Apolo Ohno, Olympic Speed Skater, Author: On deconstructing your biases and gaining new perspectives
February 10, 2022 • 39 mins
On deconstructing your biases and gaining new perspectives.
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
Oh my god, I'm one of these zoom people now.
So a couple of times I've zoomed on the go
because one time I wanted to take my daughter to
go school shopping and I had to do this zoom.
So I was in the car and then walking into
a store, and you know, the mute, the camera on,
(00:33):
camera off, It's like a whole I don't even know.
I'm sure there are rules, and I'm sure within companies
they have rules, and it's my company, so I don't
know any of the rules and I don't know how
it all works. But I was on a very very
important zoom with uh four business men, and I walked
into the Soho House. To be honest, out of the car.
(00:53):
I was doing the zoom in the car. It's like
a sprinter van, so I used it for business. So
I was doing the zoom in the car, and then
I had my next meeting, and this call was going
so much longer. So the Soho House is a private
club in New York and they don't allow cell phones.
So I was on the elevator trying to sneak it.
But they're really serious about and then you're ladd it's
(01:13):
sort of in the bathroom and this hallway so and
I also had to pee, to be honest, and so
they were all still talking and I wanted to go
as long as I possibly could, and so then I
um walked down the hall and I was dragging it out.
And then I went into the bathroom and Paul Paul,
my fiance, who I did not see this text, he
was on the call to and I saw him call
(01:35):
and I didn't answer because I don't know why. I
just didn't. I didn't think I realized who else was calling.
And then I get this text that says you should
go camera off and mute, and the phone was coming
through on the other line. And then he said, are
you in the bathroom? And I said because I knew
I was in the bathroom because it was me who
was in the bathroom. And I said, l O L.
(01:58):
How bad? He said, not amazing. This is his tex
I'm reading it. Not amazing, I said, L O L.
Now in caps he said, no private parts, which is
where the bar is, Like, oh, really, you mean I
didn't show my labia to the fucking businessman that we
were just talking to the good olds guys who are saying,
like hit him straight, Dan, when you go fucking play golf,
(02:18):
I mean no private parts. That's like, oh good, they
didn't see my So no one saw my vagina today,
that's amazing. What about my crack or my taint? Was
that shown to the fucking corporate public company, billionaire business guys?
Um so, I said, no private parts? He said, no
private parts? And I said I had to pee, Like
now pleading with Paul, like what the fund does he care?
(02:39):
He's seen my vagina, he knows it didn't happen today.
I go, I had to pee, can't use phone in
Soho house? He said, usually that's a camera off event.
I had to be Usually that's a camera off event.
I mean, I'm dying, like it's just and the moment
(03:00):
goes away quick. So it's okay, but like we really
can't take away. These guys did see me in the
bathroom peeing, but they didn't see private parts. So that's amazing.
It's just a ship show. Everything is a ship show.
Everything's different now, Like it's absolutely crazy. Who forgot? I
got him a fucking called twenty minutes ago. I didn't
(03:22):
even know anyone was like looking at me, you forget?
There's so many people talking in that box comes up.
I didn't know that, Like, I'm on like full tilt.
What an idiot. I don't know what else I've done.
Thank god Paul was there to tell me. I'd never know.
There must be twenty soups I've done not knowing. It's
so ridiculous. It's fucking pandemic, man. And also is it
(03:43):
even the pandemic anymore? I don't know if anyone's ever
going back to work again. My assistants think it's a
punishment to come into work. They think it's like they're
being punished for something like It's like, like, it's actually,
you guys were bad, So now you have to go
to work. You have to come to work. Yes, your bodies.
You have to your physical bodies. Wait what yeah, not
your yes, not on a computer. You have to bring
(04:03):
your body store. I'm sorry, you were naughty. You're on
the naughty list. It's started to come in not for
too long. Don't worry, and I apologize. I'm like back
in my day, when they didn't have avocado toast and kale.
We used to go to work. We used to get
in the car, we had to have an easy pass,
we had to actually know back in my day, my
real day, before they had Avocado coastick actually easy Pass
(04:26):
was before Avocado coast, Avocado toast, Brussels sprouts, Slaw and Kale.
We had quarters in the goddamn car and we had
you used tokens, so we had to go on the
subway with actual tokens. Or I think I was alive
when it was fucking change pre token. Wasn't there pre token,
pre fucking token man. So anyway, yeah, back when I
(04:50):
the horse and carriage days. Pre Kale, that's gonna be
the new thing. How old your daughter? She's pre k
pre Oh she's three, No, pre Kale, she's she she
was born four. Kale was born Okay, I was born
way after pre k is different. That's like a schooling system.
This is just like a sort of Greens cultural system.
What are your funny zoom stories. I presented an I
(05:11):
Heart Award with no pants. It's great. You're only like
you're saving money, like half a wardrobe. Now we only
have to have like half Actually we don't even have
to have a half a wardrobe. We could wear half tops.
Crop tops should be so fucking huge. They are because
the TikTok. But also because a zoom you wear it,
it's like half the fabric a crop top. No one's
gonna see my middrifts. Great start wearing bathing suits. My
(05:37):
guest today is legendary speed skater and the most decorated
American winter olympian, Apollo oh No. He's won eight Olympic
medals and was inducted into the US Olympic Hall of Fame.
Apollo is also a New York Times bestselling author, writing
many autobiographical novels about his vast experience, including up and
coming book Hard Pivot. He's a Dancing with the Stars
(05:57):
first place champion and now spends his time involved in
motivational speaking, philanthropy, and travel. With a wildly successful career
off and on the ice, you are sure to enjoy
today's show. Please welcome our guest. So your story is
(06:17):
very interesting. Obviously I've heard of you and know about you,
but I have some really interesting people on here that
have created businesses in a non traditional way, have definitely
uh created a brand within a unique industry or a
game changer. And I've had a couple of serious athletes on.
(06:38):
But one of the things that really stuck out to
me was that you're raised by a single father, and
we often hear single mother the single mother's story, and
I just I just thought that was compelling and and
really interesting about your whole child childhood and your story. Yeah,
it was. It was really different, and especially because my father, um,
(06:59):
you know, being a but he's immigrant, not speaking a
word of English, not really understanding basically how to raise me. Um,
but had that very strong tiger father. Uh kind of
call it like philosophical instruction so to speak. So like
the way that he really approached like two things one. Um,
anything in my life revolving around sport and academic was
(07:22):
always like at the highest level. So he just like
fundamentally so funny, like my dad fundamentally believed that I
could do anything literally anything you know, a basketball, you know,
by football, like whatever you want to do. Um. He
thought that that was something that was easily accessible for
me and there was like no limitations. And the same
thing for school, right just enrolled me into the absolute hardest,
(07:45):
um kind of curriculum in programs that were far beyond
my comprehension at the time. But I think it helped
push me at that same room but it sounds like
it was more energetic than being militant and grinding you
into doing something. It was sort of just that good
enough isn't good enough, like a state of excellence, but
it doesn't mean kill yourself and I'm forcing you to
do this. Yeah, I think that well, early on my
(08:07):
career there definitely was this like semblance of like this
idea that he could push me in a direction that
would I think it required me to be pushed um,
and it wasn't militant, But I don't know, like I
can tell your story about how like when I was
twelve years old, my dad used to wake me up
at like three thirty in the morning to go like
skate and empty school and church parking lots because you know,
(08:28):
there was no other time that he could take me
go practice roller skating. So he like tape this miner's
light to my helmet and then that's when he would
just sit there with like a clipboard with our like
Volkswagen Bug or Volkswagen Rabbit, like the diesel engine and
the lights on in the parking lot and there's like
no one there and this like empty church parking lot,
and I'm just like skating around. Yeah, Well, sometimes I
(08:49):
think that we're the product of our parents unresolved issues.
So is that because your dad was just working NonStop
and you think he wanted you to fulfill some sort
of dream that he didn't get to fulfill, or it
was just about I think it. Look, I think it
was probably both, right. I don't think my dad had
any aspirations in terms of like athletic achievement. I think
that because he went against the grain. You know, my
grandparents were pretty clear in terms of like saying to
(09:12):
my dad, we don't want you to leave Japan, we
want you to continue here and go to the you know,
kind of the the atypical process of of kind of
working for a company for like forty years and then
and then retiring. UM. And he went against the grain
and he came to the U S didn't speak a
word of English, didn't have any money in his pocket.
He just he had a struggle. And I think that
that probably drove him to be like a survivor in
(09:34):
many instances, especially because he probably wasn't welcome here at
the time when he arrived. UM. And then when I
was born, you know, everything flipped and he gave everything
to me every ounce and energy that he had, UM,
every dollar and never saw him actually ever purchased anything
for himself other than that was like a necessity up here,
necessity for like decades. Um and uh, just his like
(09:57):
full commitment. He you know, I think everyone who as kids.
