October 16, 2024 • 23 mins
Character, kindness, consistency, communication, commitment. (OK, one "C" is a "K.") Find these and you'll find love. PLUS: Get a free gift from Evan here: https://evanmarckatz.com/justb
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
We have Evan Mark Katz, a dating coach, dating advisor,
dating expert to help you find the love of your life.
And he also has a gift for you guys at
the end, so you can get some of his information
very easily solution based dating information.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Evan welcometh any, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
So Loreel has this whole tag like I'm worth it.
And the thing is, I have said that to someone
like you could say if you're the CEO and they're
in terns applying, you could be like, listen, you're going
to be very successful here and you're going to get
You're gonna get out exactly what you put in, and
I'm worth it, Like this is the job you should
take if you want it, but you need to be
(00:54):
able to meet me halfway. I have found that men
they're looking for that job, but they also would get
take the internship too, Like that's what That's kind of
what I was saying about the steak and the chicken.
That's exactly what I meaning. I've met guys that like,
in their mind they've written the list they want to
meet the woman, they know what they want, but they're
used to their habits so in the moment they're going
(01:16):
to take they're going to go for the intern job.
But partly you're like, no, no, no, your intention you said
your intention was this, And then both people have to
check in and like do the work. And you got
to find the person that wants to do the work.
Like both people have to even use language like that.
I think, like, do you want.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
To do the work?
Speaker 4 (01:33):
I because you've dazzled me with your knowledge today, I
want to I want to respectfully push back on you. Okay,
we always talk so much, and again it's it's it's
part of the cultural zeitgeist. Relationships take work. You got
to do the work. I come from a different place
because I've had relationships that required a lot of work.
They all ended they required so much work, they were
(01:55):
so draining. I want to work almost from a different
paradigm and say, good relationships are fundamentally easy.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Right, but they take some effort because you.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
Dynamic keyword, you nail that you're so good at this,
they take effort, Like watering the garden takes effort, right.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Right, It's not obligation, it's desire, but it's an effort
because yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
But everybody's been in a relationship that was one.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
No, totally, totally facts another and.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
They try so hard because they don't want to admit
this isn't working. That they work and work and work
and spend decades working on their relationship where I'm like,
I'm I gotta be sure. If fifty percent of your
time you're fighting, there has to be an easier relationship.
Let's find a relationship where like ninety ninety five percent
of the time smooth sailing. And then we just got
to iron out the differences. And that's just human beings connecting.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Yes, because I said, I said the other day, if
you don't know yes, it's no. I really believe that
if you don't know yes, it's no, you can't be like,
I'm not sure, I think, but that's where the work
comes in.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
I kind of agree with you.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
I believe something differently because I didn't know with my wife,
and just the fact that I exist means that there
has to be some counter argument to oh my god,
you just know every time I just knew she dumped me.
When you're making the biggest decision of your life, it
would be normal to have questions like literally I got engaged,
were using my father the ring my father gave to
my mother in nineteen sixty eight. I said, Mom, bring
(03:18):
the ring out to pass over. We're going to go
to my sister's place in San Francisco. I might propose
this weekend. I don't know. But I was thirty four,
she was thirty seven. We both wanted kids. We were
on an accelerated timeline. I didn't know she was indispensable
to me. I didn't figure out she was indispensable to
me until after we were married. I took an educated
(03:40):
guest and a leap of faith. That turned out to
be the best decision I ever made.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
But I would specially if you have if you have
a bad track record in love, it's really hard to
know anything when nothing's ever worked out before. I agree
with that too, But I'm not saying just no feeling,
just no feeling is great, like I'm all for it.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
I just don't think everybody learns well.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
I know, but I have to put the difference on
that because for me, also with the way that I
was raised and the the na seeing good role models
for relationships, I guess there's always some leap of faith.
You don't, you can't, you're not You're not a soothsayer.
But I would need to know yes to do it.
I would need to know yes to do.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
It, what I knew about my wife, what my wife
knew about me. To individualize this, you can't make this
for everybody. Is it was easy? That was huge. We
really didn't fight, right. We naturally shared the same values. Right.
We come from middle class backgrounds.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
We make fundamental the fundamentals.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
The unsexy stuff, character, kindness, consistency, communication, commitment check check check.
So on paper, is she the most impressive person I've
ever dated?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
No?
Speaker 4 (04:51):
The last guy she did it before me was six seven.
I can't compete with that on five ' nine. The
truth he was in some grad school to be computer
scientists or something. I'm just a guy who talks about
women before a living. So the idea that you're dating
the person who's the best in every category, No, you're
dating the person who when you're with them, you can
(05:12):
let down your guard, you can be yourself. You can
take a twelve hour car ride without a radio and
not get bored, and you can make a hundred little
decisions together without wanting to kill each other. And that
doesn't show up in a bumble profile. And that doesn't
show up on a first date. And that's the hard part.
We need to give it enough time to breathe, to
go through a few seasons together to see, oh wow,
(05:32):
it's still going really smoothly. This is confusing.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
You're one hundred percent right, one hundred percent right.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
So we get engaged at the peak of the roller
coaster and then we discover it's a mistake. It's really
a smoother ride. And I'm sure you've had your experiences.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
No, I completely agree with you. It's a compatibility aspect,
the energy match, and you're right. Is it just it
should feel in that way? It should feel easy. What
about comparisons? What about people coming in and wanting to
take the oli carte menu even they were with the
last relationship and yes, the guy was a little crazy,
but he was exciting and he bought me presents, or
he wanted to go on vacations or he did that.
