June 2, 2022 • 39 mins
Arden and Julie Anne talk with British Councilwoman Jackie Weaver. She gained popularity when a video of her during a city council meeting went viral after she attempted to deal with disruptive mansplaining parish councillors by muting them and ejecting them from the meeting on Zoom. She became a feminist icon!
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
That's no need distress. She's She's lad. Hello and welcome
to a very special bonus episode of Lady of the Road.
(00:33):
My name is Arden Marine, coming to you from Los Angeles, California.
You may know me from Netflix, is Insatiable, from Shameless,
perhaps from my book little miss Little Compton, and I
have joined by my pal my partnering crime, Miss Julie
Anne Robinson. This is this is an episode we have
been I'm going I don't want to make our other
(00:54):
guests feel bad, but I feel that we've been the
most excited and perhaps the most star struck about this person.
And coming on, we have somebody who Julian she really
you were the person who first saw this and it
captured your imagination? Is that correct? Yeah? I mean she's
She's made a huge impact on on the world, and um,
(01:19):
I just want to everybody to know about her. Okay,
this I fully concur I'm gonna go out so far
as to call her a feminist icon. Her name. If
you're not familiar with her, you should be and get
ready to just start googling, because you're gonna your socks
are going to be knocked off. Her name is Jackie Weaver,
(01:40):
she is joining us all the way from England right now,
and she become massively she became massively famous worldwide when
she went viral. Um she was There was a recording
of a parish council meeting, which is basically in England,
it's the equivalent of it here. We would have if
you live in a town, there's a town council meeting
and because of the pandemic, everything has gone on to zoom.
(02:04):
There was a town council meeting and it just it
descended into chaos. Um. And I'm going to say, from
my point of view, it felt like a lot of
the women in the meeting were being very respectful, and
a few of the gentlemen, but there was to say
she got man splained to say she got the The
men were so disruptive, so aggressive, so belittling to her. Um,
(02:30):
and she was running the call and she just kept
her call. And um, she just took charge and booted
out the most disruptive member of the meeting, who also
happened to be the chairman of the parish council. And
since we weren't sure if we were allowed to play
the audio, Julianne and I thought we would do a
(02:51):
little bit of the actor's studio here and we would
act out the most pivotal moments of that meeting. It
wasn't exactly what Jackie said at the key moments of
the Zoom call. It was what she did as she
was being verbally attacked and I have to tell you,
we cannot do this justice and so it just google
Jackie Weaver Parish Council and um, it's so satisfying. She
(03:15):
kept her cool throughout as all these gentlemen were just
screaming at her, and this one after one, she just
took him out like a like a friendly sniper, just
like just they were just gone from the meeting. Does
and she had she betrayed nothing didn't and didn't. She
didn't lower like when they went low. She went high.
She was elegant and just kicked him out of the
zoom meeting. Okay, so this is starting out. The first
(03:38):
person to speak is the chairman. Julianne will be playing
the part of the chairman. I will be playing and
all of the chairman and the vice chairman are male.
So Julianne is a chairman. I'm the vice chairman. Here
we go. It's only the chairman that can remove people
from a meeting. You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver,
no authority at all. Jackie Weaver ejects chairman from the meeting.
(04:03):
She just kicked him out. This is a meeting call
by two counselors. You may now elect a chair. No,
they can't, because I'm the vice chair. The vice chair
is here. I take charge. Read the standing orders, Read
them and understand them. Jackie Weaver ejects vice chairman from
the meeting, and thus a global feminist icon was born.
(04:28):
Jackie Weaver was the hero of the call. She stood
her ground while three grown men literally screamed in her
face and smoothly ejected them all from the call. She
was even the subject of a song by Andrew Lloyd Webber.
Watch and Learn, Ladies and gentlemen, Jackie Weaver, Welcome to
(04:49):
the podcast. Hello Jackie Weaver, Hello them, my goodness woman introduction.
Lu Was I love the idea of being a slip?
I'm really good. Yes, and it's not it's just with
like um, just something like a sleeping pill. You know,
it's like they're not going to take somebody out for good,
(05:09):
but just kind of like no, you get put in
the corner like you get a time out, you know,
like a sniper, a sniper of time out. Well, I
think you have a program over there with her name,
she does super Nannny. Yes, yes, yeah, I was thinking
maybe we should team up. Yes, you would be so
(05:30):
you're the adult version of Supernanny for for men that
can't handle women who in authority be a double act.
I mean she could look after the children and take
parents it truly. I mean I don't know about you, Julianne,
but I would not have handled I mean I don't
(05:51):
think anybody would have handled it as elegantly as you did.
The calm you seem so not rattled, But you also
weren't take like you you you didn't stoop to you
didn't go down to their level. You handled it so elegantly.
Was there were your feathers ruffled at all? As they
were screaming rudely in your face. I don't think anybody,
(06:15):
man or woman can deal with that level of hostility
without being rattled. I mean I had two things going
for me, won't the screen so the distance between and
secondly I was sitting down, But I think I really
should write to Zoom and day to them. You know,
we could do with those buttons on the screen being
(06:37):
a bit bigger, because when your hands are shaking, it's
really hard to get with them bout yes. I mean
when the when the thing for I don't know, like
it was hard to hear you when when the man
has kept saying it was hard to watch somebody say
to you stop talking, stop talking, you know, and and
that you kept your calm was so inspiring. You didn't
(07:00):
let someone talk to you like that, even even if
they were the chairman of the vice chair it was.
It doesn't It didn't look as if you were rattled
at all, to be honest, it didn't look that way,
which is I think that's always great to remember, you know,
because I'm often in a position where there's a lot
of people asking me a lot of questions and on
the inside you're feeling oh, but on the outside it
(07:23):
doesn't come over that way, And I think it's a good,
good lesson. Is there anywhere Is there anything in your
background that you would describe this kind of calm, cool
persona that you present. I guess it probably comes from
what I would call my day job. Um so that
my job is is supporting um. The clerks to do
(07:45):
each of these counsels. UM. And often they are lone workers.
Often they work from home, and often they come across
things that for them are extremely challenging. UM. You know,
sometimes they may feel they have done something something wrong
and there's spent a weekend thinking about it before they
ring me on Monday morning, and that they're absolutely convinced
(08:07):
that they will be at least shot um and possibly
you know, the world will stop turning because they've they've
they've kind of sat with it all weekend. And the
first thing I feel that I need to do is
provide reassurance. I mean, in this life, we all do
things wrong, the kind of jobs that we do, we
(08:30):
can always put it right. You know. It's about reassuring
somebody that, yeah, okay, it might not have been the
right thing to do at the time, but let's get
it back in proportion. So I guess I'm quite used
to doing that. UM. So that I mean often people
say to him when we finished the court, Um, you know,
(08:51):
I feel reassured. And when I hear that, I think, yeah, okay,
that's that's a good part of my job. The technical
stuff we can sort out. I mean, there are our
standing orders and we have to follow them, but you know,
there is a way of doing it. Can you give
an example of the type of thing that people would
get very concerned about that they that they, you know,
(09:13):
made a mistake about Oh, they should have had something
on the schedule of payments for the agenda that's going
to tonight's meeting, but they've forgotten to put it on
mm hmm um. And unfortunately, we we live in a
as you've seen, a society where people have access to
keyboards instantly all the time, and that means that, you know,
(09:37):
whereas one person might have noticed it, you know, ten
years ago, these days, you know, you've got a lot
of people that are saying, oh, you know, that's not right,
that's not right. You know what we're going to do
about it? And it kind of generates this oh my goodness,
and would be really excited about this when we actually
we need to calm it down. It's, you know, we
(09:57):
are becoming this part of the problem rather than kind
of smoothing the situation. Does that make sense? It does?
