February 4, 2019 • 52 mins
Mom Brain? Burnout? Depending on the woman, the mental and emotional exhaustion of motherhood can take many forms. In this episode, Katie talks to her friend, new mom, and actress Troian Bellisario (Pretty Little Liars), about her experiences. They also discuss balancing their new mom identities while trying to maintain their own individuality.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hi, everybody, and welcome back to Katie's Crib. In this episode,
we are talking about a very familiar feeling for a
lot of parents, and that feeling is called burnout. Okay,
it's not just feeling stressed out. It is a long
lasting feeling of stress, exhaustion. It leads to emotional detachment,
feeling generally ineffective. It is a very real thing, you guys,
(00:25):
and it also sometimes it can be difficult to admit
that you're going through it because so many of us,
me especially, want to act like we've got this whole
mother thing, motherhood thing very you know, covered, and we're
all just showing what we think our representatives should be.
It's an easy trap to fall into, and especially in
this day and age, when we feel like we have
to be going seven. Our phones are always on, we're
(00:47):
always reachable. We're being pulled in so many different directions
work life, home life, responsibilities as a mom, a wife,
a friend. The lift goes the list. Excuse me, guys,
that's the burnout. Talking goes on and on on um
and I think, on top of it all, I think
how much we're working these days makes it really hard
to really sit down and think about who the hell
(01:10):
we really are. And I think motherhood is the biggest
sort of identity shift and it has been so far
in my life. And I was really interested to bring
on my dear dear friend Troy and Belisario, who is
a close friend for a very long time, a beautiful
new mother, an exceptional human being, to talk about this.
(01:31):
And we're here to talk about your experiences of being
a new mom and going through how we talk about
and deal with this new mom life. So let's get started. Hi,
Troy and Hi? I was like, when do I talk? Also,
you have to understand it's this new mom thing is
so recent for me that I was listening to you
(01:52):
speaking in the opening and totally imagining myself as I
have with every other episode of this podcast, Pregnant behind
the Wheel of my are just listening and like just
being like, Katie, give me everything, tell me everything I know.
I honestly was like, waiting, when is they too? Like? Guys,
Try and I are very good friends, and I literally
been sitting here being like, when is it too soon
(02:14):
to ask? Try? And Belt sorry to be a guest
on my podcast, And I think I've made it, like Pat,
like I think we're past the fourth trimester. We are, absolutely,
We're just hilarious because I just finished as I passed
the fourth trimester. I finished that like Happiest Baby on
the block book Perfect. We had Dr Carpon as a guest,
which I obviously loved, and I read the book like voraciously.
(02:36):
I devoured it and I was like, oh, that's gonna
be so helpful. And the last line is like and
so when you're out of the fourth trimester, it will
be a whole new set of things. And I was like,
I'm literally out of the fourth trimester tomorrow, glad I
put stop reading this book, and this ship doesn't end.
Sometimes it occurs to me that like, my kid's going
to be a teenager, Like, oh my god, like that
when he at one, my kids started hitting people all
(02:59):
the time, included, And I texted the doctor like so
freaked down. She was like, well, Lucy, hasn't spit in
your face and said, fuck you mom yet? And I
was like, oh my god, I'm going to happen. That's
like a thing. Yeah, like we're going to be raising
human beings. Um so, speaking about you being a relatively
new mom, yes, how in the hell are you holding up. Um,
(03:19):
you know, it's very funny. Last night I went out,
I of course, mom Brane, like I thought I had dinner.
It's a real thing. I thought I had a dinner.
So I asked our wonderful nanny to come and watch her.
And then of course the dinner was like next week.
And so I was asking Patrick, my husband, is so
(03:40):
something you would have never done before? Having a right,
That's what mom Brane is You guys like it is
literally making mistakes you would never like, showing up on
the wrong place and the wrong day. It's crazy. I mean,
I I fully the the entire drive over here. I
had to check my calendar like three times. I was like,
it is at Katie's house and it is at one thirty.
I know this, but I have to keep on checking. Um.
(04:02):
So he was like, it's okay, let's go take a
night out. Let's go see a movie. And it was amazing.
We went out, we saw a movie that we were
standing outside and he we've been talking a lot about
if there's anything he can do to help me with
my exhaustion or anything like that, and I was I
just kind of said, I was like, you know, when
you're a little kid and you're so tired you just
(04:23):
want to cry. I was like, so if you see
me crying, it's just that kind of like like, I'm
just a little kid right now. I'm just so tired
to cry, you know. But it's it's it's awesome and
it's totally to be expected. You're saying this ship and
I'm literally looking at you being like, I am I
gonna have a second kid? Why? Because you're just gonna
(04:46):
think of that? Yeah. Yeah. I'm literally sitting here being like, Wow,
I don't life is funny either burnout brain or mom brain,
which sounds like we're gonna get into this. We have
a combo plant going on, We're to do um. I
am sitting here being like, am I ever going to
have a second child? That is so scary to even ask,
(05:07):
And I'm asking all of my listeners on Katie's Crib
when you think if you think one, will it happen?
But it is. It is interesting too because I actually
we we know, we now know a lot of people
who have chosen to because they are in the mode
of the baby. You know, they're like they're choosing to
have bang it out, to bang it out exactly like
and and that to me, I think, particularly because Patrick
and I we have so many years in between us
(05:28):
and our siblings both above and below. I love hearing this.
Yeah oh yeah, so like it's very funny. We're like
almost identical. So Patrick, his eldest sister is six years
above him, as younger sisters six years and they're really tight.
They're all super tight. And then my my older brother
is six years above me. My younger brother is six
years below me. So we have the exact same mirroring
(05:49):
in our family. And we really loved being the middle child,
having an older sibling that we really looked up to,
and also having a younger sibling that was like our baby.
Oh my god, this is so relieving. So you don't
feel inherently because of how you were raised and how
you feel good with your yeah, the family structure, you
don't feel rushed. No, no, no, no, I don't feel rushed.
(06:10):
And also, like I think it's awesome when siblings are
super close together. I've just never had that, you know.
It's like my my siblings also like we were never
in the same class or like even in school together.
You know, it's like we were all in elementary school,
middle school, or high school. Like, so we moved through.
From an outsider's eye, it sounds like you're doing good
because you made it to a movie last night, which
(06:31):
is fucking epic, Like that's really impressive. Well, that you
look great, But it's really about people in my life, Patrick,
my therapist, my friends, my parents who have all been
encouraging me either like asked for help if you need
a night awesome. We haven't talked about that in a long,
hot minute on this show. That is really the thing.
(06:53):
And this is what we talk about as far as
like we'll get into this a minute, but this whole millennials.
You and I are both millennials. I'm on the I
think I'm the first year of it. I was born
an eighty two and you're more than I don't know
where you are, but you're in the millennial thing. But
there's this whole thing about millennials burning out and always
working hard, busting ass. It's never enough, you know, go
(07:17):
go go, go, go, go go. We came of age
at the cell phone, so you're reachable all the time.
You should be able to work and it it makes
motherhood hard because it feels like we should just always
be kicking ass and taking names, and really it takes
a lot of fucking help and it's so hard. Well
it's wild because and I find this, particularly with the phones,
(07:37):
that I really I really don't want her to have
screen time me either. And I mean, look, she's four
months old right now, so good time, you're doing great.
I'm doing great so far, although it is really tough
when I want to take a bunch of photos of
her and I'm just sorry ignoring, but but so i
have my phone somewhere near me, and I'm breastfeeding like
(08:00):
a lot during the day, and I noticed that like
when I'm breastfeeding, I just want to be with her
and I want to be present. I want to be
looking at her, and I can feel whether it's on
my amphone, I just feel buzzing, buzzing, buzzing, And people
who don't have babies or don't know obviously, they don't
know that I'm with her, like they don't get why
it's not and they're not responding right away. Yeah, and
(08:23):
it's and and also it's so crazy because right now
she's at a time where she can't sit up on
her own. She I can lay her down, but after
you know, a minute or two of looking at a thing,
she wants to be onto something else. So it's it's
totally constant. And really the only breaks that I get
her when I put her down to sleep, um, you know,
in her naps, and who knows if that will be
(08:44):
five minutes or an hour um, And so they asking
for help whether it's just like you know, Patrick, can
you hold her for an hour while I go on
a ugon so like I can get out and like
sweat today that it really I find that when I
come back her and I pick her up, it's like
a battery that's been recharged. Suddenly, I'm like not to planet,
(09:05):
I'm not you know that is it to replenished completed,
you guys, this is I'm not replenished or I am
Can we because I started as a hashtag, because we're
making up work? Can you please just yeah, you're not. Also,
I'm applauding you for movies, and I'm applauding you for
(09:25):
not looking your phone breastfeeding because my mom used to
be like, you're not putting the phone near his head
while your breastfeeding the whole time, six times a day,
Like I feel like the radio waves. I'm like, oh mom,
I'm looking at my fucking cell phone the entire time
I was breastfeeding. It's horrible. It's not horrible, but I
did have I think where it's like come on, like, well,
it's my cellphone is always near me, so like what
about me? And then I was like, well, the brain plate,
(09:47):
it's not you're doing, it's she still has space in there.
So I do remember being so relieved though, Like my supply,
my milk supply went down and someone had said, well
are you getting Are you looking at your phone while
you're pumping at work? Because the stress will make it
so that you make less milk, And that was one
(10:07):
as soon as I I think it was Kristen Bell
actually with him, she would say, like, you have to
go and like literally meditate while you pump. It's the
only way that milk is going to come out like
it feels stressed fucking crazy. Okay, guys, I want to
take a little break here to discuss the app that
I've been telling you guys about once again. You guys.
It is called drop spelled d r o P. If
(10:29):
you haven't downloaded yet, oh my gosh, please do it.
Is a must. It is making my life so much easier.
All you need to do you download the free app,
Yes I did say free. You link your Debitter credit
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so for a whole foods and like so many others.
(10:51):
And after just a few trips to the store, then
you're able to redeem your points for gift cards at
all of these places. It's like cyclically amazing. So we're
member to use my code Katie's Crib. Then you get
a five dollar Starbucks gift card immediately just for signing
up and linking your card again. The code is Katie's Crib. Okay,
let's get back to Katie's Crib. I don't know if
(11:13):
you guys listening have read this article. If you haven't,
I really encourage you too, because I feel like a
lot of the listeners are all millennials. But there was
this popular BuzzFeed article by Anne Helen Peterson in January
called how Millennials became the Burnout Generation, which just is
angering that title it is. I sent it to you
and what did you think. Immediately Immediately, I was like,
(11:34):
there's no way I'm touching this. This isn't true. And
then I read it and I was like, oh, this
is so accurate, you guys. The article talks about this
widespread feeling of burnout among millennials, the generation of adults
board between eighty one and ninety six. It breaks down
some of the factors contributing to this, such as, you guys,
the unstable economy and job market, the intensive parenting that
(11:54):
trained us to be in the constant state of working,
a generation of Type A students who have become now
Tie A parents. Um, first and foremost, had you feel
this burnout? Oh God? Also just that last sentence of
like the type A people that are going to become
the Type A parents. Oh wow. So I mean it's real,
(12:15):
it's so really, it's really real. And I couldn't help it. Literally,
the minute she came out of me, the first thing
I saw were her fingers, and I was like, she's
gonna be a pianist. And it was like and I
saw her legs, and she's going to be a runner
and a dancer, and I was like stopping, stop putting out,
but it's hard because we do that is the way
that we are trained to work and to commit ourselves.
