"We laughed, we cried, we sh*t” with Leslie Bibb

RHONY - S10, E17 “SHIP HAPPENS”

As Leslie and Bethenny tackle what they call an “incredible hour of television” you’ll find out why they’ve been dubbed the “Dr. Phil and Oprah of the Real Housewives!” Details on the disastrous trip (including insane amounts of TMI) and the dissection of a friendship. Was it real or only for cameras?!

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Which should have been a fun, relaxing trip on an island,
turned into an absolute chaotic shit show. Laughing, crying, puking, yes,
the sexiness of diarrhea, almost going overboard at sea. The
Ladies of Ronie did everything but have fun on this
cast trip. It was a literal shit show. Actress and
Roney fan Leslie Bibb, with a cameo from her life

(00:26):
partner Sam Rockwell, joins me to break down the episode.
This is Real Housewives of New York Season ten, Episode seventeen,
Ship Happens.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
Nice to meet you too. Congrats on your new movie
about my father.

Speaker 3 (00:49):
I appreciate it. Sorry, I'm a little distracted. Mark dog
is in the hospital.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
Well I'm really sorry.

Speaker 3 (00:56):
But you might see my partner come out of the
shower because he's got to go pick him up from that.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Oh it's okay, I look forward to that.

Speaker 3 (01:02):
Yeah he'pe.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
We clothed them said, oh wow, whatever, we get what
we get. We don't get upset.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
Okay, So are you first of all, congratulations of congratulations
on about my father?

Speaker 2 (01:16):
How is the response? How was the premiere? Like? How
is everything?

Speaker 3 (01:19):
The premiere was great? The response is we'll see you know,
this weekend will be a big deal. But to see
if people show up in the movies and it's like
and you're also going up against like Fast and Furious.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
Oh Jesus and that, and it's a weird time in
movies anyway.

Speaker 3 (01:37):
Yeah, And like, but when I was doing the junket,
and I've done enough movies to done enough junkets that
like when people genuinely genuinely come in, I'm like, I
really love this movie. Wow, Like there's something to it.
It's it's Sebastian wrote like a love story to his father.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
Which is it's very it's very you have good ingredients.
The people are all different, they're in the movie and
equally interesting and compelling to go. And then also his
act talks so much about his father, so you have
that cross promotion.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
And I mean he's hot right now.

Speaker 3 (02:14):
Yeah, so it could be. I mean, everybody loves the movie.
I'm really proud of it. Usually stuff I do, I'm not.
I'm like, I see like faults in this movie. I'm like,
I love it. And my boyfriend is like, he was like,
I was like, am I crazy? He's like, no, the
fucking movie is. It's amazing, And we took our friend
Mike and he's stood up with Dany. He's Italian. He's like,

(02:35):
we're bringing Italians back.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
Ah, that's funny.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
I was like, cute, but he also is an Italian
guy and he's like, that's what my dad used to do.
And a lot of people I think if their parents
have passed on or they haven't. It just feels like
this connective tis shoot. The tweeting are like Sammy, sam
Hi to Bethany.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
I'm doing well, how are you?

Speaker 1 (03:01):
If I were not afraid to get kid, she said,
you might be coming.

Speaker 2 (03:04):
Out of it. Oh, it's you. I know who you are.
Oh do you know who I am? By any chance?

Speaker 1 (03:09):
No, he's not the type of actor who would know
who I was. That makes me sad. It would be
a big surprise.

Speaker 3 (03:14):
I know your face we interviewed before. No, No, she's no,
well you look very familiar.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
Well, thank god at least says that, how are you.

Speaker 3 (03:22):
I'm okay, I'm doing good.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
If I were not afraid of cancelation, I would have said, well,
we're very disappointed that she came out in full clothing,
because you can't you set it up And he walked
out clothing it's not that fun. Yeah, she said, Oh,
I'm sorry because Sam might come out of the bathroom
right now, and I didn't even know that you were
like a famous Sam And yeah, yeah, sorry about your dog.
I'm really sorry, very nice to meet you.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
I'm going to pick them up.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
Okay, I love you. Bye. Okay, so are you.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
And by the way, that was really a fun little moment. Rockwell,
major actor like mad respect. I had no idea you're
in a really, because I don't come into any of
these things of preconceived notions or ideas. I read about people,
but I read less about you because we're talking about
these women. When you come on the other podcast, I
will have read everything about you.

Speaker 3 (04:09):
We've been together for it'll be sixteen years this year.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
Holy shit. I had no idea. So that's nice.

Speaker 1 (04:14):
You were probably you managed to have a private relationship
with another very successful person.

Speaker 3 (04:18):
So that's nobody. Well, we don't nobody get I mean, you.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
Don't go anywhere.

Speaker 3 (04:23):
Well, we're boring, like we're not like it's not well,
it's it's you know.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
You happen to be actors, but you're actually humans.

Speaker 3 (04:29):
Yeah, Pavillians really love each other and we work hard
at it and we've, like law, I mean, we've worked
hard at making it last for sixteen years.

Speaker 1 (04:49):
Oh okay, So do you watch the Housewives? Are you
a fan or you yes?

Speaker 2 (04:53):
Oh you are? Okay?

Speaker 1 (04:55):
So you watch all of them or you have favorites?
Like there's no wrong answer, I.

Speaker 3 (04:58):
Mean there's no rhyme or reason. And then I think
if something feels makes me feel icky, I'm like, I
can't watch it anymore and I have to like not
do it. But I was like a rony lover, and
I sort of started watching Housewive stuff because it started
under the guise of like sort of research, like reality
TV would like there's like stuff I would watch people

(05:19):
do and then I'd steal it and put it into
a character.

Speaker 2 (05:24):
Oh nice.

Speaker 3 (05:25):
And so because people are like it's fake, and I
was like, sometimes if it's a good show, it's not fake.
You'll have a moment where they forget that the camera's
there and they have an incredible reaction that is so
authentic and something that you couldn't even like something just happened.

(05:47):
I was watching like Summerhouse, and the girl was like
complaining about I don't really love that show, but I
was just watched There's Something, and this girl is complaining
about somebody got engaged and she didn't know, and she
was like going nuts', just like telling every her behavior
was kind of cuckoo. But then they didn't come home

(06:08):
and she got her feelings hurt and people in the
house were like, oh, forcket, we're going to go into
the room, and they grabbed a hat and she lost
her mind. It was like, I was like, oh this
you saw that you saw?

Speaker 2 (06:18):
I saw the shreak of like.

Speaker 3 (06:21):
And she became a girl who lost her two best friends.
And the behavior she went in like one false swoop
from like fought them to take the hat off. What
are you doing? It was just such this incredible reaction
that you couldn't even craft it. You couldn't know it
as an actor that I'm like, there's a morsel somewhere

(06:43):
in a film or in television. I will pocket that
little piece of behavior and try.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
To love it.

Speaker 1 (06:51):
I've never, my Godtress has ever said that before. That's
very all right. So so let's so this is a
show that I was on, and when I watch.

Speaker 3 (06:58):
I know that's why I said, she happens, bitch. I
already made fucking I made a note okay, but like
literally look at my notes.

Speaker 2 (07:06):
Well all right, well I've got my notebook and it
says yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (07:09):
So so I'm in this episode, and to describe to
the audience at home, I watch rewatch episodes for this show,
but I've only ever seen each episode one time, just
like the week four days before when we would get
it from production, just to like clear your name in
your head, just to be like I saw that, didn't
do it, like just to make sure you're safe.

Speaker 3 (07:29):
We see stuff that you didn't see.

Speaker 1 (07:31):
Right, No, we are like jen Pop. We get it
four days before. So I don't know what anyone said.
I don't remember what happened. I never remember anything that
came out of my mouth. And now in watching it
again as a person, if I read a book or
watch a TV show, I will watch it again. It
could be six weeks later, could be four days later.
I forget what happened. I'll forget a whole character got
killed something.

Speaker 2 (07:50):
I just have that.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
It was like the slate goes clean. So I didn't
remember a lot of this episode.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
So I'm watching. I'm doing this with you.

