September 20, 2024 • 13 mins
Debates are reality TV, and the Housewives principles apply. PLUS: We can learn a lot about politics from the beauty industry.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
So I'm a little behind the eight ball on the debate.
And I talked recently about how people can't have a
different opinion in twenty twenty four. Someone voting for Kamala
can't be at the same tables. Some are voting for
Trump in twenty twenty four. And when I was a kid,
it wasn't like that, And so people theoretically now can't
(00:34):
be married who are voting for different candidates. And I
was talking to my friend Sarah, who told me she
was voting with her body, and another friend said they're
voting with their wallet. And I've talked about how it's
a luxury to be able to have different issues on
someone's platform that are the reason you're voting for them,
(00:55):
meaning like if you donate to authritis because you know
someone who is athritis, or someone in your family does,
or cancer or things like that, it's something that is
near and dear to you. It's important to you, it's
close to your heart, and people vote in that way. Also,
like people vote because of their wallet, because of their body,
because they want to be married, and they're gay, because
of their families in the military, whatever their reason is.
(01:18):
There are many people who don't really have the luxury
of picking issues. They are just they are starving. They're
literally starving, and they just want to vote to be
able to possibly survive, or to pay their rent, or
to eat. And that I gave this advice that I
think that people should really do two things at the
same time. You're kind of playing chess and checkers at
the same time. You're deciding what you want to do
(01:41):
based on your issues and your life because you're one
person with the power of one vote, but also the
chest of it is and also what's best for the
whole country, because if your body's in check but you're
going to be bombed and go to war, then what
does that mean You don't have a body necessarily. So
it's very confusing, and we're fed so much information from
(02:04):
different news outlets. If you're on CNN, people are rolling
their eyes at Trump. If you're on Fox, people are
laughing at Kamala. And it wasn't this, it wasn't this
glaring when we were kids, where it was like, I mean,
I you know, I remember watching Chris Cuomo and Don
Lemon like like laughing at you know, and then on
the other side, you know, people on Fox laughing at Kamala,
(02:30):
Like it's just it's just different than it used to be.
So it's harder for the average person to make their
own decisions because we also are a product of what
we're being fed by the machine. So who has the
better machine, meaning they're in beauty, for example, I talk
about beauty all the time, and it's all the same thing,
Like it's all pigment, all the powders or pigments in
(02:52):
eyeshadow and blush. You can use blush's eyeshadow. You can
use eyeshadow as blush. You can use eyeshadow as highlighter
as bronze, or you can use lip gloss as blush
and blush as lip glass and eyeshadow. And who's marketing
these lines the best? Not that there aren't some things
that are better, not that there aren't candidates that are better,
not that there aren't products that are better overall in
(03:12):
the world. But to have a massive marketing budget gives
you a leg up or to be a better marketer.
You know, to be a better marketer gives you a
leg up to be more charismatic, gives you a leg
up to be thought of as trusted and honest, gives
you a leg up, because when you're selling something, then
people will believe you, you know, and some people are
(03:34):
better salespeople than others. You know. I've seen Obama speak,
I've seen Trump speak, I've seen Hillary speak. I had
Hillary on the podcast. I once saw her speak at ironically,
Harvey Weinstein's house. There were like fifty people there and
I saw her speak. Most of the people were celebrities,
and it was very boring, you know. And I'm not
saying that I don't like Hillary, and I'm not saying
(03:55):
she hasn't done amazing things. It wasn't great on my podcast,
and is you know, so accomplished. It felt a little
bit like a science teacher. And I thought to myself, Wow,
charisma is so important, Like look at Bill Clinton, the
charisma that he had. Look at JFK, you know, the charisma.
