April 4, 2025 • 12 mins
She's thriving. He's spiraling. Guess what happens next. PLUS: Slimy Real Estate Agents
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
All right, dating, let's talk about competition in relationships. It's
a real thing, and it doesn't have to be so overt.
But competition in relationships is a real, real thing for
many reasons. It's often about insecurity and one person feeling
(00:32):
either inferior or marginalized. And it could go both ways,
because someone could be good in one way and the
other person could be good in another way. But and
it doesn't have to be so overt. It could be subtle.
But I have definitely experienced it, and I've also experienced
someone having something to prove in a relationship where you
(00:53):
have something going on and then the other person feels
inferior and they have to have as much going on
for them. They have to justify their value in themselves
within the relationship, and it's a recipe for disaster. The
ideal situation is two people are going in the same direction,
but they each have different skill sets, different arenas that
(01:14):
they operate in, and each your complimentary to the other.
You could talk to each other about what you're doing,
but you're not in some sort of like ancillary adjacent
industry where you're going to feel self conscious if you're
not doing as well as the other person. I think
actually that guy, Craig Conover, if that's the one who's
(01:35):
the one who was dating the girl page, I think
it was Craig Conover.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I think they.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Alluded to that, like she alluded to basically, when something
happened for her, he would either make it about him
or she would feel self conscious about it because they're
in similar businesses and they started out at the same place.
So it's like two housewives starting out at the same
place is going to be different than one persons working
in a restaurant.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
The other person's a housewife, and they're both succeeding.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
I have friends that are in completely different worlds than
I am, so there's no discussion about us starting at
the same place. And it happens in relationships. They both
started in reality TV in that example, and so it
is probably awkward if one person is getting more opportunities
or more vacations, or more money, or more fame or
(02:20):
more whatever, and then their gender roles maybe a man's
getting more than a woman or a woman getting more
than a man in a career like modeling or something.
And it doesn't mean it has to be that they're
bad people. Like let's just pretend that the guy Craig
could be triggered by how much was going on for her.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
First of all, it's a long road, it's a marathon.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
He's apparently now dating some gorgeous girl, Jimmy Buffett's daughter,
and they have to live that publicly, and that's got
to be hard for her, even if she's not still
into him. It's just a whole mixed bag. But the
point is it's no one's fault. It's just a dynamic
that you really do want to avoid. And if you
find yourself dumbing yourself down and dimming your own light
because you're worried about what the other person doesn't have,
(02:59):
or I've historically done this, tried to get the person
i'm with the job, or get them some part of
something that I'm doing because I want them to feel
valued and part of it because I feel self conscious
about all the things happening for me.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
So it's like, no, you would totally add value. Maybe
you should get involved, Maybe you should invest.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
I could call them and ask, maybe I could get
you a job, like I've done that, and it's a
recipe for disaster.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
It's really a bad scene.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
I mean, there have been exceptions where opportunities have come
to me and someone I've been in a relationship can
add value because it's not my core skill set. It
can be negotiating a deal or contracts or something. And
then I mean, what has happened is opportunities have come
to me. I've known conceptually what I want to do
with them, and the person that I've with, I've asked
if they can add value or negotiate.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
And make something happen.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
And then one situation they put up the money because
the opportunity came for me, but I added the sort
of marketing value and that was a good partnership. But
even still I always end up with more equity than
the other person, and they up feeling marginalized because they
know that they're a secondary character in it. And it
comes in many shapes and forms. It can come in
(04:06):
real estate, it can come in the man's home watching
the kids.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
It can come.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
But I just you gotta really be mindful of it
because in the beginning, it may seem like it's going
to be fine, and a man may seem like it
doesn't care, but or it may not even be a man.
It could be two women in a lesbian relationship, it
will come up. If it's coming up at all, cracks
become creators. It's a real thing. Competition and relationships is
a real thing, just like it's a real thing with friendships.
(04:30):
It could happen with sports. It could happen with pickleball,
It could happened with tennis, It could happen with weight.
I've heard situations where a couple is both overweight and
one of them decides to lose weight, and the other
one feels super self conscious, like they feel they used
to eat together, they used to self deprecate together, they
used to self loath together, they used to binge together,
they used.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
To you know, review food together.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Then one decides to get in shape and the other doesn't,
and it's awkward and it's weird, and one person could
be jealous, they could be competitive. You could hide that
you're losing weight. I mean, it happens in so many
different ways. You know, one person decides to just glow up,
get into health and fitness and become a vegetarian or
a vegan, and the other person wants us to lead
fried chicken. Like it happens, so be mindful of it.
