“Get Your Hand out of my Face” with Kristin Chenoweth and Kandi Burruss

RHOP - S5, E9 “The Tipping Point”

Bethenny said it best. This episode is “next level from anything she's ever seen.” Kristin Chenoweth shares details about a cheating agreement that she and her husband made and Kandi Burruss explains why she only speaks for herself.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
H Potomac season five, episode nine holds one of the
craziest fights in all Housewives history between Candice and Monique.
Drinks are flying, hair is being pulled, people are bleeding.
Actress singer, Broadway star, Potomac super fan and author of

(00:21):
her new book I'm no Philosopher, but I Got thoughts,
Christian Channowith is diving in deep to dissect this episode.
This is the Real Housewives of Potomac Season five, episode nine,
the tipping point. So this is unique because, um, I

(00:47):
haven't seen all series, like I I when I left.
You know, I'll watch occasionally, but I'm not this avid
fan across. It's hard. It would be hard to keep
up with all of them. I bet your loyal to brands.
You're loyal to certain uh franchise cities, and I hear
that this is one of them. Oh yeah, that you're loyal,

(01:08):
But are you loyal to all or this is? Like
this is your ride or die? Um my rider die
is uh Beverly Hills. Well not right now, that's the name.
My writer die is Utah. Oh wow, okay, I mean
what attracts you to a particular city. I think the
combination of the energy of the women. So um, okay,

(01:30):
so this show you will be more of an expert
than I will. But I found this episode. You know
you haven't been on rewives and we haven't. We share
a publicist, and I'm sure she told you this show
is not about the housewives. The show is about the
conversations with these episodes as vehicles. So this particular episode
that we chose of Potomac, there are so many conversations

(01:52):
to be had. And as I watched the episode, because
I've never seen it and I know that you have,
I texted Candy Burst from Atlanta and said, will you
come on in the middle of my podcast for ten
minutes because there's a topic that I don't think two
white women can have an accurate perspective and insight on.
So this morning I was watching the episode because you know,

(02:13):
I do homework for this, and I said, interesting, I
think I want to call. I texted Candy and said
I and she just came in blind. She said, I
don't watch the show. I saw the clips, but sure,
so we'll get into that and I'll get more specific
to the audience understands. But for the first time ever,
I'm going to have an actual housewife on the show,

(02:33):
because I just really did not feel like I cannot
know what it would feel like to be a black
woman in this particular experience that happens on this episode.
And now I think it's a great episode to discuss.
I'm glad you did that, Bethany, because I too have
a couple of thoughts and opinions and questions about the episode.
And one of the reasons I'm glad it's Candy because

(02:55):
one of the reasons I watched in Land is her.
Oh interesting. Okay, well I don't know if you've met her,
but you'll meet her today. Okay. So that's an extra treat.
And it just literally was an impromptu text this morning
while watching this this this episode. Okay, so this is
the Real Housewives of Potomac. So many of you have
seen it, many of you have not. I had not.

(03:16):
This is a conversation through which the show is a vehicle.
So we're gonna end up talking about issues that don't
have to have to do with these particular women or
the Housewives or Bravo. So this show is in Potomac
and these women are at a vineyard, I guess, and
they're all talking and they're standing up, and my first
impression was, what a beautiful group of women, you know,

(03:39):
like I just it was a beautiful group of women.
And you know, I've watched Orange County and Orange County.
To me, if I had to describe it, it's very
it can be very authentic, and it can get really messy,
like it's a messy show. And Atlanta is half messy
to me, like it can be really polished and then
then then really messy. And Jersey is fairly messy to

(04:00):
New York is a hybrid Beverly Hills. They don't really
act that messy, even they might be because they have
to act like they're very rich and above that. And
even though there are Lisa, Rinna and and Kim moments.
So I'm watching the show and I'm thinking, everybody's so
mature and having such you know, intelligent conversations and taking
the right side of things, and they all get along

(04:21):
so well. I'm thinking is I'm thinking, Wow, they all
really seem to like each other. And one woman, Um Ashley,
is married to what I think is an Australian man.
It seems like a wealthy Australian man based on the
Green Up discussion. I can't tell if they're married or not,
but yes, you're right. Well, okay, so it seems And
by the way this is I may get hate for this,

(04:43):
but you know, the women seem like hot and together
and the men seemed to me a little schlubby. So
this guy, I I am hearing an argument between not
an argument, I'm hearing a discussion, a very calm, rational
discussion between Ashley and these other women about the fact
that are partner life partner was caught in a room

(05:05):
on camera and his underwear with a woman, and she
knows about it, and she's sort of going to forgive him,
and she wants to have a post up drawn up
and if he does this again then it will really
be the end. But she has had trists with women
coming into the relationship before, and they all have this

(05:29):
very adult conversation where everybody understands each other, and it
seems like a really interesting issue to deal with. Yes,
I agree, especially you know, first of all, we must learn,
if not now, then when you cannot judge a book
by its cover, so you wouldn't think looking at her,
oh they're in a three way. But also just because

(05:52):
a woman says that's okay with me. I agree to that.
That's okay with me, And then she changes her mind
after her children are born and says, you know what,
it's not working. From many I actually love the way
she handles herself with this situation. She woke up one
day and said, I've had these two kids. I don't
think I want to do that anymore with my with

(06:13):
my partner, I want it to be just him and
him and me. And I think the reason she's wanting
to forgive him and the ladies are having trouble with that,
some of them is because she knew what she agreed to,
and now she's asking him to change, and so we're
going to see if he can. She's willing to say,
I want to give it a chance, you know, I
want to see And sometimes women, it's so interesting. We're

(06:35):
supposed to be each other's ally, right, instead of what
are you saying you can't do that? How about she
wants to make it work? And so interesting much who
are we to do? Okay? So a couple five different
things came up in my mind. The first thought that
I had was to prove your point that you made.

