January 21, 2019 • 57 mins
Katie talks to Talia Moore, a childbirth educator and DONA Certified Birth Doula — and the founder of the healthy and organic baby & toddler food company Tummy Thyme. They discuss transitioning babies to solid foods, buying pre-packaged baby food or going the DIY route, experimenting with different flavor profiles, and establishing mealtime routines. Plus, they break down their own relationships with food and how the way we talk about it with young children can lead to good and bad habits later in life.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hi everybody, and welcome back to Katie's crib. In this episode,
I'm very excited because we're talking about food, which was
a very crazily and weirdly stressful thing to me. Transitioning
to solid foods for Albie and for me was super stressful.
And I feel like parents and moms, obviously they want
(00:25):
to give their child the best, the tastiest, the most
nutritious meals, and I was so overwhelmed. I didn't know
where to start. Do you go with prepackaged baby food?
Do you go the d I Y route and you
make it yourself. I have this wonderful friend named Talia
Moore who is sitting here with me, and we actually
first met because you taught my baby class. Yes, childbirth education. Yes,
(00:47):
Talia taught me child birth education at Beanie Birth, which
is this awesome. I don't even know how you would explain.
I say it's a BITH center or center of BITH
because selectation consultant, there's midwives, there's mommy and made classes.
And you are also a dueler, right yes? Whoa Okay,
So Talia is very knowledgeable on babies. You're also a
(01:10):
mom yourself. I am how old is your daughter. She's
three And if you notice, guys, Talia has a very
sexy accent. Where are you from, Dahlia, very far down
South Australia. Where in Australia Melbourne? Amazing? And does your
daughter have like the coolest Australian name ever? What is it? No,
(01:31):
it's Miami, It's it's Hebrew and hinder what the Hebrew
is made? The Hindu is my husband? What say the
name again? Miyami Mayani? That is freaking beautiful. Um, you
guys should all know that. On top of Tally Moore
being a very fancy teacher and doula at beany birth,
(01:52):
she also is the owner of Tummy Time, which is
spelled t h y n e. We're going to put
a link to it on cribs notes, where she makes
and crafted baby food delivered to families and guys, let
me tell you, Talia has a stand at the Studio
City farmers Market every Sunday and the line is around
the corner for this baby food that you make. And
(02:12):
I was like, God, I've always wanted to do an
episode about food because it was such a stressful thing
for me. And you are just the first person that
came to my mind to talk to you about this.
So let's get back. Let's get into your personal life.
What was your relationship with food like before you were
when you were a kid, Like, were you raised on
d I y food? Like? Did your mom make food?
(02:34):
My mom actually owned a catering company at some point um,
and she had a focus on Australian bush cuisine, super
random spices and herbs like um quandong lily pilli um,
not like household spices and herbs. So she very quirky
(02:56):
sense of cooking my mom has. So I grew up
eating really um interesting food. But also the area that
we live in Melbourne is very multicultural and so yeah,
I didn't even actually people ask me what did you
grow up eating in Australia. I'm like, foe, you know,
Thai food, Middle Eastern I don't even know exactly. I mean,
(03:19):
other than my mom's the food that my mom was
cooking for her catering company. It was very cultural. Yes,
oh that's so very yeah. So my question to you
is when do you switch a baby to solid foods?
This is very like controversial, right, what is your advice
(03:41):
on that? Well? I mean I think I think what's
most important. There's there's so many myths. I don't even
know where to start. It's a huge question. And like
I said, guys, and this was this is a huge episode.
This was super freaking stressful to me. Like once I
got the breastfeeding down and I was doing that, I
was like a weak ship. Now we're going to solid foods,
(04:03):
Like how do you do that? And choking and like
diarrhea and like what's going to happen? Like I just
got a handle on breastfeeding or formula, whatever you're doing,
So when is the time? So what I would say is,
first of all, it depends where you live in the world.
So for us in the US, you know, it's it's
(04:26):
somewhere between sort of the four to seven month mark
is what pediatricians will say. Um, here's the number one myth.
The introduction of solids is actually a developmental milestone. It's
not a weight milestone. It's developmental. So for each baby
that's going to be slightly different. There's these myths like, oh,
(04:48):
I've got a larger baby, he must be hungry, he
needs more food. But actually larger babies often are a
little bit slower with those cues that say they're ready,
like they find it harder to hold their head up, so,
which is one of the really important cues you know,
to begin to begin food. So, um, it's a developmental milestone.
So things that you're looking out for include a baby
(05:11):
that can hold their head up, a baby that can
sit unassisted, a baby that's reaching for food showing an
interest in food. A baby that's using has the ability
to grasp an object and bring it to their hand,
which is called the palmer grasp, m palmer grasp. So
that's the baby can pick up food. And like the
exactly a big developmental miles that is needed for eating definitely, Um,
(05:36):
the loss of the thrust reflex where they push food
out of their mouth, so they need to be able
to swallow the food. Um. So yeah, so these these
are very important miles. It's crazy about this whole food
thing is like it's a mother sort of instinctual thing
where it's like if you're seeing your baby obviously sitting up,
(05:58):
you're drinking a glass of water, and the babies like
pawing at your glass like crazy and really wants to
try it or you know, something like that, and like
you said, they keep putting toys in their mouth. They
obviously have that palmer grasp situation. And it's also, you know,
we we get so many questions about, oh, you know,
my baby is not sleeping through the night, he must
(06:18):
be hungry. You know. This is around like the four
to six months, or let's say around four months, which
is actually there's often sleep. There's a little regression, but
that's due to a different milestone. But often people will
associate that with my baby needs solids. But actually you
should wait until your baby is showing all of these
(06:40):
cues because it's not to do with sleep. The interruption
of sleep or a baby waking and not being able
to go back to sleep is actually a baby's inability
to soothe themselves. It's not about food about food. Yes see,
I've heard a lot of this from friends around this,
that four month sleep aggression. Whether they're like, well, clear
clearly they're waking up in the night because of not
(07:00):
getting enough calories in the day. So there, let's feed them,
let's feed them, let's feed them. I personally waited till
six months to even try food again because I was
so fucking stressed out that I just kept pushing it off.
Like I was, like, I don't want to, and then
by six months I was it was much more of
an experimentation than it was eating food by any way,
(07:20):
shape form I kept and do you think that that's okay? Yeah?
I mean the the like the initial the initial um
introduction is the focus really should be on exploration and play.
Right Having said that, though, um, what do they say
before one is just for fun, you know, which is
(07:41):
somewhat true. But also from about six months of age,
a baby's iron levels drop, and so you want babies
at that point, even if they're just smearing the food
all over their face and getting the tiniest bit in
their mouth, great opportunity to get some of that iron
in there, you know, by using an iron rich food
like meat or leafy greens or b exactly exactly. So
(08:04):
um no, but yeah, it should be on fun and play.
And I think that, you know from my conversations going
around mommy and Me groups and chatting with parents about
how stressful this period of time can be. When really,
if you're following your baby's natural cues, it's very straightforward
(08:25):
and it should be easy, you know, But if if
you're feeling anxiety or stressed, your baby picks up on that,
and remember these first couple of years, you're really shaping
your child's relationship with food for life and that little
bit of pressure. I'm so stressed out. People keep sucking
(08:45):
telling me that, Like I mean, I literally just have
a peanut butter and jelly bread eating monster like this
kid is like like me. I eat peanut butter and
jelly sandwiches for ten years, every single day. But we'll
get to there because basically, again I use Katie's crib
as my way to figure out how to best parent Alva. Okay,
(09:08):
you guys, So I know we've been talking about transitioning
babies to solid foods, but really quick, I want to
talk to you guys about something is super cool that
has helped me save so much money while I shop
for the prepackaged baby food. I told you guys about
it last week and I'm telling you again you have
got to try it. It is free, yes, I said free.
App called drop very Easy. It's spelled d r o
(09:29):
P and it's where moms like us can shop at
Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, Target, etcetera, etcetera, and you get
points for shopping I love me some points. So all
you have to do it's really easy. You've got to
link your debit or credit card to the app when
you sign up, and then you easily gain the points
wooo every time you shop. So I benefit the most
from all my coffee runs at Starbucks for example, all
(09:51):
my ubers to friends, houses, diapers, formula, I get a target,
and then later I redeem for gift cards at all
my favorite places. So it is seriously, it is my
new favorite app, and I want to share the wealth,
and I'm giving you guys, all my listeners, a five
dollar Starbucks gift card immediately when you sign up. It's
all you gotta do is sign up and you get
(10:12):
a five dollar Starbucks gift card and you link your
card by using the code Katie's Crip spelled k A
T I E S c R I B. Make sure
you check it out. You guys, you will love it.
You're welcome, go get your Starbucks on. Okay, let's get
back to Katie's Crib. What kind of foods do you
recommend people try first? So this is interesting because even
(10:34):
when I started feeding my daughter two and a half
years ago, when she was six months, so much has
changed in the information, even just in these last couple
of years. UM, and that's based on particularly in the US.
UM pediatricians and pediatric nutritionists have said, like, what's going
(10:54):
on here in America? We have such high rate of allergies,
we have basicity, we have of you know, um, all
of this going on, and yet in other parts of
the world exactly like WHOA. So initially, you know, you
were supposed to or a few years ago, you were
not supposed to introduce the allergens until much later. Now
(11:17):
they're saying, actually, that's one of the first things that
you should be doing, is introducing these allergens. Um, you know, repetitively,
you should be introducing them. So things that research has
changed now. The pediatric nutritions that we work with for
tummy time was just saying to me, you know, really
(11:37):
tell your parents variety, variety of variety, you know, keep
trying different things. It doesn't matter what you start with
within reason, you know, um, and start with like Y,
well yeah, but what did you start with? Well I
(11:58):
started with so with with my daughter. I actually initially
the first few weeks was pretty I'm pretty anxious by nature,
so so initially I was doing the and our pediatrician
had said, do the three one ingredient weight three days.
So and I love list. Explain what that is? Because
I did not do this. This did nothing but stress
(12:19):
me out. But so I was told by our pediatrician,
UM to introduce one singular ingredient for three days in
a row and then to introduce a new one for
three days in a row an allergic reaction to it. Correct. However,
I have since learned learned that, UM, a lot of
pediatricians don't recommend doing that anymore, and that that's not
(12:42):
the way. I didn't do that, and actually that's not
the way in which the rest of the world introduce
the solids, you know. So for me, I was just saying,
I love lists, so I like I every three days
I would add a new vegetable or fruit to the list.
So I had this long list of the order of
which I introduced food to Miami. For god knows what
(13:03):
reason I have this list, um. And I remember face
timing my sister in Australia who had a baby a
week after me. And you know, she my nephew same
age as my daughter. UM was she was holding a
lamb shank and he was sucking on it. Meanwhile, I'm
on like the third day of plain zucchini, you know,
(13:24):
and he's like sucking on this delicious you know, lamb
shack so um. And that just got me thinking like, okay,
so that it doesn't have to be this way. And
my family lists like peach, peach, peach, exactly, let's add
in peach, avocado, peach, avocado, peach avocado. Okay, let's add
(13:44):
I had friends doing that, and I was like, this
is so fucking stressful to me, Like I cannot, Like
I would give him avocado for a few meals and
I'm like the same. He seems happy. Okay, We're good.