Speaker 3 (07:57):
The moment is what you're saying is that you're very like, yes,
I have a little bit of the same thing. I
can meet somebody. It's like, I'm so focused on this,
and then somewhere down the line, I'm like, because I
got so sidetracked by like they were like, well my
daughter did this, and then my dog and the thing,
and I'm like, and then I don't know, it's the same.
I have a similar thing.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
And the gift is now that now I'm finally watching
it like a viewer because I'm not in it, and
so now I'm seeing it and I'm seeing some different
perspectives about people, about their positions and arguments. So we
see in this one a flashback to the week before
where the whole thing starts with Luan saying to Derinda,

(08:39):
she's starting. So in the moment, I'm at that table
having a disagreement with Carol on the other end, and
I think we are the only two people in the world,
and I think that the cameras are only on us,
and I'm thinking about how this is going to come
off later, I'm sure to the audience, and I don't
realize that we're not the main show. We are the
side show. But I'm thinking that that's what this is about.

Speaker 3 (08:59):
You without your the main character moment, and you're.

Speaker 2 (09:01):
Like, I was not.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
I was just totally supporting exactly. So we thought were
having a main character moment. And I get up from
the table because I just want to go home, and
I hear that something happened down there. And when I
hear what it was, I hear that I didn't really hear.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
I heard that she's starting. I didn't hear myself.

Speaker 1 (09:20):
I heard that she said she's starting, and I understood
exactly what that meant because I remember that night ordering
a mocktail for Luanne, because I remember she Everything was
about Luene sobriety, just the way it became cabaret.

Speaker 3 (09:30):
She off. I feel like she'd just gotten back from Florida.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
She had just and rehab. She was drinking mocktails and
saying to Dirinda, she's starting.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
Now. I know Dorinda.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
I know both sides, So one is the preachy and
Dirinda if you trigger something duringda Smarten in the back
of her mind, even in her drinking, she's like shuffling
the deck and she knows like that she's gonna have
to cover up all the holes and do a big distraction,
otherwise are going to come in about her drinking like
I understand, or into doing it. I understand all of

(10:06):
how that happened. So that's but it's also how it
went from zero to sixty exactly. That's all Durinda, by
the way, zero to one sixty or whatever you said,
zero sixteen.

Speaker 3 (10:14):
Yeah, so like zero to sixty. So I understand. I
agree with you. As a viewer. I remember when they
said which one do you want to watch? And I said,
I want to watch Ship Happens because I remember as
a viewer it was like an incredible hour of television
because again, it's one of those moments I felt like

(10:37):
there were so many stories going on, yes, and I
felt like people Tinseley is actually like the oddest of
everybody because it's like but it's sort of perfect because
she's like in her own like fairy tale, winding around
like the boat is about to sink. Oh well, you
know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (10:56):
But I got to give you context on that. I
got to give you context on that because because for
some reason, I've mentioned this before, when someone quote unquote
owns a trip, which is total bullshit because no one
owns a trip Bravo owns a trip, they book the house,
they get the integration, and you get to like a
big star that took a yacht with everybody, right. So Tinsley,
you can see her going on the roller coaster of
wanting to own the trip, but then be away from

(11:17):
the trip and we don't like something, but then be in.
So she's like I thought they'd let So she's trying
to be like, well, I want them to see my Cardiena.
And when we get to the nice Island, she's like,
this is the Cardiena. I know, Like she's on a
roller coaster, like she owns Cartiana. It's like, fucking chill out.
You don't own diarrhea or nor that island. It's okay,
Like none of this is about me, it's about.

Speaker 3 (11:36):
Brava that today. I watched the episode today while I
was running away doing press and we have like an
hour break and we were at like some station. I
was like, can we watch the episode? And my makeup artist,
Rebecca Rostreppo, is from Columbia, and she said, I know

(11:56):
exactly where they are and that is the most dangerous
water and they would as soon as they said we
have to go. It's three pm and the water gets
dangerous and she went, it is it's terrible the way
I mean, she knew exactly. She's like, it's where Panama
comes in and this comes in.

Speaker 2 (12:10):
Yes, the water.

Speaker 3 (12:12):
She watched it and it was interesting because she's like, oh, yeah,
that water is so scary and it is. You know,
you're probably gonna be fine, but if you don't know
what's happening, it's terrifying. I said, Like when watching the episode,
I said, oh my god, it's like did you Well,
you probably didn't because you don't watch as many I

(12:34):
don't think you watched as many movies. But it's like
two movies came out last year and one was called
The Banshees of Innisharon Okay, and it was like and
it was about friendship and one friend, this friend breaks
up with Colin Ferrell and he's like, I just don't
like you anymore. And they were like best friends and
they have this breakup and I was like, oh my god,
it's like watching you and Carol this breakup. I was like,

(12:56):
it's the band She's of innis Shearin. And then it
became Triangle of Sadness, which is this other movie where
everybody's like shitting and kuking on a boat that's going down.

Speaker 1 (13:05):
Oh my god, Well the thing is too though, when
you realize this, there were so many subplots that break
the fourth wall that were going on because we realized
that there were no lives. There were there were like
two or four life boats, life jackets on the boat,
and there's a whole crew too. So I was the
one when we got off and that that literally called

(13:26):
this ep into my room was like, what the fuck?
And the house was disgusting, which you don't want to
say on television because you're gonna say it's disgusting and
you're this spoiled bitch. But the house was gross. Our
feet were black. The whole time was dirty. It was gross.
And they put us on this boat without thinking of
life jackets and it felt like a full That guy
got in a lot of trouble. It wasn't great for him.
But I was the one who had everyone riled up
because I said to the producers, you send us in

(13:48):
a hotel.

Speaker 2 (13:49):
We are going to a hotel tonight. I don't give
a shit.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
So when we did that exit in the cars, that
was a fake exit. It wasn't the day we were
leaving for the airport, we were leaving for the hotel
because I said, once we leave this house, we're not
doing a fake exit tomorrow back at this house, We're
never coming back. And I was like, we need to
go to a hotel. So we all spent one night
at a hotel.

Speaker 3 (14:07):
But where did everybody like have diarrhea everywhere.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
At the house everyone has a house God sit separate
than us hating the house. We all didn't like the house.
But in the beginning everyone has to act like they're
so gracious, but everyone's you know, the wheels start coming off,
and then when things are going bad, everyone's trying to
be admit and we all at the same time didn't
want to throw each other under the bus by hating
the house, aligned and hating the house. So once we

(14:31):
all hated the house. Plus we got into this accident,
this terrible thing, and there were no life jackets. It
gave us a good excuse, like, get us the fuck
out of here. You guys are in hot water, no pun,
deep water, no pun intended. At the same time, all
the women were shitting all over the house and there
was not enough toilet paper in the house. And the
toilets weren't getting fixed, and Ramona was using a hand towel,
and someone shited on the floor and shit the bed,

(14:54):
shit the bed, and Ramona shited the floor. And Sonya
had a diaper on on the way home.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
Have a picture of it.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
I sent it to Andy, a diaper on, an adult
diaper on the flight home. So we got out of
that house and went over to that hotel and people
had parasites and it was a disaster. I was fine,
I could drink.

Speaker 3 (15:10):
It, but you were not. You were like practically like
gargling with like sewer water.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
Correct, yes, yeah. And I was constipated. I mean I
was kind. That's why I was like, I'm gonna take something.
I was constipated. And they were shifting out of their
ears so.

Speaker 3 (15:29):
Rude when you have I don't know which is worse
one end or the other said it's pretty. I mean
their diarrhea.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
Was No, that's not.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
If I was, yeah, I would have stayed in Columbia
for the rest of my life. I was gonna shot
on the floor. I would never recover that.

Speaker 3 (15:45):
I know, she said when Lunn said at the end,
She's like I left her gifts and I was like, yeah,
I dire And I was like, oh no, you have
to strip the bed. You you take it? Yes, you
leave so much money as a tip.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
Even stop that shown you ship the bed in sane
Barts because of another reason that was because of an
you know, illegal entry.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
Or you know that country.

Speaker 1 (16:12):
That was when I was I don't know if it
was somebody somebody got their hook in her and she
shitn't happen.

Speaker 2 (16:16):
So it's a classy group. It's the same as yeah,
it's a class.

Speaker 3 (16:20):
But I was also But here's what was so incredible
about it. It was like this hot when you guys
first start the episode and you're at the table, there's something.
There's an amazing moment that I was when I I
just really I saw it. You're sitting there because you're
sort of like I feel like I'm a little bit
like you. Like if I feel it, I have to
talk about it, talk about it because I can't. I

(16:42):
don't want to have I don't want to hold it.
I need to get it out and either we're going
to move past it or figure it out. But I can't.
I can't. It's so fake to sit there and be
like oh yeah, yeah, I know, and Carol gets up
from the table and you're just like, I can't fucking
do this. This is crazy. I feel like I'm miss
and you're talking, and then Carol somehow sneaks back in
it and it sounds I didn't realize. I thought you.

