The Negotiator

Paget Brewtser, star of Criminal Minds and Another Period join Arden and Anna to chat about finding her voice, standing up for herself with difficult personalities, and raising the bar for herself and her female co-workers.  Needless to say, Paget is a BADASS and is one of their favorite humans. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Oh this is a theme song. It's been a minute
since I've heard that need distress. There's no need distressed.
She's lady God. Shout out once again to Mark Rivers

(00:30):
for the best theme song and podcasting. He also wrote
my other podcast theme song. This guy should win all
of the Grammys. Hello and welcome to another episode of
Lady of the Road. My name is Arta Marine. I'm
coming to you from my garage in Los Angeles, California.
It is our first in person Lady of the Road,

(00:51):
and because of that, I have to say my co host,
my partner in crime, Miss Julianne Robinson, is busy being
a mogul. She is in England right now directing something's secret,
something fancy. But have no fear. I have lots of
lady power with me. Who is a woman who is
also of the Road um our producer, but also today

(01:15):
my co host, my partner in crime, the wind beneath
my wings, a woman that I have had so many
bonkers experiences within, who I love so hard. You guys,
my friend Anna host ni a. Hi. Thank you for
having me on the road. Oh my god, it is
We've had a lot of road adventures. You and I. Yes,

(01:37):
we've traveled the Great United States together. Well we also
before Well, I'm going to bring in our guests so
we can also chat about because we've traveled the Great
United States and our guests. Oh my god, I'm gonna
put on my I'm gonna put on my glorious Steinham
aviator specs so people know that I mean lady business. Okay,
this is our friend and people can't believe that we

(01:58):
know her. Like, would you say that people freak out
super fan about this woman. People cry, people people get
like I would say she and our friend Rob Benedict
have like the most loyal fans of any This is
an actor and she first I would say, exploded onto

(02:18):
the scene for her recurring role on Friends. Would you
say that that's accurate? Um, she was on Community, She
was is and was and will maybe hopefully soon again
be on Criminal Minds, playing multi lingual supervisory special agent
Emily Prentice. She's also on the show the Comedy Central

(02:42):
show Another Period, and she does duck tails and most
importantly on our very important bachelor podcast, Will except this Rose.
She's our secretary of State. We just adore her. Ladies
and gentlemen, we are honored and delighted to be chatty
today with our friend Paget Bruce. Guys, I'm a lady
of the road. You are You've traveled on the road

(03:05):
with us, with you guys, only a couple of people. Really.
We've been to Austin a few times. We've been numerous times,
I would say, in Nashville and Ville. Nashville, Nashville, we went.
Nashville was a real bonding trip. Nashville was our Oh
my god, with Heydener and Wells. That's like I remember.

(03:28):
I feel like that's when we first met. I had
just had a visceral memory. We were at the Lipstick
Lounge in East Nashville, which is a lesbian bar and
they have live they have carrier and um. I remember
we chatted with Wells quite a few times, but we
hadn't met him in person yet, and we were going
to do our very first ever live show at Zaney's.

(03:52):
What's his name canceled on us, James Taylor Luke Luke.
He canceled last minute and then try to try to
get his friends in last minute tickets. But I remember Paget,
so I remember standing in the Lipstick Lounge and Wells
walked in and getting star struck and being like that

(04:12):
we as well as that's well us. But then later
in the night another moment when I was star struck
was turning and looking on the little like it was
a small, amazing stage. It's great, a great place to
do karaoke, and seeing our guest here, Paget Brewster with
a you'd befriended the DJ named I can't remember his
name right now. You're putting me on this, okay, but

(04:34):
you had to blow he'd he had to blow up guitar, yes,
and he would play air guitar, and he was sort
of tough and you'd cracked him and he gave you
a blow up air guitar. He well, he came up.
I was calling him to come up on stage and
play air guitar, and I was probably singing pads I
actually used. I had a photo that you took, probably

(04:55):
of me singing karaoke, legs spread yes, holding onto the
my looking like a maniac. I love this. Brent Dean,
Derek Baron, dammit, I can't remember right now. I hope
it's Brent. I actually um tweeted him and asked him
if I could use that picture as my IMDb portrait. Yes,
and he said sure, And it's on my IMDb page,

(05:18):
which is like the website that lists all of your credits. Now,
I remember for a while you had it because a
lot of a lot of people at home, they'll take
like the most glamorous shot they it was your main photo.
I'm putting up as my this is who I am.
I love this about you and I feel like the
thing that Anna and I wanted to talk to you
about today. Our topic are overwriting topic for the day.

(05:41):
If you're comfortable, you will accept our challenge. We would
like to talk to you today about confidence. We feel
like you you seem I don't know, would you consider
yourself a naturally confident person? Because you seem confident to us?
Is that throwing you for a little. I'm really no,

(06:03):
I'm really flattered because I so envy. See I would
say you, guys, I would think of you as more
confident than I am. So I'm so flattered. Yes, Um,
that's like the prettiest girl in the world saying you're
the prettiest girl in the world. So we're the prettiest
girl in the world. I'm confident in situations that I

(06:25):
understand with people I know, but I am I can
be a little socially awkward. It's situations where you know,
I really don't like big parties. I don't um. But
I think that's everyone, isn't it. I mean, anyone who's
genuinely super confident all the time, I do not trust.
I agree with you. I don't want to hang out
with that. No. I like the fact that we as

(06:46):
a species and individually are flawed and insecure. I mean,
I don't think it's good. I think it causes war
and cancer. But I don't feel as confident as I
want to be. But but I appreciate the struggle of
self awareness to try to be well. Even just hearing
you say that, because I feel like Anna and I

(07:08):
both were like it actually is comforting for me. I
feel like a lot of um, I feel like a
lot of I'll just I guess I'll just only speak
for myself because I don't know how everybody else feels.
But I feel like a lot of my path as
a person is knowing that it's okay to present like
I think we probably both present fairly extroverted, but that

(07:29):
like I do also get nervous and social situations and
learning that maybe that that's okay. But I think that
when I was younger, I think I used to allow
it to maybe talk me out of going and trying
things and like sort of the process of baby steps,
like and then once I get to know somebody, once,

(07:49):
once I'm comfortable with somebody, I'll get more brave. But
like not you know that it's okay to sort of
baby step into situations. Um. I feel like one of
the things that I like about you is you're always
very fully yourself, um like even just and that you
have like just both as a person, and I feel

(08:10):
like even in your career just watching how you know,
have you ever seen her? Have you ever seen Paget
Thrilling Adventure Hour? I have not. It's really like to
do well, you explained to the audience and to Anna
a little bit about Thrilling Adventure Hour. Okay, so Thrilling
Adventure Hour is uh and wait quickly, how do I

(08:31):
turn this up? I feel like I'm sounding money like
I'm not hearing this guy. This one's me. Hello, oh
there I am. Yeah, I'm so sorry. That was weird.
So Thrilling Adventure Hour, which, by the way, we've been
doing on and off for it's probably eighteen years now.
So if I'm not good at it by year three,

