April 16, 2025 • 28 mins
From Selling Sunset to The Flipping El Moussas, we get into all of the drama of a life on Reality TV. Heather shares about meeting Tarek, co-parenting, stepping out of the reality spotlight, and MUCH MUCH more.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
Hi, good morning. How are you. Nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you. I like the hearts behind you.
That's cute. Oh, thank you. So where are you?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I am at my house in Newport Beach, California. So
this is my where I do like my meetings and
my podcasts.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
And you know, does it look like a studio? You
think it's cute? Is that a real background? That's a house,
that's my house. Well, yeah, it looks good.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
And so yeah, it looks it looks like you created
a student like a background.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Yeah, it's like a backdrop. Interesting.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Is Newport Beach more crowded now because of the fires?
Because everyone has people moved there, because I know Manhattan
Beach has taken a big turn.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
I think they're They're staying a little closer to Palisades,
but there has been definitely like more activity, busier down here,
and more rentals.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
People are like going into rentals. You look like Kristin
Cavaleri to me, do I yeah, never, no one's ever
said that, no, but yeah, I love her. So I'm like, okay, yeah,
I feel like you look like the color, the coloring,
the yeah, a lot of things, the eyebrows, the hair.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
I feel like you look like her. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Yeah, interesting, okay, So I don't know a lot about you.
I had your husband on yet, and it gets confusing
because you guys have soap because there's so many different
characters and chapters to this saga, and then there's the
TV of it.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Yep, and he talked a lot about you. I remember.
I think he was talking about like boats. There were
boats next to each other.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Was that one of your first dates or something? It
was a while ago, but what was the boat story? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (01:44):
It was our boat story.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Yeah, yep, you're right. So that's where we first met.
So we met. It was July fourth, twenty nineteen. I
was living in LA at the time, and he was
He's always been at oc Boys at Orange County, and
I never came down here because it's like LA people.
You kind of stay in l a totally different, totally
different total. I lived there too, more okay, more than
even the valley. Yeah, valley's a different land.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
The Valley's like Brooklyn to New York, but like that's
a different that's like almost like it's not even the
Hampton's because it's not like everybody goes to that area
from La it's just a different place, like Irvine or something.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
It's just different place exactly. You just don't cross over, right.
And so my girlfriend was like fourth of July, let's
you usually would go to like Malibu, do you like
white party? And she'd let's do something different. Do you
want to go down to Newport Beach and go on
a yacht. I'm like, okay, sure sounds fun. I was
kind of in a place in my life. I was
thirty one, and I'm like, I just want to enjoy
my life. I had been dating, had been single for
(02:41):
about three and a half four months, so not very long,
but I was always in like long relationships, so I
was like, I'm just gonna have fun, sick of getting
like my heart broken. I just was like looking for
my husband at the time, like not looking, but you know,
I was kind of like ready for that next open.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
I was open. And so I was on the boat
having like a great time.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
I'm drinking champagne, like having fun, like flirting with boys,
and then I see my girlfriend on It was Tarak's boat,
and at the time I didn't know it was his boat.
So I went down to his boat said hi, Literally
I was on there for maybe a minute and he
comes over and he's like, Hi, I'm Tark, and I'm
like hi, Like, I know who you are. And I
(03:20):
knew mainly who he was. I knew the show Flip
or Flop, but I had.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Really that's it's so niche like that you because I
think my parents like my parents growing up. Yeah, it
wasn't like I really watched it, but I feel like
people knew that show because it was such a popular show.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
And I had really heard about his divorce though. That's
when like I really heard his name and it was everywhere,
so I knew him more from the divorce. And then
he had actually asked me out on Instagram a few
years prior to me meeting him.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
So when he how long had he been divorced? God,
let's see the timeline.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
So they I think they separated in two thousand and
sixteen and wow a while and we met in twenty nineteen.
But he had reached out to me sometime during that
single period of his life. But he was reach out
to every girl, you know. It was like probably looking
for hot girls on social media. And at the time
I had a boyfriend, so I said, no, I'm thank
(04:16):
you for reaching out, but I have a boyfriend and
you know, I'm not single. So then when he came
up to me on his boat, he was like, I'm tark.
I said, I know who you are. You asked me
on Instagram a few years ago, and he's like, oh shit.
So then he went and like looked at his DMS.
He's like, okay, do you still have a boyfriend? And
I said no. Do you want to go to Paris?
I said no.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
He said do you want to go to Paris? Was
he already going to Paris? No, he wasn't going to Paris.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
He was just like swinging like for the fences, like
trying to like go back or go home.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
And then I said, love that that's who's not going
to be excited by that.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Okay, so you said no.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
But you know, at the time in my life, like
I had dated guys that you know, you date and
you think like, okay, well this is going great, and
then they ghost you and they never talked to you again.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Oh of course, what's going on?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
And I know people have some status, you know, And
so knowing he was on TV he's in that world,
I was like, you know, I'm just I'm not interested like,
I just don't want to go through this again. I
want to get married, I want to be with the
love of my life. I don't want to get hurt again.
And going out with him, I was just like, you know,
all these things in my head. So I'm like, what's
the point. I'm just going to waste my time. But
(05:24):
then he's like, do you want to know it to Vegas?
I said no, I'm not going to go spend the
night anywhere with you. And he's like, well, how about
a date? And I said, well maybe, And then we
were talking. We're kind of starting to get into a
deeper conversation and everyone's parting.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
You know, he has a bunch of people on his boat.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
We're in this like deeper conversation, started talking about his divorce.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
He's sober then, because I think he told me he
was sober. So was he sober then on the boat?
Speaker 1 (05:44):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
I mean, I wasn't really paying attention to that. It
was so fast. There's a lot going on, but him
and I were kind of it was like a moment
where there's so much people are partying, and then it's
him and I like in this corner, really starting to
have this deep conversation and then these young girls came over.
They must have heard us talking, and they go, no,
talking about divorce on this boat, like this is a
(06:07):
fun day.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
And I look at and I'm like, yeah, I'm done.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
And I was like I'm sorry, I'm not dealing with this,
and I left. And now I found out after we
started dating and further on in our relationship that people
on his boat that are now my friends, they're like, oh,
he started sulking. He went downstairs into the room, he
wouldn't come out. We'd never seen him like that. He
was like, so sad that you left the boat because
(06:33):
for like, out of all those years, he met someone
that he had like butterflies, he felt that feeling and
he hadn't felt that because he was just never thought
he'd get married. I never thought he would date anyone
ever again. So he felt something that he hadn't felt
in a really long time.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Wow, that's such a nice story. It's like, put you
bringing me there, you good storyteller. I want to be
on the boat. I want to meet a guy right now.
