October 14, 2021 • 50 mins
On new ventures and mixing business and friendship
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Speaker 1 (00:13):
I want to know why famous women only date famous men.
I've never dated a famous man. I don't even meet
famous men. I don't. I mean, I know some, but
I would think that there would be so how could
there be enough oxygen for two famous people. I guess
they say they know what they're going they know what
they're going through, they understand the life, the business, et cetera.
(00:35):
But that is so much oxygen being taken up. Meaning
for example, so Kelly RiPP is a friend of mine,
and she and Mark Consuls are both famous, but she
says he's the peacock, and so she goes to her
work every day. But it almost feels to her like
a nine to five, even though it's not literally a
nine to five, And he's more of like the colorful
(00:57):
peacock in the relationship, so it ounces there, but they're
both not out every you know, three days at a
film festival, at movie premieres, at so it would seem
hard and maybe that's why a lot of Hollywood relationships
don't work out. But I also see that a lot
of Hollywood women only go for major Hollywood men. So
(01:22):
is that an ego thing or is that a thing
where they understand each other's lives or is that sort
of you need someone good enough for you, you you know,
I like being I have never dated someone who had
a real social media presence or interest. Um my fancy
(01:43):
Paul has an account because he's produced movies, but he
never post supposed a picture of me once a year
or something. And I've always liked that. And you think
about that in this day and age, and all the
people that I've gone out with have not had it.
And I do social media now a little bit of
TikTok because it's a little fun and stupid and still
and I found my way that it's idiotic, which is
(02:03):
what I love in life. But I only do it
for work. So, um, I would find it very annoying
if I had, if I was in a relationship with
a man who was wanting to always be photographed and
take pictures and look at me and filters and all
that I would find, I would I would actually hate that.
So I just think it's interesting, Um, public people dating
(02:24):
public people and what that is about. I think that
people are afraid, right, you know, mere mortals, not not celebrities.
People are afraid to negotiate while in a relationship about
what is in the relationship. People will eventually talk about
pre nups. People will talk about so many different things.
(02:44):
We're going there, let's go here, We're going on this vacation,
We're not going on vacation. You're Jewish, I'm Catholic, whatever.
But people don't really negotiate about what they're doing. And
I don't mean, like, what are we doing now? You
know it's been three months? Are we exclusive or we're
not exclusive? I understand that, and people do do that,
But negotiating things that are your wants and your needs,
things that you really just can't there will be a
(03:06):
deal breaker because a good relationship means the other person
will hear you, and, if not immediately, eventually really try
and work hard to give you what you want. But
when I say the negotiating, so there are certain things.
Paul and I have a house in Massachusetts. Um, that's
where his kids live, and we renovated it and made
(03:27):
it nice, and he really well, even though when we
first met, I was in New York and I always
wanted to be in New York and that was just understood, Um,
he needs me to be there and to come to Massachusetts.
And I made it clear that in the summer. I
really just the summer is where the Hampton's are, my home,
(03:48):
my happy place, my daughter's home. You know, it's just
a place. So those are needs, and those are things
that were negotiated before. I hear a lot of relationships
where people don't talk about these things that come up,
meaning okay, how many times a month? Not that you
have to stick to this. It doesn't mean it has
to be like black, you know, and I am clad
contract because obviously things happen. Paul's family is a place
in Nantucket. We go to Nantucket, which is beautiful, Um,
(04:10):
which you know, he needs to see his family, and
that's a need and um it's it's amazing. And but
I mean like saying, okay, well, how how often do
you visit your parents? Like what is going to that
going to be in this relationship. Some people want the
other person to see their parents every Sunday for dinner
or every other weekend, or that the parents stay with them.
(04:32):
Like these things are often not negotiated beforehand, so you
understand what's going on, because these are the cracks that
can become creators where for me, I wouldn't be interested
in my husband fiance boyfriend's parents coming to stay with
me every two weeks. I think that would be that
would be too much for me. I also don't come
from a big family dynamic, and that might be I'm
very private, and I don't you know, it might be
(04:54):
a little invasive. As luck would have it, Paul's family
is just like camp. Paul doesn't love to be again
best like myself. He doesn't love to really have guests
that often, and he sort of stands on ceremony, meaning
he's not someone who would ever walk right into someone's
house and expect something. And even with his family, there
are just ways that things are planned. Everybody's different. None
of this is right or wrong. It just means that
(05:16):
it's something that we knew about each other. I'm not
very social. I don't I'm not out every night with
multiple groups of people and always people just stopping by.
And my house is just always crowded with people, and
neither as Paul. We're very insular people in that regard.
We make plans and have a great time, but we're
not just always activated. We both share that. So I
think it's interesting and smart too negotiate in a relationship,
(05:41):
not a pre nup. Not what are we doing and
how serious are we and what are we getting married,
but what your wants and needs are and if they
line up, And that's sort of a negotiation. Okay, I'll
come to Massachusetts often during the you know, around the year,
but I really want to be in the Hampton's in
the summer. So that's that's in agotiation. That's like a
deal point, a relationship deal point. Um, you know, you
(06:04):
love Nantucket and you grew up going there, so we're
gonna go there a certain amount of periods, uh, during
the summer. Like I said, you're a person who likes
to go out late and I don't, So I'll do
that with you every once in a while. Or you
like to go to you know, fish concerts, but that's
not who I am. So that's gonna be a rarity.
So either you do that with your friends without me,
or I'll come once in a while, but that's not
(06:26):
who I am. You know, I don't love going to big,
like crowded concerts and things like that, food festivals or
things like that. Like so, so doesn't mean I'm not
going to go. It just means you're letting someone know
who you really are. So you can see if you
can possibly make them happy. If I was somebody who
wanted to go out to two o'clock in the morning
once a week, or partied or did drugs or wanted
(06:46):
to try molly or something like that, Paul would not
be interested in that. You know, he's never tried to
drug in his entire life. So what do you think
about negotiating in your relationship? What do you think about
terms and things and deal breakers and who you are
and who you're not. It sounds ridiculous. You know. If
you show someone who you are, they should believe you.
But people think things are gonna change. And it happens
with in laws, It happens with religion, It happens with family,
(07:09):
It happens with sex, It happens with therapy. Are you
someone who will go to therapy? If you're not, it's
cute in the beginning when you when you hit a
fucking robock and your partners is't wanna go to therapy,
it's not cute anymore. Um, do you like the other
person's in laws? Yeah, but if they're walking into your
house unannounced, uh, every week, you might not like them
that much. So is that you know, can you let
(07:29):
the other person who you are, so at least you
can go back and say, we agreed upon this. You know,
we agreed upon this thing. I said that, I made
that clear. Now, obviously things can change and someone can
change about it, but you can't just blow up a
whole deal. You can't later just retrade on a lot
of things. So I just think it's great to establish
the terms. And I know this from work. The more
(07:49):
you lay out, the better the contract is. You don't
want to get tedious and get caught up in it.
But when you're at the end of a contract, that's
when you really get into being creative about different things.
Can get what you want because you could get jammed
up on points, but if you're creative about other things,
then it could work like things that you sometimes given
a negotiation in business, making other the other partner so
(08:10):
happy that they don't mind these other deal terms. And
everybody has things they want to do and things they
don't want to do in a deal, a good deal
means both partners are happy and also slightly uncomfortable, and
that's a relationship. That's a partnership. So tell me what
you all think about that. Today, My guests are Captain
(08:36):
Power and Cameron Diaz. They went into business together with
one goal to make clean, delicious wine, and they did
just that with the launch of Avelene Wine. Today we
find out about how they went from friends to business
partners and all of their highs and lows breaking into
the wine industry. I love their story and even got
some great advice. I can't wait for you to listen.
(08:59):
I Hi, how are you? Hi? There? Hi both of you.
I read that the two of you met um in
a backyard. It was of one of your homes. Other people, Well,
we've we've we've spent a lot of time in in
our backyards. But we met through Cameron's sister in law,
Nicole Ritchie, who has been one of my best friends
for twenty years. And when Cameron started dating her now husband.
(09:24):
We met because his twin brother is Nippole's husband. And
where did you You both grew up in California? Correct?
We did? Yeah, and in some of like not so
far from each other, right, Like didn't you both grew
up in near San Diego? World's apart? World apart geographically?
Not really, yeah, relatively relatively close. It's not like you
(09:48):
grew up on you know, I grew up on the
East coast and you grew up on the West coast.
Like we were within a vicinity of one another geographically
that you know, we can call each other, we can
say we're both Southern Californians. Yes, and both have later
in life and both sort of found converged with wellness
and health being sort of on the forefront, but both
(10:10):
coming from two very different backgrounds. You sort of met
at this vortex of wellness and are basically in an
entirely new business. It seems like it's starting a whole
new venture. Yeah, for both of us. You know. That's saying,
find something you love to do and then figure out
a way to get paid for it. And that's what
we're doing here because we love wine and we you know,
(10:33):
I'm an entrepreneur. I spend most of my time, um,
you know, building brands in beauty and fashion for the
mostly millennial and gen z um and Cameron, although she's
a movie stars, is deep into wellness, having having written
two books on the body that are essentially science books
and former movie stall That's what I mean. This is
(10:59):
an you business and people don't well are you sorry?
Catherine Are you still in the beauty business. Are you're
still working on those projects? Yes, very much. So okay,
So and this sort of happened. You know, my my
brands are all kind of they have similar themes, clean ingredients,
sustainable supply chains, super accessible, whether it's through you know,
(11:22):
distribution channel or price point. And we were just sitting
there drinking wine, and we were talking about, you know,
should we open another bottle, and we started to say
to each other, you know, we just don't feel that
great when we, you know, drink wine anymore, and I
wonder what's in this? And we you know, we turned
the bottle around and we were reminded that, you know,
(11:42):
wine is one of the only consumables where you have
no ingredient list and no nutrition facts. And we kind
of said, like, it's just grapes, right, And that set
us out on a journey to really learn the wine
making process and understand what potentially goes in that bottle. Um.
