April 11, 2025 • 38 mins
Why Patrick is speaking out for the crew, what really happens on cast trips, and how reality TV exploits addiction and mental health.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
So let's now just go through workplace.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
You know there is it's the incentive to keep going.
Just look at like the problems with like pay discrepancies,
things they did to like for example, with Shena on
vander Pump Rules. I mean they would do this thing
with Shena where they every periodically every so years they
would like demote her to a friend of and you know,
pay her less per episode because she didn't have enough
(00:37):
going on in her life right to justify being a
main cast member. Aka, there's not enough drama going on
in your life, Like you need to amp it up
a little bit. Maybe next year you'll get you know,
full time again.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Right, So if you're a Luen and you get a dui,
you get paid more, But if you're Shena and you
have a boring storyline, you get paid less. So it's
the upside down that doesn't happen in normal workplace conditions, right.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
So it's like something that like can distiller. Bassett once said,
like the line is always moving, right, So same thing
with that, Like you want to be full time again,
you know, you better have something going on. And that's
the thing is like I don't think they understand anymore.
It's like not everybody wants to see it like insane,
like dark scandal every week. Like when these shows started,
(01:23):
it was like more fun and like yeah, you know,
like some light drama, some like stupid shade, you know,
eating a bow off a cake or you know what
I mean, stupid stuff like that. Yes, and now it's
like like super dark driving our cars into a house,
and you know, like it's gotten crazy and it's you know,
(01:43):
every year it needs to like push the envelope, push
the envelope more and more and more.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
So that's such a great point. Yeah, that's a great point.
That's a great point.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Well it becomes a situation where like well yeah, so
I mean just the kind of final thought on that
Sheena thing. Here you have someone who is an OG
on the show, like started an integral part of the show.
I mean, Sheena was like the backbone and vander pump Roules,
and here she is like seasons in where she should
be at the same pay level as like the other
(02:12):
people who are the ogs. But because there were years
where she was like demoted, she like was making less
than people who have been on the show years fewer
than her. You know, so that doesn't really make sense.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
There's a woman on my show that I won't that
wants to be back on it, so she would I
won't name her. She's wanted to be back on She
said she'd always go quiet if she left.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
But she used to say, you get punished like you're
a child.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
You feel like you were bad, so now you have
to sit in the corner like you're punished. That's what
she would say about it. And she has been punished,
but then she's been rewarded. Like it's a little bit
of that.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
It's insane too, the way that like, yeah, it is rewarded,
but like, oh, it's such a it's such a crazy
thing because you have people and you could speak to
that being someone who was on the show for years.
It's like once you've been on for so many years,
after several years doing these shows, like most of these
(03:09):
women like don't love it anymore, you know what I mean,
because it's really hard, it's really stressful. You do not
have peace in your life while you're filming this, while
you're in production, you know what I mean. But it
becomes a point to where you need it though, So
like I mean, case in point, I just did the
most recent season of Orange County, which covered all of
(03:32):
Shannon Badoor's DUI fall out. And you know, this woman
is like going through one of the hardest periods of
her life, clearly not doing well, and but she is
now facing all these legal problems and all these lawsuits
and she needs the money and you need to look.
I'll just be honest, Shannon Badoor was not like the
(03:53):
most kind person to me, as wasn't a most pleasant
person to work with. But I still had immense empathy
for her because like she was from the very beginning,
I was like, oh, wow, this woman is in a
place where she probably should not be on TV right now.
You know, she's really going through a really hard time.
She clearly does not want to be doing this in
(04:13):
my opinion, that's what it looked like, Yes, but she
just has to because she needs it now. And like,
so what is what does Bravo do? They decide to
bring in the woman who's dating her ex boyfriend to
come and hang out with all of her girlfriends for
the season, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
So like just to really add it right, throw over
the edge. That's what happens all the time. That's another
reason the crew, the crew gets beat down, the sound person,
the people that people don't think about because you're in
the line of farts. What the fuck are we doing
this now? Like, you know what, I don't want to
say that. I don't want to do that. I don't
want to talk to her. I don't want to sit
down with her. Like you guys are right there. Here's
the other thing, Like this is.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
The thing that's the same thing that happened with Tom
Sandaball at that reunion, you know what I mean, like
stop filming. You know he was yelling at me that day,
but I knew it wasn't about me, you know what.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
I's a punching bag in the yes.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
But you also there's that line where you're just like, yeah,
this isn't good for like humanity and my soul and
being like a human Like but you have no power,
Yeah you have a power.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Yeah, I mean it's it is insane and like I
think one of the reasons that I produced, you know,
I always produced with a level of empathy, you know
what I mean. I would always try to go into
every scene and try to understand what the cast member
point of view was right so I could properly, like
tell their story. So I always was very empathetic to
(05:37):
how they felt about the situation. And I think that
comes from my experience of being on a reality show
like this. You know. I was on a show called
Fire Island. I was back in like twenty sixteen that
we shot. It's like basically like the Jersey Shore, but
it's six gay guys living in a sharehouse on Fire Outland,
and we were shooting that show. I mean, it was
(05:59):
during the darkesteriod of my life. I was about like
a year and a half into a serious meth addiction.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Jesus.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
I actually was going into the bathroom, turning my mic off,
smoking crystal mess and coming back out and shooting the show.
You know. I literally was that, you know, and I
was keeping that a secret from everyone, And I know
how fucking hard that is. I know how it feels
to be on one of these shows when you're going
(06:27):
through a really hard time, when your life is kind
of crumbling around you and you're trying to hold it
together for the sake of the fact that you're on
a television show and you don't want the world to
know your problems, you know, like you don't you're well,
maybe you don't want the world to know your secrets, right.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Which is why you shouldn't go on.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Also, is mental health, substance abuse, emotional abuse, and sobriety.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Is it exploited on these shows?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yes, yes, no discussion. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
I mean that's the addiction and the substance abuse kind
of storylines or something that always may be a little
uneasy anytime we were talking about someone's.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Alcoholism or a drug addiction or any any of that.
It's so so fragile and something not to be taken
lightly and to be amplified by by these shows. I
can't imagine trying to like or stay or get sober
while being on one of these shows.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
So they should not have people on these shows that
have have proclivity to addiction. Someone who has had any
experience of addiction should probably not be on.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
I mean you probably for your own health and well being. No,
you probably network Maybe I don't know, because then I
don't know, because then you have like people who are
in recovery, who like are living great, healthy, balanced lives
that can tell handle something like that. But I don't know,
it's it, But it is a situation where people when
(08:08):
somebody gets sober on one of these shows, it's always like,
oh god, really okay, Well, I guess there goes the fun,
the fun version of them, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
It's a bummer to production.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
It's a bummer to production when someone gets sober for sure.
For sure, Yeah, which is so crazy to think about,
and like it's like someone who like has been through
that themselves, like I have been through that, and you know,
just being caught up in that world that's the commonplace.
It's like, oh God, they're getting sober, okay, and you
(08:40):
know what I mean, it's like, no, wait, what that's
good for them, that's great. So I mean it's like
similar to the Karen Huger situation. You know, she got
to see why she's literally sitting in a jail cell
right now. And her alcohol consumption has been something that
production has been very well aware of for many years.
