so it
was just before everything shut down. We were playing Madison
Square Gardens, and it was it was you know, and
it's just holy great. It's like that is the pilgrimage,
and it's you. It's not on your Bingo card of
(40:13):
life that you might ever get to play that place,
you know, right, So it was I was so excited.
It was a bit of a cup downtime set because
of the special venue, so I had twenty minutes opening time.
And the other thing that's amazing about that, for me
particularly is that I'm solo, so like, who the fuck
ever gets to play You'd always have a band playing
(40:34):
Madison Square Gardens, but I get to get on stage
to twenty thousand people who wouldn't come and see me
on my own and play a set for them. So
I'm just, you know, so excited. And a friend of mine,
it's total name drop is a photographer called Pete Caesar
who was Obama's photographer and Reagan's photographer. But I know
(40:56):
him through Brandy Carlisle and he does quite a lot
of music photography these days. Anyway, he's in town, so
he says he's going to come to the show, and
I go on stage and I start, I mean, it's
just phenomenal that space have you have you gigged there.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
I've never played it.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
It's an amazing space, and you know, it's in the round,
so it feels kind of quiet. Yeah, So I go
on stage. I'm there. Forty five seconds into my song,
all my gear craps out. Jeez, the lights turn off.
It is dead. I have no equipment. My guitar is
not working, but for some reason, my mic is still working.
(41:37):
And so I'm fucking on stage with my pants down
with a microphone in front of twenty thousand people.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
That I'm familiar with, like a minute into.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
The first song, and you know, the guys are kind
of running around trying to work out what's happened, and
I'm just going, Jesus Christ do I? And I thought
maybe I should sing an a cappella song, but I
don't know what would work without the music, and I
just I couldn't get my head around it quick enough.
And I'm thinking in my head all roads have led here,
(42:16):
you know, to being on one of the biggest, most
famous stages in the world in this situation, and I
just felt myself, go, fuck it, no, abyss go and
I just got on the mic and I just went
Madison Square Gardens. If the fifteen year old me could
(42:38):
see the forty seven year old me standing on stage
at Madison Square Gardens while all of her stuff fucks up,
she'd be delighted. And everybody just roared great and gave
me a massive standing oe. They go the gear working
(43:01):
and I had a phenomenal rest set and it was amazing.
It was incredibly memorable. And Chris Difford was standing side
a stage watching and I did a podcast with him
recently and I told that story and he let me
tell it and he was like, well, I know that happened, Katie,
(43:23):
because I was there watching you. And I was like, god,
I just I just blocked everything out, you know. But
Pete Susa was behind me on the stage and he
took this picture of me once I got going again,
and my hair is just flying in the air and
my muscles popping out, and it just felt like the
(43:48):
arena felt like a gladiator in the arena. What happened?
You know? What do you do when it hits the fan?
And it was funny. It was another of those moments
where I was like, there's no way anything is ever
gonna be as as confronting as that, as everything going
(44:08):
wrong at MSG.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
I've done it. I've done it.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
I came through the fire.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
But also what happens is I think, I don't know
if this will happen to you, but it certainly happened
to me. When things started to go wrong and I
enjoyed it, I started to look I started to look
for it to go wrong.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
I kind of I'm a little I'm a little guilty
of it.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
Like I I when I started Late Night, I had
I think eight or ten writers. When the time I
had finished, I had three because I was like, it
just puts some stuff on the thing and it will
work it out.
Speaker 3 (44:48):
But that's why it was so brilliant, and that's why
I talked to a lot of people over here, and
you are just their absolute number one favorite. Like they
go back and the guy who's with my on tour
just watches your the reruns all the time because it's
a really different level of it's no possible, but it's
(45:10):
not possible in a company environment.