(08:53):
I don't deserve the gig. But Um ben Acker and
Ben Blacker wrote, I think we've done two hundred and eighty.
They're serialized radio shows, like the radio comedy dramas from
the thirties and forties. So it's a group of us
called the work Juice Players. We started at UM the

(09:14):
Old Largo on Fairfax, and we moved to the Coronet,
No no, no no no. We moved to m Bar like
a supper club, then the Coronet at Largo, and I
think we might be doing a show. We were going
to do a show this month, but I don't know
what's going on. It's it's all of the actors standing
on stage holding the script sharing Mike's reading, you know,

(09:36):
the creature from the Black Lagoon, like what he does
on his day off. Paul Left Thompkins and I play
married mediums from like the thirties. We live on Park Avenue.
We're drunk constantly. Can we have a voice? A little bit?
Sad Her name is Sadie and she's and they dressed
up like everyone dresses up. Everyone dresses up and so
listic at nies or thirties, like suits, evening downs, tiara

(10:00):
its head dresses. Everyone's Amelia Earharts. Every all of the
women have an Amelia Earhart outfit, which I wore to
the Live Bachelor Show because sometimes went to take turns
playing Amelia Earhart. So it reminds me of the thin man.
Your voice, it's it's very yeah, it's very thin man.
Um um oh, I haven't done it in so long. Um, well,

(10:22):
she's sort of um. It's a it's a minute dentic accent,
which is slightly English. Oh gosh, I'm out of practice.
What's the name. It was Paul's characters. Paul's characters Frank
Doyle and I play Sadie nicka House, Sadie Doll. Oh,
I have not forgotten my middle name. But it's there's

(10:45):
I just sound like, there's no no, you don't you
sound great. There's ghosts. There's always like there's like darling,
like they're always having drinks, cocktails, it's always like cocktail hour. Well,
they're always drunk, but it's so glamorous. They're madly in love. Yeah,
which is nice because it wasn't the you know, will
they won't they or they're fighting, they're they're a married

(11:07):
couple that's been married for whatever, twenty years, thirty years,
and they're they're desperately in love and they cannot be
broken apart. In all of these evil you know, mummies
and skeleton skeleton groups try to you know, make them
a breakup or or sacrifice each other, and they won't.
So um. Yeah, I'm hoping we'll do more of those shows.

(11:30):
We we did. We've done it in New York and
San Francisco. I remember you guys were doing it at
Sketch Fest a lot. Oh yeah, we did. It was
great and a large group of people Oh yeah, um
and uh and uh and all incredibly good. Um at
what they do. I must catch one. It's so good
and well. It's also just I remember I know a
little bit about but about Padget, which our listeners may

(11:52):
not know. One of the things I've always been a
big believer in and speaking of San Francisco, um pageant
and I grew up in the same sort of area
in New England. We actually went to the same high school,
which is bananas. But that you know, I think in
any area of life and for our listeners. I've always
been a big believer in building your own boat, that

(12:14):
like whatever it is of of you can create your
own magic. If you have a dream of something that
you want to do, that there's ways to sort of
you know, and particularly now if you want to be
a performer, I think with your phone you can make
things that there's ways to. You can put up a
live stand up show, maybe at a coffee like, there's
ways to build your own boat. Your big break came
because you were a young person in your like twenties

(12:38):
who had your own talk show in San Francisco. Like
you had you were like the host. How old were you?
Tell us about this talk show? I uh had gone
to Parson School of Design in New York City for
one year, failed out apologize to my teachers, lived with

(12:58):
my drummer. We moved to San Francis Go we went drummer.
I was in a band and and my drummer and
I were boyfriend girlfriend. We lived together and we um.
We broke up the band in New York and we
moved to San Francisco, and then I broke up with
him and UM. I was bartending and going to acting
school in San Francisco and manager hung out at my

(13:18):
bar and I kept bugging him to be my manager.
Finally said yes, but I didn't know that he managed
correspondence anchor people and and talk show hosts and like
infomercial presenters and stuff like that. So he said, okay,
I'll represent you, and he sent me on. I was
doing a public access show where I did like stop

(13:39):
motion animation and wrote sketches and and made Baculi is
um that I then I did get rid of through
the city. What is bachueli is? Um? Is a um?
It's a poison. It's what they've turned into botox. But
and it's just meat rotting in standing water with so
it's it's it's about too area that can kill you.

(14:01):
How old were you when you were doing this? So
what would you use the batulism for nothing? I just
made it for a sketch to be like there should
It's completely responsible. Nobody. I mean it aired it probably
three in the morning on the public access station. I
don't know if anyone ever saw it, but so I
so I ended up getting a talk show because in

(14:24):
do you remember the rickey like show? I came. So
every production company was signing anyone to be a talk
show host. So I shot a pilot in San Francisco
for Westinghouse, just a studio basically company like ABC or whatever.
And then we shot two more pilots and then they

(14:45):
picked it up and we aired at one thirty in
the morning. Uh, and I was the host and it
was called The Paget Show. And I was doing Man
on the Street interviews Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and then we
we would shoot three episodes on Thursday, three episodes on Friday.
But they wouldn't let me report my hours. So I
was still bartending Saturday and Sunday nights to make enough

(15:09):
money to pay my friends. Yeah, so because they said
they would fire people if I reported how many hours
I was working. And it wasn't union somehow, I mean,
I mean, it's so funny, how so many things like
you can't do, like Okay, I guess you don't know
when you're you don't know, you don't know. But also,

(15:29):
like I have to say, I think I'm always drawn
to people who have a really strong work ethic, you
know what I mean, Just hearing that's like, well that's
what you do. You go, you get the bartending thing.
You do the like like like that that the hustler.
I did hustle. I did hustle A long time. I hustled,
and now I'm I'm now struggling with having been locked in, yeah,

(15:52):
like from the pandemic right now recognizing what I value
about that I am. I'm a I don't think I
have the hustle that I used to. And part of
it maybe is saving money because I knew it would
come crashing down, and and I I am I don't
know if I'm not acting because my hair is gray
and I won't diet, or I've gained weight during the pandemic,

(16:15):
or I don't have the hustle, or I don't want
to do just anything that comes along. Like my confidence
is actually right now a little shattered because or not shattered,
it's shaken. And maybe it's not so much that as
it's I need to figure out what I want if
it makes you feel any better. I've been actually talking
about this with people that I like, because I feel

(16:36):
like nobody's talking. I don't know like that. I I
feel the same way, and I've been trying to put
my finger on it, and I think part of it
is also globally a lot of this stuff that filled
in Like it's yes, a lot of the like the
work things have slowed down for like but also the
things even if you're a bit of an indoor cat,

(16:56):
you know, we would still occasionally go to parties, go
out to eat, like all this stuff that kind of
filled in the blank of lives like like that all
went away like that that all the stuff that you know,
and you're my brain like doesn't fully add up, like
it starts to attack myself of like oh you you

(17:17):
you must have gotten depressed. You must have and it's like, no,
the whole world stopped stopped because I can see you
actually struggling with it, because I have never seen you
struggle for a sentence the way I just did. So
I know that you're feeling. I'm feeling yeah, because you're it. No,
you have I lost something? Am I What happened? My