Moving on then, like I just didn't. I was like,
he'll let me know if something to it. And with
severe allergies, you don't need to wait three days to
(14:05):
know if your child has a severe allergy, it's it's straightaway. Um. So, yes,
there are some pediatricians that are still quite conservative, but
a lot of pediatricians in our saying variety doesn't matter
what order um goes people try. What about the people
who are like, do vegetables first, because as soon as
(14:27):
you do, fruity sugar as your kids going to be
sugar addicted? Is that true? Well no, because a couple
of reasons. First of all, carrots have almost the same
amount of sugar as apple, so okay. But also babies
are naturally sweet lovers, so they're always going to go
(14:47):
towards right. So yes, So I think that that's a
little bit of falsity, falsehood, whatever it is, I'll take it,
because good lord, I'm like, I do have some good
friends who are like, you know, well, I don't think
it's about but you know, they don't take out the
apple sauce or something like that until the kid has
(15:09):
gotten through, you know, started the meal with some vegetables
and maybe like a protein of some sort, and then
have a because as soon as they even see the
apple come out, it's like everything else goes on the floor,
which is like, hey, I get it. I rather the
apple too. Um can you tell us about tummy time? Yes,
(15:31):
Tommy time is delicious. I warn you all that adults
will like it as well, thank you. Um So, So
Tommy Time sort of happened by chance. I was I
was in a mummy and me group, um which around
six months of age, and each week the woman that
was laid in the class would ask us all to
(15:52):
share what we were feeding our kids, because we were
all at that sort of introduction of solid stage and
wake after wake would go around and parents were like,
you know, the moms were like, I don't know, I'm
doing avocado again. There was one mom who was so
anxious about um nitrates and so anxious about um what
(16:14):
to feed her kid that was appropriate that she was
just buying prepackaged jars of like carrot, pre package jars
of like beans and stuff like that. UM. And then
I would share what I was making. And I was
making I was like roasting plums with ginger and like
there was it was at the time it was I
(16:36):
think there were cherries and I was. I was, yeah,
I was roasting chairs. I was. It was just so
yum what I was making. And I think as as
we would go around the circle and I was sharing
these delicious meals, she would have one bite, I would
have one bite, and it was this shared experience. UM.
So one of the moms shout out to Ginger actually
(16:56):
said to me, UM begged me if if I would
double batch what I was making, because she wasn't into
cooking and didn't have time she was working. So I
so I started, after a couple of weeks of sort
of encouragement from the other moms, I started sending out
an email of what I was planning on making for
(17:16):
Miami that week, that I'd gotten the product I had
gotten from the farmer's market, um, and they would send
back their orders. So I would cook during the week.
And my way of cooking enough food for everybody and
having it still you know, um, fresh and good was
to freeze it so that they could come pick up
their little bags of cubes um and take it home.
(17:39):
And my husband, you know, also Australian loves his liquor,
had a lot of whiskey ice cube trays, so I
was so I was freezing in whiskey ice cube trays um,
and then on a Sunday all these families would come
and collect their food for the week. Um. And then
(18:01):
within a few months I was feeding multiple mummy and
me groups and I got too much. We actually my
husband said to me, I'm pulling the park. I'm going
to start dropping the food off because I don't want
all that. It was too many people, people, families coming
and it was lovely. It was very community and beautiful.
But they got a point that it was like we
wanted to go do something and we had people waiting
(18:22):
for people to come and cuck their food. So so
Timmy time really began that way. Um, And really the
whole concept of it is that baby food should be delicious.
You know, babies are exposed. This is so cool. Babies
are exposed to their first tastes whilst in utero. So
(18:47):
what a mum's eating, The spices and herbs that she's
eating are actually flavoring her amniotic fluid. So in India,
these babies are experiencing curry and tumeric and ginger and
asad fotida and like all these some spices. Um, and
then they're born, they go to mom's breast and mom's
breast milk is then flavored with what she's eating. They're getting,
(19:08):
you know, notes of garlic and all of this stuff.
So we go from flavor flavor flavor to you get
carrots steamed for three days carrot. You know it's it's
it's like these babies have taste buds, you know. So Um,
when we when we decided to really make this a business,
we went and tried some of the really highly processed
(19:31):
jars and I couldn't even like, no offense, but I
don't want to eat some of that stuff. It just
wasn't palatable to me. So if I'm not going to
eat it myself, how can I, in good conscious conscience
give it to my child? And I'm not even talking
about the fact that these are highly processed, you know,
and that you're you're you're raising your child or you're
(19:51):
you're teaching your child that highly processed food is the norm,
which you know, it's there for a reason, but it shouldn't.
It's not the gold standard because not only is it
culturally bland, there's no asafatida or ginger in baby food
jars that are sitting on a power to sitting on
a shelter for a few years. Um, there's no texture transition.
(20:16):
So you know, um, this is going to take me
off on a whole other other route. But um, you know,
babies have to transition into different into into chunkier textures
to the smoothest you guys know, they start with the
smoothest baby food that's almost like a liquid still, and
then gradually you get chunkier and chunkier and chunk here
(20:39):
until they're learning how to swallow a truly solid not blended.
That's if you're doing spoon feeding. But if you're doing
baby lead wedding, they yeah, so bait so they know.
I don't mean to say they, but I mean in
baby lead weaning, Um so baby letters, I'm saying food
is the biggest fucking overwhelming thing. This almost killed me.
(21:02):
I read the baby lead waning book. I was scared, petrified,
but it's what I did, Thank God. Well, if you
if you're going to do the baby lead waning route,
you need to educate yourself on the difference between choking
and gagging, because it's actually very normal for babies to gag.
And it's good because then they learned next time, Oh,
I'm going to be more careful. Baby lead weaning is
essentially like instead of going up in baby jar, okay,
(21:24):
so baby jars, the ones that are on shelves are
leveled in numbers one, two, three, four, five, six as
far as their level of chunky is concerned, so that
the baby is slowly learning how to swell. I had
a lot of mom friends have to do that because
they were completely They loved the idea of baby lead waning,
which essentially means you give the baby adult food and
they like kind of non it and teach themselves. I mean,
(21:45):
I gave him a broccoli that's a certain you can
read the book. We'll put a link to it baby leaning,
but they hold a broccoli head and they sort of
learn how to chew it. And And my mom flipped out
that I was doing this, like so upset when I
give them a banana to just eat himself. Like she
was like, he's going to choke, He's going to die.
This is a nightmare. Now. The first couple of times
he coughed something up, I was like shaking, so scared.
(22:10):
But you're right, it was probably only three or four
times he ever did that, and then he learned how
to like never choke. He learned what he could do.
Is that I mean, I mean no I did. I
didn't do baby led weaning the first time. Well I've
only had one time, so I asked me after the second.
But but because I'm anxious, you know, by nature, with
(22:31):
a lot of my friends, and you know, I mean
my sister was doing that, That's why exactly. But so
here's the thing, and it's the same with when I
teach child with education classes and we talk about labor.
It's the same thing with you know, solids, do what
is going to make you feel most at ase, because
(22:53):
that's going to create the most positive outcome. And ultimately,
who cares if you did pure as your cares, if
you did baby lead waning. Your kid's not going to remember,
but your kid will remember the energy that was around
that meal, and they will remember your face. You know,
if you're sitting there looking petrified, your child is taking
that on, you know. But if you're totally at ease,
(23:15):
no matter what method or approach you take, your child
is absorbing that and taking that on. And ultimately, what
what is the end goal here? The end goal here
is we're raising a human being that loves food relationship
and has yeah and has a wonderful relationship with food.
(23:36):
And that begins from the start, you know, And it's
a very important legacy as a parent, you know, to
to get your child off on the right foot. Now,
I've definitely been in this situation which we talked touched on,
like you know, the prepackaged processed foods at the grocery store.
(23:59):
I mean, we have one ent relied on that many
a time. Like, you know, even though he was on
solid foods, there were days where his teeth were all
coming in and he was like literally would bite down
and scream his head off, And so I would grab
one of those packets, you know what I mean, And
he would eat vegetables that way because I definitely was
not someone that was going to grind up a zuoki.
(24:21):
I don't cook. Let's let's just let that be known
Katie's crib listeners. I do not look I do not
know how, um, but I am definitely a lying at
tummy time at Studio City Formers Market. But so, what
are some of the red flags for people to look
out for? Like if if those sort of packets or
jars are the way that you're deciding to go, that's
the least amount of anxiety for you, or you're in
(24:43):
a bind and it's not a staple, but you do
use them once in a while. What what are the
red lakes? What are the red flags? So before I
answer that question, I just want to say, like I
also use them, absolutely no shame in using them. Please. Um.
You know, I have people coming up to the Famber's
ark and they're like, oh, I feel terrible. You know,
all my kid eight this week was processed stuff, and
(25:05):
I'm like, you've fed your child. Good for you. You're
fucking awesome. Like, go to be proud of yourself. You know,
they're there for a reason, and they're awesome in a pinch,
you know. Um, yes, I do think that they're not
the gold standard, but absolutely we all use them in
a pinch and that's what they're They're great. Forum. I
(25:26):
would say it comes down to information and education. In
order for a carrot from the farmer's market to survive
two years on a shelf, something had to happen to
that carrot. Okay. So so even if it says organic
on that pouch or whatever, if that if it's not
(25:49):
in a refrigerator and it's two plus years old, something
happened to that sweet little carrot. Okay. So it's just
understanding that the further or a a food is from
its original form, the more present, the more processed it is,
the more processed, the less amount of nutrients. Okay. So
(26:13):
at this very young age, when babies have such small tummies,
it is really important that they are getting a good
quality or or enough of those key nutrients. So, coming
back to your question red flags what to look out for.
My suggestion is, you know, um, choose choose pouches that
(26:37):
are not just fruit and vegetables. Choose ones that have
an animal protein in it, or a grain or a legume,
something that's a little bit more um wholesome. You know,
there's more nutrients in there for the baby. Um, have
a look at the ingredients lists. This is something that like,
totally honestly, working in food manufacturing, now I am fairly
(27:04):
horror f you are seeing behind the curtain. It is. Well,
it's just amazing how you can hide information, you know,
or or not even just hide. It's kind of in
pure in plain sight, but you don't realize. You know,
some of the pouchers and jars they have, like their
(27:27):
ingredients will say, you know, apple pure a rather than
just apple. So what that tells me is that was
probably purchased from another country or elsewhere in big vats
of premate pure a, and they've just repackaged it and
mixed it into their own container. So now again we're
(27:48):
talking about how far away this apple is from its
original form so far so you know, um, so yeah,
coming back to no shame. I certainly have used them
in a pinch, but um, you know, not the gold standard.
If you do have to use them, try and find
one that has a variety of flavors and has something,
(28:11):
you know, either a protein leg being yeah something. Yeah,
that's really good to know what. The other thing I
just want to throw out is the puffs. We see
a lot of babies eating the puffs. Choose those parts
and they're great, you know, particularly teating babies that want
to like gum something that they're great when you're buying them.