Is it like everybody wants to be the one in
the right, Yes, absolutely, And also it's very humane. What
(10:19):
you're talking about that you want to kind of help
people find a way through this situation, whether that they
find themselves in. Yeah. I mean, there's no doubt about
it that the you know I t is fabulous. I mean,
it provides me with loads of challenges, but my goodness,
it's it really is um positive. But one of the
(10:41):
things that frustrates the heck out of me is the
CC button. Yeah. Oh yes, me and their cats and
little dog you know on the you know, the email
And somehow we don't understand that copying you in just
means I'm just letting you know, don't do anything with
it away from the keyboard. Can you know I didn't
(11:06):
write it to you. Writing it to you is different.
I want you to do something about it. C. C
means no, it doesn't mean right to me. I know,
I remember a few years ago. I do think it
is because of so much of the Internet and being
(11:26):
more connected and what you're saying, like, I found that
I was much more anxious than I used to be,
And I think that I I consciously decided to try
to be proactive rather than reactive, like really in the morning,
tried to sort of set my day so that people
are going to make you know, everybody else has their
own panicky demands, but that if you know, if like,
(11:48):
what is my main purpose for the day, what do
I need to accomplish? What do I need to be
of service to? So that things are going to come
at me? And if if my tank is empty, I'm
going to be rattled by every single thing. When when
when other people, you know, it feels like almost like
pinball is just bouncing against one another and it was
not a fun way. I feel that it's helped me
(12:08):
a lot to sort of enjoy my my life more.
You know that when you're just reacting to everything, it's
a very and you feel almost like you've always you're
just always correcting something that's wrong. Otherwise. Is there a
moment in your childhood or when you were growing up
where you realize that you had this kind of authority.
(12:31):
I guess you have just a natural sense of authority
and that you could bring this calm kind of approach.
Is there is there was there a pivotal moment for
you or has it been something that's come crept up
on you. I think it's something that grew over time.
I mean, I like to think that I am someone
(12:54):
who reads people little well. I think that it's well written,
the kind of backgrounds people who are good readers usually have,
And because of that, I think it makes me two things.
One able to read people, but also extremely um fraid
(13:19):
it's not the right word sensitive to aggression, Mr Right.
I guess that over the years, I've I've developed a
number of kind of internal mechanisms that allow me to
deal with anything that I perceive as being aggression. Um.
And actually I was really interested in what Arden said
(13:40):
a few minutes ago because actually I feel that what
she was saying was in fact a perfect explanation of
what happened on that night, Because I think if I
had felt on the night that the aggression was targeted
towards me, I might have felt it might have been
(14:01):
harder for me. It probably got to the same place,
but it felt harder for me. I was absolutely clear
on what was going to happen that night. Come Hello,
high water, that meeting was gonna happen, right, And if
I allowed the three that you portrayed so beautifully to interrupt,
(14:21):
they would have hijacked the meeting. It would if had
allowed the chairman to finish saying what he wanted to say.
He would have closed the meeting and there would have
been nothing that could have done about it. There was
another man on the call who so I've never heard
a human whisper like that. It almost sounded like smiggle
from Lord of the Rings. Like it was like he
(14:46):
was in the duo of the I be had but
the duo um. So that's interesting that you set an intention,
set a clear intention, and then just detached and cleared
away as you had to. It's interesting that because I
also have a very hard time with bullies. I find
(15:06):
my dad was very tough and I have actually had
to really work on it because I think as an
adult woman and as a businesswoman, it has hurt me
because there are bullies in business. That's just the deal.
There's bullies in any industry. And I do find my
insides when I encounter a bully something like in the past,
it's really just shut me down and I've almost just
(15:26):
let them win and I'll just leave. I'll leave the
environment just so I don't it's just fight or flight.
I'm complete flight. But the reality is then then they
when it is learning how you were watching you. It
was like a Jedi you know, it was just like
but it was just like you de side steps. I'm
sure it wasn't I'm sure it wasn't pleasant. And I'm
(15:47):
sure after the meeting did you have like did you
feel rattled when you hung up the call? The wine
not but after the yes, I definitely felt la although
by the time that by the time they had left,
there was then a good half hour of normal, you know,
(16:12):
kind of business. John Smith. I love John Smith. John Smith.
It was like, we need to have apologized, we must
apologize to Jackie Weaver. And so first and foremost apologized
to Jackie Weaver. I know you've been asked this a
million times. I do. I'm sorry, Um, we just did
(16:34):
you know that something was happening? When could you first
tell that something was happening in terms of the impact
of that call when we were not arguing, but when
the chairman, you know, and he was he was trying
to kind of draw a line in the sunday over
what time it was m hm, yes, yeah, And I thought, yeah,
(16:54):
here it starts. You kept us trying to start the meeting,
and then he kept fight. He came in looking for
a fight. You know, you were like, Okay, we're here
for the meeting. And then he kept fighting about the meeting.
He's like, okay, well the meetings started, so the meeting
hasn't started, Like okay, well, clearly you're mad about something else, sir.
And then it was just it's been brewing, hadn't it.
(17:16):
You could kind of tell I knew it was going
to be m Yeah. I mean that there was no
doubt about that. I mean the reason I was there
was that, first of all, Back and Alice was December
and December a ten. Yeah my birthday. Yeah, oh thank you,
it's right, perfect birthday party. Great. Yeah. So the chairman
(17:43):
had a month before then suspended the clerk unilaterally and
then equally unilaterally appointed himself Clark, so he was now
Clark and chairman. The process for having a meeting UM
council meeting is you can ask the clerk to call one.
(18:03):
So the other three councilors asked the clerk no, So
then they went to the next procedure, which is asking
the chairman, which is the same person in here. I
think you know what might have happened then, so we
have more rules. We've got rules to cover that two
councilors can call meeting. So that was what they did.
(18:26):
And of course then you can see that the chairman
was hell bent on disrupting that. But that meant that
they had no no infrastructure and no one to even
host the zoom meeting. Um, so they asked my office
if we could send someone. I knew handful had problems.
I wasn't going to send somebody in there without at
(18:51):
least one sniper rifle between and sleep? Sleep? Do you
and sleep? So that was why I ended up being there.
They afraid of you? Were they afraid of you when
they knew that you were going to be there? Were
they a bit intimidated? No? And in fact the three
(19:12):
of them are still completely unrepentant. I'm sure. Yeah. The
chairman keeps telling everyone and writing to everyone who he
can think of to say how bad you treated he
was that night, I'm sure. Well, it was hard to watch.