I don't have kids yet, but um I can, I can.
I can imagine like when people have kids, they believe
their kids are just incredibly special, right, and they believe
that the best and they only see the best in
their kids. And my dad like really drilled that into
my head. Like when I say that, he told me
there was no limitations. This was every day in many
(10:20):
different life lessons and he would tell me so like
unresolved conflict. I don't know, maybe I think my dad
definitely had something to prove. I think growing up, my
father felt like I was at somewhat of a disadvantage
because you know, I didn't come from money. Um, I
didn't have time and the resources to buy the best equipment.
UM I didn't, you know, Like it wasn't like my
family was like highly intellectual or academics in any capacity.
(10:42):
And so he like effectively told me that I had
to work twice as hard like that was also drilled
and drilled to my head that I was basically somewhat
at a disadvantage, but that I could still achieve those things.
How do I put in the time, effort and work
and so you know, back then, obviously we didn't know
anything about sports science and sleep and rest and recover.
It was just all about this like hardcore belief of
(11:04):
just continue, keep struggling, keep pushing, you'll figure it out. Well,
there's two things I wanted to ask. One is about
how much is too much for kids and the pressure. Um,
(11:27):
then that's a sort of negative aspect that what is
perceived to be negative, what looks like it could be negative.
But then reading about your childhood, that being a law
your father didn't want you to be a latch key
kid and unrolling you in different sports programs, it's a
great It is a great babysitter for kids, as I
think about it, if you can't, if you have to work,
(11:47):
and don't you know, want your kids just to be
home eating cheetos, respectfully, the cheetos, watching uh, you know,
garbage television. What a great thing for your kids to
be sort of working towards something, and even if they
don't become an Olympian, just the sucture and the discipline.
And I want to know if that structure and discipline
is all upside or you know, what are the sort
of ramifications of that both sides of that equation. Well, look,
(12:12):
every human that goes through life is going to have
these conditioning mechanisms that create behavioral consistency and changed. Right,
So psychologically, typically, most of the way that we act
in our day to day lives today in your plus
years on this planet, are typically derived from experiences or
very few experiences that have occurred in your life that
(12:33):
leads you to believe that you are biased towards a
certain response and reaction, and so like how much pressure
is too much pressure? I think pressure is incredible. I
think it's incredibly insightful. I think it's absolutely critical. And
the same thing with losing and failing and not hitting
your dreams and not getting what you feel like you
deserve and you desire the the insights derived from that
(12:55):
is a really important part of growth. And anyone who
has lived an incredible life at least extra only from
our view, has never had an easy life. It's always
been about struggle and strife and perseverance and going through
those things. Now, I agree, as we go through life,
right and as we have this progression around, how do
we identify the new characters of strength in today's modern era? Right? So,
(13:19):
and pressure not being cruel and not you know, just
being mean and badgering even in the work a workplace,
but being you can be strong and you can be
kind at the same time. You can be strong, you
can be kind, you can be incredibly resilient, and you
can also be human. And I think that is that
wholesomeness that I think we're seeing more transparency and open
(13:41):
discussion about is very healthy. Now, the flip side of
that is we go too much on one side of
the spectrum where we don't allow for you know, more
wind to make good timber so to speak. Right, Um,
the stronger the wind, the stronger the trees, so to speak.
So we need those types of callous environments in order
to fortify not only physiologically but psychologically. Right. When you
(14:05):
have pressure, that pressure allows the human experience to do
extraordinary things and either by pure default and you have
no choice for injury, some kind of tragic failure loss
that you're facing and you have to bounce back, or
it's because you deeply desire to win and you want
to innovate or whatever that might be right. And so
there's always these things, and I think it's very we
(14:27):
have to be very careful today about there is this
line that we don't want to cross. We don't want
to push kids so much to say like, look, you
need to be a machine and you need to just
figure out everything on your own. But I think the
kids can have that element, right that is there, that's
a level that they can utilize, this obsessiveness that once
they harness that in short spurts, is extremely powerful. But
(14:50):
that if that becomes all encompassing and consuming, I'm speaking
from experience here, it can be highly internally toxic, very
self deprecating and of defeating. And oftentimes you live in
this era where you actually start to limit your growth
versus actually exude and be that person who you potentially
to be. You're deteriorating. It's it's it's degenerating. What about
(15:13):
who's the gymnast who who left the event? Her team
was so mad it was such a big right, So
what about that, Like, is that now that we're looking
at that, you know, months later however long it's been later,
I blacked out on time. But uh, is that too
much pressure? Is that bailing on your team? Is that
just knowing your body? Like? What about that? I think
it's very complex, right, I think, first and foremost, um,
(15:37):
when we look at Olympic athletes, and I think making
this statements important, we tend to export our belief on
what they should and what they represent right right now, Like,
we have no idea what's going on in her head,
the type of trauma. I mean, we kind of know
because they were open about this in this entire scandal
that existed that was horrific across those girls in gymnastics. UM,
(16:00):
and these girls carry that weight with them, and they
carry that trauma with them, And so we don't know
the complexities and the texture of how this person is
digesting and living in that moment. The the external pressure
of America saying it doesn't matter that you went through
those things, you still have to perform for us. I
don't know if that's okay either, And so you've got
this delicate balance of When I first watched, I think
(16:22):
like full transparency. I was like, because I'm conditioned in
a certain way, I saw I was like, hey, that
doesn't seem fair to her teammates. But then I you know,
I'm I'm, I'm I feel like i'm i'm hopefully growing
and getting some maturity. And so I said, wait, wait
a second, like what am I missing? Why do I
believe that to be a truth. I actually don't know, Simone. Um,
(16:43):
I respect her immensely, and I said, oh, I'm actually
wrong in this belief of exporting what I think happens
to be true. And this is like identity politics in
a nutshell, right, what was happening in our country with
the with the politicized nature of everything, also celebrity celebrity,
what we think people are doing right and wrong. I
was just talking about it before, about people flaunting their divorces,
(17:03):
flaunting their relationships, like I was talking about that today,
Like we think we know what somebody shouldn't shouldn't do.
It's similar, it's similar, um, but uh business to me.
So I I'm I'm athletic. I mean I snowboard, I
you know, ice skate, not professionally obviously, I've hiked fifteen
miles in my life and talked about it for fifteen
(17:25):
years since. Uh, but I know that feeling when you
just have to pull from within to finish something, to
do something. I'm definitely not an athlete, I don't, but
I know that feeling and that and I really know
that feeling in business, like you just everything's wrong, it's
going wrong, but you just you gotta collect yourself, get
you can't go through the window. You've tried the door.
(17:46):
You gotta go in another way. Like I do see
a parallel there with business and and sports and just
not sports, just being tremendously competitive as an athlete, where
you just gotta like regroup, collect your self, take care
of yourself, and attack it again for another day. And
I read about you when you weren't doing so well.
First of all, it sounds like as a kid you
(18:08):
had a natural ability and didn't know necessarily what road
you were on. And then you just we're winning. I mean,
you're doing really well. It seems like it came fairly
easy to you as a competitive person. But then you
hit some roadbumps, like you weren't just winning the way
that you were when you started, like not beginner's luck,
but like you just hit it right in the beginning,
(18:28):
and then later it caught up with you not either
practicing or taking it seriously. So what what was that
whole journey like a mustering you know it up and
and and and regrouping and then going back in. Yeah.
I mean, look, those those struggles and triumphs associated with
sport are are kind of apparent across my career. Especially
early on. I was this kind of thought about as
(18:49):
like this phenomen athlete, this prodigy for the sport um
and I didn't recognize it. I didn't have that self
confidence and belief. Um I just was kind of having
fun on the sport. And so when fun was moved
at the age of fourteen and fifteen, after I had
won my first trials and I was technically the number
one athlete in the US, UM I now was doing
this professionally and professionally as around grown men and women
(19:10):
who dedicated their lives away from their family to pursue
their Olympic dream and path, And so it was no
longer fun. It's not excuse, right because I now I
was training with the national team and I had earned
that right. But I do think there was something there
where um I now was put in this environment where
I just kind of went through the motions because I
didn't enjoy it anymore, and that was really really tough.