Speaker 1 (45:12):
It's I think that it's it's when I watch it
and I wonder if a band does the same thing
to a personality like you, because you are a consummate musician.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
I've known.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
I know you, and I know you, and I've worked
with you and I love you and I know how
you work. But I also know you and I you know,
we've we've played musical instruments together with my young son,
and I know that. Yeah, but I think this is
and I've said this you. I think you think like
a stand up I think you like.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Yeah, you you.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
You have that kind of of Course you can play
in a band. Of course, you can play with other music.
You enjoy it, you're good at it. I can run
around with actors and you know my lages. I can
do all that.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
But really, when you're on your own, that's when it's Yeah.
Speaker 3 (45:59):
And I have to say, like, there's been times where
I've thought, God, it would be nice to be in
a band, wouldn't it to sort of not be really
just just not be the absolute captain of the ship
all the time and for everything to be your decision
and all the consequences of that beyond you. But I
have to be completely honest, I'm fucking very relieved on
(46:20):
a solo act.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
Yeah, I just I think that's easier on everybody, including
the musicians that you working.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
But I do because of unreasonable it's just because I do.
Speaker 3 (46:32):
Like to have control of that, of the stage and
of how it goes. And and when I'm on stage,
I'm very aware of I've got the wand I've got
the conch, you know, and you decide how it goes.
And I love being able to go, yeah, we're not
going to do that, We're going to do this.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Also, if you even look at the origin of your
your career from the story you're telling about Jewels doing
Jules this show at that time, that's fucking ballsy, you know.
Speaker 3 (47:06):
I remember I remember doing it. It was up in
the Highlands somewhere. Did a radio show not long after
that was aired, and there was an engineer and he
was such a sweet guy and I can't remember his name,
but he goes get it. I was watching the Telly,
I was watching what you were doing, and I went, oh, no, no,
what doing And he understood. There was so few people
(47:30):
who understood. They could have gone so.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
Wrong, the danger of what was going on. Yeah, but
that whatever, that is that that when you talk about
the best and you talk about the danger.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
Like one of the very first stand ups I ever
did was.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
At a punk festival in the IPA or the Ica
or something in London, and I was absolutely harangued and
booed off stage by the audience and all that. And
when I come off, because I remember Peter Capaldi was
there at the time, he was in the band I
was in at the time, he was like.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
Oh, oh dear. I was like, I was like, no,
I want to do it again.
Speaker 3 (48:16):
And it's like it's like, you know, I also can't
really perform that well, not under pressure.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
Yeah, I know what you mean.
Speaker 3 (48:25):
If I if I'm filming something and I know that
I can do it again, it won't be as good.
Speaker 4 (48:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
Yeah. Also here's another thing though, let me ask you this, because.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
Sometimes people will come backstage after you've done a show
and they'll tell you how great the show wasn't how
much they enjoyed it, and it might not be a
show that you enjoyed, yeah, as much. And I've I've
decide I've learned over the time to shut up about
that now and just thanks very much.
Speaker 3 (48:56):
I know there's a real dissonance that can happen between
you thinking you've had a great show and they were.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
Like it's nice yah.
Speaker 3 (49:04):
Or or are you having a terrible time, and then
just going Oh that was great, you know.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
I had one recently.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Yeah, I've heard performers talk about that when they're playing
in Japan.
Speaker 3 (49:15):
Oh, it's just it's it's crazy because they someone said
to me, just don't mumble, don't don't ramble, because they'll
clap for ten seconds and then it's silence, so they
go and then you're just like, oh my god, it's
completely silent, and you just start mumbling nonsense and it happened.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
But did you mumble?
Speaker 7 (49:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (49:40):
I was just like this. And a lot of Japanese
people don't speak English, so they also a lot of
the audience have no idea what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (49:48):
Did they understand where you're singing?
Speaker 3 (49:51):
I don't think good.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
Music doesn't.