(17:38):
brain has got like like I think, or all resilient.
You pull yourself up by your bootstraps. And I do
see some of my friends it hasn't slowed down for
and in various industries including our own, but like I know,
my life slowed down, and in our industry it did

(17:59):
really shut down. But my brain I see other friends
I know do and I'm like, oh, it's just over,
like I feel like, but that's how I feel about you.
You're constantly working, You're you're you go away and shoot
a whole movie and come back and then we do.
Will you accept this rose and then go shoot a
TV series? And then you come back and we do,
And I'm thinking I can't get cast the same. We

(18:22):
all feel like it's over. I think I think that now, Anna,
you've worked like you've been having a hard time with um.
You've been like have you had I know you've worked
like a like well, okay, here's just throwing this out
for a lot of us too. It would be for
as an actor, we would drive to Warner Brothers and auditions, right,

(18:44):
so you at least felt like you were doing something.
This is all in your living room and you're doing nothing.
You feel like a loser. Anna, you work more than anybody.
I know you have your workers probably, But do you
feel because it's been from your house, is there a
part of your brain like like your work has I
would say you're career even though it's stressing you out
in a different kind of a way, like your career

(19:05):
is you're more in demand than ever, but you have
a different kind of a struggle because of having been
locked up. Yeah, I feel like my work has tripled
because of the pandemic because podcasting kind of never stopped
and probably got more and the people are at home,
we're like, you know, you have every person literally wanting
to do a podcast about a show they were once
on or just talking to their friends. So everyone wants

(19:27):
to do a show, and you know, and the money
is coming into like the industry, but you know, they
don't hire as fast as they really should, so then
you know, like we get the strain. The people who
already working get the strain of all the work that
you know gets added every day. Um. But I don't
even like even being at home, Like it's almost like

(19:50):
it's it's killed my energy in a way of like
I don't even like being at home, Like I I
it's all everything like stresses me. Like I'll like look
at my kitch and be like, oh, I gotta do
dishes too. Like But first is, when I was at work,
I wasn't thinking about like chores because I wasn't wasn't
in front of my face, you know, so I kind
of hate that we're going to take a quick break,

(20:10):
and I think this is a great conversation to come
back and talk about balance and burnout. And also just like,
because I think this is all stuff that people aren't,
you start to feel like it's personal. But it's like,
oh no, maybe this everyone is feeling this way. And
we're back and we were okay. So we were just

(20:31):
talking about um, sort of the two flip sides of
you know, and again some people. We know a lot
of people go into work and have gotten through the work,
through work through the whole time. UM, but I would
say everyone's lives have been affected by what's happened in
the last couple of years. So Anna, you were saying,
so you're busier than ever, but you have I know,

(20:52):
you've been struggling with burnout. Do you think some of
that has been because there's been not a change of
environment in your How was like from where you work
like that you're there all the time? Yeah, definitely, I
think being at home all the time it doesn't help
the change of scenery or like the lack of change
of scenery doesn't help versus I was working, you know,
decently a lot before, but then you know, we would

(21:13):
go places and like, you know, you got to like travel.
We could have done sketch Fast, we could have done
moon Tower. All that been all over the place, um,
which helps break it up a lot. You know, that's
sort of like escape from your own home or from
the office. Helps. But at first it was like, oh,
this is new and interesting, and then you know, you're
like two and a half years into it, you're okay,

(21:34):
it's gotta feel like for you. And I'm sorry I
complained that I'm not acting on camera a lot because
you're working too much for me, Like I wouldn't be
able to handle it. But do you must feel like
every day bleeds into the next day. Yeah, if there's
no physical change of where you are, I couldn't remember
what today, what day of the week it was today.
I have to say, I was so excited to do
this in person, like these in person. You know, I

(21:57):
have a setup where we have doors that we can
open and so the French doors are wide open and
that we can just keep it safe and um, you know,
but everything else has always been over zoom and just
like this to me, I think feeds my soul, fills
me up, like being able to see my friends, like
doing something that's different than than the normal like routine

(22:20):
of the zoom stuff. I think, I think that's gotten
really hard. Can I say something in regards to the hustle?
So while I do really struggle and I am like,
you know, really burning out, I always have that fear
in the back of my mind. It's like, well if
I give up now? Did I give it all up
in like the peak of my career? That's like my constant.
That's a I hate that you are probably tortured by that,

(22:41):
but but that's a fair thing to think. I'm sorry,
but there's guys you give it up? Was it worth
the sacrifice that you made so far? I guess the
question is can you say no to some of it?
I mean, that's that's what my first thought hearing that was,
like there has to be something in between, like is
there a way to look at And that's again a way.

(23:02):
I think it's helpful to have like outside friends and eyes,
like so it's not just your own brain trying to
figure out the Rubik's cube yourself, but like, can you
can is there a way? Like you have built this
whole thing, so it feels like a shame to throw
the baby out with the bathwater, Like is there a
way to keep the baby and keep the baby bathwater?

(23:23):
That's the question? Yeah, yeah, And I don't know. I'm
always I feel like I'm constantly trying to figure that out.
It is hard to say no, Like I I would say,
did you grow up? Sort of as it? Like you
seem like you're good at standing up for yourself, Like
I feel like one of the things, one of my
least favorite qualities is I feel are you a people pleaser?

(23:44):
And I'm a bit of a people pleaser? Like when
I as an adult, I learned the phrase no as
a complete sentence, which was mind boggling to me. Do
you have a hard time saying no or no? Not now?
Not now? What tell us? How like give us some help,
give us some advice? So like it took a long time.
First of all, I was I do think I'm inherently

(24:06):
a team player and a people person. Can I think
that everyone's job on set is equal in value? I
don't believe in this above the line, below the line
or p A s are your servants? Like I've heard
people say that, but I have also been taken advantage
of I've been robbed, I've been fired, I've been molested,

(24:27):
I've been like every abuse that can happen to a
female in this business has happened. And at a certain
point you just realize it's my job to protect me.
And that means saying something if I'm uncomfortable, it means
and that's terrifying, because you can get you can get
let go for it, you can get in trouble for it.
Um pointing out injustice or discrimination, or racism, or or homophobia,

(24:55):
or you know, poor behavior from the people who got
away with it for so long. If you pointed that out,
you were at risk of being fired and blackballed and
never working again. And it's not like, I mean not
like I can go back to bartending. I was a
great bartender, but I'm fifty three next week. I'm not
bartending now. I would do it for charity, though if anyone,

(25:18):
I would do Hamburger Mary's like Queen It. I did
not have confidence or the ability to say no, I
want to say until I was jeez, I mean too long,
I would say thirty six, thirty seven years old. That's

(25:39):
when I realized I can say no. No, No, I
would that actually myself. But work wise, that's even impressive,
because I gotta tell you, even like said that was
what fifteen years ago the industry had not was not.
I would go to bosses about things and nobody did
anything like. I'm impressed even fifteen years ago you started

(26:02):
to know how to advocate for yourself. I'm I'm surprised too,
because what was it like or like? Did you just
was there a specific job that you felt like you
just said? Had it? Um? Gosh, I'm trying to remember
the first time. I just Um. First, my my mom

(26:25):
and dad raised my brother and I very very clearly too.
No matter what the job is, waitressing, working in a
frame store, being attempt if you don't like that job,
quit immediately give your notice because someone else wants that job,
and you're making the world a worse place if you're

(26:45):
unhappy doing what you're doing. So that kind of seeped
into I think acting where I realized, if I if
I hate what's going on, if I hate myself and
I hate these people and I hate the situation, I
have to quit. So I either have to change the
situation or not do it. You know, I had to
figure out a way to address the situation. And I

(27:07):
did discover that it seems to me in my experience only,
I can't speak for anyone else that when people behave
badly actors, directors, you know what I mean, some people
will You'll be punished. You'll be punished for talking to
a producer about a shitty director or a shitty actor.

