June 23, 2022 • 53 mins
Two-time NBA Champion, NBA Finals MVP and Boston Celtics radio analyst Cedric Maxwell joins the show to discuss his book "If These Walls Could Talk", where he opens up about his life and career, and shares some incredible insight into the Celtics Dynasty in the 80's. Cedric also shares stories about his time spent with the LA Clippers as a teammate of my dad, why he sacrificed his numbers to stay in Boston, and what led to his departure after helping led the team to a championship. I asked Cedric about his recent Draymond Green beef and if the game is better or worse off with league's emphasis on less physical play and shooting more 3-pointers. Great conversation with a one-of-a-kind NBA legend. #allball
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is kJ Live with Chris john Sallie and Chris
is having conversations with influencers in the sports world and
entertainment in a strain. Now here's Chris Johnson. You're now
tuned in to kJ lock. Today's guest on the show,
(00:25):
there's a two time NBA champion for the Boston Celtics.
He was named NBA Finals MVP in He now works
as a radio analyst for those same Celtics. Ladies and gentlemen,
let's welcome in NBA legend Cedric Maxwell to the show.
What's happening to Maxe? Well, thank you man for having me?
(00:46):
You did? You left with that one value a partner.
I played with your daddy That would drive me to go.
That was the that was like at the end of
all that playing with the Clippers. I I enjoyed him.
You know, we battled so much when your dad played
with the he was there with Milwaukee, and then all
of a sudden we both got to be a little
bit older and we got traded away from our prospective
(01:08):
teams and ended up in the l A that day
in l A with the Clippers, and we had so
much fun. The only thing I laughed about is. I
told him, I said, here I was. Every time they
introduced your dad uh as the Clippers. Everybody, Yeah, Marcus,
every time they introduced me, go back to bosting your pomb.
(01:28):
We hate you here. So every city I played in
that year, I got booed, except when I came to Boston. Funny,
that's funny. L a fan cup of fans got their
nerve trying to bull a Boston god. They claimed to
hate the Lakers. So I don't understand how they were
booing you, But I guess so, man, I guess that's
how it's going down back then in the eighties. Uh,
talk to me about though Donald Sterling's Clippers. What it
(01:52):
was like during that era. My dad's been on the
show man here talking about y'all was practicing. I would,
you know, Pomona understanding Motel sixes and it was it
wasn't really on that level, Yeah it was. It was.
It was from the NBA. It was third world when
you think about playing in the NBA all the luxuries
that kind of go along with it. That for us
(02:15):
was was kind of crazy. But I think we enjoyed it.
You know, we had a bunch of veteran guys who
came there all of a sudden, we were we basically
surrounded Derek Smith. At that time, it was gonna be
a buddy superstar in the league. And and then he
got hurt and the first i think first five games
of the season. We were in the first five games
(02:35):
and uh, you know, we're off to a good start.
And then everybody got hurt and you had that Clipper,
that Clipper jinks, and uh, we never we never recovered again.
It was it was fun being out there. It was
really different from me because you know, obviously playing in
championship games with the Celtics. Remember when one called in particular,
I'm playing and and and the referee something happened and
(02:59):
I got fouled and I was like, you know, and
I looked at him. He's like, you're not with us
any more. And the Clippers you're not getting that damn call.
There's no way you're getting that call. So so it
was really strange kind of being out there, being in
that environment and trying to understand the nature and how
really the game changed from being with the Celtics a contender,
(03:22):
to somebody with the Clippers, who were pretenders at the time. Yeah,
and you, I mean the contrast and the organization's probably
was a show shock for you. I saw that you
had moved out to Palace Verdes and and one of
the big things for you when you're in l A.
Was the commute. The drive, I mean two hours to
two hours from just talk a little bit about that
first kind of year and getting acclimated to the l A.
(03:43):
C that that was that was really strange. We moved
Don Cheney, who was the head coach at that time, Um,
he decided he he left out in Palace version said,
my wife used to babysitter's kids and they were really
good ends and found a great house out in Palace Verties.
But he said, the commute, it was essentially it was
(04:06):
gonna be maybe about almost an hour going into the
sports arena, then an hour back, and like on a
game day, essentially it was about four about a four
hour drive on the road. And uh, it was that
was that was diff But it was one thing about it,
I always said after the game, it was peaceful. It
(04:26):
gave me a chance to kind of detox a little bit.
When you played in the game. Sometimes when you live
really near you're you know, you're still pumped up. Well
that gave me a chance to it just kind of
wrapped my mind around what happened and detox and get
back home and and there was nothing like living out
in Palace Verdes. Essentially I had a house that looked
out onto the Pacific Ocean and looked out on h
(04:50):
I could see Catalina, So it was it was. It
was a great place to stay, and it's one of
these places I wish I had sold at that time.
It was a ranch, three bedroom. We got it for
three hundred and ninety five thousand dollars and uh, the
Pacific Ocean was our backyard. So now I don't know
(05:12):
if it's three million or yeah, it was. It was
at the end of a dead in street, so it
was like we were on the hillside and there was
nothing in front us, so all you could see was
the ocean. So it was a great view. But it
was again just trying to understand l A and then
trying to understand basically like being in l A. I
(05:35):
think the biggest thing was the adjustment to um being
famous or not famous, because essentially when you went out
to l A, I remember, you know, back east, I
go someplace. Hey, sire, that's why you doing. But then
got out the l A. It was like people walking
back me like, oh wait a minute here, hey, But
I learned that everybody was the start in Hollywood, you know,
(05:57):
from the from the person parking the cars deserving your
food that it was only a few people out there
to stop traffic. And I think Magic was one of
them at that time. So it was a different environment
for me. Yeah, you and you probably were on the
minds of a lot of l A fans from your
Boston Celtics years. I mean, the greatest rivalry in sports
in my opinion, Celtics verse Lakers, and you were a
(06:19):
part of that, like the core run um during the eighties.
But but what I think a lot of people don't
realize is before Larry Bird was drafted to the team
or you know, you were the lead starting small forward
average nineteen, a game Bird comes in, talk about what
it took for you to sacrifice and basically get in
(06:42):
where you fit in if you will, with the Celtics
team and or as opposed to kind of you know, hey, man,
I this you know I want to play you know,
Average nineteen the game I deserved this you know, you
had you had another you had the opportunity to take
that standpoint. Max, talk about why you decided to work
with them. Well, I think that you you you understand
(07:02):
what greatness is, and you don't fight city Hall. You
know you're fit. You fit in Uh yeah, average nineteen
and ten. The year before Larry came. And you know,
I didn't think I was a big cheese. And Larry
came the first day of practice and and you know,
I'm looking at him. I'm you know, and I'm thinking,
and I was a prejudice of black player, so I
(07:22):
hadn't seen that many white guys could play. So you
walked over to the court and I remember doing like
this great white hope. I'm thinking, to my mind, okay,
this is its out to be a lay up. And
I knocked down a couple of shots against him. Okay,
this is pretty easy. But then he started knocking on
a couple of shots to me, on me, and then
I get up closer and closer. Man, I'm sweating. By
(07:45):
the end of the practice. Man, he's still draining shots.
I'm like, get to the first black person I can see,
and I say, you know what, that fucking white guy
can play right there. That's that was in my mind set.
So I'm like, hey, so I gotta is to see
you know, really greatness and that. And then it was like,
you know, at that that point, I understood that my
(08:08):
game complimented his game and vice versa, and that you know,
we were He was an inside I was an inside player,
he was an outside player. You know. I was gonna
make it easier for him. He was gonna make it
easier for me, and um, you know, just trying to
use your smarts. And and I remember Ricky Davis watching
him playing when Lebron came in. Yeah, you're not gonna
(08:30):
you're you're not gonna win that battle, Ricky. There, I
don't care what you do. You don't have to work
in that environment. And uh, Larry Burger coming in, you know,
it was his team, you know, and and and the
way they paid him where he came in, how he
was playing. So it was it was an opportunity for
me to adjust my game. And I had to adjust
my game, probably most more than most, because not only
(08:52):
did we get one white player, you know, Larry Burbet, Damn,
we get Kevin McHale next, and we get probably Parish
and my shot still going down and down at that
But it was all about winning. We had the I
think we had the greatest front line maybe to ever
play in the game. And those four and and us
four guys that we have on with Louis and read
(09:14):
hour about Uh, put created that Big four? Right. It
was a draft I read you, you know, I started
off with the foreword and Robert Perris was breaking that
down on how you guys got together. Uh. I don't
think he gets enough credit for building it. And I
don't think that that's that that that Big four really
gets talked about enough in terms of in NBA history
(09:34):
and how it was formed and and then and the
effect and and the lasting effect it had on the game.
Because y'all always six eight between six eight and seven feet, right,
so six eight six, Kien sixtens seven feet and then
Larry at the small forward. But you and Kevin mckill,
I mean, you guys were pretty much interchangeable and sense
and it seemed like you would pick up, you would
(09:56):
take the defensive matchup on the other end. Talk about
a little been about just changing your mindset from a
guy that's a nineteen and ten guys sacrificing your points
just to be able to look like say, hey I
got i got Bernard King on this series, or I'm
picking up doc in this series and just just totally
you know, gave it your all on that end. Well,
I didn't have a choice. That was the big thing.
(10:18):
Bill Fitch walked up to me the first day of
practice said I scored a couple of baskets. I was
laughing about something and pulled me to the side and
said it seems like a pretty smart guy. I'm like, yeah, okay,
where is this going? He goes, um, you know every
night you're gonna have to guard the toughest guy. I'm like,
whoa is a minute? You know, I'm I'm a lover,
(10:38):
I'm not not a not a fighter and uh but
he made it clear that look, if somebody has to
be sacrificed, if you have to say, if there's some
office that's gonna have to be sacrifice, it's gonna have
to be you. And now I didn't. I was reluctant,
but after a while I stought to embrace it and
think how could we win? What could I do to
(11:00):
make this team better? So, yeah, I had to guard
guys like your dad. Yeah, you know, guard Marcus and
you know, had to guard Burnard King and guys like that.
And it was tough because, you know, on one end
they were trying to guard Larry and then Larry would
score on them, but he and but Larry wouldn't guard
him on the other end, so they'd all be piste
(11:20):
off by the time they got back down to the
office of me and and they want to take it
out on me, like dude, look, hey, hey, why don't
you take it out a little? And I remember one
time in particular, Larry was standing beside Bernard King and
he said switch Switch. I'm like, well, no, you're standing
right there. You could you could you take him for
a minute? Those were those were you know, just times. Uh.
(11:43):
We got Robert Parrish and Kevin mckill all in one
fatal swoop Golden State Warriors um that year they had
the third pick in the draft, subits had the first
pick in the traft, and Golden State came to me
and said, what we wanna do is we wanna we're
gonna give you I was a free agent. We're gonna
give you a big contract once you play with Golden State.
(12:06):
And when they have Robert Parrish. When you get this
kid McHale and that's gonna be our front line, I'm like, okay.
