June 6, 2024 • 12 mins
Getting creative (and paid) with contracts and quintuple dipping like a pro. We're still obsessed with the Chanel content, and, as always, don't tell people how to live (looking at you, Harrison Butker).
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
So people have been enjoying my business stories that seem
just obvious to me because I've talked about them so much.
But I realize that you probably haven't heard them, because
if you haven't read every Forbes, Inc. Business Inside, or
New York Times article that I've been quoted in, or
if you haven't read one of my books, or you
have your own life, or you're new or here, you
(00:35):
may not know some of the stories. And I think
that the first lesson in business that I want to
convey is to be creative with contracts. I think that
people are intimidated by business, intimidated by contracts.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
I don't love contracts.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
They overwhelm me, and yet I'm excellent at them, but
not reading them, not writing them, not contract language, at
navigating them. And contracts should be thought of as chess
and createtivity. So what I'm saying is first season of Housewives.
It is well documented that I only got the two
hundred fifty dollars that we got for the season. But
(01:09):
I saw something in the contract that someone explained to me.
Because someone has to explain something to me for me
to really understand it when it comes to contracts. So
someone explained to me that I would have to sign
away that I would give a piece of any business
to the powers that be at the network. When I
signed on to reality TV, I had no business who cared.
But for some reason I didn't like it. So I
(01:30):
took the low seven two hundred and fifty that was
in the contract. But I said, we're crossing that part out.
They didn't care I was a nobody. They crossed it out.
That was the Skinny Girl deal that landed me on
the cover of Forbes magazine and trust and Believe Bravo
was extremely frustrated that they didn't have part of that,
and they made sure everybody signed that language in the future.
(01:51):
That was the Bethany clause. So that's being creative within
a contract. In addition, prior to that, when I did
the deal with my partner, my lawyer said to me,
do you want to do equity and licensing? I said,
I don't even know the difference. He said, licensing you
start to get money now. It's not the big pay day,
but you start to get paid now, which you have
no money and you're not getting paid anything. He said,
(02:13):
the risk of your proposition is equity. That means it's
your idea, you own it, you have skin in the game.
But if something happens, you take the responsibility. If you
get sued or something happens, you take the responsibility. Most
people would take licensing at that point because I was
a nobody. I had nothing and I just wanted any money.
Ten thousand dollars would have been a million dollars to
me then, But I still said because he explained it
(02:34):
to me and I understood the concept, I was able
to say, no, I'll take equity. This is my ace
in the hole, this is my retirement, this is my
big idea. Now I didn't know would succeed, but conceptually
I understood, and I just knew in both those cases
that conceptually I didn't like what I was hearing, so
I chose that other option. In addition, when I did
(02:58):
my Skinny Girl, big deal came to buy me. They
wanted to buy Skinny Girl cocktails. Gray Goose was bought
for two billion dollars. They sold the entire brand. You
don't see Gray Goose anything now. You can't do a
Gray Goose furnishing line, no drinks, no nothing. It'd be
a great energy drink line, it be a great anything line, nothing,
Grey Goose clothing nothing. Why they bought the whole brand,
(03:20):
They bought all the intellectual property. I didn't understand intellectually
why Beam would need the whole brand because they only
operate in cocktails. So I said, what, I don't want
to sell it to you and everything else. I can
do this in all other categories. I can have jeans,
I can have salad dressing, I can have popcorn, I
can have smoothies, I can have coffee, I can have
(03:40):
anything I want. They said, you're selling the brand. They
wanted it bad. They wanted to copy it. They told
me they were gonna copy it if they didn't if
I didn't sell it to them.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
They kind of had me over a barrel.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
And the numbers now are probably three to five times
more than they would have been then because I started
the celebrity cocktail space in the world way it's seen
today for these big numbers. So they said they were
gonna copy me. I said, fine, but I had them too.
I had a hot brand. They wanted it. I said,
you only need the cocktails. You need to let me
(04:11):
have the other categories. So they said no, I said, well,
tough shit. Then you can't have it.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
I pushed.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
I pushed them, I owned the skinny Gral brand, Beam
only owns it in cocktails. The only thing that they
could exploit it would have been all these other categories.
And I make every year seven figures for fourteen years
on the other categories, a lot of money. So I've
been making money off that deal for years. So that
was the double dip. The triple dip is that they
(04:37):
wanted me to be a spokesperson. They wanted to give
me an endorsement deal that was seven figures every year
also and it lasted for ten years. Here was the kicker.
Here's the quadruple dip. They wanted me to promote certain items.