Speaker 3 (49:55):
And it's another beautiful thing about music. When you travel
the world and play people, you take it for granted
that you speak English, and there's so many of these
countries that you go to, but they have absolutely they're
basically listening to the Cocktail Twins. They have no idea why,
you know, and they really a lot of audience members
(50:16):
won't know what the words mean. And you see that
the words are emotionally communicating just as powerfully as if
they did know what you were saying. It's mad.
Speaker 1 (50:31):
I went to an AA meeting with a friend of
mine from America once in Scotland and she.
Speaker 2 (50:36):
Sat next to me. She sat next to me in
the meeting, and at the end of the meeting she.
Speaker 1 (50:40):
Went, that was one of the greatest AA meetings I've
ever been to in my life.
Speaker 2 (50:44):
Didn't understand a fucking word, not a fucking word, but
somehow it worked.
Speaker 3 (50:52):
Yeah. Yeah, I made that amazing kind of osmosis through
performance of not necessarily having to. I mean, it's the
same with art, isn't it with painting or with dance,
where there's something just that isn't to do with language
(51:15):
at all.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
Right, it's and it's the thing that I you know,
I am so jealous of that doesn't exist in stand up.
If they don't speak English, I can't do it.
Speaker 3 (51:27):
I don't agree with you, though, because I'm I'm fully
of the feeling that I think stand up is king.
I think it is the hardest, most impressive art. I
think it's I just think it's beyond I don't see it.
Speaker 2 (51:44):
That way at all. I think musicianship funnily enough because.
Speaker 3 (51:48):
Let's slap each other's asses, and that's more of a
nineties thing. But the thing is, but Craig, I could
be having any kind of day. I could be feeling
like shit, or I could be feeling great. It doesn't matter.
I can get on stage and just play the cheats
(52:09):
and with stand up. There's just a level of vulnerability
where it's gonna be pre I would, unless you're incredibly
good at acting, they're gonna see where you're at.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
No, it's not like that at all. Really, No, it's
not like that at all. It doesn't matter what kind
of day you've had. It doesn't matter what kind of
madness is going on in your life.
Speaker 3 (52:37):
You can still just enter. Well.
Speaker 1 (52:39):
When you go on to the stage, you start breathing
different air and it's it's different, it's a.
Speaker 2 (52:47):
Different set of rules.
Speaker 1 (52:49):
When I towards the end of my drinking, I was
like the last six months I was My life was
in tatters, you know, my.
Speaker 2 (52:58):
Relationship was breaking up. I was fuck.
Speaker 1 (53:00):
I was homeless for all intensive purposes. But I was
doing a show in the West End. I was doing
the Rocky Horror Show in the West End of London,
which is a lot of moving parts and a lot
of things and a lot of laughs and a big
audience and and and high pressure. And every night when
I heard the dum dim and it was about to start,
(53:23):
I thought, Okay, Everin's going to be all right for
the next ninety nine.
Speaker 3 (53:27):
It's amazing that you held that ship together.
Speaker 1 (53:30):
I don't only for then. I think it's and I
think that's what I think, that's what it is. I
mean about the stand up though it doesn't. I mean,
look at some of the people that do it, and
then how terrible their lives are when they're not on
a stage.
Speaker 2 (53:46):
I mean musicians too.
Speaker 1 (53:47):
The one that always gets me is producers, people that
do all this difficult kind of work and then can't,
you know, balance their own checking account.
Speaker 2 (53:59):
It's so bizarre to me.
Speaker 3 (54:01):
I know. I was going to say about comedy that
the place that I always just find genius is the
silence in comedy and the and and just the courage
of silence. And the comedians, I really like, they're just
so comfortable in silence and they just don't need to
(54:25):
speak into the silence. And maybe that's the same with
music as well. Maybe it's the space.
Speaker 1 (54:30):
I think it's a similar thing. Robin Williams used to
always say. Robin always said it was funny you being
so little. But the Robin used to always say that
it's jazz. He said, he said, stand up is jazz,
and the way he and he always thought it was music.