And then two days later I see where the Subtics
traded their first pick to the Golden State Warriors, and
Golden State took Joe Barry Carroll and we got Robert
Parrish and Kevin McKell to Holiday one of the biggest,
(12:27):
biggest lopsided deal maybe too ever. And I like Joe
Berry Carroll. You know, it was a good players. He
was serviceable, he was an All star, but he wasn't
going to be you know, Hall of Fame material like
Robert Parrish and Kevin McHale. So it was a outsided
deal that worked on the favor of the Celtics. After
you guys won the title one, you had a down
(12:51):
year the next year. I believe you guys got swept
by the Bucks. Don't tell me, but I had to
bring it up because I could when I used to
look at that throughout, know when I was younger, right,
and I'm like, how did this happen? I never understood
it that I saw a couple of lines in the
book where you said the player you guys basically or
the players were just kind of kind of grown weary
of Coach Fitch because of his hard grinding style. Just
(13:13):
talk about that year coach Fitches style and why you
know that collapse sort of happened. It was a sweep
to the Bucks, I mean unexpected after the championship. Well,
I think one of the things that happened was that
they said Bill Fitch was he was a taskmaster and
he he he didn't allow us to grow his men.
(13:35):
Because of that, I think there was a rebelliot uh
you know where Robert Parrish and Kevin McHale and Nate Archie,
but a lot of people just were tired. And give
you an example like say, for instance, if we were
at the man if we're a Madison Square Garden playing
the game. Bill Fitch had this rule early on that
if we're at the garden after the game team stayed overnight,
(13:56):
we would have to go back to the hotel, even
if you have free and waiting for you, uh you know,
at the garden after the game, you had to go
back to get on the team all the way back
and then come back if you want to. And and
guys got really you know, worry about that and and
there were a lot of things and and Bill just
did not let go. Instead of once you win the championship,
(14:21):
you've created you need to create more of an environment
and you grow as a coach and you let your
more leeway. Well, Bill didn't do that. He wanted to
maintain those same rules and didn't allow us to grow
as players. And I think that really took a toll
one how we performed. And it just almost seemed like
a mutiny that that that year that we lost to
(14:42):
the Bucks, just like we were probably we were a
better team, obviously a better team to get swelled, but
it was just so many guys just seemed to be
so piste off that we we just didn't play well
at all. And then and it reflected itself just as
far as like effort and lock in as far as
what coach is telling y'all and executing game plans kind
(15:02):
of like man, f this or wasn't it like that
type of prevalent attitude like f this stuff? We you know,
I'm not rolling coach. Yeah, And I think that that's
what you know, a lot of guys were. It was
a mattitude that they felt like it was it was
just too much form and because of that, I think
(15:22):
that it made us. It took us from being a
tight team to a bunch of individuals. And you know
in the NBA that you cannot win a series. You
can't win if you have the environment where you are splintering.
And that's what happened that year. We were splintered and
because of that we got what by the Bucks and
(15:43):
Bill Fitch ends up leaving and uh, Casey Jones comes
in and Casey Jones takes on the mantle and you know,
we go want to win another championship with the guys
who have versus electors. Who was the big biggest difference
between Kate coach Casey Jones and coach Bill Fitch. I
think that Casey was in the mindset he he he
had been a former player and nothing nothing wrong with
(16:06):
you know, you know guys who have ever played, because
great Great probably is one of the greatest. But coaches
we had, but I think that he had a sense
of what we needed and he really let go and
he allowed those guys to be individuals and and I
think they were They played harder for him and respected
the fact of what he gave us. And then those
(16:28):
players gave it back to him. So I think that's
why we want Oh man, it told I mean, you
could really see the differences just in the years and
in the level of lock in and how you guys finished.
You guys finished that season with under Casey winning the championship,
correct me beating the Lakers. Fox Sports Radio has the
best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of
(16:50):
our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot com and whin
the I Heart Radio app search f s R to
listen live. Something I love listening to you talk about
and reading about, especially when you when you were on
Coop's Michael Cooper's podcast, You're talking about the Bakers, straight
up Bakers, okay, and you go, you know you gonna
(17:13):
you don't make it, You're gonna make me keep it real.
I hope you got one of them button that you
can make it my words, because I've been I've been
really Lucive've been very solid here, you know, even say yeah, yeah, yeah,
that's all good, and it's all good. Man. I just
want to know where the hate came from. Why. I mean,
I know the rivalry, I get it, but what what
was it? Was there an exciting incident Max that like
(17:35):
y'all was like, oh, man, them dudes on the l
A man, f them, Tragic Johnson, James Worthy, what happened?
What was it? That was it? That was it? They
were Hollywood and we just did not like that, you know,
we were we were the hard working team and you
and Magic smiling all the time and ship that just
(17:56):
really arked our players, and we just didn't. We just
didn't like it. And because of that, I mean, we
just took and I think one of the things you
look at most of their players, most of the players
on the Lakers were drafted and went to college as
high prospects. You know, Kareem did, one of the all
(18:16):
time greats, Magic, James Worthy, Cooper, all these guys right
now we're and you look at most of the guys
who were on the Celtics. Larry Brewer went to Indiana State.
I went to U and see Charlotte. Robert Parrish went
to Sitting Therey mL Carr went to Guilford. So we
had all these guys who are going to smaller schools,
(18:38):
and I think because of that, they felt that much
more threatened by you know, those those big time, big
time name players that you played damn. You had Pat
Riley over there, and that was I just talked to
Pat when we played the uh we're playing Miami, and
I mentioned something to him and had him laughing now
because he walked out of the room and a back
(19:01):
and Alonzo Morning walked out first, and Alonzo's Frat, you know,
I'm the mega. He walked out first, and I said,
what's up, Frat, you know, talked to him and then
right after that here comes out the room. He walks
out pat Riley, and I said, Pat, what's up? He
does He looks at me, goes this, turns about like yo, man.
(19:21):
He said, man, I don't want to talk to you,
and I told him to stir. I said, Pat, you
one of my all times favorite stories was with you.
I was were playing the Lakers and there were three
guys on the bench over there for the Lakers. One
of them his name was Larry Spriggs. I think the
Sprigs is over there talking a bunch of ships. The
whole time, him and his boys three of Max, Well,
(19:43):
you ain't ship, You ain't this, you ain't that. I
was like, okay, all right. So the ball goes alabounas
near pat Riley and I'm the designated guy taking the
ball out of battles. So the referee is about to
hit me the basketball and I said, I said, hold
a minute. The reph we kind of looked at me,
like what you're talking about? Just hold up a minute?
(20:03):
Pass that beside me, I said, Pat, get your get
your button ready here, I said, give me a favor.
Put when the motherfucker's in down there, does you get
in the game. Spriggs comes in, I'll score on him.
I'll score a couple of baskets. You know. Pat takes
(20:24):
him out before he goes out. I'm like, next time,
real people and real players out here working working hard.
Maybe you shut your damn mouthing over there. He went
over there and sat down and it was quiet. Pat
Riley said something to me was so so funny, you know,
I told him the story, said, I know Springs gave
(20:44):
you work over there. I'm like, man, then if fundlet's
be Spreings gonna put their springs up, we come on, man,
you're serious. That was worth funny moments. One thing about
you know the Lakers who they were, And now I
got this big thing going back and forth with James
Worthy and you know where we're we're kind of bickering
(21:07):
in the in the news from time to time, and uh,
James Worthy is almost like, uh, when everybody said anybody
stept Trump, James Worthy is anybody except the self. So
so I'm saying I said that James Worthy, I said
some I think it was. One of the reporters asked
(21:29):
me a question, so what do you how do you
feel about the Lakers? I said, well, I said, you
know right now to where we're playing. I said, you
know what, and James this is James Worthy. I said, uh,
you know, when we win the championship this year, I
want you. They always said we're tied together. I said,
tell me how, I asked Mills since I passed by
it was gross and James Worthy said, damn, that was
(21:54):
out with. James Worth said, well, Leasie could get some original,
some something he could said original. I'm like, you can't
say nothing no more original than that. The kind of
my ass smell is a passing value. So they showed
James Worthy. I guess after uh, after Golden State beat us,
(22:14):
you see James Worthy has a picture James Worthy, and
he is he's mocking the Celtics by doing the same
thing that Steph Curry did and said good night Celtics,
like and that's anybody except the Celtics, and you know,
just doesn't want so we keep going back and forth.
(22:35):
And but you know, he told me one of the
most interesting stories. She said, Max, I really liked you.
I really loved corn bread. He said. I was in college.
You know, you were in college and you would see Charlotte.
He was from Gastonia, which is about twenty miles away,
and we were playing that night. We're playing Robert Parish
(22:55):
sitting there university and that was a big We were
the two top Independence and said me and Robert Pashil go.
He said, man, you don't know. I was in the
front row of that game watching you guys. He said,
I love watching you play. So it was just kind
of strange for him to say something that was actually positive,
you know, when it came to me or about the Celtics.
(23:16):
But you know, he I liked you, actually like James Worthy.
You know, he's one of the greatest players to ever
to play the game. I wouldn't say that out loud
for him or anybody else I norm on your podcast,
but you know that that's that's just the truth. They
had a great team. Kareem was my favorite player of
all time. I wore number thirty three in college because
and I told this to Kareem, I said, you're my
(23:38):
favorite player. And I wore the number thirt three in college.
And when I got to the Celtics, I wanted thirty three.
But there was a guy, Steve Gibirsky, who wore the number,
and then they gave me thirty and then it's he
cut that he got cut. But I was like, they said,
you want to change numbers like now, No, they know
what happens. Larry Bird comes in and gets thirty three,
(24:00):
so I probably would have had to change that number. Anyway,
I noticed you you wore several different numbers during your
NBA career. Correct was there any rhyme? I mean, I
know the obvious with Kareem and then Bird, but what
about the other numbers. Were there any rhymo reasons behind that?
Or you like the numb When I was with the Celtics,
I wore the number thirty. That's the first number that
gave me. And then mL car we got him um
(24:22):
as a free agent, and he wore number thirty and
asked me could he have that number? And I'm like, man,
I just have to have a number. So I gave
me thirty one, and uh, you know, I end up
make taking that to the rafters and all that. But
then I went to the Clippers, I think I wore
I see the nineteen, and then I think my last
year after with the Rockets, I wore eighteen. And that
(24:43):
there was no rhyme of reason. A jersey was a
jersey to me back then, and just to have one
on your back was cool. Yeah. In eighty four, you you, um,
you guys wanted title that. I think you got hurt
and got traded in the same year. Talk a little
bit about it was a little controversial exit. UM Now,
I kind of wanted to hear in your words what
happened with that scenario as far as you being traded
(25:06):
and the way you exited Boston. UM. In nineteen eighty
four when the championship UH seventh game here in Boston,
uh eight and eight. I had in that final game
against your guy James Worthy when points were points were
premium at that time, and end up winning the game,
(25:28):
leading the team and scoring let him in I think
assists in that game. The big time thing for me.
It was even you know, for me, although I was
the final's MVP and eighty one that was just that
was just as good, if not better, beating the Lakers
in that way. The very next year we win the championship,
I came back and I had a monists tear in
(25:49):
my knee and couldn't in the middle of the season
and couldn't come back, and Kevin McHale started and he
had the game of fifty six points and I knew
that was the last game that I was gonna be
starting with the Sultans and they were looking to trade
me then. The only thing about it, I was just
upset because I just wanted them to wish me the
(26:11):
same kind of luck. We had won two championships together.
I've done so many things for this team, and at
the end of the day they to leave in that
manner like, you know, like I was a bad guy.