I said, no problem. I said, I don't want to
promote something I don't want to promote. They said, I
suggested carving out, I would write down a list of
(04:58):
items that I would promote that I wanted to promote,
and a list of things that I didn't want to promote.
Not on that list for did or didn't want was
wine in vodka, something that the next year they wanted
me to promote. I said, I didn't have it on
that list. They said, well, we own the brand, we
can do it. I said, you could do whatever you want.
You could have wine and vodka all day long. I
don't have to promote it. Well, we need you to
(05:19):
promote it. I said, great, then you're going to pay me.
They said, you can't sell the brand. Twice I said, well,
then do it on your own. They ended up having
to pay me a per case fee another seven figures
for the per case. Then the fifth thing was the kicker,
the one time bonus kicker. There was a bonus kicker
that when I mean kicker, it's like a bonus that
(05:42):
one time in the whole contract if you hit one
hundred thousand cases, I think it was, Yeah, if you
hit one hundred thousand cases, you'll get this big, giant.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Multiple million dollar bonus, okay.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
I said in the contract that they had to guarantee
a certain amount of money that they would spend every
year on money marketing, and if they didn't, they would
take one hundred thousand off that number, one hundred thousand
cases off that number. The number was a million cases.
This year we got not We sold nine hundred thousand cases.
I think in the second year they didn't spend that money.
So I got the several million dollar kicker because of it.
(06:17):
If they had spent that money on marketing, I wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Have gotten it.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
But if I hadn't put that language in, they wouldn't
have had to pay it. So I quintuple dipped all
by being creative with contracts, and my real sustainable generational
wealth that's happening is still happening now because of that.
Because I have salad dressing that people are using right now,
that microwave popcorn people are eating right now, skinny girl
(06:40):
coffee that people are drinking right now, skinny girl shape
where that people are wearing right now, and I'm getting
I'm making money on it because those are licensing deals
because I kept that intellectual property. So be creative in contracts.
Understand the contracts. You don't have to be an expert,
but understand what they mean so you can be creative
and thinking about workarounds. On Housewives, there were years that
(07:01):
I would take a small pay bump.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
I was making a lot of money.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
I was making must know six figures an episode, but
where I wouldn't take a massive pay increase because I
would ask for something else creatively, I like, I want
to be able to do shark tank. I want to
be able to do this other thing. I want to
be able to come to trips late and.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Leave them early.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Other language. It made my life easier. Other language. That
made it that I could make money in other ways
long term. So don't only think about the bottom line
in a contract. Think about the creative language in business.
(07:42):
I'm literally I'm having the best time watching people go
into my comment as a spectator sport. So the Chanelle
content that everybody knows about, I don't even have to
tell you about it. I always have to tell you
things because I don't assume that you know anything. I
am justin Bieber now because of the Chanelle content. One
hundred and fifty million plus views on the Chanelle content.
(08:04):
Do you understand that on Bravo you got a million
a million people watch something one hundred and fifty million.
I am literally walking the street being stopped at Chanel.
It's endless, it is an abyss, is infinite, it goes on.
And I did them a favor. I could have gone
to the dark side because my fans were ready to
rip each other's limbs off and beat each other with
them over the Chanelle's story. They were so mad and
(08:24):
they wanted to go storm the castle of Chanel. I
talked them off the ledge and they didn't storm the castle. Instead,
I chose humor. I didn't choose violence. I chose humor. So, Chanel,
I'm waiting for my edible arrangement because I took everybody
over to the funny side and now we're all having
a great time. And the few people that are freaking
trying to find the ants at the Chanell picnic, they're
(08:46):
the ones who are getting mad.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Is it enough? Stop it? Like?
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Okay, first of all, it's my account. Second of all,
it's enough of what of being funny? Of satirical content?
That doesn't matter. But when the few people get mad,
the other people love to come in and beat the
shit out of them, and they get into knock down,
drag out fights, and we get where we get. We're
the trolls trolling the trolls. We get more worked up
and want to do more Chanel content just to piss
(09:13):
off the Chanel trolls. So it's a circular reference. Also, Chanelle,
how is their CMO not doing anything?
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Lean into it?
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Make it something like I can't even believe that you're
not just being part of the joke.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Help some people.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Take some people into your store, give them some free
Chanel bags. Cost like fifty dollars to make a Chanel bag.
Maximum maximum They used to be in twenty four carra gold.