(27:30):
You know, it can have it can have a negative
effect on you. But a lot of the badly behaved
people respect someone saying you're not doing that. Oh yeah,
you don't do it in front of everyone. You just
take someone aside and say this isn't happening, it's not
happening again, or I'm going to leave if you if

(27:52):
you shame a volatile, angry, a happy person in front
of anyone, no result. If you take them aside and
say this isn't gonna work, you can't do this, and
they start to punish you, then you do it in
front of everybody. It's it's it's thumping a dog on
the nose, Okay, I mean you know when if they

(28:13):
if they do, people still do that or is that wrong? No? Not, no, not,
it's not it's not thumping them on the nose. It's
when you you hold their poop up to them, if
they poop in your couch or something. I don't have
what's my analogy? No, I got what you mean. You're
like showing them the damage they've done it in a
way to do you want this because it's in your
face something. There's something about well, the poorly behaved people,

(28:35):
it's almost like there they think they're a piece of ship.
That's why they behave that way. So if you call
them on it, they respond with either fear or respect
or something because they it's almost like they're waiting to
be I was raised by a bully. My dad was
a bully, and I would say that's one of the

(28:57):
I still really, I still really can revert to like
a teary eleven year old like it's very I just
completely folded on myself, like I can't. I'm so shocked
that someone's believe me. I don't have the words, so
let me ask. So okay, just like actual, real practical,

(29:17):
So you actually do you do? You reason it out
with somebody else before you go talk to them, Like
say somebody's done something and they've been a real jerk,
you pull them aside. Do you usually chat with somebody
else like I'm gonna go talk to Brian about you know,
or do you sort of it depends. It depends on
this situation. Do you get scared? Uh? Yes, I get

(29:39):
I get panicked and inside I get panied. I'm trying
to say, Okay, the last time, uh, the last time
I remember because it was so like passionate and scary.
This is years ago. I just I've done it since.
I just don't don't remember what it was. Adam Rodriguez,
who's phenomenal actor and producer. He joined Criminal Minds in

(30:05):
and like the last couple of seasons, and I had
just come back and he was five minutes late one
day and I didn't know him very well, you know,
and I had worked with someone before who would be
late between twenty minutes and two hours, and it it

(30:27):
just messed everybody up. And it was it was and
that and that was someone where I did say to
that person, I'm not talking to you for the rest
of the day unless we have lines together because you
sucked me selfish and your garbage. And they would say
I'm sorry, and I was like, doesn't matter, You've said
that before. It doesn't matter. I don't care so and
this is someone I care about who has a problem.

(30:48):
So when Adam Rodriguez was that late, he came into
the I was in the makeup chair and we were
in the same scene together, first scene up, and he
went up to get his makeup done. I was in
the hair chair and I said, and I was livid,
like when you you hear a high pitched wine and
you actually see red because the blood is coursing through

(31:11):
your and because I had just signed back on and
I was like, I'm not doing this again. And I said, so, Adam,
are you the new SO and so? Yes? And he
was like, what do you mean? And he's a very
he's like a he's like he's wonderful and I love
him and he's a very good friend. But in that moment,
I was like, I'm I'm gonna kill this piece of
ship because I can. And I was turning head and everyone,

(31:35):
all the hair and makeup people and the other actors
in the trailer froze like deer in the woods when
you hear a gunshot. And it was just like me
shimmering with rage at one end of the trailer, and
he was up in a crow's nest makeup thing, and
I said, I I find it. I can't even remember
what I said. I was so in rage. I just
was saying, do you think it's cool? Do you think

(31:57):
it's it's cool that everyone's waiting for you? Because I'm
not going through this again. And I was something I
can't even remember what I said, and he he said,
don't worry about it. I know what I'm doing, and um,
I've never been late. When the camera was rolling and
I was still angry, and I said, Okay, well that's
something you're gonna have to prove to me. And he
was like, okay, doll, and not in a shitty misogynist way.

(32:20):
She's a flirty suite like I now get him. And
it now, with the hindsight of him being an incredibly
close friend, I can see who he was. And he
was exactly who he was and it wasn't bad. And
he was right. He never not what he knew how
production worked to the second. He had done ten years
on c S I Miami with a guy who was

(32:44):
sort of known as having been a renowned the difficult
person to work with, so he knew, but the fact
that I was able I just rejoined a show that
he was signed to and for me to go off
on him when he's been shooting episodes and I'm just
coming back after being for four years, like I was wrong,

(33:06):
but I was right. But good for you. But and
also I can bring it up because because Adam it
thinks it's hilarious now. Yes, And it was a couple
of days and I went to him and I said,
you know what I actually that day, I said, I'm
sorry I came at you so hard. I just what
that was was my fear. Yes, my it's rage towards

(33:27):
someone else. So I'm sorry I took it out on you.
You were not late. You you have never been late
when they're ready to roll. No one's waiting on you
for us ever, You're always there before. He's a consummate professional.
So but I have to say and like, so good
for you though, that you didn't just swallow it down

(33:48):
and use it against yourself something well even just said
that you know to your having your learning to have
your own back in life, like just as a human,
if you have your own back, that you were also
coming back. So for the people who don't know you
were on criminal minds for the first six years, and
they let you and A J. Cook both go citing

(34:13):
financial reasons. Do you think you were women? No, they said,
they said in the conference call, we want new women,
I mean, and I can't. Yeah, and so uh yeah,
that was That's something I had to work through because
I was really mad about that for a long as
you because we were like, we were such team players.
We were always doing the right thing. We weren't late,

(34:34):
we weren't violent, we weren't angry, we weren't rude, we
weren't we didn't get into fights with directors day one
to prove like who the big dog is? Like. We
were so well behaved, so like, we knew our lines,
we hit our marks. We never sort of late like
and and we were sacrificed because Lessman was at that

(34:54):
time wanted I think we we figured he'd seen the
show for the first time and six seven years because
we did a backdoor pilot for for a spinoff that
failed immediately. But we were let go and then I
stayed for another year. A J. Was gone for a year,
and then I was gone for four years, and the
fans revolted. They did, which was very um sweet and supportive.