And it's really always strange because you know, the year
the next year, eighty five, when I couldn't come back,
I was the person that they blamed essentially for losing
(26:33):
the championship because I couldn't come back from the injury.
And I was like, man, how good was I If
you had Robert Parrish, if you had Kevin mckill, if
you had Larry Bird, and you have Dennis Johnson, you
had four Hall of Famers, But you blame me for,
you know, losing the championship. So it told me my
(26:54):
value to the team. So when I finally left, I
just said it was it was it was animosity. I
just wanted to leave and I just wanted them to
wish me luck, and and they traded me for Bill Walton,
and Bill came in and played for a year. They
won the championship the next year, and I went to
the Clippers, and you know, I was, I was. I
(27:15):
was happy about leaving. I was stupid about leaving, though,
because I left a lot of money on the table. Um,
you know, the money I was the guy, uh you
know by being with the Celtics that year. Uh my
shoe deal essentially was you know, went from a hundred
and fifty thousand dollars a year from pony to almost
having to buy some damn shoes. So it was it
(27:40):
was just it was just kind of strange. But but
I just left in haste because I was just very
I was just piste off at the organization because um,
I guess my Um they the boss that they checked
to me was my credibility and who I was us
as a person. You never checked that during the times
(28:03):
we want so when I got hurt, how can you check?
And that's why I'm very seldom I'm ever you ever
going to hear me say anything about a player being
hurt and questioning what he can do, because the player
is the only one that knows his body. You know,
they can say you're ready and do all this other stuff,
but at the end of the day, it's the player
(28:23):
that's going to make that decision. And and that's why,
you know, really pissed me off about that when I
left the weather and went to the Clippers. Yeah. And
these stories that you're talking about, and a bunch of
other good stuff are all in your book. If these
walls could talk what you dropped in December correct and
talk about the timing of the book. Um, what sort
(28:45):
of inspired you to write it and to address some
of this stuff into and to really share a lot
of untold, absolutely hilarious stories about your time in the league. Well,
I mean it was it just seemed like it was
time to me. I remember having a bunch of stories,
and I'm always doing public speaking, and somebody came to
me and said, yeah, man, I need you to talk
(29:06):
about you know, this and that and what happened. I said,
And then somebody approached me about writing the book. And
one of the stories, which you know I love and
that you probably want, was the story with your dad. Uh,
you know, me and Marcus and and Franklin net was
were playing woman Frankly, it was were playing pool in
Los Angeles and your dad. Your dad walks in and
(29:29):
you know, he's like, yeah, I can shoot, I can shoot.
Me and frankl way shooting and you know, we're relatively quiet.
So your dad comes in and he saw a shooting
knocking down balls and I said, frank Franklin, I said,
you know, let me test Marcus right here. Let me see.
And I started yelling. I said, you know, while he's
trying to shoot. I said, oh, and you love this.
I said, you can't play that, niggapool. Can't you play that?
(29:52):
You're playing that? U c l A. You know quiet.
Everybody has to be the wine and cheese crown. Oh yeah,
you you you're the cheese crown. Brother. I start yelling
at it man that brother couldn't make a But your
dad told that, and I forgot about the story. But
(30:13):
the author went and told your dad about asked your
dad about, you know, when I played with the clippers,
and he remembered he told the story, and the author
was telling the story and then we're about to put
it in the book. And then that the author that
that people are so politically correct now. They were like, oh,
we can't use that word. Uh nika pole, we can't
(30:35):
use that. I said, I said, well, what word are
you gonna use? Well, how about we use African American.
I'm like, what the hell I think that was the
I don't think that was gonna scare my man. So no,
we said, I'll tell you what we can do. You
can use in I g and you know, let somebody's
imagineation go. But we were we're not taking that word.
(30:57):
That that was. That was the crusts of it. And
your dad was so funny when he told that story.
And uh, when the guy told me about it what
Marcus had said, he said, I was intelligent, I wasn't funny.
I was funny. I was a great player. And it
was it really was built up. But then when he
told me the story about the fool game that I forgot,
I was like, damn, that's right. We did have Marcus Johnson.
(31:21):
They're playing pool, and he was so funny because he
got he just got round. You know, you know, your
dad is cool calling McCay. He he might be one
of the coolest dudes with you know, I'm not sure.
There's just Denzel and then your day, your dad's up
there something like cool. But when he heard me talking
(31:43):
about that, yelling at to the top of my lunch, oh,
you can't play that, niggabool when I'm yelling at you
can't play that because and he just bust out. So
that was a great story that I think that we
had in the book. And there were many stories that
I end up putting in the book that were really good.
One of the most fascinating ones I think was talking
(32:03):
to my um. The guy asked me about my family. Initially,
I said, man, with a great story. I ended up
doing a girl that had that had been within college
forty years ago to sit me. Uh sent me a
leather a text message saying, well, four years ago I
wrote your leather and I told you I had your
(32:24):
daughter that that woman has now found me, and um,
I told her you were her dad, And I didn't
think that was possible because you know, I knew who
this woman was and what was going on in life.
So I end up I end up taking the paternity test.
Turnity test came back zero point zero point zero. So
I told her, you know, I don't know, it's not true.
(32:46):
You know it's true. You know, you know I was
just the best candidate. So yeah, anyway, I'm telling my
I'm talking to my sister, Lisa. I said, Lisa, I
just want to let you know I took a fraternity test,
and without sing to beat, my sister said, oh, so
you can find out who your real father is. I'm like,
(33:06):
that's another candidate. That's another candid worm. Yeah, that one
when I was talking about and uh, it made me
made me going to the process now going back and
found out I was not I was not born Cedric Maxwell.
I was Centric, folks, That's who I was. I was
born out of way lock. My dad was the Ford
(33:29):
small and my mom just kind of glossed over and
she ended up married Manny Maxwell, who was in the military,
and Manny took us took me around the world, took
me Hawaii, all over the places places he was stationed,
and gave me his name. And but they never told
me until I did not officially here until I was
about sixty years old, that my my cousin, who was
(33:51):
ten years older than me and ten years younger than
my mom, finally said, yeah, I remember you remember with
your little snotty nosed you was Cedric Folks at the time.
And that's the first time ever heard that my name
was different. Found out that I had a brother who
was also six sight. So my life has really been
a kaleidoscope here, I say, in the last five or
(34:14):
six years, that's deep. What is it like? I wanted
to ask you this specifically, what is it like growing
up having grown up in Kinston, North Carolina. We have
a couple of NBA players, uh, Jerry Stackhouse, Brandon Ingram,
what's in the water down there? And what was life
like growing up in the area that you did in Kinston,
North Carolina. Well, I think that's really strange because you
(34:37):
say that and there were there were they say that,
you know, they got the Emmy for there was a
documentary on um there's something in the Water the story
about Kinston, North Carolina and they got the Emmy for
it was myself in per capita, Kinston, North Carolina has
had more professional basketball players and even players are round
(35:00):
that uh than any other place maybe in the world.
I mean the place only has about thirty thou or
twenty five thousand people. Now for the last I said,
the last forty years has always had somebody in the NBA,
if not one, if not to I mean Um Bullock
who played with Dallas, he's actually he's actually from Kingston.
(35:22):
Jerry Stackhouse was from Kingston, and then Ingram from Kinston.
Charles Shackelford who played in the league is from Kingston.
Mitchell Wiggins who is right outside of Kingston. Uh. You know,
so there are so many players that played during the
era and it's just it's a hotbed of basketball essentially.
(35:43):
That's what we did. You know, we we played ball
all the time and that was a way to get out.
I was the first one that you know, got out,
went to UNC Charlotte and then eventually made it to
the Celtics, and then after that the preceding years, we've
always had a player, uh this come out of Kilston
has played major commins basketball, and it eventually got itself
(36:05):
into the pros very Dope, very dope area of the country.
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox sports
Radio dot com and within the I Heart Radio app.
Search f s R to listen live. UM fast forwarding
really quickly to the contemporary times, today's game. Um, you
(36:28):
you recently and the reason it's funny how you came
up because I was showing my dad the video of
you g P and Draymond Hemond. Hey you were you
went on the mike, Hey because I told you, because
I said I wanted to, and then you walked away.
So I showed my dad. Dad, he was like, let
me hit him, my man, get him on your podcast.
But I wanted to just talk to you about the
(36:49):
core of those comments that Draymond made, kind of in
a larger scale, talking about today's game and the physicality
of today's game and why today's player like a Draymond Green,
has this misprocessing. You wouldn't he wasn't about that action
back in the day, as I told me. But I
asked his daddy because Daddy, if he saw me play. Um,
(37:10):
Draymond Green is a is a central part of what
they do in Golden State, and there are times when
he's more of an irritant, uh you know. And he
was self in the first game. In the second game,
he was just playing bullet ball. He was sucking guys
down quickly, falling on people, falling on people. Yeah, I mean,
just hold on the men, it's like. And then when
(37:32):
I saw Gary Payton later on, and I just walked
up to Gary and I said, Gary, let me say
something about your boy, uh you know, and he said,
what I said, let me day sit in Draymond ring
during the eighties, he've been knocked the funk out. That's
what would have happened. And so I didn't know it
(37:52):
was being well, I kind of knew it was, but
I thought they were gonna beat it out when I
said and I guess it got back to Draymond and
Draymond and took a fence Cerdric Maxwell said they would
knock me out, and dad that that, you know, they
would punch me in the mouth. And he he was
talking about but I've polled almost every player that I
played with in the eighties. I could ask your dad
(38:12):
right now with the stuff that happened that Draymond Green did.
It's not like these are just facts, bro, that's all
it is. I'm not hating on him. These just facts
the matter that I know. He and he mentioned he said, well,
maybe Bill Lambierre wouldn't lock me up. No, Bill Lambier
got blasted in Boston Garden by Robert Parrish. And then
he said the one thing he said, well, you just
(38:34):
act like people in the eighties were going around punching people.
Well they were, That's how That's how I was. And
and I did a show with Isaiah Thomas and I said,
I'm looking at Isaiah, I'm saying and I went and
I told him later and I said, how do you
think you got them stitches across your eye? Right there?
That was a Karl Malone elbow. And then it was
(38:56):
for no reason other than you would come to the
basket call him a little took you out? Did they
throw called alone out that game? Probably didn't. I behave
him a technical and you you move on. But that's
the way the game was played. And I didn't. I
wasn't trying to offend him. I was just stating the
fact of how the game was played, and I said
it during the eighties, this what would have happened. And
(39:18):
then later on Dreymond came back at me and he
was like, I was talking to Garrett Payton maybe two
days after that, and Draymond made at the point of
coming over and getting in our conversation. I was walking
out and I'm talking to Gary, and Draymond walks over
and says, you're gonna be talking to Garrett Paye. You
don't be talking to people right now who'll be talking
(39:39):
about me. You will be saying that you know you
protect me, GP, you protect me, and g P looking like, dude,
you need to be protected like and I'm like, And
then at that point I said, Draymond, I'm standing right here,
you need to talk to me, and he's I don't
want to talk to you, and then I just I'll
walk out and that This is what I said. The guys,
my witness, your dad would love this because I said,
(40:01):
you know what I said, Gary, I said, let me
get the funk out of here right now before something happened.
