June 11, 2025 • 27 mins
From banking to reality and back again with the Trading Secrets podcast, Jason knows how to keep an eye on the culture AND on your pocket book.
And tune in tomorrow for Jason and Bethenny on DATING in Part 2!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
Hi, Oh are you Bethany.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I'm wonderful, nice to meet you.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
So nice to meet you. A huge fan of yours.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Thank you. Like I think likewise, I've seen you.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
You're funny on TikTok, and I don't know that much
or enough about you, so I'm excited to find out myself.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
But like I'm aware of you, but were you.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
I'm literally going blind because I'm not going blind.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I'm coming in blind.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
I have all the information about you, but I kind
of like to only look at it if I need
to look at something on the test. So you were
on the bachelorette or a bachelor.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
I was on the Bachelorette. So back in twenty eighteen,
I was on the Bachelorette. And before that, I was
in like the banking industry and took like a wild
detour into reality TV, which was very unexpected and like
definitely not I would say, like like like just my
buddies were like, what the hell you doing?
Speaker 1 (01:04):
But I was on Bachelor in twenty eighteen, so it
was like seven.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Years ago, okay, And for some reason I thought you
were So you were financed to the bachelorette trajectory.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Not an athlete yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Non athlete.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
So I had my NBA in accounting and I played
college sports and stuff like that, but nothing professional I was.
I got an NBA in accounting and finance, and I
was like bopping around in the banking industry. And then
I did I actually, you know, you know Guilda Radner,
the comedian she got right, of course, she died of
ovarian cancer.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
There's Guilda's club.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
So there was a charity event and they did a
bachelor auction, and so at the bachelor auction, they had
thirty guys come up and people would bid on you
for date. The money would all go to the charity.
And so I did that sponsored by my employer, which
was the bank. But then when I got there, I
was like all right, if I'm gonna do this, let's
do this. And so all the guys were kind of
like going up a little like hey, you a bit
(01:55):
on me.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
And I just started like stripping. I took my clothes off.
Oh oh yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
I got that crowd going and it was like that
video that got sent to ABC. And then it was
like nine months later. I didn't even live in I
was in upstate New York. They moved me out to Seattle.
I didn't even live in upstate anymore. Like, hey, we
got this video of you in Rochester, New York? Are
you still single? And would you be willing to come
on the show? And I was like, what the hell.
So that's how it all happened.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
That's amazing.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
And then so now you're a media personality, but you
still how much do you use your finance background? Like
how much is business playing into everything you're doing? I mean,
obviously everything is your business, but how is it being applied?
Speaker 4 (02:34):
No, So what happened was I get off the show
and I didn't really know what to expect. People are like,
do you go on these reality shows to find love?
I think nine point nine out of ten people know
like you just go for many different reasons. For me,
I was just like, I'm done with this corporate banking thing.
I'm shot, let's do something different. And so after I
got off, I started to learn someone I joke around
(02:57):
as a weighted blanket deal that came to me and
they're like, we're gonna give you a fifteen grand to
post a photo with a way to.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Blank I love a way to blanket, by the way, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
I mean it makes you feel comfortable thing. But I
was just like, what this is two thousand and eight.
I'm like, what the hell is this?
Speaker 1 (03:12):
What do you mean?
Speaker 4 (03:13):
And I was like I get to keep what percent
of this for a photo? And so that's why I
kind of like learned the industry and I was like,
there's something here. And for a year I was like
working with CFOs of companies that earn hundreds of millions
of dollars and billions of dollars and then on weekends
doing like appearances to like cash in and do social
media stuff. And then after a year, I was like,
(03:33):
this business is is too big to ignore. So I
stepped into the finance and career navigation side of the
business with my platform that was derived from social media,
and I have never looked back. I haven't been in
banking since. I wrote two books. One's on love and money,
one is on career navigation, like being on the road
you imagine as opposed to the road and the blueprint
(03:54):
that life puts us on.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
I started.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
I started an agency, so we manage about eighty to
eighty five different public figures exclusively.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
What you do.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
What's the agency called.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
It's called URTM rewired talent management and you.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Guys met so you're running that that's your main day
to day because that.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Sounds the agency is honestly.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
So, I have a podcast called Trading Secrets, and what
we do is we talk all about money and pop culture,
so real housewives, it could be a Rod Gronk, it
could be one of the sharks from Shark Tank. Can
we talk about like where do you make your money?
How where do you lose your money? And so I
do one episode every single year where I talk exactly
how much money I've made and still my number one
income source and I know you talk a lot about
(04:36):
it is my own creator pages. It's been a seven
figure business since since two thousand. But the profitability on
that is still larger than the agency is. There's so
much cost with an agency and.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
What is it?
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Yeah, because it's it's not direct to consumer. It's like
it's more bulky, more weeds, more infrastructure.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
What about exactly?
Speaker 2 (04:53):
So what is is it?
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Brand deals or is there some creative way that you've
come up with making money like other anythings you're gatekeeping?
Speaker 4 (05:02):
I mean, I don't know gatekeeping, I wouldn't say, but
the thing is we're a boutique, so we'll represent talent directly.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
No for you.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
You you said you are making the most on your
creator pages. I'm saying you personally, Yeah, what's what's the
thing on on content creation? It's brand deals, it's the products,
Like what's the what's the biggest rain maker?
Speaker 4 (05:24):
So the biggest I mean, like I joke around about it.
I call it like my Coldgate model. And the Coldgate
model was you get off the show, you have a
ton of relevancy from whatever's happening, and Coldgate will come
to you with a toothpaste deal or a tooth brush deal,
and everyone brushes their teeth. So you get a good
rate and you do the deal and you get paid.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Well.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
The problem with the Coldgate deal is the next season,
the next show, your relevancy isn't the same, Your following
is not the same, maybe your community is not the same.
Everyone's got teeth, everyone brushes them. And after there was
a year that happened where I don't know if you
know Tyler Cameron, I joke around, like, you figure, he's taller,
he's better looking. He comes on the next season and
he gets the Coldgate deal, and now my rate's down
(06:06):
and That's where I was like, I got to do
something to figure out how to build sustainability in some
form of niche. And that's why I jumped into this
specific niche of the finance and career navigation. And I
recognize that there aren't many business creators out there, finance
creators that have a ninety five percent women following that
also can touch lanes of pop culture and business. And
(06:26):
that's where I was able to differentiate with majority of
the deals I'm doing are like in the Fortune one
hundred Fortune five hundred companies, but they're all different integrations.