(17:06):
I don't know why like I thought you. You literally
didn't know she was at the table and then she
just sat there and was like, I'm here, Bethany. But
I also wanted to shake Carol and be like, just
have a like you were friends, Like there was something
so you guys like from the show. It was like

(17:27):
the year before you were taking her to Saint Barts
and you were you guys were inseparable.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
When I was inseparable. Jill too, and the not the same.
But when you meet someone on a reality show, it
is not a place to start a relationship. It is
not a place to start a relationship because a lot
of the bond is what is going on with these
other people, and it's an alliance, not intentionally, but you
think everything is real, and that's why a lot of

(17:53):
these relationships dissolve and lesson when one person leaves the show,
because it feels real. It's like the endorphins of being
on the same show and having somebody that makes you
feel safe and they're getting your back when you're not there.
And if one person, if somebody is living differently off
camera than on camera, then you're like the guardian of
their secrets and the lines are blurred and you can't

(18:14):
really bring it into the show. Then you feel like
you're being honest.

Speaker 2 (18:17):
They're not.

Speaker 1 (18:17):
It makes you feel like they're It just feels disingenuous,
and things that happen off season come into the next one,
and that's where all the problems have ever lied in
this situation.

Speaker 3 (18:29):
It's interesting. I have like, just when you said that,
that's like a huge secrets are a huge, huge sugar
for me, Like I it is like just rip the
band aida, like it goes very deep with me off
something that happened when I was a child like that.
Like secrets, I find them so infuriating. I can't I
literally cannot abide them.

Speaker 1 (18:49):
It may not be important, but it's also something that
doesn't matter that you can't bring it up to the group.
I can't say something that happened off camera, that happened
with her boyfriend at the time that really annoyed me
because someone's like, why is your energy off of Carol
because it was happening off camera. But now I don't
want to say that, but if I say it, I'm right, Like.

Speaker 3 (19:06):
It's not fun. Yeah, it's complicated.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
It's complicated, right.

Speaker 3 (19:10):
But which is interesting though when you said like friendships
that happened on the show, because then you have these
friendships between Ramona and Sonya and Luanne which feel like
they knew each other before.

Speaker 1 (19:23):
That's into the problem, yes, but not bad, not bas Yeah,
but that's.

Speaker 3 (19:28):
That's that there's an intimacy of like I don't know,
it's really it's fascinating. But there was something about this
trip so Cartagena that felt like you were watching a
lot of things imploding and then this dramatic, scary thing happened.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
Totally true, Like you couldn't even write that in that's
so true. That brought everything to the surface fair and.

Speaker 3 (19:50):
Then and then suddenly you're like, well, we were gonna die,
so then you sort of like go, yes, it was fine,
Like and then you're in a foreign country and you
almost like you're the there enough, like I don't know,
there was something it was so it sounds like a
really incredible hour of television.

Speaker 1 (20:08):
No, it's like people think they're gonna die or the
plane's going down. You're hugging people that just sit next
to you. It doesn't matter what's going on in life.

Speaker 3 (20:14):
Yeah, and then you all just start that like I mean,
Sonia said something when like the boat's already starting to
go weird, and Sonya's like, this isn't normal, this isn't normal,
and Tinsey's like, this is how the water is, this
is how the water is.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
Well, she's drinking and trying to cover up the trip.
She wants to put frosting on this trip. She keeps
putting frosting on the trip because she's feeling like the
viewer is going to think it's her trip, her trip, Yeah,
because she had gotten there was Scott. So she's like
owning it and everyone wants to own the house and
own the trips.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
She's owning and.

Speaker 3 (20:44):
Make it like that it's the best thing ever. But nothing.
But what made me laugh is that since Sonya goes,
I just peed all over is this yours? And she
picks up like this black jacket and she literally peed
on Tinsley's coat or something, and I was like it
was like this funny precursor to the diarrhea that was about.

Speaker 1 (21:03):
To say, that's hilarious pressing, and she had it's sexy. First,
Luanne is sitting down and we're about to get into
the Durinda and Luanne fight, and we're talking about the
countess and there's obviously some countess problem that people are having,
and and Luanne likes to say, well, Lady Gaga, oh
my god, I wrote it down, and Queen Latifa right,
And Carol though does says something smart. She goes those

(21:23):
are stage names, like and now Countess has made it
into sort of a stage name, but she's using it
as like a real royal type with Darling you never
put your lipstick under the day, like we're not a
real count what does that even mean? You were born
in Connecticut and like act like you're European and you
use this name. This is a breakfast fight, and this
is a roller coaster because Deorinda doesn't know what she
can land. If she thinks she can land being right right,

(21:48):
she'll land it, but she can't land being wrong in
her head. She's in her head as an actress at
the moment, like she's in her head, thinking about like
how this is going to be, and she feels bad.

Speaker 3 (21:57):
Do you think she remembers the cup? Do you think
she remembers what she said the night before? Do you
think she really remembers she said?

Speaker 1 (22:05):
No, The essence like Ramona before, has been like shit,
I fucked up and I said something not great. And
Durnda knows herself too, and she knows she lit you know,
lit up, and she probably wasn't right. And she knows
that Luanne did provoke her, say something to provoke her,
which I understand, but that's Direinda's style. It's like you
come and say one thing, I will blow the whole

(22:26):
top off. So yeah, And she just doesn't like to
be like scolded for even a second.

Speaker 2 (22:32):
She gets worried about like she will cut you off
with the pass.

Speaker 3 (22:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:36):
So I I understand Durinda's perspective though, And and Luanne
didn't even give a real apology. I was like, well,
I'm sorry if you thought that I was it.

Speaker 3 (22:49):
Was all that must be very difficult. There were always
like those apologies like when somebody goes, well, that must
be very difficult for you. Yes, it's fake apologies. It's
like this is your this is your bullshit on your
side of the I'm not I'm not owning that, and
it felt like they were both doing it for each
other like these like I'm apologizing, I'm doing the right thing,

(23:10):
but I'm not really apologizing. I'm not really owning my shit.

Speaker 1 (23:14):
It's true, but I will say that talking to Luwane
the night before, I do realize that when you see
somebody I have a person that I was friendly with
that often goes dark, like below the belt, and when
you see that someone has that side, that lash that
will go all the way. It's scary because Luanne said
she's starting, which isn't great, but that's reality show like medium,

(23:37):
but saying like, oh really, I don't have a fucking mugshot,
Like what that's.

Speaker 3 (23:43):
You're Yeah, fasten your seatbelts. It's gonna be a bumpy knife.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
That feels different like you're going to go for anything
you can grab at. That's not great in the heat
of the moment, and that's scary as a recipient. So
I Luanne was a little like, wow, I didn't know
you felt this way about me. Like I, I will
say I understand Luan's perspective. She was wrong to poke
a bear in the zoo, but she got a lot.

(24:08):
The punishment did not fit right, Okay, so we agree
the punishment did not at the crime it was. It
was disproportionate to what had happened. I agree with God
and yes, and Derinda knows that, which is why she's inside.
And one of the things that Ramona is a gem
at and Durinda and I are failures at and you
seem to be a failure at it too. If in

(24:29):
the moment you're not feeling the mood, but the party
is still going on because we're in a reality show
and we're in the next scene and we're all supposed
to act like we didn't just get gutted. Durinda can't recover,
and I'm I can you you're moody. I couldn't recover
earlier in Colombia when I was upset and you think
things aren't going your way and it's hard to like
just pop out. Romona can pop out like a jack
in the box and change in the next scene just

(24:50):
really remarkable.

Speaker 3 (24:51):
Well, but I I just I don't. That's like it's
it feels, it just feels I couldn't. I don't under
how it's humanly possible to go like that feels like
wait where that makes me weirdly feel more unsafe when
somebody's like I do, And then it's fine, We're that's
the thing that people do.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
All the time, the same.

Speaker 3 (25:14):
It's like, wow, wipe this under the carpet, like it's
not normal, it's it's but it's fascinating to watch, Like,
I mean, Ramona, right, Ramona is the queen of being
able to be like I don't know, I don't know,
I don't know with those eyes and those right, like

(25:34):
it's just like okay, And then she does these apologies,
but I feel like she means them when she's doing it,
but it also feels, I don't want to say, insane,
but it's ingenuous.

Speaker 1 (25:45):
No, she just wants to get to the next scene
and clean it up so she can get to the
next party. And that's the thing, because Ramona is perfect
for reality TV because she brings the drama but doesn't
kill the party.

Speaker 2 (25:56):
So Ramona, you and.