He's gonna still make thirty million. I ain't making that
kind of money. So I said, I gotta protect myself
on the back side and walked out and Draymond and
that later on he came out kind of right after me,
(40:21):
and we talked for a minute. I said, Raymond, I'm
not hating on you said, well, be a man of
your word. Be a man of your word. You you
said that you said that somebody was gonna punch me
the mouth. That ain't what I said. I said, somebody
in the eighties would knock you the funk out. That's
what That's what I said. But I didn't want to
inflame it anymore. I said, I am a man about
(40:43):
my work. And finally at the end of us said, look,
I happened to like you. I like what you did,
but you know, are we good? And we shook hands
and we walked off. But you know, he's talked about it,
and people talked about it. Matter of fact that you
loved that. I think it was on YouTube and had
almost two million view views when he came to that one.
(41:07):
I wasn't meaning anything back, but it just happened, Yeah,
I thought, you know, I get into it all the
time with with folks on Twitter and just in the
arguments the younger generation when they talk about the eighties
and they call the players from the eighties plumbers and
repair men, and they just disrespect Like it's one thing
to say things about who you think is better, who
is nice, and who ain't. But then when you start
(41:28):
universally disrespecting a whole generation of basketball players, that basically
set the tone and foundation for what's going on in
today's NBA. That's where I take umbrage. Well, see that's
what and that's the one thing I did say to Draymond.
Draymond said, um he said that, you know, during the eighties,
if you got kicked out of the game, you'd only
(41:49):
had you've only been fined about two dollars. Well, that
that's a that's a mockery. I said, you'n gonna say
stuff like that. And I said, and I said, even now,
I said, for Draymond Green to say that that was
offensive to anybody I played with and anybody around me
during that time. And I said, because he makes he
made that third he makes that thirty million dollars a
(42:11):
year because he was he got on my shoulders and
everybody around me like the people I stepped on their shoulders,
So it was disrespectful. The last point I made to
him or anybody who want to hear that. I said,
it's only been thirty two now, maybe thirty three guys
who have been found m VP, and damnn, I'm one
of them. So I'm not one of these these flies
that you're going. Well, like he had talked to Charles Barkley,
(42:34):
you ain't one nothing you he did nothing that that Well,
you can't say that to me when it comes to
to my game. He did say something like, well, the
guys during the eighties, they would have had to increase
their skill level. Well, their skill levels were really good.
You probably would have had to increase your skill level
to play with all the hand checking. Step as great
(42:55):
as he is during the eighties. I think maybe because
its been slowed down just a little bit because people
have been able to put hands on it and and
kind of push him away. Right now, you can't touch
you guys, because you can't touch you guys. The way
he shoots the basketball almost impossible to guard. Yeah, well,
is there if there's a player that you could compare
(43:16):
Steph Curry too from your error or before that era,
maybe in the A B A days when they had
a three pointer. I don't know, Maybe there's a guy
that just the jumper and the ability just to move
so well without the ball and then go off the bounce.
Have you seen anything like it Max before? The only
guys I know that maybe shot like that was Freddy
(43:37):
Downtown Brown who would come off these picks and long
distance knocking down jump shots, moved well without the basketball.
But but there's nobody really likes there. And and the
thing that I admire about him, I said, only you
know his great DESI when you think about Steph Curry,
only two guys that I know have changed the game,
(43:58):
and the game had to be changed, see, you know,
kind of fit them fit them in. One of them
was Worth Chamberling. They changed the rules. He couldn't be
in the lane, They made the lanes bigger, they did this.
The other one, it's Steph Curry with his ability to
knock down trades. And you see, guys, right now, you
you've been around ball enough that you you you have
an understanding that guys who can't even fucking shoot, Now
(44:20):
that's the first thing to do, run up to the
three point life so they can give one of these
size and all this stuff from these shoot threes. It's
not it. Steph Curry is is a unique individual, and
he is broad in the game out in a way
that I can't even imagine. I only hardly understand the
game anymore, your dad. A lot of people in the
eighties don't understand the game anymore because instead of taking
(44:41):
a layout, you're right under the basket, you flinged up
all out to the two or three points shoot. And
I mean, I'd rather just give me a solid too
sometimes then looking for three. But the game has changed
in that way. I understand that I'm not hating on it,
but I do understand this change. But in some ways
don't know if it's changed for the for the better,
(45:02):
because nobody is like Steph Curry shot the basketball. Yeah,
And when we say like the game has changed for
the better or for the worst, I think the game
now the emphasis is more about basketball entertainment. It's more
about the marketing aspect. It's more about preserving guys, keeping
guys healthy, making sure that the stars are able to
play these dates. You know what I mean. Because so
(45:23):
it's less about look, the emphasis on competition. Sure, these
guys are fighting for the championships that they win. They
earned this stuff. They're busting their butt. But the league
as a whole, it seems like the emphasis you change.
If you remember early in the season, Marcus Smart dove
on the ball playing against the Warriors, Marcus Smart dove
Steph Curry kind of didn't dive, and then Steph gets hurt.
But everybody's just calling Marcus Smarter dirty player basically for
(45:46):
playing hard. Talk about though, just this this basketball entertainment aspect, Max,
do you understand it, like like the the globalization of
the game that started with David Stern and incorporating all
the Europeans in and now you have a game that's
played at a fast pace, a lot of threes, very
little physicality on the inside. Just talk a little bit
(46:07):
about that evolution and and why would it be bad
for basketball? Like, why isn't this great for the game?
Without any type of pushback, Well, I think because you
said entertainment, the aesthetics of shooting the threes. Now the
the the actions that go along with it. Um, you
know the bang you get for your buck when Steph
(46:28):
Curry comes down the steps back behind the line and
people get a chance and you know the gas and
you know when that ball goes in. Uh, the game
has changed. And he said, then they're trying to preserve that.
You know, you see the longevity of a guy's career now,
you know when you see Lebron James getting up to
twenty twenty years and still dropping, you know, almost thirty
(46:49):
points a game, you know that that was unheard of
you When me and your father played, it was like
if you got ten years in the league plus you
that was a great rear. Now essentially you're in your
prime because the physicality isn't there, and the workload isn't there.
The fact that right now teams are teams really uh
(47:12):
they baby their players and and too in a good way.
And the fact that they have you know, training resident regiments.
Sabella food is better. Uh. You know during our time
we flew commercial uh so, and we stayed at a
horrible hotels that I can't believe. There's a hotel right
now that's still out there in l A that we
used to stay at. That was the Marriott, their port
(47:34):
Marriott is still out the Essentially, what would happen. You
would come, we would play Seattle, uh, and then fly
in the l A playing that playing on the next day,
you get to l A, you get to the hotel
and they tell you your room ain't red. It's like
one of them, like, really, we're an NBA team a room. No,
(47:55):
your room is not ready. It won't be ready until
two o'clock till people check out. Whereas now you go
to the Rich Carlton, you go to the Four Seasons,
your room is always ready. And the just the the
lifestyle of the players lying on their own plane is different.
Obviously the money is different. It's just so many things
(48:16):
that are different about the game. But one thing you
do realize that the game is one thing about It
is about putting the ball in the hole and about
and that will that probably would never change. Yeah, no
it won't. Man. I like to finish up just talking
about these Celtics, uh, this year's team a little bit
and just what from your vantage point, because I as
(48:36):
I you know, obviously when it started to where it's come,
unbelievable evolution, unbelievable improvement on this team. He may has
just totally just grabbed ahold of the reins and really
put his imprint on on the identity of this crew.
But I think one of the things that stood out
for me, and you can chime in on this without
(48:57):
a traditional PG moving forward, is this Can the Celtics
get over the hump without having that type of traditional
point guard? Yeah, I think they can, and I think
the game has changed somebody to think about. Um, you
know all the guys you talked about who are playing
right now, and you you look at them, you're going
(49:20):
the game is more about the defensive pressure if you're
talking about staying out on on the pain. Um, I
look at the Celtic team right now. I'm excited because
they're young. You've got Jalen Brown who was under contract,
you got Tatum who was under contract, Marcus Uh, Rob Williams.
So the the core unit of guys are better, but
(49:41):
they're gonna have to add some more pieces, uh to compete.
Now you say that, and you're looking at going there
were only two games away from winning the World Championship.
They were essentially a quarter away from, you know, and
maybe a couple of minutes away from being up three
one against Golden State in the in the to say
it was a fourth game here in Boston. So I
(50:02):
don't think you're going to really you don't want to
mess it up. But you look at the league. The
league has always changing, It's always evolving world World, Kyrie
Irving World, Real League end up at Uh, you know
that's gonna be That's gonna be a huge question. I
heard people say this today and man, that would be fascinating.
Somebody said, well, maybe Celtics might be able to get
(50:23):
Kyle Kuzma uh from Washington, because I think what they
need is another score. And one thing you saw with
the Celtics, their bitch really kind of let them down
in the in the finals, Jordan's pool consistently outscored the
Celtic bitch. H Grant Williards who have been really who
have played really well, did not have a good finals. Uh.
(50:45):
You know, Pritchard did not have a good finals. I
think you look at Derek Quite who had a great
game one and in the game too, but after that
he kind of fell off the slide. So the Celtics need,
uh need more. But you got one of the five
best players in the league when you're talking about uh
(51:06):
Tatum uh and Brown is not far behind him. You
have a great coach, you have a great system, you
have a great organization, but you know you're always gonna
have to tweak it a little bit and uh fine
tune this thing if you're going to win the win
the championship, because obviously you know it's not promise. I
always tell the story about Dan Marino, the great football player,
(51:28):
how he went to the Super Bowl, maybe it was second,
first or second year planning in NFL, and uh, like
he never made it back again. And those things happen,
and you know, maybe maybe those I don't think that's
gonna happen to the Celtics, but I think they're going
to happen. Have to tweak their their team some to
(51:48):
find some other guys who want to be able to
score the basketball. Thing I love about the Warriors just
watching the way they moved the ball, man, you know
that that was that was amazing to me to watched
him come off to those picks and you know, the
ball never stopped. And with the Celtics, several times Jason
Tatum was in a predicament where he had the ball
(52:09):
and and that was one of that was the Achilles
here Jason Tatum and they in in the playoffs this year.
Broker record, Uh, he had a hundred turnovers. A hundred
turnovers for one person. That's a lot of turnovers when
you think about you know, you played. I think he
played fourteen twenty four games. So you do the math.
(52:33):
How much says that about turning over the game? Five? Two?
Over the game and you you're not gonna win, you know,
at that pace if you turn over. So he has
to get better at that position. Yeah, but I definitely
feel like he's gonna he's definitely the top five player
and he's gonna end up being, you know, one of
these guys that we're gonna, you know, talk about and
(52:53):
holding high esteem. As far as in the history of
the league, I haven't seen a young guy. I love
his pois. Um That's that's the one thing I've always said.
He's fearless to me. I mean, sure he played bad
and he turned it over, but you know it wasn't
for a lack of effort, or it wasn't for a
lack of trying. Um Man, Max, this conversation has been awesome,
my man. I truly appreciate you coming through. Um the
(53:16):
book is out. If these walls could talk and you
you're still on Celtics broadcast right the radio? Yeah, I've been.
