Listen Again: Iliza Shlesinger

We look back at Bethenny's eye-opening conversation with comedian Iliza Shlesinger

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:12):
My guest today is Eliza Schlessinger, comedian and writer. You've
probably seen Eliza's hilarious stand up specials on Netflix or
her movie Good on Paper, So I was really excited
to have a conversation with Eliza and see what she's
like offstage. Today we talk about comedy in the era
of cancel culture, the ups and downs being a comedian,
and so much more. Enjoy Did I meet you in

(00:38):
a comedy club ever? Or no?

Speaker 2 (00:40):
No?

Speaker 1 (00:41):
And you starting Good on Paper which did really well
on Netflix.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
Yeah, I wrote it all came from a general meeting
several years ago. And you know, you don't get very
many yeses, like concrete yeses in this business. And even
when he gave me yes, I was like, okay, and
then hello and behold we made it happen.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
It's amazing. I know, Hi. I mean, I am a
beauty influencer on the side now, as you know, and
it's really on the side, like I have another whole
business that's not that because I don't wear makeup, as
you can see at this time.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
I wrestle with that. I was like, am I putting
on makeup for a podcast? And I've been not doing
it because chances are you and I were both doing
something before this. Also, like I just keep I was connected,
Like what are we doing here? Like? Am I trying
to convince the world that I have like a flawless
Instagram tune face, Like I don't care who's not on
by to see me.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
I have no mad Yeah, I mean I want to
look fresh, and you know, I'll put I might. This
might get posted on social, but I'm out of here.
I don't care either. I'm the same as that way.
I was just saying in a rant that I am
not a vain person, and I would like to be
slightly more vain. So then when shico sideways, I could
at least look at my face and tell myself what's wrong,
because no one else is going to tell me.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
But that's right, no one else will ever say, especially
in La, no one else will ever tell you what's wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:55):
I called my agent. I'm like, am I weird looking?

Speaker 2 (01:57):
Is that what?

Speaker 1 (01:58):
I didn't get it?

Speaker 3 (02:00):
They were like, no, they love you.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
I'm like, oh right, I love but I've seen your
on TikTok or is it Instagram reels? You're like You're like,
I'm calling them, like six second beauty reviews. You're like,
I got this a Walgreens crap. Next thing, I got this,
call me, I have a billion dollars. This is a dollar.
I love it. Next like it's super low fi. I'm like,
I'm sure people are sitting there like writing down.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
I know. No, everyone's like not me at CBS dot
dot dog it's really fun. I enjoy it.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
I didn't know how to do my makeup before January. First,
I decided to learn about it and I just did
this weird thing and now it's a thing. It's like
a thing thing, you know, it's funny. I was talking
to Toe for Grace the other day about like levels
of fame. He's the best levels of fame where you're famous,
but like you still can have a life and you
can go out and you're like, you know, are you niche?
I'm niche? Like, so I was wondering if, like how

(02:50):
famous are you? What is your life in LA? And
let's do LA and then let's do the like the
rest of the country, Like how on a one to
ten if Madonna's a ten or if Tom Cruise is
a ten or Kim Kardashians a ten and your you know,
high school gym teacher is a zero. How famous are
you in your mind? Like with reality, like people coming
on your mind saying or I was saying I saw

(03:12):
your Netflix special or all that stuff.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
I think if you have to ask how famous are you,
it kind of answers the question. And I also think
there's famous within certain groups. You know, like you were
on Real Housewives. But you're a business woman, so that
tends to permeate other circles that a woman with like
a bullshit fashion line may not.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
Well you also, but yeah, you've been in movies, you're
in a Netflix special. So I'm asking you, like a
food fair, if you go to a mall, are you
going to be bothered or you can have boence.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
It Bothered isn't the word, but you know, people come
up to you.

Speaker 2 (03:46):
I mean, I'm not gonna list off like in the
past twenty four hours, who all?

Speaker 3 (03:50):
But it's usually like it's usually.

Speaker 2 (03:52):
A girl will just be like are you and I'll
be like.

Speaker 3 (03:55):
It's me and then they get excited, or a.

Speaker 2 (03:57):
Dude will be like, oh do you know the three
other male comics? Awzoom. It happens, but you have to
be at a serious level of fame for it to
actually be a hassle like right, and and there are
people that call like paparazzo in themselves.

Speaker 3 (04:13):
It's never been a bother.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
Has it been creepy at times, sure, but it's never
like please my family and I just want to eat
at all of garden and privacy. Please.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
So it's a nice level. So you have a nice
like it's a little sizzle, but you could have your
own life and have be annoyed if you're walking through
an airport.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
Yeah, there's no annoyance because also, I don't know, I
think people forget in this day and age, like especially
as a stand up as a performer, like you have
nothing without your fans. This isn't based on anything else.
This isn't like you put money in.

Speaker 3 (04:42):
The market and that's what did it.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
Like you should be respectful of the fact that these
people take time and money out of their lives to
support your selfish art.

Speaker 3 (04:50):
You know, so I always you always give them time
to day.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
Absolutely, Why did you say selfish art?

Speaker 2 (04:55):
Because stand up is this your if you're a performer,
you know this comes from a place like hey, I
need you to look at me and hear what I'm
saying it's not like I'm a doctor or I'm doing
humanitarian aide. Okay, no, Like at the end of the night,
it's stand up.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
So do you feel like you're a comedian first and
foremost and that was what you wanted to be or
you wanted you saw the whole board and you wanted
to do that, and you wanted to write, and you
wanted to be in movies, Like what was the trajectory
in your mind?

