December 5, 2023 • 46 mins
Last December, YSL defendant Sergio Kitchens, the rapper Gunna, took an Alford plea and walked out of Fulton County Jail with probation. Christina Lee investigates Gunna’s life after court, the impact on his reputation and music, and the evolving legacy of Atlanta as hip-hop’s capital.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
King Slime is a production of iHeart Podcasts and Heirloom Media.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
It's a very quote account of now sessions. But it's Tuesday,
November seven, election day. But instead of getting up early
to vote for local school board candidates, our team has
gotten all gussied up for court.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Good morning, count.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
You're on the record the matter of State and Roly
versus Lee ads at All and plains UITs.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Things look a little different from when the YSL trial
started ten months ago. For one thing, even though the
trial is still called Georgia versus Khalif Adams. Khalif Adams,
who was listed first alphabetically, is no longer a co defendant.
His case was severed from the Rico trial after prosecutors
fouled a motion claiming his lawyer could no longer represent
(00:56):
him because of her impending parental leave. In other words,
they found out she was pregnant. Same thing happened with
Timquarius Mender.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Otherwise, el Co defendants have pleaded guilty in exchange for
reduced sentences, and still others were severed because of alleged
misconduct in jail and in one case, untreated mental illness.
Of the twenty eight defendants were once crammed into the
wood paneled walls of this courtroom with their legal teams,
(01:25):
just six.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Remained Shannon's Stillwelliams, Jeffrey Williams aka Young Thug, Diamante Kendrick
aka Yacht Gotti.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Marquavius Hughey, Larvius Nichols, and Rodalius Little Rod Ryan. The
proceedings have roe non stop since January, but it's been
a minute since we've been in the courtroom. He was
a while back when we were kicked out.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Despite having a valid Rule twenty two, a document signed
by the judge that grants us permission to sit in
the courtroom and cover the trial, we have been barred
from entering.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
So we've sued to fight our way back in Okay.
In the matter of the quart Taker, I have scheduled
the me and not very much. Frances Quo Matine so On,
George Chid, Tommy Andres, Christina Lee and Sylvia an artist captains.
Speaker 5 (02:38):
Yes, I'm George Cheeny and I'm Christina Lee, and this
is King Slime.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
The prosecution of Young Thug and ya So Fulton County
(03:13):
Courthouse in downtown Atlanta feels like the center of the
Rico universe. Right now.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
It was a busy day at the Fulton County Courthouse
is dozens of activists faced a judge for the first time.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
The day before hearing across the building in Courtroom four
e sixty one defendants were formally charged with domestic terrorism
for their efforts to stop the construction of a ninety
million dollar police training facility in Atlanta that protesters call
cop City, kicking off the largest trial against environmental protesters
in American history.
Speaker 6 (03:43):
I believe in and I value election integrity.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
One week earlier that Jenna Ellis became the fourth defendant
to plead guilty in the Rico trial against former President
Donald Trump and eighteen others accused of interfering with the
twenty twenty presidential election.
Speaker 7 (03:58):
How was fleety guilty to one of aiding and abetting
false statements and writing?
Speaker 5 (04:02):
Who sentenced probation has to pay restitution and perform community.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Service and The RICO trial against Ray Shawn Bennett aka
the Rapper Wife, and Lucci, along with eleven other co defendants,
was supposed to start earlier this year, but has been delayed.
Bennet's attorney says after more than two years in custody,
they are still waiting for a potential trialtad.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Because of all of this. While we're sitting in the
courtroom on November seventh, and screams and commotions suddenly send
sheriffs running for the halls, and the prosecutor so whisked
away to a protective area. We aren't sure what to
expect this man places start, please be seid. I chase
(04:46):
the sheriff's deputies out of the courtroom and into the hall.
When the commotion begins, turns out two people are in
a fight on the elevator. I see one being pinned
to the ground and coughed for a scuffle apparently unrelated
to any of the these cases. But the wave of
panic that silences the courtroom is proof that this building
is a powder keg that could explode with the smallest spark.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Ultimately, our lawyer is able to successfully argue our readmittance
into court, and just in time too. After ten months,
a jury of twelve has been selected. It consists of
seven black women, two black men, two white women, and
one white man.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
I said to see when you all came in months
and months ago. Thank you for your patience and your
continued patients that you have otherwise given us an additional
three black women, one black man, and two white men
our alternates. The same week of our hearing, Judge Glanville
route that lyrics can be used in the trial and
the basis for prosecutor's argument should sound familiar. In emotion
(05:56):
filed the week before, the DA's office wrote, according to
the defense's argument, had the Turner diaries been read with
background music, it could not have been introduced against Timothy McVay.
Fannie Willis made that same case to us months prior.
Speaker 8 (06:12):
What I tell you is if you wrote a manifesto
and then did those acts.
Speaker 6 (06:16):
That's good evidence.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
There's no different because you put a beat behind it.
We mentioned at the top of the show that the
number of y CEL defendants have been whittled down to six.
As Christopher Sperry from the DA's office told us, this
woodling down has all been part of the prosecution's plan.
Speaker 9 (06:35):
When I'm looking also at deals, one of the things
is not necessarily always who pulled the trigger? What is
the culpability and the age of the defendants, and who
can I remove from this equation? And this does not happen.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
So are these the six defendants who cannot be removed
from the equation. It's sort of hard to.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Say, but in this episode we are going to focus
on one of the first and definitely most famous defendant
to cut a deal and plead guilty in exchange for
no jail time, Sergio Kitchens, also known as Gonna. In
(07:19):
December twenty twenty two, just hours after Gunna negotiated a
plea deal that led to his release from Fulton County Jail,
a video of exactly how that negotiation went down leaked
on social media.
Speaker 10 (07:31):
I would you affiliated with whyl around two thousand and sixteen?
Is that true as it pertains to use use your kiss?
Why cel is a music label and a game and
you have personal knowledge that members are associated with HYSL
have committee primes and partiments of the game.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Isue?
Speaker 1 (07:54):
That video quickly sparked fraud discussions over whether that Alfred
plea was an act of betrayal where Gunna snitched on
his biggest connections to the music industry.
Speaker 10 (08:03):
And do you acknowledge the following statement, I recognize the
steps and deep leary bread that my talent and music
and directly further why sell the game to the detriment
of my community.
Speaker 5 (08:15):
Why sell as a gang must get?
Speaker 8 (08:17):
Is that your statement or acknowledgment?
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Gunna's acceptance in hip hop was put to question by
some of his own industry peers, including Chicago rapper and
past collaborator Little Dirk.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
If you were right, you are right.
Speaker 6 (08:34):
I looked into the camera and I told you if
you were rit I fucking h I love it too.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
It what's life been like for the second most famous
rapper and the YSL crew since he walked out of
Race Street. In order to understand the answer to that question,
you got to start at the beginning. In August twenty eighteen,
(08:59):
an editor from pop magazine Double XL reaches out asking
if I will write a profile on Gonna. Music journalists
were curious to learn more about this rap newcomer who
many first heard on the song Floyd Mayweather from Young
Thug's twenty sixteen album. Jeffrey signed on that with.
Speaker 11 (09:16):
Bone bbs is hit on that Gnack.
Speaker 12 (09:23):
All of a sudden, Thugs sounded kind of weird, and
then I came to figure out that there was a
feature on it.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
It wasn't Thug, it was Gonna.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
That's Atlanta based music journalist Joshua Robinson. I met him
through our mutual friend Yo, co founder of documentary studio
Rap Portraits.
Speaker 8 (09:38):
I thought the name was kind of silly, and I
also feel like his rap style was thug light.
Speaker 6 (09:44):
I got the real Thug, and he.
Speaker 8 (09:47):
Wasn't as like a clectic as thug to me, Like
he wasn't doing the same kind of runs, and he
wasn't necessarily as experimental.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Journalists like Yo and Joshua would argue that the biggest
testament to Young Thug's growing influence on rap was Gunna himself.
Speaker 12 (10:04):
So a lot of the young young artists who had
like huge success, I would say in the late twenty tens,
like right on the cusp of twenty twenty, I would
argue that they are all like young Thugs kids from
like vocal inflections, like from even the howling and just
the crazy stuff that Young Thug would do with his voice,
Like you could see that kind of emulated everyone kind
(10:24):
of bit little pieces of it.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
The comparison makes sense. They're both by products of Atlanta
South Side, and they shared a mentor in Keith Troup,
who Gonna told me was an uncle like figure in
the community. Thug and Gunna met during the making of
a music video released in twenty sixteen for a song
that Young Thug made in Troops Honored. Looking at the
music video, now you think that Young Thug and Gunna
(10:49):
were old friends, and the first scene featuring the two
of them, they look at each other knowingly before they
hit the dab, a popular Atlanta made dance move at
the time. A couple months after the King Trout video drops,
Young Thug would release Jeffrey, and that fall of twenty sixteen,
Gunna releases his first mixtape as a YSL Records artist,
(11:10):
called Drip Season. There's maybe a handful of times on
that project where Gunna speaks to life on the streets.
The most overt reference is in the intro song out
of Sight, out of Mind.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
It's the biggest.
Speaker 11 (11:24):
I ever saw it A kiss.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
A verse like that sticks out today because some of
Gunna's peers accuse him of turning into a snitch during
the YSL trial.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
With Gunna, I don't know too much of his personal
background story.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Albany Beza is a hairstylist in Columbia, Missouri, But to
me it.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
Seemed like his early music he was kind of telling
the story of like where he's came from and how
a lot of that still kind.
Speaker 6 (11:49):
Of shows up.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
And even though he's trained, like now he's his famous,
people know on he has money, like a lot of
his life circumstances have changed, but I think that he
still kind of was like partaking in things that he
was doing before he had the fame and the money
and all of that, and like how it I don't know,
I don't know if he ever really transitioned out of it.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
If there's a song off Drip Season that epitomizes how
Gunn's music would go mainstream, it's caught Me a Foreign
once again. He features Young Thug, which is a flex
and a music genre where high profile features are major currency.
(12:32):
But he also speaks directly to his biggest interest as
a rap artist, which isn't necessarily the hardship and hustle
that drives a lot of hip hop songs, but the
rewards of such hard work.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
So I can sold out dates and ready, Like he's
talking about a lot about like the fame that he's had.
But those two first came to my mind of like
some of his older music where he was just talking
about like the new lifestyle change so that he has
just like the fame and the money and all the
grab that he came into now that he's an artist.
