“Mention it All” with Leanne Morgan

RHOBH - S9, E10 “BLACK OUT AND GET OUT”

As Leanne and Bethenny dig into this episode something suddenly comes rushing back that Bethenny either forgot about…or blocked out altogether! Find out what the iconic moment was and what it caused in the aftermath! 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
We are heading back to New York, and it's not
all fun and games. In this episode, the ultimate fight
goes down between myself and none other than Ramona, not
the first time and probably not the last time on
our off camera, and I'm not afraid to mention it all
a line that I never even knew that I had
said until I watched it. Pretty much with everybody else.

(00:26):
Stand up comedian Leanne Morgan joins me to recap this
wild and crazy episode. This is Real Housewives of New
York Season nine, Episode ten, Blackout and get Out. Have
you ever seen the show before?

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Oh, lor Yeah, I used to watch all of them,
and yeah, I've been through. I've lived everything you've ever
been through, much Darling. Also, I want to tell you
that I was with race Weatherspoond yesterday. I'm shooting a
movie with her. Oh wow, And she saying, and Will
Ferrell And she said, I told her I was doing

(01:07):
this today, and she said, Bethany Frankel is the normal
Ray of business deals. And we were sitting around with
a bunch of producers and wonderful actors and all that
we were rehearsing, and she said, she's the normal Ray.
I mean remember guys, because they were wanting thirty percent
of her deals or something with Ronvo and she said, no,

(01:28):
I'm gonna walk away. She said she's the normal ray.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
And I thought, I've got to tell Bethany. Yes, I
mean you know, Reese is a bad Mamma Jama.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
Absolutely, and thank you for telling me that.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
Wow, it was a wonderful compliment.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
Wow, it's beyond I think it's an understandment. All right,
So let's get into this smart stupidity. So you watched
the episode which was probably some escapism, and I literally
I was in it, but I only saw it once,
so it's like watching it for me too, And it's
weird when I watch, I'm like watching these other people.
Does that make any sense? Like it doesn't even Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
I'm bad, honey, And I felt the whole time. I thought,
I wish I could she could sit in my life
and I could rock her me.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Do you do you an why I left?

Speaker 2 (02:17):
He is a lot. It was a lot.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
But isn't it all so? Like it's so funny because
so many smart people watch the show, smart successful people
watch the show and like to watch it because I don't.
And it's escapism. But I don't think they realize that
those are real women that are engaging in that, like
it's these characters, because a lot of actresses, you know,
becausey Tigan's a fan and you hear like Catherine Paul's

(02:44):
and a lot of people are fans of these shows,
and I think that they're like watching it like it's
a scripted show characters, but these are real people. And
so when you're sitting there, do you ever think because
I think, like I was broke when I started, so
I know why I did it, but I wonder why
the hell would anyone do this? Like you have these

(03:04):
things that go on from fraud and infidelity and stealing
and lying, and you know that it wouldn't be happening
if it wasn't exacerbated on television, like these conflicts, the
woman who went to jail, like Teresa who had that
situation going on with her with tax evasion, Like why
would people subject themselves to this fame and money? Right?

Speaker 2 (03:28):
I guess so, and I guess with all why it
comes problems because I send and think about Kim zosiac
in Kroey little Krowey playing for the Atlanta Falcons, and
then that ends you know, but then you got to
keep that facade up against of like money and all
that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
But she had the facade going in with all the
bracelets and big Papa, and I think that part of her,
and you know, he wasn't like a player making fifteen
million dollars a year. I think they had to kind of.
I think what happens with a lot of Bravo people
is they think they're gonna get on the show, and
the show is going to make them so much money,
and they're gonna come up with Skinny Girl and sell
it for all this money and that will keep them going.

(04:09):
And I remember p K saying to me out to
dinner at Chipriani dorit did the show because of you.
I want for her what happened with you. So then
they're spending all this money. She's dripping in Chanelle and
Fendi and Gucci and the ABC d efgs of letter logos,
And you're spending all that money because you think it's

(04:30):
going to come back, and it does, but it's a
circular reference, like you're just spending because you think that
that's going to be relevant and people are gonna give
you the attention, and you're gonna get you know, it's
fool's gold in a way.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
I think so too. And see, I'm watched from the beginning,
and I started watching y'all all of y'all years ago,
and I think, I look, I'm fifty seven now, and
my children are grown, I've got a grand baby and
another one do any minute. And I think it was
a wonderful time for me to have y'all because my

(05:02):
children were going off to college and leaving and it
and it threw me for a loaf. And I, as
we say in the South, I took to the band
and I would watch y'all and it was escapism for me.
But I remember, I look back on the episodes and
like Atlanta and everybody, you know, people didn't have good hair,
and people's houses, you know, it looked like somebody was

(05:24):
in an apartment that didn't have like Vanderpump rules, which
that's the whole other thing. I mean, we could go
into that, but that's not the same thing as the housewives.
But everybody was trying to you know, you could tell
a year after year trying to keep up and had
to get hair and makeup and do all that. And
everybody started looking better but I was watching this episode
that we're on here to talk about, and I thought,

(05:47):
I just now that this has happened for me. And
I've been a comedian for over twenty ten years, but
it's just taken off from me in twenty nineteen, and
I just think about being so exhausted and you were
talking to your assistant and you you were on the
bay and going, you know, basically, they're killing me. And
then so I understand my end, and I also understand

(06:07):
how all those women started hate knowing you because you
were you wrote you, You pumped out of that whole thing.
Out of all those people who were you know, dynamic
and beautiful and all that, you were the star and
then you started You got the dal with skinny girl
and old man and now I look at Ramona bug

(06:31):
God yelling at you on.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
Out and it's never about it, it's about and it
was very Here's the thing, though, I'll say this is
interesting because I have not told this. Louren Michaels was
not talking about me, but he once I had dinner
with him, and he said, you have He was talking
about one of the people on Saturday Air Live and
he said, you have to make an exit to make
an entrance. So I left, and I've always gone with
my gut. I left the Housewives after three seasons. Now,