I've been broadcasting for the Selviic. This is my twenties
six year doing radio for the Selving. So I've been
around a long time to see a lot of different
things happened, and I think probably losing to the Goost
and State Warriors and and to um uh Steph watching
(53:39):
what he did and Draymond watching what he did probably
was one of the most disappointing times. So I think
I've been around. Yeah, well, brother, I appreciate you, and
good luck moving forward. Everybody out there, go buy the book.
You won't to be disappointed, Ladies and gentlemen. Cedric Maxwell,
I alright, my brother, thanks for having me
This is kJ Live with Chris john Sallie and Chris
is having conversations with influencers in the sports world and
entertainment in a strain. Now here's Chris Johnson. You're now
tuned in to kJ lock. Today's guest on the show,
(00:25):
there's a two time NBA champion for the Boston Celtics.
He was named NBA Finals MVP in He now works
as a radio analyst for those same Celtics. Ladies and gentlemen,
let's welcome in NBA legend Cedric Maxwell to the show.
What's happening to Maxe? Well, thank you man for having me?
(00:46):
You did? You left with that one value a partner.
I played with your daddy That would drive me to go.
That was the that was like at the end of
all that playing with the Clippers. I I enjoyed him.
You know, we battled so much when your dad played
with the he was there with Milwaukee, and then all
of a sudden we both got to be a little
bit older and we got traded away from our prospective
(01:08):
teams and ended up in the l A that day
in l A with the Clippers, and we had so
much fun. The only thing I laughed about is. I
told him, I said, here I was. Every time they
introduced your dad uh as the Clippers. Everybody, Yeah, Marcus,
every time they introduced me, go back to bosting your pomb.
(01:28):
We hate you here. So every city I played in
that year, I got booed, except when I came to Boston. Funny,
that's funny. L a fan cup of fans got their
nerve trying to bull a Boston god. They claimed to
hate the Lakers. So I don't understand how they were
booing you, But I guess so, man, I guess that's
how it's going down back then in the eighties. Uh,
talk to me about though Donald Sterling's Clippers. What it
(01:52):
was like during that era. My dad's been on the
show man here talking about y'all was practicing. I would,
you know, Pomona understanding Motel sixes and it was it
wasn't really on that level, Yeah it was. It was.
It was from the NBA. It was third world when
you think about playing in the NBA all the luxuries
that kind of go along with it. That for us
(02:15):
was was kind of crazy. But I think we enjoyed it.
You know, we had a bunch of veteran guys who
came there all of a sudden, we were we basically
surrounded Derek Smith. At that time, it was gonna be
a buddy superstar in the league. And and then he
got hurt and the first i think first five games
of the season. We were in the first five games
(02:35):
and uh, you know, we're off to a good start.
And then everybody got hurt and you had that Clipper,
that Clipper jinks, and uh, we never we never recovered again.
It was it was fun being out there. It was
really different from me because you know, obviously playing in
championship games with the Celtics. Remember when one called in particular,
I'm playing and and and the referee something happened and
(02:59):
I got fouled and I was like, you know, and
I looked at him. He's like, you're not with us
any more. And the Clippers you're not getting that damn call.
There's no way you're getting that call. So so it
was really strange kind of being out there, being in
that environment and trying to understand the nature and how
really the game changed from being with the Celtics a contender,
(03:22):
to somebody with the Clippers, who were pretenders at the time. Yeah,
and you, I mean the contrast and the organization's probably
was a show shock for you. I saw that you
had moved out to Palace Verdes and and one of
the big things for you when you're in l A.
Was the commute. The drive, I mean two hours to
two hours from just talk a little bit about that
first kind of year and getting acclimated to the l A.
(03:43):
C that that was that was really strange. We moved
Don Cheney, who was the head coach at that time, Um,
he decided he he left out in Palace version said,
my wife used to babysitter's kids and they were really
good ends and found a great house out in Palace Verties.
But he said, the commute, it was essentially it was
(04:06):
gonna be maybe about almost an hour going into the
sports arena, then an hour back, and like on a
game day, essentially it was about four about a four
hour drive on the road. And uh, it was that
was that was diff But it was one thing about it,
I always said after the game, it was peaceful. It
(04:26):
gave me a chance to kind of detox a little bit.
When you played in the game. Sometimes when you live
really near you're you know, you're still pumped up. Well
that gave me a chance to it just kind of
wrapped my mind around what happened and detox and get
back home and and there was nothing like living out
in Palace Verdes. Essentially I had a house that looked
out onto the Pacific Ocean and looked out on h
(04:50):
I could see Catalina, So it was it was. It
was a great place to stay, and it's one of
these places I wish I had sold at that time.
It was a ranch, three bedroom. We got it for
three hundred and ninety five thousand dollars and uh, the
Pacific Ocean was our backyard. So now I don't know
(05:12):
if it's three million or yeah, it was. It was
at the end of a dead in street, so it
was like we were on the hillside and there was
nothing in front us, so all you could see was
the ocean. So it was a great view. But it
was again just trying to understand l A and then
trying to understand basically like being in l A. I
(05:35):
think the biggest thing was the adjustment to um being
famous or not famous, because essentially when you went out
to l A, I remember, you know, back east, I
go someplace. Hey, sire, that's why you doing. But then
got out the l A. It was like people walking
back me like, oh wait a minute here, hey, But
I learned that everybody was the start in Hollywood, you know,
(05:57):
from the from the person parking the cars deserving your
food that it was only a few people out there
to stop traffic. And I think Magic was one of
them at that time. So it was a different environment
for me. Yeah, you and you probably were on the
minds of a lot of l A fans from your
Boston Celtics years. I mean, the greatest rivalry in sports
in my opinion, Celtics verse Lakers, and you were a
(06:19):
part of that, like the core run um during the eighties.
But but what I think a lot of people don't
realize is before Larry Bird was drafted to the team
or you know, you were the lead starting small forward
average nineteen, a game Bird comes in, talk about what
it took for you to sacrifice and basically get in
(06:42):
where you fit in if you will, with the Celtics
team and or as opposed to kind of you know, hey, man,
I this you know I want to play you know,
Average nineteen the game I deserved this you know, you
had you had another you had the opportunity to take
that standpoint. Max, talk about why you decided to work
with them. Well, I think that you you you understand
(07:02):
what greatness is, and you don't fight city Hall. You
know you're fit. You fit in Uh yeah, average nineteen
and ten. The year before Larry came. And you know,
I didn't think I was a big cheese. And Larry
came the first day of practice and and you know,
I'm looking at him. I'm you know, and I'm thinking,
and I was a prejudice of black player, so I
(07:22):
hadn't seen that many white guys could play. So you
walked over to the court and I remember doing like
this great white hope. I'm thinking, to my mind, okay,
this is its out to be a lay up. And
I knocked down a couple of shots against him. Okay,
this is pretty easy. But then he started knocking on
a couple of shots to me, on me, and then
I get up closer and closer. Man, I'm sweating. By
(07:45):
the end of the practice. Man, he's still draining shots.
I'm like, get to the first black person I can see,
and I say, you know what, that fucking white guy
can play right there. That's that was in my mind set.
So I'm like, hey, so I gotta is to see
you know, really greatness and that. And then it was like,
you know, at that that point, I understood that my
(08:08):
game complimented his game and vice versa, and that you know,
we were He was an inside I was an inside player,
he was an outside player. You know. I was gonna
make it easier for him. He was gonna make it
easier for me, and um, you know, just trying to
use your smarts. And and I remember Ricky Davis watching
him playing when Lebron came in. Yeah, you're not gonna
(08:30):
you're you're not gonna win that battle, Ricky. There, I
don't care what you do. You don't have to work
in that environment. And uh, Larry Burger coming in, you know,
it was his team, you know, and and and the
way they paid him where he came in, how he
was playing. So it was it was an opportunity for
me to adjust my game. And I had to adjust
my game, probably most more than most, because not only
(08:52):
did we get one white player, you know, Larry Burbet, Damn,
we get Kevin McHale next, and we get probably Parish
and my shot still going down and down at that
But it was all about winning. We had the I
think we had the greatest front line maybe to ever
play in the game. And those four and and us
four guys that we have on with Louis and read
(09:14):
hour about Uh, put created that Big four? Right. It
was a draft I read you, you know, I started
off with the foreword and Robert Perris was breaking that
down on how you guys got together. Uh. I don't
think he gets enough credit for building it. And I
don't think that that's that that that Big four really
gets talked about enough in terms of in NBA history
(09:34):
and how it was formed and and then and the
effect and and the lasting effect it had on the game.
Because y'all always six eight between six eight and seven feet, right,
so six eight six, Kien sixtens seven feet and then
Larry at the small forward. But you and Kevin mckill,
I mean, you guys were pretty much interchangeable and sense
and it seemed like you would pick up, you would
(09:56):
take the defensive matchup on the other end. Talk about
a little been about just changing your mindset from a
guy that's a nineteen and ten guys sacrificing your points
just to be able to look like say, hey I
got i got Bernard King on this series, or I'm
picking up doc in this series and just just totally
you know, gave it your all on that end. Well,
I didn't have a choice. That was the big thing.
(10:18):
Bill Fitch walked up to me the first day of
practice said I scored a couple of baskets. I was
laughing about something and pulled me to the side and
said it seems like a pretty smart guy. I'm like, yeah, okay,
where is this going? He goes, um, you know every
night you're gonna have to guard the toughest guy. I'm like,
whoa is a minute? You know, I'm I'm a lover,
(10:38):
I'm not not a not a fighter and uh but
he made it clear that look, if somebody has to
be sacrificed, if you have to say, if there's some
office that's gonna have to be sacrifice, it's gonna have
to be you. And now I didn't. I was reluctant,
but after a while I stought to embrace it and
think how could we win? What could I do to
(11:00):
make this team better? So, yeah, I had to guard
guys like your dad. Yeah, you know, guard Marcus and
you know, had to guard Burnard King and guys like that.
And it was tough because, you know, on one end
they were trying to guard Larry and then Larry would
score on them, but he and but Larry wouldn't guard
him on the other end, so they'd all be piste
(11:20):
off by the time they got back down to the
office of me and and they want to take it
out on me, like dude, look, hey, hey, why don't
you take it out a little? And I remember one
time in particular, Larry was standing beside Bernard King and
he said switch Switch. I'm like, well, no, you're standing
right there. You could you could you take him for
a minute? Those were those were you know, just times. Uh.
(11:43):
We got Robert Parrish and Kevin mckill all in one
fatal swoop Golden State Warriors um that year they had
the third pick in the draft, subits had the first
pick in the traft, and Golden State came to me
and said, what we wanna do is we wanna we're
gonna give you I was a free agent. We're gonna
give you a big contract once you play with Golden State.
(12:06):
And when they have Robert Parrish. When you get this
kid McHale and that's gonna be our front line, I'm like, okay.
And then two days later I see where the Subtics
traded their first pick to the Golden State Warriors, and
Golden State took Joe Barry Carroll and we got Robert
Parrish and Kevin McKell to Holiday one of the biggest,
(12:27):
biggest lopsided deal maybe too ever. And I like Joe
Berry Carroll. You know, it was a good players. He
was serviceable, he was an All star, but he wasn't
going to be you know, Hall of Fame material like
Robert Parrish and Kevin McHale. So it was a outsided
deal that worked on the favor of the Celtics. After
you guys won the title one, you had a down
(12:51):
year the next year. I believe you guys got swept
by the Bucks. Don't tell me, but I had to
bring it up because I could when I used to
look at that throughout, know when I was younger, right,
and I'm like, how did this happen? I never understood
it that I saw a couple of lines in the
book where you said the player you guys basically or
the players were just kind of kind of grown weary
of Coach Fitch because of his hard grinding style. Just
(13:13):
talk about that year coach Fitches style and why you
know that collapse sort of happened. It was a sweep
to the Bucks, I mean unexpected after the championship. Well,
I think one of the things that happened was that
they said Bill Fitch was he was a taskmaster and
he he he didn't allow us to grow his men.
