February 21, 2025 • 23 mins
If your relationship has both, congrats! If not, don’t panic—you can build them. Also: A hot take on the SICKcare system.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:13):
I'm good. How are you? Nice to meet you?
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Nice to meet you. I love the wallpaper.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
It's brand new. I'm so happy you said it. The
reason I was a few minutes late. This is the
first time I've ever recorded in this new space, and
I'm feeling myself and so this is Valentine's Day, but
this is my new wallpaper.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Yay. I'm so happy you complimented me.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Well, I'm glad that I noticed that, and I love love,
so of course i'd see that.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Well, that's a great way to start.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
So I saw something of yours and I forwarded it
to my team and said, can you book this guy?
I don't even remember what I saw, so we'll get
there eventually. But what would you say you specialize in?
Would you your your are your life coach? You are
a therapist?
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Like?
Speaker 3 (00:55):
What is your background? What do you call yourself if
you're on a plane with someone?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Uh, Well, out there in the world, I'm known more
as the mind architect. I don't particularly like the Monica
life coach. I think it's sort of somewhat diluted, but agreed,
the mind architect is something that I generated necessity being
the mother of invention, I felt there was a void,
and it felt appropriate that I'm re architecting people's in
(01:21):
a thinking space. So my main product is freedom. I'm
bringing people freedom from all of their limitations, fears, and constraints.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
That's interesting because another guy who's on the show sometimes
with me, where do you live?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
I am based in Nevada in Tahoe, Okay.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
There's a guy in LA that I've known for literally
I think twenty five years maybe, and he has a
course called the Freedom Course. And it's not exactly what
you talk about specifically, it's different, but the understanding is
the same, where it's like freeing yourself from the normal
constructs or whatever's going on.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
So who's the guy in La that you know?
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Maybe breckcast Okay, So he has a quoe he's on
here sometimes about He's got all these different core confusions
and these constructs that are interesting.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
You like him.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
So you're re wiring how people are thinking about everything
from business to relationships. I would assume that relationships is
probably a big bulk of it.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Right, It is a huge pole anything that is to
do with the human experience. I help people transcend correct.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
And it's funny because I recently was saying that I
don't understand why emotional intelligence and how people engage is
not taught in school. It's one of the biggest problem.
It's the biggest problem that people ever face in their life.
If sixty percent of marriages are going to end up
in divorce and it's going to be such a traumatic
experience like a death, why in schools kids aren't taught
(02:50):
anything about emotions or how to deal with them.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
It's a great question. We could argue many sides. Perhaps
it's because that's if you want to get into conspiracy.
You know, that's the way that the powers that be
get to control people. Right If people are not as
evolved and they don't have the wherewithal to critically think,
it's much easier to control. But yeah, it's a great question.
Many people have asked me to create syllabuses for schools
(03:14):
because of that very same reason.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Yeah, I mean, you're talking about how people are using
their bodies and sex, but it's not about how they're
using their emotions, which is obviously more important than physical
So what do you find the biggest problems are now
in relationships? Like the biggest commonalities that you're running into.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
I mean, they run the gamut. You know, for women,
it tends to the primal tendencies, the patterns that we see.
For the feminine it's to be beautiful. For the man,
it's to be strong. Right, these are deep in our DNA,
so you've got the alpha male. So nowadays, unfortunately, men
tend to be a little bit more on the boy
spectrum right where they're still looking for acknowledgment, They're wanting
(03:57):
to be reassured. They haven't had these traditional rights of
passage that a lot of boys used to go through
where they had to go out to the world for
three or four days and survive and in more tribal terms,
you know, become a real man. And in women, especially
with social media, there's just an inordinate amount of pressure
and stress on appearance and beauty. So I find that
(04:18):
in relationships most people actually don't know how to relate
because people don't know how to listen. They tend to
just react. The primordially imperative of every mammal is to survive.
And so whatever our deep traumas are based on our childhood,
I'm not good enough, I'm not lovable, or I'm not safe,
I'm not going to be Okay, whatever it is, it
creates people's patterns. That tends to be the thing people
(04:40):
are relating to, not the other person. So relationships tend
to be the conduit for awakening. But also, as you've
seen a lot of dysfunction, So relationships are beautiful because
they're the catalyst for awakening. If you know how to
listen and instead of blaming the other person, see where
you're being triggered by something, that's the opportunity for growth.
(05:01):
But most people don't tend to look through that lens.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
So how much do you think people can really change?
If you're you know, if your experience, people are always
like if you if someone shows you who they are,
believe them. These things that people say, Where do you
stand on if someone shows you who they are, believe them?
Is it different if they have the desire to change?
Or how much can someone really change?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Yeah? For sure. I mean I just did a podcast
with a beautiful woman I don't know how she is,
mid late fifties, and she like you had never met
me before, And she's literally a different woman by virtue
of the conversation because some of her stuff going to
the surface. She is willing to look at it. So
people can change if you're in the right audience, if
you're with someone who knows how to listen and to
help navigate some of these constraints. It's not very common,
(05:49):
unfortunate because people don't hold that kind of space of
unconditional love. They tend to just react. So yes, that
expression of you, you know, if someone shows you who
they are, believe them. I get it. But I do believe.
