September 7, 2021 • 49 mins
On investing in yourself and not mixing business and family.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:13):
I was in a very cool place that had like
not just cold brew, but like cold brew elevated coffee
and very conscientious and locally sourced and sustainable and organic
and deep tissue massage kale type coffee. It just was
(00:35):
a very current Williamsburg type coffee place that had oh milk,
mcadamia nut milk, brought cash you milk, I'm short, pistachio milk,
sesameseed milk. And you know there's not like hazel nut milk,
brazil nut milk. There's not a nut milk on the
(00:56):
planet Earth that was not at this place. And you
waited a really long time, like Paul and I were
like are we waiting for our car to be detailed?
Like it was a long time to get the coffee.
Were standing outside. I'm such a Karen, may please speak
to please speak to the manager, like the logical plaints.
So anyway, we're in the parking lone and we were
(01:17):
just like, this is a lot, this is taking a
long time, and it's just it's not setting the place
up for success in my mind, because if it was
that the best coffee I've ever had, you know, it's
gonna be a whole thing and I could do a
separate brand on coffee just in general, because I just
find that coffee anyway, ice coffee is like the holy grail,
Like even at Starbucks, who can duplicate drinks like McDonald's
(01:39):
can duplicate cheeseburgers, or Nobuo can duplicate black cotton miso
sauce or rock shrimp um for the tiniest infantestinal population
in the world that have had those two items. But McDonald's, like,
it's always duplicated unless it's in France and there's mustard
on the burger. And Starbucks does a great job of
certain drinks of duplication. But ice coffee, no matter where
(02:01):
you go, ice coffee tastes like watered down garbage. It
just you can't get it right. It's either too strong
and it doesn't have that like milky look, or it
has that milky look and it tastes like beige ice water.
It's just gross. So anyway, it's just it's already setting
itself up for failure because you just ce coffee, I
just find cannot be ordered out. It's just not great.
(02:22):
You have to do it yourself and your own way
at home. So but we got a drink we got.
I think we got a nice drink because we're self
loathing massa kiss and I said, do do you have
a straw? Because I mean, I know, I think we're
now in the land of paper straws. I don't know
what they're doing in Massachusetts, but we're in the I
think the whole world is a paper straw world. Now,
once in a while you get like a little plastic
straw that shows up, which is like one chocolate sprinkle
(02:45):
in the rainbow box, and just like I just got
a plastic straw. I'm so excited because it's like a
throwback to the plastic straw world, because that's of course,
we have plastic credit cards, plastic cars, plastic tits, plastic surgery.
But at Starbucks and everywhere else, we are drawing a
line in our plastic cup. We're putting a paper straw
(03:05):
in there, which I've talked about before. It's very important.
So I'm leaving and I go up to get my
coffee and I said, hey, do you have a straw?
Which I didn't know is like you're not allowed to
ask anymore, like even paper straws. That's probably they've been
canceled too. So I said, do you have a straw? Um? No,
but we do have a sip cup, not even that.
She didn't even say it that way. She goes, uh, no,
we have a sip cup, which was like code for
(03:29):
you eighties asshole. You should fucking know that you don't.
We don't straw So I just didn't know that we're
not strawing at all anymore. And I know it does
give your wrinkles, and people with botox are like strawing
sideways because they can't move their mouth, and people who
have wrinkles like me are just getting more wrinkles because
we're strong, and it's not good for your beauty too,
(03:50):
straw But I'm a straw er and I just don't
feel that things are taste the same with or without straws.
So that was the first moment that I had, like, oh, okay,
I've just been schooled. Um I was not coffee straw woke.
And then I was at a restaurant that is like
(04:10):
an amazing restaurant and super respected and everyone was talking
about it and it's the greatest restaurant and it's the
best restaurant. It's impossible to get a reservation and two
years from Thursday. We made a reservation pre pandemic to
go now, hoping there'd be no pandemic, you know, post
Ppe scandal that I went through, you know, just like
we planned four years ago for this reservation. So we
(04:32):
sat down and um, we ordered different types of food,
and I came I grew up in the time, back
in my day, we got the food together. Like sushi
doesn't count necessarily because you get roles at a time.
But back in my day, my generation, if two people
ordered an appetizer that came at the same time, and
if you ordered an entree that the bat came at
(04:52):
the same time, unless it's family style and it's coming
for everybody, and then they've asked you if you've dined
with them before, and gave you the whole thing. So, um,
I got like three different things before Paul got his cheeseburger.
I literally got a pasta, I got a starter, I
got shshido peppers, like a whole bunch of things. And
I felt sort of selfish, like I felt like I
(05:14):
was pleasuring myself in bed before I even thinking about Paul.
So he got his later. His was really taking a
long time. I guess it's a different person doing it.
It's a different process. So I said, hey, do you know,
do you know where his his burgers? And I said, um,
things come out when they're ready here like so I don't, okay,
(05:34):
so that we're doing that to now. We don't do
straws and we don't do timing and meals anymore. You
could get your crambolay dessert when I get my appetizer
shrimp cocktail. That's just another thing that we're doing now.
So that's, you know, part of passagg dining in. Yeah, No,
we do things differently here. We do it differently here.
(05:55):
We food comes out as we decide whereas we're ready,
and we don't straw We sip cup ladies and gentlemen.
I mean usually I throw to the audience, and I
will do that today. But you may come here with
a straight jacket and take me away for this ridiculous rant.
So it's whatever you want to talk about, whatever you
(06:17):
want to say, whatever you think, if you understand what
I'm talking about. But I just want to know A.
Our straws canceled altogether, and B is getting food at
the same time as the other person you're dining with.
Also canceled. Is that over to? My guest today is
(06:38):
Kim Gold fashion and home design executive. She has founded
many successful brands, but is well known for co founding
the famous Dunham brand, True Religion, which she sold back
in two thousand thirteen for over eight hundred million dollars
before it was cool to be an almost billionaire. She's
such an inspiration as an entrepreneur and it is her
(07:00):
determination that brought her success. Today we talk grassroots marketing,
having to do things yourself and being a boss without fear.
I hope you enjoy it. So you're from Malibu, like
originally you were born and you lived in Malibi as
(07:21):
a child. Yes, raised in Malibu. Wow, that's so interesting.
I wonder what was that like? Amazing back then it
was beautiful, it was quiet, it was there were no celebrities.
It was amazing. Yeah, point doom. You're a triplet. I'm
an identical triplet. You're an identical triplet. So that first
(07:44):
of all, it's rare to be a triplet, but to
be identical triplet is unheard of. I mean I've never
heard of. I don't know any other identical triplets. I mean,
what's interesting about Uh, my mom didn't even know she
was having triplets. I mean back in the day, I'm
fifty five, they didn't even have ultrasounds. So they did
an X ray and found that she was having triplets.
(08:05):
As a just a normal person, not with taking anything
to try to have kids. This is just a normal
person because now you can pick your kids, you know,
like how long, how big you can pick someone's shoe size.
Now I call her shoes eye probably probably they're signed.
So then you were just a luck of a draw
lottery identical triplet. Wow, yeah, id fascinating. So what were
(08:29):
your parents like? So, but you're the only you only
have two siblings, meaning they didn't have before. No, no, no,
I have five brothers. Holy like both my father's stepfather,
real father, both attorneys, both went to Berkeley. My mom
was a psychologist recently passed, and my stepmom does cancer
research at Cedars. So I come from a very you
(08:54):
know that type of family, academic, very academic. And when
Mark and I before we got married, Mark Brenan and
I my my dad who's an attorney, my stepmom, who
you know, was in the medical field. So said, you
and Mark will never do well or become successful if
you don't have uh an education in whatever it was. Right, Hello,
(09:20):
I sold a company for close to a billion fucking balls.
Is one of the biggest producers of our time. I know. Wow,
that's amazing. Well, that's a good. So that for people
listening is you have to go with your own gut
and not everybody else knows the path that you're going
to chart, including yourself. But you know, people can really
stop other people down and hinder energy and drive and
(09:42):
crush spirits. You know, people don't dream as big as
as possibly you do. And maybe you just had different
sites for yourself, both of you. Well for sure, I mean,
I know being an identical triplet was a huge part
of me figuring out how to be an individ jewel, Right,
That's what I was wondering. Yeah, And I think because
(10:04):
my sisters and I are like living each other's underwear basically, uh,
they're very successful, but I am and other. The word
entrepreneur gets thrown around a lot. It really does, and
I don't know why it bothers me, But so does
the word brand, which is annoying. Okay, the word brand,
like what that just started ten years ago and or
(10:26):
eight years ago, seven years ago, and now everybody my
personal brand, my lifestyle brand. I'm a brand, you're a brand?
What's your brand? Not everybody has a brand? No, I
mean you could say that, you know, I say, Marlin
is my husband. We're not legally married. But oh what
is how? How are you? What's your brand with you
and Marlin? What? What's your brand? Relationship brand? My relationship brand? Mean,
(10:51):
you know the relationship couple things. But it's interesting, Bethan,
he is that you and I And listen to your podcast.
I'm not a big podcast listener, but I really listen
to yours because we have so much in common. Well,
I read some of the things about you never have
big plans and strategies for what you're going to do.
You do what you love. If it's not fun, you
(11:12):
don't like doing it anymore than you stopped doing it.
So I get that. I get that, and people who said,
you know people who say, do what you love and
you'll be good at it. It's just a basic principle. Uh.
And then some people say that's bullshit. You have to,
you know, go with focus groups and you need data,
and we're not those people. So when did you start
to work. When did you get this fire inside of
(11:34):
you that says I want to work? Because I um
know Mark Garnette. We uh did a show together. We
were partners. I was on The Apprentice. If that didn't
mean I knew him, because I didn't. I was on
Shark Tank. So I read Tank. You're really good. Oh,
thank you. So I've read Mark Burnette's book and it's
I'm reading through some paperwork on you. You're the first
(11:56):
person that's sort of entertainment or you know, industry adjacent
and a fashion person that sold their company twenty years
ago for almost a billion dollars that I had never
heard of, which is fascinating. But I don't know everything
about everything. But I mean a lot of people who
are listening will not have heard of you, and they're
gonna be shocked when I say, twenty years ago you
sold your company for almost a billion dollars. That would
be a massive deal now, and we'll get into it.
(12:17):
But Mark Burnette's book talked about selling T shirts in Venice.
