The Builder Of The Boat

Julie Anne interviews her co-host Arden about her upbringing in Little Compton, Rhode Island and how she got to where she is today. They also get into what it means to build in your own boat in this industry, working in the theater, and coming back to stand up. They spend some time discussing grief and how Arden chose to be open with herself and her listeners on Will You Accept This Rose. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hello, that's need distress. She's oh that never gets old.
Mark Rivers. Ladies and gentlemen, Hello, and welcome to another

(00:33):
episode of A Lady of the Road. My name is
Arden Marine, along with my co houst Ms Julie Anne Robinson.
We're so excited today because we're gonna do things a
little bit differently. Julie Anne is going to interview me.
Normally we would be on the same side of the
virtual desk interviewing somebody, but today we're going to be

(00:53):
on opposite sides of the virtual desk. Julianne, first of all,
before we get started, you're in a new room in
your house. You are in a beautiful striped I mean
my basement because upstairs is too loud. You can hear
the freeway. This is much better. But I'm a little
bit anxious. Actually I've never interviewed anybody before. I was
thinking something that a friend of mine set, which is
you have to get outside your comfort zone. So this

(01:16):
is me getting outside my comfort zone. And I can't
imagine anybody that I would rather interview for the very
first time than you. Oh, thank you. I'm so honored,
and I thank you so out of my comfort zone,
and Um, I think you're gonna do great. I'm going
to pass the reins to you, Julie, and you I
believe in you. You've got this. I'm going to try

(01:39):
because one of the reasons why this is going to
be easy is because you are a fascinating person. You're
a bit of an enigma, interesting, even though you probably
don't think you are. But I'm just going to list
all the things that you are. And if I've missed
anything out, will you please is tell me? Okay, okay,

(02:02):
so here we go. Um, your stage actress, you're a
TV actress, you're a film actress. You are a panelist,
you're an author, you're a businesswoman, you are a podcaster,
you are an interior designer, you are an impressionist, and
you're a headlining stand up. Have I missed anything out? No,

(02:26):
I think that's it. I think that's it. I'm not
really an impressionist. I only did it because I had
to do it on that TV. But I would not
consider myself an impressionist. Really. Well, we're going to discuss
that later on, okay, but I think the rest Um,
that's yes, that's what I that's those are my jobs.
I'm a writer. I'm a writer, A writer, of course, yes,
as you wrote in a lovely essay that I read

(02:49):
that you wrote recently, I am a writer, yes, of course,
A pilot creator, a pilot creator. This is fantastic, and
it means that we're probably not going to have long enough.
We've only got an hour, because if you gave each
of those ten minutes, you wouldn't have long enough to
discuss all the different facets of your personality. That's crazy.
But what we're gonna do is start at the beginning,

(03:11):
because I'm really interested to find out how little miss
little Compton, which is this fantastic book that I read
that you wrote, became this multifaceted, extraordinarily talented human being
that I'm looking at over zoomed today. So it's the

(03:32):
nicest intro, and I mean truly, it's the nicest intro
I've ever gotten. So thank you so much, truly, I
appreciate that. Thank you. I'm really really really fascinated because
from reading your book, it really was a tiny, tiny place.
I mean, in my head, it was the kind of
place that I would love to live. I mean, population

(03:53):
three thousand. I think you said, yeah, it has a
lot of land, so it's sort of land land rich
people poor are I grew up in a town called
Little Compton, Rhode Island, and it looks like visually it
looks like Ireland, and it feels like it's from a
different century. So there's at the end of my street,
there's dirt roads, there's fields with stone walls. There's no stoplights. Um.

(04:16):
And there was a medical buddy who was elected twice. Correct,
that was in Providence. He was he was the mayor
of Providence, who was uh buddy Sciancey who was elected
twice and thrown into prison twice and reelected. We had
an illiterate chief of police in my town that kept
getting reelected. We have a general store and a coffee
shop in an apple orchard. You would actually love it.

(04:39):
You really should go visit it because it sounds really,
really beautiful. And in terms of so I'm imagining this
very small town, and I'm imagining your family within that
small town. So your family were I would say, maybe eccentric, Yes, right, yeah,
So would you would you give us an introduction to J. J.

(05:03):
William l Ric Yeah? How you pronounce his name? Although
I saw I'm Richardson. There was a director named Alric,
so excited. It was like it was close enough both
of us with Arten and Alarica names, like when we
would go to you know the trashy gifts we want
like a little license plate or a key chain or

(05:26):
and they never had Arten or Alaric, so seeing an
Alric was exciting. My parents Janet would be who nicknamed
herself j J. At seventy five, so Jj and my
dad Willie, they met in Manhattan. They were co workers.
They never went on one date with one another, and
one New Year's Eve they got engaged on a dare
that everybody got two weeks vacation time, but if you

(05:48):
went on a honeymoon, you got an extra two weeks
vacation time. So my dad dared my mom to marry
him and that he would take them on a four
week honeymoon to South America and that they would come
back and get it ann Old. So she accepted his dare,
and then the next day she upped the Auntie and
she called him back and she said, I will do it,

(06:08):
but I don't want to get it Annold. So my parents,
having never went on one day, they got married and
they stayed married for fifty years, and when it was
time to have children, they moved from Manhattan. My dad
said he would live one of two places in Manhattan
or a little Compton, Rhode Island. So my mom picked
Little Compton. I don't know if she'd never even visited it.

(06:30):
She wanted my brother and I, who didn't even exist yet,
but she wanted her children to be able to entertain
themselves and to not be overprogrammed, and to be able
to climb trees and be sort of unsupervised, and that
she thought noodling and downtime was the most important thing

(06:50):
for your imagination. And I think her bet paid off
for both of us. I think both of us. It worked.
And why do you think she decided that she didn't
want to get it annulled? You know, she've I've thought
a lot about this because she was I mean, my
father was really kind of a salty dog, and she
was this wonderful sort of Mary Poppins creature, and you know,

(07:14):
she it was of an error where she went to
she went like mad Men style, wore like little white
gloves to work. I actually just found like a bunch
of her letters, and I found a bunch of her
love letters from she had this boyfriend in college, and
I was actually so happy. I mean, it felt very
weird to be reading someone's love letters, very violating. So

(07:35):
I'm sorry, mom, but this guy really they were in
love and he really was, I think, the opposite of
my dad. She was a great ahead of him. I
think they dated for three years. So she met when
they were sophomore and he was a freshman. They dated
all three years. They were pinned to be married, so
she went back to She grew up in Queens, New York,

