June 9, 2022 • 49 mins
In the final episode of season one of Lady Of The Road we are releasing the first ever recorded episode of the series! Arden and Julie Anne talk to iconic stand up comedian Jen Kirkman about anxiety, finding her voice, bravery, and owning her truth. The audio quality may be bad, but the conversation is great!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
That's no need distress. She's she's a lady. Oh hello,
welcome to the very first episode ever a Lady of
(00:35):
the Road podcast. My name is Art Marine, and I
am coming to you from my sweltering garage in Los Angeles, California.
Those of you who don't know me, but you're like, Hey,
who's this lady? Who's this lady with the squeaky voice?
Who's this child? But who claims she's a woman who
sounds like a little boy? I don't know what's happening.
My name is Arden Marine. I'm an actress and a
(00:58):
comedian and a podcaster. You might know me from Chelsea
Lately or The Insatiable, Insatiable Instatiable, the Netflix show Insatiable.
I was also on Shameless and Mad TV, and I
also host a podcast, a very hard hitting political podcast
called will You Accept This Rose on I Heart Radio
about the Bachelor franchise. But I digress with me today
(01:22):
is a woman that I met on the television program Suburgatory,
and he is my director, and she was really classy
and British and on and we just liked each other
and we developed a show together. But let me just
introduce her before we get going. This woman has been
(01:44):
nominated for two BAFTA's and a Golden Globe, which is
not anything I've ever said in an intro about anybody
that I've ever talked to in my entire life. She
is a director, she is a producer. She gets it done.
She is also a mother. She gets all of has done.
She has a working mom killing it. She has directed
(02:04):
a lot of things. I mean, it's too numerous to say,
but here's a few of the things that you've probably
watched that she is directed. Good Place, I'm dying up here,
Orange is the New Black Nurse, Jackie Parks, and Wreck.
I mean, the list goes on and on. She developed
a show that was on the air that she produced
last year with Amy Poehler and Ladies and Gentlemen, my
(02:24):
friend and my co host Julie and Rabbits. You. I
did not know you were going to say all that
stuff that's very very nice and all true, and you
know what, I could have run on and on. Well, yeah,
but I'm not sure how many people would have been interested.
The one that people mainly ask about, actually weirdly is
(02:46):
Grey's Anatomy, even though that was like the first show
that I directed in the US, and it was a
long long time ago. I directed from season I finished
on season four, but they, I guess, they started re
showing it and so all my my kid is fifteen,
all his friends, they're just like, oh my God, tell
me about Gray's Anatomy. I did one episode of Grey's Anatomy,
(03:10):
and literally, I've been doing this a long time, and
it was almost it was somehow doing Grey's Anatomy, people
thought You're gonna be okay, you know, I'm finally when
they were not gonna say when are you gonna get
your accounting degree? You know what I mean? It was
like the people who watched that show, I love it,
(03:31):
and then people and it's like the consistency, like people
have not missed an episode. I don't do well with
blood and stuff. I don't do well with needles, and
so I had never seen it. And when I went on,
I was shocked at how handsome, like I didn't realize,
of course I was the fool. I had to get
like a I had like I had to have like
a child's thin wheel put on my neck and I
(03:53):
had like an allergic reaction to shrimp at a wedding
at like the season finale, and of course I was
like jammed into spanks and so the higher hot mail
cast of Grayson Atom he had to like flip me
over and try and jam like an enema thing like
up my hand, and there was like all these hot
actors and I'm the fool on the ground. Anyway, I digress.
(04:14):
There's a gal coming up. Well, you guys actually know
because you clicked on this we're gonna be talking to
Jen Kirkman and you are on her Wikipedia page. I
saw that it said that she developed a pilot the
what is it, The Mighty Quinn, The Mighty Quinn. I
remember that because we were working at Chelsea. She and
I were at Chelsea Lately together and I remember she
sold that and I just thought I always just found
(04:35):
her to be like she she feels really like nor
from like so chic. You know, she's like funny and
chic and talented. And I'll be honest with you, I
get a little nervous around her, like I think she's
so talented that like I get a little intimidated. So
I hope I can keep my cool during the podcast. Yeah,
so intimidated. But I'm very really really curious really curious
(04:58):
because there was a lot of question Jens that I
had when I was working with her that I would
never as it. So let's see, all right, ladies and gentlemen,
let's give her a big round of applause. She's a lady.
Shout out to Mark Rivers are amazing theme songwriter. I
(05:22):
just could not be more into that theme song with
us right now. There's a woman that I believe Julianne
and I are really excited to have with us today.
Is a woman who developed a pilot with Miss Julianne.
She is a very successful stand up comedian. She has
two Netflix specials that are absolutely fantastic. I'm going to
(05:45):
die alone and I feel fine and just keep living.
She is the author of two books, I Know what
I'm doing and Otherwise I tell myself and I can
barely take care of myself Tales from a Happy Life
without Kids. She was also a Ray Dealer roundtable member
on Chelsea Lately, which is where we met. She was
a writer on the marvelous Mrs Mazel. She's an actress
(06:09):
and we just think she's such a fucking great human comedian, writer, Lady,
ladies and gentlemen, Jen Kirk. Wow, that's a great intro.
Thank you. I mean I had I've had so many
bad intros that it's like you've got to give somebody
a proper intro. Is tough enough in this town without
at least here in your credits. I mean, I'll just
(06:30):
say it's like part of being on the road is
those morning radio interviews and no one does research, and
you do small town newspaper interview and they're on Wikipedia
while they're talking to you, and they always managed to
find the least thing you've done, like so you didn't
open mic in nine And I'm like, sure they do.
They often confuse you with other people because I'll get
(06:51):
things they'll they'll they'll like look on Wikipedia and then
they'll think that you're somebody else, and then they will
kind of like try to set you up for something
that you didn't quite do. Then you're going to sort
of go with it like yeah, that no, I've never
had that think of. But it's not what happened. It's
not great. You guys worked together, you and Julianne. Yeah,
(07:11):
oh my god, Jen, that was such a great, such
a great pilot. I'm still so mad that they didn't
take it up, and I know what was the pilot about.
It was called the Mighty Quinn and it was really true.
It was I developed it in my brain after I
had a really devastating breakup a few years ago and
I took a year off of all dating and men
(07:33):
and anything the two years and just to find myself,
you know. And so the pilot version is the woman
is about to turn forty decides to be single. Everyone
thinks it's an overreaction, you know, that kind of thing,
And it was cute. It was. It was very cute,
very close. You're very You're such a good writer, Jen.
I just have to say, like, I've just rewatched your
(07:55):
specials and for those of you who have not seen
her Netflix specials, you you should Paul right now and
run and watch them. You have such a distinct voice,
Like there's nobody else like you on stage. When did
you start to feel like you found your stride and
like when you're like, oh this is who I am
up here? Like when did it click in for you?
(08:16):
Was there a moment? Yeah? You know what's interesting, I
would say it didn't really click until probably five years ago,
you know, And I wouldn't even I don't like going
back to my old specials because sometimes I don't even
hold the same opinions anymore. You know, that changes, or
I find that audiences are changing, and when people watch
them now, they don't get the nuance of some things
(08:36):
I'm saying, and they think it's really serious when it's not.
And so I think part of that can be fixed
with delivery and stuff. And so my style is always evolving.
But when I always knew, hey, I'm this narrative off
the top of my head, seeming uh comedian, I think
I started day one that way, and then I let
(08:59):
them for them is tell me, that's not how you
should do it. That's not what people are doing. I
came up in the very like short jokes absurd ist
kind of those are so hard. I've always envied the
short jokes comedian and I never was a short joke comedian.
No me neither. And I tried it, and I went
against my own brain for about five years, and then
(09:21):
I just became not funny because I wasn't doing it
was organic and so I had I remember this in
my early years in Los Angeles, and I did start
in New York. But you know, you'd go to a
club and do like a showcase set, maybe to try
to get a spot on some kind of festival or
a late night and I would have the gen Type five.
(09:43):
But that was nothing what my stand up was like.
And I knew something was wrong, like, well, don't have
two different selves because one of them isn't going to
be true. And I I didn't become comfortable in knowing
what I was until I started doing the monologues for
the Upright Citizens Brigade Impression Askcat. Those are the best
for those of you who are not familiar. There's two shows,
(10:05):
one of his ascat UCB and there's one called The
Armando that was at IO for many years. But basically
they'll invite a person and they'll get a suggestion from
the audience and they can't prepare anything, and they say, actually,
the people who do prepare like stand ups that try
and jam them material and it's never that good. And
what's fun about it is is you can't prepare, so
(10:25):
they'll throw out like pirate or whatever, and then you
have to just tell a story spur of the moment,
and then they improvised based off of your story. So
you started doing the monologue yeah, so, and I realized, oh,
I am funny when I tell my stories, and my
stories have jokes. But I think when women tell stories,
people see them as stories, and when men tell stories,
they're seen as a genius or someone with jokes. And
(10:46):
I my stories have jokes in them. I was always
I'm like, jokes aren't literally, but um, you know so anyway,
But I would think I became comfortable in who I was.
I mean, honestly, maybe not until four or five years
go where I went. This is my style. It works,
but it's always evolving, like I said, And I think
for me, if any young people ask me for advice,
(11:08):
if they're the same kind of comic, it's like you're
finding out who you are as you go. So it's
probably only going to get better as you get older.
It might take a while. Something there's something you know
that I'd like to just ask both of you, just
from somebody who's outside looking in. And and I have
got similar experiences but not the same. But you said
(11:32):
you you you do the narrative sounding like the improv
sounding type of stand up and I know that both
of you. I know what a workaholic you are. Jim
because I I remember the hours and hours and hours
work that we did on Mighty Quinn, and how much
what goes into that kind of improv sounding throwaway. Is
(11:56):
there a contradiction there? You know that you don't let
the people see the work, do you know what I mean?
I don't want them to see the work in the
bad way, like you go to a I don't know,
a dress that's not sown correctly and it looks like
someone struggled and there's blood stains. Like you don't want
them to see the work because you want them to
(12:17):
be relaxed and comfortable and like you're just doing this
for them. And so I'm not trying to hide the
work in any kind of oh what me work hard,
not that, But you just want them to be comfortable
and feel like it's the first time you're saying it.
I mean, I don't actually I I want them to
know this is planned. I came here to say this.