So when I'm reading the beginning of your bio, I'm
reading that you were selling T shirts in Venice. So
the first thing I thought to myself is Oh wait,
that's what Mark Burnette did five minutes later? Did I
read like just a little blurb about him? And I
didn't even realize you guys were married, so you could
you can take it away now about work and T
shirts and all that. I just did not know that
(12:40):
Mark and I are still friends. Amazing and uh I
have had many discussions with him about why you've lied
about that on Venice Beach, the T shirt thing. He
wasn't selling T shirts. It was my business. Oh but
wasn't he selling T shirts with you after a while? Yeah,
(13:00):
got it? Okay, So you guys are good friends, So
isn't it gonna be annoyed that we're discuss I mean,
I'm not like I didn't even know this until two
couple of hours ago, that you guys were married. And
literally when I saw the T shirt thing, I thought, oh,
that's so funny. They have it in common. I didn't
even know you knew each other. So so this is
what happens when different people write books. So he wrote
a book saying he was selling T shirts, which is
(13:22):
true because he was selling T shirts and it was
your business. But he did he say it was his business? No,
I mean, he claims it was this business, but it wasn't.
It was my business. He was, you know, working um
in a company in a cubicle, and I said, come
work with me. I always say, for example, the Winkelvoss Twins.
(13:44):
I've only seen what I've seen in movies, right, So
let's pretend that Mark Zuckerberg did steal their idea. No
matter what Mark Zuckerberg executed and whoever those guys are,
I don't know anything about them, and they're wealthy on
their own right, they couldn't have done what he did.
So I feel that way. So you sold your company
for almost a billion dollars, it speaks for itself. Uh.
But Mark has been utterly influential in his space that
(14:08):
he's crazy. I mean, you know what I mean, to
be that influential in the reality TV spece. So it's
not like now he made all his money in the
garment industry. It would drive you crazy. It's not like
where Kim Kardashian was organizing Paris's closets, and they're both
sort of famous in the same sort of way, doing
the same sort of thing. That could be maddening to
someone like Paris because Kim's Kardashian went to the Paris
Hilton School of Fame and sort of just became more
(14:31):
successful than the teacher in the class. But at least
you're in different industries. In my opinion, thank god for
both of you, because you're he you both succeeded into
totally different worlds. Correct. Yeah. And I have a lot
of respect from Mark. A friend of mine men into
him who works for me the other day and he goes,
please tell Kimberly hello. I can text him right now
and say, hey, how's it going. We have a lot
(14:52):
of respect for each other. All I'm saying is if
you do something with somebody, say that I think you're
saying it. It's not that you care. If he said
we were doing it together, you were left out of
the story. That's what you're saying. That's all I care about.
Oh yeah, and you have the receipts. I get it. Okay,
So you're you're saying, and now here you are with
on my podcast and you have your own book, etcetera.
(15:14):
You just wanted to be part of the story because
you were in the past. Maybe it was out of
respect to his wife or something. But in the facts
are the facts. And I fully get what you're saying.
I get what you're saying. I got it. Now got it? Well,
we were married, I mean Mark and I were married,
So I mean again, we're we're friends. I have a
lot of respect from Mark. We have a lot of
respect for each other. He has done incredible things, and
(15:38):
along the way, a lot of people have been a
part of his success. I believe in it's a team
effort and the people who help you along the way
are the people that should also get those accolades. So
(15:59):
what happened in the beginning, So you tell me how
this all happens. You start a business, you get into
the apparel space. How I want to hear the stories
of people at home, can you know, figure out a
way to do this for themselves? Yeah? I mean, um,
I was in college getting a business degree. I was bored.
I left, I went downtown. I started knocking on doors,
(16:20):
getting damages and you know, irregulars and borrow from my peach.
She means damaged goods. But just like a tiny little thing,
it's not cannot be sal so for retail price, but
someone else like us might like it just the same,
but at a significant discount. Right, kind of like you
know what you were doing at supermarkets and you know, hustling,
and so I ended up getting about five different swap
(16:44):
meets on a weekend. One of my sisters worked for
me at the time. So there's rose Bowl, there's venice
speed up, There's was a big deal back then. That
was that big. Every third Sunday. That swat meet in
Pasadena was another level. So much fun. And yeah, we
were doing I was doing about fifty thousand dollars a
(17:06):
month in cash and a getting my real estate license
at the same time. Um, and you know, ended up
buying my first place in Malibu, a townhouse with that money. Wow,
bought a building prior to that house. And by the way,
that sounds very like for people listening, it's old school
(17:30):
hard work. That doesn't sound that expensive to start. That
sounds fairly easy. Anybody can go. You know, my daughter
went and bought candy and then to buy to buy
Jordan's and then she went around her neighborhood. You about
seven dollars with a candy and she sold for nine dollars, Like, okay,
do you know what I'm saying? She makes jewels, she
makes necklaces. I've seen them out and I've seen them
fifty dollars in the Hampton stores. So she makes them,
(17:51):
she could sell them. So sometimes things don't have to
be that complicated. You had an idea that damaged goods
that would still be uh interesting to people like myself.
I don't care if it has a little tiny pull
on it. And then you went and sold it and
you just took the cash and you bought a place
like it was very basic. You just were dustling and
working really hard and making connections. I assume. I think
(18:11):
for me, um work is the key. Hustling, meeting people,
not taking no for an answer. Uh, you know that's
my motto, you know, I'm I'm I'm I'm looking for
the yes right. And And the building that I was
living with we were renting with Mark. I ended up
(18:36):
buying it with this money that I made. The guy
who we bought it from wanted to buy it back,
and I said, I'll buy it, so I'll sell it
back to you like two months later for seventy five dollars.
So we made seventy five thou dollars. I made seventy
five thou dollars literally two months after I bought that place.
(18:57):
So you just accident you started in selling T shirts
and then accidentally got a taste of real estate. I've
been I've been flipping forever. I do that too, and
I love it and I get why you love it.
It's having a vision. So you're a person with vision,
You just have an idea. You just see the space
that someone else doesn't see, and you drive right through it.
(19:17):
So how did you get into genes? Which I'm in
jeans too, and it's a very you know, I'm I
just did a deal with Gerard from you know, seven Jeans.
But that's a tough business for an even listening like
that is a tough business. Margins, competition, design male designers,
male owners. You know, not that many women in the space.
(19:38):
The top ten jeans brands run by men for decades.
So tell me how you get into jeans? How you
break through in jeans? Well, I think the fashion business
is cut throat in whatever business whatever, nits or whatever.
But I had three companies before true Religion. Okay, so
when I got into jens um I I'm a g girl.
(20:00):
I'm a Levi girl. This is what I did, jeans
and T shirts and whatever. But I wanted to make
something that was more fashion right, nobody was doing it.
I like to go after something that I want to wear,
but I can't find it. Same same annoys me to have. Yeah,
I don't like the same things any something, and I'll
(20:23):
just like cut the shame it out of it and redoing. Uh.
But because I've been in the fashion business way before that,
um I and I ended up doing this gene. Actually
I was working for Liz Claiborne Um and I actually
did this brand for Neiman Marcus. Before I started True Religion,
(20:43):
I was doing hippie jeans with Draward with the well
Paul Gaz left that working started True Religion. And the
thing about True Religion is there wasn't a fashion. It
was like what uh, Friday Jean Day was casual. I
wanted to be sexy. I wanted to fit the curvy
girl because skinny girls could wear anything. Really, you know,
(21:07):
skinny girls could anything. Nobody was doing anything for the voluptuous.
That was the time of Seven Jeans and Jay Brandon.
Everything was skinny, skinny, skinny jegging. That was that era. Okay,
got it right, and we started Jay brand before and
I know all those guys, but True religion started exactly
(21:27):
when seven started. But in fairness to you and to
everybody listening, when you got in, you were in a
sea of sharks. Like before that, jeans weren't so in
Like you got in years before it was Big John
and Edwin. Years before that it was Georgash and whenever
you got in the third big round when currently that's
when jeans became fashion. So that's more competitive. Well yeah,
(21:50):
I mean I had a board of directors all met,
you know, and and it was very difficult because I'm
the largest shareholder of a company at the time, and
it was like, this is how we're gonna do it.
I'm a woman, I'm designing this gene, I'm the fit model.
I'm doing this. It was very technical. Um, from the
(22:10):
seams going forward to the to the knee, to the
leg opening, to the front rise to you know the
way the uh when you do a front rise to
the back. It was like eight and a half in
front and twelve and a half in the back to
fit those curvy women. And and we we we discovered
(22:32):
two percent micra wow. Um. But you know my ex
husband Jack, he was he was a fabric salesperson and
when and I said, listen, you know everything about fabric.
Let's do this. And that's how true religion started. So
with your ex husband, was he part of the success?
(22:55):
Is he versus? Is he in good shape financially because
of that as well? Oh my god? Oh yeah, okay,
so you went and I'm ride together. Well, you know,
it was a very nasty divorce, and people go, did
you do well? You said, let me tell you something.
I was the largest shareholder of a company, but I
had a global I did. This is important, Bethany, because
(23:17):
a lot of people who get into nasty divorces. I said,
fuck this. I called in forensic accountants, all my attorneys, everybody,
financial advisor, and I said, you know what, you guys,
this is what I'm doing. I'm not making you millions
of dollars and I want my life back. If I
wanted to stay fighting in a marriage, I'm I'm I'm staying.
(23:38):
I'm gonna fight. So I got millions of millions of
dollars global settlement, tax free, and walk the funk away.
That's what I did. You mean in your divorce or
you're saying it was a global divorce and the company
I took company and walked away at the same time
from everything. You walked away. You took the money from
(23:58):
the deal, you took the suation from you divorce, and
you wiped washed your hands. I had a situation that no,
I've never told anyone, and I'm not gonna mention names
or anything, but I had a situation where when I
came up with the idea for the Skinny Girl, margarity
like the light bulb was um. I wasn't in a relationship.
I was single. I came up with the idea and
(24:20):
I went through that entire idea on television, the crappy logo,
the the formula was in jugs that look like Clorox
bottles before the actual glass came in. I went through.