(13:35):
Because of that, I think there was a rebelliot uh
you know where Robert Parrish and Kevin McHale and Nate Archie,
but a lot of people just were tired. And give
you an example like say, for instance, if we were
at the man if we're a Madison Square Garden playing
the game. Bill Fitch had this rule early on that
if we're at the garden after the game team stayed overnight,
(13:56):
we would have to go back to the hotel, even
if you have free and waiting for you, uh you know,
at the garden after the game, you had to go
back to get on the team all the way back
and then come back if you want to. And and
guys got really you know, worry about that and and
there were a lot of things and and Bill just
did not let go. Instead of once you win the championship,
(14:21):
you've created you need to create more of an environment
and you grow as a coach and you let your
more leeway. Well, Bill didn't do that. He wanted to
maintain those same rules and didn't allow us to grow
as players. And I think that really took a toll
one how we performed. And it just almost seemed like
a mutiny that that that year that we lost to
(14:42):
the Bucks, just like we were probably we were a
better team, obviously a better team to get swelled, but
it was just so many guys just seemed to be
so piste off that we we just didn't play well
at all. And then and it reflected itself just as
far as like effort and lock in as far as
what coach is telling y'all and executing game plans kind
(15:02):
of like man, f this or wasn't it like that
type of prevalent attitude like f this stuff? We you know,
I'm not rolling coach. Yeah, And I think that that's
what you know, a lot of guys were. It was
a mattitude that they felt like it was it was
just too much form and because of that, I think
(15:22):
that it made us. It took us from being a
tight team to a bunch of individuals. And you know
in the NBA that you cannot win a series. You
can't win if you have the environment where you are splintering.
And that's what happened that year. We were splintered and
because of that we got what by the Bucks and
(15:43):
Bill Fitch ends up leaving and uh, Casey Jones comes
in and Casey Jones takes on the mantle and you know,
we go want to win another championship with the guys
who have versus electors. Who was the big biggest difference
between Kate coach Casey Jones and coach Bill Fitch. I
think that Casey was in the mindset he he he
had been a former player and nothing nothing wrong with
(16:06):
you know, you know guys who have ever played, because
great Great probably is one of the greatest. But coaches
we had, but I think that he had a sense
of what we needed and he really let go and
he allowed those guys to be individuals and and I
think they were They played harder for him and respected
the fact of what he gave us. And then those
(16:28):
players gave it back to him. So I think that's
why we want Oh man, it told I mean, you
could really see the differences just in the years and
in the level of lock in and how you guys finished.
You guys finished that season with under Casey winning the championship,
correct me beating the Lakers. Fox Sports Radio has the
best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of
(16:50):
our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot com and whin
the I Heart Radio app search f s R to
listen live. Something I love listening to you talk about
and reading about, especially when you when you were on
Coop's Michael Cooper's podcast, You're talking about the Bakers, straight
up Bakers, okay, and you go, you know you gonna
(17:13):
you don't make it, You're gonna make me keep it real.
I hope you got one of them button that you
can make it my words, because I've been I've been
really Lucive've been very solid here, you know, even say yeah, yeah, yeah,
that's all good, and it's all good. Man. I just
want to know where the hate came from. Why. I mean,
I know the rivalry, I get it, but what what
was it? Was there an exciting incident Max that like
(17:35):
y'all was like, oh, man, them dudes on the l
A man, f them, Tragic Johnson, James Worthy, what happened?
What was it? That was it? That was it? They
were Hollywood and we just did not like that, you know,
we were we were the hard working team and you
and Magic smiling all the time and ship that just
(17:56):
really arked our players, and we just didn't. We just
didn't like it. And because of that, I mean, we
just took and I think one of the things you
look at most of their players, most of the players
on the Lakers were drafted and went to college as
high prospects. You know, Kareem did, one of the all
(18:16):
time greats, Magic, James Worthy, Cooper, all these guys right
now we're and you look at most of the guys
who were on the Celtics. Larry Brewer went to Indiana State.
I went to U and see Charlotte. Robert Parrish went
to Sitting Therey mL Carr went to Guilford. So we
had all these guys who are going to smaller schools,
(18:38):
and I think because of that, they felt that much
more threatened by you know, those those big time, big
time name players that you played damn. You had Pat
Riley over there, and that was I just talked to
Pat when we played the uh we're playing Miami, and
I mentioned something to him and had him laughing now
because he walked out of the room and a back
(19:01):
and Alonzo Morning walked out first, and Alonzo's Frat, you know,
I'm the mega. He walked out first, and I said,
what's up, Frat, you know, talked to him and then
right after that here comes out the room. He walks
out pat Riley, and I said, Pat, what's up? He
does He looks at me, goes this, turns about like yo, man.
(19:21):
He said, man, I don't want to talk to you,
and I told him to stir. I said, Pat, you
one of my all times favorite stories was with you.
I was were playing the Lakers and there were three
guys on the bench over there for the Lakers. One
of them his name was Larry Spriggs. I think the
Sprigs is over there talking a bunch of ships. The
whole time, him and his boys three of Max, Well,
(19:43):
you ain't ship, You ain't this, you ain't that. I
was like, okay, all right. So the ball goes alabounas
near pat Riley and I'm the designated guy taking the
ball out of battles. So the referee is about to
hit me the basketball and I said, I said, hold
a minute. The reph we kind of looked at me,
like what you're talking about? Just hold up a minute?
(20:03):
Pass that beside me, I said, Pat, get your get
your button ready here, I said, give me a favor.
Put when the motherfucker's in down there, does you get
in the game. Spriggs comes in, I'll score on him.
I'll score a couple of baskets. You know. Pat takes
(20:24):
him out before he goes out. I'm like, next time,
real people and real players out here working working hard.
Maybe you shut your damn mouthing over there. He went
over there and sat down and it was quiet. Pat
Riley said something to me was so so funny, you know,
I told him the story, said, I know Springs gave
(20:44):
you work over there. I'm like, man, then if fundlet's
be Spreings gonna put their springs up, we come on, man,
you're serious. That was worth funny moments. One thing about
you know the Lakers who they were, And now I
got this big thing going back and forth with James
Worthy and you know where we're we're kind of bickering
(21:07):
in the in the news from time to time, and uh,
James Worthy is almost like, uh, when everybody said anybody
stept Trump, James Worthy is anybody except the self. So
so I'm saying I said that James Worthy, I said
some I think it was. One of the reporters asked
(21:29):
me a question, so what do you how do you
feel about the Lakers? I said, well, I said, you
know right now to where we're playing. I said, you
know what, and James this is James Worthy. I said, uh,
you know, when we win the championship this year, I
want you. They always said we're tied together. I said,
tell me how, I asked Mills since I passed by
it was gross and James Worthy said, damn, that was
(21:54):
out with. James Worth said, well, Leasie could get some original,
some something he could said original. I'm like, you can't
say nothing no more original than that. The kind of
my ass smell is a passing value. So they showed
James Worthy. I guess after uh, after Golden State beat us,
(22:14):
you see James Worthy has a picture James Worthy, and
he is he's mocking the Celtics by doing the same
thing that Steph Curry did and said good night Celtics,
like and that's anybody except the Celtics, and you know,
just doesn't want so we keep going back and forth.
(22:35):
And but you know, he told me one of the
most interesting stories. She said, Max, I really liked you.
I really loved corn bread. He said. I was in college.
You know, you were in college and you would see Charlotte.
He was from Gastonia, which is about twenty miles away,
and we were playing that night. We're playing Robert Parish
(22:55):
sitting there university and that was a big We were
the two top Independence and said me and Robert Pashil go.
He said, man, you don't know. I was in the
front row of that game watching you guys. He said,
I love watching you play. So it was just kind
of strange for him to say something that was actually positive,
you know, when it came to me or about the Celtics.
(23:16):
But you know, he I liked you, actually like James Worthy.
You know, he's one of the greatest players to ever
to play the game. I wouldn't say that out loud
for him or anybody else I norm on your podcast,
but you know that that's that's just the truth. They
had a great team. Kareem was my favorite player of
all time. I wore number thirty three in college because
and I told this to Kareem, I said, you're my
(23:38):
favorite player. And I wore the number thirt three in college.
And when I got to the Celtics, I wanted thirty three.
But there was a guy, Steve Gibirsky, who wore the number,
and then they gave me thirty and then it's he
cut that he got cut. But I was like, they said,
you want to change numbers like now, No, they know
what happens. Larry Bird comes in and gets thirty three,
(24:00):
so I probably would have had to change that number. Anyway,
I noticed you you wore several different numbers during your
NBA career. Correct was there any rhyme? I mean, I
know the obvious with Kareem and then Bird, but what
about the other numbers. Were there any rhymo reasons behind that?
Or you like the numb When I was with the Celtics,
I wore the number thirty. That's the first number that
gave me. And then mL car we got him um
(24:22):
as a free agent, and he wore number thirty and
asked me could he have that number? And I'm like, man,
I just have to have a number. So I gave
me thirty one, and uh, you know, I end up
make taking that to the rafters and all that. But
then I went to the Clippers, I think I wore
I see the nineteen, and then I think my last
year after with the Rockets, I wore eighteen. And that
(24:43):
there was no rhyme of reason. A jersey was a
jersey to me back then, and just to have one
on your back was cool. Yeah. In eighty four, you you, um,
you guys wanted title that. I think you got hurt
and got traded in the same year. Talk a little
bit about it was a little controversial exit. UM Now,
I kind of wanted to hear in your words what
happened with that scenario as far as you being traded
(25:06):
and the way you exited Boston. UM. In nineteen eighty
four when the championship UH seventh game here in Boston,
uh eight and eight. I had in that final game
against your guy James Worthy when points were points were
premium at that time, and end up winning the game,
(25:28):
leading the team and scoring let him in I think
assists in that game. The big time thing for me.
It was even you know, for me, although I was
the final's MVP and eighty one that was just that
was just as good, if not better, beating the Lakers
in that way. The very next year we win the championship,
I came back and I had a monists tear in
(25:49):
my knee and couldn't in the middle of the season
and couldn't come back, and Kevin McHale started and he
had the game of fifty six points and I knew
that was the last game that I was gonna be
starting with the Sultans and they were looking to trade
me then. The only thing about it, I was just
upset because I just wanted them to wish me the
(26:11):
same kind of luck. We had won two championships together.
I've done so many things for this team, and at
the end of the day they to leave in that
manner like, you know, like I was a bad guy.
And it's really always strange because you know, the year
the next year, eighty five, when I couldn't come back,
I was the person that they blamed essentially for losing
(26:33):
the championship because I couldn't come back from the injury.