(06:56):
You're a woman of faith, which doesn't mean that you,
you know, walked out of the show because you saw
that a woman had been with another woman and a man.
You may not live your life that way or choose
to live your life that way. And maybe you do,
and maybe you have your own you know, your your
relationship with God and how you run your own life
and your own faith. But you are not one of

(07:18):
these Twitter But you know Box saying you're wrong and
being judgmental about this woman who has been okay with
another woman coming into their relationship, and also who isn't
nailing her husband to the cross for being in a
room with a woman, being in a room in his
underwear with another woman when we haven't walked in her

(07:40):
shoes and we don't know all the ingredients to that dish.
That's right, what it like? I said, Many couples have agreements, Okay,
my my man and I have an agreement that hey,
if one of those cheats, it's over. Okay, that's our deal.
But I don't know Ashley and her partner's day to day.
They clearly made agreement. She had no trouble sharing. It

(08:00):
should no trouble sharing what that agreement was, and now
it's changed okay, him to change. Okay. Also, also there's
another character in this story, which is the show. So
now you're bringing this onto a show, and sometimes you're
reacting how you truthfully react if you're a really great

(08:21):
house if it's challenging to do. But sometimes you're also
reacting in a way because you're also talking to us
the audience. You're talking to your partner, you're talking to
some girls that are judging about it, and you're talking
to the audience. But understand that women on this particular show,
and we'll get into the housewives overall, and is this
okay in the grand scheme and pop culture what these

(08:46):
shows bring out in women. But when you're on these shows,
it's a zero sum games. Somebody's always winning and somebody's
always losing. So having this sort of a gem for
all the other women, it's like a feeding frenzy. It's
like they're coming like parasites onto the main host to
like rip it it, tear at it. And Ashley handled

(09:07):
it perfectly because whether it's exactly what's going on in
her relationship or what she did as a character on
a show, she walked in and she cut it off
at the pass, just like Danielle when the table got fliped,
she walked in, was like, Hi, here's the book about
me being arrested. She walked in and as she walked in,
was like, Hi, it's on the table. Here it is.
Let's get into it. And it cleared, which is shocking it.

(09:27):
I thought so too, because I've seen it when it
don't clear, like you just mentioned Denise Richards and did
Brandy Glanville did not clear. It did not clear, and
Carol Radswell book did not clear. You're so right, Oh,
I forgot about that. It's cleared fast not And because
she nippick at the budge to care it right then,
and and notice how she kept her calm. Yes, she

(09:50):
didn't take the bait. He did not, and boy did
is that? Hey, that's a lesson for all of us
when when you are being challenged with something that is
your authentic true And I believe it is her authentic truth.
Just because I watched the show from the beginning and
I kind of saw how the relationship. I got a
good gut instinct about her. I don't know anything. I
liked it a lot. I did with you. I'm with you,

(10:11):
but you're right, it's a lesson of how to handle
yourself in business and a meeting and a conflict is
when you learn your greatest lessons. Like it's it's when
you're it's when the heat is on. It's like you
gotta not gripped that steering wheel too tight and you
can't let go. You gotta just maneuver the vehicle, which
is what she was doing. And I thought it was fascinating.
But the other conversation that we can have is that

(10:33):
I agree with what you said. In the beginning, relationships
evolved and change. I'm in a long distance relationship. In
the beginning, we strangled the calendar. We wanted every single
box to be filled with us being together every single
time we could. It was perfect math. Every minute I
can get there, you could get here. Well, business got
in the way, My daughter got in the way. Wanting
to lay and stare at the ceiling and and not

(10:54):
go anywhere got in the way, and we ended up
evolving as to what we had as a formula that
had to work. We could only work if we like
glued it all together. And we evolved and we became
more mature and realized we like time alone and we
like our own lives and our lives together and our
lives and our own kids, like it became a new recipe.
And what can I just say? I mean, I have

(11:16):
followed your journey and I don't know. I only know
what the public sees. So you know, God bless you
a he Gods be the most important thing that you've
done with your life. And you know, I don't want
to get into it too much because I have too
much respect for you to talk about your child, but

(11:37):
to watch her grow just like a public I just
watched her and be such it so just darling, and
you're obviously a good mom. But it brings up the
question of how much are these women in potomach and
all of them willing to show the real That's the
question you brought up, which I like, is how much
are they willing to be? Like when I hear in

(11:59):
a re union. I don't know if I'm getting off
topic here, but no, no, this is this is a
show about the whole experience, Like it's not about Yeah,
it's not about these particular women only when I hear
in a in a reunion, Well, you know, in the
scene you were it wasn't what was supposed to be
about I get so mad because as an actor, and
pardon me, I hope this isn't as an actor, I'm thinking, No, y'all,

(12:23):
scenes is when the dialogue is written. You memorize that
you have your intention, you know why you're moving there,
you have relationships, you dig deep about character. That's not
what y'all are doing. So but it's funny that you
say that because it started off and I'm not kidding
you because I've been through. I was there, and I
talked about this all the time when we were doing
our own makeup, sitting at our own ugly clothes, and

(12:44):
watched it evolve into coming back after leaving three seasons,
and people had glam squads up in the Berkshires, when who,
no one's in the Berkshires. We're not seeing anyone. So
then I started watching Denise Richards come in in shorts,
which is normal on a vacation and you've gone with
the end ball gowns. But but she I keep up
because she has to go that way because otherwise she's
gonna look like a frump because they're all wearing so

(13:05):
so the worm turned because there were five housewives when
I started, ten housewives when I started another have been
a hundred and forty five, So we didn't have I
never heard the term storyline. I even used my self
term character. We never had character, and we didn't say
a scene because it's it was. It just wasn't that.

