April 17, 2023 • 39 mins
RHOBH - S10, E12 “ROMAN RUMORS”
Bethenny is joined by comedian Margaret Cho as they go open mic on the RHOBH! They address a glaring issue from the episode and how it would be even worse today and even call out some bad acting?
And that’s not all…Bethenny and Margaret even go as far as role playing to recreate how they think a dramatic interaction between a couple of the Housewives should have gone!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Ladies of Beverly Hills are taking the drama to Italy.
When Teddy drops a bomb at dinner in Rome, Denise
breaks the fourth wall and coins the term Bravo, Bravo,
fucking bravo. Comedian actress and musician Margaret Cho joins me
to break down the episode. This is the Real Housewives
of Beverly Hills Season ten, episode twelve. Roman rumors. So
(00:35):
this is your first Housewives episode ever?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Yes, and just at being like sort of in the universe.
What do you know about it? Do you ever read
about it in pop culture? Do you know who the
people are? Or is this like a bunch of strangers?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I know garcel I find Garcelle very attractive. I did
her podcast and I know maybe it's uh him from
End of the Lost.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Oh okay, that's funny.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
And Denise from Wild Things. I also have listed to
full episode renditions like theatrical productions by Bowen Yang and
Matt Rogers, who would tried me and make fun of
me for never seeing the show, and they would recreate
(01:27):
they know episodes lined by line and would recreate full
scenes for me all the time, and they still do,
which I mean, I just don't watch a lot of unscripted,
so it's just never my point of contact with pop cult.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
I don't either, by the way, And that's funny that
you like unscripted makes it sound so fancy and documentary, like.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Well it is, it isn't.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Well that's what that brings me to the first question,
which I didn't I would ask, but what do you
think because the people that you mentioned are all actresses,
So I have not really said aloud yet that on
Beverly Hills you have Denise Richards, Kyle, you had Kim
that's three, Lisa Rennis four Garcel So I know it's
(02:19):
Beverly Hills, but you have five actresses on a quote
unquote reality show. What do you think of that concept?
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Well, actresses really shining because they know when the camera's on,
they know what's going to be perceived by the camera.
And also they're kind of re emerging as a version
of themselves, so you can sort of tell that they're
playing these archetypes that are not necessarily entirely themselves, even
(02:50):
though there is a suspension of disbelief in the audience
we're watching it as we're assuming this is the real person.
I mean, there's definitely aspects of it. But when you
can say something like bravo, brah ba bravo and stop
the action, we can't do that in real life.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
That's interesting. Well, but they yeah, well this is interesting
that you say that. Well, two things one right, like
it doesn't matter anymore. It doesn't matter that Housewives aren't matter,
I mean, aren't married. It's sort of just this entertainment
vehicle that has that name. And it doesn't matter if
people are even acting, because no one would wear the
(03:27):
clothing that these people wear in their hotel restaurant downstairs.
Like you know, you'd be wearing a jean jacket, leather
leggings and boots if you wanted to be cute. But
cameras are on, and there's an absurdity particularly to this one. This,
in my opinion, this not only this episode, but this
marks an era in Housewives where it became ridiculous, Like
(03:48):
my old see what you're wearing right now, when I'm
wearing that, this is what I would have worn in
Housewives in my first five years on, Like you would
just wear this and you do your own makeup, and
you'd sit down and you do the interview in the
interview chair and like you wouldn't be in a costume.
So I'm very old school the way that I talk that.
I'm like old school about bagels and I don't think
they should have fifty bullshit on them and blueberry and
(04:08):
chocolate chip, and like I'm a purist about it. I'm
kind of old school about reality TV. I think it
should be reality. And The Hills was trashed for not
being reality, you know, and in a lot of trouble
about that being staged. And I think that The Housewives
used to be its best when it was really real.
So that's why this is like a different if you
were doing a documentary on Housewives. This the Beverly Hills
(04:33):
cast with Dorrit and Erica in particular, changed the whole
franchise into being more about hair and makeup and glamswads
and costumes.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Right. But it's also like what it makes me think
of is really like Court of the Sun King. Like
it's very Versailles, where we have these like people who
are wealthy or aspired to well, whether they're actually like
financially wealthy or not, whether they're it's more of a
(05:07):
show of it, right, that's more important. So it's a
really interesting thing of like the posturing of wealth as
a form of currency, like not just money currency, but
social class, like elegance, the performative aspect of femininity, beauty
(05:28):
and grace. And so it's like it is like the
court of the king. It's it's kind of like the
way that we want to see royals at So we
were not allowed to go into the royals chambers to
see how they so what we get to go into
the Housewives.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Very interesting And you're right, and there are these different
things like if to someone who should do a documentary
on the Housewives, it should I'm going to actually write
that down because I'm thinking about like the different versions.
So for example, Beverly Hills, a cast member is like
the be like the bags and the palatial, because in
New York City you could have one of those housewives.
(06:07):
The value of a real Housewives of Beverly Hills house
in an apartment would not seem as grand because a
New York City apartment it could be like five thousand
square feet and be twelve million dollars and that's going
to look much bigger. And forget when you get to
Atlanta and they're in the outskirts, and you could have
one point eight million dollar house that looks like it's
twenty that is twenty thousand square feet. So there are
all these different things that these different cities bring. In
(06:30):
Beverly Hills is bringing this massive gland. But in particular,
if you look at Dori and in what she used to
wear season one, or when Denise Richards came in in
the beginning, she was like wearing t shirt and shorts
to go to someone's balcony at a hotel room when
Erica and Dorie made it costume like and then you
see all the other women following suits. So Lisa Renne
(06:51):
being in a wig, in that crazy eyeshadow and leopard,
that's not how she used to dress on the show.
She's trying to keep up with the Joneses in wardrobe
and in fact on the show, which makes it intense.
I would not I would hate that part.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Well, Lisa Renna. It's so funny because I just know
her in such a humble manner from to me, she's
still the shopkeeper on Ventura.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Ah, you know, like.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
I just I'm like, oh, I went to her store
to buy a juicy couture jumpsuit. Like I'm very like, Oh,
that's the lady that sells the the Loure, you know,
like it's a very like to me, it's a very
Oh she dances with Louie November.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Same and I knew her, and she did change a little.
She has changed, Like she's different than she was when
she started, which peoples change and evolve. But she's not
that girl anymore.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Well, she's a boss. I mean she still walks around
like she owns the shop, which is great. You know,
it's great for the show. It's great for the culture
of the show because she seems to be the commandeering
aspect and she does a catalyst for a lot of
things in conversations and events, including this trip.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Right. Okay, so you're the I've talked more with you
about like the whole Zeite case of it than anyone.
But anyway, okay, So that's finnyly that you say that,
because you know, you hear that, like Lisa Rinnat in
the past was the one who drove the charge of
the Munchausen's argument. You don't have to know what it was,
but you saw that, and in the past she drove
the charge puppy Gate. Even last season, she you know,
(08:18):
explained this dramatic conversation with she and hat Kathy Hilton,
and she got post traumatic stress disorder from it and
she needed to bring it into the group. So she
always sort of has this dramatic way of acting like
it's her social responsibility to bring something into the group.
So in this case, it's her responsibility to bring in
(08:40):
the fact that Denise may have had an affair with
another former housewife when she's married, and they use the
bullshit like did she say bad things about three other housewives?
And who gives a shit? Because everybody talks about other housewives.
They use that bullshit vehicle to like get us to
how do we talk on this show about this possible affair.
(09:02):
So I want to get into that and go at
it a bunch of different ways, but I want to
start with Lisa Rinna. But the resounding thought that I
had overall was who gives a shit what she does?
And she can have an affair. But they all acted
like this was like this you know, looming responsibility. Everybody
had to talk about this affair. And Lisa Renna was
driving the charge in the car in the beginning when
(09:22):
she's like, oh, I don't know what to do. I
don't know what to do with this information.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Well, this is perfect for Lisa because she was the
one that when you go back to her store on Ventura,
she would create the window display. So every time I
would see her, she would be out in front putting
the outfits in different combinations on the mannequins. So this
is basically what she's doing in the show. She's bringing
you into the show, into their personalities and their dysfunction
so that you'll come in and buy the story.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Ah, you genius, Margaret show you are the perfect three
wives guests. Wow, I love an analogy, a metaphor. I
love the f You're brilliant. Yes she is.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
She's accessorizing the details. She's using their personalities against each
other so that people will be drawn further into the
story of what's going on, and the other characters will
be drawn further into the clothes she's putting on them,
the clothes meeting these ideas and scandals that they're wearing around.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Yes, and you have, and you're right because she's at
least own it, Like she's the one who says own it.