(06:09):
Like what about the comparing that people do where they
want to kind of take something from that and if
this person who does make them feel good but doesn't
have that one thing, So how do you deal with
these women? Because women are nitpicky, women are pain pains
and the asses and women are constantly finding the ant
at the picnic. So what about these ants at the
picnics and these comparisons.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
I have the final thing in my signature course Love You,
is an exercise called the husband Picker. It's like, it's
like a fifteen minute exercise. I'm not going to go
through the whole thing with you, but it touches on
the exact same thing you're talking about. If I just said, hey,
most important thing you need to get character, kindness, consistency, communication, commitment,
because if you're missing one of them, you're screwed. Doesn't
(06:51):
matter how gorgeous or hot, or rich or smart he is.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
It's character, kindness.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Consistency, communication, commitment. Maybe add connection because I think that's
really important too, So we could call it the five
SE's the six seeds. One of them is a K.
We don't have to be too precise about it. But
the idea is these are the baseline things. And if
I ask you or most of your women listeners, what's
the reason that you didn't work out with Brad dan John,
(07:17):
it's going to be one of those six things. It's
not going to be I wish he was five eleven,
but he's really five to ten, right, it's not going
to be I wanted to make, you know, two hundred
and fifty thousand dollars, but he'd made one hundred.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
What was the last one? Commitment and then what character?
Speaker 4 (07:31):
Kindness, consistency, communication, commitment, and connection is probably a sixth
one because you could have the nicest guy in the world,
but if you don't feel a connection with him, it
doesn't really matter.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Where would you put Like the energy match that so
many people talk about and the dimming of the light,
like someone you're alive. They love the aliveness, they're attracted
to it, but like your light is being dimmed. I
hear this a lot with men and women where they
feel like they're losing themselves. Someone's dimming their light. Someone's
like they have to like dumb it down for the
(08:17):
other person or downplay it.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
What is that?
Speaker 4 (08:20):
That's part of a feeling that you should know. A
good relationship elevates you, even if they're not more impressive
than you. They become sort of the wind beneath your wings.
Pretty Much every like superstar person has the behind the
scenes person who allows them to be the superstar person,
right Like not every famous athlete, politician has another famous
(08:41):
person with them who's out there killing it in a
big way. Right, So if you're Ruth Vader Ginsburg, your
husband is not a Supreme Court justice. He's probably just
a regular lawyer or something like that. So I think
we just have to recognize that you're right. If that
relationship is draining, it's not additive. There's no point to
the relationship. It's dead weight.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yes, even if you really love the person and they
make you feel good sometimes and you entertain. But if
you feel drained and you feel like there's a rub
and the drain, that's okay.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
It's the fundamental that's right.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
And that also a thing you can't see on paper
or something you could only experience because a lot of
people and a lot of people audition. Well, you could
have a few good mess and then the mask comes
off and you're like, oh, this is the real you,
not the first few months. This is the real you.
And so a big part of my work is encouraging
women to listen to their own feelings.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
So let's talk about sex and not when you should
have it and the boring things we've all heard about before,
but like how much it means when it's working, when
it's not working, can you work on certain things? You're
a little conservative, the other person is a little kinky.
It's weird to talk about bed sex, but you can't
because you can't talk about when you're in bed. But
then one person may not know exactly what they're doing.
(09:55):
But can that be corrected? Everyone doesn't walk like there's
a man breck that I know that says people, well,
don't come with batteries included, Like, so, where do you
stand on all of these sexual dynamics?
Speaker 4 (10:06):
Yeah, And everybody has their own and this is about
dating and relationships. Everybody has their own rule book that
they carry in their head that they think this is
the way everybody supposed to do things the way I
like it. Everybody has that rule book. I think women
even have even more of a rule book than men
about what men are supposed to do. Where men are like, well,
she seems pretty and nice and all to see where
this thing goes? So I think it's it's it becomes
(10:30):
really challenging, especially if you're lacking a spark. So I
would never tell anybody to be in a relationship without
a spark. We mark that as like a six out
of ten in chemistry, it's like a made up number.
But if if you don't have to talk yourself into
a date, in other words, you don't have to talk yourself.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
It doesn't have to be a ten at it doesn't.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
Have to be a ten because a six could grow
to a nine with great sex, right, But you can't
take up two and turn it into anything. And a
lot of women try to yes, because hey, I was
told them too picky. I'm told they should give this
guy a shot. Nope, you don't don't have to talk
yourself in ever. Sexual incompatibility is a thing that could
be worked on to a point, which makes it almost
(11:07):
like any other compatibility, right, like introversion and extraversion. How
we spend money, how we parent the kids, like.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Even cadence, how much?
Speaker 1 (11:17):
How how what time after dinner you're drinking? You're not
Men can't perform necessarily the same favorite like with all
that stuff, And so when when is that discussed over
the car ride?