Speaker 3 (25:58):
I are vibe killers and and she said that.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
But I will decimate someone like on what happened, but
I won't just throw out wild insults, you know, And
I won't go low like that, like I'll say something
based on something that's happening or that has happened. It
might hurt them, but it's not like out of nowhere,
and a lot of those moments in my life I

(26:24):
still remember. So these people could never be my very
close friends because none of my ever, none of my
close friends, have ever said anything to me like what
has been said to me on that show. So it's
just the genre. Yeah, it's the genre that you could
say to someone something like the mugshot thing and then
be friends with them next year, because I guess everybody
realizes that you were on the field checking each other

(26:46):
and that's part of what that game is.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
But it's hard to separate.

Speaker 3 (26:50):
It's really hard to separate. But then this incredible thing
happened when you guys went to the island, Like the
next morning though, they you guys, they're fighting at the
table and I believe I feel like you talked to
one of them. And then suddenly they're on some side porch.

Speaker 2 (27:09):
Like the hallway, like yeah, yeah, outdoor hallway.

Speaker 3 (27:13):
And they're crying and hugging each other and saying it's okay,
and I'm like, whoa. And then then they go they
go to the island, and it's like nothing happened, but
then Derenda feels lonely and then I don't know. It's
so it's you know when you have like a toddler
and they'll go from like joy to having a full

(27:34):
blown meltdown to and rage to passing on yeah, to
passing out and then waking up and being like, let's
do this totally, something like it's the boat, it's the boat,
and telling you it's like that boat became representative of
acts what was happening in the thing. I mean even

(27:55):
when you.

Speaker 1 (27:55):
Said, God, we have a new therapist for the show,
I'm so excited, Lessen.

Speaker 2 (27:59):
Yeah, you're right. So it's like.

Speaker 3 (28:00):
The second thing when you're at the table, you thought
this was happening, and it was like literally like parallels
that you guys are at one end and then at
the other end people are throwing mugshots and going off
like she's starting yeah over there, and then you and
Carol you're watching. I mean, for me as if you were.
I thought you guys were really close friends, and.

Speaker 2 (28:21):
I thought you were. We definitely were.

Speaker 3 (28:23):
Yeah, it's felt like you guys were really close friends,
and it was very sad to watch it because as
if you were there was every time you, guys thought,
I felt like you were watching the dissolution of a
very good friendship.

Speaker 2 (28:35):
Totally.

Speaker 1 (28:36):
It's a different style. We had a different style, by
the way, that's another thing you could analyze, first of all,
which you're describing about the two different groups. It's like
we're below deck with the crew and like they're the
fancy people over there, and there's two things going on
on the same boat. So yes, exactly upstairs downstairs. But
you're right, we had a different style of arguing. Like
in my mind, Carol's saying like, you know, you want

(28:58):
to text and talk and like I'm not.

Speaker 3 (29:01):
I'm busy.

Speaker 1 (29:02):
Yeah, I'm like, yeah, I don't have a life or
a job or career or whatever. It just was very
it was it was a little It was talking down
to me and she was like wow, stop, Bethany stop. Yes,
she kept dismissing me and making it like I was
so little and it was making me feel really bad.
But you're right, it was representative of it could be
a husband and a wife where she doesn't feel important anymore,

(29:24):
or a friendship. But it was a different style and
you're right that the two of them, it felt like
they both tried to really like win or get their
best shots in. And then in the hallway, it was
just like, let's just hug. Like you know, when you've
had a relationship fight with like let's say you and
San you got you want to just wake up the
next morn and be like, let's just not let's just
not do this, Let's just yeah, this is.

Speaker 3 (29:45):
What it is. We both weren't our best selves exactly,
but I will say there was something like I found
as a viewer, I was very it was heartbreaking and
and every time so it was started at that table
that it went the next morning when you guys were
at the breakfast table, and then I felt like you

(30:06):
were just like you said to me, were going down
the steps.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
You're like this is sing sing.

Speaker 3 (30:10):
Yeah, you were like this is sing sing. In this moment,
I saw like you saw the fact that you guys
were good friends, and like you sort of had a
similar like banter of something like I don't.

Speaker 2 (30:19):
Know it was it broke. It broke the fever.

Speaker 3 (30:22):
It broke the fever. But also and it was great writing.
It was really funny, and the fact when you guys
that they got on the boat, and Tinsley kept saying,
it's not that big of a deal, It's not that
big of a deal, and then they cut to Carol
and Carol says, I have reported in Afghanistan.

Speaker 2 (30:38):
Oh well, of course she said that, yes, And then
what she.

Speaker 3 (30:41):
Was saying just to say that boat was terrifying, and
it's in line of what you were saying. There was
not enough vests, there was smoke coming out. You didn't
know why there was smoke coming out of the thing.
People are puking, people are sliding all over the place.
The poor crew is having to stand up and hold
cameras like, I don't know how they're holding.

Speaker 2 (31:03):
No, but you're right.

Speaker 1 (31:04):
You bring up another example of it being like a
drawing room comedy. Tinsley's at you know, a costume party,
you know and where, and Carol's throwing up at a
bucket like it's two different with the boat is it
wasn't a Megga yacht, It wasn't Paul Allen's octopusy the
three hundred foot. Yeah, it was a fucking forty foot boat.
And Tinsley's acting like she's in a different movie. She

(31:25):
like walked off the set into another soundstage.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
Yes, it's just.

Speaker 3 (31:32):
Like it was. It was so it was amazing and
she's kind of tipsy and drunk, and it was like this,
Like I was like, what I want what she's having.
I want to be able to go through life, and
she goes, I don't know, I don't know if I
just want to Like Ramona was like, what do you
want to do? What do you want to do? She's like,
I don't know. I've I've said this, maybe I just

(31:54):
want to be a wifey And I'm like, oh, and
it's to me, it's that's hard for me to relate.

Speaker 2 (32:00):
She and it didn't work out that great, of course, But.

Speaker 3 (32:03):
Like I mean, I was a kid like you were.
I feel like you probably had a job when you
were a kid, and you are like, I've just always
been working as a hustling in some way.

Speaker 1 (32:12):
Yes, But you know what, I'm gonna be honest about
two things. Number One with the Carol thing, which I'm
just going back one second, ok go, she I was
I don't want to say started it because it's juvenile,
but if somebody started this schism, it was me because
of things that happened off camera in the beginning of
the season, so I would say, if anybody lit the match,
I'm sure it was bubbling. But here she is right

(32:36):
when she says I'm questioning our friendship. I'm she's right
that I'm questioning it. And she's she's talking really badly
about me in the interviews, which I'm not really doing
about her, Like I'm she's really talking badly about me,
But Bethane's the biggest shopper, and like not saying it
to my face, which is she's because she's like very cowardice, cowardly.
But you're bringing I just want to check that box.

(32:58):
But when you're bringing up Tinsley, it's funny because now
I'm remembering that big heart of flowers that came the
day before and her performative Cardier bracelet, and I remember
that that made me feel a little bad about myself
and the relationship that I was in. And it was
very performative. It was always very on camera, which should
have been suspect about the guy who ended up publicly

(33:20):
talking badly about her when they broke up, like talking
to the press when he's not even a public personality,
and like, okay, it's a lot of money and he
bought her flower arrangements, probably one hundred and fifty dollars,
and he bought her a Cardia bracelet. It's a couple
of thousand dollars. It's not nothing, but it was all
on TV. Everything she got. Paul, my fiancees bought me
tons of major gifts and flowers and like, I don't

(33:43):
put that on TV. So now, with hindsight, I realized
I was probably in a certain place where it made
me feel a little insecure about my relationship or something.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
But you wasn't.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
I was with my ex who ended up passing away,
but it was not a relationship that I tried to
drink the relationship.

Speaker 2 (34:01):
Pretty and it wasn't. I always had a hope for it, but.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
That made me feel an worse if you're in a
bad place in your relationship and you see something like that,
even though it seems for the cameras, because he was
doing it for the cameras, who sends like like for
the Kentucky Derby flowers into a set.

Speaker 3 (34:17):
It was the craziest flower arrangement ever I forgot. He
gave her a Cardier bracelet.

Speaker 1 (34:23):
It was also Colombia was making the flower arrangement. So
maybe he didn't get pictures and this is what he
was getting.