She's like driving and she's owning it and she's giving
us some meat to eat off the bone. And this
is you're seeing a lot of the characters in true form.
And so what I mean by that is Kyle's like
sort of like rolling her eyes a little because she
has tremendous opinions, but she's not going to share them
because she needs to be the Kyle that's been on
(10:39):
since season one that has always liked them. We'll get
a little dirty, but never too dirty. And Teddy's sort
of always feigning ignorance and like is that sort of
like awe shucksness about it, And like I don't want
the responsibility, but it's my responsibility because it's accountability to
bring this matter into the forefront. So like at least
Lisa is like coming out with it, but like other
(11:00):
a hide behind the ways, you know to because they're
playing to many audiences, so they're playing to each other
and they're playing to us as viewers, and the viewer's
so smart. So Lisa's driving, Teddy's like in the bullshit seat,
and Kyle's just like, oh, I don't know, you know,
rolling the eyes and only getting a little bit so dirty.
So Teddy, the first thing I wrote on my notes
(11:23):
here you know, because I always write on like scrawl
on piece of paper when I'm watching that I hope
I'll be able to read the next day. Teddy is
the shit stir that hides. That's what I wrote. So so,
But also you don't know Brandy Glanville. She's not the
best source that everybody you know, it's not the Wall
Street Journal, it's Brandy Glanville. They're like a whole show
(11:45):
is hanging on that. Brandy Glanfill's giving us all of
these pearls of wisdom, wisdom, but.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
She speaks with such conviction. I mean, the Brandy, even
though she's unreliable, is a witness. She's a convincing witness.
And then everybody seems to believe everything that she's saying.
And then coming back and I feel sorry for Teddy
because Teddy seems like sort of like the innocent bystander
who's just out of her like out of her depth
(12:11):
of what to.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Do with these people.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
She's just like uh uh. And then Kyle's very judgmental too.
Kyle's very like Kyle's classic dark brunette, Like a dark
brunette always is the voice of reason and like, okay,
go ahead, go ahead, all right, this is I guess
this is what we're doing, okay.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
In real life? Does like where does this rate on?
Like who gives a shit? And like real or actual?
Note like real not like normal like normal gossip circles,
like what on a one to ten of who gives
a shit? Like so someone may or may not have
had like a single moment with another actress they're both hot,
(13:02):
Like where does this matter in real normal life?
Speaker 2 (13:05):
I guess it matters in that like what are people
even thinking of me? And I think this is like
a classic fear that everybody has when they go on
a girl's trip. It's like we don't want to be
singled out. And it's almost like is this is this
a real friendship or are we just trying to outdo
each other with drama, out do each other with outfits,
out do each other with pearls in the hair with
(13:27):
dorry during the perfect like Chanelle hair moment, which is
so over over the top. They're like dinner and race.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
But by the way, it's also shitty af to say
that you're dressed in casual. I would not have that
much of a look. I swear to you on my
life at the Mechala, my hair look wouldn't be that intense,
Like I promise you that was insane. It's stupid. It's like,
you know, when you're so hungry, you're not even hungry anymore,
Like it's so beyond the pale that you like have
(13:58):
to almost celebrate it. It's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Yes, well, and she's not really true to this Chanelle
archetype because Chanelle is really about sportswear that is very
much going from the sporting event to a night out.
So it's about jersey, it's about it's about casual nests. Actually,
So the real aesthetic of Chanel isn't that polished. She's
(14:20):
doing more like a car Lagerfeld.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
I love you. So the range that you have from
acting to comedy to the two things that you've said
for show people that she hasn't even seen. This is
becoming one of my favorite episodes. Like for so many ways,
my producers are going to be like crying. All right,
wait a second, so many things are being said. So
here's what I think. So I read the book Anna
about Anna Winter and or going everyone and I don't care.
(14:43):
This is amazing. So I my perception of she's going
to be the hbic in fashion, no matter whether you
agree or not, Like I'm going to say, she knows
a fucking thing or two about fashion, So she seems
to feel that fashion should be like effortless and who
you truly are. It doesn't mean that you're not going
to make an effort, but it needs to seem like
(15:04):
it's sort of truthful and like intrinsic to who you are.
And I was going to mention this about the glamour
that's dripping, like I don't even think it's glamorous because
I think it's a costume. And I don't think that
people who are truly fashionable look like it was a
painstaking effort to be chic. I think people that are chic,
you know, where things they make highs and lows, like
(15:27):
you didn't just go and become this like Chanelle clown,
like playing dress up. So I agree with you. I
feel like it's so weird and so forced and like
it's outlandish and it's not that chic or fashionable. That's
what I think I liked, or I mean out notary,
and I like, I think she's pretty and I appreciate
the effort, but it seems stupid to me.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Well, I think it's also what it is is that
it's a kind of armor that when you're going to
war or you have to wear protective gear. So her
arming herself in all of these kinds of signals is
a kind of armor, like just you know, don't come
for me because I you don't want to try it.
If I put this much effort into the defensiveness of
(16:11):
speaking Italian, showing that I've been here before, showing that
I know, because she does know, right, so she knows
these all these things that what to do, and you know,
it is a kind of armored car approach. I'm going
to bring all these things instead of being outwardly aggressive,
(16:31):
I'm going to armor myself with all these tools, which
I think is interesting.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Wait a minute. First of all, yes, and also it's
a distraction and something to talk about. But she makes
fun of Kyle for ordering a margarita when she's ordered
a Vaka soda. But she's wearing Chanel, which is French.
I didn't even think of that. Why she should have
done a whole eye when I got to When I
go to Australia, I wear Zimmerman, I wear sass and
(16:55):
by like, I am not door read, but I would
know to all if I was going for it, I
would wear all Italian designers.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
So yeah, she would be better off again, not better
off necessarily, but first off to your you know whatever,
I mean, it's just more but it's it's less about that.
It's more like she's gonna arm herself with all these
ideas of correctness even though it's not necessarily correct.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Yes, now, okay, so first of all, this is something
just inside for people watching that the type of hotel
and first restaurant they went to is very illustrative of
this being like the only place in Italy that would
allow clearance. Like that hotel that they were trying to
(17:40):
make fetch happen was weird, like what didn't feel like
and authentically amazing at the level Real Housewives of Beverly
Hills hotel. To me, I hadn't heard. If it doesn't
mean it wasn't nice, it just means it was like
a weird choice that was sort of modern. And then
the first restaurant they went to where they serve cheeseburgers,
seemed like I'm thinking on Dos, which I love the
(18:02):
on Does, but it's like a little like sort of modern,
non intrinsic to the place that it is. Does that
make any sense what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Well, it was giving business travel. Yeah, really it was
really giving like oh we want it's like hotel group
as opposed to like really super chic, beautiful epicheon or whatever.
You know. It was not giving history. It was definitely
giving business comfort for the business travel.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Yes, the smartest big guest I've ever had on Yes,
I went to one of those ink hotels Eye End,
and it's like it's nice, but you don't know what
kind of nice it's giving. You're right, it's giving business,
not four and a half four point two five stars.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Yeah, you know there's pringles in the mini bar. Yeah,
like it's seriously, it's like an old kind bar and condom. Yes,
it's very it's it's.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Very yes exactly. And the burghers and the pina colada
at the first restaurant. It's that kind of place you're
going on a business trip dinner. That was fucking genius.
And they're not going to say anything bad or or
anything bad about the weirdness of it because the producers
are cutting and the editors are cutting that out because
it was the only play. This is like the producer saying, sorry,
this is the only place we could clear. So yeah,
(19:13):
so now also the wind choosing this is like also,
just so you know, when you go on trips on
The Housewives, unless you're Ramona Singer, who can make anything
into something like that's good because it's a free trip.
The trips are dreadful. You've gotten off a plane. You
must get ready, you've got a film.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
You know.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Lisa Rinnaut, who's a germophobe, has her sneakers on the couch,
which is making me throw up. Like she's literally wipes
everything down at her bottom of her sneakers is on
her couch. She's just so gross and like you have
to turn it around quick and go to dinner at
a shitty restaurant and wear winter coats because that's the
time of year that they decided to do the trips
and so like you're there and it's freezing, but you
(19:54):
still want to like force your fashion.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Yeah, it's very hard. It's I could just see the hiredness.