(06:55):
if you think some of these girls have been off
for fourteen seasons a long time, three seas, this is
nothing like. So I left after three seasons of a
show when I was popping off and I was successful,
and I left because I didn't want to be there.
I felt that I had my reasons, I had my gut.
I felt that I was having a child and it
just wasn't where I wanted to be. And I now
realized the courage and that decision because I walked away

(07:17):
from something that went off on to be very successful,
and I walked away and I left for three seasons,
and whether it's luck or skill or whatever divine intervention,
the show went from I think it was three million
viewers when I left, and it went down to one
point six and they really wanted me back. And now
the other girls were getting just incremental raises, small, little nothing,

(07:38):
few percentage raises. And I left and Andy Cohen, I
wanted to pitch him another show. I was never going
back to Housewise. I thought it was disgusting and toxic
and I was wanted to pitch another show. I forgot
what it was, and he said, well, I have something
to pitch you. And he came over and he pitched me,
and I said, I said, I'm going to give you

(07:58):
a number, and I'm not going to negotiate with you.
I'm gonna give you a number and you're gonna come
back and you're gonna give it to me or you're not.
And that's how I'll go back. Now, at that point,
I had leverage. There were other times you don't have leverage,
like seasons later when they've got big shows and you know,
Jersey and Beverly Hills and in Atlanta. That's not when

(08:18):
you're going for your number. But New York was not
doing well with the Carol Kristen and Heather Era, and
I gave him the number. Gave him the number. And
also I had a boyfriend who wouldn't be on camera.
I had a child who wouldn't be on camera, and
a brutal divorce, and I named all my terms. I
made sure you do that when you're doing a contract,

(08:38):
you don't think of it later because they forget. It's
like this is the dating phase. Now. They wanted to
sleep with me. Once we start sleeping together, they'll be
sick of me. So when we were in the dating
phase and I asked for that massive number, it was
the highest house or if paid in history at the time,
and even now it would be a lot. These women
don't get paid that because I was incrementally raising each
year too. So I started off with such a big number.

(09:00):
When I came back and it was millions, it came
to be millions. And when I made that deal, I
carved everything out. I will not work when I have
my daughter. I will not do this. I will do this.
I would go to trips and it'd be the last
one there. I'd go a day late and I'd come
home a day early, but I would give my soul.

(09:20):
I would be there. And that was like those Miami
episodes would what about tom I would be torched. I
would torch the joint, pick up every crumb, make sure
I blew it up, even to the point where Lisa
Shan and the producer didn't use a whole day after
I left. She's like, that stuff is unusable. You have
to please come. And they'd begging me to come early,
and I'd be like, don't worry. I'll light it up
when I'm there, and I always brought it and I

(09:42):
always delivered. So that was me coming back on my
terms and always like making these decisions playing chess, not
just checkers, even in that stupid situation, never sharing everything
I was doing with everybody else, never thinking that we
were all kombah yah an ensemble cast. It was cutthroat,
and everybody was jealous of everybody, and everybody on Beverly

(10:03):
Hills is jealous of everybody else. You can hold hands
and pretend your friends because you fucking got to you're
on the war zone field, but they it's bullshit and
you don't find out what's real until everybody's off the show.
That's when you see what really goes on.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
Oh my gosh, Ben name, When I think about seeing
I feel like when you're talking about all that conflict
and blowing up and you got to blow up and everybody.
And first, let me say this, you're very funny, and
I know people have told you that, but not only
do you know I guess how to go in and
blow up, but Miami Trim, but you're very witty and

(10:39):
very funny, and as a comedian who's very jaded. We
get jaded. We're around a bunch of funny people, and
then everybody tries to be funny. And yes, you know
you can use it in your act and all that
kind of stuff. I've got to give it to you.
You've always tickled me, and you've always had Even watching
this episode, I thought she is so funny, just like you,
just and and I can't compete, but anyway, and I

(11:03):
think Dorinda. I thought Derinda, she and Sonya is funny
in her.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
You know, wacky great, yeah, yes, right, but.

Speaker 2 (11:12):
You are very, very funny.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
And that's the highest compliment. That's literally the highest compliment
to me because I've always wanted to be a stand
up comedian. I did it one night at New York
Comedy Club. Secretly, everyone's phones were taken away. I have
the recording, and I actually was I was actually like
on a one to ten of like you know, I
don't know Sebastian Mona Skalko or Jerry Seinfeld being a ten.
Let's say, on a one to ten, I was a

(11:35):
good like six point seventy five like I was. I
was a seven. I was okay like I but I
didn't get fed what people get fed from it. It
didn't I didn't get the bug. I wanted to know
that I could do it in the same way that
I would love to know that I could like land
a look at the met Galon that Anna Wintour would
think like landed it, not like Rihanna crazy, but that

(11:57):
like I could get up there, not fall I have
the right hair, make up, land to look like. I
would just want to know that I could do it,
not to go there, not to be there. I don't
want to live, you know. But I couldn't do what
you do on the road like that. I couldn't do that.
I can dip it and dip out, but I couldn't
do the g Maybe I could. I did it for years,
but that's a different grind. Yeah, grind really But.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
You I understand you didn't get the bug and you
and you had to have that bug to want to
do this because it's crazy and you did put your
heart out and you don't know what people are going
to do it and again your.

Speaker 1 (12:26):
Head with the other comedian. I would think, I don't
mind my relationship with the audience. I don't care about that.
I would think getting fucked up with the other comedians
and also what's weird to me is that comedians do
and act. And I've gone with that guy, that French
guy who's find out, Jerry Seinfeld. I was with him
one night and I saw him go upstairs to the comedy
seller or downstairs to the comedy cell upstairs stairs next

(12:47):
door this but and it's the same act. And to
me that I know, that's the art of the beast.
That feels fraudulent to me. I would be so self
conscious in front of people that saw me say the
same thing three times in a row. And I'll see
Amy Schumer on a talk show saying the same joke
that she said up on the stage, and it's awkward
to me. I like everything to be completely fresh.

Speaker 2 (13:08):
And I was listening to your podcast with Tory Spelling
and loved it. And also Margaret Choe.

