Bobbi Brown

On reinventing yourself and the benefits of being naive 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:13):
I've talked about this before. I'd like to talk about
it again. The unsubscribed process has gotten really fucking crazy now,
Like now, unsubscribe you have to hunt, you have to
get a magnifying glass, you have to go down to
the bottom. Some people don't even have it. Sometimes you
get like ten emails from the same person as a
restaurant Connecticut that has been emailing me every day. They
are goddamn special, sometimes twice a day, the fall holiday menu,

(00:36):
the daily mail. I don't want this, and I don't
I don't. I want to be off this. I want
to be off this. Someone I know puts me on
every political email about everybody that's speaking and every bill
it's getting packed. I don't want to be honest. And
it's not even an option. How bold, how pushy to
think that you don't even give an unsubscribe option. But
the ones that do give unsubscribe options are very ambiguous

(00:59):
and vague in the language for male preferences, like what
male is that? I want to see the words unsubscribed
in giant red bold in the middle of the damn
email or at the top. I don't want to go
to the bottom where the fine print is and find
the word unsubscribe, and it's always in like a faded
pink or faded blue or faded gray like unsubscribed, Like

(01:21):
why is it a secret? I know you? So you
want me to be there without wanting to be there,
Like you want to be in a relationship with me
that I don't want to be in. So then you
go down and you hit unsubscribe, and then there's this
other long word like I want I want to unsubscribe
from newsletters, weekly hair appointments, and therapy sessions. But the

(01:41):
next one is like I don't want to receive these emails.
I'm thinking, oh, is there something besides the emails? If
I say I don't want to see these emails? But
then I'm still gonna get the newsletter and there's only
one box you can check. I don't want any of this.
I want to unsubscribe is one thing I want to
not hear from you ever fucking again. Like it's like
a person you want to break up with want out.
It's a mafia and I can't get out. I just

(02:03):
made a mistake years ago. I just bought something on
a website I didn't like buy something and say, oh,
I would like also beside menu that says I want
to buy something and I want to hear from you
for the rest of my fucking natural born life. I
want to unsubscribe, and I don't want it to be
so hard, and I don't want you to have a
word that says male preferences, And I'm like, brief, like
what are we talking about male preferences? But I don't

(02:24):
want male I don't want any mail, so my male
preferences are none, but I'd like to unsubscribe to whatever
I'm on. Are you mailing me something? Also, my male
preferences are never sent me anything but subscribe. I didn't subscribe,
you scam artist, either. I didn't subscribe. Unsubscribe like breaking
up with you would indicate that we were actually in
a relationship. I did not subscribe. If I did, I

(02:47):
was being held against my will. Okay, I did not
willingly subscribe. It's usually the same people that ask you
if you're a robot. They have the fucking nerve to
ask me if I'm a robot, but give me the
option to unsubscribe. When someone asked me if I'm a
fucking robot, I'm gonna want to unsubscribe. So those things.
It's the same people, and while we're on it, when

(03:10):
did everyone have to like give us there like religious
beliefs in the end of a god damn email, like
with patience and dignity, with love and harmony, with Christ
and hugs, like I don't understand every time someone said,
like now an email when someone signs out warmth, with patience, kindness,

(03:33):
with goodness and empathy, like what is going on? Am
I at some sort of touchy feely culty love seminar?
It's okay, Like I'm good with sincerely best, I'm good
with just sign your name. I like, I don't think
it's always that sincere either sincerely, so oh me get

(03:57):
the straight other ones that you send out that don't
have sincerely on it, because by definition, every single person
has not been sincere and everything they've ever said, So
then it should either be like and understood sincerely that
just every email just it should be like that one
at the bottom of the apple thing you're like sent
from my iPhone, so might give some fucked up typos
and grammatical errors. It should just be like I'm gonna

(04:19):
now say God bless you once because you've been sneezing
multiple times, So this just counts like these emails that
I send out are sincere If you say sincerely, are
we supposed to be like hmmm, I don't. I mean
when people say trust me, you know I don't, then
maybe it don't trust them. So I just sincerely is

(04:41):
not necessary best? What is that that's the best to me?
You're sending me the best to me? A lot of
people send me emails that are not wishing me the best.
I could just tell you that right now. So I'd
like to get some authentic endings. Warmth, I'm freezing. I don't.
I'm always cold, I'm always were in accordian. I don't
necessarily want warmth? What if I want a chill warmth? Okay?