And so then you're dealing with like who's more charismatic,
who's more teleigenic. There are so many things to think about,
(04:16):
and it's hard for us to know why we're buying
a product, and it's hard for us to know why
we're voting for someone. You know, my daughter has opinions
about candidates based on where she goes to school, who
(04:37):
she's talking to, what she's read in the news, the
bigger headline. It's very confusing, you know. I mean when
Trump was running the first time, I was on a
panel as I think a New York Times panel for
like like ad week or something, and there was somebody
there from the New York Times. And this is when
no one thought that Trump was going to win, and
I said, I think he's got a shot because he's
(04:58):
producing the greatest reality show, free reality show. People could
not look away and the media had to keep reporting
on it, and I said it. I remember saying this.
It was during a time when you know, I go
through all the channels and I end up watching SpongeBob
because it's so confusing and there's so much information. So
whoever's the most disruptive is what you're going to watch.
You know, people watch train wreck television, people watch actual
(05:20):
train wrecks, People watch car Rex why because they can't
stop looking. So if you don't know much about another
candidate and one is getting your attention more for certain reasons,
then you're gonna do that. And it may be Kamala
because she's a woman, and maybe because she's a black woman.
It may because it's an amazing story. It maybe because
she's the best candidate. Maybe because Trump is more you know, disruptive,
(05:41):
and seems like that is means he's more you know,
telling the truth because he's not playing by like the
polished perfect rules. Or maybe you just you think he's
better for your wallet, or she's better for your body,
or she's better for gay rights. It's a very confusing time,
and I would say you have to try to clear
the clutter. Try to clear the clutter too, when you're
(06:01):
buying products and when you're consuming media. It is a
scary time. The reason that bars now hire bartenders who
have big social media followings is because they have influence.
They have influence. People are going to come into the
bar to buy drinks from the one who has more followers.
That's also scary. It's not so scary in a bar,
(06:23):
but it's scary because like people who have influence move markets.
I sell product. Thank god, I'm honest about it. Thank God,
I'm honest to buy my chicken salad and the lip cluss,
and so much so that the other day I raved
about the best lip gluss I ever tried, and it
was actually a blush. I didn't even know it. The
people knew. The people in the comments told it to me.
I mean, if I were working with Lorel on that post,
(06:44):
they wouldn't have let me post a product as something else.
But I just experienced it as a lip product. So
that's what I said. Point being, I move a lot
of product, millions of dollars of product, just be myself
and just trying something and not caring whether I'm saying
Chanel sucks or doors this or whatever. I don't give
a shit because no one's paying my rent and no
one has anything I want. But it's scary if even
(07:08):
charity people don't realize. People think that because it seems
like someone's doing good during a time of crisis, that
they just go and donate money. And I have specific
examples in my mind off celebrities it posted links went up,
started talking because they wanted to be part of the solution,
and they're sending money to the wrong place. They get
jammed up. It's almost illegal. They don't know where the
money's going. There's a third party involved between them and
(07:31):
the actual charity. And I find out for my partners
that the person that is actually in the charity doesn't
even specialize in doing what they're saying that it's going
to do. Because when it's a time of crisis, a
time of relief, a time where people are in panic,
people aren't paying attention. When I had to bring thirteen
million dollars of hazmat suits to Cuomo in Albany, I
(07:52):
did it in days. You have to be a certain
type of fucking animal to do that. And we had
to vet AID and inspect it. There's a lot of counterfeit.
AID almost at our ass handed to it. I almost
lost the thirteen million dollars. I mean, it is scary
shit because people were trying to scam us, and people
in different states at different governments were getting scammed because
it's too fast. It's moving too fast. And it's the
(08:13):
same thing with politics. People are just saying whatever they
need to say, doing whatever they need to do. How
are you going to be educated to decide and realize
what you want and do? You only just vote party
because that's what your whole family's done, that's what you're
supposed to do. You just blindly walk in and just
you know, check a box because of is it red
or blue? And so I just think that it's a
time to try to clear the noise, get educated, don't
(08:37):
believe the hype, don't believe marketing, think about what you
truly need and want for yourself and for others. You know,
it's a time to think about yourself and for others.
I think it's very confusing. I think it's very complicated.
And I also don't think I've ever heard of any
politician that hasn't lied, that hasn't switched, hasn't flip flopped,
that hasn't had to say something different because they didn't
(08:59):
realize what it meant the first time, or now they're
on another side, or now they have another platform and
now it's not popular. I mean, who would want the job?