You know, there's been many scenes all cast events like hey,
(09:04):
we got to make sure we get Karen home, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Oh yeah, that's on every cast.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
There's ones on ours with drugs, I mean drugs on
our show. Like definitely the crew knows who's doing drugs
and who's not doing drugs in the workplace, like again,
but then they hope that it's going to be discussed
and brought into scene, that other people are going to
question that person's drug use.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Yeah, and then when like Kring gets a DUI, everybody
actsaw like shocked and surprised. Well, I mean it's like
her third one, you know what I mean? And yeah,
how many times have we had to have like somebody
driver home from something, you know, so like.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Same thing, same thing on same thing. We had a
statistic recently that had like twenty five percent of all
housewives have had like in car serrations or arrests or
(10:02):
you know, financial illegal activity. And in my friend group,
like in anyone's normal circle, you don't have twenty five
percent of people you know that have not just had
a brush with the law, but like have been in jail, arrested,
have a dui, have defrauded the government. And then there's
also the financial foreclosure Like does that speak volumes?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Yeah, I mean yeah, it's definitely, like any an exaggerated version,
and it's definitely an amplified world, you know. Yeah, I mean,
in what world would you sit there and go have
dinner with the woman who's like now engaged to your
experts en who's suing you. You would never ever ever
(10:48):
do that, right, But because in this situation you are
forced to, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Well, the networks, so this whole hierarchy and structure is
designed like the mafia. This is going to sound crazy
or like what happens is the network pays talent as
independent and and crew as independent contractors. And the reason
(11:16):
for that is so they're not actual technical employees. Because
employees or union members have certain guidelines and can go
run up the flagpole and say I just saw someone
you know, break their sobriety or do drugs at work.
I just saw someone abuse someone else, or verbally abuse
(11:39):
someone else, or or emotionally abuse someone else.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Which is literally the basis of these shows.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
So the payment structure is designed so nobody's holding the
bag where the top person is always protected, and they're.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Staying that because it's like, oh, well it's not us,
that's the production company.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
That's what I'm saying, okay, which is.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Literally interesting, Sorry to interrupt you, but literally, there was
an article that came out today it's like Daily Mail
or something, and that they had a comment from a
Bravo in cyber you know about the video that I posted,
and it was basically like this has nothing to do
with Bravo. They have nothing to do with production company hiring.
That's all done at a production company level, you know,
(12:22):
like very like flipping like this has nothing to do
with the network, like you know, let them cake kind
of thing.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
So the production in each case, whether it's over consumption
or any of these situations, or with us it was
Columbia Cartagena where we almost all like died in the
boat where there were only two life fest I mean,
there are a lot of things like that that are
a different version of liability. There's mental health, there's substances.
Then there's like danger liability. Like so have you experienced
(12:51):
a bit of that too, where you're like, what the hell?
This is not safe?
Speaker 1 (12:54):
On trips?
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Absolutely, absolutely. My very first international cash trip, my first
cast trip was the first international cash trip I took.
Was for Real Housewoives of Atlanta spinoff called Porsche's Family Matters.
It was about Porscha's family. She was getting married, you know,
to this guy named Simon who she's now going through
(13:17):
a divorce with. But yeah, we took the cast to
Mexico for this healing retreat. You know how we love
we love a healing retreat on these Housesolives shows, which
are everything butt healing obviously, And we're at a cast
a dinner where a brawl broke out between her entire family.
(13:38):
I found myself having to pry a metal pole out
of Porsche's hand that she was trying to use to
bash another cast member's face in with who happened to
be the father father of her child. Yes, during that brawl,
I mean it went on for quite some time. There
were not only was she swinging this metal pole around
which could have hit anyone at any time, And this
(14:01):
was all on the show. You see me grab this, pull,
restle it out of her hand and take.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
It away the crew.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
They aired a very very watered down version of it.
It would go to black. I would occasionally go to
black so they didn't have to show it. You know,
I happened to be wearing a Lady Gaga T shirt
at that scene. And then I don't know, someone online
like anyway was commentary on it, calling me Gaga. But
(14:28):
but yeah, so there, I mean, not only is she
like using this metal pole to try to hit people
with swinging in around crew members with no you know,
not a care in the world about anyone throwing clay pots,
throwing plates that are breaking over cameraman's heads, throwing knives.
There were cameramen that were there at this thing that
(14:49):
like chimed in on the on these videos online like
I was there, Yes, that happened, wow, but yeah, and
so just complete chaos ensued. We were kicked out of
the restaurants that we were shooting in and the police
impounded all of our crew vehicles. So all of the
crew vehicles were taken. So the entire crew and cast
(15:11):
is left scrambling like scattered about the streets of Mexico,
like wandering around trying to find our way back to
our hotel because we kicked out of our location because
of this crazy fight that sent you. I mean, it
was pure chaos, you know.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
And the next day, like Porsa didn't even talk about it.
She she come we had learned later that day Porscha
reached out to her entire family and told them, don't
talk about this on the show because if we don't
talk about it, they can't air the fight. So obviously
that did happen Wow. So they eventually started talking about it.
(15:48):
But like then a week or so later, we were back
in the in the States and I was shooting a
scene with her cousin and her aunt or something, and
you know, in the beats, it's like we're talking to
about what happened on the trip, you know, and so
like that's I'm telling the cast like, Okay, well maybe
we should touch based on how we're feeling after everything
that happened on the trip, and so they start talking
(16:09):
about the stuff that happened.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Anyway, it gets back to Porsche, and Porsche caused a
production company that I'm trying to like coerce them to
talking about this, you know, on camera.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
So you're really primarily here to represent the crew I think,
I mean, just an entire culture.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yeah, I well, I'm not living in that environment anymore,
and now that I'm out of it, I don't know,
it just kind of felt like I just felt like
it needed to be said, you know what I mean.
There's these are things that have been discussed and complained
about since I started working on these shows, the crews
(16:51):
complaining about being overworked, specifically like on those cast trips,
those cast trips are nightmares, you know what I mean,
and they're non stop. And yeah, I was just like,
you know, this has been happening for so long, people
have been complaining about it for so long. I'm on
my way out of here. I have no desire to
come back, so like, why not take this opportunity to
(17:14):
shed a little light on this like huge issue in
this industry and maybe initiate some change as I you know,
see myself out the door.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Yes, it's courageous, and I think your voice will be
stronger than anyone's because you they have nothing you want
and you're not asking for anything. So no one's going
to come and say this guy has ulterior motives and
you're begrudged.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
You've a good life. You like me.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
I mean I was the scariest housewife because I became
the one who needed it the least, and so I
was always willing to walk and I walk twice.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Well yeah, and honestly too, that's I think that me doing,
you know, me starting my only fans and kind of
like taking my power into my own hands, taking my
finances into my own hands, and just like taking control
of all of that. It does take away you know
that that's uh need to stay loyal to the realm.
(18:07):
Like you say, you know what I mean, you're.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Yeah, like even a thread where you're like wondering if
you're burning the last bridge and if it matters, and
you're just like, I don't care about that bridge. I'm
never going back there. They have nothing I want. It's
so powerful.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
That had been something I'd been toying with for a while.
Like you know, I've been interested in doing only fans
for a while. I have many friends. My boyfriend is
a huge content creator.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
First of all, I hope a lot of my followers,
if any you know, if any of you are our
go on all the only fans follow him, watch him,
support him. Because this is courageous. I have to say
this guy, you know you're not in the same financial
position as I am, and you decided to speak up.
And I think that's extremely courageous because you speak to
(18:50):
the person. It doesn't matter if you are doing OnlyFans,
you speak. The crew needed a voice because the crew
is the every man and woman, and that everyone in
the country can relate to someone who's living paycheck to paycheck.
Something happens, a strike happens, They literally can't feed their kids,
they don't know what's going to happen to them. They
think they're going to be evicted, and they're doing things
(19:12):
they don't want to do. So you're speaking up for
people that still are on shows right now that have
to do that every day. So you're speaking up for them.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Well yeah, well, thank you. I appreciate that. But yeah,
I mean I've had many people who are working on
shows with many of the showrunners that I reference in
the video or allude to in the video, who thanks
me for speaking.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Out, you know, because they can't and they won't.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Right Well, yeah, because they need to work. You know.