Speaker 3 (11:29):
It's not discussed in bed.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
So no, it's it's one of those things where most
of the stuff we're talking about now again I think
it's really interesting and important, it's none of it's really
first date to come out.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
No no, no, no no. But you you only coach
for like first dates or once they're in it.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
No, no, I coach women say through relationships. I start
from zero to relationships. So it's a soup to nuts
type concier service. But when someone's dating someone and they're
unsure about the quality of their sex life, that becomes
just another metric that is potentially negotiable, that could become
a deal breaker if they can't get it together and
(12:08):
find a compromise. Point. There's an old Annie hall Woody
Allen and Diane Keaton are having it out. They're talking
to their respective therapists and he's like, I feel like
we never have sex. It's like only like three times
a week. And she's like, this guy wants sex all
the time. It's three times a week, right, So as
long as both people could live it's a Van diagram.
(12:30):
As long as both people could live with the compromise,
it could work.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
But so that's to your point the beginning. You're dating, now,
how do you deal with sex? You're off to the races,
you're attracted to each other, but the sex is a
little clunky, Like, how are you talking about sex with
someone you just start dating.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Let's talk about that.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
I think it's always in a positive affirming way, right.
I love when you do this. I really like our connection.
You know what would really make me happy? You know
what really really turns me on? I love it when
you How could I and reverse it? If you're dissatisfied?
You say is there anything I could do to please
you better? So it puts the focus on him and
(13:09):
he might say, yeah, no, I really actually liked a
little bit of oral before it gets started. So you
flip it on him, and then he's going to turn
around and ask you the same question. Well, I'm so
glad you asked. In fact, here's something I really liked.
It might not be something you normally do, but maybe
next time we could experiment with that.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
I think people have their comfort zones, and if someone
is again for your term, very you know, very kinky
or very vanilla, that could be a deal breaker that
you don't see until you've actually gone a couple of
rounds as a couple where they just there's no way
unless you're advertising this, you couldn't have figured it out.
(13:49):
But as I said, that makes sense. No different from
money communication there's all sorts of things that you can't
really navigate until you're a couple.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
I think things that are like not gimmicks, but like
sort of not like games, like the love languages or
it's not it's not a gimmick, but things that can
be defined, like if you're talking to someone. I once
had a conversation with someone about like what's most important
to them?
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Meaning for me, it's safety.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
For you, it might be being wanted for someone else,
that might be being loved someone else.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
It's physical touch.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
It's kind of a cousin to love language is like
what is the thing you know?
Speaker 3 (14:24):
And I think that stuff once someone hears.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
It, you can like you really it is like a
it's like a prescription. And what the most what are
you finding that most women are wanting in that way?
Not not meaning like presents and meals, I mean like
from as a fundamental said, and what are you finding
men want, women want to feel safe?
Speaker 4 (14:44):
No, I love this. You can literally go to my
website right now. I'm not telling everybody that they should.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
They should.
Speaker 4 (14:49):
Women are looking for a relationship in general, they'll say
I want a no argument, tall, dark hands and successful, rich,
charismatic funny, what do they need? Safe her and understood?
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Okay, safe, Because if you're.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
Not safe, heard and understood, you're always going to feel
like your relationship is lacking. It's always going to feel
like it's on shaky ground, no matter how great the
sexual connection, the intellectual stimulation. Think about relationships you've had,
especially if you're anxious attachment style. You've chosen men for
whatever reason who didn't make you feel safeer for it
and understood, and turned out you weren't safeer it and
(15:25):
understood in those relationships.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
And what are the men looking for?
Speaker 4 (15:28):
Accepted, appreciated, and admired, and it's something they don't get anywhere.
You heard me. I said the number one thing that
I was lacking, and it took me three hundred dates
to realize it was I went out with really bright women.
I went out with really sexy women. I went out
with really cultured women who can teach me things. I'm
turned on by all those things. I could not find
(15:48):
one person who didn't try to change.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Me accept it.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
So the fact that I had I've had one person
who just accepted me as I was and saw me
as the best version of myself, wouldn't you like to
be seen as the best version of yourself by your partner.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Well that's funny because when I was on stage with
Alex Cooper and she as, I said, someone, you're not
dumbing it down. I said, you need someone needs to
accept you for exactly who you are. I literally just
said that someone accept you.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
I know. So I said, I think I think you
might be a salon.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
I don't know about that, but okay, so then that
that's good. Those are two different things for women and
for men, So that's something that's a good.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
But there is an overlap. Right, So we could say
women need to feel safe and understood and then need
to be accepted, appreciated, admired, But that turns sex into
this sort of false binary because wanted. Yeah, women might
need safety more than men need safety, and men might
need appreciation more. Right, But any little thing a guy
(16:45):
does we talk about go back to love languages. Guys
you know, uh are not gonna might not say I
love you as much. I'm a words guy, but other guys,
he shows you he loves you by taking out the
heavy grocery bag and by picking up your kids from
school on his way home from work and it's a
lot of the actions rather than the words. If you're
a woman who needs the words, you'll often struggle with
(17:06):
his expression of love.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Right because you also have to always look at where
someone comes from, what's their background. Will I had a
conversation with someone where I said to them, you are
a breeder dog. I am a rescue I came from
a completely different environment than you came from. And so
the same thing that would not even phase you would
make me want to bite you or me run back
into the cage, like a score or squirrel that runs
(17:27):
up the tree. We are different creatures. And like, I
don't think even though people might know that, I think
that stuff needs to be laid out because it's a
different concept. Like if you're really thinking about somebody who
just has had parents have been together for fifty years
and like has only seen positivity, and you have another
person who's seen like complete abuse and drugs and like
sexual assault, it's going to be different.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
Have you seen this, I mean it seems sort of timely.