This was over a year of just the formulation, what
does it taste like? The whole thing. Then I got
into a relationship, and then I got married. The product
(24:41):
launched similar time. Like the product launched, it was marketed
similar time. When I got married and had an agreement,
I never had a value of what Skinny Girl was
worth because it wasn't I didn't know what it was
worth yet. It was like it was an idea, it
was a bottle, it was on TV. I put it
on TV. That was worth millions of was the fact
that I put it on TV, but it didn't have
(25:02):
a tangible value because I hadn't made a dime. I
got divorced, well it took me nine years to get divorced,
but we split up two years later. So right after
I hit the jackpot, I split up. So I had
to go, like you said, with the forensic accountant to
prove that it wasn't worth zero when we got together
and worth all this money after I sold that that
(25:22):
it was worth so much when we got together because
it had been in the bottles, it had been on
the show, it had been at my wedding. I had
the label, I had the logo, had the idea. So
I understand what you're talking about. So cover your bases
in the beginning, people, and prepare to take a trip
to the moon, because you just might actually take one.
And I was absolutely broke, you know, not that many
(25:45):
years ago. So that that's just I don't even know
how we don't know each other. I really, I really don't. Um.
We know a lot of similar people. I have a
Mark Cuban funny story too, a really great story. But
you and I are very very similar in how we
approached things. And and by the way, I had three boys.
(26:07):
I have three kids, right, so I raised them on
my own. If you get into business, okay, and I
come from a family of attorneys, keep your business separate
from your marriage. One percent. It seems so tempting. You've
done it, Stacy's Peter Chips did it. We've all. I
spoke to her. She saw for two hundred sixty million
(26:27):
dollars twenty years ago. Also, we've all done it. I
never had a dime to my name. Then I buy
that apartment that you saw on the show in Tribeca
and had to fight millions of dollars to just keep
something that was my apartment because other skating in that apartment. Right, Yeah,
I'd decided to keep that and and and it was
(26:48):
extremely expensive, and there was some shady stuff that had happened.
But yes, do not mix business with pleasure, no matter
how tempting it might be. All right, but we want
to hear about your business. So Jean's business is intense.
It's the same aime group of people running that whole business.
The way that people pay in the fashion business. It
means you don't get paid for thirty days, so you're
like living on rice, trying to wait to get your
(27:10):
quote unquote piece goods meaning the buttons, the materials to
be able to make your next order. So how are
you surviving in this business just because j Lo is
wearing your jeans? How are you? What are you doing?
How do you know how to do this? Okay? So
what I was doing was working two jobs okay, for
Liz Clayborn and for a company back in the day
(27:31):
called Rampage. I remember Rampage. I used to go there
with Harris and Nikki when I babysitt them. It is
like the forever twenty one and back I was working
for Larry Hansel and working for a company called Laundry
by Shelley Seagull. I remember two jobs. Eight seven in
the morning, tenant night. Jeff was watching the kids. And
(27:51):
when I hear people say, oh, I'm tired, and I
you know, I don't know how to open up my
own business. You know what, do the work? Because you
have to just the bottom line, Yeah, you kill yourself.
So if you're not ready to do that, you're not
ready to have a business. You're not ready for it
to almost kill you and always be on the very edge.
It's not for you, and that's the truth. Does mean
you can't make a lot of money. But to be
an entrepreneur, a real entrepreneur, like you use that word,
(28:14):
you gotta be like hanging by the skin of your
teeth many times. Well, I think entrepreneur, Like I said earlier,
you have to use your own money. If you want
people to ultimately invest in your business, you have to
use your own money and invest in you. If you
use your own money, I agree, skin in the game.
So this business rampage Closed Laundry by Shelley Seagle was
(28:35):
a very successful business. Close hold hippie. I know the
girl close, all all the retail stores closed? So why
are all these businesses closed? What did they do wrong?
What did you do right? My vision is that many
fashion people think their business people. They're creatives that think
their business people and vice versa. I believe the business
(28:55):
people overall should stick to what they're good at. The
creative people should stick to with are good at, and
that's when people get into trouble, and I've seen that
in this business. So what is your opinion about why
all these successful brands with money have shut down. It's
a really good point. And I've listened to you asked
this question quite a bit. I'll tell you this much.
I have a business degree because I'm so creative, not
(29:19):
that I want to run my business. But no one's
going to steal my business if I don't know my business,
if I don't know my cost, if I don't know
what who my demographic is. But no, you're laying I
know what you're really really good at, and have people
on your team that share the same vision. And I
can sit in a meeting and I mean, I'm running
(29:41):
my my business. I always run my businesses, but I
don't want to. I get you don't want to be
in the weeds. You don't want to be in the weeds.
You hate the weeds, but you're always pulled back as
an entrepreneur into the weeds. How do you manage people well?
How do you get out of the weeds? How do
you have smarter people in the room than you? How
do you afford to have the staff that you need
(30:02):
when you don't have money? Not where you are now?
So tell people how you do all of that to
run a business. How do you do it all well?
At the beginning. If you don't have money, you do
it yourself. And that's a great way to learn what
you don't know. Okay, Uh, do not go in business
with the business with with a family member, that's number
(30:22):
one or a husband. Never never never, Um, Like my
assistant is right here next to me and finding um
for me. It's an it's an energy, it's they'll go
over and above. They have integrity, their transparent, they have
good communication. UM. A lot of it is um. There's
(30:46):
no complaining. They'll they'll do what it takes that it's done. Yeah,
I agree, And there aren't that many people these days
like that at all. Oh my god, no, I know
at every level. You can't believe they're working for you.
They've seen what you've done and they know that they
could do what you've done. And I've had every difficult job,
and so you look at people around you and you say,
you gotta pay your dues, man, you gotta pay your dues.
(31:07):
And you know, I think most importantly is I, oh
we I will never ask somebody to do something I
wouldn't do. I say that all the time. So let's
talk about selling the company for the number you got
it seems like a stupid question to ask why you
sold the company. I mean it's very obvious. I mean
that's a crazy number. So whatever, what the hell was
going on there? How much of the company did you own?
(31:28):
Would you own most of it? And were you like
what is going on? I was the second largest shareholder
of the company. And who was first? Someone who gave
you money gave it? Was a backer? Jeff and I
my ex husband. I started this company my ex husband.
Everything we had, we had three kids, everything on credit cards.
We were homeless. People don't even know. We were two
(31:50):
hundred fifty dollars and fucking debt with three kids living
in a hotel Okay, So we took our credit cards.
We made these. We made men's first, because you know,
women will wear men's ge men won't wear women's gene.
So we started with men's, started running around meeting people
where the geese and girls. Who was like the first
(32:12):
boyfriend gene um And it happened very quickly, I have
to say, because there was nothing out there like that.
As soon as Fergie talks about it in a song,
it's like, holy shit. She said true religion in a song,
and that changed your game. Changed everything. Stop a lyric
(32:34):
in a song. How people don't realize how they could
influence some of else's life, like you, oh part of
your success to Fergie singing? Whoever wrote that? Whoever wrote that?
Whoever wrote that? I would drop stuff off? I mean, uh,
people were wearing the pants at the Grammy's us Shure.
I dropped him off at his hotel one time. How exciting. Oh,
(32:54):
it just freaking yeah. I mean there were just people
who at the time, there was no e commerce, there
was no social media, so it was a real gorilla
grass things. Absolutely. I would go to fred Seagulls, I
would go to Nimans. I would address all the girls.
That's very important for people who are starting a business.
Get to know the salespeople. Oh interesting, who yet, Yeah,
(33:18):
well that's what Tito's vodka is. The urban myth is
said that the person would go up to the bartenders
and charm them and get them to serve the vodka.
I don't know if that's true, but it sounds true.
And I used to slept my pashman as in l
A and I used to show every way to wear
them and as a skirt, as a top, and all
the celebrities would come and buy them, and I'm the
one who talks to everybody to get money donated for
(33:40):
relief work. You're right, you're telling people that it's not
about a social media post. It's not about a filter.
I say this every day until my head falls up.
It's about old school hustle and hard work. You were
touching the customer from every angle. These easy things that
you were doing. You were only like one or two
steps away from these celebrities. So you were talking to
the salespeople and you were just getting the product in
people's hands, if it's food, get the product in people's mouths.
(34:04):
This I think. I think that's a lost art because
of social media. Um. I think when you go into
a store life freend sigles at the time, Yes, and
you give all the girls the pants, they have to
wear them. They have to understand why they feel good,
(34:25):
why why they want to sell them. I would go
into Nemans and they'd have a rack of true Religion
in the way back. I'd actually take the rack and
move it and talk to the salespeople and give it interesting.
Such a good message for people at home, just if
you don't have well. I used to look at the
TV shows because I wanted to be on a cooking show.
(34:48):
And I would just read the names of the producers
down to the lowest person, and I'd start connecting with them.
And I would get meetings to go up to like
Bobby Flames Production Company, and I would just you know,
just just just pest or people, just in a very
nice way, but connecting. I was always connecting. You've always
been connecting. And so people who you know, if you
don't have a publicist, look in the magazine, find out
(35:09):
who the editors, Send them some stuff, send them a note.
That's what I used to do. I have a publicist.
I have to read the names, send the right or something. Yeah,
it's very interesting, which you're saying very basic things, and
so if people should go back to basics of hard
work and grassroots and I like that. Yeah, so you
(35:36):
you decide to sell it sounds like a no brainer.
You had been in business for how long? Yeah? So
from well I sold, I sold my shares before to
get the funk out to sell. Okay, okay, so from
two thousand one to two thousand eight, still a long time,
Yeah it is. But when it became a public company,
(35:59):
which is really in justing was a whole other way
of doing business. And so we were approached by people
who wanted to make the company public, and so we were.
We were at sixty six a share. Then we went
to Nastack when people were buying into the company at
seven dollars, so we rang the bell. But did you
make a lot of money then when it went public? Yes?
(36:19):
What sales were you doing before they wanted to approach
you to go public? Wow? Um, we probably were doing
not even that much, maybe a half a million a year,
five hundred thousand dollars a year, and you were approached
to be public. That's interesting, fascinating. Okay, so I have
a hundred million dollar yar business ones approaching media be public.
I wouldn't even say yes. I don't know, I don't
know what it means. But okay, so that's interesting. Well,
(36:42):
you know the thing about that, Bethany, is you're not
gonna have another conversation about I know you're a hundred
percent of your business and I aren't hundred percent of
my business now. Thing about being public, which is really cool,
is it's a way to make a lot more money.