That's like what ninety percent of the messages have been, like,
thank you for saying this. My god, so someone finally
said this. Y no good, because like it's it's not
just like a singular problem, like this is just happening
on you know, Real Housewives of whatever. You know, this
isn't on one show. This is across the board. You know.
(19:55):
I've heard from many, many colleagues that I've worked with,
and many people in the industry that I've never even met,
you know, and it's all the same thing. I think
that a lot of these like incidents that happened could
be corrected by having like standards and practices person present
on set. You know, I don't know what the term
(20:16):
for it would be because it doesn't exist.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
I've said that like a COVID compliance person that was
there making sure that things were taking exactly.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
It doesn't exist on these shows, so I don't even
know what to call it. But there should be someone
put there in place by the network or maybe a
third party or something, no, a third reality.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Yeah, it's like a COVID compliance.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
I said, exactly, exactly, just like making sure hey, like, hey, cameraman,
when was the last time you got a bathroom break care?
If you need a You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
The upside down. It's the upside down of any other workplace.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
So is you can either have peace and have a
well balanced life or you can be like a successful housewife.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
So let's talk about the after effects, like, because I
remember it takes months to years to get over having
been during this experience. For me, it's like almost when
you have a baby six months later, you still don't
feel right, like you just live in a different reality.
You think that it's normal and that it's what everybody
(21:22):
goes through and that people care about it in the
normal world, and then you realize like they don't, like
don't It's like an ex that I never I don't
think of that often. Like That's why when I saw
your video, I was like, oh wait different. Okay, So
how does it affect the crew working in this environment
physically and mentally? And how does it feel like a workplace?
(21:43):
And you worked on Union shows and this is so
markedly different, Like what does it feel like from the
crew's perspective?
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Yeah, I mean, I've spent three years working in CBS,
like a live daytime television show, you know. I've worked
on many movies and stuff before I got injur rear.
I've worked in the scripted space, in the union space,
where things are much more you know, by the book
and on the up and up, you know. Okay, I
(22:11):
think that I'll speak specifically on these cash trips because
I think those are the places where the most infractions
and the most violations happen. Ah okay, because it's such
a concentrated like pressure cooker.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
I just did a video on TikTok saying these are
the trip, this is the trips are when you have
to fit twenty five pounds of emotional and dramatic shit
in a five pound bag. And they've spent money, and
they've spent money, and you better fucking make a meal
out of it. They need everything to pop off on
the trip. It's the arc of the season. It gets
(22:46):
you right into the reunion, and so it's a pressure cooker.
That's what I've said, And that's why they liked on
New York that we'd go just to the Berkshire's or
just to Miami because it costs nothing, and yet we'd
still deliver the same disaster. That's what my point of
view is. So you're validating my point of view.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
I mean, the pressures that are put upon the crews
and producers are just insane. I spoke about this. I'm
going to reiterate some of the things I said in
the video, Like, you know a lot of times, you know,
all these cash trips, you'll go like a week long trip.
There was a trip where I traveled twenty two hours.
Me and a group of crew members traveled twenty two
(23:20):
hours to an international location. You know, travel days a
work day, you're changing planes, you're collecting gear, you're like
communicating with your crew, you know what I mean, you're
doing logistics, you're talking to the people that are already
there like you're working, you know. And then so we
get to this location after having worked and traveled for
twenty two hours straight, and we're told when we got
(23:43):
to the hotel, we got a text that said, hello, welcome,
Please drop your bags and get freshened up in your
room and be back in the lobby within the hour
for a day of scouting. So we were expected, although
we had just finished working a twenty two hour day,
we were expected to begin yet another twenty two hour
day without like a literal wink of sleek. So I mean,
(24:05):
and that's happened more than once on these shows.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Basically, you're saying that there should be a reasonable I'm
saying in a workplace, there are shifts, and you're saying
that people should be working in reasonable shifts with a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
People should be working in shift. People should be working
in shifts. Correct. So some shows did that, and I
said this in the video. Vander pump Rose, for example,
was a show that staggered really well. That was a
very well run show by the showrunner Jeremiah Smith. That's
a testament that his leadership, he was always very very
aware of, you know, the needs of the crew, was
(24:38):
very in touch with the needs of the crew.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Amazing, Like right, shout out to Jeremiah Smith. Okay, Yes.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
And there are some people on the other hand who
run the trips, like you know, tyrants. You know, they'll
expect every producer to be at that cast villa or
the cast rooms at like seven or eight a m.
To start shooting producer cam before one of the big
cameras get up. So we're coming in on iPhones shooting
them waking up, you know what I mean, before the
(25:05):
before the crews get up.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
How many hours in a row are you working without
sleep and food like that?
Speaker 2 (25:11):
On those ships, you're working like sometimes like thirteen fourteen
fifteen hour days at that time, depending on your position.
And then these loggers then they'll work that shoot day
and then they have to go back to their room
and write a summary. So then they're writing for like
three hours, you know, and then they have to be
back to working like two hours. Your car times eight am,
your car times am. We're running late.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
I had this experience on a show that I was
on and my name was on. And there was a
moment when I looked at the producer I won't name her.
There were two producers and I said, is this legal?
Was freezing. We had been working. It was two o'clock
in the morning. They had jammed everything in to this
one location that we had to get done on this day,
and like the pivotal point was still hadn't been accomplished.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
And I said, is this legal?
Speaker 3 (26:07):
And they said, well, it's not union, it's not illegal,
but it's not right. And I called up the head
of the production company and was like what And it's
one of them that you actually know, and I said,
what the fuck? And I freaked out. And the next
time I met with this entire crew, I said, I
just want you guys to know that what that was.
And one part, one of the sound person quit. I
(26:27):
was acutely aware of it was wrong. And somebody from
your world too was working with me on it, and
I was and he was just used to it because
he's used to what you're talking about. And I said
to the crew, this is not This will never happen again.
My name cannot be on something that cannot be a
reflection of me. Like you just know when it's inhumane.
And so you're speaking for the crew from the physical
(26:49):
the lack of breaks, lack of you.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Know, you're in these tropical locations, right and sometimes the
women's cast. The rooms can be like different parts of
these resorts, right, so they're very far away sometimes from
each other. So you'll have a crew that's you know,
carrying several heavy cameras, tons of equipment, lighting all that.
You just manually, they're just firing you off to different
(27:14):
places and then they're like, nope, go back to Bethany's room.
And then we're headed there and they're like, what the hell,
why aren't you have Bethany's room? And we need to
get this scene shut, you know, and it's like, well,
they're carrying all the stuff to try to get it
from the last movie made, you know, and they're just no,
and they're like, okay, well I'm giving my cameraman like
a water break because we just like walked three miles
to get here, so like we're gonna need a second.
(27:35):
You know. There's no consideration of those kind of things,
you know what I'm saying, They don't.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Care And is there any hr there.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Are definitely no HR representatives on site on these trips.
That's what I mentioned in the video. I think that
Bravo should send someone from human resources, some kind of
compliance officer to these to these trips to ensure that
the cast, crew and everyone involved are given their like
adequate break times, are given rest, everyone's being treated humanely
(28:05):
and not being you know, forced to like sit on
a hot boat for four hours. You know what I'm saying, Like, No.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
This is what I said the first time around. I said,
there are no guard rails, there's no lifeguard, there's no
principle in the office. It's just a free free for all.
And it's just a free for all. So what about
the And then the last thing I want to talk
about is like what about the mental health of the
crew and how the crew feels about the subject matter
(28:33):
about the Porsche fight, about the Morocco Brandy Caroline incident,
about the Shannon Badour, about the Scary Island, Like what
is the crew's moral dilemma or are they just machines
that are just don't they don't you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Like, I mean I can speak to the Porsche fight.