(35:19):
And there were petitions signed and CBS was like, oh,
I mean just even I've had things like that said
to my face. Where they do they do tweat the
women as it also shows you like slightly a little
bit like I think it's getting better, but like this
is what you're worth is and you guys are just
like we need to bring in the new whatever. Like

(35:40):
the fact that it's like we need new women. You
know that it was that, you know, that's that makes
that must have felt so belittling and like, but I've
worked so hard. That's why. That's why we were both
sort of so enraged. Because it was also the women

(36:00):
all made half or less, yes, comparative salary to the men.
Then the women we were replaced with were paid way
more than we were because we still had friends and
production and no one involved in the show itself on
a day to day basis wanted it to happen. Our showrunner,

(36:21):
uh quit saying you're not if you won't let me
run my own show and you're making me fire my cast,
it's not my show. I quit. Um. So a lot
of people were upset by it. But but but the
great thing was, and this is something I am very
proud of when I came back. Yes, I was gone
for four years and I did other shows. I did

(36:43):
another Period and Grandfather and tell me if I'm talking
to no, no, you're this, you're the guess, you're the
gas Okay, okay, if you're talking, bake it in and
as very quiet yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's a lot

(37:03):
to say that. Um. When I when I came back
to guest star on Criminal Minds, having gotten over my rage,
I could see. I mean, that must have been hard
to come back as a guest star because I really
cared about everyone there, even when they pissed me off,
even if they were late, right, you know, I still
cared about everyone there. So I had agreed to guest star.

(37:26):
And while I was there, um, uh, Thomas Gibson was
let go for an incident I did not see. I
don't know anything, and the show that they showrunner and
everybody asked me, why don't you come back? And joined
the show again as a series regular, and uh and

(37:47):
and and at that time I spent four years being
hugged by fans in the airport saying why did you leave?
You know, and it wears on you. So I did say.
They were saying, if if Thomas is gone, Thomas is gone.
If you don't come back as your character to to
run this unit, they're going to hire another actor we

(38:08):
don't know anything about, and it could be a dick.
So why not you? You know, it's so I said, okay,
And then I negotiated harder than I not. My agent
negotiated so hard to get a raise because I said,

(38:28):
I'm not coming back at what you were paying me.
So it was agony and up saying. They were saying
it's this amount and this many years, and I was like, no,
it's more, it's more. Wait a minute, So how okay?
Because we we've talked about we had a great episode
in Nicole Buyer about about advocating for you. It's hard
as women, it's hard. It's just because it's hard when

(38:49):
they're like when they make you feel disposable, it's like,
well then we'll get somebody else for you know, Like,
so how did you how did if your agent wasn't
doing it, how did you do it? Well? I my
agent was saying we should take this number, and I said, well,
I don't know the answer is no, I don't need
this job, need me more than I need them, and
if they don't need me, I don't want to be here.

(39:10):
And there was a little bit of I'm going to
get revenge, not revenge, not like not like witchy poo
in a broom, but but like this, it's time to
make this right. Yeah, I fought for I still did
not make the salary that Thomas Gibson was making. But
Thomas had been there the whole time. I hadn't, so
I accepted and fought so hard for a number that

(39:36):
I really liked. It wasn't as much as he was making.
But I also recognized, well, that's not gonna happen because
I haven't been here since the very first episode I
joined season two, and I, you know, so I got it.
I tried. I tried really hard to get what he
was being made. But when I got that number and
agreed and signed the end of that year, the other

(40:01):
women's Oh, and I also said Aisha Tyler was in
the cast. She had joined the cast while I was gone,
and I knew that CBS might pull up, Oh, well,
now we have a brunette, we can fire her. So
I had it written into my deal she can't be fired.
I can't be replacing any female. The cast has to
stay the way it is, and I joined and they were,

(40:23):
so they had to agree to that. So then just
in case, just I'm not saying they would fire Aisha,
I'm saying they'll do the we have a blonde, let's
get a new blonde. We have a brunette, Let's get
a new brunette. So that happened, and then at the
end of that year, the Ladies contracts were up. So
we all met at Kirsten banksness his house for a

(40:43):
hot tub party where we drink wine, and I told them,
you guys are going into negotiations. This is what I
make per episode. Now. We need to go get more
because you for Kurston and a j they had been
there from the beginning of the show. I hadn't. I'd
been gone four years. AJ had that one year off

(41:05):
and then came back. Aisha had been a guest star
for a while because she was on The Talk, so
she hadn't signed as a series regular. So I said,
you guys have to go in and get when I'm
making her more. Okay, we're gonna take a quick break
and we're gonna come back, and we're talking about pay
equity and we're back. I love this conversation. I love

(41:31):
talking about money. I feel like people don't talk about
it enough, particularly as women. Well, we're raised not to
we're raised, we're told that it's vulgar. Yes, don't talk
about Yes, but that's from the that's from Victorian England
where women were making a living. That's what it's from.
Don't discuss money. And how generous of you to speak

(41:53):
to what a gift you gave to your fellow castmates,
to say this, how much money I make, you should
make more? Yes, because but it's fair though. That's the
thing is. I did have a chip on my shoulder
for how we were all treated and how the women
were making so much less, and um, it just didn't

(42:16):
make sense. At that point. The show had been on
for so long, and it was a head and it
was doing really well, and and it was huge. It's
huge internationally, playing places in fifty eight countries or some
crazy thing. So I can tell you my quote. So
I have been a series regular on six shows. I
have done probably twelve or thirteen pilots. I've probably tested

(42:38):
for thirty. As you raise your quote by testing and
doing pilot. My quote is less than my male friend
who has never booked one pilot. What it He's never
booked a pilot, and I have a lower quote than him,
and and and that is enraging. He's a man, he

(43:04):
had a man with no credit infuriating and why. I
mean at a certain point it's like I think it's
also your value of like, well we can get what
his value is? He no, no, no for me, for me,
no nothing. He was just like kind of a funny
improv guy, but not a stand up of a successful
stand up. He's not even an actor anymore. Like it

(43:26):
didn't work good, but like but like that, but it's
just the town. It's just the town. They're like, well,
we'll go get whoever, we'll go get so and so,
I mean, Anna, you just renegotiated your race. Did you
talk to people about what they were making? How did
you How did you come up with your number? Um?
I came up with my number based off what I'm

(43:47):
already making with like overtime plus like a ton more
because I was like I refused to take anything less.
So question, did you do you know what your peers make?
Not really, because everyone's so like tight lit it's hard.
I mean, that's the thing. It's information that has to
be offered. I think, because you know, it's actually a

(44:08):
problem because you know, women and people of color have
no way of knowing what to ask for if they're
being devalued. Oh yeah, well I do think there's a
real I mean, in any negotiation, the only real cards
you have are when you're willing to walk away. That's it.
That's what I have to be willing to lose the
deal and live with it. I was willing to not

(44:30):
come back to criminal minds. I wanted it, I really
wanted it. But I they knew when I said I'm
not I don't need it, they knew I meant it.
And I had been I had been a series regular
on three series during the years I was gone, so
they knew I had other options workwise. So but when
I told the other ladies what I made, they did

(44:52):
go back. Did they get it? They got? They did?
They all They got way more than I did, which
I was happy about. My contract was for like two
or three years or something. And the following year I
called my Asian manager and said, UM, call CBS and
tell them I want to make what the other ladies
are making otherwise it's not fair. Yeah, and they said no,