Speaker 2 (05:23):
I was always going to be funny for a living.
And when you grow up somewhere like Dallas, Texas, like
there's no trajectory because there's no path. It's like, oh,
I'll just be on Saturday Night Live like everybody right,
unaware of all the avenues, you know. And of course
the Internet didn't exist back then, which is so I'm
loath to say. And so when I started doing stand

(05:44):
up that I got the most energy from doing it
that way. And then you know, you audition for stuff,
but there are people who put in ten thousand hours
and really work at auditioning, and I'm putting in that
time and stand up and it's leading to its own thing.
So I always wanted to be funny for a living.
And sometimes that's in stand up, sometimes it's in a movie,
sometimes it's in writing. You know, as an artist, you

(06:05):
just want to keep creating and affecting people. And I
don't I don't know that our world allows for that
understanding sometimes.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
But yeah, and your trajectory was getting up on stage
in Dallas, like open mic nights and.

Speaker 2 (06:16):
Taking no no. I went to school in Boston and
I went to film school like everybody else, like every
intern in your office. And I got to LA and
I started doing it there. And I started, like two
thousand and five with a like with a real job,
Like I had an office job. I was someone's terrible assistant.
But this is something you know, you talk about side
hustles that I would go and do at night. And

(06:38):
then one day I called my mom and I said
I need to borrow one thousand dollars so I can
purchase a computer and I'm going to try this full time.
And it worked out, and so here we are at
thirty nine.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
So you got the hit, you liked it, and you
started doing it like every just going every night and
then traveling and then doing that whole circuit.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
Yeah, I mean, there is no so people always ask
advice like it's you got to just do it. It's
not unlike being an entrepreneur like you have to or
being a bodybuilder, like you have to just do it.

Speaker 1 (07:09):
It's being a it's being somebody who's in a kitchen
actually because you have to make a recipe, screw it
up and again, like you have to keep going. It's
repetition and keep going through and trying different ways. It's interesting,
my head is.

Speaker 2 (07:19):
A chef and it's and you know, so there is
there's my husband's chef. So we initially bonded over the
fact that we both you know, work at night, but
there is I don't think people understand when you're building
something like it is something that you it wakes you
up at night.

Speaker 3 (07:32):
You love it so much even when it's the most painful,
and you.

Speaker 2 (07:35):
Just keep going. And it's not even about if people
encourage you or they're shitty to you. It's only what
matters is the voice in your head and just going
and taking every opportunity. And and then when you get
rejected writing a movie and you're off time writing a.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
Book, well it's funny because I don't know if everybody
listening realizes how insanely competitive and crowded. It is because
I've met so much any successful comedians, whether it's Kim
Whitley or Charad Small's or you know a lot of
people who have popped off, but not like you know
to like Robin Williams level. I mean, I know Kevin Neelan,

(08:14):
I know Chris Rock. For some reason, I know a
lot of the comedy people I'm attracted to that I
took classes in Groundlings. I know Amy Schumer. Like I
don't know why I've always gravitated towards the comedy space.
I mean probably because as a kid, I was watching
you know, Eddie Murphy and watching Richard Pryor, and I
said I'll go up and do stand up, which was
like why did I just say that out loud? And

(08:35):
I did it at New York Comedy Club ten days later.
After calling some of these people that I told you about,
like Bridge it Ever, calling Kathy Griffin, I called every
ellen to ask like what tips everybody had, and each
person had very different tips, like no two were the same,
and it was like I was crowdsourcing to figure out
how I would do it. I think it was Kim
Whitley or Kevin. I think it was Kim Whitley who

(08:57):
decided or asked me, like what was my style? Like
she was like or Kevin might have asked that, but
she said, you're you rant, like you just are aggravated
about something. You need to say it. And then and
we were talking. I was talking to Kevin Neale about
how he is more like it's a long story that
just keeps going on and that builds up, and so

(09:18):
I had never thought of that. I wanted to say,
like a what is your style? And second of all,
I didn't get I did fairly like people laughed. It
wasn't a bomb at all like it was once at
ten I was probably six, you know, like zero being
no one laughing to ten like being caughugh like crazy
raucous laughter. But I didn't get any sort of like, wow,
I'd survived that and that was good, and I would

(09:39):
want to I need to do that again. I didn't
have that. For some reason. I felt that it was
like that's a lot obviously to be sitting there and
like your goal is to get fed from these people,
and if they don't feed you, like you're hungry or
like you didn't get what you needed and I found
that to be really interesting. I want to know what
you think about that, and that like that thought that

(10:00):
I felt.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
There's a couple of things. You know, you built up
a reputation, you have a brand. I want to make
sure that everybody who comes to my show they're always
leading uplifted, even though we're calling out some major inconvenient
truths about our society and things like that. And you know,
I also like to get into the idea that we
tend to get angry when women have a very strong opinion.

(10:22):
We only call women bossy or opinionated, you know, And
I reject all of that. I'm like, you've got something
to say, you back it up with intelligence and comedy,
and men will want to listen to that as well.
And so that's what my stand up is. You know,
there are rants at times. It comes from a very
specific point of view. I think it's its own unique
thing and it's hyper energetic. The feedback that I get

(10:46):
is it's less about how I see it, more about
people see it. People leave feeling seen, and I think
I do stand up to feel seen and feel heard.
And I always kind of want to take up for
people who maybe don't feel they have the license to
say something. You always have to wrap your agenda with humor,
any lessons, any morals, because I think the stakes are
too high in our society to not be saying something.
When you have a microphone and say, thirty five hundred

(11:08):
people and an arena in Ottawa, you've got to say something.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
Does it feel strange to you? Like it's funny? Because
I saw Amy Schumer in the Hampton's at this bizarre
event that I was texting her about afterwards because it
was crazy and I can't believe some of the situations
you guys get yourselves into where you have to perform.
She's performing effectively on an airstrip, like with air like
at an airport in the in the woods.