Have you seen this Netflix show? Nobody wants this yet? No,
it's Adam Brodie, Kristen Bell, He's a and then she rabbi.
She's a little bit of a hot mess who does
a podcast about her love life. And you know, this
guy is doing like everything right and that not to
give anything away, the sort of tipping point in the
(18:12):
story is she keeps on finding reasons to push him away.
He's so nice, he's so functional, he's so dorky. How
do we get rid of this guy who's done nothing
but be consistent? And he just holds her and says, hey,
I can handle you, right. Interesting, that's the moment, and
again I thought it was it was a very good
modern look at dating. I get I get no points
(18:33):
for for I'm just I'm just I'm sharing because it's
a it's a cute, cute, bingeable sittime about this.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
So what are you finding that men and women respectively
are doing wrong in dying? The biggest things that are
so common and so easy to correct. You know, I've
heard the girls say that the men really want the
women to make an effort, and they seem like they care,
they took time for the day, and often that also
that like alcohol is a problem. They don't eat there,
they get drunk, they share too much. Like, what are
(19:16):
you finding?
Speaker 4 (19:17):
I think the biggest problem that men and women have
in dating is it has almost little to do with
men and women, and it has everything to do with where
we are as a society right now. It's dating apps,
it's swiping, it's texting, it's the infinite number of choices,
it's the deep personalization of things. It's the lack of
solving problems like this by conversation by phone. Everybody's over subscribed,
(19:41):
too much noise out there, there's always something else pinging
on your phone, and so I just think we're at
a point in society where everybody and then everybody gets
burnt out. So men are burnt down on this, women
are burnt down on this. Everybody hates this, and they
keep doing it the same way. So to me, the solution,
and again the gift I want to give to your
readers before we go, is how do we say, in
(20:02):
this moment, how do we push back against the excesses
of this and turned dating into something that's a lot
more fun and personal and something that probably resembles the
way maybe you and I, if we're similar ages dated
back before it was all phone based dating. Okay, how
do we make better connections with people instead of treating
(20:23):
everybody as disposable on an app, and I think that
there's something to that.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
I think it's customized shopping where you get to get
exactly what you want, and it's fishing and you only
have to find one. So it can be a little
like you get full and you're at the buffet. But
I think, yes, there's a lot of wasting time and
doing what you're saying. But I think going out, going
to the restaurant, going to the bar, looking around, talking
to someone who might be married, I think that was
(20:47):
for fucking time consuming too.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Like it. I think it's more efficient.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
I didn't say get away from the area.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
I know you didn't say it.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
I'm just saying I think buy and large in the aggregate,
it's not that different. I don't I'm pushing back on
you this time.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
What's different. Here's the big difference, and we will close
and continue. The big difference is I go to a bar,
I see you across the bar. I find you're attractive.
After I do my lap. Got to do the lap? Yeah, right,
I get the courage to come up to you, right,
make a little small talk. Hey, step outside, grab a drink,
get your number. I got that was my that's my night.
(21:23):
I got your number. I'm excited about that. That's my
singular focus. I can come home from a bad day
at work, put my feet up on the table, turn
on the TV, eat some crappy dinner, and get fifty
phone numbers. So the volume, the competition makes it such
that normal people who might have connections have way too
(21:44):
many options to focus.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
Well, that's absolutely true. Okay, So that's absolutely true. Yeah,
I get it. I get it.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
So the apps are great for creating opportunity where we
would not meet people. Yes, Hinge just reduced the number
of conversations you could have to ten. Not a step
in the right direction. They're trying to just say, hey,
let's have a little focus here, let's treat people more
like humans. Yeah, use the technology to meet people outside
of your world. Yes, And how do we make a
(22:10):
better connection before we go on a blind date with
the stranger? How do we just humanize this a little
bit by slowing down. That's to me, it's old school
values for modern day dating.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
Okay, I like it. Okay, So what's the solution and
what's the gift to the listeners?
Speaker 4 (22:26):
I'm so glad you asked. I just created it, and
I just created because I knew I was going to
be on today. So it's a it's a mini course,
right basically seven videos, seven like six minute videos. You
could breeze through one a day.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
It's called Raise your Relationship Standards seven Steps to finding
a quality commitment, orient and man.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Love it. I'm excited.
Speaker 4 (22:47):
I made it specifically for you. So if you go
to Vanmarkatz dot com forward slash just be it takes
you that page.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Amazing, amazing conversation, really really good and different.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
So I'm excited.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
Yeah you were, you were amazing.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Thank you. I appreciate it. It's a good topic. It's
a great women want to know, men want to know.
I like it. I think it's dynamics.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
So next time we'll talk about more of like the
brass hacks are just like walking into a bar and
things like that. But I think this stuff is the
stuff people have a harder time with than like go
to a steakhouse and meet men.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (23:17):
I agree entirely.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Okay, great, awesome, have a great day.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
Thanks for having me.