(05:07):
What does that mean? What? What does that even mean?
What does it have to do with business? Warmth? And
then with I've had with patience? Oh, smile away? What
why don't you go fuck yourself? That sounds creepy and weird. Okay,
smile away, smile away. When I'm laughing at this signature,

(05:30):
I'm looking away, I'm smiling. What does that even means?
Smile away with respect? Okay? Do you think about that?
Every single time? It was respectful, because I could tell
you I send emails and they're not necessarily always with respect.
Sometimes they're with disrespect. Sometimes I don't. I don't respect
every single person I send an email to. I can
tell you that be kind. Oh okay, I guess this

(05:52):
is now a public service announcement. The more you know,
be kind. Why don't we just think we should just
signing out? Start signing out like rose all day, hit
him straight, raining cats and dogs like okay, be kind?
All right, I'm pregnant, you know, with anger and frustration. Right,

(06:16):
there are many emails you send that you're frustrating, with
anger and frustration. Work start combining them with respect and frustration.
Onwards and upward. What we are, It's okay, onwards and upwards.
I was enjoying being in a bad mood. I you know,
have p MS, menopause. I don't know that it's onward

(06:38):
and upward. Today have hot flashes. I don't feel good.
I you know, we're in a pandemic. I don't know
after today. My guest is Bobby Brown, the famous, talented,
wonderful makeup artist and the founder of both Bobby Brown

(07:00):
as Medics and Jones Road Beauty her first line, launched
with ten natural shades of lipstick and revolutionized the makeup industry.
Since then, she sold her namesake brand to Stay Lauder,
written nine books, and they've opened thirty brick and mortar
Bobby Brown stores. After all that and more, she shares
with us how she launched her latest brand from her
living room during the pandemic last year. Her business plan

(07:23):
is simple, you have to love what you're doing. I
think you're gonna love this episode. She was incredible. All right.
So hello, Hello, So we know each other ish, we
are aware of each other. We have met Um. I
looked in your building a long time ago, and I

(07:44):
think I ran into you there too, But we don't
really know each other. We were at a health magazine
thing together, so you know, there's always those moments, but
there's debt, like there's nothing similar about us, but we're
very similar. Now that I've read about you, there were
things than I would have even known. So where did
you grow up? I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago.

(08:05):
Will met right outside of about forty minutes out of
the city. Okay, I know that I know that area.
A little busit near um Lake Forest in those areas, yeah,
not far okay. And how many people in your family?
How many sisters and brothers your parents together? Ye? Growing
up my parents who are twenty and twenty one when
I was born there not together. They're both alive, but

(08:27):
not together. I was the oldest of three kids, so
at twenty five years old, my mother had three children. Wow?
And did they have any money? They My dad was
an attorney. My mom is stay at home, so, you know,
upper upper middle class. I guess you can call it.
That's what we called it at the time. I don't
know what that meant. It meant I didn't have to

(08:49):
take out a loan for college. And he seemed successful
when you were young because he was an attorney. Yeah,
he was successful. He was in and out of being
an attorney a couple of times, was and tried a
few various you know, different things, and always went back
to it. So, you know, maybe that's where my entrepreneurial
wonder loss came from. Well, what was their philosophy? What

(09:11):
were the messages in your house about money, about success,
about work, about college, about academia that kind of thing. Well,
I my parents never really expected me to achieve, like
you know, giant success and they you know, raised me
to be a good person who worked hard. And you know,
I knew there wasn't like I was going to get

(09:32):
any money from them for my graduation gift. My father
did support me for a year, paid my rent while
I figured out, you know, my freelance makeup career, which
was a really amazing start. But my dad gave me
the best money advice when I called him up one
day and I said, Dad, I just, I just I
can't stick to a budget and I'm always going over

(09:54):
my credit card. And he said, stop trying to stick
to a budget, and I stopped, and he said, just
figure out how you're going to make more money. That's
so interesting. Well, it's funny because sometimes and this is
not me and people should get into debt because that's
a different thing than what you're saying. But sometimes you
stretch yourself a little bit and get over your skis,
so you really have to hustle pulled together, and I

(10:15):
have found that those are times that you really do
end up finding gold. That happened for a lot of
people during the pandemic. How has your business been affected
during the pandemic or not even like and what what
did you change? Meaning? What did you say, Wait a second,
I see this opportunity that maybe no one else is

(10:35):
seeing or I'm not a Stunn deer, and this is
the way I'm going during the pandemic. Well, I launched
a new beauty brand during the pandemic and it was,
you know, probably the most unconventional time, the unconventional way,
and it's been a tremendous success. So I saw it
as an opportunity because we don't need to do things