I mean they were all extremely upset after that they
were like this is so fucked up, Like we can't
work like this, We shouldn't be having to do this,
you know. And and the real kicker for that was
like Porscha didn't even like acknowledge it, you know, until
she was like made to like because there was like
(29:10):
day a day went by and Porsche had said nothing
to the crew or anything until they like, like you
have to say something. She gave us like very very
very quick little apology that she really clearly wanted to
like breeze through like check. Yeah. So they were very
like put off by that. And yeah, I mean I
can't tell you how many times I've been like that's
(29:33):
been late night at a trip going back to do
producer Cam, like all right, we gotta go back and
get the ladies having fun in their rooms, and like
these ladies are so exhausted a lot of times, like
they just traveled, you know, twenty something hours to get
there too, they haven't gotten a lot of rest. And
I've literally had to tell them like all right, ladies,
I eat everybody up dancing, Let's take some you know,
(29:54):
like who who wants drinks, Let's get some drinks, Let's
have some fun. Get the energy up here, you know
what I mean? Told to tell them, you.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Know, does exhaustion help drama?
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Tired, they're like all dead and they're like okay, they
get up and dance. It's like dance, pony dance. You know.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
Is there any aspect of it where the exhaustion helps
the drama? The alcohol helps the drama like that production
knows that, Like they're tired, so they're going to do
and say stupid shito percent.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
I think that the model of these trips to pack
so much into such a short amount of time, I
think was designed to uh be very exhausting and very uh.
(30:41):
I think they were designed to push people to their limits.
You know what I mean, to push these cast members
to their limits, these long days, long events where a
lot of alcohol is happening.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Yet it's the residual aspect of that is the trips
are designed to push people to their limits. So somebody
has to be filming that creuse not making the same money,
getting the same fame, having the same decisions, power and relevance,
is experienced the same exhaustion, but with no upside. Absolutely, absolutely,
that's what you're saying, because I was trying. I'm trying
(31:12):
to get to you what overall this is for the crew,
and that's what I've now at the end of this
interview come to you are basically saying that all of
this drama that goes on that is making housewives cry
ruin their lives, the desperation, the circular reference. The crew
is experiencing all of it and more because they're lugging
equipment and having to capture it and have to stay
(31:34):
in shitty hotel rooms. But they get none of the upside.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
And dodging plates and knives by their faces, you know,
and can be replaced at a moment's notice without.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
Yeah, so it's all downside while you're watching these other
people drive in rolls royces and you guys are there
to produce it.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Yeah, it's very I feel like I get it.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
I feel like I want to know if there's anything
you have to say that you haven't said.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
They said that you got everything.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
So one discussion has been NDAs because they've been loosely
interpreted and sort of weaponized theoretically, so no one can
talk about their experience, and Bravo says, oh, the NDAs
are not so someone doesn't discuss problems in the workplace.
(32:27):
They're just to protect storyline. But cast members and crew
members are scared that they're on a gag order and
that they'll be sanctioned and punished if they talk because
they're under NDA. But NDAs are not designed so if
someone has a me too incident or experience, is something
that is problematic in the workplace, that you're not supposed
(32:47):
to tell about it. NDAs are supposed to be for
like proprietary information, you know, like don't give our recipe
for the secret sauce or our story exactly. So the
NDA is a discussion, and have you been nervous about that?
You'll be signed an NDA along the way.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
I'm not nervous about that because everything I've been saying
is the truth, you know. So while that may be
a concern for some people, it's just not a concern
of mine quite frankly. Yeah, I think that nothing changes
if nothing changes, So I mean, somebody's got to speak
up and say these things. Somebody's got to bring these
(33:24):
things to light from the point of view of the
producers and the crew members that are seeing this, because
nobody believes the housewife who's you know, been like spiraling
out of control who's been like or been has this
reputation of being difficult or being a slut, or being
stupid or being you know, whatever it is. Whatever reason
you don't like a real housewife for, it's a reason
(33:46):
for you not to believe them when they come out
and say, hey, I've been mistreated. You know. So, I
don't care if you like somebody or not. I don't
care if you agree with their lifestyle. I don't care
if you agree with what they do. And I'm talking
about people in front of the camera talking about people
behind the camera. They should that that just shouldn't happen.
(34:06):
So it doesn't matter who the message is coming from.
It's like, let's believe these people. Let's start believing some
of these people, you know what I mean. Let's start
working at what some of these people are saying and
maybe set aside your feelings about what they did in
their storyline on their show and maybe like taking the consideration, Okay,
maybe two things can be true at one time.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
You are a great messenger, like you actually are doing
so much for the crew and for these women, because I,
as a viewer would be like Daniel Staub, but when
she reached out to me and said, do you know
how many times prostitution whore has been said?
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Said on watch Rappens.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
Live that it was at Bravo Khan that it was
like played over and over, like it's like the girl
who was promiscuous in high school or who slept with
half the hockey team, but then is like abused, like
fully abused, you know, or physical abused, or becomes not
a person anymore. That's the thing that I think is
going on. It's all the girls that have made mistakes,
(35:06):
done stupid things, said stupid things, drank too much, but
too many people weren't you know, gotten many tattoos, look
a certain way that people judge. You know, these are
the girls that I do think are also kind of discarded,
so their message gets muddled. And I think that that's
what you've just said, like that you are the voice
(35:27):
of those people, and that I think is something interesting.
Does that make Does that make s that's the difference,
Yeah or not?
Speaker 2 (35:33):
It does because you know, those people have been like
cast out, you know what I mean, So like a
lot of the time, you know, the viewership will turn
on those people because they're not spoken up positively on
the show anymore. Whatever reason. But it's like this thing
where we're going to keep you. We're gonna keep you here,
We're gonna keep you in a nice car, and we'll
keep you you know what I mean. But you're staying
(35:55):
the right you know what I mean? Yes, yeah, exactly.
In the midst of hearing from all these people, I've
also heard from cast members who are currently on shows
that are going through this ship right now in real time,
you know, realching out saying like I'm going through this
on my show right now for X y Z. So
it's like it's nothing has changed, you know.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
No, A big one said it to me too. People
reached out to me and then but then they got
scared and they wouldn't say anything, and they like said
publicly the opposite. And I got annoyed because I was like, no,
now you're like you called me or you reached out
to me to say what I was doing is amazing,
but then you got nervous and hid behind it, and
when asked in the media what you thought, and you
like denounced it. But you called me privately. That has
(36:37):
happened a lot people have called privately. But yeah, but
that that's that's their privacy.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
Yeah, you understand. I understand, like you got to like
make a living, you know, even people, this is what's
paying your bills. This is why none of the crew
has been speaking out because this is paying their bills,
you know what I'm saying. So I also don't blame
the crew, the cast members who don't want to speak publicly.
Obviously they have a job to keep.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
You know, I think you can actually make a difference,
and I'm going to connect you to people, like there
were conversations where SAG and AFTRA validated everything I was
saying and saying that the door was opened, the bridge
was never linked. But we have a lot, we have
contacts and respect there and you could probably be instrumental
in like helping production crews get the treatment they deserve.
(37:22):
This also, I remember when I had this going on
with the reckoning, teachers were talking about it, like you know,
plumbers were talking about it. People and other industries start
to hear things that start in one industry. So I
actually think you can you can make an impact because
it's more you know, it's a it's more of a
middle class uprising that that you could represent that I
(37:44):
obviously couldn't. So anyway, I just want to thank you Patrick.
Have a great rest of your time in Thailand. Patrick
is joining us from Thailand. It's the middle of the night,
so go get some rest and breathe easy. I think
you did a great job.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Thank you, thank you, thanks. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
Awesome.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
Thank you. What that? What that? What that? What that?