But now I walk by the store and I see
Steve Madden and he's knocking off Chanell and Arimez every
which way. But Sunday I'm gonna start wearing only Steve
Steve Madden Chanelle's shoes. Now like it's it's it's called
(09:55):
like warfare. Now like it's full on. I mean it's
it's like I would never have promoted someone whose entire
lifeblood is to just knock off. But now it's called
like all thats are off. Shameless shameless shameless copying of
Aaron Mes and Chanelle. You know why, cause you make
an exclusive club. You make it that people can't buy watches,
(10:17):
can't buy bags, can't go into luxury stores.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
What Like it's like the VIP section how to get
into a luxury store? Are we okay?
Speaker 1 (10:28):
You walk into a watch store for exhibition only, for
exhibition only, You're not a lot to walk into a
watch store. Luke Colmbs did a whole thing on walking
in and asking for a rollox. So like, godd funny,
you should ask like he's walking into a rolex store
asking for a rolex. What is he supposed to go
in there and ask for a vibrator? Like, what the fuck?
Speaker 2 (10:46):
That's what it is. It's a rolex store. Insane.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
We never talked about that, Harrison Bucker in his commencement speech,
which I've been thinking about a lot, and it comes
up a lot. And I think the interesting thing is
not that anyone criticizing being a homemaker, being a wife
making that choice. It's criticizing the sentiment that that's the
most important job and that that should be shoved down
people's throats what they're supposed to feel and think, particularly
(11:13):
after graduating from school.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
And I think that.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
I'd be remiss if I didn't say to you that
I think that there's a power in having your own skill, set,
your own money.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Not think I know anything can happen.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
What happens someone passes away, you're in a relationship with athlete,
They get hurt, like you didn't know how to do
the finances.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
You know you need earning power. You never know what's
going to happen.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Someone could go broke, someone could get ill, something could happen.
God for there is a medical situation in a family,
you need money for a rainy dam, and shit does happen.
So as a woman, it's pretty critical that you have
your own thing. You don't have to choose to be
working in the grind every single day. This is not
a prescription or a punishment. It's just saying, like, why
would you not want to have some identity that's your own,
(11:58):
some skill set, some marketable skill that you know, or
some industry you know, or a nest egg or anything,
just to have some freedom. There's no way that someone
could know exactly how it's going to go for the
next twenty years with another person.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
You just can't know.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
You think it's great, but the sixty percent of divorces
aren't because everything seemed, you know, great. It's because everything
seemed great and then life got in the way. People
grew and people evolved and things happened and people were
presented with different opportunities and it's not that easy.
So people have been enjoying my business stories that seem
just obvious to me because I've talked about them so much.
But I realize that you probably haven't heard them, because
if you haven't read every Forbes, Inc. Business Inside, or
New York Times article that I've been quoted in, or
if you haven't read one of my books, or you
have your own life, or you're new or here, you
(00:35):
may not know some of the stories. And I think
that the first lesson in business that I want to
convey is to be creative with contracts. I think that
people are intimidated by business, intimidated by contracts.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
I don't love contracts.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
They overwhelm me, and yet I'm excellent at them, but
not reading them, not writing them, not contract language, at
navigating them. And contracts should be thought of as chess
and createtivity. So what I'm saying is first season of Housewives.
It is well documented that I only got the two
hundred fifty dollars that we got for the season. But
(01:09):
I saw something in the contract that someone explained to me.
Because someone has to explain something to me for me
to really understand it when it comes to contracts. So
someone explained to me that I would have to sign
away that I would give a piece of any business
to the powers that be at the network. When I
signed on to reality TV, I had no business who cared.
But for some reason I didn't like it. So I
(01:30):
took the low seven two hundred and fifty that was
in the contract. But I said, we're crossing that part out.
They didn't care I was a nobody. They crossed it out.
That was the Skinny Girl deal that landed me on
the cover of Forbes magazine and trust and Believe Bravo
was extremely frustrated that they didn't have part of that,
and they made sure everybody signed that language in the future.
(01:51):
That was the Bethany clause. So that's being creative within
a contract. In addition, prior to that, when I did
the deal with my partner, my lawyer said to me,
do you want to do equity and licensing? I said,
I don't even know the difference. He said, licensing you
start to get money now. It's not the big pay day,
but you start to get paid now, which you have
no money and you're not getting paid anything. He said,
(02:13):
the risk of your proposition is equity. That means it's
your idea, you own it, you have skin in the game.
But if something happens, you take the responsibility. If you
get sued or something happens, you take the responsibility. Most
people would take licensing at that point because I was
a nobody. I had nothing and I just wanted any money.