I mean, there was a full pack of hyenas coming
like the the pack mentality coming after you, the mob
(19:33):
of it, the laughing in your face, I mean, aside
from saying stopped talking, aside from saying you have no authority,
which is already very very very hard to watch. A
pack of men saying this to a woman who is
in a position of authority. They're like, even if you weren't,
just the just the the nature of that, and then
(19:53):
they just start laughing in your face. Like the disrespect
it was. It was very hard to watch. And again,
you really had the last word, I mean in a
way that didn't stoop to their level. It was very inspiring.
(20:13):
It really was inspiring. You had your own back and
and UM, I really admired that very much. And when
did you first realize that in terms of your profile
that things were changing? Oh? Um, that was the Wednesday night,
a Thursday night. Um, somebody sent me a screenshot UM
(20:36):
that said that I was trending number three in the
UK Twitter. No, you know, if you'd actually said to
me you know that there's a you know, I've been
awarded Jedi Nightship, that would have meant as much to me, um.
And so I replied to say something like, oh thanks
(20:58):
for letting me know flew what they meant, um, And
I sent it to my son, thinking well, you know,
if there's anything I need to be concerned about here
and let you know, we didn't hear anything back from him,
So I thought I learned to worry about. So the
following day, my son couldn't get in touch with me.
(21:19):
My phone was completely messages and everything were blocked. It was,
and he contacted my husband and I didn't. I thought
she sent me the wrong thing. I thought she just
forwarded something random to me by mistake. I thought it
was a joke because of course he couldn't knew anything
that his mother would do. Believe perhaps that would possibly,
(21:46):
you know, have have caught anyone's attention. And then my
husband and I get up and outside we've got film
crew and journalists, you know, and then that the press
get bad pressed. Well, so far everybody has been so nice.
I think everyone just to I think everyone just adores you.
(22:10):
I think it was it was truly what what a
fun story? I mean, have you had a good time?
Has this been a positive thing going viral? It's been
hugely positive. I mean I actually have had fun things
to do UM, you know, TV and radio and things
like that. But on the back of it has also
(22:32):
been the opportunity literally to to use it as a
soap box for things that I feel passionately about UM.
And I've been involved with local councils for twenty five
years and for a large part of that have been
trying to sep soapbox now so good, I want to
hear it. I've been trying to increase diversity, um, increase
(22:56):
just awareness in the public that their local councils or
they're getting involved and so you know, the opportunity to
been able to do that, it's been absolutely amazing. What
has been the most pinched me moment was there was
there a show you were on? Was it Woman's Hour? No?
It was and you know some people say to me,
(23:16):
you know, oh you did you choose Woman's Hour? And
I was thinking there are choices in these things. It
was just the first one that asked I've got to
tell everybody what Woman's Hour is. Woman's Hour is is
the most famous, one of the most famous radio programs
in England and has been for how long? How long
(23:39):
has that show been our for thirty years? Maybe it's
one of the most listened to and it's a great
honor to be invited onto Woman's Hour. I've got to say, um,
so sorry you were saying, oh, yes, what was your pinch?
What was your pinch me? Number one? Well, there's two
things that there's one for Jackie Eva and then there's
(24:02):
one kind of soapbox moment um and um, if you
want to see. I mean, I have absolutely no idea
what I said to him, but my my kind of um,
you know Old Ladies dream man is Anton de Beck. Okay,
he was guest presenting. Um, I think it was Good
(24:24):
Morning Britain. I don't even remember the show and um, yeah,
so I met him that morning and I have absolutely
no idea what I said. You also had a song
written about you by Andrew Lloyd Webber. How did that feel?
That was dead? Weird? Was? I don't usually listen to
(24:46):
the radio, you know, kind of find music channels quite
distracting even trying to work. Um, and the song came
on the radio and you know he suddenly hear your
name when you go, um, that's be he thought it
was quite good. Actually, I'm thinking we should be lobbying
(25:08):
for that to be our national anthem. I think what
was your soap bark? Pinched me a moment um when
the National Unit students asked me to be their keynote
speaker at their annual confidence Wow, that's fantastic. You know,
up until now, the idea of you know, anybody, anybody
(25:28):
under six showing much interest. Um, you know has been
it's been an incredibly hard slot. Um. And then you know,
here you are, you're actually getting an approach from them,
never mind trying to chase them down with a lasting mhm.
Those were my two biggest wow majastic still heart Even
(25:50):
now you're just thinking about anton Ago. I love that.
What are you gonna moving forward? I'm really intrigued. What
did you find it? First of all, I guess I
have one question. Did you find it intimidating at all?
This new I mean you're known all over the world.
Now did you find that intimidating? Or did you just
(26:14):
your instinct was to embrace it? Well, it's funny that
you are. What's not funny that you asked? But a
number of people have said, you know, you know my
example of you know, the reporters outside the door, why
didn't you just talk to go away? That's not it
never occurred to me. I mean, it's just I say,
(26:37):
I spent twenty five years of my life trying to
get talent and Polish Council certes. Why on earth would
I say now I love that? You know, it's yeah,
I just it. I can't make sense of the question
if that makes was that like your inner compass that
it actually you know, all roads led to this, and
(26:58):
you've been leading a life of service, and and you're
smart enough to know that I'm going to take Yes, great,
let's do that. I've been I've been preparing. I've got
my ten thousand hours. I've been preparing. Yes, let me talk.
It's so great. And what My second part of the
question is what moving forward? What do you think you're
(27:20):
going to what's your mission now moving forward? That's a
difficult one for Julie. I mean, ever since they started
over a year ago, I kind of always approached it
on the basis of it'll all be gone tomorrow. So
you know, if if it's something that that kind of
fits either with me thinking it's fun, or fits with
(27:43):
the bigger picture of you know, the bigger picture is
getting kind of bigger because you know, we're moving on
from democracy to you generally cut it with the word
for it is, but but generally just kind of treating
people with respectful stop. Um. You know, I that that
agenda seems to have come forward through this as well.
(28:04):
So I've not really had time to think of what something.
I haven't had time to think about it. I kind
of work on the principle that tomorrow you won't be
interested in what I've got to say, so I don't
have a long term strategy next. I have been approached
by a number of agents, but that doesn't feel right.
(28:27):
That kind of feels that it would be driven by
by something else, you know. I mean, don't get me wrong,
And somebody want to payment you do something for of
course that's nice. I don't want to be driven by that.
It sounds like you have a really good inner compass,
that you listen to your gut. You know that you
that your instinct said, yes, I want to go talk
to the reporters about mostly about like public services and stuff,
(28:49):
and no I don't want I don't want to turn
it into something like it. It feels like that you
have a good moral like you know yourself and you
listen to your instinct, say you're you're, you're your own
number one, Like you listen to your gut, which I
think is a really good lesson, and I hope it
leaves me open to you know different. I mean, I'm
(29:11):
talking to you this to me this evening for you
this morning leaves me open to all sorts of interesting things,
things that make me think I haven't thought about it
in that sense, you know that that kind of thing.