Speaker 4 (38:20):
Hap
So let's now just go through workplace.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
You know there is it's the incentive to keep going.
Just look at like the problems with like pay discrepancies,
things they did to like for example, with Shena on
vander Pump Rules. I mean they would do this thing
with Shena where they every periodically every so years they
would like demote her to a friend of and you know,
pay her less per episode because she didn't have enough
(00:37):
going on in her life right to justify being a
main cast member. Aka, there's not enough drama going on
in your life, Like you need to amp it up
a little bit. Maybe next year you'll get you know,
full time again.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Right, So if you're a Luen and you get a dui,
you get paid more, But if you're Shena and you
have a boring storyline, you get paid less. So it's
the upside down that doesn't happen in normal workplace conditions, right.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
So it's like something that like can distiller. Bassett once said,
like the line is always moving, right, So same thing
with that, Like you want to be full time again,
you know, you better have something going on. And that's
the thing is like I don't think they understand anymore.
It's like not everybody wants to see it like insane,
like dark scandal every week. Like when these shows started,
(01:23):
it was like more fun and like yeah, you know,
like some light drama, some like stupid shade, you know,
eating a bow off a cake or you know what
I mean, stupid stuff like that. Yes, and now it's
like like super dark driving our cars into a house,
and you know, like it's gotten crazy and it's you know,
(01:43):
every year it needs to like push the envelope, push
the envelope more and more and more.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
So that's such a great point. Yeah, that's a great point.
That's a great point.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Well it becomes a situation where like well yeah, so
I mean just the kind of final thought on that
Sheena thing. Here you have someone who is an OG
on the show, like started an integral part of the show.
I mean, Sheena was like the backbone and vander pump Roules,
and here she is like seasons in where she should
be at the same pay level as like the other
(02:12):
people who are the ogs. But because there were years
where she was like demoted, she like was making less
than people who have been on the show years fewer
than her. You know, so that doesn't really make sense.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
There's a woman on my show that I won't that
wants to be back on it, so she would I
won't name her. She's wanted to be back on She
said she'd always go quiet if she left.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
But she used to say, you get punished like you're
a child.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
You feel like you were bad, so now you have
to sit in the corner like you're punished. That's what
she would say about it. And she has been punished,
but then she's been rewarded. Like it's a little bit
of that.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
It's insane too, the way that like, yeah, it is rewarded,
but like, oh, it's such a it's such a crazy
thing because you have people and you could speak to
that being someone who was on the show for years.
It's like once you've been on for so many years,
after several years doing these shows, like most of these
(03:09):
women like don't love it anymore, you know what I mean,
because it's really hard, it's really stressful. You do not
have peace in your life while you're filming this, while
you're in production, you know what I mean. But it
becomes a point to where you need it though, So
like I mean, case in point, I just did the
most recent season of Orange County, which covered all of
(03:32):
Shannon Badoor's DUI fall out. And you know, this woman
is like going through one of the hardest periods of
her life, clearly not doing well, and but she is
now facing all these legal problems and all these lawsuits
and she needs the money and you need to look.
I'll just be honest, Shannon Badoor was not like the
(03:53):
most kind person to me, as wasn't a most pleasant
person to work with. But I still had immense empathy
for her because like she was from the very beginning,
I was like, oh, wow, this woman is in a
place where she probably should not be on TV right now.
You know, she's really going through a really hard time.
She clearly does not want to be doing this in
(04:13):
my opinion, that's what it looked like, Yes, but she
just has to because she needs it now. And like,
so what is what does Bravo do? They decide to
bring in the woman who's dating her ex boyfriend to
come and hang out with all of her girlfriends for
the season, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
So like just to really add it right, throw over
the edge. That's what happens all the time. That's another
reason the crew, the crew gets beat down, the sound person,
the people that people don't think about because you're in
the line of farts. What the fuck are we doing
this now? Like, you know what, I don't want to
say that. I don't want to do that. I don't
want to talk to her. I don't want to sit
down with her. Like you guys are right there. Here's
the other thing, Like this is.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
The thing that's the same thing that happened with Tom
Sandaball at that reunion, you know what I mean, like
stop filming. You know he was yelling at me that day,
but I knew it wasn't about me, you know what.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
I's a punching bag in the yes.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
But you also there's that line where you're just like, yeah,
this isn't good for like humanity and my soul and
being like a human Like but you have no power,
Yeah you have a power.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Yeah, I mean it's it is insane and like I
think one of the reasons that I produced, you know,
I always produced with a level of empathy, you know
what I mean. I would always try to go into
every scene and try to understand what the cast member
point of view was right so I could properly, like
tell their story. So I always was very empathetic to
(05:37):
how they felt about the situation. And I think that
comes from my experience of being on a reality show
like this. You know. I was on a show called
Fire Island. I was back in like twenty sixteen that
we shot. It's like basically like the Jersey Shore, but
it's six gay guys living in a sharehouse on Fire Outland,
and we were shooting that show. I mean, it was
(05:59):
during the darkesteriod of my life. I was about like
a year and a half into a serious meth addiction.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Jesus.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
I actually was going into the bathroom, turning my mic off,
smoking crystal mess and coming back out and shooting the show.
You know. I literally was that, you know, and I
was keeping that a secret from everyone, And I know
how fucking hard that is. I know how it feels
to be on one of these shows when you're going
(06:27):
through a really hard time, when your life is kind
of crumbling around you and you're trying to hold it
together for the sake of the fact that you're on
a television show and you don't want the world to
know your problems, you know, like you don't you're well,
maybe you don't want the world to know your secrets, right.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Which is why you shouldn't go on.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Also, is mental health, substance abuse, emotional abuse, and sobriety.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Is it exploited on these shows?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yes, yes, no discussion. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
I mean that's the addiction and the substance abuse kind
of storylines or something that always may be a little
uneasy anytime we were talking about someone's.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Alcoholism or a drug addiction or any any of that.
It's so so fragile and something not to be taken
lightly and to be amplified by by these shows. I
can't imagine trying to like or stay or get sober
while being on one of these shows.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
So they should not have people on these shows that
have have proclivity to addiction. Someone who has had any
experience of addiction should probably not be on.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
I mean you probably for your own health and well being. No,
you probably network Maybe I don't know, because then I
don't know, because then you have like people who are
in recovery, who like are living great, healthy, balanced lives
that can tell handle something like that. But I don't know,
it's it, But it is a situation where people when
(08:08):
somebody gets sober on one of these shows, it's always like,
oh god, really okay, Well, I guess there goes the fun,
the fun version of them, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
It's a bummer to production.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
It's a bummer to production when someone gets sober for sure.
For sure, Yeah, which is so crazy to think about,
and like it's like someone who like has been through
that themselves, like I have been through that, and you know,
just being caught up in that world that's the commonplace.
It's like, oh God, they're getting sober, okay, and you
(08:40):
know what I mean, it's like, no, wait, what that's
good for them, that's great. So I mean it's like
similar to the Karen Huger situation. You know, she got
to see why she's literally sitting in a jail cell
right now. And her alcohol consumption has been something that
production has been very well aware of for many years.