Speaker 1 (13:15):
Oh, Margaret Choe is very smart. I had a lot
against a lot. I don't know that much about her.
I've knowed she's finding She was an excellent guest. So
all right, so let's get And that was my fiancee, Paul,
who loves comedy too. He was like, you should have
comedians on and I love this idea. It's been great.
There was one guy, Jay Farrow, never seen it, but
he put his heart into like analyzing it, and I

(13:37):
loved having him on. It was really and I love listen.
I've always had been enamored with comedians, so I always
used to go to the comedy clubs when John Stewart
was starting out and Alan Havy and like, I just
have always had a relationship with that world. And I
have a respect from that world that I find is
like the highest respect. When I went to do comedy

(13:58):
I call, I texted Ellen and Chris Rock and Kathy
Griffin and Bridget Ever and everyone texting me by Kevin
Neil and had a twenty minute conversation. The point I'm
making is I have a simpatico with comedians and I
love it so and I'm proud of that that I
have like a good respect from them. So that makes
me happy. Okay, let's get into the show. So we're

(14:20):
in the Berkshires and now I remember that scene, and
I remember sitting at a restaurant with Ramona and her
like people come in with the smoking guns. She's gonna
come in and say to me all these things and
ask me if it's been hard for my daughter. That

(14:41):
was the previous episode that like, I you know, it
was top us in a waterbed in a movie thirty
years ago, like some teen cheeseball movie when I was
like on a roof. They asked if we would go
sunbathing and if I would take our top off, and like,
Ramona is bringing us up and it's such a bad

(15:01):
like you gotta land of these things. My daughter at
the time was six years old, so it was like
she wanted to find this was her big inn to
say something to me like, was my daughter? Are they
asking my daughter? Are kids talking about my daughter to
my daughter? About my antics? Like so I said something
like yeah, Diane Sawyer showed up at the schoolyard to

(15:22):
so this is the aftermath of that. So now Ramona
we're in the Berkshires and I just like, you know,
I just can't stand her and I just don't She
took two dresses from my talk show. She's a disaster.
It's good television and it's good sparring, but like she's
coming in and she's got this whole monologue about my
life that she's obviously rehearsed, and the mistake that people

(15:46):
make in life and in these shows, is taking the
bait like taking it seriously and talking to her about
it is if I actually give a shit instead of
you know, humor and mention it all fine, mention it all,
like all these things in the moment. It seemed such
a big deal to me that she was saying these
things because there's a camera there and it's on national television.
What's everyone going to think? But like a comedian, living

(16:10):
in the moment, being true to the moment is just
how I handled it, just how I responded.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
M And I thought, I just thought, oh no, Ramona, no, no, no, Ramona,
And she looked unhinged, and I thought, but it all
came back to you went to a private school, you
had a car. It all, you know, I guess was

(16:35):
her being an insecure about where she came from and
that you have been this, you've become this huge success
that she wanted to be and then Mario left her.

Speaker 1 (16:44):
It's funny because yeah, well she always wanted to talk
about a lot of people live in the past and
live in their story, so she always wanted to be like,
I made a million dollars by thirty, Okay, all right,
I invented the skinny Margarita. Great, well, now what who
cares young? You know, TikTokers don't fucking know that they're
ordering it everywhere they go. They don't know I invented it.

(17:06):
It's twenty twenty three. So she like because of being
in that fast pace. I think she wanted to be
the business person and it always bothered her, and she
wants like some sort of extra credit points or like
to be graded on a curve when a lot of
people are stuck in their story and talking about like
what they didn't get, and you got to be in
the present, like, you know, if you're talking about what

(17:27):
everyone else is doing and thinking about your story, you're
not at the top of your game moving forward quickly.
You're not playing chess, right, And she you know. And
that's the thing about the show too, though, that really
always you have to always know someone's always winning and
someone's always losing, and the person who can land the
takedown is winning. Because if she landed that scene, depending

(17:50):
upon how I reacted. And I don't think this is
just about reality television. This is about women in life.
If someone really gets to you and you take the
bait and you go lower than they do, then you're
the one who's gone the lowest, like no one remembers
the person who started the thing. It's how you handle
yourself in business in these situations, and I feel that
that's a massive, massive part of this chessboard. How you

(18:13):
handle it. How do you, as a comedian handled yourself
when you're fucking bombing? Are you true to the moment?
Are you gonna start saying, oh my god, I didn't
mean that. Hey, g I gus start like, you know,
how do you handle when you're bombing?

Speaker 2 (18:25):
Yeah? You go, Well, you have to know in your heart,
And I know in my mind after all these years,
I know this is funny. I know this kills every
night and I'm doing what I do and I'm not.

Speaker 1 (18:39):
Going it's not funny that night, or your tone is off,
or your mood is off, or their mood is off,
or just like, it's what is going on?

Speaker 2 (18:47):
It's what is going on? Yes, and I've had I'm
just something happened in the last year where it was
I was so excited about it. It was very famous people
in New York, and I thought I'm gonna kill I mean,
I was already on a hundred city tour a Big
Panty Tour. I'd sold the Netflix special and I'd been

(19:07):
doing this material every night, and I thought, oh my gosh,
there are middle aged women. They're gonna love me. They're
going through the same thing I'm going through it. And
I did this show and there were there were probably
about twenty people there and half of them. I didn't
bomb completely, but it was not good and that and
I could just you know, I was getting some laughs,

(19:29):
but it wasn't like I thought it was gonna be anyway.
The people that were just like normal everyday people were laughing.
The very very wealthy did not, and I and I
was crushed over it, but I and I kept going.
And then in the in the hotel room, I went
over in my head, comedians were we're an odd bunch

(19:52):
and if and if somebody, if there's one person doing
this with their arms folded in a that's all we
And I've heard Jerry Seinfeld say that it will kill
him and he will go over in his mind. I
do that too. And then I talk to a good
friend of mine who deals with a lot of wealthy
women in Nashville, and he said, Lene, I mean, think
about it. These women did not raise their own children.

(20:16):
These women have house managers. These women don't we're talking
about yeah, and then I mean and it made me
feel better because I thought I've gotten over it and
I would have been fine because I'm you know, I've
been doing this a long time and I'm professional, but
at the but it does it hurts you and you
but I thought, Okay, they don't. They don't understand what

(20:36):
I'm talking about. I did talk about every day kind
of you know, mom stuff, menopause. Oh, I'm a grandmother.
A lot of people don't want to even know their grandparents.
They don't know.