Like yeah, that's a mez. So what's your age difference?
Six years?
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Six years? Perfect o?
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Yeah, So and that you just had a baby two
years ago. So he has he had two kids, so
now I'm a step mom. So I met the kids
when they were three and eight, and I met them
perfect really early on, like really fast in our relationship.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
And I met his whole family.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
He has a big family there, Lebanese and Belgium, so
it was like very you know, European. So he's like,
You're meeting the whole family and the kids all in
the same night, and I'm like, I come from like
a little family here in California, you know, and I'm
like okay, And I was so nervous to meet the kids,
especially his family, and it was fine, but the kids,
it was like I had never dated anyone with kids.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Before, So for yeah, yeah, that was yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
I came from like, you know, my la life, and
I was filming selling suns at the time.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
I was just in a totally different world.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
And then I never thought I would date a man
that had kids like that wasn't something that I not
I honestly thought I couldn't do it. So I met
the kids all in one night, and the family. His
dad's like trying to feed me, like eleven year food
I'm vegan, so he made me this whole vegan spread.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
He's like, eat this, try this.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
I'm like, this is like my big factory Lebanese wedding exactly,
big fact week wedding was what do we make it?
Speaker 1 (08:08):
You don't eat meat? Yes, we make a lamb. I
make a lamb. I'm and here try this. I'm like okay.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
And I'm like have my dog with me, like my
comfort dog, you know, And I'm like okay. And then
his mom I apparently tark my husband and me. Well,
you know, my husband and his mom got in a
fight before I showed up, and like they had to
go wrangle her in. And then it was it was
just like a mess, and I had no idea anything
was going on. And then his daughter and her cousin
and their friend made up a dance in a song
(08:35):
for me. They had been like practicing and performing all
day and it was tark and how they're sitting in
a tree k I asked, that's like the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
He loves her, he likes her, he loves her.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
They get married, they have a baby, and like I'm
like standing there like, oh my god, what is happening
right now?
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Right and then that was kind of it.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
And I basically like moved in kept an apartment in
LA because I was working and filming up there, and
then I was going back and forth and that was it.
And then he proposed after a year, and like we
just we've been together now married almost four years together
six years.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
You both have TV careers, which I want to hear
about that I want to hear about after. I want
to hear about your career because we're talking to you.
But I'm curious about being in a relationship where both
of you are navigating this BS and the whatever. First
of all the changes in entertainment, which you know, streamers
(09:40):
and network is like dinosaurs, and then also navigating a
relationship during that. It's not as crazy as like housewives
or something. But Selling Sunset had its share of drama.
Drama and like it's toxic. Probably I've never seen it,
but I've seen like clip, you know, yeah, little parts
of it, but like, uh.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
That seems like high drama on the high seas well.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
When we first met, I had just finished filming season one,
so Selling Sunset wasn't really that known yet. It didn't
get big until i'd say season three and during COVID
is when everyone started binging it.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Oh that's right. Yeah, And the drama wasn't that big either.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
In the beginning.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
It was probably actually about real estate in the beginning,
but you just go towards the drama.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
It was more towards real estate, and then obviously, like
natural drama would come up. And but I so when
I left, I'm fast forwarding a little bit. When I
left season seven, like early season seven, I feel like
that's when you were in seven seasons. So yeah, almost
like part of seven. I'm like, there's a whole drama
thing behind that. But I left for maternity to leave,
and then I never went back. And at the time,
(10:46):
I was already filming Flipping al Musas with Taric, so
we had our flipping show and we were filming season
one of that, and then I was filming Selling Sunset
as well at the same time. And then I left
for maternity to leave, and then I never went to
Selling Sunset.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
But yeah, I was I have a question, I have
our question. So I've just I've just reminded of this.
And people always love inside Baseball about reality TV. The
reason in the beginning, it's fresh and it's not such
toxic drama is that it's almost like the roots aren't
as deep, meaning if you meet someone in a little
(11:23):
moment happens, it's a little silly thing about you saying
something rude to them at a table. But seven seasons in,
the drama has babies, and the babies of the drama
has babies, like meaning the drama gets embedded and it's
like you're living these toxic relationships on the show. So
that's why it exponentially gets more toxic. Like for example,
(11:44):
show like Real House was of New Jersey, It's the
first season was pretty actually dramatic with the Danielle on
the table flip. But that notwithstanding, there aren't twenty different
tentacles of drama that are deep rooted.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Is that do you agree? I agree?
Speaker 2 (11:57):
And I feel like when you're with the same women,
because it was all it was like our core group
and we were all working together before the show. It
wasn't like we were cast it on for the show,
and so all we had relationships already. Krishell was the
only one that was brought in in the beginning, and
you know, none of us knew her, so I was
like getting to know her.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
And none of us.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
She's the one who was married to the actor from
This is Us. Yeah, and she's now she's in a
relationship with a woman.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Yeah. She was brought in. Okay, So so.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
You came in all knowing each other, and what who
do you still have relationships with from that group?
Speaker 2 (12:31):
I still talk to Krishell, I still talk to Emma.
Emma was brought in later on. Mary and I have
known each other forever. We still talk. I still talk
with three here and there. She was brought in later
on as well. I still you know, I talked to
all of them except Christine. She's the only one that
I don't keep in touch with. We just you know,
I was always like really the kind of the calm
(12:53):
one at the group. I'd say, like very level headed
and kind of friends with everybody. And I was happy.
I was in a happy relationship. I you know, was
a happy person. I didn't like to deal with like
the fighting and the drama, and so I was, you know,
really didn't deal with a lot of that stuff. But
when I left, i'd say it got worse because the
relationships weren't there anymore.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
It was like, I feel like they are just it
was all drama.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
There wasn't like deep rooted relationships when I was there
and we first started. We're all really friends, and I
feel like TV changed a lot of them, well a
few of them, not a lot of them, but a
few of them.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
I mean, it's funny because people will say, I hear
you know, I'm bashing the thing that made Maybe it's
the common thing when I talk about it.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
It's it's a dumpster. It just is.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
And you could say what you want, Matt, say what
you want. But it also didn't start out as a dumpster.
It's become this toxic waste dump because in the beginning
there would be no paparazzi, and then like let's say,
second or third season, there might be one or two photographers.