Somebody comes in and buys your shares. Your public company
is worth more. They're buying you out. They're buying all
(37:07):
the shareholders out. You're worth more than as a private company. Wow,
it's so interesting. Okay, so your public and then what happens. Well,
the thing about being public, the the downside of being
public is that you're beholden to your shareholders, right, so
your margins have to be tighter. They want you to
go overseas to make your ship go to Mexico. I
(37:28):
wanted to make it in l A. You don't have
the power you had before. Yeah, And so I think
that was my decline in not having fun anymore, because
it's really never about the money. For me, it's about
getting up in the morning having fun. And then I'm
having these old guys the challenge. Every successful person says
it's not about the money, and I believe them, Like
(37:49):
every successful person I respect, I believe them. You like,
the money is nice and it's a sign and it's
a scorecard, but it's not. You can't the money will
not know. The only thing money does for anybody is
of view an opportunity to make different choices. That's the
only thing money does. And for me, I'm able to
buy my boys a triplex in in Culver City. They
(38:10):
lived together. Um, you know, my biggest, My biggest I
would say success in this world are raising three good humans.
It's been a slippery slope having money and raising kids
who who are respect for people and women and women
(38:31):
who work and they're very humble. And I think it's
been a slippery slope raising kids when you have quite
a bit of money. It's very it's very very difficult. Interesting. Yeah, no,
I know, because you you can't ever give them the
experience that you had not having it and having to hustle,
So you have to do it in different ways and
just at least they'll be wonderful people. And I have
(38:52):
a beautiful, sweet daughter that I can't even believe is
related to me. Um. Okay, So how did the sale
change the business? Like? What did you watch? Because I
see this a lot people sell a business and has
nothing to do with the money. You did well, I mean,
but I've watched what happened with the Skinny Girl cocktail
since I gave up my part of it, and all
these big companies think they know better, and it's something
good for young entrepreneurs to know not whether you sell
(39:15):
or not, because that's not relatable to you at this time.
But what is relatable to you is other people trying
to tell you the decisions to make, thinking they know better.
And you would think that these multibillion dollar companies know
better than you, but you'd be surprised how smart you
actually are, because you would think that a girl who
lived in an apartment and had eight thousand dollars to
her name would not know more than a massive, multibillion
(39:35):
dollar company about cocktails. But nothing like a big company
to ruin the spirit of a brand if it's not
done properly. So I don't hear much religion like I
used to anymore. So what happened? They fucked it up?
Let me tell you something. You take the designer out
and the soul of a business, it's never the same, never, never,
(39:56):
never they brought they They've They've asked me at a
hundred million times. Oh really, yeah, can you consult? Can
you do this? I've been there, I went, and I'm like,
you know, fashion is fickle. It had you take Jill
Sandra out of Jillson, you take Donna Careen outter Donna
car and is now with Urban zen. Well, there's a
company that I had called Bella Doll, okay, and it's
(40:17):
out there now. I don't consider anything a failure. I
consider uh an experience to goo that's never happened to
me again. So with Bella Doll that happened to me.
I wasn't as savvy. It was a company I had
a long time ago, but it was my baby, and
it got stolen. I mean, it literally got stolen because
(40:38):
because you're creative at the time and it got you,
we're not focusing on the dotted line and the people
around you. And you know, when things are moving quickly
and things are becoming successful and things get exciting, everybody
trusts everybody. And I always say, because my divorce lawyers
said it to me, anything can happen in a courtroom,
anything can happen in business. And you gotta also the
(41:00):
harsh truth is you have to start from a place
of not trusting and then let people earn your trust.
But you always have to sleep with one eye open.
It's just the nature of the beast. When you're dealing
with money and success, it's just you gotta be a
tough bitch, I mean, and I think that's you know
an interesting thing because being fifty five and being a
(41:21):
woman in business so long ago, I was treated like
shit as the largest shareholder of a company. Okay, like
don't look here, look up, look at look at look
you know it is right, I'm the one I this
is my idea. And I think that when you have
to remind people to this day, I have partners and
I will not mention who they are. I still have
to remind them. And I'm still the child talking to
(41:44):
a father who's like talking down to him. It still happens,
and you get into that dynamic as a woman. Cheryl
Sandberg talks about that where I still feel like I'm
sometimes Cowtown and then you know, and then I snap,
I'm like, I'm the fucking rainmaker around here. That's what
you're saying. Yeah, you know what I mean. And I
think that the less you say walk away, don't even
engage with these guys. Just let them. They're trying to
(42:07):
get you know, a rise at you walk away. I
just go, Okay, I know I don't have to say
I'm the boss. I don't even have to say it's
my idea. It is my idea. So I get tired
overall and my my my not struggle. But my big
project and discipline is to really stay out of the
weeds and prioritize and organize and execute and delegate. And
(42:31):
I sometimes want off the ride. It sounds like you
just thrive on the ride and you just want to
be in it at all times when you are a true,
tried and true business person like I, I I think I
could partially retire at some point. I don't think you could. Well,
it's funny. I started this um you know, company style
union home and my son and Marlin said to me,
can you just have a hobby, And I'm just like, no,
(42:54):
it is a hobby working to me. Although I've gotten better,
I've taken the work had off. Literally when I come
into the house or when there's no TV downstairs, there's
no one TV in this house. One TV. There's no
phones when we eat dinner. So that that to me.
(43:14):
Because I'll tell you something, Bethany, I have no fear
in business. Business is not going to break my heart.
The only thing that's going to break my heart and
keep me up at night are my kids and my
friends and my family and my sister's business. I can
walk away. Literally, money is like whatever, it's not gonna
give you a high five at night or whatever or
(43:35):
give you a hug. I have no fear when it
comes to business, So I like doing it. I like
the challenge. I like to be Yeah, it doesn't, I
get it. So you've been married twice, you're in a relationship,
and you could be talking about your mistakes or your success.
Is what do you believe is required to have a
quote unquote successful relationship. I have worked really really hard
(43:59):
and this relationship and going into this third relationship so hard.
Is making him a priority? Yep, uh, we we have.
I get it. Great therapy, we um the way we
always talk to each other with dignity and respect. That
is the number one thing. I could be pissed, but
I can still talk to you while I'm angry, so
(44:22):
you can hear me and I'm not talking at someone
at all, and coming from this is how I feel.
Not you did that. No, this is how I said
the same thing. Oh my god, I said the same thing.
You should read and not kitchen sinking this book. Dr Amador,
This guy dr Amador always said that don't start with you.
You said this is how I feel. That's so funny. Yeah,
(44:43):
we do have a lot of similarities, really do. But
my mom was also a therapist. But but I believe
in therapy. She started us in therapy at like I
swear to God one we've been to Shaman's and men
you know all those you know, those big weekend things
called the forum, and we've always done so. But I
think in this particular relationship, this is what I've learned
(45:04):
from the past relationship, what not to do and what
is my priority. I am not my business. I'm a
woman who wants to be in love and treated like
a woman and be and and he's sugarous, and I
think that women think they could only be business and
they have to be that way at home. No, I
(45:26):
take my hat off and I'm Kim. I'm the soft Kim.
I'm out in the world. I'm business Kim. Well, that's
important that you know, I mean, with gender conversations, I
guess it depends upon how you say it, but that
you allow the man in your relationship to be the
man despite you being uh so successful, which has historically
been attributed to male traits. Being strong in a boardroom,
(45:50):
being tough, that's all been attributed to male behavior and
I've had women say to me, you're basically a man now,
and I'm like, no, I'm not. I think I'm a woman.
I'm pretty sure i'm a woman because my ex husband said,
you're just a woman, You're just a man, just as
a just as a woman. And I'm like, why would
you even say that? Exactly, just exactly not aggressive. We're strong, right,
(46:11):
So do you what percentage lucky do you think you are?
And what percentage smart? I get asked that a lot. Uh.
I think luck. I believe in timing. Luck is something
that people say, what what are you lucky? What you
want the lottery? I guess that's lucky. But I believe
(46:32):
I'm really smart and I know what it's timing. Everything
is timing, Everything is absolutely timing beyond. I've heard so
many good ideas that are before their time, like that
I now say that go ahead that I did ten
years ago, but it was just too soon. You have
to know it's like double dutch. You gotta know when
to jump into that jump rope went to jump out
(46:53):
like it's waves. You have to know when to not
get crushed by the set and just let them, you know,
take pick your spot, pick time, because if you go
in and you get crushed, you might not go back
in again. It's happened to me with business when I
was asked to go into Target with my wheat egg
and dairy free cookies, and I just knew I wasn't ready,
and I knew if I went in, I'd burn that bridge.
The same thing with Whole Foods and maybe never be
(47:14):
invited back. So you got to know how to pick
your times jump in but at the right time. Well,
that was a different kind of conversation because it felt
like we were just having a drink, you know, And
it was hard to some as I get anxiety during
a conversation because I'm worried I'm not going to get
to everything. But so anybody listening, that was like sitting
at a restaurant. We have two cocktails and we're just
chatting about our experiences and I could talk to you forever.
(47:36):
So it was really interesting. You have incredible story. Um,
it's so funny the like interconnected things that we have.
And I appreciate your time so much and I wish
you luck with Style Union Home. I know it's already
a success, and your real estate and renovations and just
the continued success as a young woman. It's amazing. You're
the best, Stephany, You're the best. Wow, Kim Gold. Honestly,
(48:05):
we all know what true religion jeans are. And then
to hear that she qualetly sold this business eight or
sixty five million dollars to twenty years ago, it's like
your head will blow up. Which I mean, these entrepreneurs
that you might not have even heard of are just staggering.
I mean, I can't believe all the things I have
in common with these different people that I never even
(48:26):
either knew existed, didn't know anything about or know them,
but didn't know I was anything like. I mean, it
is endless the things that I have in common with
Kim Gold as a boss, as a businesswoman, as a
nice person. So that was fascinating. There's so much to learn.
And you know, she was just grassroots guerrilla marketing, hustling
(48:49):
and struggling and just doing it herself. Her Stacy's pet
to chips I called Stacy turning into Spacey. But you
could do it too. You literally could do it too
nothing with no money, just a little bit of creativity, drive, passion,
hard work and determination and you know, an idea, one idea,
two ideas, many ideas. It doesn't matter. This is amazing.
(49:12):
Thank you so much. Remember to rate her view and subscribe.
And I appreciate you and you're listening, so thank you.
Have a wonderful day. Just Be is hosted an executive
produced by me, Bethany Frankel. Just Be as a production
of Be Real Productions and I Heart Radio. Our Managing
(49:35):
producer is Fiona Smith, and our producer is Stephanie Stender.