(10:56):
the way we used to do them. I launched them
from my house with some the biggest press possible on Zoom.
You you were always going to launch it at this
time and then you just said, Okay, we're still going
to go through with it, or you decided during a
pandemic and then launched it. Well, the reason I chose
that date, which was October of was because it was

(11:16):
when my non compete from st Lawder was up. So
it didn't matter where it fell in October. It fell
a week before the presidential election, in the middle of
Black Lives Matter and Me Too and every and the
pandemic and everything else. But there was nothing stopping me.
When it was the first day I had my freedom
because I had a twenty five year non compete, and

(11:39):
so I launched it and I just went with it.
I had a seven year non compete, so you had
a twenty five year and not compete. You definitely thought
that was the rest of your business life when you
signed it. You did not think that like that you
would still feel so young with twenty five years later, right,
and it's twenty five years sounds like an eternity. Well,
when we my husband and I sold our company, I

(12:00):
was early thirties. I could have been thirty three or
thirty four. And when my husband said, they want you
to sign a twenty five year non compete, I just thought, oh,
I'm not gonna want to work in my sixties. So
I launched Jones Road at sixty four years old. So, um, yes,
I did launch it. So fascinating to let alone to

(12:20):
be working in your sixties. You don't think you'd be working,
but let alone launching. So so it's a clean beauty brand,
which is really what your entire brand identity has always been. Well, no,
my entire brand identity has always been makeup that looks
you know, natural, that looks like the color of your
skin that makes you feel, you know, confident. I mean,

(12:41):
it's just my style as a makeup artist, you know,
I've always loved to make people look healthy and beautiful
and and more like individual than what's happening in the trends.
So that was before when I was a makeup artist,
before I launched the first big brand, and certainly it's
been refined with Jones Road. Well, I need your advice

(13:04):
later about a makeup artist because I find so I
don't wear makeup respectfully unless I'm being paid or have
to or really just I'm going to something right. I
never do because I want to feel clean at all times.
I'd rather I don't wear nail polish. I'm just that person.
So I get who you're talking to you because you're
talking to me. But when I wear makeup, I look worse,

(13:25):
I look older. And when people do my makeup and
it takes an hour and a half, I look at
I look horrible no matter who does it. So I
love your whole entire just ethos from the beginning, but
it should take you five minutes to do your makeup.
And by the way, the hashtag for Jones Road is
how not to look like shit? I wake up in

(13:45):
the morning and I'm like, oh my god, I look
so tired. Well, I put I put a few things on,
and then I you know what I could I could
teach you. I could show you how to do your
own makeup in five minutes, and then when you go
out in the evening, you just take it up a
notch or two notches exactly. So I want to hear

(14:17):
about your trajectory. You know, I read it about you,
but I want to hear it from your perspective. From
what I've read that you, um really kicked it off
because of a guy at Keels, a chemist at Keels,
that you asked if you could do something, and then
you ended up doing something together. So can you sort
of tell us about your trajectory. Sure? So, you know,

(14:38):
I was a makeup artist working for fashion. I worked,
you know, I had covers of Vogue, I did fashion shows.
I was kind of on the top of my of
my game. I also, you know, met the man of
my dreams, got married, moved to the suburbs, and I
was actually pregnant with my first kid when I was
doing a shoot for Mademoiselle magazine at Hills Pharmacy. UM

(15:02):
and you know, before they sold it, when it was
still family owned, by the way, and I met a
chemist and I told him I always wanted to make
a lipstick that looked like lips, and we worked on
a formula together, and that's how I started the brand.
And where is that guy now? I don't know, I
don't know, I don't know. I mean we worked together,
you know, for a few years. And our our deal

(15:25):
in the beginning was he would make the lipsticks, he
would give them to me. I would market them and
sell them, and we'd split fifty fifty and that was
the end of it. They were fifteen dollar lipsticks. I'd
get seven fifty, you get seven fifty. You know, that
was great at the moment. But when I, you know,
decided to launch Bergdorf Goodman as my first retail store

(15:46):
through an opportunity, clearly that wasn't a business that would
work that way. So I had to start all over
and recreate them with an actual cosmetics lab. Well, it
sounds like from the very beginning when your mom asked you, like,
just what what do you want to do? A lot
of us don't think about exactly what we want to
be doing. We're in a box about what we should

(16:08):
be doing, what they're doing, what we decided we were
gonna be doing in college. And it sounds like, and
this is very similar to me, you just did, like
you just decided to get on the road. You aren't
exactly sure where you were going, and you just looked
at the doors that were opening and made the best
out of each opportunity. But it also sounds like you're