Speaker 6 (13:07):
Gun is cool. I'll give it that.
Speaker 8 (13:09):
Like as far as doubling down on a lifestyle wrap
that I think is accessible, he made the style way
more accessible to ears that thought Thug was a little
bit more of a train rap. Gunn is kind of
like a Mayback. He want to be like a foreign
car for real. He want to have like the foreign drip.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
There's no good way for me to explain what drip
means in this hip hop context without sounding like I'm
approaching my forties, So I'm going to quote Gunna. He
defined drip to Billboard Magazine as essentially the designer clothes
he wears. How he quote might wear a ten thousand
dollars outfit on a weekend. At the time, Gunna was
helping repopularize drip as hip hop slang. If Young Thug
(13:51):
concerned himself most with testing the limits of his elastic
rap voice and being the driving artistic force behind Young
Stoner Life records.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
With Young Thug, I hear him a lot of the features,
and I just can't understand him, Like I feel like
it doesn't articulate and there's no like charisma to his voice.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Then Gonna seem to thrive most off being a trendsetter,
showing how the label could become a mainstream phenomenon.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
Kenna's voice is just like I don't know, it's just
attractive to me, Like when he's rapping, it doesn't even
matter what he's like saying. It's like I get in
tune to his music because of his voice in the
way that he can kind of go back and forth
between R and B and hip hop.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
At the top of twenty twenty two, Gunnahead yet another
hit on his hands, push and pe to rock along
with the song is to pretend that you're in the
know with Gunna Future and Young Thug on what that means,
which is what brands like I hopped it when they
sent out branded tweets like we're always pushing pancakes. It
was news to some myself included that the pee stood
(14:53):
for positivity, as Young Thug's lawyer Brian Steele argued during
opening statements in November twenty tw and.
Speaker 6 (15:01):
What you'll learn is that.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
You have to just released with Sergio Kitchen's formula is
Gonna the song that is wildly popular.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
It's around the globe.
Speaker 5 (15:12):
It's called pushing P and it's positivity.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
It means any circumstance you're in, if you think positively
about something, you can make it through. You're pushing positivity,
pushing P.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
The Washington Post described this desperation to be as hip
is Gunna. Like this quote, you could feel the song
becoming uncool on your skin. Jordan Rose, a journalist for
Complex Media, attributes all this to how mainstream Atlanta rap,
with Gonna being a major poster child, had become.
Speaker 7 (15:46):
The Atlanta rap scene is the most dominant rap scene
in the space right now. So I think the Gunna
fan is similar to an offsets fan is similar to
you know, obviously a thug, a young thug fan, a
future fan. I think kind of interacting in this first
Atlanta space of that kind of trap sound that they
all operating. So people who are trap leading I think
(16:09):
lean towards being fans of Gonna. Also, I think Gunna
has really overtaken the youth. So I think, you know,
fans of Kai Sanat and fans of twitch streaming and
fans of you know, that space and the culture as well,
often are also Gunna fans, Like I think push Your
(16:29):
Piece is a perfect example, Like the phrase became even
larger than the song push your p on the album,
you know what I mean. You could probably not even
know that that's a song if you just were on the
Twitch space or the social media space, And I think
that's like a great example of how the influence has
spread beyond even the music.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Nearly one year after the song took off, when news
of Gunna's Alpha Plea began circulating, its title became a
running joke that fool.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Is pushing please.
Speaker 8 (17:04):
If you're on Twitter, you kind of notice the first
shifts of free the Freak kinda that first initial run
of Hey, I want to see the whole collective free.
Speaker 6 (17:18):
It was like the last camaraderie I've seen on Twitter.
Speaker 8 (17:22):
Or we all felt like why Cell was like our
family and we all want to why Cell out as
a collective. I gonna get us out with that video
pretty much saying you know, why is a gang and
how it needs to be disbanded. Oh that was rough.
That was a rough day on Twitter. That was a
rough day. What are people saying?
Speaker 6 (17:40):
The The yes, ma'am was yes ma'am. The thing like,
oh my god, it looked like betrayal.
Speaker 8 (17:48):
It looked like Julius Caesar getting stabbed by Brutus.
Speaker 6 (17:53):
It did feel like the Eyes of March, like our
version the Eyes March.
Speaker 8 (18:00):
Shakespeare could not have written a more tragic story than
Gunn's video.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Gunn's lawyer, Steve Sadau, tried his best to anticipate all
this when he sent journalists a statement announcing the Alpha plea.
He's stressed that nothing Gunna said during negotiations could be
used against anyone else in court, but this was no match.
Speaker 6 (18:19):
For public opinion.
Speaker 8 (18:20):
You'll need to go to law school to tweet about
people in jail. You can just tweet I'm sorry, but
that's Twitter. You don't know sometimes like who actually knows
what they're talking about versus someone who is just talking.
And sometimes a person just talking got more followers, got
a loud of voice, got a better way of tweeting,
Like there's a savvy to how you can pay something
to get on Twitter for it to go viral. And
(18:42):
I feel like the viral tweets about Gunna all had
rats and a lot of rad emojis.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
It's September ninth, twenty twenty three, Jordan Rose is heading
to Barclays Center in Brooklyn, New York. He's got a
ticket to Gunna's first headlining concert in two years, but
he tells himself to manage his expectations for the show
that night. Jordan is curious to see how Gunna will perform.
He's even more interested in how the crowd at Barclays
will receive him.
Speaker 7 (19:15):
I tried to come in with as low as exportations
as possible, just because I didn't know what the performance
would be like in a general sense, and then you
obviously add on all of these different, you know, new
obstacles that he would be facing. I thought it was
interesting that he chose his first show to come back
to be in New York.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
As a staff writer a complex Jordan has a broad
sense of how the Ysel trial has played out.
Speaker 7 (19:38):
Trying to stay as informed as possible in terms of
everything that's happening.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
He was paying attention when Gunna was charged with conspiring
to violate Rico in part of the initial fifty six
count Ysel indictment, and he saw him walk out of
Rice Street, not to news cameras in a press conference
as Gucci Mane did when he himself was released from
the same Fulton County jail back in two thousand and nine.
Speaker 7 (19:59):
I can't wait to show we're a black field and
now then I'll free.
Speaker 9 (20:02):
I run if you have almost wanted man.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
In joy not to a private jet like the one
that New York rapper Bobby Schmurder wrote in with another
Atlanta artist, Quevo to celebrate his release, but to accusations
that he portrayed a street code of conduct. Tweets with
rat emoji circulated, and then there were the social media stunts.
In one video, you see a bystander tossing wrapped slices
(20:26):
of cheese at a black and white Mercedes made back gls,
leaving cheese for the rat. The video claims that this
was the same SUV that drove Gunna away from Fulton
County Jail in December twenty twenty two. In another video,
a clubgoer shows a nightclub that's playing when a Gunna
is nature versus.
Speaker 11 (20:44):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
The man shooting the video loudly claims the club came
to a standstill once Gunna's voice began blaring.
Speaker 6 (20:51):
Through the speakers.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Then there were the critics on podcasts and radio shows.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
You're not meaning guilty to a rico right, You're not
bringing your in then freeing you.
Speaker 6 (21:04):
That's a fact problem.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
So this also wasn't the first time that hip hop
accused one of its biggest players of being a snitch,
not even over the past few years. In twenty eighteen,
rapper Takashi six ' nine was arrested on racketeering, weapons
and drug charges. Prosecutors accused him of being affiliated with
nine Tray Gangs of Bloods. He could have been sent
to prison for life. Instead, he struck a deal with
(21:30):
prosecutors to become their star witness. I remember choking with
friends that he should have been called Ta Kashi snitch nine.
What he had done. Just felt that blatant on's gonna
took the alpha plea though six ' nine visited hip
hop commentator DJ Academics and seemed more than eager to
deflect those accusations of being a snitch on someone else.
Speaker 7 (21:51):
Nowhere know how in the transcript the Sonava foot typing
it up, did they say yes and we are a gang?
Speaker 2 (21:59):
They did?
Speaker 12 (22:00):
They denied that, denied, deny, deny, deny, deny, deny.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
So Sergio Fatass Kitchens winning that plue room and admit
it good ask.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
But Joshua Robinson, the journalist from Atlanta, remembers how that
charge was led by people who were actually close to
Young Thug.
Speaker 12 (22:16):
You have YSL affiliates like Lil got It, who's not
even really a part of YSL, but he's like kind
of leading the charge that Gunna is in fact a snitch.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Low got It is an artist signed to Alamo Records,
a sony music in print, but he at one point
lived off Cleveland Avenue, and in the beginning of his
career he benefited from co signs by Young Thug and
Yes Gunna. When Gunna left Fulton County Jail, Low got
It charged him on Instagram with betraying quote unquote family.
Speaker 12 (22:47):
So when Gunna gets out, there's like either no like
fanfare or like sly remarks here and there on his story.
I think Lil got It was really big on his
story at the time, if I'm room correctly, because I
was reporting on this, I had new hip hop like
every day. I think that he was like doing little
shady stuff and then when Umfun got out, is all
buddy buddy with Unfunk and I think they're stolen shots
and Gunna through Instagram as well.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
On Funk is Young Thug's older brother, Quantavias career. He's
another defendant in the y cell trial who took an
Alpha kleet just days after Gunna did the same.
Speaker 12 (23:18):
It's very, very much so just this petty, petty like
you would snitch you or rat type stuff.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
What didn't help matters was the apparent disconnect between Young
Thug and Gunn at themselves.
Speaker 8 (23:29):
Here's Yo at the time. Thug was still using Twitter
right before kind of got out. I don't know if
people remember, but Thug was kind of active on Twitter
and not actively saying anything about the case or anything.
Speaker 6 (23:41):
But she just kind of like tweets here and there.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
I have to mention the most bizarre example. One year
after he was arrested in Buckhead, Young Thug tweeted at
Olympic swimmer Michael Phelps asking whether he could quote swim
one hundred miles from the middle of the ocean back
to shore, back to what Yo was saying.
Speaker 6 (24:00):
He was casually.
Speaker 8 (24:00):
Tweeting, and when Gunn got out, his tweets stopped a
cancel hall like Thug never ever kind of came out
and said anything about Gunn's situation.
Speaker 6 (24:11):
If he approved it disapproved.