Our EP is Morgan Levoy. To catch more moments from
the show, follow us on Instagram and just be with
Bethany
I was in a very cool place that had like
not just cold brew, but like cold brew elevated coffee
and very conscientious and locally sourced and sustainable and organic
and deep tissue massage kale type coffee. It just was
(00:35):
a very current Williamsburg type coffee place that had oh milk,
mcadamia nut milk, brought cash you milk, I'm short, pistachio milk,
sesameseed milk. And you know there's not like hazel nut milk,
brazil nut milk. There's not a nut milk on the
(00:56):
planet Earth that was not at this place. And you
waited a really long time, like Paul and I were
like are we waiting for our car to be detailed?
Like it was a long time to get the coffee.
Were standing outside. I'm such a Karen, may please speak
to please speak to the manager, like the logical plaints.
So anyway, we're in the parking lone and we were
(01:17):
just like, this is a lot, this is taking a
long time, and it's just it's not setting the place
up for success in my mind, because if it was
that the best coffee I've ever had, you know, it's
gonna be a whole thing and I could do a
separate brand on coffee just in general, because I just
find that coffee anyway, ice coffee is like the holy grail,
Like even at Starbucks, who can duplicate drinks like McDonald's
(01:39):
can duplicate cheeseburgers, or Nobuo can duplicate black cotton miso
sauce or rock shrimp um for the tiniest infantestinal population
in the world that have had those two items. But McDonald's, like,
it's always duplicated unless it's in France and there's mustard
on the burger. And Starbucks does a great job of
certain drinks of duplication. But ice coffee, no matter where
(02:01):
you go, ice coffee tastes like watered down garbage. It
just you can't get it right. It's either too strong
and it doesn't have that like milky look, or it
has that milky look and it tastes like beige ice water.
It's just gross. So anyway, it's just it's already setting
itself up for failure because you just ce coffee, I
just find cannot be ordered out. It's just not great.
(02:22):
You have to do it yourself and your own way
at home. So but we got a drink we got.
I think we got a nice drink because we're self
loathing massa kiss and I said, do do you have
a straw? Because I mean, I know, I think we're
now in the land of paper straws. I don't know
what they're doing in Massachusetts, but we're in the I
think the whole world is a paper straw world. Now,
once in a while you get like a little plastic
straw that shows up, which is like one chocolate sprinkle
(02:45):
in the rainbow box, and just like I just got
a plastic straw. I'm so excited because it's like a
throwback to the plastic straw world, because that's of course,
we have plastic credit cards, plastic cars, plastic tits, plastic surgery.
But at Starbucks and everywhere else, we are drawing a
line in our plastic cup. We're putting a paper straw
(03:05):
in there, which I've talked about before. It's very important.
So I'm leaving and I go up to get my
coffee and I said, hey, do you have a straw?
Which I didn't know is like you're not allowed to
ask anymore, like even paper straws. That's probably they've been
canceled too. So I said, do you have a straw? Um? No,
but we do have a sip cup, not even that.
She didn't even say it that way. She goes, uh, no,
we have a sip cup, which was like code for
(03:29):
you eighties asshole. You should fucking know that you don't.
We don't straw So I just didn't know that we're
not strawing at all anymore. And I know it does
give your wrinkles, and people with botox are like strawing
sideways because they can't move their mouth, and people who
have wrinkles like me are just getting more wrinkles because
we're strong, and it's not good for your beauty too,
(03:50):
straw But I'm a straw er and I just don't
feel that things are taste the same with or without straws.
So that was the first moment that I had, like, oh, okay,
I've just been schooled. Um I was not coffee straw woke.
And then I was at a restaurant that is like
(04:10):
an amazing restaurant and super respected and everyone was talking
about it and it's the greatest restaurant and it's the
best restaurant. It's impossible to get a reservation and two
years from Thursday. We made a reservation pre pandemic to
go now, hoping there'd be no pandemic, you know, post
Ppe scandal that I went through, you know, just like
we planned four years ago for this reservation. So we
(04:32):
sat down and um, we ordered different types of food,
and I came I grew up in the time, back
in my day, we got the food together. Like sushi
doesn't count necessarily because you get roles at a time.
But back in my day, my generation, if two people
ordered an appetizer that came at the same time, and
if you ordered an entree that the bat came at
(04:52):
the same time, unless it's family style and it's coming
for everybody, and then they've asked you if you've dined
with them before, and gave you the whole thing. So, um,
I got like three different things before Paul got his cheeseburger.
I literally got a pasta, I got a starter, I
got shshido peppers, like a whole bunch of things. And
I felt sort of selfish, like I felt like I
(05:14):
was pleasuring myself in bed before I even thinking about Paul.
So he got his later. His was really taking a
long time. I guess it's a different person doing it.
It's a different process. So I said, hey, do you know,
do you know where his his burgers? And I said, um,
things come out when they're ready here like so I don't, okay,
(05:34):
so that we're doing that to now. We don't do
straws and we don't do timing and meals anymore. You
could get your crambolay dessert when I get my appetizer
shrimp cocktail. That's just another thing that we're doing now.
So that's, you know, part of passagg dining in. Yeah, No,
we do things differently here. We do it differently here.
(05:55):
We food comes out as we decide whereas we're ready,
and we don't straw We sip cup ladies and gentlemen.
I mean usually I throw to the audience, and I
will do that today. But you may come here with
a straight jacket and take me away for this ridiculous rant.
So it's whatever you want to talk about, whatever you
(06:17):
want to say, whatever you think, if you understand what
I'm talking about. But I just want to know A.
Our straws canceled altogether, and B is getting food at
the same time as the other person you're dining with.
Also canceled. Is that over to? My guest today is
(06:38):
Kim Gold fashion and home design executive. She has founded
many successful brands, but is well known for co founding
the famous Dunham brand, True Religion, which she sold back
in two thousand thirteen for over eight hundred million dollars
before it was cool to be an almost billionaire. She's
such an inspiration as an entrepreneur and it is her
(07:00):
determination that brought her success. Today we talk grassroots marketing,
having to do things yourself and being a boss without fear.
I hope you enjoy it. So you're from Malibu, like
originally you were born and you lived in Malibi as
(07:21):
a child. Yes, raised in Malibu. Wow, that's so interesting.
I wonder what was that like? Amazing back then it
was beautiful, it was quiet, it was there were no celebrities.
It was amazing. Yeah, point doom. You're a triplet. I'm
an identical triplet. You're an identical triplet. So that first
(07:44):
of all, it's rare to be a triplet, but to
be identical triplet is unheard of. I mean I've never
heard of. I don't know any other identical triplets. I mean,
what's interesting about Uh, my mom didn't even know she
was having triplets. I mean back in the day, I'm
fifty five, they didn't even have ultrasounds. So they did
an X ray and found that she was having triplets.
(08:05):
As a just a normal person, not with taking anything
to try to have kids. This is just a normal
person because now you can pick your kids, you know,
like how long, how big you can pick someone's shoe size.
Now I call her shoes eye probably probably they're signed.
So then you were just a luck of a draw
lottery identical triplet. Wow, yeah, id fascinating. So what were
(08:29):
your parents like? So, but you're the only you only
have two siblings, meaning they didn't have before. No, no, no,
I have five brothers. Holy like both my father's stepfather,
real father, both attorneys, both went to Berkeley. My mom
was a psychologist recently passed, and my stepmom does cancer
research at Cedars. So I come from a very you
(08:54):
know that type of family, academic, very academic. And when
Mark and I before we got married, Mark Brenan and
I my my dad who's an attorney, my stepmom, who
you know, was in the medical field. So said, you
and Mark will never do well or become successful if
you don't have uh an education in whatever it was. Right, Hello,
(09:20):
I sold a company for close to a billion fucking balls.
Is one of the biggest producers of our time. I know. Wow,
that's amazing. Well, that's a good. So that for people
listening is you have to go with your own gut
and not everybody else knows the path that you're going
to chart, including yourself. But you know, people can really
stop other people down and hinder energy and drive and
(09:42):
crush spirits. You know, people don't dream as big as
as possibly you do. And maybe you just had different
sites for yourself, both of you. Well for sure, I mean,
I know being an identical triplet was a huge part
of me figuring out how to be an individ jewel, Right,
That's what I was wondering. Yeah, And I think because
(10:04):
my sisters and I are like living each other's underwear basically, uh,
they're very successful, but I am and other. The word
entrepreneur gets thrown around a lot. It really does, and
I don't know why it bothers me, But so does
the word brand, which is annoying. Okay, the word brand,
like what that just started ten years ago and or
(10:26):
eight years ago, seven years ago, and now everybody my
personal brand, my lifestyle brand. I'm a brand, you're a brand?
What's your brand? Not everybody has a brand? No, I
mean you could say that, you know, I say, Marlin
is my husband. We're not legally married. But oh what
is how? How are you? What's your brand with you
and Marlin? What? What's your brand? Relationship brand? My relationship brand? Mean,
(10:51):
you know the relationship couple things. But it's interesting, Bethan,
he is that you and I And listen to your podcast.
I'm not a big podcast listener, but I really listen
to yours because we have so much in common. Well,
I read some of the things about you never have
big plans and strategies for what you're going to do.
You do what you love. If it's not fun, you
(11:12):
don't like doing it anymore than you stopped doing it.
So I get that. I get that, and people who said,
you know people who say, do what you love and
you'll be good at it. It's just a basic principle. Uh.
And then some people say that's bullshit. You have to,
you know, go with focus groups and you need data,
and we're not those people. So when did you start
to work. When did you get this fire inside of
(11:34):
you that says I want to work? Because I um
know Mark Garnette. We uh did a show together. We
were partners. I was on The Apprentice. If that didn't
mean I knew him, because I didn't. I was on
Shark Tank. So I read Tank. You're really good. Oh,
thank you. So I've read Mark Burnette's book and it's
I'm reading through some paperwork on you. You're the first
(11:56):
person that's sort of entertainment or you know, industry adjacent
and a fashion person that sold their company twenty years
ago for almost a billion dollars that I had never
heard of, which is fascinating. But I don't know everything
about everything. But I mean a lot of people who
are listening will not have heard of you, and they're
gonna be shocked when I say, twenty years ago you
sold your company for almost a billion dollars. That would
be a massive deal now, and we'll get into it.
(12:17):
But Mark Burnette's book talked about selling T shirts in Venice.