(13:26):
It was really more real. And that's why you know,
me and Kelly with I'm up here, yere down here
was a subtle moment because it wasn't this giant produced
thing and that self produced. It's just it's a combination
of the producers have to have to elevate the game,
and the women have come in with a preconceived notion

(13:46):
because they've seen all the other episodes of all the
other shows before they go on were they're going to.
When I hear the word agenda, she had an agenda,
I'm like, I'm stay to see that. And then when
I hear the word storyline, as you brought up, the
irritates me because I'm like, wait, am I getting played? Yeah?
But but Bethany yet yet? I still watch. And because

(14:07):
it's a combination hybrid, because I'm an actress actor, I
do know when I'm being played too, So I just
go along with it until I get until I get
to the real stuff. And one of the reasons why
I like Salt Lake City is because I'm not seeing
or hearing those kinds of words. Well, that's why when
I say that Orange County is messy and Jersey is messy,

(14:29):
it's because it's not self produced. Beverly Hills is self produced.
I've seen it. I've been there. They're controlling themselves. They're
really concerned about how to play the game and manipulating
the system because they can, because they have massive houses
and great bags and can get away with a lot
of logos and things like that to to to drive it.
And but it will always catch up with you. What
I mean is something will always happened on you. Well,

(14:50):
it turns on you. But also the story will always
come through and something will end up happening, and so
the game starts to move too fast. You can't really
control this car that long. You can try for certain
moments that you're sensing on camera, but you can't. You
can't control this whole process. It just doesn't work. It will.
It will drive you, so don't worry. It all comes out.
But but the messier shows are the ones where the

(15:13):
people like Teresa or Nani or Vicky. The people that
I put on my Mount Rushmore, the people that I
put on my Mount Rushmore are not because they're perfect
and not because everybody might like them the most. It's
because they really were just real and not so for
being true authentic. Right, even Porsche who's a phenomenal housewife,
it's very like elaborate and very glamorous and it's not

(15:35):
the same. So that's just my definition of a Rushmore. Um,
I agree. I agree. So now you go into that
word mom shame and it wasn't even correctly used, but
I did understand the meaning. Um uh. It was Monique,
who Who's Monique said to Candice, you wouldn't understand because

(15:57):
you don't have kids, those throwaway comments that you're dissing
someone else it doesn't have kids, which is like age shaming.
It was. It was like reverse mom shaming. I would
call it. I thought it was below the bell. I
did say. I didn't. I don't have children, but I
have kids that I mentor and that means something to
me and that I have an opinion on because I

(16:17):
helped raise them. Okay, and I can have an opinion.
You don't have to have a child to get you
were a child. Like you know what I'm saying. You
can have an opinion on something that that that you
don't directly experience. But it was also even if you
didn't have an even if even if a person who's
not a mom doesn't exactly you understand, that's a dig.

(16:37):
It's a dig. It was like a z and someone
can't control it either. It's like calling someone ugly because
there's nothing you could do, like they are saying your
teeth and it's just so mean because it's like there's
nothing to say to it. Now we gotta now we

(17:00):
get again into it. So everybody's calm and rational about
you know, about having three ways and men and their
underwear with with women in in in the room and
what was it a hooker? Is that we're yeah, I
mean they're not they're not saying that, but they allude
to that that it's a hooker. And we this girl,
this this person, what sold the pictures? Granted him out.

(17:23):
That's what happened she did, Okay, that's what That's what
Ashley is saying that she she she knew what she
was doing with her husband. The lady knew what she
was doing. Okay, Well, great. Of course nothing to do
with him, and of course he's guilt free. But I mean,
let's not forget that. No, Okay, So I'm I'm so
impressed by the rationale here and everybody's so mature, and

(17:44):
then the ship goes sideways. So I I mean, we're
going to talk about this normally, but it's not even
supposed to be talked about normally because it's totally so
unacceptable for women to be acting this way. And we're
gonna get Candy on in a minute to talk about this,
but let's just get started. So Monique the way, the

(18:06):
way that I saw it is that Monique is in
Candice's face, but they're both taunting each other. I don't
I see it like they're poking each other for sure
right there too, Like you know they're they're poking each other,
and she says, what do you want to drag me?
Like they know they're on TV, they know they're in

(18:26):
a scene, they know it's getting crazy, and they really
are like intoxicated by the wine, by the scene, by
the moment, and it's just it's just it's just escalating. Right,
So Monique was holding onto Candice's hair. They didn't seem
to be able to let go and what like why
because it was that's like the competition was right there,

(18:47):
like they were holding on. Get the feeling. And I
could be wrong, but I get the feeling. Monique, that's
one not to cross. Here's what I thought. Here's what
I thought. And I could be saying this all wrong.
Candice is is this cute little pageant girl and very
very smart by the way, and she's probably doing the scene.
This is what I gathered him. She was the scene

(19:11):
and I think Monique went, hey, the scene is done
like I've never seen. I've never seen that on all
of the Housewives. I've seen Ninie, I've seen say, I've
seen Kim Zolziac with with that. We've situation in the
street with I think it was I don't know who
was pulling each other's hair, but like this was I've
seen him n I think right, I've seen that situation

(19:34):
in the closet with Nini and the camera guys, and
I've seen Ramona with the wine glass and Kim Richards
and Lisa Renna with the wine glass and it was
next level. Yeah, because of the because of them, the repeat,
she wanted to go back Here's what I thought when
I saw it, Um, she's going to go back. I

(19:56):
don't think Monique felt like she was being heard. And
then I think Candice in the background, you'd hear her
still name calling when they're pulled apart. I mean, they're
both doing it, but Monique is standing in the hallway,
you know, she's standing in the hallway waiting and listening
with the producer, and Candice is still call her name.
And that's what Monique was gonna leave, and she still

(20:18):
hears Candice. Candice is still calling her name, and that's why.
And I don't know if she was going to go
to hit her or anything. I think she just wanted
to still have that Hey listen, I can still hear you.
And I also think she probably wanted to be on camera, like,
do y'all hear this? Do y'all hear this? Does that
make say? It does? Now? I heard that they sued