(12:39):
I'm not actually in the moment, but I wanted to
feel like I'm in the moment telling them yeah. So,
And I do kind of improvise when I talk, and
I never say anything exactly the same way twice, So
I'm not trying to hide anything, but I definitely want
them to feel like I'm not just on autopilot. It
would feel to me unsafe to let them see the
(13:04):
man behind the curtain in a way. But I agree
with I feel like when I started headlining, you know,
and particularly like I still do clubs, like I wish
I could just do theaters. If I do, I do clubs,
I'm back just two clubs. I don't have a beeg
enough audience for theaters. See, I think I would imagine
every Lady Comics stream is to probably just do theaters, Like,
(13:24):
oh yeah for me, Maybe I'm wrong. I'm just speaking
for myself. What I realized when I was touring and
started headlining, and that it was a lot of the
audience came because of Chelsea lately. So you have the
people who wanted the tickets where women were gay men,
and which was like the best crowd. But that meant
a lot of places that at least half of your
(13:46):
audience were the straight guys that were the dates that
bought the tickets, and that they still had to pay
attention and listen to you for like five or fifty minutes,
and a lot of them, you know, good guys but
had never listened to a woman talk for that long.
So I think for me, like there's a little bit
of like sort of tricking them to listen and also
(14:07):
putting in the hours so that I know that I am,
I've done the work and I'm rock solid if there's
some drunk person coming at me, and that I can
improvise because there's there's enough of that ten thousand hours
in there, like just from my own insecurity of not
getting because you don't know what you're going to get
in every audience, or you know you don't. Everyone is
(14:28):
sort of like a taming a lion because there's a
lot of alcohol, it's late at night, you don't know
what you're up against. Like a Friday late show is
a journey. How did you stop being afraid? Like I
find any kind of public speaking terrifying? How do you
stop being afraid in that context of those Friday night
late night or we've talked about it is really confident.
(14:51):
I admire your confidence. Yeah, I've never Yeah, I've never
been afraid to speak on stage. I get what I
call dread when I know something might be off, but
it comes with experience. So there have been many times
in my life where it's like, at this point, I
have specialists on Netflix. I have been touring a long time.
(15:13):
I still know that some of my audience doesn't know
who I am. If I'm playing a club, right and
I don't care. I'm getting paid. It's not at this
point in my journey like the Love of my Life
or comedy So Precious. It's a job and it's like
I'm on stage. I'm getting paid. You can like me
or not. You can seem disinterested. And I'll just say
(15:37):
up front if some people don't really huggle or anything
like that. But I'm not afraid because I know I
know people so well now that they respect me at
least for standing up there. Were you ever afraid, like
in the beginning when you first started touring, Wow, I
might always have been afraid. It's not a quality, you know.
(15:57):
It's it's like a craziness. You know. It's just like
a craziness I have now, I'm telling you, Like, it
wasn't like, oh my god, I'm backstage, I'm afraid. How
can I go out there? Because I had such bad
panic disorder and anxiety disorders my whole life that all
of life was scary to me and getting on the
airplane and getting in a car, Like the only time
that I didn't question myself was on stage, so it
(16:18):
was like a safe space. But obviously there's been times
on stage I'm insecure, I'm angry, I'm all kinds of
feelings that are uncomfortable, but you just like power down
and just get through it. And then at a certain
point you get a little bit of a swinging dip
where it's like, hey, you cannot like me, but you're wrong, Like,
I'm good at this. You know I'm not for everyone,
(16:41):
so funck off. What is your writing process like if
you have a new topic, say you're a new like,
do you actually sit down and write it out and
sit down and write No? Do you just sort of
as you're doing your shows you play with ideas on
stage or yeah. So it's weird because the road used
to be kind of the scary a place where I
thought I had to have everything down, But I stick
(17:06):
new material in on the road in between, so I'll
get an idea. Maybe I'll talk to my mom and
she'll say something funny, and I don't want to just
repeat what she says because that's not really writing. But
it might start there where, you know, maybe my mom
is going on about something, and I'll write it down
in the note section on my phone and I'll think
(17:26):
about it. I'll just sit. I just sit and do
left thinking, you know, when I'm in the shower, when
I'm driving, or when I'm hiking, and I'll think, well,
what's the bigger story I'm trying to tell here with
my mom's story about how she, you know, has only
had sex with my father, you know what am I
trying to say? And I'll go, is there anything from
the back of my mind that I always thought could
(17:46):
be a bit that maybe fits here? Now finally, you know,
and I see the scraps of paper in my mind.
I try to put it together and just ask why
am I saying this? And that helps me, right, like
just always putting my point of view on it. And
then when I'm on stage, it is going to be
improvised for the first time, and I'll record it and
(18:07):
then I seem to go into a zone on stage
where it's very magical and I say things. I get
off stage and don't know what I said, and then
I listened to the thing. So I write on stage,
and then I write it all down later, so that
just in case that my mind goes blank and that
I have to start over. But that's how I write
kind of like five minute bits on the road me too.
(18:28):
That feels so much better, like I have to say
in my brain and my brain, it's like you and
Paul have Tompkins meeting for coffee like like people I admire,
like just sitting writing out tight jokes like at a
coffee shot. I'm not a comedy nerd, so I don't
think about it too much, Like I don't care, does
it make sense, Like I'm not fascinated by when I'm writing,
(18:49):
or I don't hang out with other comedians and right
like I'm pretty far on the fringe of caring. I
don't know if that makes any sense. I have a
question for Julianne. Say you get nervous and shy and
you have to go onto a set. Say you're a
guest director and it's as show you've never done, and
if you get nervous, like that is commanding a ship
(19:10):
that's already in motion, and you know your director number thirteen,
and maybe you've got a crazy actor or a rude
like crew member or whatever, Like how do you as
a as a as a you know, somebody gets nervous.
How do you go command this that? You know? It's
really interesting because I was listening to what Jen was
saying about when she was when she goes on stage
(19:32):
and then maybe there's there's a moment and then you
then you kind of grow into it and you get
swinging Dick. But I feel the same way on set.
I feel like it starts off. You've got to bond
with This is episodic, So episodic TV, you've got a
bond with people very quickly listeners at home. Basically long
(19:54):
running TV shows, A few of them have one director,
but that's very rare. Most of them they are people
say there's twelve episodes in a season, you might have
twelve different directors, and so you're basically coming in sometimes
very famous high school and you're gonna come be the
new principle for a week and so, okay, back to you, Juliet.
So I find because I've been doing it so long,
(20:16):
I guess a bit like Jen, unless something throws you off,
like somebody's rude to you or somebody's obnoxious, as actually
happened to me relatively recently, then you get thrown and
you start looking at yourself and you start thinking, oh,
I'm an impostor. I can't I'm I shouldn't be here,
even though I've been here for like fifteen years. I shouldn't.
I don't deserve to be here. And you can spiral
(20:37):
if you're not careful, and then you just have to
break your way out of it, and meditation helps. So
that's episodic, and then pilot directing, which is different, which
is much more creative. I feel slightly on edge more
during that process because that's creating it from the ground up.
I never feel like I'm there, like I'm fully confident
(20:58):
and that I'm actually there. That's it's quite rare that
I feel that actually still, But I hope I don't
communicate that to the other people on set. So that's
my question back to you. When do you feel like
you're there, You're where you want to be, You're unflappable,
I mean, Jen, you feel like that all the time
when you're on stage. You feel like that's why you belong. Yeah,
(21:23):
it's it's really interesting. I'm always searching for that moment
where I'm unflappable, fully in control in my head because
I hope that that's what is communicate to tell the people. Basically, well,
you know, I couldn't imagine directing. It would scare me.
Running a show. All of that is terrifying to me.
So it's interesting, you know, even walking into a new
(21:46):
room for the first time as a writer, I always
feel I don't belong. I'm not good at this. It's
the worst. So it's it's really interesting that on stage
it's like there's no right or wrong. I made this up,
So I can't be right or wrong or good or
bad at what I do because I made it up.
So you know, I didn't make up stand up. But
you know, it's different than going into a room and
(22:08):
pitching an idea and someone going that's not plot that
story and or story that's pot And I'm like, I
don't know the difference, and I never will. I don't either.
Is there has somebody said that's you, that's a story,
that's plot. Every room I'm in, I'm like, okay, well
use it for something. I don't know what you're saying.
If you sat to New York, did you for Mrs Maisel?
(22:28):
Was the writers from in New York? Yeah? I didn't
move there. But I went and stayed in airbnbs for
ten months and it wasn't that Thank god, that didn't
happen there. But I seemed to really gell there, but
like in other rooms, like for a one hour show recently,
and it ended up going quite well. But the first
five weeks was I was convinced I was getting fired
every second, and it was like, you know, I just
(22:50):
get nervous speaking up and it's only ten people, and
yet I can stand in front of, you know, a
couple hundred strangers no problem. When you started in New York,
because I started doing prob and then I sort of
switched teams and I started doing stand up. I love
the New York comedy scene. I love the small rooms
in Brooklyn. I love the freedom. Like to me, sometimes
in l A, there feels like there's a pressure that
(23:12):
everybody in the audience might have a head shot. I
feel like there's more on the line in l A.
What year were you in New York? What was the
world like when you were starting there. I had a
kind of different experience. I started in Boston and it
was there for a year and a half. Then I
went to New York in two thousand two. So my
really good friend Eugene Merman is who I started with.
He's so good, but he didn't start he didn't moved
(23:33):
to New York till like after I was gone. And
so the only small rooms in New York was one
called Luna Lounge, which was like the big alternative show
that I remember reading about all the way in Boston
and down on Ludlow Down, and it was like Janine
Ruffalo and Mark Marrin and and my girlfriends and I
started a room. Well it was on third and B
(23:54):
called B three, and it was just a restaurant called
B three. We did something in the basement and people
would come and every comic would work out new stuff,
and you know, looking there was still so much sexism that, like,
I didn't have sexist guy friends, so I didn't have
any of that nonsense. But the people from Comedy Central
(24:14):
booked the Luna Lounge. They don't work there anymore, but
they would say these declarative things. And I still was
this very timid person in her twenties, and I thought
grown ups knew everything, and I thought everyone knew everything,
and I knew nothing. So anything you said to me,
I believed and I marched in order and it made
me feel really bad about myself a lot. So they said,
(24:35):
you know, it's not that good to run your own room.
It makes you look kind of like you're outside of
comedy and can't get booked in clubs. Oh my god.
And I was like, well, I can't get booked in clubs,
so that's why I'm doing it. And then my boyfriend
and I at the time ran a room on twenty
three and something, and but all the hot comedians were
doing it, you know, all the people we run with now,
(24:56):
and and I was like, wow, this is bad. And
of course when men do it, it's considered the greatest thing,
and no one even remembers that us girls started doing
it first in the nineties. I came up in the
nineties to Chicago and then to New York and like,
it's funny, because you're right. My buds were fun rascals.