Who would want the goddamn job? Because it's so toxic.
Who would want the job? I've spoken to more Cuban
about it, you know what I mean, Like he would
be actually excellent at the job, but what would his
(09:20):
family want? That? Do you want to put your family
through that? There's no upside. So the debate, the reason
I want to talk about the debate is because people
didn't think Kamala could stick the landing. They didn't think
(09:42):
she could stick the landing because they call it her
word salad and her laugh and she can be a
little hokey and like, you know, a little cringe sometimes,
and so people didn't think she'd stick the landing, and
she surprised people. And people can say whatever they want,
and it doesn't matter who you're voting for as it
pertains to the debate, But Kamala did a better job
because he took the bait the ego, and the man
(10:04):
took the bait from you know, of the woman, and
you saw it happen. You saw it with the truth
about cats and dogs. You saw it a couple of times.
And it's not about who you're voting for. But if
you are someone who publicly speaks or debates or goes
in to try to get a job or a promotion
or something, I just want you to know that the
(10:24):
game moves quickly. So the debate reminds me of reality television,
because on reality television, the game is moving quickly, and
once you've said something, you're still in your head about
what you've already said, but you're onto the next thing.
You're on to the next point, the next conversation. The
cameras are still rolling you can't say stop, I want
to do over. You can't get in your head and
stay stuck in the last thing, because otherwise you'll get
(10:44):
you'll get stumped on the next thing. And like I said,
the game is moving very quickly, and you got to
get out of your head and you have to not
take the bait. It's so tempting because people in court
rooms and people in debates drop bread crumb so you'll
pick them up, so you'll follow them. And I've seen it,
and it's not always in a very obvious way. It's
(11:06):
not always in a very obvious way. And I call
them side shows. My lawyers said that I was the
best person they've ever had on the stand that wasn't
a paid professional, that didn't do this for a living.
And it might be because, I mean, in high school
I was good at debate. I've always been a good
public speaker. I was good at it on the Housewives,
(11:27):
and maybe it's a honed skill. I never ever ask
for anything in advance when I do any type of
talk show. I've never asked for the questions once. I
don't want to know them. I want it to be natural,
I want it to be fresh. If I do a
speaking engagement. I want to just like listen to the
person's you know, and answer the question. Presumably why I
did well in the Lifetime movie because I learned to
memorize lines, but in the moment, you memorize them with
(11:49):
no punctuation, with no preconceived notion, without the way you
think the lines are supposed to be delivered, so when
the person opposite you delivers them, you can honestly answer.
So I think that in court people go off on
these side shows, and the debate is the same thing.
Someone asks you something and now you're off to the
races because you want to catch every little thing. You
(12:10):
want to plug every little hole, instead of staying the course,
not trying to get rogue, not trying to hit a
home run, just trying to be thorough. So she did
a great job. But you can learn a lot from
a debate, and I would say taking debate, even in
normal like just arguments, what happens is often it's not
(12:31):
the message, it's the messenger, and it's the messaging. So
let's say you're in a fight with someone, even your husband.
You're in a fight with your husband, a girlfriend, someone
at school. You know, the principal, the teacher that did
something that you didn't like with your kid, the coach.
I just had to talk with my daughter's coach, like,
you know, it's the delivery. How are you going to
deliver this? And if you go low, and if you
(12:51):
start taking bait, and if you start going off on
the side, your message may never be received. You may
have the best message, but if you go off on
a side show and on a tangent and on a
bait take, then your message won't be heard. So you
gotta you know, cooler minds prevail. It's not that easy.
And the thing about things like talk shows and debates
and courtrooms is television makes them look easy, and even
(13:15):
reality TV. It's not easy when you're in the moment
and the game is moving quickly. It's not easy when
you're telling a speech and you're dying on the vine.
It's not easy when you're doing stand up and you're
shitting the bed and you still have to keep going.