(12:38):
You know, it's there's this whole long thing I've been
reading in this book. Well we're going to talk to
the author in a few episodes from now, but it's
about how you know, our parents were baby baby boomer generations.
So they were like, go out, we'll see you at
dinner and call offus that call us if anyone's bleeding.
We don't give a fuck, Like best of luck to you.
Go get on your bike and ride two miles to school,
(12:59):
like it doesn't matter. Our parents really went against that,
and when they raised us, it was like over parenting.
You're not going to get for a lot of us.
You know, it was very the term helicopter parenting came along,
and now here we are the product of that. You know,
you can have it all. You're going to be the
best mom in the world, and you're going to be
super successful in your career, and you're never going to
(13:20):
show anyone that you're fucking losing your mind while you're
doing it, and you're gonna be reachable by your phone, um,
and you're going to rule your child to be at
Stanford by the age of five or whatever is totally
But the problem is is that kids need to be bored.
They need to practice riding their bike at whatever age
(13:41):
you feel like is safe for them to get to
school at night at dusk, because at some point they
need to be adults. And it's like, oh my god.
Um anyway, we're very new moms, so we don't have
to deal with that yet, thank god. UM So, how
do you feel like we're talking? We've been going back
and forth between mom brain and burnout, which you and
I have both of. What fucking days it am? I
(14:09):
at the right time, in the right place. I'm deplenished
all see you guys listening. Some of the signs of burnout.
In case you're sitting here listening thinking it's not you,
here are the chronic signs of burnout. Chronic fatigue, insomnia, forgetfulness,
impaired concentration and attention. Physical symptoms include chest pain, dizziness, headache.
So I got a lot of those. Increased illnesses and functions,
(14:30):
cold flues. How many Z packs have you guys taken
this year? Guys? Loss of appetite, anxiety, depression, anger, loss
of enjoyment, not wanting to go to work or spend
time with family, friends, pessimism, isolation, detachment, feelings of apathy
and hopelessness, increased irritability, lack of productivity, poor performance great
literally check those like sorry, it's like I don't think
(14:52):
I can handle anymore. Um. It's it's funny because that, yeah,
the way that our parents raised us, this feeling that
you always have to be honor always bettering yourself. I
mean that I struggle with a lot, and recently, the
most helpful thing I say it's helpful because I'm I'm
hoping to God that it will be helpful is um.
(15:13):
But it's certainly been beneficial to me so far is meditation.
It's I was on a great streak as a nears
resolution that I have dropped it at the end of
But you know what, actually, I because I just started
back up when I was my last couple of months
of pregnancy. I was doing like vedic meditation twenty minutes meditation.
(15:35):
It's where you're given a mantra. Okay, I always think
about like the in any hall where Jeff Goldbloom's like
I forgot my mantra. That was always me. I was
always like, oh my god, I'm not at the call
ask okay, but uh so that was amazing when I
(15:57):
didn't have a child. And now, like I was saying,
when she goes down for a nap, and it could
be do you meditate with her? So I am, Well,
what I'm realizing is that if I put my phone down, uh,
and I don't do that. Breastfeeding is almost a type
of meditation because I don't know what it's going to
be done. I don't know when she's done. I literally
(16:17):
just have to sit there and engage with her or
not and just be quiet and breathe until she's done.
Because she gets I've noticed that she gets very distracted,
whether it's a light or a sound or a barking dog,
and then she'll stop, but then she'll want to go back.
So if I have any of that, like the next
thing she gets up, she gets frustrated. So breastfeeding has
been like a very centering, meditative state for you totally.
(16:41):
It was for me too. Well. No, I was on
my phone for a lot of it, but when I
was pumping, I was off my phone for a lot
of it. And now it's over, and God, I was
supposed to meditate. In two thousand nineteen, I did like
a good fifteen days in a row. I forgot well
I can actually, I mean I actually have been doing
because I also love the Sam Harris podcast, and he
came out with an app called the Waking Up Podcast,
(17:04):
the Waking Up app which is really linked to because
I'm on Headspace. People love Headspace, people loves try Insight,
but the Sam Harris one is really good because it
also has these things that you can listen to to
talk about why it's beneficial. I mean they have he is.
It's just Sam Harris talking about like free will versus premeditation.
(17:27):
Like it's really interesting. But so you find a meditation
and like running you said, are things which might healthy meditation,
Like I have to I have to exercise, whether that's
just even putting her in a carrier and going on
a hike. I know you're very good at that on
your Instagram, You're good. It's like the only thing I
know how to post. I'm just like here, I am
on the same she's on like a mountaintop with your
(17:49):
baby and a stroller or like in a carrier, just
like getting after it because I just I get punchy.
If I'm in the house, I get super punchy. And
then you know, Patrick comes home the end of like
a workday or something like that, and I'm just like,
we're gonna talk to anybody but the dog and somebody
who can't tap back, like and I kind of lose
my and He's like, okay, I'll be I'll be with
(18:11):
our daughter. Um. Yeah, but that's really helpful. I find
I love that we need to do that. And it's
like when when during all of the burnout job situations
that we're doing like, I just I think that that's
why for me, it's about finding if you can't find obviously,
twenty minutes a day, twice a day, like I couldn't
(18:31):
keep it up with a new baby. But I found
a different way to meditate, which was I you know,
I knew she was going to go to sleep if
I put her on a carrier and I went out
and I would walk without headphones and I would just
like look a look at look at a freaking flower.
Yeah exactly, Or when I'm breastfeeding, just be like, I'm
going to sit here and be with her. Because you
notice it's the thought patterns that rise up that you're like, oh,
(18:53):
this is the cycle of ship that's just always spinning
in the back of my head. And if I never
actually just take time to listen to it, then you
find it affects you in weird ways. So that's this
is very helpful reminder to me. Something we don't often
talk about is this thing called invisible labor and emotional
labor of being a mom. So like and this was
(19:15):
brought up in the article too, and you, guys, you
should read this article. It's really fascinating for your millennials
out there. I think I'm the oldest millennial on the block.
What was the year again, two guys, I'm a group.
Something we don't talk about is this, like I said,
this invisible labor and emotional labor of being a mom.
(19:35):
So the routine tasks involved with household, childcare, mental and
emotional exhaustion, which I think is also adding to the
burnout and is mom brain. But like I was reading that,
it's not like you get to do less work because
of your job. After your day job, you know what
(19:56):
I mean. It's like you're basically working two jobs right now.
You're an actor, your producer or director. You do all
of those things. They take up a lot of hours
your day. You're also a mom. You're also running a household.
As helpful and amazing as our husbands are, they truly are.
But like the person who knows that at eleven am
today was my son's sixteen month appointment, and the person
(20:17):
who packed his snack bag, and the person that knew
that he had to come home and have lunch after
he had his shots, and where the motion is in
case he has an allergic reaction or he has a
bad reaction shots. That's me. That's not my husband, even
though my husband's super fucking involved. So I just added
all of this ship on top of me also being
an actor, hosting this podcast, hosting other things, running a
(20:39):
theater company. How in the funk are we supposed to
do this? Like, how are you dealing with it? Because
you're very new. I'm super new, and I'm still in
the dealing with it, which I guess we're always in. Uh.
It just told me that there was motion detective, and
all you want to do is look at your and
I want to look at my and is she in
(20:59):
or she um? So the way that I'm dealing with
it is like I'm realizing that I'm we as human
beings were limited. You know exactly what you said. We
feel like we just tack on being a mom to
all of these things, or tack on all of these
things to being a mom. And I want to be
(21:19):
there for her all the time, but that's not possible
because I end up like it's kind of what the
phrase that I use is like I become an empty
well because that I'm somebody, Like I'm somebody who needs
to work. I love working. I love being creative, so
are you. And you want her to see that, and
I want her to see that. And I find that
(21:40):
if I don't fill up my creativity well by you know,
even if it's meditation or exercise or when you know,
I go get coffee with my writing partners so we
can talk about the new draft of a script. Um.
Then I returned to her and I don't have anything
to give her, literally, like my creativity stores are low,
(22:01):
and all I want to do is just like end
up putting like a toy in front of her and
being like, oh, I hope that that, you know makes
you not want to cry for the next thirty minutes,
but it won't like otherwise, I'm if I feel good
and I'm refilled, I want to engage with her. I
want to say, like, oh, what are you looking at?
Are you looking at that light? Now you're looking at
the other light, You're looking at the shiny thing that's new.
Oh my god, You're able to bend over in a
(22:23):
completely different way. I kind of think it's like the
opposite of Like I always ask people who have two
or three kids now, I'm like, how could you love
another baby as much as you love your first or whatever?
And people always say it's incredible, But like your heart is,
like your heart just get bigger, right, to just include
more people. And as much as I would like to
(22:43):
say that, I have been able to get bigger at
what life has thrown at me, which is now motherhood
on top of all the things I was also doing
for my career, for my husband, for my family. You know,
I don't think it's possible, Like I just feel like,
I just feel like it's never been more important to
like take breaks, read a book, um, unplug, go, turn
(23:08):
off your phone, go for a walk, meditate, all of
the whatever thing that is for you to do. Like
when I go see a play and I get a
nanny and I or a babysitter, or if I can't,
like if Adam and I we have like you know what,
we're at our nanny threshold this week. We can't do
another friendlier Saturday night out. It's too expensive. This is ridiculous. Um,
(23:28):
but we really need to connect and we want to
go see theater because that's something for us that really
fills us up with joy. It's like we call in
those favors, like I call in you know, friends who
will come. My brother will come and put just watch it.
He's already asleep. You just watch TV. It's like he
doesn't let me go. Yeah, you know, but I've never
felt more that breaks for me are the most important
(23:52):
thing to be a better mom to my kid. Yeah,
because you know you can't. I want to figure out
a good way to a good way to say this,
but it was something that I was talking about with
my therapist the other day that you know, in order
to love our children, we cannot They are the center
of everything for us, but they can't also be the
(24:15):
only thing. It's too much pressure. It's too much pressure
for them. Well now when we're supposed to be raising
them to leave. Yes, you know what I mean, Like
if they're doing a like a job of making I'm hoping,
Like when I describe the person I would like to
help support, independent is a word I use. So they
can't be the only thing in my life, because then
(24:36):
my life is going to be over when they don't
have their own talking well. And also they will feel
that guilt of leaving you. They'll be like, oh my god,
my mom is entirely dependent on me for meaning and
purpose in her life, and that's crushing, crushing. I have
family members that are totally kids that have that. UM.
So we're getting into a little bit. Our identity is
moms and for some, like we're talking about, it's it's
(24:59):
an all encompassing part of their lives. UM. And I
think there's this for you and I being millennials and
feeling this need to succeed, Like do you feel that
pressure right now as a new mom feeling this need
to succeed as a mom? Oh my god. So I
used to whenever there was like a new like actress
who was having a moment, I used to have, you know,
(25:21):
like I wouldn't even like name their names, but like
they'd crop up and whatever and I'd immediately start to Google.
I was like, well, when did they start acting? Like
so I know, it's like, oh, they started. There were
four they were like in the wound. Now whenever there's
like somebody knew, I'm like, yo, is she a mom?
Does she have kids? Or has she just selfishly pursued this?
(25:43):
And I'm like, four months into this that is yeah,
but you're not wrong. Yeah, And because now when I'm
trying to figure out, like you do I get to
go to a play in New York? You do? I
get to go you do. But it's wild to consist.