It could be appearances, it could be speaking, could be commercial, yes,
it could be in real think.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
A little bit of crame the guy you know, the
guy from CNBC Kramer, Susie Orman, you know that type
of thing where you're giving people like advice and how
to invest. But the eye candy and being attractive is
good because the women are like listening, they're paying attention.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
I'll take it. Yeah, But it's also one oh one.
It's like making things a little bit more relatable, like
S and P. Five hundred majority I did a poll.
I was like, tell me right now, S in P.
Five hundreds crash and tell me, you know, if you
could explain it in three sentences, and ninety one percent
of my two hundred and fifty thousand people that responded
said they couldn't do it. So instead of making that
a complicated subject with which most people do in finance,
(07:16):
I think it's it's set up to create kind of
like bullshit. So it sounds confusing, but it's not. I'll
just be like, all right, imagine you go to a
grocery store, right, instead of getting like one item, you're
gonna get fifteen different items in your basket. And essentially
that sp five hundred is just imagine five hundred different
items at the grocery store that are a little piece
of each company in the five hundred biggest companies in
(07:39):
the country, and so you'll own that whole basket as
opposed to just owning one stock. So I don't know,
making things like that.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Like you explained like Berkshire Hathaway and like a fund
and like what they're invested in things like that exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
So where are you on bitcoin?
Speaker 4 (07:52):
On bitcoin, I mean, it's the administration right now is
very favorable for bitcoin.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
I think it's it's very favorable.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Well, for Trump exactly. But it's very it's it's very
it's a deregulated market.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
I honestly don't own I don't have any exposure anymore
to bitcoin, which I'm starting to think twice about.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
But like, I'm not a I'm not like a huge,
huge crypto guy. Are you? Are you into the crypto game?
Speaker 3 (08:17):
I don't understand it, but I have some just because
I have some diversification and want to not miss it
if you know, nothing crazy as it. Proportionally, I am invested.
I personally invest in real estate. I own four homes,
which is a lot for a person with you know,
(08:39):
just me and my daughter. But and I obviously am
heavily invested in the stock market and a lot of
other things, but and businesses. But I do love personal
real estate because you can use it. And I've been
extraordinarily successful and profitable in that in that because you're
buying it for yourself and so you have a dual
(09:01):
intention when you're purchasing every single time.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
Is someone who is in the creator game because for
myself and my agency, but also obviously you are too,
Like there's so much change in it and with the
CpG brands that you've brought to life and exited like what,
I don't know. You're seeing Poppy, You're seeing a lot
of nutrition Celsius, now you're seeing AI creators. Like where
do you think this whole world of like the creator
game is going as it connects to business because yours
(09:38):
and your socials are blowing up.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
It's crazy every day.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Yeah, they are blowing up.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
I think I still think, well, there will be something
very original about individuals versus AI, like people, you know,
you can't you can clone a dog, but like it's
not your dog, you know. I mean, so it's like
AI is like cloning something or a person in a
way or kind. But I don't think it can completely
replace a person. But it is scary. I mean, there
(10:04):
have been quotes out there that people think came for me,
and you can sort of just tell, you know, but
it'll get smarter and smarter. I'm invested in Steve Cohen's
AI fund because he's a friend of mine and I'm
a crowdsourcer, and then I ultimately make my own decision
of many things. If it's marketing, if it's products, if
it's direct to consumer, if it's communication, it's one hundred
(10:27):
percent me.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
If it's content, it's me.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
If it's something like bitcoin that I don't understand or
AI that I don't understand per se fully, and a
couple of people are saying you should get into this
or you should invest in this, then I'll figure out
who the best person is. And because I'm friends with
Steve and Alex Cohen and I'm invested in their other fund.
If he's doing something, if he's if he's starting a
clown school, I'm investing. So that's why I'm invested in
(10:53):
the AI fund with him.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Yeah, I mean that's a good guy to follow.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
What's what's your take out all the obviously so much
as reality TV. I mean I'm just curious, like what
do you think about do you I got my start
on reality TV into the space, what like do you
think reality TV is?
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Like? Are you bullish or bearish.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
On the barity? No, this is the thing.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
I've always been pretty good at knowing when to leave
a party, and it's usually before it really like it
feels like it's popping off, but I feel like it's
getting tired, and that's just who I am socially. Also,
it's like when it's about to like be at the
full peak. I'm like, I did it.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
We did it.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
And that's how I was for Reality TV. The first
time I left because it just was toxic. But I
came back because I knew it wasn't over and I
missed the connection to the audience. The second time I left,
I still you know, I looked at the other people
that stayed and I was like, you guys are on
the Poseidon adventure, like you going the wrong way. And
you would have thought I was leaving millions of dollars
for a couple of months work when I left, and
(11:50):
you would have thought I thought too, like wow, you know,
my business managers are like, why aren't you just taking
this for another couple of seasons? And I didn't have
these big goals of what I'm doing now. I left
to work on my charity and do the podcast and
just like tone it down a little. I was in
a relationship and didn't want to be there. I just
didn't want.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
To be there.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
It was soul crushing and I thought it was gross.
And now everything's derivative, everything's a remix. I mean, I
remember the first photoshoot really on Reality TV was my
Social Life photo shooting, like charity events and all these
things that now are like the formula or you know,
the arguments were so low stakes then and they were
so entertaining because Kelly Bensone saying I'm up here and
(12:33):
you're down here, like broke what was barely the Internet
at the time, and now you have to be doing
something so vile and people are turned off. You know,
people are turned off. It's just it's on its last legs.
In many ways, there's not that much to do. The
ratings are down. It seems tragic. I was out with
a pretty big celebrity recently and they were talking about
reality TV, and I'm like, what is it now?
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Like what is the Housewives now?
Speaker 3 (12:56):
They're like, it's just very desperate, and because I can't
see it for what it is because I don't watch
it and it's not on my radar anymore.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
It's like four boyfriends ago.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
It feels like that X that used to think about
all the time, and then they're like three four boyfriends ago.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
You don't really think about them at all. They might,
you know, once a year.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
So I don't know, and I think that they did
push the envelope too much, which is what the really
reality Reckoning was about. I think they got you know,
it's cool till it's not. It's like there's a day
that it breaks, and it's like people get what it is.