You know. It was Zack and Bobby Tisdale and like,
oh my god. And yeah, Lisa Hilarios. Yeah, so they
(25:19):
were great. They weren't the problem. It was sort of
like the rest of the world. I remember Lisa, a
really big comedy manager who kept telling her you know,
she's this cute comedian to vintage clothes, just cute as
a button. And it was in the air of like Janine.
I mean, she could have booked anything, and they kept
trying to make her wear like mini skirts or like
(25:41):
more revealing tops on stage. Like did you ever feel
like did you feel coming up that you had to
adjust your outfits on stage? Did you plan and outfit
based on being I felt that I needed to be
cute enough that the guys would pay attention, but not
so cute that the ladies would be threatened. I was
(26:01):
not that cute. Like when I first started, I had
like almost a shaved head, and I kind of dressed
like a guy. Like I was kind of androgynous, and
I don't know why. I think I thought I just
better be boyish because comedy has no gender or something.
I think like it wasn't as cool as I was
non binary. It was more like I just need to
hide everything so that people will pay attention. It also
(26:25):
is a little bit from the school of I came
from like a dance background, and the teacher was like,
you wear the black leotard in class and no makeup,
no jewelry because You're here to express the dance and
not your outfits or your nail polish. So I kind
of took that attitude and to stand up like no,
because now you're one of the most view I would
say you and Detassela Jara are best. Dress like you
(26:46):
are a very glamorous stand up on stage and now yeah,
now I like to just be funky and express myself
how I would if I were walking down the street.
There's no difference. But I think at first I was
kind of boyish. And I remember this guy Lou who
was a scout for the Aspen Comedy Festival, saying you're
in sweatpants, and he wasn't wrong. I think he might
have even said this if I were a man. You know.
(27:07):
He's like, you just look like you're rolled out of bed,
and I'm like, what is You know, it is the nineties,
but I never thought about it. But I thought about
it recently. I'll tell you an example. I did this
show there's these shows at the Montre and I'm saying
this to the audience. I know, you know, but there
are these shows. Is a big festival in Montreal, to
the Montreal Comedy Festival. It's a really big deal. In Canada,
(27:28):
there's these televised galas and it's I mean, I hate
to say it's it's not that big of a deal
for an American because we're used to being on TV
lat and so when you do these galas, it'll be
like one famous person hosting it, like Joan Rivers or
Luie Mandel, and then every comic does five minutes. But
it's on TV and you've got to like it's very
stiff and whatever. So I bring my outfits to the gala.
(27:51):
And I did the Alan Cummings gala, and you know,
he's like gay and his audience is crazy and wild fun.
And I had these like leather short short and like
a leather top because I thought that would be kind
of cabaret looking. And I did my set and it
went great, had a good time. Then I was down
on the next gala a few hours later, the Howie
Mandela gala, totally different audience, family friendly. So I brought
(28:14):
a different pair of pants and the pants were making
the camera more and they wouldn't let me wear them,
and I there was no time to go back to
the hotel. There was just they were just like where
those shorts that you were in the other gala it's fine,
and I was like, I can't for this audience. They
won't laugh at a woman doing I don't want kids
jokes in short shorts. It's different. Gay guys can handle it,
(28:35):
married people moms cannot. And I bombed, and I mean,
I'm a successful comic at this point, this material is
on Netflix. I know it's funny, and I just ate ship.
It was beyond bombing, was dead silent, and I just
broke and said, I know it's my outfit. I'm not
an asshole like on TV. Yeah and yeah, but I
(28:58):
knew they weren't gonna air it anyways. It was going
so badly. But I do think that even if it's
not over at least sexism, there is something to outfits
that matter. I mean, even I know Jerry Seinfeld's talked
about it, like he gets to say crazy things he
feels because he's wearing a suit. But so I do
think outfits do matter. It's making me think about when
(29:20):
I first started directing in the theater and there was
this guy and he was like a professional theater director.
It was such a big deal and I was really
excited and I said, do you have any advice for me?
And I'm kind of shure, I'm a little bit small,
and he said, yeah, you need to wear clothes that
make you look bigger. That was his advice, a creative advice,
(29:43):
and exactly I was like, how can I you know,
I really want to make it as a director and
this journey there's not very many women at this point,
there's like one And that was his advice. And do
you know what I actually thought at that moment, No,
I'm not going to do that. Yeah, don't know why.
I was just like, no, I'm going to just wear
(30:03):
my clothes. I've got to be as close. I've got
to be as close to who I am when i'm
directing as I can be. And I still try to
do that. I have a question for both of you,
just hearing Jen talk about that experience when it didn't
go well to me, I feel like in any no
matter what business you're in, what like in comedy it's
(30:24):
called a bomb, but like everybody's had a day at work,
at school, in life where it's just you just keep ship.
Except the best thing is in our Korea, as I guess,
it's so public. Yeah, what was your biggest bomb, and
how do you how did you shake it off? My
biggest one recently that that I really feel was almost
(30:47):
like this shouldn't be happening anymore. I had a longer bomb,
but same thing at a casino in Atlantic City where
I had to do thirty minutes and not five, and
it was thirty minutes of dead silence, and and it
was just like I'm as we be doing a Ted talk.
But I think my biggest like bomb, because it was
also a giant funk up, was back to this guy
(31:10):
Lou who was auditioning me for the Aspen Comedy Festival.
I was only about a year and to stand up.
And I took a flight from Boston to New York
and had such a fear flying. I had to take Klonopin.
I've never got the amount right. I would take much
because I was in a six hour flight. Yeah. Then
I would get off the flight and I would be
(31:33):
fine because like the adrenaline would be running. I wasn't
tired or sleepy, and I went right to the club
to do I had to do a five minute audition
at Catcherizing Star in New York City, and all of
the big producers of this Comedy Festival were there, and
again for anyone listening, it was important to get into
the comedy Festival because once you were there, you could
get like a television deal, and all these big weeks
(31:55):
from l A would come. And so I'm doing my
five minutes, and of course now I have a ring
and then the drink mixes of the quantic bin and
I start babbling and I start riffing because that was
my thing. I would kind of improvise on stage back then.
I'm just like, fuck it, I'm not going with the
planned five minutes that lou approved. I'm gonna and I
(32:16):
riffed like drunk and high, which is so not my thing.
For fifteen minutes, I was running the light. The light
was blinking. It's so rude to other comics, but I
didn't know what was happening. And then he came up
and screamed at me, what were you doing? I believed
in you don't ever talk to me again. You're done
in this business. You know? That was my biggest bomb.
(32:39):
And how did you? How I really feel like in anything,
whether it's whether you want to be a tennis player
or a musician, or you want to like whatever your
thing is like I think, if you can handle a bomb,
you've got a good chance of making it. Like what
advice would you give to somebody in the moment when
(32:59):
it's like the third a minute one if you got
twenty five minutes to go, and then the fact, how
do you take care of yourself? I would just you know,
don't hate yourself. Don't think that this one thing stands
out more than the twenty times it's gone well. But really,
if you want to be a good business person and
and something is not selling, but ask yourself, is this
(33:20):
just a one off? If it is, I have to
let it go. Or is there something in this material?
You know, this something to learn from this moment? Was
I bombing because I wasn't really being who I was?
Was I bombing because I was scared and kind of hiding?
Was I bombing because of I'm weirdly an outfit I
had on that maybe I just wasn't authentic and they
didn't want to hear it. Or is it truly just
(33:40):
not a magic a date or something, or you know,
just like take stock like you would after a business
like if you're a business, so have a business meeting
after and don't be so emotional about it, and don't
believe all your darkest thoughts about how terrible you are.
And I'm sure there are some people that bomb because
they're terrible and eventually they'll have to figure it out. Yeah,
(34:01):
And if you have other friends that are comedians or
even people that aren't your age but are older and
they think you're funny, like, that's usually a good sign.
So you know, but don't get like, oh, the audience
doesn't understand me better, you know, not like that. Now,
you can't blame the audience sometimes, but generally you've got
to be able to wake him up. I'd never been
fired before, and I did a pilot and it got
picked up and I got the phone call, I got
(34:23):
the like we're going to New York, and then they
cut the character like ten minutes later, and then it
was on deadline. And quite honestly, when I saw the pilot,
like during the filming of it, my character went from
being like a dog walker to being like super high
working at like Trader Joe's too that I was like
the best friend of the lead, you know what I mean.
(34:44):
I was like the fun best friend, and then I
was like ran a lady Baker, you know what I mean.
It was like all this sort of like rom com
best friend things, and and as I watched the pilot,
I knew watching it, I was like, oh my god,
I'm not necessary, Like I'm just jammed in. There's no reason,
and for I wouldn't pay for this salary, like structurally,
this doesn't need to be here. But it was the
(35:08):
public fact. It was the deadline. I could have shook
it up. I wouldn't have liked it. But what was
fascinating was how many people reached out to me and
we're like, oh my god, like you're a success now,
Like I got fired from this and I was replaced
by this, and it went on to be this TV
show and like welcome to like your officially. And I
remember I went out. I didn't know what to do.
(35:29):
I went out to Palm Springs and I checked into
a hotel. For two days, I played Candy Crush on
my phone until I got I played like eighty dollars
and boosters and I've never played video games in my life.
I ate tacos. I floated into pool. I did like
three days of Candy Crush, and then I was okay,
you know it was just like the public factor of it, Like,
(35:51):
but you've got to feel it to heal it. So
you don't get this, you know, go morning out, go
stomp it out in the desert so it doesn't leave
like road Mark and the way the guy that directed
that ended up casting me on Instageable and then like
I've just been Thanksgiving with him every year for the
past five years, so like you never know, like, well,
I think that's a good thing too, if like you know,
(36:12):
there's a lot of self destructive types in our business,
and so you've got to be really careful if you
bomb or get recast or whatever. Just don't abuse yourself
or talk shit about anyone involved, because it really might
be that they love you. They might feel, oh my god,
I I'm gonna give her something somebody because she's so
great that this isn't it the star of its doing
(36:33):
like a book tour thing with me? Like truly, all
these wonderful gems came from it. And as a person
who does right, I wasn't needed in this is they
call it's not a great phrasing, but they tell you
have to kill your babies, like sometimes you might. I know,
everybody liked me but it was like, it doesn't serve
the story. There was no need to have this character.