Speaker 8 (24:13):
So Thug's quietness just made the issue louder.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
For two consecutive weeks. In June twenty twenty three, the
two biggest artists of Young Stoner Life Records released their
first new album since being arrested. Gunnas was called a
Gift in a Curse. The album featured a lead single
where he accused Da Fani Willis of doing some quote
unquote sneaky shit. Then Young Thug released Business as Business.
(24:38):
The cover art features him sitting in a courtroom, turning
around to face the camera. Young Thug Gunna's biggest champion
leading up to the Ysel indictment. His mentor, who had
been featured on almost every Gunna album since the two
met in twenty sixteen, doesn't appear at all on Gunna's
homecoming album, and while Young Thug managed to wrangle high
(25:00):
profile features like Drake Future, Travis Scott, and Nicki Minaj,
Gunna was nowhere to be found on Businesses Business.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
The day that Gunna drop it could have been way cooler.
Speaker 12 (25:11):
He could have had business business, and then he could
have dropped a deluxe version of Gunner's album with Thug
on it, and that would have been a completely different
that would have changed everything if that was the case.
But he goes and drops his project with no Gunner
feature on it and a whole bunch of hot, big
industry people.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
The staff track list seemed to signify the industry support
behind Young Thug. As for a Gift and a Curse,
Gunna sounds isolated from raps inder Circle, a star contrast
compared to how his last album DS Forever was his
most star study yet.
Speaker 8 (25:45):
J Cole started to kind of become a meme for
having no features on his album, right, but that was
an anomaly, you know, like, oh J Cole and double
platinum with no features. But he's the only artist really
doing no features. Most big artists. Part of it is
having associations. Part of the reason why people gonna stream
certain albums is I want to hear this rapper.
Speaker 6 (26:08):
Paired with this rapper.
Speaker 8 (26:09):
It's a big party, Like it's kind of like a
wrestling match. You don't fight yourself, you and there's the
versus Goldberg. People are tuning in for the spectacle, and
I feel like features gave rap a spectacle that you
don't see in other genres. Other rock bands don't really
cross collaborate like that. But a hip hop you can
take a future and you pair them with a Drake
and you can have a diamond record because you put
(26:30):
these two rappers together on a record that just sounds amazing.
Like you got so used to seeing Gonna in collaboration,
did a whole table little Baby. He's not an artistist
that seems selfish about I only make music for me
by me. It always felt like he was a part
of a larger conglomerate of collaborators, and this was the
first time where there's no collaboration.
Speaker 6 (26:51):
So it was a big It was a bit of
a shock, and you couldn't.
Speaker 8 (26:54):
Read it at first as if did you make this
album by yourself because you wanted to or because no
picked up the phone?
Speaker 6 (27:01):
You know, you couldn't tell A.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Gift in Accurse only features one of Gunna's go to producers, Turbo.
He's been loyal to Gunna at the very least since
I interviewed both of them for Double XL back in
twenty eighteen. But it was still striking to hear how
even producers appear to have distanced themselves from perhaps the
biggest name on their resumes. Six months prior to those
(27:24):
release weeks, a Rolling Stone headline read a court screwed Gunna.
Now he's being shunned by his peers. Upon first impression,
A Gift and a Curse seemed to confirm this, but
when the album comes out, it debuts as the third
best selling in the country, higher than Midnights by Taylor
Swift that week. Gunna's album has since spent twice as
(27:45):
many weeks on the Billboard Album Chart as Young Thugs,
and although Young Thugs album originally unseated Gunnas from the
top spot on the R and B and Hip Hop
album's chart, Business is Business charted for only six weeks,
A Gift and a Curse hearted for twenty.
Speaker 8 (28:01):
The music was so strong by itself, It's like, you know,
it didn't feel like gonna need y'all.
Speaker 6 (28:08):
Y'all might need Gunning.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Arriving at the show at Barclay Center in Brooklyn that
Saturday night, Jordan Rose notices something.
Speaker 6 (28:23):
Immediately.
Speaker 7 (28:25):
I drove that to five parking I found parking way
down the street because it was this is when I
first realized, oh, like it is Gonna be crazy because
I'm driving up and I'm hearing Gonna being played in
the streets of Brooklyn at a five parking a few
streets down from Barkleys, and when I'm walking, I see
it's like a ridiculous line. Just to just to get
(28:46):
into the building to check it.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Jordan gets in, takes a seat, and watches the nineteen
thousand others Phillip quickly the show is sold out. He
begins talking to people sitting around him.
Speaker 6 (28:59):
The first guy says, I'm from Baltimore.
Speaker 7 (29:02):
He was like, this is my first time at Barkley
Soon and I was like, wow, that's crazy.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
What he quickly realizes is that these aren't all NYC fans.
Speaker 7 (29:09):
I came up to someone else and they were from Virginia.
That theme persistent throughout the night.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Gonna had only two shows scheduled in the US, one
in Los Angeles and one in.
Speaker 7 (29:19):
New York, so I feel like a lot of people
on the East Coast weren't going to make it to
the LA show. So it was like you had to
really get here because it was the only chance to
see him, especially because it was the first time back.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
How was Gonna been able to outsell Young Thug this year.
You could chalk up that initial chart performance to overall curiosity,
if not anticipation of what he'd have to say after
being jailed. Since May twenty twenty two, press play and
the music feels weighed down by this palpable sense of
obligation to acknowledge that at the very least, this is
(29:59):
a challenge time for Hysel. The album's lead single is
Bread and Butter, which calls out the DA's office and
openly acknowledges the scorn he's received since leaving Fulton County Jail.
Speaker 11 (30:10):
Never again, no ugly you know what I'm saying or
whatever you niggas on the trust me how much the
DA did some niggas shit?
Speaker 12 (30:18):
I fail for it.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Here's yo.
Speaker 8 (30:20):
I wouldn't even say you played it safe, you played
it smart. Mmm, he didn't. He didn't feed into it
too much. I feel like there's things that he referenced
on the album, like I think bread and Butter mm
hmm yep. He kind of like alludes to some people
like like changing sides and not necessarily like being on
his side. But he doesn't really call nobody out by name.
(30:43):
He doesn't pick fights. You know, he sort of just
expresses how it feels from his end. I think Gonna
sounds disappointed largely at people thinking that he would do
something to thug, to betray Thug, or betray the.
Speaker 6 (30:57):
People he came up with.
Speaker 8 (30:59):
And I think he also expresses how hard it was
to kind of just be sitting down for so long.
He's lost a year of his life. That's a hard
thing to do for anybody for any reason.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
But Bread and Butter isn't the reason why Gunna has
been dominating the Billboard charts in the year of Hip
hop fiftieth anniversary. It's only a part of Gunna's continued
success in a year where raps share in total music
revenue has been dwindling. The real reason is a single
that came after Bread and Butter, a lifestyle anthem called
fuck you Mean. Here's Joshua Robinson.
Speaker 12 (31:32):
I was talking about little Bro. I was just talking
about who's like, you're younger than me. When it came
out that Gunna was released and he took the plea
deal man, he was he was heartbroken. He was like,
oh man, he's a rat, he a snitched all that.
When I tell you he bumps. He bumps this way
more than I do. And I was just talking to
him yesterday, but I was like, why do you listen
to it? And he was like he slid and it's
(31:52):
like it's just that simple to him. And he was
saying that you can't ignore the talent. And I was like,
but isn't he a rat? He's like, oh, yeah, he's
definitely a rat. He's definitely a rat. But like for him,
I think he said that more it's not a it's
not a moral issue for him to listen to the music,
so he doesn't feel like he's betraying those like snitching
like standards by listening to the music. It'd be different
(32:13):
if he was, like I guess rocking with him personally.
But yeah, it's complex. I guess people are just deciding
to ignore it a little bit for their musical enjoyment.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
I guess. Hmm.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Okay, okay, And you said he was three years younger
than you, so how old are you?
Speaker 12 (32:28):
So I was twenty five, he's twenty two, Okay, yeah,
ok he's outside for real, for real and way more
outside than me. And yeah, he I'm telling you, when
fuck you mean came out like?
Speaker 3 (32:39):
That?
Speaker 6 (32:39):
Was?
Speaker 12 (32:40):
That was shit, shit, Yeah, it's crazy, it's the whole mixtape.
He still listened to it to this stat too, because like,
how many months is it now?
Speaker 3 (32:48):
Has it been?
Speaker 12 (32:49):
It came out in the summer, Yeah, that's nothing holds
his attention now long?
Speaker 1 (32:54):
So fuck You Mean has been so so successful that
atopped the US Spotify charts and remained a mainstay on
the platform's major playlists even months later. It's also become
Gunna's first solo single to top several Billboard charts. No Features,
No Problem. Billboard reported that the song first took off
(33:16):
on streaming before radio inevitably caught on. It doesn't remark
on how unlikely the song's rise to platinum sales has
been to become rap song of the Summer, all just
a few months after this nitch and conversation bubbled up,
and many months before the y Cel trial will be over.
So maybe those stitching conversations were besides the point. And
(33:37):
at least this day and age, rap has long been
associated with gritty realism, but that's far from the appeal
of all rap artists. There's this question about whether even
street cred was even the larger point of guns appeal
that was something that I've always been thinking about. It
was like, did we look to Gunna for stuff like
this or you know, to like abide by this quote
unquote code right.
Speaker 12 (33:59):
Yeah, Gunner's music up in that point was like clothing drugs.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Like I think he was very vibe.
Speaker 12 (34:05):
You know, I don't think unless I'm just having like
a blank in my mind, I don't remember necessarily hearing
like overtly overly street things, and like Drake talks about
street things, so like if Drake can talk about it,
you know what I'm saying, Like it's like a bass
layer that some artists may do. But like, I don't
think anyone thought that Gunna was that guy in the streets.
Like ever, jay Z said it best when he was
(34:28):
Disagnis on Takeover, and he was like, you're rapping about
things that are happening around you that you're not actually doing.
And I think that's what a lot of rappers pool
from to relate to more people. Like I mean, Drake
on his new album has a song where he's like
you shot him in daylight, and like we know he's
not talking about himself, like Jake's not shooting anyone in daylight.
And I mean he may not even be talking about
(34:49):
an actual person, but it's like that connection there, but
it's like we don't take it seriously. And I feel
like it was the same way with Gunna. Like I
don't think anyone would have expected Gunna to be a
street guy.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
That is, says Jordan Rose, until Gunna's listening audience was
told to hold him up to that expectation.