(45:13):
that they're never going to say yes to that and
it doesn't matter. Just ask ask for anything, and they
did and CBA said, okay, we'll pay you what we're paying.
That we like supported each other, you know, through to
this parody, to this, to the to the pay parody
that we did finally have Well, I guess to any
listeners at home in your industry, like if you have

(45:36):
somebody that has to be safe, if there's like a
safe person, Yeah, it's tricky though. It is hard, especially
for women. I'll tell you doing the just doing promos
for this. I one of the like DJs that we
talked to was like, so, you guys are trying to
be nice to one another. You women were always so
I was like, I don't, like, let me tell you
what stir. There was always like one spot, there's one

(45:59):
female writer, there's one you're the woman. When I would
do improv like already we already have a woman Like so,
so if there's one spot, sure people are going to
have been ruder to each other back in the day
because there's like because because there it's because it's there's
there's a condition and it's starting to change. I don't like, yeah,

(46:23):
I think it's starting to change. But um an, I
had questions just about your upbringing and if that, like
like just she was just curious about your childhood and
if that sort of because I have to say, like
it feels like your gut, your inner compass knows how
to sort of stand up for yourself and stuff like
That's what Anna had. Something I'm just I'm curious, like

(46:43):
how you were raised to like see yourself Like it
sounds like your parents kind of built you up like
they were they were a positive force. Yeah, I do.
I mean that's definitely something I can't control or take
credit for. I I was born to two outstanding people

(47:06):
who are still flawed human beings, but they My dad
was working in my my mother's dad's bank. He was
a banker my grandfather, and my dad started working for
him and Bank of Boston and he was going to
be a barnker. And mom was, you know, I think
pregnant with me when my dad just said I can't

(47:29):
do it. I can't do it, and she's, so, what
do you want to do? And he said, I want
to teach English. She was like Milky Duck and they
my dad got a job teaching English at a at
a boarding school in Massachusetts, and so we lived in
a dormitory. But and then my mom started teaching ceramics,
and uh, but they always valued you know, every it's

(47:53):
every day of your life, not how much money you
make or where you get or what you drive or
you know, what is every day of your life? What
do you value? Do that? And if you don't like
what you're doing, stop doing it and and face the consequences,
you know. Um, And I think having that instilled. Now, Listen,

(48:15):
I don't have kids. If I had kids, or my
parents were ill and I needed to to take care
of them, I would be in a very different boat
than I am right now. Um. So it's easier for
me to say, well, I live frugally, I saved money.
I don't have to do jobs I don't want to do.
I can say, hey, screw you, I don't need this

(48:37):
job now. Um. But that all I guess. The whole
general thing was just being being raised to respect ourselves
and choose to do what makes us happy. We were
never although my parents didn't want me to be an actor.

(48:59):
They my dad, oh god, he wanted me to go
to secretary school. Like oh, he would go for drives
when the way you would have nailed it, you would
have been so cool. Oh. I never learned that's a
real secretary school. There used to be secretary school though.
Blessed me. Came to New York City and he took me.
I said, I want to go to bartending school, and

(49:20):
and he took me to the bartending school. And this
guy was such a con artist. You don't pick a
glass up like this, you pick it up like this.
And my dad enrolled me in bartending school and paid
it was it was, but he did that. He did support.
You know. I had dropped out of art college and

(49:45):
they said, we're cutting you off and we're not gonna
pay your rent. Okay, you know, so I was waitressing
and they had been paying my rent while I was
going to to to Parsons and uh, I started working
and supporting myself. And but then he did yea a
year later, I was I wanted to step up from waitressing.
I wanted to bartend And he did come to New

(50:06):
York and pay for me to go to bartending school,
which for an old Massachusetts family is it's like making
up business cards for your daughter the hooker. It was
so outside understanding for them, so there was always like
a very nurturing, artistic, supportive even if they were scared

(50:29):
that like actress, no one's an actress, you can't be
an actress. Who's an actress? No one's an actress. Like
it was a lot, and I just kept it seems
like you're good at listening to your own inner compass, though,
And I would say somebody that you know who's had
your level of success, you're not. You could if you
wanted to be like a real douche, you know, and

(50:50):
like you're like, I would say, you're very you are
very grounded. I have been though, I've been angry, I've
been a dick. I've been, but you're not when I
when I've I've been insecure and been but you uncomfortable
on set and probably but you've not been the like
talk to my assistant, like you get you get you
get your jeans like at CVS, like you know, you

(51:13):
get your CVS gens and like you get your like
aldo purse, and like I love this person, but I'm
saying that's what but that's what we all get. I
also get my aldo purse, like like if you wanted
to be all like bougie, like you're always glamorous, but like,
but you are always glamorous, but you feel like a
real You're a real person, and you know, I admire

(51:35):
just just you know, talking about what your family said,
Like what do you do every day that you know?
I love you're you know on your Instagram. I love
you like cooking your mushrooms and watching your top chef
and like fading squirrels. Yeah, I feel like you have
like you. I feel like you There's no value in
that for Instagram though, but don't it wants to see

(51:57):
a real person doing Instagram. They want to see like
someone holding up a part of a toilet cover that
makes it look like they're in a private jet. They
want to see like cocktails. But I love that you
still have like five out of followers or whatever. But
I don't know why. I don't know why. I'm terrible.
I'm terrible at it, But I feel like I love

(52:17):
that you have hobbies. It's like I feel like you've
chosen happiness that you haven't chosen, like that You're like
this is what I like to do, you know, that's true.
I have and again, but that is born from that's
born from decades of hustling and decades of taking any
job and being treated badly and having to learn how
to have confidence and my own voice, you know what

(52:41):
I mean? So there is Did you always have balance?
Like along the way? Did you always sort of have
hobbies and stuff? Because I feel like they're no. I
mean when I think about now, thinking about and look,
I love Criminal Minds. We have been negotiating with Paramount
Plus to to reboot the show as a as like
a ten episode series on Paramount plus um. But it's

(53:05):
it's a really tricky thing to coordinate apparently, so we're
all hoping it happens. Ye, But shooting that kind of
show for twenty two episodes a year, that is fifteen
to eighteen hours a day, every day, five days a week,
sometimes six days a week, ten months straight, I don't

(53:27):
have that hustle in me anymore. I I wouldn't even
audition for a show if I was a main cast
member and it was going to be like that, I
did it. It was great. I would love to do
a limited run series of Criminal Minds, but I couldn't
do twenty two. Again, I can't. I couldn't. I don't
want to. It's so hard. There's no balance. You work,

(53:51):
you go home, you go back to work, you go home.
You Sunday, you get you get home from the end
of when you go to work Friday. You get home Saturday,
five six am. That's when you finished shooting from all day,
all night Friday. Saturday. You get home, You sleep until

(54:12):
four or five, and then maybe do laundry, maybe make
some food and put it in a tupper wear in
case you are ever home again, and clean your toilet
bowl and go to bed because you're gonna be back.
You're gonna be do on set at four thirty am
Monday morning. And I don't think anyone understands that it's
that kind of life. I don't know if people really

(54:34):
talk about you don't see your friends, you don't see
your family, you don't make plans, you don't go on
you go on vacation. If you have a month and
a half two months off, do you think that there's
no balance there? So no for the years I have
not had balance, do you think that there's the pandemic
the first time you've had some balance in a while
it's the longest I've gone not not hustling, not working,