(07:55):
and she would take the train in to go work
at you know, and work and stay lived with her parents.
Or she graduated and she would go visit him, and
they were waiting till he graduated and they were going
to get married. And during that year, I don't know
if he cheated on her or what, but he left
her for somebody else who he married. I think her
heart was broken. I think she felt that. I've heard

(08:16):
her say at twenty three that she felt like an
old maid. It was very much. Even though she loved working,
it was of the era that you get married, you
have like that was what was expected of you. She
was definitely a product of the fifties, and so I
think my dad was kind of wild, and she thought
he was rich because he had a housekeeper and um,

(08:39):
and I think he was completely the opposite of the
gentleman that broke her heart. And I think at first
he appeared sort of fun and eccentric. It's almost like
that sort of bad boy boyfriend that you should have
for a year or so or six months. But because
I don't think she knew what she was getting into,
because she had never even gone on a date with him.
And then I think, you know, she just that's what

(09:00):
you do. You put on your white gloves and you
just stick it out, and that's your husband. And I
think she responded by the end. I mean, you know,
for many years, I thought, why why is she with
this guy? Like she mostly wanted to be a mom,
and so I think we were sort of my brother
and I were her primary relationship. But I do think
for whatever reason, she loved him, and he drank quite

(09:21):
a bit. I think she was worried that if if
she left him that he would die, so she it
was hard. I think she really felt responsible for him,
and like this weird it was like it was her
one blind spot. Yeah, can you hear that? Crushing? No?
But no my family right. If she gets any worse,

(09:44):
I'm going to go up there and stuff. It's sorry,
I'm finding distracting. That's okay. Yeah, it's really really interesting
because when in reading the book, you could see I
mean clearly this amazing, amazing mother, Yeah, and then a
father whose decisions are questionable, specifically as regards to you.

(10:04):
And I felt very protective of you when I was
reading it, and I was wondering, given that it was
such a small town, was your family were they kind
of the strange family or was everybody equally eccentric? Like
did you stand out as as a family that people
were like, were they were the ones that got married
on a dead You know? I think my mom was

(10:27):
good enough at presenting as long as everything looks fine,
everything's fine. And I think that we weren't allowed to
tell anyone what was going on, which I think is
quite common. And I think times have changed a little
bit particularly and I can just speak to sort of
waspby New England. Sorry so sorry Arden, Hey, Rob, that

(10:49):
day is upstairs, it's really crashing. Whatever's happening upstairs? Can
you get him to stop. Just just get people to
stop walking around. It's fine. I'm in the middle of
an interview right now. It's do you have to be
down here? Thank you? I think so in the middle
of an interview. I think you're doing great, Julia, thank you.

(11:14):
Can they we can leave all listen? Do you have
to be um? Can they go for a while? I
was like, really really interested. That's really fascinating. So so
you asked, you asked if they were the quirky ones. Yeah,
they were. They quirk you know my town one of
the things. I think that the small town afforded them.
And I don't know if this is what it's like

(11:35):
in England, but I feel like it's a similar vibe.
You just kind of don't talk about it, you know,
there's this this thing like you just don't knowbody talks
about anything. I think we were sort of like the silly, quirky,
kind of funny oddballs, you know. I mean, I think
we were entertainingly different. I think there was almost just

(11:57):
this acceptance of like in Newing and it's not like
a real housewives of Dot dot dot, like you just
kind of leave each other alone in a way. I
certainly felt very different. In particular, it's a town that's
sort of like a Nantucket type town. So in this summer,
all these sort of rich, seemingly perfect families would come

(12:18):
in that were like beautiful and played lacrosse and we're sporty,
and I certainly felt sort of less than and different
than all of them. But I think we were accepted
as kind of like we were funny, Like everybody in
my family was funny. We were kind of like the
circus that came to town. We were the funny You'd

(12:38):
invite us, and we'd be the circus that came to
your house. I get the impression from your book that
you felt that you wish that you did maybe you
were a little bit less eccentric or less quicky as
a family, or did you always embrace Look, I think
in a town so small, I just wanted to be
like everybody else. You know, I was the only redheaded child,

(13:01):
and not that that's that big of a deal, but
like we were different, and and my mom enrolled me
in school a year before, like I was really little,
and I was also too young for my you know,
she just enrolled me like even though, and like she
just was like I think you're ready. And I think
I had a lot of shame for many years. I
think shame was a dominant feeling of we could seem

(13:24):
entertaining if you got to know us out in public,
but that if you really got to know me, or that,
I mean, my dad was so verbally awful that I
felt like you could only get so far in without
knowing the truth that something was terribly wrong with us.
In the book, there's a description of your dad weeding

(13:46):
the garden passively a very small tool. Yeah, in his past. Yeah. Yeah,
And so that would be the type of thing that
would greet your friends if they have came around. Yeah.
And that's that kind of burns deep right when you
a child. You know, it's interesting the people that sort
of did make it into the inner sanctum. I think

(14:09):
when he wasn't your dad, there was almost this admiration, Like,
particularly with the boys, he was almost like this icon
of somebody who just didn't give a damn, Like who
just danced his beat of his own drum, and like
bodysurfed every day and drove as convertible and like just
didn't care. And I think people almost treated him like

(14:32):
a folk hero, but when that person is your dad.
I think he was particularly hard on me. I think
because I was a female. He would talk business with
my mother. What was it about you being female? Why
would that make him particularly hard on you? Do you think?
I think because I was female, because I had a
strong personality, he just wanted to like crush it and

(14:54):
squish it. He was competitive with it. I don't know
what it was. There was a real mean there and
it was put on me. I think even before he
before I was even a creature that could speak. I mean,
his first words about me were like, she's not a blonde,
she's a redhead. I never met a redhead of woman
I trusted. You know. That was like our two you
know what I mean. Just I was like a baby

(15:16):
in the hospital. He thought I was flirting with a
nurse and he said, like, get thee to a nunner.
Like he was just mean and he was particularly mean
to me. It's hard. I have a hard time with bullies.
I would say, that's been one thing. I have a
hard time with people that are cruel for sport, that
are bullies for the fun of being a bully. I

(15:37):
just want to say, would you ever aware your persona
now is you are beautiful and sexy and talented. You
never felt like that in Little Compton. I don't think
I felt like that until I turned thirty five. I
have been decluttering my house and even just going through

(15:57):
all my photos and stuff, and I just have much
compassion for like that little gal, including all through my twenties.
And I was like, oh, you just felt terrible. I
just felt terrible. Yeah, it's funny because your book there's
always goofy pictures of you, and it's all told with
the beautiful lightness of touch, and it's told through comedic lens.