Speaker 2 (11:30):
So she probably got so much money. I have played.
I do a lot of shows for our troops, so
like I've done a lot of USO. So that is
it's three in the afternoon, you are playing for one
hundred troops plus the Afghan troops on a deck at
a fob and the sun is hot. You are playing.
I shot Elder Millennial, one of my specials on an

(11:50):
aircraft carrier. I did me and end up in Kathy
Hilton's backyard recently, like the check clears, we go no, no.

Speaker 1 (11:58):
No, I exactly and I just I texted, I can't
imagine there has to be if you didn't get paid X,
I said, it wasn't worth it. They were moving pieces
of large pieces of furniture in front of me while
she's performing, like fifty fifty miles away. They put us
so far from her that if I was on fire,
Amy Schumer wouldn't have been able to see me so

(12:18):
much less hear my laughter. Like let's put the comedian
on an eye light there. They can't hear us laugh
or engage, and an.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
Air respect given to stand up. It's basically like at
an event, they're like, we'll do the eulogy and then
we'll put up the comedian, right, Like it doesn't even
matter how famous you are, or if you're a man
or a woman. I did a corporate event one time.
I don't remember the name of the company. It was
some company that you've never heard of. It was in Vegas,
and it was so much money, and it was all
the different branches of the company from all over the world.

(12:48):
And I'm up there and I start talking and a
band just starts playing over me, and I was like,
you know what, it's your time and whatever you guys want,
let's get the show started. Like you can't could all
these things. You're just like, I mean, you there some gigs,
it's just you kind of go on autopilot. You're like,
I'm gonna hit my marks, I'm gonna finish these jokes.
I might do some crowd work, and time is up.

(13:10):
I will see you at the bank and.

Speaker 1 (13:12):
Thick Skin piece out. Don't give a good fuck even
if these five because people thought you sucked, because you
set up so for failure.

Speaker 3 (13:19):
I guarantee it's not even that you suck. It's that
they didn't even know you were there or we have
Oh that's better.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
Well, you always have to remember to never negate the
fact that there are people who can hear you, who.

Speaker 3 (13:29):
Are having fun, and so what you don't want to
do is be like this suck.

Speaker 2 (13:32):
You guys are listening because the twenty people in front
are like, don't we count you? Know?

Speaker 3 (13:37):
So again, it's all about user experience.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
I want the audience to have from the playlist I
put together to the last meet and greet, like I
want people to know that I respect their money and
their time, and that we're putting on a real show.
I put on like I don't ever drink before a show.
I come out there. I do my full time. A
lot of comics, don't you know, Or it's a hassle.
I never want people to feel that I don't respect

(14:01):
that they've made that effort, you know.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
Yeah, and are you able to turn it off? Or
all day? Anything that's funny gets written down in that book.
Anything all day that it's funny that you think about,
you have to write it down because it's part Yeah, but.

Speaker 2 (14:11):
It's not this like compulsory thing where you're just like,
I'm sorry, mister president, please, I need to write this
thing down about it? Right? No, I do you have it?
You know, you've got little bits of paper, You've got thoughts,
and sometimes it goes in the iPhone and then there
are weeks that go by where nothing gets written down.

Speaker 3 (14:26):
Like I'm a big believer in like periods of intake.

Speaker 2 (14:30):
Sometimes you just have to exist as an entity on
this planet and just if it hits you, yeah, let
it breathe or just be a person. It's gonna I mean,
I go up enough that like you're always working on something.
I do all my writing on stage. I don't sit
it a computer and write it out.

Speaker 1 (14:46):
So wait, what does that mean?

Speaker 3 (14:48):
Like I write jokes, I write them as I say them.

Speaker 2 (14:51):
I go on stage and I just talk about a thing,
or I'll think of a tag, or I'll improvise off
of that, and then I'll remember what I said and
that becomes the act. I don't sit it a computer
and think like what would be funny and write it out.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
Right right right? That makes sense. That makes sense. You're
like free associating and improvising and then you structure it afterwards.

Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah, I mean you have jokes and you know, but
that's like I was saying, like every joke is a
little different each time, and sometimes an audience give you something,
sometimes they don't, and I believe what works always stick,
so it's all completely memorized. Nothing's written down. That's what.

Speaker 1 (15:24):
Well, what I think is interesting is when I was
doing this that one time, and it's something I've always
wanted to do, like it was just something that bothered
me because I'm not the person that wants to do
something and then is afraid to do it. So that
was part of the reason that I did it, and
everyone said, oh, I'd be great at that, or I
want to do that like every person. It's real and
it's that that would be irritating if I were you

(15:45):
know what I mean, because my Matt Klarberg and Barry Clarberg,
my business managers at the time, are like, oh, yeah, no,
i'd be great. Everyone says i'd be great. Because then
when I teach my class, I'm like, okay, so get
up if I can do it too.

Speaker 3 (15:55):
Like that week, it's always i'd be great at that.

Speaker 1 (15:59):
Yeah, because you did amitst for speech that was good
last year and frankly only four of the jokes were good.
But and that week I had a week of being
you because that one week I was like, well, I'm
the one is gonna fucking get up in the real
comedy club in a pandemic when people are six feet
away in masks and there only were allowed to be
fifteen people the first day they opened up at the
New York Comedy Club, and so get up too. Make

(16:19):
me feel better because then I'll feel like because they
made it like what I was doing that week wasn't
a thing. So I thought that was interesting but more
important than my stupid experience that everyone thinks they could
do it and forget whether someone could be good or not.
But why is everyone afraid to stand up? And like
why is it so scary? What is so scary? If
one make fools themselves every day? Like why is that

(16:41):
so scary? Why is it dying? As easy? Comedy as hard?

Speaker 2 (16:44):
Public speaking? Obviously everyone knows is like the number one fear.
Nobody wants to be ridiculed, nobody wants to be judged,
nobody wants to be laughed at in a bad way,
nobody wants to be embarrassed, and nobody wants to be vulnerable.
It is an incredibly vulnerable thing. And so it's like
laying all of your fears and insecurities bear, And the
beauty of it is saying, please laugh at me, because

(17:05):
when they are laughing with you.