(28:34):
Choose one that is not just a rice or a carbohydrate.
You can get ones that have peanut butter or you know,
like a Bumba. We go through bumbas like it's a problem.
Bumbas are a traitor Joe's. They're incredibly affordable. They're a
peanut butter flavored cheeto, sourly processed. Yes, but if you're
(28:55):
going to do it, at least it's protein and you're
you're that's our plane. Go to every plane we're on, Like,
you know, I bring them if we have like a
restaurant out situation where he's in a high chair and
I know it's going to be a minute until that
food comes. I will break those bombas into like four
pieces to just really keep him occupied until the fucking
(29:17):
food gets there. But like, yeah, they're great. Yeah. Um,
that's good to know because it's peanut butter not just cool. Yeah.
Obviously if you have if your kid has an allergy
or your high a high risk of analogy, then bumbas
is not for you. But just look at the ingredients
and try and choose one that has more than just
a carbohydrant listed as the ingredient. Can you tell me
(29:38):
what real time is like in your family? Yes? What
is it like? Do you fit together? Do you eat
on like a schedule? Tell me, well, goodness, life has changed.
Um wait, try and eat at the same time as
our daughter, which often means if we eat out where
the first people in the restaurants here where they're like
(29:59):
four three, yeah, where they're waiting for the door start.
So I'm so I mean, this is this is when
you talk about like educating yourself. I'm so grateful for
this business for myself because meal I think had I
taken if I didn't have this information, there would be
a lot of power struggles going on at this age
(30:19):
that I don't have, which I'm very grateful for. So um,
we do try and eat together as a family. It's
not always possible, we do, we do it when we
can do it. We eat the same food. Yes see,
this is fucking huge, you guys. I've just read who
just told me there's this documentary now that it's basically
like the kid's menu on the restaurants is the greatest
(30:43):
downfall of America. That like the fact that you give
your child if you go out the choices for that
kind of thing. Because really, what you're trying to teach
my mom, for example, when she comes when I bring
Albie to go visit my mom, She'll be like, what
should I buy for the kid? And I'm like, just
what ever we're all eating because I'm trying to hopefully
(31:03):
teach him that, like we're all going to sit down
and have this dinner that's been planned like for the
whole family. I don't want to make something extra special
or different for you because you don't eat X, Y
or Z. I'm hoping that we can all just like
eat dinner whatever that is for all of us, and
that it's just healthy and whole for all of us. Um,
that will probably end because I was also a child
(31:25):
that like only a peanut butter and jelly macaroni cheese.
But okay, so you are doing the same thing. So
so yeah, I mean this is so Something that I
read which has really changed my approach is that, first
of all, don't be a short auto cook. If you're
a short auto cook, meaning if your child wanted what
(31:46):
you've put in front of them, you're going to go
back to the kitchen and make something else. This is
what then, please explain, So how can you then really
expect that your child is going to go out of
that if that become habitual, you know, like, oh, I
don't have to eat this because she's just going to
go get me the thing that I want. So I'm
just sort mocking order. So so you want to avoid that.
(32:10):
So here here is some So this is what we do.
So I love those plates that have little compartments because
it forces me to fill them all with different things.
So I every meal I feel each compartment or even
on a plate like just put lots of little things
out of what we're eating. So one compartment might be broccoli,
(32:34):
one might be for having bolonaise some bolonnaise. One might
be chopped up carrots, chopped up tomato, avocado, some cheese, whatever.
So I put that in front of her. She ates
what she ates, she doesn't ate what she doesn't eat.
I don't make a comment. She gets no praise, she
(32:55):
gets no criticism. She eats what she wants to eat.
Fucking ship tell you, guys, no praise. So here's the thing. Also,
having given any response to what they eat, positive or negative,
is not helpful. You want to stay neutral because what
you're really trying to do is raise a child that
(33:17):
can monitor their own likes and dislikes, and can also
monitor their own sense of fullness and hunger. So the
important thing here is to have a neutral response because
then the baby themselves independently, we'll figure out what they like,
what they don't like, and when they're hungry and when
they're full. Correct. So by for example, I read this,
(33:41):
I think it's from and I highly recommend guys this website.
You should put it up. Will you send me? I
will send you the link. It's the Ellen satur Institute.
She has such amazing tips on their um Now I've
gotten the tip. It's a great website. But you know
(34:02):
what you were telling me before, which was people who
grow up and can't remember meal time are the kids
that are most likely to not have any sort of
eating problems. You guys, what's so overwhelming. I think what
was so stressful to me about the food stuff and
why it's setting up their relationship with food for the
rest of their life is because there's so much connected
(34:26):
with food in this country about like you didn't finish
your plate, or one more bite, or you're not allowed
to leave the table until you're finished, or moms being
constantly talk to me about I'm on a diet, I'm
not eating this, I'm eating that, and giving their having
their children really understand that sort of thing. You were
telling me that there's a like people who grow up
(34:47):
and just don't even really remember meal time or no.
You were telling me that story about there was a
family who always bickered around the dinner table and it
was a big place for fighting, and that can relate
the field. Also. See, you guys are so stressful. So
I wanted to go back to what you said, which
is which is so important, which is that you know
(35:09):
the whole just have one bite, just one more bite
or um, if you have one bite I'll reward you
with this. So here's a lot of that in my house.
So here's the problem with the just have one more
bite thing. As you and I have days when we're
ravenous and days when we're just not hungry, so do babies.
They have days when they're going through major growth spirts
(35:30):
and days when they're just not really very hungry, or
they're teating or they feel sick. Um by you saying
to your child, you need to have one more bite,
what you're teaching them is external factors such as your
mother know more about your sense of hunger and fullness
than you do. And what you want to do is
you want to teach your child to monitor their own sensations.
(35:53):
You know, you want to empower them to say, I'm
really not hungry today, so I'm not going to eat.
I'm not going to force feed myself to make somebody
else happy, you know. So that whole one more bite
thing or praise or the praise yes you eat a bite,
which I totally do. So here's the thing with that
is that what you're also want to avoid as you
(36:15):
go into the sort of picky eating phase, which you
should know is actually a developmental milestone. Can you explain
that to us? So, so sort of like six months
to two years is the honeymoon period fit for food
because babies are going through such massive growth and then
from about two years it slows down. Um. And that's
(36:39):
typically when picky eating sort of or selective eating sort
of peaks. So so like your vocabulary change, we're not
saying picky eating, We're saying selective eating. I know. I say,
do not label your child. I mean, I try and
not be judgmental, and I try and be really open.
But when pairs actually this and yesterday at the farmer's market,
(37:01):
I had a parents say in front of his kids,
she's so picky, she won't need anything, um, And I
was like, no, she's not p I c k y.
She is selective and she you know, because that the
developmental milestone is that that toddlers become neophobic, which is
they have a distrust of the new. So coming back
(37:24):
to why it's so important to give your child variety
in the beginning, is that you want them to be
exposed to a variety of cuisines, spices, herbs, food textures,
everything so that it becomes familiar. So when they go
into this neophobic stage, distrust of the new. These foods
aren't new, they're familiar. So when you know, when parents
(37:45):
say to me, I'm about to get some curry up
in this house right now, because I feel like he
hasn't had You were saying it, and I was like,
oh God, they used to eat so much that when
I was pregnant, but I really haven't given him any
what the hell? So yeah, when parents well in food
and Adam doesn't, so it's like, oh, we never posemate that.
But like, guess what today is a new day? Oh
(38:12):
this was a question I was dying to ask. Okay,
So I love this compartment plate idea. Here's what my
son does. He doesn't like it, flings it on the floor.
Guess what happens. The dog eats it, The dog gets diarrhea.
It's a whole. My kid is a big flinger of food.
He's a big arm thrower. He loves to throw stuff, balls, dolls, toys, food.
(38:36):
I'll put the food down. If he's into it, he
will eat it. If he's not into it, he's flinging
it on the floor. So our problem with the compartment
plate is that it's just ends up being a lot
of shipped to clean up and you know kids like
he eats. Oh that's another question I wanted to ask
you is how many meals a day are you doing? One?
But also what do you think about my husband, which
(38:58):
is he literally puts one thing on his blade? Is
that just like insane? What complex and future problem? So
coming back to those plates that I was talking about,
he may be too young for that. You may. I
mean at this point even just putting a few things
out on that tray is perfect. Okay, great, I mean
I'm just talking about as a parent, like forcing yourself
(39:21):
to keep the variety there and you know the color
of the three or four things down so that he
only flings three or four so quick. So if does
this happen at every meal? Okay? So when are you
feeding him? Are you feeding him at the same time
every day you're feeding him? Because if he's ravenous, does
(39:42):
he still do that? No? So basically what will happen
is breakfast always a dream? So great, not that much
food flinging At the end. There might be food flinging,
which is like when he's done, which is really not
probably great that I know he's done when he's food
flinging um. Breakfast will always go off a lot of times.
(40:03):
I give him most days three meals and two snacks,
because what I'll do is like he'll have breakfast and
then he'll go down for a nap. When he wakes
up from a nap, he'll have a little snack of
like some grapes or half of clementine or you know,
some of that that he'll always cruit, crush, crush anything fruit.
He's never gonna flame that on the floor. Lunch, he
(40:24):
might fling some of that snack after his second nap,
he probably won't. And then later as we go in
the day, it's dinner. It's it's usually the witching hour,
five thirty ish five o'clock dinner. That like some of
that that's being flung. He's tired, he's piste. It's witching hour.
And so it's a lot of things I think is
(40:45):
temperament or whatever. But what time does he go down
for the night? Seven? So that's good. I mean that
you could have you have you tried bringing the meal
earlier in the day. I know I should do that well,
because the other thing is that's knack and and really
what I could do isn't. So if he wakes up
from a second up at four o'clock, give him a
(41:06):
bigger snap, then it's like a dinner, you know, with
a proteinser like that. And then the five thirty is
more like a dessert, not dessert, but in my mind
it's like a smaller snack of like, well, it's so
interesting because a lot of parents will give their their
babies dinner right before bedtime, you know, like five thirty six,
and then they do the bedtime return and put their
(41:27):
bed kid. And I'm like, I don't really want to
eat dinner and then immediately go to bed like you
should be should be kind of like a few hours before. No,
you know, so maybe bringing up earlier. I'm going to
try that, dude, I'm going to try that, try it
and say because I think I mean, obviously, when he's
(41:47):
the most hungry is when he does well, um, well,
but see this is the other thing. It's like, wow,
food is so it's so wrapped up with you're a
good boy, you're a bad boy type of stuff. And
I think it's also like, for example, I'm going on, um,
I'm going to see my family over the holidays, um,
and I'm cool with him not eating everything on the plate.
(42:13):
I'm cool with when he's experimenting and flinging food across
the thing. I'm like, he's one. Whatever. Some of the
older school people in my family think that that is
a very bad way to mother, and so it's very interesting,
you know what I mean, Like they think that I
don't have control over my kid, or that's really bad manners,
or you know, that's waste. You know, that's wasting money,
(42:36):
that's wasting food. There are people starving in the world,
things like that. So I really have to like put
on my like mommy muscle t shirt and just like
to stick to my well, this is what we do,
do you know what I mean? Because I want him
to have like a really healthy relationship with food, and
I don't want him to ever think I'm forcing him
or oh that was something I want to talk about.