(16:20):
But I can see how what's going on underneath that
would maybe fuel you and drive you into the next
stage of your life when you left and you went
to the big city. I will say the gift of
doing stand up again later, I really see how I
think the magic of everything that I thought was like

(16:42):
the most shameful or wrong about me is actually what
is the most lovable, And like, I have a real
acceptance and compassion for anybody out there like you. You
don't choose sort of who programs you. You don't choose
the environment you grew up in. And there was also
so much that was magic, Like my mom was such magic,

(17:03):
but that you know, you're human being, so certain messages
get into you. And I really have so much compassion
of like the more I tried to hide the man
behind the curtain, like I just needed to be like
this is me and here's my man behind the curtain,
and this is how I grew up and I'm all
of it. Like there's something about truly being an artist

(17:23):
or truly being an integrated person on earth. It's embracing
some of the early pain in a way I think
it sets it free of like, oh, I didn't do
anything wrong. That wasn't my Like that was somebody else's
pain that was put on me, And it doesn't mean
that it didn't affect me, but I don't need to
carry that anymore, Like that had nothing to do with me.

(17:44):
And I think that's part of the human condition. And
I felt like the more I fought it, the worst
it got, and the more I was like, well, this
is just part of my quirks. Well, we're going to
go to a net break and I was going to
use this at break to go to the beautiful, sexy
and talented person that you became when you left Little Compton,

(18:06):
but it sounds like it. Maybe the next at break
when we have to go to that, when you finally
feel that way, we go to an at break and
we'll come back and we'll talk about what happened when
you left your hometown. Okay, back from the ad break?
Is that how you do it? Yeah? Do you need

(18:26):
a drink or anything? Or you are right? Oh? Yeah,
I'm going to have a drink now some shardon a girl.
I really will next time. Hooray. Okay, So I know
what happened when you left Little Compton. I know what happened,
but maybe you could talk about how you got to

(18:47):
the Improv Olympics. So I went. I followed my best
friend Cheryl to college in Colorado, which I never looked at,
which I would not recommend, and it turned out it
was not the right place for me. But the gift
of that, and I talked a lot about that in
the book of how sometimes seemingly roadblocks end up being

(19:08):
gifts because you have to be sort of scrappy. The
gift of that was the cheapest way out of there
where I could still get college credit. My school had
this arts program in Chicago, and you had to get
an internship when you went. So I was like, just
getting out of the school in Colorado. I went to Chicago.
I met with five different places, and I had no

(19:29):
interest in improv. I didn't know. I'd only seen sort
of cheesy short form improv, you know, like of like
the school group in the student center that's like phraze,
Mr Anderson, get your hand off my, you know, it's
just like and so I went on four interviews and
I was like, I had agreed to intern for this
actress who I was. It was a real live actress.

(19:50):
I was couldn't believe it, you know, I was going
to get to see one in action. And I had
one more interview to go on, and it was at
Improv Olympic and I went and watched to show and
it changed everything for me. They do long form improv.
Scharna Halpern was running it. Del Close was still alive.
He worked with John Belushi, he trained Chris Farley, trained

(20:12):
Mike Myers. And at the time the home team which
I saw perform was Adam McKay, who went on to
write Anchorman and The Big Short and he's won Oscars,
And it was Matt Besser and Ian Roberts, who went
on to found Upright Citizens Brigade, and then Neil Flynn,
who has been on every sitcom under the sun, like

(20:33):
Who in the Middle. He's so I mean, he's just
such a gentleman. I love Neil Flynn. He's so old fashioned.
He's like an old timing kind of a guy. And
her ratio stands. I mean. So that was the house
team and they were doing the Herald and then they
were improvising full What does that mean house team? It
means they were sort of like the Saturday night eight

(20:55):
pm show, you know, like they were the main ticket
seller like some of the other shows throughout the week
Tuesday through Friday where some of them put together from
the classes and stuff like that. So it was sort
of the main stage, big show, and it blew my mind.
So basically, improv Olympic was where people would go first

(21:20):
and then because nobody really made any money doing it,
but it was like their craft, and then people would
go to Second City where they would make money and
then get plucked from Saturday Night Live and stuff like that.
And the level of talent that was there it blew
my mind. I mean, I've never seen anything like it,
and it was just so I immediately called the actress.
I'm like, I'm not working for you. I'm doing this

(21:40):
improv theater. But it opened my mind of like the
official world of comedy. But it was very male. At
the time. I felt like, as a nineteen year old female,
I just didn't think that was where I was going
to thrive. So I left. I'm curious, did you ever
try different personas out because you persona, it seems to me,

(22:02):
is quite different to your persona when you grew up.
We talked about being beautiful, sexy, talented, but also very
self deferential, not taking yourself particularly seriously. Because when I
look at you, I think, well, there's a real beauty.
And you had a number of options of how to
play that. You could have played it ice cold, because

(22:25):
you've got the kind of grace Kelly Swedish look. Oh,
you could have played it this very self deferential funny.
I'm just curious whether you tried different personas out along
the way before you landed. That is very kind and
I will tell you my first I guess eight years

(22:46):
in l A. I was lucky because I got cast
right out of the gate. But it's interesting this town.
I was a little redhead with the bob and like
that makes you like TV undateable, so you're like the
loser girl. You're like the loser girl, which I was
actually perfectly happy to play, but it was like there
would be ads. Remember I did a part on Just

(23:07):
Shoot Me, and there was an ad at the height
of Mussy TV that was like, would you eve Rebecca
remains gamos for this woman? You know, It's like it
was me like a spock Rocks T shirt on. It
was like, there's just like eighteen pigtails on my head.
It was an interesting thing because that's who I feel like.
And then when I auditioned for Mad TV, I auditioned

(23:27):
with all these sort of like quirky, weirdo characters and
then they basically bought me and dyed my hair blonde
and threw me in a bikini. And I remember think
being so confused that it was so not anything I've
ever played before, and I remember feeling very resentful that
I couldn't play my weird Christen Wig characters. You know