Speaker 3 (34:27):
It doesn't matter. But I wanted to be like the
fact that like no, but that they could have easily
sent like a bouquet of flowers. That was a very,
that was a specific with the initials, so he had
to be say this is my initial this is mine.
Like they didn't sit there and go, you're right, what
is the what's the woman's last name? You're right, that's

(34:50):
his last name, and that they're in Colombia going oh, well,
let's do this and we're going to put their initials
on a giant part in white flowers and do that.
It was a very, It was that's interesting. It's presentational.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
Yes, got us for the view sorry, not for us,
for you for the viewer. Like Scott is a character
that wants the viewer to think he's a baller, and
there's a lot of like she drove her Bentley that
was not her, but it was never real.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
It wasn't her Bentley, it was his Bentley that he
let her.

Speaker 1 (35:17):
Drive for a little while with strings and then they
went on a trip to Dubai with Derinda and John
and all this other stuff. And if everybody wasn't following
the itinerary to a t, Scott scolded them all because
he was paying them all to promote his business. So
he's paying them like fifteen thousand dollars to promote Coupon Cabin.
So he was like using the show as a tool.

Speaker 3 (35:39):
He was really I remember like there were like Carol
and Tinseley did Coupon Cabin I forgot that's the name
of it. Commercials. Yes, Like there were commercials that ran
during the thing, and I was like, oh, this is weird,
this is this feels weird to me.

Speaker 1 (35:58):
Like what about when he bought a pink Chanel bag
via Tinsley and Leah promoted that, like talked about it,
and Leah had helped with Coupon Cabin too, so people
were like, you know, it seems good. Like you're doing
a commercial for a coupon Cabin, a company that's probably
worth a couple hundred million dollars, and of course he's
gonna buy you a Chanel bag, but that's like payment,

(36:20):
it's not like a gift. So it felt like the
whole thing he was trying to insert himself into the
show via these gifts that it's expensive. With six thousand
dollars to get Scott and coupon cabin into the show
is a small price to pay.

Speaker 3 (36:33):
Scott, the most shy person that never like wants to talk,
and like somehow he was smart enough to go like,
I'm not gonna I'm gonna insert myself, but I'm not
gonna say anything because he doesn't really speak. No, Okay, wait,

(36:56):
can I ask you one thing to queue? I literally
took notes, so.

Speaker 2 (37:02):
Look at this. I love this.

Speaker 1 (37:04):
I love very Springer, Rest and peace, Terry Springer. He
had pages of not copious notes, had never seen the show,
and he sent them to me, which is should go.

Speaker 3 (37:12):
In one of your offices. I'm sure you have a
lot of.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
Yes, I'm going to frame them. Okay, sorry, I go ahead.

Speaker 3 (37:17):
When they're talking, I think Dorinda maybe I don't know
if it was if they're on that side porch or
if they're on the island. They hug and Dorenda hugs
her and said let's go away for twenty one days.
And it's really underneath underneath, like she's hugging her hand.

(37:39):
Her head is buried in mind. But she hugged her
and she said, let's go away for twenty one days,
and I was like, wow, that's such an intense like
it was such a strange joke.

Speaker 2 (37:50):
You know, it's a good way.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
You know how people say now like there is new
terminology and some of it works, Like sober curious is
a nice terminology. I would say to be respect full
and based on things that I've said that Derinda has
a complicated and challenging relationship with alcohol. It's not you know,
it's a difficult relationship to it where I'm sure she

(38:14):
can go days and not drink and be in her
health kick and then and also to during this credit,
that show is very difficult to endure without having a cocktail.
It seems like a good idea. It could get you
through things.

Speaker 3 (38:27):
Also too, We've also been in a pandemic, so I
think that like everybody, I mean, I drink more than
I should have during like pandemic.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
It was something I do.

Speaker 3 (38:39):
It was something to do and the world is falling apart. Listen,
I there's no there's no stones being cast.

Speaker 2 (38:46):
No, I know You're not. You didn't even sound but.

Speaker 3 (38:48):
Like I I'm constantly like I always just sort of
check like drinking is just because it's a slippery slope,
especially after a pandemic.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
Like I stopped drinking hard alcohol full stop. At what
did I I was like having I'd be like, hey,
is it cocktail?

Speaker 2 (39:07):
Oh? Got it?

Speaker 3 (39:07):
But that's what salmon. I would be like, let's have
a drink, and.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
Yeah, no, it's a thing. But here's the thing I miss.
I miss cocktails. I'll sleep why yes? And I have
a rose and it's stunning an oath al I'm going
to put you on the list for that too. I
gotta but and it's stunning and it's elevated and it's
beautiful and it's called Forever Young, and it's just it's
like what we drink at this age, Like it's better
at one, it's got the highest rating. It's just a

(39:33):
different level. It's not your drinking to drink. But during
the pandemic, it was fun to make a cocktail. And
it was like and I missed the something to do.
Like I was a person that would be alone and
I would pour vodka over ice and like the sound
and I'd like the olives and it was like a
little process and just sip it. I wouldn't even drink
the whole thing, or if I couldn't sleep. I would
not drink all day and just like when I couldn't sleep,

(39:55):
sip it even though I know it's not good for
lack of sleep, but it didn't agree with me, and
it became something that I didn't like. I just didn't
like the dehydration aspect. I have health issues like it
just became something that you have a complicated relationship. But
it's not the same as when we were young.

Speaker 3 (40:10):
I could not agree or I find that like you
I was. I say to all my friends, I was like,
I don't have the legs for a hangover any I
just can't. And sometimes I find and this is what
I have, friend tricky, if I were a house I
don't know how you guys do it. I don't know
how you have cameras in your home all the time.

(40:39):
So it's it's so interesting. So it's so easy to
be like I hate this person and I hate this
and this makes me nuts. But it's also like it's
we're as a as the as the viewer. We're consuming
you so and then we're like it's like the Colosseum
in a way. That's what I feel like, Yeah, you

(40:59):
have to be like that you're in, you're out.

Speaker 2 (41:01):
No, exactly. Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (41:03):
I always said, brilliant, brilliant, everybody, let's loop clap. Because
it's a zero some game at all times, it's a
it's Someone asked me, what does that mean? As zero
some game means what you just said, someone lives, someone
dies at all times in every scene. If you break
down any scene ever, someone is winning, someone is losing.

(41:26):
You may not even know if you're the fish in
the room. If you don't know who the who's getting fucked,
you're getting fucked. You don't know it, like you're the
one and and it could be five people feeding off
the frenzy and they're talking about you and you walk
in the room and you didn't know that you're the
one getting fucked, like and that is so activating, and
it is unnecessary.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
And it is toxic.

Speaker 1 (41:45):
And people take antidepressants that get on the show anti anxiety.
And that's why I left. This is not real things
that are going on in my life. And I'm so
much healthier. I like, it's just I look different.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
It's just different. It's so interesting.

Speaker 3 (41:58):
That's so interesting that I use That's the thing. I mean,
I sometimes feel like when you said which franchise is, Like,
I got to the point where I couldn't watch Real
Housewives of Salt Lake City because I was like, but
this is this is this is really somebody's like this
is I got I couldn't you're watching cut like because

(42:21):
then it gets tricky when people the families get involved,
and there's like that part of it where you're like
real stakes. This is like brothers and sisters or cousins
or people are going to jail.

Speaker 1 (42:34):
You're just growing dark. When it gets dark, people want out.
And also when I'm like giving.

Speaker 3 (42:41):
A boat, they're just shitting. That's all I want, Yeah, exactly,
and they live when people love to love them, it's great.

Speaker 1 (42:50):
When people love to hate them, it's great. When people
hate to hate them, it's bad. That's when someone gets fired.
That's when a show doesn't do well. If you're feeling
bad at how you're feel like you hate to hate,
then it's bad. Like you're like that person makes me
feel gross. That situation is making me feel gross. That's
when that's what you're describing, Like, that's when it's dark.

Speaker 3 (43:19):
All right.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
So Drinda describes a pink cloud. I've never heard that
before and I like that.

Speaker 3 (43:23):
That's I wrote that chund too.

Speaker 1 (43:26):
It's for something. Yeah, it is a good it's a
good name for something, like a brand or something.

Speaker 3 (43:32):
It feels like there could be he is it an
alcohol brand? I don't know.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
Yeah, I mean it's cute. It's cute.

Speaker 3 (43:40):
It's it's a cute like a wine or a rose
or something that's like something you know.

Speaker 2 (43:46):
Yes, it's a brand name. It's a very and you
can brand it. Yes.

Speaker 1 (43:50):
And I do shop and buy and spend more than
any of the housewives, but I don't talk about it
as like an activity all the time. It became something
when you'd hear it, you'd be like, okay, let's talk
more about I got them. That's so cute, and we'die,
I don't know, so that's what that that's what that is.