(42:56):
Two is I think it's also really hard with partners.
You know that, Like I could my husband would get
really stressed out when he would flings food on the
floor and like would try to put stuff in his mouth,
not forcefully at all, but like put stuff in his mouth.
And I had to really have like a sort of
you know, you pick your battles in a relationship. But
it was big for me and I had to really
(43:17):
sit down with my husband and say, I don't ever
want you to put food in his mouth if he's
making it very clear that he doesn't want it, I
don't want that. But I bet that that's really hard
for some people. I think I think it comes down
and it gets frustrating. I mean, I've gotten you know,
when you're down on the floor picking up your six
fucking meal of the day and you're exhausted, You're like,
(43:39):
you know, we're done. I also think people probably get
really stressed out that if you don't eat, then you're
going to be hungry and then you're not going to sleep. Yes, Um,
is that true because that's me talking. Yeah. Yeah, like
the smallest dinner ever, and like now he's going to
be up at four o'clock in the morning because his
stomach is gonna wake him up, like what I mean. So, So,
(44:02):
I actually had this conversation yesterday with a moment at
the market and she was saying, Oh, my kids so
picky at the moment, and I just keep giving him
the same thing that he wants, and then at least
till eat, and I know that he's not going to
wake up, And in my head, I'm thinking, you know,
how is that going to change the situation you're in.
I mean, you're reinforcing you know, this this difficult time
(44:24):
and picky eating. As I said, it's a developmental milestone.
But the duration and the strength of that pickiness is
really going to depend on how you react to it,
you know. So um, it can be pretty short lived,
um and pretty easy if you just take a backseat
(44:48):
kind of approach rather than labeling catering too, you know,
and becoming a short order cook, um calling them good
bad like you're a good eater or he was a
bad eater today, things like that. This then becomes identity shaping.
I already feel in myself and admitting my own problems.
My son is small on the charts, you know, like
(45:10):
you know, third percentile and height and sent tile and weight.
So I'm always like, oh, yeah, it's fine, give him
more of that crap, like fill them up, you know
what I mean. Like he's little, he's a little he's
a little guy. He's a little dude. So like, yeah,
more dairy more, you know what I mean, Like I
already feel that in my um my subconscious like I'm
(45:31):
doing that. It's wild. And then I have friends who
have really big babies who you know, they cut them on.
I mean, it's really. I mean food is like I'm saying,
it's really it's an interesting thing. So here's the thing
on that, Um, even as a baby, even right from
the start, babies can monitor their own sense of hunger
and fullness. Like I was saying, Um, if a baby
doesn't open their mouth to receive a spoon of food
(45:54):
from you, your baby is saying no yah. Um. So
you know, don't shove that spoon in your baby's mouth,
you know, because like I said, like this is about
creating a healthy relationship with food. Nobody enjoys being force
fed not you know, So can we talk about the
(46:14):
idea of food as rewards. This was big on my
husband and I growing up and I and we fight
it to this day. And I know this is a
real thing because my husband and I similarly like you
got an a, get in the car, we're going for
ice cream. You know what, you didn't get into that school.
The whole family is going out for like you know,
(46:35):
t G I Friday's mozorel sticks of your favorite food.
I mean this is literally like memories we have and
when you're an actor, every day is like you booked it. Yeah,
thirty seven drinks. Let's have like ice cream and go
out to a movie and bull and then it's like, crap,
you didn't get it. You didn't get the part. Well,
let's just like drink and eat some garbage like whatever.
(46:58):
My husband and I are very reward based. We were
raised that way and we are like always having conversations
that we don't want that. For Albie, I am people
must tempt with food, Like if you go peepy on
the party, you're going to get an emine. So like
that one's a really good one for me to just
come out and say, like, please don't do that. Don't
(47:22):
use food as a reward. I'm trying to remember. I
think it's um Cynthia Epps another great resource, and I'll
send you her website and I think it's her. Forgive
me if it's not. She's awesome anyway. But um, what
I read about is how you know when you put
snacks out one day, you'll put out you know, crew
(47:44):
to tey, like you know, chopped up carrots and cumbers
and such. The next day a bowl of cookies, chop
chip cookies the next day fruit make it so that
it's not hands off, you know, to make something hands
off or only special occasion. Food makes it special, makes
(48:06):
it unattainable, like make puts this like gold light around it.
Whereas if it's accessible and it's just something else that
you can have on occasion, you're creating a much more
even playing field when it comes with your your child's
relationship with different kinds of food. So coming back to
what is the job of a parent. The job of
(48:28):
a parent is not to feed your child. It is
not to make your child eat. Sorry, I'm gonna say
that again. The job of a parent is not to
make your child eat. The job your job as a
parent is to offer healthy options. So you're deciding the
when and the where. Your child is deciding the weather
and how much. That's the differentiation of losing control. So
(48:54):
I know, my job is just to make sure that
my child has the options, and I'm going to asked
my child to decide whether they eat and how much
of it um and so with rewards food, you know,
if like we where I'm very health conscious and I
love healthy food. I love it. It's not just I
(49:14):
don't just do it because for a functional reasons. I
really love healthy food. Um. So, mostly my child like
her sweets, things like dried fruit, um, you know, things
like that. Um. But when we're out in the world
and occasionally at home, when there's food that other children
(49:36):
are eating that is like chocolate, cake, ice cream, stuff
like that, I always say yes because I don't want
her to feel like other people can have something that's
off limits to her. So yeah, I inside, I'm like,
you know, I prefer she a family that was like vegan,
(49:58):
the kids were vegan and no sugar in the household,
things like that. And when the birthday started, the birthday
party started rolling out, I mean, holy sh it, I
didn't know what to do. I mean, like the kids
are like screaming for hot dogs and like and the
birthday cake and they're showing up at home like smeared
with icing all over their face. And it's my fault.
(50:19):
But it's like, what was I going to do? I mean,
it's really hard, but the kids were never given it,
and it's they became obsessed and you have to see
it from their perspective, like what emotionally is going on
with their minds when they see other children having fun,
eating and enjoying something and they themselves are not allowed it.
(50:40):
It's it's even though we we think in our minds
were doing it for the right reasons, it's healthy, where
we don't want them to have cavities or whatever it is,
They're not reading it that way. They're saying, why this
is unfair, like why can't I? And then later in
life it's the switch flip, you know, They're like, suddenly
(51:01):
I can have all these food I'm out in the world,
and then they don't have these skills to monitor, you know,
the amount they eat and they's off limit food. You know. Um,
do you ever find like, since I'm about to be
with all family and things like that, how you talk
about your family's food choices with others, Like like, I
(51:22):
think it's going to be really interesting, like how you
stay strong in your goals and your relationship with food
with your kids, or like you said, you're out at
a birthday party and other people have other things that
feel other ways than you do. That's an interesting one.
I mean, we're we're about to go and baby family
as well. Um, I think you know, for me personally,
(51:46):
that shift of sort of speaking up for myself, um,
for my daughter really became very strong when I gave
birth to her. Because your preferences are your preferences, and ultimately,
who gives a ship it if other people agree or disagree,
what's most important is that you're doing what's right by
you and your child. Um. So you know, I really try.
(52:11):
I mean my family is pretty health conscious and pretty
cool that way. So I mean they, no, that's very sweet,
keep the compliments coming. Um No. But I mean my
nephews eat way more, um, processed food than my daughter does.
My sisters like really hands off, like whatever goes, Um,
(52:33):
we're going away, and I just I'm going to take
deep breaths and let her in those moments have a
really great time because ultimately, I feel like, you know,
if food brings if food is so much more than
just like for nutrition, it like brings people together, it's joy,
it's memories. Um, And so I feel like that freaking
(52:54):
every single photo we took over Thanksgiving with my son,
he's holding what's called a grandma cookie, which is in
my husband's side of the family. It's a recipe that's
been handed down by four grandma's. It's her great great
great grandma Lena's cookie recipe. It's a short bread cookie
and it means so much to his grandma's that he
loves the cookie. And it's like he had to not
(53:16):
cry in all these photos. And so I gat giving
him grandma cookies and they loved that he was eating
the grandma cookies in the photos. And I was like, wow,
I think you've had five cookies today and now you're
not going to eat anything of value. But whatever, it
brought joy to everyone, including him, So it's like, what
are you gonna do? At least it was homemade with
like whole ingredients. And that's what I knew when I
(53:39):
actually studied nutrition in Australia, and I remember one of
my teachers talking about and she was like vegan, super clean,
all of that stuff. And I remember her saying that
on her birthday, her kids, her two kids, who had
saved up their pocket money, had gone to buy her
a box of um Burger rings. Do you have them here?
(54:00):
They know what they're rings? No? No, they're they're I
think they're Australian. They're kind of like Cheetos, but that
you can fit them on your finger and eat them.
Do you have that? Okay? Burger rings anyway? Um? So
she said it was her birthday. Her kids ran into
her room with this wrapped up gift, glowing like so excited.
(54:21):
They've been saving up for this present on her birthday.
So she opens it up and there is this big
box of burger rings, which not in her life, which
she usually eat. You ever, and she said, she looked
at the box of burger rings, and she looked at
her children's face, and she said, this is soul food.
I'm going to sit here, I'm going to open it.
I'm going to enjoy it for breakfast with my children,
(54:43):
and it's going to fill my soul and it's going
to make them feel happy, and it's going to make
me feel happy. And I think, ultimately, if we remember
that food plays such an important part in our social
lives and in our family lives, that you know, and
it is so much more than just having a function. Um.
I think if we can keep that in at the
forefront of our minds, I love that. UM. What is
(55:07):
your advice for parents who are starting on their food
journey with their child? If you had to say anything,
I guess to you're younger, you're you're transitioning into solid
food mom self, I would say, um that the most
important thing to remember is that between the ages of
(55:29):
six months and twelve months of age, there is a
time called the flavor window, and that is that a
baby is more open than at any other stage in
their life of trying new things. So taste textures, spices, herbs, sweets, um, sour.
So have fun, you know, use this time, within reason,
(55:51):
of course, to expose your child two foods that you
yourself wouldn't necessarily cook in your home. Um, so that
you are really opening and beginning your child's journey culinary
journey through life. You know, I think about it like that. Yeah,
so have fun. It's if you feel good about it,
(56:12):
they're going to feel good about it. Um. Yeah, herbs
and spices and spices. I love that you are. This
is so informative. I learned so much, so did Roger.
You can hear embarking. Roger says, I love Albie's food
just as much as Albie does when he flings it
on the floor. Tolly, thank you so much. We're going
(56:34):
to put links to the books you said um and
links to Tummy Time. You guys, this is so helpful
and eye opening and I wish I had spoken to
you a year ago, but hey, better late than never.