Speaker 3 (17:07):
I always say that people laugh at something for two reasons.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
Either they totally get it and they feel you or
they're like, that's so weird, what are you talking about?
And I always I believe that the comedy God's reward vulnerability.
The more honest you are about your experience without trying
to look cute or clever, like, the more just gut
wrenchingly honest you are. That's what people women in particular, like,
that's what people resonate with. That's when someone says, oh

(17:32):
my god, because stand up is meant to be consumed
in the dark with alcohol, because it's this like delicious,
revealing sort of sadistic thing. And when someone gets up
there and they come into the light, there's a reason
the audience is in the dark, and they bear their soul.
They say something like, I'm getting ready for a date.
I have to shave my big toe because I'm wearing sandals.

Speaker 3 (17:53):
Every woman in that.

Speaker 2 (17:53):
Audience is like, oh my god, I do it too, especially,
and I talk about this a lot in my New
Hour especially. There's so much shame around being a woman,
and so much we don't tell each other, and not
because we're mean, but because we've been taught to be embarrassed.
So when another girl gets up there and says something honest,
you get to feel seen as a woman. When you

(18:14):
know that someone else has gone what you've gone through,
what you've gone through, it is incredibly uplifting. And we
all look for reflections of ourselves in media in other people,
and some people it's the most impactful with a comic.

Speaker 1 (18:27):
But what you said translates so much further than just
in comedy that if you're just vulnerable and honest, you know,
without it being canned. And I think a lot of
times now in social media, people are trying to be
so honest in a way that is designed for people
to feel like sorry for them. And I think that's
different than what you're saying. You're saying just truly.

Speaker 3 (18:47):
I thought authenticity, you know exactly.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
I also think and commitment, like I remember or I've seen,
you know, when you see kids do a talent show
or something like a second I gotta start again, like
we start again, like I wasn't any or like it's
that it's Cameron Diaz in that movie in my best
friend's wedding, when she was the worst at the karaoke
but she just committed. I think commitment gets you.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
A really think. I think it also helps to look
like Cameron Diaz, Like people were like, oh, you accidentally
ran me over.

Speaker 3 (19:14):
It's okay, you're stunning.

Speaker 1 (19:16):
Right, No, but no, look, Amy Schumer's beautiful, but Diaz
was a model. But Amy Schumer committed in the movie
that movie was it? What was I feel pretty. When
she got up in that strip tease, she committed. She
was a disaster, but she committed. I'm saying, I think
commitment in comedy and in life goes a long way
being just like dedicated to what you're doing.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
Well.

Speaker 1 (19:47):
People are being so people are being similar to that
on social media though, which is why I find it interesting,
Like people, Oh, is it being so that people? It's
so immediate, so raw, like because you're saying right, then
you're exposed and it's so vulnerunerable. And other places people
will just say something and then walk away from it
because it's not so like the person's not right in

(20:08):
front of you, not laughing. That's what I'm saying, Like
it's so just, it's so like there's no middleman. You're
not just putting it up somewhere, you're not posting it.
It's not in a movie. It's you and the audience.

Speaker 2 (20:17):
There's no literally no filter, like there's literally and you
know that's why there's different social media too, Like Instagram
is very different than TikTok, which is hyper raw, hyper honest,
and they want that experience that generation does because I
just obsessively watch both. But that's why you know, people
are very brave in a comment section, people are very brave.

(20:39):
It's very easy to come out and call someone a
name or say they did something wrong. It's very easy
to do.

Speaker 3 (20:44):
That behind the anonimity of a handle.

Speaker 2 (20:46):
So that's why you can't really argue with the comment section,
because who the fuck is that person? And for better
or for worse, stand up comics have the guts to
say what they want to say and stand there in
front of strangers, and and you take that risk because
you know that what you have to say, at least
for me, there's an honesty and a beauty behind it,
and you're coming from a good place.

Speaker 1 (21:06):
Well, let's talk about comedy that lands and doesn't. And
that could be the difference between cancelation and not. I mean,
by many other people's definitions, Dave Chappelle would have been
canceled ten times because of the things that he is
capable of saying, because he's such a wordsmith and a
craftsman and just like probably that to me is probably

(21:26):
the best ever. He's like amazing male comedian, even rivaling
Eddie Murphy and and Richard Dreyfus. But other people, you know,
Michael Richards, will be in you know, in a comedy
club and say something and be canceled forever.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
These are two very different things. I mean, just in
case your audience doesn't know, referring to when Michael Richards,
who played Kramer couldn't handle a heckle, was at the
laugh Factory, so I know what that crowd is, and
he just went on a racist ran.

Speaker 3 (21:54):
He just kept saying and weord over and over.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
You can say things that are UNPC, but make sure
it's funny.

Speaker 3 (22:01):
He wasn't saying a joke like you may as well
just be on the street.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
So that's and that happens like that was just pure
You lost your cool.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
I understand what you're saying. It wasn't part of an
act that bombed. It wasn't part of it was a
just a criticism. That's a great that's a great note.
So Dave Chappelle is saying things within a context and
crafting a story.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
And look, he gets faulted for saying things too. People
get outraged. People are very protective over what they are everybody.
Nobody has a problem laughing at everyone else. But when
it's about you, oh it's about women, or it's about
my ethnic group or my religion. Then people get very barbed,
and I understand that without getting into specifically what Dave said.
You know, I have my own thoughts about trans jokes,
and I put them up there with oven jokes, like

(22:44):
I don't like them. I don't do them. I don't
think they're funny. That being said, if you got a
good one, okay, But I always look at intention and context,
you know, And I think we go around getting very
upset without watching, without understanding those things, and people getting
canceled up and right the market dictates, right the market.