(23:48):
that that's what I wanted to do and they wouldn't
let me do it. But in a weird way, I
wouldn't say it was a gift, but like the good
part that came out of it was I just made
up my mind. It was like, all right, and you've
never played this kind of part before. Let's see if
we can be like funny and have looked like a
normal human female and a party dress, Like can we

(24:10):
just trust that you're allowed to be television attractive and
you can be funny? Because I was looking at the
characters that you played on that TV it was like
Kim Kardashian, Katie Higel with a spoon, Nicole Kidman, They're
these kind of they made me do that. Addition, they

(24:33):
made me do that. I just wanted to be, like,
you're weird aunt that like chewed on soap, you know,
like I just and yet I will say I think
it was sort of a gift for me. That was like,
oh well, Goldie Hawn did it, you know, Terry Guard
did it, Medline Con did it. That's who I wanted
to be growing up. Like maybe there's nothing wrong with you.
Maybe it's just like you're allowed to be to look

(24:57):
attractive and you can still be funny. Like I feel
like comedy has changed quite a bit now where you
can be any of it. Like I think, back in
the day, I don't know. I just I didn't believe
that it would be an underdog enough to be funny,
you know, And it's just certainly not how I felt.
But it was sort of a gift for me to go,
don't put yourself down. You know, you're a smart, funny person,

(25:21):
and it's perfectly okay for you to like yourself and
feel good enough. And it's interesting, you know. I don't
think the men on Mad TV had to think about it.
Every single woman the first episode there on, we're thrown
in their underwear, literally, and so that was weird, you know,
Like I wish I didn't have to worry about that.

(25:42):
Did you ever acceptance start to see yourself as a
normal human female from the inside. Do you feel that
or did you always feel like the quickie redhead. I
think I have the operating system of the quirky redhead.
But I think I've looked under the hood of my
car enough to see the beauty and me and everybody else.

(26:04):
Do you know what I mean? To see that I'm
not being of service to myself or anybody else by
putting myself down, and that this time of year because
it's going into pilot season. I feel cute, and I
feel enough, and I feel like I feel good about
myself and I like who I am, and I feel
like I could be a leading lady. And for a

(26:25):
moment in time, if you're a comedic actress in Los Angeles,
you have a few years where every part you go
out for a sitcom wife. I've literally never booked even
one guest spot of that, I've never booked one sitcom wife.
And my friend and my writing partner, Jacob, who's so

(26:46):
lovely and he's like art and you're just not bland enough.
It's like he's like, that's a good things, like the
thing that you're the things that you're right for nobody
else could do. So it's like, just know that what
you do nobody else can do, and don't worry about that.
It's okay that you're not that it's you know, I
think I always just felt too extra. But you know,

(27:06):
I think the world is changing. I actually believe the
more specific and unique you are as a human, the better.
Like as my as I say in the book, my
friend Andy's mom says, don't give them what they want
to want, what you've got and you know, and that's
why I look at like a Phoebe waller Bridge. That's
why I look at like an Array. I wasn't dying
to be a sitcom wife anyway, Like I want to

(27:27):
play complicated, flawed, human, funny, sometimes unlikable, sometimes very likable,
strong women. Yeah, I'm curious with the situation with your dad.
Could you just tell us what happened when you booked
your first job, which is a huge deal. It's a

(27:49):
huge deal, I mean of actors never get the chance.
Oh my god. I was twenty two years old and
come from a town with three thousand people, and I
booked a sitcom. I booked an NBC sitcom at the
height of like musty TV. I book this scom called
Working and it got picked up and so that meant
it was gonna start airing, and it was a huge deal.

(28:12):
And again it was interesting. I'll come back this and
like just decluttering my house and finding all these like clippings. Um,
I don't think I realized at the time, like there
were so many clippings. I'm like, oh, I think they
were trying to make me something, and I just didn't
feel like I was it like I didn't feel it,
but so in my brain I thought, you know, I

(28:35):
just always had stars in my eyes. I wanted to
be an actors since I was a little girl. I
wanted to be a comedic actress. Since I was a
little girl. Somebody sent me a photo of a four
year old meat dressed as a cone head. Recently, I
would like reenact the SNL S. My mom will let
me watch Saturday Night Live. So I actually have a
photo of me as a cone head and it looks
like I'm a member of the k k K. It's

(28:56):
actually me doing codad. So in my mind, you get
on TV like you live like uh, you know, the
lifestyles of the Richard famous, like your life is perfect,
you have a pool, everything's great. You know. The reality
was I had a very cute, little, tiny one bedroom apartment.
You know, I had a car that kept dying. But
like I remember, I was waiting for my like overnight,

(29:18):
my life to change. And the show aired and nobody
called me. Nobody called me, which was crazy. I don't
know why my mom didn't call. I don't know, I
don't know what happened, but so like so I called
home the next day. It was so, you know, I
was twenty two years old. So I called home and
my dad answered and I said, hey, he's like hi.
I said, um, well the show was on. He was

(29:39):
like yep, And I said, uh, did you see it?
And he goes, yeah, I saw it. And I said, well,
what did you think? And he said I thought it
stunk and you stunk with it. I mean, truly, just
the I mean it was the meanest. It took me
many years to just let go of the like I
didn't do an thing, and it was never it never

(30:02):
did happen, and it was never going to happen, and
just like acceptance of like this was a really mean
person to grow up in a house with. I will
say on Mad TV, every single funny woman had some
cork with their dad. I will say, bad dad's make
entertaining daughters. There wasn't one who had an available, loving father,

(30:27):
like not one. I wonder if it if it's also
a if it helps you with the alma that you
need for your profession, if it kind of builds up
that emotional resilience, resilience that you need. I think it
certainly gave me a drive to get out of that
house and to get out of that town. For the
fantasy was if I could just do this for a

(30:50):
living and make people laugh and if I could jull like,
then everything will be okay. M hmm. Because the thing
about you when I watch you on screen, um, which
is so refreshing, and I've I've directed a lot, as
you know, the thing is that you go for it

(31:15):
in a way that is rare. Yeah, you know you don't.
I mean, so many people worry about where their key
light is. They worry about, um, you know what the
camera is? Is it blow? The eye line is above
the eye line? You know what filters do you have
in the lens? You just seem to inhabit and you

(31:36):
leave nothing on the table. You're just like, right, I'm here,
I'm here for you. I'm gonna go for it. I'm
going to inhabit this character ast fully as I can.
And I wonder, again, that's the kind of bravery that
is quite rare. But it doesn't come back to having
to be brave and strong and resist because somebody telling you,

(31:58):
somebody so important tell you that you're worthless and meaningless.
You have to overcome that and you have to say
fuck it, you know, I'm putting it. I'm going to
carry on no matter what you say, and I'm gonna
just fucking go for it. You know, I never thought
of it in relation to him, but yeah, I think

(32:18):
there is a real like fucking leave me alone. I
would want I know who I am. I would have
wanted to do this regardless. I mean, I love performing.
I love it. It's interesting. In real life, I get
nervous or cautious, but there's something about if I'm filming
something or if I'm performing on stage, there's a fearless quality.