(05:27):
Let's talk about something my therapist said the other day
about dating someone different than you. So in my dating adventure,
I've met so many different types, and depending upon who's
setting me up, there are different types that I meet,
and you know, I always I'm sort of attracted to
a similar type. And I don't even mean physically, yes, physically,
I like boys, charm, I like smarter, like conservative, I
like has no social media opposite of me.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
I don't like a hot shot. I don't like a bragger.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
But I like a very successful person, a wealthy person,
a person who I'm not going to have to hide
what I'm buying and doing or feel self conscious about
money as a character relationship. And I have met so
many people that have like this sort of that East
Coast you know, flight ball or has an edge, that person.
And more recently I've been introduced to people that are
(06:13):
a little more conservative in maybe like they're not New Yorkers,
they're from you know, the South or the Midwest. They're
more conservative, they're more kind, they might be religious, like
just a different type of person.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
And we're usually if you listen, if you're Jewish.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
And your parents want you to marry someone Jewish, and
that's something that's important to you, or you're Catholic, that's
you know, that's one thing.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
But if if it's really just because of it's what
you know.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
It means like you've only ever you've never tried eggplants,
so you'll never try eggblup. But then if you start
making egg plan in different ways, you might actually love it.
And I mean by this that like, why not try
to date people that are very different and be open
because you might grow, you might learn something, you might change,
you might become a better person. This person could have
a good influence on you, could be a good influence
(07:05):
on you. And particularly if you're like me and you've
failed so many times and you've had the worst picker
and you've made the wrong choices, why not try something
new from a different place, from a different culture, from
a different industry. And that's what I'm finding really fascinating,
Like it's a nature versus nurture thing. What if two
(07:25):
people are fundamentally similar, meaning they're both good people, they're
both moral people, they both like to have fun, but
one grew up one way and another grow up the
other way. That's just really that's nurture. That means that's
like society making who each person is versus nature, which
is who we fundamentally are, you know, And yes, of
course nurture creates a good person or a bad person.
(07:48):
But I just mean I have met people that are
from such different planets than myself. But I've found that
maybe I'm super braggy, or maybe I, you know, am
irreverent and outspoken and brash, and maybe someone's a little
more conservative and controlled and quiet, but like we could
fundamentally be the same. They may not have loud humor,
they may have a quieter humor, but they get my
sense of humor. I may be attracted to them because
(08:10):
they're quiet and conservative. They may be attracted to me
because I'm wild, and we would seem like an unlikely couple.
So I've been more open, and I suggest that you
are too, in the same way that you are with
cuisine or visiting different cultures, or being open to different
types of people, maybe body types, maybe different sports.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
So I am open.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
It happens too with people that are like I won't
date someone bald, I won't date someone short, I won't
date someone white, I won't date someone black. Like people
have these things where I won't date someone Jewish, I
won't date someone Catholic like and I think being just
open minded about everyone is a great policy because, as
my therapist says, you're dating an other, that means it's
(08:51):
an other, a person they're not supposed to be you.
You're not dating yourself or marrying yourself. You're trying to
create a situation where you have a partner. The sum
is greater than its parts. In work, in business, a
good partner is someone who's good at very different things.
They compliment your skill set. You're like a puzzle that
(09:13):
fits together. They're not a mirror image of you. You
don't need two people Bernie Topp and Ellen John they have.
There are two different sides of this thing. It used
to be Calvin Klein and Barry Schwartz, the business and
the creative, Like those are the best marriages. So the
best marriages are probably opposite sides of the coin. I
actually don't know why, but I just thought of like
Lisa and Harry Hamlin. They're going in the same direction,
but they're very different. He's sort of more cerebral and
(09:36):
you know, quiet, and she's been out there and outspoken.
He appreciates her for who she is, he's not dumbing
her down, and they celebrate each other. So I would
just say for me, I am trying to be very
open minded in this next chapter and learn and grow.
Real estate brokers are scumbags. Let's talk about real estate.