You can't get in your head. You got to be calm, cool, collected,
Take a deep breath, keep calm, and carry on.
So I'm a little behind the eight ball on the debate.
And I talked recently about how people can't have a
different opinion in twenty twenty four. Someone voting for Kamala
can't be at the same tables. Some are voting for
Trump in twenty twenty four. And when I was a kid,
it wasn't like that, And so people theoretically now can't
(00:34):
be married who are voting for different candidates. And I
was talking to my friend Sarah, who told me she
was voting with her body, and another friend said they're
voting with their wallet. And I've talked about how it's
a luxury to be able to have different issues on
someone's platform that are the reason you're voting for them,
(00:55):
meaning like if you donate to authritis because you know
someone who is athritis, or someone in your family does,
or cancer or things like that, it's something that is
near and dear to you. It's important to you, it's
close to your heart, and people vote in that way. Also,
like people vote because of their wallet, because of their body,
because they want to be married, and they're gay, because
of their families in the military, whatever their reason is.
(01:18):
There are many people who don't really have the luxury
of picking issues. They are just they are starving. They're
literally starving, and they just want to vote to be
able to possibly survive, or to pay their rent, or
to eat. And that I gave this advice that I
think that people should really do two things at the
same time. You're kind of playing chess and checkers at
the same time. You're deciding what you want to do
(01:41):
based on your issues and your life because you're one
person with the power of one vote, but also the
chest of it is and also what's best for the
whole country, because if your body's in check but you're
going to be bombed and go to war, then what
does that mean You don't have a body necessarily. So
it's very confusing, and we're fed so much information from
(02:04):
different news outlets. If you're on CNN, people are rolling
their eyes at Trump. If you're on Fox, people are
laughing at Kamala. And it wasn't this, it wasn't this
glaring when we were kids, where it was like, I mean,
I you know, I remember watching Chris Cuomo and Don
Lemon like like laughing at you know, and then on
the other side, you know, people on Fox laughing at Kamala,
(02:30):
Like it's just it's just different than it used to be.
So it's harder for the average person to make their
own decisions because we also are a product of what
we're being fed by the machine. So who has the
better machine, meaning they're in beauty, for example, I talk
about beauty all the time, and it's all the same thing,
Like it's all pigment, all the powders or pigments in
(02:52):
eyeshadow and blush. You can use blush's eyeshadow. You can
use eyeshadow as blush. You can use eyeshadow as highlighter
as bronze, or you can use lip gloss as blush
and blush as lip glass and eyeshadow. And who's marketing
these lines the best? Not that there aren't some things
that are better, not that there aren't candidates that are better,
not that there aren't products that are better overall in
(03:12):
the world. But to have a massive marketing budget gives
you a leg up or to be a better marketer.
You know, to be a better marketer gives you a
leg up to be more charismatic, gives you a leg
up to be thought of as trusted and honest, gives
you a leg up, because when you're selling something, then
people will believe you, you know, and some people are
(03:34):
better salespeople than others. You know. I've seen Obama speak,
I've seen Trump speak, I've seen Hillary speak. I had
Hillary on the podcast. I once saw her speak at ironically,
Harvey Weinstein's house. There were like fifty people there and
I saw her speak. Most of the people were celebrities,
and it was very boring, you know. And I'm not
saying that I don't like Hillary, and I'm not saying
(03:55):
she hasn't done amazing things. It wasn't great on my podcast,
and is you know, so accomplished. It felt a little
bit like a science teacher. And I thought to myself, Wow,
charisma is so important, Like look at Bill Clinton, the
charisma that he had. Look at JFK, you know, the charisma.
And so then you're dealing with like who's more charismatic,
who's more teleigenic. There are so many things to think about,
(04:16):
and it's hard for us to know why we're buying
a product, and it's hard for us to know why
we're voting for someone. You know, my daughter has opinions
about candidates based on where she goes to school, who
(04:37):
she's talking to, what she's read in the news, the
bigger headline. It's very confusing, you know. I mean when
Trump was running the first time, I was on a
panel as I think a New York Times panel for
like like ad week or something, and there was somebody
there from the New York Times. And this is when
no one thought that Trump was going to win, and
I said, I think he's got a shot because he's
(04:58):
producing the greatest reality show, free reality show. People could
not look away and the media had to keep reporting
on it, and I said it. I remember saying this.