And then when we learned, you know, and and started
(12:04):
on that journey, I think we were compelled to share
it with more people and to kind of offer a
solution um, you know, because we were trying to drink
you know, cleaner wine wine with with organic grapes and
low intervention and low additives, and it was really hard
to find. So we felt like if it was hard
(12:24):
to find here, it's hard you know, for for everybody
throughout the US. The hard part about it was just transparency.
You know. It wasn't that it wasn't on the shelf.
It was just that we couldn't identify it on the shelf.
We saw that in the wine industry in particular, because
of that lack of you know, they don't have to
put anything on the label. It's T t B, not
(12:46):
f d A, so they don't there's no requirements to
put anything ingredients on the label. So you know, you're
walking down the aisle and there could be two under
bottles surrounding you. And we just found that, you know,
in this industry, it's it's not a practice, it's not
what they the industry itself deems important to the drinker. Um,
(13:07):
there's a whole other, you know, list of items that
will be sort of discussed first before the ingredients of
the bottle. You know, you know, it's effectively like creating
a new category of transparent wine. I mean, in creating
a new category is very difficult to do something different
in the liquor industry. I don't own the that part
(13:28):
of the brand anymore, but I was the first ever
low calorie ready to drink cocktail. It's the same thing
where um, sometimes things are so stupid they're smart, like
a big deal, it's a low calorie margharita. I started with,
this is making perfect sense to me. It's true like
everything else, you read an ingredient list, and I wrote
a book saying eat things with ingredients you can pronounce.
(13:48):
So you, guys, really we're all shooting blind by drinking
and not knowing what's in it. So I love that
that is a game changer concept. Um Cameron, I read
that you didn't grow up with a really a lot
of healthy eating habits. So what was your socioeconomic background
and what was your childhood like? And did you have drive?
Did you want to be a business person like is
(14:08):
now you're an entrepreneur? Yes? Um, you know, I think
I grew up in Long Beach, California, which is pretty
um expansive, it's pretty large area. But I grew up
in a in an area that was sort of you know, um,
very um urban and uh you know, I kind of well,
(14:31):
I wouldn't say urban like the city, but it was
very um, I guess there's a lot of concrete we were.
I just kind of grew up in a sort of
lower middle class area, other side of the tracks. Um,
success to me was not staying in Long Beach. What
was success for me? I left as soon as I
(14:52):
graduated high school. I left Long Beach and you know,
started traveling and that was something that that was all
I really had ambition for was to to do that,
and it's just sort of escalated, you know, my life
kind of. I just kind of followed life as it
took me. And that was just with inside of you,
Like you were born that way, you had internal drive
that you just wanted to go be something, do something.
(15:13):
You thought you had it. Yeah, I mean no, I
didn't think I had anything. I just knew I didn't.
You know, Long Beach wasn't where I was going to be.
I wasn't where I was going to stay. I mean,
I love Long Beach. I go back to Long Beach.
I think Long Beach is a great place. But for me,
I just kind of knew that it was very limited
there and I didn't have any you know, education. I
(15:34):
didn't have any money. I didn't have you know, all
the things that looked like how you got out of
someplace or how you advanced your life. You know, Um,
college was not an option. My parents didn't have money.
I didn't you know, they didn't push me really to
go after any one career. UM. I just sort of went,
(15:56):
I want to see the world. I want to travel,
and so I did. Now you are a female entrepreneur,
which is different than your previous career, where that wouldn't
(16:18):
have been something that someone would have said. And do
you feel a greater sense of control? Do you feel
that you're taking more seriously? Do you feel like you're
perceived to be smarter? I mean, how does it feel
to make that trajectory and monetize something that you're passionate about?
You know. I this is something that I think started
off for Catherine and I as I mean, look, Katherine's
(16:39):
a serial entrepreneur, so she's going to she she knows
how to build businesses. It's something that's very new to me.
And I had, you know, sort of resigned from making movies. UM,
and I felt that I was just you know, not
really needing to do much more. It wasn't something that
I was looking for, but when we sort of started
(17:02):
off talking about it, it just we had so much
fun about the possible what we thought the possibilities could be.
And of course then we started dreaming, and then we
as we started dreaming, we were doing and we found
ourselves really just sort of like taking each step um
forward and you know, really learning a language completely. As
(17:23):
you know, Bethany, it's a complete it's a language and
of itself. The industry is very specific to itself. Um,
there's nothing you know that I think that Katherine and
I could have taken from directly from the businesses that
we were both in and applied to even I think
in the financial models and all of the ways that
(17:45):
you have to get that product to the shelf. Um
is a completely different you know, it's a different language.
If you knew that, if you knew what you didn't know,
you wouldn't have done it. And also I've heard many
people speak about and Katherine, you haven't left your other career,
and we'll get into that now, but I've heard many
people coming on here say that they leave one part
(18:07):
of their career, not for anything bad, they just they
did everything they needed to do there they didn't they
could do with their eyes closed. They weren't inspired. They
just they did. They checked all the boxes, and now
they want something else. And now you're doing something you're
passionate about. So people ask a lot about when to move,
when to make a move, and it can be scary.
I'm sure it was scary, but that's when you jump,
(18:29):
when you fly. So I think that's inspiring. Yeah. I
think having resolved about having resolve about anything, you know,
whether it's resolved to stop something or resolve to start something.
Like you know, I resolved to start stop something and
then I decided very definitively to start something else, you know,
but it happened. It happened. I wouldn't have done it
(18:50):
without Catherine like that. That just there's no scenario where
it happened without her. You know. She said to me,
would you ever start a wine you know, uh, a
wine brand? And I said, not without you? And literally
the next day we were, you know, we were you know,
in it starting you know, the process. You closed one
door and Katherine was the next door. So Katherine, what
(19:13):
about you? You are I guess a serial entrepreneur. I
mean you just have been a CEO, You've worked at
some major places. We have some things in common. I
think your family was in the horse racing business, which
my father was in the Hall of Fame. You know that, Yes,
I do now remember that. Yes, how funny My father
was a Hall of Fame horse trainer, Bobby Frankel. So
(19:34):
was your family trainers or all night? They're still they're
still in the horse business. They own my mom trains. Um,
they have a horse transportation company. So very deep into
that world. Okay, um, and so what has your trajectory
been and what what about growing up? Did you what
(19:54):
was success to you? And was it sort of drilled
into you? And how did you find your way and
and how did you come to this point? And I
also actually really want to know how you can Are
you running this business and you're running your other business?
So this is one of your many businesses and you're
the operations person. Yeah, it's a it's a it's a
great question. So I, um, we have a fantastic CEO
(20:17):
for aveline that we brought in. I run two companies
currently in the beauty space, and I sit on the
board of all four of my companies. Um, including aveline,
but we you know, managed to find an outstanding CEO
who comes from uh the wine industry, UM, but had
a really you know, it was really hungry for innovation
(20:38):
and kind of saw the opportunity that we saw not
only in the better for you positioning, but I think
in the way that we speak to consumers and in
the way that we market the brand in a way
that was just not existing in an alcohol UM. But
you know, I really started, you know, as a entrepreneur.
You know, from the day I was born, I was
(20:59):
trying to make a buck, whether it was you know,
selling uh tickets to my neighbors to come see a
show I'd put on in my grandmother's garage, or you know,
using my play kitchen to open a restaurant. I was
always just looking to you know, transact and and make
some money. So I had a very non traditional education path.
(21:21):
I finished high school early because I was a very
serious dancer, and then I just started working when I
was about seventeen full time. Didn't go to college. UM,
you know, started out in the film industry, actually working
for a producer, UM. And that was my first I
really wanted to produce. I loved the idea of putting
(21:43):
the right people together and the right storytelling and creating
a product. And it's a lot like what I do today.
It's just I was going to say that, but I
I got out of film because I was so frustrated
that everything took so long. So I found the Internet
and UM. I originally started as West Coast editor of
L magazine and of L Girl, which was the team
(22:06):
magazine at the time. And you know, I was in
my early twenties and I was spending all my time
on the Internet, UM and on these new social media platforms,
and realizing I couldn't get the same kind of content
I got in a print magazine on the Internet. So
I I launched my first company called Who What Where,
which is an online fashion magazine UM. I launched it
(22:30):
fifteen years ago. We turned it into UH, an apparel
business UM and so it's still, you know, running today
as one of the most popular, you know, online fashion
magazines and UM. And then I launched two beauty brands.
One is called Verst. It's a skincare brand that's distributed
through you know, drug store and mass retail channels. It's
(22:53):
all clean. UM were the largest beauty brand to be
carbon neutral, the most sustainable in the mass category. UM.
And then just this year, I launched a brand called Merit,
which is clean color cosmetics. UM. It's distributed primarily through Sephora.
There's there's Cameron showing us a little blush. But all
(23:17):
my brands are you know, digital first. They're born on
social media. We sell direct to consumer as well as
partner with amazing brick and mortar retailers like Target and
Sephora to really bring the products and make them accessible
to you know, two people everywhere. And that's always been
my goal is to kind of bring the more aspirational
(23:39):
and make it a bit more accessible. And I think,
you know Aveline is a perfect example of that. And
we you know, with our strategy and launching the brand.
You know, usually when you when you create a wine label,
you start at you know, restaurants and you you know,
educate the similiaise and the in the customers and then
(23:59):
you know, eventually, if you're lucky, you get to to retail.
But we started with retail. I think we're in about
four thousand doors now, but really just focusing on you know,
everywhere this customer is already shopping so that we can
be there to offer you know, a better fore you solution.