So when I'm reading the beginning of your bio, I'm
reading that you were selling T shirts in Venice. So
the first thing I thought to myself is Oh wait,
that's what Mark Burnette did five minutes later? Did I
read like just a little blurb about him? And I
didn't even realize you guys were married, so you could
you can take it away now about work and T
shirts and all that. I just did not know that
(12:40):
Mark and I are still friends. Amazing and uh I
have had many discussions with him about why you've lied
about that on Venice Beach, the T shirt thing. He
wasn't selling T shirts. It was my business. Oh but
wasn't he selling T shirts with you after a while? Yeah,
(13:00):
got it? Okay, So you guys are good friends, So
isn't it gonna be annoyed that we're discuss I mean,
I'm not like I didn't even know this until two
couple of hours ago, that you guys were married. And
literally when I saw the T shirt thing, I thought, oh,
that's so funny. They have it in common. I didn't
even know you knew each other. So so this is
what happens when different people write books. So he wrote
a book saying he was selling T shirts, which is
(13:22):
true because he was selling T shirts and it was
your business. But he did he say it was his business? No,
I mean, he claims it was this business, but it wasn't.
It was my business. He was, you know, working um
in a company in a cubicle, and I said, come
work with me. I always say, for example, the Winkelvoss Twins.
(13:44):
I've only seen what I've seen in movies, right, So
let's pretend that Mark Zuckerberg did steal their idea. No
matter what Mark Zuckerberg executed and whoever those guys are,
I don't know anything about them, and they're wealthy on
their own right, they couldn't have done what he did.
So I feel that way. So you sold your company
for almost a billion dollars, it speaks for itself. Uh.
But Mark has been utterly influential in his space that
(14:08):
he's crazy. I mean, you know what I mean, to
be that influential in the reality TV spece. So it's
not like now he made all his money in the
garment industry. It would drive you crazy. It's not like
where Kim Kardashian was organizing Paris's closets, and they're both
sort of famous in the same sort of way, doing
the same sort of thing. That could be maddening to
someone like Paris because Kim's Kardashian went to the Paris
Hilton School of Fame and sort of just became more
(14:31):
successful than the teacher in the class. But at least
you're in different industries. In my opinion, thank god for
both of you, because you're he you both succeeded into
totally different worlds. Correct. Yeah. And I have a lot
of respect from Mark. A friend of mine men into
him who works for me the other day and he goes,
please tell Kimberly hello. I can text him right now
and say, hey, how's it going. We have a lot
(14:52):
of respect for each other. All I'm saying is if
you do something with somebody, say that I think you're
saying it. It's not that you care. If he said
we were doing it together, you were left out of
the story. That's what you're saying. That's all I care about.
Oh yeah, and you have the receipts. I get it. Okay,
So you're you're saying, and now here you are with
on my podcast and you have your own book, etcetera.
(15:14):
You just wanted to be part of the story because
you were in the past. Maybe it was out of
respect to his wife or something. But in the facts
are the facts. And I fully get what you're saying.
I get what you're saying. I got it. Now got it? Well,
we were married, I mean Mark and I were married,
So I mean again, we're we're friends. I have a
lot of respect from Mark. We have a lot of
respect for each other. He has done incredible things, and
(15:38):
along the way, a lot of people have been a
part of his success. I believe in it's a team
effort and the people who help you along the way
are the people that should also get those accolades. So
(15:59):
what happened in the beginning, So you tell me how
this all happens. You start a business, you get into
the apparel space. How I want to hear the stories
of people at home, can you know, figure out a
way to do this for themselves? Yeah? I mean, um,
I was in college getting a business degree. I was bored.
I left, I went downtown. I started knocking on doors,
(16:20):
getting damages and you know, irregulars and borrow from my peach.
She means damaged goods. But just like a tiny little thing,
it's not cannot be sal so for retail price, but
someone else like us might like it just the same,
but at a significant discount. Right, kind of like you
know what you were doing at supermarkets and you know, hustling,
and so I ended up getting about five different swap
(16:44):
meets on a weekend. One of my sisters worked for
me at the time. So there's rose Bowl, there's venice
speed up, There's was a big deal back then. That
was that big. Every third Sunday. That swat meet in
Pasadena was another level. So much fun. And yeah, we
were doing I was doing about fifty thousand dollars a
(17:06):
month in cash and a getting my real estate license
at the same time. Um, and you know, ended up
buying my first place in Malibu, a townhouse with that money. Wow,
bought a building prior to that house. And by the way,
that sounds very like for people listening, it's old school
(17:30):
hard work. That doesn't sound that expensive to start. That
sounds fairly easy. Anybody can go. You know, my daughter
went and bought candy and then to buy to buy
Jordan's and then she went around her neighborhood. You about
seven dollars with a candy and she sold for nine dollars, Like, okay,
do you know what I'm saying? She makes jewels, she
makes necklaces. I've seen them out and I've seen them
fifty dollars in the Hampton stores. So she makes them,
(17:51):
she could sell them. So sometimes things don't have to
be that complicated. You had an idea that damaged goods
that would still be uh interesting to people like myself.
I don't care if it has a little tiny pull
on it. And then you went and sold it and
you just took the cash and you bought a place
like it was very basic. You just were dustling and
working really hard and making connections. I assume. I think
(18:11):
for me, um work is the key. Hustling, meeting people,
not taking no for an answer. Uh, you know that's
my motto, you know, I'm I'm I'm I'm looking for
the yes right. And And the building that I was
living with we were renting with Mark. I ended up
(18:36):
buying it with this money that I made. The guy
who we bought it from wanted to buy it back,
and I said, I'll buy it, so I'll sell it
back to you like two months later for seventy five dollars.
So we made seventy five thou dollars. I made seventy
five thou dollars literally two months after I bought that place.
(18:57):
So you just accident you started in selling T shirts
and then accidentally got a taste of real estate. I've
been I've been flipping forever. I do that too, and
I love it and I get why you love it.
It's having a vision. So you're a person with vision,
You just have an idea. You just see the space
that someone else doesn't see, and you drive right through it.
(19:17):
So how did you get into genes? Which I'm in
jeans too, and it's a very you know, I'm I
just did a deal with Gerard from you know, seven Jeans.
But that's a tough business for an even listening like
that is a tough business. Margins, competition, design male designers,
male owners. You know, not that many women in the space.
(19:38):
The top ten jeans brands run by men for decades.
So tell me how you get into jeans? How you
break through in jeans? Well, I think the fashion business
is cut throat in whatever business whatever, nits or whatever.
But I had three companies before true Religion. Okay, so
when I got into jens um I I'm a g girl.
(20:00):
I'm a Levi girl. This is what I did, jeans
and T shirts and whatever. But I wanted to make
something that was more fashion right, nobody was doing it.
I like to go after something that I want to wear,
but I can't find it. Same same annoys me to have. Yeah,
I don't like the same things any something, and I'll
(20:23):
just like cut the shame it out of it and redoing. Uh.
But because I've been in the fashion business way before that,
um I and I ended up doing this gene. Actually
I was working for Liz Claiborne Um and I actually
did this brand for Neiman Marcus. Before I started True Religion,
(20:43):
I was doing hippie jeans with Draward with the well
Paul Gaz left that working started True Religion. And the
thing about True Religion is there wasn't a fashion. It
was like what uh, Friday Jean Day was casual. I
wanted to be sexy. I wanted to fit the curvy
girl because skinny girls could wear anything. Really, you know,
(21:07):
skinny girls could anything. Nobody was doing anything for the voluptuous.
That was the time of Seven Jeans and Jay Brandon.
Everything was skinny, skinny, skinny jegging. That was that era. Okay,
got it right, and we started Jay brand before and
I know all those guys, but True religion started exactly
(21:27):
when seven started. But in fairness to you and to
everybody listening, when you got in, you were in a
sea of sharks. Like before that, jeans weren't so in
Like you got in years before it was Big John
and Edwin. Years before that it was Georgash and whenever
you got in the third big round when currently that's
when jeans became fashion. So that's more competitive. Well yeah,
(21:50):
I mean I had a board of directors all met,
you know, and and it was very difficult because I'm
the largest shareholder of a company at the time, and
it was like, this is how we're gonna do it.
I'm a woman, I'm designing this gene, I'm the fit model.
I'm doing this. It was very technical. Um, from the
(22:10):
seams going forward to the to the knee, to the
leg opening, to the front rise to you know the
way the uh when you do a front rise to
the back. It was like eight and a half in
front and twelve and a half in the back to
fit those curvy women. And and we we we discovered
(22:32):
two percent micra wow. Um. But you know my ex
husband Jack, he was he was a fabric salesperson and
when and I said, listen, you know everything about fabric.
Let's do this. And that's how true religion started. So
with your ex husband, was he part of the success?
(22:55):
Is he versus? Is he in good shape financially because
of that as well? Oh my god? Oh yeah, okay,
so you went and I'm ride together. Well, you know,
it was a very nasty divorce, and people go, did
you do well? You said, let me tell you something.
I was the largest shareholder of a company, but I
had a global I did. This is important, Bethany, because
(23:17):
a lot of people who get into nasty divorces. I said,
fuck this. I called in forensic accountants, all my attorneys, everybody,
financial advisor, and I said, you know what, you guys,
this is what I'm doing. I'm not making you millions
of dollars and I want my life back. If I
wanted to stay fighting in a marriage, I'm I'm I'm staying.
(23:38):
I'm gonna fight. So I got millions of millions of
dollars global settlement, tax free, and walk the funk away.
That's what I did. You mean in your divorce or
you're saying it was a global divorce and the company
I took company and walked away at the same time
from everything. You walked away. You took the money from
(23:58):
the deal, you took the suation from you divorce, and
you wiped washed your hands. I had a situation that no,
I've never told anyone, and I'm not gonna mention names
or anything, but I had a situation where when I
came up with the idea for the Skinny Girl, margarity
like the light bulb was um. I wasn't in a relationship.
I was single. I came up with the idea and
(24:20):
I went through that entire idea on television, the crappy logo,
the the formula was in jugs that look like Clorox
bottles before the actual glass came in. I went through.