We have Evan Mark Katz, a dating coach, dating advisor,
dating expert to help you find the love of your life.
And he also has a gift for you guys at
the end, so you can get some of his information
very easily solution based dating information.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Evan welcometh any, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
So Loreel has this whole tag like I'm worth it.
And the thing is, I have said that to someone
like you could say if you're the CEO and they're
in terns applying, you could be like, listen, you're going
to be very successful here and you're going to get
You're gonna get out exactly what you put in, and
I'm worth it, Like this is the job you should
take if you want it, but you need to be
(00:54):
able to meet me halfway. I have found that men
they're looking for that job, but they also would get
take the internship too, Like that's what That's kind of
what I was saying about the steak and the chicken.
That's exactly what I meaning. I've met guys that like,
in their mind they've written the list they want to
meet the woman, they know what they want, but they're
used to their habits so in the moment they're going
(01:16):
to take they're going to go for the intern job.
But partly you're like, no, no, no, your intention you said
your intention was this, And then both people have to
check in and like do the work. And you got
to find the person that wants to do the work.
Like both people have to even use language like that.
I think, like, do you want.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
To do the work?
Speaker 4 (01:33):
I because you've dazzled me with your knowledge today, I
want to I want to respectfully push back on you. Okay,
we always talk so much, and again it's it's it's
part of the cultural zeitgeist. Relationships take work. You got
to do the work. I come from a different place
because I've had relationships that required a lot of work.
They all ended they required so much work, they were
(01:55):
so draining. I want to work almost from a different
paradigm and say, good relationships are fundamentally easy.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Right, but they take some effort because you.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
Dynamic keyword, you nail that you're so good at this,
they take effort, Like watering the garden takes effort, right.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Right, It's not obligation, it's desire, but it's an effort
because yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
But everybody's been in a relationship that was one.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
No, totally, totally facts another and.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
They try so hard because they don't want to admit
this isn't working. That they work and work and work
and spend decades working on their relationship where I'm like,
I'm I gotta be sure. If fifty percent of your
time you're fighting, there has to be an easier relationship.
Let's find a relationship where like ninety ninety five percent
of the time smooth sailing. And then we just got
to iron out the differences. And that's just human beings connecting.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Yes, because I said, I said the other day, if
you don't know yes, it's no. I really believe that
if you don't know yes, it's no, you can't be like,
I'm not sure, I think, but that's where the work
comes in.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
I kind of agree with you.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
I believe something differently because I didn't know with my wife,
and just the fact that I exist means that there
has to be some counter argument to oh my god,
you just know every time I just knew she dumped me.
When you're making the biggest decision of your life, it
would be normal to have questions like literally I got engaged,
were using my father the ring my father gave to
my mother in nineteen sixty eight. I said, Mom, bring
(03:18):
the ring out to pass over. We're going to go
to my sister's place in San Francisco. I might propose
this weekend. I don't know. But I was thirty four,
she was thirty seven. We both wanted kids. We were
on an accelerated timeline. I didn't know she was indispensable
to me. I didn't figure out she was indispensable to
me until after we were married. I took an educated
(03:40):
guest and a leap of faith. That turned out to
be the best decision I ever made.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
But I would specially if you have if you have
a bad track record in love, it's really hard to
know anything when nothing's ever worked out before. I agree
with that too, But I'm not saying just no feeling,
just no feeling is great, like I'm all for it.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
I just don't think everybody learns well.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
I know, but I have to put the difference on
that because for me, also with the way that I
was raised and the the na seeing good role models
for relationships, I guess there's always some leap of faith.
You don't, you can't, you're not You're not a soothsayer.
But I would need to know yes to do it.
I would need to know yes to do.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
It, what I knew about my wife, what my wife
knew about me. To individualize this, you can't make this
for everybody. Is it was easy? That was huge. We
really didn't fight, right. We naturally shared the same values. Right.
We come from middle class backgrounds.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
We make fundamental the fundamentals.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
The unsexy stuff, character, kindness, consistency, communication, commitment check check check.
So on paper, is she the most impressive person I've
ever dated?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
No?
Speaker 4 (04:51):
The last guy she did it before me was six seven.
I can't compete with that on five ' nine. The
truth he was in some grad school to be computer
scientists or something. I'm just a guy who talks about
women before a living. So the idea that you're dating
the person who's the best in every category, No, you're
dating the person who when you're with them, you can
(05:12):
let down your guard, you can be yourself. You can
take a twelve hour car ride without a radio and
not get bored, and you can make a hundred little
decisions together without wanting to kill each other. And that
doesn't show up in a bumble profile. And that doesn't
show up on a first date. And that's the hard part.
We need to give it enough time to breathe, to
go through a few seasons together to see, oh wow,
(05:32):
it's still going really smoothly. This is confusing.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
You're one hundred percent right, one hundred percent right.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
So we get engaged at the peak of the roller
coaster and then we discover it's a mistake. It's really
a smoother ride. And I'm sure you've had your experiences.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
No, I completely agree with you. It's a compatibility aspect,
the energy match, and you're right. Is it just it
should feel in that way? It should feel easy. What
about comparisons? What about people coming in and wanting to
take the oli carte menu even they were with the
last relationship and yes, the guy was a little crazy,
but he was exciting and he bought me presents, or
he wanted to go on vacations or he did that.