Speaker 1 (20:48):
Yah yah, yeah. Well the thing is you can't please everybody,
you know, So Ramona and it's about her and she's
at a different age. And you know, I have developed
a nostalgia for the show that when I wasn't in it,
I wonder if I was ever there now, how I
would handle things. Definitely be interesting to say. We won't
see it, but you know, she says, so, she says,

(21:10):
are you kidding me? Are you kidding? I counted she
said it, You're kidding me four to five times. And
I think Ramona is a great reality character because she
always brings the drama, but she doesn't kill the party,
and she's absolutely nuts. So and I remember she's saying
like she's annoyed that I dated wealthy men. And she's annoyed.

(21:32):
She said, but by the way, the one thing that
no one has ever accused me of is getting anywhere
by anything but hard work. I work harder than anyone
around me, anyone on my on my team, anyone I
I that's like such a good confident thing that I
can have that I work so hard always. I can't.

(21:54):
It's just who I am. It's what I know. So
it's a great feeling when no one could ever take
that away from work luck, you know. And I'm sure
you could say the same. Working like a dog on
the road.

Speaker 2 (22:07):
Yeah, working like a don't you know you can? I know,
I'm sure you can outwork. It's no killing Bethony Lord.

Speaker 1 (22:14):
So so she says, So here's the behind the scenes
of these shows. So I'm going to room alone with her,
And this is what happened years ago with Kelly, with
the I'm up here, you're down here, you know, the
cats scene. So now I'm gonna room alone with Ramona
and you're drinking alcohol at the house and like you've
got camera guys and they're you know, they're the changing
of the guard. They're not going to say anything, and

(22:35):
the producers aren't going to say anything because every producer
tells every uh character, they did great, it went well.
They nod, You're perfect, you did everything right. Good for you,
they nod. And the person's like, it wasn't that bad,
was it?

Speaker 2 (22:46):
No?

Speaker 1 (22:46):
No, it wasn't bad at all. Like right, and you
never know where you are. You have vertigo at all
times because your mind is playing tricks on you, so
you don't walk out. When I walked out of the
Kelly thing, I have a I'm very self aware, so
I thought I was kind of tire, and I walked out,
and the producer said to me, quote unquote, in the car,
your publicist would be very proud right now. So I
thought I had done something, but who knows what the

(23:08):
hell they told her? And I thought, but you second
guessed yourself, and you just don't know what's coming out
of the oven. The edit could be different than you thought.
So in this situation, I didn't even see the humor
in it. I was probably panicked inside by the things
she was saying, and it felt like she had come
and attacked me. And I remember calling Andy Cohen, and
I remember calling everyone and not getting the reaction that
I wanted from them, like not them saying, oh my god,

(23:31):
there's never been a trashing like this in the Housewives history,
oh my god. And they give you no like Andy,
No one gave me any cards like it was like
they acted like it was just like a normal scene.
Because to them, they're watching that hundreds of these scenes
and it's all blending and they don't care because there
are no stakes for them. So I remember, And then
you have to wait for this fucking thing to go
in the oven be baked, and then you watch it

(23:52):
so degrading, You watch it four days before everybody else,
so you have no new knowledge. You don't know how
this thing came out. And when I it, I you know,
things get taken out or added it down, and it
seemed bad, but it seemed way worse than the moment
because I was You're just so paranoid about what everyone's
going to see and what she said about me, And

(24:13):
then everybody finds this mention at all, thing that they
think is hilarious that I didn't even think it's just me.
I had no idea that was funny. You know, you
don't know what this cake is coming out. I had
no idea that there was a funny moment in there.
Mentioned all. I remember saying, mention it all you're just
surviving m hm.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
Oh, and you were quick on your feet. And I
thought the whole time, I thought, hew in the world
has she said in this? Because I started thinking about
and this is And I may not have everything right
because it's been a while that years ago when you
and Jail fell out, but I remember the pain. I
had a breakup with a girlfriend like that, and I

(24:52):
remember Jill being heard over you and you heard and
then Bobby and all that. All that's going on while Ramona,
I mean, I don't even know. I'm not probably being loasted.
I just I just think, how did you go through
that benthony with the baby, with the ex husband. I
just look at all that what was happening. And I

(25:13):
know now I'm getting personal and I don't maintain, but
I just watched it and I thought, how did that
little thing make it through that? Well?

Speaker 1 (25:22):
You had you, but it was way better. Well it
was way better than because it was so real and
there was no hair and makeup, and you didn't even
know what show you were on because it was called
Manhattan Moms till they changed it, and you were just
doing something new in a new genre. You didn't walk
in with God with the wind dresses of Goldline May
and the Reunion. You wore some shitty dress in your closet,
and it was so authentic. You didn't have glam squads,

(25:44):
you didn't have glam for the interviews. You wore some
shitty cardigan and did in your own house, so there
was an authenticity to it. I was also I had
eight thousand dollars to my name walking into the first
season where I got paid two hundred and fifty dollars,
like it was a gig. It was a job. You know,
you weren't even really famous yet, like people didn't really
It was very niche, and we were creating this genre

(26:05):
that would go on for decades, and creating, you know,
making a millionaire out of Andy Cohen, who started off
as an executive, and you know, it just was a
whole different thing. And my skinny girl thing shook the
core of the whole thing. It shook the core. But
I knew that that was going to happen. I had
this sort of plan and it's been an interesting ride.
And in that scene with Ramona and also she had

(26:25):
previously on the Brooklyn Bridge decimated me in my life
and said, terrible thing. She's got a mean streak and
she has to like take you down because taking you
down brings her up. And she's always had it for me.
She and Luanne in particular, have always had it for me.
And Jill was just playing the zero sum game. She
was feeling herself. She was drinking her fame, she was

(26:46):
drinking the kool aid. And during the summer, something happened
in an article and I, you know, I was trying
to not tell her every single thing I was doing
because I got a co host gig on a talk
show and she called them up and said I'm better
than her, and like she was competing a little bit
quietly competing, but also my friend, And this is what's