This was over a year of just the formulation, what
does it taste like? The whole thing. Then I got
into a relationship, and then I got married. The product
(24:41):
launched similar time. Like the product launched, it was marketed
similar time. When I got married and had an agreement,
I never had a value of what Skinny Girl was
worth because it wasn't I didn't know what it was
worth yet. It was like it was an idea, it
was a bottle, it was on TV. I put it
on TV. That was worth millions of was the fact
that I put it on TV, but it didn't have
(25:02):
a tangible value because I hadn't made a dime. I
got divorced, well it took me nine years to get divorced,
but we split up two years later. So right after
I hit the jackpot, I split up. So I had
to go, like you said, with the forensic accountant to
prove that it wasn't worth zero when we got together
and worth all this money after I sold that that
(25:22):
it was worth so much when we got together because
it had been in the bottles, it had been on
the show, it had been at my wedding. I had
the label, I had the logo, had the idea. So
I understand what you're talking about. So cover your bases
in the beginning, people, and prepare to take a trip
to the moon, because you just might actually take one.
And I was absolutely broke, you know, not that many
(25:45):
years ago. So that that's just I don't even know
how we don't know each other. I really, I really don't. Um.
We know a lot of similar people. I have a
Mark Cuban funny story too, a really great story. But
you and I are very very similar in how we
approached things. And and by the way, I had three boys.
(26:07):
I have three kids, right, so I raised them on
my own. If you get into business, okay, and I
come from a family of attorneys, keep your business separate
from your marriage. One percent. It seems so tempting. You've
done it, Stacy's Peter Chips did it. We've all. I
spoke to her. She saw for two hundred sixty million
(26:27):
dollars twenty years ago. Also, we've all done it. I
never had a dime to my name. Then I buy
that apartment that you saw on the show in Tribeca
and had to fight millions of dollars to just keep
something that was my apartment because other skating in that apartment. Right, Yeah,
I'd decided to keep that and and and it was
(26:48):
extremely expensive, and there was some shady stuff that had happened.
But yes, do not mix business with pleasure, no matter
how tempting it might be. All right, but we want
to hear about your business. So Jean's business is intense.
It's the same aime group of people running that whole business.
The way that people pay in the fashion business. It
means you don't get paid for thirty days, so you're
like living on rice, trying to wait to get your
(27:10):
quote unquote piece goods meaning the buttons, the materials to
be able to make your next order. So how are
you surviving in this business just because j Lo is
wearing your jeans? How are you? What are you doing?
How do you know how to do this? Okay? So
what I was doing was working two jobs okay, for
Liz Clayborn and for a company back in the day
(27:31):
called Rampage. I remember Rampage. I used to go there
with Harris and Nikki when I babysitt them. It is
like the forever twenty one and back I was working
for Larry Hansel and working for a company called Laundry
by Shelley Seagull. I remember two jobs. Eight seven in
the morning, tenant night. Jeff was watching the kids. And
(27:51):
when I hear people say, oh, I'm tired, and I
you know, I don't know how to open up my
own business. You know what, do the work? Because you
have to just the bottom line, Yeah, you kill yourself.
So if you're not ready to do that, you're not
ready to have a business. You're not ready for it
to almost kill you and always be on the very edge.
It's not for you, and that's the truth. Does mean
you can't make a lot of money. But to be
an entrepreneur, a real entrepreneur, like you use that word,
(28:14):
you gotta be like hanging by the skin of your
teeth many times. Well, I think entrepreneur, Like I said earlier,
you have to use your own money. If you want
people to ultimately invest in your business, you have to
use your own money and invest in you. If you
use your own money, I agree, skin in the game.
So this business rampage Closed Laundry by Shelley Seagle was
(28:35):
a very successful business. Close hold hippie. I know the
girl close, all all the retail stores closed? So why
are all these businesses closed? What did they do wrong?
What did you do right? My vision is that many
fashion people think their business people. They're creatives that think
their business people and vice versa. I believe the business
(28:55):
people overall should stick to what they're good at. The
creative people should stick to with are good at, and
that's when people get into trouble, and I've seen that
in this business. So what is your opinion about why
all these successful brands with money have shut down. It's
a really good point. And I've listened to you asked
this question quite a bit. I'll tell you this much.
I have a business degree because I'm so creative, not
(29:19):
that I want to run my business. But no one's
going to steal my business if I don't know my business,
if I don't know my cost, if I don't know
what who my demographic is. But no, you're laying I
know what you're really really good at, and have people
on your team that share the same vision. And I
can sit in a meeting and I mean, I'm running
(29:41):
my my business. I always run my businesses, but I
don't want to. I get you don't want to be
in the weeds. You don't want to be in the weeds.
You hate the weeds, but you're always pulled back as
an entrepreneur into the weeds. How do you manage people well?
How do you get out of the weeds? How do
you have smarter people in the room than you? How
do you afford to have the staff that you need
(30:02):
when you don't have money? Not where you are now?
So tell people how you do all of that to
run a business. How do you do it all well?
At the beginning. If you don't have money, you do
it yourself. And that's a great way to learn what
you don't know. Okay, Uh, do not go in business
with the business with with a family member, that's number
(30:22):
one or a husband. Never never never, Um, Like my
assistant is right here next to me and finding um
for me. It's an it's an energy, it's they'll go
over and above. They have integrity, their transparent, they have
good communication. UM. A lot of it is um. There's
(30:46):
no complaining. They'll they'll do what it takes that it's done. Yeah,
I agree, And there aren't that many people these days
like that at all. Oh my god, no, I know
at every level. You can't believe they're working for you.
They've seen what you've done and they know that they
could do what you've done. And I've had every difficult job,
and so you look at people around you and you say,
you gotta pay your dues, man, you gotta pay your dues.
(31:07):
And you know, I think most importantly is I, oh
we I will never ask somebody to do something I
wouldn't do. I say that all the time. So let's
talk about selling the company for the number you got
it seems like a stupid question to ask why you
sold the company. I mean it's very obvious. I mean
that's a crazy number. So whatever, what the hell was
going on there? How much of the company did you own?
(31:28):
Would you own most of it? And were you like
what is going on? I was the second largest shareholder
of the company. And who was first? Someone who gave
you money gave it? Was a backer? Jeff and I
my ex husband. I started this company my ex husband.
Everything we had, we had three kids, everything on credit cards.
We were homeless. People don't even know. We were two
(31:50):
hundred fifty dollars and fucking debt with three kids living
in a hotel Okay, So we took our credit cards.
We made these. We made men's first, because you know,
women will wear men's ge men won't wear women's gene.
So we started with men's, started running around meeting people
where the geese and girls. Who was like the first
(32:12):
boyfriend gene um And it happened very quickly, I have
to say, because there was nothing out there like that.
As soon as Fergie talks about it in a song,
it's like, holy shit. She said true religion in a song,
and that changed your game. Changed everything. Stop a lyric
(32:34):
in a song. How people don't realize how they could
influence some of else's life, like you, oh part of
your success to Fergie singing? Whoever wrote that? Whoever wrote that?
Whoever wrote that? I would drop stuff off? I mean, uh,
people were wearing the pants at the Grammy's us Shure.
I dropped him off at his hotel one time. How exciting. Oh,
(32:54):
it just freaking yeah. I mean there were just people
who at the time, there was no e commerce, there
was no social media, so it was a real gorilla
grass things. Absolutely. I would go to fred Seagulls, I
would go to Nimans. I would address all the girls.
That's very important for people who are starting a business.
Get to know the salespeople. Oh interesting, who yet, Yeah,
(33:18):
well that's what Tito's vodka is. The urban myth is
said that the person would go up to the bartenders
and charm them and get them to serve the vodka.
I don't know if that's true, but it sounds true.
And I used to slept my pashman as in l
A and I used to show every way to wear
them and as a skirt, as a top, and all
the celebrities would come and buy them, and I'm the
one who talks to everybody to get money donated for
(33:40):
relief work. You're right, you're telling people that it's not
about a social media post. It's not about a filter.
I say this every day until my head falls up.
It's about old school hustle and hard work. You were
touching the customer from every angle. These easy things that
you were doing. You were only like one or two
steps away from these celebrities. So you were talking to
the salespeople and you were just getting the product in
people's hands, if it's food, get the product in people's mouths.
(34:04):
This I think. I think that's a lost art because
of social media. Um. I think when you go into
a store life freend sigles at the time, Yes, and
you give all the girls the pants, they have to
wear them. They have to understand why they feel good,
(34:25):
why why they want to sell them. I would go
into Nemans and they'd have a rack of true Religion
in the way back. I'd actually take the rack and
move it and talk to the salespeople and give it interesting.
Such a good message for people at home, just if
you don't have well. I used to look at the
TV shows because I wanted to be on a cooking show.
(34:48):
And I would just read the names of the producers
down to the lowest person, and I'd start connecting with them.
And I would get meetings to go up to like
Bobby Flames Production Company, and I would just you know,
just just just pest or people, just in a very
nice way, but connecting. I was always connecting. You've always
been connecting. And so people who you know, if you
don't have a publicist, look in the magazine, find out
(35:09):
who the editors, Send them some stuff, send them a note.
That's what I used to do. I have a publicist.
I have to read the names, send the right or something. Yeah,
it's very interesting, which you're saying very basic things, and
so if people should go back to basics of hard
work and grassroots and I like that. Yeah, so you
(35:36):
you decide to sell it sounds like a no brainer.
You had been in business for how long? Yeah? So
from well I sold, I sold my shares before to
get the funk out to sell. Okay, okay, so from
two thousand one to two thousand eight, still a long time,
Yeah it is. But when it became a public company,
(35:59):
which is really in justing was a whole other way
of doing business. And so we were approached by people
who wanted to make the company public, and so we were.
We were at sixty six a share. Then we went
to Nastack when people were buying into the company at
seven dollars, so we rang the bell. But did you
make a lot of money then when it went public? Yes?
(36:19):
What sales were you doing before they wanted to approach
you to go public? Wow? Um, we probably were doing
not even that much, maybe a half a million a year,
five hundred thousand dollars a year, and you were approached
to be public. That's interesting, fascinating. Okay, so I have
a hundred million dollar yar business ones approaching media be public.
I wouldn't even say yes. I don't know, I don't
know what it means. But okay, so that's interesting. Well,
(36:42):
you know the thing about that, Bethany, is you're not
gonna have another conversation about I know you're a hundred
percent of your business and I aren't hundred percent of
my business now. Thing about being public, which is really cool,
is it's a way to make a lot more money.