(16:30):
a connector you just you meet somebody, you take that road,
and you make it the most that you possibly can.
And it sounds like that's a big, big thread of
your career. I think it is. And I also, you know,
I really like people. I like meeting people, and I
see interesting opportunity. I'm really curious, and you know, I'm
basically a normal, down to earth, simple person that just

(16:55):
you know, feels very lucky that I've had this incredible life,
and you know, I just I always do kind of
see opportunity where other people see, you know, obstacles. Do
you feel that that's you're playing chess you're thinking so
many different moves, or that you overly simplify it, because
it seems like your path has been simple, not in

(17:16):
that it wasn't difficult. But in that you just what
you described about natural makeup. It's not that different than
thinking of a skinny girl margharita, a low calari margharita.
What afterwards it seems so like complicated, But in the
moment it was like, why isn't there a loccalari margarita?
And about you're saying, why is there not non clown makeup?
Right exactly? I mean to me, when things get complicated,

(17:37):
I do try to simplify them. It's always been my thing.
It's like, yeah, that makes sense, Like why isn't Yeah,
that's an entrepreneur. I mean, and look, we're you know,
we both come from probably similar you know, ancestry, and
you know, my grandfather came here from Russia and and
built like one of the biggest car dealerships in Chicago,

(17:58):
and I watched him do it. It It's like, okay,
be nice to people, talk to people, ask questions, and
just go do it one it sounds like you're just
an executor. The Keels guy was probably not a genius,
and this other person that you talked to and berged
off was probably not a genius. That all these people
are not genius. Is there people you said, okay, you've
got that, I've got this, let's make a deal. But

(18:19):
you executed. You made that thing, whatever that one thing was,
be the best that it could possibly be. And maybe
you outgrew it and maybe you went to the next thing.
But it sounds like that and people get stuck. They
don't know. Just just take that road right there. Just
do amazing at it and don't have acid, and then
get on the next get off the next exit. That's
sort of what I read. All right, Well you have
to keep doing it number one, and like you just

(18:41):
keep doing it. You don't stop, you don't think about it,
you don't you know. You It's like when people come
to me and they say I want my own business
and I say great, and then they have nothing else.
Or when people come to me and I, you know,
I want to create this brand and I said great,
tell me about it, and they're like, well, we have
a business plan and I have investors, and I'm like, okay,

(19:03):
can I see the product? Well I don't have the product.
Well if you don't have the product, how do you
know that it's even a business. And you've wasted all
that time and energy and money and now you're in debt,
and now you borrowed money, and you don't even know
if if you could make that moisturizer or whatever you're
in your head. You don't even know if it exists
or how much it costs. That's exactly right. It sounds

(19:25):
like you didn't even realize what you were getting yourself into.
You just were singular focus. You knew what you wanted
to do. You didn't know how competitive this business would be.
You didn't. You were naive, you said, so, being naive
ignorance is bliss. Yes, being naive is is definitely one
of my best traits. And honestly, if there was a

(19:45):
crystal ball that said, all right, Bobby, this is what
your life's gonna be. You're going to be, you know,
well known, you're going to be successful. You're gonna have
to do all this, You're gonna have, you know, hundreds
of people waiting for you when you walk, I would
run the other way. Honestly, my I do one thing
at a time, and I am never prepared for anything.
I guess I compartmentalize all this intensity. And you know,

(20:11):
especially now, things just it's like the wild West our
world right now, things come in and you're like, Okay,
that sounds interesting. Oh no, I don't want to do that. So,
you know, you just do you do one thing at
a time and just kind of figure it out. Well,
it's like a math on. You don't think about the
whole entire distance. You just take one mile at a time.

(20:32):
And um, you didn't have a big grand plan. You
just took one step and you still don't. You just
want to do this and you just do that to
the best of your ability and execute. Yeah. I mean
even like my husband and my son are like, okay,
so what are your plans for the business? I'm like,
I don't have any plans. I love what I'm doing.
I'm so happy it's killing it. People love it. I

(20:52):
want to keep doing it. Like you know, I have
no plans. I have no plans. You have no plans.
And but have you always loved to work? Did you
ever get burnt out and fried and want to get
off the ride? I got burnt out and fried being
a corporate citizen, and I you know, I recharged and

(21:14):
started all over again. It was very challenging. You know,
I was almost sixty years old when I left, you know,
a job I was in twenty two years. You know,
I was at an employee of a big corporation for
twenty two years. On paper, in my head, I was
I owned the company, but when I didn't know what
I was going to do, like I don't have I

(21:35):
don't know about you, but I don't have a hobby.
I exercise, and I see my kids and my family,
but I don't golf for play tennis. You know, all
my friends are doing that stuff and I'm not. I'm working,
you know, I'm doing things that are like interesting to me.
You're not very social. I'm very so oh, I'm very social.