Speaker 1 (23:04):
It's exactly what I've said things right now that a
year ago I would have gotten destroyed, for I did
get destroyed, and then said the same thing a year later.
Timing the tides where people are, I think we're coming
out of a time of hyper hyper sensitivity and entering
a time of truth right now. I feel like there's
a lot of truth telling right now, and people would
rather see warts and all and unfiltered than saccer and

(23:27):
fear based bullshit.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
I think it's then I gotta be like I believe
in and overcorrect. So I'm okay with what has happened,
because for so long it was just so unacceptable the
way women were treated conversation about people of color, things
like that get like certain words and slurs.

Speaker 3 (23:43):
I like these people that we have a voice.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
It was heard. But now as we come back to
something in the middle, you know this outrage culture, you
always have to look at who is outraged. And I
always joke because I was going to make a TikTok
about this, and I talked about this. I did a
Netflix taping. White people are always trying to outwoke each other,
hoping that like a black person will be like, wow,
she gets it.

Speaker 3 (24:07):
They're not gonna You're not gonna get a gold star.

Speaker 2 (24:09):
So you, as a white woman flipping the fuck out
about being anti racist on another white woman, it's just
do the work, do the real voting, have the real conversations.
But a lot of it I call it performative ethics.
And this is not just white women. I'm just giving
you an example. It's rarely about correction and education, and
it's always about burning someone and canceling someone.

Speaker 3 (24:31):
It would be delicious. I sa one of your followers
to find.

Speaker 2 (24:34):
You and be like Jethany Frankel said this about so
and so, let's watch her burn versus.

Speaker 3 (24:39):
Privately dming you like, hey, Bethany, you said this one thing.

Speaker 2 (24:41):
I just want to let you know this affects these people,
but nobody does that.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
Just say sorry, Everyone say I'm sorry, I fucked up,
I did something wrong.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
Tell me this isn't wrong. But also, by the way,
you notice, none of this is happening in a real space.
This is all happening on like web free, like this
is all happening in the comment section of an app.
Nobody has the balls to see this person and say
something to them in person because people are gutless and
bored and on the toilet. That's what this is. It's

(25:11):
easy to try to cancel someone because well I didn't.

Speaker 3 (25:13):
Like her and she offended me this one time, so
she should burn because people are unhappy people.

Speaker 1 (25:19):
It's shot and fried. I agree if i'm I want
to be doing that? Yeah, I agree, And they wait.
And it's like a host and parasites that when something
you do something wrong, all the parasites like flee to
the host to like suck off the blood and literally
the moment.

Speaker 3 (25:35):
All you have to do is either give it no
oxygen or post something else, and the angry mob will
pick up their pitchforks and they will go try to
eat each other.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
Yes, there's a timing to it, because you can poke
the bear, but there is like, yeah, yeah, you have to.
You have to let it fucking breathe for a second too.
It's it's insane when happens and you think it's real
and it's usually not real, and brands are scared and
it gets to be this crazy thing. But so how
much what percentage of your life in creativity are you
a little afraid? Like how much do you have to

(26:05):
hold back? There's no way I can't speak for you.
You saying every single thing that comes to your mind.
You say it, no, no.

Speaker 2 (26:12):
But I do. I think it's not even about I'm
not good at maths, So it's not about quantifying as
much as when I have a thought, like what's the
kernel of that thought? And then how do we contextualize
it so that what I'm saying can have can be
misconstrued the least you know, what's the right way to
do this?

Speaker 3 (26:30):
Who do we talk to in this joke? What words
do we choose?

Speaker 2 (26:34):
And that is when we get to the craft of
stand up and of comedy, whether it's comedy writing too
versus just being the funny friend because I'm not a
fan of like, oh.

Speaker 3 (26:43):
I have no filter. I just say whatever.

Speaker 2 (26:45):
It's like, No, this is a crap, Like there's a
reason you laugh at a joke and it's not an accident.
It was the words chosen, the numbers chosen, Like there
is an alchemy to this.

Speaker 1 (26:55):
No, yeah, of course.

Speaker 2 (26:56):
And so when you're making these points, you know, you
can make a slop people of point where you can
really hone in, Like the bad pitch is what I
was talking about with the woke stuff. I'm like, it's
a woke off. It's about being scared that you will
be called racist. Sometimes it's not even about doing the work.
It's just nobody wants to look bad, you know. So
just being specific with your words, well that's.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
By the way, in every business meeting, in every deal,
the truth is I have said things that could easily
be said in another way. You just didn't catch it.
You just you could get the same exact point across.
And not everything needs to be said. Sometimes something's just
bugging me, and I know I'm going to get slapped
a little for it, but I want to say it.
But how am I going to say it, you know,
so I think that's important too.

Speaker 2 (27:38):
It's also you know, you're a woman, so whatever you
say or don't say, cannon will be used against you.
And so look, you take in all the stuff I
write about this endlessly. You can't let it drive you crazy.
You know. People could look at this conversation and be like,
they're two women. They're talking too fast. You know. At
the end of the day, we all just do our best,
and we all forget that other people are doing their

(27:59):
best and we're judging them. And so it really is like,
how do you just like feel okay about yourself when
you're not being told by others you're doing a good job.
I don't have that answer. I feel bad a lot
of times, but you just do it your best, you know.

Speaker 1 (28:13):
Well, yeah, in the words of Kathy Griffin, you can't
be who you're not. But social media you nodded when
I said it's not for therapy. Have you noticed what
I've noticed. We've see people really emoting and I'm going
through a really hard time right now, Like this is
the worst it's ever been. This is my low and
I'm like, why are you, like you're calling me when

(28:34):
this is your low. We don't know each of them.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
I think there is that vulnerability and like I can't
talk to the people around me, so I'm just gonna
share with strangers because there is that lighter side where
like strangers will give you that positivity.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
Your mother's gonna that's dangerous. That's a dangerous game.