Speaker 7 (35:06):
In terms of like his widening fan base, people only
cared about what they were suggested to care about, as
hip hop is going into the space and Gunnis fans
intersect with like twitch Jimmy fans intersect with.
Speaker 6 (35:20):
General cool kids slang fans.
Speaker 7 (35:24):
I think if you heard from one of your favorite
streamers that gun is a snitch, you're gonna think he's
a snitch, even if you don't fully understand what that
means or the street politics that are behind that label.
But then you have a whole other group of rap
fans who are like, yo, don't like this guy because
(35:47):
he's a rat and rats are bad, and they don't
really know the full context behind that, but they're told
by somebody that they like and follow believes that, so
they believe that as well.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
With hip hop still being a commercial force on TikTok,
especially Yo says Gunna's lifestyle wraps can serve ass aspirational
soundtrack for all walks of life.
Speaker 8 (36:09):
Twitter is a space where you want to be your
most authentic self. Like authenticity has value there, and also
there's credos and rules that people might want to like
establish that means you're authentic, right, or you're really about
(36:30):
what you say, you really stand on business in this
kind of way. On TikTok, Man, people want to make
Q videos and people want to laugh, People want to
like enjoy a sounder, right. They might not even associate
this clip with a Gonna or with the rapper, you know,
they might not associate this with a.
Speaker 6 (36:48):
Person's life and lifestyle. On Twitter.
Speaker 8 (36:51):
It's like if you post Gunna, you condone everything Gonna
has done. On TikTok, It's like you can associate with
a forty second clip and move on to the next thing.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
On TikTok, fuck You Mean has become the unofficial soundtrack
for white kids feeling themselves on camera and doing Romanian
deadlifts at the gym.
Speaker 6 (37:10):
I never thought Gunna was gym rat music.
Speaker 8 (37:13):
I never thought he was going to follows in the
gym you know, where the only drift is sweat, like
I never thought, I never thought that's why you played Gunna.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
But most notably, the song also sounds like the before times,
a time when whenever Gunna was doing was always trending,
more specifically, a time before the YSL trial.
Speaker 7 (37:34):
If you only lived on the Internet, the successful year
that Gunna has had would sound impossible. The rap fans
who endorse street codes that they've never had to live
by a crucified him for taking a plea deal, and
the rappers who may have made the same decision in
his position to turn their backs on him. Even though
it looks like the rapp world betrayed Gunna, his talent
and loyal fanbas proved that hip hop is so much
bigger than the narratives on Twitter.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
People lie, The Internet lies, but the music shirt doesn't.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
That's what Jordan Rose wrote to conclude his review of
Gunna's first concert in two years for Complex. He remembers
the moment those thoughts first came to mind.
Speaker 7 (38:07):
We ramp through all of his like you know, biggest
songs from all of his old albums. He had a
young thug segment where he did all his songs with Thug.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
At one point, the screens to gun his left and
right read free Jeffrey in all caps.
Speaker 7 (38:21):
But then it wasn't until he got into Gifted a Curse,
which I think you know is a much more emotional album.
He like really responds to what talks about, what his
experience has been like since he's been released, and all
like the emotional trials and Tripulationcy's been through. And it
was just seeing you know, the audience, especially like in
(38:42):
the GA section, like the standing ga in front of
the of the stage, knowing every single word, even to
the songs that on the new album that aren't popular.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
One song that has yet to be released as a single,
and who knows if it ever will be is the
album's last track. All Right. It's where Gunna tries his best.
I feel hope full about the future, though as he admits,
it feels challenging.
Speaker 11 (39:04):
Y'all talk to my dog, just tell them I miss won.
Nobody's pain came on my rhythm. She was just not
I didn't use a common sense pass away ananamous she
eat me up on Hell's see.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
This is about as confessional as Gunna has ever been
in his career. Jordan says that the crowd at Barclay
Center was ready to receive him at his most vulnerable.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
It was like a cathartic experience. It felt like a
cathartic performance for him.
Speaker 7 (39:30):
Then to see that that cathartic performance be matched by
a crowd rapping every word to this song about you
talking about people not messing with you anymore because they
think you're a rat, and people thinking you turned your
back on your best friend without knowing the full.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Context of the situation.
Speaker 7 (39:48):
To have fans who might have been included in that
group that he is rapping about earlier in the year
to still be so loyal to him, to like know
these words so well. You know, people realize that they
care about the music more than they do these street
politics that they don't actually live by, but they want
to kind of act like they do for the timeline.
(40:11):
That was really the moment that solidified for me that
the music can really overpower any of the narratives that
Twitter may have.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Since it's released from Fulton County Jail, Gunna has been
spotted in Beverly Hills more than Atlanta. From Damn near
the beginning of his music catalog. He's long fantasized about
hanging out on the West Coast. Here's another snippet from
Caught Me at Feign, his twenty sixteen track featuring Young Thug.
Speaker 3 (40:38):
Here's how to do mentioning than hims.
Speaker 7 (40:40):
I won not takeing a fuck I.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Feel years later in A Gift and a Curse. Beverly
Hills is where Gunna sounds the most free. My personal
favorite moment is that transition from fuck You Mean to
another song called Rodeo Drive. I've run both songs back
for those few seconds alone, especially while driving around in Atlanta,
(41:14):
and I imagine this would have been my favorite moment
to see live at Barclays. In the context of the album,
the beat switch feels like a flash forward to a
time when the YSL trial is some distant memory. When
Gunna performs this at Barclays, he wears a custom winged
and feather top with matching wooly trousers. As Fucking Me
winds down, though Gunna removes his top, revealing his bare
(41:38):
chest underneath. On cue with the beat switch, there are pyrotechnics,
the crowd mashes and sinc phones recording, and Gunna starts
skipping He's light on his feet. In his concert review,
(42:02):
Jordan Rose was impressed by Gunn's return to the stage,
most notably because of where it took place.
Speaker 7 (42:08):
To come out on the other side and have such
a successful show in New York, not even Atlanta. I
think that was also the biggest thing of like it,
not even being in his home state. It could have
very easily just been a dud. I think all just
plays into how Gunna's ability and his talent overshadows what
people think they should think about him.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
But we couldn't help but wonder whether a show like
this was possible in Atlanta. My journalist colleagues here say
it would have likely been too risky.
Speaker 8 (42:40):
They said, or DJ played a song in the club
that was a Gunner record and everyone stopped dancing.
Speaker 6 (42:46):
I don't know if that was true or not. You
know how you can make things look.
Speaker 8 (42:51):
But there was always this feeling that Atlanta had yet
to re embrace Kinna completely and again like, I don't know,
I feel like when I'm out, I haven't felt his
presence in the same way that I feel his presence
a lie, you know, through the influencers on TikTok or
his influence in like conversations like this where we're kind
of trying to understand where he stands now, and I
(43:13):
think that.
Speaker 6 (43:14):
That is still it's still weighs on what he's able
to do.
Speaker 8 (43:18):
It's not he's not out of the clear in that
sense yet, especially here. So I think that there's something
that Atlanta is still kind of processing.
Speaker 12 (43:26):
Even if he thinks it's cool, there's enough debate growing
around on if he's a snitch or not, Like no
rapper is safe. I don't think any artist should willingly
put himself in danger like that, because it doesn't even
have to be someone from YASL or someone who's affiliated
with why Cel. It could be someone who just feels
like they got something to prove or want to go
viral and now rip Gunna.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
You know.
Speaker 13 (43:49):
The other thing I think about too is you know,
he got probation, which sounds to people like nothing, but
probation is actually a big deal when you're especially when
your entire social network is indicted with Rico chargers. I mean,
you cannot associate with a convicted felon if you're on probation.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
For example, that's King Slime, producer Tommy andres like that's a.
Speaker 13 (44:09):
Big deal for some of these guys, right like you,
you almost have to get away in order to not
like run the risk of violating your probation in some way.
Speaker 12 (44:19):
And that may be why we haven't heard young Thugs
say anything about Gunna as well, because I know that,
like you said that in the in the plea, he's
not allowed to even contact Thug, So I don't know
what that looks like. But on the same hand, he's
saying he's having banners that say free Thug at hassowed
out concerts, So I don't it's weird.
Speaker 3 (44:35):
I don't know how they're allowed to tiptoe around these things.
Speaker 12 (44:38):
But speaking of probation, Umfunk got arrested again because he
violated his probation after taking that out for plea.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
So after Young Thug's older brother on Funk violated the
turns of his probation in summer twenty twenty three, he
was sentenced to nine and a half years in prison.
Speaker 3 (44:56):
So it's reird they will take you back.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
And with that sort of looming large, Joshua could see
why Gunna's first concert in two years wasn't a proper homecoming.
Speaker 12 (45:07):
I've been having a hard time saying that Atlanta's the
capital of hip hop still, like I think, undisputed, like
it probably since twenty fourteen, it was Atlanta, no doubt,
no one sustained it as long as Atlanta has and
even how it's become a hub for people to move
here to make it in music, like you got people
(45:29):
like Yet and Jack Carlow making it off of the.
Speaker 3 (45:31):
Connections that they made in Atlanta.
Speaker 12 (45:33):
What happens when all these major players are gone, and
what happens for the futures, just like you know what,
I'm gonna do a drake, I'm gonna bow out for
a little bit. I'm gonnasappear. IM gonna let y'all handle it.
I don't know if the infrastructure is strong enough here
for that to continue without the people like Thug and Gun.
Like I said, Gunna moves away and doesn't ever come
back to Atlanta. Maybe he stays on Rodeo's drive, you know,
(45:55):
maybe he's just constantly in La.
Speaker 3 (45:58):
I wonder what that looks like.
Speaker 12 (46:00):
I can see this being the shift to somewhere else,
and that may be a good thing for the genre.
Speaker 3 (46:04):
It may be time for like new sounds, new ideas.