(36:53):
But my ego didn't like it. Yes, but exactly, don't
trash people, and you never know. Two of those people
are my great friends now and amazing. Yeah, I have
a question. I'm always fascinated. Have you ever gone on
an adventure at a road gig jen? Have you ever
(37:15):
hung out with anybody? Have you ever toward the town?
Have you ever like hung with your opener? I went
to Alaska. They were so excited that I was there.
Everybody wanted to like do things with me, and normally
I say no, no, no, but I love I love Christmas.
And I couldn't believe I was near the North Pie, right,
so I love Christmas. And so I was like I
(37:36):
said on a radio show, I can't believe I'm near
the North Pole. And so apparently Santa's houses open three
inner sixty five days a or you can go see Santa's.
I was like, I understand Santa, but I didn't have
a car. And these women called in and they were like, well,
come get you strangers, And then they called the radio
and so I took a picture of the license plate,
like texted it to my friend, like if I go
missing in the woods and with these women, because it
was like an hour drive, and I went with these
(37:58):
two and they captured me. They took me out to
Santa's house. Santa was off duty that day. The way.
He's apparently Santa Claus, whose name the man who Santa Claus.
His name is Santa Claus. And he's on the city
council of the North Pole. And everybody that I told
I was going to the North Pole, I was all excited.
They kept saying, I hope you like meth, and I'm like,
(38:19):
what do you mean to Santa Trouble turns out North
Paul has a lot. Apparently there's a little bit of
meth around. I don't know. Have you ever allowed in
town too? Have you ever just given in and gone
and done something with someone? And I would have done
something like that, I mean, that's what the road can
be so magical with things like that. Yes, but no
(38:39):
I haven't because I also didn't start tour until I
was like in my late thirties. So at that point
I was like, I'm not here, like I don't care,
you know. But when I tore outside of the country,
like I've done. You know, when I go to Melbourne, Australia,
I used to go over a year for like anywhere
from two to six weeks to do this festival there,
(39:01):
And one year I stayed extra and did touring. You
tour with other comedians and you guys play like big
theaters in these small areas and no one knows who
anyone is. They don't. It's the only entertainment that comes,
you know, And so that when I'm in Australia, I'm
a different person. Like on the road, I'm not going
to restaurants and like hanging out with people. But in Australia,
(39:22):
I have like a wine bar that knows me and
I walk in, They're like n It's like cheers, Who
did you tour with? Who is on your Who is
on your tour with you? One kid that ended up
being a really good friend of my named nath Valvo.
I say, kid, I don't always it grow. I can't
remember the other names of the people. But it was
just because it was all local comics. But I know
I never go anywhere in some comedians that some comedians
(39:43):
literally they go hit the bar in the hotel, they
go do all the ship, and I'm like, I go
right to my room, maybe I go to the gym,
I get like Chipotle. I need to power down until
the show. And it's like, God, bless America. But you know,
I've I've lived in New York and l A, in Boston,
and like, I'm sure every city is great, but I'm
not like a big foodie and I don't care and
(40:05):
I don't want to go spend a day. You know.
It's like you come in, especially if it's a one
Sometimes I do do one night shows, one night gigs
instead of like if you're at a club, it's you're
there all weekend. So if I fly in it too
and the shows at seven, that's the whole day is gone.
I'm just doing here in makeup. I love getting room service.
That's usually what I'll do. Um And for me, it's
(40:26):
about being in the hotel and so like I'm a
pretty lady, so I booked my own hotel and I
don't they put me, you know, and so yeah, so
for me, it's all about being in a nice hotel
and that's it. And then I get excited about the show.
And I think sometimes after the show, you have that
like energy high but it's usually pretty late. I used
to have really bad vocal issues, so I had to
be really careful and not speak, so I was always
(40:47):
on vocal rest. So I really didn't do anything. But
my worst nightmare is having to talk strangers maybe after
a show. The most I've done is like, if it's
a nice hotel, like and it's not crowded, like go
sit at the hotel bar with my phone and like
answer tweets from the audience like thanks for coming, and
kind of promote the next night's show and just wind down.
(41:08):
But that's like what I love doing. I get very
like my my routine on the road that we are
wired similarly. Yeah, but now if I'm out of the
country or somewhere like the North Pole, but of course
I'm gonna have an experience and so like when I
went to Australia, I went on this like cable car
up in the sky like the day of the show.
But those that's different. It's like your own show, you know,
doing a ten minute said and you know went on
(41:30):
like a crocodile tour, like what if the audience is
like like can you characterize what the audience is like
in London? Versus like Australia verus like New York. I
used to but then I realized it's all like I
used to think London audiences were really uptight and they
listened too well and needed to laugh more. They treated
(41:51):
everything like it was the theater. But I think that
was like this particular venue that I was in that
the theater, which is great, but they were just starting
to have more stand up comedy. Abscribers were coming, they
weren't sure what it was, and they were listening. They
just you know. And then I got better at what
I did, and then I got specific fans, so then
(42:11):
I would be like, oh, I was wrong about London.
They love it and they're really fun, and I'm like,
but that's all. The variables are always changing, but I
say mostly most crowds, in my opinion, are pretty similar.
I do think London in Australia tend to be a
little tighter. They're like harder to break open. For me.
I found places like Sweden amazing, and most recently Amsterdam.
(42:36):
I felt like I was just in I know, I'd
never been. I really want to live there. I cried
when I left. So I've been to Berlin. Berlin is
a blast. You know, I turned it down. I could
have gone on when I was an infant. You want
to go in the summer it is. There's just like
kids with no parents that are young, just like like
(42:57):
running on this stra like it's people. There's like pinkong
tables out in the park, but nobody's on their phones.
That's great. There was like karaoke in the park that's
not like an official thing. It's just like this outdoor
area and some guy just like bicycles in a like
a speaker and a microphone, and it was just like, wow,
(43:17):
this is a cool city. I want to ask Julianne,
when you shoot on location, do you ever You probably
don't have time. As a director. I just get really tired,
so it's so boring, like fourteen hours on the set.
I want to order room Service and lion bed and
watch TV where people take bad houses and then they
(43:38):
do them up and they make them into nice houses.
That's that's the most I can do when I'm off
on location. TV is my favorite. My favorite movie is
when room service comes in there, Like where do you like?
I'm like, well, on the desk, of course, because that's
where I sit and eat and then the minute they leave,
I bring it onto the bed I do. It's the best.
(44:03):
Jen Kirkman, what a joy I have to to say.
I am so happy to have gotten to chat with you.
I hope anyone got anything fun. I want to say
just a little something. Thank you so much for the
meditation classes online which I just discovered. Have you been
doing it? Jen? Y? Jen? You guys. Jan has been
(44:25):
teaching meditation and like ways to cope with anxiety, and
like she also has these fun videos of her dancing
in her apartment, but like, as a person who has
struggled with anxiety and I have my own coping mechanisms,
just your openness about it and I need to come
take one of them. Have you been enjoying that? I've
(44:46):
loved it more than anything, and it's really nice to
I teach relaxation classes. There's not really meditation, there's like
non meditation meditation, but more physical relaxation and breathing stuff,
and I love it. I can't believe I watch all
these people at really doing what I'm saying, and I
mean that a controlling way. I just they're trying to
get some relief and it I get moved. I almost
(45:06):
start to cry every it's really nice. But yeah, So
here's my final stand up question. And this was just
as a selfish a selfish question as a gal who
is worthy, like as a more storytelling I have always
struggled with this dear fact that you could do a
tight five in Alan Cummings and short leather shorts and
(45:26):
have it go well. How when you have to get
it together? How do you win know it? How do
you what is your process of like when you have
to do a short, tight set, how do you approach that?
I suck the life out of what should be a
twenty five minute set, and I just take the setups
and punchlines of things that I don't have many opportunities
(45:48):
for that. So if I had to do it again
that same night, I wouldn't have any you know. So
most of my tighter, shorter jokes are about not having
kids or whatever, which I don't even care about anymore,
but it's their short jokes and let's just do it.
So I just do that in a row and I
try to act like there's some kind of narrative where
I'm like, but there usually isn't. Usually you're just saying
(46:12):
a set up and saying a punchline and acting completely
out of your depth, and then you just keep going.
The paychecks great for five minutes. That's that's what's running
through my head. Is the paycheck, the paycheck? Five minutes.
Is this what you wanted to be when you were
a little No, I didn't know that was a job,
you know. I just wanted to be an entertainment like acting,
(46:34):
show girl, dancer, actress. You know. I wanted to be
a show girl too. I wanted to be like a
zig feiled folly, like like I wanted to be like
with a big feather headset and all that stuff. Well,
you and I are from I think, the last generation
that actually watched things that weren't our generation and didn't
know none of that stuff exists anymore. Like I wanted
(46:54):
to be a tap dancer, and so that was like,
you know, as though people in movies were tap dancing anymore.
It was all like it was all like like bugsby
Berkeley Musical. It's just uh buzz buzby Berkeley. Like we
had three stations and they would play like or they
play like a thin man. I was like, I want
to be I want to be Nora, you know, it's
like that was from a long time ago. Yeah, no,
(47:19):
that's I wanted to girls anymore, as that would be
so fun. I would love it. I wanted to be
a cigarette girl in the Rainbow room so badly. That
was such a joy. It's probably like the big sexual
harassment job of all time, but it sounds it looked
so cute. Oh that little outfits? Are you kidding me?
We should do a photo with Robin von Swank dressed
up a cigarette girls. That'd be great, that'd be great.
(47:43):
All right, who was your favorite comic that? Who was
your first comic that really blew your mind? And you're like, wow,
I want to try that, like who razzled you? It's
gonna make no sense because I'm nothing like him. But
I remember seeing Sam kinn Isn't in George Carlin on TV,
and I remember George carr And had a bit about
closed mouth screaming and it was something he would do
(48:04):
in school and the nuns walked by and they wouldn't
know where the screaming was coming from. And I remember
it didn't make me want to be a comic, but
I remember going, oh, weird, that's like a something a
kid would say but he's a grown up. Like it
just went, huh, that's cool. He gets me, you know.
I just thought that was cool. And then in real life, honestly,
any stand up that I saw live it seemed like magic.
(48:25):
I'd probably be embarrassed to the people that I thought
were funny. It was like anyone on stage. I was like, Wow, Gallagher,
this is great. Yeah, good well, Jenn loves Gallagher. Jen,
You're so it's just such a joy to watch you.