I see the jet lag, you know, having to get
into hair and makeup after you get off of this
like transatlantic flight. I'm not only it's too continent. It's
from La and then across Europe to Italy. It's just
a very grueling trip. And then to have to go
on and you know, like when Denise and Garcela are
(20:20):
calling from the airport, you know, going to the hotel,
and then they show up at the dinner, it's a
to me. I was like, oh, I felt so much
empathy for them because that's like a good forty eight
hours a week.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
You know, it felt strange.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Yeah, it's so hard.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Yeah, and you felt too hydrated, Garcel I had, you know,
So I know I've met Garcel in my life and
I met I saw her at a party before she
was going on and now is the first time I've
ever seen her on because I don't watch regularly. And
I liked her, like she's she is the straw that
stirs the drink. She kind of gives no fox and
she comes in and I just like her energy about it.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Yeah, I'm based. I find her very attractive. I think
she's really beautiful. I can't really see much pacifying, like
every time I see her on screen, like, oh, she's
very attractive.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
She's very attractive and very yeah, and she's not afraid
to express her opinion, and I'd like it. And I
also have known, which this is for the viewers, because
you wouldn't know. And Eric has been through a bad
scandal and in real life, and she was lighter and
happier back in this time. She's a little more angry
(21:28):
as in her Housewive Housewives persona, and she's a fighter
and she's a warrior. But I noticed she seems lighter
in these shows and she is given. I'm giving her
the credit for bringing in the costumery of the show,
like she's the one who brought it in, like not
even on this episode, like in this franchise, she brought
(21:48):
it in and made everybody else step up what I
don't even know if it's stepping up, but change their
game and have glam squads and wear weird hairdos and
wear costumes into the lobby, so that she gets full
credit for it, all copying her all of that.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
She always looks to me like an ice cream Sunday
or some kind of confection she's giving like barrels where
you get thirty one scoops, like because she gives it
like so many things on top, like it's just the
the makeup and the hair, but the hair has like
this architectural structure to it. Like there's one where she's
doing the kind of where she's giving the recap sort of,
(22:23):
but she's got the one hair like it.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
It's like it's a block architectural. It's architectural, I.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Know, so curated. It's very She looks also like just
like a painting like a or an illustration from a
nineteen eighties playboy, like a Sriyama figure, Like it's a
very it's it's really beautiful, but it's like almost can't
see past it. In the same way. Durita is like
so curated. So's Erica.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
She's very good, both of them. To say, it started
with Erica Dorried stepped up her game and wanted to
have her own thing. So hair became her own thing,
and she really keeps up with it because it takes maintenance,
it takes money, it takes like management and a hair
person and whatever. And this is before Erica ran into
some financial trouble because of the scandal. So back then
she's recorded saying that she spends fifty thousand a month
(23:13):
on glam. Like that's rolling very deep, and the show
is not even paying you that much. And so this
is like saying, if we build it, they will come,
like we'll spend this money to have this persona and
hopefully the money on the show and deals will come.
And the next one to fall was Lisa Rinna and
you see it here with her wig because she's very
close friends with Erica, so she used to wear in
(23:34):
the first couple of seasons, like her short signature hairdo
and sheath dresses, yes, and so now she's coming in
with a costume and she does a lot of like
alter ego and her name is whoever, and like a
lot of this like role playing stuff. And this is
the last of the era where we'll see Kyle dressing
quote unquote normally she doesn't get up to this level,
(23:56):
but where every single shot is of an Ara Mez
Burken bag and she's wearing Alex Perry, this Australian designer,
like severe shoulders and small waists and dramatic makeup and
more intentional constructed hair, like they all sort of fall
(24:19):
F's and GE's head to toe, like everybody starts falling in,
but it started with Erica. Second to fall was dor
third was Lisa Rinna and they all come in and
it's like a different planet.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Well, you have to fall into the culture. It's like
any kind of a workplace. You kind of start to
come into a culture and then everybody copies it or
even like it is kind of high school too, like
when you're invited into the popular table. The girls these
are like kind of like not necessarily the mean girls.
They're just like this popular girl click that they're trying
to get along. Sometimes women together, we get these rivalries
(24:57):
and we need things to like beat up each other's
like ideas of who we are with. That is style.
Like sometimes that's like the the main weapon that we have.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Oh yes, you're right. It's a level of competition that's
not happening elsewhere, Like that did not happen on New York.
We all wanted to look good. And as you're on
the show for longer and people are commenting and you're
realizing you are actually on television. So don't hate the player,
hate the game. You're caring more and hating when you
see you look shitty in your black circles and whatever.
(25:28):
This city it's another level. And it is like even
saying I'm dressing casual, that's a best like that, that's
like you have pearls affixed to your head, Like, yeah,
that's not casual. Not that Kyle's gonna change the outfit
that she, you know, cultivated at home with a team
of stylists in the moment, but still like whoa dude,
(25:53):
Yeah you want people to be yeah, and then people
are gonna be jealous and ooh that looks great. But
like you're secretly it's totally its own version of like battle.
You're right, yes, and Denise, I would not be able
to keep up. I can tell you that. I mean,
if I made effort that way, I just it's not
who I am. I don't want that. But Denise has
really just sort of stuck to her own being casual
(26:16):
in this group antics even for New York, and like
it looks out of place, it just does. Well.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Denise is so unnaturally beautiful, I mean preternaturally. She is
so beautiful and has been so beautiful her entire life
that I don't think that she's used to having to
armor herself in the same way as other women, because
when you're that beautiful, and she's still beautiful in the
same way, I don't think any age has actually changed her.
(26:45):
I think she looks better, but she is so beautiful
that the beauty privilege you see with her is real
because she doesn't have to try as hard in so
many ways, she doesn't really need to because people will
automatically see her as more genuine, automatically see here as kinder,
automatically open doors just because of the beauty factor.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Interesting. I think that, And you know, these people that
like are very natural and they walk around very natural
because they just know and because they've been a Bond girl.
But I think like it is a little at a
place which is weird because it would have been more
in place in like Orange County or in New York.
And I would say Sutton, And when I see them
at that dinner downstairs, I think Sutton and garcel are
(27:28):
dressed appropriately in life in Italy and in that show
also like they still look stunning and have luxury items on,
but it doesn't look like they're coming down in a
costume party for like Brigerton. It doesn't look weird to
me and uncomfortable. I think fashion should be comfortable.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Right, But Sutton and Garcela have nothing to prove right.
They actually don't come with an agenda neither of them do.
They're kind of along for the ride and allow things
to happen as they will. They let they chick where
they may. Yeah, everybody else has has some kind of
agenda of what they want to do, including Denise. I think,
even though she's incredibly beautiful, she's like also a little
(28:10):
bit like why do I have to make this effort?
Why would I? She's always sort of like defiant. Yeah,
defiant is like why do I have to be pulled
along here? I'm actually okay with who I am. I'm
actually okay with all of this I want. But she's
still trying to defend herself somehow.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Right now, Okay, now this is gonna get interesting. So
Lisa's the chesher cat, and everyone's tiptoeing around this at
this dinner and it's always gonna come to the surface,
and it's awkward and like no one can just They're
all in like the worst version of foreplay. It's the
worst tickling ever. It's like tickling in circular motions. It's
repetitive and like not fun for anybody involved, and it's
(28:48):
just like, get fucking get to the main act and
and it's just awkward. And this is this is a
thought that I had. And I know she's a good
actress and I like her, but the thought that I
have is, God, Denise is a bad actress in this
particular scene, like this is not her best acting role. Like,
first of all, on in life and in Housewives, the
(29:10):
least interested party always wins, so like by doing the Bravo, Bravo,
fucking bravo, by making this weird face like you have
no idea what they're talking about, by further incriminating yourself
by saying like you're not friends and you don't even
like really know Brandy. All of it is just so
cringe where if someone said to me, you know, you
(29:30):
had sex with my husband, I'd be like, Okay, now
what are we gonna do? Like I once took the
bait in a in a dispute about someone copying my
business name, and it was so stupid to take the bait.
Carol RADSBLL was accused of not writing her book and
she went down the rabbit hole by taking the bait
like this was a classic example of fully taking the bait.