I always think that's really positive thing because I assume
everyone sees things same way as I do. Maybe everybody does, right,
(29:32):
So when I hear a bit point, I guess my
first Bob, don't like that very much? Right, and take
it away and think about it. Um decided. Do I
need to change how I thought about this or are
they just wrong? It's like what one of the reasons
(29:52):
for our podcast is to kind of learn lessons, kind
of from people that we admire, and I have learned
so much from this podcast, Like just your whole way
of looking at the world is very refreshing and it's
very focused. Actually, it's very It has a very clear
(30:13):
direction to it, which I think it's hard. It's hard
to find in this day and age of technology and distractions,
and you know, there's so many things pulling at you.
It's great to hear all this. I know that Ms.
Julianne had a question which I thought was I would
also like to know the answer to. But we were
(30:33):
wondering if you see yourself as a feminist icon. Yeah,
I can ask that. The short answer to it is no,
I no, I just not. But then again, I guess
my personal view is more about equality. I don't think
(30:54):
men and women are the same. I think they're equal,
but a sure texts think them not the same. Um.
And you know, I mean some of the things that
have come out of the the meeting was talking about communications. UM.
And my experience tells me that men are actually very
(31:14):
bad communicator, and they shout louder when you didn't hear
them the first time, because it's it seems to be.
And I'm not talking about every man, but you know
a lot of men feel that, you know, that's the
only tool they've got, shout louder. Women are much more subtle.
We we get, we use different means of communication when
(31:35):
more I feel we're more likely if a direct communication
directly saying my point isn't getting through to you, I'm
not likely to shout even louder, and likely to regroup
and find a different way of knocking the knees from
under you. There is an interesting article yesterday in the
(31:56):
paper about it's hard for there's not that many female
economists and then the ones that they are like it
was on the front page of the Times, how um
they did a study and that they were actually able
to quantify it, And they think that it probably happens
in most industries. But for the female economists who go
speak at like who give lectures, the men immediately in
(32:18):
the audience immediately start interrupting and bombarding them with questions
like do you have the proofs? The proof? Where's your slides?
And it's like they're getting to it. They're like, that's
what they're but that they get shut down. They actually
they actually recorded that they get they get bombarded with
questions in a way that's flustering and shutting them down.
(32:41):
Almost immediately as the women are giving their presentation in
a way that the men are allowed and they're they're
all like doctors, you know, like there you know, and
the men are allowed more grace period to sort of
give their presentation. People don't interrupt them and start like
talking over them. And it was it's like you things
that you don't even notice growing up, and I look
(33:04):
back at certain environments I've been, it's like, oh, I
can see that that's I can see that that's the
case that they wouldn't necessary. I don't know. It's just
interesting to me just what you're saying about how a
man will just talk louder or you know, just learning
to not get rattled when you, you know, are faced
with that coming at you, just a sea coming at you,
(33:25):
trying to shut you down. It's holding your calm. I
have a question. Do you think Handforth Council will be abolished? Oh? Um, No,
I don't think it will. Um. I think it's the
whole thing about the Community Governor's Review has been on
the table for a couple of years. What I think
(33:47):
it will do is focus the attention of the people
what I mean handful, but also in wims about you know,
do we really want to be um? You know, two
halves of a coin. Can I ask our key question? Yes, yes,
(34:13):
I was always I'd love to hear that. Okay, what
would what advice would you give your young self? Now
that's our key question at the end of every episode. Okay,
when they say it's not personal, it's personal and you
need to adjust to deal with it. Not then interesting?
(34:35):
And what what does that mean? In what way? You're
not supp explained Fridge magnets, You're just supposed to say
the word okay, okay, sorry, sorry the adjusting adjusting, Yes, yes, yes.
What I mean by it is that it most you know,
as soon as somebody says it's not personal, it is personal. Um,
(34:58):
And they know it is. That's why they introduce is
it with it's not personal? Pet? Yeah? Um. But what
you have to kind of realize yourself is although they
are trying to make it personal, you need to find
within yourself. And it will be different for everyone. We
all have different ways of processing stuff. But you need
(35:18):
to find a way that you can convince yourself it's
not personal because it really is about the issue. If
you can keep focused on the issue, you'll save your soul.
You need to make it not personal. It's up to
you to make that decision and learning how to detach
from difficult personalities or or difficult situations, Learning how to
(35:41):
detach and not take it on just because somebody's throwing
it at you, and then are better at it than Yeah,
I agree with you. My brother is much about he
can compartmentalize anything. He'll go, Okay, it's not personally, it
doesn't care. That sounds good. I'd rather not feel bad today. Great,
it's not you will never think of it again. Right, Well,
this has been fantastic Jackie Weaver. You exceeded our expectations.
(36:06):
We know you're a busy lady. UM, thank you so much.
I consider I just made a friend in England. Well
come and find me again. I would love to. I
would love to. Um, thank you so much for your time,
thank you for your your wisdom and for joining us.
(36:28):
We just um, we really appreciate all of it. Have
a one wonderful evening. Thank you so much, Jackie Weaver,
pless you thank bye, bye bye bye. Oh my god,
you guys, it was Jackie Weaver. That was pretty great.
She was so great. We were on for an hour
(36:49):
with her. We hope that you listeners have enjoyed our
I mean our takeaway. Julianne, Yes, I felt like we
got to talk to Mary happens a little bit about
learning to I think detachment is such a an important
skill that's easy to forget. And also set a mission
(37:12):
or set your set your course, to set your course
even on a daily basis. Yeah, it sounds like and
she's got like a life mission and then every day
she thinks about her mission as just which is what
you say that that's what you do, I'm really impressed. Well,
I've started doing it. I realized what I was doing
(37:36):
wasn't working for me. I was realizing that. I mean,
I feel like, look, life is going to unfold. How
life is going to unfold? And I think as your
life gets bigger, there's more people pulling at you, and
that it's just a matter of taking a moment. Sometimes
I even write out my day in advance, as if
(37:56):
it's already happened, like in a positive way, and um,
accounting for things that I get nervous about. So even
saying like I got nervous, but I showed up early
and I got a nice parking spot and I was nervous,
but like I'll like I will. So it's almost I
think like an athlete going over there game in advance
and um if I have a really scary day, and um,
(38:19):
And it helps me because things are always you know,
that's just life. Things are always curveballs are always going
to come in. But it's learning to take a pause
and say, I think I heard the thing that like
an invitation is not a subpoena or the equivalent of
like just because somebody has text or emailed. I don't
have to deal with it immediately, like I will always
get back to someone, but what was my initial I
(38:42):
don't want to throw my own plans or what was
important to me by the wayside just because somebody else
is demanding something and I can get back to them
when I'm done and I'm ready. And I don't do
it perfectly every day, But that really helped me because
I was I was feeling very just. I felt like
a leaf flowing in the wind, rather than like, let
(39:03):
me just chart my course and then allow for some
course correction. Do you get like that. I think that's great. No,
I'm learning. Look, it's only because I was so completely
stressed out that I was like, this isn't working for me.
This isn't you know, because I had to figure out
(39:25):
a different way it wasn't working for me. Um. Julianne,
what a joy. Thank you so much. I hope our
listeners have enjoyed this until next time. Julianne, what a treat.