I mean, I've had someone in my master mind who
was seventy four, who was suicidal, and now she's living
a life of complete vitality. So it gets harder the
(06:11):
older we get, just because our conditioned patterns are a
little bit more reinforced. But change is absolutely possible. I mean,
that's the I'd say the foundation of my work is
introducing humans to a different version of themselves.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
So two people meet and they really fall madly in love.
They are just great together, but logically they may not
be compatible, meaning they can't match it up. Once that
sort of new car smell goes away, then they meet
someone else, and that's more sensible. Like I don't mean
to bring that up because I don't know them and
(06:58):
I don't know their relationship, but the image of what
it seems like is like there's Ben Affleck and Jennifer
Garner who seems sensible and like and loving and solid
and stable, but it seems like Jennifer Lopez is who
he's the most alive with. And you know, and then
so why does someone have to choose one or the other?
How does someone find both in a relationship. Either they
(07:21):
enter into it with the stable person and then find
the fun or they enter into it with the fun
person and find the stable or or maybe not fun
but alive like that that electricity, because the truth is,
I've experienced that electricity and it is so amazing, and
it's sustainable, meaning for a while, like even on vacations
and weeks. And I've also experienced the stability, which feels
(07:44):
really safe. But I'd almost rather the aliveness, although it's
torture when when when the aliveness is there but the
stability isn't. And it's also torture when the stability is
there but the aliveness is and it's sort of boring.
You feel like you're really settling in a different way.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yeah. I write a lot of quotes, and so one
that comes to mind is freedom without structure. Is chaos,
and so you know that sort of speaks to the two. Right,
freedom could point to the aliveness and the vitality structure
could be the stability you speak of, right, and so
without both, So it is a dance of having both.
One of my more popular quotes that people love, I say,
life will present you with people in circumstances to reveal
(08:22):
where you're not free. And so whoever you date, you're
going to get triggered where you're not free, meaning where
have you not actualized and realize what is on the
other side of your own fears and limitations. So, whether
you pick the fun or whether you pick the stability,
the good news is you're still going to have to
come up against where you not free as a being.
(08:42):
For me, the whole dimension of Planet Earth, this paradigm
that we're in is to transcend the constraints with which
we arrive. So in one way, everybody's the right one
because they're going to push your buttons in whatever way
is appropriate for you. And that's the good news. Right.
If you're committed to a relationship, that is that's the
main focus. Right, that people want to stay together, that's fine.
(09:06):
But I interviewed someone interviewed me for a TV show,
this producer, and he was upset because he'd gone through
a divorce recently. This is a big guy here in Hollywood,
and he was reminiscing about how growing up he just
so idolized his parents because they'd been together for fifty
years or something, and he felt like a failure because
he'd got divorced after three Yeah, of course, And I said, yeah, well,
(09:27):
describe the you know, dynamic of your parents' relationship, and
when you get into it, they hadn't slept in the
same bedroom for something like thirty plus years, you know,
and it's like, okay, so success the fact that they
stayed together and.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Checked the box for like, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
And so for me, I'm not interested in that. You know,
where did the soul leave the building? You know?
Speaker 3 (09:47):
So that's exactly That's like the Jones is that everybody
else will We just celebrated fifty years. That's your identity,
that's your personality, But like, how are you living day
to day?
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Exactly exactly. Yeah. So for me, I'm much more interested
in a vital life life where my main product, as
have said, is freedom. So I want people to be
fully alive, you know, to feel vital in every area
of their life expressed. Yeah, and that's up to the
individual to discover that versus we tend to point fingers,
especially in relationships, if only my husband or if only
(10:17):
my wife, you know, there's this sort of agenda that
I would be okay if you know, but then you're
a victim of life, and that's just not what I teach.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
So you're saying, if you have the alive thing and
both people are committed, it's about the commitment, because you
could find your way through anything, but it has to
be the level of commitment to then be able to
do the work, is what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
That's definitely one of the biggest components, and especially sadly
from the male side, and I can speak from my
own experience, I think women are much better at being
all in and fully committed. I think it's part of
the DNA in the biology of a woman to want
to be you know, associated and aligned with a partner.
I think men tend to be a little bit more
skittish and scared and they don't fully commit, which ironically
then becomes a vicious cycle. Right because one of the
(11:00):
primordial things that a woman wants his safety, and if,
as the intuitive beings that you are, you don't feel
held or safe in the presence of your man because
he's not fully committed, that's when more of these masculine
tendencies come out, and the feminine or you know, the
guys will be like, oh, well, she's just so naggy
and she's such a bitch. I'm like, well, chances are
you're not fully committed, so she doesn't feel safe. So
(11:21):
commitment is, I would say, much more incumbent upon the
masculine to hold that container.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Yeah, I agree with you. I like that.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
I think that's interesting, and I think it's like to
break it down that commitment is the is the most
important thing because even in business, if you want it
and you have a good product, it's going to be
really hard to be successful. But if you're committed to it,
you probably could do it if you have a good product,
and the alive relationship is the good product. So that's
This is something that I've been talking about a bit
(11:49):
because I think it's a I think it's actually what's
it called when like something's chronic, it's like an epidemic. Okay,
I think this is a relationship epidemic that no one
talks about. And I think it's really interesting because I've
now seen it in the wild so many times. So
I was on a girl's podcast yesterday. Young girl. Obviously
(12:10):
she doesn't know it. I didn't know until it was
fifty four, but I was explaining it to her because
she's the one who needs to hear it at twenty four.