It's such a joy. Didn't see you're like you really
feel like just in the pocket, like you're so in
your own skin, you know, and both as a human
(48:48):
and on stage and in your writing. You guys, this
was a joy. Thanks for having me Hard Marine and
is it my partner Julianne Probinson Stacafe. You guys have fun.
Buy by
That's no need distress. She's she's a lady. Oh hello,
welcome to the very first episode ever a Lady of
(00:35):
the Road podcast. My name is Art Marine, and I
am coming to you from my sweltering garage in Los Angeles, California.
Those of you who don't know me, but you're like, Hey,
who's this lady? Who's this lady with the squeaky voice?
Who's this child? But who claims she's a woman who
sounds like a little boy? I don't know what's happening.
My name is Arden Marine. I'm an actress and a
(00:58):
comedian and a podcaster. You might know me from Chelsea
Lately or The Insatiable, Insatiable Instatiable, the Netflix show Insatiable.
I was also on Shameless and Mad TV, and I
also host a podcast, a very hard hitting political podcast
called will You Accept This Rose on I Heart Radio
about the Bachelor franchise. But I digress with me today
(01:22):
is a woman that I met on the television program Suburgatory,
and he is my director, and she was really classy
and British and on and we just liked each other
and we developed a show together. But let me just
introduce her before we get going. This woman has been
(01:44):
nominated for two BAFTA's and a Golden Globe, which is
not anything I've ever said in an intro about anybody
that I've ever talked to in my entire life. She
is a director, she is a producer. She gets it done.
She is also a mother. She gets all of has done.
She has a working mom killing it. She has directed
(02:04):
a lot of things. I mean, it's too numerous to say,
but here's a few of the things that you've probably
watched that she is directed. Good Place, I'm dying up here,
Orange is the New Black Nurse, Jackie Parks, and Wreck.
I mean, the list goes on and on. She developed
a show that was on the air that she produced
last year with Amy Poehler and Ladies and Gentlemen, my
(02:24):
friend and my co host Julie and Rabbits. You. I
did not know you were going to say all that
stuff that's very very nice and all true, and you
know what, I could have run on and on. Well, yeah,
but I'm not sure how many people would have been interested.
The one that people mainly ask about, actually weirdly is
(02:46):
Grey's Anatomy, even though that was like the first show
that I directed in the US, and it was a
long long time ago. I directed from season I finished
on season four, but they, I guess, they started re
showing it and so all my my kid is fifteen,
all his friends, they're just like, oh my God, tell
me about Gray's Anatomy. I did one episode of Grey's Anatomy,
(03:10):
and literally, I've been doing this a long time, and
it was almost it was somehow doing Grey's Anatomy, people
thought You're gonna be okay, you know, I'm finally when
they were not gonna say when are you gonna get
your accounting degree? You know what I mean? It was
like the people who watched that show, I love it,
(03:31):
and then people and it's like the consistency, like people
have not missed an episode. I don't do well with
blood and stuff. I don't do well with needles, and
so I had never seen it. And when I went on,
I was shocked at how handsome, like I didn't realize,
of course I was the fool. I had to get
like a I had like I had to have like
a child's thin wheel put on my neck and I
(03:53):
had like an allergic reaction to shrimp at a wedding
at like the season finale, and of course I was
like jammed into spanks and so the higher hot mail
cast of Grayson Atom he had to like flip me
over and try and jam like an enema thing like
up my hand, and there was like all these hot
actors and I'm the fool on the ground. Anyway, I digress.
(04:14):
There's a gal coming up. Well, you guys actually know
because you clicked on this we're gonna be talking to
Jen Kirkman and you are on her Wikipedia page. I
saw that it said that she developed a pilot the
what is it, The Mighty Quinn, The Mighty Quinn. I
remember that because we were working at Chelsea. She and
I were at Chelsea Lately together and I remember she
sold that and I just thought I always just found
(04:35):
her to be like she she feels really like nor
from like so chic. You know, she's like funny and
chic and talented. And I'll be honest with you, I
get a little nervous around her, like I think she's
so talented that like I get a little intimidated. So
I hope I can keep my cool during the podcast. Yeah,
so intimidated. But I'm very really really curious really curious
(04:58):
because there was a lot of question Jens that I
had when I was working with her that I would
never as it. So let's see, all right, ladies and gentlemen,
let's give her a big round of applause. She's a lady.
Shout out to Mark Rivers are amazing theme songwriter. I
(05:22):
just could not be more into that theme song with
us right now. There's a woman that I believe Julianne
and I are really excited to have with us today.
Is a woman who developed a pilot with Miss Julianne.
She is a very successful stand up comedian. She has
two Netflix specials that are absolutely fantastic. I'm going to
(05:45):
die alone and I feel fine and just keep living.
She is the author of two books, I Know what
I'm doing and Otherwise I tell myself and I can
barely take care of myself Tales from a Happy Life
without Kids. She was also a Ray Dealer roundtable member
on Chelsea Lately, which is where we met. She was
a writer on the marvelous Mrs Mazel. She's an actress
(06:09):
and we just think she's such a fucking great human comedian, writer, Lady,
ladies and gentlemen, Jen Kirk. Wow, that's a great intro.
Thank you. I mean I had I've had so many
bad intros that it's like you've got to give somebody
a proper intro. Is tough enough in this town without
at least here in your credits. I mean, I'll just
(06:30):
say it's like part of being on the road is
those morning radio interviews and no one does research, and
you do small town newspaper interview and they're on Wikipedia
while they're talking to you, and they always managed to
find the least thing you've done, like so you didn't
open mic in nine And I'm like, sure they do.
They often confuse you with other people because I'll get
(06:51):
things they'll they'll they'll like look on Wikipedia and then
they'll think that you're somebody else, and then they will
kind of like try to set you up for something
that you didn't quite do. Then you're going to sort
of go with it like yeah, that no, I've never
had that think of. But it's not what happened. It's
not great. You guys worked together, you and Julianne. Yeah,
(07:11):
oh my god, Jen, that was such a great, such
a great pilot. I'm still so mad that they didn't
take it up, and I know what was the pilot about.
It was called the Mighty Quinn and it was really true.
It was I developed it in my brain after I
had a really devastating breakup a few years ago and
I took a year off of all dating and men
(07:33):
and anything the two years and just to find myself,
you know. And so the pilot version is the woman
is about to turn forty decides to be single. Everyone
thinks it's an overreaction, you know, that kind of thing,
And it was cute. It was. It was very cute,
very close. You're very You're such a good writer, Jen.
I just have to say, like, I've just rewatched your
(07:55):
specials and for those of you who have not seen
her Netflix specials, you you should Paul right now and
run and watch them. You have such a distinct voice,
Like there's nobody else like you on stage. When did
you start to feel like you found your stride and
like when you're like, oh this is who I am
up here? Like when did it click in for you?
(08:16):
Was there a moment? Yeah? You know what's interesting, I
would say it didn't really click until probably five years ago,
you know, And I wouldn't even I don't like going
back to my old specials because sometimes I don't even
hold the same opinions anymore. You know, that changes, or
I find that audiences are changing, and when people watch
them now, they don't get the nuance of some things
(08:36):
I'm saying, and they think it's really serious when it's not.
And so I think part of that can be fixed
with delivery and stuff. And so my style is always evolving.
But when I always knew, hey, I'm this narrative off
the top of my head, seeming uh comedian, I think
I started day one that way, and then I let
(08:59):
them for them is tell me, that's not how you
should do it. That's not what people are doing. I
came up in the very like short jokes absurd ist
kind of those are so hard. I've always envied the
short jokes comedian and I never was a short joke comedian.
No me neither. And I tried it, and I went
against my own brain for about five years, and then
(09:21):
I just became not funny because I wasn't doing it
was organic and so I had I remember this in
my early years in Los Angeles, and I did start
in New York. But you know, you'd go to a
club and do like a showcase set, maybe to try
to get a spot on some kind of festival or
a late night and I would have the gen Type five.
(09:43):
But that was nothing what my stand up was like.
And I knew something was wrong, like, well, don't have
two different selves because one of them isn't going to
be true. And I I didn't become comfortable in knowing
what I was until I started doing the monologues for
the Upright Citizens Brigade Impression Askcat. Those are the best
for those of you who are not familiar. There's two shows,
(10:05):
one of his ascat UCB and there's one called The
Armando that was at IO for many years. But basically
they'll invite a person and they'll get a suggestion from
the audience and they can't prepare anything, and they say, actually,
the people who do prepare like stand ups that try
and jam them material and it's never that good. And
what's fun about it is is you can't prepare, so
(10:25):
they'll throw out like pirate or whatever, and then you
have to just tell a story spur of the moment,
and then they improvised based off of your story. So
you started doing the monologue yeah, so, and I realized, oh,
I am funny when I tell my stories, and my
stories have jokes. But I think when women tell stories,
people see them as stories, and when men tell stories,
they're seen as a genius or someone with jokes. And
(10:46):
I my stories have jokes in them. I was always
I'm like, jokes aren't literally, but um, you know so anyway,
But I would think I became comfortable in who I was.
I mean, honestly, maybe not until four or five years
go where I went. This is my style. It works,
but it's always evolving, like I said, And I think
for me, if any young people ask me for advice,
(11:08):
if they're the same kind of comic, it's like you're
finding out who you are as you go. So it's
probably only going to get better as you get older.
It might take a while. Something there's something you know
that I'd like to just ask both of you, just
from somebody who's outside looking in. And and I have
got similar experiences but not the same. But you said
(11:32):
you you you do the narrative sounding like the improv
sounding type of stand up and I know that both
of you. I know what a workaholic you are. Jim
because I I remember the hours and hours and hours
work that we did on Mighty Quinn, and how much
what goes into that kind of improv sounding throwaway. Is
(11:56):
there a contradiction there? You know that you don't let
the people see the work, do you know what I mean?
I don't want them to see the work in the
bad way, like you go to a I don't know,
a dress that's not sown correctly and it looks like
someone struggled and there's blood stains. Like you don't want
them to see the work because you want them to
(12:17):
be relaxed and comfortable and like you're just doing this
for them. And so I'm not trying to hide the
work in any kind of oh what me work hard,
not that, But you just want them to be comfortable
and feel like it's the first time you're saying it.
I mean, I don't actually I I want them to
know this is planned. I came here to say this.