But the show I forgot about this. The show themselves,
the producers didn't want to show that part because that's breaking,
(13:58):
that's meta. We are nobody's and they're showing our lives,
So why would we have paparazzi And now the people
are stars on a show. But the show's supposed to
be a reality show about people living moms or sell
you know, selling real estate. When paparazzi and Red carpets
are part of it because it's now famous people, so
it's a little bit like a circular reference. It's hard
(14:20):
to get the freshness back of the Jersey Shore the
first season or even the first couple, you know, so
it's hard to keep people's normal.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
So you guys were real estate brokers.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
You're spot on though with everything, and like they didn't
want to show that side of it because yeah, they didn't.
They didn't want any of our outside lives. So even
like we had assistance, we all had like other things
going on, big brand deals, like other things were coming
in and they didn't show any of that. It was like, nope,
you're a real estate agent. We're like okay, And it's
got hard to actually do your real job because they
(14:49):
were filming so much.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Exactly exactly, and this becomes your job. And that's why
many people end up having these sort of it's a
little different like fake brands, because they have to create
more content to infuse into the show, to stay on
the show and stay relevant, and so then these brands
(15:11):
aren't real, and those brands that aren't real become content
on the show because they become arguments with other people. Wait,
that's not real and you don't really have that and
you're not successful when the person wouldn't have gone and
gotten that brand to begin with if it weren't for
needing content for the show, because just being a mom
is not going to fill the airwaves enough. Just being
(15:34):
a chef, it's gonna be boring. They're gonna want the
drama and what else you do. So it is a
circular reference. And in that way, when people ask if
it's real, what's happening is real? It's but what the
premise isn't real. It's happened the people you're talking to,
what you're talking about, and like, that's not necessarily real.
So I think that's a very interesting thing where reality
TV isn't real because you just wouldn't be having these
(15:56):
dumb arguments in your real life.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
And then they're they're highlighting things that I feel like
as women, you kind of like, Okay, you talk about
it and you move on, and then it's like the
next day they want you to talk about it again. Yeah,
that person's talking about it and it ends up being
bigger and then they're like, oh, you're gonna let her
she said that, And I'm like, what exactly you know,
I didn't know that, and then it turns into a
whole thing and then you want to make good TV, right,
(16:19):
I mean that's what I'm there for.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
No totally, and I mean having been there for seven years,
we can relate to each other a lot where I
bet you thought that everybody was watching this and everybody
knew everything, and I bet you thought this is like
the only thing going on, Like you're out talking about it,
and you're talking about it, and then you see other
casts do it like it's kind of a world and
(16:41):
it almost like after having a baby, your body isn't
here for a while. It takes a while to really
rinse it off of sure, like an X too, like
where you're not thinking about it, thinking about the other
people that are on it, thinking about the headlines, and
then thinking about other people's social media, and then one
day like they become not even in your like I
don't have I really I don't ever watch the I
(17:02):
don't watch the shows at all, but I don't even
think about it.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
I used to think about it a lot.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
It was like right when I didn't go back, is
when I had just had Tristan, and so I was
so focused on you know, being a bait, a mom
to a newborn, and it was right when, like I
think it was right when one of the episodes came out,
and you know, usually afterwards all this shit has talked
about you, and you know you have to kind of
rewatch the drama of what happened and relive it, which
(17:26):
can be really stressful.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
And I wasn't even I was just so like removed
from it.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
But then I'd say it hit me about six months
later when I kind of started feeling like myself again,
where it was like, Wow, I'm no longer on the
show that's exactly part of my life that I lived
for so long. Like you said, it was like almost
like I had to come down from that and like
go through my emotional journey of like I'm no longer
(17:52):
filming with those women anymore, I'm no longer going up
to LA. That's no longer my job, that's no longer
my life, And it was like a huge transition and
then becoming a at the same time. It was a
lot for me in that first like few months six months,
and I'd say I didn't feel like normal after postpartum.
I didn't have postpartum depression, but you know, we all
go through something.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
I'd say it took me about a year.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
But then I'm lucky that I transitioned from selling suns
and I had another show. So it's not like I
went off TV completely because I did the same exact thing. Yeah,
because I hadn't went off Yeah, so I had something
else going on to keep me busy, and I had
my other show. I think when TV it's kind of
like sports, right when you're done, it's just like, oh
my god, now what am I doing with my life?
Speaker 3 (18:45):
But I did that too. The first time I left,
I had the other show. The second time I left,
I just walked, And that was when it was more
like what you were just describing, like really just and
I chose to leave both times. And this was a
crazy thing that I realized in the moment that I
had been on reality TV for a quarter of my
life now of my lifetime, not including the five other
(19:09):
shows anyway. But in the paperwork about you, it says
that you were pushed out. Did you leave or did
they fire you? I did not choose to leave.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
I've never really like went in to depth about this,
just because I have a good relationship still with Netflix, and.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
I'd like to keep it like that.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
So, you know, I've never really gone into like a
deeper discussion about it, but I basically all I can
say is I wanted to come back, and I wasn't
asked back, so but I was filming the other show already,
so you know, I think that there might have been
some upset that I was doing something else on another network.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
We have a good relationship.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
You know, we were in a good place and I'm
grateful for the years and years that I spent with them,
and you know, them giving like us a chance to
have a reality show. You know, it was such a
new thing for Netflix at the time to have a
reality show, and real estate reality shows weren't as big yet.
I mean there was a million what was it called
(20:11):
the Million Million dollars? Yeah, was it that mill? But
that was but that was like one of the bigger
real estate reality shows. Ours was like, how is this
going to do on Netflix?
Speaker 1 (20:22):
None of us?
Speaker 3 (20:23):
No, Well, yes, it was a new genre for them.