Great concept. So we've put together an amazing team that
(24:22):
that has really built it out. We're just over a
year old, UM, and it was just perfect timing I
think for for this offering. Well, what's the structure. I
want to know about several women working together. I want
to know how that dynamic is. I want to know
how you make decisions, how management happens. All of that.
I mean, I think people could learn from that. We
(24:43):
talk a lot about culture, management, finding good people, struggles,
that sort of thing. Yeah, I mean, there's so many
different ways to build a business, and you know, I
think we initially just set out to meet with anyone
remotely connected to this industry because it is so different
than what we're both familiar with based on our backgrounds.
(25:03):
But UM, then there are fundamentals that are very similar.
So you know, we we hired the right CEO, We
basically put together the founding team. We you know, funded
the business and UM just raised some outside capital at
the end of last year. But really it's just starting
with who's that leader UM at the top, and then
(25:26):
you know, supporting them as they built the rest of
the team. I um brought in a young woman who
had worked with me for a number of years on
the who What We're brand and incubating my skin care
brand UM, and she now works over with with Abbott,
who's our CEO. So it's kind of you know, old
school and new school converging. And you know, we've been
(25:48):
really incredibly lucky with the team that Abbott has helped
us put together. But you know, Cameron and I sit
on the board of Aveline and we're the co founders,
so we participate in, you know, all of the product development.
So really nothing UM goes in a bottle without us UM,
you know, going through many iterations to get it just perfect.
(26:11):
And Cameron and I source the original UH wine making
partners ourselves before we even and brought the team on UM.
You know this is this is definitely not UH you know,
a sort of bulk wine project or a celebrity wine brand.
We you know, we're pretty discerning you know, wine drinkers,
and went out and scoured the globe for the perfect
(26:35):
partners who could kind of nail the taste profile that
we wanted. Super lucky to find them, and and now
we you know, we participate in a lot of the
activities from you know, our retailer partnerships to um Press
of course, and and mainly product development is where we
spend a lot of time. I swear to god, I
(27:09):
woke up this morning thinking there's two SIPs of water
in that bottle next to my bed, and camer Diaz
has a bottle of water in her bathroom, so she
wakes up to wash her face that she drinks the
whole bottle, and it just I mean, I try, but
tell me about the discipline for you, because you don't
make it like it's easy. Use the way it's described,
(27:31):
and I may have read everything wrong, is that like
you you have one night and you cook your meals
for the week, and this is a you're very regimented
about it because it's important to you, and I want
to hear the r o I on it, the return
on your investment on this health showgram of yours. Well,
I mean, look at consistency is key in anything that
you do. If you're doing anything consistently bad, you're going
(27:52):
to get bad, the results are not going to be
in your favor. And if you do things consistently good,
then you're likely to get more. I'm a new mom,
so you know, I'm two years deep into caring for
another human being other than myself where you know, I
find those challenges myself as a mom, um and I
(28:14):
you know, I love it and it's amazing, but it
does switch up a little bit of your ability to um,
you know, meal prep for yourself. So right now I'm
on a you know, luckily, I feed everything the same
to my child as I do myself. Sheets, everything I
do so I can scrape off her meals doubled it exactly. Um.
(28:39):
But yeah, I I feel like, you know, water though,
is like that's just a you know, a no brainer
for me. That's not even that doesn't take any effort,
because I think that one of the main things for
you know, um, just honoring yourself is listening to your body.
And my body will always tell me when it needs water,
(28:59):
and I try never to let it suffer too much
without it. It's one of the main things that I,
you know, I do. I happen to be able to
manage to keep disciplined about And what about sleep? Sleep?
The regimented nature about sleep. Sleep is important. I mean,
it's more more than anything I think, you know, it's
one of those things where you keep learning even more
(29:21):
and more about what sleep. Um you know what it
does for us, how important it is, and I'm fortunately
able to get a pretty good night's sleep. Sleeping is
about for me, like it is about a routine of
shutting down my brain, you know, Like I have a
very specific, you know, procedure of shut down that I
never no matter what, I always do. Um so that
(29:45):
no phones and you put the phone in another room,
it stops at certain times. No, I don't do phones.
I do know electronics in my room period. There's like
not any rate, not not even a light. I don't
cover up everything. The smoke detector as a you know,
a piece of tape over it's so the light. I
don't see the light like I know. Electronics, no television,
(30:07):
no fans, no rick clocks plugged in, no anything. It
is like, yeah, I love that. It's a very big part.
It's I'm gonna I have to start then, I have
to try that because I feel like we complain about
our sleep, but then we don't really do enough about it.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna start that. The device
is number one that's the worst. If you go to
your health app. You have you ever checked out your
(30:30):
house the sleep on your health app on your iPhone,
but it's going to be bad. If you go to
your sleep at app, you can look at you can
set up like your what time your phone like basically
will stop taking in calls or anything for like any
calls will come in and it room. It comes up
on your screen like this is your time for your
(30:51):
shutdown forty five minutes before bedtime to you, and then
you can set your hours that you your desired hours
of sleep for at night. So if you want to
get eight hours, it basically shuts you down forty five
minutes before um, your your bedtime, so that you have
that time. I love that because even if you don't sleep,
(31:11):
you're laying resting sort of in a meditative state versus
being I called activated. Yeah, it's also just to remind you,
like it's time to put your phone down, Like I
love forty five minutes on you're not getting any more
phone calls, the color of the screen changes. Um. You
can kind of go through all that. I've been using
that for the last few months and it's been really helpful.
(31:33):
I'm starting tonight. What mistakes have you made in this process?
What mistakes can we learn from? Well, I think early
on we had no idea how much wine we were
going We were told we were told a lot. We
we went to people asking them like how much wine
should we buy? And you know, nobody really believed in
(31:55):
what we were doing, so they gave us a really
low ball, and so we kind of went in with, um,
you know, kind of bottling a very minimal amount and
found out as we started to get to market that
you know, we had our plan actually was working like
we had planned to get it into retailers and and
(32:16):
we ended up having to sort of like you know,
and in wine, the problem is is that you know,
it's there's a finite amount of it. It grows so
only so much grows on every vine every year, and
it's produced in the regions that you're buying your grapes
from that you're making your wine in. And you know,
because we came in late even to that purchase for
(32:37):
that vintage, we had um you know, they're half the
most of the wine was bought, Our grapes were bought
up and so being able to like find get get
more our providers to make us more wine at this
you know, late you can't just all of a sudden
have more grapes, you know what I mean. So, um, yeah,
(32:59):
I got it by the same token. It could have
been the opposite and you could have ordered too much
and then it would have been another different panic. Well
that's what we're afraid of, you know. But we had
also done all that before we even understood, like we
were just getting our footing in the three tier system
and what that meant, you know, and trying to find
it an importer and trying to find you know, we
hadn't even gotten our distributor yet. And once we got
(33:21):
in with our distributor, um, you know, we had we
started seeing really that we could be effective in the
way that we wanted to. So Catherine, why, um, what
mistakes did you make? Like things that you regret or
that you did wrong or you would have done differently?
Besides that, Yeah, you know, I don't think that anything
has been a mistake yet. I think you know, listen,
(33:42):
there will be lots of ups and downs like there
are with any of the businesses. But um, you know,
Cameron and I are just big problem solvers. That's what
we love to do. So any time that you know,
we would kind of hit a roadblock or hear no
from someone, we just well, how do we you know,
who's going to tell us? Yes, let's figure it out.
(34:04):
So I think you know it's it's um, you know,
sometimes even if things don't go exactly as you planned,
I truly believe it all happens for a reason. And
there's another you know, something around that next turn, and
you'll you'll learn why. But we were not so far
into this yet that we we can point at something
(34:26):
other than you know, just um, you know, blowing through
our goals so quickly. But um, I'm sure those times
will come, as they always do. And what are you
up against now? And was I mean people were drinking
more during the pandemic? But did you I mean when
you when exactly did you launch what we launched in
um July of last year. So that was I mean,
(34:49):
that was a challenge. You know, we were in a pandemic. Luckily,
you know, for better or worse, alcohol consumption was up
across the country in and so you know it worked
out for us. We were able to provide at least um,
you know, a cleaner option for everybody if they were
going to be drinking more. But it's UM, you know,
now it's just about keeping up the momentum. We're scaling
(35:10):
incredibly fast, so it's again just you know, solidifying the
supply chain and UM, you know, making sure that everything
meets our quality standards and and getting it on shelves
and you know, improving velocity as we go. And UM
wasn't a time to sort of nest and nurture and
(35:30):
realize how you can do things differently business wise, meaning streamlining.
You don't need as many employees, as much travel, as
much expenses, and we're able to streamline the business. Yeah,
I mean just you know, for me, my, my all
of my businesses, I think it was such a year
of UM of reset and you know I am. I'm
(35:53):
so grateful for some of the silver linings that came
out of UM this experience. You know, like less travel
and we would fly to I'd fly to Minnesota for one,
you know, one hour meeting, or UM to San Francisco
constantly for you know an hour meeting and now UM,
you know, so many things can be done over zoom
(36:14):
and listen. We would not have been able to meet
with all of the retailers. If if we had you know,
if this hadn't happened, We've been able to meet with
every single one on Zoom. It's amazing and we just
could not have done that with you know, our schedules
as far as travel. So that was such a blessing. Um.
And you know, I think it's it's just things like that,
(36:37):
to being able to save money on on you know,
office space and travel for these new companies. It's it's
been it's been good. Now that is finding a silver lining.
So you said that you didn't go to college. I
don't know if you did, Cameron. But do you have kids, Catherine?