You know, there's been many scenes all cast events like hey,
(09:04):
we got to make sure we get Karen home, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Oh yeah, that's on every cast.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
There's ones on ours with drugs, I mean drugs on
our show. Like definitely the crew knows who's doing drugs
and who's not doing drugs in the workplace, like again,
but then they hope that it's going to be discussed
and brought into scene, that other people are going to
question that person's drug use.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Yeah, and then when like Kring gets a DUI, everybody
actsaw like shocked and surprised. Well, I mean it's like
her third one, you know what I mean? And yeah,
how many times have we had to have like somebody
driver home from something, you know, so like.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Same thing, same thing on same thing. We had a
statistic recently that had like twenty five percent of all
housewives have had like in car serrations or arrests or
(10:02):
you know, financial illegal activity. And in my friend group,
like in anyone's normal circle, you don't have twenty five
percent of people you know that have not just had
a brush with the law, but like have been in jail, arrested,
have a dui, have defrauded the government. And then there's
also the financial foreclosure Like does that speak volumes?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Yeah, I mean yeah, it's definitely, like any an exaggerated version,
and it's definitely an amplified world, you know. Yeah, I mean,
in what world would you sit there and go have
dinner with the woman who's like now engaged to your
experts en who's suing you. You would never ever ever
(10:48):
do that, right, But because in this situation you are
forced to, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Well, the networks, so this whole hierarchy and structure is
designed like the mafia. This is going to sound crazy
or like what happens is the network pays talent as
independent and and crew as independent contractors. And the reason
(11:16):
for that is so they're not actual technical employees. Because
employees or union members have certain guidelines and can go
run up the flagpole and say I just saw someone
you know, break their sobriety or do drugs at work.
I just saw someone abuse someone else, or verbally abuse
(11:39):
someone else, or or emotionally abuse someone else.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Which is literally the basis of these shows.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
So the payment structure is designed so nobody's holding the
bag where the top person is always protected, and they're.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Staying that because it's like, oh, well it's not us,
that's the production company.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
That's what I'm saying, okay, which is.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Literally interesting, Sorry to interrupt you, but literally, there was
an article that came out today it's like Daily Mail
or something, and that they had a comment from a
Bravo in cyber you know about the video that I posted,
and it was basically like this has nothing to do
with Bravo. They have nothing to do with production company hiring.
That's all done at a production company level, you know,
(12:22):
like very like flipping like this has nothing to do
with the network, like you know, let them cake kind
of thing.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
So the production in each case, whether it's over consumption
or any of these situations, or with us it was
Columbia Cartagena where we almost all like died in the
boat where there were only two life fest I mean,
there are a lot of things like that that are
a different version of liability. There's mental health, there's substances.
Then there's like danger liability. Like so have you experienced
(12:51):
a bit of that too, where you're like, what the hell?
This is not safe?
Speaker 1 (12:54):
On trips?
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Absolutely, absolutely. My very first international cash trip, my first
cast trip was the first international cash trip I took.
Was for Real Housewoives of Atlanta spinoff called Porsche's Family Matters.
It was about Porscha's family. She was getting married, you know,
to this guy named Simon who she's now going through
(13:17):
a divorce with. But yeah, we took the cast to
Mexico for this healing retreat. You know how we love
we love a healing retreat on these Housesolives shows, which
are everything butt healing obviously, And we're at a cast
a dinner where a brawl broke out between her entire family.
(13:38):
I found myself having to pry a metal pole out
of Porsche's hand that she was trying to use to
bash another cast member's face in with who happened to
be the father father of her child. Yes, during that brawl,
I mean it went on for quite some time. There
were not only was she swinging this metal pole around
which could have hit anyone at any time, And this
(14:01):
was all on the show. You see me grab this, pull,
restle it out of her hand and take.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
It away the crew.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
They aired a very very watered down version of it.
It would go to black. I would occasionally go to
black so they didn't have to show it. You know,
I happened to be wearing a Lady Gaga T shirt
at that scene. And then I don't know, someone online
like anyway was commentary on it, calling me Gaga. But
(14:28):
but yeah, so there, I mean, not only is she
like using this metal pole to try to hit people
with swinging in around crew members with no you know,
not a care in the world about anyone throwing clay pots,
throwing plates that are breaking over cameraman's heads, throwing knives.
There were cameramen that were there at this thing that
(14:49):
like chimed in on the on these videos online like
I was there, Yes, that happened, wow, but yeah, and
so just complete chaos ensued. We were kicked out of
the restaurants that we were shooting in and the police
impounded all of our crew vehicles. So all of the
crew vehicles were taken. So the entire crew and cast
(15:11):
is left scrambling like scattered about the streets of Mexico,
like wandering around trying to find our way back to
our hotel because we kicked out of our location because
of this crazy fight that sent you. I mean, it
was pure chaos, you know.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
And the next day, like Porsa didn't even talk about it.
She she come we had learned later that day Porscha
reached out to her entire family and told them, don't
talk about this on the show because if we don't
talk about it, they can't air the fight. So obviously
that did happen Wow. So they eventually started talking about it.
(15:48):
But like then a week or so later, we were back
in the in the States and I was shooting a
scene with her cousin and her aunt or something, and
you know, in the beats, it's like we're talking to
about what happened on the trip, you know, and so
like that's I'm telling the cast like, Okay, well maybe
we should touch based on how we're feeling after everything
that happened on the trip, and so they start talking
(16:09):
about the stuff that happened.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Anyway, it gets back to Porsche, and Porsche caused a
production company that I'm trying to like coerce them to
talking about this, you know, on camera.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
So you're really primarily here to represent the crew I think,
I mean, just an entire culture.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yeah, I well, I'm not living in that environment anymore,
and now that I'm out of it, I don't know,
it just kind of felt like I just felt like
it needed to be said, you know what I mean.
There's these are things that have been discussed and complained
about since I started working on these shows, the crews
(16:51):
complaining about being overworked, specifically like on those cast trips,
those cast trips are nightmares, you know what I mean,
and they're non stop. And yeah, I was just like,
you know, this has been happening for so long, people
have been complaining about it for so long. I'm on
my way out of here. I have no desire to
come back, so like, why not take this opportunity to
(17:14):
shed a little light on this like huge issue in
this industry and maybe initiate some change as I you know,
see myself out the door.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Yes, it's courageous, and I think your voice will be
stronger than anyone's because you they have nothing you want
and you're not asking for anything. So no one's going
to come and say this guy has ulterior motives and
you're begrudged.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
You've a good life. You like me.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
I mean I was the scariest housewife because I became
the one who needed it the least, and so I
was always willing to walk and I walk twice.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Well yeah, and honestly too, that's I think that me doing,
you know, me starting my only fans and kind of
like taking my power into my own hands, taking my
finances into my own hands, and just like taking control
of all of that. It does take away you know
that that's uh need to stay loyal to the realm.
(18:07):
Like you say, you know what I mean, you're.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Yeah, like even a thread where you're like wondering if
you're burning the last bridge and if it matters, and
you're just like, I don't care about that bridge. I'm
never going back there. They have nothing I want. It's
so powerful.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
That had been something I'd been toying with for a while.
Like you know, I've been interested in doing only fans
for a while. I have many friends. My boyfriend is
a huge content creator.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
First of all, I hope a lot of my followers,
if any you know, if any of you are our
go on all the only fans follow him, watch him,
support him. Because this is courageous. I have to say
this guy, you know you're not in the same financial
position as I am, and you decided to speak up.
And I think that's extremely courageous because you speak to
(18:50):
the person. It doesn't matter if you are doing OnlyFans,
you speak. The crew needed a voice because the crew
is the every man and woman, and that everyone in
the country can relate to someone who's living paycheck to paycheck.
Something happens, a strike happens, They literally can't feed their kids,
they don't know what's going to happen to them. They
think they're going to be evicted, and they're doing things
(19:12):
they don't want to do. So you're speaking up for
people that still are on shows right now that have
to do that every day. So you're speaking up for them.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Well yeah, well, thank you. I appreciate that. But yeah,
I mean I've had many people who are working on
shows with many of the showrunners that I reference in
the video or allude to in the video, who thanks
me for speaking.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Out, you know, because they can't and they won't.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Right Well, yeah, because they need to work. You know.