(06:09):
Like what about the comparing that people do where they
want to kind of take something from that and if
this person who does make them feel good but doesn't
have that one thing, So how do you deal with
these women? Because women are nitpicky, women are pain pains
and the asses and women are constantly finding the ant
at the picnic. So what about these ants at the
picnics and these comparisons.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
I have the final thing in my signature course Love You,
is an exercise called the husband Picker. It's like, it's
like a fifteen minute exercise. I'm not going to go
through the whole thing with you, but it touches on
the exact same thing you're talking about. If I just said, hey,
most important thing you need to get character, kindness, consistency, communication, commitment,
because if you're missing one of them, you're screwed. Doesn't
(06:51):
matter how gorgeous or hot, or rich or smart he is.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
It's character, kindness.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Consistency, communication, commitment. Maybe add connection because I think that's
really important too, So we could call it the five
SE's the six seeds. One of them is a K.
We don't have to be too precise about it. But
the idea is these are the baseline things. And if
I ask you or most of your women listeners, what's
the reason that you didn't work out with Brad dan John,
(07:17):
it's going to be one of those six things. It's
not going to be I wish he was five eleven,
but he's really five to ten, right, it's not going
to be I wanted to make, you know, two hundred
and fifty thousand dollars, but he'd made one hundred.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
What was the last one? Commitment and then what character?
Speaker 4 (07:31):
Kindness, consistency, communication, commitment, and connection is probably a sixth
one because you could have the nicest guy in the world,
but if you don't feel a connection with him, it
doesn't really matter.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Where would you put Like the energy match that so
many people talk about and the dimming of the light,
like someone you're alive. They love the aliveness, they're attracted
to it, but like your light is being dimmed. I
hear this a lot with men and women where they
feel like they're losing themselves. Someone's dimming their light. Someone's
like they have to like dumb it down for the
(08:17):
other person or downplay it.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
What is that?
Speaker 4 (08:20):
That's part of a feeling that you should know. A
good relationship elevates you, even if they're not more impressive
than you. They become sort of the wind beneath your wings.
Pretty Much every like superstar person has the behind the
scenes person who allows them to be the superstar person,
right Like not every famous athlete, politician has another famous
(08:41):
person with them who's out there killing it in a
big way. Right, So if you're Ruth Vader Ginsburg, your
husband is not a Supreme Court justice. He's probably just
a regular lawyer or something like that. So I think
we just have to recognize that you're right. If that
relationship is draining, it's not additive. There's no point to
the relationship. It's dead weight.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yes, even if you really love the person and they
make you feel good sometimes and you entertain. But if
you feel drained and you feel like there's a rub
and the drain, that's okay.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
It's the fundamental that's right.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
And that also a thing you can't see on paper
or something you could only experience because a lot of
people and a lot of people audition. Well, you could
have a few good mess and then the mask comes
off and you're like, oh, this is the real you,
not the first few months. This is the real you.
And so a big part of my work is encouraging
women to listen to their own feelings.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
So let's talk about sex and not when you should
have it and the boring things we've all heard about before,
but like how much it means when it's working, when
it's not working, can you work on certain things? You're
a little conservative, the other person is a little kinky.
It's weird to talk about bed sex, but you can't
because you can't talk about when you're in bed. But
then one person may not know exactly what they're doing.
(09:55):
But can that be corrected? Everyone doesn't walk like there's
a man breck that I know that says people, well,
don't come with batteries included, Like, so, where do you
stand on all of these sexual dynamics?
Speaker 4 (10:06):
Yeah, And everybody has their own and this is about
dating and relationships. Everybody has their own rule book that
they carry in their head that they think this is
the way everybody supposed to do things the way I
like it. Everybody has that rule book. I think women
even have even more of a rule book than men
about what men are supposed to do. Where men are like, well,
she seems pretty and nice and all to see where
this thing goes? So I think it's it's it becomes
(10:30):
really challenging, especially if you're lacking a spark. So I
would never tell anybody to be in a relationship without
a spark. We mark that as like a six out
of ten in chemistry, it's like a made up number.
But if if you don't have to talk yourself into
a date, in other words, you don't have to talk yourself.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
It doesn't have to be a ten at it doesn't.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
Have to be a ten because a six could grow
to a nine with great sex, right, But you can't
take up two and turn it into anything. And a
lot of women try to yes, because hey, I was
told them too picky. I'm told they should give this
guy a shot. Nope, you don't don't have to talk
yourself in ever. Sexual incompatibility is a thing that could
be worked on to a point, which makes it almost
(11:07):
like any other compatibility, right, like introversion and extraversion. How
we spend money, how we parent the kids, like.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Even cadence, how much?
Speaker 1 (11:17):
How how what time after dinner you're drinking? You're not
Men can't perform necessarily the same favorite like with all
that stuff, And so when when is that discussed over
the car ride?