(32:39):
I have to be all in. You know. There's a
lot of like never let them see you sweats, or
I'll do all the prep work so you don't have
to see the prep work. But I will come so
prepared to that I can then just let go, like
leave it outside and then just be present in the moment.
I also fully believe to circling back to what you
asked about, like how you look physically. I always felt

(33:00):
like I can't worry about what I look like, envy present,
So I'm just gonna trust the hair, makeup and warder
people know what they're doing, and just I don't care
if I look terrible. I don't care what I look
like like I I just want to go for it
and the fun of playing like a tennis MATCHIC is
a really good tennis Like I'm gonna be all in
and I will go until you say cut, Like I

(33:21):
can keep the ball going even if the scene ended
five minutes ago. I can keep going until you and
I will be all in. And I actually have permanent
physical injuries because I because I am not scared while
I'm before, I will do things that I would never
do in real life, like and it doesn't scare me
while I'm doing it. But I I do think there
is a quality of like I guess with my dad,
like you can't catch me, Like I'm gonna be so

(33:44):
far out of your stratusy, I'm gonna like punch so
far fast through this like karate board. See you, sucker,
You're never gonna catch me. You have to be brave,
fearless and strong and have a protective bubble of like
I don't give a ship what you think. I don't
care you think what I look like. I don't care,
like I'm just gonna be all in, And I think

(34:05):
we have to go to an ad break before we go.
I would like you to tell me about hole to hole.
Oh my god, yes, okay, tell me about that, because
what I'm interested in in the terms of the evolution
of your life is it seems to me you you
were an actress on that pilot, but you were way

(34:27):
more than that. Yeah, and it seems to me like
you were taking the reins in some way when when
that came along and you decided that you were gonna
get behind the camera as well as in front of
the camera. So if you could just tell us a
little bit about that. I mean, that's always been my
dream has been to create my own shell. That's you know,

(34:48):
when I was in high school, I couldn't get cast
in the place at the theater. Departminated me. So I
just started writing my own plays and putting them on.
So I would write them, direct them and be in
them sometimes. But like I was just like fun, you
know what, you can't stop me. So I'm gonna make
my own thing like you just can't stop me. So
which I think you have a similar quote, Like I

(35:10):
think both of us are like quiet about it, but
it's like okay, well there's gotta like that bridges out
there's gonna be some way across the river, like I'm
just gonna do it, and so um hold a whole
was this pilot Pam Brady, who wrote the South Park
movie and Team America with those gentlemen. She and I
were the first women to sell a show to Adult Swim.

(35:31):
It was sort of like in the vein of Children's
Hospital meets the Tim and Eric Awesome Shows, but it
was a take on the show Heart to Heart and
Jason man Sukus and I played this married couple Amilia
and Ashley danger Hole and they saw arrives and like
have sex and but it's like a musical and it's crazy,

(35:53):
and Pam directed it. We wrote it together and I
was in it. It was so fun just because it's
Adult Swim and Adult Swim is all like it it
is your like it is the least subtle thing in
the world. But it was like getting to go for
it in a way that the guys always get to
go for it like let's just do our version as

(36:13):
ourselves of a crazy like let's like let's just go
and it's just an explosion of everything and it was
such a joy. It was so fun putting together like
meeting with the art directors and the costume department and
the music and actually the guy who did all the songs,
so that wrote this theme song, and um, it was

(36:34):
very heartbreaking because we turned it in and it was
all green lights and adult Swim, who had been lovely
to us, said it wasn't guy enough. They've never done
a show with female show. I think they have a
few now, but it really put me on the couch
of like, I just felt so discouraged that men had.
It was more of an opportunity thing of they have

(36:55):
all these places to do things, and I think it's
changing now, but like, can't you give one? Can't you
just pick us up for six? You know? She wrote
the south Park movie like when it's Pambrady, you know.
And I just felt very discouraged, like because it was
such a joy to be able to create the whole world.
That's my dream. I want to do what Phoebe waller

(37:17):
Bridge does. I want to do what Esa Ray does,
like I want to make my own world. I like
doing all And it was fun to be able to
employ my friends and employee talented people and collaborate, like
it's my my favorite thing in the world is making things.
I love it, or as you say, build your own boat,
build your own boat. My mom always said, like, you've

(37:39):
got to build your own boat, protect your magic, protect
your magic, and build your own boat. For sure. Well
we're going to talk more about building your own boat
when we come back here. We are back from upbreak,
still speaking to Oddin about her life her here. There's

(38:01):
a lot that I haven't been able to talk about
because for those people that have been listening since the
beginning of this podcast, this woman is multi, multi talented.
There's just way too much to talk about. And I
really do want to use this opportunity to talk about
the idea of building your own boat and what that
looks like. But first, before we do that, I want
to talk to you about your stage career, because I

(38:23):
think a lot of people don't know how experienced you
are as a stage actress and what that means to
you versus how you started because a lot, I mean
for everybody, it's it's quite unusual to have an actor
who is equally accomplished on stage and on screen, and
usually people pick So I would be fascinated to know

(38:46):
how you found your way as a stage actress. Because
you don't really go into it in the book tell
very much. Also, what how you found that compared to TV?
I mean, do you if you had to make a choice,
what would you choose. I have loved the plays I've
gotten to do. The first big play I got to
do was Boston Marriage, which is a David mamm At

(39:08):
play we I did. I originated it at the Public
with Kate Burton and Martha Plimpton. It's a three person
I love Cape Burton. You know again, that was one
of those things where it was this so I don't
know if you've seen the play, but so it's like
two women in a drawing room and then there's this
disaster Scottish maid that keeps coming in and it's like

(39:31):
burst into tears. It's just a nightmare. So I was
the Scottish maid, and um, just a complete wreck. So
um it's a three three hander and I wanted it
so badly, you know. I I put myself on tape
in l A and then they liked it enough that
I flew to New York. But I only had like