And yeah, the thing I'm talking to them about is
as well, Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, so you and your
husband work together, we do.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
So when I first met me, I'll give you a
little like drama tea. But when we when we first
started dating, he was still working with his ex Christina.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
They were filming Flip or Flop Still, right, that was
a big drama. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
I mean they were navigating their divorce and breakup and
they had been divorced for a while. That no, not
a while, but you know a few years. And but
they we're co parenting. But then they didn't talk. So
it was like they only talked about like for the
kids and on the show. Wasn't like they had this
relationship off of TV, so like the cameras would be
off and they'd go their separate ways and that would
(21:11):
be it. And then if anything was for the kids
that they would you know, talk about that and go
to school things. But so when I came in, it
was like, okay, so we're co parenting with this woman,
but we don't like her like I you know, I
was trying to like figure things out. I didn't know
her on a deeper personal level just besides meeting her
with the kids here and there. Obviously things are very
different now, but you know, I came from reality, so
(21:36):
who am I to come in and tell my husband
or tell my boyfriend's time, like be weird that he's
filled me with his ex wife.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
People were like, how do you do it? How do
you deal with It's unbelievable. The whole thing is crazy.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
But I'm like, right, you know, who am I to
come in and tell him what he can and can't do? Right,
that's already what he was doing, that's his career, that's
his life.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
So it's livelihood too.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
I was a very understanding of that, and like, coming
from I think the same kind of world, you know,
I get. I understood, and him and I had our
thing and it was very strong, and I'm like, okay, yeah,
go do your thing, go film, go work, and you know,
make money whatever, And but people could not understand how
I could be in this situation. They still can't understand.
They're like, how are you friends with your with his
(22:17):
ex wife? How are you filming a show with her?
Speaker 1 (22:19):
How are you?
Speaker 2 (22:20):
People just they can't comprehend it. They still can't. Well,
it's been what six.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Years more right? Six years?
Speaker 3 (22:27):
So it's six years and you all work together and
she she's in another relationship.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Yeah, so my husband, So Tark and I got our
show and we filmed two seasons. Second season just finished airing,
and then we all filmed a show together called The
Flip Off, and that that aired and finished airing like
a couple of weeks ago, and that did really well.
So but that was mine and her first time working together.
You know, we had done a few skits, like funny
skits with each other, but we had never gotten to
(22:56):
know each other on that deeper level of working together
and seeing kind of a different side of each other.
It was always like, you know, talking about mom stuff
and the kids, and we text it and we talk
every day. But it's different when you're working with someone
you're seeing a different side of them.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Yes, but here's an interesting thing that I would never
have thought of or been able to like bring, or
to bring to this audience. This is the interesting thing
about reality TV, and in this case it's positive. So
in reality TV, there's always a world where something happens
and it's hard for you to process what's happening at
the same time as knowing that the audience would want
to know about it, and you almost feel fraudulent in
(23:34):
your own body. And I think of Vicky Gumbelson when
her mom, I think died and she was on the phone,
and she allowed the cameras. Because it's not that just
that this is I have the chills. It's not just
that this is the job that you are paid to
and have to do. It's that you're also aware that
you wanted to do well and if you're a ready
in this, you might as well give them the good stuff.
You can't be half pregnant. You decided to do this experience,
(23:55):
and so when something happens, that's what makes it messed
up for a person. And that's what happens in those
months that you're getting over it, is that you're sitting
there like, am I a fucked up person that I'm
thinking also at the same time as being upset about this,
as that this is something that should be filmed, and
you become almost like, you know, you're like pouring yourself out,
(24:16):
but it's already happening. And so that's a thing. Do
you agree with that part so far?
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (24:20):
And I think also like social media too, Like, you know,
we show so much of our lives on reality show
and then like on social media, but then I do
like to keep certain things private, but then I don't know,
it's like this weird I don't know.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
Likewise, I have a private life on right, But I'm
getting somewhere with this. So what I'm saying is, in
normal life, if you're working in an office with your ex,
that would be weird and nuanced.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
At least here you're acutely.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Aware of the fact that the audience is going to
be very intrigued and interested in this dynamic. So it
makes a the working together totally seemingly palatable because you
both are like it's like a wink, like we both
know that they all want to know how this thing's going.
So there's also a leaning into being kind to each other,
(25:12):
but also a lean in, leaning into sassing each other
a little bit because that's what it is, and also
a work, so it's a little bit of like a
just ad water you guys are That's what I would,
That's what I'm envisioning that.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Do you understand I'm saying?
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Yeah, And I think you know, people are like.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
How did you guys say yes to this?
Speaker 2 (25:28):
I'm like, it is fascinating, right, I mean it is
people are like they not only are like, oh, you
guys look alike, and then how how are you guys
doing this?
Speaker 1 (25:36):
How do you even co parent, How do you talk?
How do you like each other? How are you friends?
Speaker 3 (25:39):
Like?
Speaker 1 (25:40):
What do you mean? You know? They just eat it
up so many they eat it up, they eat it up.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
It's like, but you guys are business people on a show,
so you're already doing a show, so you might as
well use go where the seshat. It's very Yeah, it's
a competitive spit. That's what I'm trying.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
That's the MODI.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
That's the center I'm trying to get to is that
you're already doing it. So you spilled it in the car.
Let's keep driving. That's what I'm saying. We're all in this,
so we might as well just go for the people
what they want. Yeah, so I get it, and I
think gets smart. If you don't do TV, then you
shouldn't do that. But you're in the TV space, all
three of you. All of you aren't doing it for charity.
(26:15):
You want to make money and be successful and get
back on Netflix too and all this.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
So that's that's what I have to say about that. Yeah,
I'm doing absolutely And are you friends with her? Yeah?
You know, people ask me that.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
I never know how to answer it, because friendship to
me is like you know, you have like your best
core girlfriends, like your deep friendships with someone and her
and I would say, we're building our friendship still, you know,
friendship for me is like someone you can like trust
fully and tell anything to and like in the end,
like she's still my husband's ex wife, right, And as
(26:50):
much as I really like her and I really really
do like her and she really likes me, it's still
you know, I have loyalty to my husband in the end,
and I think if I was like telling her everything,
I would tell my best friend.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
It just doesn't make sense.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
But we're we're i'd say friends, but not on like
that deep, deep level.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
You know. It's a very.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Honest answer, and like that's literally divorce and co parenting goals.
So I feel like you don't need to get an
A plus on the test. This you're getting an A
Like this is it's hard.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
I'm like, I have such a big heart and like
I really do like her, and I'm like sometimes like
I don't know how to answer that question because I
hate being like, no, we're not friends because we are
to an extent, But like I said, it's like there's
things I just wouldn't go to a certain place with her.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
But do we go to like dinners? Yes? Do we laugh, yes,
do we hug yes?
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Do we like talk about you know, yes we do,
but to an extent, and.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
You can say we have a very good and strong, healthy,
we have a very healthy and good relationship. Like Yeah,
that's what it sounds like, that's all anybody ever could want.