Somebody comes in and buys your shares. Your public company
is worth more. They're buying you out. They're buying all
(37:07):
the shareholders out. You're worth more than as a private company. Wow,
it's so interesting. Okay, so your public and then what happens. Well,
the thing about being public, the the downside of being
public is that you're beholden to your shareholders, right, so
your margins have to be tighter. They want you to
go overseas to make your ship go to Mexico. I
(37:28):
wanted to make it in l A. You don't have
the power you had before. Yeah, And so I think
that was my decline in not having fun anymore, because
it's really never about the money. For me, it's about
getting up in the morning having fun. And then I'm
having these old guys the challenge. Every successful person says
it's not about the money, and I believe them, Like
(37:49):
every successful person I respect, I believe them. You like,
the money is nice and it's a sign and it's
a scorecard, but it's not. You can't the money will
not know. The only thing money does for anybody is
of view an opportunity to make different choices. That's the
only thing money does. And for me, I'm able to
buy my boys a triplex in in Culver City. They
(38:10):
lived together. Um, you know, my biggest, My biggest I
would say success in this world are raising three good humans.
It's been a slippery slope having money and raising kids
who who are respect for people and women and women
(38:31):
who work and they're very humble. And I think it's
been a slippery slope raising kids when you have quite
a bit of money. It's very it's very very difficult. Interesting. Yeah, no,
I know, because you you can't ever give them the
experience that you had not having it and having to hustle,
So you have to do it in different ways and
just at least they'll be wonderful people. And I have
(38:52):
a beautiful, sweet daughter that I can't even believe is
related to me. Um. Okay, So how did the sale
change the business? Like? What did you watch? Because I
see this a lot people sell a business and has
nothing to do with the money. You did well, I mean,
but I've watched what happened with the Skinny Girl cocktail
since I gave up my part of it, and all
these big companies think they know better, and it's something
good for young entrepreneurs to know not whether you sell
(39:15):
or not, because that's not relatable to you at this time.
But what is relatable to you is other people trying
to tell you the decisions to make, thinking they know better.
And you would think that these multibillion dollar companies know
better than you, but you'd be surprised how smart you
actually are, because you would think that a girl who
lived in an apartment and had eight thousand dollars to
her name would not know more than a massive, multibillion
(39:35):
dollar company about cocktails. But nothing like a big company
to ruin the spirit of a brand if it's not
done properly. So I don't hear much religion like I
used to anymore. So what happened? They fucked it up?
Let me tell you something. You take the designer out
and the soul of a business, it's never the same, never, never,
(39:56):
never they brought they They've They've asked me at a
hundred million times. Oh really, yeah, can you consult? Can
you do this? I've been there, I went, and I'm like,
you know, fashion is fickle. It had you take Jill
Sandra out of Jillson, you take Donna Careen outter Donna
car and is now with Urban zen. Well, there's a
company that I had called Bella Doll, okay, and it's
(40:17):
out there now. I don't consider anything a failure. I
consider uh an experience to goo that's never happened to
me again. So with Bella Doll that happened to me.
I wasn't as savvy. It was a company I had
a long time ago, but it was my baby, and
it got stolen. I mean, it literally got stolen because
(40:38):
because you're creative at the time and it got you,
we're not focusing on the dotted line and the people
around you. And you know, when things are moving quickly
and things are becoming successful and things get exciting, everybody
trusts everybody. And I always say, because my divorce lawyers
said it to me, anything can happen in a courtroom,
anything can happen in business. And you gotta also the
(41:00):
harsh truth is you have to start from a place
of not trusting and then let people earn your trust.
But you always have to sleep with one eye open.
It's just the nature of the beast. When you're dealing
with money and success, it's just you gotta be a
tough bitch, I mean, and I think that's you know
an interesting thing because being fifty five and being a
(41:21):
woman in business so long ago, I was treated like
shit as the largest shareholder of a company. Okay, like
don't look here, look up, look at look at look
you know it is right, I'm the one I this
is my idea. And I think that when you have
to remind people to this day, I have partners and
I will not mention who they are. I still have
to remind them. And I'm still the child talking to
(41:44):
a father who's like talking down to him. It still happens,
and you get into that dynamic as a woman. Cheryl
Sandberg talks about that where I still feel like I'm
sometimes Cowtown and then you know, and then I snap,
I'm like, I'm the fucking rainmaker around here. That's what
you're saying. Yeah, you know what I mean. And I
think that the less you say walk away, don't even
engage with these guys. Just let them. They're trying to
(42:07):
get you know, a rise at you walk away. I
just go, Okay, I know I don't have to say
I'm the boss. I don't even have to say it's
my idea. It is my idea. So I get tired
overall and my my my not struggle. But my big
project and discipline is to really stay out of the
weeds and prioritize and organize and execute and delegate. And
(42:31):
I sometimes want off the ride. It sounds like you
just thrive on the ride and you just want to
be in it at all times when you are a true,
tried and true business person like I, I I think I
could partially retire at some point. I don't think you could. Well,
it's funny. I started this um you know, company style
union home and my son and Marlin said to me,
can you just have a hobby, And I'm just like, no,
(42:54):
it is a hobby working to me. Although I've gotten better,
I've taken the work had off. Literally when I come
into the house or when there's no TV downstairs, there's
no one TV in this house. One TV. There's no
phones when we eat dinner. So that that to me.
(43:14):
Because I'll tell you something, Bethany, I have no fear
in business. Business is not going to break my heart.
The only thing that's going to break my heart and
keep me up at night are my kids and my
friends and my family and my sister's business. I can
walk away. Literally, money is like whatever, it's not gonna
give you a high five at night or whatever or
(43:35):
give you a hug. I have no fear when it
comes to business, So I like doing it. I like
the challenge. I like to be Yeah, it doesn't, I
get it. So you've been married twice, you're in a relationship,
and you could be talking about your mistakes or your success.
Is what do you believe is required to have a
quote unquote successful relationship. I have worked really really hard
(43:59):
and this relationship and going into this third relationship so hard.
Is making him a priority? Yep, uh, we we have.
I get it. Great therapy, we um the way we
always talk to each other with dignity and respect. That
is the number one thing. I could be pissed, but
I can still talk to you while I'm angry, so
(44:22):
you can hear me and I'm not talking at someone
at all, and coming from this is how I feel.
Not you did that. No, this is how I said
the same thing. Oh my god, I said the same thing.
You should read and not kitchen sinking this book. Dr Amador,
This guy dr Amador always said that don't start with you.
You said this is how I feel. That's so funny. Yeah,
(44:43):
we do have a lot of similarities, really do. But
my mom was also a therapist. But but I believe
in therapy. She started us in therapy at like I
swear to God one we've been to Shaman's and men
you know all those you know, those big weekend things
called the forum, and we've always done so. But I
think in this particular relationship, this is what I've learned
(45:04):
from the past relationship, what not to do and what
is my priority. I am not my business. I'm a
woman who wants to be in love and treated like
a woman and be and and he's sugarous, and I
think that women think they could only be business and
they have to be that way at home. No, I
(45:26):
take my hat off and I'm Kim. I'm the soft Kim.
I'm out in the world. I'm business Kim. Well, that's
important that you know, I mean, with gender conversations, I
guess it depends upon how you say it, but that
you allow the man in your relationship to be the
man despite you being uh so successful, which has historically
been attributed to male traits. Being strong in a boardroom,
(45:50):
being tough, that's all been attributed to male behavior and
I've had women say to me, you're basically a man now,
and I'm like, no, I'm not. I think I'm a woman.
I'm pretty sure i'm a woman because my ex husband said,
you're just a woman, You're just a man, just as
a just as a woman. And I'm like, why would
you even say that? Exactly, just exactly not aggressive. We're strong, right,
(46:11):
So do you what percentage lucky do you think you are?
And what percentage smart? I get asked that a lot. Uh.
I think luck. I believe in timing. Luck is something
that people say, what what are you lucky? What you
want the lottery? I guess that's lucky. But I believe
(46:32):
I'm really smart and I know what it's timing. Everything
is timing, Everything is absolutely timing beyond. I've heard so
many good ideas that are before their time, like that
I now say that go ahead that I did ten
years ago, but it was just too soon. You have
to know it's like double dutch. You gotta know when
to jump into that jump rope went to jump out
(46:53):
like it's waves. You have to know when to not
get crushed by the set and just let them, you know,
take pick your spot, pick time, because if you go
in and you get crushed, you might not go back
in again. It's happened to me with business when I
was asked to go into Target with my wheat egg
and dairy free cookies, and I just knew I wasn't ready,
and I knew if I went in, I'd burn that bridge.
The same thing with Whole Foods and maybe never be
(47:14):
invited back. So you got to know how to pick
your times jump in but at the right time. Well,
that was a different kind of conversation because it felt
like we were just having a drink, you know, And
it was hard to some as I get anxiety during
a conversation because I'm worried I'm not going to get
to everything. But so anybody listening, that was like sitting
at a restaurant. We have two cocktails and we're just
chatting about our experiences and I could talk to you forever.
(47:36):
So it was really interesting. You have incredible story. Um,
it's so funny the like interconnected things that we have.
And I appreciate your time so much and I wish
you luck with Style Union Home. I know it's already
a success, and your real estate and renovations and just
the continued success as a young woman. It's amazing. You're
the best, Stephany, You're the best. Wow, Kim Gold. Honestly,
(48:05):
we all know what true religion jeans are. And then
to hear that she qualetly sold this business eight or
sixty five million dollars to twenty years ago, it's like
your head will blow up. Which I mean, these entrepreneurs
that you might not have even heard of are just staggering.
I mean, I can't believe all the things I have
in common with these different people that I never even
(48:26):
either knew existed, didn't know anything about or know them,
but didn't know I was anything like. I mean, it
is endless the things that I have in common with
Kim Gold as a boss, as a businesswoman, as a
nice person. So that was fascinating. There's so much to learn.
And you know, she was just grassroots guerrilla marketing, hustling
(48:49):
and struggling and just doing it herself. Her Stacy's pet
to chips I called Stacy turning into Spacey. But you
could do it too. You literally could do it too
nothing with no money, just a little bit of creativity, drive, passion,
hard work and determination and you know, an idea, one idea,
two ideas, many ideas. It doesn't matter. This is amazing.
(49:12):
Thank you so much. Remember to rate her view and subscribe.
And I appreciate you and you're listening, so thank you.
Have a wonderful day. Just Be is hosted an executive
produced by me, Bethany Frankel. Just Be as a production
of Be Real Productions and I Heart Radio. Our Managing
(49:35):
producer is Fiona Smith, and our producer is Stephanie Stender.
Our EP is Morgan Levoy. To catch more moments from
the show, follow us on Instagram and just be with
Bethany
Host
Bethenny Frankel
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