And I was like, man, how good was I If
you had Robert Parrish, if you had Kevin mckill, if
you had Larry Bird, and you have Dennis Johnson, you
had four Hall of Famers, But you blame me for,
you know, losing the championship. So it told me my
(26:54):
value to the team. So when I finally left, I
just said it was it was it was animosity. I
just wanted to leave and I just wanted them to
wish me luck, and and they traded me for Bill Walton,
and Bill came in and played for a year. They
won the championship the next year, and I went to
the Clippers, and you know, I was, I was. I
(27:15):
was happy about leaving. I was stupid about leaving, though,
because I left a lot of money on the table. Um,
you know, the money I was the guy, uh you
know by being with the Celtics that year. Uh my
shoe deal essentially was you know, went from a hundred
and fifty thousand dollars a year from pony to almost
having to buy some damn shoes. So it was it
(27:40):
was just it was just kind of strange. But but
I just left in haste because I was just very
I was just piste off at the organization because um,
I guess my Um they the boss that they checked
to me was my credibility and who I was us
as a person. You never checked that during the times
(28:03):
we want so when I got hurt, how can you check?
And that's why I'm very seldom I'm ever you ever
going to hear me say anything about a player being
hurt and questioning what he can do, because the player
is the only one that knows his body. You know,
they can say you're ready and do all this other stuff,
but at the end of the day, it's the player
(28:23):
that's going to make that decision. And and that's why,
you know, really pissed me off about that when I
left the weather and went to the Clippers. Yeah. And
these stories that you're talking about, and a bunch of
other good stuff are all in your book. If these
walls could talk what you dropped in December correct and
talk about the timing of the book. Um, what sort
(28:45):
of inspired you to write it and to address some
of this stuff into and to really share a lot
of untold, absolutely hilarious stories about your time in the league. Well,
I mean it was it just seemed like it was
time to me. I remember having a bunch of stories,
and I'm always doing public speaking, and somebody came to
me and said, yeah, man, I need you to talk
(29:06):
about you know, this and that and what happened. I said,
And then somebody approached me about writing the book. And
one of the stories, which you know I love and
that you probably want, was the story with your dad. Uh,
you know, me and Marcus and and Franklin net was
were playing woman Frankly, it was were playing pool in
Los Angeles and your dad. Your dad walks in and
(29:29):
you know, he's like, yeah, I can shoot, I can shoot.
Me and frankl way shooting and you know, we're relatively quiet.
So your dad comes in and he saw a shooting
knocking down balls and I said, frank Franklin, I said,
you know, let me test Marcus right here. Let me see.
And I started yelling. I said, you know, while he's
trying to shoot. I said, oh, and you love this.
I said, you can't play that, niggapool. Can't you play that?
(29:52):
You're playing that? U c l A. You know quiet.
Everybody has to be the wine and cheese crown. Oh yeah,
you you you're the cheese crown. Brother. I start yelling
at it man that brother couldn't make a But your
dad told that, and I forgot about the story. But
(30:13):
the author went and told your dad about asked your
dad about, you know, when I played with the clippers,
and he remembered he told the story, and the author
was telling the story and then we're about to put
it in the book. And then that the author that
that people are so politically correct now. They were like, oh,
we can't use that word. Uh nika pole, we can't
(30:35):
use that. I said, I said, well, what word are
you gonna use? Well, how about we use African American.
I'm like, what the hell I think that was the
I don't think that was gonna scare my man. So no,
we said, I'll tell you what we can do. You
can use in I g and you know, let somebody's
imagineation go. But we were we're not taking that word.
(30:57):
That that was. That was the crusts of it. And
your dad was so funny when he told that story.
And uh, when the guy told me about it what
Marcus had said, he said, I was intelligent, I wasn't funny.
I was funny. I was a great player. And it
was it really was built up. But then when he
told me the story about the fool game that I forgot,
I was like, damn, that's right. We did have Marcus Johnson.
(31:21):
They're playing pool, and he was so funny because he
got he just got round. You know, you know, your
dad is cool calling McCay. He he might be one
of the coolest dudes with you know, I'm not sure.
There's just Denzel and then your day, your dad's up
there something like cool. But when he heard me talking
(31:43):
about that, yelling at to the top of my lunch, oh,
you can't play that, niggabool when I'm yelling at you
can't play that because and he just bust out. So
that was a great story that I think that we
had in the book. And there were many stories that
I end up putting in the book that were really good.
One of the most fascinating ones I think was talking
(32:03):
to my um. The guy asked me about my family. Initially,
I said, man, with a great story. I ended up
doing a girl that had that had been within college
forty years ago to sit me. Uh sent me a
leather a text message saying, well, four years ago I
wrote your leather and I told you I had your
(32:24):
daughter that that woman has now found me, and um,
I told her you were her dad, And I didn't
think that was possible because you know, I knew who
this woman was and what was going on in life.
So I end up I end up taking the paternity test.
Turnity test came back zero point zero point zero. So
I told her, you know, I don't know, it's not true.
(32:46):
You know it's true. You know, you know I was
just the best candidate. So yeah, anyway, I'm telling my
I'm talking to my sister, Lisa. I said, Lisa, I
just want to let you know I took a fraternity test,
and without sing to beat, my sister said, oh, so
you can find out who your real father is. I'm like,
(33:06):
that's another candidate. That's another candid worm. Yeah, that one
when I was talking about and uh, it made me
made me going to the process now going back and
found out I was not I was not born Cedric Maxwell.
I was Centric, folks, That's who I was. I was
born out of way lock. My dad was the Ford
(33:29):
small and my mom just kind of glossed over and
she ended up married Manny Maxwell, who was in the military,
and Manny took us took me around the world, took
me Hawaii, all over the places places he was stationed,
and gave me his name. And but they never told
me until I did not officially here until I was
about sixty years old, that my my cousin, who was
(33:51):
ten years older than me and ten years younger than
my mom, finally said, yeah, I remember you remember with
your little snotty nosed you was Cedric Folks at the time.
And that's the first time ever heard that my name
was different. Found out that I had a brother who
was also six sight. So my life has really been
a kaleidoscope here, I say, in the last five or
(34:14):
six years, that's deep. What is it like? I wanted
to ask you this specifically, what is it like growing
up having grown up in Kinston, North Carolina. We have
a couple of NBA players, uh, Jerry Stackhouse, Brandon Ingram,
what's in the water down there? And what was life
like growing up in the area that you did in Kinston,
North Carolina. Well, I think that's really strange because you
(34:37):
say that and there were there were they say that,
you know, they got the Emmy for there was a
documentary on um there's something in the Water the story
about Kinston, North Carolina and they got the Emmy for
it was myself in per capita, Kinston, North Carolina has
had more professional basketball players and even players are round
(35:00):
that uh than any other place maybe in the world.
I mean the place only has about thirty thou or
twenty five thousand people. Now for the last I said,
the last forty years has always had somebody in the NBA,
if not one, if not to I mean Um Bullock
who played with Dallas, he's actually he's actually from Kingston.
(35:22):
Jerry Stackhouse was from Kingston, and then Ingram from Kinston.
Charles Shackelford who played in the league is from Kingston.
Mitchell Wiggins who is right outside of Kingston. Uh. You know,
so there are so many players that played during the
era and it's just it's a hotbed of basketball essentially.
(35:43):
That's what we did. You know, we we played ball
all the time and that was a way to get out.
I was the first one that you know, got out,
went to UNC Charlotte and then eventually made it to
the Celtics, and then after that the preceding years, we've
always had a player, uh this come out of Kilston
has played major commins basketball, and it eventually got itself
(36:05):
into the pros very Dope, very dope area of the country.
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox sports
Radio dot com and within the I Heart Radio app.
Search f s R to listen live. UM fast forwarding
really quickly to the contemporary times, today's game. Um, you
(36:28):
you recently and the reason it's funny how you came
up because I was showing my dad the video of
you g P and Draymond Hemond. Hey you were you
went on the mike, Hey because I told you, because
I said I wanted to, and then you walked away.
So I showed my dad. Dad, he was like, let
me hit him, my man, get him on your podcast.
But I wanted to just talk to you about the
(36:49):
core of those comments that Draymond made, kind of in
a larger scale, talking about today's game and the physicality
of today's game and why today's player like a Draymond Green,
has this misprocessing. You wouldn't he wasn't about that action
back in the day, as I told me. But I
asked his daddy because Daddy, if he saw me play. Um,
(37:10):
Draymond Green is a is a central part of what
they do in Golden State, and there are times when
he's more of an irritant, uh you know. And he
was self in the first game. In the second game,
he was just playing bullet ball. He was sucking guys
down quickly, falling on people, falling on people. Yeah, I mean,
just hold on the men, it's like. And then when
(37:32):
I saw Gary Payton later on, and I just walked
up to Gary and I said, Gary, let me say
something about your boy, uh you know, and he said,
what I said, let me day sit in Draymond ring
during the eighties, he've been knocked the funk out. That's
what would have happened. And so I didn't know it
(37:52):
was being well, I kind of knew it was, but
I thought they were gonna beat it out when I
said and I guess it got back to Draymond and
Draymond and took a fence Cerdric Maxwell said they would
knock me out, and dad that that, you know, they
would punch me in the mouth. And he he was
talking about but I've polled almost every player that I
played with in the eighties. I could ask your dad
(38:12):
right now with the stuff that happened that Draymond Green did.
It's not like these are just facts, bro, that's all
it is. I'm not hating on him. These just facts
the matter that I know. He and he mentioned he said, well,
maybe Bill Lambierre wouldn't lock me up. No, Bill Lambier
got blasted in Boston Garden by Robert Parrish. And then
he said the one thing he said, well, you just
(38:34):
act like people in the eighties were going around punching people.
Well they were, That's how That's how I was. And
and I did a show with Isaiah Thomas and I said,
I'm looking at Isaiah, I'm saying and I went and
I told him later and I said, how do you
think you got them stitches across your eye? Right there?
That was a Karl Malone elbow. And then it was
(38:56):
for no reason other than you would come to the
basket call him a little took you out? Did they
throw called alone out that game? Probably didn't. I behave
him a technical and you you move on. But that's
the way the game was played. And I didn't. I
wasn't trying to offend him. I was just stating the
fact of how the game was played, and I said
it during the eighties, this what would have happened. And
(39:18):
then later on Dreymond came back at me and he
was like, I was talking to Garrett Payton maybe two
days after that, and Draymond made at the point of
coming over and getting in our conversation. I was walking
out and I'm talking to Gary, and Draymond walks over
and says, you're gonna be talking to Garrett Paye. You
don't be talking to people right now who'll be talking
(39:39):
about me. You will be saying that you know you
protect me, GP, you protect me, and g P looking like, dude,
you need to be protected like and I'm like, And
then at that point I said, Draymond, I'm standing right here,
you need to talk to me, and he's I don't
want to talk to you, and then I just I'll
walk out and that This is what I said. The guys,
my witness, your dad would love this because I said,
(40:01):
you know what I said, Gary, I said, let me
get the funk out of here right now before something happened.
He's gonna still make thirty million. I ain't making that
kind of money. So I said, I gotta protect myself
on the back side and walked out and Draymond and
that later on he came out kind of right after me,
(40:21):
and we talked for a minute. I said, Raymond, I'm
not hating on you said, well, be a man of
your word. Be a man of your word. You you
said that you said that somebody was gonna punch me
the mouth. That ain't what I said. I said, somebody
in the eighties would knock you the funk out. That's
what That's what I said. But I didn't want to
inflame it anymore. I said, I am a man about
(40:43):
my work. And finally at the end of us said, look,
I happened to like you. I like what you did,
but you know, are we good? And we shook hands
and we walked off. But you know, he's talked about it,
and people talked about it. Matter of fact that you
loved that. I think it was on YouTube and had
almost two million view views when he came to that one.