And the kids are always the most important and sounds
like you're doing the best.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Yeah for them.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Your husband is very lucky, like he worked on in
the in the landscape of this reality TV sphere, it's shot,
it's astounding,
Hi, good morning. How are you. Nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you. I like the hearts behind you.
That's cute. Oh, thank you. So where are you?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I am at my house in Newport Beach, California. So
this is my where I do like my meetings and
my podcasts.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
And you know, does it look like a studio? You
think it's cute? Is that a real background? That's a house,
that's my house. Well, yeah, it looks good.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
And so yeah, it looks it looks like you created
a student like a background.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Yeah, it's like a backdrop. Interesting.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Is Newport Beach more crowded now because of the fires?
Because everyone has people moved there, because I know Manhattan
Beach has taken a big turn.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
I think they're They're staying a little closer to Palisades,
but there has been definitely like more activity, busier down here,
and more rentals.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
People are like going into rentals. You look like Kristin
Cavaleri to me, do I yeah, never, no one's ever
said that, no, but yeah, I love her. So I'm like, okay, yeah,
I feel like you look like the color, the coloring,
the yeah, a lot of things, the eyebrows, the hair.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
I feel like you look like her. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Yeah, interesting, okay, So I don't know a lot about you.
I had your husband on yet, and it gets confusing
because you guys have soap because there's so many different
characters and chapters to this saga, and then there's the
TV of it.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Yep, and he talked a lot about you. I remember.
I think he was talking about like boats. There were
boats next to each other.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Was that one of your first dates or something? It
was a while ago, but what was the boat story? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (01:44):
It was our boat story.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Yeah, yep, you're right. So that's where we first met.
So we met. It was July fourth, twenty nineteen. I
was living in LA at the time, and he was
He's always been at oc Boys at Orange County, and
I never came down here because it's like LA people.
You kind of stay in l a totally different, totally
different total. I lived there too, more okay, more than
even the valley. Yeah, valley's a different land.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
The Valley's like Brooklyn to New York, but like that's
a different that's like almost like it's not even the
Hampton's because it's not like everybody goes to that area
from La it's just a different place, like Irvine or something.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
It's just different place exactly. You just don't cross over, right.
And so my girlfriend was like fourth of July, let's
you usually would go to like Malibu, do you like
white party? And she'd let's do something different. Do you
want to go down to Newport Beach and go on
a yacht. I'm like, okay, sure sounds fun. I was
kind of in a place in my life. I was
thirty one, and I'm like, I just want to enjoy
my life. I had been dating, had been single for
(02:41):
about three and a half four months, so not very long,
but I was always in like long relationships, so I
was like, I'm just gonna have fun, sick of getting
like my heart broken. I just was like looking for
my husband at the time, like not looking, but you know,
I was kind of like ready for that next open.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
I was open. And so I was on the boat
having like a great time.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
I'm drinking champagne, like having fun, like flirting with boys,
and then I see my girlfriend on It was Tarak's boat,
and at the time I didn't know it was his boat.
So I went down to his boat said hi, Literally
I was on there for maybe a minute and he
comes over and he's like, Hi, I'm Tark, and I'm
like hi, Like, I know who you are. And I
(03:20):
knew mainly who he was. I knew the show Flip
or Flop, but I had.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Really that's it's so niche like that you because I
think my parents like my parents growing up. Yeah, it
wasn't like I really watched it, but I feel like
people knew that show because it was such a popular show.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
And I had really heard about his divorce though. That's
when like I really heard his name and it was everywhere,
so I knew him more from the divorce. And then
he had actually asked me out on Instagram a few
years prior to me meeting him.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
So when he how long had he been divorced? God,
let's see the timeline.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
So they I think they separated in two thousand and
sixteen and wow a while and we met in twenty nineteen.
But he had reached out to me sometime during that
single period of his life. But he was reach out
to every girl, you know. It was like probably looking
for hot girls on social media. And at the time
I had a boyfriend, so I said, no, I'm thank
(04:16):
you for reaching out, but I have a boyfriend and
you know, I'm not single. So then when he came
up to me on his boat, he was like, I'm tark.
I said, I know who you are. You asked me
on Instagram a few years ago, and he's like, oh shit.
So then he went and like looked at his DMS.
He's like, okay, do you still have a boyfriend? And
I said no. Do you want to go to Paris?
I said no.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
He said do you want to go to Paris? Was
he already going to Paris? No, he wasn't going to Paris.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
He was just like swinging like for the fences, like
trying to like go back or go home.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
And then I said, love that that's who's not going
to be excited by that.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Okay, so you said no.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
But you know, at the time in my life, like
I had dated guys that you know, you date and
you think like, okay, well this is going great, and
then they ghost you and they never talked to you again.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Oh of course, what's going on?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
And I know people have some status, you know, And
so knowing he was on TV he's in that world,
I was like, you know, I'm just I'm not interested like,
I just don't want to go through this again. I
want to get married, I want to be with the
love of my life. I don't want to get hurt again.
And going out with him, I was just like, you know,
all these things in my head. So I'm like, what's
the point. I'm just going to waste my time. But
(05:24):
then he's like, do you want to know it to Vegas?
I said no, I'm not going to go spend the
night anywhere with you. And he's like, well, how about
a date? And I said, well maybe, And then we
were talking. We're kind of starting to get into a
deeper conversation and everyone's parting.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
You know, he has a bunch of people on his boat.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
We're in this like deeper conversation, started talking about his divorce.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
He's sober then, because I think he told me he
was sober. So was he sober then on the boat?
Speaker 1 (05:44):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
I mean, I wasn't really paying attention to that. It
was so fast. There's a lot going on, but him
and I were kind of it was like a moment
where there's so much people are partying, and then it's
him and I like in this corner, really starting to
have this deep conversation and then these young girls came over.
They must have heard us talking, and they go, no,
talking about divorce on this boat, like this is a
(06:07):
fun day.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
And I look at and I'm like, yeah, I'm done.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
And I was like I'm sorry, I'm not dealing with this,
and I left. And now I found out after we
started dating and further on in our relationship that people
on his boat that are now my friends, they're like, oh,
he started sulking. He went downstairs into the room, he
wouldn't come out. We'd never seen him like that. He
was like, so sad that you left the boat because
(06:33):
for like, out of all those years, he met someone
that he had like butterflies, he felt that feeling and
he hadn't felt that because he was just never thought
he'd get married. I never thought he would date anyone
ever again. So he felt something that he hadn't felt
in a really long time.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Wow, that's such a nice story. It's like, put you
bringing me there, you good storyteller. I want to be
on the boat. I want to meet a guy right now.