(20:40):
each other, which is a joke because they both it's ridiculous.
And also I don't even think that's allowed in your contract.
I think, like you can't sue someone else, but it
doesn't matter. Anybody can do anything, body for anything. And
I also I heard that they sued each other, but
I heard that um Monique ended up. And this is
the thing. Sometimes people apologize not because it's what they

(21:01):
thought was wrong in the moment, it's because of how
the audience reacted, which is a positive about the show
because someone gets to really reflect on how most people
would see your behavior. So I guess the audience if
they're like you, and I reacted that and it's not
fair because both of them were so wrong, but Monique
took it to another level something. Yeah, this is when
your mother tells you your whole life or your father,

(21:24):
whoever says, how you react is going to be character telling.
And in the beginning of Potomac, one of my favorites
was Monique. One of my favorites was going to I
liked everything about her. When that and Canvas kind of,
you know, graded on me a little bit. It's horrible,

(21:46):
but especially how how I've seen her grow and evolved.
In that moment, for some reason, my opinion changed, and
I felt badly because I thought Monique was the one
I liked so much, and now I have this feeling
about her that I don't I can't shake. I got

(22:08):
over it because I saw her like reflect And I
don't know if it was part of the shar or not,
but I really feel like I saw her family come
together and surround her. I loved that. I loved her
husband coming to say. You know she could she snapped,
and you know her husband protected her, and her husband
said we will not do this name calling thing. And
I love it when he said at the union, I

(22:28):
play check not checkers. Well, thank you. I say that
all the time. Well, it's funny that you said. So.
People make mistakes all the time. And I was just
talking to a business owner who made a big mistake,
and um, I said to them, and I still don't
think they handled the mistake properly. And I said, listen,
I'm not immune to mistakes as a business owner. Anybody
can make a mistake. How do you handle it? And

(22:50):
I say this to my daughter all the time. You
can be right and make yourself wrong so quickly you
can be totally right and become wrong. So this jumped
the shark. And I have never seen I've never seen
women act like this. And how your parents told you
to behave and you can't be an adult behaving in
a way that you learned as a child. We're just

(23:10):
not allowed. I acted the way that I saw at
the race track. People think I'm abrasive now what I've
lived through as a child, abuse and alcoholism and gambling
in the race track is not fit, and I'd be
I'd be right in there with the two of them,
because I have gotten into fistifights of people in my life.
I have. You know, I I know, and I hear
you and I think where I struggle and this is

(23:31):
where Candy can help help us talk about it is
because I had a picture. The way Monique presented herself
was class act. I do good for others, and I
still think she does by the way I think she hear.
Her heart's in the right place, I think. But when
that happened, I started questioning my right. That was just

(23:54):
pretend and the truth is the real. But back to
being a parent or not being a parent. When you
saw her in the scene really close after, when you
saw her washing her cute, adorable daughter's hair in the
sink with the husband who's the football player, you thought
she's a mother. The first thought I had was you
are a role model, and that you're even talking to

(24:16):
your husband about this in front of your daughter, and
they are sponges. So your daughter knows what you're talking about.
And there's a conversation in your house about you beating
the ship out of another woman and you have a daughter,
and like, how's that cycle not going to continue beyond?
It was the worst one. It's the worst example to
step for a child and her husband. You could tell
he totally disagree with her. Even with her telling the

(24:38):
story from her perspective, her husband disagreed, and I think
you should have been even firmer, like absolutely not, no,
thank you. That is unacceptable. You laid your hands on
somebody else and that's unacceptable. So it's handy it, you know,
Like that scene, to me, it was like he was
letting her know on her show that it's not acceptable
the way she behaved. Is Candy here, she's here, Okay, Hi, Candy, Hi,

(25:12):
I love you. What's up? How y'all doing. I told
Kristen that I was watching this episode that I know
you haven't seen, but you've seen the clips, and I
thought to myself, I have an opinion on what happened.
I'm not blind. But the next scene that we're about
to discuss in the next topic on the show, I
don't have a clear opinion on. So what I was

(25:33):
saying is that, you know, some of the messier shows
like Orange County can get really messy, and Jersey to me,
can get really messy. And Atlanta is half messy, half
half messy and half like the Beverly Hills polish where
people are you know, fronting and stunted. No, but sometimes
I think, like I think like Nini was messy, but Porscha,

(25:55):
you know, it's all the beautiful gone with the wind,
you know, dresses in the can. You like, there's just
a different vibe. Meaning I find that Orange County they'll
just say absolutely anything at all times, and I feel
like Atlanta is always my favorite, but it can be
messy and it can be polished. So I hadn't seen
the show, and they're different. You know, Beverly Hills is
usually trying to be polished, but there have been glasses

(26:17):
thrown and and and there have been messy moments, but
I have not yet seen on The Housewives a scene
this messy. So there's a moment where a woman, Ashley's husband,
is caught in a room with what seems to be
a prostitute, and everybody's so rational and mature talking about it,
and I'm like, wow, these women are so polished and
like just rational. And the next minute, the next minute,

(26:42):
this woman Monique and Candice are literally ripping each other
worse than the Charay Kim Nini, like, worse than the
closet at Nini's house, ripping hold, ripping each other's hair out,
holding onto each other like two men in a fight
in an alley, like not like in say but and
so I just want to ject this though, Candy, I

(27:03):
think that what I saw is I thought, really Monique
not letting go. I mean, I think at one point
I said, definitely, okay, Yeah, it was a hair pull basically,
and she was popping her on the head while she
was pulling her hair. But it was like, really one
person was fighting, the other person was really trying to

(27:25):
get loose. Oh she was. She wasn't holding on too,
she was trying to get okay. And then Monique wanted
to go back in for seconds, that's she wanted to go.
That wasn't enough, and she had a bloody lip and
she wanted to go back in. Candy, and I said,
then she's in the kitchen and her husband is effectively