(29:52):
And the more you talk about it negatively, defensively, positively, bravo.
Braha Bravo, it's gonna air if you just act like
it's nothing, it w Yeah, it won't be. They really
made something into something major. So that's what I mean.
I thought Denise like handled it so poorly.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
You're so right, and it's not so it be It's
less like tickling and more like a lymphatic massage where
you just pissed. Right, you just have to be all
over the situation and then make that all your own,
like a peede on it. Now it's mine. And so yeah,
if like you're so right, like if she had not
(30:30):
made it a non issue and then it wouldn't have
been a big deal, but she got so defensive.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Let's you and I acted out. Okay, who do you
want to play?
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Oh? I could be Denise.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Okay, you be Denise. I want to be Teddy. I'll
just be Teddy and like other characters and if you
want to be another character too, just like if we
pick up a little bit and that's not our own,
because we're I'm not you know, Eddie Murphy or like
Tyler Parry. So okay, well you know it's going to
come out. It's going to come out because like and
I just want to tell you, because like it's out
(31:11):
there and if you don't want it out there, like
it's going to come out.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Well, I I.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
I've what like, do you do know something?
Speaker 2 (31:23):
No, I don't even know her. I mean I've met
her a little bit, but I don't even I've never
talked to her. I mean we've never even talked. But wait,
no Ian.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Defensive? Like you seem a little defensive.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Why no, Yes, I'm married. I'm very I'm very married.
I would not know.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
All right, So now let's do it. Now, let's do it.
What we should have? Like what we should I mean,
I'll be teddy as I should have. Okay, listen, I
heard you said some shit about us and that you
had an affair with Brandy. It's going to come to
the surf this. Don't hate the player, hate the game.
This is what we're doing. So it's gonna come to
the surface. So let's just rip the band aid off here.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Okay, Okay, Well, if that's fine, you can say whatever
you want. That's fine.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Wait, so, like, what do you like? You don't even care?
Speaker 2 (32:19):
No, why would I care? It doesn't matter. Say whatever
you want. Yes, I did good. If you want to
believe that that's.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Fine, okay, Right, it would be exactly that, that's okay, okay,
and then they'd talk behind in another scene but like
you're not gonna get as much juice out of that lemon.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
So she in business and in life, do not take
the bait and do not go keep her go down deeper.
She's not. She's not good at thinking, producing, and doing
it all at the same time, because if she were,
she'd know, shut the fuck up. Cool, her minds prevail.
And but I'm gonna tell you something. Bravo, Bravo, fucking bravo.
It's a new world now. Back in my day on
(32:59):
Scary Island a scene with Kelly bensimone when she had
what people described as a breakdown. And I'm not gonna
speak out of school because I just don't want to
say that, but it seemed like something otherwise was going on,
and it seemed like she might like go visit somewhere
after this scene because it was insane, and they really
didn't show it. They showed about thirty five percent of
what went on. It was insane. But what she did
(33:20):
was she was like Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt,
Matt Matt Matt, which was called a producer and because
of her well being and because she was saying Matt,
they stopped the scene. Twenty twenty three Bravo with where
twenty twenty three Bravo ratings are they don't stop scenes. Yeah,
so Bravo, Bravo, fucking bro And they break the fourth
wall and they don't care if a producer speaks, because
(33:41):
you heard a producer speak to Teddy in an interview.
The show must go on.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Yeah, yeah, and it's I mean, I guess like the
more uh sort of breaking down that fourth wall has
become like they're so secret of that success, you know,
because people do want to see the damage that goes
on underneath, and you know, even if it's sort of manufactured.
So I think that's it. It's an interesting point.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
And that scene is part of the reason why Denise
Richards left the show. Like, think about that, and you know,
it's any skeletons that you have will come out on
the show. It's a zero sum game. Someone's always winning
and someone's always losing. And you literally could look at
it like predators and prey. You watch or like trolls
(34:32):
on Twitter and you watch like there's a lot of
blood in one area and then all the hosts come
to suck the blood off that one thing. So in
that moment, Denise is the host.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Yeah. Yeah, and it is like she's putting her own
blood in the water with the Brava. You know, she's
actually signaling to the predators. But then you know it's
also like, I also genuinely don't believe that she had
sex with Brandy. I really can't.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
That's funny that you say that, and you have an
instinct here, that's an interesting Okay, do you think you
have institutional knowledge or you're just you're just anyone in
the world having that.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Ims don't fuck like that, you know, like them's are
very bems just don't fuck like that. It's just a
different I don't know, like coming from a gay perspective,
I don't I don't smell a gay a gay intimacy.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Man, woman here, you are one of the smartest guests,
Like you are very literal, like myself. You've seem very
literal and very analytical about anything I.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Try I try to be. I mean, it's all very
interesting to me, especially if it's a world that I
don't know anything about. Like I just try to apply
my knowledge to what I'm seeing.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
You're perfect, Like I gotta tell you, you're one of
the people that the producers is gonna get off, like,
oh my god, she was amazing and like I'll be like,
we should have her again. Because there are certain people
that come on. There are certain people that come on
and act like I pluck them out of a supermarket
and threw them on here. They've never seen a show,
and they're like these people, I don't know why these
people talk like this, fight life, this, act like this.
It's like boring. And there are some people, but you
(35:58):
are the like Quince, You're the most crystallized version of
this person that come on and they've looked they've landed
on another planet and are really like observing this planet
and have a really entertaining opinion. And that's where you fall.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Oh thank you.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Well.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
The show really, what I've seen reminds me of professional wrestling.
You know, you have the story and they're like kind
of they wear all these costumes and they're there to
fight and not necessary so all sort of like story
entertain and entertain and create it in order to entertain
the audience. It's not necessarily really happening, but there are
really real phillies of animalsy behind it. There are rivalries
(36:35):
between these pro wrestlers that exist, and then these stories
that they're playing their costumes exacerbate that.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
So it's sensationalized entertainment. And I think one time I
would love to have you on to talk about New
York because it's a very different animal and having seen this,
you would see like a big difference. You're you're just
like a sociology expert on this, I could already tell fascinating.
So well, tell me what you're working on now?
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Right now with my show Live and Livid, I'm I'm
doing stand up comedy all over so you can find
out about everything that I'm going to be doing at
Margaret Chow dot com. And I'm actually about to start
another film. But I just finished working on Life and
Beth with Amy Schumer.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Oh yeah, I saw it. I saw I love it.
I love Amy Schumer too.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
She's great and it's a it's a really great new season.
So that's going to be coming up on Hulu and
so that that's, uh, what's happening. I'm also going to
be on Call Me Kat, which is a great show
with my Ambiolic. I love her and so that's really fun.
So just working and you're always working enjoying. Yeah, like
lots of different things. But I really love doing stand
(37:44):
up comedy and doing acting. So that's my my joys.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Nice. I think you're amazing, and I love this show
and my other show because I get to really like
get a sense for someone and.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Oh, thank you so much. I'm really happy to meet you.
And this is really.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Cool, really fun, awesome. We learned a lot about life.
That's why I like it. It's not trashing these women
or the show. It's more about like a sociology, like
looking at wildlife and commenting on it.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
It is. It's so fascinating and it's really I mean,
it's our version of sort of like war stories, is
that they are going to war every time. They kind
of connect with each other, all of these women. So
it's exciting to.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
See amazing, awesome, awesome, one of my favorite guests on
the show. So surprising, not because it's you, but because
you hadn't watched and it's just like amazing, so wonderful, wonderful, wonderful,
Thank you, and have a terrific day.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Thank you awesome.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Margaret Show was amazing because sometimes people come on here
and they act like, you know, I put a hot
poker on their ass to come on and talk about
a show that they've never seen, and like, well these
people and who would be like? And then sometimes people
come on and they're uber fans, like and Elizabeth Moss,
and it's funny to see this like Emmy Award, you know,
winning actress talk about something so ridiculous. And then once
(38:52):
in a while you get a gem, a hidden gem,
a person who has never seen it but like puts
their back into it, analyzes, you know, it's like it's
like they're doing like a thesis on house wivalry. And
that is Margaret Show. The way she described so many things,
from fashion to personality to I mean dynamics, sexuality, brilliant.
(39:15):
Margaret Show's one of my new favorite people. You will
probably hear her on here again because she's amazing and
I loved it
The Ladies of Beverly Hills are taking the drama to Italy.