(09:57):
I've been going through a real estate transaction recently, and
I am a trusting person, which is shocking because I've
been so fucked over my whole life. It's shocking. But
I met with some real estate brokers recently. One person
showed me something that I really liked and did not disclose,
which in my brief time trying to study for the
real estate exam, which I failed every single quiz. I
Paul and I were both failing the quiz he's in
(10:18):
real estate.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
It was pserahical but not that funny. But I don't
think it's that easy. And I didn't pass the test.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
I didn't even take the test, but I went ahead
that course, paid one hundred something dollars for like fifteen hours.
And but one of the things I remember is that
you have to like disclose certain things, like if there's
a dead body in the basement that you know about,
you need to tell people if it's on a train track.
You need to tell people things that they might not
know blind spots, and one would be this thing is
that the back of the house is on a cemetery.
So I was about to offer something on his property,
(10:43):
and the guy did not tell me that, and someone
else in the neighborhood did, and that there was I
guess a Starbucks right near, which didn't bother me because
that would be convenient coffee. But it wasn't the best
street in this particular neighborhood because of the Starbucks and
a cemetery. For whatever reason, neither of that really bothered me.
But the truth is, I want wanted to know it.
That's frightening for but the price was disproportionately low for
(11:04):
such an amazing house. And I came into the guy
and I go, Hi, you didn't disclose it there was
a cemetery. We were about to sign the contract. He's like, yeah,
would have told you. I'm like, when when I fucking
live in there on top of a caffeinated dead body.
So I've had They're just just go into every real
estate transaction discussion contract showing hiring fire. They're all scumbags, Okay,
(11:27):
just go into it with that now there may be
some exceptions like anything else, but really go into buying
a car and real estate with the understanding that they
are mostly many real estate professionals are scamming scumbags.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
And because of.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
The market right now and because of people's financial fears,
real estate brokers are more like there's blood in the
water than ever and they are shady creatures. They are
just shady creep and they find a way in the
contract to put in some shady language where they can
get more And I'm not my friend just caught something
(12:09):
in a contract where there's only supposed to be one
broker's fee but they tried to slip in another. Or
who's paying the closing costs, Like you have to be savvy,
you have to have someone really good looking at every angle.
You have to take your time, you have to be
patient because they will screw you over
All right, dating, let's talk about competition in relationships. It's
a real thing, and it doesn't have to be so overt.
But competition in relationships is a real, real thing for
many reasons. It's often about insecurity and one person feeling
(00:32):
either inferior or marginalized. And it could go both ways,
because someone could be good in one way and the
other person could be good in another way. But and
it doesn't have to be so overt. It could be subtle.
But I have definitely experienced it, and I've also experienced
someone having something to prove in a relationship where you
(00:53):
have something going on and then the other person feels
inferior and they have to have as much going on
for them. They have to justify their value in themselves
within the relationship, and it's a recipe for disaster. The
ideal situation is two people are going in the same direction,
but they each have different skill sets, different arenas that
(01:14):
they operate in, and each your complimentary to the other.
You could talk to each other about what you're doing,
but you're not in some sort of like ancillary adjacent
industry where you're going to feel self conscious if you're
not doing as well as the other person. I think
actually that guy, Craig Conover, if that's the one who's
(01:35):
the one who was dating the girl page, I think
it was Craig Conover.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I think they.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Alluded to that, like she alluded to basically, when something
happened for her, he would either make it about him
or she would feel self conscious about it because they're
in similar businesses and they started out at the same place.
So it's like two housewives starting out at the same
place is going to be different than one persons working
in a restaurant.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
The other person's a housewife, and they're both succeeding.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
I have friends that are in completely different worlds than
I am, so there's no discussion about us starting at
the same place. And it happens in relationships. They both
started in reality TV in that example, and so it
is probably awkward if one person is getting more opportunities
or more vacations, or more money, or more fame or
(02:20):
more whatever, and then their gender roles maybe a man's
getting more than a woman or a woman getting more
than a man in a career like modeling or something.