(27:46):
letting her know it's that is unacceptable. And she's got
a daughter that she's washing her daughter's hair having this conversation,
and it's so clear to me this is such a
bad example. So that's like where we are right now,
and we all disagree. Okay, So yeah, I mean but
as far as like and and I I agree with

(28:06):
you about what happened, as far as like, you know,
it was a bad example or whatever. But what I
don't agree on it. I feel I feel like there
have been other examples on other shows kind of like
you know, on Jersey with the Fight, they've had all
out brawls where everybody's jumping in or table flips and
you know, they really looked like they were trying to
get at each other. But to me, like this one, yeah,

(28:28):
she got drugs. Same thing on our show went the
year that Porsche grabbed um Kenyan snatched her and drug
her across the floor basically by her. Okay, I forgot okay, right,
I forgot about that. I forgot about that. And also
I guess what it was was that first of all,
I sort of give women more credit than men for

(28:49):
the fight. So at the christening or it was I
think it was a christening or it was a It
was a bunch of men like in a brawl and
other people getting involved like you see in a movie
fight or Jerry Spring as I talked about it, Um
this the intensity and such a close proximity was what
was really like riveting to me. It was just so
like tight and you could see it definitely was hurting.

(29:09):
It just felt very It felt very intense to me
versus like just like sloppy. You know that her Yeah,
she had on a wig and then like it probably
was hurting because I'm sure getting your your wig ripped off.
So the reason on the show, Candy, it's not really
about the episode, it's about the topic. So the reason

(29:30):
I wanted to talk to you is because Wendy is
saying that she's fighting so black women can have a
seat at the table, and you fought so hard to
have a seat at the table and be respected. And
this was a conversation with the Will Smith slap. I'd
never even thought of that aspect, but people were saying,
you know, this is not good for black people when

(29:52):
a man goes up and slap somebody, you know, on
a stage, And obviously that wasn't my first thought at all.
I didn't think of that. So that was a conversation.
And then here this woman on the show is having
this conversation saying, we thought so hard to have a
seat at the table, and this is the opposite of
what we want. And I thought to myself, well, sloppiness
has happened. Arguments have happened on Orange County and and

(30:13):
there's been at least throwing a glass And you know
it's not it's not obviously relegated to black women. But
if black women have fought so hard twice as hard
to get to the same place, where do you stand
on this? Like when you see this as a black
woman and you see two black women on television, two smart,
you know, beautiful women on the show that five minutes before,

(30:35):
I'm like thinking how rational everyone is about this, Like,
you know, three people in a relationship in this hooker situation.
And then I go to this. I instantly thought I
want to call Candy and get her take, because you
don't really lose your cool that off, and you are smart,
You're like, okay, so you speak because I mean if

(30:56):
we also think about the year that, um, what was
that that we at the slumber party and I told
somebody I was gonna drag her or whatever. Um, There's
definitely been moments where I definitely wanted to put my
hands on somebody in the show. Really this season where
we were filming, I wanted to put my hands somebody
on the show. It hasn't come out yet, but I
felt that way. But overall, I kind of feel like,

(31:19):
as black people, the difference in us and you know
everybody else, is like, black people do care about how
we're perceived in public because we feel like how one
represents as publicly affects everybody else. I think it's a
lot different with no offense with you guys, And it's
kind of like, if you know, two white women have

(31:40):
a fight on you know, whatever show, you don't look
at it and be like, oh, they're making all white
people look bad. But with us, if we see two
black women having a show, we're like, they're making black
women look bad. And it's because at the end of
the day, it's like we we felt like for a
very long time, we didn't have as many great representations

(32:01):
or our stories being showed in a better light. You know,
we were always looked at, you know, our representations that
were on television for a long time was oh the ghetto,
Oh the pimp, oh the you know, the gang person
or the bad guy in the movie are We don't
get the you know, representation of being the affluent or

(32:23):
the you know, or the person that's the most educated
or whatever for for a very long time. And so now, um,
now that we are on television and now reality TV
tends to show most of the negative you know, um,
black people, we don't like that because overall, you know,
we know that we get judged more more harshly than

(32:46):
any other race typically. You know. I know before when
I was first thinking of coming on the show a
million years ago, Uh I remember, you know, I came
in on season two, but season one had already played,
and I was talking around a group of friends and
I was saying, yeah, you know, they approached me about
being on the Real Housewives, and they were like, oh,
you should do that show. That's a bad representation of

(33:07):
black women, you know, all the stuff. And I said
to them, I was like, well, if you think that
that was a bad representation of black women, and you
think I'm a good representation, why would you want me
to do it? Exactly so. But overall, um, because you
want to change you want to see on TV because

(33:29):
you you've been seeing these characters as the gangster and
the bad person and an intelligent person, and you want
to be the change that you want to see on TV.
So that's a great reason to be on TV for you. Yes,
And I don't always you know, I mean, like I said,
I don't always hit the bar. But overall, it's like
you do want people to understand, like, okay, because if

(33:51):
all you're seeing is oh, the angry black woman or
this lady likes to fight or whatever. If that is
the perception that the world is seeing on a regular
basis of black women, then when it comes time to
hire that person for a certain position, you're blue. I
don't know if I want to hire because you know
they are angry. Yeah, you don't want that, you know. So,

(34:14):
and so I think that's why it's very important to
black people to be represented well in the public eye
because we know we always get you know, thrown in
a bunch and judged by whatever. You know, the overall
perception is a black people instead of just you know,
judging each person by that person when you meet them,

(34:34):
and when you so you said, so is do you
have some sort of subconscious switch that you don't switch
on when you said you wanted to put your hands
on somebody? Are you? I mean, is that is this
even possible for you to think this quickly in that moment?
Or why didn't you go off? Um? I think sometimes,
you know, sometimes we click out, right, so where a

(34:55):
person pushes out put buttons to the to the extent
of you know, we lose it. Everybody has a moment
where you lose it, right, But um, I think for me,
it's like once the moment is over and you know,
of course you know everybody's trying to break it up.
But then I always tell myself, in like one instance