But once amade thing is that you're asking yourself a
little bit right now, right because I mean like, look,
(26:03):
I have a year and a half year old. But
let me tell you, honey, if I'm so experienced, I'm
not that experienced either, because but you have you do it. Yeah,
you do it, and you figure out how to do it,
and you figure out how to make it, how to
make your work work with your situation, and it involves
asking like help you already know that part try and
(26:24):
that's huge. I was like really hard to ask, Like
it's super like I feel like we're both two women
who were like, oh, we got it, we got it,
we can do it in our own like and motherhood
has been the biggest thing for me. Like I was
so weak after I had Albie, and I was in
such a bad way mentally, and I just I was,
I was like I I literally I don't think I've
(26:44):
ever said I can't do this to people, And motherhood
was the thing for me. I was like, I can't
do this, Like this is so fucking hard and and
and it's not like it's act like I've done harder things,
um meaning like like I've done you know, I mean
I haven't run a marathon so and that would not
be it, but like I've struggled and I haven't been
(27:05):
able to pay my rents and I had no money
and I was broken, things like that. But motherhood, for
some reason, the mental identity shift was really fucking hard
for me. Well maybe it's not that you can't do this,
but maybe it's that you can't do this the way
that you are accustomed to doing it. And I find
that for me, that to planet for me. That's that's
(27:28):
what I'm starting to learn, is that I used to
my parents used to call it, you know that like
everybody calls it this, but like they used to always
refer to me, is burning the cannel on both ends.
It used to be like try and stop it. Then
my whole life too, because I would go back to
my room, I would study until three in the morning.
I would wake up at six in the morning, and
I would get up and do all these other things
for like student counsel. I'd be in the play, and
(27:50):
i'd be on a soccer team like whatever, and it
just wouldn't end. And then my parents would just go,
you're gonna get You're gonna make yourself be sick in
order to just take a break and being a mom.
I can't do that anymore. I can't literally now that
I'm breastfeeding. I did one of those days where I
was like, oh, I just won't pump, like I'll just
run to this, this, this and this, And I got
home and I was like in tears because my my
(28:13):
boobs were rocks and you just didn't take fifteen minutes.
I had to pump with me in the car, and
I was like, I'll make it, it's fine. Like what
was I rushed? Like, I don't understand what I was
deep in trying to make happen because for some reason,
the even the idea of strapping the hands free bra
on clicking and all the fucking pump parts. You're just like,
I can't fucking do it. I couldn't, But no, you're
gonna have to do it because otherwise you're gonna end
(28:34):
up with rock tits and it's so painful and so terribleful. Um,
what do you think of the idea that motherhood is
a job. Because there's this genius and it almost brought
me to tears passage I'm going to read it listeners,
so close your eyes if you're one of those people
that likes to close their eyes while they listen to
stuff that's better than me. But there's this passage from
(28:55):
Year Yes by Shawna Rhymes that expresses her views on
the subject. Shawna says, being a mother there is not
a job. Stop throwing things at me. I'm sorry, but
it is not. I find it offensive to motherhood to
call being a mother a job. Being a mother isn't
a job. It's who someone is, It's who I am.
You can quit a job. I can't quit being a mother.
I'm a mother forever. Mothers are never off the clock.
(29:16):
Mothers are never on vacation. Being a mother redefines us,
reinvents us, destroys and rebuilds us. Being a mother brings
us face to face with ourselves as children, with our mothers,
as human beings, with our darkest fears of who we
really are. Being a mother requires us to get it
together or risk messing up another person forever. Being a
mother yanks our hearts out of our bodies and attaches
(29:37):
them to our tiny humans and sends them out into
the world forever hostages. It's so true. That is right,
and that is why our identity is shifting. Absolutely absolutely,
it's it's there is always going to be no matter
where I am in the world, no matter how fine
she is or how old she is, there's going to
(29:59):
be a part of my brain that's wondering is she warm?
Is she happy? Is she fed? Is she safe? And
that never goes away exactly like she said, it never.
You can't quit that job. You don't ever stop worrying,
And it does actually reconnect me. Did you think about
this ship when you were like, I'm like, did you know?
Didn't neither? It didn't either. I literally was just talking
to somebody yesterday and I was like, do you think
(30:20):
I didn't think about becoming a mom enough? And she said,
which I'm so grateful for. She said, no, you just
you couldn't have thought of this because you didn't experience it.
You never didn't know if you had, if it had
occurred to you, it wouldn't have made a difference. But now,
as I think I told you last him, like, I
see women crossing the street on their cell phones, drinking
(30:40):
and iced coffee, and I just know. I'm like, I
can smell that you don't have a child at home.
I know, and I don't resent you for it, but
you don't know what you have right now because you
are just in your own world. And that's fine, and
that's wonderful. And that's an experience that I've had. I
had for thirty two years of my life was in
my own world, and now I'm literally like in somebody
(31:01):
else's world, and it's something else is more important than
anything else. But we do need the other things, which
I love that you brought up to fill up our well.
But I really the identity shift really is and it's
so cheesy and lame, and I wish it was more complicated.
Than this, but people are like, your priorities really change,
and it could not like I just have one thing
(31:23):
that comes above it all, Like I just meaning like
I just his health and his well being and his
safety and his happiness are more important than my own.
Like it's so fucking crazy and I can't I don't
know if that's right or wrong, but it's just like
(31:44):
how I feel like it's just like I he's just
my true responsibility. And I've always felt, well, Adams, my responsibility,
my dog is my responsibility, my parents and my responsibility.
I'm a very responsible millennial. But I've never felt that's
so true to be the case until I had a kid,
And like you guys know who were listening, it wasn't
(32:05):
like that for me right away, And I want to
talk about if that was for you, if your identity
shift happened really quickly. Because I did not like being
a mom right away, and I did not like my
I feel bad saying I didn't like my kid right
away because he wasn't you know, he was just like
a pooping, crying bob. But meaning, I just was like,
what the funk is this stranger? And I didn't feel
(32:26):
maybe I was even resentful to the identity shift. I'm
not sure, but I didn't take to it right away
at all. And then all of a sudden, at like
two months, I got struck hard with this bolt of
lightning of love for this kid. And that's when I
started to feel oh no, oh no, oh no, my
(32:46):
my sort of like blase, I could give a shit
about this turned into anxiety of like, oh my god,
now I'm worried, like now I'm worried that my love
is outside of my body and like to worry about
this kid and I love him a lot, like that's
now in my new scary, so scary. Did you feel
(33:07):
connected to her right away? Did you feel motherhood? I mean,
when I first saw you, I was like, I think
I saw you. She was like six weeks older, so
I didn't even know, but I was like, oh my god,
Troy and Bell, SORRYO, you are a mother in the
most beautiful I mean, I don't know if it was,
but it looked fucking easy or maybe I don't know
(33:28):
what that is. I don't know. I think I think
it's interesting. I probably have experienced a latent um, you know,
like I I don't know if it's postpartum depression of
any kind, but I've experienced it in a very delayed sense.
I know someone it was six months. Yeah, oh yeah,
(33:49):
well it was because during my pregnancy I wasn't really
you know, we we were surprised by the fact that
I was pregnant. We were ecstatic, but also nine months
is a long time to thinking about it and just
be like, wow, how is this going to change our
life and what's going to happen? And and then also
(34:09):
there was the like very hilarious, which I know that
we've spoken about. I had always had the expectation for
some reason. Maybe it's because I was surrounded by brothers
growing up that I was going to have a boy.
So when we found out that it was going to
be a girl, I was we haven't talked about this.
I was floored. I was shocked. Were you worried? Of
course I was worried because I was thinking about my
relationship with my mother. I was thinking about, honestly, like
(34:31):
my history with my eating disorder. This horror, this is
all of your ship staring right literally, thank you great,
that's why I mean, that's why she's here. It's so true,
also hilarious for many reasons, but it's so true but
also like hilarious. I don't the one time I did. Ever,
(34:52):
I had a dream once that I had a girl
and I met her in in a club. I saw
this like blonde dancings like beautiful, a year old blonde
and like she and I went out and I was like,
oh my god, that's my daughter. This is before I
was pregnant. And she turns around and she's like, Mom,
what are you doing here? Get away from me? And
I'm like, I just want to hang out with you, honey,
(35:12):
and she was like and I think I think she
called me the C word. I think she was like,
she's like, it's not your time. You're too old to
be here. And I woke up and I turned to Patrick.
I was like, our daughter is so mean, and he
was like, you're not even pregnant. What are you talking about?
The one like, so my imaginings of a girl are
just so you're gonna hate me. And so I don't
(35:33):
even know if mentally I could, you know, I could
have any sort of expectations. I just didn't understand. I
didn't grow up with girls. It was such a foreign,
alien landscape to me. And thankfully I had a really
wonderful group of women around me. Um, and as I've
gotten older, I've become more and more better friends with women,
(35:55):
which is just right. Also, Mom has even made that
probably stronger, so much stronger, and has it really strengthened
your I feel like, does it change your relations with
your mom? Well? Her coming and change my relationship because
a I finally understood so much of my mother's opinion
and I was like, oh, right, you were somebody before me.
(36:18):
She'll probably need to be thirty three before she realizes that,
but yeah, I was somebody before her, and now I'm
just her mom to her for the next three years
or whenever she gets context. Um, But it totally changed it. Also,
it's just nice to be able to see my mother
give love to her in a way that's not burdened
by our thirty threes of experience, three three years of experience,
(36:41):
you know, Like, because to me, it's like my mom
touches me, and it's just it's it's latent. There's so
much in that touch and it's so much history. She
touches her, and I'm just like, you love her, you
just love her. She loves her, She loves her. I
ran into your mom and she was just like. I
was like, Wow, this woman is into being She won't
is that word she she won't use granmar? Yeah, excuse me. Yeah,
(37:03):
my mom was not using grandma either. Yeah. I think
that was like the first thing when we told her
that I was pregnant. She was like, I'm not going
to be grandma. It's like, if that's what you're worried about, Sure,
I see where your priorities are. Sure my mom's the
same boat. My mom was like absolutely not. My mom
is not being called grandma. We're still sorting it out.
And I was like, Mom, you better figure it out.
Like the kid has like a good twenty word vocabulary,
(37:24):
like your need to figure it out. But your question
was did I was? I immediately connected. Yes. So, um
when when the birth happened, Uh, it was very funny
because I what I said about it is that Patrick
(37:47):
looked at me and he was like, honestly, it's it's
as if nobody told you that you had a baby
inside of you. I was I was screaming, I was laughing,
I was crying. I was shocked. And I kept on
training him and saying like, oh my god, Patrick, it's
a baby. And he was like, I know, and I
was like, no, to baby, And I thought, I don't
know what I thought. I thought it was gonna be
like a sketch of a baby, or an I owe
you of a baby, like, but she was there. She
(38:08):
had ten fingers, she had ten toes, she had her ears,
she had her eyes like and so I was, uh, like,
I am trying not to cry right now. Um she
Immediately I just wanted to. I didn't want to be
apart from her. Ever, I couldn't stop staring at her.
I felt immediately loved, responsibility, like adoration for her. She
(38:29):
was just she was awesome, like in the original sense,
like the biblical sense of the words, like this huge, amazing. Yeah.
I just couldn't believe it. And now it was almost
like it was an idea too or something. And then
she came out and it was like it became so real. Yeah,
because it didn't make sense. It was like, Okay, great,
we're gonna have a daughter that's lovely and sweet and
(38:51):
like romantic. What the capital are like, We're having a daughter?