So I don't know, it's hard to advise people and
they ask if they should go on.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
I wouldn't even know how to.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
So many people in it and so many products, and
the formula has been sort of out there.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
What do you think?
Speaker 4 (13:39):
I think it's completely oversaturated. But I do think there's
like one or two shows that pop every single year,
and the people that are on those shows are benefiting
in like insane ways.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Right.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
They're going, well, like Love Island is the thing, right now,
love Island?
Speaker 4 (13:55):
Right, So like you went out a bartender who made
who's their their career AND's good for that. But they're like,
let's say it's fifty grand and they go on the show.
They're having fun, they're getting crazy, they're doing their thing,
and then the next year they're going to make five million,
Like that's a real thing.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Well right, And I guess, yeah, I guess I don't
know that much. Like I guess yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Vander Pump Rules has peaked and crashed, but like Summer
house or the houses.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
I guess those do well. And then Love Island.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Yeah, if you're talking about exceptions, of course, there are
exceptions to start up center, exceptions to going to Hollywood
and being an actor too and being successful. I'm just saying,
by and large, before everybody was crushing it, and now
I think it's very specific examples.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
I think that's the crazy thing about like social you
bring up Hollywood. Like I saw there's a post the
other day and it was what is Timothy shall May
and Kylie Jenner and they're saying on his last video
how many hours it took and how many days? And
it was it was extensive and I think he got
paid three million dollars for that, but Kylie Jenner makes
three million on three posts, which you know how much
(14:57):
time does that?
Speaker 1 (14:58):
And that's where the world changed.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
So now we're getting to so this is for me
like all the time, it almost all the time, does
somebody else in the entertainment industry who's pretty big or
famous say to me like we should do a show together,
And I'm always thinking, and then the audience is always like,
when are you gonna do a show again? When are
you back on my TV? And there's no numb you
(15:21):
can't pay. They can't find a number that a TV
show could pay me to. Go today, Go into the city,
put some makeup on, go to a conference room. Meet
some suits that's on the forty seventh floor that took
a fucking security path to get in there. Walk up there,
sit down. Let these suits pretend they know what's gonna sell.
Tell me, eh, we're not really doing that. That's not
(15:42):
doing that. Well these network executives that are literally mid
level and negation. Okay, then we're gonna decide we're gonna
let's say we're gonna do it. We're gonna do it
four months from Thursday. We're gonna No, first we have
to sell it to the network, you know, these are
the executives. But then able to sell it, then in
four months, we're gonna you know, we said yes, we'll
fast track that contract. That's going to take three months.
(16:04):
Four months, we're gonna get up and start filming. But wait,
there's more. Let's bulky film and put makeup on every
day for three months to film it. Then let's have
it end. Then let's wait six months, but wait, there's more.
Then in six months, let's go do a press tour
for a week that Today's but fuck that?
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Fuck that? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Or I could just.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
Post a video last week of me and Miami and
get millions of views, or go to Chanelle get rejected
and have two hundred and fifty million views on.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
That, right, And you think about the numbers up. So
even if you do all that bullshit what you just said,
and then you actually get it to network, what are
the ratings going to be and how many views are
you going to get? And you could do that and
pump that out in three to four videos. I just wonder,
like with your content, Like where the thing I admire
about you is you just don't give a shit. And
I'm just like a boy, you just don't give a shit.
But I'm like, how do you?
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Like?
Speaker 4 (16:55):
You'll trash brands, but you'll build them up. You'll take
people out, but you'll you'll most people like you just
don't care, Like, how do you in this space? I
think anyone that's listening to this, like you have to
be on social and any you could be a teacher,
not for profit, or you could be trying to run
for president United States. Like the impact of social today
in every single position is so important. But where like
(17:17):
I feel like your line of I don't give a
shit is just like it's here, it does. There is
no line you're gonna get a hot.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Do you drop a long a line because I don't.
The way something is said is critical. And in the
past I've said some things that have hit sideways because
of the way that they were said, and it just
didn't need to be said that way. So I'm going
to first of all, not everything needs to be said,
but I'm going to say it if I have a
strong opinion about it, but it's about the way that
it is said.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
And also if you go and you really do dig,
it will come.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Someone might perceive that I'm trashing someone because I'm saying
that I don't agree with something that somebody did. But
you'll never find me criticizing someone's physical appearance, their sexuality, height,
their you know, I won't just give a blind like
that person's a loser.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
I would. I would not.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
So like I'm saying, who in the hell is advising
this person? How could they make this? I'm talking about
their business decision, their marketing decision, they're what they said decision.
So it's always it's always something that may be perceived
because somebody disagrees with me or they like the person
as me trashing that, but it's never actually below the belt.
(18:29):
It's never actually me trashing. It's my opinion of what
they have chosen to do as a public figure or
a public brand.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
That makes sense.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
But even like it, like the like the Baldoni case,
I saw you kind of get into it a little
yeah and you and like you'll start the video with
like I might get canceled for this? Do you ever
have to deal with the reaper cushions of what you're saying?
And like, I don't know, like the just the legality
of it.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
It's not real.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
And like I had a big actor call me who
was freaking out because they were being dragged on social
on like one account but it got a million views
and they were like do should I go comment?
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Should I say something? Should I go?
Speaker 3 (19:17):
You know, because I could call the posters, are you
on your fucking what are you talking about? Even saying
like are you new? No, shut the fuck up, it's
not even real, and he was like wait, but well
I was like, no, it's not real. Just stop. You
call me in two days that this thing hasn't rinsed out.
Nobody cares.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
It's not important.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
And I've done that with pretty big people on social
that have like ten million, twenty million real followers, and
I've advised them because I feel like I could see
things from a marketing and like messaging perspective pretty clearly.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
So I'm going to prove it.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
So JLO was dragged and canceled, just headlined the AMA
killed it.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
How's that?
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Kaylee Bieber?
Speaker 3 (19:55):
You would have thought her career was over her versus
Selena her doing this with justin her, you know, like
something she posted, like something about her skincare canceled, she's done,
Haley Baby's or she's a billionaire now, Like it's not
real and you got to just hold onto the steering
wheel not too tight and you can't let go.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
But there's some I think there's there's something that is
I think there's something real happening right now, which I'm
curious your take on since we're here. Like if you
go back seventeen seventy six, you go back hundreds of
years ago when there was an argument, right Alexander Hamilton,
you go do a duel, you walk across each other,
you take ten steps, you shoot each other, you put
your hand up, like that's how it worked these days.