I didn't understand resilience and hard work and discipline and
(19:32):
all these things that compound over time could really really
be in terms of a result. And my dad shown
me some really tough love associated with that, right like
basically after not making the Olympic team in n Um,
finishing dead last those at those trials, to my dad
then shipping me or you know, basically driving me to
this remote cabin in the Pacific Northwest and leaving me
(19:53):
there alone at the age of fifteen to figure it
out on my own and basically give me the ultimatum
of Paula, you need you to really identify with what
you want to do in your life. I don't care
if it's academics, it doesn't matter to me good sport,
but your habituation that is being created, this behavior that
I see can be potentially patternistic, and we don't want
that to be something that you can normalize. So my
(20:14):
dad had this vision overall, not of me being this
great athlete, but he just wanted me to be able
to figure out how life will slap you down or
give you these challenges and if you shy away from them,
or if you cower away, Um, that's going to create
some type of conditioning that is in the opposite direction
of what you actually ultimately want no matter what you do, right,
it sounds like the game what happens with success Even
(20:38):
in business, as we were talking about, the game moves
pretty quick and then the game has changed. So you
had the game had changed, you didn't even really realize it.
It could be somebody at home bacon cookies and now
all of a sudden they're professional and it they've opened
a bakery and they're like, wait, this is not just
the cute everybody thinks I'm so cute that I make
cute cookies and likes them. Now I gotta deal with this.
So the game changes and then you have to reshift, pivot,
(21:00):
and you know, regroup and then it's a new game.
So how did you make the new game fun? And
by the way, it's not all fun like it could be.
It's work. You're just a little young, but it's it
is work, And so how did you make it that
you wanted to do it? You know, if you're fourteen,
the game changed, it's now sort of business a little bit,
so how does that, you know, reshift. I think it's
(21:22):
a part of that is just kind of mustering up
this belief that even though you don't know what the
outcome is going to be, you are still going to
forge ahead, uh to be and show up fully as
your best self. I get that it's process over prize,
which is what you say. It's this process, and it's
this marathon, and it's this one golf hole and you're
just doing this one thing at a time, and and
(21:42):
if you do everything to the best of your ability
every day, whether it's sports or otherwise, it'll take you
somewhere great. I think that's part of it, right, I
mean for sure, I think like we in this country,
like we love to celebrate champions and we never talked
about the people who got second third. We just don't.
That's been our conditioning that now so um so, that
has been ingrained in all of our beliefs since we
(22:04):
were very young, even in the way that cartoons and
movies and film has been shown to us. And so
we believe that, and so we have subscribed now to
tie our happiness directly to a result, which is great
for competition, which is great to keep track of score, um,
it is not probably the most holistic and wholesome way
to value or look at your own personal life. And
(22:26):
so if we can look at our life as a
series of chapters and understand that each chapter, no matter
we feel like we deserve a different result or not,
we have to surrender to that chapter after it has
been completed, and then we have to move on to
the next one. That's really hard to do because we're competitive.
Like you know, if I don't get what I want,
I'm angry, I'm upset, I'm confused, I'm frustrated. And that's
(22:49):
good if you can harness that in terms of recalibrating
for the next time, but if you stay dwelling itself.
So that's totally my whole life. But it's great, it's
very I find that the it that a failure when
I've had a real failure, I didn't get something, or
even back in the day when I came second on
the Apprentice, right you you you get sad, you get bombed,
you are depressed. But that regrouping and that like brushing
(23:11):
yourself off, that's very empowering. And that's I think what
you're talking about. That's when like all the good stuff happens.
We screwed it up. It could be a business. We
screwed the whole day up. Everything sucked. But you know what,
let's get excited for tomorrow. And I like people around
me that are like that because it's I know people
who never get excited about something. They say, I'm not
getting excited until I know it's for sure. I get
(23:31):
excited about everything if it's if we if we ship
the bet and it sucks, I still got excited. So
now I got excited and it sucked, versus not being
excited and it's sucking. It's better to be excited and
it's sucking. Yeah, And I think, look, look, life is
super short, right we we we've been given this gift
of eighties six thousand, four or seconds in a day.
I say this often we lose most of those two
a spiraling down world kind of negative self talk mechanism
(23:55):
that is so critical that we don't even allow ourselves
to be present. We're thinking about some think in the
future that we need to hit, and we're kind of
operating based on those kind of traumas or micro traumas
or failures that have happened in the past, and so
we're like never really here and we're never really there,
but we're living in the past. It's just like weird mechanism.
And so what I have found is that there's nothing
(24:16):
but during sports your present. During sports your present. But
I also think that there's nothing wrong, by the way,
with having that and knowing as long as you know
that you're on the treadmill, so to speak, right, and
you can get off the treadmill at times. Right a
catalyst or a lever or an incident that happened in
your life can be perhaps one of the most powerful
emotional tools that supersedes anything else. Education, physical ability, good looks,
(24:40):
whatever those things are, they mean nothing. When you see
a man or woman on fire, you know what I mean?
Like when they are, it's it's incredible. Yes, but you
said something that made me think about meditation. People think
that meditation is supposed to be absent of worry and stress.
It's supposed to be sort of just identifying it. And
they say, if you don't like people worry, Oh god,
I was thinking about my list when I was trying
(25:01):
to meditate, and then they they did it wrong. If
you lean into what you were thinking about, usually it
will dissipate versus if you run away from it, it
will chase you. So I think it's kind of what
you're saying, like it's okay to be not present then
to be worried. But I guess if you identify that,
then you're ultimately being more present. Yeah, it's um, you know,
I mean like deeply rooted in Buddhist philosophy. Is this
(25:22):
like belief of like if you seek happiness you'll never
get it, right, Like exactly what we're saying, the same thing, right,
That's what I'm saying, except what it is. And then
you it's a lot less pressure. We're always thinking we're
doing it wrong or this I should be relaxing more.
I shouldn't be worrying about this right now. You know,
you're at a spa and you're thinking about something and
you're like, damn, I'm supposed to be relaxing. It's not
relaxing to be thinking you're supposed to be relaxing. Um.
(25:44):
So you're an entrepreneur, you're a business person. You uh
talk about it, you write about it. So, um, was
that is that part of your sort of striving for excellence?
What what was your understanding of business and money as
a child. I know you said you're father was certainly
not someone who cared about money. You wrote you wrote
that it's a tool. But how did you become someone too?
(26:08):
I guess financially in business wise. Extend your minutes of
athletic greatness. You know, not to say that you you
were fifteen minutes. But we all have a moment when
it's the biggest. So I'm asking about the extension plan.
My moment was like twenty years ago. It's crazy, I
didn't say that. And and that's a realization that like
at some point in your life, what you did in
the past is not the most happening thing anymore. And
(26:30):
that's just that's life. You have to expect that, and
you have to figure out, um, what is it gonna
be fulfilling and important? That part of the reinvention, and
you know, part of the reason why I wrote this
book Hard Pivot is really deeply rude in this belief
that we all were faced these types of changes, either
by force, by nature or whatever it might be. And
the more prepared that we can be to embrace those
changes and those challenges, the better outcome that we will
(26:53):
actually be able to experience. So from my first identity,
which is the Olympic athlete, I had to kind of
dissolve that, so to speak, and I didn't know how
to do that, like twelve years ago, so I basically
ran away and ran away, meaning like I went to
the furthest place on the actual planet physically, which was
in Asia, and I started pursuing businesses that I had
no idea what I was doing, but I was ambitious
(27:13):
and a part of this was this kind of deep
rooted feeling that I had to keep moving that was
really really important. I knew that I couldn't remain stagnant,
and I also knew that my routine and what got
me to be a great Olympic athlete was simply the
attributes now the natural skill sets and talents that I
was given um from the universe, from this, from whatever
(27:33):
I have um they you know, wearing tights and going
in circles in business means nothing like no one actually
really cares and most people don't want to go in
circles anyway. But that was that was what I perfected
when I was in the sport, and so I moved
from that into this arena of saying Okay, Like I
have to stop saying no to everything else, which I
did my entire life. I said no to everything that
(27:54):
didn't involve me being the best in the Olympic path.
And then I started saying yes to everything, and it
didn't matter what it was. I wanted to curate these
experiences because my natural curiosity became a superpower. I understood
that I had advanced so much in my personal life
and when in regards to my sport. But outside of that,
(28:15):
I was a baby. I was a kid. I was
I was like nine, you know, I was like whatever
was going on? Fifteen? Like I literally was so stunted.
And so you can imagine like no real collegiate or
university experience in a dorm room setting, or learning, no
internships in any capacity, not ever working for a company,
not understanding business. And I'm starting but but I'm seven
(28:35):
years older than anyone else potentially that would be in
the same position, right, And so I've got these credible
life experiences and I've got zero business experience, And so
there's this emotional feeling of like I don't want to
feel stupid in this room. Now I can get into
any room that I want in the world. The problem
is after the first kind of you know, hey, great
(28:55):
to meet you. My son or daughter is a big fan,
why are you here again? Like like what actually you?
And so that chip on the shoulder became a really
strong motivational tool. That's amazing, you know, and I read
a little bit. We have similar principles. First of all,
I wrote a book called The Place of Yes but
um and talking about the pandemic and thinking about the pandemic.