Thank you for bringing her into our lives. It was
it wasn't such a treat. My name is Arta Marine
and my name is Julianne Robinson, and we'll see you
(39:45):
next time, goodbye bye,
That's no need distress. She's She's lad. Hello and welcome
to a very special bonus episode of Lady of the Road.
(00:33):
My name is Arden Marine, coming to you from Los Angeles, California.
You may know me from Netflix, is Insatiable, from Shameless,
perhaps from my book little miss Little Compton, and I
have joined by my pal my partnering crime, Miss Julie
Anne Robinson. This is this is an episode we have
been I'm going I don't want to make our other
(00:54):
guests feel bad, but I feel that we've been the
most excited and perhaps the most star struck about this person.
And coming on, we have somebody who Julian she really
you were the person who first saw this and it
captured your imagination? Is that correct? Yeah? I mean she's
She's made a huge impact on on the world, and um,
(01:19):
I just want to everybody to know about her. Okay,
this I fully concur I'm gonna go out so far
as to call her a feminist icon. Her name. If
you're not familiar with her, you should be and get
ready to just start googling, because you're gonna your socks
are going to be knocked off. Her name is Jackie Weaver,
(01:40):
she is joining us all the way from England right now,
and she become massively she became massively famous worldwide when
she went viral. Um she was There was a recording
of a parish council meeting, which is basically in England,
it's the equivalent of it here. We would have if
you live in a town, there's a town council meeting
and because of the pandemic, everything has gone on to zoom.
(02:04):
There was a town council meeting and it just it
descended into chaos. Um. And I'm going to say, from
my point of view, it felt like a lot of
the women in the meeting were being very respectful, and
a few of the gentlemen, but there was to say
she got man splained to say she got the The
men were so disruptive, so aggressive, so belittling to her. Um,
(02:30):
and she was running the call and she just kept
her call. And um, she just took charge and booted
out the most disruptive member of the meeting, who also
happened to be the chairman of the parish council. And
since we weren't sure if we were allowed to play
the audio, Julianne and I thought we would do a
(02:51):
little bit of the actor's studio here and we would
act out the most pivotal moments of that meeting. It
wasn't exactly what Jackie said at the key moments of
the Zoom call. It was what she did as she
was being verbally attacked and I have to tell you,
we cannot do this justice and so it just google
Jackie Weaver Parish Council and um, it's so satisfying. She
(03:15):
kept her cool throughout as all these gentlemen were just
screaming at her, and this one after one, she just
took him out like a like a friendly sniper, just
like just they were just gone from the meeting. Does
and she had she betrayed nothing didn't and didn't. She
didn't lower like when they went low. She went high.
She was elegant and just kicked him out of the
zoom meeting. Okay, so this is starting out. The first
(03:38):
person to speak is the chairman. Julianne will be playing
the part of the chairman. I will be playing and
all of the chairman and the vice chairman are male.
So Julianne is a chairman. I'm the vice chairman. Here
we go. It's only the chairman that can remove people
from a meeting. You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver,
no authority at all. Jackie Weaver ejects chairman from the meeting.
(04:03):
She just kicked him out. This is a meeting call
by two counselors. You may now elect a chair. No,
they can't, because I'm the vice chair. The vice chair
is here. I take charge. Read the standing orders, Read
them and understand them. Jackie Weaver ejects vice chairman from
the meeting, and thus a global feminist icon was born.
(04:28):
Jackie Weaver was the hero of the call. She stood
her ground while three grown men literally screamed in her
face and smoothly ejected them all from the call. She
was even the subject of a song by Andrew Lloyd Webber.
Watch and Learn, Ladies and gentlemen, Jackie Weaver, Welcome to
(04:49):
the podcast. Hello Jackie Weaver, Hello them, my goodness woman introduction.
Lu Was I love the idea of being a slip?
I'm really good. Yes, and it's not it's just with
like um, just something like a sleeping pill. You know,
it's like they're not going to take somebody out for good,
(05:09):
but just kind of like no, you get put in
the corner like you get a time out, you know,
like a sniper, a sniper of time out. Well, I
think you have a program over there with her name,
she does super Nannny. Yes, yes, yeah, I was thinking
maybe we should team up. Yes, you would be so
(05:30):
you're the adult version of Supernanny for for men that
can't handle women who in authority be a double act.
I mean she could look after the children and take
parents it truly. I mean I don't know about you, Julianne,
but I would not have handled I mean I don't
(05:51):
think anybody would have handled it as elegantly as you did.
The calm you seem so not rattled, But you also
weren't take like you you you didn't stoop to you
didn't go down to their level. You handled it so elegantly.
Was there were your feathers ruffled at all? As they
were screaming rudely in your face. I don't think anybody,
(06:15):
man or woman can deal with that level of hostility
without being rattled. I mean I had two things going
for me, won't the screen so the distance between and
secondly I was sitting down, But I think I really
should write to Zoom and day to them. You know,
we could do with those buttons on the screen being
(06:37):
a bit bigger, because when your hands are shaking, it's
really hard to get with them bout yes. I mean
when the when the thing for I don't know, like
it was hard to hear you when when the man
has kept saying it was hard to watch somebody say
to you stop talking, stop talking, you know, and and
that you kept your calm was so inspiring. You didn't
(07:00):
let someone talk to you like that, even even if
they were the chairman of the vice chair it was.
It doesn't It didn't look as if you were rattled
at all, to be honest, it didn't look that way,
which is I think that's always great to remember, you know,
because I'm often in a position where there's a lot
of people asking me a lot of questions and on
the inside you're feeling oh, but on the outside it
(07:23):
doesn't come over that way, And I think it's a good,
good lesson. Is there anywhere Is there anything in your
background that you would describe this kind of calm, cool
persona that you present. I guess it probably comes from
what I would call my day job. Um so that
my job is is supporting um. The clerks to do
(07:45):
each of these counsels. UM. And often they are lone workers.
Often they work from home, and often they come across
things that for them are extremely challenging. UM. You know,
sometimes they may feel they have done something something wrong
and there's spent a weekend thinking about it before they
ring me on Monday morning, and that they're absolutely convinced
(08:07):
that they will be at least shot um and possibly
you know, the world will stop turning because they've they've
they've kind of sat with it all weekend. And the
first thing I feel that I need to do is
provide reassurance. I mean, in this life, we all do
things wrong, the kind of jobs that we do, we
(08:30):
can always put it right. You know. It's about reassuring
somebody that, yeah, okay, it might not have been the
right thing to do at the time, but let's get
it back in proportion. So I guess I'm quite used
to doing that. UM. So that I mean often people
say to him when we finished the court, Um, you know,
(08:51):
I feel reassured. And when I hear that, I think, yeah, okay,
that's that's a good part of my job. The technical
stuff we can sort out. I mean, there are our
standing orders and we have to follow them, but you know,
there is a way of doing it. Can you give
an example of the type of thing that people would
get very concerned about that they that they, you know,
(09:13):
made a mistake about Oh, they should have had something
on the schedule of payments for the agenda that's going
to tonight's meeting, but they've forgotten to put it on
mm hmm um. And unfortunately, we we live in a
as you've seen, a society where people have access to
keyboards instantly all the time, and that means that, you know,
(09:37):
whereas one person might have noticed it, you know, ten
years ago, these days, you know, you've got a lot
of people that are saying, oh, you know, that's not right,
that's not right. You know what we're going to do
about it? And it kind of generates this oh my goodness,
and would be really excited about this when we actually
we need to calm it down. It's, you know, we
(09:57):
are becoming this part of the problem rather than kind
of smoothing the situation. Does that make sense? It does?