(20:39):
Obviously that's not the case, but there. I think what
you're starting to see now is character assassination in ways
that it's like kind of the same type of vibe,
but the attempt of teams trying to cancel other teams,
which could be it's sometimes the equivalent of literally like
a killing someone like you can assassinate with Like I
(21:04):
think you're starting to see it now that like teams
in these like groups of mobs can assassinate someone's character
so much online that it could it could wipe them up.
I mean, do you agree with that?
Speaker 3 (21:13):
I mean it depends on it depends on the foundation.
If they're only frosting, like they became famous last year,
get lights Out. But if they're like if it's cake,
you know, like whatever it is with Lake Lively, like
she she's been in this industry.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
For a while. There is cake.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
There there are movies, There are met galiluks, there is beauty,
there is gossip girl. There are many generations you're talking
to at different stages of you know this this ladder
and so she was a time most fascinating person. Now
Candice Owens will say she paid for something and she
gave what.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
It doesn't matter.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
They've moved ticket sales in the world, the two of them,
so you know they're still here. Have they ramped him
up and did he become more relevant?
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Yeah, but like you know, these two went to that
SNL thing. It kept us talking. Jlo hosted the AMAS
like a cat, So they're strong people. These people didn't
get to be a less celebrities by not being strong.
And like I said, Haley's weathered a storm or two too.
So I'm not gonna bet against Blake Lively or Justin
(22:20):
baldoniate this way. But I'm definitely not betting against Ryan
Reynolds and Blake Lively. Am I allowed to say that
this thing is like a fucker East sideways for all
these different reasons that I have institutional knowledge on because
I've literally know both their teams and have heard from
both their teams in different ways when I was speaking
about this. Yeah, but uh, there are very few people
(22:41):
who I'm going to be like call the fight. It's
I mean without criminal activity, because people are so over cancelation.
Cancelation has been canceled, so without criminal activity. It's hard
to really cancel someone who is at has was at
the top of their game unless it's something real.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
So is there I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
I grew up in a space that like, at least
I was taught by parent My parents is like take
the high road and you know, lead with integrity and class.
I feel like we live in a world now, in
social and in life. And to your point, it's like
a lot of what you're saying too is like when
you create the headline and you're the cake, it's fine,
it's probably gonna propel you, not hurt you. You'll be
in the game. But today it feels like kindness can
(23:25):
be mistaken for weakness and almost like not stepping into
like conflict can actually beat the shit out of you.
And like I've always been someone that like step whether
it's an X or something like that, I've always stepped
away from it. I'm always kind of like say about no,
I'm just not gonna I'm not gonna step into it.
But you're someone that like you're a bulldog, You're right
(23:45):
in there.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
You know you could do.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
It either way if you I've seen this on social
media with people that are very famous on social and
then I've seen it with people that are very mainstream famous,
like I don't know why, I just jumped into my mind,
like Drew Barrymore, and the fact that there show went
back on during the pandemic, like that was the most
important thing in the world. Her choice, like because people
are bored and there's a feeding friends and you say,
they want to jump into that, and it felt real
for her in the moment, and she felt they need
(24:08):
to make a statement, which doubled down and made it worse.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
And it happens with other people.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
So you either come in and you give the statement
and then you made the statement, they hate it they
like it, or you keep going, or you completely gaslight it.
You just don't add gas to the fire. You let
it rinse a little once in a while. You put
in something that is like just so you're still alive.
Otherwise you like the bully that got beaten down. Ooh,
the bully doesn't come out anymore. You can't be I mean,
(24:34):
the bullied one can't come out. It doesn't come out anymore.
So you have to be someone who like tiptoes in
and just is like doing content light when you're in
the middle of that, or you hit them and you're like, fuck,
fuck it, this is what happened.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
I'm saying this. Now we're gonna move the fuck on,
and then you just keep going. Either way it works.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
But cancelation is canceled unless it's criminal activity, unless you've
done something horribly horribly wrong.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Have you ever almost been canceled?
Speaker 3 (24:58):
Not full on, because I do think I have a
bit of cake too, But I had one incident where
I said something and it was at the wrong time
and it was a little early. I've said many things
that are early, but I've not said anything that has
not come around to be true eventually. Like so I
said something early and then lost a couple hundred thousand
dollars in brand deals in like one day, and it
(25:19):
felt very real. But I was on the inside of TikTok. No,
that was not TikTok. That was on Twitter. But one
time I was on the inside of TikTok thinking everything
was real. At the same time while selling a book
and my book agent didn't even know what was going
on because I was like in Florida, thinking the storm
that's happening in Florida and Miami is happening in New
(25:40):
York and they were like, what are you talking about?
Because I have dual residency. They're on Instagram. They're over
on Instagram where I have a residency also, and they're like,
what are you talking about? So TikTok's fucked up in
that way. It's very intense.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
What do you mean when you say early you're early
to something? What does that mean?
Speaker 3 (25:54):
I said something about someone that people hadn't jumped on
and figured out for themselves yet, that the society and
the media hadn't caught up to me yet. Happens a
lot like like if someone had said Harvey Weinstein's a
piece of shit, or any of these people in Hollywood
that I know from growing up in Hollywood that they're
all who the scumbags are because I've seen them live
and direct. So then you have a list actresses acting
(26:16):
like after doing seventy six movies with these people, I
never saw it, Like, it's like, shut up, it's not true.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Why is everyone so quiet?
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Like?
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Is it quiet?
Speaker 4 (26:23):
Just it is it scared minds for impact of a
reputation and career.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Yes, because most of them this is not their primary
source of income. So they're like in a more mainstream world,
and it's scary over here. You got to know how
to drive the car.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
That's a hard car to drive.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
I said, I would imagine you've been good. You're good
at that. I don't know about that much about you.
You seem like you'd be okay about that little nervous.
You're more cautious than I am.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Yeah, I'm definitely more cautiously. I mean I have.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
Yeah, Like, if you gave me a scale of like
a G to R rated, I would say, like, my
shit's like PG, like at the amazing.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
PG, And what do you think I am?
Speaker 1 (27:01):
I would say, well, yeah, you're a triple act. I'm scared.