Speaker 12 (46:08):
It could be a beautiful thing, but right now it's
kind of like bittersweet.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
King Slime is a production of iHeart Podcasts and Hairloom Media.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
It's written and produced by George Cheedy, Christina Lee, and Tommy.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
Andres, mixing sound design and original music by Evan Tire
and Taylor Chaicogne.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
The executive producer and editor is Tommy Andres.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
Our theme music is by Done Deal.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
Special thanks to Tyler Klay and.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
To the Atlanta News outlets, eleven Alive, WSBTV, Atlanta News First,
and Fox five.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
For more shows from iHeart Podcasts, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
King Slime is a production of iHeart Podcasts and Heirloom Media.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
It's a very quote account of now sessions. But it's Tuesday,
November seven, election day. But instead of getting up early
to vote for local school board candidates, our team has
gotten all gussied up for court.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Good morning, count.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
You're on the record the matter of State and Roly
versus Lee ads at All and plains UITs.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Things look a little different from when the YSL trial
started ten months ago. For one thing, even though the
trial is still called Georgia versus Khalif Adams. Khalif Adams,
who was listed first alphabetically, is no longer a co defendant.
His case was severed from the Rico trial after prosecutors
fouled a motion claiming his lawyer could no longer represent
(00:56):
him because of her impending parental leave. In other words,
they found out she was pregnant. Same thing happened with
Timquarius Mender.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Otherwise, el Co defendants have pleaded guilty in exchange for
reduced sentences, and still others were severed because of alleged
misconduct in jail and in one case, untreated mental illness.
Of the twenty eight defendants were once crammed into the
wood paneled walls of this courtroom with their legal teams,
(01:25):
just six.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Remained Shannon's Stillwelliams, Jeffrey Williams aka Young Thug, Diamante Kendrick
aka Yacht Gotti.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Marquavius Hughey, Larvius Nichols, and Rodalius Little Rod Ryan. The
proceedings have roe non stop since January, but it's been
a minute since we've been in the courtroom. He was
a while back when we were kicked out.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Despite having a valid Rule twenty two, a document signed
by the judge that grants us permission to sit in
the courtroom and cover the trial, we have been barred
from entering.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
So we've sued to fight our way back in Okay.
In the matter of the quart Taker, I have scheduled
the me and not very much. Frances Quo Matine so On,
George Chid, Tommy Andres, Christina Lee and Sylvia an artist captains.
Speaker 5 (02:38):
Yes, I'm George Cheeny and I'm Christina Lee, and this
is King Slime.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
The prosecution of Young Thug and ya So Fulton County
(03:13):
Courthouse in downtown Atlanta feels like the center of the
Rico universe. Right now.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
It was a busy day at the Fulton County Courthouse
is dozens of activists faced a judge for the first time.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
The day before hearing across the building in Courtroom four
e sixty one defendants were formally charged with domestic terrorism
for their efforts to stop the construction of a ninety
million dollar police training facility in Atlanta that protesters call
cop City, kicking off the largest trial against environmental protesters
in American history.
Speaker 6 (03:43):
I believe in and I value election integrity.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
One week earlier that Jenna Ellis became the fourth defendant
to plead guilty in the Rico trial against former President
Donald Trump and eighteen others accused of interfering with the
twenty twenty presidential election.
Speaker 7 (03:58):
How was fleety guilty to one of aiding and abetting
false statements and writing?
Speaker 5 (04:02):
Who sentenced probation has to pay restitution and perform community.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Service and The RICO trial against Ray Shawn Bennett aka
the Rapper Wife, and Lucci, along with eleven other co defendants,
was supposed to start earlier this year, but has been delayed.
Bennet's attorney says after more than two years in custody,
they are still waiting for a potential trialtad.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Because of all of this. While we're sitting in the
courtroom on November seventh, and screams and commotions suddenly send
sheriffs running for the halls, and the prosecutor so whisked
away to a protective area. We aren't sure what to
expect this man places start, please be seid. I chase
(04:46):
the sheriff's deputies out of the courtroom and into the hall.
When the commotion begins, turns out two people are in
a fight on the elevator. I see one being pinned
to the ground and coughed for a scuffle apparently unrelated
to any of the these cases. But the wave of
panic that silences the courtroom is proof that this building
is a powder keg that could explode with the smallest spark.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Ultimately, our lawyer is able to successfully argue our readmittance
into court, and just in time too. After ten months,
a jury of twelve has been selected. It consists of
seven black women, two black men, two white women, and
one white man.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
I said to see when you all came in months
and months ago. Thank you for your patience and your
continued patients that you have otherwise given us an additional
three black women, one black man, and two white men
our alternates. The same week of our hearing, Judge Glanville
route that lyrics can be used in the trial and
the basis for prosecutor's argument should sound familiar. In emotion
(05:56):
filed the week before, the DA's office wrote, according to
the defense's argument, had the Turner diaries been read with
background music, it could not have been introduced against Timothy McVay.
Fannie Willis made that same case to us months prior.
Speaker 8 (06:12):
What I tell you is if you wrote a manifesto
and then did those acts.
Speaker 6 (06:16):
That's good evidence.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
There's no different because you put a beat behind it.
We mentioned at the top of the show that the
number of y CEL defendants have been whittled down to six.
As Christopher Sperry from the DA's office told us, this
woodling down has all been part of the prosecution's plan.
Speaker 9 (06:35):
When I'm looking also at deals, one of the things
is not necessarily always who pulled the trigger? What is
the culpability and the age of the defendants, and who
can I remove from this equation? And this does not happen.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
So are these the six defendants who cannot be removed
from the equation. It's sort of hard to.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Say, but in this episode we are going to focus
on one of the first and definitely most famous defendant
to cut a deal and plead guilty in exchange for
no jail time, Sergio Kitchens, also known as Gonna. In
(07:19):
December twenty twenty two, just hours after Gunna negotiated a
plea deal that led to his release from Fulton County Jail,
a video of exactly how that negotiation went down leaked
on social media.
Speaker 10 (07:31):
I would you affiliated with whyl around two thousand and sixteen?
Is that true as it pertains to use use your kiss?
Why cel is a music label and a game and
you have personal knowledge that members are associated with HYSL
have committee primes and partiments of the game.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Isue?
Speaker 1 (07:54):
That video quickly sparked fraud discussions over whether that Alfred
plea was an act of betrayal where Gunna snitched on
his biggest connections to the music industry.
Speaker 10 (08:03):
And do you acknowledge the following statement, I recognize the
steps and deep leary bread that my talent and music
and directly further why sell the game to the detriment
of my community.
Speaker 5 (08:15):
Why sell as a gang must get?
Speaker 8 (08:17):
Is that your statement or acknowledgment?
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Gunna's acceptance in hip hop was put to question by
some of his own industry peers, including Chicago rapper and
past collaborator Little Dirk.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
If you were right, you are right.
Speaker 6 (08:34):
I looked into the camera and I told you if
you were rit I fucking h I love it too.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
It what's life been like for the second most famous
rapper and the YSL crew since he walked out of
Race Street. In order to understand the answer to that question,
you got to start at the beginning. In August twenty eighteen,
(08:59):
an editor from pop magazine Double XL reaches out asking
if I will write a profile on Gonna. Music journalists
were curious to learn more about this rap newcomer who
many first heard on the song Floyd Mayweather from Young
Thug's twenty sixteen album. Jeffrey signed on that with.
Speaker 11 (09:16):
Bone bbs is hit on that Gnack.
Speaker 12 (09:23):
All of a sudden, Thugs sounded kind of weird, and
then I came to figure out that there was a
feature on it.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
It wasn't Thug, it was Gonna.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
That's Atlanta based music journalist Joshua Robinson. I met him
through our mutual friend Yo, co founder of documentary studio
Rap Portraits.
Speaker 8 (09:38):
I thought the name was kind of silly, and I
also feel like his rap style was thug light.
Speaker 6 (09:44):
I got the real Thug, and he.
Speaker 8 (09:47):
Wasn't as like a clectic as thug to me, Like
he wasn't doing the same kind of runs, and he
wasn't necessarily as experimental.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Journalists like Yo and Joshua would argue that the biggest
testament to Young Thug's growing influence on rap was Gunna himself.
Speaker 12 (10:04):
So a lot of the young young artists who had
like huge success, I would say in the late twenty tens,
like right on the cusp of twenty twenty, I would
argue that they are all like young Thugs kids from
like vocal inflections, like from even the howling and just
the crazy stuff that Young Thug would do with his voice,
Like you could see that kind of emulated everyone kind
(10:24):
of bit little pieces of it.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
The comparison makes sense. They're both by products of Atlanta
South Side, and they shared a mentor in Keith Troup,
who Gonna told me was an uncle like figure in
the community. Thug and Gunna met during the making of
a music video released in twenty sixteen for a song
that Young Thug made in Troops Honored. Looking at the
music video, now you think that Young Thug and Gunna
(10:49):
were old friends, and the first scene featuring the two
of them, they look at each other knowingly before they
hit the dab, a popular Atlanta made dance move at
the time. A couple months after the King Trout video drops,
Young Thug would release Jeffrey, and that fall of twenty sixteen,
Gunna releases his first mixtape as a YSL Records artist,
(11:10):
called Drip Season. There's maybe a handful of times on
that project where Gunna speaks to life on the streets.
The most overt reference is in the intro song out
of Sight, out of Mind.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
It's the biggest.
Speaker 11 (11:24):
I ever saw it A kiss.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
A verse like that sticks out today because some of
Gunna's peers accuse him of turning into a snitch during
the YSL trial.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
With Gunna, I don't know too much of his personal
background story.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Albany Beza is a hairstylist in Columbia, Missouri, But to
me it.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
Seemed like his early music he was kind of telling
the story of like where he's came from and how
a lot of that still kind.
Speaker 6 (11:49):
Of shows up.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
And even though he's trained, like now he's his famous,
people know on he has money, like a lot of
his life circumstances have changed, but I think that he
still kind of was like partaking in things that he
was doing before he had the fame and the money
and all of that, and like how it I don't know,
I don't know if he ever really transitioned out of it.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
If there's a song off Drip Season that epitomizes how
Gunn's music would go mainstream, it's caught Me a Foreign
once again. He features Young Thug, which is a flex
and a music genre where high profile features are major currency.
(12:32):
But he also speaks directly to his biggest interest as
a rap artist, which isn't necessarily the hardship and hustle
that drives a lot of hip hop songs, but the
rewards of such hard work.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
So I can sold out dates and ready, Like he's
talking about a lot about like the fame that he's had.
But those two first came to my mind of like
some of his older music where he was just talking
about like the new lifestyle change so that he has
just like the fame and the money and all the
grab that he came into now that he's an artist.
Speaker 6 (13:07):
Gun is cool. I'll give it that.