That's like what ninety percent of the messages have been, like,
thank you for saying this. My god, so someone finally
said this. Y no good, because like it's it's not
just like a singular problem, like this is just happening
on you know, Real Housewives of whatever. You know, this
isn't on one show. This is across the board. You know.
(19:55):
I've heard from many, many colleagues that I've worked with,
and many people in the industry that I've never even met,
you know, and it's all the same thing. I think
that a lot of these like incidents that happened could
be corrected by having like standards and practices person present
on set. You know, I don't know what the term
(20:16):
for it would be because it doesn't exist.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
I've said that like a COVID compliance person that was
there making sure that things were taking exactly.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
It doesn't exist on these shows, so I don't even
know what to call it. But there should be someone
put there in place by the network or maybe a
third party or something, no, a third reality.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Yeah, it's like a COVID compliance.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
I said, exactly, exactly, just like making sure hey, like, hey, cameraman,
when was the last time you got a bathroom break care?
If you need a You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
The upside down. It's the upside down of any other workplace.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
So is you can either have peace and have a
well balanced life or you can be like a successful housewife.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
So let's talk about the after effects, like, because I
remember it takes months to years to get over having
been during this experience. For me, it's like almost when
you have a baby six months later, you still don't
feel right, like you just live in a different reality.
You think that it's normal and that it's what everybody
(21:22):
goes through and that people care about it in the
normal world, and then you realize like they don't, like
don't It's like an ex that I never I don't
think of that often. Like That's why when I saw
your video, I was like, oh wait different. Okay, So
how does it affect the crew working in this environment
physically and mentally? And how does it feel like a workplace?
(21:43):
And you worked on Union shows and this is so
markedly different, Like what does it feel like from the
crew's perspective?
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Yeah, I mean, I've spent three years working in CBS,
like a live daytime television show, you know. I've worked
on many movies and stuff before I got injur rear.
I've worked in the scripted space, in the union space,
where things are much more you know, by the book
and on the up and up, you know. Okay, I
(22:11):
think that I'll speak specifically on these cash trips because
I think those are the places where the most infractions
and the most violations happen. Ah okay, because it's such
a concentrated like pressure cooker.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
I just did a video on TikTok saying these are
the trip, this is the trips are when you have
to fit twenty five pounds of emotional and dramatic shit
in a five pound bag. And they've spent money, and
they've spent money, and you better fucking make a meal
out of it. They need everything to pop off on
the trip. It's the arc of the season. It gets
(22:46):
you right into the reunion, and so it's a pressure cooker.
That's what I've said, And that's why they liked on
New York that we'd go just to the Berkshire's or
just to Miami because it costs nothing, and yet we'd
still deliver the same disaster. That's what my point of
view is. So you're validating my point of view.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
I mean, the pressures that are put upon the crews
and producers are just insane. I spoke about this. I'm
going to reiterate some of the things I said in
the video, Like, you know a lot of times, you know,
all these cash trips, you'll go like a week long trip.
There was a trip where I traveled twenty two hours.
Me and a group of crew members traveled twenty two
(23:20):
hours to an international location. You know, travel days a
work day, you're changing planes, you're collecting gear, you're like
communicating with your crew, you know what I mean, you're
doing logistics, you're talking to the people that are already
there like you're working, you know. And then so we
get to this location after having worked and traveled for
twenty two hours straight, and we're told when we got
(23:43):
to the hotel, we got a text that said, hello, welcome,
Please drop your bags and get freshened up in your
room and be back in the lobby within the hour
for a day of scouting. So we were expected, although
we had just finished working a twenty two hour day,
we were expected to begin yet another twenty two hour
day without like a literal wink of sleek. So I mean,
(24:05):
and that's happened more than once on these shows.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Basically, you're saying that there should be a reasonable I'm
saying in a workplace, there are shifts, and you're saying
that people should be working in reasonable shifts with a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
People should be working in shift. People should be working
in shifts. Correct. So some shows did that, and I
said this in the video. Vander pump Rose, for example,
was a show that staggered really well. That was a
very well run show by the showrunner Jeremiah Smith. That's
a testament that his leadership, he was always very very
aware of, you know, the needs of the crew, was
(24:38):
very in touch with the needs of the crew.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Amazing, Like right, shout out to Jeremiah Smith. Okay, Yes.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
And there are some people on the other hand who
run the trips, like you know, tyrants. You know, they'll
expect every producer to be at that cast villa or
the cast rooms at like seven or eight a m.
To start shooting producer cam before one of the big
cameras get up. So we're coming in on iPhones shooting
them waking up, you know what I mean, before the
(25:05):
before the crews get up.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
How many hours in a row are you working without
sleep and food like that?
Speaker 2 (25:11):
On those ships, you're working like sometimes like thirteen fourteen
fifteen hour days at that time, depending on your position.
And then these loggers then they'll work that shoot day
and then they have to go back to their room
and write a summary. So then they're writing for like
three hours, you know, and then they have to be
back to working like two hours. Your car times eight am,
your car times am. We're running late.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
I had this experience on a show that I was
on and my name was on. And there was a
moment when I looked at the producer I won't name her.
There were two producers and I said, is this legal?
Was freezing. We had been working. It was two o'clock
in the morning. They had jammed everything in to this
one location that we had to get done on this day,
and like the pivotal point was still hadn't been accomplished.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
And I said, is this legal?
Speaker 3 (26:07):
And they said, well, it's not union, it's not illegal,
but it's not right. And I called up the head
of the production company and was like what And it's
one of them that you actually know, and I said,
what the fuck? And I freaked out. And the next
time I met with this entire crew, I said, I
just want you guys to know that what that was.
And one part, one of the sound person quit. I
(26:27):
was acutely aware of it was wrong. And somebody from
your world too was working with me on it, and
I was and he was just used to it because
he's used to what you're talking about. And I said
to the crew, this is not This will never happen again.
My name cannot be on something that cannot be a
reflection of me. Like you just know when it's inhumane.
And so you're speaking for the crew from the physical
(26:49):
the lack of breaks, lack of you.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Know, you're in these tropical locations, right and sometimes the
women's cast. The rooms can be like different parts of
these resorts, right, so they're very far away sometimes from
each other. So you'll have a crew that's you know,
carrying several heavy cameras, tons of equipment, lighting all that.
You just manually, they're just firing you off to different
(27:14):
places and then they're like, nope, go back to Bethany's room.
And then we're headed there and they're like, what the hell,
why aren't you have Bethany's room? And we need to
get this scene shut, you know, and it's like, well,
they're carrying all the stuff to try to get it
from the last movie made, you know, and they're just no,
and they're like, okay, well I'm giving my cameraman like
a water break because we just like walked three miles
to get here, so like we're gonna need a second.
(27:35):
You know. There's no consideration of those kind of things,
you know what I'm saying, They don't.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Care And is there any hr there.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Are definitely no HR representatives on site on these trips.
That's what I mentioned in the video. I think that
Bravo should send someone from human resources, some kind of
compliance officer to these to these trips to ensure that
the cast, crew and everyone involved are given their like
adequate break times, are given rest, everyone's being treated humanely
(28:05):
and not being you know, forced to like sit on
a hot boat for four hours. You know what I'm saying, Like, No.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
This is what I said the first time around. I said,
there are no guard rails, there's no lifeguard, there's no
principle in the office. It's just a free free for all.
And it's just a free for all. So what about
the And then the last thing I want to talk
about is like what about the mental health of the
crew and how the crew feels about the subject matter
(28:33):
about the Porsche fight, about the Morocco Brandy Caroline incident,
about the Shannon Badour, about the Scary Island, Like what
is the crew's moral dilemma or are they just machines
that are just don't they don't you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Like, I mean I can speak to the Porsche fight.