So the young girls are being marketed the ring, the wedding,
the honeymoon, get the this, get the that, And in
many cases it's sort of like a calling card to
say to your other friends, like no, I don't really work.
He doesn't really want me to work and to go
out and shop and go to lunch. And it sounds
(12:31):
in the moment like I'm being judgmental about it. And
let's say, for the sake of this conversation, I'm not
being judgmental about You can want whatever you want. You're
allowed to want to be home, to eat bombbonds, whatever
you want to do. You could want to be a
mom at home, whatever it is. You want a shop
all day. I don't care what anyone else does. Okay,
here's what I've found, and it's crazy. So I've been
meeting men that are in their fifties on the average,
(12:55):
some of the late forties, some are sixties, but like,
on the average, in their fifties. Out of ten men,
because I'm taking the last several years of my dating era,
out of ten men, I have met four men that
have all that I've seen have all have full custody
of multiple children, like three four, two to four children. Okay, prime,
(13:19):
they have sole custody. The wife who was very much involved,
who they had a nice marriage with, has gone off
the deep end, either drinking or pills or whatever it is.
And I said to two of them, I asked, because
I had a theory about it. I said, is let
me guess? I said, So, you met someone. She's beautiful,
You're you're the breadwinner, she's interesting, and this is what
(13:42):
you guys both signed up for.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
She's not gonna work.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
She's going out of the French going to raise the
kids because you have all these kids, and she's doing
the costumes and she's being part of the community. And
you guys are going on these great vacations and then
the kids go off to school and you're thriving, you're
continuing to be handsome and work out and successful and
glow up in your career and be smarter and talking
to interesting people as society changes in business and being
an entrepreneur. And she's basically now the kids are grown
(14:07):
and she's sitting drinking wine and popping pills and has
no purpose. And each guy, even of all four, is like, yeah,
and I told her she should do something. She should
own a store to start a charity, which is like
literally so degrading and giving them a cookie because now
it's like, you're fifty. The woman's fifty three years old.
She's not as hot as she was, and now we're
going to open a store for her and like hand
(14:29):
her a cookie while you're thriving. And we got two
guys I asked and described it like that. We're like,
you're literally bullseye. It's really on both parties parts. The
(14:52):
guy thought the girl was going to be happy with
that business deal too. They both enter in. He thinks
he's going to be happy with that partner, and he's
born out of his fucking mind because he's nothing to
talk to her about. And she's miserable because she's watching
him succeed and she's watching women rise up and succeed,
and she's sitting in a cul de sact, drinking wine
and popping pills and she checks out completely because she
has a breakdown. This is what's happened with four different people,
(15:14):
from addiction to mental all of it.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, you're not wrong.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
So what do you what do you what do you
think about that? What do you have to say about that?
About the constructs being set up in society for young
women in particular?
Speaker 2 (15:30):
I mean one of the distinctions I make that has
certainly appealed to and touched in maybe a little discomfiting
way a lot of women out there, millions of women
who've heard the distinction is I think one of the
greatest qualities of being the feminine is your resilience. Right.
The resilience occurs on both sides, like men are resilient
in different ways, but I think the feminine of the
(15:52):
two is way more resilient in your capacity to withstand
everything from first of all, sadly the way you've been
treated by men for centuries, but also just childbirth and
child rearing and breastfeeding, and you know, women are tough
as nails, right, Like I think it was Betty White
who had that joke about you know, gross at of balls.
She's like, balls are sensitive, you know, forget that, you
(16:14):
know vagina right, that bing can take a pounding, is
what she said, you know, to quote her. So what
I've realized in my work over the last three decades
is that that resilience for a woman, which is an asset,
had a beautiful quality, meaning that you ladies, can pretty
much withstand anything when it's coupled with the psychological underlying
constraint of inadequacy, meaning that the woman feels somehow not
(16:37):
enough right, not pretty enough, not whatever enough right. That's
part of the construct human. But the coupling of your
resilience with a feeling of inadequacy in the feminine leads
to tolerance, and tolerance is very different than resilience. And
so what happens is because you can withstand whatever it
is fill in the blank, halm, abuse, boredom or being
(16:59):
dis by your moralization, yeah, whatever it is that you do,
because if it's in the realm of not recognizing your
own worth and value, which again is a very common
thing for all humans, then it turns into tolerance. So
these case studies that you're citing you know. My assertion
is that those women found what they thought was, you know,
maybe a comfortable situation, but from a position of not
(17:22):
honoring their own worth, and so they put up with
which is the tolerance, and then in the absence of that,
they don't know what to do anymore because they never
nurtured that sense of self value for themselves.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
Right. And also it's connected to what you said about beauty,
because I think it's based in superficiality. It's based in
what do I look like? And I think it's about
getting the guy. It's about the guy as like an
asset versus compatibility. It's kind of like people are goal oriented.