Speaker 2 (28:50):
What's dangerous also is and I talk about this. I
have a chapter in a book called everything is a Scam.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
Oh my god, I say all the time, everything's a scam.
That's that's always saying it's a scam.

Speaker 2 (29:00):
It's you're a New Yorker and I'm from New York,
but I'm really but I was raised in Dallas, Texas,
but I have that very East Coast everything's a scam.
I just had to talk to an assistant who bought
me travel insurance. I'm like, what is this eight hundred
dollars and she was like, I didn't know. I'm like,
you're just a baby. It's a scam. You know, we
all want to help. I actually donated a lot to
your charity because you were doing a lot of like

(29:21):
boots on the groundwork in Ukraine. So I reposted your
charity because like I don't know you, but I was like,
I know her, I trust her. So I did, but
I was like, I know that's not a scam. But
a lot of times people post and like your heart,
your heart hurts, and you're like, I want to help,
And then you're like, how do I know this person's real?

Speaker 3 (29:38):
How do I know this is going to the right thing?

Speaker 2 (29:40):
How do I know this is not a bullshit charity?
And so people are constantly reaching out and you're like,
it's not that I don't want to help you, it's
that I think you might be lying to me. And
it love that.

Speaker 1 (29:51):
You're saying that, because I love that you're saying that,
because in in philanthropy it is the most scam ridden
place ever and it's a lot of celebrities posting links
directing to other people that are controlling the entire charity,
and they just post the link because it looks like
you're the cue picture of a koala with oil on it,
you know, from a spill.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
Then you get dinged, you know, you get dinged for
how you participate and how you don't. So I post something,
I'm like, you know, help the people of let's say Ukraine.
Oh my god, So you don't care about these and
these people. Oh you didn't do this, and you're just
like or man, you do still have a business. I
have a platform to talk about this because of comedy,
So we do have to get back to that. So

(30:29):
you post postpos in the next day, it's like, where's
your posting about that?

Speaker 1 (30:33):
By the way, beyond like it makes us all have
to be doing what we think we're supposed to be doing, right,
versus what we're actually passionate about doing. Like I on
the same day, let's say a week, I could raise
a million dollars in a week with Ukraine, but also
put on hair and makeup and eyelashes and sit down
and do this podcast and also do something bank some

(30:54):
superficial content. Now, I mean I post the superficial content
that I'm banking because I know that that's like uote
unquote tone death. But why I'm a mother and I work,
I am, I have air mez bags and I send
relief to Ukraine.

Speaker 3 (31:08):
Right, It's not like it's.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
Not like you're live streaming yourself from a funeral. Like
you have a sense of decorm and you are a
multifaceted person. Moreover, this is what is required of us
in order to have the platform so that we can
be judged, and so I would take it with a
grain of salt, you know. And I usually it's ignore
those people. But I even talk about it in my
book How It's Why you can't live for other people.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
Now facts, because the truth is I talked about the
luxury giveaway scams with and it was the week that
the Ukraine War broke out, and for me, I was
looking at Ukraine. So when I saw the Kim Kardashian
million dollars in air mez and Gucci boxes, I was like,
what the fuck? But she's doing what she does. She
got paid probably a million dollars or twenty million dollars

(31:52):
and she's doing what she did.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
I am in Ukraine.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
Not to pile on. I do think that family could
stand to do a little bit more public facing, but they.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
Could be it's for the reason that it's bullshit.

Speaker 2 (32:03):
And by the way, I don't know. They could be
donating millions of dollars to help the seat turtles, and
I have no idea. I doubt it.

Speaker 3 (32:10):
You tend to know those things.

Speaker 2 (32:11):
I don't know. People who have a lot of money
tend to be very quiet about how they donate these
things because then everyone wants their money.

Speaker 3 (32:17):
I am here in Martha's vinyard. I am seeing that everywhere.

Speaker 2 (32:20):
So I guess at the end of the day, the
lesson is, if you want to hate someone, do it
privately from a burner Instagram account and just wash them
at night, gnawing on your knuckles like I do. But
at the end of the day, you just don't know
if someone's evil or you just you don't know what
they're doing.

Speaker 1 (32:36):
Yeah, but I think it goes back to that whole
theme of you figuring out how to say things, and
in order to do what you do and still have

(32:57):
a career, you have to figure out how the delivery
is going to be.

Speaker 2 (33:01):
I also think, you know, there's the way that you
say it, and then our audiences are very afraid now,
so there's certain buzzwords that you say, like I said Israel.
I don't remember what I was talking about. I said Israel,
and the crowd went silent, and I called them out.
I was like, oh, so we can't even say the
word Israel because you've been taught to answer if you
say black, Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (33:19):
I'm like so we can't say the color black.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
There is a beauty in calling it out and people realize,
oh my god, my sphincter was clenched, and then we
can all come together.

Speaker 3 (33:30):
So there are levels to it.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
You know, it's not about it you're walking into a landmine.
Sometimes you don't know. For example, I'm I'm. I talked
very publicly about the Kardashians. I wanted you for a
long time. I will even use the word I was
afraid to do it. I was cautious about doing it.
And the pinata opened up and the candy came out,
and I was shocked. You'll be shocked with no backlash.

(33:52):
Think about the reach, Think about the followers, and a
lot of them are brought. I was shocked that not
a single no one came in one out of ten
thousand comments would be like, oh, women not supporting women,
but nobody was having a problem with it. And if
I said anything about when I've said anything about anybody else,
people come. I thought that was interesting, right.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
What I always bothers me about the women not supporting
women comment is it reduces us down to a simple
gender and it takes away our complexity.

Speaker 3 (34:19):
And so yeah, a lot of times it is you
know you should.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
I don't believe in blindly supporting someone based on their chromosomes.
But I also don't believe. Yeah, I agree with you,
but I also I don't believe on hurting them because
of it. I'm a competitive person. I want to I
want to do better than that man and that woman.
I've never seen that as gender. So when someone's like
you didn't support a woman, I'm like, was she funny?