I would say, you're like PG thirteen, you're
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Fuck with R, right, Yeah, up with R.
Hi, Oh are you Bethany.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I'm wonderful, nice to meet you.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
So nice to meet you. A huge fan of yours.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Thank you. Like I think likewise, I've seen you.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
You're funny on TikTok, and I don't know that much
or enough about you, so I'm excited to find out myself.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
But like I'm aware of you, but were you.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
I'm literally going blind because I'm not going blind.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I'm coming in blind.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
I have all the information about you, but I kind
of like to only look at it if I need
to look at something on the test. So you were
on the bachelorette or a bachelor.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
I was on the Bachelorette. So back in twenty eighteen,
I was on the Bachelorette. And before that, I was
in like the banking industry and took like a wild
detour into reality TV, which was very unexpected and like
definitely not I would say, like like like just my
buddies were like, what the hell you doing?
Speaker 1 (01:04):
But I was on Bachelor in twenty eighteen, so it
was like seven.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Years ago, okay, And for some reason I thought you
were So you were financed to the bachelorette trajectory.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Not an athlete yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Non athlete.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
So I had my NBA in accounting and I played
college sports and stuff like that, but nothing professional I was.
I got an NBA in accounting and finance, and I
was like bopping around in the banking industry. And then
I did I actually, you know, you know Guilda Radner,
the comedian she got right, of course, she died of
ovarian cancer.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
There's Guilda's club.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
So there was a charity event and they did a
bachelor auction, and so at the bachelor auction, they had
thirty guys come up and people would bid on you
for date. The money would all go to the charity.
And so I did that sponsored by my employer, which
was the bank. But then when I got there, I
was like all right, if I'm gonna do this, let's
do this. And so all the guys were kind of
like going up a little like hey, you a bit
(01:55):
on me.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
And I just started like stripping. I took my clothes off.
Oh oh yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
I got that crowd going and it was like that
video that got sent to ABC. And then it was
like nine months later. I didn't even live in I
was in upstate New York. They moved me out to Seattle.
I didn't even live in upstate anymore. Like, hey, we
got this video of you in Rochester, New York? Are
you still single? And would you be willing to come
on the show? And I was like, what the hell.
So that's how it all happened.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
That's amazing.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
And then so now you're a media personality, but you
still how much do you use your finance background? Like
how much is business playing into everything you're doing? I mean,
obviously everything is your business, but how is it being applied?
Speaker 4 (02:34):
No, So what happened was I get off the show
and I didn't really know what to expect. People are like,
do you go on these reality shows to find love?
I think nine point nine out of ten people know
like you just go for many different reasons. For me,
I was just like, I'm done with this corporate banking thing.
I'm shot, let's do something different. And so after I
got off, I started to learn someone I joke around
(02:57):
as a weighted blanket deal that came to me and
they're like, we're gonna give you a fifteen grand to
post a photo with a way to.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Blank I love a way to blanket, by the way, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
I mean it makes you feel comfortable thing. But I
was just like, what this is two thousand and eight.
I'm like, what the hell is this?
Speaker 1 (03:12):
What do you mean?
Speaker 4 (03:13):
And I was like I get to keep what percent
of this for a photo? And so that's why I
kind of like learned the industry and I was like,
there's something here. And for a year I was like
working with CFOs of companies that earn hundreds of millions
of dollars and billions of dollars and then on weekends
doing like appearances to like cash in and do social
media stuff. And then after a year, I was like,
(03:33):
this business is is too big to ignore. So I
stepped into the finance and career navigation side of the
business with my platform that was derived from social media,
and I have never looked back. I haven't been in
banking since. I wrote two books. One's on love and money,
one is on career navigation, like being on the road
you imagine as opposed to the road and the blueprint
(03:54):
that life puts us on.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
I started.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
I started an agency, so we manage about eighty to
eighty five different public figures exclusively.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
What you do.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
What's the agency called.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
It's called URTM rewired talent management and you.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Guys met so you're running that that's your main day
to day because that.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Sounds the agency is honestly.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
So, I have a podcast called Trading Secrets, and what
we do is we talk all about money and pop culture,
so real housewives, it could be a Rod Gronk, it
could be one of the sharks from Shark Tank. Can
we talk about like where do you make your money?
How where do you lose your money? And so I
do one episode every single year where I talk exactly
how much money I've made and still my number one
income source and I know you talk a lot about
(04:36):
it is my own creator pages. It's been a seven
figure business since since two thousand. But the profitability on
that is still larger than the agency is. There's so
much cost with an agency and.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
What is it?
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Yeah, because it's it's not direct to consumer. It's like
it's more bulky, more weeds, more infrastructure.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
What about exactly?
Speaker 2 (04:53):
So what is is it?
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Brand deals or is there some creative way that you've
come up with making money like other anythings you're gatekeeping?
Speaker 4 (05:02):
I mean, I don't know gatekeeping, I wouldn't say, but
the thing is we're a boutique, so we'll represent talent directly.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
No for you.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
You you said you are making the most on your
creator pages. I'm saying you personally, Yeah, what's what's the
thing on on content creation? It's brand deals, it's the products,
Like what's the what's the biggest rain maker?
Speaker 4 (05:24):
So the biggest I mean, like I joke around about it.
I call it like my Coldgate model. And the Coldgate
model was you get off the show, you have a
ton of relevancy from whatever's happening, and Coldgate will come
to you with a toothpaste deal or a tooth brush deal,
and everyone brushes their teeth. So you get a good
rate and you do the deal and you get paid.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Well.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
The problem with the Coldgate deal is the next season,
the next show, your relevancy isn't the same, Your following
is not the same, maybe your community is not the same.
Everyone's got teeth, everyone brushes them. And after there was
a year that happened where I don't know if you
know Tyler Cameron, I joke around, like, you figure, he's taller,
he's better looking. He comes on the next season and
he gets the Coldgate deal, and now my rate's down
(06:06):
and That's where I was like, I got to do
something to figure out how to build sustainability in some
form of niche. And that's why I jumped into this
specific niche of the finance and career navigation. And I
recognize that there aren't many business creators out there, finance
creators that have a ninety five percent women following that
also can touch lanes of pop culture and business. And
(06:26):
that's where I was able to differentiate with majority of
the deals I'm doing are like in the Fortune one
hundred Fortune five hundred companies, but they're all different integrations.