(29:15):
It's sort of I think I've read in some of
your the press about you, just about the way that
the world has shifted now and there are different things
to grab onto. Like so many people are worried about
the fact that, oh that change, and I see it
that way, But I see that as a total opportunity
in business like this the snowboots was shaken. Everything's upside down,
(29:40):
and so there are so many new pockets for success,
so many new ways to be successful and entrepreneurial. And um,
how have you changed the way you're doing business or
what what's happening that's different now based on this time? Yeah,
So you know, I I spend most of my time now,
um in venture, meaning like we find great company needs,
(30:00):
analyze the data, and then we invest in those founders
and support them along their journey UM throughout the investment
life cycle of that company UM. And so what we've
found is that many times when I meet young founders
who are talking about a new particular niche, business, a sector,
a vertical that I believe doesn't need to exist and
(30:23):
is unimportant because I don't watch or subscribe or interact
with those types of protocols or projects wherever the may be.
And so an exercise that we've all done is like,
what am I missing? Why am I missing this? And
there's a very famous UM venture capitalist that's based in
San Francisco that had passed I believe on pinterest UM
(30:45):
at the at the earliest stage, and it would have
like returned his whole fund, meaning like he would have
had multiples and it was would have been a huge
home run for him. And then you know, like a
couple of months later after he comes back home from
work and his wife is talking about this like new
this website Pinterest, and he's like showing all these things
and he's like, oh, I am not a fifty three
year old woman at the time, this is the time
(31:07):
and obviously the demographic has changed immensely, and so he's
got this in the in the background of like his
like his office. It basically reminds him. He's like, Hey,
the reason why you don't get it is because this
is not a part of your experiences, whether that's in
video games, whether that's in you know, Web three, in
crypto or n f T s are just a crazy
and that could be scared because you have to learn it. Yeah,
(31:27):
that could be Jessica's or turned down Uber. She was
one of the people they asked in the beginning, the
girl from Gossip Girl, Jessica's Or. They asked her in
the beginning to be part of Uber. She was embarrassed
to tell me. I'm like, it's part of your journey,
but that I I want to cry thinking about it.
There's a ton of those stories, right, Like we have
stories like all across the board, and so many different
investments that would have returned like ten thou ex returns right,
(31:50):
but then it's neither here nor there, right. I think
the only way that we learned from that is to
remove ourselves. This is a part of the why the
book is important, is that you go through lie if
in this conditioning of your upbringing and your belief on
how the world works and should work. And the more
that you subscribe to that is powerful and strong, and
it gives you identity to align with, it gives you
(32:13):
the tribalism around. I missed the days and we didn't
have cell phones and people went to concerts and they
really experienced them, or in the Olympics and they really
watched them and they weren't on their phones and tweeting
and instagram and like, there's all that right, and and
that's fine. But I think from a business perspective, the
ones who are able to subscribe and have the foresight
(32:34):
to say, Okay, I'm missing something, and maybe I don't
believe in it, but I can understand how this new
technology communication or way that people are are engaging with
each other is going to be something spectacular and I
need to buy into that or you lose an opportunity.
(33:02):
So I have no idea what you're going to say
about this, uh question, what percentage are you lucky and
what percentage smart? I'm for sure not very smart, So
I'm gonna say I'm heavily skewed on the lucky side. Look,
I look I believe that I have been, like really
gifted an incredible life amidst all the challenges and hardships
(33:24):
and failures. Like I just I don't think that I
was originally intended or supposed to be here, or maybe
I was, but I just I feel like things have
happened in my life that are incredible. The people that
I have met, the individuals, the stories, just the a
the access be, the actual experiences, the things that I
have seen, the rooms that I have been in, the experiences,
(33:47):
the Olympic Games, um, the chances that I've been given,
whether I win or lose, whatever, but like the chance
I've been given, like my life is incredible, and so
I feel that's that's lucky. I fund to believe that,
And I'm okay believing that. Do I believe that I
have to do the hard work, and the work is
the actual shortcut of course, like that's the standard metric
(34:08):
for how I operate and live. But not for a
second do I ever believe that, Um, it is because
I was more intelligent or smarter than in your athlete.
I think I was really lucky. I was lucky to
be able to something was instigated in me to want
to do more than other athletes. I don't know what
that is. I don't know if that's my father. I'm
lucky to have a I mean, like I have a
(34:29):
dad singing about in household. But my dad was incredible,
Like he's just like every day I can't believe like that,
my this is my dad, And I hope that one
day I could be the same father to my kids.
He was to me like just a semblance of that. Well,
it's funny because I was just thinking, you're you may
be one of the people that just actually is very
very lucky. But I mean, but what's funny is that
(34:51):
somebody's very lucky if they're smart. I just thought of
that for the first time. Like if you're if you
happen to be really smart, then you happen to be
really lucky. I mean, in sport, we used to have
this saying where you know, short track speeds getting into
sport where you need luck like you absolutely need it. Um.
But then there's also a saying that says like make
your own luck. You put yourself in the right and
(35:12):
the best possible process and timing to where like you
can actually get that's the preparation prep being prepared for
when those fish calm, having your net and wait to
be lucky like that is the wrong move. That is nothing.
Thank you being prepared to be lucky, UM, Rose and
thorn of your career. The Rose was my first ever
(35:34):
Olympic final in sport. My first ever Olympic final in
Salt Lake City about twenty years ago, UM in two
thousand two, where I intended and I was in the
lead to win this race. I was favored to win
this race. I was like on the cover sports, like
all these things. I was highly hyped as a as
as an Olympic athlete. UM, and I didn't and I
got silver. I had fallen. UM, I cut my leg.
(35:57):
That was the rose because of the edible life lessons
that it gave me later on life, and that was
to get back up. I can't control the outcome. When
you believe that you are deserving of a particular result
and you don't get it, you have a choice to
perceive that as I'm going to live the rest of
my life angry and bitter, or I'm going to take
this as a gift, like as I said, and I'm
(36:18):
lucky enough and I'm grateful enough to have represented the
US and have won this medal. Is it the color
that I originally wanted to know? But that's okay. I
actually I wouldn't change the color today. I wanted to
be silver because of what it represented in so many ways. Um.
And the thorn that could be called that could be
a that could be called your silver rose. Yeah, my
silver rose. Um. I like that, I would say, like
(36:40):
because of my you know, I didn't grow up with
a mom in my life, right, I had mother figures
so to speak, like godmothers and people like that, but
I didn't have I think that that tenderness and empathy
I didn't get. I got no that did not have anything, um.
(37:01):
And so I was raised in a way where I
think it really affected. I think it still does affect
the way that I approach relationships. And it's been really
really hard, um, really really hard, and uh, I'm getting
better at it. But I think that my not like
the way that I naturally am in a relationship is
(37:21):
it's tough. Um. And again like I'm super lucky because
I have met incredible women in my life that have
taught me so much, and one of them is is this.
You know, my my current is is Bianca. Um, she's
just she's been so incredible in so many ways. But UM,
just like having someone to kind of basically re teach
me this is the stuff that I should have been
(37:43):
taught like thirty years ago. Well, allowing yourself to be
loved is not that easy for certain people, especially you're
on the you know, you're on the road, you're doing
this and you're goal oriented, and it's hard to stop
down and just be porous and allow yourself to be loved.
So I really do understand that that makes perfect sense
based on your background. So that's good. So that you're
doing that now, that's amazing trying to do the work. Yeah,
(38:04):
that's awesome. This was so wonderful to talk to you.
I really and I really do love talking to athletes.
I spoke to Maria Sharapova and Lindsey Vaughan and Gabrielle Reason.
It's just like a yeah, there's it's a very interesting
type of person, just like a very solid person. So
I'm from my experience here. So I've enjoyed this very much.
(38:25):
I appreciate you. Thank you, Yeah, thank you, I appreciate it.
Good luck. The book is hard, pivot. I just realized
the double entendres. So I love the name and I'm
excited for you. So congratulations, and I hope this helps.
But it was a great conversation. I loved talking to Apollo.
What an interesting conversation. He is so strong, so solid,
(38:46):
so sage uh. And I've really liked talking to the
serious competitive athletes. I find that to be a gift,
and I'm so honored and grateful that I've gotten to
share with you some of their wisdom for really striving
and battling the odds and still thriving and succeeding, because
(39:08):
that's a real that's just a real challenging road. I mean,
it's just you do it or you don't. There's no
gray in sports. If you want or you lost. So
I think it's been really interesting speaking to the competitive athletes.
So I appreciate you, rate, review and subscribe. Another wonderful day,
(39:28):
and I'm just so grateful, So thank you. Have a
good day. Just b is hosted by me Bethany Frankel.
Just be as a production of Be Real Productions, I
Heart Radio and Blue Duck Media. Are EPs are Morgan Levois,
Antonio Enriquez, and Kara hit to Catch more moments from
the show, follow us on Instagram and just be with
Bethany
Oh my god, I'm one of these zoom people now.