(39:51):
a couple of days to do it. A couple of
days to get a Scottish accent. You know, I I
so I I really went and fought for it, and
the audition, I remember, the audition went so well and
I did not get it. And I and about once
a year, because again I'm a specific person, so like
once a year if it's a very specific part. There's

(40:14):
certain things that I go up for and I think,
I know I left it on the field, like I know,
and I don't get them, and I think you're wrong,
like that one was mine. And this has actually happened
a few times where I just couldn't believe I didn't
I couldn't believe I didn't get it. I worked so
hard on it and it was and I'm good at

(40:35):
I'm good at comedy crying. I'm good at bursting into
tears for comedic effect. That's one of my I'm gonna
playing drunk and I'm good at comedy crying. There's many
things I can't do. And then I remember they couldn't
cast it. And I happened to be back in New
York from my grandfather's ninetieth birthday party, and they asked
me to extend my stay and come back because rehearsals

(40:57):
were starting on Monday. I had like one day so
I went in and I did it again exactly as
I did it before, and they still wouldn't give it
to me. And then they made me extend my ticket
and come back again in the morning and do it again.
I think just to I think because I was a
TV actress. I think they didn't trust that because I
had been a TV actress. I think they thought, you know,

(41:20):
that world can be kind of like, oh, you didn't
go to Juilliard, you know, like even though I did
study in school, like so, I had to prove that
I could consistently do it three times in a row
on different days and take notes and directions. And so
I did it again, and I booked it and rehearsal
started the next day and I had to I was
I didn't have a place to live. I lived in

(41:42):
Los Angeles. I had clothes for my grandfather's party, like so,
I had like twelve hours to fly home grab my suitcase.
It was before really the internet, like I there was
no Craigslist. I had to find a place to live
and make it to rehearsals the next day. So I
did and um, and it was interesting because it was

(42:03):
definitely a strained rehearsal process, Martha and the director. It
was just tense, but um, I just had the best time.
I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe that I was
in New York. I couldn't believe I was at the Public.
I couldn't believe I was with Kate Burton. And then
so every few years, I've had a pretty good track record,

(42:23):
Like I don't under him for that many plays, but
I have a fairly good track record of booking them.
So like then I did another one at the Public.
I did a play called Barbecue a couple of years ago,
which was amazing, And then I did a thing at
the Westport Country Playhouse. I did hay Fever. And then
the biggest thing I did three years ago, I did
the pre Broadway run of the Steve Martin play Meteor Shower,

(42:45):
which is a four person play that Amy shoot. I
did the part that Amy Schumer played on Broadway in
One to Tony four, so I originated that. And getting
to work with Steve Martin, who I had on my
poster of him on the wall as a child, was incredible.
All and getting you know, it was a part that
was never I think I was off stage once and
I just loved it, and I think, quite honestly, more

(43:07):
and more. And I don't know if this is growing
up with my dad, or being a female, or just
being a human condition, but I think I actually like
getting older because I feel like part of it is
I get. I know that I had my ten thousand
hours under my belt, and I would say the main
difference between doing Boston Marriage and then doing Meteor Shower

(43:28):
was in between. I'd started headlining as a comic, and
in the first one I felt quite insecure that I
hadn't gone to Yale or Juilliard or n y U
grad school. I felt less than. And then I had
many years of headlining under my belt, and I felt like, hell,
I if I do five one hour sets by myself
in a weekend with drunk people in the audience, I

(43:51):
could certainly be the lead in a play. I can
be on stage and hold my own and know how
to modulate and know how to listen to. I know
how to do this, and I'm tired of feeling less.
Then I'm tired of feeling not good enough. I mean,
I did this on my TV. Every summer. I would
go take classes at the ground Links like I think

(44:11):
it literally took until recently for me to just say,
everybody feels like a fraud, so just feel like I'm
not a fraud. I know what I'm doing. Yeah, I
didn't go to Yale. Yeah I wasn't a ground link,
but like that's good enough. I can do this. And
I'm tired of feeling apologetic about like please or am
I like participant? Like I'm just tired of that. That's

(44:33):
the thing I've just hasn't served me over the years. Yeah,
imposta syndrome. Yeah, I mean I've definitely suffered from that.
And you wouldn't believe how many people come to me
and say, younger women, they say, uh, you know, I
feel like I need to be a focused puller and

(44:53):
I need to just you know, get get my time
doing sound, and I need to be in the edit
for Why and then I'll be a director. Whereas the
guys go, I'm going to be a director, and they
kind of joe straight straight to the place where they
want to be, and there's it's just this feeling of
being less than and insecure and not not worthy. I

(45:16):
certainly suffered from that, and I will tell you remember
I read this interesting book after lean In came out,
after the Sheryl Sandberg book came out, there was this
article I read and so I got the book from
these But these women were like, okay, yeah, you're telling
us to lean into. Why aren't people? And they did
all this research that starting from a young age, girls
in school are like, they do better in school often,

(45:39):
and they're but there because they're they're good and there listen,
whereas boys can get in fights or be told. But
they so they learned how to bounce back if they
get in trouble. It's not quite as scary. And that
they were saying in the grad schools that women they
were like, Okay, what's your five year plan? And the
women are like, well, I want to go intern and
you know, and then maybe five years and then try

(46:01):
to get my angel investor and then try to start
my business. And the guys are like, I'll try this,
like I'll just start it now and if it fails,
I'll start this. And I think there's more opportunity now
than there used to be. And I know the last
person holding me back now is me and that my
voice in my head is gonna my little boogeyman is
going to try to stop me, and that I need

(46:23):
to just say thank you for sharing and do it anyway,
and you know, try to work with people that that
I feel comfortable with and that I can say I'm
nervous to do this, but then take the leap anyway,
and that it's okay to feel a little scared. But
that doesn't mean that I have to talk anybody out
of me, you know that, just like throw my hat

(46:44):
in the rain. That's that's That's what I wish I
could tell my younger self of like, it's enough, you're
prepared enough, You've done enough classes. It's you're not too late,
it's enough. Like who you are is enough. Just keep going,
just going. And so you've you've had a good run

(47:06):
in terms of roles recently. And I'm thinking of Shameless,
I'm thinking of Insatiable, which is an example we spoke
about before. If you just absolutely going for it. And
I really wish i'd watched more of your episodes. I
watched quite a few, it's just and I just fell

(47:27):
in love with the show. It's so so much that
I didn't want to jump ahead. I wanted to be
able to watch the whole thing that show that show
was the first show I was on. I had a
female show run or female producers. All of the directors
for the most part where either women or gay men.
And it was dirty and naughty and raunchy and fun.