Is it like everybody wants to be the one in
the right, Yes, absolutely, And also it's very humane. What
(10:19):
you're talking about that you want to kind of help
people find a way through this situation, whether that they
find themselves in. Yeah. I mean, there's no doubt about
it that the you know I t is fabulous. I mean,
it provides me with loads of challenges, but my goodness,
it's it really is um positive. But one of the
(10:41):
things that frustrates the heck out of me is the
CC button. Yeah. Oh yes, me and their cats and
little dog you know on the you know, the email
And somehow we don't understand that copying you in just
means I'm just letting you know, don't do anything with
it away from the keyboard. Can you know I didn't
(11:06):
write it to you. Writing it to you is different.
I want you to do something about it. C. C
means no, it doesn't mean right to me. I know,
I remember a few years ago. I do think it
is because of so much of the Internet and being
(11:26):
more connected and what you're saying, like, I found that
I was much more anxious than I used to be,
And I think that I I consciously decided to try
to be proactive rather than reactive, like really in the morning,
tried to sort of set my day so that people
are going to make you know, everybody else has their
own panicky demands, but that if you know, if like,
(11:48):
what is my main purpose for the day, what do
I need to accomplish? What do I need to be
of service to? So that things are going to come
at me? And if if my tank is empty, I'm
going to be rattled by every single thing. When when
when other people, you know, it feels like almost like
pinball is just bouncing against one another and it was
not a fun way. I feel that it's helped me
(12:08):
a lot to sort of enjoy my my life more.
You know that when you're just reacting to everything, it's
a very and you feel almost like you've always you're
just always correcting something that's wrong. Otherwise. Is there a
moment in your childhood or when you were growing up
where you realize that you had this kind of authority.
(12:31):
I guess you have just a natural sense of authority
and that you could bring this calm kind of approach.
Is there is there was there a pivotal moment for
you or has it been something that's come crept up
on you. I think it's something that grew over time.
I mean, I like to think that I am someone
(12:54):
who reads people little well. I think that it's well written,
the kind of backgrounds people who are good readers usually have,
And because of that, I think it makes me two things.
One able to read people, but also extremely um fraid
(13:19):
it's not the right word sensitive to aggression, Mr Right.
I guess that over the years, I've I've developed a
number of kind of internal mechanisms that allow me to
deal with anything that I perceive as being aggression. Um.
And actually I was really interested in what Arden said
(13:40):
a few minutes ago because actually I feel that what
she was saying was in fact a perfect explanation of
what happened on that night, Because I think if I
had felt on the night that the aggression was targeted
towards me, I might have felt it might have been
(14:01):
harder for me. It probably got to the same place,
but it felt harder for me. I was absolutely clear
on what was going to happen that night. Come Hello,
high water, that meeting was gonna happen, right, And if
I allowed the three that you portrayed so beautifully to interrupt,
(14:21):
they would have hijacked the meeting. It would if had
allowed the chairman to finish saying what he wanted to say.
He would have closed the meeting and there would have
been nothing that could have done about it. There was
another man on the call who so I've never heard
a human whisper like that. It almost sounded like smiggle
from Lord of the Rings. Like it was like he
(14:46):
was in the duo of the I be had but
the duo um. So that's interesting that you set an intention,
set a clear intention, and then just detached and cleared
away as you had to. It's interesting that because I
also have a very hard time with bullies. I find
(15:06):
my dad was very tough and I have actually had
to really work on it because I think as an
adult woman and as a businesswoman, it has hurt me
because there are bullies in business. That's just the deal.
There's bullies in any industry. And I do find my
insides when I encounter a bully something like in the past,
it's really just shut me down and I've almost just
(15:26):
let them win and I'll just leave. I'll leave the
environment just so I don't it's just fight or flight.
I'm complete flight. But the reality is then then they
when it is learning how you were watching you. It
was like a Jedi you know, it was just like
but it was just like you de side steps. I'm
sure it wasn't I'm sure it wasn't pleasant. And I'm
(15:47):
sure after the meeting did you have like did you
feel rattled when you hung up the call? The wine
not but after the yes, I definitely felt la although
by the time that by the time they had left,
there was then a good half hour of normal, you know,
(16:12):
kind of business. John Smith. I love John Smith. John Smith.
It was like, we need to have apologized, we must
apologize to Jackie Weaver. And so first and foremost apologized
to Jackie Weaver. I know you've been asked this a
million times. I do. I'm sorry, Um, we just did
(16:34):
you know that something was happening? When could you first
tell that something was happening in terms of the impact
of that call when we were not arguing, but when
the chairman, you know, and he was he was trying
to kind of draw a line in the sunday over
what time it was m hm, yes, yeah, And I thought, yeah,
(16:54):
here it starts. You kept us trying to start the meeting,
and then he kept fight. He came in looking for
a fight. You know, you were like, Okay, we're here
for the meeting. And then he kept fighting about the meeting.
He's like, okay, well the meetings started, so the meeting
hasn't started, Like okay, well, clearly you're mad about something else, sir.
And then it was just it's been brewing, hadn't it.
(17:16):
You could kind of tell I knew it was going
to be m Yeah. I mean that there was no
doubt about that. I mean the reason I was there
was that, first of all, Back and Alice was December
and December a ten. Yeah my birthday. Yeah, oh thank you,
it's right, perfect birthday party. Great. Yeah. So the chairman
(17:43):
had a month before then suspended the clerk unilaterally and
then equally unilaterally appointed himself Clark, so he was now
Clark and chairman. The process for having a meeting UM
council meeting is you can ask the clerk to call one.
(18:03):
So the other three councilors asked the clerk no, So
then they went to the next procedure, which is asking
the chairman, which is the same person in here. I
think you know what might have happened then, so we
have more rules. We've got rules to cover that two
councilors can call meeting. So that was what they did.
(18:26):
And of course then you can see that the chairman
was hell bent on disrupting that. But that meant that
they had no no infrastructure and no one to even
host the zoom meeting. Um, so they asked my office
if we could send someone. I knew handful had problems.
I wasn't going to send somebody in there without at
(18:51):
least one sniper rifle between and sleep? Sleep? Do you
and sleep? So that was why I ended up being there.
They afraid of you? Were they afraid of you when
they knew that you were going to be there? Were
they a bit intimidated? No? And in fact the three
(19:12):
of them are still completely unrepentant. I'm sure. Yeah. The
chairman keeps telling everyone and writing to everyone who he
can think of to say how bad you treated he
was that night, I'm sure. Well, it was hard to watch.