So a couple of times I've zoomed on the go
because one time I wanted to take my daughter to
go school shopping and I had to do this zoom.
So I was in the car and then walking into
a store, and you know, the mute, the camera on,
(00:33):
camera off, It's like a whole I don't even know.
I'm sure there are rules, and I'm sure within companies
they have rules, and it's my company, so I don't
know any of the rules and I don't know how
it all works. But I was on a very very
important zoom with uh four business men, and I walked
into the Soho House. To be honest, out of the car.
(00:53):
I was doing the zoom in the car. It's like
a sprinter van, so I used it for business. So
I was doing the zoom in the car, and then
I had my next meeting, and this call was going
so much longer. So the Soho House is a private
club in New York and they don't allow cell phones.
So I was on the elevator trying to sneak it.
But they're really serious about and then you're ladd it's
(01:13):
sort of in the bathroom and this hallway so and
I also had to pee, to be honest, and so
they were all still talking and I wanted to go
as long as I possibly could, and so then I
um walked down the hall and I was dragging it out.
And then I went into the bathroom and Paul Paul,
my fiance, who I did not see this text, he
was on the call to and I saw him call
(01:35):
and I didn't answer because I don't know why. I
just didn't. I didn't think I realized who else was calling.
And then I get this text that says you should
go camera off and mute, and the phone was coming
through on the other line. And then he said, are
you in the bathroom? And I said because I knew
I was in the bathroom because it was me who
was in the bathroom. And I said, l O L.
(01:58):
How bad? He said, not amazing. This is his tex
I'm reading it. Not amazing, I said, L O L.
Now in caps he said, no private parts, which is
where the bar is, Like, oh, really, you mean I
didn't show my labia to the fucking businessman that we
were just talking to the good olds guys who are saying,
like hit him straight, Dan, when you go fucking play golf,
(02:18):
I mean no private parts. That's like, oh good, they
didn't see my So no one saw my vagina today,
that's amazing. What about my crack or my taint? Was
that shown to the fucking corporate public company, billionaire business guys?
Um so, I said, no private parts? He said, no
private parts? And I said I had to pee, Like
now pleading with Paul, like what the fund does he care?
(02:39):
He's seen my vagina, he knows it didn't happen today.
I go, I had to pee, can't use phone in
Soho house? He said, usually that's a camera off event.
I had to be Usually that's a camera off event.
I mean, I'm dying, like it's just and the moment
(03:00):
goes away quick. So it's okay, but like we really
can't take away. These guys did see me in the
bathroom peeing, but they didn't see private parts. So that's amazing.
It's just a ship show. Everything is a ship show.
Everything's different now, Like it's absolutely crazy. Who forgot? I
got him a fucking called twenty minutes ago. I didn't
(03:22):
even know anyone was like looking at me, you forget?
There's so many people talking in that box comes up.
I didn't know that, Like, I'm on like full tilt.
What an idiot. I don't know what else I've done.
Thank god Paul was there to tell me. I'd never know.
There must be twenty soups I've done not knowing. It's
so ridiculous. It's fucking pandemic, man. And also is it
(03:43):
even the pandemic anymore? I don't know if anyone's ever
going back to work again. My assistants think it's a
punishment to come into work. They think it's like they're
being punished for something like It's like, like, it's actually,
you guys were bad, So now you have to go
to work. You have to come to work. Yes, your bodies.
You have to your physical bodies. Wait what yeah, not
your yes, not on a computer. You have to bring
(04:03):
your body store. I'm sorry, you were naughty. You're on
the naughty list. It's started to come in not for
too long. Don't worry, and I apologize. I'm like back
in my day, when they didn't have avocado toast and kale.
We used to go to work. We used to get
in the car, we had to have an easy pass,
we had to actually know back in my day, my
real day, before they had Avocado coastick actually easy Pass
(04:26):
was before Avocado coast, Avocado toast, Brussels sprouts, Slaw and Kale.
We had quarters in the goddamn car and we had
you used tokens, so we had to go on the
subway with actual tokens. Or I think I was alive
when it was fucking change pre token. Wasn't there pre token,
pre fucking token man. So anyway, yeah, back when I
(04:50):
the horse and carriage days. Pre Kale, that's gonna be
the new thing. How old your daughter? She's pre k
pre Oh she's three, No, pre Kale, she's she she
was born four. Kale was born Okay, I was born
way after pre k is different. That's like a schooling system.
This is just like a sort of Greens cultural system.
What are your funny zoom stories. I presented an I
(05:11):
Heart Award with no pants. It's great. You're only like
you're saving money, like half a wardrobe. Now we only
have to have like half Actually we don't even have
to have a half a wardrobe. We could wear half tops.
Crop tops should be so fucking huge. They are because
the TikTok. But also because a zoom you wear it,
it's like half the fabric a crop top. No one's
gonna see my middrifts. Great start wearing bathing suits. My
(05:37):
guest today is legendary speed skater and the most decorated
American winter olympian, Apollo oh No. He's won eight Olympic
medals and was inducted into the US Olympic Hall of Fame.
Apollo is also a New York Times bestselling author, writing
many autobiographical novels about his vast experience, including up and
coming book Hard Pivot. He's a Dancing with the Stars
(05:57):
first place champion and now spends his time involved in
motivational speaking, philanthropy, and travel. With a wildly successful career
off and on the ice, you are sure to enjoy
today's show. Please welcome our guest. So your story is
(06:17):
very interesting. Obviously I've heard of you and know about you,
but I have some really interesting people on here that
have created businesses in a non traditional way, have definitely
uh created a brand within a unique industry or a
game changer. And I've had a couple of serious athletes on.
(06:38):
But one of the things that really stuck out to
me was that you're raised by a single father, and
we often hear single mother the single mother's story, and
I just I just thought that was compelling and and
really interesting about your whole child childhood and your story. Yeah,
it was. It was really different, and especially because my father, um,
(06:59):
you know, being a but he's immigrant, not speaking a
word of English, not really understanding basically how to raise me. Um,
but had that very strong tiger father. Uh kind of
call it like philosophical instruction so to speak. So like
the way that he really approached like two things one. Um,
anything in my life revolving around sport and academic was
(07:22):
always like at the highest level. So he just like
fundamentally so funny, like my dad fundamentally believed that I
could do anything literally anything you know, a basketball, you know,
by football, like whatever you want to do. Um. He
thought that that was something that was easily accessible for
me and there was like no limitations. And the same
thing for school, right just enrolled me into the absolute hardest,
(07:45):
um kind of curriculum in programs that were far beyond
my comprehension at the time. But I think it helped
push me at that same room but it sounds like
it was more energetic than being militant and grinding you
into doing something. It was sort of just that good
enough isn't good enough, like a state of excellence, but
it doesn't mean kill yourself and I'm forcing you to
do this. Yeah, I think that well, early on my
(08:07):
career there definitely was this like semblance of like this
idea that he could push me in a direction that
would I think it required me to be pushed um,
and it wasn't militant, But I don't know, like I
can tell your story about how like when I was
twelve years old, my dad used to wake me up
at like three thirty in the morning to go like
skate and empty school and church parking lots because you know,
(08:28):
there was no other time that he could take me
go practice roller skating. So he like tape this miner's
light to my helmet and then that's when he would
just sit there with like a clipboard with our like
Volkswagen Bug or Volkswagen Rabbit, like the diesel engine and
the lights on in the parking lot and there's like
no one there and this like empty church parking lot,
and I'm just like skating around. Yeah, Well, sometimes I
(08:49):
think that we're the product of our parents unresolved issues.
So is that because your dad was just working NonStop
and you think he wanted you to fulfill some sort
of dream that he didn't get to fulfill, or it
was just about I think it. Look, I think it
was probably both, right. I don't think my dad had
any aspirations in terms of like athletic achievement. I think
that because he went against the grain. You know, my
grandparents were pretty clear in terms of like saying to
(09:12):
my dad, we don't want you to leave Japan, we
want you to continue here and go to the you know,
kind of the the atypical process of of kind of
working for a company for like forty years and then
and then retiring. UM. And he went against the grain
and he came to the U S didn't speak a
word of English, didn't have any money in his pocket.
He just he had a struggle. And I think that
that probably drove him to be like a survivor in
(09:34):
many instances, especially because he probably wasn't welcome here at
the time when he arrived. UM. And then when I
was born, you know, everything flipped and he gave everything
to me every ounce and energy that he had, UM,
every dollar and never saw him actually ever purchased anything
for himself other than that was like a necessity up here,
necessity for like decades. Um and uh, just his like
(09:57):
full commitment. He you know, I think everyone who as kids.
I don't have kids yet, but um I can, I can.