(12:39):
I'm not actually in the moment, but I wanted to
feel like I'm in the moment telling them yeah. So,
And I do kind of improvise when I talk, and
I never say anything exactly the same way twice, So
I'm not trying to hide anything, but I definitely want
them to feel like I'm not just on autopilot. It
would feel to me unsafe to let them see the
(13:04):
man behind the curtain in a way. But I agree
with I feel like when I started headlining, you know,
and particularly like I still do clubs, like I wish
I could just do theaters. If I do, I do clubs,
I'm back just two clubs. I don't have a beeg
enough audience for theaters. See, I think I would imagine
every Lady Comics stream is to probably just do theaters, Like,
(13:24):
oh yeah for me, Maybe I'm wrong. I'm just speaking
for myself. What I realized when I was touring and
started headlining, and that it was a lot of the
audience came because of Chelsea lately. So you have the
people who wanted the tickets where women were gay men,
and which was like the best crowd. But that meant
a lot of places that at least half of your
(13:46):
audience were the straight guys that were the dates that
bought the tickets, and that they still had to pay
attention and listen to you for like five or fifty minutes,
and a lot of them, you know, good guys but
had never listened to a woman talk for that long.
So I think for me, like there's a little bit
of like sort of tricking them to listen and also
(14:07):
putting in the hours so that I know that I am,
I've done the work and I'm rock solid if there's
some drunk person coming at me, and that I can
improvise because there's there's enough of that ten thousand hours
in there, like just from my own insecurity of not
getting because you don't know what you're going to get
in every audience, or you know you don't. Everyone is
(14:28):
sort of like a taming a lion because there's a
lot of alcohol, it's late at night, you don't know
what you're up against. Like a Friday late show is
a journey. How did you stop being afraid? Like I
find any kind of public speaking terrifying? How do you
stop being afraid in that context of those Friday night
late night or we've talked about it is really confident.
(14:51):
I admire your confidence. Yeah, I've never Yeah, I've never
been afraid to speak on stage. I get what I
call dread when I know something might be off, but
it comes with experience. So there have been many times
in my life where it's like, at this point, I
have specialists on Netflix. I have been touring a long time.
(15:13):
I still know that some of my audience doesn't know
who I am. If I'm playing a club, right and
I don't care. I'm getting paid. It's not at this
point in my journey like the Love of my Life
or comedy So Precious. It's a job and it's like
I'm on stage. I'm getting paid. You can like me
or not. You can seem disinterested. And I'll just say
(15:37):
up front if some people don't really huggle or anything
like that. But I'm not afraid because I know I
know people so well now that they respect me at
least for standing up there. Were you ever afraid, like
in the beginning when you first started touring, Wow, I
might always have been afraid. It's not a quality, you know.
(15:57):
It's it's like a craziness. You know. It's just like
a craziness I have now, I'm telling you, Like, it
wasn't like, oh my god, I'm backstage, I'm afraid. How
can I go out there? Because I had such bad
panic disorder and anxiety disorders my whole life that all
of life was scary to me and getting on the
airplane and getting in a car, Like the only time
that I didn't question myself was on stage, so it
(16:18):
was like a safe space. But obviously there's been times
on stage I'm insecure, I'm angry, I'm all kinds of
feelings that are uncomfortable, but you just like power down
and just get through it. And then at a certain
point you get a little bit of a swinging dip
where it's like, hey, you cannot like me, but you're wrong, Like,
I'm good at this. You know I'm not for everyone,
(16:41):
so funck off. What is your writing process like if
you have a new topic, say you're a new like,
do you actually sit down and write it out and
sit down and write No? Do you just sort of
as you're doing your shows you play with ideas on
stage or yeah. So it's weird because the road used
to be kind of the scary a place where I
thought I had to have everything down, But I stick
(17:06):
new material in on the road in between, so I'll
get an idea. Maybe I'll talk to my mom and
she'll say something funny, and I don't want to just
repeat what she says because that's not really writing. But
it might start there where, you know, maybe my mom
is going on about something, and I'll write it down
in the note section on my phone and I'll think
(17:26):
about it. I'll just sit. I just sit and do
left thinking, you know, when I'm in the shower, when
I'm driving, or when I'm hiking, and I'll think, well,
what's the bigger story I'm trying to tell here with
my mom's story about how she, you know, has only
had sex with my father, you know what am I
trying to say? And I'll go, is there anything from
the back of my mind that I always thought could
(17:46):
be a bit that maybe fits here? Now finally, you know,
and I see the scraps of paper in my mind.
I try to put it together and just ask why
am I saying this? And that helps me, right, like
just always putting my point of view on it. And
then when I'm on stage, it is going to be
improvised for the first time, and I'll record it and
(18:07):
then I seem to go into a zone on stage
where it's very magical and I say things. I get
off stage and don't know what I said, and then
I listened to the thing. So I write on stage,
and then I write it all down later, so that
just in case that my mind goes blank and that
I have to start over. But that's how I write
kind of like five minute bits on the road me too.
(18:28):
That feels so much better, like I have to say
in my brain and my brain, it's like you and
Paul have Tompkins meeting for coffee like like people I admire,
like just sitting writing out tight jokes like at a
coffee shot. I'm not a comedy nerd, so I don't
think about it too much, Like I don't care, does
it make sense, Like I'm not fascinated by when I'm writing,
(18:49):
or I don't hang out with other comedians and right
like I'm pretty far on the fringe of caring. I
don't know if that makes any sense. I have a
question for Julianne. Say you get nervous and shy and
you have to go onto a set. Say you're a
guest director and it's as show you've never done, and
if you get nervous, like that is commanding a ship
(19:10):
that's already in motion, and you know your director number thirteen,
and maybe you've got a crazy actor or a rude
like crew member or whatever, Like how do you as
a as a as a you know, somebody gets nervous.
How do you go command this that? You know? It's
really interesting because I was listening to what Jen was
saying about when she was when she goes on stage
(19:32):
and then maybe there's there's a moment and then you
then you kind of grow into it and you get
swinging Dick. But I feel the same way on set.
I feel like it starts off. You've got to bond
with This is episodic, So episodic TV, you've got a
bond with people very quickly listeners at home. Basically long
(19:54):
running TV shows, A few of them have one director,
but that's very rare. Most of them they are people
say there's twelve episodes in a season, you might have
twelve different directors, and so you're basically coming in sometimes
very famous high school and you're gonna come be the
new principle for a week and so, okay, back to you, Juliet.
So I find because I've been doing it so long,
(20:16):
I guess a bit like Jen, unless something throws you off,
like somebody's rude to you or somebody's obnoxious, as actually
happened to me relatively recently, then you get thrown and
you start looking at yourself and you start thinking, oh,
I'm an impostor. I can't I'm I shouldn't be here,
even though I've been here for like fifteen years. I shouldn't.
I don't deserve to be here. And you can spiral
(20:37):
if you're not careful, and then you just have to
break your way out of it, and meditation helps. So
that's episodic, and then pilot directing, which is different, which
is much more creative. I feel slightly on edge more
during that process because that's creating it from the ground up.
I never feel like I'm there, like I'm fully confident
(20:58):
and that I'm actually there. That's it's quite rare that
I feel that actually still, But I hope I don't
communicate that to the other people on set. So that's
my question back to you. When do you feel like
you're there, You're where you want to be, You're unflappable,
I mean, Jen, you feel like that all the time
when you're on stage. You feel like that's why you belong. Yeah,
(21:23):
it's it's really interesting. I'm always searching for that moment
where I'm unflappable, fully in control in my head because
I hope that that's what is communicate to tell the people. Basically, well,
you know, I couldn't imagine directing. It would scare me.
Running a show. All of that is terrifying to me.
So it's interesting, you know, even walking into a new
(21:46):
room for the first time as a writer, I always
feel I don't belong. I'm not good at this. It's
the worst. So it's it's really interesting that on stage
it's like there's no right or wrong. I made this up,
So I can't be right or wrong or good or
bad at what I do because I made it up.
So you know, I didn't make up stand up. But
you know, it's different than going into a room and
(22:08):
pitching an idea and someone going that's not plot that
story and or story that's pot And I'm like, I
don't know the difference, and I never will. I don't either.
Is there has somebody said that's you, that's a story,
that's plot. Every room I'm in, I'm like, okay, well
use it for something. I don't know what you're saying.
If you sat to New York, did you for Mrs Maisel?
(22:28):
Was the writers from in New York? Yeah? I didn't
move there. But I went and stayed in airbnbs for
ten months and it wasn't that Thank god, that didn't
happen there. But I seemed to really gell there, but
like in other rooms, like for a one hour show recently,
and it ended up going quite well. But the first
five weeks was I was convinced I was getting fired
every second, and it was like, you know, I just
(22:50):
get nervous speaking up and it's only ten people, and
yet I can stand in front of, you know, a
couple hundred strangers no problem. When you started in New York,
because I started doing prob and then I sort of
switched teams and I started doing stand up. I love
the New York comedy scene. I love the small rooms
in Brooklyn. I love the freedom. Like to me, sometimes
in l A, there feels like there's a pressure that
(23:12):
everybody in the audience might have a head shot. I
feel like there's more on the line in l A.
What year were you in New York? What was the
world like when you were starting there. I had a
kind of different experience. I started in Boston and it
was there for a year and a half. Then I
went to New York in two thousand two. So my
really good friend Eugene Merman is who I started with.
He's so good, but he didn't start he didn't moved
(23:33):
to New York till like after I was gone. And
so the only small rooms in New York was one
called Luna Lounge, which was like the big alternative show
that I remember reading about all the way in Boston
and down on Ludlow Down, and it was like Janine
Ruffalo and Mark Marrin and and my girlfriends and I
started a room. Well it was on third and B
(23:54):
called B three, and it was just a restaurant called
B three. We did something in the basement and people
would come and every comic would work out new stuff,
and you know, looking there was still so much sexism that, like,
I didn't have sexist guy friends, so I didn't have
any of that nonsense. But the people from Comedy Central
(24:14):
booked the Luna Lounge. They don't work there anymore, but
they would say these declarative things. And I still was
this very timid person in her twenties, and I thought
grown ups knew everything, and I thought everyone knew everything,
and I knew nothing. So anything you said to me,
I believed and I marched in order and it made
me feel really bad about myself a lot. So they said,
(24:35):
you know, it's not that good to run your own room.
It makes you look kind of like you're outside of
comedy and can't get booked in clubs. Oh my god.
And I was like, well, I can't get booked in clubs,
so that's why I'm doing it. And then my boyfriend
and I at the time ran a room on twenty
three and something, and but all the hot comedians were
doing it, you know, all the people we run with now,
(24:56):
and and I was like, wow, this is bad. And
of course when men do it, it's considered the greatest thing,
and no one even remembers that us girls started doing
it first in the nineties. I came up in the
nineties to Chicago and then to New York and like,
it's funny, because you're right. My buds were fun rascals.