Speaker 3 (44:06):
But how many hats did you buy on that fucking trip?
Because you bought a lot of hats and they were
on your bed And I screamed at the Remember when
I originally watched it, I screamed at my like probably
my television. And I felt the inclination today when I
saw it. It was like, get your hats off your bed.
It's bad.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
Oh, I thought that was just oh fair, I thought
that was just bags, okay, shoes, No, No, it's just hats. No,
oh okay, Well then I've fucked a lot of my
life up.

Speaker 2 (44:32):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (44:32):
So I am a hat person. I have many, many hats.
I wear many hats hat but I can destroy some,
like I'll fold the back up when I'm on allown
share of the beach.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
I'll wear it on a boat. I'll get it wet.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
So I go through them if I don't really if
I buy one that's really expensive, then I really like
cherish it. Like I own two air Mes hats, and
that's like then it's like I'm precious about it. But
I love hats and I buy hats. Also, I shop
a lot on vacation. Like I don't shop. I don't
go shopping as a person.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (45:05):
I'll shop online a little, and I've stopped that because
I don't like to have all this stuff and I
like to get rid of stuff. Yeah, but like Paul
and I are going to the South of France this
summer and we're already talking about like that will be
a place that will.

Speaker 2 (45:17):
Buy I'll buy a piece of jewelry. I'll buy a serious.

Speaker 1 (45:22):
Bag, and I forgot what the other thing was and
like that and probably like something really nice. It's clothing,
but I'll come home and it'll be a hit, It'll
be a serious hit.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
So I shop on vacation.

Speaker 3 (45:33):
Also in the south of France are all these markets
that are just like incredible, yes it's incredible, nuggets of
things to buy for your kitchen and for this like
that's really my I bought a great Red. It wasn't
even like the most expensive bag, but it was just
this great Red like side simple bag that you can.

Speaker 1 (45:54):
I love these markets, so all right, So we did
the both then, but we didn't really do the island thing,
which is telling because sometimes you need to, like I will,
like yesterday Paul and I were in the house and
we just we get I call it stale. We get
stale because we're homebodies. We never go anywhere, and we
never do anything. There's no reason what do we do.

(46:14):
Like I don't need to go to a museum really
that often, and I don't need sometimes I don't want
to go to a restaurant.

Speaker 2 (46:21):
I know it sounds crazy. And sometimes you not.

Speaker 3 (46:23):
Go to a museum because people are gonna.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
No, I'm not like McDon no.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
I'm saying like we would go to a museum, and
that would be a nice thing to do, so we
can jack a box and say we did something and
we'd like to look at the art and we could go.

Speaker 2 (46:36):
To a gallery.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
But I feel like often people go places where they're
going to like transact and buy things and I don't.
I just I've been on a thing where I don't
want to go like walk round, walk the avenue or
go because then.

Speaker 2 (46:49):
We're gonna end up. I just don't want a window show.
I can't explain it.

Speaker 3 (46:52):
I like so much like you wouldn't go Like this Thursday,
I'm gonna go to to go see the Georgia o'keef
a moment you wouldn't do that.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
I would go if you said would go, but yes,
but I sometimes have a hard work that goes in
to see the avenar.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
I would, but I have a hard time going. I
know it sounds crazy.

Speaker 3 (47:11):
I'm like the I think it's like PTSD from this
from being on the show. I think it's also like
I think that when you go on the street, people
are like, there's company, there's company. I think that you
are very recognizable. Nobody knows who I am. I was
out yesterday with a very good friend of mine who
is very famous and on a very famous TV like

(47:33):
he is in the zeitgeist right now. And I have
known him a long time. And we were with his
brother and sister and me and Sammy and I was
watching the difference of him being watched. And we were
supposed to go see a play and then we missed
the play because traffic was terrible in New York yesterday,

(47:54):
And then we went to Joe Allen and then we
came to my neighborhood and we were walking around in
my neighborhood and went to go look at his We
were just sort of on the street a bunch. Yeah,
I could see people if like we had to keep
moving because if we stalled, of course on and so
I thought, I think a little bit, this is me

(48:16):
psychoanalyzing you. But I think that maybe that could be
because I feel like if you stop, people feel like
they know you, they feel like who you are? They
they they I'm was was your thing with your with
the boyfriend when he passed? Was that on the show?
Was that talking beyond?

Speaker 2 (48:35):
And it was very very public, Yeah, very.

Speaker 3 (48:38):
So then that was like they're invested in that, and
and I think that, like you're not. I think that
it's just that's like the the blight of reality television.

Speaker 1 (48:50):
I think it was the perfect storm because when I
was younger in the city, I would go to Starbucks
in pajamas and I would have anxiety. If I had plans,
I'd try to find a way to cancel the plans,
like if I had someplace I had to really go to,
something like the Kentucky Derby or something, I could like
gear up and get myself like I'm gonna do that
thing because it's a bigger thing. But the little things,

(49:13):
the day to day and the dinners and the things,
they've always felt weird and useless to me and pointless.
And I didn't understand my relationship with like the outside,
which is why the Housewise was in one way good
for me, because it made me put on clothes and
put on makeup and like pretend I had something to
do even if I'm busy and work the pandemic. So
there then add fame it And I've never thought that
I was well known ever, And that's not a bit,

(49:35):
it's a true thing. I still walk out when I
go and I forget, so when people come I love,
it reminds me that like, oh god, I can't just
like say and do, and so that puts a guard up.
Then the pandemic gave me the excuse to be who
i'd innately am, and I leaned in for two years,
getting to like never leave the house because you didn't

(49:57):
need to. You could order from instacart, you could get
your nail. So it's all converged, and my relationship to
the outside and to going places has changed. I'm in
a relationship with someone who also is not very social,
but he's out during the day, going to the office,
getting the clothes on, doing that, and I don't do that.
So at night he's not one who's like running to

(50:17):
go out. So all of this converged into this insular person.

Speaker 3 (50:22):
Can I also can I just add onto that and
say that. I also think, again and again I watch
these shows because I find them like character studies. I
think you are very transparent, as on these shows, you're
very transparent you and you're funny, and so you have

(50:42):
these youth are fucking funny and you have like in
your fast lightning fast. But because you're so transparent and
you have your feelings. I think it makes you very
relatable so that people.

Speaker 2 (50:58):
I mean, I'm actually you know you yeah, you know.

Speaker 3 (51:02):
I mean I watched it. I saw like when you
got married to the guy, and then I remember seeing
that you got divorced, and it was like, oh god,
and I'm divorced. I was like, if that, if my
divorce was ever that, I really I said the same
thing with Sonia. It was like her losing her house
and that I was like, oh god, we're it's I know,

(51:25):
it makes for great television, and I know everybody signed
up for it. I know everybody signed up for it
and they're getting paid for it, and I just but
there is a moment where it feels, you know, it's
like when when you walked in when that person sent
you that picture. I know we're sidetracking from the episode,
but when you walked in, you would you and Luanne

(51:45):
sometimes went to loggerheads. But when you got the photo
of that that oh and you were like yeah, and
you saw him kissing somebody and you had to go in,
it was like, first off, it was the craziest piece
of television. That That's how it all. It's like, it's
kind of like that affair that the people had on

(52:06):
vander Pump Rules. It's like, you're going to sleep with
a girl in your own friend group and you don't
think it's going to come out. You're on a reality
television show. Like from that moment I was watching, I
was like, this is crazy. You have to go in
and say to somebody while cameras are rolling your husband

(52:26):
who you're or this guy you're about to marry that
you're so in love with he was kissing.

Speaker 1 (52:32):
And there were honest though I don't I'm not her
best friend and I do not want to show with
her like I don't really care, Like I care, but
I don't really care, but I have to care, but
I have.

Speaker 3 (52:43):
Yeah, you did good girl code there you were like
I would want to know. But the way that you again,
I goes back to that moment between you and LeeAnne.

Speaker 2 (52:54):
I felt for her.

Speaker 3 (52:55):
She was like, Bethany, don't say like you could see.

Speaker 2 (52:57):
Yeah that was a requiz again, it was a real moment.

Speaker 3 (53:00):
Yeah, the act was like it was an incredible moment
and it was really meaningful because I the whole everybody
knows that you guys aren't like the chiniest drums, right,
but like that you had to be the person so.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
And I did feel for her no matter what. Yeah
you did.