And it doesn't mean it has to be that they're
bad people. Like let's just pretend that the guy Craig
could be triggered by how much was going on for her.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
First of all, it's a long road, it's a marathon.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
He's apparently now dating some gorgeous girl, Jimmy Buffett's daughter,
and they have to live that publicly, and that's got
to be hard for her, even if she's not still
into him. It's just a whole mixed bag. But the
point is it's no one's fault. It's just a dynamic
that you really do want to avoid. And if you
find yourself dumbing yourself down and dimming your own light
because you're worried about what the other person doesn't have,
(02:59):
or I've historically done this, tried to get the person
i'm with the job, or get them some part of
something that I'm doing because I want them to feel
valued and part of it because I feel self conscious
about all the things happening for me.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
So it's like, no, you would totally add value. Maybe
you should get involved, Maybe you should invest.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
I could call them and ask, maybe I could get
you a job, like I've done that, and it's a
recipe for disaster.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
It's really a bad scene.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
I mean, there have been exceptions where opportunities have come
to me and someone I've been in a relationship can
add value because it's not my core skill set. It
can be negotiating a deal or contracts or something. And
then I mean, what has happened is opportunities have come
to me. I've known conceptually what I want to do
with them, and the person that I've with, I've asked
if they can add value or negotiate.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
And make something happen.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
And then one situation they put up the money because
the opportunity came for me, but I added the sort
of marketing value and that was a good partnership. But
even still I always end up with more equity than
the other person, and they up feeling marginalized because they
know that they're a secondary character in it. And it
comes in many shapes and forms. It can come in
(04:06):
real estate, it can come in the man's home watching
the kids.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
It can come.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
But I just you gotta really be mindful of it
because in the beginning, it may seem like it's going
to be fine, and a man may seem like it
doesn't care, but or it may not even be a man.
It could be two women in a lesbian relationship, it
will come up. If it's coming up at all, cracks
become creators. It's a real thing. Competition and relationships is
a real thing, just like it's a real thing with friendships.
(04:30):
It could happen with sports. It could happen with pickleball,
It could happened with tennis, It could happen with weight.
I've heard situations where a couple is both overweight and
one of them decides to lose weight, and the other
one feels super self conscious, like they feel they used
to eat together, they used to self deprecate together, they
used to self loath together, they used to binge together,
they used.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
To you know, review food together.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Then one decides to get in shape and the other doesn't,
and it's awkward and it's weird, and one person could
be jealous, they could be competitive. You could hide that
you're losing weight. I mean, it happens in so many
different ways. You know, one person decides to just glow up,
get into health and fitness and become a vegetarian or
a vegan, and the other person wants us to lead
fried chicken. Like it happens, so be mindful of it.
(05:27):
Let's talk about something my therapist said the other day
about dating someone different than you. So in my dating adventure,
I've met so many different types, and depending upon who's
setting me up, there are different types that I meet,
and you know, I always I'm sort of attracted to
a similar type. And I don't even mean physically, yes, physically,
I like boys, charm, I like smarter, like conservative, I
like has no social media opposite of me.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
I don't like a hot shot. I don't like a bragger.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
But I like a very successful person, a wealthy person,
a person who I'm not going to have to hide
what I'm buying and doing or feel self conscious about
money as a character relationship. And I have met so
many people that have like this sort of that East
Coast you know, flight ball or has an edge, that person.
And more recently I've been introduced to people that are
(06:13):
a little more conservative in maybe like they're not New Yorkers,
they're from you know, the South or the Midwest. They're
more conservative, they're more kind, they might be religious, like
just a different type of person.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
And we're usually if you listen, if you're Jewish.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
And your parents want you to marry someone Jewish, and
that's something that's important to you, or you're Catholic, that's
you know, that's one thing.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
But if if it's really just because of it's what
you know.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
It means like you've only ever you've never tried eggplants,
so you'll never try eggblup. But then if you start
making egg plan in different ways, you might actually love it.
And I mean by this that like, why not try
to date people that are very different and be open
because you might grow, you might learn something, you might change,
you might become a better person. This person could have
a good influence on you, could be a good influence
(07:05):
on you. And particularly if you're like me and you've
failed so many times and you've had the worst picker
and you've made the wrong choices, why not try something
new from a different place, from a different culture, from
a different industry. And that's what I'm finding really fascinating,
Like it's a nature versus nurture thing. What if two
(07:25):
people are fundamentally similar, meaning they're both good people, they're
both moral people, they both like to have fun, but
one grew up one way and another grow up the
other way. That's just really that's nurture. That means that's
like society making who each person is versus nature, which
is who we fundamentally are, you know, And yes, of
course nurture creates a good person or a bad person.