(41:07):
I wasn't meaning anything back, but it just happened, Yeah,
I thought, you know, I get into it all the
time with with folks on Twitter and just in the
arguments the younger generation when they talk about the eighties
and they call the players from the eighties plumbers and
repair men, and they just disrespect Like it's one thing
to say things about who you think is better, who
is nice, and who ain't. But then when you start
(41:28):
universally disrespecting a whole generation of basketball players, that basically
set the tone and foundation for what's going on in
today's NBA. That's where I take umbrage. Well, see that's
what and that's the one thing I did say to Draymond.
Draymond said, um he said that, you know, during the eighties,
if you got kicked out of the game, you'd only
(41:49):
had you've only been fined about two dollars. Well, that
that's a that's a mockery. I said, you'n gonna say
stuff like that. And I said, and I said, even now,
I said, for Draymond Green to say that that was
offensive to anybody I played with and anybody around me
during that time. And I said, because he makes he
made that third he makes that thirty million dollars a
(42:11):
year because he was he got on my shoulders and
everybody around me like the people I stepped on their shoulders,
So it was disrespectful. The last point I made to
him or anybody who want to hear that. I said,
it's only been thirty two now, maybe thirty three guys
who have been found m VP, and damnn, I'm one
of them. So I'm not one of these these flies
that you're going. Well, like he had talked to Charles Barkley,
(42:34):
you ain't one nothing you he did nothing that that Well,
you can't say that to me when it comes to
to my game. He did say something like, well, the
guys during the eighties, they would have had to increase
their skill level. Well, their skill levels were really good.
You probably would have had to increase your skill level
to play with all the hand checking. Step as great
(42:55):
as he is during the eighties. I think maybe because
its been slowed down just a little bit because people
have been able to put hands on it and and
kind of push him away. Right now, you can't touch
you guys, because you can't touch you guys. The way
he shoots the basketball almost impossible to guard. Yeah, well,
is there if there's a player that you could compare
(43:16):
Steph Curry too from your error or before that era,
maybe in the A B A days when they had
a three pointer. I don't know, Maybe there's a guy
that just the jumper and the ability just to move
so well without the ball and then go off the bounce.
Have you seen anything like it Max before? The only
guys I know that maybe shot like that was Freddy
(43:37):
Downtown Brown who would come off these picks and long
distance knocking down jump shots, moved well without the basketball.
But but there's nobody really likes there. And and the
thing that I admire about him, I said, only you
know his great DESI when you think about Steph Curry,
only two guys that I know have changed the game,
(43:58):
and the game had to be changed, see, you know,
kind of fit them fit them in. One of them
was Worth Chamberling. They changed the rules. He couldn't be
in the lane, They made the lanes bigger, they did this.
The other one, it's Steph Curry with his ability to
knock down trades. And you see, guys, right now, you
you've been around ball enough that you you you have
an understanding that guys who can't even fucking shoot, Now
(44:20):
that's the first thing to do, run up to the
three point life so they can give one of these
size and all this stuff from these shoot threes. It's
not it. Steph Curry is is a unique individual, and
he is broad in the game out in a way
that I can't even imagine. I only hardly understand the
game anymore, your dad. A lot of people in the
eighties don't understand the game anymore because instead of taking
(44:41):
a layout, you're right under the basket, you flinged up
all out to the two or three points shoot. And
I mean, I'd rather just give me a solid too
sometimes then looking for three. But the game has changed
in that way. I understand that I'm not hating on it,
but I do understand this change. But in some ways
don't know if it's changed for the for the better,
(45:02):
because nobody is like Steph Curry shot the basketball. Yeah,
And when we say like the game has changed for
the better or for the worst, I think the game
now the emphasis is more about basketball entertainment. It's more
about the marketing aspect. It's more about preserving guys, keeping
guys healthy, making sure that the stars are able to
play these dates. You know what I mean. Because so
(45:23):
it's less about look, the emphasis on competition. Sure, these
guys are fighting for the championships that they win. They
earned this stuff. They're busting their butt. But the league
as a whole, it seems like the emphasis you change.
If you remember early in the season, Marcus Smart dove
on the ball playing against the Warriors, Marcus Smart dove
Steph Curry kind of didn't dive, and then Steph gets hurt.
But everybody's just calling Marcus Smarter dirty player basically for
(45:46):
playing hard. Talk about though, just this this basketball entertainment aspect, Max,
do you understand it, like like the the globalization of
the game that started with David Stern and incorporating all
the Europeans in and now you have a game that's
played at a fast pace, a lot of threes, very
little physicality on the inside. Just talk a little bit
(46:07):
about that evolution and and why would it be bad
for basketball? Like, why isn't this great for the game?
Without any type of pushback, Well, I think because you
said entertainment, the aesthetics of shooting the threes. Now the
the the actions that go along with it. Um, you
know the bang you get for your buck when Steph
(46:28):
Curry comes down the steps back behind the line and
people get a chance and you know the gas and
you know when that ball goes in. Uh, the game
has changed. And he said, then they're trying to preserve that.
You know, you see the longevity of a guy's career now,
you know when you see Lebron James getting up to
twenty twenty years and still dropping, you know, almost thirty
(46:49):
points a game, you know that that was unheard of
you When me and your father played, it was like
if you got ten years in the league plus you
that was a great rear. Now essentially you're in your
prime because the physicality isn't there, and the workload isn't there.
The fact that right now teams are teams really uh
(47:12):
they baby their players and and too in a good way.
And the fact that they have you know, training resident regiments.
Sabella food is better. Uh. You know during our time
we flew commercial uh so, and we stayed at a
horrible hotels that I can't believe. There's a hotel right
now that's still out there in l A that we
used to stay at. That was the Marriott, their port
(47:34):
Marriott is still out the Essentially, what would happen. You
would come, we would play Seattle, uh, and then fly
in the l A playing that playing on the next day,
you get to l A, you get to the hotel
and they tell you your room ain't red. It's like
one of them, like, really, we're an NBA team a room. No,
(47:55):
your room is not ready. It won't be ready until
two o'clock till people check out. Whereas now you go
to the Rich Carlton, you go to the Four Seasons,
your room is always ready. And the just the the
lifestyle of the players lying on their own plane is different.
Obviously the money is different. It's just so many things
(48:16):
that are different about the game. But one thing you
do realize that the game is one thing about It
is about putting the ball in the hole and about
and that will that probably would never change. Yeah, no
it won't. Man. I like to finish up just talking
about these Celtics, uh, this year's team a little bit
and just what from your vantage point, because I as
(48:36):
I you know, obviously when it started to where it's come,
unbelievable evolution, unbelievable improvement on this team. He may has
just totally just grabbed ahold of the reins and really
put his imprint on on the identity of this crew.
But I think one of the things that stood out
for me, and you can chime in on this without
(48:57):
a traditional PG moving forward, is this Can the Celtics
get over the hump without having that type of traditional
point guard? Yeah, I think they can, and I think
the game has changed somebody to think about. Um, you
know all the guys you talked about who are playing
right now, and you you look at them, you're going
(49:20):
the game is more about the defensive pressure if you're
talking about staying out on on the pain. Um, I
look at the Celtic team right now. I'm excited because
they're young. You've got Jalen Brown who was under contract,
you got Tatum who was under contract, Marcus Uh, Rob Williams.
So the the core unit of guys are better, but
(49:41):
they're gonna have to add some more pieces, uh to compete.
Now you say that, and you're looking at going there
were only two games away from winning the World Championship.
They were essentially a quarter away from, you know, and
maybe a couple of minutes away from being up three
one against Golden State in the in the to say
it was a fourth game here in Boston. So I
(50:02):
don't think you're going to really you don't want to
mess it up. But you look at the league. The
league has always changing, It's always evolving world World, Kyrie
Irving World, Real League end up at Uh, you know
that's gonna be That's gonna be a huge question. I
heard people say this today and man, that would be fascinating.
Somebody said, well, maybe Celtics might be able to get
(50:23):
Kyle Kuzma uh from Washington, because I think what they
need is another score. And one thing you saw with
the Celtics, their bitch really kind of let them down
in the in the finals, Jordan's pool consistently outscored the
Celtic bitch. H Grant Williards who have been really who
have played really well, did not have a good finals. Uh.
(50:45):
You know, Pritchard did not have a good finals. I
think you look at Derek Quite who had a great
game one and in the game too, but after that
he kind of fell off the slide. So the Celtics need,
uh need more. But you got one of the five
best players in the league when you're talking about uh
(51:06):
Tatum uh and Brown is not far behind him. You
have a great coach, you have a great system, you
have a great organization, but you know you're always gonna
have to tweak it a little bit and uh fine
tune this thing if you're going to win the win
the championship, because obviously you know it's not promise. I
always tell the story about Dan Marino, the great football player,
(51:28):
how he went to the Super Bowl, maybe it was second,
first or second year planning in NFL, and uh, like
he never made it back again. And those things happen,
and you know, maybe maybe those I don't think that's
gonna happen to the Celtics, but I think they're going
to happen. Have to tweak their their team some to
(51:48):
find some other guys who want to be able to
score the basketball. Thing I love about the Warriors just
watching the way they moved the ball, man, you know
that that was that was amazing to me to watched
him come off to those picks and you know, the
ball never stopped. And with the Celtics, several times Jason
Tatum was in a predicament where he had the ball
(52:09):
and and that was one of that was the Achilles
here Jason Tatum and they in in the playoffs this year.
Broker record, Uh, he had a hundred turnovers. A hundred
turnovers for one person. That's a lot of turnovers when
you think about you know, you played. I think he
played fourteen twenty four games. So you do the math.
(52:33):
How much says that about turning over the game? Five? Two?
Over the game and you you're not gonna win, you know,
at that pace if you turn over. So he has
to get better at that position. Yeah, but I definitely
feel like he's gonna he's definitely the top five player
and he's gonna end up being, you know, one of
these guys that we're gonna, you know, talk about and
(52:53):
holding high esteem. As far as in the history of
the league, I haven't seen a young guy. I love
his pois. Um That's that's the one thing I've always said.
He's fearless to me. I mean, sure he played bad
and he turned it over, but you know it wasn't
for a lack of effort, or it wasn't for a
lack of trying. Um Man, Max, this conversation has been awesome,
my man. I truly appreciate you coming through. Um the
(53:16):
book is out. If these walls could talk and you
you're still on Celtics broadcast right the radio? Yeah, I've been.
I've been broadcasting for the Selviic. This is my twenties
six year doing radio for the Selving. So I've been
around a long time to see a lot of different
things happened, and I think probably losing to the Goost
and State Warriors and and to um uh Steph watching
(53:39):
what he did and Draymond watching what he did probably
was one of the most disappointing times. So I think
I've been around. Yeah, well, brother, I appreciate you, and
good luck moving forward. Everybody out there, go buy the book.
You won't to be disappointed, Ladies and gentlemen. Cedric Maxwell,
I alright, my brother, thanks for having me
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