(35:16):
this year, the one that I said hasn't come out yet,
I was like, I'm leaving. I'm not gonna stay here.
In the scene after the argument happened and I said
what I said, I was like, it's time for me
to go because I know I'm already at that level
of anger that if I stay it couldn't get to
that level. So let me leave because I don't want

(35:36):
that to be the representation that I leave you on
this show, right, So it's it's cooler minds prevail. Like
you would give the advice to say, take one second,
take a beat, and try to be able to play
the chess game, like you definitely have to take a beat.
I mean, I know for myself, it's like I can
go from being totally calm and I'll talk to you

(35:58):
for so long. But if it's you know, if it's
like oh that you know how some people like to
put their finger in your face, or you know, or
that thing that Monique was doing flipping her hair, oh,
I would have lost it on the first flip, like
do not It's taunting. It's taunting right right, And so
I mean I think some of it is understandable to

(36:20):
anybody of any race. It just depends on your background.
Some people their buttons aren't as easy to be pushed.
But you know, at the same time, if I act
out compared to you acting out, it's like I'm looking
at as the angry black woman. You just had a

(36:40):
bad day. That's why that's why I called you, because
I wanted to know if when you saw that clip,
if the first thought you had wasn't oh my god,
that's funked up. That fight between those two people or
if the first fight was like, that's not how we act,
Like you know what you're saying to your daughter. Look
if your daughter does something, and I'll look at my
daughter like, no, yesterday I said you gotta thank this person.

(37:01):
She said, oh, they know, I said, no, call them,
because you want to be known for the person who
thanks them. Like whatever it was, that's what I So
you're I'm the first thought I'm having with her is like, no,
that's not how it goes. So were you thinking when
that happened on TV? Like as you're thinking about how
she's representing black women not just two women fighting. Well, me, personally,
I don't fall into that because I mean, I definitely

(37:24):
have gotten to a point where I'm just like I
don't really care what people think. You know, you have
to be you at all times. But I do know
how overall, like my family, my mama, everybody is like, oh,
they're making us look bad. Oh you know what I mean?
So I know that thought process. You know, um gotta
it's it's historic realistically, because you know, for so long

(37:45):
it's like, you know, black people have wanted to become
more educated. That's why they say, now you know, black
women are like, you know, some of the percentage wise
one of the highest percentage of people graduating from college.
Because now it's like, we have to be educated, we
have to be this, you know, so that people can
stop looking at us like, oh, right on this level. Right.

(38:08):
But I noticed a long time ago, and I don't
know if you guys would agree, but I personally feel
like housewives, especially all the different um, all of the
different housewives, you know, we have kind of played into
the stereotypes of what people think about each region. Meaning um,

(38:30):
even though we don't necessarily try so. Meaning and I'm
not trying to say this in any type of racist
way or whatever. I'm just saying what people historically categorize
each type of person. Right, So, say, for instance, you know,
Jersey mostly Italian women. You know, they have had the

(38:50):
crazy blow ups with their family or the you know,
you know, and people have said historically, oh, Italians are
hot headed, la la la la. You know. So, even
though I'm sure they didn't try to play into the stereotype,
things like they have happened on their show, or you
think Housewives of O See, you think, oh, blonde hair,
this is that. Oh they don't you know, kind of

(39:10):
agree with yeah, you know, getting wasted, getting into girl
fights like blood. You know, yeah, that it's totally true.
It's totally true what you're saying. And yeah, and it's
between the producers and the cast that like New York
is trying to pretend they're elevated and intelligent in some way,
which they're not. More I've worked with them, and they're
not more intelligent than people in other casts Beverly Hills, Bethany,

(39:34):
I mean, yeah, not trying to pretend everybody is so
rich even though they're not. You're richer than many people
on Beverly Hills. That's that's a that's totally true, that
everyone's playing into the stereotypes. Yeah, and so I don't
think that we try to, but sometimes there is a
little bit of a stereotype within a certain group that
is naturally there. I mean, at the end of the day,

(39:56):
I am a black woman. I feel like I'm very intelligent.
I am a bi since woman, But do not come
up in my face. Then you're gonna be doing all
of this because yes, I will check you, you know
what I mean. And if that black woman, then that
would be me. I understand there's a lot, but there's
a line. Well, then I guess you're saying there's a line,
and that scene that we're talking about today seems to

(40:17):
me in any situation, any color of anyone's skin that
cross that line. Yeah, I mean I feel like, um,
I don't really like I said, you know, I didn't
really know what what sparked the argument between those two women,
but I know, but Potomac specifically, they carry themselves at
a higher standard for black women. But they definitely you know,

(40:43):
when they compare them to I guess the Housewives of Atlanta.
You know, um people Beverly Hills and OC. They're trying
to create that they're Beverly Hills and black. Potomac is
near d C. It's more of a political town. Yes,
the black women there are more, you know, Oh, we
have to look this way, but it's a political town

(41:05):
that they are surrounded about. You get what I'm saying.
I know, I told you your Atlanta is a town
from music. Yeah, we're towns were creative and yeah, and
that's more like stodgy and near GC. That makes perfect
sense too. It's good. So, um, I am shocked that
they did have a fight because they always trying to
say that there you know, well that's what I'm saying.