Speaker 3 (53:16):
But I think that's like the thing with going out
probably is it can be I'm right now and like
a kick right now. It's like as corny as it sounds, like,
I want people like I'm going to movies all the time,
like I want I hope people go see like this
movie about my father. I want them to go see
it because A I really love the movie, which I

(53:38):
never say about a movie I've done. I usually am
like eh, but.

Speaker 2 (53:41):
I love it.

Speaker 3 (53:42):
But I want people to be like out and invested.
And yes, I think we've spent so much time hold
up in our apartment that I don't think it's healthy.
I think it's healthy, not healthy.

Speaker 1 (53:53):
This is not healthy. The way that I live is
not I know it's not and I think about it.
But I'm saying I get to go because it gives
me a reason to get up and like wash my hair,
be a person.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
So okay, So the only last thing.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
I wanted to talk about was I loved when I
will say that I loved that island that we went to,
and I loved when Tinsley got into water and with
her hair like that was a big, big season moment.
We swam and we felt free and Tinsley was in
the water. That was like the highlight of the trip.

Speaker 2 (54:17):
And I like Tinsley. I have to say that I
like Tinsley a lot.

Speaker 3 (54:21):
Oh I think that she I like that she is
what she is. She's unapologetic about it. Just sometimes I
just don't understand like a life of just being a whyfy.
But I also said yes, but I also admire the
fact that she says it. It's just like it's it's

(54:42):
so not. But I had something, wait, hold on, fucking
Sonya said something. She goes she was a little lit,
I think, but she goes, the market's down, but I'm
up today.

Speaker 2 (54:54):
That's a great line. She has some good line. That's
a great line.

Speaker 3 (54:58):
Get the market's down, but I up today.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
That's hilarious.

Speaker 3 (55:02):
Walking around the island and she had why are we
not discussing this, Bethany Frankel, let's here she you were
in the water, She's gonna get in the water.

Speaker 2 (55:13):
Oh the tags she had and she pulled her thing.

Speaker 3 (55:16):
Down and was like, have the tag on her bathing suit?
So that she could return it.

Speaker 2 (55:24):
Oh well that's a fact, that's a fact. No, not
return it, No, because she has that too. Sell it.

Speaker 1 (55:31):
Some is returns because if it was like a gown,
she'd return it would is what you did for prom
I guess when people do like tweet to return it?
But what are we doing with Sonya's busted up vagina bikini?

Speaker 3 (55:41):
But what I love about her is she again? I
mean this is because I like it. This is the
one thing I do envy all of those people when
I watched that show. They're unapologetic about who they are.

Speaker 1 (55:51):
They're like, no, not all, not all, Yes, Sonya, yes
what you said about Timsley not Whaley.

Speaker 3 (55:58):
Wanne is a little bit. I feel like she owns she's.

Speaker 2 (56:01):
Not apologetic, but she's not truthful.

Speaker 1 (56:03):
So she's unapologetic about getting caught about who she really is,
but she's never she's not unapologetic about who she really
is because we don't really see who she really is.
Carols similarly, but Sonya is unapologetic about being a mess.

Speaker 3 (56:15):
She's leaning in to the Ramona seems unapologetic that.

Speaker 1 (56:19):
I mean certainly no, Sonya Ramote is very apologetic in
an insincere manner.

Speaker 3 (56:25):
Also too, when they're getting in. This is so funny.
I mean when Ramona didn't Romota hurt like broke her
foot or sprained her ankle.

Speaker 2 (56:32):
It seemed like fake news half the time.

Speaker 3 (56:34):
Yeah, but she's getting in and there's's like a moment.
This is like the thing that brings me back to
the show of like Luanne's like, you guys found like
there's something the crab and you're like, let's scare Ramona Tony.
It was such a again, like but that felt authentic.
It felt like girlfriend's like, hold on, we're going to
do this. And then Leuyne gets in the in the

(56:57):
hammot Now Ramona has this fucked bankle She's walking around
with like a ziploc bag full of ice, which is
already my four again. I want to steal that because that,
to me is just a character moment. Yeah, it's a
great character Yeah. And she's about to get in. I'm like,
you have a sprain day, claud I don't know how
you're getting in that hammock. And she looks at somebody
and she goes hold my eyes. And there's just funny

(57:18):
to have to make a staff member.

Speaker 2 (57:22):
Do you have a notebook for these character moments.

Speaker 3 (57:24):
I keep things like my brain is it's somehow I
need to.

Speaker 2 (57:28):
Have a Housewives character moment, no book.

Speaker 3 (57:31):
I don't know what, somehow I remember, like when I
start working on something, it is filed away in my brain.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
Like, but it's funny that you say that about the
hammock and the crab because it's a girlfriend moment, but
it's also a wink to.

Speaker 2 (57:44):
The audience, like this is the Mormona moment we need,
like we all know.

Speaker 1 (57:49):
This person and that she's a train wreck and that
she's carrying chicken in her purse at the reunion, which
I called out, and she's got extensions down to her
vagina that are weaving in with her bush, and that
she's got a fake wheelchair when she needs it.

Speaker 3 (58:02):
But it's also what I feel like we needed in
that episode Begause, Yes, you guys at the house at
that breakfast was it was, and but we're also forgetting
that the episode before was equally like bonkered and really natural.
Then also, I said I wrote this down, the silence

(58:24):
between Carol and Bethany was deafening. Ah, when you guys
were eating just just you guys, just sitting there like
not a word. But again, it sort of broke my heart.
I was like two people who again going back to
a dissolution of a friendship that like we saw you

(58:44):
guys like in the Hamptons and and you guys off
when the cameras weren't rolling, went on vacation together. It's
I mean, I've had friendships break up and it's it's
it's it's not like you can have these deep to anytime.
It's like a deep relationship and then it just splits
apart and something happens, you know, it's the season or

(59:07):
what is it in our lifetime or whatever it is.
It's brutal because I don't know about you, but like
my girlfriends. I love Sam, but I need my girlfriends.
I have to have to have those female relationships because
they keep me afloat.

Speaker 1 (59:25):
Yes, and I think it's very I haven't really. The
only person I really went into this with is Elizabeth
Moss about that actresses do you understand? First of all,
there are a lot of actresses on the house. Was
not in New York, but I'm Beverly Hills. But actresses
understand this show in a different way because you've got
to get into this character and it has to be real,
so you understand what it feels like to have a

(59:46):
deafening silence in a scene. And sometimes I bet even
as an actor, you don't trust the moment, like is
this too long?

Speaker 2 (59:52):
Is this too long?

Speaker 1 (59:52):
It feels weird, like you might get into your head
or something. It's like that you're sitting there and it's
just so long and weird, and like you anxiety about
things like that are happening and the way things will
be portrayed. And I imagine actresses go through that too
in a different way.

Speaker 3 (01:00:09):
Well, I think like you know, you get on a
set and you're gonna you're gonna make a choice. You're
gonna do something, and it's about being vulnerable. I'm gonna
make a choice. I'm gonna do this thing, and either
is the director going to be like what are you doing? Right?

(01:00:31):
And that is like so sometimes like you know that's
that you have to risk it because and sometimes they
will do that, but then you have to be like,
I'm not doing this for you. And if and if
they do sort of you know, dance on your instinct,
you have to remember that's their bullshit. Because a good

(01:00:51):
director will trust that, Like you're trying to carve out somebody's.

Speaker 1 (01:00:56):
Okay, it's not because they're a person both, Like I'm
a person sitting here, and there are ten ways that
I can react to what Carol's saying, even in a
cocktail party where no one's filming there, I can say
to somebody who says something to me, that's a fucked
up thing to say. Or I can hold my breath,
or I can You have all these choices.

Speaker 3 (01:01:13):
By the way, the silence is way more fucking interesting, right,
But because it's more upsetting, it's because there's but it's.

Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
Still a choice, and the other one could be upsetting too,
is what I'm saying. It's the same experience where I
remember that one of the EPs of my talk show,
who produced Ellen for thirty years or I mean for
what however many years she was on, twenty years, ten years,
I don't know, he said, if.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
You have the feeling, you gotta go with it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
So like, instinctively, in the moment, you may feel this
is a suffocating time, and I feel uncomfortable and awkward,
but I'm just gonna live in it and breathe and
I watch it come out of the oven on TV,
and it's different than how it felt terrible years ago
when my boyfriend was saying I was saying, can we
we're gonna live together?

Speaker 2 (01:01:53):
And he was like, we'll talk about it later. And
I was like, but do you want to live together?

Speaker 1 (01:01:56):
Because I was trying to like close the just do
something for the audience, and he was like, we'll talk
about it later.