I do. I have a four year old boy. Okay,
So where do you both stand on college? I mean,
obviously there's no right answer, but do you other college
(37:00):
isn't for everyone? And what do you think about what
do you both think about the benefit of getting into
sort of the workforce and getting on the road if
you know what you want to do, versus taking those
minimal minimum four years for college. I'm actually curious to
hear what you say, Kim. I personally believe that on
the job training is the most valuable thing that you
can do. I think that if you can immerse yourself
(37:23):
into something, especially it's something that you love and or
you even just think that you love and you immerse
yourself and find out that you don't and you move on,
um before you get it for your education and something,
and then realize that the work that you have to
do with that education isn't where you want to exist.
You know. I think that there's obviously, you know, there's
(37:45):
certain there are certain um you know, you can't be
a lawyer without going to college. So if you're a doctor,
so those educations are important. But I think that there's
so many um you know, avenue is to um, you know,
a career that does not require um a college degree
(38:07):
that are very gratifying and have the same possibilities, if
not more of success. Um you know it. I think also,
you know, going into something like with Catherine and I did,
into an industry that we knew nothing about and learning
about it as we sort of pushed ourselves through. You know,
there's the value of that is like your instinct you know,
(38:29):
you get to really sort of use your instincts in
a way rather than sort of thinking about just what
you've learned in school, like you get to like trust
your gut a little bit more and be a little
bit more um you know, uh, I don't you know
like exactly. You know, well that was in your former career.
(38:49):
That was also probably very the way you literally, you know,
navigated an entire career. So it's probably helped you being
able to just like feel it and no one it
feels right and what it doesn't feel right? You know,
and go through college. I I'm terrible at school. I
was terrible. I don't I don't even remember. I don't
even know how I graduated. I literally think they just
(39:09):
gave me my diploma because I shut up enough days
at school. I have no It's funny. I don't like
school either. I wanted to be on the road. I
wanted to be in the game. I wanted to put
me in coach. It's so funny. But and so don't
waste the time. Yeah, And I think with the Internet
and just all of the examples today of different types
of entrepreneurs, you know, you can create your own body
(39:32):
of work, right, You don't need the traditional kind of
uh you know, education or work experience. Really you can
kind of become your own you know, content creator becomes
you know, florist and sell it online or whatever it is.
It's true. All that said, All that said, I probably
will encourage, you know, my kids to go to college
(39:54):
because I think it's like if if that's something that
they're if they're not as certain as I was, because
I think it's it's it's a unique person that you know,
has that much drive to or certainty around what they
want to do, and that doesn't work out for everyone.
So I certainly want to I think encourage it more
than maybe I was encouraged, you know when I was young,
(40:15):
because I think you get a lot of great life
experience out of it. You know, it's a transitional period
too in your life from being in the nest. Yeah.
I mean it's not for it's not for everybody, and
it's not for us to design. I was just curious
what your stance was, and it depends upon the individual.
I think that it totally depends on the person. Person. Yeah,
I think it's individual. And it's also look, now, everybody
(40:37):
can afford to go to college, and a lot of
people take on debt because they can, exactly and they
don't always do it because they really feel that they
know what it is. They just they're told that they're
supposed to have a college exactly. So you know, yeah,
I feel like it's just I don't think that if
it's if what if you're the person that you're talking about, Catherine,
who's like really knows and wants to go for it
(40:58):
and can you know, is willing to take on that debt.
But I think it's just culturally, our country and our
society has this idea that college is the is the
path to success, and I don't I just don't think
that that's necessarily true. So Cameron, what percentage do you
think you're lucky? And what percentage do you think you're smart? Love?
(41:19):
I mean, I really don't even know how to answer
that question. I feel like I'm not dead, so I
have to be smart enough to have not die doing
everything that I've done in my life. So some whatever
kind of smart that is, I've got a lot of that. Okay,
(41:39):
that's smart, that's smart. But do you consider yourself lucky? Um?
I definitely, I feel like, you know, I think that
all of us are. You know, yes, I definitely think
I'm lucky, But I also don't know how you quantify
it luck, you know what I mean, I can't. I
think that it goes back to you know, having um.
(42:00):
You know, I think one thing that I definitely feel
like is that the doors that open. Not everybody sees
the doors that open and are know to walk through
them right or are willing to push themselves through them
or to do the work to keep them open long
enough to where they you know, they can see the
(42:21):
other side of them. Like I know that one thing
that I've had my entire life since I was like
I can remember is work ethic. And you know, I
worked my ass off for you know, up until I
stopped making movies. And now I'm pretty lazy, you know,
(42:42):
but I used to do I used to have a
really high you know, work drive and um and that
I know pushed me through, like you know, my success
in a lot of ways, you know, but certainly because
of you know, there's a lot of there. There was
a ton of luck involved, for sure. And then I'll
ask uh, both of you, but kathn press your rose
(43:04):
and thorn of your career, not of your not of
your family life, but your rose and thorn of your
whole career. Man um. I think the rose is always,
you know, getting to see something that you've envisioned in
your mind and have worked so hard to bring to fruition,
like in the hands of a consumer. For me, that's
(43:28):
very you know, very exciting, um just to see the
reaction or the impact that you know as as uh
you know, it's it's fashion and beauty, but like sometimes
it can be so meaningful to help somebody you know,
afford a new outfit that they then go to a
job interview and get that job or have acne and
(43:51):
feel like, you know, we've changed their life because their
skin has cleared up. Like that just makes me so happy,
you know, not only because I've spent so much time
kind of creating this and it's in their hands, but
just the response that has gotten I think is probably
the rose for me and my thorn. I don't know
(44:13):
if I don't know if if I see anything as
a true thorn. I think, you know, I've had some
really you know, uncomfortable times, but again, I've been doing
this long enough to understand that everything happens for a reason,
and I always end up in like a better place
after having gone through something. That's the Matthew McConaughey green light,
(44:37):
He says, his red lights were green lights. You don't
know it at the time, but the things that are
negative totally became green lights. So that's that's that's interesting
to change in course, right, And what about you, Cameron,
do you know you're Rose and Thorne. I think, you know,
I really feel so grateful that I got to do
(44:58):
what I did for so long. You know, I loved
making movies. I loved um being able to I love
the process of making movies. I loved every you know,
the opportunity to be on set and work with all
the people that I worked with, and to be able
to tell stories and put them into the world and
also affect people's lives, give them something to laugh about,
(45:19):
something to think about. All the things that you know,
films have done sort of you know, historically through our
society of like really sort of being that camp fire
that people gather around. I really feel so fortunate to
be able to be a part of that, you know,
and so, you know, and it's made my life in
so many ways, you know, so incredible, you know, So
(45:42):
I just I'm very grateful for it. I think that
for me, you know, have sort of calling it when
I did was the right thing for myself, even though
I loved doing it. I sort of mountain next phase
of life for me, which I'm really enjoying. That's nice. Thorn, Um,
I think I like Catherine. It's sort of like, you know,
(46:03):
it's it's hard to really um say that anything in
my life is there's a thorn? You know what I mean,
there's not. It's so blessed. I'm so lucky. There's so
many aspects of my life that I just there's nothing
that I could say. You know, I always say, if
(46:24):
it's if I complain, you know, punch me in the face.
That's so nice. And then and then in um, for
both of you, what in your life is one thing
that you could say that has just worked? In relationship?
Do you either of you have any um pearls? We'll
find a good therapist. Okay. I like that. Check something
(46:50):
that that has really helped me as as sort of
like a guiding principle in not uh you know, I
exercise it in my romantic relations ship as well. But
something I discovered with my my first co founder, UM
my business who what where my partner Hillary? You know,
we would the way we would kind of look at
(47:11):
decision making or when we would kind of come to
a place where we weren't seeing eye to eye, it
was kind of like, whoever felt most strongly about their opinion,
we went with it. And you know, there weren't a
lot of you know, there weren't a lot of big
dramatic moments by any means, but it just we got
(47:32):
into this rhythm of that's kind of how we made decisions,
and we would always support the other person if they
felt more strongly and amazing. It's just a good practice
for any relationship. I love that and also it but
it's foundation is honesty because everybody can't be dramatic about
like no, this is the thing. You can't cry wealth
(47:54):
every time. So that's really a good one, like your battles,
you know, yeah, I like that. Okay, great, and there
the asked one Cameron, Um, it's very similar to that.
I mean, just that's one of the things that is
like is one to tend what is it for you?
If it's a six for me and it's an eight
for you, or if it's a you know, a nine
(48:15):
for me and a tend for you, then we we
sort of you know, give it to the person who
feels the most strongly about it. But I also think,
I think like honesty obviously is very important, but vulnerability
is super important. You know, just being able to say
how you feel regardless of how the other person is
(48:35):
going to receive it, that you just are allow yourself
to practice to you know, being um acknowledging your own feelings.
I love that being present with that. Well, you were
both very present with me, and I'm glad we got
to talk about your business. But I get a sense
of you as business women and as human beings. And UM,
(48:55):
I am glad you trusted me with this time. I
really appreciate the time, and UM excited about what you
guys are doing. And I'm excited to have a glass
of this right after this conversation. So thank you so
much for this conversation. So great to meet you. Thank you, Bethany.
(49:18):
Catherine and Cameron were interesting. I don't often do a
two person interview, but their partners, and I believe that
camera doesn't do very many interviews, and I wanted to
respect the new path that she's on. Uh, this show
isn't about gossip or gotcha as you know, and I
wanted to have a real conversation about the brand, but
(49:41):
also get a sense of who they are as people,
as as two business women, as two mothers, uh, and
as to two women very focused on health and wellness.
So I'm so grateful, and you know, in me trying
to be respectful of certain people's privacy and how to
have a conversation but still get you and myself what
(50:02):
I want me to hear and learn about their business.
You know, it takes effort. And I loved the conversation.
I loved the experience, and I'm really grateful to them
for trusting me with the conversation. That's honestly one of
the biggest parts of the takeaway. They were wonderful and
really good nice people. So that was a pleasure, and
I'm honored and humbled and remember to rate, review and subscribe.