How wonderful? And then suddenly I was like, oh no,
that's her, Like I'm I'm always going to know her face,
you know, hopefully if I'm lucky, for the rest of
my living days. Like, um, and that's wild that The
way that Patri're going to talk about it is, Um,
(39:12):
your whole life, you've known your familial relations, right, you
know what your brother's face looks like because you've seen
it every day growing up. This is a familiar relation
that you didn't know what they looked like until now
in your life. And I was just bowled over by
that that that there could be somebody who was so
a part of us and so apart will be a
part of our lives and we only get to meet
(39:32):
them now. Um, I know, after your whole experience like
you are, now now I'm getting to meet this person
and it's awesome. And so I think that I the
love was overwhelming very early on, and now I think
the the depression or the postpartum experience that I'm having
(39:56):
is balancing, like you're talking about that, Like, oh God,
now that I know that crushing love and adoration for somebody,
how do I balance that? How do I balance that?
When like it's really hard, I mean, like to be honest,
right now, I'm listening to Michael Pollen's how to change
your mind about, you know, doing psychedelic drugs, And I'm
just like I need to be in the jungles and
I want to I can't be here with you breastfeed.
(40:18):
Let's get on a plane right now and go to
I gotta go to brew to the Amazon. I mean seriously,
but your life is inalterably changed. You totally changed, and
that is that is something that I still four months in,
have not wrapped my head around, and I'm constantly being
smacked upside the head by it every day, you know,
(40:40):
like how to juggle it all? How to juggle it? Yeah?
How did it say? Like this is an important life
experience to me, I need to do it. I need
to figure out how to bring her with. It's all
asking for help. Yeah, that's it, I think. I mean
in my one year and three months experience, I'm known
is that it's all help, I think, and hopefully everyone listening,
(41:02):
like your support system of friends, family, aunties. Again, Like
it's like Dr KRP said, this horrible millennial thing of
like you can have it all and you can do
it all is bullshit because this is especially the idea
of motherhood, because this is truly something that five people
would raise one child, and that is just not the
(41:24):
truth anymore. And so when you would get some sort
of opportunity that you loved, some creative fulfillment or something,
or a job that paid your bills or whatever the
hell it is, you could leave the baby with aunt's,
grandma's someone who also unconditionally loved your kids. Now now
I'm just paying for that, and financy is amazing, but
like I have to, like my parents don't live here,
(41:46):
like we're in a totally new But also, like you're saying,
you reach out to your friends, you reach out to
your community, and that also like, let's be honest, I'm
not you know, saying that you don't you want to
take away people's time, but like it's elevating their experience too,
Like I have a lot of friends that you love
hanging out with her, and they would treasure the opportunity
(42:06):
to get to spend some time. And that means so
much to me. To get to you, it's just like
I'm gonna go, you know, have a bath upstairs, like
talking about the Fourth Chemists, can you hold her while
I actually go to the bathroom for the first time today,
I get ready. I just read some instagram like motherhood
is Motherhood's for you if you don't mind changing your
tampon while a three year old toddler stares you in
(42:27):
the face, because like, that's my normal. Because like when
your kids starts walking and doesn't let you go to
the bathroom by yourself and you're trying to change your
tampon and the kids just unrolling the toilet paper roll
while you're changing your tampon, You're just like, this is
just what motherhood is. Um, how have you had any
sort of thing about getting in touch at all with
the mom, with the person you were before you turned
(42:49):
into a mom see your breastfeeding now. So I don't
know if you have you gone out on a rager yet,
because that's you know, yes. So here's the hilarious thing.
As I god, Patrick and I like, I had a
meltdown the other night because I was just like, well,
first of all, that was my biggest meltdown when I
was pregnant, was that, like and not that Look, I'm
(43:12):
not advocating for doing illicit drugs, but like I was
pregnant suddenly and I was like, I've never had a
hunter ass Thompson experience in Vegan I never had I have.
I never got like it too late for us. I
don't think that we can do it. We can do it.
But I was like, you know, every year of my life,
all of my friends and usually my husband have gone
to Burning Man, and I could never go because I
(43:33):
was on the show. And then this was actually supposed
to be my year, past year to go to Burning Yeah,
and like all my friends were gearing up and they're like,
it's gonna be amazing, and I was pregnant. You're not going,
you can come, And I was like, dude, I am
eight and a half months pregnant. It is boiling hot
in the desert. Y'all gonna be doing your thing and
I'm just gonna be sitting here having people like on
(43:53):
mushrooms touch my belly and be like your fertility goddess.
Like I'm not down for that. So God bless it.
Maybe in the future, um, but but I did have
this like I can't do this. I have to be
responsible for somebody else because A the using my body
to grow and and now I'm using my body to
feed her, and so I do have this like and
(44:16):
now that I'm doing I put her down at seven,
and I do a dream feed at eleven. Even if
I drink a glass of wine, you know, like, or
even if I, you know, like, put her down, drink
a glass of wine, wait a few hours for it
to pass out of my system or pump whatever. It's like,
I'm still very limited in my experience of who I
used to be when I could go out. And Patrick
(44:37):
always kind of reminds me, he's like that you never
really went out and got wasted. I'm like put into
I want to. And it's now the point that you
can know. That's the very we're not used to being
told no, this is bullshit. Yeah, that's the wild thing.
Well here's what you have to look forward to when
you go no, it's great. No one goes harder than
a group of moms who have a nanny's or mother
(44:59):
in law's, moms or husband's or significant others watching their
baby for the night. I went out with a mom
crew last Monday night and I threw up all night long,
and I haven't done that in a hundred years. I
was so fucking trashed. Because the point is is like,
you're still like I can go so hard, Like I
used to, except you can't because you're exhausted and you
have like five tequila drinks and you end up throwing up.
(45:22):
But anyway, Um. The other thing I oh, I was
thinking about was one time I did get really really
really really they say the new rule is, and don't
quote me on this, I'm not a doctor. Um, if
you can drive, you can nurse. So like like, so,
you don't really want to be buzzed, but if you've
had two glass of wine and you've had a whole
bowl of pasta, most likely you would be fine to
(45:43):
drive a car in two hours and you can nurse. Whatever. Um.
One time I was so I couldn't take it anymore.
Like I had given this child my body for a
year and then I've been nursing for a year and
it was like enough already. So I got completely wasted
while nursing, and I pumped. I was like, I was
just pumping and dumping and pumping and dumbing, and all
I have are photos of me and our kitchen floor pumping.
I'm asked naked, and then I woke up in the
(46:03):
next morning and there's just the bottles of the milk.
And Adam wrote drunk all over the bottles, and it
was like, do not give these to our son? This
is like such a mess. But I think that there is.
I think you and I are in this really sort
of why I want to talk to you, even though
I know motherhood is very new to you and it's
new to me as well, and we're both struggling through
this identity shift crisis versus. I just think some of
(46:25):
the moms who are my dear friends, who have older kids,
you know, in their teens, I think they've sort of
just accepted that they are a mom, which is awesome,
and you and I will hopefully get there. But I
think you and I think we're just still like reaching,
Like I still like I was that person. I just
went to New York for the you know, for two
days by myself. I was out till three o'clock in
the morning both nights, Like, who the hell do I
(46:46):
think I am? Right? I still have to come back
here and take care of my kid. It was like
I had the flu. I was like taking down, like
it was horrible because I just really went hard. Yeah,
well that was and my experience. I think over think
it was Christmas or something. Yeah, I put her down
and I had, God, I had like two and a
half glasses of wine, which for me out course, like
(47:07):
at that point, you know, she's two months old. I
was so tired and so out of it, and I
hadn't been sleeping, and I was like, oh whatever, this
was amazing and I felt good and I was laughing,
and then of course she woke up an hour later
and was crying and then needed me, and I was like, oh,
this is horrible. God, I can't do this to myself
and I can't do this to her. And I was
(47:28):
like not it wasn't drunk like holding her, but I
was exhausted, and it's it is fascinating that you you
just feel totally different. There's a totally different set of circumstances.
And I don't know what it is. Or friends who
like a mom and dad, like they make rules like
if one person like gets drink or smoke sweet or
(47:49):
whatever it is, the other person doesn't because they're like afraid,
God forbid, like they needed to drive to the hospital.
I'm like, okay, this is like too much. We have
uber right, Like I can't like I'm not going to
spend the rest to my life like Adam does something
and I'm not or I am that's insane. No, but
I do know people they might go real hard. Maybe
the thing is they just go real hard. Just please
(48:11):
tell me on this podcast that are days of burning
man or like going for a weekend in Vegas. They're
not over right, No, No, I don't think so. I'm
just not there yet. No, we're not there yet, but
soon we're just itching the work life balance. I feel
a little bit further ahead than you. You will get it,
(48:31):
and I hopefully will only get better at it. And
you are a wonderful reminder of me to ask for
help because I have not been doing a great job
at that. Do you have any words of advice for
new moms who are trying to figure out who the
f they are? Good luck? Yeah, good lue. But also,
like like I would said, be go easy on yourself,
you know, and like remember whether you're four months in,
(48:53):
whether you're you know, a year in or more like,
just go easier on yourself and know that it's going
to be constantly changing. And know your limits because I'm
constantly learning my limits. I you know, I push it.
I burn the candle at both ends. Just the other night,
I'm like literally editing a short film right now that
(49:14):
I shot and wrote when she was nine months, when
I was nine months pregnant, and now I'm like finally
getting around to editing it. And I put her down
and it was eleven and I asked Patrick for help
and he was giving me notes. In the middle of
the note session, I just started crying and I was like,
I can't hear this right now. I'm so tired. Why
did I And He's like, well, why did you ask me?
(49:34):
I'm just trying to, you asked me. And I'm like,
no, no no, no, I'm so grateful that you would be
willing to do this with me and try, but like,
I need sleep right now. And it was heartbreaking for
me to feel that because in the past, you would
have worked forever again until three in the morning. Who cares, like,
because I would have woken up when I woken up,
like when I woken up, and I would have been fine.
(49:56):
But now I'm I have to be there on call
for some body whenever she needs me. And that is
you know, as Shaunda said, like, it's a job you
can't quit. It's a job you can't defer pass on
to somebody else. You can ask for help, but ultimately,
you know, I'm her, you know number one, So just
go easy. We don't want you to get too deplenished.
(50:18):
Don't get to plenish. Don't plenish yourself for the sake
of someone else. Guys, don't get too deplenished, because we
want you to be good at the best moms you
can be, but also not be too deplenished. It's it's
it's that classic and I know that, like it's it's
such a thing that moms say to themselves all the time,
but it really does help. It's that the air mask
(50:40):
in the airplane, right, you have to you have to
strap on your own air mask in order to help
somebody else. I've never thought about that really, I mean
now that you say, and I feel like that's good.
You have to, And that's like the first thing of motherhood.
It's like we gotta strap on our own mother. You
have to. It's like she's she's been screaming at me,
you know, like baby girl, I'm gonna piss myself if
(51:02):
I don't come with me to the bathroom. I know
you're hungry, but I promise as soon as this happens,
me and then I will feel and then I will
feed you. I'm I'm never not going to feed you.
You're gonna get fed, whether it's like in a thirty
seconds or now, um brilliant. Yeah, So that's all I
can try in You are a beautiful mom. Thank you.