I mean they were all extremely upset after that they
were like this is so fucked up, Like we can't
work like this, We shouldn't be having to do this,
you know. And and the real kicker for that was
like Porscha didn't even like acknowledge it, you know, until
she was like made to like because there was like
(29:10):
day a day went by and Porsche had said nothing
to the crew or anything until they like, like you
have to say something. She gave us like very very
very quick little apology that she really clearly wanted to
like breeze through like check. Yeah. So they were very
like put off by that. And yeah, I mean I
can't tell you how many times I've been like that's
(29:33):
been late night at a trip going back to do
producer Cam, like all right, we gotta go back and
get the ladies having fun in their rooms, and like
these ladies are so exhausted a lot of times, like
they just traveled, you know, twenty something hours to get
there too, they haven't gotten a lot of rest. And
I've literally had to tell them like all right, ladies,
I eat everybody up dancing, Let's take some you know,
(29:54):
like who who wants drinks, Let's get some drinks, Let's
have some fun. Get the energy up here, you know
what I mean? Told to tell them, you.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Know, does exhaustion help drama?
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Tired, they're like all dead and they're like okay, they
get up and dance. It's like dance, pony dance. You know.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
Is there any aspect of it where the exhaustion helps
the drama? The alcohol helps the drama like that production
knows that, Like they're tired, so they're going to do
and say stupid shito percent.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
I think that the model of these trips to pack
so much into such a short amount of time, I
think was designed to uh be very exhausting and very uh.
(30:41):
I think they were designed to push people to their limits.
You know what I mean, to push these cast members
to their limits, these long days, long events where a
lot of alcohol is happening.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Yet it's the residual aspect of that is the trips
are designed to push people to their limits. So somebody
has to be filming that creuse not making the same money,
getting the same fame, having the same decisions, power and relevance,
is experienced the same exhaustion, but with no upside. Absolutely, absolutely,
that's what you're saying, because I was trying. I'm trying
(31:12):
to get to you what overall this is for the crew,
and that's what I've now at the end of this
interview come to you are basically saying that all of
this drama that goes on that is making housewives cry
ruin their lives, the desperation, the circular reference. The crew
is experiencing all of it and more because they're lugging
equipment and having to capture it and have to stay
(31:34):
in shitty hotel rooms. But they get none of the upside.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
And dodging plates and knives by their faces, you know,
and can be replaced at a moment's notice without.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
Yeah, so it's all downside while you're watching these other
people drive in rolls royces and you guys are there
to produce it.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Yeah, it's very I feel like I get it.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
I feel like I want to know if there's anything
you have to say that you haven't said.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
They said that you got everything.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
So one discussion has been NDAs because they've been loosely
interpreted and sort of weaponized theoretically, so no one can
talk about their experience, and Bravo says, oh, the NDAs
are not so someone doesn't discuss problems in the workplace.
(32:27):
They're just to protect storyline. But cast members and crew
members are scared that they're on a gag order and
that they'll be sanctioned and punished if they talk because
they're under NDA. But NDAs are not designed so if
someone has a me too incident or experience, is something
that is problematic in the workplace, that you're not supposed
(32:47):
to tell about it. NDAs are supposed to be for
like proprietary information, you know, like don't give our recipe
for the secret sauce or our story exactly. So the
NDA is a discussion, and have you been nervous about that?
You'll be signed an NDA along the way.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
I'm not nervous about that because everything I've been saying
is the truth, you know. So while that may be
a concern for some people, it's just not a concern
of mine quite frankly. Yeah, I think that nothing changes
if nothing changes, So I mean, somebody's got to speak
up and say these things. Somebody's got to bring these
(33:24):
things to light from the point of view of the
producers and the crew members that are seeing this, because
nobody believes the housewife who's you know, been like spiraling
out of control who's been like or been has this
reputation of being difficult or being a slut, or being
stupid or being you know, whatever it is. Whatever reason
you don't like a real housewife for, it's a reason
(33:46):
for you not to believe them when they come out
and say, hey, I've been mistreated. You know. So, I
don't care if you like somebody or not. I don't
care if you agree with their lifestyle. I don't care
if you agree with what they do. And I'm talking
about people in front of the camera talking about people
behind the camera. They should that that just shouldn't happen.
(34:06):
So it doesn't matter who the message is coming from.
It's like, let's believe these people. Let's start believing some
of these people, you know what I mean. Let's start
working at what some of these people are saying and
maybe set aside your feelings about what they did in
their storyline on their show and maybe like taking the consideration, Okay,
maybe two things can be true at one time.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
You are a great messenger, like you actually are doing
so much for the crew and for these women, because I,
as a viewer would be like Daniel Staub, but when
she reached out to me and said, do you know
how many times prostitution whore has been said?
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Said on watch Rappens.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
Live that it was at Bravo Khan that it was
like played over and over, like it's like the girl
who was promiscuous in high school or who slept with
half the hockey team, but then is like abused, like
fully abused, you know, or physical abused, or becomes not
a person anymore. That's the thing that I think is
going on. It's all the girls that have made mistakes,
(35:06):
done stupid things, said stupid things, drank too much, but
too many people weren't you know, gotten many tattoos, look
a certain way that people judge. You know, these are
the girls that I do think are also kind of discarded,
so their message gets muddled. And I think that that's
what you've just said, like that you are the voice
(35:27):
of those people, and that I think is something interesting.
Does that make Does that make s that's the difference,
Yeah or not?
Speaker 2 (35:33):
It does because you know, those people have been like
cast out, you know what I mean, So like a
lot of the time, you know, the viewership will turn
on those people because they're not spoken up positively on
the show anymore. Whatever reason. But it's like this thing
where we're going to keep you. We're gonna keep you here,
We're gonna keep you in a nice car, and we'll
keep you you know what I mean. But you're staying
(35:55):
the right you know what I mean? Yes, yeah, exactly.
In the midst of hearing from all these people, I've
also heard from cast members who are currently on shows
that are going through this ship right now in real time,
you know, realching out saying like I'm going through this
on my show right now for X y Z. So
it's like it's nothing has changed, you know.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
No, A big one said it to me too. People
reached out to me and then but then they got
scared and they wouldn't say anything, and they like said
publicly the opposite. And I got annoyed because I was like, no,
now you're like you called me or you reached out
to me to say what I was doing is amazing,
but then you got nervous and hid behind it, and
when asked in the media what you thought, and you
like denounced it. But you called me privately. That has
(36:37):
happened a lot people have called privately. But yeah, but
that that's that's their privacy.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
Yeah, you understand. I understand, like you got to like
make a living, you know, even people, this is what's
paying your bills. This is why none of the crew
has been speaking out because this is paying their bills,
you know what I'm saying. So I also don't blame
the crew, the cast members who don't want to speak publicly.
Obviously they have a job to keep.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
You know, I think you can actually make a difference,
and I'm going to connect you to people, like there
were conversations where SAG and AFTRA validated everything I was
saying and saying that the door was opened, the bridge
was never linked. But we have a lot, we have
contacts and respect there and you could probably be instrumental
in like helping production crews get the treatment they deserve.
(37:22):
This also, I remember when I had this going on
with the reckoning, teachers were talking about it, like you know,
plumbers were talking about it. People and other industries start
to hear things that start in one industry. So I
actually think you can you can make an impact because
it's more you know, it's a it's more of a
middle class uprising that that you could represent that I
(37:44):
obviously couldn't. So anyway, I just want to thank you Patrick.
Have a great rest of your time in Thailand. Patrick
is joining us from Thailand. It's the middle of the night,
so go get some rest and breathe easy. I think
you did a great job.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Thank you, thank you, thanks. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
Awesome.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
Thank you. What that? What that? What that? What that?
Speaker 4 (38:20):
Hap
Host
Bethenny Frankel
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