They just want to get the X and then they're
(17:54):
sitting in it and it's not based on commitment or
compatibility per se. I think. So I just think that this.
I cringe when I hear these young girls and I
watch them all over social media, you know, talking about
wanting to get the rich guy and get to this
guy is going to take care of me and all this.
I'm thinking, like you're on a road to misery, and
(18:17):
that young women just can't understand and their mothers need
to be guiding them in this way. And I'm trying
to do that and talk about it a lot because
I think it's really important. I think it's affecting society,
it's divorces, and it's affecting kids like all of them.
It's like it's a major mental health issue.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
It is, And to me, it all stems back to
that same thing which I just said, which is the
absence of self worth, Which.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Is the absence of self worth? Yeah, and then how
much where do you stand on this is tricky because
we can't belittle something that's real. But I a lot
of people talk about depression and the over medication, and
I know some people that have been on medication for
years because of depression, and there's a fine line. There
(18:59):
are people that actually are going to take their lives
and that's a serious matter. There are other people that
are just the words anxiety, the words depression and then
medicating and one day decide they want to just actually
feel something and go off of the medication. And maybe
they're not drinking as much, maybe they're trying to figure
out their levels through meditation, through yoga, et cetera. So
(19:20):
I want to know where you stand on like the
overall depression and being medicated for it, like a just
throwing medicine at the problem.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Yeah, I mean, I'm very outspoken about our sick care system. Right.
We have a disease management system. We don't have a
healthcare system. Right. If you look at the genesis of
what it is to become a doctor, they learn structure,
which is called anatomy. They learn function, which is called physiology,
and then they learn what goes wrong with both, which
is called pathology. Right, that's what a doctor specializes in.
(19:54):
And so there's no education about health. So we've got
to first understand that the system we have in place
has got to do with health. There's no money to
be garnered from somebody who's in good shape, big farmer.
You know, they're a business. They have shareholders that they're
accountable to. They want to make money, and the way
you make money is by having sick people. So, first
(20:14):
of all, I'm a huge stand for true health, but
I'm an expert in health. If you're in a car accident,
don't come to me. Sure you know, allopathic medicine could
save your life, but it's got nothing to do with health,
nothing whatsoever. It's like me taking one of my professional
athletes you know, a baseball player to a new coach
and he's like, oh, great, what's his coach specializing? I'm saying, oh,
he specializes in striking out. It's like, well, why the
(20:37):
fuck am I going to go and see that guy?
You know, that's hiss Asinine is going to see a
doctor because you're interested in health. So that's the first
thing people I want them to understand is that putting drugs,
you know, SSRIs or beta blockers or whatever it is.
Anyone's taking these statins, all of these things have got
nothing to do with health. And more and more as
it gets exposed, people are realizing it's actually quite the contrary,
(20:59):
especially as it comes to suicide ideation. I've got a
documentary I'm in that comes out in a couple of
months about this family who sadly lost their eighteen year
old kid who was a big rapper. I didn't know
who was, but he's got millions of fans and he
took his own life. And they heard my distinction around suicide,
which to me, is a very powerful and potent time
in someone's life, if you understand what it's actually about.
(21:22):
It's not about taking your life. It's about discarding and
letting go of quote unquote killing the part of you
that no longer serves you, right, the thing that creates
your constraint. So there is a form of death that occurs,
but it's not to you the being. It's to the
current narrative that hasn't served you since you were a child.
And that's really where the depression lies, is that people
(21:42):
are dragging the quintessential baggage from their history that hasn't
been reconciled, and it's a heaviness. Anxiety on the flip
side tends to be future orrent it exactly right. So
one of my quotes again, I say past her informs
future fear. So wherever we've had disappointments and pain in
our history, than the brain, which is just to predict
and protect because we're survival oriented mammals, is now worried
(22:04):
about the replication of those things that hurt us. That's
called anxiety. So I help mitigate both sides because if
you can reconcile your history, accept things as they were,
you know there may be some healing to do around it,
then you equally mitigate any anxiety. So as long as
you're in either camp, you know, you're basically screwed, and
I don't mean that in a dismissive way, but there's
(22:27):
no results that you're not going to human vitality and
why people suffer is not because they've got a deficiency
of SSRIs right, that's not how it works. You're carrying
some trauma that hasn't been resolved.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
You're putting a band aid on a broken leg, is
what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Yeah, yeah, So sick care has got no interest in
the vitality of a human being. It's about pushing drugs,
which is fine, it's a business. You know, everyone who
has a business wants to make money. But I want
people to wake up and realize that we have a
disease management system with beautiful humans. You know, people would
become doctors and nurses, they care, but then they are
inside of a system that has got no interest in
(23:03):
actually the true well being of the human Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
I agree with you wholeheartedly.