This was so excellent. Like you are, You're like you're
(51:26):
killing well. I really you know that you've been such
an inspiration for me, whether it's you know, you're an
inspiration to me. I gotta remember the air mask. I
gotta remember to ask for help. I mean, this is
like we're going to be teaching each other for a
long time. I'm really such about it. Thank you guys
(51:47):
so much for listening to Katie's Crib, and be sure
to check out Shonda land dot com, where you can
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Hi, everybody, and welcome back to Katie's Crib. In this episode,
we are talking about a very familiar feeling for a
lot of parents, and that feeling is called burnout. Okay,
it's not just feeling stressed out. It is a long
lasting feeling of stress, exhaustion. It leads to emotional detachment,
feeling generally ineffective. It is a very real thing, you guys,
(00:25):
and it also sometimes it can be difficult to admit
that you're going through it because so many of us,
me especially, want to act like we've got this whole
mother thing, motherhood thing very you know, covered, and we're
all just showing what we think our representatives should be.
It's an easy trap to fall into, and especially in
this day and age, when we feel like we have
to be going seven. Our phones are always on, we're
(00:47):
always reachable. We're being pulled in so many different directions
work life, home life, responsibilities as a mom, a wife,
a friend. The lift goes the list. Excuse me, guys,
that's the burnout. Talking goes on and on on um
and I think, on top of it all, I think
how much we're working these days makes it really hard
to really sit down and think about who the hell
(01:10):
we really are. And I think motherhood is the biggest
sort of identity shift and it has been so far
in my life. And I was really interested to bring
on my dear dear friend Troy and Belisario, who is
a close friend for a very long time, a beautiful
new mother, an exceptional human being, to talk about this.
(01:31):
And we're here to talk about your experiences of being
a new mom and going through how we talk about
and deal with this new mom life. So let's get started. Hi,
Troy and Hi? I was like, when do I talk? Also,
you have to understand it's this new mom thing is
so recent for me that I was listening to you
(01:52):
speaking in the opening and totally imagining myself as I
have with every other episode of this podcast, Pregnant behind
the Wheel of my are just listening and like just
being like, Katie, give me everything, tell me everything I know.
I honestly was like, waiting, when is they too? Like? Guys,
Try and I are very good friends, and I literally
been sitting here being like, when is it too soon
(02:14):
to ask? Try? And Belt sorry to be a guest
on my podcast, And I think I've made it, like Pat,
like I think we're past the fourth trimester. We are, absolutely,
We're just hilarious because I just finished as I passed
the fourth trimester. I finished that like Happiest Baby on
the block book Perfect. We had Dr Carpon as a guest,
which I obviously loved, and I read the book like voraciously.
(02:36):
I devoured it and I was like, oh, that's gonna
be so helpful. And the last line is like and
so when you're out of the fourth trimester, it will
be a whole new set of things. And I was like,
I'm literally out of the fourth trimester tomorrow, glad I
put stop reading this book, and this ship doesn't end.
Sometimes it occurs to me that like, my kid's going
to be a teenager, Like, oh my god, like that
when he at one, my kids started hitting people all
(02:59):
the time, included, And I texted the doctor like so
freaked down. She was like, well, Lucy, hasn't spit in
your face and said, fuck you mom yet? And I
was like, oh my god, I'm going to happen. That's
like a thing. Yeah, like we're going to be raising
human beings. Um so, speaking about you being a relatively
new mom, yes, how in the hell are you holding up. Um,
(03:19):
you know, it's very funny. Last night I went out,
I of course, mom Brane, like I thought I had dinner.
It's a real thing. I thought I had a dinner.
So I asked our wonderful nanny to come and watch her.
And then of course the dinner was like next week.
And so I was asking Patrick, my husband, is so
(03:40):
something you would have never done before? Having a right,
That's what mom Brane is You guys like it is
literally making mistakes you would never like, showing up on
the wrong place and the wrong day. It's crazy. I mean,
I I fully the the entire drive over here. I
had to check my calendar like three times. I was like,
it is at Katie's house and it is at one thirty.
I know this, but I have to keep on checking. Um.
(04:02):
So he was like, it's okay, let's go take a
night out. Let's go see a movie. And it was amazing.
We went out, we saw a movie that we were
standing outside and he we've been talking a lot about
if there's anything he can do to help me with
my exhaustion or anything like that, and I was I
just kind of said, I was like, you know, when
you're a little kid and you're so tired you just
(04:23):
want to cry. I was like, so if you see
me crying, it's just that kind of like like, I'm
just a little kid right now. I'm just so tired
to cry, you know. But it's it's it's awesome and
it's totally to be expected. You're saying this ship and
I'm literally looking at you being like, I am I
gonna have a second kid? Why? Because you're just gonna
(04:46):
think of that? Yeah. Yeah. I'm literally sitting here being like, Wow,
I don't life is funny either burnout brain or mom brain,
which sounds like we're gonna get into this. We have
a combo plant going on, We're to do um. I
am sitting here being like, am I ever going to
have a second child? That is so scary to even ask,
(05:07):
And I'm asking all of my listeners on Katie's Crib
when you think if you think one, will it happen?
But it is. It is interesting too because I actually
we we know, we now know a lot of people
who have chosen to because they are in the mode
of the baby. You know, they're like they're choosing to
have bang it out, to bang it out exactly like
and and that to me, I think, particularly because Patrick
and I we have so many years in between us
(05:28):
and our siblings both above and below. I love hearing this.
Yeah oh yeah, so like it's very funny. We're like
almost identical. So Patrick, his eldest sister is six years
above him, as younger sisters six years and they're really tight.
They're all super tight. And then my my older brother
is six years above me. My younger brother is six
years below me. So we have the exact same mirroring
(05:49):
in our family. And we really loved being the middle child,
having an older sibling that we really looked up to,
and also having a younger sibling that was like our baby.
Oh my god, this is so relieving. So you don't
feel inherently because of how you were raised and how
you feel good with your yeah, the family structure, you
don't feel rushed. No, no, no, no, I don't feel rushed.
(06:10):
And also, like I think it's awesome when siblings are
super close together. I've just never had that, you know.
It's like my my siblings also like we were never
in the same class or like even in school together.
You know, it's like we were all in elementary school,
middle school, or high school. Like, so we moved through.
From an outsider's eye, it sounds like you're doing good
because you made it to a movie last night, which
(06:31):
is fucking epic, Like that's really impressive. Well, that you
look great, But it's really about people in my life, Patrick,
my therapist, my friends, my parents who have all been
encouraging me either like asked for help if you need
a night awesome. We haven't talked about that in a long,
hot minute on this show. That is really the thing.
(06:53):
And this is what we talk about as far as
like we'll get into this a minute, but this whole millennials.
You and I are both millennials. I'm on the I
think I'm the first year of it. I was born
an eighty two and you're more than I don't know
where you are, but you're in the millennial thing. But
there's this whole thing about millennials burning out and always
working hard, busting ass. It's never enough, you know, go
(07:17):
go go, go, go, go go. We came of age
at the cell phone, so you're reachable all the time.
You should be able to work and it it makes
motherhood hard because it feels like we should just always
be kicking ass and taking names, and really it takes
a lot of fucking help and it's so hard. Well
it's wild because and I find this, particularly with the phones,
(07:37):
that I really I really don't want her to have
screen time me either. And I mean, look, she's four
months old right now, so good time, you're doing great.
I'm doing great so far, although it is really tough
when I want to take a bunch of photos of
her and I'm just sorry ignoring, but but so i
have my phone somewhere near me, and I'm breastfeeding like
(08:00):
a lot during the day, and I noticed that like
when I'm breastfeeding, I just want to be with her
and I want to be present. I want to be
looking at her, and I can feel whether it's on
my amphone, I just feel buzzing, buzzing, buzzing, And people
who don't have babies or don't know obviously, they don't
know that I'm with her, like they don't get why
it's not and they're not responding right away. Yeah, and
(08:23):
it's and and also it's so crazy because right now
she's at a time where she can't sit up on
her own. She I can lay her down, but after
you know, a minute or two of looking at a thing,
she wants to be onto something else. So it's it's
totally constant. And really the only breaks that I get
her when I put her down to sleep, um, you know,
in her naps, and who knows if that will be
(08:44):
five minutes or an hour um, And so they asking
for help whether it's just like you know, Patrick, can
you hold her for an hour while I go on
a ugon so like I can get out and like
sweat today that it really I find that when I
come back her and I pick her up, it's like
a battery that's been recharged. Suddenly, I'm like not to planet,
(09:05):
I'm not you know that is it to replenished completed,
you guys, this is I'm not replenished or I am
Can we because I started as a hashtag, because we're
making up work? Can you please just yeah, you're not. Also,
I'm applauding you for movies, and I'm applauding you for
(09:25):
not looking your phone breastfeeding because my mom used to
be like, you're not putting the phone near his head
while your breastfeeding the whole time, six times a day,
Like I feel like the radio waves. I'm like, oh mom,
I'm looking at my fucking cell phone the entire time
I was breastfeeding. It's horrible. It's not horrible, but I
did have I think where it's like come on, like, well,
it's my cellphone is always near me, so like what
about me? And then I was like, well, the brain plate,
(09:47):
it's not you're doing, it's she still has space in there.
So I do remember being so relieved though, Like my supply,
my milk supply went down and someone had said, well
are you getting Are you looking at your phone while
you're pumping at work? Because the stress will make it
so that you make less milk, And that was one
(10:07):
as soon as I I think it was Kristen Bell
actually with him, she would say, like, you have to
go and like literally meditate while you pump. It's the
only way that milk is going to come out like
it feels stressed fucking crazy. Okay, guys, I want to
take a little break here to discuss the app that
I've been telling you guys about once again. You guys.
It is called drop spelled d r o P. If
(10:29):
you haven't downloaded yet, oh my gosh, please do it.
Is a must. It is making my life so much easier.
All you need to do you download the free app,
Yes I did say free. You link your Debitter credit
card to the app, and then you're done. You're easily
going to start gaining points every time you shop at
all your favorite stores. The stores can include you know, Target, Starbucks,
so for a whole foods and like so many others.
(10:51):
And after just a few trips to the store, then
you're able to redeem your points for gift cards at
all of these places. It's like cyclically amazing. So we're
member to use my code Katie's Crib. Then you get
a five dollar Starbucks gift card immediately just for signing
up and linking your card again. The code is Katie's Crib. Okay,
let's get back to Katie's Crib. I don't know if
(11:13):
you guys listening have read this article. If you haven't,
I really encourage you too, because I feel like a
lot of the listeners are all millennials. But there was
this popular BuzzFeed article by Anne Helen Peterson in January
called how Millennials became the Burnout Generation, which just is
angering that title it is. I sent it to you
and what did you think. Immediately Immediately, I was like,
(11:34):
there's no way I'm touching this. This isn't true. And
then I read it and I was like, oh, this
is so accurate, you guys. The article talks about this
widespread feeling of burnout among millennials, the generation of adults
board between eighty one and ninety six. It breaks down
some of the factors contributing to this, such as, you guys,
the unstable economy and job market, the intensive parenting that
(11:54):
trained us to be in the constant state of working,
a generation of Type A students who have become now
Tie A parents. Um, first and foremost, had you feel
this burnout? Oh God? Also just that last sentence of
like the type A people that are going to become
the Type A parents. Oh wow. So I mean it's real,
(12:15):
it's so really, it's really real. And I couldn't help it. Literally,
the minute she came out of me, the first thing
I saw were her fingers, and I was like, she's
gonna be a pianist. And it was like and I
saw her legs, and she's going to be a runner
and a dancer, and I was like stopping, stop putting out,
but it's hard because we do that is the way
that we are trained to work and to commit ourselves.
(12:38):
You know, it's there's this whole long thing I've been
reading in this book. Well we're going to talk to
the author in a few episodes from now, but it's
about how you know, our parents were baby baby boomer generations.