I can imagine like when people have kids, they believe
their kids are just incredibly special, right, and they believe
that the best and they only see the best in
their kids. And my dad like really drilled that into
my head. Like when I say that, he told me
there was no limitations. This was every day in many
(10:20):
different life lessons and he would tell me so like
unresolved conflict. I don't know, maybe I think my dad
definitely had something to prove. I think growing up, my
father felt like I was at somewhat of a disadvantage
because you know, I didn't come from money. Um, I
didn't have time and the resources to buy the best equipment.
UM I didn't, you know, Like it wasn't like my
family was like highly intellectual or academics in any capacity.
(10:42):
And so he like effectively told me that I had
to work twice as hard like that was also drilled
and drilled to my head that I was basically somewhat
at a disadvantage, but that I could still achieve those things.
How do I put in the time, effort and work
and so you know, back then, obviously we didn't know
anything about sports science and sleep and rest and recover.
It was just all about this like hardcore belief of
(11:04):
just continue, keep struggling, keep pushing, you'll figure it out. Well,
there's two things I wanted to ask. One is about
how much is too much for kids and the pressure. Um,
(11:27):
then that's a sort of negative aspect that what is
perceived to be negative, what looks like it could be negative.
But then reading about your childhood, that being a law
your father didn't want you to be a latch key
kid and unrolling you in different sports programs, it's a
great It is a great babysitter for kids, as I
think about it, if you can't, if you have to work,
(11:47):
and don't you know, want your kids just to be
home eating cheetos, respectfully, the cheetos, watching uh, you know,
garbage television. What a great thing for your kids to
be sort of working towards something, and even if they
don't become an Olympian, just the sucture and the discipline.
And I want to know if that structure and discipline
is all upside or you know, what are the sort
of ramifications of that both sides of that equation. Well, look,
(12:12):
every human that goes through life is going to have
these conditioning mechanisms that create behavioral consistency and changed. Right,
So psychologically, typically, most of the way that we act
in our day to day lives today in your plus
years on this planet, are typically derived from experiences or
very few experiences that have occurred in your life that
(12:33):
leads you to believe that you are biased towards a
certain response and reaction, and so like how much pressure
is too much pressure? I think pressure is incredible. I
think it's incredibly insightful. I think it's absolutely critical. And
the same thing with losing and failing and not hitting
your dreams and not getting what you feel like you
deserve and you desire the the insights derived from that
(12:55):
is a really important part of growth. And anyone who
has lived an incredible life at least extra only from
our view, has never had an easy life. It's always
been about struggle and strife and perseverance and going through
those things. Now, I agree, as we go through life,
right and as we have this progression around, how do
we identify the new characters of strength in today's modern era? Right? So,
(13:19):
and pressure not being cruel and not you know, just
being mean and badgering even in the work a workplace,
but being you can be strong and you can be
kind at the same time. You can be strong, you
can be kind, you can be incredibly resilient, and you
can also be human. And I think that is that
wholesomeness that I think we're seeing more transparency and open
(13:41):
discussion about is very healthy. Now, the flip side of
that is we go too much on one side of
the spectrum where we don't allow for you know, more
wind to make good timber so to speak. Right, Um,
the stronger the wind, the stronger the trees, so to speak.
So we need those types of callous environments in order
to fortify not only physiologically but psychologically. Right. When you
(14:05):
have pressure, that pressure allows the human experience to do
extraordinary things and either by pure default and you have
no choice for injury, some kind of tragic failure loss
that you're facing and you have to bounce back, or
it's because you deeply desire to win and you want
to innovate or whatever that might be right. And so
there's always these things, and I think it's very we
(14:27):
have to be very careful today about there is this
line that we don't want to cross. We don't want
to push kids so much to say like, look, you
need to be a machine and you need to just
figure out everything on your own. But I think the
kids can have that element, right that is there, that's
a level that they can utilize, this obsessiveness that once
they harness that in short spurts, is extremely powerful. But
(14:50):
that if that becomes all encompassing and consuming, I'm speaking
from experience here, it can be highly internally toxic, very
self deprecating and of defeating. And oftentimes you live in
this era where you actually start to limit your growth
versus actually exude and be that person who you potentially
to be. You're deteriorating. It's it's it's degenerating. What about
(15:13):
who's the gymnast who who left the event? Her team
was so mad it was such a big right, So
what about that, Like, is that now that we're looking
at that, you know, months later however long it's been later,
I blacked out on time. But uh, is that too
much pressure? Is that bailing on your team? Is that
just knowing your body? Like? What about that? I think
it's very complex, right, I think, first and foremost, um,
(15:37):
when we look at Olympic athletes, and I think making
this statements important, we tend to export our belief on
what they should and what they represent right right now, Like,
we have no idea what's going on in her head,
the type of trauma. I mean, we kind of know
because they were open about this in this entire scandal
that existed that was horrific across those girls in gymnastics. UM,
(16:00):
and these girls carry that weight with them, and they
carry that trauma with them, And so we don't know
the complexities and the texture of how this person is
digesting and living in that moment. The the external pressure
of America saying it doesn't matter that you went through
those things, you still have to perform for us. I
don't know if that's okay either, And so you've got
this delicate balance of When I first watched, I think
(16:22):
like full transparency. I was like, because I'm conditioned in
a certain way, I saw I was like, hey, that
doesn't seem fair to her teammates. But then I you know,
I'm I'm, I'm I feel like i'm i'm hopefully growing
and getting some maturity. And so I said, wait, wait
a second, like what am I missing? Why do I
believe that to be a truth. I actually don't know, Simone. Um,
(16:43):
I respect her immensely, and I said, oh, I'm actually
wrong in this belief of exporting what I think happens
to be true. And this is like identity politics in
a nutshell, right, what was happening in our country with
the with the politicized nature of everything, also celebrity celebrity,
what we think people are doing right and wrong. I
was just talking about it before, about people flaunting their divorces,
(17:03):
flaunting their relationships, like I was talking about that today,
Like we think we know what somebody shouldn't shouldn't do.
It's similar, it's similar, um, but uh business to me.
So I I'm I'm athletic. I mean I snowboard, I
you know, ice skate, not professionally obviously, I've hiked fifteen
miles in my life and talked about it for fifteen
(17:25):
years since. Uh, but I know that feeling when you
just have to pull from within to finish something, to
do something. I'm definitely not an athlete, I don't, but
I know that feeling and that and I really know
that feeling in business, like you just everything's wrong, it's
going wrong, but you just you gotta collect yourself, get
you can't go through the window. You've tried the door.
(17:46):
You gotta go in another way. Like I do see
a parallel there with business and and sports and just
not sports, just being tremendously competitive as an athlete, where
you just gotta like regroup, collect your self, take care
of yourself, and attack it again for another day. And
I read about you when you weren't doing so well.
First of all, it sounds like as a kid you
(18:08):
had a natural ability and didn't know necessarily what road
you were on. And then you just we're winning. I mean,
you're doing really well. It seems like it came fairly
easy to you as a competitive person. But then you
hit some roadbumps, like you weren't just winning the way
that you were when you started, like not beginner's luck,
but like you just hit it right in the beginning,
(18:28):
and then later it caught up with you not either
practicing or taking it seriously. So what what was that
whole journey like a mustering you know it up and
and and and regrouping and then going back in. Yeah.
I mean, look, those those struggles and triumphs associated with
sport are are kind of apparent across my career. Especially
early on. I was this kind of thought about as
(18:49):
like this phenomen athlete, this prodigy for the sport um
and I didn't recognize it. I didn't have that self
confidence and belief. Um I just was kind of having
fun on the sport. And so when fun was moved
at the age of fourteen and fifteen, after I had
won my first trials and I was technically the number
one athlete in the US, UM I now was doing
this professionally and professionally as around grown men and women
(19:10):
who dedicated their lives away from their family to pursue
their Olympic dream and path, And so it was no
longer fun. It's not excuse, right because I now I
was training with the national team and I had earned
that right. But I do think there was something there
where um I now was put in this environment where
I just kind of went through the motions because I
didn't enjoy it anymore, and that was really really tough.
I didn't understand resilience and hard work and discipline and
(19:32):
all these things that compound over time could really really
be in terms of a result. And my dad shown
me some really tough love associated with that, right like
basically after not making the Olympic team in n Um,
finishing dead last those at those trials, to my dad
then shipping me or you know, basically driving me to
this remote cabin in the Pacific Northwest and leaving me
(19:53):
there alone at the age of fifteen to figure it
out on my own and basically give me the ultimatum
of Paula, you need you to really identify with what
you want to do in your life. I don't care
if it's academics, it doesn't matter to me good sport,
but your habituation that is being created, this behavior that
I see can be potentially patternistic, and we don't want
that to be something that you can normalize. So my
(20:14):
dad had this vision overall, not of me being this
great athlete, but he just wanted me to be able
to figure out how life will slap you down or
give you these challenges and if you shy away from them,
or if you cower away, Um, that's going to create
some type of conditioning that is in the opposite direction
of what you actually ultimately want no matter what you do, right,
it sounds like the game what happens with success Even
(20:38):
in business, as we were talking about, the game moves
pretty quick and then the game has changed. So you
had the game had changed, you didn't even really realize it.