Like yeah, that's a mez. So what's your age difference?
Six years?
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Six years? Perfect o?
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Yeah, So and that you just had a baby two
years ago. So he has he had two kids, so
now I'm a step mom. So I met the kids
when they were three and eight, and I met them
perfect really early on, like really fast in our relationship.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
And I met his whole family.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
He has a big family there, Lebanese and Belgium, so
it was like very you know, European. So he's like,
You're meeting the whole family and the kids all in
the same night, and I'm like, I come from like
a little family here in California, you know, and I'm
like okay, And I was so nervous to meet the kids,
especially his family, and it was fine, but the kids,
it was like I had never dated anyone with kids.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Before, So for yeah, yeah, that was yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
I came from like, you know, my la life, and
I was filming selling suns at the time.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
I was just in a totally different world.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
And then I never thought I would date a man
that had kids like that wasn't something that I not
I honestly thought I couldn't do it. So I met
the kids all in one night, and the family. His
dad's like trying to feed me, like eleven year food
I'm vegan, so he made me this whole vegan spread.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
He's like, eat this, try this.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
I'm like, this is like my big factory Lebanese wedding exactly,
big fact week wedding was what do we make it?
Speaker 1 (08:08):
You don't eat meat? Yes, we make a lamb. I
make a lamb. I'm and here try this. I'm like okay.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
And I'm like have my dog with me, like my
comfort dog, you know, And I'm like okay. And then
his mom I apparently tark my husband and me. Well,
you know, my husband and his mom got in a
fight before I showed up, and like they had to
go wrangle her in. And then it was it was
just like a mess, and I had no idea anything
was going on. And then his daughter and her cousin
and their friend made up a dance in a song
(08:35):
for me. They had been like practicing and performing all
day and it was tark and how they're sitting in
a tree k I asked, that's like the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
He loves her, he likes her, he loves her.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
They get married, they have a baby, and like I'm
like standing there like, oh my god, what is happening
right now?
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Right and then that was kind of it.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
And I basically like moved in kept an apartment in
LA because I was working and filming up there, and
then I was going back and forth and that was it.
And then he proposed after a year, and like we
just we've been together now married almost four years together
six years.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
You both have TV careers, which I want to hear
about that I want to hear about after. I want
to hear about your career because we're talking to you.
But I'm curious about being in a relationship where both
of you are navigating this BS and the whatever. First
of all the changes in entertainment, which you know, streamers
(09:40):
and network is like dinosaurs, and then also navigating a
relationship during that. It's not as crazy as like housewives
or something. But Selling Sunset had its share of drama.
Drama and like it's toxic. Probably I've never seen it,
but I've seen like clip, you know, yeah, little parts
of it, but like, uh.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
That seems like high drama on the high seas well.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
When we first met, I had just finished filming season one,
so Selling Sunset wasn't really that known yet. It didn't
get big until i'd say season three and during COVID
is when everyone started binging it.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Oh that's right. Yeah, And the drama wasn't that big either.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
In the beginning.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
It was probably actually about real estate in the beginning,
but you just go towards the drama.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
It was more towards real estate, and then obviously, like
natural drama would come up. And but I so when
I left, I'm fast forwarding a little bit. When I
left season seven, like early season seven, I feel like
that's when you were in seven seasons. So yeah, almost
like part of seven. I'm like, there's a whole drama
thing behind that. But I left for maternity to leave,
and then I never went back. And at the time,
(10:46):
I was already filming Flipping al Musas with Taric, so
we had our flipping show and we were filming season
one of that, and then I was filming Selling Sunset
as well at the same time. And then I left
for maternity to leave, and then I never went to
Selling Sunset.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
But yeah, I was I have a question, I have
our question. So I've just I've just reminded of this.
And people always love inside Baseball about reality TV. The
reason in the beginning, it's fresh and it's not such
toxic drama is that it's almost like the roots aren't
as deep, meaning if you meet someone in a little
(11:23):
moment happens, it's a little silly thing about you saying
something rude to them at a table. But seven seasons in,
the drama has babies, and the babies of the drama
has babies, like meaning the drama gets embedded and it's
like you're living these toxic relationships on the show. So
that's why it exponentially gets more toxic. Like for example,
(11:44):
show like Real House was of New Jersey, It's the
first season was pretty actually dramatic with the Danielle on
the table flip. But that notwithstanding, there aren't twenty different
tentacles of drama that are deep rooted.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Is that do you agree? I agree?
Speaker 2 (11:57):
And I feel like when you're with the same women,
because it was all it was like our core group
and we were all working together before the show. It
wasn't like we were cast it on for the show,
and so all we had relationships already. Krishell was the
only one that was brought in in the beginning, and
you know, none of us knew her, so I was
like getting to know her.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
And none of us.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
She's the one who was married to the actor from
This is Us. Yeah, and she's now she's in a
relationship with a woman.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Yeah. She was brought in. Okay, So so.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
You came in all knowing each other, and what who
do you still have relationships with from that group?
Speaker 2 (12:31):
I still talk to Krishell, I still talk to Emma.
Emma was brought in later on. Mary and I have
known each other forever. We still talk. I still talk
with three here and there. She was brought in later
on as well. I still you know, I talked to
all of them except Christine. She's the only one that
I don't keep in touch with. We just you know,
I was always like really the kind of the calm
(12:53):
one at the group. I'd say, like very level headed
and kind of friends with everybody. And I was happy.
I was in a happy relationship. I you know, was
a happy person. I didn't like to deal with like
the fighting and the drama, and so I was, you know,
really didn't deal with a lot of that stuff. But
when I left, i'd say it got worse because the
relationships weren't there anymore.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
It was like, I feel like they are just it
was all drama.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
There wasn't like deep rooted relationships when I was there
and we first started. We're all really friends, and I
feel like TV changed a lot of them, well a
few of them, not a lot of them, but a
few of them.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
I mean, it's funny because people will say, I hear
you know, I'm bashing the thing that made Maybe it's
the common thing when I talk about it.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
It's it's a dumpster. It just is.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
And you could say what you want, Matt, say what
you want. But it also didn't start out as a dumpster.
It's become this toxic waste dump because in the beginning
there would be no paparazzi, and then like let's say,
second or third season, there might be one or two photographers.