(41:25):
So I hadn't happened from Potomac y'all that I was like,
I expected this one thing and then I think that's
Bethany when we were talking earlier. That shocked me the most.
I was like, oh Potomac, Oh, okay, is that the
real person? Then a facade there that was broken? That's good?
Then that, Yeah, that's that's interesting. And somebody who watched it,

(41:48):
that's just somebody who watched most of the girls that
feel that way. I mean, like I said, it's like,
we can't allow and I think this is society. We
cannot allow what happens between the two women to represent
the whole group. And that's the problem. It's like everybody,
you see what happened between one, you know, set of people,

(42:10):
and then you judge the whole group. And that's the
whole problem that black people have with our representation on television.
You know, we want to see us, you know, in
a better light. Oh see more representative, you know, see
us represented better, Like oh, because they're in in whatever
race you're in, you're gonna have people that are rich
more educated. You're gonna have something that are broke, there's

(42:31):
not doing well. It don't matter what race you are.
But typically when it comes to black people, if you think,
you know, people think oh yeah, I need to get
with you know, the people that are really making moves
in this category or whatever tech or whatever it may be.
People won't be like, oh let me get with this
group over here. The black people like, they're not thinking

(42:52):
of us when it comes to those, you know, in
those rooms. Whereas we do have a lot of people
that are successful in the area. Um like Tani who
was on our show, her her husband, he's still making
major moves in tech. He's so you know, millions and
millions of dollars. And but when you think you're not
thinking of black people, you know what I'm saying. So

(43:12):
I just use them as an example to say, you know,
it doesn't matter you know what race you're and you're
gonna have somebody that's elevated in area every area of
every race. But typically people don't look at black people
as the ones who are top unless unless it has sports.
Unless it's sports, or unless it's music or entertainment or whatever,

(43:35):
then they think of us, right, but typically, you know,
they're not really looking our way. So that's why we
want to show them, you know, better representation of ourselves
when it comes to television because that's what people are watching.
And then it's crazy because like we gotta think not
just black people here, that's just here in the United States,
but overall as a society, as Americans. When people from

(43:57):
overseas look at us, they always think American are crazy
there there, they're that because they're just seeing what they
see on TV. Well, you're amazing. I really appreciate that perspective.
I am so happy that I called text and I
thank you very much. I'm glad that I called you
because we could not have had this conversation without you,
and I'm so grateful. I appreciate you. Candy, thank you.

(44:18):
Oh yeah, I had a great time talking to you guys.
By awesome. I'm bye. I talked to you soon. Thank you.
You know what, I was just thinking what Candy said
bethany Um, I was thinking about Oklahoma, where I'm from,

(44:39):
where I'm writing they were to do at Housewives of Oklahoma.
When she was talking about, you know, the way people look,
I thought, what would Oklahoma be like? Okay, we'll be
talking to each other in a kind way. And I
love my Oklahoma women. I mean, I'm from there, That's what.
And then we kind of turned around. We'd have a
big problem with somebody. We turned around and talked about

(45:01):
it with somebody else, bless her heart, and we think
about it forever and forever, and we built the story.
We'd read write a story, and then that story is
the story of the show. And I just thought we
would nice each other to death. It would never work,
it would never work. Well, I thought it was interesting
because I walked into the show and they had this intelligent, polished,

(45:21):
you know, really seemingly orchestrated conversation about elevated conversation about
the other matter. And she was right. I didn't know
that they were perceived as more highbrow, and it just
took it just took a turn. So, okay, so we
did that. That's amazing. I mean, that's amazing. And I'm

(45:43):
are we are right, We're glad. I called her okay, great,
So it was great. I needed that perspective. I don't
have it. So um so now you have um the
therapy between Karen and her husband, which I thought was
so interesting that I liked that scene because they were honest,
and you get into therapy with a spouse or a partner,

(46:06):
or even without therapy, you just sometimes have to talk
to each other and say hi, like how do you
think this is going? Like why are you even with me?
Or what do you want? Or where are we in this?
And she said she was in love with him and
he said he honestly said he didn't know, but he wasn't.
And it wasn't like one of these things where I
felt uncomfortable because it was on camera in the way
that I did with the uh with with with the

(46:28):
man who cheated on his wife, like their pre nup
conversation was was awkward. This was just like honest. She
put him on TV with a therapist and he answered
honestly like he he didn't. He wasn't on a script.
I thought it was really real. I loved it too,
and that's why I love I actually loved that Karen.
I mean, she's a potster, but I like her. But
but I felt like, here's what I thought as a watcher.

(46:49):
I felt like this was authentic, that she did not
see that one coming. And also I thought about it myself,
how would I feel after many years of marriage and
having kids and we're in the ty light years? You know,
how would I feel if my husband if I said
I love and by the way, I'm in love with you,
so right? How or whoever? How would you feel if
the guy said, your husband, your mate of all these years,

(47:10):
said I love you, and you say, what are you
in love with me? And he said, I know I
love you? Am I in love with you after all
these years? I mean, you know, because the truth is beckany.
We know that relationships evolve and change. I always will
be in love with um, Josh. Are there going to

(47:32):
be times, I'm sure when he's like, I need five minutes,
I need a break from you for a second because
you're driving me crazy. It's just the truth. Relationships. I
don't and I don't. I think those are just words too.
I think in this moment when you asked him on
television in a scene when she's working and he's probably
bored and it's been twenty years, and I feel that
way sometimes after four years, we all feel I don't

(47:52):
think the language he knew the language, just like he
doesn't feel like he's in love with her in that moment,
because you could get your period and I feel like
you're in love with someone like you could be hormonal, Like,
what does it even mean? They're together all these years?
They were the same person there, partnership like you don't
know all the time where how you are changes every day?
Yes and yeah, like you said moments. One time I

(48:12):
asked my mom and she I said, Mom, what's the
key to your relationship with that? And just well I
love him that I can't bear him. And I thought,
hilarious answer. But I mean we've all been there exactly exactly.
So what about the the pre nup and post up conversation?

(48:33):
I thought that was a sweating I was sweating. I mean,
it didn't seem like he knew that was coming. She's
allowed to do whatever she wants based on what just happened.
Like it's almost like you know what I mean, Like
he doesn't really have a lot of leverage in the conversation,
But is there dynamic? This guy's got money? Is there? Like?
Is that why this pre conversation's happening? That's what it's about.