I'm good. How are you? Nice to meet you?
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Nice to meet you. I love the wallpaper.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
It's brand new. I'm so happy you said it. The
reason I was a few minutes late. This is the
first time I've ever recorded in this new space, and
I'm feeling myself and so this is Valentine's Day, but
this is my new wallpaper.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Yay. I'm so happy you complimented me.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Well, I'm glad that I noticed that, and I love love,
so of course i'd see that.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Well, that's a great way to start.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
So I saw something of yours and I forwarded it
to my team and said, can you book this guy?
I don't even remember what I saw, so we'll get
there eventually. But what would you say you specialize in?
Would you your your are your life coach? You are
a therapist?
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Like?
Speaker 3 (00:55):
What is your background? What do you call yourself if
you're on a plane with someone?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Uh, Well, out there in the world, I'm known more
as the mind architect. I don't particularly like the Monica
life coach. I think it's sort of somewhat diluted, but agreed,
the mind architect is something that I generated necessity being
the mother of invention, I felt there was a void,
and it felt appropriate that I'm re architecting people's in
(01:21):
a thinking space. So my main product is freedom. I'm
bringing people freedom from all of their limitations, fears, and constraints.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
That's interesting because another guy who's on the show sometimes
with me, where do you live?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
I am based in Nevada in Tahoe, Okay.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
There's a guy in LA that I've known for literally
I think twenty five years maybe, and he has a
course called the Freedom Course. And it's not exactly what
you talk about specifically, it's different, but the understanding is
the same, where it's like freeing yourself from the normal
constructs or whatever's going on.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
So who's the guy in La that you know?
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Maybe breckcast Okay, So he has a quoe he's on
here sometimes about He's got all these different core confusions
and these constructs that are interesting.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
You like him.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
So you're re wiring how people are thinking about everything
from business to relationships. I would assume that relationships is
probably a big bulk of it.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Right, It is a huge pole anything that is to
do with the human experience. I help people transcend correct.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
And it's funny because I recently was saying that I
don't understand why emotional intelligence and how people engage is
not taught in school. It's one of the biggest problem.
It's the biggest problem that people ever face in their life.
If sixty percent of marriages are going to end up
in divorce and it's going to be such a traumatic
experience like a death, why in schools kids aren't taught
(02:50):
anything about emotions or how to deal with them.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
It's a great question. We could argue many sides. Perhaps
it's because that's if you want to get into conspiracy.
You know, that's the way that the powers that be
get to control people. Right If people are not as
evolved and they don't have the wherewithal to critically think,
it's much easier to control. But yeah, it's a great question.
Many people have asked me to create syllabuses for schools
(03:14):
because of that very same reason.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Yeah, I mean, you're talking about how people are using
their bodies and sex, but it's not about how they're
using their emotions, which is obviously more important than physical
So what do you find the biggest problems are now
in relationships? Like the biggest commonalities that you're running into.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
I mean, they run the gamut. You know, for women,
it tends to the primal tendencies, the patterns that we see.
For the feminine it's to be beautiful. For the man,
it's to be strong. Right, these are deep in our DNA,
so you've got the alpha male. So nowadays, unfortunately, men
tend to be a little bit more on the boy
spectrum right where they're still looking for acknowledgment, They're wanting
(03:57):
to be reassured. They haven't had these traditional rights of
passage that a lot of boys used to go through
where they had to go out to the world for
three or four days and survive and in more tribal terms,
you know, become a real man. And in women, especially
with social media, there's just an inordinate amount of pressure
and stress on appearance and beauty. So I find that
(04:18):
in relationships most people actually don't know how to relate
because people don't know how to listen. They tend to
just react. The primordially imperative of every mammal is to survive.
And so whatever our deep traumas are based on our childhood,
I'm not good enough, I'm not lovable, or I'm not safe,
I'm not going to be Okay, whatever it is, it
creates people's patterns. That tends to be the thing people
(04:40):
are relating to, not the other person. So relationships tend
to be the conduit for awakening. But also, as you've
seen a lot of dysfunction, So relationships are beautiful because
they're the catalyst for awakening. If you know how to
listen and instead of blaming the other person, see where
you're being triggered by something, that's the opportunity for growth.
(05:01):
But most people don't tend to look through that lens.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
So how much do you think people can really change?
If you're you know, if your experience, people are always
like if you if someone shows you who they are,
believe them. These things that people say, Where do you
stand on if someone shows you who they are, believe them?
Is it different if they have the desire to change?
Or how much can someone really change?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Yeah? For sure. I mean I just did a podcast
with a beautiful woman I don't know how she is,
mid late fifties, and she like you had never met
me before, And she's literally a different woman by virtue
of the conversation because some of her stuff going to
the surface. She is willing to look at it. So
people can change if you're in the right audience, if
you're with someone who knows how to listen and to
help navigate some of these constraints. It's not very common,
(05:49):
unfortunate because people don't hold that kind of space of
unconditional love. They tend to just react. So yes, that
expression of you, you know, if someone shows you who
they are, believe them. I get it. But I do believe.