Ten thousand dollars would have been a million dollars to
me then, But I still said because he explained it
(02:34):
to me and I understood the concept, I was able
to say, no, I'll take equity. This is my ace
in the hole, this is my retirement, this is my
big idea. Now I didn't know would succeed, but conceptually
I understood, and I just knew in both those cases
that conceptually I didn't like what I was hearing, so
I chose that other option. In addition, when I did
(02:58):
my Skinny Girl, big deal came to buy me. They
wanted to buy Skinny Girl cocktails. Gray Goose was bought
for two billion dollars. They sold the entire brand. You
don't see Gray Goose anything now. You can't do a
Gray Goose furnishing line, no drinks, no nothing. It'd be
a great energy drink line, it be a great anything line, nothing,
Grey Goose clothing nothing. Why they bought the whole brand,
(03:20):
They bought all the intellectual property. I didn't understand intellectually
why Beam would need the whole brand because they only
operate in cocktails. So I said, what, I don't want
to sell it to you and everything else. I can
do this in all other categories. I can have jeans,
I can have salad dressing, I can have popcorn, I
can have smoothies, I can have coffee, I can have
(03:40):
anything I want. They said, you're selling the brand. They
wanted it bad. They wanted to copy it. They told
me they were gonna copy it if they didn't if
I didn't sell it to them.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
They kind of had me over a barrel.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
And the numbers now are probably three to five times
more than they would have been then because I started
the celebrity cocktail space in the world way it's seen
today for these big numbers. So they said they were
gonna copy me. I said, fine, but I had them too.
I had a hot brand. They wanted it. I said,
you only need the cocktails. You need to let me
(04:11):
have the other categories. So they said no, I said, well,
tough shit. Then you can't have it.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
I pushed.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
I pushed them, I owned the skinny Gral brand, Beam
only owns it in cocktails. The only thing that they
could exploit it would have been all these other categories.
And I make every year seven figures for fourteen years
on the other categories, a lot of money. So I've
been making money off that deal for years. So that
was the double dip. The triple dip is that they
(04:37):
wanted me to be a spokesperson. They wanted to give
me an endorsement deal that was seven figures every year
also and it lasted for ten years. Here was the kicker.
Here's the quadruple dip. They wanted me to promote certain items.
I said, no problem. I said, I don't want to
promote something I don't want to promote. They said, I
suggested carving out, I would write down a list of
(04:58):
items that I would promote that I wanted to promote,
and a list of things that I didn't want to promote.
Not on that list for did or didn't want was
wine in vodka, something that the next year they wanted
me to promote. I said, I didn't have it on
that list. They said, well, we own the brand, we
can do it. I said, you could do whatever you want.
You could have wine and vodka all day long. I
don't have to promote it. Well, we need you to
(05:19):
promote it. I said, great, then you're going to pay me.
They said, you can't sell the brand. Twice I said, well,
then do it on your own. They ended up having
to pay me a per case fee another seven figures
for the per case. Then the fifth thing was the kicker,
the one time bonus kicker. There was a bonus kicker
that when I mean kicker, it's like a bonus that
(05:42):
one time in the whole contract if you hit one
hundred thousand cases, I think it was, Yeah, if you
hit one hundred thousand cases, you'll get this big, giant.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Multiple million dollar bonus, okay.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
I said in the contract that they had to guarantee
a certain amount of money that they would spend every
year on money marketing, and if they didn't, they would
take one hundred thousand off that number, one hundred thousand
cases off that number. The number was a million cases.
This year we got not We sold nine hundred thousand cases.
I think in the second year they didn't spend that money.
So I got the several million dollar kicker because of it.
(06:17):
If they had spent that money on marketing, I wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Have gotten it.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
But if I hadn't put that language in, they wouldn't
have had to pay it. So I quintuple dipped all
by being creative with contracts, and my real sustainable generational
wealth that's happening is still happening now because of that.
Because I have salad dressing that people are using right now,
that microwave popcorn people are eating right now, skinny girl
(06:40):
coffee that people are drinking right now, skinny girl shape
where that people are wearing right now, and I'm getting
I'm making money on it because those are licensing deals
because I kept that intellectual property. So be creative in contracts.
Understand the contracts. You don't have to be an expert,
but understand what they mean so you can be creative
and thinking about workarounds. On Housewives, there were years that
(07:01):
I would take a small pay bump.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
I was making a lot of money.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
I was making must know six figures an episode, but
where I wouldn't take a massive pay increase because I
would ask for something else creatively, I like, I want
to be able to do shark tank. I want to
be able to do this other thing. I want to
be able to come to trips late and.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Leave them early.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Other language. It made my life easier. Other language. That
made it that I could make money in other ways
long term. So don't only think about the bottom line
in a contract. Think about the creative language in business.