When Teddy drops a bomb at dinner in Rome, Denise
breaks the fourth wall and coins the term Bravo, Bravo,
fucking bravo. Comedian actress and musician Margaret Cho joins me
to break down the episode. This is the Real Housewives
of Beverly Hills Season ten, episode twelve. Roman rumors. So
(00:35):
this is your first Housewives episode ever?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Yes, and just at being like sort of in the universe.
What do you know about it? Do you ever read
about it in pop culture? Do you know who the
people are? Or is this like a bunch of strangers?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I know garcel I find Garcelle very attractive. I did
her podcast and I know maybe it's uh him from
End of the Lost.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Oh okay, that's funny.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
And Denise from Wild Things. I also have listed to
full episode renditions like theatrical productions by Bowen Yang and
Matt Rogers, who would tried me and make fun of
me for never seeing the show, and they would recreate
(01:27):
they know episodes lined by line and would recreate full
scenes for me all the time, and they still do,
which I mean, I just don't watch a lot of unscripted,
so it's just never my point of contact with pop cult.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
I don't either, by the way, And that's funny that
you like unscripted makes it sound so fancy and documentary, like.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Well it is, it isn't.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Well that's what that brings me to the first question,
which I didn't I would ask, but what do you
think because the people that you mentioned are all actresses,
So I have not really said aloud yet that on
Beverly Hills you have Denise Richards, Kyle, you had Kim
that's three, Lisa Rennis four Garcel So I know it's
(02:19):
Beverly Hills, but you have five actresses on a quote
unquote reality show. What do you think of that concept?
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Well, actresses really shining because they know when the camera's on,
they know what's going to be perceived by the camera.
And also they're kind of re emerging as a version
of themselves, so you can sort of tell that they're
playing these archetypes that are not necessarily entirely themselves, even
(02:50):
though there is a suspension of disbelief in the audience
we're watching it as we're assuming this is the real person.
I mean, there's definitely aspects of it. But when you
can say something like bravo, brah ba bravo and stop
the action, we can't do that in real life.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
That's interesting. Well, but they yeah, well this is interesting
that you say that. Well, two things one right, like
it doesn't matter anymore. It doesn't matter that Housewives aren't matter,
I mean, aren't married. It's sort of just this entertainment
vehicle that has that name. And it doesn't matter if
people are even acting, because no one would wear the
(03:27):
clothing that these people wear in their hotel restaurant downstairs.
Like you know, you'd be wearing a jean jacket, leather
leggings and boots if you wanted to be cute. But
cameras are on, and there's an absurdity particularly to this one. This,
in my opinion, this not only this episode, but this
marks an era in Housewives where it became ridiculous, Like
(03:48):
my old see what you're wearing right now, when I'm
wearing that, this is what I would have worn in
Housewives in my first five years on, Like you would
just wear this and you do your own makeup, and
you'd sit down and you do the interview in the
interview chair and like you wouldn't be in a costume.
So I'm very old school the way that I talk that.
I'm like old school about bagels and I don't think
they should have fifty bullshit on them and blueberry and
(04:08):
chocolate chip, and like I'm a purist about it. I'm
kind of old school about reality TV. I think it
should be reality. And The Hills was trashed for not
being reality, you know, and in a lot of trouble
about that being staged. And I think that The Housewives
used to be its best when it was really real.
So that's why this is like a different if you
were doing a documentary on Housewives. This the Beverly Hills
(04:33):
cast with Dorrit and Erica in particular, changed the whole
franchise into being more about hair and makeup and glamswads
and costumes.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Right. But it's also like what it makes me think
of is really like Court of the Sun King. Like
it's very Versailles, where we have these like people who
are wealthy or aspired to well, whether they're actually like
financially wealthy or not, whether they're it's more of a
(05:07):
show of it, right, that's more important. So it's a
really interesting thing of like the posturing of wealth as
a form of currency, like not just money currency, but
social class, like elegance, the performative aspect of femininity, beauty
(05:28):
and grace. And so it's like it is like the
court of the king. It's it's kind of like the
way that we want to see royals at So we
were not allowed to go into the royals chambers to
see how they so what we get to go into
the Housewives.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Very interesting And you're right, and there are these different
things like if to someone who should do a documentary
on the Housewives, it should I'm going to actually write
that down because I'm thinking about like the different versions.
So for example, Beverly Hills, a cast member is like
the be like the bags and the palatial, because in
New York City you could have one of those housewives.
(06:07):
The value of a real Housewives of Beverly Hills house
in an apartment would not seem as grand because a
New York City apartment it could be like five thousand
square feet and be twelve million dollars and that's going
to look much bigger. And forget when you get to
Atlanta and they're in the outskirts, and you could have
one point eight million dollar house that looks like it's
twenty that is twenty thousand square feet. So there are
all these different things that these different cities bring. In
(06:30):
Beverly Hills is bringing this massive gland. But in particular,
if you look at Dori and in what she used to
wear season one, or when Denise Richards came in in
the beginning, she was like wearing t shirt and shorts
to go to someone's balcony at a hotel room when
Erica and Dorie made it costume like and then you
see all the other women following suits. So Lisa Renne
(06:51):
being in a wig, in that crazy eyeshadow and leopard,
that's not how she used to dress on the show.
She's trying to keep up with the Joneses in wardrobe
and in fact on the show, which makes it intense.
I would not I would hate that part.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Well, Lisa Renna. It's so funny because I just know
her in such a humble manner from to me, she's
still the shopkeeper on Ventura.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Ah, you know, like.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
I just I'm like, oh, I went to her store
to buy a juicy couture jumpsuit. Like I'm very like, Oh,
that's the lady that sells the the Loure, you know,
like it's a very like to me, it's a very
Oh she dances with Louie November.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Same and I knew her, and she did change a little.
She has changed, Like she's different than she was when
she started, which peoples change and evolve. But she's not
that girl anymore.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Well, she's a boss. I mean she still walks around
like she owns the shop, which is great. You know,
it's great for the show. It's great for the culture
of the show because she seems to be the commandeering
aspect and she does a catalyst for a lot of
things in conversations and events, including this trip.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Right. Okay, so you're the I've talked more with you
about like the whole Zeite case of it than anyone.
But anyway, okay, So that's finnyly that you say that,
because you know, you hear that, like Lisa Rinnat in
the past was the one who drove the charge of
the Munchausen's argument. You don't have to know what it was,
but you saw that, and in the past she drove
the charge puppy Gate. Even last season, she you know,
(08:18):
explained this dramatic conversation with she and hat Kathy Hilton,
and she got post traumatic stress disorder from it and
she needed to bring it into the group. So she
always sort of has this dramatic way of acting like
it's her social responsibility to bring something into the group.
So in this case, it's her responsibility to bring in
(08:40):
the fact that Denise may have had an affair with
another former housewife when she's married, and they use the
bullshit like did she say bad things about three other housewives?
And who gives a shit? Because everybody talks about other housewives.
They use that bullshit vehicle to like get us to
how do we talk on this show about this possible affair.
(09:02):
So I want to get into that and go at
it a bunch of different ways, but I want to
start with Lisa Rinna. But the resounding thought that I
had overall was who gives a shit what she does?
And she can have an affair. But they all acted
like this was like this you know, looming responsibility. Everybody
had to talk about this affair. And Lisa Renna was
driving the charge in the car in the beginning when
(09:22):
she's like, oh, I don't know what to do. I
don't know what to do with this information.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Well, this is perfect for Lisa because she was the
one that when you go back to her store on Ventura,
she would create the window display. So every time I
would see her, she would be out in front putting
the outfits in different combinations on the mannequins. So this
is basically what she's doing in the show. She's bringing
you into the show, into their personalities and their dysfunction
so that you'll come in and buy the story.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Ah, you genius, Margaret show you are the perfect three
wives guests. Wow, I love an analogy, a metaphor. I
love the f You're brilliant. Yes she is.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
She's accessorizing the details. She's using their personalities against each
other so that people will be drawn further into the
story of what's going on, and the other characters will
be drawn further into the clothes she's putting on them,
the clothes meeting these ideas and scandals that they're wearing around.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Yes, and you have, and you're right because she's at
least own it, Like she's the one who says own it.
She's like driving and she's owning it and she's giving
us some meat to eat off the bone. And this
is you're seeing a lot of the characters in true form.