It could be somebody at home bacon cookies and now
all of a sudden they're professional and it they've opened
a bakery and they're like, wait, this is not just
the cute everybody thinks I'm so cute that I make
cute cookies and likes them. Now I gotta deal with this.
So the game changes and then you have to reshift, pivot,
(21:00):
and you know, regroup and then it's a new game.
So how did you make the new game fun? And
by the way, it's not all fun like it could be.
It's work. You're just a little young, but it's it
is work, And so how did you make it that
you wanted to do it? You know, if you're fourteen,
the game changed, it's now sort of business a little bit,
so how does that, you know, reshift. I think it's
(21:22):
a part of that is just kind of mustering up
this belief that even though you don't know what the
outcome is going to be, you are still going to
forge ahead, uh to be and show up fully as
your best self. I get that it's process over prize,
which is what you say. It's this process, and it's
this marathon, and it's this one golf hole and you're
just doing this one thing at a time, and and
(21:42):
if you do everything to the best of your ability
every day, whether it's sports or otherwise, it'll take you
somewhere great. I think that's part of it, right, I
mean for sure, I think like we in this country,
like we love to celebrate champions and we never talked
about the people who got second third. We just don't.
That's been our conditioning that now so um so, that
has been ingrained in all of our beliefs since we
(22:04):
were very young, even in the way that cartoons and
movies and film has been shown to us. And so
we believe that, and so we have subscribed now to
tie our happiness directly to a result, which is great
for competition, which is great to keep track of score, um,
it is not probably the most holistic and wholesome way
to value or look at your own personal life. And
(22:26):
so if we can look at our life as a
series of chapters and understand that each chapter, no matter
we feel like we deserve a different result or not,
we have to surrender to that chapter after it has
been completed, and then we have to move on to
the next one. That's really hard to do because we're competitive.
Like you know, if I don't get what I want,
I'm angry, I'm upset, I'm confused, I'm frustrated. And that's
(22:49):
good if you can harness that in terms of recalibrating
for the next time, but if you stay dwelling itself.
So that's totally my whole life. But it's great, it's
very I find that the it that a failure when
I've had a real failure, I didn't get something, or
even back in the day when I came second on
the Apprentice, right you you you get sad, you get bombed,
you are depressed. But that regrouping and that like brushing
(23:11):
yourself off, that's very empowering. And that's I think what
you're talking about. That's when like all the good stuff happens.
We screwed it up. It could be a business. We
screwed the whole day up. Everything sucked. But you know what,
let's get excited for tomorrow. And I like people around
me that are like that because it's I know people
who never get excited about something. They say, I'm not
getting excited until I know it's for sure. I get
(23:31):
excited about everything if it's if we if we ship
the bet and it sucks, I still got excited. So
now I got excited and it sucked, versus not being
excited and it's sucking. It's better to be excited and
it's sucking. Yeah, And I think, look, look, life is
super short, right we we we've been given this gift
of eighties six thousand, four or seconds in a day.
I say this often we lose most of those two
a spiraling down world kind of negative self talk mechanism
(23:55):
that is so critical that we don't even allow ourselves
to be present. We're thinking about some think in the
future that we need to hit, and we're kind of
operating based on those kind of traumas or micro traumas
or failures that have happened in the past, and so
we're like never really here and we're never really there,
but we're living in the past. It's just like weird mechanism.
And so what I have found is that there's nothing
(24:16):
but during sports your present. During sports your present. But
I also think that there's nothing wrong, by the way,
with having that and knowing as long as you know
that you're on the treadmill, so to speak, right, and
you can get off the treadmill at times. Right a
catalyst or a lever or an incident that happened in
your life can be perhaps one of the most powerful
emotional tools that supersedes anything else. Education, physical ability, good looks,
(24:40):
whatever those things are, they mean nothing. When you see
a man or woman on fire, you know what I mean?
Like when they are, it's it's incredible. Yes, but you
said something that made me think about meditation. People think
that meditation is supposed to be absent of worry and stress.
It's supposed to be sort of just identifying it. And
they say, if you don't like people worry, Oh god,
I was thinking about my list when I was trying
(25:01):
to meditate, and then they they did it wrong. If
you lean into what you were thinking about, usually it
will dissipate versus if you run away from it, it
will chase you. So I think it's kind of what
you're saying, like it's okay to be not present then
to be worried. But I guess if you identify that,
then you're ultimately being more present. Yeah, it's um, you know,
I mean like deeply rooted in Buddhist philosophy. Is this
(25:22):
like belief of like if you seek happiness you'll never
get it, right, Like exactly what we're saying, the same thing, right,
That's what I'm saying, except what it is. And then
you it's a lot less pressure. We're always thinking we're
doing it wrong or this I should be relaxing more.
I shouldn't be worrying about this right now. You know,
you're at a spa and you're thinking about something and
you're like, damn, I'm supposed to be relaxing. It's not
relaxing to be thinking you're supposed to be relaxing. Um.
(25:44):
So you're an entrepreneur, you're a business person. You uh
talk about it, you write about it. So, um, was
that is that part of your sort of striving for excellence?
What what was your understanding of business and money as
a child. I know you said you're father was certainly
not someone who cared about money. You wrote you wrote
that it's a tool. But how did you become someone too?
(26:08):
I guess financially in business wise. Extend your minutes of
athletic greatness. You know, not to say that you you
were fifteen minutes. But we all have a moment when
it's the biggest. So I'm asking about the extension plan.
My moment was like twenty years ago. It's crazy, I
didn't say that. And and that's a realization that like
at some point in your life, what you did in
the past is not the most happening thing anymore. And
(26:30):
that's just that's life. You have to expect that, and
you have to figure out, um, what is it gonna
be fulfilling and important? That part of the reinvention, and
you know, part of the reason why I wrote this
book Hard Pivot is really deeply rude in this belief
that we all were faced these types of changes, either
by force, by nature or whatever it might be. And
the more prepared that we can be to embrace those
changes and those challenges, the better outcome that we will
(26:53):
actually be able to experience. So from my first identity,
which is the Olympic athlete, I had to kind of
dissolve that, so to speak, and I didn't know how
to do that, like twelve years ago, so I basically
ran away and ran away, meaning like I went to
the furthest place on the actual planet physically, which was
in Asia, and I started pursuing businesses that I had
no idea what I was doing, but I was ambitious
(27:13):
and a part of this was this kind of deep
rooted feeling that I had to keep moving that was
really really important. I knew that I couldn't remain stagnant,
and I also knew that my routine and what got
me to be a great Olympic athlete was simply the
attributes now the natural skill sets and talents that I
was given um from the universe, from this, from whatever
(27:33):
I have um they you know, wearing tights and going
in circles in business means nothing like no one actually
really cares and most people don't want to go in
circles anyway. But that was that was what I perfected
when I was in the sport, and so I moved
from that into this arena of saying Okay, Like I
have to stop saying no to everything else, which I
did my entire life. I said no to everything that
(27:54):
didn't involve me being the best in the Olympic path.
And then I started saying yes to everything, and it
didn't matter what it was. I wanted to curate these
experiences because my natural curiosity became a superpower. I understood
that I had advanced so much in my personal life
and when in regards to my sport. But outside of that,
(28:15):
I was a baby. I was a kid. I was
I was like nine, you know, I was like whatever
was going on? Fifteen? Like I literally was so stunted.
And so you can imagine like no real collegiate or
university experience in a dorm room setting, or learning, no
internships in any capacity, not ever working for a company,
not understanding business. And I'm starting but but I'm seven
(28:35):
years older than anyone else potentially that would be in
the same position, right, And so I've got these credible
life experiences and I've got zero business experience, And so
there's this emotional feeling of like I don't want to
feel stupid in this room. Now I can get into
any room that I want in the world. The problem
is after the first kind of you know, hey, great
(28:55):
to meet you. My son or daughter is a big fan,
why are you here again? Like like what actually you?
And so that chip on the shoulder became a really
strong motivational tool. That's amazing, you know, and I read
a little bit. We have similar principles. First of all,
I wrote a book called The Place of Yes but
um and talking about the pandemic and thinking about the pandemic.