(27:07):
happening to these women. And the reason I know that
is that I've spoken to people from Beverly Hills and
they're like, oh, they invited me to go to this country,
and no one else got that, and they wanted only me,
like everybody's competing, it's women in a fucking pitbull cage.
So with Jill, we came back and she thought she
had a smoking gun, so she thought she was going
to say to me, you didn't call Bobby when he

(27:27):
had cancer in the beginning of a scene of a season,
and that she was going to take me down because
it's a zero sum game and someone's got to get
killed and someone's got to be winning. I'm just pretty
fucking fast. And as Andy saw on that crazy reunion,
when everyone was hating me, when Carol was after me,
when Derinda was after me, when Mamona was after me,

(27:48):
when Luam would have been my only ally, but I
made them let her stay home because she had had
her whole crazy intervention, and I took them on by myself,
like a sniper. I just sat there and won at
a time, I took him on, and you better get
up really early in the morning to try to take
my ass down. These women never had a shot, but

(28:08):
they kept trying, and I give them credit. So Ramona, sorry,
I'm talking so much. I never talked as much. I'm
just gonna I'm just remembering things. So Ramona came in
to take me down and afterwards, when I was calling everybody,
I thought a tree fell, but no one heard it,
Like did that just happen? Because you could be the
one that took the other, but you could be the
one that I could have attacked her. I don't you
don't remember? You blacked out? You black out? So I

(28:40):
like now watching Ramona recant the story to everyone that
was my favorite that I attacked her.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
Oh my lord, okay, And I I can't hel help
Anthony because I'm feel sorry for Ramona because I think,
God love, she had no chance once so ever, and
it just sounded so penniful. Is she okay? Nihil? Is
she okay? Does anybody know? I just looked through this

(29:10):
whole episode and I just thought she was unhinged, bug
one unhinged. Could not even I mean, it didn't even
make sensese what she was saying.

Speaker 1 (29:23):
Is she okay? There's no bar for Ramona because all
the things that she said have made the bar so
low for what she might do or say or miss
that it's a great place to be in because you
people laugh at it. It's like your uncle that, like
you know, says the most off colored joke at a
lunch or a family party or the crazy aunt, like

(29:43):
there's not much she can't get away with because she
has not painted herself into the perfect corner. You know,
it's kind of great for her, like Luamne was a
darling and the the couges and it's appropriate, but Ramona
never said, well, she always acts like she's perfect. But
it just she just started off with such craziness the
very beginning that it doesn't matter what she does till now.
So and she's a great television character. And when I

(30:08):
left the series this last time, she said the show
will be better and trashed me and now calls me
to be on this pocket like but it doesn't matter.
It's like it's just noise. She asked me for advice
all the time, forgetting all the bad things she said
about me. It's it's just Ramona. So she's got revisionist history,
telling everyone that you know, I attacked her. And but
what I find interesting is to watch the show through

(30:29):
the lens of someone who's done it, and you can
watch Ramona spinning out on camera, like you know that
she's trying to tell other people that I attacked her,
but in her mind she's trying to also like apologize
and like, I don't know, I did have a lot
to drink. Like she's talking out of both sides of
her mouth. She knows she fucked up, she knows she
went too far. She's not entirely sure what she said,
but she's trying to convince herself and everyone else. And

(30:50):
it's like, hmm not everyone's buying it.

Speaker 2 (30:53):
No, but they didn't buy it. And they were like, oh,
shadd Romona, you really stepped in at this time. Yeah,
nobody agreed what Yeah, it was by d And like
she couldn't pull back from it.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
She couldn't pull back from it. And another funny thing
is when I like someone but they're not the best housewife,
so you're it happened with you know, Kristen is a
lovely person and she just wasn't the best housewife. You know,
she's a lovely person, and Jules was sweet. Same thing.
Sometimes it's like if you're a good starting player, sometimes

(31:30):
you really just want to get the not the street whatever,
the next level, the next string of players kind of
out of your way because you want to play tennis with,
like Federer. So like even if I don't love even
if I don't love Ramona for example, Like she's a
good she's a good tennis player, you know, so you
want your first you want your like good tennis players,

(31:52):
like you want your starting lineup, like you know, the
Sonya is even even you know, Ramona never been Land's
always like one notch down. She's always hiding something. But
the mistakes that she makes make her a starting player.
But so I bring all this up because Tinsley is
not really a starting player. But I really like her

(32:14):
and she's so nice, but sometimes you kind of just
want to get that like fluffy cotton candy out of
the way so you can like get to the meet,
you know, you know what I mean, Like.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
Yeah, it's like when you play sports in Hosco, if
you play up, you know, you play better if you
play somebody that she played worse.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
Right, right, So it's hard because I like Tinsley a lot.
I think she was, you know, a nice person to
have around and she was decent. But sometimes she'd be like,
well let's talk about that later, and it's not the cameras,
like right, like I don't want to be here either.
She just not all the time. She just she doesn't
want to you know, she wants to do the Michelle

(32:53):
Obama program, which is great because she's not a big
gossip and she doesn't want to go low and she's lovely.
I really like Tinsley, but like, she was not built
for this. And sometimes you just don't want to be
like talking to Kristin or Tinseley about something in a
scene because you really want to get like you want
the meat off the bone. You're not really interested in
like the little side dishes the fat. So that's just

(33:14):
I just mentioned that because I liked Tinsley a lot.
I always liked her, so whatever that means.

Speaker 2 (33:19):
But that scene at the art gallery when you when
Ramona comes up to who does she come up to
to hug Leuyne or somebody, and you go, I'm leaving
and you walk off, and I thought, oh lord, because
when somebody has done that to me in my life,
or I don't, I mean, I hadn't followed anybody like Ramona,

(33:41):
but when when somebody just goes, you know what, I'm
not doing this and walks off. I could tell that
when Ramona was like, oh no, you know, you just
weren't playing in that, and I thought that was smart.
I thought, oh.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
Yes, she's I have the art of dismissal and that
she doesn't like that. You know art of dismissal. And
you know Ramona treats staff a certain way and doesn't
treat other people's belongings with respect, which is how she
stole two dresses of minor a talk show and the
way that she treated Dorinda's house. She was drunk.