So they were like, go out, we'll see you at
dinner and call offus that call us if anyone's bleeding.
We don't give a fuck, Like best of luck to you.
Go get on your bike and ride two miles to school,
(12:59):
like it doesn't matter. Our parents really went against that,
and when they raised us, it was like over parenting.
You're not going to get for a lot of us.
You know, it was very the term helicopter parenting came along,
and now here we are the product of that. You know,
you can have it all. You're going to be the
best mom in the world, and you're going to be
super successful in your career, and you're never going to
(13:20):
show anyone that you're fucking losing your mind while you're
doing it, and you're gonna be reachable by your phone, um,
and you're going to rule your child to be at
Stanford by the age of five or whatever is totally
But the problem is is that kids need to be bored.
They need to practice riding their bike at whatever age
(13:41):
you feel like is safe for them to get to
school at night at dusk, because at some point they
need to be adults. And it's like, oh my god.
Um anyway, we're very new moms, so we don't have
to deal with that yet, thank god. UM So, how
do you feel like we're talking? We've been going back
and forth between mom brain and burnout, which you and
I have both of. What fucking days it am? I
(14:09):
at the right time, in the right place. I'm deplenished
all see you guys listening. Some of the signs of burnout.
In case you're sitting here listening thinking it's not you,
here are the chronic signs of burnout. Chronic fatigue, insomnia, forgetfulness,
impaired concentration and attention. Physical symptoms include chest pain, dizziness, headache.
So I got a lot of those. Increased illnesses and functions,
(14:30):
cold flues. How many Z packs have you guys taken
this year? Guys? Loss of appetite, anxiety, depression, anger, loss
of enjoyment, not wanting to go to work or spend
time with family, friends, pessimism, isolation, detachment, feelings of apathy
and hopelessness, increased irritability, lack of productivity, poor performance great
literally check those like sorry, it's like I don't think
(14:52):
I can handle anymore. Um. It's it's funny because that, yeah,
the way that our parents raised us, this feeling that
you always have to be honor always bettering yourself. I
mean that I struggle with a lot, and recently, the
most helpful thing I say it's helpful because I'm I'm
hoping to God that it will be helpful is um.
(15:13):
But it's certainly been beneficial to me so far is meditation.
It's I was on a great streak as a nears
resolution that I have dropped it at the end of
But you know what, actually, I because I just started
back up when I was my last couple of months
of pregnancy. I was doing like vedic meditation twenty minutes meditation.
(15:35):
It's where you're given a mantra. Okay, I always think
about like the in any hall where Jeff Goldbloom's like
I forgot my mantra. That was always me. I was
always like, oh my god, I'm not at the call
ask okay, but uh so that was amazing when I
(15:57):
didn't have a child. And now, like I was saying,
when she goes down for a nap, and it could
be do you meditate with her? So I am, Well,
what I'm realizing is that if I put my phone down, uh,
and I don't do that. Breastfeeding is almost a type
of meditation because I don't know what it's going to
be done. I don't know when she's done. I literally
(16:17):
just have to sit there and engage with her or
not and just be quiet and breathe until she's done.
Because she gets I've noticed that she gets very distracted,
whether it's a light or a sound or a barking dog,
and then she'll stop, but then she'll want to go back.
So if I have any of that, like the next
thing she gets up, she gets frustrated. So breastfeeding has
been like a very centering, meditative state for you totally.
(16:41):
It was for me too. Well. No, I was on
my phone for a lot of it, but when I
was pumping, I was off my phone for a lot
of it. And now it's over, and God, I was
supposed to meditate. In two thousand nineteen, I did like
a good fifteen days in a row. I forgot well
I can actually, I mean I actually have been doing
because I also love the Sam Harris podcast, and he
came out with an app called the Waking Up Podcast,
(17:04):
the Waking Up app which is really linked to because
I'm on Headspace. People love Headspace, people loves try Insight,
but the Sam Harris one is really good because it
also has these things that you can listen to to
talk about why it's beneficial. I mean they have he is.
It's just Sam Harris talking about like free will versus premeditation.
(17:27):
Like it's really interesting. But so you find a meditation
and like running you said, are things which might healthy meditation,
Like I have to I have to exercise, whether that's
just even putting her in a carrier and going on
a hike. I know you're very good at that on
your Instagram, You're good. It's like the only thing I
know how to post. I'm just like here, I am
on the same she's on like a mountaintop with your
(17:49):
baby and a stroller or like in a carrier, just
like getting after it because I just I get punchy.
If I'm in the house, I get super punchy. And
then you know, Patrick comes home the end of like
a workday or something like that, and I'm just like,
we're gonna talk to anybody but the dog and somebody
who can't tap back, like and I kind of lose
my and He's like, okay, I'll be I'll be with
(18:11):
our daughter. Um. Yeah, but that's really helpful. I find
I love that we need to do that. And it's
like when when during all of the burnout job situations
that we're doing like, I just I think that that's
why for me, it's about finding if you can't find obviously,
twenty minutes a day, twice a day, like I couldn't
(18:31):
keep it up with a new baby. But I found
a different way to meditate, which was I you know,
I knew she was going to go to sleep if
I put her on a carrier and I went out
and I would walk without headphones and I would just
like look a look at look at a freaking flower.
Yeah exactly, Or when I'm breastfeeding, just be like, I'm
going to sit here and be with her. Because you
notice it's the thought patterns that rise up that you're like, oh,
(18:53):
this is the cycle of ship that's just always spinning
in the back of my head. And if I never
actually just take time to listen to it, then you
find it affects you in weird ways. So that's this
is very helpful reminder to me. Something we don't often
talk about is this thing called invisible labor and emotional
labor of being a mom. So like and this was
(19:15):
brought up in the article too, and you, guys, you
should read this article. It's really fascinating for your millennials
out there. I think I'm the oldest millennial on the block.
What was the year again, two guys, I'm a group.
Something we don't talk about is this, like I said,
this invisible labor and emotional labor of being a mom.
(19:35):
So the routine tasks involved with household, childcare, mental and
emotional exhaustion, which I think is also adding to the
burnout and is mom brain. But like I was reading that,
it's not like you get to do less work because
of your job. After your day job, you know what
(19:56):
I mean. It's like you're basically working two jobs right now.
You're an actor, your producer or director. You do all
of those things. They take up a lot of hours
your day. You're also a mom. You're also running a household.
As helpful and amazing as our husbands are, they truly are.
But like the person who knows that at eleven am
today was my son's sixteen month appointment, and the person
(20:17):
who packed his snack bag, and the person that knew
that he had to come home and have lunch after
he had his shots, and where the motion is in
case he has an allergic reaction or he has a
bad reaction shots. That's me. That's not my husband, even
though my husband's super fucking involved. So I just added
all of this ship on top of me also being
an actor, hosting this podcast, hosting other things, running a
(20:39):
theater company. How in the funk are we supposed to
do this? Like, how are you dealing with it? Because
you're very new. I'm super new, and I'm still in
the dealing with it, which I guess we're always in. Uh.
It just told me that there was motion detective, and
all you want to do is look at your and
I want to look at my and is she in
(20:59):
or she um? So the way that I'm dealing with
it is like I'm realizing that I'm we as human
beings were limited. You know exactly what you said. We
feel like we just tack on being a mom to
all of these things, or tack on all of these
things to being a mom. And I want to be
(21:19):
there for her all the time, but that's not possible
because I end up like it's kind of what the
phrase that I use is like I become an empty
well because that I'm somebody, Like I'm somebody who needs
to work. I love working. I love being creative, so
are you. And you want her to see that, and
I want her to see that. And I find that
(21:40):
if I don't fill up my creativity well by you know,
even if it's meditation or exercise or when you know,
I go get coffee with my writing partners so we
can talk about the new draft of a script. Um.
Then I returned to her and I don't have anything
to give her, literally, like my creativity stores are low,
(22:01):
and all I want to do is just like end
up putting like a toy in front of her and
being like, oh, I hope that that, you know makes
you not want to cry for the next thirty minutes,
but it won't like otherwise, I'm if I feel good
and I'm refilled, I want to engage with her. I
want to say, like, oh, what are you looking at?
Are you looking at that light? Now you're looking at
the other light, You're looking at the shiny thing that's new.
Oh my god, You're able to bend over in a
(22:23):
completely different way. I kind of think it's like the
opposite of Like I always ask people who have two
or three kids now, I'm like, how could you love
another baby as much as you love your first or whatever?
And people always say it's incredible, But like your heart is,
like your heart just get bigger, right, to just include
more people. And as much as I would like to
(22:43):
say that, I have been able to get bigger at
what life has thrown at me, which is now motherhood
on top of all the things I was also doing
for my career, for my husband, for my family. You know,
I don't think it's possible, Like I just feel like,
I just feel like it's never been more important to
like take breaks, read a book, um, unplug, go, turn
(23:08):
off your phone, go for a walk, meditate, all of
the whatever thing that is for you to do. Like
when I go see a play and I get a
nanny and I or a babysitter, or if I can't,
like if Adam and I we have like you know what,
we're at our nanny threshold this week. We can't do
another friendlier Saturday night out. It's too expensive. This is ridiculous. Um,
(23:28):
but we really need to connect and we want to
go see theater because that's something for us that really
fills us up with joy. It's like we call in
those favors, like I call in you know, friends who
will come. My brother will come and put just watch it.
He's already asleep. You just watch TV. It's like he
doesn't let me go. Yeah, you know, but I've never
felt more that breaks for me are the most important
(23:52):
thing to be a better mom to my kid. Yeah,
because you know you can't. I want to figure out
a good way to a good way to say this,
but it was something that I was talking about with
my therapist the other day that you know, in order
to love our children, we cannot They are the center
of everything for us, but they can't also be the
(24:15):
only thing. It's too much pressure. It's too much pressure
for them. Well now when we're supposed to be raising
them to leave. Yes, you know what I mean, Like
if they're doing a like a job of making I'm hoping,
Like when I describe the person I would like to
help support, independent is a word I use. So they
can't be the only thing in my life, because then
(24:36):
my life is going to be over when they don't
have their own talking well. And also they will feel
that guilt of leaving you. They'll be like, oh my god,
my mom is entirely dependent on me for meaning and
purpose in her life, and that's crushing, crushing. I have
family members that are totally kids that have that. UM.
So we're getting into a little bit. Our identity is
moms and for some, like we're talking about, it's it's
(24:59):
an all encompassing part of their lives. UM. And I
think there's this for you and I being millennials and
feeling this need to succeed, Like do you feel that
pressure right now as a new mom feeling this need
to succeed as a mom? Oh my god. So I
used to whenever there was like a new like actress
who was having a moment, I used to have, you know,
(25:21):
like I wouldn't even like name their names, but like
they'd crop up and whatever and I'd immediately start to Google.
I was like, well, when did they start acting? Like
so I know, it's like, oh, they started. There were
four they were like in the wound. Now whenever there's
like somebody knew, I'm like, yo, is she a mom?
Does she have kids? Or has she just selfishly pursued this?
(25:43):
And I'm like, four months into this that is yeah,
but you're not wrong. Yeah, And because now when I'm
trying to figure out, like you do I get to
go to a play in New York? You do? I
get to go you do. But it's wild to consist.