You know. It was Zack and Bobby Tisdale and like,
oh my god. And yeah, Lisa Hilarios. Yeah, so they
(25:19):
were great. They weren't the problem. It was sort of
like the rest of the world. I remember Lisa, a
really big comedy manager who kept telling her you know,
she's this cute comedian to vintage clothes, just cute as
a button. And it was in the air of like Janine.
I mean, she could have booked anything, and they kept
trying to make her wear like mini skirts or like
(25:41):
more revealing tops on stage. Like did you ever feel
like did you feel coming up that you had to
adjust your outfits on stage? Did you plan and outfit
based on being I felt that I needed to be
cute enough that the guys would pay attention, but not
so cute that the ladies would be threatened. I was
(26:01):
not that cute. Like when I first started, I had
like almost a shaved head, and I kind of dressed
like a guy. Like I was kind of androgynous, and
I don't know why. I think I thought I just
better be boyish because comedy has no gender or something.
I think like it wasn't as cool as I was
non binary. It was more like I just need to
hide everything so that people will pay attention. It also
(26:25):
is a little bit from the school of I came
from like a dance background, and the teacher was like,
you wear the black leotard in class and no makeup,
no jewelry because You're here to express the dance and
not your outfits or your nail polish. So I kind
of took that attitude and to stand up like no,
because now you're one of the most view I would
say you and Detassela Jara are best. Dress like you
(26:46):
are a very glamorous stand up on stage and now yeah,
now I like to just be funky and express myself
how I would if I were walking down the street.
There's no difference. But I think at first I was
kind of boyish. And I remember this guy Lou who
was a scout for the Aspen Comedy Festival, saying you're
in sweatpants, and he wasn't wrong. I think he might
have even said this if I were a man. You know.
(27:07):
He's like, you just look like you're rolled out of bed,
and I'm like, what is You know, it is the nineties,
but I never thought about it. But I thought about
it recently. I'll tell you an example. I did this
show there's these shows at the Montre and I'm saying
this to the audience. I know, you know, but there
are these shows. Is a big festival in Montreal, to
the Montreal Comedy Festival. It's a really big deal. In Canada,
(27:28):
there's these televised galas and it's I mean, I hate
to say it's it's not that big of a deal
for an American because we're used to being on TV
lat and so when you do these galas, it'll be
like one famous person hosting it, like Joan Rivers or
Luie Mandel, and then every comic does five minutes. But
it's on TV and you've got to like it's very
stiff and whatever. So I bring my outfits to the gala.
(27:51):
And I did the Alan Cummings gala, and you know,
he's like gay and his audience is crazy and wild fun.
And I had these like leather short short and like
a leather top because I thought that would be kind
of cabaret looking. And I did my set and it
went great, had a good time. Then I was down
on the next gala a few hours later, the Howie
Mandela gala, totally different audience, family friendly. So I brought
(28:14):
a different pair of pants and the pants were making
the camera more and they wouldn't let me wear them,
and I there was no time to go back to
the hotel. There was just they were just like where
those shorts that you were in the other gala it's fine,
and I was like, I can't for this audience. They
won't laugh at a woman doing I don't want kids
jokes in short shorts. It's different. Gay guys can handle it,
(28:35):
married people moms cannot. And I bombed, and I mean,
I'm a successful comic at this point, this material is
on Netflix. I know it's funny, and I just ate ship.
It was beyond bombing, was dead silent, and I just
broke and said, I know it's my outfit. I'm not
an asshole like on TV. Yeah and yeah, but I
(28:58):
knew they weren't gonna air it anyways. It was going
so badly. But I do think that even if it's
not over at least sexism, there is something to outfits
that matter. I mean, even I know Jerry Seinfeld's talked
about it, like he gets to say crazy things he
feels because he's wearing a suit. But so I do
think outfits do matter. It's making me think about when
(29:20):
I first started directing in the theater and there was
this guy and he was like a professional theater director.
It was such a big deal and I was really
excited and I said, do you have any advice for me?
And I'm kind of shure, I'm a little bit small,
and he said, yeah, you need to wear clothes that
make you look bigger. That was his advice, a creative advice,
(29:43):
and exactly I was like, how can I you know,
I really want to make it as a director and
this journey there's not very many women at this point,
there's like one And that was his advice. And do
you know what I actually thought at that moment, No,
I'm not going to do that. Yeah, don't know why.
I was just like, no, I'm going to just wear
(30:03):
my clothes. I've got to be as close. I've got
to be as close to who I am when i'm
directing as I can be. And I still try to
do that. I have a question for both of you,
just hearing Jen talk about that experience when it didn't
go well to me, I feel like in any no
matter what business you're in, what like in comedy it's
(30:24):
called a bomb, but like everybody's had a day at work,
at school, in life where it's just you just keep ship.
Except the best thing is in our Korea, as I guess,
it's so public. Yeah, what was your biggest bomb, and
how do you how did you shake it off? My
biggest one recently that that I really feel was almost
(30:47):
like this shouldn't be happening anymore. I had a longer bomb,
but same thing at a casino in Atlantic City where
I had to do thirty minutes and not five, and
it was thirty minutes of dead silence, and and it
was just like I'm as we be doing a Ted talk.
But I think my biggest like bomb, because it was
also a giant funk up, was back to this guy
(31:10):
Lou who was auditioning me for the Aspen Comedy Festival.
I was only about a year and to stand up.
And I took a flight from Boston to New York
and had such a fear flying. I had to take Klonopin.
I've never got the amount right. I would take much
because I was in a six hour flight. Yeah. Then
I would get off the flight and I would be
(31:33):
fine because like the adrenaline would be running. I wasn't
tired or sleepy, and I went right to the club
to do I had to do a five minute audition
at Catcherizing Star in New York City, and all of
the big producers of this Comedy Festival were there, and
again for anyone listening, it was important to get into
the comedy Festival because once you were there, you could
get like a television deal, and all these big weeks
(31:55):
from l A would come. And so I'm doing my
five minutes, and of course now I have a ring
and then the drink mixes of the quantic bin and
I start babbling and I start riffing because that was
my thing. I would kind of improvise on stage back then.
I'm just like, fuck it, I'm not going with the
planned five minutes that lou approved. I'm gonna and I
(32:16):
riffed like drunk and high, which is so not my thing.
For fifteen minutes, I was running the light. The light
was blinking. It's so rude to other comics, but I
didn't know what was happening. And then he came up
and screamed at me, what were you doing? I believed
in you don't ever talk to me again. You're done
in this business. You know? That was my biggest bomb.
(32:39):
And how did you? How I really feel like in anything,
whether it's whether you want to be a tennis player
or a musician, or you want to like whatever your
thing is like I think, if you can handle a bomb,
you've got a good chance of making it. Like what
advice would you give to somebody in the moment when
(32:59):
it's like the third a minute one if you got
twenty five minutes to go, and then the fact, how
do you take care of yourself? I would just you know,
don't hate yourself. Don't think that this one thing stands
out more than the twenty times it's gone well. But really,
if you want to be a good business person and
and something is not selling, but ask yourself, is this
(33:20):
just a one off? If it is, I have to
let it go. Or is there something in this material?
You know, this something to learn from this moment? Was
I bombing because I wasn't really being who I was?
Was I bombing because I was scared and kind of hiding?
Was I bombing because of I'm weirdly an outfit I
had on that maybe I just wasn't authentic and they
didn't want to hear it. Or is it truly just
(33:40):
not a magic a date or something, or you know,
just like take stock like you would after a business
like if you're a business, so have a business meeting
after and don't be so emotional about it, and don't
believe all your darkest thoughts about how terrible you are.
And I'm sure there are some people that bomb because
they're terrible and eventually they'll have to figure it out. Yeah,
(34:01):
And if you have other friends that are comedians or
even people that aren't your age but are older and
they think you're funny, like, that's usually a good sign.
So you know, but don't get like, oh, the audience
doesn't understand me better, you know, not like that. Now,
you can't blame the audience sometimes, but generally you've got
to be able to wake him up. I'd never been
fired before, and I did a pilot and it got
picked up and I got the phone call, I got
(34:23):
the like we're going to New York, and then they
cut the character like ten minutes later, and then it
was on deadline. And quite honestly, when I saw the pilot,
like during the filming of it, my character went from
being like a dog walker to being like super high
working at like Trader Joe's too that I was like
the best friend of the lead, you know what I mean.
(34:44):
I was like the fun best friend, and then I
was like ran a lady Baker, you know what I mean.
It was like all this sort of like rom com
best friend things, and and as I watched the pilot,
I knew watching it, I was like, oh my god,
I'm not necessary, Like I'm just jammed in. There's no reason,
and for I wouldn't pay for this salary, like structurally,
this doesn't need to be here. But it was the
(35:08):
public fact. It was the deadline. I could have shook
it up. I wouldn't have liked it. But what was
fascinating was how many people reached out to me and
we're like, oh my god, like you're a success now,
Like I got fired from this and I was replaced
by this, and it went on to be this TV
show and like welcome to like your officially. And I
remember I went out. I didn't know what to do.
(35:29):
I went out to Palm Springs and I checked into
a hotel. For two days, I played Candy Crush on
my phone until I got I played like eighty dollars
and boosters and I've never played video games in my life.
I ate tacos. I floated into pool. I did like
three days of Candy Crush, and then I was okay,
you know it was just like the public factor of it, Like,
(35:51):
but you've got to feel it to heal it. So
you don't get this, you know, go morning out, go
stomp it out in the desert so it doesn't leave
like road Mark and the way the guy that directed
that ended up casting me on Instageable and then like
I've just been Thanksgiving with him every year for the
past five years, so like you never know, like, well,
I think that's a good thing too, if like you know,
(36:12):
there's a lot of self destructive types in our business,
and so you've got to be really careful if you
bomb or get recast or whatever. Just don't abuse yourself
or talk shit about anyone involved, because it really might
be that they love you. They might feel, oh my god,
I I'm gonna give her something somebody because she's so
great that this isn't it the star of its doing
(36:33):
like a book tour thing with me? Like truly, all
these wonderful gems came from it. And as a person
who does right, I wasn't needed in this is they
call it's not a great phrasing, but they tell you
have to kill your babies, like sometimes you might. I know,
everybody liked me but it was like, it doesn't serve
the story. There was no need to have this character.
(36:53):
But my ego didn't like it. Yes, but exactly, don't
trash people, and you never know. Two of those people
are my great friends now and amazing. Yeah, I have
a question. I'm always fascinated. Have you ever gone on
an adventure at a road gig jen? Have you ever
(37:15):
hung out with anybody? Have you ever toward the town?