Speaker 8 (13:09):
Like as far as doubling down on a lifestyle wrap
that I think is accessible, he made the style way
more accessible to ears that thought Thug was a little
bit more of a train rap. Gunn is kind of
like a Mayback. He want to be like a foreign
car for real. He want to have like the foreign drip.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
There's no good way for me to explain what drip
means in this hip hop context without sounding like I'm
approaching my forties, So I'm going to quote Gunna. He
defined drip to Billboard Magazine as essentially the designer clothes
he wears. How he quote might wear a ten thousand
dollars outfit on a weekend. At the time, Gunna was
helping repopularize drip as hip hop slang. If Young Thug
(13:51):
concerned himself most with testing the limits of his elastic
rap voice and being the driving artistic force behind Young
Stoner Life records.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
With Young Thug, I hear him a lot of the features,
and I just can't understand him, Like I feel like
it doesn't articulate and there's no like charisma to his voice.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Then Gonna seem to thrive most off being a trendsetter,
showing how the label could become a mainstream phenomenon.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
Kenna's voice is just like I don't know, it's just
attractive to me, Like when he's rapping, it doesn't even
matter what he's like saying. It's like I get in
tune to his music because of his voice in the
way that he can kind of go back and forth
between R and B and hip hop.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
At the top of twenty twenty two, Gunnahead yet another
hit on his hands, push and pe to rock along
with the song is to pretend that you're in the
know with Gunna Future and Young Thug on what that means,
which is what brands like I hopped it when they
sent out branded tweets like we're always pushing pancakes. It
was news to some myself included that the pee stood
(14:53):
for positivity, as Young Thug's lawyer Brian Steele argued during
opening statements in November twenty tw and.
Speaker 6 (15:01):
What you'll learn is that.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
You have to just released with Sergio Kitchen's formula is
Gonna the song that is wildly popular.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
It's around the globe.
Speaker 5 (15:12):
It's called pushing P and it's positivity.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
It means any circumstance you're in, if you think positively
about something, you can make it through. You're pushing positivity,
pushing P.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
The Washington Post described this desperation to be as hip
is Gunna. Like this quote, you could feel the song
becoming uncool on your skin. Jordan Rose, a journalist for
Complex Media, attributes all this to how mainstream Atlanta rap,
with Gonna being a major poster child, had become.
Speaker 7 (15:46):
The Atlanta rap scene is the most dominant rap scene
in the space right now. So I think the Gunna
fan is similar to an offsets fan is similar to
you know, obviously a thug, a young thug fan, a
future fan. I think kind of interacting in this first
Atlanta space of that kind of trap sound that they
all operating. So people who are trap leading I think
(16:09):
lean towards being fans of Gonna. Also, I think Gunna
has really overtaken the youth. So I think, you know,
fans of Kai Sanat and fans of twitch streaming and
fans of you know, that space and the culture as well,
often are also Gunna fans, Like I think push Your
(16:29):
Piece is a perfect example, Like the phrase became even
larger than the song push your p on the album,
you know what I mean. You could probably not even
know that that's a song if you just were on the
Twitch space or the social media space, And I think
that's like a great example of how the influence has
spread beyond even the music.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Nearly one year after the song took off, when news
of Gunna's Alpha Plea began circulating, its title became a
running joke that fool.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Is pushing please.
Speaker 8 (17:04):
If you're on Twitter, you kind of notice the first
shifts of free the Freak kinda that first initial run
of Hey, I want to see the whole collective free.
Speaker 6 (17:18):
It was like the last camaraderie I've seen on Twitter.
Speaker 8 (17:22):
Or we all felt like why Cell was like our
family and we all want to why Cell out as
a collective. I gonna get us out with that video
pretty much saying you know, why is a gang and
how it needs to be disbanded. Oh that was rough.
That was a rough day on Twitter. That was a
rough day. What are people saying?
Speaker 6 (17:40):
The The yes, ma'am was yes ma'am. The thing like,
oh my god, it looked like betrayal.
Speaker 8 (17:48):
It looked like Julius Caesar getting stabbed by Brutus.
Speaker 6 (17:53):
It did feel like the Eyes of March, like our
version the Eyes March.
Speaker 8 (18:00):
Shakespeare could not have written a more tragic story than
Gunn's video.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Gunn's lawyer, Steve Sadau, tried his best to anticipate all
this when he sent journalists a statement announcing the Alpha plea.
He's stressed that nothing Gunna said during negotiations could be
used against anyone else in court, but this was no match.
Speaker 6 (18:19):
For public opinion.
Speaker 8 (18:20):
You'll need to go to law school to tweet about
people in jail. You can just tweet I'm sorry, but
that's Twitter. You don't know sometimes like who actually knows
what they're talking about versus someone who is just talking.
And sometimes a person just talking got more followers, got
a loud of voice, got a better way of tweeting,
Like there's a savvy to how you can pay something
to get on Twitter for it to go viral. And
(18:42):
I feel like the viral tweets about Gunna all had
rats and a lot of rad emojis.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
It's September ninth, twenty twenty three, Jordan Rose is heading
to Barclays Center in Brooklyn, New York. He's got a
ticket to Gunna's first headlining concert in two years, but
he tells himself to manage his expectations for the show
that night. Jordan is curious to see how Gunna will perform.
He's even more interested in how the crowd at Barclays
will receive him.
Speaker 7 (19:15):
I tried to come in with as low as exportations
as possible, just because I didn't know what the performance
would be like in a general sense, and then you
obviously add on all of these different, you know, new
obstacles that he would be facing. I thought it was
interesting that he chose his first show to come back
to be in New York.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
As a staff writer a complex Jordan has a broad
sense of how the Ysel trial has played out.
Speaker 7 (19:38):
Trying to stay as informed as possible in terms of
everything that's happening.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
He was paying attention when Gunna was charged with conspiring
to violate Rico in part of the initial fifty six
count Ysel indictment, and he saw him walk out of
Rice Street, not to news cameras in a press conference
as Gucci Mane did when he himself was released from
the same Fulton County jail back in two thousand and nine.
Speaker 7 (19:59):
I can't wait to show we're a black field and
now then I'll free.
Speaker 9 (20:02):
I run if you have almost wanted man.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
In joy not to a private jet like the one
that New York rapper Bobby Schmurder wrote in with another
Atlanta artist, Quevo to celebrate his release, but to accusations
that he portrayed a street code of conduct. Tweets with
rat emoji circulated, and then there were the social media stunts.
In one video, you see a bystander tossing wrapped slices
(20:26):
of cheese at a black and white Mercedes made back gls,
leaving cheese for the rat. The video claims that this
was the same SUV that drove Gunna away from Fulton
County Jail in December twenty twenty two. In another video,
a clubgoer shows a nightclub that's playing when a Gunna
is nature versus.
Speaker 11 (20:44):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
The man shooting the video loudly claims the club came
to a standstill once Gunna's voice began blaring.
Speaker 6 (20:51):
Through the speakers.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Then there were the critics on podcasts and radio shows.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
You're not meaning guilty to a rico right, You're not
bringing your in then freeing you.
Speaker 6 (21:04):
That's a fact problem.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
So this also wasn't the first time that hip hop
accused one of its biggest players of being a snitch,
not even over the past few years. In twenty eighteen,
rapper Takashi six ' nine was arrested on racketeering, weapons
and drug charges. Prosecutors accused him of being affiliated with
nine Tray Gangs of Bloods. He could have been sent
to prison for life. Instead, he struck a deal with
(21:30):
prosecutors to become their star witness. I remember choking with
friends that he should have been called Ta Kashi snitch nine.
What he had done. Just felt that blatant on's gonna
took the alpha plea though six ' nine visited hip
hop commentator DJ Academics and seemed more than eager to
deflect those accusations of being a snitch on someone else.
Speaker 7 (21:51):
Nowhere know how in the transcript the Sonava foot typing
it up, did they say yes and we are a gang?
Speaker 2 (21:59):
They did?
Speaker 12 (22:00):
They denied that, denied, deny, deny, deny, deny, deny.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
So Sergio Fatass Kitchens winning that plue room and admit
it good ask.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
But Joshua Robinson, the journalist from Atlanta, remembers how that
charge was led by people who were actually close to
Young Thug.
Speaker 12 (22:16):
You have YSL affiliates like Lil got It, who's not
even really a part of YSL, but he's like kind
of leading the charge that Gunna is in fact a snitch.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Low got It is an artist signed to Alamo Records,
a sony music in print, but he at one point
lived off Cleveland Avenue, and in the beginning of his
career he benefited from co signs by Young Thug and
Yes Gunna. When Gunna left Fulton County Jail, Low got
It charged him on Instagram with betraying quote unquote family.
Speaker 12 (22:47):
So when Gunna gets out, there's like either no like
fanfare or like sly remarks here and there on his story.
I think Lil got It was really big on his
story at the time, if I'm room correctly, because I
was reporting on this, I had new hip hop like
every day. I think that he was like doing little
shady stuff and then when Umfun got out, is all
buddy buddy with Unfunk and I think they're stolen shots
and Gunna through Instagram as well.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
On Funk is Young Thug's older brother, Quantavias career. He's
another defendant in the y cell trial who took an
Alpha kleet just days after Gunna did the same.
Speaker 12 (23:18):
It's very, very much so just this petty, petty like
you would snitch you or rat type stuff.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
What didn't help matters was the apparent disconnect between Young
Thug and Gunn at themselves.
Speaker 8 (23:29):
Here's Yo at the time. Thug was still using Twitter
right before kind of got out. I don't know if
people remember, but Thug was kind of active on Twitter
and not actively saying anything about the case or anything.
Speaker 6 (23:41):
But she just kind of like tweets here and there.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
I have to mention the most bizarre example. One year
after he was arrested in Buckhead, Young Thug tweeted at
Olympic swimmer Michael Phelps asking whether he could quote swim
one hundred miles from the middle of the ocean back
to shore, back to what Yo was saying.
Speaker 6 (24:00):
He was casually.
Speaker 8 (24:00):
Tweeting, and when Gunn got out, his tweets stopped a
cancel hall like Thug never ever kind of came out
and said anything about Gunn's situation.
Speaker 6 (24:11):
If he approved it disapproved.