It could be appearances, it could be speaking, could be commercial, yes,
it could be in real think.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
A little bit of crame the guy you know, the
guy from CNBC Kramer, Susie Orman, you know that type
of thing where you're giving people like advice and how
to invest. But the eye candy and being attractive is
good because the women are like listening, they're paying attention.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
I'll take it. Yeah, But it's also one oh one.
It's like making things a little bit more relatable, like
S and P. Five hundred majority I did a poll.
I was like, tell me right now, S in P.
Five hundreds crash and tell me, you know, if you
could explain it in three sentences, and ninety one percent
of my two hundred and fifty thousand people that responded
said they couldn't do it. So instead of making that
a complicated subject with which most people do in finance,
(07:16):
I think it's it's set up to create kind of
like bullshit. So it sounds confusing, but it's not. I'll
just be like, all right, imagine you go to a
grocery store, right, instead of getting like one item, you're
gonna get fifteen different items in your basket. And essentially
that sp five hundred is just imagine five hundred different
items at the grocery store that are a little piece
of each company in the five hundred biggest companies in
(07:39):
the country, and so you'll own that whole basket as
opposed to just owning one stock. So I don't know,
making things like that.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Like you explained like Berkshire Hathaway and like a fund
and like what they're invested in things like that exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
So where are you on bitcoin?
Speaker 4 (07:52):
On bitcoin, I mean, it's the administration right now is
very favorable for bitcoin.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
I think it's it's very favorable.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Well, for Trump exactly. But it's very it's it's very
it's a deregulated market.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
I honestly don't own I don't have any exposure anymore
to bitcoin, which I'm starting to think twice about.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
But like, I'm not a I'm not like a huge,
huge crypto guy. Are you? Are you into the crypto game?
Speaker 3 (08:17):
I don't understand it, but I have some just because
I have some diversification and want to not miss it
if you know, nothing crazy as it. Proportionally, I am invested.
I personally invest in real estate. I own four homes,
which is a lot for a person with you know,
(08:39):
just me and my daughter. But and I obviously am
heavily invested in the stock market and a lot of
other things, but and businesses. But I do love personal
real estate because you can use it. And I've been
extraordinarily successful and profitable in that in that because you're
buying it for yourself and so you have a dual
(09:01):
intention when you're purchasing every single time.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
Is someone who is in the creator game because for
myself and my agency, but also obviously you are too,
Like there's so much change in it and with the
CpG brands that you've brought to life and exited like what,
I don't know. You're seeing Poppy, You're seeing a lot
of nutrition Celsius, now you're seeing AI creators. Like where
do you think this whole world of like the creator
game is going as it connects to business because yours
(09:38):
and your socials are blowing up.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
It's crazy every day.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Yeah, they are blowing up.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
I think I still think, well, there will be something
very original about individuals versus AI, like people, you know,
you can't you can clone a dog, but like it's
not your dog, you know. I mean, so it's like
AI is like cloning something or a person in a
way or kind. But I don't think it can completely
replace a person. But it is scary. I mean, there
(10:04):
have been quotes out there that people think came for me,
and you can sort of just tell, you know, but
it'll get smarter and smarter. I'm invested in Steve Cohen's
AI fund because he's a friend of mine and I'm
a crowdsourcer, and then I ultimately make my own decision
of many things. If it's marketing, if it's products, if
it's direct to consumer, if it's communication, it's one hundred
(10:27):
percent me.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
If it's content, it's me.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
If it's something like bitcoin that I don't understand or
AI that I don't understand per se fully, and a
couple of people are saying you should get into this
or you should invest in this, then I'll figure out
who the best person is. And because I'm friends with
Steve and Alex Cohen and I'm invested in their other fund.
If he's doing something, if he's if he's starting a
clown school, I'm investing. So that's why I'm invested in
(10:53):
the AI fund with him.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Yeah, I mean that's a good guy to follow.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
What's what's your take out all the obviously so much
as reality TV. I mean I'm just curious, like what
do you think about do you I got my start
on reality TV into the space, what like do you
think reality TV is?
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Like? Are you bullish or bearish.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
On the barity? No, this is the thing.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
I've always been pretty good at knowing when to leave
a party, and it's usually before it really like it
feels like it's popping off, but I feel like it's
getting tired, and that's just who I am socially. Also,
it's like when it's about to like be at the
full peak. I'm like, I did it.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
We did it.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
And that's how I was for Reality TV. The first
time I left because it just was toxic. But I
came back because I knew it wasn't over and I
missed the connection to the audience. The second time I left,
I still you know, I looked at the other people
that stayed and I was like, you guys are on
the Poseidon adventure, like you going the wrong way. And
you would have thought I was leaving millions of dollars
for a couple of months work when I left, and
(11:50):
you would have thought I thought too, like wow, you know,
my business managers are like, why aren't you just taking
this for another couple of seasons? And I didn't have
these big goals of what I'm doing now. I left
to work on my charity and do the podcast and
just like tone it down a little. I was in
a relationship and didn't want to be there. I just
didn't want.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
To be there.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
It was soul crushing and I thought it was gross.
And now everything's derivative, everything's a remix. I mean, I
remember the first photoshoot really on Reality TV was my
Social Life photo shooting, like charity events and all these
things that now are like the formula or you know,
the arguments were so low stakes then and they were
so entertaining because Kelly Bensone saying I'm up here and
(12:33):
you're down here, like broke what was barely the Internet
at the time, and now you have to be doing
something so vile and people are turned off. You know,
people are turned off. It's just it's on its last legs.
In many ways, there's not that much to do. The
ratings are down. It seems tragic. I was out with
a pretty big celebrity recently and they were talking about
reality TV, and I'm like, what is it now?
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Like what is the Housewives now?
Speaker 3 (12:56):
They're like, it's just very desperate, and because I can't
see it for what it is because I don't watch
it and it's not on my radar anymore.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
It's like four boyfriends ago.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
It feels like that X that used to think about
all the time, and then they're like three four boyfriends ago.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
You don't really think about them at all. They might,
you know, once a year.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
So I don't know, and I think that they did
push the envelope too much, which is what the really
reality Reckoning was about. I think they got you know,
it's cool till it's not. It's like there's a day
that it breaks, and it's like people get what it is.