Have you ever like hung with your opener? I went
to Alaska. They were so excited that I was there.
Everybody wanted to like do things with me, and normally
I say no, no, no, but I love I love Christmas.
And I couldn't believe I was near the North Pie, right,
so I love Christmas. And so I was like I
(37:36):
said on a radio show, I can't believe I'm near
the North Pole. And so apparently Santa's houses open three
inner sixty five days a or you can go see Santa's.
I was like, I understand Santa, but I didn't have
a car. And these women called in and they were like, well,
come get you strangers, And then they called the radio
and so I took a picture of the license plate,
like texted it to my friend, like if I go
missing in the woods and with these women, because it
was like an hour drive, and I went with these
(37:58):
two and they captured me. They took me out to
Santa's house. Santa was off duty that day. The way.
He's apparently Santa Claus, whose name the man who Santa Claus.
His name is Santa Claus. And he's on the city
council of the North Pole. And everybody that I told
I was going to the North Pole, I was all excited.
They kept saying, I hope you like meth, and I'm like,
(38:19):
what do you mean to Santa Trouble turns out North
Paul has a lot. Apparently there's a little bit of
meth around. I don't know. Have you ever allowed in
town too? Have you ever just given in and gone
and done something with someone? And I would have done
something like that, I mean, that's what the road can
be so magical with things like that. Yes, but no
(38:39):
I haven't because I also didn't start tour until I
was like in my late thirties. So at that point
I was like, I'm not here, like I don't care,
you know. But when I tore outside of the country,
like I've done. You know, when I go to Melbourne, Australia,
I used to go over a year for like anywhere
from two to six weeks to do this festival there,
(39:01):
And one year I stayed extra and did touring. You
tour with other comedians and you guys play like big
theaters in these small areas and no one knows who
anyone is. They don't. It's the only entertainment that comes,
you know, And so that when I'm in Australia, I'm
a different person. Like on the road, I'm not going
to restaurants and like hanging out with people. But in Australia,
(39:22):
I have like a wine bar that knows me and
I walk in, They're like n It's like cheers, Who
did you tour with? Who is on your Who is
on your tour with you? One kid that ended up
being a really good friend of my named nath Valvo.
I say, kid, I don't always it grow. I can't
remember the other names of the people. But it was
just because it was all local comics. But I know
I never go anywhere in some comedians that some comedians
(39:43):
literally they go hit the bar in the hotel, they
go do all the ship, and I'm like, I go
right to my room, maybe I go to the gym,
I get like Chipotle. I need to power down until
the show. And it's like, God, bless America. But you know,
I've I've lived in New York and l A, in Boston,
and like, I'm sure every city is great, but I'm
not like a big foodie and I don't care and
(40:05):
I don't want to go spend a day. You know.
It's like you come in, especially if it's a one
Sometimes I do do one night shows, one night gigs
instead of like if you're at a club, it's you're
there all weekend. So if I fly in it too
and the shows at seven, that's the whole day is gone.
I'm just doing here in makeup. I love getting room service.
That's usually what I'll do. Um And for me, it's
(40:26):
about being in the hotel and so like I'm a
pretty lady, so I booked my own hotel and I
don't they put me, you know, and so yeah, so
for me, it's all about being in a nice hotel
and that's it. And then I get excited about the show.
And I think sometimes after the show, you have that
like energy high but it's usually pretty late. I used
to have really bad vocal issues, so I had to
be really careful and not speak, so I was always
(40:47):
on vocal rest. So I really didn't do anything. But
my worst nightmare is having to talk strangers maybe after
a show. The most I've done is like, if it's
a nice hotel, like and it's not crowded, like go
sit at the hotel bar with my phone and like
answer tweets from the audience like thanks for coming, and
kind of promote the next night's show and just wind down.
(41:08):
But that's like what I love doing. I get very
like my my routine on the road that we are
wired similarly. Yeah, but now if I'm out of the
country or somewhere like the North Pole, but of course
I'm gonna have an experience and so like when I
went to Australia, I went on this like cable car
up in the sky like the day of the show.
But those that's different. It's like your own show, you know,
doing a ten minute said and you know went on
(41:30):
like a crocodile tour, like what if the audience is
like like can you characterize what the audience is like
in London? Versus like Australia verus like New York. I
used to but then I realized it's all like I
used to think London audiences were really uptight and they
listened too well and needed to laugh more. They treated
(41:51):
everything like it was the theater. But I think that
was like this particular venue that I was in that
the theater, which is great, but they were just starting
to have more stand up comedy. Abscribers were coming, they
weren't sure what it was, and they were listening. They
just you know. And then I got better at what
I did, and then I got specific fans, so then
(42:11):
I would be like, oh, I was wrong about London.
They love it and they're really fun, and I'm like,
but that's all. The variables are always changing, but I
say mostly most crowds, in my opinion, are pretty similar.
I do think London in Australia tend to be a
little tighter. They're like harder to break open. For me.
I found places like Sweden amazing, and most recently Amsterdam.
(42:36):
I felt like I was just in I know, I'd
never been. I really want to live there. I cried
when I left. So I've been to Berlin. Berlin is
a blast. You know, I turned it down. I could
have gone on when I was an infant. You want
to go in the summer it is. There's just like
kids with no parents that are young, just like like
(42:57):
running on this stra like it's people. There's like pinkong
tables out in the park, but nobody's on their phones.
That's great. There was like karaoke in the park that's
not like an official thing. It's just like this outdoor
area and some guy just like bicycles in a like
a speaker and a microphone, and it was just like, wow,
(43:17):
this is a cool city. I want to ask Julianne,
when you shoot on location, do you ever You probably
don't have time. As a director. I just get really tired,
so it's so boring, like fourteen hours on the set.
I want to order room Service and lion bed and
watch TV where people take bad houses and then they
(43:38):
do them up and they make them into nice houses.
That's that's the most I can do when I'm off
on location. TV is my favorite. My favorite movie is
when room service comes in there, Like where do you like?
I'm like, well, on the desk, of course, because that's
where I sit and eat and then the minute they leave,
I bring it onto the bed I do. It's the best.
(44:03):
Jen Kirkman, what a joy I have to to say.
I am so happy to have gotten to chat with you.
I hope anyone got anything fun. I want to say
just a little something. Thank you so much for the
meditation classes online which I just discovered. Have you been
doing it? Jen? Y? Jen? You guys. Jan has been
(44:25):
teaching meditation and like ways to cope with anxiety, and
like she also has these fun videos of her dancing
in her apartment, but like, as a person who has
struggled with anxiety and I have my own coping mechanisms,
just your openness about it and I need to come
take one of them. Have you been enjoying that? I've
(44:46):
loved it more than anything, and it's really nice to
I teach relaxation classes. There's not really meditation, there's like
non meditation meditation, but more physical relaxation and breathing stuff,
and I love it. I can't believe I watch all
these people at really doing what I'm saying, and I
mean that a controlling way. I just they're trying to
get some relief and it I get moved. I almost
(45:06):
start to cry every it's really nice. But yeah, So
here's my final stand up question. And this was just
as a selfish a selfish question as a gal who
is worthy, like as a more storytelling I have always
struggled with this dear fact that you could do a
tight five in Alan Cummings and short leather shorts and
(45:26):
have it go well. How when you have to get
it together? How do you win know it? How do
you what is your process of like when you have
to do a short, tight set, how do you approach that?
I suck the life out of what should be a
twenty five minute set, and I just take the setups
and punchlines of things that I don't have many opportunities
(45:48):
for that. So if I had to do it again
that same night, I wouldn't have any you know. So
most of my tighter, shorter jokes are about not having
kids or whatever, which I don't even care about anymore,
but it's their short jokes and let's just do it.
So I just do that in a row and I
try to act like there's some kind of narrative where
I'm like, but there usually isn't. Usually you're just saying
(46:12):
a set up and saying a punchline and acting completely
out of your depth, and then you just keep going.
The paychecks great for five minutes. That's that's what's running
through my head. Is the paycheck, the paycheck? Five minutes.
Is this what you wanted to be when you were
a little No, I didn't know that was a job,
you know. I just wanted to be an entertainment like acting,
(46:34):
show girl, dancer, actress. You know. I wanted to be
a show girl too. I wanted to be like a
zig feiled folly, like like I wanted to be like
with a big feather headset and all that stuff. Well,
you and I are from I think, the last generation
that actually watched things that weren't our generation and didn't
know none of that stuff exists anymore. Like I wanted
(46:54):
to be a tap dancer, and so that was like,
you know, as though people in movies were tap dancing anymore.
It was all like it was all like like bugsby
Berkeley Musical. It's just uh buzz buzby Berkeley. Like we
had three stations and they would play like or they
play like a thin man. I was like, I want
to be I want to be Nora, you know, it's
like that was from a long time ago. Yeah, no,
(47:19):
that's I wanted to girls anymore, as that would be
so fun. I would love it. I wanted to be
a cigarette girl in the Rainbow room so badly. That
was such a joy. It's probably like the big sexual
harassment job of all time, but it sounds it looked
so cute. Oh that little outfits? Are you kidding me?
We should do a photo with Robin von Swank dressed
up a cigarette girls. That'd be great, that'd be great.
(47:43):
All right, who was your favorite comic that? Who was
your first comic that really blew your mind? And you're like, wow,
I want to try that, like who razzled you? It's
gonna make no sense because I'm nothing like him. But
I remember seeing Sam kinn Isn't in George Carlin on TV,
and I remember George carr And had a bit about
closed mouth screaming and it was something he would do
(48:04):
in school and the nuns walked by and they wouldn't
know where the screaming was coming from. And I remember
it didn't make me want to be a comic, but
I remember going, oh, weird, that's like a something a
kid would say but he's a grown up. Like it
just went, huh, that's cool. He gets me, you know.
I just thought that was cool. And then in real life, honestly,
any stand up that I saw live it seemed like magic.
(48:25):
I'd probably be embarrassed to the people that I thought
were funny. It was like anyone on stage. I was like, Wow, Gallagher,
this is great. Yeah, good well, Jenn loves Gallagher. Jen,
You're so it's just such a joy to watch you.
It's such a joy. Didn't see you're like you really
feel like just in the pocket, like you're so in
your own skin, you know, and both as a human
(48:48):
and on stage and in your writing. You guys, this
was a joy. Thanks for having me Hard Marine and
is it my partner Julianne Probinson Stacafe. You guys have fun.
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