Thank you, Thank you, Katie's Crib. Thank you guys so
much for listening to Katie's Crib. And be sure to
check out Shonda land dot com where you can find
(56:55):
every episode of Katie's Crib. And we've got crib notes
for each episode where you can find out more about
our guests and links to some of the resources we
talked about on the podcast. And last, but not least, subscribe.
We're on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher basically like wherever you
get your podcasts.
Hi everybody, and welcome back to Katie's crib. In this episode,
I'm very excited because we're talking about food, which was
a very crazily and weirdly stressful thing to me. Transitioning
to solid foods for Albie and for me was super stressful.
And I feel like parents and moms, obviously they want
(00:25):
to give their child the best, the tastiest, the most
nutritious meals, and I was so overwhelmed. I didn't know
where to start. Do you go with prepackaged baby food?
Do you go the d I Y route and you
make it yourself. I have this wonderful friend named Talia
Moore who is sitting here with me, and we actually
first met because you taught my baby class. Yes, childbirth education. Yes,
(00:47):
Talia taught me child birth education at Beanie Birth, which
is this awesome. I don't even know how you would explain.
I say it's a BITH center or center of BITH
because selectation consultant, there's midwives, there's mommy and made classes.
And you are also a dueler, right yes? Whoa Okay,
So Talia is very knowledgeable on babies. You're also a
(01:10):
mom yourself. I am how old is your daughter. She's
three And if you notice, guys, Talia has a very
sexy accent. Where are you from, Dahlia, very far down
South Australia. Where in Australia Melbourne? Amazing? And does your
daughter have like the coolest Australian name ever? What is it? No,
(01:31):
it's Miami, It's it's Hebrew and hinder what the Hebrew
is made? The Hindu is my husband? What say the
name again? Miyami Mayani? That is freaking beautiful. Um, you
guys should all know that. On top of Tally Moore
being a very fancy teacher and doula at beany birth,
(01:52):
she also is the owner of Tummy Time, which is
spelled t h y n e. We're going to put
a link to it on cribs notes, where she makes
and crafted baby food delivered to families and guys, let
me tell you, Talia has a stand at the Studio
City farmers Market every Sunday and the line is around
the corner for this baby food that you make. And
(02:12):
I was like, God, I've always wanted to do an
episode about food because it was such a stressful thing
for me. And you are just the first person that
came to my mind to talk to you about this.
So let's get back. Let's get into your personal life.
What was your relationship with food like before you were
when you were a kid, Like, were you raised on
d I y food? Like? Did your mom make food?
(02:34):
My mom actually owned a catering company at some point um,
and she had a focus on Australian bush cuisine, super
random spices and herbs like um quandong lily pilli um,
not like household spices and herbs. So she very quirky
(02:56):
sense of cooking my mom has. So I grew up
eating really um interesting food. But also the area that
we live in Melbourne is very multicultural and so yeah,
I didn't even actually people ask me what did you
grow up eating in Australia. I'm like, foe, you know,
Thai food, Middle Eastern I don't even know exactly. I mean,
(03:19):
other than my mom's the food that my mom was
cooking for her catering company. It was very cultural. Yes,
oh that's so very yeah. So my question to you
is when do you switch a baby to solid foods?
This is very like controversial, right, what is your advice
(03:41):
on that? Well? I mean I think I think what's
most important. There's there's so many myths. I don't even
know where to start. It's a huge question. And like
I said, guys, and this was this is a huge episode.
This was super freaking stressful to me. Like once I
got the breastfeeding down and I was doing that, I
was like a weak ship. Now we're going to solid foods,
(04:03):
Like how do you do that? And choking and like
diarrhea and like what's going to happen? Like I just
got a handle on breastfeeding or formula, whatever you're doing,
So when is the time? So what I would say is,
first of all, it depends where you live in the world.
So for us in the US, you know, it's it's
(04:26):
somewhere between sort of the four to seven month mark
is what pediatricians will say. Um, here's the number one myth.
The introduction of solids is actually a developmental milestone. It's
not a weight milestone. It's developmental. So for each baby
that's going to be slightly different. There's these myths like, oh,
(04:48):
I've got a larger baby, he must be hungry, he
needs more food. But actually larger babies often are a
little bit slower with those cues that say they're ready,
like they find it harder to hold their head up, so,
which is one of the really important cues you know,
to begin to begin food. So, um, it's a developmental milestone.
So things that you're looking out for include a baby
(05:11):
that can hold their head up, a baby that can
sit unassisted, a baby that's reaching for food showing an
interest in food. A baby that's using has the ability
to grasp an object and bring it to their hand,
which is called the palmer grasp, m palmer grasp. So
that's the baby can pick up food. And like the
exactly a big developmental miles that is needed for eating definitely, Um,
(05:36):
the loss of the thrust reflex where they push food
out of their mouth, so they need to be able
to swallow the food. Um. So yeah, so these these
are very important miles. It's crazy about this whole food
thing is like it's a mother sort of instinctual thing
where it's like if you're seeing your baby obviously sitting up,
(05:58):
you're drinking a glass of water, and the babies like
pawing at your glass like crazy and really wants to
try it or you know, something like that, and like
you said, they keep putting toys in their mouth. They
obviously have that palmer grasp situation. And it's also, you know,
we we get so many questions about, oh, you know,
my baby is not sleeping through the night, he must
(06:18):
be hungry. You know. This is around like the four
to six months, or let's say around four months, which
is actually there's often sleep. There's a little regression, but
that's due to a different milestone. But often people will
associate that with my baby needs solids. But actually you
should wait until your baby is showing all of these
(06:40):
cues because it's not to do with sleep. The interruption
of sleep or a baby waking and not being able
to go back to sleep is actually a baby's inability
to soothe themselves. It's not about food about food. Yes see,
I've heard a lot of this from friends around this,
that four month sleep aggression. Whether they're like, well, clear
clearly they're waking up in the night because of not
(07:00):
getting enough calories in the day. So there, let's feed them,
let's feed them, let's feed them. I personally waited till
six months to even try food again because I was
so fucking stressed out that I just kept pushing it off.
Like I was, like, I don't want to, and then
by six months I was it was much more of
an experimentation than it was eating food by any way,
(07:20):
shape form I kept and do you think that that's okay? Yeah?
I mean the the like the initial the initial um
introduction is the focus really should be on exploration and play.
Right Having said that, though, um, what do they say
before one is just for fun, you know, which is
(07:41):
somewhat true. But also from about six months of age,
a baby's iron levels drop, and so you want babies
at that point, even if they're just smearing the food
all over their face and getting the tiniest bit in
their mouth, great opportunity to get some of that iron
in there, you know, by using an iron rich food
like meat or leafy greens or b exactly exactly. So
(08:04):
um no, but yeah, it should be on fun and play.
And I think that, you know from my conversations going
around mommy and Me groups and chatting with parents about
how stressful this period of time can be. When really,
if you're following your baby's natural cues, it's very straightforward
(08:25):
and it should be easy, you know, But if if
you're feeling anxiety or stressed, your baby picks up on that,
and remember these first couple of years, you're really shaping
your child's relationship with food for life and that little
bit of pressure. I'm so stressed out. People keep sucking
(08:45):
telling me that, Like I mean, I literally just have
a peanut butter and jelly bread eating monster like this
kid is like like me. I eat peanut butter and
jelly sandwiches for ten years, every single day. But we'll
get to there because basically, again I use Katie's crib
as my way to figure out how to best parent Alva. Okay,
(09:08):
you guys, So I know we've been talking about transitioning
babies to solid foods, but really quick, I want to
talk to you guys about something is super cool that
has helped me save so much money while I shop
for the prepackaged baby food. I told you guys about
it last week and I'm telling you again you have
got to try it. It is free, yes, I said free.
App called drop very Easy. It's spelled d r o
(09:29):
P and it's where moms like us can shop at
Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, Target, etcetera, etcetera, and you get
points for shopping I love me some points. So all
you have to do it's really easy. You've got to
link your debit or credit card to the app when
you sign up, and then you easily gain the points
wooo every time you shop. So I benefit the most
from all my coffee runs at Starbucks for example, all
(09:51):
my ubers to friends, houses, diapers, formula, I get a target,
and then later I redeem for gift cards at all
my favorite places. So it is seriously, it is my
new favorite app, and I want to share the wealth,
and I'm giving you guys, all my listeners, a five
dollar Starbucks gift card immediately when you sign up. It's
all you gotta do is sign up and you get
(10:12):
a five dollar Starbucks gift card and you link your
card by using the code Katie's Crip spelled k A
T I E S c R I B. Make sure
you check it out. You guys, you will love it.
You're welcome, go get your Starbucks on. Okay, let's get
back to Katie's Crib. What kind of foods do you
recommend people try first? So this is interesting because even
(10:34):
when I started feeding my daughter two and a half
years ago, when she was six months, so much has
changed in the information, even just in these last couple
of years. UM, and that's based on particularly in the US.
UM pediatricians and pediatric nutritionists have said, like, what's going
(10:54):
on here in America? We have such high rate of allergies,
we have basicity, we have of you know, um, all
of this going on, and yet in other parts of
the world exactly like WHOA. So initially, you know, you
were supposed to or a few years ago, you were
not supposed to introduce the allergens until much later. Now
(11:17):
they're saying, actually, that's one of the first things that
you should be doing, is introducing these allergens. Um, you know, repetitively,
you should be introducing them. So things that research has
changed now. The pediatric nutritions that we work with for
tummy time was just saying to me, you know, really
(11:37):
tell your parents variety, variety of variety, you know, keep
trying different things. It doesn't matter what you start with
within reason, you know, um, and start with like Y,
well yeah, but what did you start with? Well I
(11:58):
started with so with with my daughter. I actually initially
the first few weeks was pretty I'm pretty anxious by nature,
so so initially I was doing the and our pediatrician
had said, do the three one ingredient weight three days.
So and I love list. Explain what that is? Because
I did not do this. This did nothing but stress
(12:19):
me out. But so I was told by our pediatrician,
UM to introduce one singular ingredient for three days in
a row and then to introduce a new one for
three days in a row an allergic reaction to it. Correct. However,
I have since learned learned that, UM, a lot of
pediatricians don't recommend doing that anymore, and that that's not
(12:42):
the way. I didn't do that, and actually that's not
the way in which the rest of the world introduce
the solids, you know. So for me, I was just saying,
I love lists, so I like I every three days
I would add a new vegetable or fruit to the list.
So I had this long list of the order of
which I introduced food to Miami. For god knows what
(13:03):
reason I have this list, um. And I remember face
timing my sister in Australia who had a baby a
week after me. And you know, she my nephew same
age as my daughter. UM was she was holding a
lamb shank and he was sucking on it. Meanwhile, I'm
on like the third day of plain zucchini, you know,
(13:24):
and he's like sucking on this delicious you know, lamb
shack so um. And that just got me thinking like, okay,
so that it doesn't have to be this way. And
my family lists like peach, peach, peach, exactly, let's add
in peach, avocado, peach, avocado, peach avocado. Okay, let's add
(13:44):
I had friends doing that, and I was like, this
is so fucking stressful to me, Like I cannot, Like
I would give him avocado for a few meals and
I'm like the same. He seems happy. Okay, We're good.