It was during a time when you know, I go
through all the channels and I end up watching SpongeBob
because it's so confusing and there's so much information. So
whoever's the most disruptive is what you're going to watch.
You know, people watch train wreck television, people watch actual
(05:20):
train wrecks, People watch car Rex why because they can't
stop looking. So if you don't know much about another
candidate and one is getting your attention more for certain reasons,
then you're gonna do that. And it may be Kamala
because she's a woman, and maybe because she's a black woman.
It may because it's an amazing story. It maybe because
she's the best candidate. Maybe because Trump is more you know, disruptive,
(05:41):
and seems like that is means he's more you know,
telling the truth because he's not playing by like the
polished perfect rules. Or maybe you just you think he's
better for your wallet, or she's better for your body,
or she's better for gay rights. It's a very confusing time,
and I would say you have to try to clear
the clutter. Try to clear the clutter too, when you're
(06:01):
buying products and when you're consuming media. It is a
scary time. The reason that bars now hire bartenders who
have big social media followings is because they have influence.
They have influence. People are going to come into the
bar to buy drinks from the one who has more followers.
That's also scary. It's not so scary in a bar,
(06:23):
but it's scary because like people who have influence move markets.
I sell product. Thank god, I'm honest about it. Thank God,
I'm honest to buy my chicken salad and the lip cluss,
and so much so that the other day I raved
about the best lip gluss I ever tried, and it
was actually a blush. I didn't even know it. The
people knew. The people in the comments told it to me.
I mean, if I were working with Lorel on that post,
(06:44):
they wouldn't have let me post a product as something else.
But I just experienced it as a lip product. So
that's what I said. Point being, I move a lot
of product, millions of dollars of product, just be myself
and just trying something and not caring whether I'm saying
Chanel sucks or doors this or whatever. I don't give
a shit because no one's paying my rent and no
one has anything I want. But it's scary if even
(07:08):
charity people don't realize. People think that because it seems
like someone's doing good during a time of crisis, that
they just go and donate money. And I have specific
examples in my mind off celebrities it posted links went up,
started talking because they wanted to be part of the solution,
and they're sending money to the wrong place. They get
jammed up. It's almost illegal. They don't know where the
money's going. There's a third party involved between them and
(07:31):
the actual charity. And I find out for my partners
that the person that is actually in the charity doesn't
even specialize in doing what they're saying that it's going
to do. Because when it's a time of crisis, a
time of relief, a time where people are in panic,
people aren't paying attention. When I had to bring thirteen
million dollars of hazmat suits to Cuomo in Albany, I
(07:52):
did it in days. You have to be a certain
type of fucking animal to do that. And we had
to vet AID and inspect it. There's a lot of counterfeit.
AID almost at our ass handed to it. I almost
lost the thirteen million dollars. I mean, it is scary
shit because people were trying to scam us, and people
in different states at different governments were getting scammed because
it's too fast. It's moving too fast. And it's the
(08:13):
same thing with politics. People are just saying whatever they
need to say, doing whatever they need to do. How
are you going to be educated to decide and realize
what you want and do? You only just vote party
because that's what your whole family's done, that's what you're
supposed to do. You just blindly walk in and just
you know, check a box because of is it red
or blue? And so I just think that it's a
time to try to clear the noise, get educated, don't
(08:37):
believe the hype, don't believe marketing, think about what you
truly need and want for yourself and for others. You know,
it's a time to think about yourself and for others.
I think it's very confusing. I think it's very complicated.
And I also don't think I've ever heard of any
politician that hasn't lied, that hasn't switched, hasn't flip flopped,
that hasn't had to say something different because they didn't
(08:59):
realize what it meant the first time, or now they're
on another side, or now they have another platform and
now it's not popular. I mean, who would want the job?