I mean, I've had someone in my master mind who
was seventy four, who was suicidal, and now she's living
a life of complete vitality. So it gets harder the
(06:11):
older we get, just because our conditioned patterns are a
little bit more reinforced. But change is absolutely possible. I mean,
that's the I'd say the foundation of my work is
introducing humans to a different version of themselves.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
So two people meet and they really fall madly in love.
They are just great together, but logically they may not
be compatible, meaning they can't match it up. Once that
sort of new car smell goes away, then they meet
someone else, and that's more sensible. Like I don't mean
to bring that up because I don't know them and
(06:58):
I don't know their relationship, but the image of what
it seems like is like there's Ben Affleck and Jennifer
Garner who seems sensible and like and loving and solid
and stable, but it seems like Jennifer Lopez is who
he's the most alive with. And you know, and then
so why does someone have to choose one or the other?
How does someone find both in a relationship. Either they
(07:21):
enter into it with the stable person and then find
the fun or they enter into it with the fun
person and find the stable or or maybe not fun
but alive like that that electricity, because the truth is,
I've experienced that electricity and it is so amazing, and
it's sustainable, meaning for a while, like even on vacations
and weeks. And I've also experienced the stability, which feels
(07:44):
really safe. But I'd almost rather the aliveness, although it's
torture when when when the aliveness is there but the
stability isn't. And it's also torture when the stability is
there but the aliveness is and it's sort of boring.
You feel like you're really settling in a different way.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yeah. I write a lot of quotes, and so one
that comes to mind is freedom without structure. Is chaos,
and so you know that sort of speaks to the two. Right,
freedom could point to the aliveness and the vitality structure
could be the stability you speak of, right, and so
without both, So it is a dance of having both.
One of my more popular quotes that people love, I say,
life will present you with people in circumstances to reveal
(08:22):
where you're not free. And so whoever you date, you're
going to get triggered where you're not free, meaning where
have you not actualized and realize what is on the
other side of your own fears and limitations. So, whether
you pick the fun or whether you pick the stability,
the good news is you're still going to have to
come up against where you not free as a being.
(08:42):
For me, the whole dimension of Planet Earth, this paradigm
that we're in is to transcend the constraints with which
we arrive. So in one way, everybody's the right one
because they're going to push your buttons in whatever way
is appropriate for you. And that's the good news. Right.
If you're committed to a relationship, that is that's the
main focus. Right, that people want to stay together, that's fine.
(09:06):
But I interviewed someone interviewed me for a TV show,
this producer, and he was upset because he'd gone through
a divorce recently. This is a big guy here in Hollywood,
and he was reminiscing about how growing up he just
so idolized his parents because they'd been together for fifty
years or something, and he felt like a failure because
he'd got divorced after three Yeah, of course, And I said, yeah, well,
(09:27):
describe the you know, dynamic of your parents' relationship, and
when you get into it, they hadn't slept in the
same bedroom for something like thirty plus years, you know,
and it's like, okay, so success the fact that they
stayed together and.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Checked the box for like, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
And so for me, I'm not interested in that. You know,
where did the soul leave the building? You know?
Speaker 3 (09:47):
So that's exactly That's like the Jones is that everybody
else will We just celebrated fifty years. That's your identity,
that's your personality, But like, how are you living day
to day?
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Exactly exactly. Yeah. So for me, I'm much more interested
in a vital life life where my main product, as
have said, is freedom. So I want people to be
fully alive, you know, to feel vital in every area
of their life expressed. Yeah, and that's up to the
individual to discover that versus we tend to point fingers,
especially in relationships, if only my husband or if only
(10:17):
my wife, you know, there's this sort of agenda that
I would be okay if you know, but then you're
a victim of life, and that's just not what I teach.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
So you're saying, if you have the alive thing and
both people are committed, it's about the commitment, because you
could find your way through anything, but it has to
be the level of commitment to then be able to
do the work, is what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
That's definitely one of the biggest components, and especially sadly
from the male side, and I can speak from my
own experience, I think women are much better at being
all in and fully committed. I think it's part of
the DNA in the biology of a woman to want
to be you know, associated and aligned with a partner.
I think men tend to be a little bit more
skittish and scared and they don't fully commit, which ironically
then becomes a vicious cycle. Right because one of the
(11:00):
primordial things that a woman wants his safety, and if,
as the intuitive beings that you are, you don't feel
held or safe in the presence of your man because
he's not fully committed, that's when more of these masculine
tendencies come out, and the feminine or you know, the
guys will be like, oh, well, she's just so naggy
and she's such a bitch. I'm like, well, chances are
you're not fully committed, so she doesn't feel safe. So
(11:21):
commitment is, I would say, much more incumbent upon the
masculine to hold that container.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Yeah, I agree with you. I like that.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
I think that's interesting, and I think it's like to
break it down that commitment is the is the most
important thing because even in business, if you want it
and you have a good product, it's going to be
really hard to be successful. But if you're committed to it,
you probably could do it if you have a good product,
and the alive relationship is the good product. So that's
This is something that I've been talking about a bit
(11:49):
because I think it's a I think it's actually what's
it called when like something's chronic, it's like an epidemic. Okay,
I think this is a relationship epidemic that no one
talks about. And I think it's really interesting because I've
now seen it in the wild so many times. So
I was on a girl's podcast yesterday. Young girl. Obviously
(12:10):
she doesn't know it. I didn't know until it was
fifty four, but I was explaining it to her because
she's the one who needs to hear it at twenty four.