(54:57):
not and it and it's been jarring. I know. I
think I've always been so ambitious and I still hustle
and get a lot of stuff done, but it's there
is a side of me now that it's been going
on for a minute. And I do think I also
started to kind of like my I've never had hobbies
that I didn't monetize, so like, so I was like

(55:17):
and like, you know, like and I had so much
loss in the last few years, you know, like losing
both parents and then like my marriage fell apart during
the pandemic, and like you know, but then like and
what's shocking is you can go through all of your
worst nightmares and actually still be okay, Like all my
worst nightmares happened and I'm still actually like each one
takes about a year to mourn, but then like you're

(55:39):
still yourself even within that, you still have nice days.
And like, so it's been it's been this weird thing
of like, Okay, all these things are eliminated, like who
am I? And there's been sort of this weird gift
of like, oh my god, I just want to be
with my friends. I want to go like make things.
I like, you know, Anna and I took up tennis
during the pay endemic, like having in a weird way,

(56:02):
I'm like strangely almost more fulfilled little in a weird way,
and I almost feel frightened without my old friend ambition.
That's like, wait, but it has to just be about work,
Like who are you hanging out having people for tacos
and you playing time? Like I've earned enough because of

(56:23):
the podcast, I've arned enough of my book that like
I've been able to like support myself thankful I'm not,
I'm thankful for that. So it's like it's like it's
always been work work, work, work, work, work work, and
it's weird. I almost feel like there's something wrong with
me that that there's been any kind of a change

(56:43):
in the balance. It's like, no, well, if you don't,
if you don't live like pedal to the metal your careers,
and it's gonna just it's gonna do it, go to
ship completely. That's an exterior, that's an external voice. That's
the same voice that's saying, don't ask for more money,
take what you can get. You know you and if
you want to and for it, you need it more
than anything in the world, not something else might come along. Right,

(57:03):
it's oh my god, I got an audition. I gotta
get this. But do you feel now like you're you're
you're finding if you if you are swung from extremes, Yes, hustle, hustle, hustle, lost, pandemic, nothing,
no work. Now you're now we're coming out of it.
Do you feel like you will find a balance? I do,
because I actually feel like the gift of all like

(57:25):
a lot of the stuff that I sought and I
don't know if Anna did it for the same reason,
but like I will say, the gift of all my
loss and the gift of what I've called grief island
in my life. I I want to be happy. I
do want to be I've worked too hard on me,
I have all I had all these great things going
on when I didn't instigate any of this stuff. So
it's almost like three tornadoes came through my yard, and um,

(57:49):
I feel like like my life was actually pretty great
and pretty cool that it was like, well, I don't
want to just go to bed forever, just like like
bad things happen, but like so I feel that this
stuff I've added in because I was so fundamentally grieving
one of the gifts of grief, and I think we

(58:11):
all kind of collectively got it during the pandemic. I
think your body knows when you sort of have no skin,
who you want to hang out with and who you
don't want to hang out with, what activity you want
to do. But like, I think everyone had things eliminated
and then things enhanced during the pandemic. And I would say,
when you have like extra grief, I think it's just
slightly more enlarged. But it made me lean into the

(58:34):
stuff that was working and made me want to like
live life in a with people and kind of like
go do activities so I had something to talk about
other than these outside things. I don't want to define
me because I didn't really do like I didn't do
these things, so it's but it's I was, like I
think because of pain, I've added in all these things

(58:57):
that at first were just a bandy to have something
to talk about besides lots, but they've actually turned into
very fun gardens of like I have all these fun
friends playing tennis. I always felt and I say this
as a person who was never on a sports team.
I was picked last, and so it's like pushing through
fear of like the narrative of like I can't do that,

(59:17):
I'm a liability, I'm sorry, I'm bad, and it's like
there's nothing wrong with me. I can learn how to
do this and be strong. And have you found that, Um, yeah,
I mean I've always been a very I've always liked
playing sports, and I think I like lose that sometimes
when I get too busy, and so actually playing tennis
has helped me feel like I'm finding a little part

(59:38):
of myself again as a kid, Like I've always been
kind of sporty. I played rugby growing up, by played soccer,
I played really physical sports. I played basketball, and then
I just stopped because all of a sudden it was
all about like working well. And it's also as fun
as we take these clinics and it's with all these
people that we would never normally me it feels like
kind of like fun jury duty at the rec center.

(59:59):
You really do meet a bunch of characters and it's
funny to like interact with them and then like they
become your friends. They become your friends. It's fun to
have hobbies. I understand why older people played bridge, or like,
it gives you a community of people you get to
know and that has nothing to do with entertainment, has
nothing like And I think I think when you start

(01:00:21):
to monetize what was probably our hobbies when we were kids,
and then you're like, well that was my hobby now
it's my job, Like what's my hobby? So it's been
a nice The gift of all of this has been
kind of I feel like I have a much larger
life than I would have had if none of this
stuff had happened. Let me ask you this, though, do

(01:00:43):
you do both of you feel Are you happy doing
this or is there always a voice where you're afraid
that the time you're spending playing tennis, you're not being
ambitious and you're not being driven. It just adds speaking
a champion, because that means that means you, that means
you are you have the balance. Yeah, no, it did.

(01:01:05):
I actually feel like I'm ready now. It just adds
to me being a champion. And uh, and I say,
I haven't explained it on this podcast, but I was
always speaking against myself on the court because I because
I was always told I was I was picked last
I was told I was bad, and so I just
took that narrative on that there was something wrong with me.

(01:01:25):
And so you know, I started playing again less Labor Day,
and so when I would be on the court apologizing
and it's like, I'm actually fine, I'm good. And like
my friend's Staph, who was really good, she was like
Arden New Year's Eve, she did an intervention and she
was like, Arden, don't speak against yourself. It gives other
people arrows to shoot you with. So people don't trust you.

(01:01:46):
Every time you say I'm bad, people will believe you
and then they and and so I think this is
true in any area. So she's like, just even if
everybody hits things out, you are a champion, So just
act like you're a champion. I think it helps me
with my stand up. I think it's helped me with
like going on dates of like everybody feels it's about

(01:02:06):
taking healthy risks and not and not being your own
little saboteur that says to something's wrong with me. You
told me this, yes, last or two weeks ago, And
I think about it every day now absolutely because I
do still I I do still say I'm not good
at this I'm bad at this, but I guess I

(01:02:27):
come from a place where I don't there's I don't
think there's anything wrong with failure. I have discovered that
failure is absolutely necessary to becoming good at anything. So
I have no problem with failure. So it's not like
I say, oh, I'm terrible, I'm a jerk. What is it?
What is your what is your brain being mean to
you about? Well, I say, oh, I'm terrible at Twitter

(01:02:50):
and Instagram, But but that doesn't bother me. I don't
think I'm denigrating myself but helping you with oh, thinking
about it just it's embracing messiness. It's embracing self. It's saying, no,
I need to remember that if I treat myself well,