So I don't know, it's hard to advise people and
they ask if they should go on.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
I wouldn't even know how to.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
So many people in it and so many products, and
the formula has been sort of out there.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
What do you think?
Speaker 4 (13:39):
I think it's completely oversaturated. But I do think there's
like one or two shows that pop every single year,
and the people that are on those shows are benefiting
in like insane ways.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Right.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
They're going, well, like Love Island is the thing, right now,
love Island?
Speaker 4 (13:55):
Right, So like you went out a bartender who made
who's their their career AND's good for that. But they're like,
let's say it's fifty grand and they go on the show.
They're having fun, they're getting crazy, they're doing their thing,
and then the next year they're going to make five million,
Like that's a real thing.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Well right, And I guess, yeah, I guess I don't
know that much. Like I guess yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Vander Pump Rules has peaked and crashed, but like Summer
house or the houses.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
I guess those do well. And then Love Island.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Yeah, if you're talking about exceptions, of course, there are
exceptions to start up center, exceptions to going to Hollywood
and being an actor too and being successful. I'm just saying,
by and large, before everybody was crushing it, and now
I think it's very specific examples.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
I think that's the crazy thing about like social you
bring up Hollywood. Like I saw there's a post the
other day and it was what is Timothy shall May
and Kylie Jenner and they're saying on his last video
how many hours it took and how many days? And
it was it was extensive and I think he got
paid three million dollars for that, but Kylie Jenner makes
three million on three posts, which you know how much
(14:57):
time does that?
Speaker 1 (14:58):
And that's where the world changed.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
So now we're getting to so this is for me
like all the time, it almost all the time, does
somebody else in the entertainment industry who's pretty big or
famous say to me like we should do a show together,
And I'm always thinking, and then the audience is always like,
when are you gonna do a show again? When are
you back on my TV? And there's no numb you
(15:21):
can't pay. They can't find a number that a TV
show could pay me to. Go today, Go into the city,
put some makeup on, go to a conference room. Meet
some suits that's on the forty seventh floor that took
a fucking security path to get in there. Walk up there,
sit down. Let these suits pretend they know what's gonna sell.
Tell me, eh, we're not really doing that. That's not
(15:42):
doing that. Well these network executives that are literally mid
level and negation. Okay, then we're gonna decide we're gonna
let's say we're gonna do it. We're gonna do it
four months from Thursday. We're gonna No, first we have
to sell it to the network, you know, these are
the executives. But then able to sell it, then in
four months, we're gonna you know, we said yes, we'll
fast track that contract. That's going to take three months.
(16:04):
Four months, we're gonna get up and start filming. But wait,
there's more. Let's bulky film and put makeup on every
day for three months to film it. Then let's have
it end. Then let's wait six months, but wait, there's more.
Then in six months, let's go do a press tour
for a week that Today's but fuck that?
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Fuck that? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Or I could just.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
Post a video last week of me and Miami and
get millions of views, or go to Chanelle get rejected
and have two hundred and fifty million views on.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
That, right, And you think about the numbers up. So
even if you do all that bullshit what you just said,
and then you actually get it to network, what are
the ratings going to be and how many views are
you going to get? And you could do that and
pump that out in three to four videos. I just wonder,
like with your content, Like where the thing I admire
about you is you just don't give a shit. And
I'm just like a boy, you just don't give a shit.
But I'm like, how do you?
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Like?
Speaker 4 (16:55):
You'll trash brands, but you'll build them up. You'll take
people out, but you'll you'll most people like you just
don't care, Like, how do you in this space? I
think anyone that's listening to this, like you have to
be on social and any you could be a teacher,
not for profit, or you could be trying to run
for president United States. Like the impact of social today
in every single position is so important. But where like
(17:17):
I feel like your line of I don't give a
shit is just like it's here, it does. There is
no line you're gonna get a hot.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Do you drop a long a line because I don't.
The way something is said is critical. And in the
past I've said some things that have hit sideways because
of the way that they were said, and it just
didn't need to be said that way. So I'm going
to first of all, not everything needs to be said,
but I'm going to say it if I have a
strong opinion about it, but it's about the way that
it is said.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
And also if you go and you really do dig,
it will come.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Someone might perceive that I'm trashing someone because I'm saying
that I don't agree with something that somebody did. But
you'll never find me criticizing someone's physical appearance, their sexuality, height,
their you know, I won't just give a blind like
that person's a loser.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
I would. I would not.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
So like I'm saying, who in the hell is advising
this person? How could they make this? I'm talking about
their business decision, their marketing decision, they're what they said decision.
So it's always it's always something that may be perceived
because somebody disagrees with me or they like the person
as me trashing that, but it's never actually below the belt.
(18:29):
It's never actually me trashing. It's my opinion of what
they have chosen to do as a public figure or
a public brand.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
That makes sense.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
But even like it, like the like the Baldoni case,
I saw you kind of get into it a little
yeah and you and like you'll start the video with
like I might get canceled for this? Do you ever
have to deal with the reaper cushions of what you're saying?
And like, I don't know, like the just the legality
of it.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
It's not real.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
And like I had a big actor call me who
was freaking out because they were being dragged on social
on like one account but it got a million views
and they were like do should I go comment?
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Should I say something? Should I go?
Speaker 3 (19:17):
You know, because I could call the posters, are you
on your fucking what are you talking about? Even saying
like are you new? No, shut the fuck up, it's
not even real, and he was like wait, but well
I was like, no, it's not real. Just stop. You
call me in two days that this thing hasn't rinsed out.
Nobody cares.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
It's not important.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
And I've done that with pretty big people on social
that have like ten million, twenty million real followers, and
I've advised them because I feel like I could see
things from a marketing and like messaging perspective pretty clearly.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
So I'm going to prove it.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
So JLO was dragged and canceled, just headlined the AMA
killed it.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
How's that?
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Kaylee Bieber?
Speaker 3 (19:55):
You would have thought her career was over her versus
Selena her doing this with justin her, you know, like
something she posted, like something about her skincare canceled, she's done,
Haley Baby's or she's a billionaire now, Like it's not
real and you got to just hold onto the steering
wheel not too tight and you can't let go.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
But there's some I think there's there's something that is
I think there's something real happening right now, which I'm
curious your take on since we're here. Like if you
go back seventeen seventy six, you go back hundreds of
years ago when there was an argument, right Alexander Hamilton,
you go do a duel, you walk across each other,
you take ten steps, you shoot each other, you put
your hand up, like that's how it worked these days.