(50:25):
Thank you so much, and I'm loving it.
I want to know why famous women only date famous men.
I've never dated a famous man. I don't even meet
famous men. I don't. I mean, I know some, but
I would think that there would be so how could
there be enough oxygen for two famous people. I guess
they say they know what they're going they know what
they're going through, they understand the life, the business, et cetera.
(00:35):
But that is so much oxygen being taken up. Meaning
for example, so Kelly RiPP is a friend of mine,
and she and Mark Consuls are both famous, but she
says he's the peacock, and so she goes to her
work every day. But it almost feels to her like
a nine to five, even though it's not literally a
nine to five, And he's more of like the colorful
(00:57):
peacock in the relationship, so it ounces there, but they're
both not out every you know, three days at a
film festival, at movie premieres, at so it would seem
hard and maybe that's why a lot of Hollywood relationships
don't work out. But I also see that a lot
of Hollywood women only go for major Hollywood men. So
(01:22):
is that an ego thing or is that a thing
where they understand each other's lives or is that sort
of you need someone good enough for you, you you know,
I like being I have never dated someone who had
a real social media presence or interest. Um my fancy
(01:43):
Paul has an account because he's produced movies, but he
never post supposed a picture of me once a year
or something. And I've always liked that. And you think
about that in this day and age, and all the
people that I've gone out with have not had it.
And I do social media now a little bit of
TikTok because it's a little fun and stupid and still
and I found my way that it's idiotic, which is
(02:03):
what I love in life. But I only do it
for work. So, um, I would find it very annoying
if I had, if I was in a relationship with
a man who was wanting to always be photographed and
take pictures and look at me and filters and all
that I would find, I would I would actually hate that.
So I just think it's interesting, Um, public people dating
(02:24):
public people and what that is about. I think that
people are afraid, right, you know, mere mortals, not not celebrities.
People are afraid to negotiate while in a relationship about
what is in the relationship. People will eventually talk about
pre nups. People will talk about so many different things.
(02:44):
We're going there, let's go here, We're going on this vacation,
We're not going on vacation. You're Jewish, I'm Catholic, whatever.
But people don't really negotiate about what they're doing. And
I don't mean, like, what are we doing now? You
know it's been three months? Are we exclusive or we're
not exclusive? I understand that, and people do do that,
But negotiating things that are your wants and your needs,
things that you really just can't there will be a
(03:06):
deal breaker because a good relationship means the other person
will hear you, and, if not immediately, eventually really try
and work hard to give you what you want. But
when I say the negotiating, so there are certain things.
Paul and I have a house in Massachusetts. Um, that's
where his kids live, and we renovated it and made
(03:27):
it nice, and he really well, even though when we
first met, I was in New York and I always
wanted to be in New York and that was just understood, Um,
he needs me to be there and to come to Massachusetts.
And I made it clear that in the summer. I
really just the summer is where the Hampton's are, my home,
(03:48):
my happy place, my daughter's home. You know, it's just
a place. So those are needs, and those are things
that were negotiated before. I hear a lot of relationships
where people don't talk about these things that come up,
meaning okay, how many times a month? Not that you
have to stick to this. It doesn't mean it has
to be like black, you know, and I am clad
contract because obviously things happen. Paul's family is a place
in Nantucket. We go to Nantucket, which is beautiful, Um,
(04:10):
which you know, he needs to see his family, and
that's a need and um it's it's amazing. And but
I mean like saying, okay, well, how how often do
you visit your parents? Like what is going to that
going to be in this relationship. Some people want the
other person to see their parents every Sunday for dinner
or every other weekend, or that the parents stay with them.
(04:32):
Like these things are often not negotiated beforehand, so you
understand what's going on, because these are the cracks that
can become creators where for me, I wouldn't be interested
in my husband fiance boyfriend's parents coming to stay with
me every two weeks. I think that would be that
would be too much for me. I also don't come
from a big family dynamic, and that might be I'm
very private, and I don't you know, it might be
(04:54):
a little invasive. As luck would have it, Paul's family
is just like camp. Paul doesn't love to be again
best like myself. He doesn't love to really have guests
that often, and he sort of stands on ceremony, meaning
he's not someone who would ever walk right into someone's
house and expect something. And even with his family, there
are just ways that things are planned. Everybody's different. None
of this is right or wrong. It just means that
(05:16):
it's something that we knew about each other. I'm not
very social. I don't I'm not out every night with
multiple groups of people and always people just stopping by.
And my house is just always crowded with people, and
neither as Paul. We're very insular people in that regard.
We make plans and have a great time, but we're
not just always activated. We both share that. So I
think it's interesting and smart too negotiate in a relationship,
(05:41):
not a pre nup. Not what are we doing and
how serious are we and what are we getting married,
but what your wants and needs are and if they
line up, And that's sort of a negotiation. Okay, I'll
come to Massachusetts often during the you know, around the year,
but I really want to be in the Hampton's in
the summer. So that's that's in agotiation. That's like a
deal point, a relationship deal point. Um, you know, you
(06:04):
love Nantucket and you grew up going there, so we're
gonna go there a certain amount of periods, uh, during
the summer. Like I said, you're a person who likes
to go out late and I don't, So I'll do
that with you every once in a while. Or you
like to go to you know, fish concerts, but that's
not who I am. So that's gonna be a rarity.
So either you do that with your friends without me,
or I'll come once in a while, but that's not
(06:26):
who I am. You know, I don't love going to big,
like crowded concerts and things like that, food festivals or
things like that. Like so, so doesn't mean I'm not
going to go. It just means you're letting someone know
who you really are. So you can see if you
can possibly make them happy. If I was somebody who
wanted to go out to two o'clock in the morning
once a week, or partied or did drugs or wanted
(06:46):
to try molly or something like that, Paul would not
be interested in that. You know, he's never tried to
drug in his entire life. So what do you think
about negotiating in your relationship? What do you think about
terms and things and deal breakers and who you are
and who you're not. It sounds ridiculous. You know. If
you show someone who you are, they should believe you.
But people think things are gonna change. And it happens
with in laws, It happens with religion, It happens with family,
(07:09):
It happens with sex, It happens with therapy. Are you
someone who will go to therapy? If you're not, it's
cute in the beginning when you when you hit a
fucking robock and your partners is't wanna go to therapy,
it's not cute anymore. Um, do you like the other
person's in laws? Yeah, but if they're walking into your
house unannounced, uh, every week, you might not like them
that much. So is that you know, can you let
(07:29):
the other person who you are, so at least you
can go back and say, we agreed upon this. You know,
we agreed upon this thing. I said that, I made
that clear. Now, obviously things can change and someone can
change about it, but you can't just blow up a
whole deal. You can't later just retrade on a lot
of things. So I just think it's great to establish
the terms. And I know this from work. The more
(07:49):
you lay out, the better the contract is. You don't
want to get tedious and get caught up in it.
But when you're at the end of a contract, that's
when you really get into being creative about different things.
Can get what you want because you could get jammed
up on points, but if you're creative about other things,
then it could work like things that you sometimes given
a negotiation in business, making other the other partner so
(08:10):
happy that they don't mind these other deal terms. And
everybody has things they want to do and things they
don't want to do in a deal, a good deal
means both partners are happy and also slightly uncomfortable, and
that's a relationship. That's a partnership. So tell me what
you all think about that. Today, My guests are Captain
(08:36):
Power and Cameron Diaz. They went into business together with
one goal to make clean, delicious wine, and they did
just that with the launch of Avelene Wine. Today we
find out about how they went from friends to business
partners and all of their highs and lows breaking into
the wine industry. I love their story and even got
some great advice. I can't wait for you to listen.
(08:59):
I Hi, how are you? Hi? There? Hi both of you.
I read that the two of you met um in
a backyard. It was of one of your homes. Other people, Well,
we've we've we've spent a lot of time in in
our backyards. But we met through Cameron's sister in law,
Nicole Ritchie, who has been one of my best friends
for twenty years. And when Cameron started dating her now husband.
(09:24):
We met because his twin brother is Nippole's husband. And
where did you You both grew up in California? Correct?
We did? Yeah, and in some of like not so
far from each other, right, Like didn't you both grew
up in near San Diego? World's apart? World apart geographically?
Not really, yeah, relatively relatively close. It's not like you
(09:48):
grew up on you know, I grew up on the
East coast and you grew up on the West coast.
Like we were within a vicinity of one another geographically
that you know, we can call each other, we can
say we're both Southern Californians. Yes, and both have later
in life and both sort of found converged with wellness
and health being sort of on the forefront, but both
(10:10):
coming from two very different backgrounds. You sort of met
at this vortex of wellness and are basically in an
entirely new business. It seems like it's starting a whole
new venture. Yeah, for both of us. You know. That's saying,
find something you love to do and then figure out
a way to get paid for it. And that's what
we're doing here because we love wine and we you know,
(10:33):
I'm an entrepreneur. I spend most of my time, um,
you know, building brands in beauty and fashion for the
mostly millennial and gen z um and Cameron, although she's
a movie stars, is deep into wellness, having having written
two books on the body that are essentially science books
and former movie stall That's what I mean. This is
(10:59):
an you business and people don't well are you sorry?
Catherine Are you still in the beauty business. Are you're
still working on those projects? Yes, very much. So okay,
So and this sort of happened. You know, my my
brands are all kind of they have similar themes, clean ingredients,
sustainable supply chains, super accessible, whether it's through you know,
(11:22):
distribution channel or price point. And we were just sitting
there drinking wine, and we were talking about, you know,
should we open another bottle, and we started to say
to each other, you know, we just don't feel that
great when we, you know, drink wine anymore, and I
wonder what's in this? And we you know, we turned
the bottle around and we were reminded that, you know,
(11:42):
wine is one of the only consumables where you have
no ingredient list and no nutrition facts. And we kind
of said, like, it's just grapes, right, And that set
us out on a journey to really learn the wine
making process and understand what potentially goes in that bottle. Um.