And so what I mean by that is Kyle's like
sort of like rolling her eyes a little because she
has tremendous opinions, but she's not going to share them
because she needs to be the Kyle that's been on
(10:39):
since season one that has always liked them. We'll get
a little dirty, but never too dirty. And Teddy's sort
of always feigning ignorance and like is that sort of
like awe shucksness about it, And like I don't want
the responsibility, but it's my responsibility because it's accountability to
bring this matter into the forefront. So like at least
Lisa is like coming out with it, but like other
(11:00):
a hide behind the ways, you know to because they're
playing to many audiences, so they're playing to each other
and they're playing to us as viewers, and the viewer's
so smart. So Lisa's driving, Teddy's like in the bullshit seat,
and Kyle's just like, oh, I don't know, you know,
rolling the eyes and only getting a little bit so dirty.
So Teddy, the first thing I wrote on my notes
(11:23):
here you know, because I always write on like scrawl
on piece of paper when I'm watching that I hope
I'll be able to read the next day. Teddy is
the shit stir that hides. That's what I wrote. So so,
But also you don't know Brandy Glanville. She's not the
best source that everybody you know, it's not the Wall
Street Journal, it's Brandy Glanville. They're like a whole show
(11:45):
is hanging on that. Brandy Glanfill's giving us all of
these pearls of wisdom, wisdom, but.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
She speaks with such conviction. I mean, the Brandy, even
though she's unreliable, is a witness. She's a convincing witness.
And then everybody seems to believe everything that she's saying.
And then coming back and I feel sorry for Teddy
because Teddy seems like sort of like the innocent bystander
who's just out of her like out of her depth
(12:11):
of what to.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Do with these people.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
She's just like uh uh. And then Kyle's very judgmental too.
Kyle's very like Kyle's classic dark brunette, Like a dark
brunette always is the voice of reason and like, okay,
go ahead, go ahead, all right, this is I guess
this is what we're doing, okay.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
In real life? Does like where does this rate on?
Like who gives a shit? And like real or actual?
Note like real not like normal like normal gossip circles,
like what on a one to ten of who gives
a shit? Like so someone may or may not have
had like a single moment with another actress they're both hot,
(13:02):
Like where does this matter in real normal life?
Speaker 2 (13:05):
I guess it matters in that like what are people
even thinking of me? And I think this is like
a classic fear that everybody has when they go on
a girl's trip. It's like we don't want to be
singled out. And it's almost like is this is this
a real friendship or are we just trying to outdo
each other with drama, out do each other with outfits,
out do each other with pearls in the hair with
(13:27):
dorry during the perfect like Chanelle hair moment, which is
so over over the top. They're like dinner and race.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
But by the way, it's also shitty af to say
that you're dressed in casual. I would not have that
much of a look. I swear to you on my
life at the Mechala, my hair look wouldn't be that intense,
Like I promise you that was insane. It's stupid. It's like,
you know, when you're so hungry, you're not even hungry anymore,
Like it's so beyond the pale that you like have
(13:58):
to almost celebrate it. It's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Yes, well, and she's not really true to this Chanelle
archetype because Chanelle is really about sportswear that is very
much going from the sporting event to a night out.
So it's about jersey, it's about it's about casual nests. Actually,
So the real aesthetic of Chanel isn't that polished. She's
(14:20):
doing more like a car Lagerfeld.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
I love you. So the range that you have from
acting to comedy to the two things that you've said
for show people that she hasn't even seen. This is
becoming one of my favorite episodes. Like for so many ways,
my producers are going to be like crying. All right,
wait a second, so many things are being said. So
here's what I think. So I read the book Anna
about Anna Winter and or going everyone and I don't care.
(14:43):
This is amazing. So I my perception of she's going
to be the hbic in fashion, no matter whether you
agree or not, Like I'm going to say, she knows
a fucking thing or two about fashion, So she seems
to feel that fashion should be like effortless and who
you truly are. It doesn't mean that you're not going
to make an effort, but it needs to seem like
(15:04):
it's sort of truthful and like intrinsic to who you are.
And I was going to mention this about the glamour
that's dripping, like I don't even think it's glamorous because
I think it's a costume. And I don't think that
people who are truly fashionable look like it was a
painstaking effort to be chic. I think people that are chic,
you know, where things they make highs and lows, like
(15:27):
you didn't just go and become this like Chanelle clown,
like playing dress up. So I agree with you. I
feel like it's so weird and so forced and like
it's outlandish and it's not that chic or fashionable. That's
what I think I liked, or I mean out notary,
and I like, I think she's pretty and I appreciate
the effort, but it seems stupid to me.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Well, I think it's also what it is is that
it's a kind of armor that when you're going to
war or you have to wear protective gear. So her
arming herself in all of these kinds of signals is
a kind of armor, like just you know, don't come
for me because I you don't want to try it.
If I put this much effort into the defensiveness of
(16:11):
speaking Italian, showing that I've been here before, showing that
I know, because she does know, right, so she knows
these all these things that what to do, and you know,
it is a kind of armored car approach. I'm going
to bring all these things instead of being outwardly aggressive,
(16:31):
I'm going to armor myself with all these tools, which
I think is interesting.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Wait a minute. First of all, yes, and also it's
a distraction and something to talk about. But she makes
fun of Kyle for ordering a margarita when she's ordered
a Vaka soda. But she's wearing Chanel, which is French.
I didn't even think of that. Why she should have
done a whole eye when I got to When I
go to Australia, I wear Zimmerman, I wear sass and
(16:55):
by like, I am not door read, but I would
know to all if I was going for it, I
would wear all Italian designers.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
So yeah, she would be better off again, not better
off necessarily, but first off to your you know whatever,
I mean, it's just more but it's it's less about that.
It's more like she's gonna arm herself with all these
ideas of correctness even though it's not necessarily correct.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Yes, now, okay, so first of all, this is something
just inside for people watching that the type of hotel
and first restaurant they went to is very illustrative of
this being like the only place in Italy that would
allow clearance. Like that hotel that they were trying to
(17:40):
make fetch happen was weird, like what didn't feel like
and authentically amazing at the level Real Housewives of Beverly
Hills hotel. To me, I hadn't heard. If it doesn't
mean it wasn't nice, it just means it was like
a weird choice that was sort of modern. And then
the first restaurant they went to where they serve cheeseburgers,
seemed like I'm thinking on Dos, which I love the
(18:02):
on Does, but it's like a little like sort of modern,
non intrinsic to the place that it is. Does that
make any sense what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Well, it was giving business travel. Yeah, really it was
really giving like oh we want it's like hotel group
as opposed to like really super chic, beautiful epicheon or whatever.
You know. It was not giving history. It was definitely
giving business comfort for the business travel.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Yes, the smartest big guest I've ever had on Yes,
I went to one of those ink hotels Eye End,
and it's like it's nice, but you don't know what
kind of nice it's giving. You're right, it's giving business,
not four and a half four point two five stars.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Yeah, you know there's pringles in the mini bar. Yeah,
like it's seriously, it's like an old kind bar and condom. Yes,
it's very it's it's.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Very yes exactly. And the burghers and the pina colada
at the first restaurant. It's that kind of place you're
going on a business trip dinner. That was fucking genius.
And they're not going to say anything bad or or
anything bad about the weirdness of it because the producers
are cutting and the editors are cutting that out because
it was the only play. This is like the producer saying, sorry,
this is the only place we could clear. So yeah,
(19:13):
so now also the wind choosing this is like also,
just so you know, when you go on trips on
The Housewives, unless you're Ramona Singer, who can make anything
into something like that's good because it's a free trip.
The trips are dreadful. You've gotten off a plane. You
must get ready, you've got a film.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
You know.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Lisa Rinnaut, who's a germophobe, has her sneakers on the couch,
which is making me throw up. Like she's literally wipes
everything down at her bottom of her sneakers is on
her couch. She's just so gross and like you have
to turn it around quick and go to dinner at
a shitty restaurant and wear winter coats because that's the
time of year that they decided to do the trips
and so like you're there and it's freezing, but you
(19:54):
still want to like force your fashion.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Yeah, it's very hard. It's I could just see the hiredness.