(07:48):
But I just mean I have met people that are
from such different planets than myself. But I've found that
maybe I'm super braggy, or maybe I, you know, am
irreverent and outspoken and brash, and maybe someone's a little
more conservative and controlled and quiet, but like we could
fundamentally be the same. They may not have loud humor,
they may have a quieter humor, but they get my
sense of humor. I may be attracted to them because
(08:10):
they're quiet and conservative. They may be attracted to me
because I'm wild, and we would seem like an unlikely couple.
So I've been more open, and I suggest that you
are too, in the same way that you are with
cuisine or visiting different cultures, or being open to different
types of people, maybe body types, maybe different sports.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
So I am open.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
It happens too with people that are like I won't
date someone bald, I won't date someone short, I won't
date someone white, I won't date someone black. Like people
have these things where I won't date someone Jewish, I
won't date someone Catholic like and I think being just
open minded about everyone is a great policy because, as
my therapist says, you're dating an other, that means it's
(08:51):
an other, a person they're not supposed to be you.
You're not dating yourself or marrying yourself. You're trying to
create a situation where you have a partner. The sum
is greater than its parts. In work, in business, a
good partner is someone who's good at very different things.
They compliment your skill set. You're like a puzzle that
(09:13):
fits together. They're not a mirror image of you. You
don't need two people Bernie Topp and Ellen John they have.
There are two different sides of this thing. It used
to be Calvin Klein and Barry Schwartz, the business and
the creative, Like those are the best marriages. So the
best marriages are probably opposite sides of the coin. I
actually don't know why, but I just thought of like
Lisa and Harry Hamlin. They're going in the same direction,
but they're very different. He's sort of more cerebral and
(09:36):
you know, quiet, and she's been out there and outspoken.
He appreciates her for who she is, he's not dumbing
her down, and they celebrate each other. So I would
just say for me, I am trying to be very
open minded in this next chapter and learn and grow.
Real estate brokers are scumbags. Let's talk about real estate.
(09:57):
I've been going through a real estate transaction recently, and
I am a trusting person, which is shocking because I've
been so fucked over my whole life. It's shocking. But
I met with some real estate brokers recently. One person
showed me something that I really liked and did not disclose,
which in my brief time trying to study for the
real estate exam, which I failed every single quiz. I
Paul and I were both failing the quiz he's in
(10:18):
real estate.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
It was pserahical but not that funny. But I don't
think it's that easy. And I didn't pass the test.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
I didn't even take the test, but I went ahead
that course, paid one hundred something dollars for like fifteen hours.
And but one of the things I remember is that
you have to like disclose certain things, like if there's
a dead body in the basement that you know about,
you need to tell people if it's on a train track.
You need to tell people things that they might not
know blind spots, and one would be this thing is
that the back of the house is on a cemetery.
So I was about to offer something on his property,
(10:43):
and the guy did not tell me that, and someone
else in the neighborhood did, and that there was I
guess a Starbucks right near, which didn't bother me because
that would be convenient coffee. But it wasn't the best
street in this particular neighborhood because of the Starbucks and
a cemetery. For whatever reason, neither of that really bothered me.
But the truth is, I want wanted to know it.
That's frightening for but the price was disproportionately low for
(11:04):
such an amazing house. And I came into the guy
and I go, Hi, you didn't disclose it there was
a cemetery. We were about to sign the contract. He's like, yeah,
would have told you. I'm like, when when I fucking
live in there on top of a caffeinated dead body.
So I've had They're just just go into every real
estate transaction discussion contract showing hiring fire. They're all scumbags, Okay,
(11:27):
just go into it with that now there may be
some exceptions like anything else, but really go into buying
a car and real estate with the understanding that they
are mostly many real estate professionals are scamming scumbags.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
And because of.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
The market right now and because of people's financial fears,
real estate brokers are more like there's blood in the
water than ever and they are shady creatures. They are
just shady creep and they find a way in the
contract to put in some shady language where they can
get more And I'm not my friend just caught something
(12:09):
in a contract where there's only supposed to be one
broker's fee but they tried to slip in another. Or
who's paying the closing costs, Like you have to be savvy,
you have to have someone really good looking at every angle.
You have to take your time, you have to be
patient because they will screw you over
Host
Bethenny Frankel
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