But the show I forgot about this. The show themselves,
the producers didn't want to show that part because that's breaking,
(13:58):
that's meta. We are nobody's and they're showing our lives,
So why would we have paparazzi And now the people
are stars on a show. But the show's supposed to
be a reality show about people living moms or sell
you know, selling real estate. When paparazzi and Red carpets
are part of it because it's now famous people, so
it's a little bit like a circular reference. It's hard
(14:20):
to get the freshness back of the Jersey Shore the
first season or even the first couple, you know, so
it's hard to keep people's normal.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
So you guys were real estate brokers.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
You're spot on though with everything, and like they didn't
want to show that side of it because yeah, they didn't.
They didn't want any of our outside lives. So even
like we had assistance, we all had like other things
going on, big brand deals, like other things were coming
in and they didn't show any of that. It was like, nope,
you're a real estate agent. We're like okay, And it's
got hard to actually do your real job because they
(14:49):
were filming so much.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Exactly exactly, and this becomes your job. And that's why
many people end up having these sort of it's a
little different like fake brands, because they have to create
more content to infuse into the show, to stay on
the show and stay relevant, and so then these brands
(15:11):
aren't real, and those brands that aren't real become content
on the show because they become arguments with other people. Wait,
that's not real and you don't really have that and
you're not successful when the person wouldn't have gone and
gotten that brand to begin with if it weren't for
needing content for the show, because just being a mom
is not going to fill the airwaves enough. Just being
(15:34):
a chef, it's gonna be boring. They're gonna want the
drama and what else you do. So it is a
circular reference. And in that way, when people ask if
it's real, what's happening is real? It's but what the
premise isn't real. It's happened the people you're talking to,
what you're talking about, and like, that's not necessarily real.
So I think that's a very interesting thing where reality
TV isn't real because you just wouldn't be having these
(15:56):
dumb arguments in your real life.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
And then they're they're highlighting things that I feel like
as women, you kind of like, Okay, you talk about
it and you move on, and then it's like the
next day they want you to talk about it again. Yeah,
that person's talking about it and it ends up being
bigger and then they're like, oh, you're gonna let her
she said that, And I'm like, what exactly you know,
I didn't know that, and then it turns into a
whole thing and then you want to make good TV, right,
(16:19):
I mean that's what I'm there for.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
No totally, and I mean having been there for seven years,
we can relate to each other a lot where I
bet you thought that everybody was watching this and everybody
knew everything, and I bet you thought this is like
the only thing going on, Like you're out talking about it,
and you're talking about it, and then you see other
casts do it like it's kind of a world and
(16:41):
it almost like after having a baby, your body isn't
here for a while. It takes a while to really
rinse it off of sure, like an X too, like
where you're not thinking about it, thinking about the other
people that are on it, thinking about the headlines, and
then thinking about other people's social media, and then one
day like they become not even in your like I
don't have I really I don't ever watch the I
(17:02):
don't watch the shows at all, but I don't even
think about it.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
I used to think about it a lot.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
It was like right when I didn't go back, is
when I had just had Tristan, and so I was
so focused on you know, being a bait, a mom
to a newborn, and it was right when, like I
think it was right when one of the episodes came out,
and you know, usually afterwards all this shit has talked
about you, and you know you have to kind of
rewatch the drama of what happened and relive it, which
(17:26):
can be really stressful.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
And I wasn't even I was just so like removed
from it.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
But then I'd say it hit me about six months
later when I kind of started feeling like myself again,
where it was like, Wow, I'm no longer on the
show that's exactly part of my life that I lived
for so long. Like you said, it was like almost
like I had to come down from that and like
go through my emotional journey of like I'm no longer
(17:52):
filming with those women anymore, I'm no longer going up
to LA. That's no longer my job, that's no longer
my life, And it was like a huge transition and
then becoming a at the same time. It was a
lot for me in that first like few months six months,
and I'd say I didn't feel like normal after postpartum.
I didn't have postpartum depression, but you know, we all
go through something.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
I'd say it took me about a year.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
But then I'm lucky that I transitioned from selling suns
and I had another show. So it's not like I
went off TV completely because I did the same exact thing. Yeah,
because I hadn't went off Yeah, so I had something
else going on to keep me busy, and I had
my other show. I think when TV it's kind of
like sports, right when you're done, it's just like, oh
my god, now what am I doing with my life?
Speaker 3 (18:45):
But I did that too. The first time I left,
I had the other show. The second time I left,
I just walked, And that was when it was more
like what you were just describing, like really just and
I chose to leave both times. And this was a
crazy thing that I realized in the moment that I
had been on reality TV for a quarter of my
life now of my lifetime, not including the five other
(19:09):
shows anyway. But in the paperwork about you, it says
that you were pushed out. Did you leave or did
they fire you? I did not choose to leave.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
I've never really like went in to depth about this,
just because I have a good relationship still with Netflix, and.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
I'd like to keep it like that.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
So, you know, I've never really gone into like a
deeper discussion about it, but I basically all I can
say is I wanted to come back, and I wasn't
asked back, so but I was filming the other show already,
so you know, I think that there might have been
some upset that I was doing something else on another network.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
We have a good relationship.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
You know, we were in a good place and I'm
grateful for the years and years that I spent with them,
and you know, them giving like us a chance to
have a reality show. You know, it was such a
new thing for Netflix at the time to have a
reality show, and real estate reality shows weren't as big yet.
I mean there was a million what was it called
(20:11):
the Million Million dollars? Yeah, was it that mill? But
that was but that was like one of the bigger
real estate reality shows. Ours was like, how is this
going to do on Netflix?
Speaker 1 (20:22):
None of us?
Speaker 3 (20:23):
No, Well, yes, it was a new genre for them.