And then when we learned, you know, and and started
(12:04):
on that journey, I think we were compelled to share
it with more people and to kind of offer a
solution um, you know, because we were trying to drink
you know, cleaner wine wine with with organic grapes and
low intervention and low additives, and it was really hard
to find. So we felt like if it was hard
(12:24):
to find here, it's hard you know, for for everybody
throughout the US. The hard part about it was just transparency.
You know. It wasn't that it wasn't on the shelf.
It was just that we couldn't identify it on the shelf.
We saw that in the wine industry in particular, because
of that lack of you know, they don't have to
put anything on the label. It's T t B, not
(12:46):
f d A, so they don't there's no requirements to
put anything ingredients on the label. So you know, you're
walking down the aisle and there could be two under
bottles surrounding you. And we just found that, you know,
in this industry, it's it's not a practice, it's not
what they the industry itself deems important to the drinker. Um,
(13:07):
there's a whole other, you know, list of items that
will be sort of discussed first before the ingredients of
the bottle. You know, you know, it's effectively like creating
a new category of transparent wine. I mean, in creating
a new category is very difficult to do something different
in the liquor industry. I don't own the that part
(13:28):
of the brand anymore, but I was the first ever
low calorie ready to drink cocktail. It's the same thing
where um, sometimes things are so stupid they're smart, like
a big deal, it's a low calorie margharita. I started with,
this is making perfect sense to me. It's true like
everything else, you read an ingredient list, and I wrote
a book saying eat things with ingredients you can pronounce.
(13:48):
So you, guys, really we're all shooting blind by drinking
and not knowing what's in it. So I love that
that is a game changer concept. Um Cameron, I read
that you didn't grow up with a really a lot
of healthy eating habits. So what was your socioeconomic background
and what was your childhood like? And did you have drive?
Did you want to be a business person like is
(14:08):
now you're an entrepreneur? Yes? Um, you know, I think
I grew up in Long Beach, California, which is pretty
um expansive, it's pretty large area. But I grew up
in a in an area that was sort of you know, um,
very um urban and uh you know, I kind of well,
(14:31):
I wouldn't say urban like the city, but it was
very um, I guess there's a lot of concrete we were.
I just kind of grew up in a sort of
lower middle class area, other side of the tracks. Um,
success to me was not staying in Long Beach. What
was success for me? I left as soon as I
(14:52):
graduated high school. I left Long Beach and you know,
started traveling and that was something that that was all
I really had ambition for was to to do that,
and it's just sort of escalated, you know, my life
kind of. I just kind of followed life as it
took me. And that was just with inside of you,
Like you were born that way, you had internal drive
that you just wanted to go be something, do something.
(15:13):
You thought you had it. Yeah, I mean no, I
didn't think I had anything. I just knew I didn't.
You know, Long Beach wasn't where I was going to be.
I wasn't where I was going to stay. I mean,
I love Long Beach. I go back to Long Beach.
I think Long Beach is a great place. But for me,
I just kind of knew that it was very limited
there and I didn't have any you know, education. I
(15:34):
didn't have any money. I didn't have you know, all
the things that looked like how you got out of
someplace or how you advanced your life. You know, Um,
college was not an option. My parents didn't have money.
I didn't you know, they didn't push me really to
go after any one career. UM. I just sort of went,
(15:56):
I want to see the world. I want to travel,
and so I did. Now you are a female entrepreneur,
which is different than your previous career, where that wouldn't
(16:18):
have been something that someone would have said. And do
you feel a greater sense of control? Do you feel
that you're taking more seriously? Do you feel like you're
perceived to be smarter? I mean, how does it feel
to make that trajectory and monetize something that you're passionate about?
You know. I this is something that I think started
off for Catherine and I as I mean, look, Katherine's
(16:39):
a serial entrepreneur, so she's going to she she knows
how to build businesses. It's something that's very new to me.
And I had, you know, sort of resigned from making movies. UM,
and I felt that I was just you know, not
really needing to do much more. It wasn't something that
I was looking for, but when we sort of started
(17:02):
off talking about it, it just we had so much
fun about the possible what we thought the possibilities could be.
And of course then we started dreaming, and then we
as we started dreaming, we were doing and we found
ourselves really just sort of like taking each step um
forward and you know, really learning a language completely. As
(17:23):
you know, Bethany, it's a complete it's a language and
of itself. The industry is very specific to itself. Um,
there's nothing you know that I think that Katherine and
I could have taken from directly from the businesses that
we were both in and applied to even I think
in the financial models and all of the ways that
(17:45):
you have to get that product to the shelf. Um
is a completely different you know, it's a different language.
If you knew that, if you knew what you didn't know,
you wouldn't have done it. And also I've heard many
people speak about and Katherine, you haven't left your other career,
and we'll get into that now, but I've heard many
people coming on here say that they leave one part
(18:07):
of their career, not for anything bad, they just they
did everything they needed to do there they didn't they
could do with their eyes closed. They weren't inspired. They
just they did. They checked all the boxes, and now
they want something else. And now you're doing something you're
passionate about. So people ask a lot about when to move,
when to make a move, and it can be scary.
I'm sure it was scary, but that's when you jump,
(18:29):
when you fly. So I think that's inspiring. Yeah. I
think having resolved about having resolve about anything, you know,
whether it's resolved to stop something or resolve to start something.
Like you know, I resolved to start stop something and
then I decided very definitively to start something else, you know,
but it happened. It happened. I wouldn't have done it
(18:50):
without Catherine like that. That just there's no scenario where
it happened without her. You know. She said to me,
would you ever start a wine you know, uh, a
wine brand? And I said, not without you? And literally
the next day we were, you know, we were you know,
in it starting you know, the process. You closed one
door and Katherine was the next door. So Katherine, what
(19:13):
about you? You are I guess a serial entrepreneur. I
mean you just have been a CEO, You've worked at
some major places. We have some things in common. I
think your family was in the horse racing business, which
my father was in the Hall of Fame. You know that, Yes,
I do now remember that. Yes, how funny My father
was a Hall of Fame horse trainer, Bobby Frankel. So
(19:34):
was your family trainers or all night? They're still they're
still in the horse business. They own my mom trains. Um,
they have a horse transportation company. So very deep into
that world. Okay, um, and so what has your trajectory
been and what what about growing up? Did you what
(19:54):
was success to you? And was it sort of drilled
into you? And how did you find your way and
and how did you come to this point? And I
also actually really want to know how you can Are
you running this business and you're running your other business?
So this is one of your many businesses and you're
the operations person. Yeah, it's a it's a it's a
great question. So I, um, we have a fantastic CEO
(20:17):
for aveline that we brought in. I run two companies
currently in the beauty space, and I sit on the
board of all four of my companies. Um, including aveline,
but we you know, managed to find an outstanding CEO
who comes from uh the wine industry, UM, but had
a really you know, it was really hungry for innovation
(20:38):
and kind of saw the opportunity that we saw not
only in the better for you positioning, but I think
in the way that we speak to consumers and in
the way that we market the brand in a way
that was just not existing in an alcohol UM. But
you know, I really started, you know, as a entrepreneur.
You know, from the day I was born, I was
(20:59):
trying to make a buck, whether it was you know,
selling uh tickets to my neighbors to come see a
show I'd put on in my grandmother's garage, or you know,
using my play kitchen to open a restaurant. I was
always just looking to you know, transact and and make
some money. So I had a very non traditional education path.
(21:21):
I finished high school early because I was a very
serious dancer, and then I just started working when I
was about seventeen full time. Didn't go to college. UM,
you know, started out in the film industry, actually working
for a producer, UM. And that was my first I
really wanted to produce. I loved the idea of putting
(21:43):
the right people together and the right storytelling and creating
a product. And it's a lot like what I do today.
It's just I was going to say that, but I
I got out of film because I was so frustrated
that everything took so long. So I found the Internet
and UM. I originally started as West Coast editor of
L magazine and of L Girl, which was the team
(22:06):
magazine at the time. And you know, I was in
my early twenties and I was spending all my time
on the Internet, UM and on these new social media platforms,
and realizing I couldn't get the same kind of content
I got in a print magazine on the Internet. So
I I launched my first company called Who What Where,
which is an online fashion magazine UM. I launched it
(22:30):
fifteen years ago. We turned it into UH, an apparel
business UM and so it's still, you know, running today
as one of the most popular, you know, online fashion
magazines and UM. And then I launched two beauty brands.
One is called Verst. It's a skincare brand that's distributed
through you know, drug store and mass retail channels. It's
(22:53):
all clean. UM were the largest beauty brand to be
carbon neutral, the most sustainable in the mass category. UM.
And then just this year, I launched a brand called Merit,
which is clean color cosmetics. UM. It's distributed primarily through Sephora.
There's there's Cameron showing us a little blush. But all
(23:17):
my brands are you know, digital first. They're born on
social media. We sell direct to consumer as well as
partner with amazing brick and mortar retailers like Target and
Sephora to really bring the products and make them accessible
to you know, two people everywhere. And that's always been
my goal is to kind of bring the more aspirational
(23:39):
and make it a bit more accessible. And I think,
you know Aveline is a perfect example of that. And
we you know, with our strategy and launching the brand.
You know, usually when you when you create a wine label,
you start at you know, restaurants and you you know,
educate the similiaise and the in the customers and then
(23:59):
you know, eventually, if you're lucky, you get to to retail.
But we started with retail. I think we're in about
four thousand doors now, but really just focusing on you know,
everywhere this customer is already shopping so that we can
be there to offer you know, a better fore you solution.
Great concept. So we've put together an amazing team that
(24:22):
that has really built it out. We're just over a
year old, UM, and it was just perfect timing I
think for for this offering. Well, what's the structure. I
want to know about several women working together. I want
to know how that dynamic is. I want to know
how you make decisions, how management happens. All of that.