(48:55):
So this guy is because because she's very attractive and
she seems really sweet, and he seems not that interesting
to me. I'm not I'm not getting what's going on.
I'm I'm not and I have it from the beginning.
But for whatever reason she did and there I think
there must be a lot of things off camera that
I don't seek because I question it. But one thing

(49:16):
that bothered me about that scene that well, one thing
that made me sad um is I felt like, God,
is this the first time she's been able to feel
safe or oh, connection enough to be able to tell
him in front of a therapist because he the reason
I asked that or say that is because he did
seem oh, wait, you're talking about Karen now, No, I'm
talking about um. Oh sorry, okay, God, oh, because she

(49:39):
said we should go talk to is that mixing? And
I'm like, didn't they about it before? Because he did
seem very generally generally surprised when she asked the question
in front of the therapist, and I felt bad that
she that they didn't have that conversation at home. I
just felt like it seems like a surprise all the
way around. And I hated it, not for him, just
I thought I hated it for her. She couldn't she

(50:02):
felt comfortable talking about it and with him alone. Does
that make sense unless the producers have said, you have
to talk about this. I've had really awkward conversations on
camera that I really didn't want to have, and the
other person doesn't either. I just never understand the man
signing up for this. I haven't. I don't know how
much he's been involved in the show. But there's no
upside to a successful wealthy man being on this show.

(50:22):
There's no upside to a successful wealthy person being on
the show. It is all downhill, like it is all
exposure and putting yourself at risk and anything can happen
like so I don't understand, except for the fact that
if this guy loves If, he loves If, he loves
her and wants to stay with her, and he's screwed

(50:44):
around and gotten caught that this is the Maya cult,
but that she's going to say to him on camera,
are you giving me a post and up? Then I
logically understand that. But short of that, I don't understand.
My fiance would never have any conversation on television. I
couldn't say to him, what did you be for lunch?
He wouldn't. He would He would not be on TV
for that you know. I can't imagine you said to
me the other I please don't ever let us be

(51:04):
on a reality I say, gosh, no, I'm not. That
wouldn't wouldn't wave to me. He wouldn't stand in a
corner and support me in an event like you just
you just wouldn't much less have me say to him,
should we do a post up? He wouldn't do it
for fifty million dollars. There's no there's no upside to this.
So I don't understand these scenes and what's going on
unless it's just because he owes her one. I think

(51:27):
that when they met, this is a very short take
on it. When they met, they were having fun. He
fell he fell in love with this fun, easy, breezy
she'll kind of go along with whatever. And then what
happens every time people get married for whatever reason, it
gets serious, like life comes in. Like you said, reality
sets in and you have to figure out, oh, it's
not just this weekend we're gonna be together. We have

(51:49):
to set that aside and we have to wait for
the next time. And that life happened, and he was like, whoa, whoa.
This is where I gather from watching it. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait,
I thought we had this, and now it's involving involved.
Plus we saw him stress out of her a restaurant
that looked really bad to me on television that he owned,
and then we saw that, and then he was really
rude to her, and I just kept thinking, get up,
get up. He just seemed not fun. He didn't have

(52:11):
fun with her anymore, That's what it seems. And also
sometimes marriages like the idea of the action and the
fame and the light of the show, and they think
together it's gonna be a fun adventure. Might say their
marriage has happened all the time, and it is not
a good idea for relationships. So last and last question
speaking of relationships is um Jamal and Giselle and and that,

(52:36):
And this is where I don't know if I'm judging.
I'm not judging him. He has eight or nine baby mamas,
But like I cannot imagine, this is where the line
of judgment is where for me, I cannot imagine wanting
to be in a relationship with someone who had eight
or nine children from eight or nine other people. And
I thought she was such a class act for saying
I won't comment out of respect for their mothers. But

(52:57):
I also think she doesn't want to be judged on
that too. What the hell I don't I don't understand.
I've spent a wee bit of time with her, and
I know I am gathering this is my opinion, Bethany.
Of course I am gathering that that deeply hurt her
because I think there was a time where she was
considering it like that's her family, and that was her

(53:20):
first She's got these two girls, and then when all
this start happened, you can only forgive so much. And
she's also being a woman of faith, him being a minister,
and maybe this is where I have to say, Okay, Lord,
help me not judge, because I do tend to look
at him and go, how are you leading a congregation?
I would say this to any minister of any faith,
how are you? And then continuing to do that. Well,

(53:42):
it's funny because Candy feels that when she sees women
arguing like that, or her family feels that that's a
bad representation for black women. And you must cringe when
something happens with a priest or a minister. So it's
a religious figurehead and you're sitting there talking about religion
and faith and people are saying, oh, and as that
as you are met another thing that they're teeth baste about,

(54:03):
and it bothers bothers to crap on me. Thank you
for bringing that up. It really bothers me. I'm like, dude, yeah,
represent represent and you're not doing and you're showing your
daughters how to treat a woman. It makes me makes
me mad. And to be in the frison and you're
doing that. Yes, so interesting. We had race and religion

(54:24):
come up in this episode based on representation. You don't
you make a choice to be a religious figurehead. You
got to think about what you're doing and where you're
putting it. You just said the keywords, Bethany, you make
a choice. If he just chose not to live in
the limelight or put himself on because he seems full,
willing and able to do it. She's right. When I've seen,

(54:47):
you know, when white women fight, there's below the belts,
there's all these things, the glasses drown. But we're just
having a temper tantrum. And also we don't say it's
a bad example of white women because we just right
about that. Yeah, you're right. He nailed it on that. Yeah,
you nailed it. I so appreciate you for coming on.
I hope you see it's not about it's not really

(55:09):
about the show. It's about what I love it. I
actually love it because it's in depth and it brings
up a lot of topical conversations that we should be
having and especially today, and I really appreciate it. I
appreciate it too. You're awesome, as I knew you would be.
But yeah, so proud. Yeah, I'm so excited this episode.
I can't wait to talk to my producers when you
get off enough to tell each other how wonderful everything.
Thank you. I love everything that you're doing in this life. Congratulation,

(55:32):
thank you. Likewise, thank you by Hi