(29:15):
It's sort of I think I've read in some of
your the press about you, just about the way that
the world has shifted now and there are different things
to grab onto. Like so many people are worried about
the fact that, oh that change, and I see it
that way, But I see that as a total opportunity
in business like this the snowboots was shaken. Everything's upside down,
(29:40):
and so there are so many new pockets for success,
so many new ways to be successful and entrepreneurial. And um,
how have you changed the way you're doing business or
what what's happening that's different now based on this time? Yeah,
So you know, I I spend most of my time now,
um in venture, meaning like we find great company needs,
(30:00):
analyze the data, and then we invest in those founders
and support them along their journey UM throughout the investment
life cycle of that company UM. And so what we've
found is that many times when I meet young founders
who are talking about a new particular niche, business, a sector,
a vertical that I believe doesn't need to exist and
(30:23):
is unimportant because I don't watch or subscribe or interact
with those types of protocols or projects wherever the may be.
And so an exercise that we've all done is like,
what am I missing? Why am I missing this? And
there's a very famous UM venture capitalist that's based in
San Francisco that had passed I believe on pinterest UM
(30:45):
at the at the earliest stage, and it would have
like returned his whole fund, meaning like he would have
had multiples and it was would have been a huge
home run for him. And then you know, like a
couple of months later after he comes back home from
work and his wife is talking about this like new
this website Pinterest, and he's like showing all these things
and he's like, oh, I am not a fifty three
year old woman at the time, this is the time
(31:07):
and obviously the demographic has changed immensely, and so he's
got this in the in the background of like his
like his office. It basically reminds him. He's like, Hey,
the reason why you don't get it is because this
is not a part of your experiences, whether that's in
video games, whether that's in you know, Web three, in
crypto or n f T s are just a crazy
and that could be scared because you have to learn it. Yeah,
(31:27):
that could be Jessica's or turned down Uber. She was
one of the people they asked in the beginning, the
girl from Gossip Girl, Jessica's Or. They asked her in
the beginning to be part of Uber. She was embarrassed
to tell me. I'm like, it's part of your journey,
but that I I want to cry thinking about it.
There's a ton of those stories, right, Like we have
stories like all across the board, and so many different
investments that would have returned like ten thou ex returns right,
(31:50):
but then it's neither here nor there, right. I think
the only way that we learned from that is to
remove ourselves. This is a part of the why the
book is important, is that you go through lie if
in this conditioning of your upbringing and your belief on
how the world works and should work. And the more
that you subscribe to that is powerful and strong, and
it gives you identity to align with, it gives you
(32:13):
the tribalism around. I missed the days and we didn't
have cell phones and people went to concerts and they
really experienced them, or in the Olympics and they really
watched them and they weren't on their phones and tweeting
and instagram and like, there's all that right, and and
that's fine. But I think from a business perspective, the
ones who are able to subscribe and have the foresight
(32:34):
to say, Okay, I'm missing something, and maybe I don't
believe in it, but I can understand how this new
technology communication or way that people are are engaging with
each other is going to be something spectacular and I
need to buy into that or you lose an opportunity.
(33:02):
So I have no idea what you're going to say
about this, uh question, what percentage are you lucky and
what percentage smart? I'm for sure not very smart, So
I'm gonna say I'm heavily skewed on the lucky side. Look,
I look I believe that I have been, like really
gifted an incredible life amidst all the challenges and hardships
(33:24):
and failures. Like I just I don't think that I
was originally intended or supposed to be here, or maybe
I was, but I just I feel like things have
happened in my life that are incredible. The people that
I have met, the individuals, the stories, just the a
the access be, the actual experiences, the things that I
have seen, the rooms that I have been in, the experiences,
(33:47):
the Olympic Games, um, the chances that I've been given,
whether I win or lose, whatever, but like the chance
I've been given, like my life is incredible, and so
I feel that's that's lucky. I fund to believe that,
And I'm okay believing that. Do I believe that I
have to do the hard work, and the work is
the actual shortcut of course, like that's the standard metric
(34:08):
for how I operate and live. But not for a
second do I ever believe that, Um, it is because
I was more intelligent or smarter than in your athlete.
I think I was really lucky. I was lucky to
be able to something was instigated in me to want
to do more than other athletes. I don't know what
that is. I don't know if that's my father. I'm
lucky to have a I mean, like I have a
(34:29):
dad singing about in household. But my dad was incredible,
Like he's just like every day I can't believe like that,
my this is my dad, And I hope that one
day I could be the same father to my kids.
He was to me like just a semblance of that. Well,
it's funny because I was just thinking, you're you may
be one of the people that just actually is very
very lucky. But I mean, but what's funny is that
(34:51):
somebody's very lucky if they're smart. I just thought of
that for the first time. Like if you're if you
happen to be really smart, then you happen to be
really lucky. I mean, in sport, we used to have
this saying where you know, short track speeds getting into
sport where you need luck like you absolutely need it. Um.
But then there's also a saying that says like make
your own luck. You put yourself in the right and
(35:12):
the best possible process and timing to where like you
can actually get that's the preparation prep being prepared for
when those fish calm, having your net and wait to
be lucky like that is the wrong move. That is nothing.
Thank you being prepared to be lucky, UM, Rose and
thorn of your career. The Rose was my first ever
(35:34):
Olympic final in sport. My first ever Olympic final in
Salt Lake City about twenty years ago, UM in two
thousand two, where I intended and I was in the
lead to win this race. I was favored to win
this race. I was like on the cover sports, like
all these things. I was highly hyped as a as
as an Olympic athlete. UM, and I didn't and I
got silver. I had fallen. UM, I cut my leg.
(35:57):
That was the rose because of the edible life lessons
that it gave me later on life, and that was
to get back up. I can't control the outcome. When
you believe that you are deserving of a particular result
and you don't get it, you have a choice to
perceive that as I'm going to live the rest of
my life angry and bitter, or I'm going to take
this as a gift, like as I said, and I'm
(36:18):
lucky enough and I'm grateful enough to have represented the
US and have won this medal. Is it the color
that I originally wanted to know? But that's okay. I
actually I wouldn't change the color today. I wanted to
be silver because of what it represented in so many ways. Um.
And the thorn that could be called that could be
a that could be called your silver rose. Yeah, my
silver rose. Um. I like that, I would say, like
(36:40):
because of my you know, I didn't grow up with
a mom in my life, right, I had mother figures
so to speak, like godmothers and people like that, but
I didn't have I think that that tenderness and empathy
I didn't get. I got no that did not have anything, um.
(37:01):
And so I was raised in a way where I
think it really affected. I think it still does affect
the way that I approach relationships. And it's been really
really hard, um, really really hard, and uh, I'm getting
better at it. But I think that my not like
the way that I naturally am in a relationship is
(37:21):
it's tough. Um. And again like I'm super lucky because
I have met incredible women in my life that have
taught me so much, and one of them is is this.
You know, my my current is is Bianca. Um, she's
just she's been so incredible in so many ways. But UM,
just like having someone to kind of basically re teach
me this is the stuff that I should have been
(37:43):
taught like thirty years ago. Well, allowing yourself to be
loved is not that easy for certain people, especially you're
on the you know, you're on the road, you're doing
this and you're goal oriented, and it's hard to stop
down and just be porous and allow yourself to be loved.
So I really do understand that that makes perfect sense
based on your background. So that's good. So that you're
doing that now, that's amazing trying to do the work. Yeah,
(38:04):
that's awesome. This was so wonderful to talk to you.
I really and I really do love talking to athletes.
I spoke to Maria Sharapova and Lindsey Vaughan and Gabrielle Reason.
It's just like a yeah, there's it's a very interesting
type of person, just like a very solid person. So
I'm from my experience here. So I've enjoyed this very much.
(38:25):
I appreciate you. Thank you, Yeah, thank you, I appreciate it.
Good luck. The book is hard, pivot. I just realized
the double entendres. So I love the name and I'm
excited for you. So congratulations, and I hope this helps.
But it was a great conversation. I loved talking to Apollo.
What an interesting conversation. He is so strong, so solid,
(38:46):
so sage uh. And I've really liked talking to the
serious competitive athletes. I find that to be a gift,
and I'm so honored and grateful that I've gotten to
share with you some of their wisdom for really striving
and battling the odds and still thriving and succeeding, because
(39:08):
that's a real that's just a real challenging road. I mean,
it's just you do it or you don't. There's no
gray in sports. If you want or you lost. So
I think it's been really interesting speaking to the competitive athletes.
So I appreciate you, rate, review and subscribe. Another wonderful day,
(39:28):
and I'm just so grateful, So thank you. Have a
good day. Just b is hosted by me Bethany Frankel.
Just be as a production of Be Real Productions, I
Heart Radio and Blue Duck Media. Are EPs are Morgan Levois,
Antonio Enriquez, and Kara hit to Catch more moments from
the show, follow us on Instagram and just be with
Bethany
Host
Bethenny Frankel
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!