I mean, I think people could learn from that. We
(24:43):
talk a lot about culture, management, finding good people, struggles,
that sort of thing. Yeah, I mean, there's so many
different ways to build a business, and you know, I
think we initially just set out to meet with anyone
remotely connected to this industry because it is so different
than what we're both familiar with based on our backgrounds.
(25:03):
But UM, then there are fundamentals that are very similar.
So you know, we we hired the right CEO, We
basically put together the founding team. We you know, funded
the business and UM just raised some outside capital at
the end of last year. But really it's just starting
with who's that leader UM at the top, and then
(25:26):
you know, supporting them as they built the rest of
the team. I um brought in a young woman who
had worked with me for a number of years on
the who What We're brand and incubating my skin care
brand UM, and she now works over with with Abbott,
who's our CEO. So it's kind of you know, old
school and new school converging. And you know, we've been
(25:48):
really incredibly lucky with the team that Abbott has helped
us put together. But you know, Cameron and I sit
on the board of Aveline and we're the co founders,
so we participate in, you know, all of the product development.
So really nothing UM goes in a bottle without us UM,
you know, going through many iterations to get it just perfect.
(26:11):
And Cameron and I source the original UH wine making
partners ourselves before we even and brought the team on UM.
You know this is this is definitely not UH you know,
a sort of bulk wine project or a celebrity wine brand.
We you know, we're pretty discerning you know, wine drinkers,
and went out and scoured the globe for the perfect
(26:35):
partners who could kind of nail the taste profile that
we wanted. Super lucky to find them, and and now
we you know, we participate in a lot of the
activities from you know, our retailer partnerships to um Press
of course, and and mainly product development is where we
spend a lot of time. I swear to god, I
(27:09):
woke up this morning thinking there's two SIPs of water
in that bottle next to my bed, and camer Diaz
has a bottle of water in her bathroom, so she
wakes up to wash her face that she drinks the
whole bottle, and it just I mean, I try, but
tell me about the discipline for you, because you don't
make it like it's easy. Use the way it's described,
(27:31):
and I may have read everything wrong, is that like
you you have one night and you cook your meals
for the week, and this is a you're very regimented
about it because it's important to you, and I want
to hear the r o I on it, the return
on your investment on this health showgram of yours. Well,
I mean, look at consistency is key in anything that
you do. If you're doing anything consistently bad, you're going
(27:52):
to get bad, the results are not going to be
in your favor. And if you do things consistently good,
then you're likely to get more. I'm a new mom,
so you know, I'm two years deep into caring for
another human being other than myself where you know, I
find those challenges myself as a mom, um and I
(28:14):
you know, I love it and it's amazing, but it
does switch up a little bit of your ability to um,
you know, meal prep for yourself. So right now I'm
on a you know, luckily, I feed everything the same
to my child as I do myself. Sheets, everything I
do so I can scrape off her meals doubled it exactly. Um.
(28:39):
But yeah, I I feel like, you know, water though,
is like that's just a you know, a no brainer
for me. That's not even that doesn't take any effort,
because I think that one of the main things for
you know, um, just honoring yourself is listening to your body.
And my body will always tell me when it needs water,
(28:59):
and I try never to let it suffer too much
without it. It's one of the main things that I,
you know, I do. I happen to be able to
manage to keep disciplined about And what about sleep? Sleep?
The regimented nature about sleep. Sleep is important. I mean,
it's more more than anything I think, you know, it's
one of those things where you keep learning even more
(29:21):
and more about what sleep. Um you know what it
does for us, how important it is, and I'm fortunately
able to get a pretty good night's sleep. Sleeping is
about for me, like it is about a routine of
shutting down my brain, you know, Like I have a
very specific, you know, procedure of shut down that I
never no matter what, I always do. Um so that
(29:45):
no phones and you put the phone in another room,
it stops at certain times. No, I don't do phones.
I do know electronics in my room period. There's like
not any rate, not not even a light. I don't
cover up everything. The smoke detector as a you know,
a piece of tape over it's so the light. I
don't see the light like I know. Electronics, no television,
(30:07):
no fans, no rick clocks plugged in, no anything. It
is like, yeah, I love that. It's a very big part.
It's I'm gonna I have to start then, I have
to try that because I feel like we complain about
our sleep, but then we don't really do enough about it.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna start that. The device
is number one that's the worst. If you go to
your health app. You have you ever checked out your
(30:30):
house the sleep on your health app on your iPhone,
but it's going to be bad. If you go to
your sleep at app, you can look at you can
set up like your what time your phone like basically
will stop taking in calls or anything for like any
calls will come in and it room. It comes up
on your screen like this is your time for your
(30:51):
shutdown forty five minutes before bedtime to you, and then
you can set your hours that you your desired hours
of sleep for at night. So if you want to
get eight hours, it basically shuts you down forty five
minutes before um, your your bedtime, so that you have
that time. I love that because even if you don't sleep,
(31:11):
you're laying resting sort of in a meditative state versus
being I called activated. Yeah, it's also just to remind you,
like it's time to put your phone down, Like I
love forty five minutes on you're not getting any more
phone calls, the color of the screen changes. Um. You
can kind of go through all that. I've been using
that for the last few months and it's been really helpful.
(31:33):
I'm starting tonight. What mistakes have you made in this process?
What mistakes can we learn from? Well, I think early
on we had no idea how much wine we were
going We were told we were told a lot. We
we went to people asking them like how much wine
should we buy? And you know, nobody really believed in
(31:55):
what we were doing, so they gave us a really
low ball, and so we kind of went in with, um,
you know, kind of bottling a very minimal amount and
found out as we started to get to market that
you know, we had our plan actually was working like
we had planned to get it into retailers and and
(32:16):
we ended up having to sort of like you know,
and in wine, the problem is is that you know,
it's there's a finite amount of it. It grows so
only so much grows on every vine every year, and
it's produced in the regions that you're buying your grapes
from that you're making your wine in. And you know,
because we came in late even to that purchase for
(32:37):
that vintage, we had um you know, they're half the
most of the wine was bought, Our grapes were bought
up and so being able to like find get get
more our providers to make us more wine at this
you know, late you can't just all of a sudden
have more grapes, you know what I mean. So, um, yeah,
(32:59):
I got it by the same token. It could have
been the opposite and you could have ordered too much
and then it would have been another different panic. Well
that's what we're afraid of, you know. But we had
also done all that before we even understood, like we
were just getting our footing in the three tier system
and what that meant, you know, and trying to find
it an importer and trying to find you know, we
hadn't even gotten our distributor yet. And once we got
(33:21):
in with our distributor, um, you know, we had we
started seeing really that we could be effective in the
way that we wanted to. So Catherine, why, um, what
mistakes did you make? Like things that you regret or
that you did wrong or you would have done differently?
Besides that, Yeah, you know, I don't think that anything
has been a mistake yet. I think you know, listen,
(33:42):
there will be lots of ups and downs like there
are with any of the businesses. But um, you know,
Cameron and I are just big problem solvers. That's what
we love to do. So any time that you know,
we would kind of hit a roadblock or hear no
from someone, we just well, how do we you know,
who's going to tell us? Yes, let's figure it out.
(34:04):
So I think you know it's it's um, you know,
sometimes even if things don't go exactly as you planned,
I truly believe it all happens for a reason. And
there's another you know, something around that next turn, and
you'll you'll learn why. But we were not so far
into this yet that we we can point at something
(34:26):
other than you know, just um, you know, blowing through
our goals so quickly. But um, I'm sure those times
will come, as they always do. And what are you
up against now? And was I mean people were drinking
more during the pandemic? But did you I mean when
you when exactly did you launch what we launched in
um July of last year. So that was I mean,
(34:49):
that was a challenge. You know, we were in a pandemic. Luckily,
you know, for better or worse, alcohol consumption was up
across the country in and so you know it worked
out for us. We were able to provide at least um,
you know, a cleaner option for everybody if they were
going to be drinking more. But it's UM, you know,
now it's just about keeping up the momentum. We're scaling
(35:10):
incredibly fast, so it's again just you know, solidifying the
supply chain and UM, you know, making sure that everything
meets our quality standards and and getting it on shelves
and you know, improving velocity as we go. And UM
wasn't a time to sort of nest and nurture and
(35:30):
realize how you can do things differently business wise, meaning streamlining.
You don't need as many employees, as much travel, as
much expenses, and we're able to streamline the business. Yeah,
I mean just you know, for me, my, my all
of my businesses, I think it was such a year
of UM of reset and you know I am. I'm
(35:53):
so grateful for some of the silver linings that came
out of UM this experience. You know, like less travel
and we would fly to I'd fly to Minnesota for one,
you know, one hour meeting, or UM to San Francisco
constantly for you know an hour meeting and now UM,
you know, so many things can be done over zoom
(36:14):
and listen. We would not have been able to meet
with all of the retailers. If if we had you know,
if this hadn't happened, We've been able to meet with
every single one on Zoom. It's amazing and we just
could not have done that with you know, our schedules
as far as travel. So that was such a blessing. Um.
And you know, I think it's it's just things like that,
(36:37):
to being able to save money on on you know,
office space and travel for these new companies. It's it's
been it's been good. Now that is finding a silver lining.
So you said that you didn't go to college. I
don't know if you did, Cameron. But do you have kids, Catherine?
I do. I have a four year old boy. Okay,
So where do you both stand on college? I mean,
obviously there's no right answer, but do you other college
(37:00):
isn't for everyone? And what do you think about what
do you both think about the benefit of getting into
sort of the workforce and getting on the road if
you know what you want to do, versus taking those
minimal minimum four years for college. I'm actually curious to
hear what you say, Kim. I personally believe that on
the job training is the most valuable thing that you
can do. I think that if you can immerse yourself
(37:23):
into something, especially it's something that you love and or
you even just think that you love and you immerse
yourself and find out that you don't and you move on,
um before you get it for your education and something,
and then realize that the work that you have to
do with that education isn't where you want to exist.