So the young girls are being marketed the ring, the wedding,
the honeymoon, get the this, get the that, And in
many cases it's sort of like a calling card to
say to your other friends, like no, I don't really work.
He doesn't really want me to work and to go
out and shop and go to lunch. And it sounds
(12:31):
in the moment like I'm being judgmental about it. And
let's say, for the sake of this conversation, I'm not
being judgmental about You can want whatever you want. You're
allowed to want to be home, to eat bombbonds, whatever
you want to do. You could want to be a
mom at home, whatever it is. You want a shop
all day. I don't care what anyone else does. Okay,
here's what I've found, and it's crazy. So I've been
meeting men that are in their fifties on the average,
(12:55):
some of the late forties, some are sixties, but like,
on the average, in their fifties. Out of ten men,
because I'm taking the last several years of my dating era,
out of ten men, I have met four men that
have all that I've seen have all have full custody
of multiple children, like three four, two to four children. Okay, prime,
(13:19):
they have sole custody. The wife who was very much involved,
who they had a nice marriage with, has gone off
the deep end, either drinking or pills or whatever it is.
And I said to two of them, I asked, because
I had a theory about it. I said, is let
me guess? I said, So, you met someone. She's beautiful,
You're you're the breadwinner, she's interesting, and this is what
(13:42):
you guys both signed up for.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
She's not gonna work.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
She's going out of the French going to raise the
kids because you have all these kids, and she's doing
the costumes and she's being part of the community. And
you guys are going on these great vacations and then
the kids go off to school and you're thriving, you're
continuing to be handsome and work out and successful and
glow up in your career and be smarter and talking
to interesting people as society changes in business and being
an entrepreneur. And she's basically now the kids are grown
(14:07):
and she's sitting drinking wine and popping pills and has
no purpose. And each guy, even of all four, is like, yeah,
and I told her she should do something. She should
own a store to start a charity, which is like
literally so degrading and giving them a cookie because now
it's like, you're fifty. The woman's fifty three years old.
She's not as hot as she was, and now we're
going to open a store for her and like hand
(14:29):
her a cookie while you're thriving. And we got two
guys I asked and described it like that. We're like,
you're literally bullseye. It's really on both parties parts. The
(14:52):
guy thought the girl was going to be happy with
that business deal too. They both enter in. He thinks
he's going to be happy with that partner, and he's
born out of his fucking mind because he's nothing to
talk to her about. And she's miserable because she's watching
him succeed and she's watching women rise up and succeed,
and she's sitting in a cul de sact, drinking wine
and popping pills and she checks out completely because she
has a breakdown. This is what's happened with four different people,
(15:14):
from addiction to mental all of it.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, you're not wrong.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
So what do you what do you what do you
think about that? What do you have to say about that?
About the constructs being set up in society for young
women in particular?
Speaker 2 (15:30):
I mean one of the distinctions I make that has
certainly appealed to and touched in maybe a little discomfiting
way a lot of women out there, millions of women
who've heard the distinction is I think one of the
greatest qualities of being the feminine is your resilience. Right.
The resilience occurs on both sides, like men are resilient
in different ways, but I think the feminine of the
(15:52):
two is way more resilient in your capacity to withstand
everything from first of all, sadly the way you've been
treated by men for centuries, but also just childbirth and
child rearing and breastfeeding, and you know, women are tough
as nails, right, Like I think it was Betty White
who had that joke about you know, gross at of balls.
She's like, balls are sensitive, you know, forget that, you
(16:14):
know vagina right, that bing can take a pounding, is
what she said, you know, to quote her. So what
I've realized in my work over the last three decades
is that that resilience for a woman, which is an asset,
had a beautiful quality, meaning that you ladies, can pretty
much withstand anything when it's coupled with the psychological underlying
constraint of inadequacy, meaning that the woman feels somehow not
(16:37):
enough right, not pretty enough, not whatever enough right. That's
part of the construct human. But the coupling of your
resilience with a feeling of inadequacy in the feminine leads
to tolerance, and tolerance is very different than resilience. And
so what happens is because you can withstand whatever it
is fill in the blank, halm, abuse, boredom or being
(16:59):
dis by your moralization, yeah, whatever it is that you do,
because if it's in the realm of not recognizing your
own worth and value, which again is a very common
thing for all humans, then it turns into tolerance. So
these case studies that you're citing you know. My assertion
is that those women found what they thought was, you know,
maybe a comfortable situation, but from a position of not
(17:22):
honoring their own worth, and so they put up with
which is the tolerance, and then in the absence of that,
they don't know what to do anymore because they never
nurtured that sense of self value for themselves.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
Right. And also it's connected to what you said about beauty,
because I think it's based in superficiality. It's based in
what do I look like? And I think it's about
getting the guy. It's about the guy as like an
asset versus compatibility. It's kind of like people are goal oriented.