I certainly nearly every stand up I know, and certainly
every stand up I like, is musical in some way.
Speaker 2 (54:51):
Yeah, they're not.
Speaker 1 (54:52):
They have a musical connection at some point. They don't
just do that. Maybe it's different now because young people
become stand up comedians in a way that they used
to become musicians.
Speaker 2 (55:04):
Yeah, it's it's kind of like to.
Speaker 3 (55:07):
Me, it's probably a wiser choice.
Speaker 2 (55:11):
I mean, I don't know the thing about that.
Speaker 1 (55:13):
For me, becoming a stand up was like becoming a
real estate agent. It was just like, well, fuck it,
you know what I mean, it'll do.
Speaker 2 (55:22):
Yeah, well.
Speaker 1 (55:24):
Yeah, well not practical more just kind of like a
second choice position.
Speaker 2 (55:29):
I would have rather been you. I wanted to be you,
but but I.
Speaker 1 (55:34):
Can't or didn't or wouldn't or didn't have the talent
for it, or didn't have the application for it, or
it just wasn't there, and I and I ended up
doing something else.
Speaker 2 (55:44):
But I wanted to be a musician.
Speaker 1 (55:46):
And I think a lot of and I've seen it
with a lot of actors and stand ups who all
really kind of want to be rock stars. Unless, be honest,
everybody wants to be a rock star, because you don't.
You don't say to someone as in a compliment, if
they do something really well, you don't say, you know,
you say oh, you're a rock star, thanks man. You
don't say, oh, you're a comedian, thanks man. You're an
(56:13):
absolute actor, thank you.
Speaker 4 (56:15):
You know voiceover voice, you're a guy that can write
really good jingles, Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (56:23):
It's not they don't do that.
Speaker 8 (56:26):
Star is I was talking about this to someone the
other day about this the the very common actor and
desire to do music, and I really relate to it
because I do think it's because they're spending a career
being given the words and told how.
Speaker 3 (56:45):
To say them. Yes, and so music is absolutely autonomous.
You get to do the performance. And the other thing is,
if you're in a movie or a TV show, you
don't get an audience fucking clapping at the end of
every scene. No, no, you know, we get we get
a huge applause every four or five minutes.
Speaker 1 (57:08):
You know what, fucking bothers with musicians is as well
as that you can go out and people will wait
for the song you wrote twenty years ago. If I
do a joke that I wrote twenty years ago, I
fucking riot in my head.
Speaker 2 (57:23):
I can't even do a joke I wrote a year ago. Yeah,
I've got There.
Speaker 3 (57:29):
Was an amazing There was an amazing there's an amazing
bit of audio on the Joni Mitchell live album Miles
of Aisles, which is a beautiful, beautiful live album I
think from the Greek Theater in or a Follywood Bowl
in LA and she's about to sing Circle Game, I think.
And she's a painter, obviously, Johnny Mitchell, you know, great
(57:51):
did a lot of her own album covers. But you know,
she's got that great voice and she just goes.
Speaker 7 (57:57):
You know, I was always really envious of painters. They
can be whatever they want. They can they can either
just stay in the attic and not show anybody their stuff,
or they can try and sell their work for a
million dollars whatever. But you know, no one ever said
to Van go hey Man, paint starry Night again.
Speaker 3 (58:26):
Brilliant. It's brilliant. There's a lot of there's a lot
of like obvious benefits to being a musician as a performer,
where gratification you know.
Speaker 2 (58:42):
You're fucking great at it. Though, I like being your friend.
I like your friend. I like being your friend that
I like being You're.
Speaker 1 (58:49):
Not uncomfortable with me being a fan, which I think
is it's advanced. But I am a fan. But that's okay,
because you can be a fan and a friend of someone.
Speaker 2 (59:01):
It's all right, it's alright.