(01:03:13):
other people will. I can't even even this kind of
confusing time of coming out of this pandemic when I
have my my my confidence and sense of self have
been have been shuffled and juggled, and I'm you know,
I'm reading Marie Condo and I'm I'm I'm I'm organizing
all my drawers and I'm getting rid of things that
need I'm looking at my wardrobe and saying I deserve quality,

(01:03:34):
not all of my pants need to come from write aid.
That's okay. I know what size I wear in theory,
I can get it for less on eBay. So I'm
I'm aware that I'm trying to just be a champ.
I love myself and support myself and and be a champion.
I just want. I want to be a champion. I
do too. I'll tell you one thing that my brain
has been mean about recently, and I feel like, what's

(01:03:55):
something And we're will wrap up here in a second,
but like just hearing what you were saying hang earlier,
just mentioning, and my brain has said this to me
since I was twenty five years old, So let me
just say that that it's like, oh, you're too old,
it's over. You had a shot, it didn't happen. If
you had a good run, you had a fine, and
it's like, fuck, that's totally my dad. I just want

(01:04:17):
to start with that. It's been since I was twenty five.
It is inaccurate, but it can be very loud. Do
you get does your voice ever see like as like
a woman in Hollywood? Does your voice talk to you
about age? You just you heard me when we started
doing this, and I said every I'm doing all these
auditions at home. I'm not getting cast because I'm too old.
I've gained weight during the pandemic. I won't dye my

(01:04:39):
hair brown again. Okay, everyone I know negative, I want
you to know that no one I know is getting
cast from self tapes. The only people I know getting
jobs of the people that just get straight off ers.
Just so you know, no one I know is booking
self tapes. It's just not happening. That's what I've started hearing.
And I trying to hold onto that and be a
champion and realize that. Also. I look, if I could
Miraculo Leslie lose six pounds, I wouldn't sneeze at it.

(01:05:03):
But I walk around the neighborhood. I keep putting architectural
digests in the lending library, yes, in my neighborhood, and
someone keeps taking them. And I know I'm making someone happy,
a champion. They're like to two thousand eight taught architectural
digests and someone every day they're gone, Yes, And I'm
so excited that someone's enjoying so but I don't. And

(01:05:24):
I love my gray hair now now it's a length
I really like I got it cut by a professional.
I didn't trim it with cutical scissors. So but I
definitely there's that voice of like, oh my god, I'm
not thin enough, I'm not young enough. I'm never gonna
work again. I'm gonna that happens. It's gonna happen. It's
gonna have to competitive business. I've had it since I
was twenty five, and I just want to say I've
really had to be the champion and me has to go.

(01:05:46):
Thank you for sharing because because all that does, and
I think we all have it can be weight, it
could be money, it could be age. So it's like, oh,
they're not allowed to be fabulous today. We're not allowed
to have a great day, grow where your planet. You know,
like all right, you got you got the bills that
you have, you got the money that you have, you
got the body in the hair that you have, you
got the agent. It's never You're still are lovable today.

(01:06:09):
You're still allowed to go have a goal, you still
have to do something fun for yourself. It's like there's
no there there like this, like you're allowed to still
be like I'm a badass, I'm a champion, I'm doing
my best. I'm trying and you can still go have
a laugh with a friend. Danna. What did you do
to become a champion this week? Um? I actually I

(01:06:30):
played tennis really well. Would you do to become a
champion this week? Um? I saw the cast from Criminal
Minds last night and we all got together and I've
talked about the possibility of the show maybe coming back
in some capacity, and we're all putting our heads together
and trying to make that happen. And that feels like
a real champion. I stood up to somebody that bullied

(01:06:50):
me on the tennis court and and and he apologized. Good.
Um any final any final words for our listeners? UM,
I don't know about what brings you joy or happiness
or something any any one little kernel of anything you
want to give to our listeners. Coming here and seeing
you this has been This is really nice and and

(01:07:11):
and the being a champion thing really has profoundly affected me.
And it's it's like a cherished piece of wisdom that
I'm holding onto and thinking about and walking around with.
And I will I think that's one of the best
things that's happened yes for me. And that's what something
you did for me in the last couple of weeks.
So I would say, think about that, think about what

(01:07:33):
ARDEN saying, Yes, I you know what I like And
I don't mean to be I don't mean to like
gender stereotype or whatever, but I I grew up with
some messaging. Even though my mom J J was the
best R I P, there was sort of this like
she taught me to be a baller, but there was
also like she wanted me to be like demure in
feminine and like there's something about versus like this this

(01:07:56):
self help, like I am lovable. I like that there's
an embracing. I also looked like a boy till I
was like fourteen, and people would be like, why is
the boy in the girl? And again there's nothing but
like I almost felt that I presented boyish and again
there's nothing wrong with that, but at the time and
at my age and when like the error that I
grew up in, that felt so it was not how

(01:08:17):
the other gals was not accepted really, and I like
that there's something kind of like embracing my masculine side
and my feminine side, that there's something badass and like
tough about like and glorious and spectacular about like I'm
a champion, Like it feels like not demure at all.

(01:08:37):
You know, do you agree with that? Yeah? I think
so it's nice. I don't know that. I don't know
if it's maybe it's different now, but I don't think
little girls my error were taught to be champions, no,
unless they were literally being like coached like from a
child to be like my dad did want me to
be an Olympic bicyclist. That did there? We go, Well, Paget,

(01:09:01):
what would you like to promote? Where can people find you?
But you know what, let's promote Paget's Instagram that is
not going to sell you a product, that is not
going to hold up a toilet seat and pretend she's
on first class. She's gonna bake mushrooms and point at
that point at pod Malch me, Okay, you got Paget.
I love you so much, Hart and I love you

(01:09:23):
and I want to just say my healthy risk in
life is like it is starting podcasts, inviting people into
getting to know them, and this enables me to actually
make friends. So that now like when I am around you,
I'm relaxed and like that's how I do it, So
like grow your planet. I need stuff like this all
right to all of our listeners. Oh my gosh, we
got some cool reviews. Anna. Here's one five stars. Our

(01:09:46):
daughters need to hear this right. This is from trist
Land error. I might have said that long trial, trie Land,
I said it wrong. One episode into this podcast, and
I am hooked as a woman who also struggled to
find her calling in this world. I felt empowered and
validated hearing the conversations in the episode with John Jett

(01:10:09):
Joan Jet. Our daughters need to hear these right, and
so to say, yeah, everybody needs to hear this. I'm
sorry I called John. Sometimes I get a little sleepy pie,
but you know what, I'm a human and that's what
we're learning, is like you just keep showing up the
best as you are. Um, well, thank you so much.

(01:10:31):
And uh, here's another one. This is from Marshmallow Person.
Five stars. Love it, amazing episode. Can't wait to hear more.
Oh yeah, thank you marshmallow Person. Yeah. I love marshmallows
and we appreciate it. So please feel free and we'll
read your review on the error and anything you want

(01:10:51):
to promote. I'm just Anna hosting on Twitter I'm at
Arta Marine A R D E N M y r
I N. And hey, if you like us, a subscribe
on Apple Podcasts or wherever, and it really helps if
you leave us reviews. And until next time, thanks for listening.
Bye M