Moving on then, like I just didn't. I was like,
he'll let me know if something to it. And with
severe allergies, you don't need to wait three days to
(14:05):
know if your child has a severe allergy, it's it's straightaway. Um. So, yes,
there are some pediatricians that are still quite conservative, but
a lot of pediatricians in our saying variety doesn't matter
what order um goes people try. What about the people
who are like, do vegetables first, because as soon as
(14:27):
you do, fruity sugar as your kids going to be
sugar addicted? Is that true? Well no, because a couple
of reasons. First of all, carrots have almost the same
amount of sugar as apple, so okay. But also babies
are naturally sweet lovers, so they're always going to go
(14:47):
towards right. So yes, So I think that that's a
little bit of falsity, falsehood, whatever it is, I'll take it,
because good lord, I'm like, I do have some good
friends who are like, you know, well, I don't think
it's about but you know, they don't take out the
apple sauce or something like that until the kid has
(15:09):
gotten through, you know, started the meal with some vegetables
and maybe like a protein of some sort, and then
have a because as soon as they even see the
apple come out, it's like everything else goes on the floor,
which is like, hey, I get it. I rather the
apple too. Um can you tell us about tummy time? Yes,
(15:31):
Tommy time is delicious. I warn you all that adults
will like it as well, thank you. Um So, So
Tommy Time sort of happened by chance. I was I
was in a mummy and me group, um which around
six months of age, and each week the woman that
was laid in the class would ask us all to
(15:52):
share what we were feeding our kids, because we were
all at that sort of introduction of solid stage and
wake after wake would go around and parents were like,
you know, the moms were like, I don't know, I'm
doing avocado again. There was one mom who was so
anxious about um nitrates and so anxious about um what
(16:14):
to feed her kid that was appropriate that she was
just buying prepackaged jars of like carrot, pre package jars
of like beans and stuff like that. UM. And then
I would share what I was making. And I was
making I was like roasting plums with ginger and like
there was it was at the time it was I
(16:36):
think there were cherries and I was. I was, yeah,
I was roasting chairs. I was. It was just so
yum what I was making. And I think as as
we would go around the circle and I was sharing
these delicious meals, she would have one bite, I would
have one bite, and it was this shared experience. UM.
So one of the moms shout out to Ginger actually
(16:56):
said to me, UM begged me if if I would
double batch what I was making, because she wasn't into
cooking and didn't have time she was working. So I
so I started, after a couple of weeks of sort
of encouragement from the other moms, I started sending out
an email of what I was planning on making for
(17:16):
Miami that week, that I'd gotten the product I had
gotten from the farmer's market, um, and they would send
back their orders. So I would cook during the week.
And my way of cooking enough food for everybody and
having it still you know, um, fresh and good was
to freeze it so that they could come pick up
their little bags of cubes um and take it home.
(17:39):
And my husband, you know, also Australian loves his liquor,
had a lot of whiskey ice cube trays, so I
was so I was freezing in whiskey ice cube trays um,
and then on a Sunday all these families would come
and collect their food for the week. Um. And then
(18:01):
within a few months I was feeding multiple mummy and
me groups and I got too much. We actually my
husband said to me, I'm pulling the park. I'm going
to start dropping the food off because I don't want
all that. It was too many people, people, families coming
and it was lovely. It was very community and beautiful.
But they got a point that it was like we
wanted to go do something and we had people waiting
(18:22):
for people to come and cuck their food. So so
Timmy time really began that way. Um, And really the
whole concept of it is that baby food should be delicious.
You know, babies are exposed. This is so cool. Babies
are exposed to their first tastes whilst in utero. So
(18:47):
what a mum's eating, The spices and herbs that she's
eating are actually flavoring her amniotic fluid. So in India,
these babies are experiencing curry and tumeric and ginger and
asad fotida and like all these some spices. Um, and
then they're born, they go to mom's breast and mom's
breast milk is then flavored with what she's eating. They're getting,
(19:08):
you know, notes of garlic and all of this stuff.
So we go from flavor flavor flavor to you get
carrots steamed for three days carrot. You know it's it's
it's like these babies have taste buds, you know. So Um,
when we when we decided to really make this a business,
we went and tried some of the really highly processed
(19:31):
jars and I couldn't even like, no offense, but I
don't want to eat some of that stuff. It just
wasn't palatable to me. So if I'm not going to
eat it myself, how can I, in good conscious conscience
give it to my child? And I'm not even talking
about the fact that these are highly processed, you know,
and that you're you're you're raising your child or you're
(19:51):
you're teaching your child that highly processed food is the norm,
which you know, it's there for a reason, but it shouldn't.
It's not the gold standard because not only is it
culturally bland, there's no asafatida or ginger in baby food
jars that are sitting on a power to sitting on
a shelter for a few years. Um, there's no texture transition.
(20:16):
So you know, um, this is going to take me
off on a whole other other route. But um, you know,
babies have to transition into different into into chunkier textures
to the smoothest you guys know, they start with the
smoothest baby food that's almost like a liquid still, and
then gradually you get chunkier and chunkier and chunk here
(20:39):
until they're learning how to swallow a truly solid not blended.
That's if you're doing spoon feeding. But if you're doing
baby lead wedding, they yeah, so bait so they know.
I don't mean to say they, but I mean in
baby lead weaning, Um so baby letters, I'm saying food
is the biggest fucking overwhelming thing. This almost killed me.
(21:02):
I read the baby lead waning book. I was scared, petrified,
but it's what I did, Thank God. Well, if you
if you're going to do the baby lead waning route,
you need to educate yourself on the difference between choking
and gagging, because it's actually very normal for babies to gag.
And it's good because then they learned next time, Oh,
I'm going to be more careful. Baby lead weaning is
essentially like instead of going up in baby jar, okay,
(21:24):
so baby jars, the ones that are on shelves are
leveled in numbers one, two, three, four, five, six as
far as their level of chunky is concerned, so that
the baby is slowly learning how to swell. I had
a lot of mom friends have to do that because
they were completely They loved the idea of baby lead waning,
which essentially means you give the baby adult food and
they like kind of non it and teach themselves. I mean,
(21:45):
I gave him a broccoli that's a certain you can
read the book. We'll put a link to it baby leaning,
but they hold a broccoli head and they sort of
learn how to chew it. And And my mom flipped out
that I was doing this, like so upset when I
give them a banana to just eat himself. Like she
was like, he's going to choke, He's going to die.
This is a nightmare. Now. The first couple of times
he coughed something up, I was like shaking, so scared.
(22:10):
But you're right, it was probably only three or four
times he ever did that, and then he learned how
to like never choke. He learned what he could do.
Is that I mean, I mean no I did. I
didn't do baby led weaning the first time. Well I've
only had one time, so I asked me after the second.
But but because I'm anxious, you know, by nature, with
(22:31):
a lot of my friends, and you know, I mean
my sister was doing that, That's why exactly. But so
here's the thing, and it's the same with when I
teach child with education classes and we talk about labor.
It's the same thing with you know, solids, do what
is going to make you feel most at ase, because
(22:53):
that's going to create the most positive outcome. And ultimately,
who cares if you did pure as your cares, if
you did baby lead waning. Your kid's not going to remember,
but your kid will remember the energy that was around
that meal, and they will remember your face. You know,
if you're sitting there looking petrified, your child is taking
that on, you know. But if you're totally at ease,
(23:15):
no matter what method or approach you take, your child
is absorbing that and taking that on. And ultimately, what
what is the end goal here? The end goal here
is we're raising a human being that loves food relationship
and has yeah and has a wonderful relationship with food.
(23:36):
And that begins from the start, you know, And it's
a very important legacy as a parent, you know, to
to get your child off on the right foot. Now,
I've definitely been in this situation which we talked touched on,
like you know, the prepackaged processed foods at the grocery store.
(23:59):
I mean, we have one ent relied on that many
a time. Like, you know, even though he was on
solid foods, there were days where his teeth were all
coming in and he was like literally would bite down
and scream his head off, And so I would grab
one of those packets, you know what I mean, And
he would eat vegetables that way because I definitely was
not someone that was going to grind up a zuoki.
(24:21):
I don't cook. Let's let's just let that be known
Katie's crib listeners. I do not look I do not
know how, um, but I am definitely a lying at
tummy time at Studio City Formers Market. But so, what
are some of the red flags for people to look
out for? Like if if those sort of packets or
jars are the way that you're deciding to go, that's
the least amount of anxiety for you, or you're in
(24:43):
a bind and it's not a staple, but you do
use them once in a while. What what are the
red lakes? What are the red flags? So before I
answer that question, I just want to say, like I
also use them, absolutely no shame in using them. Please. Um.
You know, I have people coming up to the Famber's
ark and they're like, oh, I feel terrible. You know,
all my kid eight this week was processed stuff, and
(25:05):
I'm like, you've fed your child. Good for you. You're
fucking awesome. Like, go to be proud of yourself. You know,
they're there for a reason, and they're awesome in a pinch,
you know. Um, yes, I do think that they're not
the gold standard, but absolutely we all use them in
a pinch and that's what they're They're great. Forum. I
(25:26):
would say it comes down to information and education. In
order for a carrot from the farmer's market to survive
two years on a shelf, something had to happen to
that carrot. Okay. So so even if it says organic
on that pouch or whatever, if that if it's not
(25:49):
in a refrigerator and it's two plus years old, something
happened to that sweet little carrot. Okay. So it's just
understanding that the further or a a food is from
its original form, the more present, the more processed it is,
the more processed, the less amount of nutrients. Okay. So
(26:13):
at this very young age, when babies have such small tummies,
it is really important that they are getting a good
quality or or enough of those key nutrients. So, coming
back to your question red flags what to look out for.
My suggestion is, you know, um, choose choose pouches that
(26:37):
are not just fruit and vegetables. Choose ones that have
an animal protein in it, or a grain or a legume,
something that's a little bit more um wholesome. You know,
there's more nutrients in there for the baby. Um, have
a look at the ingredients lists. This is something that like,
totally honestly, working in food manufacturing, now I am fairly
(27:04):
horror f you are seeing behind the curtain. It is. Well,
it's just amazing how you can hide information, you know,
or or not even just hide. It's kind of in
pure in plain sight, but you don't realize. You know,
some of the pouchers and jars they have, like their
(27:27):
ingredients will say, you know, apple pure a rather than
just apple. So what that tells me is that was
probably purchased from another country or elsewhere in big vats
of premate pure a, and they've just repackaged it and
mixed it into their own container. So now again we're
(27:48):
talking about how far away this apple is from its
original form so far so you know, um, so yeah,
coming back to no shame. I certainly have used them
in a pinch, but um, you know, not the gold standard.
If you do have to use them, try and find
one that has a variety of flavors and has something,
(28:11):
you know, either a protein leg being yeah something. Yeah,
that's really good to know what. The other thing I
just want to throw out is the puffs. We see
a lot of babies eating the puffs. Choose those parts
and they're great, you know, particularly teating babies that want
to like gum something that they're great when you're buying them.
(28:34):
Choose one that is not just a rice or a carbohydrate.
You can get ones that have peanut butter or you know,
like a Bumba. We go through bumbas like it's a problem.