(21:56):
I have a lot of friends, we do dinners, I
talk on the phone. But I'm you know, I love
I would much rather instead of going to lunch with
the ladies, go to a you know, a breakfast with
someone I've never met before, whose interests you know, who's
interesting to me, Like I just you know, I I
love not knowing something. I love meeting new people. I'm

(22:18):
not I'm not socially like I'm not joining a tennis
club or I'm not playing bridge or cards or and
my friends do that stuff and you know I love
that they love it. But I would rather get you know,
my wisdom teeth pulled. So you create a formula, you're
getting pressed, you start making some money, I suppose, or
you're probably putting it all back in the business. Like

(22:39):
explain that little time for all of us so we understand,
like what the nuts and bolts that were. Well, first
of all, who the hell remembers because I was, you know,
either pregnant or had a second kid. I was commuting
into the city. I was still a makeup artist. I
was still you know, having a career that's growing. I
had an office. You know, Vogue was coming to write

(23:00):
about us there. You know, Neiman Marcus was coming in,
and you know what, my husband went back to law school.
I mean it was kind of like a mess, like
a happy mess. I barely remember how hard it was
to manage people, and but you know, somehow it all
kind of worked. And yes, there was a lot of

(23:21):
aggravation and um, but that's part of any business. There
was aggravation, and then you know, you sell the company
and it's like you're elated, and then you're just figuring
it out, and you know, walking into these situations like
where am I, what is happening? What's you know, but
I learned so incredibly much. Either being uncomfortable or you know, insecure,

(23:47):
you know, whatever emotions you have in the beginning, but
you figure it out. I never ever, ever, ever did HR.
I never had a fire people, I I never had
to do those things. Another thing I'm really good at
is I always make sure I have someone around me
who is able to do things I'm not able to do.
And I've written nine books. I don't know how to type.
I figure things out. I'm not good at HR. I'm

(24:09):
not good ness, you know, at all the business things.
I'm not good at numbers. Well, I want someone that is,
and I want them to sit down and explain to
me what it means. And that's how I run my
my business life. I always say I'm not good at contracts,
but I'm good at concepts. So when I'm sitting with
the lawyers, I'm like, Okay, explain, and then I've figured

(24:32):
out so many different things. I've come up with so
many different deal points. When I'm not good at contracts,
but it's because I just need, like you just said,
to be able to understand what we're talking about. And
that's great advice for for other people. So how many
years did you have this business before you decided to sell? Well,
we didn't decide to sell. We were, you know, contacted

(24:54):
by many different people. I mean from Laurel to you know,
some Japanese business men I think shadow like we were
in Burgdorfs and Demons. We somehow became the number one
line and then you know, we got a call that
Leonard Lauder wanted to meet us. So it was after
four years. We sold the company after four or four
and a half years, and I stayed as an employee

(25:18):
twenty two years. You know, I kept renewing two year
deals because I didn't want to commit to anything else
until I didn't until I it was done. So we
are we speak a similar language because we both are
in industries where we both sold at an early point
in the business. So I was I turned a brand

(25:41):
in eighteen months, okay, so we sold earlier than the
really big numbers were coming in for beauty and liquor brands.
It sounds like based on reading about you and I personally,
I didn't know. I mean I did something and in
an industry I didn't understand whatsoever. And I also didn't
go to sell. I was approached but I was nervous

(26:03):
that the big guns were going to come and copy me,
which they did, that something legal would happen. And I
was completely broke because I never took a penny and
had no money, and I wanted to have my first
pile because I was broken. I these are all my
reasons for doing it. So what's the whole deal with
that whole decision in that early cell and all of that. Well,
it was much more simple and practical for me when

(26:25):
when we were approached. My husband and I had partners,
a husband and a wife, and it was a really
contentious relationship. It was bad. I used to lay in
bed and just say I can't do this anymore. I'm done,
I'm out, and my husband would say, calm down, let
them win the battle. We're going to win the war.
I never knew what it meant, calm down, I don't
want to talk about it now. I couldn't talk about

(26:47):
anything after nine o'clock at night. It was it was
really tough. And then when Lauder came it was honestly,
one of the reasons was I didn't want I just
didn't want to be responsible for this working relationship that,
by the way, was working because we were doing so well,
but it was just so unpleasant. Um, and so they