(07:42):
I'm literally I'm having the best time watching people go
into my comment as a spectator sport. So the Chanelle
content that everybody knows about, I don't even have to
tell you about it. I always have to tell you
things because I don't assume that you know anything. I
am justin Bieber now because of the Chanelle content. One
hundred and fifty million plus views on the Chanelle content.
(08:04):
Do you understand that on Bravo you got a million
a million people watch something one hundred and fifty million.
I am literally walking the street being stopped at Chanel.
It's endless, it is an abyss, is infinite, it goes on.
And I did them a favor. I could have gone
to the dark side because my fans were ready to
rip each other's limbs off and beat each other with
them over the Chanelle's story. They were so mad and
(08:24):
they wanted to go storm the castle of Chanel. I
talked them off the ledge and they didn't storm the castle. Instead,
I chose humor. I didn't choose violence. I chose humor. So, Chanel,
I'm waiting for my edible arrangement because I took everybody
over to the funny side and now we're all having
a great time. And the few people that are freaking
trying to find the ants at the Chanell picnic, they're
(08:46):
the ones who are getting mad.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Is it enough? Stop it? Like?
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Okay, first of all, it's my account. Second of all,
it's enough of what of being funny? Of satirical content?
That doesn't matter. But when the few people get mad,
the other people love to come in and beat the
shit out of them, and they get into knock down,
drag out fights, and we get where we get. We're
the trolls trolling the trolls. We get more worked up
and want to do more Chanel content just to piss
(09:13):
off the Chanel trolls. So it's a circular reference. Also, Chanelle,
how is their CMO not doing anything?
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Lean into it?
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Make it something like I can't even believe that you're
not just being part of the joke.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Help some people.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Take some people into your store, give them some free
Chanel bags. Cost like fifty dollars to make a Chanel bag.
Maximum maximum They used to be in twenty four carra gold.
But now I walk by the store and I see
Steve Madden and he's knocking off Chanell and Arimez every
which way. But Sunday I'm gonna start wearing only Steve
Steve Madden Chanelle's shoes. Now like it's it's it's called
(09:55):
like warfare. Now like it's full on. I mean it's
it's like I would never have promoted someone whose entire
lifeblood is to just knock off. But now it's called
like all thats are off. Shameless shameless shameless copying of
Aaron Mes and Chanelle. You know why, cause you make
an exclusive club. You make it that people can't buy watches,
(10:17):
can't buy bags, can't go into luxury stores.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
What Like it's like the VIP section how to get
into a luxury store? Are we okay?
Speaker 1 (10:28):
You walk into a watch store for exhibition only, for
exhibition only, You're not a lot to walk into a
watch store. Luke Colmbs did a whole thing on walking
in and asking for a rollox. So like, godd funny,
you should ask like he's walking into a rolex store
asking for a rolex. What is he supposed to go
in there and ask for a vibrator? Like, what the fuck?
Speaker 2 (10:46):
That's what it is. It's a rolex store. Insane.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
We never talked about that, Harrison Bucker in his commencement speech,
which I've been thinking about a lot, and it comes
up a lot. And I think the interesting thing is
not that anyone criticizing being a homemaker, being a wife
making that choice. It's criticizing the sentiment that that's the
most important job and that that should be shoved down
people's throats what they're supposed to feel and think, particularly
(11:13):
after graduating from school.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
And I think that.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
I'd be remiss if I didn't say to you that
I think that there's a power in having your own skill, set,
your own money.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Not think I know anything can happen.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
What happens someone passes away, you're in a relationship with athlete,
They get hurt, like you didn't know how to do
the finances.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
You know you need earning power. You never know what's
going to happen.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Someone could go broke, someone could get ill, something could happen.
God for there is a medical situation in a family,
you need money for a rainy dam, and shit does happen.
So as a woman, it's pretty critical that you have
your own thing. You don't have to choose to be
working in the grind every single day. This is not
a prescription or a punishment. It's just saying, like, why
would you not want to have some identity that's your own,
(11:58):
some skill set, some marketable skill that you know, or
some industry you know, or a nest egg or anything,
just to have some freedom. There's no way that someone
could know exactly how it's going to go for the
next twenty years with another person.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
You just can't know.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
You think it's great, but the sixty percent of divorces
aren't because everything seemed, you know, great. It's because everything
seemed great and then life got in the way. People
grew and people evolved and things happened and people were
presented with different opportunities and it's not that easy.
Host
Bethenny Frankel
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