Bumbas are a traitor Joe's. They're incredibly affordable. They're a
peanut butter flavored cheeto, sourly processed. Yes, but if you're
(28:55):
going to do it, at least it's protein and you're
you're that's our plane. Go to every plane we're on, Like,
you know, I bring them if we have like a
restaurant out situation where he's in a high chair and
I know it's going to be a minute until that
food comes. I will break those bombas into like four
pieces to just really keep him occupied until the fucking
(29:17):
food gets there. But like, yeah, they're great. Yeah. Um,
that's good to know because it's peanut butter not just cool. Yeah.
Obviously if you have if your kid has an allergy
or your high a high risk of analogy, then bumbas
is not for you. But just look at the ingredients
and try and choose one that has more than just
a carbohydrant listed as the ingredient. Can you tell me
(29:38):
what real time is like in your family? Yes? What
is it like? Do you fit together? Do you eat
on like a schedule? Tell me, well, goodness, life has changed.
Um wait, try and eat at the same time as
our daughter, which often means if we eat out where
the first people in the restaurants here where they're like
(29:59):
four three, yeah, where they're waiting for the door start.
So I'm so I mean, this is this is when
you talk about like educating yourself. I'm so grateful for
this business for myself because meal I think had I
taken if I didn't have this information, there would be
a lot of power struggles going on at this age
(30:19):
that I don't have, which I'm very grateful for. So um,
we do try and eat together as a family. It's
not always possible, we do, we do it when we
can do it. We eat the same food. Yes see,
this is fucking huge, you guys. I've just read who
just told me there's this documentary now that it's basically
like the kid's menu on the restaurants is the greatest
(30:43):
downfall of America. That like the fact that you give
your child if you go out the choices for that
kind of thing. Because really, what you're trying to teach
my mom, for example, when she comes when I bring
Albie to go visit my mom, She'll be like, what
should I buy for the kid? And I'm like, just
what ever we're all eating because I'm trying to hopefully
(31:03):
teach him that, like we're all going to sit down
and have this dinner that's been planned like for the
whole family. I don't want to make something extra special
or different for you because you don't eat X, Y
or Z. I'm hoping that we can all just like
eat dinner whatever that is for all of us, and
that it's just healthy and whole for all of us. Um,
that will probably end because I was also a child
(31:25):
that like only a peanut butter and jelly macaroni cheese.
But okay, so you are doing the same thing. So
so yeah, I mean this is so Something that I
read which has really changed my approach is that, first
of all, don't be a short auto cook. If you're
a short auto cook, meaning if your child wanted what
(31:46):
you've put in front of them, you're going to go
back to the kitchen and make something else. This is
what then, please explain, So how can you then really
expect that your child is going to go out of
that if that become habitual, you know, like, oh, I
don't have to eat this because she's just going to
go get me the thing that I want. So I'm
just sort mocking order. So so you want to avoid that.
(32:10):
So here here is some So this is what we do.
So I love those plates that have little compartments because
it forces me to fill them all with different things.
So I every meal I feel each compartment or even
on a plate like just put lots of little things
out of what we're eating. So one compartment might be broccoli,
(32:34):
one might be for having bolonaise some bolonnaise. One might
be chopped up carrots, chopped up tomato, avocado, some cheese, whatever.
So I put that in front of her. She ates
what she ates, she doesn't ate what she doesn't eat.
I don't make a comment. She gets no praise, she
(32:55):
gets no criticism. She eats what she wants to eat.
Fucking ship tell you, guys, no praise. So here's the thing. Also,
having given any response to what they eat, positive or negative,
is not helpful. You want to stay neutral because what
you're really trying to do is raise a child that
(33:17):
can monitor their own likes and dislikes, and can also
monitor their own sense of fullness and hunger. So the
important thing here is to have a neutral response because
then the baby themselves independently, we'll figure out what they like,
what they don't like, and when they're hungry and when
they're full. Correct. So by for example, I read this,
(33:41):
I think it's from and I highly recommend guys this website.
You should put it up. Will you send me? I
will send you the link. It's the Ellen satur Institute.
She has such amazing tips on their um Now I've
gotten the tip. It's a great website. But you know
(34:02):
what you were telling me before, which was people who
grow up and can't remember meal time are the kids
that are most likely to not have any sort of
eating problems. You guys, what's so overwhelming. I think what
was so stressful to me about the food stuff and
why it's setting up their relationship with food for the
rest of their life is because there's so much connected
(34:26):
with food in this country about like you didn't finish
your plate, or one more bite, or you're not allowed
to leave the table until you're finished, or moms being
constantly talk to me about I'm on a diet, I'm
not eating this, I'm eating that, and giving their having
their children really understand that sort of thing. You were
telling me that there's a like people who grow up
(34:47):
and just don't even really remember meal time or no.
You were telling me that story about there was a
family who always bickered around the dinner table and it
was a big place for fighting, and that can relate
the field. Also. See, you guys are so stressful. So
I wanted to go back to what you said, which
is which is so important, which is that you know
(35:09):
the whole just have one bite, just one more bite
or um, if you have one bite I'll reward you
with this. So here's a lot of that in my house.
So here's the problem with the just have one more
bite thing. As you and I have days when we're
ravenous and days when we're just not hungry, so do babies.
They have days when they're going through major growth spirts
(35:30):
and days when they're just not really very hungry, or
they're teating or they feel sick. Um by you saying
to your child, you need to have one more bite,
what you're teaching them is external factors such as your
mother know more about your sense of hunger and fullness
than you do. And what you want to do is
you want to teach your child to monitor their own sensations.
(35:53):
You know, you want to empower them to say, I'm
really not hungry today, so I'm not going to eat.
I'm not going to force feed myself to make somebody
else happy, you know. So that whole one more bite
thing or praise or the praise yes you eat a bite,
which I totally do. So here's the thing with that
is that what you're also want to avoid as you
(36:15):
go into the sort of picky eating phase, which you
should know is actually a developmental milestone. Can you explain
that to us? So, so sort of like six months
to two years is the honeymoon period fit for food
because babies are going through such massive growth and then
from about two years it slows down. Um. And that's
(36:39):
typically when picky eating sort of or selective eating sort
of peaks. So so like your vocabulary change, we're not
saying picky eating, We're saying selective eating. I know. I say,
do not label your child. I mean, I try and
not be judgmental, and I try and be really open.
But when pairs actually this and yesterday at the farmer's market,
(37:01):
I had a parents say in front of his kids,
she's so picky, she won't need anything, um, And I
was like, no, she's not p I c k y.
She is selective and she you know, because that the
developmental milestone is that that toddlers become neophobic, which is
they have a distrust of the new. So coming back
(37:24):
to why it's so important to give your child variety
in the beginning, is that you want them to be
exposed to a variety of cuisines, spices, herbs, food textures,
everything so that it becomes familiar. So when they go
into this neophobic stage, distrust of the new. These foods
aren't new, they're familiar. So when you know, when parents
(37:45):
say to me, I'm about to get some curry up
in this house right now, because I feel like he
hasn't had You were saying it, and I was like,
oh God, they used to eat so much that when
I was pregnant, but I really haven't given him any
what the hell? So yeah, when parents well in food
and Adam doesn't, so it's like, oh, we never posemate that.
But like, guess what today is a new day? Oh
(38:12):
this was a question I was dying to ask. Okay,
So I love this compartment plate idea. Here's what my
son does. He doesn't like it, flings it on the floor.
Guess what happens. The dog eats it, The dog gets diarrhea.
It's a whole. My kid is a big flinger of food.
He's a big arm thrower. He loves to throw stuff, balls, dolls, toys, food.
(38:36):
I'll put the food down. If he's into it, he
will eat it. If he's not into it, he's flinging
it on the floor. So our problem with the compartment
plate is that it's just ends up being a lot
of shipped to clean up and you know kids like
he eats. Oh that's another question I wanted to ask
you is how many meals a day are you doing? One?
But also what do you think about my husband, which
(38:58):
is he literally puts one thing on his blade? Is
that just like insane? What complex and future problem? So
coming back to those plates that I was talking about,
he may be too young for that. You may. I
mean at this point even just putting a few things
out on that tray is perfect. Okay, great, I mean
I'm just talking about as a parent, like forcing yourself
(39:21):
to keep the variety there and you know the color
of the three or four things down so that he
only flings three or four so quick. So if does
this happen at every meal? Okay? So when are you
feeding him? Are you feeding him at the same time
every day you're feeding him? Because if he's ravenous, does
(39:42):
he still do that? No? So basically what will happen
is breakfast always a dream? So great, not that much
food flinging At the end. There might be food flinging,
which is like when he's done, which is really not
probably great that I know he's done when he's food
flinging um. Breakfast will always go off a lot of times.
(40:03):
I give him most days three meals and two snacks,
because what I'll do is like he'll have breakfast and
then he'll go down for a nap. When he wakes
up from a nap, he'll have a little snack of
like some grapes or half of clementine or you know,
some of that that he'll always cruit, crush, crush anything fruit.
He's never gonna flame that on the floor. Lunch, he
(40:24):
might fling some of that snack after his second nap,
he probably won't. And then later as we go in
the day, it's dinner. It's it's usually the witching hour,
five thirty ish five o'clock dinner. That like some of
that that's being flung. He's tired, he's piste. It's witching hour.
And so it's a lot of things I think is
(40:45):
temperament or whatever. But what time does he go down
for the night? Seven? So that's good. I mean that
you could have you have you tried bringing the meal
earlier in the day. I know I should do that well,
because the other thing is that's knack and and really
what I could do isn't. So if he wakes up
from a second up at four o'clock, give him a
(41:06):
bigger snap, then it's like a dinner, you know, with
a proteinser like that. And then the five thirty is
more like a dessert, not dessert, but in my mind
it's like a smaller snack of like, well, it's so
interesting because a lot of parents will give their their
babies dinner right before bedtime, you know, like five thirty six,
and then they do the bedtime return and put their
(41:27):
bed kid. And I'm like, I don't really want to
eat dinner and then immediately go to bed like you
should be should be kind of like a few hours before. No,
you know, so maybe bringing up earlier. I'm going to
try that, dude, I'm going to try that, try it
and say because I think I mean, obviously, when he's
(41:47):
the most hungry is when he does well, um, well,
but see this is the other thing. It's like, wow,
food is so it's so wrapped up with you're a
good boy, you're a bad boy type of stuff. And
I think it's also like, for example, I'm going on, um,
I'm going to see my family over the holidays, um,
and I'm cool with him not eating everything on the plate.
(42:13):
I'm cool with when he's experimenting and flinging food across
the thing. I'm like, he's one. Whatever. Some of the
older school people in my family think that that is
a very bad way to mother, and so it's very interesting,
you know what I mean, Like they think that I
don't have control over my kid, or that's really bad manners,
or you know, that's waste. You know, that's wasting money,
(42:36):
that's wasting food. There are people starving in the world,
things like that. So I really have to like put
on my like mommy muscle t shirt and just like
to stick to my well, this is what we do,
do you know what I mean? Because I want him
to have like a really healthy relationship with food, and
I don't want him to ever think I'm forcing him
or oh that was something I want to talk about.