I mean, there was a full pack of hyenas coming
like the the pack mentality coming after you, the mob
(19:33):
of it, the laughing in your face, I mean, aside
from saying stopped talking, aside from saying you have no authority,
which is already very very very hard to watch. A
pack of men saying this to a woman who is
in a position of authority. They're like, even if you weren't,
just the just the the nature of that, and then
(19:53):
they just start laughing in your face. Like the disrespect
it was. It was very hard to watch. And again,
you really had the last word, I mean in a
way that didn't stoop to their level. It was very inspiring.
(20:13):
It really was inspiring. You had your own back and
and UM, I really admired that very much. And when
did you first realize that in terms of your profile
that things were changing? Oh? Um, that was the Wednesday night,
a Thursday night. Um, somebody sent me a screenshot UM
(20:36):
that said that I was trending number three in the
UK Twitter. No, you know, if you'd actually said to
me you know that there's a you know, I've been
awarded Jedi Nightship, that would have meant as much to me, um.
And so I replied to say something like, oh thanks
(20:58):
for letting me know flew what they meant, um, And
I sent it to my son, thinking well, you know,
if there's anything I need to be concerned about here
and let you know, we didn't hear anything back from him,
So I thought I learned to worry about. So the
following day, my son couldn't get in touch with me.
(21:19):
My phone was completely messages and everything were blocked. It was,
and he contacted my husband and I didn't. I thought
she sent me the wrong thing. I thought she just
forwarded something random to me by mistake. I thought it
was a joke because of course he couldn't knew anything
that his mother would do. Believe perhaps that would possibly,
(21:46):
you know, have have caught anyone's attention. And then my
husband and I get up and outside we've got film
crew and journalists, you know, and then that the press
get bad pressed. Well, so far everybody has been so nice.
I think everyone just to I think everyone just adores you.
(22:10):
I think it was it was truly what what a
fun story? I mean, have you had a good time?
Has this been a positive thing going viral? It's been
hugely positive. I mean I actually have had fun things
to do UM, you know, TV and radio and things
like that. But on the back of it has also
(22:32):
been the opportunity literally to to use it as a
soap box for things that I feel passionately about UM.
And I've been involved with local councils for twenty five
years and for a large part of that have been
trying to sep soapbox now so good, I want to
hear it. I've been trying to increase diversity, um, increase
(22:56):
just awareness in the public that their local councils or
they're getting involved and so you know, the opportunity to
been able to do that, it's been absolutely amazing. What
has been the most pinched me moment was there was
there a show you were on? Was it Woman's Hour? No?
It was and you know some people say to me,
(23:16):
you know, oh you did you choose Woman's Hour? And
I was thinking there are choices in these things. It
was just the first one that asked I've got to
tell everybody what Woman's Hour is. Woman's Hour is is
the most famous, one of the most famous radio programs
in England and has been for how long? How long
(23:39):
has that show been our for thirty years? Maybe it's
one of the most listened to and it's a great
honor to be invited onto Woman's Hour. I've got to say, um,
so sorry you were saying, oh, yes, what was your pinch?
What was your pinch me? Number one? Well, there's two
things that there's one for Jackie Eva and then there's
(24:02):
one kind of soapbox moment um and um, if you
want to see. I mean, I have absolutely no idea
what I said to him, but my my kind of um,
you know Old Ladies dream man is Anton de Beck. Okay,
he was guest presenting. Um, I think it was Good
(24:24):
Morning Britain. I don't even remember the show and um, yeah,
so I met him that morning and I have absolutely
no idea what I said. You also had a song
written about you by Andrew Lloyd Webber. How did that feel?
That was dead? Weird? Was? I don't usually listen to
(24:46):
the radio, you know, kind of find music channels quite
distracting even trying to work. Um, and the song came
on the radio and you know he suddenly hear your
name when you go, um, that's be he thought it
was quite good. Actually, I'm thinking we should be lobbying
(25:08):
for that to be our national anthem. I think what
was your soap bark? Pinched me a moment um when
the National Unit students asked me to be their keynote
speaker at their annual confidence Wow, that's fantastic. You know,
up until now, the idea of you know, anybody, anybody
(25:28):
under six showing much interest. Um, you know has been
it's been an incredibly hard slot. Um. And then you know,
here you are, you're actually getting an approach from them,
never mind trying to chase them down with a lasting mhm.
Those were my two biggest wow majastic still heart Even
(25:50):
now you're just thinking about anton Ago. I love that.
What are you gonna moving forward? I'm really intrigued. What
did you find it? First of all, I guess I
have one question. Did you find it intimidating at all?
This new I mean you're known all over the world.
Now did you find that intimidating? Or did you just
(26:14):
your instinct was to embrace it? Well, it's funny that
you are. What's not funny that you asked? But a
number of people have said, you know, you know my
example of you know, the reporters outside the door, why
didn't you just talk to go away? That's not it
never occurred to me. I mean, it's just I say,
(26:37):
I spent twenty five years of my life trying to
get talent and Polish Council certes. Why on earth would
I say now I love that? You know, it's yeah,
I just it. I can't make sense of the question
if that makes was that like your inner compass that
it actually you know, all roads led to this, and
(26:58):
you've been leading a life of service, and and you're
smart enough to know that I'm going to take Yes, great,
let's do that. I've been I've been preparing. I've got
my ten thousand hours. I've been preparing. Yes, let me talk.
It's so great. And what My second part of the
question is what moving forward? What do you think you're
(27:20):
going to what's your mission now moving forward? That's a
difficult one for Julie. I mean, ever since they started
over a year ago, I kind of always approached it
on the basis of it'll all be gone tomorrow. So
you know, if if it's something that that kind of
fits either with me thinking it's fun, or fits with
(27:43):
the bigger picture of you know, the bigger picture is
getting kind of bigger because you know, we're moving on
from democracy to you generally cut it with the word
for it is, but but generally just kind of treating
people with respectful stop. Um. You know, I that that
agenda seems to have come forward through this as well.
(28:04):
So I've not really had time to think of what something.
I haven't had time to think about it. I kind
of work on the principle that tomorrow you won't be
interested in what I've got to say, so I don't
have a long term strategy next. I have been approached
by a number of agents, but that doesn't feel right.
(28:27):
That kind of feels that it would be driven by
by something else, you know. I mean, don't get me wrong,
And somebody want to payment you do something for of
course that's nice. I don't want to be driven by that.
It sounds like you have a really good inner compass,
that you listen to your gut. You know that you
that your instinct said, yes, I want to go talk
to the reporters about mostly about like public services and stuff,
(28:49):
and no I don't want I don't want to turn
it into something like it. It feels like that you
have a good moral like you know yourself and you
listen to your instinct, say you're you're, you're your own
number one, Like you listen to your gut, which I
think is a really good lesson, and I hope it
leaves me open to you know different. I mean, I'm
(29:11):
talking to you this to me this evening for you
this morning leaves me open to all sorts of interesting things,
things that make me think I haven't thought about it
in that sense, you know that that kind of thing.