They just want to get the X and then they're
(17:54):
sitting in it and it's not based on commitment or
compatibility per se. I think. So I just think that this.
I cringe when I hear these young girls and I
watch them all over social media, you know, talking about
wanting to get the rich guy and get to this
guy is going to take care of me and all this.
I'm thinking, like you're on a road to misery, and
(18:17):
that young women just can't understand and their mothers need
to be guiding them in this way. And I'm trying
to do that and talk about it a lot because
I think it's really important. I think it's affecting society,
it's divorces, and it's affecting kids like all of them.
It's like it's a major mental health issue.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
It is, And to me, it all stems back to
that same thing which I just said, which is the
absence of self worth, Which.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Is the absence of self worth? Yeah, and then how
much where do you stand on this is tricky because
we can't belittle something that's real. But I a lot
of people talk about depression and the over medication, and
I know some people that have been on medication for
years because of depression, and there's a fine line. There
(18:59):
are people that actually are going to take their lives
and that's a serious matter. There are other people that
are just the words anxiety, the words depression and then
medicating and one day decide they want to just actually
feel something and go off of the medication. And maybe
they're not drinking as much, maybe they're trying to figure
out their levels through meditation, through yoga, et cetera. So
(19:20):
I want to know where you stand on like the
overall depression and being medicated for it, like a just
throwing medicine at the problem.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Yeah, I mean, I'm very outspoken about our sick care system. Right.
We have a disease management system. We don't have a
healthcare system. Right. If you look at the genesis of
what it is to become a doctor, they learn structure,
which is called anatomy. They learn function, which is called physiology,
and then they learn what goes wrong with both, which
is called pathology. Right, that's what a doctor specializes in.
(19:54):
And so there's no education about health. So we've got
to first understand that the system we have in place
has got to do with health. There's no money to
be garnered from somebody who's in good shape, big farmer.
You know, they're a business. They have shareholders that they're
accountable to. They want to make money, and the way
you make money is by having sick people. So, first
(20:14):
of all, I'm a huge stand for true health, but
I'm an expert in health. If you're in a car accident,
don't come to me. Sure you know, allopathic medicine could
save your life, but it's got nothing to do with health,
nothing whatsoever. It's like me taking one of my professional
athletes you know, a baseball player to a new coach
and he's like, oh, great, what's his coach specializing? I'm saying, oh,
he specializes in striking out. It's like, well, why the
(20:37):
fuck am I going to go and see that guy?
You know, that's hiss Asinine is going to see a
doctor because you're interested in health. So that's the first
thing people I want them to understand is that putting drugs,
you know, SSRIs or beta blockers or whatever it is.
Anyone's taking these statins, all of these things have got
nothing to do with health. And more and more as
it gets exposed, people are realizing it's actually quite the contrary,
(20:59):
especially as it comes to suicide ideation. I've got a
documentary I'm in that comes out in a couple of
months about this family who sadly lost their eighteen year
old kid who was a big rapper. I didn't know
who was, but he's got millions of fans and he
took his own life. And they heard my distinction around suicide,
which to me, is a very powerful and potent time
in someone's life, if you understand what it's actually about.
(21:22):
It's not about taking your life. It's about discarding and
letting go of quote unquote killing the part of you
that no longer serves you, right, the thing that creates
your constraint. So there is a form of death that occurs,
but it's not to you the being. It's to the
current narrative that hasn't served you since you were a child.
And that's really where the depression lies, is that people
(21:42):
are dragging the quintessential baggage from their history that hasn't
been reconciled, and it's a heaviness. Anxiety on the flip
side tends to be future orrent it exactly right. So
one of my quotes again, I say past her informs
future fear. So wherever we've had disappointments and pain in
our history, than the brain, which is just to predict
and protect because we're survival oriented mammals, is now worried
(22:04):
about the replication of those things that hurt us. That's
called anxiety. So I help mitigate both sides because if
you can reconcile your history, accept things as they were,
you know there may be some healing to do around it,
then you equally mitigate any anxiety. So as long as
you're in either camp, you know, you're basically screwed, and
I don't mean that in a dismissive way, but there's
(22:27):
no results that you're not going to human vitality and
why people suffer is not because they've got a deficiency
of SSRIs right, that's not how it works. You're carrying
some trauma that hasn't been resolved.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
You're putting a band aid on a broken leg, is
what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Yeah, yeah, So sick care has got no interest in
the vitality of a human being. It's about pushing drugs,
which is fine, it's a business. You know, everyone who
has a business wants to make money. But I want
people to wake up and realize that we have a
disease management system with beautiful humans. You know, people would
become doctors and nurses, they care, but then they are
inside of a system that has got no interest in
(23:03):
actually the true well being of the human Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
I agree with you wholeheartedly.
Host
Bethenny Frankel
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