(27:07):
came and you know, the person stayed with the company.
I guess. You know, a year we rekindled with them.
You know, we were Look, I'm sure there's stories on
both sides. It's not one sided, but you know, it's, uh,
we we all had something magical back then, and I
don't know, maybe we were too immature to actually just

(27:28):
deal with it, but it's you know, it's it's history.
So that's a great So I didn't have a contentious situation,
but I wanted to extricrate myself from my partner because
we were partners only in the cocktails and I didn't
know that i'd want to make skinny Girl brand and
all those other categories. So, like you, I forgot. You
just reminded me of that. I wanted to be able

(27:49):
to be free of that, and that is a great reason.
But you also reminded me that people when they're thinking
about going into business of partners a you have to
write every single thing down and of the craziest stuff
that could ever happen. But be you don't want to
marry someone you wouldn't want to be divorced from and
that sounds terrible, but you've got to think of everything
that could go wrong. So you did something and it

(28:11):
gave you emotional peace, and it gave you what I
like to call your first pile. You had financial freedom. Um,
did you have to stay in? No? I wanted to
stay in. I mean it was but they would have
bought it without you, Like you weren't shackled. It was
never it was never even discussed. And you know, I
don't think I would have sold it if they said
they didn't want me. It's what I did. It was

(28:33):
my company, and you know, Leonard Lauder said, we're buying
it because you. The company is you, and it was
always me. I mean, unfortunately it still is. You know,
it always will be. It's my name, it's you know
it is. I mean, from an outsider, I think it
looks like your brand D n A and if it
doesn't feel like they did so much to change it,

(28:54):
you know, all the ins and outs, but it looks
I have I have it. I still think of you
when I think of the brand. Frankly, I didn't even
I don't know that much about a lot of things
that I learned on here. I didn't even know you
sold it. I probably knew it but forgot it. But
when I when I put it on my face, when
I put that rose eyeshadow, I think about you. But
you know what, it is completely not the same as

(29:16):
it was. And you know anyone that you know pays
attention to those things like it's different. You know, it's
just it's different. I'm sure you know people that buy
Donna Karen, you know the old brands are d n K.
While you're like, no, it's completely different. So I look
at the you know, brand rarely, but when something pops
up on my feet, I look at it and I'm

(29:37):
just like, oh my god, that does not look like
the brand that I created. And I don't even have
an emotional attachment to it, like it's my name, but
there's nothing else. There's not anything else that has anything
to do with me. So then no regrets, no regrets.
No what is Jones Road? What does what does that mean? Well?

(30:12):
Jones Road is just a name I found on ways
that I thought sounded cool because I couldn't use my name,
and you know, most of the new like cool names,
like it's hard to find one that's not taken and
it's hard to find one that you can get rights too.
And Jones Road just popped up on Ways one day

(30:32):
and I thought, said, that sounds cool. It sounds like
the UK. I love the UK, and um, I can't
use Brown, I might as well use Jones. So the
brand is called Jones Road. I like it. How big
of a team do you have? Now? What sort of
you You built a brand years ago, launched a brand
very successfully, Now you've launched another brand. Obviously everything is different,

(30:55):
But what specifically is really different? And what's the same?
I mean, old school hard work is the same. So
what's the same and what's different for you? Well, I
mean everything is different and everything is the same, meaning yes,
we're still you know, I'm still putting as much you know,
angst into this company as I did to the other.
What's different is the you know, the people that work

(31:16):
for me are much less experience. They are you know,
super you know, bright eyed, and they are super excited
to be where they are and not just you know, oh,
I've done this for twenty five years. You know, I'm
really the only one with that kind of experience. But
you know the difference, how you know, how everything is

(31:38):
working now is different. You know, Bobby Brown was a
brand all about retail. Jones Road is direct to consumer.
So it's night and day. You know, we own our
when we're going to put something out and guess what
if it's not going to be delivered for whatever reason.
So we launched it the week after like it's all

(31:59):
that stuff that was so stressful and angsty. Oh my god,
it's not. Now. It's like, Okay, we ran out of
that one shade. When are we getting it back? All right, guys,
it's coming back in six weeks. We'll let you know.
Like we're just you know, we're we're authentically speaking to
our consumer, and I think that's such a cool way
to be. Do you still see so many things in

(32:20):
this business that are influenced by you, that begun with you,
that that people don't even know. I gotta say, I mean,
I don't know everyone in the world, but people do
give me credit for things that have happened. And you know,
especially after I left the company and I didn't know
what I was going to do, and I would get
these messages that you know, you revolutionized beauty, you changed
and you know, I just read these things and you know,

(32:42):
you created a movement. Like I never thought I created
a movement, but I did. That's so cool. The good
news is I have so many more things that I'm
able to create. I created a product in Jones Road
called miracle Bomb, which I've never seen anywhere else, and
there is Honestly, you used miracle Bomb and you say,
oh my god, how have I lived my life without it?