(20:39):
Obviously that's not the case, but there. I think what
you're starting to see now is character assassination in ways
that it's like kind of the same type of vibe,
but the attempt of teams trying to cancel other teams,
which could be it's sometimes the equivalent of literally like
a killing someone like you can assassinate with Like I
(21:04):
think you're starting to see it now that like teams
in these like groups of mobs can assassinate someone's character
so much online that it could it could wipe them up.
I mean, do you agree with that?
Speaker 3 (21:13):
I mean it depends on it depends on the foundation.
If they're only frosting, like they became famous last year,
get lights Out. But if they're like if it's cake,
you know, like whatever it is with Lake Lively, like
she she's been in this industry.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
For a while. There is cake.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
There there are movies, There are met galiluks, there is beauty,
there is gossip girl. There are many generations you're talking
to at different stages of you know this this ladder
and so she was a time most fascinating person. Now
Candice Owens will say she paid for something and she
gave what.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
It doesn't matter.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
They've moved ticket sales in the world, the two of them,
so you know they're still here. Have they ramped him
up and did he become more relevant?
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Yeah, but like you know, these two went to that
SNL thing. It kept us talking. Jlo hosted the AMAS
like a cat, So they're strong people. These people didn't
get to be a less celebrities by not being strong.
And like I said, Haley's weathered a storm or two too.
So I'm not gonna bet against Blake Lively or Justin
(22:20):
baldoniate this way. But I'm definitely not betting against Ryan
Reynolds and Blake Lively. Am I allowed to say that
this thing is like a fucker East sideways for all
these different reasons that I have institutional knowledge on because
I've literally know both their teams and have heard from
both their teams in different ways when I was speaking
about this. Yeah, but uh, there are very few people
(22:41):
who I'm going to be like call the fight. It's
I mean without criminal activity, because people are so over cancelation.
Cancelation has been canceled, so without criminal activity. It's hard
to really cancel someone who is at has was at
the top of their game unless it's something real.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
So is there I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
I grew up in a space that like, at least
I was taught by parent My parents is like take
the high road and you know, lead with integrity and class.
I feel like we live in a world now, in
social and in life. And to your point, it's like
a lot of what you're saying too is like when
you create the headline and you're the cake, it's fine,
it's probably gonna propel you, not hurt you. You'll be
in the game. But today it feels like kindness can
(23:25):
be mistaken for weakness and almost like not stepping into
like conflict can actually beat the shit out of you.
And like I've always been someone that like step whether
it's an X or something like that, I've always stepped
away from it. I'm always kind of like say about no,
I'm just not gonna I'm not gonna step into it.
But you're someone that like you're a bulldog, You're right
(23:45):
in there.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
You know you could do.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
It either way if you I've seen this on social
media with people that are very famous on social and
then I've seen it with people that are very mainstream famous,
like I don't know why, I just jumped into my mind,
like Drew Barrymore, and the fact that there show went
back on during the pandemic, like that was the most
important thing in the world. Her choice, like because people
are bored and there's a feeding friends and you say,
they want to jump into that, and it felt real
for her in the moment, and she felt they need
(24:08):
to make a statement, which doubled down and made it worse.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
And it happens with other people.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
So you either come in and you give the statement
and then you made the statement, they hate it they
like it, or you keep going, or you completely gaslight it.
You just don't add gas to the fire. You let
it rinse a little once in a while. You put
in something that is like just so you're still alive.
Otherwise you like the bully that got beaten down. Ooh,
the bully doesn't come out anymore. You can't be I mean,
(24:34):
the bullied one can't come out. It doesn't come out anymore.
So you have to be someone who like tiptoes in
and just is like doing content light when you're in
the middle of that, or you hit them and you're like, fuck,
fuck it, this is what happened.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
I'm saying this. Now we're gonna move the fuck on,
and then you just keep going. Either way it works.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
But cancelation is canceled unless it's criminal activity, unless you've
done something horribly horribly wrong.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Have you ever almost been canceled?
Speaker 3 (24:58):
Not full on, because I do think I have a
bit of cake too, But I had one incident where
I said something and it was at the wrong time
and it was a little early. I've said many things
that are early, but I've not said anything that has
not come around to be true eventually. Like so I
said something early and then lost a couple hundred thousand
dollars in brand deals in like one day, and it
(25:19):
felt very real. But I was on the inside of TikTok. No,
that was not TikTok. That was on Twitter. But one
time I was on the inside of TikTok thinking everything
was real. At the same time while selling a book
and my book agent didn't even know what was going
on because I was like in Florida, thinking the storm
that's happening in Florida and Miami is happening in New
(25:40):
York and they were like, what are you talking about?
Because I have dual residency. They're on Instagram. They're over
on Instagram where I have a residency also, and they're like,
what are you talking about? So TikTok's fucked up in
that way. It's very intense.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
What do you mean when you say early you're early
to something? What does that mean?
Speaker 3 (25:54):
I said something about someone that people hadn't jumped on
and figured out for themselves yet, that the society and
the media hadn't caught up to me yet. Happens a
lot like like if someone had said Harvey Weinstein's a
piece of shit, or any of these people in Hollywood
that I know from growing up in Hollywood that they're
all who the scumbags are because I've seen them live
and direct. So then you have a list actresses acting
(26:16):
like after doing seventy six movies with these people, I
never saw it, Like, it's like, shut up, it's not true.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Why is everyone so quiet?
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Like?
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Is it quiet?
Speaker 4 (26:23):
Just it is it scared minds for impact of a
reputation and career.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Yes, because most of them this is not their primary
source of income. So they're like in a more mainstream world,
and it's scary over here. You got to know how
to drive the car.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
That's a hard car to drive.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
I said, I would imagine you've been good. You're good
at that. I don't know about that much about you.
You seem like you'd be okay about that little nervous.
You're more cautious than I am.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Yeah, I'm definitely more cautiously. I mean I have.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
Yeah, Like, if you gave me a scale of like
a G to R rated, I would say, like, my
shit's like PG, like at the amazing.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
PG, And what do you think I am?
Speaker 1 (27:01):
I would say, well, yeah, you're a triple act. I'm scared.
I would say, you're like PG thirteen, you're
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Fuck with R, right, Yeah, up with R.
Host
Bethenny Frankel
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