(47:48):
And they trusted me and they got me, and they
would let me. They would let me like improvise, and
they would like let me do stuff. You know, they
you know, my character was supposed to just be like
they didn't want my character. The network made them add
Dixie's mom. I guess I showed up and was such
a nightmare character that like they started writing for me,

(48:11):
and it made me a regular and based and and
the director had seen Hold a Hole. The director had
seen Hold of Hall. It was like obsessed with hold
a Hall. And they would just let me. They would
like give me a take and let me like just
go for it. And so it was so fun. I
had so was so fun playing a bad guy like
I was just such a terrible person. And this is

(48:34):
a good example once again, if you taking something and
making it your own in a way and building it.
And this is what I would like this section of
the podcast to be about reading. I love it. I
love It is about how you are taking and making
it your own. That's one good example of it. And

(48:55):
again that comes back to what we were talking about
about being insecure and how that voice in your head
can stop you from doing things. And it's really it's
a strange dichotomy because I look at what you've done
and I think, God, it takes extraordinary a level of
brave to be so brave. For example, going on the

(49:15):
Howards Stern Show, I was terrified. Oh my god. I
didn't tell anyone I was going on, because you never
know if he's going to make you a fool. And
I had the best time. I had the best. He
was so sweet. Really, Yeah, it seems like the people
he was hard on are the people that would come
on and try and like have swagger or I just

(49:38):
knew enough to know I was a guest in his
house and to not show up just like to support
and you know, I was on the Beetle Jews, who
I was fond of, you know, and just too that
just to listen and respond and support that I didn't
need to fill the air and just just to be
like just try to like calm down enough of my

(49:59):
skin just to be president and respond to what was happening,
and it was so sweet. They told me not to
ask for a picture, not to and at the end
he asked for a picture, and so like it was.
It was supposed to be five minutes and then it
was like an hour. It was. It was really fun.
I loved him and then so being a headlining stand
up So I understand that that grew out of Chelsea Lately. Well,

(50:20):
you were a panelist. How can you just tell us
how the stand up stand up? Stand up happened? When
I had done stand up a little bit in my
early twenties, which was how I got my agent, but
it really scared me so much, and I think the
world changed. There's a lot more women doing it now.
But I remember I was that I stopped doing stand up,

(50:42):
and so I would do improv every week, but not
stand up. So Chelsea Lately happened and it was like
a late night show on E and I was very
lucky to be a regular panelist, and so every other
week I would be on the show. I was living
in New York at the time, so I would fly
myself in and you know, the panelist made like dollars,
which was fine, Like it truly raised all of our

(51:03):
profiles and it put a name to a face. And
my friend Bobby Lee, who was a comedian who was
on Mad TV with me, he did an intervention on
me and he said, look, Arden, you know I was
basically not making any money because I find myself fan
and buy a little dress and stuff like that. He
was like, you're the only one that's not profiting from this.

(51:24):
Like the show was so popular, and he said, I'm
headlining every weekend, and this is how much money I make. Now,
Bobby is a brilliant comedian and he should make all
the money in the world. Like he's one of the
funny Pardon me, He's one of the funniest stand ups
I've ever seen in my life. But even to make
a fraction of what he was making, He's like, we
have the same credits. So he booked me and Jordan

(51:44):
Peel to open for him like a month later at
the ice House that we each we're gonna do ten minutes.
So he's like, whatever you need to do. So I
went back to New York and I would go do
all these little shows in Brooklyn just to get my
ten minutes together. So I did that at the ice House.
I did a little set at the Ice House, and
then people started hearing I was doing it, and way

(52:05):
too quickly, I started sort of getting booked for things,
and so I like split headline was certainly I should
not have been headlining because I was not really a
stand up. Like, again, just because you can play soccer
doesn't me mean you can play baseball. But it ended
up being such a good thing for me in that
it showed me like he told me to record every

(52:26):
set to listen back to where the audience wanted to laugh,
and I wasn't letting them laugh. He's like, that's where
your set lies, and what you think is your set
is not. You're gonna go out with one idea of
what your stage persona is, and the audience is going
to let you know how they like you. And it
was again everything that I was trying to hide from
the audience, all of my flaws, everything that I thought

(52:47):
was messy or wrong about myself is what the audience liked,
which was very healing for me. And so it became
really more and more just about like the sort of worst,
sneaky secret sides of myself, and that's what people could
relate to. Nobody wants to hang out with a perfect person.
And it was forced me to be number one on
the call sheet. It forced me to not be high,

(53:08):
to be like the quirky weirdo. It forced me to
be the leading lady. It forced me, you know, and
it was terrifying, but it was really really good for me.
And yeah, that's how I started doing stand up again.
It just the thought of doing stand up, it's just
it's absolutely terrifying. And I'm really interested in this. This

(53:31):
something that you and Jan Coopman, who we also talked to,
something that I find really interesting and empowering both is
that when you're doing this type of work, you're building
your own boat, you're making your own podcast, which we'll
talk about with your you're doing stand up, you're writing books.

(53:53):
You have a very clear sense of what your brand is.
So I'm just curious about how you came to the
even the room that you're in now, yes, yes, your brand,
How you came to formulate that brand over the past
however many years, and how you find the objectivity to

(54:18):
be able to look at yourself and say that's my brand,
that's not my brand, this is what I do, this
is not what I do because there's a kind of
a dispassionate and unemotional quality about that that I find
really really interesting. It's an interesting I think it started
with stand up where and I sort of had like

(54:39):
the buddy system my friend Lisa d Larios and I
because I was going back to stand up at thirty five.
You know, that's now when most people start stand up again.
And um, she said to me, she was like Ardent
on stage. You're the kiddy that got into the champagne
bottle and Kitty wants to play. You know, as far
as stand up goes, you know, they're all sort of

(55:00):
different beasts. But I feel like the older I get
and the more sort of life happens. So you know,
in my book, I talked about my mom died suddenly,
not to be morose, but one of the gifts of sudden,
like major grief, um was I think one of my