I always think that's really positive thing because I assume
everyone sees things same way as I do. Maybe everybody does, right,
(29:32):
So when I hear a bit point, I guess my
first Bob, don't like that very much? Right, and take
it away and think about it. Um decided. Do I
need to change how I thought about this or are
they just wrong? It's like what one of the reasons
(29:52):
for our podcast is to kind of learn lessons, kind
of from people that we admire, and I have learned
so much from this podcast, Like just your whole way
of looking at the world is very refreshing and it's
very focused. Actually, it's very It has a very clear
(30:13):
direction to it, which I think it's hard. It's hard
to find in this day and age of technology and distractions,
and you know, there's so many things pulling at you.
It's great to hear all this. I know that Ms.
Julianne had a question which I thought was I would
also like to know the answer to. But we were
(30:33):
wondering if you see yourself as a feminist icon. Yeah,
I can ask that. The short answer to it is no,
I no, I just not. But then again, I guess
my personal view is more about equality. I don't think
(30:54):
men and women are the same. I think they're equal,
but a sure texts think them not the same. Um.
And you know, I mean some of the things that
have come out of the the meeting was talking about communications. UM.
And my experience tells me that men are actually very
(31:14):
bad communicator, and they shout louder when you didn't hear
them the first time, because it's it seems to be.
And I'm not talking about every man, but you know
a lot of men feel that, you know, that's the
only tool they've got, shout louder. Women are much more subtle.
We we get, we use different means of communication when
(31:35):
more I feel we're more likely if a direct communication
directly saying my point isn't getting through to you, I'm
not likely to shout even louder, and likely to regroup
and find a different way of knocking the knees from
under you. There is an interesting article yesterday in the
(31:56):
paper about it's hard for there's not that many female
economists and then the ones that they are like it
was on the front page of the Times, how um
they did a study and that they were actually able
to quantify it, And they think that it probably happens
in most industries. But for the female economists who go
speak at like who give lectures, the men immediately in
(32:18):
the audience immediately start interrupting and bombarding them with questions
like do you have the proofs? The proof? Where's your slides?
And it's like they're getting to it. They're like, that's
what they're but that they get shut down. They actually
they actually recorded that they get they get bombarded with
questions in a way that's flustering and shutting them down.
(32:41):
Almost immediately as the women are giving their presentation in
a way that the men are allowed and they're they're
all like doctors, you know, like there you know, and
the men are allowed more grace period to sort of
give their presentation. People don't interrupt them and start like
talking over them. And it was it's like you things
that you don't even notice growing up, and I look
(33:04):
back at certain environments I've been, it's like, oh, I
can see that that's I can see that that's the
case that they wouldn't necessary. I don't know. It's just
interesting to me just what you're saying about how a
man will just talk louder or you know, just learning
to not get rattled when you, you know, are faced
with that coming at you, just a sea coming at you,
(33:25):
trying to shut you down. It's holding your calm. I
have a question. Do you think Handforth Council will be abolished? Oh? Um, No,
I don't think it will. Um. I think it's the
whole thing about the Community Governor's Review has been on
the table for a couple of years. What I think
(33:47):
it will do is focus the attention of the people
what I mean handful, but also in wims about you know,
do we really want to be um? You know, two
halves of a coin. Can I ask our key question? Yes, yes,
(34:13):
I was always I'd love to hear that. Okay, what
would what advice would you give your young self? Now
that's our key question at the end of every episode. Okay,
when they say it's not personal, it's personal and you
need to adjust to deal with it. Not then interesting?
(34:35):
And what what does that mean? In what way? You're
not supp explained Fridge magnets, You're just supposed to say
the word okay, okay, sorry, sorry the adjusting adjusting, Yes, yes, yes.
What I mean by it is that it most you know,
as soon as somebody says it's not personal, it is personal. Um,
(34:58):
And they know it is. That's why they introduce is
it with it's not personal? Pet? Yeah? Um. But what
you have to kind of realize yourself is although they
are trying to make it personal, you need to find
within yourself. And it will be different for everyone. We
all have different ways of processing stuff. But you need
(35:18):
to find a way that you can convince yourself it's
not personal because it really is about the issue. If
you can keep focused on the issue, you'll save your soul.
You need to make it not personal. It's up to
you to make that decision and learning how to detach
from difficult personalities or or difficult situations, Learning how to
(35:41):
detach and not take it on just because somebody's throwing
it at you, and then are better at it than Yeah,
I agree with you. My brother is much about he
can compartmentalize anything. He'll go, Okay, it's not personally, it
doesn't care. That sounds good. I'd rather not feel bad today. Great,
it's not you will never think of it again. Right, Well,
this has been fantastic Jackie Weaver. You exceeded our expectations.
(36:06):
We know you're a busy lady. UM, thank you so much.
I consider I just made a friend in England. Well
come and find me again. I would love to. I
would love to. Um, thank you so much for your time,
thank you for your your wisdom and for joining us.
(36:28):
We just um, we really appreciate all of it. Have
a one wonderful evening. Thank you so much, Jackie Weaver,
pless you thank bye, bye bye bye. Oh my god,
you guys, it was Jackie Weaver. That was pretty great.
She was so great. We were on for an hour
(36:49):
with her. We hope that you listeners have enjoyed our
I mean our takeaway. Julianne, Yes, I felt like we
got to talk to Mary happens a little bit about
learning to I think detachment is such a an important
skill that's easy to forget. And also set a mission
(37:12):
or set your set your course, to set your course
even on a daily basis. Yeah, it sounds like and
she's got like a life mission and then every day
she thinks about her mission as just which is what
you say that that's what you do, I'm really impressed. Well,
I've started doing it. I realized what I was doing
(37:36):
wasn't working for me. I was realizing that. I mean,
I feel like, look, life is going to unfold. How
life is going to unfold? And I think as your
life gets bigger, there's more people pulling at you, and
that it's just a matter of taking a moment. Sometimes
I even write out my day in advance, as if
(37:56):
it's already happened, like in a positive way, and um,
accounting for things that I get nervous about. So even
saying like I got nervous, but I showed up early
and I got a nice parking spot and I was nervous,
but like I'll like I will. So it's almost I
think like an athlete going over there game in advance
and um if I have a really scary day, and um,
(38:19):
And it helps me because things are always you know,
that's just life. Things are always curveballs are always going
to come in. But it's learning to take a pause
and say, I think I heard the thing that like
an invitation is not a subpoena or the equivalent of
like just because somebody has text or emailed. I don't
have to deal with it immediately, like I will always
get back to someone, but what was my initial I
(38:42):
don't want to throw my own plans or what was
important to me by the wayside just because somebody else
is demanding something and I can get back to them
when I'm done and I'm ready. And I don't do
it perfectly every day, But that really helped me because
I was I was feeling very just. I felt like
a leaf flowing in the wind, rather than like, let
(39:03):
me just chart my course and then allow for some
course correction. Do you get like that. I think that's great. No,
I'm learning. Look, it's only because I was so completely
stressed out that I was like, this isn't working for me.
This isn't you know, because I had to figure out
(39:25):
a different way it wasn't working for me. Um. Julianne,
what a joy. Thank you so much. I hope our
listeners have enjoyed this until next time. Julianne, what a treat.
Thank you for bringing her into our lives. It was
it wasn't such a treat. My name is Arta Marine
and my name is Julianne Robinson, and we'll see you
(39:45):
next time, goodbye bye,
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