I see the jet lag, you know, having to get
into hair and makeup after you get off of this
like transatlantic flight. I'm not only it's too continent. It's
from La and then across Europe to Italy. It's just
a very grueling trip. And then to have to go
on and you know, like when Denise and Garcela are
(20:20):
calling from the airport, you know, going to the hotel,
and then they show up at the dinner, it's a
to me. I was like, oh, I felt so much
empathy for them because that's like a good forty eight
hours a week.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
You know, it felt strange.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Yeah, it's so hard.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Yeah, and you felt too hydrated, Garcel I had, you know,
So I know I've met Garcel in my life and
I met I saw her at a party before she
was going on and now is the first time I've
ever seen her on because I don't watch regularly. And
I liked her, like she's she is the straw that
stirs the drink. She kind of gives no fox and
she comes in and I just like her energy about it.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Yeah, I'm based. I find her very attractive. I think
she's really beautiful. I can't really see much pacifying, like
every time I see her on screen, like, oh, she's
very attractive.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
She's very attractive and very yeah, and she's not afraid
to express her opinion, and I'd like it. And I
also have known, which this is for the viewers, because
you wouldn't know. And Eric has been through a bad
scandal and in real life, and she was lighter and
happier back in this time. She's a little more angry
(21:28):
as in her Housewive Housewives persona, and she's a fighter
and she's a warrior. But I noticed she seems lighter
in these shows and she is given. I'm giving her
the credit for bringing in the costumery of the show,
like she's the one who brought it in, like not
even on this episode, like in this franchise, she brought
(21:48):
it in and made everybody else step up what I
don't even know if it's stepping up, but change their
game and have glam squads and wear weird hairdos and
wear costumes into the lobby, so that she gets full
credit for it, all copying her all of that.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
She always looks to me like an ice cream Sunday
or some kind of confection she's giving like barrels where
you get thirty one scoops, like because she gives it
like so many things on top, like it's just the
the makeup and the hair, but the hair has like
this architectural structure to it. Like there's one where she's
doing the kind of where she's giving the recap sort of,
(22:23):
but she's got the one hair like it.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
It's like it's a block architectural. It's architectural, I.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Know, so curated. It's very She looks also like just
like a painting like a or an illustration from a
nineteen eighties playboy, like a Sriyama figure, Like it's a
very it's it's really beautiful, but it's like almost can't
see past it. In the same way. Durita is like
so curated. So's Erica.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
She's very good, both of them. To say, it started
with Erica Dorried stepped up her game and wanted to
have her own thing. So hair became her own thing,
and she really keeps up with it because it takes maintenance,
it takes money, it takes like management and a hair
person and whatever. And this is before Erica ran into
some financial trouble because of the scandal. So back then
she's recorded saying that she spends fifty thousand a month
(23:13):
on glam. Like that's rolling very deep, and the show
is not even paying you that much. And so this
is like saying, if we build it, they will come,
like we'll spend this money to have this persona and
hopefully the money on the show and deals will come.
And the next one to fall was Lisa Rinna and
you see it here with her wig because she's very
close friends with Erica, so she used to wear in
(23:34):
the first couple of seasons, like her short signature hairdo
and sheath dresses, yes, and so now she's coming in
with a costume and she does a lot of like
alter ego and her name is whoever, and like a
lot of this like role playing stuff. And this is
the last of the era where we'll see Kyle dressing
quote unquote normally she doesn't get up to this level,
(23:56):
but where every single shot is of an Ara Mez
Burken bag and she's wearing Alex Perry, this Australian designer,
like severe shoulders and small waists and dramatic makeup and
more intentional constructed hair, like they all sort of fall
(24:19):
F's and GE's head to toe, like everybody starts falling in,
but it started with Erica. Second to fall was dor
third was Lisa Rinna and they all come in and
it's like a different planet.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Well, you have to fall into the culture. It's like
any kind of a workplace. You kind of start to
come into a culture and then everybody copies it or
even like it is kind of high school too, like
when you're invited into the popular table. The girls these
are like kind of like not necessarily the mean girls.
They're just like this popular girl click that they're trying
to get along. Sometimes women together, we get these rivalries
(24:57):
and we need things to like beat up each other's
like ideas of who we are with. That is style.
Like sometimes that's like the the main weapon that we have.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Oh yes, you're right. It's a level of competition that's
not happening elsewhere, Like that did not happen on New York.
We all wanted to look good. And as you're on
the show for longer and people are commenting and you're
realizing you are actually on television. So don't hate the player,
hate the game. You're caring more and hating when you
see you look shitty in your black circles and whatever.
(25:28):
This city it's another level. And it is like even
saying I'm dressing casual, that's a best like that, that's
like you have pearls affixed to your head, Like, yeah,
that's not casual. Not that Kyle's gonna change the outfit
that she, you know, cultivated at home with a team
of stylists in the moment, but still like whoa dude,
(25:53):
Yeah you want people to be yeah, and then people
are gonna be jealous and ooh that looks great. But
like you're secretly it's totally its own version of like battle.
You're right, yes, and Denise, I would not be able
to keep up. I can tell you that. I mean,
if I made effort that way, I just it's not
who I am. I don't want that. But Denise has
really just sort of stuck to her own being casual
(26:16):
in this group antics even for New York, and like
it looks out of place, it just does. Well.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Denise is so unnaturally beautiful, I mean preternaturally. She is
so beautiful and has been so beautiful her entire life
that I don't think that she's used to having to
armor herself in the same way as other women, because
when you're that beautiful, and she's still beautiful in the
same way, I don't think any age has actually changed her.
(26:45):
I think she looks better, but she is so beautiful
that the beauty privilege you see with her is real
because she doesn't have to try as hard in so
many ways, she doesn't really need to because people will
automatically see her as more genuine, automatically see here as kinder,
automatically open doors just because of the beauty factor.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Interesting. I think that, And you know, these people that
like are very natural and they walk around very natural
because they just know and because they've been a Bond girl.
But I think like it is a little at a
place which is weird because it would have been more
in place in like Orange County or in New York.
And I would say Sutton, And when I see them
at that dinner downstairs, I think Sutton and garcel are
(27:28):
dressed appropriately in life in Italy and in that show
also like they still look stunning and have luxury items on,
but it doesn't look like they're coming down in a
costume party for like Brigerton. It doesn't look weird to
me and uncomfortable. I think fashion should be comfortable.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Right, But Sutton and Garcela have nothing to prove right.
They actually don't come with an agenda neither of them do.
They're kind of along for the ride and allow things
to happen as they will. They let they chick where
they may. Yeah, everybody else has has some kind of
agenda of what they want to do, including Denise. I think,
even though she's incredibly beautiful, she's like also a little
(28:10):
bit like why do I have to make this effort?
Why would I? She's always sort of like defiant. Yeah,
defiant is like why do I have to be pulled
along here? I'm actually okay with who I am. I'm
actually okay with all of this I want. But she's
still trying to defend herself somehow.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Right now, Okay, now this is gonna get interesting. So
Lisa's the chesher cat, and everyone's tiptoeing around this at
this dinner and it's always gonna come to the surface,
and it's awkward and like no one can just They're
all in like the worst version of foreplay. It's the
worst tickling ever. It's like tickling in circular motions. It's
repetitive and like not fun for anybody involved, and it's
(28:48):
just like, get fucking get to the main act and
and it's just awkward. And this is this is a
thought that I had. And I know she's a good
actress and I like her, but the thought that I
have is, God, Denise is a bad actress in this
particular scene, like this is not her best acting role. Like,
first of all, on in life and in Housewives, the
(29:10):
least interested party always wins, so like by doing the Bravo, Bravo,
fucking bravo, by making this weird face like you have
no idea what they're talking about, by further incriminating yourself
by saying like you're not friends and you don't even
like really know Brandy. All of it is just so
cringe where if someone said to me, you know, you
(29:30):
had sex with my husband, I'd be like, Okay, now
what are we gonna do? Like I once took the
bait in a in a dispute about someone copying my
business name, and it was so stupid to take the bait.
Carol RADSBLL was accused of not writing her book and
she went down the rabbit hole by taking the bait
like this was a classic example of fully taking the bait.
(29:52):
And the more you talk about it negatively, defensively, positively, bravo.
Braha Bravo, it's gonna air if you just act like
it's nothing, it w Yeah, it won't be. They really
made something into something major. So that's what I mean.
I thought Denise like handled it so poorly.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
You're so right, and it's not so it be It's
less like tickling and more like a lymphatic massage where
you just pissed. Right, you just have to be all
over the situation and then make that all your own,
like a peede on it. Now it's mine. And so yeah,
if like you're so right, like if she had not
(30:30):
made it a non issue and then it wouldn't have
been a big deal, but she got so defensive.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Let's you and I acted out. Okay, who do you
want to play?