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
And I felt so uncomfortable and awkward.

Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
And when it came out of the oven, people thought
I was so vulnerable because it was honest, it was
what was going on.

Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
But I felt like a loser. I felt like a loser,
but they thought I was a winner.

Speaker 3 (01:02:14):
Of course, but that's you did win because women were
able to relate to that because we've all had that conversation, right.

Speaker 1 (01:02:22):
But I was an I just couldn't get there. I
was so I was so self conscious and so it
was a truthful thing that was happening, but it was
being received on the other side of that truth. I
just it's the choice that I made rather than just
be like, oh my god, it's so fine, let's dance,
like I made a choice. I could have chosen to dance.

Speaker 3 (01:02:39):
Also too, I feel like as an actor. When I
do something, I'll make a choice to do one where
it's the deafening silence and then when they go take
we get take one.

Speaker 2 (01:02:49):
Oh yeah, we don't get that as one take, so
you don't get that, but like.

Speaker 3 (01:02:53):
We get another chance to go, let's try it. It
is for the reality, and so I think that's why
actresses love watching it. Like I mean, we sit like
I just did this show. It was me and Kristin
wigg and Alice and Janney and we were wrapped talking
about the houses. I feel like there's something this. I

(01:03:16):
think we just relate to it. I think it's what
you were saying about Elizabeth Lawson, like that there's there's
something maybe because we feel like we get watched when
like when you see you know what I mean, there's
maybe something that like.

Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
Well, no, because Elizabeth said, you get home from a scene.
She said, you there's a scene that actually was in
your head that you plan to do the scene you did,
and then like there's some other scenario, Like there's three scenarios.

Speaker 3 (01:03:43):
Oh, there's a city that then you play back in
your head where you're like I should have done this.

Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
Oh, so that's one, and then there's the one that
actually happened, and then there's somebody that.

Speaker 3 (01:03:51):
Wants to stand on no, the one that, oh, like
you rehearsed and are like, this is what I think
is going to happen because I feel like, as an actor,
you have this article.

Speaker 1 (01:03:58):
Oh right, the actuality and the regret and the they same.
So that's what Housewives is like too. You get out
of them and you're like, wait, oh my god, I
could have. So it's not that different, you know what
I mean, It's not that different in that way. That's
why I think it was a fast You should listen
to the one with Elizabeth Moss. She's a big fan
of the podcast, and I guess of mine. I love
her and the way she broke it down, it was

(01:04:20):
really it was interesting. And we've made a lot of analogy.

Speaker 2 (01:04:25):
Yeah a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:04:26):
Yeah, So I like talking to I like talking to comedians,
but I like talking to actresses a lot. Wow, you
were We have a new like housewives therapist therapist, a
rewives therapist. We have a new in house I feel
like I'm doctor like Oprah and I've found doctor Phil.
We have like, we have an in house therapist now,
so this is amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:04:44):
I thank you for being vulnerable, and and I you know,
everyone can be. So it's hard what you guys have,
what you did, what people are doing. I just did
watch What Happens Live and Teresa, who's on the House
the New Jersey was there and he and you know,

(01:05:05):
her fiances and the audience and then you're watching the
the sort of the demise of her relationship with her
brother on television, and it was it's really intense. She
couldn't have been sweeter. It's like you think you know everybody,
but you don't know who they are.

Speaker 1 (01:05:22):
No, you put them, you put your you put your
sweet dog in a in a pen with four other dogs.
Is today we are breaking it down in a way
that's more not just clickbait and salacious. We're talking about
human interaction and people and dynamics. And that's why I
did the show, because I didn't want to do a
rewatch just trashing people and rehashing. I wanted to talk

(01:05:42):
about human behavior and the psychology of what's going on.
And that's why I thought I would make good out
of something that can be not great. So today I
don't think we're doing that that makes it like sociology,
you know versus just like let's just talk bad about
somebody for no reason.

Speaker 3 (01:05:56):
That's true, you don't. I never want to feel like
because I I don't know what it's like. I don't
put myself. But I also think that everybody signs.

Speaker 2 (01:06:03):
Up for it like they do.

Speaker 1 (01:06:04):
What we're talking about a medium. We're talking about a medium.
We're talking about interaction dynamics. That's why it's different.

Speaker 2 (01:06:10):
You think it's.

Speaker 3 (01:06:11):
Changed over time? Do you think totally became what it
was when it first began? And then I also think
with you too, becony. People saw you as this like
young girl who was a chef who had like who
was industrious and like hungry and had hustle, and you

(01:06:33):
were like you made an empire. It's really it's well,
it's foul, dude. It's thank you cool, You're thank you.
They came with me and to your answer your question,
I walked into something that was unknown. So what's the
has SNL changed in the first season, like after twenty
five years? So so the first season was me and
my own clothing and my own sweater and in my

(01:06:56):
studio apartment with Ikea, which they would never have cast me.

Speaker 1 (01:06:59):
Now, because you don't have to be rich. You just
have to appear rich. So that girl would never have
been cast. And I didn't have like fake rented cars
and fake marriages and all this stuff. I was just
a girl in a studio apartment. And I also didn't
know what I was walking into. So now all these
years later, you want to be cast. You're studying the medium,

(01:07:19):
You're throwing your leg on a dance for you're ripping
someone's weave off your flipp You're doing something because you've
seen crazy shit happen, and you have to top that.
It's not Kelly and I having and I'm up here,
you're down there. Conversation is not going to rate the
same way today, even though it was psychologically fascinating, it's
not the same because the game has changed. Everybody has
a preconceived notion. There's Twitter, there's Instagram, there's reunions with

(01:07:42):
gom with the wind outfits. It's not even remotely the same.
I would never walk into it now, that would not.
I mean I would because I'd need the money, but
it's not for me now, all right. I had the
best time, what a rollercoaster of the boat of the
dog of the life partner like this is a pine.

Speaker 3 (01:08:00):
I love that you didn't know that, Like you were
like when sam Pop is hit and you were like,
that was a great moment. That was like a free
moment of a surprise.

Speaker 1 (01:08:08):
You were like, well, and you know, I wasn't wanting
to know the end because I just wanted the guy,
whoever the guy was.

Speaker 2 (01:08:14):
And then I was like, wait, I know you and
he was like I know you? So now, yeah, amazing.
I love that you were like do you know me?
And I was like he does it? Well, you know why.

Speaker 3 (01:08:24):
You know why he knows you because he'd walk in
and he would see me watch it and if you can.
I know you hate to go to movies, but go
see this movie.

Speaker 1 (01:08:30):
And yes, I was supposed to be at the premiere
and I think something came up and it was too
much to.

Speaker 2 (01:08:35):
Do in that one day.

Speaker 3 (01:08:36):
But I was that you didn't want to leave your house.

Speaker 2 (01:08:39):
No, there was actually another thing.

Speaker 1 (01:08:40):
I had to leave the next day and go away,
and I was like, no, that was a reason to
leave because I was gonna get dressed up on the
cute and like see you in Sebastian.

Speaker 2 (01:08:47):
And Robert DeNiro. That was a reason to go. But
I didn't get to go.

Speaker 3 (01:08:51):
Bob is really incredible in the movie. And Kim Contrell
plays my mom like.

Speaker 2 (01:08:57):
And she's amazing in tracks. That's cool.

Speaker 3 (01:08:59):
That's Petrel And David Rashie plays my dad and he's
on succession and what you guys see on Succession he's Carl.
He's the blonde with the glasses, sort of bumbling who's
like trying to vibe.

Speaker 2 (01:09:12):
Oh, I love him. He's great.

Speaker 1 (01:09:14):
Yeah, that was the show is outrageous, awesome. Okay, I'm
going to see it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:19):
I can't wait.

Speaker 1 (01:09:19):
Congratulations, you're the best and loved your family and your animal.

Speaker 3 (01:09:24):
Thanks for being nice about it, of course, of course,
have a great Okay, by love, bye bye.

Speaker 2 (01:09:39):
That was an amazing conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:09:40):
And actresses are really great people to talk to about
this just because you're in the moment, you're in a scene,
it's emotional.

Speaker 2 (01:09:46):
How do you react? Is it real?

Speaker 3 (01:09:48):
Is it not? Like?

Speaker 2 (01:09:49):
It's wild?

Speaker 1 (01:09:50):
And she was unbelievable, and we got like a cameo
from Sam Rockwell, the amazing and interesting actor that I
had no idea they were in a relationship for sixteen years,
feels like a substantial relationship.

Speaker 2 (01:10:02):
And the dog and a lot went on really interesting,