(33:03):
It's exactly what you are looking for. You could put
it on your cheeks, on your whole face, you can
put it on your eyelids, you could put it on
like it gets away of flyaways, and it's just you
look like you just look better instantly. And I'm like, yeah,
that's why we were makeup guys, so we could look
better instantly. Right, Well, have you learned that you're better
flying solo not having a partner? Yes, yes, there's no

(33:26):
there's no question. It's hard enough. By the way, you know,
my business partner is my husband, and so you know,
I still have to explain some things why I want
to do some things, and you know, and it's a
it's a given take. But you know, I'm not just
at my own like you know, devices to hire and fire.
I have a board. I put together a very small

(33:49):
board of people that I that I need by my
side that are experienced and really smart. And you know,
I have an incredibly smart GM who's thirty one years old. Wow,
that's amazing. What has been your rose, your high point
and your thorn? Just um career wise? My rose career
wise are there's so many of them. I mean there's

(34:12):
you know, I got a very big bouquet because I've
I've seen, I've met, I've experienced, I've done, I've learned,
I've you know, had opportunity, and I just I looked
back at my whole career like, oh my god, you know,
like I never in a million years would have dreamt
any of it. And I'm also so optimistic that I

(34:32):
haven't even come near to where I'm going, and you know,
things happen, like you know, there was a full page
of me on page four in the New York Times
last week. You know, it was like that stuff doesn't
get lost on me. So, you know, I sent one
to my mother and her retirement community, and she sent
me a picture of her holding this newspaper like it
made me want to cry. Oh that's so nice. She's

(34:53):
in her eighties and not in the best of health,
and it was like, oh my God. And and honestly,
Bethanya made me realize, Mom, thank you for all this
stuff you gave me, you know, the confidence and the
you know, the naivete that I could do anything. And look,
trust me, I forget about the angst of you know,
relationship things I had with my mom. And you know,

(35:14):
you let go of the bad stuff at some point
and just focus on the good stuff. But you know,
so my rose is there's you know, I'm just very
fortunate and excited. The thorn is that I am someone
that cares so much about everything, from how things look
to how they seem to how people are feeling. I

(35:35):
care so much that it's sometimes is really hard for
me to not be happy with what I see. M
I get that, I really get that. I really really
get that. So you feel like you've overshot the mark,
but you haven't taken this ball into the end zone.
It sounds like that, right, I mean, honestly, hopefully I

(35:57):
will have my marbles when I finally write my you know, autobiography,
because there's so many bizarre, interesting, cool, fun, random things
that you know, I wouldn't have had the opportunity or
the experience. And it's not and it's not about the
money in the homes and all that stuff. I save
every snapshot and photo. I have a dropbox full of

(36:21):
images in you know, separate little files, because I'm very like,
you know, organized and visually like O C D. So
I'm like, I look at these pictures and i can't
even believe that I've had these incredible opportunities. So about relationships,
we talk about successful relationships because the people that I

(36:42):
speak to are very successful in business and very successful
in relationships. I found out, I mean decades long relationships.
So it sounds like you are also in that category.
And what um are the biggest threads that jump off
the page for you? Well, it's certainly my kids, you know,
I mean my my posse. Like if you know, I

(37:03):
always like, you invite me somewhere and I'm gonna say,
can I bring my posse? Like my posse are my
three sons, sometimes a couple of nephews, and now they're
they're girlfriends who are now turning into wives. So you know,
my the threat are those people. I'm also really really
close to the you know, the my friends who we

(37:25):
raised our kids together, you know, I mean, my oldest
is thirty one now and I'm still friends with the
people that we you know, would go back to school
night with in the suburbs. And you know, but I
have so many new friends that I've met through my career.
Who are you know, literally like mentors to me that
you know, they're friends, but they're very successful. I wouldn't

(37:47):
have met these people if I didn't have this, you know,
this life I have so I but it's important for
me to have both, Like I need my you know,
my slippers to go with my fancy dress. Of that
makes sense. But with your husband, you work together. What
is the the infinite wisdom that you have are being
married for so long and that's your partner in life

(38:09):
and in business. We are really lucky and it's not easy,
you know. We we we are together all the time.
We're together all the time. I mean, he's kind of
you know what time you've done on your podcast? You know,
we're together now And I said, I've got that, I've
got that. Is there anything you need? He's like, well,
we got to go look for bathtubs because we're renovating
and a couple of houses, so you know, we're we're together.