Speaker 3 (11:29):
It's not discussed in bed.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
So no, it's it's one of those things where most
of the stuff we're talking about now again I think
it's really interesting and important, it's none of it's really
first date to come out.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
No no, no, no no. But you you only coach
for like first dates or once they're in it.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
No, no, I coach women say through relationships. I start
from zero to relationships. So it's a soup to nuts
type concier service. But when someone's dating someone and they're
unsure about the quality of their sex life, that becomes
just another metric that is potentially negotiable, that could become
a deal breaker if they can't get it together and
(12:08):
find a compromise. Point. There's an old Annie hall Woody
Allen and Diane Keaton are having it out. They're talking
to their respective therapists and he's like, I feel like
we never have sex. It's like only like three times
a week. And she's like, this guy wants sex all
the time. It's three times a week, right, So as
long as both people could live it's a Van diagram.
(12:30):
As long as both people could live with the compromise,
it could work.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
But so that's to your point the beginning. You're dating, now,
how do you deal with sex? You're off to the races,
you're attracted to each other, but the sex is a
little clunky, Like, how are you talking about sex with
someone you just start dating.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Let's talk about that.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
I think it's always in a positive affirming way, right.
I love when you do this. I really like our connection.
You know what would really make me happy? You know
what really really turns me on? I love it when
you How could I and reverse it? If you're dissatisfied?
You say is there anything I could do to please
you better? So it puts the focus on him and
(13:09):
he might say, yeah, no, I really actually liked a
little bit of oral before it gets started. So you
flip it on him, and then he's going to turn
around and ask you the same question. Well, I'm so
glad you asked. In fact, here's something I really liked.
It might not be something you normally do, but maybe
next time we could experiment with that.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
I think people have their comfort zones, and if someone
is again for your term, very you know, very kinky
or very vanilla, that could be a deal breaker that
you don't see until you've actually gone a couple of
rounds as a couple where they just there's no way
unless you're advertising this, you couldn't have figured it out.
(13:49):
But as I said, that makes sense. No different from
money communication there's all sorts of things that you can't
really navigate until you're a couple.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
I think things that are like not gimmicks, but like
sort of not like games, like the love languages or
it's not it's not a gimmick, but things that can
be defined, like if you're talking to someone. I once
had a conversation with someone about like what's most important
to them?
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Meaning for me, it's safety.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
For you, it might be being wanted for someone else,
that might be being loved someone else.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
It's physical touch.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
It's kind of a cousin to love language is like
what is the thing you know?
Speaker 3 (14:24):
And I think that stuff once someone hears.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
It, you can like you really it is like a
it's like a prescription. And what the most what are
you finding that most women are wanting in that way?
Not not meaning like presents and meals, I mean like
from as a fundamental said, and what are you finding
men want, women want to feel safe?
Speaker 4 (14:44):
No, I love this. You can literally go to my
website right now. I'm not telling everybody that they should.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
They should.
Speaker 4 (14:49):
Women are looking for a relationship in general, they'll say
I want a no argument, tall, dark hands and successful, rich,
charismatic funny, what do they need? Safe her and understood?
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Okay, safe, Because if you're.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
Not safe, heard and understood, you're always going to feel
like your relationship is lacking. It's always going to feel
like it's on shaky ground, no matter how great the
sexual connection, the intellectual stimulation. Think about relationships you've had,
especially if you're anxious attachment style. You've chosen men for
whatever reason who didn't make you feel safeer for it
and understood, and turned out you weren't safeer it and
(15:25):
understood in those relationships.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
And what are the men looking for?
Speaker 4 (15:28):
Accepted, appreciated, and admired, and it's something they don't get anywhere.
You heard me. I said the number one thing that
I was lacking, and it took me three hundred dates
to realize it was I went out with really bright women.
I went out with really sexy women. I went out
with really cultured women who can teach me things. I'm
turned on by all those things. I could not find
(15:48):
one person who didn't try to change.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Me accept it.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
So the fact that I had I've had one person
who just accepted me as I was and saw me
as the best version of myself, wouldn't you like to
be seen as the best version of yourself by your partner.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Well that's funny because when I was on stage with
Alex Cooper and she as, I said, someone, you're not
dumbing it down. I said, you need someone needs to
accept you for exactly who you are. I literally just
said that someone accept you.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
I know. So I said, I think I think you
might be a salon.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
I don't know about that, but okay, so then that
that's good. Those are two different things for women and
for men, So that's something that's a good.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
But there is an overlap. Right, So we could say
women need to feel safe and understood and then need
to be accepted, appreciated, admired, But that turns sex into
this sort of false binary because wanted. Yeah, women might
need safety more than men need safety, and men might
need appreciation more. Right, But any little thing a guy
(16:45):
does we talk about go back to love languages. Guys
you know, uh are not gonna might not say I
love you as much. I'm a words guy, but other guys,
he shows you he loves you by taking out the
heavy grocery bag and by picking up your kids from
school on his way home from work and it's a
lot of the actions rather than the words. If you're
a woman who needs the words, you'll often struggle with
(17:06):
his expression of love.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Right because you also have to always look at where
someone comes from, what's their background. Will I had a
conversation with someone where I said to them, you are
a breeder dog. I am a rescue I came from
a completely different environment than you came from. And so
the same thing that would not even phase you would
make me want to bite you or me run back
into the cage, like a score or squirrel that runs
(17:27):
up the tree. We are different creatures. And like, I
don't think even though people might know that, I think
that stuff needs to be laid out because it's a
different concept. Like if you're really thinking about somebody who
just has had parents have been together for fifty years
and like has only seen positivity, and you have another
person who's seen like complete abuse and drugs and like
sexual assault, it's going to be different.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
Have you seen this, I mean it seems sort of timely.