(42:56):
Two is I think it's also really hard with partners.
You know that, Like I could my husband would get
really stressed out when he would flings food on the
floor and like would try to put stuff in his mouth,
not forcefully at all, but like put stuff in his mouth.
And I had to really have like a sort of
you know, you pick your battles in a relationship. But
it was big for me and I had to really
(43:17):
sit down with my husband and say, I don't ever
want you to put food in his mouth if he's
making it very clear that he doesn't want it, I
don't want that. But I bet that that's really hard
for some people. I think I think it comes down
and it gets frustrating. I mean, I've gotten you know,
when you're down on the floor picking up your six
fucking meal of the day and you're exhausted, You're like,
(43:39):
you know, we're done. I also think people probably get
really stressed out that if you don't eat, then you're
going to be hungry and then you're not going to sleep. Yes, Um,
is that true because that's me talking. Yeah. Yeah, like
the smallest dinner ever, and like now he's going to
be up at four o'clock in the morning because his
stomach is gonna wake him up, like what I mean. So, So,
(44:02):
I actually had this conversation yesterday with a moment at
the market and she was saying, Oh, my kids so
picky at the moment, and I just keep giving him
the same thing that he wants, and then at least
till eat, and I know that he's not going to
wake up, And in my head, I'm thinking, you know,
how is that going to change the situation you're in.
I mean, you're reinforcing you know, this this difficult time
(44:24):
and picky eating. As I said, it's a developmental milestone.
But the duration and the strength of that pickiness is
really going to depend on how you react to it,
you know. So um, it can be pretty short lived,
um and pretty easy if you just take a backseat
(44:48):
kind of approach rather than labeling catering too, you know,
and becoming a short order cook, um calling them good
bad like you're a good eater or he was a
bad eater today, things like that. This then becomes identity shaping.
I already feel in myself and admitting my own problems.
My son is small on the charts, you know, like
(45:10):
you know, third percentile and height and sent tile and weight.
So I'm always like, oh, yeah, it's fine, give him
more of that crap, like fill them up, you know
what I mean. Like he's little, he's a little he's
a little guy. He's a little dude. So like, yeah,
more dairy more, you know what I mean, Like I
already feel that in my um my subconscious like I'm
(45:31):
doing that. It's wild. And then I have friends who
have really big babies who you know, they cut them on.
I mean, it's really. I mean food is like I'm saying,
it's really it's an interesting thing. So here's the thing
on that, Um, even as a baby, even right from
the start, babies can monitor their own sense of hunger
and fullness. Like I was saying, Um, if a baby
doesn't open their mouth to receive a spoon of food
(45:54):
from you, your baby is saying no yah. Um. So
you know, don't shove that spoon in your baby's mouth,
you know, because like I said, like this is about
creating a healthy relationship with food. Nobody enjoys being force
fed not you know, So can we talk about the
(46:14):
idea of food as rewards. This was big on my
husband and I growing up and I and we fight
it to this day. And I know this is a
real thing because my husband and I similarly like you
got an a, get in the car, we're going for
ice cream. You know what, you didn't get into that school.
The whole family is going out for like you know,
(46:35):
t G I Friday's mozorel sticks of your favorite food.
I mean this is literally like memories we have and
when you're an actor, every day is like you booked it. Yeah,
thirty seven drinks. Let's have like ice cream and go
out to a movie and bull and then it's like, crap,
you didn't get it. You didn't get the part. Well,
let's just like drink and eat some garbage like whatever.
(46:58):
My husband and I are very reward based. We were
raised that way and we are like always having conversations
that we don't want that. For Albie, I am people
must tempt with food, Like if you go peepy on
the party, you're going to get an emine. So like
that one's a really good one for me to just
come out and say, like, please don't do that. Don't
(47:22):
use food as a reward. I'm trying to remember. I
think it's um Cynthia Epps another great resource, and I'll
send you her website and I think it's her. Forgive
me if it's not. She's awesome anyway. But um, what
I read about is how you know when you put
snacks out one day, you'll put out you know, crew
(47:44):
to tey, like you know, chopped up carrots and cumbers
and such. The next day a bowl of cookies, chop
chip cookies the next day fruit make it so that
it's not hands off, you know, to make something hands
off or only special occasion. Food makes it special, makes
(48:06):
it unattainable, like make puts this like gold light around it.
Whereas if it's accessible and it's just something else that
you can have on occasion, you're creating a much more
even playing field when it comes with your your child's
relationship with different kinds of food. So coming back to
what is the job of a parent. The job of
(48:28):
a parent is not to feed your child. It is
not to make your child eat. Sorry, I'm gonna say
that again. The job of a parent is not to
make your child eat. The job your job as a
parent is to offer healthy options. So you're deciding the
when and the where. Your child is deciding the weather
and how much. That's the differentiation of losing control. So
(48:54):
I know, my job is just to make sure that
my child has the options, and I'm going to asked
my child to decide whether they eat and how much
of it um and so with rewards food, you know,
if like we where I'm very health conscious and I
love healthy food. I love it. It's not just I
(49:14):
don't just do it because for a functional reasons. I
really love healthy food. Um. So, mostly my child like
her sweets, things like dried fruit, um, you know, things
like that. Um. But when we're out in the world
and occasionally at home, when there's food that other children
(49:36):
are eating that is like chocolate, cake, ice cream, stuff
like that, I always say yes because I don't want
her to feel like other people can have something that's
off limits to her. So yeah, I inside, I'm like,
you know, I prefer she a family that was like vegan,
(49:58):
the kids were vegan and no sugar in the household,
things like that. And when the birthday started, the birthday
party started rolling out, I mean, holy sh it, I
didn't know what to do. I mean, like the kids
are like screaming for hot dogs and like and the
birthday cake and they're showing up at home like smeared
with icing all over their face. And it's my fault.
(50:19):
But it's like, what was I going to do? I mean,
it's really hard, but the kids were never given it,
and it's they became obsessed and you have to see
it from their perspective, like what emotionally is going on
with their minds when they see other children having fun,
eating and enjoying something and they themselves are not allowed it.
(50:40):
It's it's even though we we think in our minds
were doing it for the right reasons, it's healthy, where
we don't want them to have cavities or whatever it is,
They're not reading it that way. They're saying, why this
is unfair, like why can't I? And then later in
life it's the switch flip, you know, They're like, suddenly
(51:01):
I can have all these food I'm out in the world,
and then they don't have these skills to monitor, you know,
the amount they eat and they's off limit food. You know. Um,
do you ever find like, since I'm about to be
with all family and things like that, how you talk
about your family's food choices with others, Like like, I
(51:22):
think it's going to be really interesting, like how you
stay strong in your goals and your relationship with food
with your kids, or like you said, you're out at
a birthday party and other people have other things that
feel other ways than you do. That's an interesting one.
I mean, we're we're about to go and baby family
as well. Um, I think you know, for me personally,
(51:46):
that shift of sort of speaking up for myself, um,
for my daughter really became very strong when I gave
birth to her. Because your preferences are your preferences, and ultimately,
who gives a ship it if other people agree or disagree,
what's most important is that you're doing what's right by
you and your child. Um. So you know, I really try.
(52:11):
I mean my family is pretty health conscious and pretty
cool that way. So I mean they, no, that's very sweet,
keep the compliments coming. Um No. But I mean my
nephews eat way more, um, processed food than my daughter does.
My sisters like really hands off, like whatever goes, Um,
(52:33):
we're going away, and I just I'm going to take
deep breaths and let her in those moments have a
really great time because ultimately, I feel like, you know,
if food brings if food is so much more than
just like for nutrition, it like brings people together, it's joy,
it's memories. Um, And so I feel like that freaking
(52:54):
every single photo we took over Thanksgiving with my son,
he's holding what's called a grandma cookie, which is in
my husband's side of the family. It's a recipe that's
been handed down by four grandma's. It's her great great
great grandma Lena's cookie recipe. It's a short bread cookie
and it means so much to his grandma's that he
loves the cookie. And it's like he had to not
(53:16):
cry in all these photos. And so I gat giving
him grandma cookies and they loved that he was eating
the grandma cookies in the photos. And I was like, wow,
I think you've had five cookies today and now you're
not going to eat anything of value. But whatever, it
brought joy to everyone, including him, So it's like, what
are you gonna do? At least it was homemade with
like whole ingredients. And that's what I knew when I
(53:39):
actually studied nutrition in Australia, and I remember one of
my teachers talking about and she was like vegan, super clean,
all of that stuff. And I remember her saying that
on her birthday, her kids, her two kids, who had
saved up their pocket money, had gone to buy her
a box of um Burger rings. Do you have them here?
(54:00):
They know what they're rings? No? No, they're they're I
think they're Australian. They're kind of like Cheetos, but that
you can fit them on your finger and eat them.
Do you have that? Okay? Burger rings anyway? Um? So
she said it was her birthday. Her kids ran into
her room with this wrapped up gift, glowing like so excited.
(54:21):
They've been saving up for this present on her birthday.
So she opens it up and there is this big
box of burger rings, which not in her life, which
she usually eat. You ever, and she said, she looked
at the box of burger rings, and she looked at
her children's face, and she said, this is soul food.
I'm going to sit here, I'm going to open it.
I'm going to enjoy it for breakfast with my children,
(54:43):
and it's going to fill my soul and it's going
to make them feel happy, and it's going to make
me feel happy. And I think, ultimately, if we remember
that food plays such an important part in our social
lives and in our family lives, that you know, and
it is so much more than just having a function. Um.
I think if we can keep that in at the
forefront of our minds, I love that. UM. What is
(55:07):
your advice for parents who are starting on their food
journey with their child? If you had to say anything,
I guess to you're younger, you're you're transitioning into solid
food mom self, I would say, um that the most
important thing to remember is that between the ages of
(55:29):
six months and twelve months of age, there is a
time called the flavor window, and that is that a
baby is more open than at any other stage in
their life of trying new things. So taste textures, spices, herbs, sweets, um, sour.
So have fun, you know, use this time, within reason,
(55:51):
of course, to expose your child two foods that you
yourself wouldn't necessarily cook in your home. Um, so that
you are really opening and beginning your child's journey culinary
journey through life. You know, I think about it like that. Yeah,
so have fun. It's if you feel good about it,
(56:12):
they're going to feel good about it. Um. Yeah, herbs
and spices and spices. I love that you are. This
is so informative. I learned so much, so did Roger.
You can hear embarking. Roger says, I love Albie's food
just as much as Albie does when he flings it
on the floor. Tolly, thank you so much. We're going
(56:34):
to put links to the books you said um and
links to Tummy Time. You guys, this is so helpful
and eye opening and I wish I had spoken to
you a year ago, but hey, better late than never.
Thank you, Thank you, Katie's Crib. Thank you guys so
much for listening to Katie's Crib. And be sure to
check out Shonda land dot com where you can find
(56:55):
every episode of Katie's Crib. And we've got crib notes
for each episode where you can find out more about
our guests and links to some of the resources we
talked about on the podcast. And last, but not least, subscribe.
We're on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher basically like wherever you
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