(38:32):
Does he care? What if you want to go away
next weekend to somewhere? Does he care disease? Does feelings
get hurt? Or you one? I have two dogs Biggie
small as there one litter and we call them one
dog and Paul, my fiance, I used to feel like
he wanted to be one dog and I wanted to
be two dogs. So you one dog or you two dogs?
First of all, my dog's name is Biggie. Oh that's funny,

(38:52):
and uh, you know which is really funny. But no,
you know what if I told my husband I was
going away next weekend, like I told him, I I'm
on a panel and something in a couple of weeks
if it doesn't get canceled, and he says, oh, then
I'll go away, Like he couldn't be here without me.
I mean, my husband used to call me at four
o'clock to say when are you going home? And I'm like, Stephen,

(39:12):
just let me get in the car. And I call
him in the car, all right, what do you want
to do for dinner? What are you doing? So we're
we're pretty connected, but he's like he's he's busier than
I am. He's got more businesses than I do. He's
super accomplished. But he's also you know, he's also someone
that doesn't like you know, he just he doesn't need

(39:34):
to be working as hard as and as long as
I do. Raising being wealthy and raising kids and wanting
them to have that hustle and that hunger that you had.
How do you navigate that? You know, I'm married a
normal guy. My kids are normal kids, at least you know,
a couple of them. I have three sons, and you know, yes,

(39:55):
they were you know, mostly raised by by watching us.
And you know, people always say to me, especially my
you know, very famous friends, are like, your kids are
so amazing. I'm like, yeah, because we kind of raise
them to be normal even though they know, you know,
they know the privileges they do have. And you know,

(40:19):
I'm honestly betan. Out of everything I've done, I'm most
proud of the men that my kids are. You know,
I have become. I've always like figured out how to
do things that make me comfortable, so you know that's important.
Like I just got invited to some big fancy dinner,
you know, where there's going to be everyone in our industry.
I don't want to do it. I've done those things.

(40:40):
I'm over it. I don't need to walk around on
high heels and parade myself. I got it, I really do.
Last question, which is what's going on with like the
ship shell of all this costume weird makeup? Like what
are we gonna do be wearing like actual plastic masks? Next?
Like I when I've read about you and really how
it all started, I just thought about like all these

(41:02):
people and all the steps and all this stuff, and
the messaging for young girls and the filters, and you know,
it's not me just like it's wrong. It's just it's
it's it's too much, these kids wanting to do all
this craziness. You know what, there is an audience for everyone.
There's an audience for Jones Road that are people like you,
people like me. You know, like a majority of the

(41:25):
women just don't want the you know, the other stuff,
and there's plenty of people that want that other stuff.
So it's okay, you know, choose the road you want
and go for it. I guess I just I don't
want my daughter, which she's not. She's so natural, thank god.
But you know, with the lashes and the contouring and
the this, and you need that, and we need this

(41:46):
step and five steps and if you know, I just
I don't know. It feels like the filtering. It feels
like the superficiality, and it makes me uncomfortable. So I
feel like it's a slippery slope pound and pounds and makeup.
With the exception of if you're some sort of an
artist in doing it for like costume makeup, and that's
like a whole different form of art, I understand, but

(42:07):
with just needing to feel like it's going to make
you look better and prettier, all of that that worries me. No.
I I do think there's you know, there's roads for
people to take, and you know, I think I think
everyone will find what's comfortable for them. And you know,
maybe it's comfortable to have a pile of makeup on,
Well it's not for me. So well, I appreciate your time.

(42:32):
And it was such an interesting conversation. I was devouring
it because reading about you, I was like, oh my god,
me too. So I I found a lot of similarities
and commonalities and I think it's amazing what you have
done for yourself, for your family, for women. I think
it's beautiful. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it,

(42:52):
and it was it's nice to connect with you. And
you know, keep up your good work. You know we
we got we got us. Girls have to be there
to show everyone else how you do it. Well. Having
a wonderful day, and thanks for telling us your story.
Thanks Bephany. Bobby Brown was so interesting, what a good conversation.

(43:17):
I really like to make it about them and we're
hearing their stories. But sometimes so many things about a
person jump off the page that reminds me of me,
and I want you to hear those commonalities because you
might find something in us that that jumps off the
page for you. So there were just so many things
with Bobby Brown that I have experienced in my own
career that I had to connect them and take notice.

(43:42):
It was really great, really interesting, and she is a
true female entrepreneur. So that was an honor. Thank you.
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