Have you seen this Netflix show? Nobody wants this yet? No,
it's Adam Brodie, Kristen Bell, He's a and then she rabbi.
She's a little bit of a hot mess who does
a podcast about her love life. And you know, this
guy is doing like everything right and that not to
give anything away, the sort of tipping point in the
(18:12):
story is she keeps on finding reasons to push him away.
He's so nice, he's so functional, he's so dorky. How
do we get rid of this guy who's done nothing
but be consistent? And he just holds her and says, hey,
I can handle you, right. Interesting, that's the moment, and
again I thought it was it was a very good
modern look at dating. I get I get no points
(18:33):
for for I'm just I'm just I'm sharing because it's
a it's a cute, cute, bingeable sittime about this.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
So what are you finding that men and women respectively
are doing wrong in dying? The biggest things that are
so common and so easy to correct. You know, I've
heard the girls say that the men really want the
women to make an effort, and they seem like they care,
they took time for the day, and often that also
that like alcohol is a problem. They don't eat there,
they get drunk, they share too much. Like, what are
(19:16):
you finding?
Speaker 4 (19:17):
I think the biggest problem that men and women have
in dating is it has almost little to do with
men and women, and it has everything to do with where
we are as a society right now. It's dating apps,
it's swiping, it's texting, it's the infinite number of choices,
it's the deep personalization of things. It's the lack of
solving problems like this by conversation by phone. Everybody's over subscribed,
(19:41):
too much noise out there, there's always something else pinging
on your phone, and so I just think we're at
a point in society where everybody and then everybody gets
burnt out. So men are burnt down on this, women
are burnt down on this. Everybody hates this, and they
keep doing it the same way. So to me, the solution,
and again the gift I want to give to your
readers before we go, is how do we say, in
(20:02):
this moment, how do we push back against the excesses
of this and turned dating into something that's a lot
more fun and personal and something that probably resembles the
way maybe you and I, if we're similar ages dated
back before it was all phone based dating. Okay, how
do we make better connections with people instead of treating
(20:23):
everybody as disposable on an app, and I think that
there's something to that.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
I think it's customized shopping where you get to get
exactly what you want, and it's fishing and you only
have to find one. So it can be a little
like you get full and you're at the buffet. But
I think, yes, there's a lot of wasting time and
doing what you're saying. But I think going out, going
to the restaurant, going to the bar, looking around, talking
to someone who might be married, I think that was
(20:47):
for fucking time consuming too.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Like it. I think it's more efficient.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
I didn't say get away from the area.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
I know you didn't say it.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
I'm just saying I think buy and large in the aggregate,
it's not that different. I don't I'm pushing back on
you this time.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
What's different. Here's the big difference, and we will close
and continue. The big difference is I go to a bar,
I see you across the bar. I find you're attractive.
After I do my lap. Got to do the lap? Yeah, right,
I get the courage to come up to you, right,
make a little small talk. Hey, step outside, grab a drink,
get your number. I got that was my that's my night.
(21:23):
I got your number. I'm excited about that. That's my
singular focus. I can come home from a bad day
at work, put my feet up on the table, turn
on the TV, eat some crappy dinner, and get fifty
phone numbers. So the volume, the competition makes it such
that normal people who might have connections have way too
(21:44):
many options to focus.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
Well, that's absolutely true. Okay, So that's absolutely true. Yeah,
I get it. I get it.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
So the apps are great for creating opportunity where we
would not meet people. Yes, Hinge just reduced the number
of conversations you could have to ten. Not a step
in the right direction. They're trying to just say, hey,
let's have a little focus here, let's treat people more
like humans. Yeah, use the technology to meet people outside
of your world. Yes, And how do we make a
(22:10):
better connection before we go on a blind date with
the stranger? How do we just humanize this a little
bit by slowing down. That's to me, it's old school
values for modern day dating.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
Okay, I like it. Okay, So what's the solution and
what's the gift to the listeners?
Speaker 4 (22:26):
I'm so glad you asked. I just created it, and
I just created because I knew I was going to
be on today. So it's a it's a mini course,
right basically seven videos, seven like six minute videos. You
could breeze through one a day.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
It's called Raise your Relationship Standards seven Steps to finding
a quality commitment, orient and man.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Love it. I'm excited.
Speaker 4 (22:47):
I made it specifically for you. So if you go
to Vanmarkatz dot com forward slash just be it takes
you that page.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Amazing, amazing conversation, really really good and different.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
So I'm excited.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
Yeah you were, you were amazing.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Thank you. I appreciate it. It's a good topic. It's
a great women want to know, men want to know.
I like it. I think it's dynamics.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
So next time we'll talk about more of like the
brass hacks are just like walking into a bar and
things like that. But I think this stuff is the
stuff people have a harder time with than like go
to a steakhouse and meet men.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (23:17):
I agree entirely.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Okay, great, awesome, have a great day.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
Thanks for having me.
Host
Bethenny Frankel
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!