Speaker 2 (34:18):
What does she do what I couldn't remember? Did she
riped something out of the wall?

Speaker 1 (34:23):
So it's breaking the fourth wall, but you have to
because what happened was she went up to her room
and you'll have these bright lights like I have them
here in the podcast, these bright lights that are like
rigged and taped and Durinda probably is very old painting
that how she hadn't redone it yet and I'm sure she.
I think she got reimbursed, which is great because she
got either insurance or they paid her. It's great, like
to try, there's no money someone could pay to be

(34:45):
in my house and trash my house. Like I couldn't
handle what Durnda indoors. But because with her house being
a location sometimes and when Deinda, Ramona got to her
room and was wasted and wanted to go to bed.
She didn't think to go downstairs and tell somebody, can
you take the lights? And it's not like it's a
light switch, you gotta unplug it and find the plug.
So instead she wanted to go to bed, and she
just ripped everything off the wall. So it's stuff taped

(35:07):
to the wall. So she just ripped all the lights
down so they just get off. It'd be like, you know,
just like ripping chords out. And so she trashed and
which is totally believable, as much as it was believable
that every person who was ever on my talk show
knows she stole the dresses. It happened. Yeah, I didn't
have to. It just happened. And I think and Sonya,
you know what, that's the thing about getting drunk. Sonya
wore during his husband's pajamas and it's like funny but

(35:30):
almost Yeah, it's funny, but it's like not that funny.
And that's what happens when you're drinking and you know,
in a show and something's gonna happen. And then there
was some fake scenes in the episode, which there always are,
like the made for TV producer scenes, Carol showing Tinsley
the apartment down the hall. Tinsley was never going to move.
Tinsley was never moving to New York because she didn't

(35:51):
want to live in New York. She was staying in
a hotel because of the show. She was staying at
Sonya's because of the show. And that's like one of
those fake scenes. And I know they need the filler
scenes and they suck, but I never did those scenes.
I don't do fake filler bullshit scenes. Like she's not
moving in there. It's a co op building anyway, Like
it's just not happening.

Speaker 2 (36:08):
I'm wondered. And when she said I can't get near
my this is not where I get my blow woe out.
So I'm not doing maas wow. But I love her
and I think she's beautiful. Okay, little Carol, Little Carol
with that man. Is she's still with me? I should
have googled thes Is she still with that young girl?

Speaker 1 (36:27):
They're still friends, but they're not together. Sometimes maybe there
are benefits. I don't know that, That's what I hear.

Speaker 2 (36:34):
Well, and he makes salad, you know, for he.

Speaker 1 (36:37):
Makes salad for her? Yeah, yeah, she she She spends
a lot of time talking about me and a lot
of time talking about the show, and it's a long
time ago for something that she really doesn't like, she
also spends a lot of time talking about it. Okay,
so now I'm with my assistance and you mentioned that
I was a little ripped. I think time is so

(36:59):
important how we spend it. And you get pulled in
different directions and you say yes, and everything sounds good
on a calendar, but then you really have to execute
it and it's it's not the same. But I was
obviously more focused on the moths. I had a moth.
Have you ever had a moth investigation?

Speaker 2 (37:12):
Yeah? And I say, and I looked at your moths
and I thought, are those the moths that get in
my pantry? It was it the tiny malls that get
in your paintrey and get in your flower.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
Those are different. It's funny that you say that, because
I've done a lot of research on mobs and Paul
just had a moth infestation in Boston and it's it's maddening.
It's not maddening. It's maddening. And their babies and they
lay larva which look like these little strings on your sweaters,
and it's not maddening because you get holes in your sweater.
That is maddening and you then don't realize till a
year later, like all your cushy stuff. But moths love

(37:44):
the best stuff. They have good taste, they love. They're
like Erica Jane. They want expensive. It's expensive to be me.
They want to lay in like the soft, cuddly, cushiest
stuff you have. So and thank God in Boston, I
have just my lounge around stuff with Paul. I don't
have like my really good Lori piano cashme. I would
be institutionalized, so all the moths and Paul was like,

(38:06):
we can go shopping and I wasn't gonna like. I
was like, who cares, It's just crap shit anyway. So
that's not the worst process. The worst process is that
you have to take every single garment out of your
house have it dry cleaned. I did it with Madame
paul Lett, and you have to have them come in
and fully exterminate and like your clothes have to be
taken out and put back, and it's thousands of dollars.

(38:28):
I don't know. You know, that's one of the things
you think if you're poor, like you're getting mothballs. It's
not gonna it's not gonna do it. I mean, you
may not have Laura piano cashmer if you're poor. I
get it, But to wash every single garment, it's like lice,
but ten times worse. You have to wash every garment
and every it's a fucking nightmare. So I was panicked
when I saw those moths must have been like babies.

(38:51):
You know, it was a night My.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
Sister had that in her closet and it calls her
a thousands and she's got beautiful playing. So my sister does.
My sister married a very well today my later in life,
and I'm married young and we struggled, and so I
didn't have I don't have moths trying to eat my
I mean I could have some a few things, but
not like you and my sister. I had the kind
that went in the pantry where you have to throw

(39:13):
everything you've ever owned out that you in your pantry,
and then had somebody come in and do all that.
But it doesn't cost thousands like my sister. She went
through that. It was horrible. I thought, oh no.

Speaker 1 (39:27):
So you active, do be proactive and have the little
cedar balls in your drawers and be proactive and clean
your clothes and like, look out and get it before
it gets you. It's a nightmare. So that was my
moth issue, which was not a small affair, and we
just did it again. But thank god it was in
Boston because Paul, well.

Speaker 2 (39:45):
And you were tired and we're going through a lot,
you know, and that makes it even worse. You just
sit on the bed and I thought, oh, I know
how she failed. And you were on TV every day.
I thought, if somebody was coming in and doing I'm exhausted.
But if somebody if I had to have everything in
my house right or you know, going in to do

(40:05):
and then I had to fight Ramona. I just don't
know how in the world you did it. It makes
me feel like I'm a mother and I'm a grandmother.
I just felt like I needed to hold you. But
you're a tump little boger. But you're a tump little boger,
Yeah you are.