Who would want the goddamn job? Because it's so toxic.
Who would want the job? I've spoken to more Cuban
about it, you know what I mean, Like he would
be actually excellent at the job, but what would his
(09:20):
family want? That? Do you want to put your family
through that? There's no upside. So the debate, the reason
I want to talk about the debate is because people
didn't think Kamala could stick the landing. They didn't think
(09:42):
she could stick the landing because they call it her
word salad and her laugh and she can be a
little hokey and like, you know, a little cringe sometimes,
and so people didn't think she'd stick the landing, and
she surprised people. And people can say whatever they want,
and it doesn't matter who you're voting for as it
pertains to the debate, But Kamala did a better job
because he took the bait the ego, and the man
(10:04):
took the bait from you know, of the woman, and
you saw it happen. You saw it with the truth
about cats and dogs. You saw it a couple of times.
And it's not about who you're voting for. But if
you are someone who publicly speaks or debates or goes
in to try to get a job or a promotion
or something, I just want you to know that the
(10:24):
game moves quickly. So the debate reminds me of reality television,
because on reality television, the game is moving quickly, and
once you've said something, you're still in your head about
what you've already said, but you're onto the next thing.
You're on to the next point, the next conversation. The
cameras are still rolling you can't say stop, I want
to do over. You can't get in your head and
stay stuck in the last thing, because otherwise you'll get
(10:44):
you'll get stumped on the next thing. And like I said,
the game is moving very quickly, and you got to
get out of your head and you have to not
take the bait. It's so tempting because people in court
rooms and people in debates drop bread crumb so you'll
pick them up, so you'll follow them. And I've seen it,
and it's not always in a very obvious way. It's
(11:06):
not always in a very obvious way. And I call
them side shows. My lawyers said that I was the
best person they've ever had on the stand that wasn't
a paid professional, that didn't do this for a living.
And it might be because, I mean, in high school
I was good at debate. I've always been a good
public speaker. I was good at it on the Housewives,
(11:27):
and maybe it's a honed skill. I never ever ask
for anything in advance when I do any type of
talk show. I've never asked for the questions once. I
don't want to know them. I want it to be natural,
I want it to be fresh. If I do a
speaking engagement. I want to just like listen to the
person's you know, and answer the question. Presumably why I
did well in the Lifetime movie because I learned to
memorize lines, but in the moment, you memorize them with
(11:49):
no punctuation, with no preconceived notion, without the way you
think the lines are supposed to be delivered, so when
the person opposite you delivers them, you can honestly answer.
So I think that in court people go off on
these side shows, and the debate is the same thing.
Someone asks you something and now you're off to the
races because you want to catch every little thing. You
(12:10):
want to plug every little hole, instead of staying the course,
not trying to get rogue, not trying to hit a
home run, just trying to be thorough. So she did
a great job. But you can learn a lot from
a debate, and I would say taking debate, even in
normal like just arguments, what happens is often it's not
(12:31):
the message, it's the messenger, and it's the messaging. So
let's say you're in a fight with someone, even your husband.
You're in a fight with your husband, a girlfriend, someone
at school. You know, the principal, the teacher that did
something that you didn't like with your kid, the coach.
I just had to talk with my daughter's coach, like,
you know, it's the delivery. How are you going to
deliver this? And if you go low, and if you
(12:51):
start taking bait, and if you start going off on
the side, your message may never be received. You may
have the best message, but if you go off on
a side show and on a tangent and on a
bait take, then your message won't be heard. So you
gotta you know, cooler minds prevail. It's not that easy.
And the thing about things like talk shows and debates
and courtrooms is television makes them look easy, and even
(13:15):
reality TV. It's not easy when you're in the moment
and the game is moving quickly. It's not easy when
you're telling a speech and you're dying on the vine.
It's not easy when you're doing stand up and you're
shitting the bed and you still have to keep going.
You can't get in your head. You got to be calm, cool, collected,
Take a deep breath, keep calm, and carry on.
Host
Bethenny Frankel
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