And yeah, the thing I'm talking to them about is
as well, Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, so you and your
husband work together, we do.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
So when I first met me, I'll give you a
little like drama tea. But when we when we first
started dating, he was still working with his ex Christina.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
They were filming Flip or Flop Still, right, that was
a big drama. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
I mean they were navigating their divorce and breakup and
they had been divorced for a while. That no, not
a while, but you know a few years. And but
they we're co parenting. But then they didn't talk. So
it was like they only talked about like for the
kids and on the show. Wasn't like they had this
relationship off of TV, so like the cameras would be
off and they'd go their separate ways and that would
(21:11):
be it. And then if anything was for the kids
that they would you know, talk about that and go
to school things. But so when I came in, it
was like, okay, so we're co parenting with this woman,
but we don't like her like I you know, I
was trying to like figure things out. I didn't know
her on a deeper personal level just besides meeting her
with the kids here and there. Obviously things are very
different now, but you know, I came from reality, so
(21:36):
who am I to come in and tell my husband
or tell my boyfriend's time, like be weird that he's
filled me with his ex wife.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
People were like, how do you do it? How do
you deal with It's unbelievable. The whole thing is crazy.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
But I'm like, right, you know, who am I to
come in and tell him what he can and can't do? Right,
that's already what he was doing, that's his career, that's
his life.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
So it's livelihood too.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
I was a very understanding of that, and like, coming
from I think the same kind of world, you know,
I get. I understood, and him and I had our
thing and it was very strong, and I'm like, okay, yeah,
go do your thing, go film, go work, and you know,
make money whatever, And but people could not understand how
I could be in this situation. They still can't understand.
They're like, how are you friends with your with his
(22:17):
ex wife? How are you filming a show with her?
Speaker 1 (22:19):
How are you?
Speaker 2 (22:20):
People just they can't comprehend it. They still can't. Well,
it's been what six.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Years more right? Six years?
Speaker 3 (22:27):
So it's six years and you all work together and
she she's in another relationship.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Yeah, so my husband, So Tark and I got our
show and we filmed two seasons. Second season just finished airing,
and then we all filmed a show together called The
Flip Off, and that that aired and finished airing like
a couple of weeks ago, and that did really well.
So but that was mine and her first time working together.
You know, we had done a few skits, like funny
skits with each other, but we had never gotten to
(22:56):
know each other on that deeper level of working together
and seeing kind of a different side of each other.
It was always like, you know, talking about mom stuff
and the kids, and we text it and we talk
every day. But it's different when you're working with someone
you're seeing a different side of them.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Yes, but here's an interesting thing that I would never
have thought of or been able to like bring, or
to bring to this audience. This is the interesting thing
about reality TV, and in this case it's positive. So
in reality TV, there's always a world where something happens
and it's hard for you to process what's happening at
the same time as knowing that the audience would want
to know about it, and you almost feel fraudulent in
(23:34):
your own body. And I think of Vicky Gumbelson when
her mom, I think died and she was on the phone,
and she allowed the cameras. Because it's not that just
that this is I have the chills. It's not just
that this is the job that you are paid to
and have to do. It's that you're also aware that
you wanted to do well and if you're a ready
in this, you might as well give them the good stuff.
You can't be half pregnant. You decided to do this experience,
(23:55):
and so when something happens, that's what makes it messed
up for a person. And that's what happens in those
months that you're getting over it, is that you're sitting
there like, am I a fucked up person that I'm
thinking also at the same time as being upset about this,
as that this is something that should be filmed, and
you become almost like, you know, you're like pouring yourself out,
(24:16):
but it's already happening. And so that's a thing. Do
you agree with that part so far?
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (24:20):
And I think also like social media too, Like, you know,
we show so much of our lives on reality show
and then like on social media, but then I do
like to keep certain things private, but then I don't know,
it's like this weird I don't know.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
Likewise, I have a private life on right, But I'm
getting somewhere with this. So what I'm saying is, in
normal life, if you're working in an office with your ex,
that would be weird and nuanced.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
At least here you're acutely.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Aware of the fact that the audience is going to
be very intrigued and interested in this dynamic. So it
makes a the working together totally seemingly palatable because you
both are like it's like a wink, like we both
know that they all want to know how this thing's going.
So there's also a leaning into being kind to each other,
(25:12):
but also a lean in, leaning into sassing each other
a little bit because that's what it is, and also
a work, so it's a little bit of like a
just ad water you guys are That's what I would,
That's what I'm envisioning that.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Do you understand I'm saying?
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Yeah, And I think you know, people are like.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
How did you guys say yes to this?
Speaker 2 (25:28):
I'm like, it is fascinating, right, I mean it is
people are like they not only are like, oh, you
guys look alike, and then how how are you guys
doing this?
Speaker 1 (25:36):
How do you even co parent, How do you talk?
How do you like each other? How are you friends?
Speaker 3 (25:39):
Like?
Speaker 1 (25:40):
What do you mean? You know? They just eat it
up so many they eat it up, they eat it up.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
It's like, but you guys are business people on a show,
so you're already doing a show, so you might as
well use go where the seshat. It's very Yeah, it's
a competitive spit. That's what I'm trying.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
That's the MODI.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
That's the center I'm trying to get to is that
you're already doing it. So you spilled it in the car.
Let's keep driving. That's what I'm saying. We're all in this,
so we might as well just go for the people
what they want. Yeah, so I get it, and I
think gets smart. If you don't do TV, then you
shouldn't do that. But you're in the TV space, all
three of you. All of you aren't doing it for charity.
(26:15):
You want to make money and be successful and get
back on Netflix too and all this.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
So that's that's what I have to say about that. Yeah,
I'm doing absolutely And are you friends with her? Yeah?
You know, people ask me that.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
I never know how to answer it, because friendship to
me is like you know, you have like your best
core girlfriends, like your deep friendships with someone and her
and I would say, we're building our friendship still, you know,
friendship for me is like someone you can like trust
fully and tell anything to and like in the end,
like she's still my husband's ex wife, right, And as
(26:50):
much as I really like her and I really really
do like her and she really likes me, it's still
you know, I have loyalty to my husband in the end,
and I think if I was like telling her everything,
I would tell my best friend.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
It just doesn't make sense.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
But we're we're i'd say friends, but not on like
that deep, deep level.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
You know. It's a very.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Honest answer, and like that's literally divorce and co parenting goals.
So I feel like you don't need to get an
A plus on the test. This you're getting an A
Like this is it's hard.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
I'm like, I have such a big heart and like
I really do like her, and I'm like sometimes like
I don't know how to answer that question because I
hate being like, no, we're not friends because we are
to an extent, But like I said, it's like there's
things I just wouldn't go to a certain place with her.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
But do we go to like dinners? Yes? Do we laugh, yes,
do we hug yes?
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Do we like talk about you know, yes we do,
but to an extent, and.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
You can say we have a very good and strong, healthy,
we have a very healthy and good relationship. Like Yeah,
that's what it sounds like, that's all anybody ever could want.
And the kids are always the most important and sounds
like you're doing the best.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Yeah for them.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Your husband is very lucky, like he worked on in
the in the landscape of this reality TV sphere, it's shot,
it's astounding,
Host
Bethenny Frankel
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