Speaker 3 (59:03):
But I think it's a very good moment to share
with anyone watching this who might not know that our
worlds have smoothed together in a big way.
Speaker 1 (59:13):
Yeah, the musical of a movie that I did twenty
years ago, Saving Grace, which now you've written the songs
for the music.
Speaker 3 (59:26):
For the music.
Speaker 2 (59:28):
It's really good. It is really good. It is really good.
So you're going to do it in London next year.
I think that's what's going to happen.
Speaker 3 (59:35):
Yeah, it's it's all feeling very good.
Speaker 2 (59:38):
I think that's great. That means you and I are
in London.
Speaker 3 (59:41):
Yeah, it's a long time, like I've been working on
it for years and year, like maybe eight years, and
these things take a long time. And I really feel
like with fashion. Something fantastic.
Speaker 2 (59:52):
It's really cool, isn't that what we did? The preview shows?
Speaker 3 (59:55):
It's great. What was it like making that film Saving Grace?
Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
It was fine?
Speaker 3 (01:00:01):
Did you enjoy it?
Speaker 2 (01:00:02):
I loved it.
Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
It was a great brand of Brenda was so fantastic.
We had We laughed the whole time we were making
that film. And Cornwall and.
Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
That's brilliant. She and I made up. Did I think
I told you this?
Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
We made up a sea shanty when we were in Cornwall.
I can still remember it because and I will sing
it for you now. Is he's got blonde hair, a
black mustache, and a great brown bushy beard. But he's
ginger down below me boys, ginger down below.
Speaker 3 (01:00:43):
So Brenda Bleafin played a really big role in my life.
I was able to tell her actually when I met her,
and it made her cry. Was The Secrets and Lies?
Was the movie that made me look for my biology
pull mother, oh, because I just thought. I just thought
(01:01:04):
I was very close to my mom and I was
very close to my dad. But you know, you've always
got that question of like sure, I just want to
see the the other bits that make me, you know,
And and I watched Secrets and Lies, which is just
such a work of genius, and I just thought that's
an absolute ship show. And I feel like I could
(01:01:24):
handle that, and if I could handle that, then I
can probably handle whatever is it waiting for me and
and indeed I could. But it was a big it
was a big inspiration that movie.
Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
That's really that's kind of nice. Yeah, she's great. I
mean she's a lovely person and a great actress.
Speaker 3 (01:01:45):
Yeah, one of my favorites.
Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
All right, we got to go. Yeah done. Yeah, are
we seeing you soon? You're coming to our house or what.
Speaker 3 (01:01:55):
I'm going to be in. I'm in London.
Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
You've seen Meghan in London. Megan's going to London.
Speaker 3 (01:01:59):
And her old January February.
Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
Yeah, I think we'll be there.
Speaker 3 (01:02:03):
Because I'm also getting clueless on stage.
Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
You're getting the musical, which you've done the music and it's.
Speaker 3 (01:02:10):
Going to be at the Tripalgatha in the West End
from the middle of February.
Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
All right, so we'll come and see that.
Speaker 3 (01:02:15):
It's going to be fun.
Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:02:17):
That would be just an ear for saving grace, that's
all it is.
Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
Yeah, knock it off, all right, Well, bugger off, and
I thanks for doing this and I'll see I love you.
Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
I love you too. Of course I love everyone in
the podcast, but I actually do love you.
Speaker 3 (01:02:36):
You're it's actually fam proper is its family. I remember
when we first met doing Saving Grace and we were
talking to someone else and we were obviously bonding on
the Scottish thing, and we were talking about bad language
and I was like, people don't understand, and I said,
A good way, a good way to explain it is
(01:02:59):
is Craig here. He's a great count. And they're like,
well you can't, you can't know. That's that's that's how
to explain it. And you just looked at me and
he went, I like you.
Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
That's so funny. There you all right, get out of here.
Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
I'll see you in London, big love, see you soon,
all right, Love to you, bye bye.
Host
Craig Ferguson
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