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Oh? I could be Denise.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Okay, you be Denise. I want to be Teddy. I'll
just be Teddy and like other characters and if you
want to be another character too, just like if we
pick up a little bit and that's not our own,
because we're I'm not you know, Eddie Murphy or like
Tyler Parry. So okay, well you know it's going to
come out. It's going to come out because like and
I just want to tell you, because like it's out
(31:11):
there and if you don't want it out there, like
it's going to come out.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Well, I I.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
I've what like, do you do know something?
Speaker 2 (31:23):
No, I don't even know her. I mean I've met
her a little bit, but I don't even I've never
talked to her. I mean we've never even talked. But wait,
no Ian.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Defensive? Like you seem a little defensive.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Why no, Yes, I'm married. I'm very I'm very married.
I would not know.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
All right, So now let's do it. Now, let's do it.
What we should have? Like what we should I mean,
I'll be teddy as I should have. Okay, listen, I
heard you said some shit about us and that you
had an affair with Brandy. It's going to come to
the surf this. Don't hate the player, hate the game.
This is what we're doing. So it's gonna come to
the surface. So let's just rip the band aid off here.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Okay, Okay, Well, if that's fine, you can say whatever
you want. That's fine.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Wait, so, like, what do you like? You don't even care?
Speaker 2 (32:19):
No, why would I care? It doesn't matter. Say whatever
you want. Yes, I did good. If you want to
believe that that's.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Fine, okay, Right, it would be exactly that, that's okay, okay,
and then they'd talk behind in another scene but like
you're not gonna get as much juice out of that lemon.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
So she in business and in life, do not take
the bait and do not go keep her go down deeper.
She's not. She's not good at thinking, producing, and doing
it all at the same time, because if she were,
she'd know, shut the fuck up. Cool, her minds prevail.
And but I'm gonna tell you something. Bravo, Bravo, fucking bravo.
It's a new world now. Back in my day on
(32:59):
Scary Island a scene with Kelly bensimone when she had
what people described as a breakdown. And I'm not gonna
speak out of school because I just don't want to
say that, but it seemed like something otherwise was going on,
and it seemed like she might like go visit somewhere
after this scene because it was insane, and they really
didn't show it. They showed about thirty five percent of
what went on. It was insane. But what she did
(33:20):
was she was like Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt,
Matt Matt Matt, which was called a producer and because
of her well being and because she was saying Matt,
they stopped the scene. Twenty twenty three Bravo with where
twenty twenty three Bravo ratings are they don't stop scenes. Yeah,
so Bravo, Bravo, fucking bro And they break the fourth
wall and they don't care if a producer speaks, because
(33:41):
you heard a producer speak to Teddy in an interview.
The show must go on.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Yeah, yeah, and it's I mean, I guess like the
more uh sort of breaking down that fourth wall has
become like they're so secret of that success, you know,
because people do want to see the damage that goes
on underneath, and you know, even if it's sort of manufactured.
So I think that's it. It's an interesting point.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
And that scene is part of the reason why Denise
Richards left the show. Like, think about that, and you know,
it's any skeletons that you have will come out on
the show. It's a zero sum game. Someone's always winning
and someone's always losing. And you literally could look at
it like predators and prey. You watch or like trolls
(34:32):
on Twitter and you watch like there's a lot of
blood in one area and then all the hosts come
to suck the blood off that one thing. So in
that moment, Denise is the host.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Yeah. Yeah, and it is like she's putting her own
blood in the water with the Brava. You know, she's
actually signaling to the predators. But then you know it's
also like, I also genuinely don't believe that she had
sex with Brandy. I really can't.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
That's funny that you say that, and you have an
instinct here, that's an interesting Okay, do you think you
have institutional knowledge or you're just you're just anyone in
the world having that.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Ims don't fuck like that, you know, like them's are
very bems just don't fuck like that. It's just a
different I don't know, like coming from a gay perspective,
I don't I don't smell a gay a gay intimacy.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Man, woman here, you are one of the smartest guests,
Like you are very literal, like myself. You've seem very
literal and very analytical about anything I.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Try I try to be. I mean, it's all very
interesting to me, especially if it's a world that I
don't know anything about. Like I just try to apply
my knowledge to what I'm seeing.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
You're perfect, Like I gotta tell you, you're one of
the people that the producers is gonna get off, like,
oh my god, she was amazing and like I'll be like,
we should have her again. Because there are certain people
that come on. There are certain people that come on
and act like I pluck them out of a supermarket
and threw them on here. They've never seen a show,
and they're like these people, I don't know why these
people talk like this, fight life, this, act like this.
It's like boring. And there are some people, but you
(35:58):
are the like Quince, You're the most crystallized version of
this person that come on and they've looked they've landed
on another planet and are really like observing this planet
and have a really entertaining opinion. And that's where you fall.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Oh thank you.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Well.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
The show really, what I've seen reminds me of professional wrestling.
You know, you have the story and they're like kind
of they wear all these costumes and they're there to
fight and not necessary so all sort of like story
entertain and entertain and create it in order to entertain
the audience. It's not necessarily really happening, but there are
really real phillies of animalsy behind it. There are rivalries
(36:35):
between these pro wrestlers that exist, and then these stories
that they're playing their costumes exacerbate that.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
So it's sensationalized entertainment. And I think one time I
would love to have you on to talk about New
York because it's a very different animal and having seen this,
you would see like a big difference. You're you're just
like a sociology expert on this, I could already tell fascinating.
So well, tell me what you're working on now?
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Right now with my show Live and Livid, I'm I'm
doing stand up comedy all over so you can find
out about everything that I'm going to be doing at
Margaret Chow dot com. And I'm actually about to start
another film. But I just finished working on Life and
Beth with Amy Schumer.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Oh yeah, I saw it. I saw I love it.
I love Amy Schumer too.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
She's great and it's a it's a really great new season.
So that's going to be coming up on Hulu and
so that that's, uh, what's happening. I'm also going to
be on Call Me Kat, which is a great show
with my Ambiolic. I love her and so that's really fun.
So just working and you're always working enjoying. Yeah, like
lots of different things. But I really love doing stand
(37:44):
up comedy and doing acting. So that's my my joys.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Nice. I think you're amazing, and I love this show
and my other show because I get to really like
get a sense for someone and.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Oh, thank you so much. I'm really happy to meet you.
And this is really.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Cool, really fun, awesome. We learned a lot about life.
That's why I like it. It's not trashing these women
or the show. It's more about like a sociology, like
looking at wildlife and commenting on it.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
It is. It's so fascinating and it's really I mean,
it's our version of sort of like war stories, is
that they are going to war every time. They kind
of connect with each other, all of these women. So
it's exciting to.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
See amazing, awesome, awesome, one of my favorite guests on
the show. So surprising, not because it's you, but because
you hadn't watched and it's just like amazing, so wonderful, wonderful, wonderful,
Thank you, and have a terrific day.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Thank you awesome.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Margaret Show was amazing because sometimes people come on here
and they act like, you know, I put a hot
poker on their ass to come on and talk about
a show that they've never seen, and like, well these
people and who would be like? And then sometimes people
come on and they're uber fans, like and Elizabeth Moss,
and it's funny to see this like Emmy Award, you know,
winning actress talk about something so ridiculous. And then once
(38:52):
in a while you get a gem, a hidden gem,
a person who has never seen it but like puts
their back into it, analyzes, you know, it's like it's
like they're doing like a thesis on house wivalry. And
that is Margaret Show. The way she described so many things,
from fashion to personality to I mean dynamics, sexuality, brilliant.
(39:15):
Margaret Show's one of my new favorite people. You will
probably hear her on here again because she's amazing and
I loved it
Host
Bethenny Frankel
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Intentionally Disturbing
Join me on this podcast as I navigate the murky waters of human behavior, current events, and personal anecdotes through in-depth interviews with incredible people—all served with a generous helping of sarcasm and satire. After years as a forensic and clinical psychologist, I offer a unique interview style and a low tolerance for bullshit, quickly steering conversations toward depth and darkness. I honor the seriousness while also appreciating wit. I’m your guide through the twisted labyrinth of the human psyche, armed with dark humor and biting wit.