Speaker 3 (34:40):
Why would I support a person?

Speaker 1 (34:41):
But what if you don't support that? And I support
that woman of course, But yeah, I do not support
all women.

Speaker 3 (34:48):
You support all people.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
Someone else dogs you're not.

Speaker 2 (34:53):
Some are too wiry, But I think you know.

Speaker 3 (34:56):
I was actually thinking about this the other day.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
My friend Rebecca Sir is like a New York Times
best selling author. She writes sort of like young young adult,
like romantic not even not a younger, there's like romantic fiction.
It's really fun and she does really well. And I
always see her books because I'm always in an airport.
I wouls se her books and I actually get very
proud and excited, Like there is nothing like when you're

(35:19):
a woman and you have a friend that you genuinely
only want to see succeed and you actually are their
cheerleader versus And I talk about this in my new hour,
this glitterized pro girl No so girl girl bough.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
I was like, I'm not a girl bough. What does
that even mean? I don't like this, Like.

Speaker 2 (35:39):
It's all it's all this like weak hand job, like
look empowering women. No, you know what empowers women, equal pay, education,
pay gap closing, and so there is something too. You know,
we are called upon to like blindly just like love
all of our mama's sister bears. And it's like we
all have those women in our lives that we love
and just cannot wait to see and it's so fun

(36:01):
to watch that. And that's what real strength feels like.
And you don't have a ton of that, and that
has nothing to do with who you are. It's just
not everybody is quality and not everybody is worth championing,
and you can't spend time.

Speaker 1 (36:13):
Yeah, I'm fine saying I do not. I support the
women and men that I support, and that's my own
body idea.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
Of male comics.

Speaker 3 (36:21):
Ask me for help, and I'm like, I can't do it.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
I don't believe in your comedy.

Speaker 1 (36:25):
No, I agree, and you and I very much would
go on for days about this, but we both are
the same. Whatever someone says, what's it been like being
in business as a woman, And I'm not saying I
and I know I'm white and I know I'm privileged.
I'm saying that I've had to deconstruct it thinking about
how men have man explained me. But I never knew
that word, and I never even knew what it meant.

(36:47):
I had to recently, since I'm asked the question a
thousand times. I thought to myself, what And then when
a guy talks to me like I'm a junior player,
even though we're in the same position, it's something we've
been trained to just accept and don't realize that like
that's been happened forever, even if it's not so overt.
But when asked that question, I was like, I never
thought about being a woman or a man. I just
cloud through and I'm a strong woman, like I'm a

(37:10):
strong person. I'm a strong business person. I agree, I
can take on any man in any arena. I don't
care if I'm a woman or a man. That's just me.
It doesn't mean that there are.

Speaker 3 (37:18):
No I don't think it's just I think this is something.

Speaker 2 (37:22):
I mean, I feel the exact same way, which is
why I've been trying to be friends with you for
a very long time. Fine, And I was talking to
my mom about it. You know, there is this premium
we placed now on the female struggle. Like my mom
was a single mom and she and I'll tell you what,
my mom was a single mom for a period and
I never and I'm a very strong minded individual, we

(37:42):
never the word feminism has never come up, had never
come up my entire It just wasn't talked about in
the nineties. But moreover, I never heard my mother say
anything like any of this, like raw raw feminism, go girl,
any of that stuff. She just did because when you're
actually working and surviving and doing things, you don't have

(38:03):
time to talk about.

Speaker 1 (38:04):
Mom's not a bumper sticker, You're just exactly it's yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
So she's just like she's a New Yorker. She's very blunt,
you know, she's very like, not in like a rude way,
just she's just touch. She just gets it. And that's
how I am. And it's only when I got into comedy,
and it's only in La and it isn't show business
that you have to answer for the way that you
always were. How did you get into comedy? Were you
a funny woman woman in comedy? I'm like, I just

(38:30):
did it because no one said I couldn't and no
one said I could, and I didn't think about it,
and I just went. And now I have to contextualize
it like I'm some fierce diva.

Speaker 1 (38:38):
That's exactly, that's exactly, and that's a genius. Because I
entered into cocktails. I didn't fucking know anything. I walked
into a store and saw a thousand I was like,
why am I doing this now? I didn't know there
was no localorie. I didn't know there was no nothing
for I didn't know liquor was run by men. I
never know.

Speaker 2 (38:53):
You didn't know what you didn't know, which is a gift, right,
Like I never mattered enough to anyone for anyone to
tell me I sucked, and I never mattered enough for
anyone to say, go do it. My mom was super cool,
but like, and I think when that is just something
you're born with, Like you're like, I'm just gonna go,
I'm just gonna work, it's gonna do it.

Speaker 1 (39:12):
Yes, but also it's funny that you just said you
didn't matter, right, did you have a mentor? What's a mentor?
I didn't know what a mentor was. I would know
to look for a mentor, and no one woul want
to mentor me. It was like, that's lingo that we
make up to frame what's happened. That's exactly what you
just said. That's exactly it. Analle's just to come up
with the best idea, best thing to say about female
work life balance. I don't fucking know. I do everything

(39:34):
I do wear very well. That's all I know in
the moment.

Speaker 2 (39:36):
That not only that, I mean, that's a skill in
of itself, like stand up is it's a solo sport
if you're a writer, like if you're on a.

Speaker 3 (39:44):
TV show, going to be with people, if you're an actor.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
But like, it is you in the Delta lounge, if
you're lucky, it is you on a regional flight, it
is you in a hotel, and you you know, and
you have a community, you've got the friends. But when
I started there, I didn't know anyone. No, and I'm
not saying this out of bitterness. There was no woman
who like reached out to me to be like, I
want to help you. It is a competitive we say, no,

(40:06):
what I mean, it happens, But you're on your own
on a regional flight in Regina, Saskatchewan.