Speaker 1 (40:20):
I'm tough.

Speaker 2 (40:31):
Now.

Speaker 1 (40:31):
I think about the scene with Tom and the whole
group with Jill, and I liked the Jill admitted that
she missed it all. Like it mean she's saying that
she misses the show and she's saying she misses the drama.
And I think, but I always thought this because I
was the one who called it out in the beginning
when it wasn't popular. The worst is being on a
reality show and calling things out and you look like
the hater and you're calling out Tom because it just

(40:53):
isn't tracking. And Luanne's trying to just like rinse it
with fairy dust. Everything Lewenne does. She has found Tom
and like everything is perfect. There's no problems with Tom.
Everything's great. Like these housewives want to make their person
perfect on the show because they're trying to sell something
to the other women. So the women don't like, uncover

(41:14):
the bag of skeletons and sell it to the audience.
And he just seemed like he wasn't looking anyone in
the face in the eye, and he seemed cagey and
like he just didn't seem trustworthy. He did not look
like a trustworthy person.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
Oh. I knew that from the minute. I thought, oh
my lord, what he's low Wayne doing. And I thought, well,
I guess she's been wounded by that little man that
his people dug the canal. But when she was in
the car going to her wedding, and he said, I
get she said we shouldn't be together the night for
our wedding. Somebody's saying and he's saying, Oh, I get

(41:51):
a haul pants, I'm going out that night. Oh he
is so gross by. And then low Wayne's sitting up
there with Turquois own. I know she's from Native people,
but I thought, what do you day? When Lee wangan you? Not?
What are you day? When I mean everybody knew Tom
dang doll.

Speaker 1 (42:09):
Well, she wanted to like check the box, and so
she wanted to make him like it's a Tom Dear
Gastino and we're in the penthouse, which it was just
an apartment on the top floor that was like not
any great shakes. And she's always like in Palm Beach,
but it's not Palm Beach. It's over the bridge. So
Tinsey has to call around on that. Everything's just like
sort of half a story. So she's trying to really

(42:30):
sell him to everyone, and no one's buying it. In
nineteen housewives have slept with him and it's just not
a great story. And and Ramona dated Tom and some
other friend and Ramona's other friends forgot her name, like

(42:53):
Hillary or Monica or some other one of their other friends.
There's there are three people that were on the adjacent
to the show that have dated us up a Tom
and I had a friend who knew someone who had
dated Tom and who saw Tom making out with the woman.
He just is one of those guys.

Speaker 2 (43:09):
It seemed like it was a cute in person anyway.

Speaker 1 (43:12):
Okay, no, not cut person in my opinion, But that's
not even the big priority to me. And maybe he
got married to someone else and it ended up working great.
I don't know. Maybe the combination of the two of
them was kryptonite. I don't know. But she wanted to
drink him pretty and now she's single with her cabaret,

(43:32):
so you know, she's like she's an actress at heart.
But and it was funny that Jill said that she
was upset that I wasn't invited to the wedding. I
think there was no world where I don't remember it
even being a discussion. I can't. I don't know of
me being invited to the wedding, like I don't. I
just don't even think that that. I like that. I

(43:53):
like that that was not fake on the show, like
the Teresa has to invite every single person she's ever
met in the Bravos fear to the wedding. I don't
like Luanne Lewyne doesn't like me like I'm Manivit's the wedding, perfect, perfect, perfect.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
And do you think but I felt like Jill? You
know when you say, oh, I wish I could be
with her. I thought she was going to be at
the wedding. Well, I don't want to eat lunch with her,
but I want to be with her at the wedding.
Do you think Jill has grieved over you?

Speaker 1 (44:22):
I think she has, But Jill doesn't. Jill so smart
cookie that doesn't play the long game, so you might
as well be not smart. Jill always plays the immediate thing.
She wants the immediate thing, and even if it's her
most recently negotiating with brab and wanting to get her number,
and let's say they don't get her number and she
walks away, then she does a press tour about it,

(44:45):
versus sitting tight and playing the long game. When because
of her and everybody else, the negotiating for the most
recent Real Housewives legacy show didn't work, not only because
Jill wanted to be paid as much as everybody else,
and then negotiated herself out of it. But if everybody
else with the difference and came down a little in

(45:06):
their money because it is a new show and some
of them had been fired, they all would have met
somewhere in the middle. So Jill over negotiated and overplayed
her hand, and so did the more expensive crew, thinking
that they should be paid much more than her cast.
So did the expensive the expensive cast that they thought
they should be back to where they were on Housewives.
Instead of everyone meeting in the middle, they would have
had probably an eight to twelve episode show. So now

(45:29):
what Bravo did, which is the cheapest because it's going
to cost them like one hundred thousand a housewife for
a week's travel, and they're going to get multiple episodes
of it. It's much cheaper than Bravo hiring them for
a whole legacy show and having to pay pay each
of them a couple hundred thousand dollars. So Bravo did
something much cheaper, but they left Jill out of it

(45:49):
because of her press tour presumably and trashing everybody and
telling the story about what happened and why a legacy
didn't happen. So instead of Jill play her cards right,
she burned the bridge to get on that show that
she could have been on for six episodes on Peacock
and then she would have been on two shows because
they're doing like a legacy trip instead of doing a

(46:10):
legacy show. Does that make sense to you?

Speaker 2 (46:13):
Like, yeah, yeah, she.

Speaker 1 (46:14):
Goes on Andy Cohen's show after years when she left
the show and he had her on and she records
him on the show. That's like, so he found out
she was recording it to make sure that he didn't
edit her in a certain way. So that's not playing
the long game. She used to argue with Bravo over
the price of car services and try to finagle and
like then she would get a bad reputation. It's just

(46:35):
not she doesn't play the long game.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
M hm. Oh, I didn't realize by it, Yeah, you
gotta play the long game. Oh you would think that
Gill would be smart enough today by it?

Speaker 1 (46:50):
Yep, she can't help herself. So what did you think
about the art show? I thought, you know, it's Carol's
interesting neighbors, which she has a good relationship with her building,
and it's like a commune over there. They have co
parenting dogs, and you know, Adam's friends with having in
her building, and someone in her building painted her nude.