But once amade thing is that you're asking yourself a
little bit right now, right because I mean like, look,
(26:03):
I have a year and a half year old. But
let me tell you, honey, if I'm so experienced, I'm
not that experienced either, because but you have you do it. Yeah,
you do it, and you figure out how to do it,
and you figure out how to make it, how to
make your work work with your situation, and it involves
asking like help you already know that part try and
(26:24):
that's huge. I was like really hard to ask, Like
it's super like I feel like we're both two women
who were like, oh, we got it, we got it,
we can do it in our own like and motherhood
has been the biggest thing for me. Like I was
so weak after I had Albie, and I was in
such a bad way mentally, and I just I was,
I was like I I literally I don't think I've
(26:44):
ever said I can't do this to people, And motherhood
was the thing for me. I was like, I can't
do this, Like this is so fucking hard and and
and it's not like it's act like I've done harder things,
um meaning like like I've done you know, I mean
I haven't run a marathon so and that would not
be it, but like I've struggled and I haven't been
(27:05):
able to pay my rents and I had no money
and I was broken, things like that. But motherhood, for
some reason, the mental identity shift was really fucking hard
for me. Well maybe it's not that you can't do this,
but maybe it's that you can't do this the way
that you are accustomed to doing it. And I find
that for me, that to planet for me. That's that's
(27:28):
what I'm starting to learn, is that I used to
my parents used to call it, you know that like
everybody calls it this, but like they used to always
refer to me, is burning the cannel on both ends.
It used to be like try and stop it. Then
my whole life too, because I would go back to
my room, I would study until three in the morning.
I would wake up at six in the morning, and
I would get up and do all these other things
for like student counsel. I'd be in the play, and
(27:50):
i'd be on a soccer team like whatever, and it
just wouldn't end. And then my parents would just go,
you're gonna get You're gonna make yourself be sick in
order to just take a break and being a mom.
I can't do that anymore. I can't literally now that
I'm breastfeeding. I did one of those days where I
was like, oh, I just won't pump, like I'll just
run to this, this, this and this, And I got
home and I was like in tears because my my
(28:13):
boobs were rocks and you just didn't take fifteen minutes.
I had to pump with me in the car, and
I was like, I'll make it, it's fine. Like what
was I rushed? Like, I don't understand what I was
deep in trying to make happen because for some reason,
the even the idea of strapping the hands free bra
on clicking and all the fucking pump parts. You're just like,
I can't fucking do it. I couldn't, But no, you're
gonna have to do it because otherwise you're gonna end
(28:34):
up with rock tits and it's so painful and so terribleful. Um,
what do you think of the idea that motherhood is
a job. Because there's this genius and it almost brought
me to tears passage I'm going to read it listeners,
so close your eyes if you're one of those people
that likes to close their eyes while they listen to
stuff that's better than me. But there's this passage from
(28:55):
Year Yes by Shawna Rhymes that expresses her views on
the subject. Shawna says, being a mother there is not
a job. Stop throwing things at me. I'm sorry, but
it is not. I find it offensive to motherhood to
call being a mother a job. Being a mother isn't
a job. It's who someone is, It's who I am.
You can quit a job. I can't quit being a mother.
I'm a mother forever. Mothers are never off the clock.
(29:16):
Mothers are never on vacation. Being a mother redefines us,
reinvents us, destroys and rebuilds us. Being a mother brings
us face to face with ourselves as children, with our mothers,
as human beings, with our darkest fears of who we
really are. Being a mother requires us to get it
together or risk messing up another person forever. Being a
mother yanks our hearts out of our bodies and attaches
(29:37):
them to our tiny humans and sends them out into
the world forever hostages. It's so true. That is right,
and that is why our identity is shifting. Absolutely absolutely,
it's it's there is always going to be no matter
where I am in the world, no matter how fine
she is or how old she is, there's going to
(29:59):
be a part of my brain that's wondering is she warm?
Is she happy? Is she fed? Is she safe? And
that never goes away exactly like she said, it never.
You can't quit that job. You don't ever stop worrying,
And it does actually reconnect me. Did you think about
this ship when you were like, I'm like, did you know?
Didn't neither? It didn't either. I literally was just talking
to somebody yesterday and I was like, do you think
(30:20):
I didn't think about becoming a mom enough? And she said,
which I'm so grateful for. She said, no, you just
you couldn't have thought of this because you didn't experience it.
You never didn't know if you had, if it had
occurred to you, it wouldn't have made a difference. But now,
as I think I told you last him, like, I
see women crossing the street on their cell phones, drinking
(30:40):
and iced coffee, and I just know. I'm like, I
can smell that you don't have a child at home.
I know, and I don't resent you for it, but
you don't know what you have right now because you
are just in your own world. And that's fine, and
that's wonderful. And that's an experience that I've had. I
had for thirty two years of my life was in
my own world, and now I'm literally like in somebody
(31:01):
else's world, and it's something else is more important than
anything else. But we do need the other things, which
I love that you brought up to fill up our well.
But I really the identity shift really is and it's
so cheesy and lame, and I wish it was more complicated.
Than this, but people are like, your priorities really change,
and it could not like I just have one thing
(31:23):
that comes above it all, Like I just meaning like
I just his health and his well being and his
safety and his happiness are more important than my own.
Like it's so fucking crazy and I can't I don't
know if that's right or wrong, but it's just like
(31:44):
how I feel like it's just like I he's just
my true responsibility. And I've always felt, well, Adams, my responsibility,
my dog is my responsibility, my parents and my responsibility.
I'm a very responsible millennial. But I've never felt that's
so true to be the case until I had a kid,
And like you guys know who were listening, it wasn't
(32:05):
like that for me right away, And I want to
talk about if that was for you, if your identity
shift happened really quickly. Because I did not like being
a mom right away, and I did not like my
I feel bad saying I didn't like my kid right
away because he wasn't you know, he was just like
a pooping, crying bob. But meaning, I just was like,
what the funk is this stranger? And I didn't feel
(32:26):
maybe I was even resentful to the identity shift. I'm
not sure, but I didn't take to it right away
at all. And then all of a sudden, at like
two months, I got struck hard with this bolt of
lightning of love for this kid. And that's when I
started to feel oh no, oh no, oh no, my
(32:46):
my sort of like blase, I could give a shit
about this turned into anxiety of like, oh my god,
now I'm worried, like now I'm worried that my love
is outside of my body and like to worry about
this kid and I love him a lot, like that's
now in my new scary, so scary. Did you feel
(33:07):
connected to her right away? Did you feel motherhood? I mean,
when I first saw you, I was like, I think
I saw you. She was like six weeks older, so
I didn't even know, but I was like, oh my god,
Troy and Bell, SORRYO, you are a mother in the
most beautiful I mean, I don't know if it was,
but it looked fucking easy or maybe I don't know
(33:28):
what that is. I don't know. I think I think
it's interesting. I probably have experienced a latent um, you know,
like I I don't know if it's postpartum depression of
any kind, but I've experienced it in a very delayed sense.
I know someone it was six months. Yeah, oh yeah,
(33:49):
well it was because during my pregnancy I wasn't really
you know, we we were surprised by the fact that
I was pregnant. We were ecstatic, but also nine months
is a long time to thinking about it and just
be like, wow, how is this going to change our
life and what's going to happen? And and then also
(34:09):
there was the like very hilarious, which I know that
we've spoken about. I had always had the expectation for
some reason. Maybe it's because I was surrounded by brothers
growing up that I was going to have a boy.
So when we found out that it was going to
be a girl, I was we haven't talked about this.
I was floored. I was shocked. Were you worried? Of
course I was worried because I was thinking about my
relationship with my mother. I was thinking about, honestly, like
(34:31):
my history with my eating disorder. This horror, this is
all of your ship staring right literally, thank you great,
that's why I mean, that's why she's here. It's so true,
also hilarious for many reasons, but it's so true but
also like hilarious. I don't the one time I did. Ever,
(34:52):
I had a dream once that I had a girl
and I met her in in a club. I saw
this like blonde dancings like beautiful, a year old blonde
and like she and I went out and I was like,
oh my god, that's my daughter. This is before I
was pregnant. And she turns around and she's like, Mom,
what are you doing here? Get away from me? And
I'm like, I just want to hang out with you, honey,
(35:12):
and she was like and I think I think she
called me the C word. I think she was like,
she's like, it's not your time. You're too old to
be here. And I woke up and I turned to Patrick.
I was like, our daughter is so mean, and he
was like, you're not even pregnant. What are you talking about?
The one like, so my imaginings of a girl are
just so you're gonna hate me. And so I don't
(35:33):
even know if mentally I could, you know, I could
have any sort of expectations. I just didn't understand. I
didn't grow up with girls. It was such a foreign,
alien landscape to me. And thankfully I had a really
wonderful group of women around me. Um, and as I've
gotten older, I've become more and more better friends with women,
(35:55):
which is just right. Also, Mom has even made that
probably stronger, so much stronger, and has it really strengthened
your I feel like, does it change your relations with
your mom? Well? Her coming and change my relationship because
a I finally understood so much of my mother's opinion
and I was like, oh, right, you were somebody before me.
(36:18):
She'll probably need to be thirty three before she realizes that,
but yeah, I was somebody before her, and now I'm
just her mom to her for the next three years
or whenever she gets context. Um, But it totally changed it. Also,
it's just nice to be able to see my mother
give love to her in a way that's not burdened
by our thirty threes of experience, three three years of experience,
(36:41):
you know, Like, because to me, it's like my mom
touches me, and it's just it's it's latent. There's so
much in that touch and it's so much history. She
touches her, and I'm just like, you love her, you
just love her. She loves her, She loves her. I
ran into your mom and she was just like. I
was like, Wow, this woman is into being She won't
is that word she she won't use granmar? Yeah, excuse me. Yeah,
(37:03):
my mom was not using grandma either. Yeah. I think
that was like the first thing when we told her
that I was pregnant. She was like, I'm not going
to be grandma. It's like, if that's what you're worried about, Sure,
I see where your priorities are. Sure my mom's the
same boat. My mom was like absolutely not. My mom
is not being called grandma. We're still sorting it out.
And I was like, Mom, you better figure it out.
Like the kid has like a good twenty word vocabulary,
(37:24):
like your need to figure it out. But your question
was did I was? I immediately connected. Yes. So, um
when when the birth happened, Uh, it was very funny
because I what I said about it is that Patrick
(37:47):
looked at me and he was like, honestly, it's it's
as if nobody told you that you had a baby
inside of you. I was I was screaming, I was laughing,
I was crying. I was shocked. And I kept on
training him and saying like, oh my god, Patrick, it's
a baby. And he was like, I know, and I
was like, no, to baby, And I thought, I don't
know what I thought. I thought it was gonna be
like a sketch of a baby, or an I owe
you of a baby, like, but she was there. She
(38:08):
had ten fingers, she had ten toes, she had her ears,
she had her eyes like and so I was, uh, like,
I am trying not to cry right now. Um she
Immediately I just wanted to. I didn't want to be
apart from her. Ever, I couldn't stop staring at her.
I felt immediately loved, responsibility, like adoration for her. She
(38:29):
was just she was awesome, like in the original sense,
like the biblical sense of the words, like this huge, amazing. Yeah.
I just couldn't believe it. And now it was almost
like it was an idea too or something. And then
she came out and it was like it became so real. Yeah,
because it didn't make sense. It was like, Okay, great,
we're gonna have a daughter that's lovely and sweet and
(38:51):
like romantic. What the capital are like, We're having a daughter?