Speaker 3 (40:13):
How is someone going to reach you? Like you're no,
you're doing it.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
No, and you're alone. And when you bomb alone, you bomb,
you bomb.

Speaker 2 (40:19):
Alone, you die, you die alone. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:22):
No, but it's true when I when you sign, I say,
when you sign the paper, it's your name. There's all
these other people around here and they have all these
decisions they want to make. But I'm always like, it's
my fucking ass. I'm alone, and you're alone on a
plane and on the stage.

Speaker 2 (40:34):
It's funny you say that. Like I was talking with
my team, you know, we were talking about a show
and there was an issue with ticketing and it was
not my fault, but people don't see that. They see
it as your fault. Like Wise, in the stuff working,
I'm like, we pay a heavy fee. You do too
for this link And I was explaining to them there
was a show I wanted to cancel. I was like,
we've moved this now twice. I look bad, not my team,

(40:56):
not anyone, I as the artist. People get angry at me.
I can't have that. Yeah, people don't think about this
is your blood, sweat, Deer's a reputation. And you know,
if if people don't expect a quality product, then what
do you have you have?

Speaker 1 (41:09):
No, it's so exactly it's your out, I'm saying, And
I give him a lot of shit. But Kylie Jenner
had this like bathing suit where someone's whole entire vagina
was sticking up. I highly doubt she was in China
sewing the bathing suit, but you know, it's her name
and it's her vagina on the line, But it's not
technically her that sowed the bathing suits for sure.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
But wouldn't it be delicious to watch someone like that crumble?
I mean, that's the whole ethos of our society exactly.

Speaker 3 (41:33):
You know, people would love to see you knock down.

Speaker 2 (41:36):
People would love I mean, I look, I have not
watched Real Housewives in over a decade, but when I
did watch it, even before you were at the height
you're at now, I remember thinking, I remember thinking this
woman doesn't belong here. I remember watching it and thinking
she's a legitimate business mind like you happen to be
on the show, which is I get the pr but

(41:57):
I was just like, this is a real person with
a real brain. Your husband's money making a lotion company,
not a fake fashion show. And I always and then
you'd say, stuff, I don't this is form ever go
and I feel way to bring up. But there was something.
You were on a trip, one of those like forced
work trips that make you go on with these other women,
and everyone wears espea drills and someone was tired, and

(42:19):
you just went like, then go to sleep.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
Oh the Kelly go to sleep. That's an iconic scene.

Speaker 2 (42:25):
As a New York hearted person, It's like that thing
where you're like, you don't like something, then fucking facts.
It like making up identity. And I was reminded of
go to sleep. When I had my baby. We weren't
giving her I don't know. She's in the other room,
she's with the nanny and she's crying, and my mom
comes out of the guests room. She goes give her
a passive buyer. I'm like, do we I don't know.

Speaker 1 (42:49):
That's really funny, My god, well you're very interesting and
really nice to talk.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
To you like that's funny, And then you said interesting.

Speaker 1 (42:59):
No, because we know. Oh you're funny, and that's all
I was saying to like Angelina Jolie, you're pretty like
we know like you know what I mean, we are.
I mean, you're not just a funny face.

Speaker 2 (43:07):
Thank you another funny face?

Speaker 1 (43:11):
No you are? You haven't you know? You have a
strong perspective and I did not know we'd agree on
so many things and things you said, I I know
you're right. Well, I say, it's a fucking scam every day,
all day, and I'm gonna send you scams because it's
a scam. But hopefully you don't think this podcast is
a scam because it's literally a garage band that for
the first year I was I didn't make a dollar.

(43:33):
I didn't even know understand the medium. But uh, I
love doing this. So you were really fun.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
Thank you for having me, and I will send you
a copy of All Things aside.

Speaker 1 (43:42):
Yeah, I was gonna there's only one question that I
ask everyone. What's your rose and your thorn of your career?

Speaker 2 (43:47):
Oh my god, own, there's more roses than thorns, and
even the thorns like like travel, you learn to appreciate
because it's good to get your blood circulating when it
prits you. I think rose is of the many roses.
I will say this one being able from your brain
to come up with something that turns into a currency.

(44:08):
Like we have a house. I've had houses because of
a joke about a goblin that I thought of, you know,
like it's not I didn't make something physically, like it
was just a funny thought.

Speaker 3 (44:18):
I had a funny turd that.

Speaker 2 (44:20):
I polished, and taking that and being able to travel
the world like I'm about to go on my second
Asia tour. So walking into a room in like Kuala
Lumpur and all these Asians and hid Jabs are looking
at you and they are laughing at your jokes and
we are not from the same world. It is the
most gratifying thing. And so within that, having a context

(44:45):
for my country, because we are so divided and it
is so easy where you live to write off the
rest of the country is fully insane. To get to
see the country, have an understanding of what people go through,
and to realize there are good people everywhere and not
everybody looks the same, and we all it's not as
simple as the news would make it.

Speaker 3 (45:05):
So I still do love America, even.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
Though we are a little battered and beaten, and so
getting that working context for my country and an actual
knowledge versus just the bubble that I live, right, I
love that. And the thorn is having to the fact
that somebody had a liquid bomb twenty years ago and
we still have to we still can't take liquids on planes.

Speaker 3 (45:28):
The thorn is other people.

Speaker 1 (45:30):
That's hilarious. Yeah, and my roses that you have a
sea horse. You'll always have a sea horse behind you
on this podcast.

Speaker 2 (45:37):
At this rental property into.

Speaker 1 (45:39):
Awesome, awesome. All right, well, thank you Elizo. We got
your book, We got it all in, but I appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (45:46):
Thanks Bethany, this was great. Appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
Amazing. Have a good day.