Speaker 2 (47:10):
M h I thought she what did you think it was, Bethany,
what did you think?

Speaker 1 (47:17):
I thought it was a great thing to get awareness
for the artists and fill a scene for the show.

Speaker 2 (47:23):
Mm hmm, yes, yeah, yeah, I mean I thought, I
mean little Carol. I mean, I guess she's I don't
want to say she's not interesting to me, but she
just never grabbed me. I think she's you know, tiny

(47:43):
in her pants and all of that. No, I don't
even know what to say, because yeah, I just did.
What I remember about it was Ramona coming up, you know,
blared eyed, looking crazy, and you said I'm going in.
I thought, oh, that's the way to do things, you know,

(48:04):
and not even entertain it. And I could feel Roman's
heart being out of her body through that.

Speaker 1 (48:11):
Well. She called me, She called me Cruella Deville, and
she called me like a Halloween character at Dorinda's house
at another scene where she looked like the Tales from
the Crypt. Because she's not able to use her words
in an articulate manner, so she's just to call me names.
But that scene is a good example of a scene
that's a vehicle for another scene. That's my point about
A players. And Carol's not an A player in the show.

(48:34):
She was a B player, so but her nudity scene
with the art was a good vehicle to have a
Derenda Bethany Ramona conflict recap. So it doesn't matter whether
we were a Burger king or you know, fucking Disneyland
Carol's boring art scene. You know, Carol had a lot

(48:55):
of those scenes like going to get the ashes, which
is you know, meaningful and I understand, but that was
a boring scene. So it's these scenes that are just
filler with these other players that you need because not
everybody can be the A player otherwise it's going to
be too much type A, you know. But you have

(49:16):
these like Jacqueline Marita is a great, great player on
a Jersey show to be nice and some filler and
her daughter and her husband was good, but some and
sometimes the player has people around them that are good
that all together they make up a housewife, like Dory
and p K make up one housewife. Alex and Simon
made up a housewife. Melissa and Joe made up one

(49:37):
housewife without the husband or the people around. These people,
they might not make up a whole housewife.

Speaker 2 (49:43):
Oh, Bethany, you know, I never thought of it that way,
but I've watched all these and that makes perfect sense. Yeah,
because Dary they up with that big Chanelle handman on.
I mean, but then p K and boy George, I
mean that might that might sense to me.

Speaker 1 (50:01):
Yeah, And her outfit is part of her character. She
needs that outfit so she can add to what she's
bringing to the table. You know, some of us, Sorinda
and I could walk in their nude. It doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter what we're wearing. And that's, as Margaret
Chow so eloquently put it, that's like a suit of armor.
And she's walking in with something that she's bringing to

(50:22):
the table besides her Like that's part of her persona
and part of her character. So that does a lot
of the work for her. The houses and the bags
and the logos and the abc DFG alphabet of Gucci Fendi,
do your Chanelle LV, all the letters they're a character

(50:43):
mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (50:44):
And the little brands, you know, and an odd hairdoo.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
Erica started it all everybody copied Erica, do recopied Erica,
Lisa copied Door Read and Erica Kyle came in with
the crazy hairstyles and the Australian designer dresses. They all
copied Erica. She brought fashion. She brought costumes to the housewives,
not fashion, because to me, fashion isn't wearing all logos

(51:09):
and wearing something that looks uncomfortable and like it's so forced. Otherwise,
if it was real fashion, I think these girls would
have been invited to the mech Galibi. Now it feels
like a costume and like just forced logos. But Erica
gets credit for it. She said, I'm on TV and
every moment will be a hair and makeup moment and
a costume. And I was against that in the beginning
when Kristen came in with costumes and two different shoes,

(51:32):
because I always thought, God, focus on the story and
your personality, don't focus so much on the shoes. Because
I never gave a shit about the clothes a little
a little and wanted to look better as people looked better.
But I would probably wither in Beverly Hills because I
wouldn't want to keep up with that shit. It's too competitive.
Like the dressing. I'll keep up with anybody with the banter,
but not the clothes.

Speaker 2 (51:52):
I don't care about that, right, Well, you don't, honey.
I would rather if somebody said you've got to pick one,
what do you want and say, I want to have
Bethany's band for if I if I had to go
in and find if I had to do all y'all
had to do, I would want to be quick witted
and sharp and funny. And I hope that. I hope

(52:14):
as you get older in this world, because I'm older
than you, I hope you can keep that win. I
feel like I used to have that kind of sharp
and now I feel like I'm just I'm getting in
a fog because of menopause. But I hope that you
keep that because that is what makes you Benthany, That's
what makes you and it and it's very entertaining. Wow,
And I just watching that episode, I look back, You're right.

(52:36):
There are people that just kind of fade into the background,
and then there are people who hold it, hold that scene.
And I just the whole time I thought, and and
you're tough. You are tough, and you've been through a
lot and you grew up going through a lot, but
I still wanted to. I thought if I could just
cook for her, and I know you'll want to cook,
but I thought if I could just go in and

(52:58):
do a load of wash for her. She's got so much.
Thank you, thank you Angel.

Speaker 1 (53:03):
Well, it was amazing to talk to you again, and
thank you so much for doing this and for watching,
and good luck with your tour and with Netflix and
with Ree Swederspoon, and you're it's amazing to have this
career at fifty seven years old. It's like you're popping
off now because you never gave up, and it's you
have no choice and it's amazing.

Speaker 2 (53:21):
Thank you, Darling, Thank you Angel, Thank you.

Speaker 1 (53:24):
You really prioritize that because we constantly are in our
head and thinking and running and I'm really focusing on
it myself. I'm trying really hard. So do it yourself too,
and tell me. I say say hello, and you made
my day.

Speaker 2 (53:35):
I'm will my darling, and I am I'm trying to
focus on longeviting. I want to live long and dot
quig yeah, and I'm really I'm really trying now to
take care of my sound so that i can have
the stamina the day this and I applaud you and
I'm going to tell all my friend, so everybody's been
watching you for years. Everybody's crazy about you, my darling.

Speaker 1 (53:54):
Thank you, thank you, have a great day.

Speaker 2 (53:55):
Thank you you too,