(55:24):
one of my biggest character defects is I've always been
a people pleaser, and one of the gifts of losing
somebody suddenly was that my body was unable to people
please anymore. It became very clear to me who I
wanted to be with, who I didn't want to be
with what I wanted to do, what I didn't want

(55:44):
to do, both socially but also in terms of work
and what felt and what made me happy, like, you know,
because my life was good when she died suddenly, like
I like, I I did not want to go down
with the ship, you know, and so I know you
have to like feel it to heal it. But I
was also like, I don't. I don't have the luxury
of going to bed for four years. So like like

(56:06):
what I found that making things and being with certain
people was what put Humpty dumpty back together again and
what made me feel better. And so I actually feel
like you know, I think I texted you yesterday. I
really believe in like a gut feeling, and so I
feel like in our I actually believe our bodies. No,

(56:29):
like what's fun for us? Who feels good? What projects
feel good? Like it's a really instinctive thing. And going
back to growing up in that small town of giving
myself enough space and going for walks and stuff to
listen for the creative whispers of what I might want
to make, what might feel fun. So my very silly
podcast I host is about The Bachelor and will you

(56:53):
accept this rose? Will you accept this rose? Right? Which
is such a fun I just love it. I love it.
And you know what it feels like you have been
invited to a great party with very entertaining people and
you'll kind of honored to be there. It's that's like

(57:13):
such a I mean, that's such a wonderful kind description.
Did you create that? You created that from scratch? Yes? Yeah,
tell us about that. I had this vision. I get
like visions of things. So I had this vision in Vermont.
I was sledding on New Year's Eve again. I like
to be quiet some so like I like the nature,

(57:34):
I like the countryside, and like, I think you have
to get quiet sometimes to get your little whispers. So
I was sledding on New Year's Eve six years ago
and I had only watched The Bachelor the year before.
I had no interest in watching it, and then I
found it fascinating and I saw my funny friends were
tweeting about it. And then I realized that The Bachelor

(57:56):
is about to come back on again. And I had
this vision while sledding and verm Want. I was like,
I need to start a podcast. And then I immediately
called the gentleman who made our theme song, Mark Rivers,
and I asked him to write a theme song and
I gave him direction. I was like, I want to
feel really creepy, like very white jumped out of a
bush and it's like breathing on your neck, like just

(58:17):
like really too close talking. And he nailed it. And um,
what started out just for fun has turned into its
own beast and has allowed me to make all these
new friends. It's almost like playing a sport. So it's
like my I feel like I play tennis or I
play or I watch football or something. It's something about

(58:40):
like I have these group of people that when we're
in season, this is what we do together. But again
in a weird way. Hell, it's never life is never
what you think it's going to be. While we were
in season two years in a row, my parents died
one year apart, like in season of The Bachelor, so
they both ide on like Saturdays, and then there was

(59:01):
a Monday episode and I had to decide whether or
not to do the podcast, and I allowed myself to
cancel anything that I didn't want to do, and I chose.
I chose to do it, like I went home. I
forced my sweet brother. I made my brother, so, you know,
because because otherwise how can I explain why am I
in my family living room? And we chose to do it.

(59:22):
And I've never been very personal in my stand up.
I've never been very personal on the podcast. I never
talked much about my personal life, and I couldn't hide
what was happening, and so I I just told people
what was going on and then charted my journey. I
called it on Grief Island during it, like not heavy handedly,

(59:42):
but I was terrified that it was going to frighten
our listeners, that it was going to be too much
to be the only podcast about Bachelor and grave be so.
But it turned out it actually expanded our podcast, that
people really appreciated it, that everyone has on living this
human condition has had some form of something, and that

(01:00:05):
from again, just as I thought with my stand up,
the stuff I didn't want people to see was what
people liked. I certainly didn't want anything depressing or sad
on my Bachelor podcast, and it turned out to be
something that actually enhanced it. And I think in a
weird way, not judging in life, you know that I

(01:00:27):
can do sort of a fancy play in New York
and host a bachelor podcast and talk about grief, like
I think all of it. I really feel like the
velveteen rabbit sort of like the more real I get.
It was like I like trashy TV, and I like
fancy plays, and I like being where you're at. The
people have responded, and in a weird way, I feel

(01:00:49):
like my career has gotten better and better and it's
gotten more specific to me, and it's you know, life
is messy and in session as it's all happening, and
the podcast helped, you know, cheered me up every week
when that was happening. It cheered me up each week
during the pandemic. Again, we were like, should we stopped
during the pandemic? Should we stop during Black Lives matters?

(01:01:10):
Like is it's completely toned up to keep doing this?
And we just chose to keep going. Acknowledge what's happening
in the world, talk about it and like provided distraction
and that people have seemed to respond like I've I
guess more and more I've learned it's okay to tell
the truth about what's happening in life. You can be

(01:01:30):
you can hold opposing things. You can have laughter and
have fun and have a good time and have something
hard happening in your like it can be all of
it and you don't have to hide that. That's been
very that's been the opposite I think of how I
grew up. So your journey is one kind of away
from inauthenticity towards authenticity. Yeah, that I think. I thought

(01:01:53):
if you knew everything, you wouldn't like me. And the
reality is, I think more people know everything, Like the
more you're real, you know, and look, I go to
therapy and I do, like I take care. I'm not
putting my stuff all over everybody. But like I think
the more you can just be authentic, I think people

(01:02:14):
like you more and I think it as for I
think it makes you a better artist. And I'd love
to do a drama. Mm hmm. I'd love to do
a drama. But like, I don't think I'm tap dancing
to hide the man behind the curtain anymore. It's like
I'm holding hands with the man behind the nome. We're
tap dancing together. You know, I'm not trying to hide
from that person. We're holding it. Like me and that

(01:02:36):
little little ginger girl, like we're tap dancing together. Now
she's you know, I have so much compassion for There's
nothing wrong with her. She was fun and cute, you know,
just like I think it's it's integrating all of that.
I think that, uh, you'd be great in a drama.
I would love to do a drama. And second, I
can't think of a better way to and that would beful.

(01:03:02):
So thank you for allowing me to interview you and
to be my kind of experiment. You did so great. Um. Yeah,
I just think that you're a remarkable human and I'm
very lucky to be going on this endeavor together with you.

(01:03:24):
The feeling is so mutual. And I write my little
gratitude list in the morning and you're on every single
one of them. Well, thank you. On I'm going to Um,
I'm going to go and have a nice cup of tea.
Now I'm going to go have a Moscow mule.