You know. I think that there's obviously, you know, there's
(37:45):
certain there are certain um you know, you can't be
a lawyer without going to college. So if you're a doctor,
so those educations are important. But I think that there's
so many um you know, avenue is to um, you know,
a career that does not require um a college degree
(38:07):
that are very gratifying and have the same possibilities, if
not more of success. Um you know it. I think also,
you know, going into something like with Catherine and I did,
into an industry that we knew nothing about and learning
about it as we sort of pushed ourselves through. You know,
there's the value of that is like your instinct you know,
(38:29):
you get to really sort of use your instincts in
a way rather than sort of thinking about just what
you've learned in school, like you get to like trust
your gut a little bit more and be a little
bit more um you know, uh, I don't you know
like exactly. You know, well that was in your former career.
(38:49):
That was also probably very the way you literally, you know,
navigated an entire career. So it's probably helped you being
able to just like feel it and no one it
feels right and what it doesn't feel right? You know,
and go through college. I I'm terrible at school. I
was terrible. I don't I don't even remember. I don't
even know how I graduated. I literally think they just
(39:09):
gave me my diploma because I shut up enough days
at school. I have no It's funny. I don't like
school either. I wanted to be on the road. I
wanted to be in the game. I wanted to put
me in coach. It's so funny. But and so don't
waste the time. Yeah, And I think with the Internet
and just all of the examples today of different types
of entrepreneurs, you know, you can create your own body
(39:32):
of work, right, You don't need the traditional kind of
uh you know, education or work experience. Really you can
kind of become your own you know, content creator becomes
you know, florist and sell it online or whatever it is.
It's true. All that said, All that said, I probably
will encourage, you know, my kids to go to college
(39:54):
because I think it's like if if that's something that
they're if they're not as certain as I was, because
I think it's it's it's a unique person that you know,
has that much drive to or certainty around what they
want to do, and that doesn't work out for everyone.
So I certainly want to I think encourage it more
than maybe I was encouraged, you know when I was young,
(40:15):
because I think you get a lot of great life
experience out of it. You know, it's a transitional period
too in your life from being in the nest. Yeah.
I mean it's not for it's not for everybody, and
it's not for us to design. I was just curious
what your stance was, and it depends upon the individual.
I think that it totally depends on the person. Person. Yeah,
I think it's individual. And it's also look, now, everybody
(40:37):
can afford to go to college, and a lot of
people take on debt because they can, exactly and they
don't always do it because they really feel that they
know what it is. They just they're told that they're
supposed to have a college exactly. So you know, yeah,
I feel like it's just I don't think that if
it's if what if you're the person that you're talking about, Catherine,
who's like really knows and wants to go for it
(40:58):
and can you know, is willing to take on that debt.
But I think it's just culturally, our country and our
society has this idea that college is the is the
path to success, and I don't I just don't think
that that's necessarily true. So Cameron, what percentage do you
think you're lucky? And what percentage do you think you're smart? Love?
(41:19):
I mean, I really don't even know how to answer
that question. I feel like I'm not dead, so I
have to be smart enough to have not die doing
everything that I've done in my life. So some whatever
kind of smart that is, I've got a lot of that. Okay,
(41:39):
that's smart, that's smart. But do you consider yourself lucky? Um?
I definitely, I feel like, you know, I think that
all of us are. You know, yes, I definitely think
I'm lucky, But I also don't know how you quantify
it luck, you know what I mean, I can't. I
think that it goes back to you know, having um.
(42:00):
You know, I think one thing that I definitely feel
like is that the doors that open. Not everybody sees
the doors that open and are know to walk through
them right or are willing to push themselves through them
or to do the work to keep them open long
enough to where they you know, they can see the
(42:21):
other side of them. Like I know that one thing
that I've had my entire life since I was like
I can remember is work ethic. And you know, I
worked my ass off for you know, up until I
stopped making movies. And now I'm pretty lazy, you know,
(42:42):
but I used to do I used to have a
really high you know, work drive and um and that
I know pushed me through, like you know, my success
in a lot of ways, you know, but certainly because
of you know, there's a lot of there. There was
a ton of luck involved, for sure. And then I'll
ask uh, both of you, but kathn press your rose
(43:04):
and thorn of your career, not of your not of
your family life, but your rose and thorn of your
whole career. Man um. I think the rose is always,
you know, getting to see something that you've envisioned in
your mind and have worked so hard to bring to fruition,
like in the hands of a consumer. For me, that's
(43:28):
very you know, very exciting, um just to see the
reaction or the impact that you know as as uh
you know, it's it's fashion and beauty, but like sometimes
it can be so meaningful to help somebody you know,
afford a new outfit that they then go to a
job interview and get that job or have acne and
(43:51):
feel like, you know, we've changed their life because their
skin has cleared up. Like that just makes me so happy,
you know, not only because I've spent so much time
kind of creating this and it's in their hands, but
just the response that has gotten I think is probably
the rose for me and my thorn. I don't know
(44:13):
if I don't know if if I see anything as
a true thorn. I think, you know, I've had some
really you know, uncomfortable times, but again, I've been doing
this long enough to understand that everything happens for a reason,
and I always end up in like a better place
after having gone through something. That's the Matthew McConaughey green light,
(44:37):
He says, his red lights were green lights. You don't
know it at the time, but the things that are
negative totally became green lights. So that's that's that's interesting
to change in course, right, And what about you, Cameron,
do you know you're Rose and Thorne. I think, you know,
I really feel so grateful that I got to do
(44:58):
what I did for so long. You know, I loved
making movies. I loved um being able to I love
the process of making movies. I loved every you know,
the opportunity to be on set and work with all
the people that I worked with, and to be able
to tell stories and put them into the world and
also affect people's lives, give them something to laugh about,
(45:19):
something to think about. All the things that you know,
films have done sort of you know, historically through our
society of like really sort of being that camp fire
that people gather around. I really feel so fortunate to
be able to be a part of that, you know,
and so, you know, and it's made my life in
so many ways, you know, so incredible, you know, So
(45:42):
I just I'm very grateful for it. I think that
for me, you know, have sort of calling it when
I did was the right thing for myself, even though
I loved doing it. I sort of mountain next phase
of life for me, which I'm really enjoying. That's nice. Thorn, Um,
I think I like Catherine. It's sort of like, you know,
(46:03):
it's it's hard to really um say that anything in
my life is there's a thorn? You know what I mean,
there's not. It's so blessed. I'm so lucky. There's so
many aspects of my life that I just there's nothing
that I could say. You know, I always say, if
(46:24):
it's if I complain, you know, punch me in the face.
That's so nice. And then and then in um, for
both of you, what in your life is one thing
that you could say that has just worked? In relationship?
Do you either of you have any um pearls? We'll
find a good therapist. Okay. I like that. Check something
(46:50):
that that has really helped me as as sort of
like a guiding principle in not uh you know, I
exercise it in my romantic relations ship as well. But
something I discovered with my my first co founder, UM
my business who what where my partner Hillary? You know,
we would the way we would kind of look at
(47:11):
decision making or when we would kind of come to
a place where we weren't seeing eye to eye, it
was kind of like, whoever felt most strongly about their opinion,
we went with it. And you know, there weren't a
lot of you know, there weren't a lot of big
dramatic moments by any means, but it just we got
(47:32):
into this rhythm of that's kind of how we made decisions,
and we would always support the other person if they
felt more strongly and amazing. It's just a good practice
for any relationship. I love that and also it but
it's foundation is honesty because everybody can't be dramatic about
like no, this is the thing. You can't cry wealth
(47:54):
every time. So that's really a good one, like your battles,
you know, yeah, I like that. Okay, great, and there
the asked one Cameron, Um, it's very similar to that.
I mean, just that's one of the things that is
like is one to tend what is it for you?
If it's a six for me and it's an eight
for you, or if it's a you know, a nine
(48:15):
for me and a tend for you, then we we
sort of you know, give it to the person who
feels the most strongly about it. But I also think,
I think like honesty obviously is very important, but vulnerability
is super important. You know, just being able to say
how you feel regardless of how the other person is
(48:35):
going to receive it, that you just are allow yourself
to practice to you know, being um acknowledging your own feelings.
I love that being present with that. Well, you were
both very present with me, and I'm glad we got
to talk about your business. But I get a sense
of you as business women and as human beings. And UM,
(48:55):
I am glad you trusted me with this time. I
really appreciate the time, and UM excited about what you
guys are doing. And I'm excited to have a glass
of this right after this conversation. So thank you so
much for this conversation. So great to meet you. Thank you, Bethany.
(49:18):
Catherine and Cameron were interesting. I don't often do a
two person interview, but their partners, and I believe that
camera doesn't do very many interviews, and I wanted to
respect the new path that she's on. Uh, this show
isn't about gossip or gotcha as you know, and I
wanted to have a real conversation about the brand, but
(49:41):
also get a sense of who they are as people,
as as two business women, as two mothers, uh, and
as to two women very focused on health and wellness.
So I'm so grateful, and you know, in me trying
to be respectful of certain people's privacy and how to
have a conversation but still get you and myself what
(50:02):
I want me to hear and learn about their business.
You know, it takes effort. And I loved the conversation.
I loved the experience, and I'm really grateful to them
for trusting me with the conversation. That's honestly one of
the biggest parts of the takeaway. They were wonderful and
really good nice people. So that was a pleasure, and
I'm honored and humbled and remember to rate, review and subscribe.
(50:25):
Thank you so much, and I'm loving it.
Host
Bethenny Frankel
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