Speaker 8 (24:13):
So Thug's quietness just made the issue louder.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
For two consecutive weeks. In June twenty twenty three, the
two biggest artists of Young Stoner Life Records released their
first new album since being arrested. Gunnas was called a
Gift in a Curse. The album featured a lead single
where he accused Da Fani Willis of doing some quote
unquote sneaky shit. Then Young Thug released Business as Business.
(24:38):
The cover art features him sitting in a courtroom, turning
around to face the camera. Young Thug Gunna's biggest champion
leading up to the Ysel indictment. His mentor, who had
been featured on almost every Gunna album since the two
met in twenty sixteen, doesn't appear at all on Gunna's
homecoming album, and while Young Thug managed to wrangle high
(25:00):
profile features like Drake Future, Travis Scott, and Nicki Minaj,
Gunna was nowhere to be found on Businesses Business.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
The day that Gunna drop it could have been way cooler.
Speaker 12 (25:11):
He could have had business business, and then he could
have dropped a deluxe version of Gunner's album with Thug
on it, and that would have been a completely different
that would have changed everything if that was the case.
But he goes and drops his project with no Gunner
feature on it and a whole bunch of hot, big
industry people.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
The staff track list seemed to signify the industry support
behind Young Thug. As for a Gift and a Curse,
Gunna sounds isolated from raps inder Circle, a star contrast
compared to how his last album DS Forever was his
most star study yet.
Speaker 8 (25:45):
J Cole started to kind of become a meme for
having no features on his album, right, but that was
an anomaly, you know, like, oh J Cole and double
platinum with no features. But he's the only artist really
doing no features. Most big artists. Part of it is
having associations. Part of the reason why people gonna stream
certain albums is I want to hear this rapper.
Speaker 6 (26:08):
Paired with this rapper.
Speaker 8 (26:09):
It's a big party, Like it's kind of like a
wrestling match. You don't fight yourself, you and there's the
versus Goldberg. People are tuning in for the spectacle, and
I feel like features gave rap a spectacle that you
don't see in other genres. Other rock bands don't really
cross collaborate like that. But a hip hop you can
take a future and you pair them with a Drake
and you can have a diamond record because you put
(26:30):
these two rappers together on a record that just sounds amazing.
Like you got so used to seeing Gonna in collaboration,
did a whole table little Baby. He's not an artistist
that seems selfish about I only make music for me
by me. It always felt like he was a part
of a larger conglomerate of collaborators, and this was the
first time where there's no collaboration.
Speaker 6 (26:51):
So it was a big It was a bit of
a shock, and you couldn't.
Speaker 8 (26:54):
Read it at first as if did you make this
album by yourself because you wanted to or because no
picked up the phone?
Speaker 6 (27:01):
You know, you couldn't tell A.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Gift in Accurse only features one of Gunna's go to producers, Turbo.
He's been loyal to Gunna at the very least since
I interviewed both of them for Double XL back in
twenty eighteen. But it was still striking to hear how
even producers appear to have distanced themselves from perhaps the
biggest name on their resumes. Six months prior to those
(27:24):
release weeks, a Rolling Stone headline read a court screwed Gunna.
Now he's being shunned by his peers. Upon first impression,
A Gift and a Curse seemed to confirm this, but
when the album comes out, it debuts as the third
best selling in the country, higher than Midnights by Taylor
Swift that week. Gunna's album has since spent twice as
(27:45):
many weeks on the Billboard Album Chart as Young Thugs,
and although Young Thugs album originally unseated Gunnas from the
top spot on the R and B and Hip Hop
album's chart, Business is Business charted for only six weeks,
A Gift and a Curse hearted for twenty.
Speaker 8 (28:01):
The music was so strong by itself, It's like, you know,
it didn't feel like gonna need y'all.
Speaker 6 (28:08):
Y'all might need Gunning.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Arriving at the show at Barclay Center in Brooklyn that
Saturday night, Jordan Rose notices something.
Speaker 6 (28:23):
Immediately.
Speaker 7 (28:25):
I drove that to five parking I found parking way
down the street because it was this is when I
first realized, oh, like it is Gonna be crazy because
I'm driving up and I'm hearing Gonna being played in
the streets of Brooklyn at a five parking a few
streets down from Barkleys, and when I'm walking, I see
it's like a ridiculous line. Just to just to get
(28:46):
into the building to check it.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Jordan gets in, takes a seat, and watches the nineteen
thousand others Phillip quickly the show is sold out. He
begins talking to people sitting around him.
Speaker 6 (28:59):
The first guy says, I'm from Baltimore.
Speaker 7 (29:02):
He was like, this is my first time at Barkley
Soon and I was like, wow, that's crazy.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
What he quickly realizes is that these aren't all NYC fans.
Speaker 7 (29:09):
I came up to someone else and they were from Virginia.
That theme persistent throughout the night.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Gonna had only two shows scheduled in the US, one
in Los Angeles and one in.
Speaker 7 (29:19):
New York, so I feel like a lot of people
on the East Coast weren't going to make it to
the LA show. So it was like you had to
really get here because it was the only chance to
see him, especially because it was the first time back.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
How was Gonna been able to outsell Young Thug this year.
You could chalk up that initial chart performance to overall curiosity,
if not anticipation of what he'd have to say after
being jailed. Since May twenty twenty two, press play and
the music feels weighed down by this palpable sense of
obligation to acknowledge that at the very least, this is
(29:59):
a challenge time for Hysel. The album's lead single is
Bread and Butter, which calls out the DA's office and
openly acknowledges the scorn he's received since leaving Fulton County Jail.
Speaker 11 (30:10):
Never again, no ugly you know what I'm saying or
whatever you niggas on the trust me how much the
DA did some niggas shit?
Speaker 12 (30:18):
I fail for it.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Here's yo.
Speaker 8 (30:20):
I wouldn't even say you played it safe, you played
it smart. Mmm, he didn't. He didn't feed into it
too much. I feel like there's things that he referenced
on the album, like I think bread and Butter mm
hmm yep. He kind of like alludes to some people
like like changing sides and not necessarily like being on
his side. But he doesn't really call nobody out by name.
(30:43):
He doesn't pick fights. You know, he sort of just
expresses how it feels from his end. I think Gonna
sounds disappointed largely at people thinking that he would do
something to thug, to betray Thug, or betray the.
Speaker 6 (30:57):
People he came up with.
Speaker 8 (30:59):
And I think he also expresses how hard it was
to kind of just be sitting down for so long.
He's lost a year of his life. That's a hard
thing to do for anybody for any reason.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
But Bread and Butter isn't the reason why Gunna has
been dominating the Billboard charts in the year of Hip
hop fiftieth anniversary. It's only a part of Gunna's continued
success in a year where raps share in total music
revenue has been dwindling. The real reason is a single
that came after Bread and Butter, a lifestyle anthem called
fuck you Mean. Here's Joshua Robinson.
Speaker 12 (31:32):
I was talking about little Bro. I was just talking
about who's like, you're younger than me. When it came
out that Gunna was released and he took the plea
deal man, he was he was heartbroken. He was like,
oh man, he's a rat, he a snitched all that.
When I tell you he bumps. He bumps this way
more than I do. And I was just talking to
him yesterday, but I was like, why do you listen
to it? And he was like he slid and it's
(31:52):
like it's just that simple to him. And he was
saying that you can't ignore the talent. And I was like,
but isn't he a rat? He's like, oh, yeah, he's
definitely a rat. He's definitely a rat. But like for him,
I think he said that more it's not a it's
not a moral issue for him to listen to the music,
so he doesn't feel like he's betraying those like snitching
like standards by listening to the music. It'd be different
(32:13):
if he was, like I guess rocking with him personally.
But yeah, it's complex. I guess people are just deciding
to ignore it a little bit for their musical enjoyment.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
I guess. Hmm.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Okay, okay, And you said he was three years younger
than you, so how old are you?
Speaker 12 (32:28):
So I was twenty five, he's twenty two, Okay, yeah,
ok he's outside for real, for real and way more
outside than me. And yeah, he I'm telling you, when
fuck you mean came out like?
Speaker 3 (32:39):
That?
Speaker 6 (32:39):
Was?
Speaker 12 (32:40):
That was shit, shit, Yeah, it's crazy, it's the whole mixtape.
He still listened to it to this stat too, because like,
how many months is it now?
Speaker 3 (32:48):
Has it been?
Speaker 12 (32:49):
It came out in the summer, Yeah, that's nothing holds
his attention now long?
Speaker 1 (32:54):
So fuck You Mean has been so so successful that
atopped the US Spotify charts and remained a mainstay on
the platform's major playlists even months later. It's also become
Gunna's first solo single to top several Billboard charts. No Features,
No Problem. Billboard reported that the song first took off
(33:16):
on streaming before radio inevitably caught on. It doesn't remark
on how unlikely the song's rise to platinum sales has
been to become rap song of the Summer, all just
a few months after this nitch and conversation bubbled up,
and many months before the y Cel trial will be over.
So maybe those stitching conversations were besides the point. And
(33:37):
at least this day and age, rap has long been
associated with gritty realism, but that's far from the appeal
of all rap artists. There's this question about whether even
street cred was even the larger point of guns appeal
that was something that I've always been thinking about. It
was like, did we look to Gunna for stuff like
this or you know, to like abide by this quote
unquote code right.
Speaker 12 (33:59):
Yeah, Gunner's music up in that point was like clothing drugs.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Like I think he was very vibe.
Speaker 12 (34:05):
You know, I don't think unless I'm just having like
a blank in my mind, I don't remember necessarily hearing
like overtly overly street things, and like Drake talks about
street things, so like if Drake can talk about it,
you know what I'm saying, Like it's like a bass
layer that some artists may do. But like, I don't
think anyone thought that Gunna was that guy in the streets.
Like ever, jay Z said it best when he was
(34:28):
Disagnis on Takeover, and he was like, you're rapping about
things that are happening around you that you're not actually doing.
And I think that's what a lot of rappers pool
from to relate to more people. Like I mean, Drake
on his new album has a song where he's like
you shot him in daylight, and like we know he's
not talking about himself, like Jake's not shooting anyone in daylight.
And I mean he may not even be talking about
(34:49):
an actual person, but it's like that connection there, but
it's like we don't take it seriously. And I feel
like it was the same way with Gunna. Like I
don't think anyone would have expected Gunna to be a
street guy.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
That is, says Jordan Rose, until Gunna's listening audience was
told to hold him up to that expectation.