How wonderful? And then suddenly I was like, oh no,
that's her, Like I'm I'm always going to know her face,
you know, hopefully if I'm lucky, for the rest of
my living days. Like, um, and that's wild that The
way that Patri're going to talk about it is, Um,
(39:12):
your whole life, you've known your familial relations, right, you
know what your brother's face looks like because you've seen
it every day growing up. This is a familiar relation
that you didn't know what they looked like until now
in your life. And I was just bowled over by
that that that there could be somebody who was so
a part of us and so apart will be a
part of our lives and we only get to meet
(39:32):
them now. Um, I know, after your whole experience like
you are, now now I'm getting to meet this person
and it's awesome. And so I think that I the
love was overwhelming very early on, and now I think
the the depression or the postpartum experience that I'm having
(39:56):
is balancing, like you're talking about that, Like, oh God,
now that I know that crushing love and adoration for somebody,
how do I balance that? How do I balance that?
When like it's really hard, I mean, like to be honest,
right now, I'm listening to Michael Pollen's how to change
your mind about, you know, doing psychedelic drugs, And I'm
just like I need to be in the jungles and
I want to I can't be here with you breastfeed.
(40:18):
Let's get on a plane right now and go to
I gotta go to brew to the Amazon. I mean seriously,
but your life is inalterably changed. You totally changed, and
that is that is something that I still four months in,
have not wrapped my head around, and I'm constantly being
smacked upside the head by it every day, you know,
(40:40):
like how to juggle it all? How to juggle it? Yeah?
How did it say? Like this is an important life
experience to me, I need to do it. I need
to figure out how to bring her with. It's all
asking for help. Yeah, that's it, I think. I mean
in my one year and three months experience, I'm known
is that it's all help, I think, and hopefully everyone listening,
(41:02):
like your support system of friends, family, aunties. Again, Like
it's like Dr KRP said, this horrible millennial thing of
like you can have it all and you can do
it all is bullshit because this is especially the idea
of motherhood, because this is truly something that five people
would raise one child, and that is just not the
(41:24):
truth anymore. And so when you would get some sort
of opportunity that you loved, some creative fulfillment or something,
or a job that paid your bills or whatever the
hell it is, you could leave the baby with aunt's,
grandma's someone who also unconditionally loved your kids. Now now
I'm just paying for that, and financy is amazing, but
like I have to, like my parents don't live here,
(41:46):
like we're in a totally new But also, like you're saying,
you reach out to your friends, you reach out to
your community, and that also like, let's be honest, I'm
not you know, saying that you don't you want to
take away people's time, but like it's elevating their experience too,
Like I have a lot of friends that you love
hanging out with her, and they would treasure the opportunity
(42:06):
to get to spend some time. And that means so
much to me. To get to you, it's just like
I'm gonna go, you know, have a bath upstairs, like
talking about the Fourth Chemists, can you hold her while
I actually go to the bathroom for the first time today,
I get ready. I just read some instagram like motherhood
is Motherhood's for you if you don't mind changing your
tampon while a three year old toddler stares you in
(42:27):
the face, because like, that's my normal. Because like when
your kids starts walking and doesn't let you go to
the bathroom by yourself and you're trying to change your
tampon and the kids just unrolling the toilet paper roll
while you're changing your tampon, You're just like, this is
just what motherhood is. Um, how have you had any
sort of thing about getting in touch at all with
the mom, with the person you were before you turned
(42:49):
into a mom see your breastfeeding now. So I don't
know if you have you gone out on a rager yet,
because that's you know, yes. So here's the hilarious thing.
As I god, Patrick and I like, I had a
meltdown the other night because I was just like, well,
first of all, that was my biggest meltdown when I
was pregnant, was that, like and not that Look, I'm
(43:12):
not advocating for doing illicit drugs, but like I was
pregnant suddenly and I was like, I've never had a
hunter ass Thompson experience in Vegan I never had I have.
I never got like it too late for us. I
don't think that we can do it. We can do it.
But I was like, you know, every year of my life,
all of my friends and usually my husband have gone
to Burning Man, and I could never go because I
(43:33):
was on the show. And then this was actually supposed
to be my year, past year to go to Burning Yeah,
and like all my friends were gearing up and they're like,
it's gonna be amazing, and I was pregnant. You're not going,
you can come, And I was like, dude, I am
eight and a half months pregnant. It is boiling hot
in the desert. Y'all gonna be doing your thing and
I'm just gonna be sitting here having people like on
(43:53):
mushrooms touch my belly and be like your fertility goddess.
Like I'm not down for that. So God bless it.
Maybe in the future, um, but but I did have
this like I can't do this. I have to be
responsible for somebody else because A the using my body
to grow and and now I'm using my body to
feed her, and so I do have this like and
(44:16):
now that I'm doing I put her down at seven,
and I do a dream feed at eleven. Even if
I drink a glass of wine, you know, like, or
even if I, you know, like, put her down, drink
a glass of wine, wait a few hours for it
to pass out of my system or pump whatever. It's like,
I'm still very limited in my experience of who I
used to be when I could go out. And Patrick
(44:37):
always kind of reminds me, he's like that you never
really went out and got wasted. I'm like put into
I want to. And it's now the point that you
can know. That's the very we're not used to being
told no, this is bullshit. Yeah, that's the wild thing.
Well here's what you have to look forward to when
you go no, it's great. No one goes harder than
a group of moms who have a nanny's or mother
(44:59):
in law's, moms or husband's or significant others watching their
baby for the night. I went out with a mom
crew last Monday night and I threw up all night long,
and I haven't done that in a hundred years. I
was so fucking trashed. Because the point is is like,
you're still like I can go so hard, Like I
used to, except you can't because you're exhausted and you
have like five tequila drinks and you end up throwing up.
(45:22):
But anyway, Um. The other thing I oh, I was
thinking about was one time I did get really really
really really they say the new rule is, and don't
quote me on this, I'm not a doctor. Um, if
you can drive, you can nurse. So like like, so,
you don't really want to be buzzed, but if you've
had two glass of wine and you've had a whole
bowl of pasta, most likely you would be fine to
(45:43):
drive a car in two hours and you can nurse. Whatever. Um.
One time I was so I couldn't take it anymore.
Like I had given this child my body for a
year and then I've been nursing for a year and
it was like enough already. So I got completely wasted
while nursing, and I pumped. I was like, I was
just pumping and dumping and pumping and dumbing, and all
I have are photos of me and our kitchen floor pumping.
I'm asked naked, and then I woke up in the
(46:03):
next morning and there's just the bottles of the milk.
And Adam wrote drunk all over the bottles, and it
was like, do not give these to our son? This
is like such a mess. But I think that there is.
I think you and I are in this really sort
of why I want to talk to you, even though
I know motherhood is very new to you and it's
new to me as well, and we're both struggling through
this identity shift crisis versus. I just think some of
(46:25):
the moms who are my dear friends, who have older kids,
you know, in their teens, I think they've sort of
just accepted that they are a mom, which is awesome,
and you and I will hopefully get there. But I
think you and I think we're just still like reaching,
Like I still like I was that person. I just
went to New York for the you know, for two
days by myself. I was out till three o'clock in
the morning both nights, Like, who the hell do I
(46:46):
think I am? Right? I still have to come back
here and take care of my kid. It was like
I had the flu. I was like taking down, like
it was horrible because I just really went hard. Yeah,
well that was and my experience. I think over think
it was Christmas or something. Yeah, I put her down
and I had, God, I had like two and a
half glasses of wine, which for me out course, like
(47:07):
at that point, you know, she's two months old. I
was so tired and so out of it, and I
hadn't been sleeping, and I was like, oh whatever, this
was amazing and I felt good and I was laughing,
and then of course she woke up an hour later
and was crying and then needed me, and I was like, oh,
this is horrible. God, I can't do this to myself
and I can't do this to her. And I was
(47:28):
like not it wasn't drunk like holding her, but I
was exhausted, and it's it is fascinating that you you
just feel totally different. There's a totally different set of circumstances.
And I don't know what it is. Or friends who
like a mom and dad, like they make rules like
if one person like gets drink or smoke sweet or
(47:49):
whatever it is, the other person doesn't because they're like afraid,
God forbid, like they needed to drive to the hospital.
I'm like, okay, this is like too much. We have
uber right, Like I can't like I'm not going to
spend the rest to my life like Adam does something
and I'm not or I am that's insane. No, but
I do know people they might go real hard. Maybe
the thing is they just go real hard. Just please
(48:11):
tell me on this podcast that are days of burning
man or like going for a weekend in Vegas. They're
not over right, No, No, I don't think so. I'm
just not there yet. No, we're not there yet, but
soon we're just itching the work life balance. I feel
a little bit further ahead than you. You will get it,
(48:31):
and I hopefully will only get better at it. And
you are a wonderful reminder of me to ask for
help because I have not been doing a great job
at that. Do you have any words of advice for
new moms who are trying to figure out who the
f they are? Good luck? Yeah, good lue. But also,
like like I would said, be go easy on yourself,
you know, and like remember whether you're four months in,
(48:53):
whether you're you know, a year in or more like,
just go easier on yourself and know that it's going
to be constantly changing. And know your limits because I'm
constantly learning my limits. I you know, I push it.
I burn the candle at both ends. Just the other night,
I'm like literally editing a short film right now that
(49:14):
I shot and wrote when she was nine months, when
I was nine months pregnant, and now I'm like finally
getting around to editing it. And I put her down
and it was eleven and I asked Patrick for help
and he was giving me notes. In the middle of
the note session, I just started crying and I was like,
I can't hear this right now. I'm so tired. Why
did I And He's like, well, why did you ask me?
(49:34):
I'm just trying to, you asked me. And I'm like,
no, no no, no, I'm so grateful that you would be
willing to do this with me and try, but like,
I need sleep right now. And it was heartbreaking for
me to feel that because in the past, you would
have worked forever again until three in the morning. Who cares, like,
because I would have woken up when I woken up,
like when I woken up, and I would have been fine.
(49:56):
But now I'm I have to be there on call
for some body whenever she needs me. And that is
you know, as Shaunda said, like, it's a job you
can't quit. It's a job you can't defer pass on
to somebody else. You can ask for help, but ultimately,
you know, I'm her, you know number one, So just
go easy. We don't want you to get too deplenished.
(50:18):
Don't get to plenish. Don't plenish yourself for the sake
of someone else. Guys, don't get too deplenished, because we
want you to be good at the best moms you
can be, but also not be too deplenished. It's it's
it's that classic and I know that, like it's it's
such a thing that moms say to themselves all the time,
but it really does help. It's that the air mask
(50:40):
in the airplane, right, you have to you have to
strap on your own air mask in order to help
somebody else. I've never thought about that really, I mean
now that you say, and I feel like that's good.
You have to, And that's like the first thing of motherhood.
It's like we gotta strap on our own mother. You
have to. It's like she's she's been screaming at me,
you know, like baby girl, I'm gonna piss myself if
(51:02):
I don't come with me to the bathroom. I know
you're hungry, but I promise as soon as this happens,
me and then I will feel and then I will
feed you. I'm I'm never not going to feed you.
You're gonna get fed, whether it's like in a thirty
seconds or now, um brilliant. Yeah, So that's all I
can try in You are a beautiful mom. Thank you.
This was so excellent. Like you are, You're like you're
(51:26):
killing well. I really you know that you've been such
an inspiration for me, whether it's you know, you're an
inspiration to me. I gotta remember the air mask. I
gotta remember to ask for help. I mean, this is
like we're going to be teaching each other for a
long time. I'm really such about it. Thank you guys
(51:47):
so much for listening to Katie's Crib, and be sure
to check out Shonda land dot com, where you can
find every episode of Katie's Crib. And we've got crib
notes for each episode where you can find out more
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