Speaker 7 (35:06):
In terms of like his widening fan base, people only
cared about what they were suggested to care about, as
hip hop is going into the space and Gunnis fans
intersect with like twitch Jimmy fans intersect with.
Speaker 6 (35:20):
General cool kids slang fans.
Speaker 7 (35:24):
I think if you heard from one of your favorite
streamers that gun is a snitch, you're gonna think he's
a snitch, even if you don't fully understand what that
means or the street politics that are behind that label.
But then you have a whole other group of rap
fans who are like, yo, don't like this guy because
(35:47):
he's a rat and rats are bad, and they don't
really know the full context behind that, but they're told
by somebody that they like and follow believes that, so
they believe that as well.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
With hip hop still being a commercial force on TikTok,
especially Yo says Gunna's lifestyle wraps can serve ass aspirational
soundtrack for all walks of life.
Speaker 8 (36:09):
Twitter is a space where you want to be your
most authentic self. Like authenticity has value there, and also
there's credos and rules that people might want to like
establish that means you're authentic, right, or you're really about
(36:30):
what you say, you really stand on business in this
kind of way. On TikTok, Man, people want to make
Q videos and people want to laugh, People want to
like enjoy a sounder, right. They might not even associate
this clip with a Gonna or with the rapper, you know,
they might not associate this with a.
Speaker 6 (36:48):
Person's life and lifestyle. On Twitter.
Speaker 8 (36:51):
It's like if you post Gunna, you condone everything Gonna
has done. On TikTok, It's like you can associate with
a forty second clip and move on to the next thing.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
On TikTok, fuck You Mean has become the unofficial soundtrack
for white kids feeling themselves on camera and doing Romanian
deadlifts at the gym.
Speaker 6 (37:10):
I never thought Gunna was gym rat music.
Speaker 8 (37:13):
I never thought he was going to follows in the
gym you know, where the only drift is sweat, like
I never thought, I never thought that's why you played Gunna.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
But most notably, the song also sounds like the before times,
a time when whenever Gunna was doing was always trending,
more specifically, a time before the YSL trial.
Speaker 7 (37:34):
If you only lived on the Internet, the successful year
that Gunna has had would sound impossible. The rap fans
who endorse street codes that they've never had to live
by a crucified him for taking a plea deal, and
the rappers who may have made the same decision in
his position to turn their backs on him. Even though
it looks like the rapp world betrayed Gunna, his talent
and loyal fanbas proved that hip hop is so much
bigger than the narratives on Twitter.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
People lie, The Internet lies, but the music shirt doesn't.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
That's what Jordan Rose wrote to conclude his review of
Gunna's first concert in two years for Complex. He remembers
the moment those thoughts first came to mind.
Speaker 7 (38:07):
We ramp through all of his like you know, biggest
songs from all of his old albums. He had a
young thug segment where he did all his songs with Thug.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
At one point, the screens to gun his left and
right read free Jeffrey in all caps.
Speaker 7 (38:21):
But then it wasn't until he got into Gifted a Curse,
which I think you know is a much more emotional album.
He like really responds to what talks about, what his
experience has been like since he's been released, and all
like the emotional trials and Tripulationcy's been through. And it
was just seeing you know, the audience, especially like in
(38:42):
the GA section, like the standing ga in front of
the of the stage, knowing every single word, even to
the songs that on the new album that aren't popular.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
One song that has yet to be released as a single,
and who knows if it ever will be is the
album's last track. All Right. It's where Gunna tries his best.
I feel hope full about the future, though as he admits,
it feels challenging.
Speaker 11 (39:04):
Y'all talk to my dog, just tell them I miss won.
Nobody's pain came on my rhythm. She was just not
I didn't use a common sense pass away ananamous she
eat me up on Hell's see.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
This is about as confessional as Gunna has ever been
in his career. Jordan says that the crowd at Barclay
Center was ready to receive him at his most vulnerable.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
It was like a cathartic experience. It felt like a
cathartic performance for him.
Speaker 7 (39:30):
Then to see that that cathartic performance be matched by
a crowd rapping every word to this song about you
talking about people not messing with you anymore because they
think you're a rat, and people thinking you turned your
back on your best friend without knowing the full.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Context of the situation.
Speaker 7 (39:48):
To have fans who might have been included in that
group that he is rapping about earlier in the year
to still be so loyal to him, to like know
these words so well. You know, people realize that they
care about the music more than they do these street
politics that they don't actually live by, but they want
to kind of act like they do for the timeline.
(40:11):
That was really the moment that solidified for me that
the music can really overpower any of the narratives that
Twitter may have.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Since it's released from Fulton County Jail, Gunna has been
spotted in Beverly Hills more than Atlanta. From Damn near
the beginning of his music catalog. He's long fantasized about
hanging out on the West Coast. Here's another snippet from
Caught Me at Feign, his twenty sixteen track featuring Young Thug.
Speaker 3 (40:38):
Here's how to do mentioning than hims.
Speaker 7 (40:40):
I won not takeing a fuck I.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Feel years later in A Gift and a Curse. Beverly
Hills is where Gunna sounds the most free. My personal
favorite moment is that transition from fuck You Mean to
another song called Rodeo Drive. I've run both songs back
for those few seconds alone, especially while driving around in Atlanta,
(41:14):
and I imagine this would have been my favorite moment
to see live at Barclays. In the context of the album,
the beat switch feels like a flash forward to a
time when the YSL trial is some distant memory. When
Gunna performs this at Barclays, he wears a custom winged
and feather top with matching wooly trousers. As Fucking Me
winds down, though Gunna removes his top, revealing his bare
(41:38):
chest underneath. On cue with the beat switch, there are pyrotechnics,
the crowd mashes and sinc phones recording, and Gunna starts
skipping He's light on his feet. In his concert review,
(42:02):
Jordan Rose was impressed by Gunn's return to the stage,
most notably because of where it took place.
Speaker 7 (42:08):
To come out on the other side and have such
a successful show in New York, not even Atlanta. I
think that was also the biggest thing of like it,
not even being in his home state. It could have
very easily just been a dud. I think all just
plays into how Gunna's ability and his talent overshadows what
people think they should think about him.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
But we couldn't help but wonder whether a show like
this was possible in Atlanta. My journalist colleagues here say
it would have likely been too risky.
Speaker 8 (42:40):
They said, or DJ played a song in the club
that was a Gunner record and everyone stopped dancing.
Speaker 6 (42:46):
I don't know if that was true or not. You
know how you can make things look.
Speaker 8 (42:51):
But there was always this feeling that Atlanta had yet
to re embrace Kinna completely and again like, I don't know,
I feel like when I'm out, I haven't felt his
presence in the same way that I feel his presence
a lie, you know, through the influencers on TikTok or
his influence in like conversations like this where we're kind
of trying to understand where he stands now, and I
(43:13):
think that.
Speaker 6 (43:14):
That is still it's still weighs on what he's able
to do.
Speaker 8 (43:18):
It's not he's not out of the clear in that
sense yet, especially here. So I think that there's something
that Atlanta is still kind of processing.
Speaker 12 (43:26):
Even if he thinks it's cool, there's enough debate growing
around on if he's a snitch or not, Like no
rapper is safe. I don't think any artist should willingly
put himself in danger like that, because it doesn't even
have to be someone from YASL or someone who's affiliated
with why Cel. It could be someone who just feels
like they got something to prove or want to go
viral and now rip Gunna.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
You know.
Speaker 13 (43:49):
The other thing I think about too is you know,
he got probation, which sounds to people like nothing, but
probation is actually a big deal when you're especially when
your entire social network is indicted with Rico chargers. I mean,
you cannot associate with a convicted felon if you're on probation.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
For example, that's King Slime, producer Tommy andres like that's a.
Speaker 13 (44:09):
Big deal for some of these guys, right like you,
you almost have to get away in order to not
like run the risk of violating your probation in some way.
Speaker 12 (44:19):
And that may be why we haven't heard young Thugs
say anything about Gunna as well, because I know that,
like you said that in the in the plea, he's
not allowed to even contact Thug, So I don't know
what that looks like. But on the same hand, he's
saying he's having banners that say free Thug at hassowed
out concerts, So I don't it's weird.
Speaker 3 (44:35):
I don't know how they're allowed to tiptoe around these things.
Speaker 12 (44:38):
But speaking of probation, Umfunk got arrested again because he
violated his probation after taking that out for plea.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
So after Young Thug's older brother on Funk violated the
turns of his probation in summer twenty twenty three, he
was sentenced to nine and a half years in prison.
Speaker 3 (44:56):
So it's reird they will take you back.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
And with that sort of looming large, Joshua could see
why Gunna's first concert in two years wasn't a proper homecoming.
Speaker 12 (45:07):
I've been having a hard time saying that Atlanta's the
capital of hip hop still, like I think, undisputed, like
it probably since twenty fourteen, it was Atlanta, no doubt,
no one sustained it as long as Atlanta has and
even how it's become a hub for people to move
here to make it in music, like you got people
(45:29):
like Yet and Jack Carlow making it off of the.
Speaker 3 (45:31):
Connections that they made in Atlanta.
Speaker 12 (45:33):
What happens when all these major players are gone, and
what happens for the futures, just like you know what,
I'm gonna do a drake, I'm gonna bow out for
a little bit. I'm gonnasappear. IM gonna let y'all handle it.
I don't know if the infrastructure is strong enough here
for that to continue without the people like Thug and Gun.
Like I said, Gunna moves away and doesn't ever come
back to Atlanta. Maybe he stays on Rodeo's drive, you know,
(45:55):
maybe he's just constantly in La.
Speaker 3 (45:58):
I wonder what that looks like.
Speaker 12 (46:00):
I can see this being the shift to somewhere else,
and that may be a good thing for the genre.
Speaker 3 (46:04):
It may be time for like new sounds, new ideas.
Speaker 12 (46:08):
It could be a beautiful thing, but right now it's
kind of like bittersweet.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
King Slime is a production of iHeart Podcasts and Hairloom Media.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
It's written and produced by George Cheedy, Christina Lee, and Tommy.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
Andres, mixing sound design and original music by Evan Tire
and Taylor Chaicogne.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
The executive producer and editor is Tommy Andres.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
Our theme music is by Done Deal.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
Special thanks to Tyler Klay and.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
To the Atlanta News outlets, eleven Alive, WSBTV, Atlanta News First,
and Fox five.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
For more shows from iHeart Podcasts, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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