The Overnight Sensation

Arden and Anna interview author (Well, That Escalated Quickly: Memoirs and Mistakes of an Accidental Activist), television writer (ICarly), comedian (The Nightly Show with Larry Wilmore), actor (Broad City) and activist Franchesca Ramsey about going viral overnight, the power of saying NO, the beauty of a work ethic, and learning to build your life how you want it. This podcast made Arden and Anna want to claim ownership of their lives!!! Franchesca is SOOOO INSPIRING!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:12):
That's no need distress. Oh my god, she is a lady. Hello,
welcome to another episode of Lady of the Road. My
name is Arte Marine. I'm coming to you from my
boogie garage in Los Angeles, California. My podcast host, who

(00:37):
is normally here with me, is still in England, Ms.
Julianne Robinson being all fancy filming some secret project. But
I have to say I am not sad at all
at who my co pilot is, the wind beneath my wings,
the woman who has been so many journeys with me,
podcasting all over friendship and work combined. Um. She is

(01:03):
the host of Ethnically Ambiguous. She is my podcast producer
and my friend. Ladies and gentlemen, Annah ho's n a
thank you for having me on this glorious day. It's
a pleasure. You look really cute in your spring wear.
Thank you, thank you. I'm about to bring on our guests,
and I'm gonna say I've now known you for eight years,

(01:25):
nine years. We've been around a lot of celebrities. I
have never seen you fan girl out harder than when
we were at Lacy Moseley's birthday party fourth of July.
I will say I kept my cool, I know, but
I will also say Miles gry and I turned around
and we're like, no literally, and like so this is
also where I met our guests, but you were and

(01:47):
I was like, oh my god, she's so cool. And
then you're like it was just like all I knew
was like, here's this person with like really on point,
fun colored eyeliner looking so cute at this like this
party where Lacey's mom yelled at and that hill where
she was sticking her landing. Lacey knows how to throw

(02:07):
a party. Um, but so that no, you were like,
oh my god, like be cool. That's Francesca Ramsey. Okay,
so if you fin no, literally, so do you need
to know that? And she like pretty like runs Will
Ferrell's podcast, she runs Chelsea Hamlets like Ramsy, you guys

(02:32):
don't know Francesco or if you do, let me just
read let me re establish her creds okay. She's an author,
a television writer, a comedian and actor, and activist, a
video blogger with over twenty nine million views. According to
your website, You're currently a writer for the TV show
I Carly with Lacey Mosley and our friend Jerry trainer. Um.

(02:53):
You were a former writer and contributor for the Nightly
Show with Larry Wilmore on Comedy Central, host of the
MTV news web series De Coded. You're the author of
the book I Am Holding in my hand that I
read and loved called Well that escalated quickly, Memoirs and
Mistakes of an Accidental Activist. You're an actor who's appeared

(03:16):
on Superstar and broad City, amongst other things. But you're
claimed a fame. Oh my god, you're claimed a fame.
And this is what it's like. I mean, as if
that's not enough, all of that is more than enough.
Can I just say Dr Banana? Yeah, she made this
a Vira, this video. So she was already like like a, well,

(03:36):
can get into this more. We'll get into more details.
But she had been like making videos, comedy videos, hair tutorials,
like she was already building up a following, and like
lightning in a bottle happened. She in two thousand twelve,
her video ship White Girls Stayed to Black Girls went
viral and in twenty four hours, I'm getting chilled. So

(03:57):
she was working at Ann Taylor as a graphic designer
Shout Shout Make Shoes up to what size size? Thank
you Haney, Bigfoot sisterhood. It's hard out here. Thank you
great accessories. Um this video. She posted this video and

(04:17):
overnight it got one point five million views in twenty
four hours, and then in five days it got five
million views. Um it also at the time I post
it took a few days. She beat out Justin Bieber,
who the most for the most watch video on YouTube.
And then within that week, um, she got an agent

(04:40):
and she got she was got an audition for Saturday
Night Live, which is like terrifying to like have like
a spur of the moment, and also was featured on
Anderson Cooper. I gotta tell you, holy cow, what a
ride our new friend. Oh my goodness, thank you so much.

(05:01):
What an intro that was so thorough. It was thorough.
But it's also like I think, just a testament, like
I was definitely drawn to you, but it was a
testament to just reading your book. And and I are workhorses,
like we love to work. And now we're also we
should also just full disclosure for our listeners at home.

(05:23):
We're all in the cult of Brent. We all take
tennis from so we're all trying to get balanced. But
but one of the things like reading your from the
get go, your work ethic, like doing the hair videos,
doing the comedy videos, applying for all you kept winning
all these contests. I am very type A like I

(05:43):
love a schedule, I love a checklist. I love to
be able to plan for things and get them done. Um.
It's been a part of my personality for as long
as I can remember, and I didn't know that it
would lead me to where I am. But now that
I'm here, I'm like, oh, yeah, like I actually did
work really hard to get here. And I'm sure you

(06:03):
appreciate this. To lots of people want to work in entertainment,
and they're kind of like, what's the secret. There's no secret.
You have to work very very hard or be somebody's
famous sister. Yes, I'm only chat, Yes, this is what
it was going to be. Well, that's true. Like I
it seems to me that it's like like talent plus

(06:27):
luck plus perseverance plus perseverance because any I also feel
like anybody can get a first lucky out of the
like then to then be able to sustain a career,
like nobody's going to magically just pluck you and you
know you and you have to have so much belief
in yourself because you have to again preaching in the

(06:49):
choir here you just get so many nose especially on
the Internet where you can see what everybody is saying
about you, And like, for me, that's been like, that's
partly what my book is about. It's been this push
and pull of like being accessible and engaging with the audience,
but also like trying to keep that from getting in
your head because you will see people say like they

(07:10):
don't deserve you, don't deserve it, You're not good enough,
this person is better, blah blah blah, and you have
to consistently push against that and be like, no, I
am good enough, like I should I should get this thing,
or and not take it personally when something doesn't work out,
because it doesn't mean that you're not good enough. It
just means like you weren't right for that thing, or
that person didn't see the vision. And there's many times

(07:31):
that I have not had that, but you know I
have gotten there. That really struck me reading your book.
I felt protective of you. I felt like how just
you're talking about the reaction of people have so many
things like and it felt like there was almost I
would imagine we could talk like a little bit about
going viral, but like it must have been like thrilling
but also somewhat lonely. Yeah. I mean it's so interesting

(07:55):
because I that viral video happened in two thousand and twelve,
and so much has happened since, Like, going viral is
not really a big deal anymore. Like anyone who has
a TikTok account, if you if you post pretty consistently,
you're gonna have one that goes viral, right or you're
gonna have a viral tweet if you're on Twitter a
fair amount. So now everybody's like I had a minute
where I was like famous for a second, but in

(08:15):
two thousand and twelve, like that was just it was
life changing. No one around me knew how to help me.
No one and my coworkers didn't even know I made
YouTube videos. You know. It was just it did feel
really alienating. And then what was so funny is for
a few years after that, I was the friend that
people called when they went viral, Like they would call

(08:36):
me and be like, what do I do? How do
I leverage this moment? Uh? And now again the the
landscape is so saturated. There are so many full time influencers,
and in two thousand twelve, it wasn't really like that. People.
There were definitely people who were making a living from it,
but not the way that we were seeing now, where

(08:57):
you know, you come out with a viral video and
now you come out with merch and you have a
song and you like go do collapse and you there's
like a recipe for what you're supposed to do. Now.
In two thousand twelve, especially because I had a regular job,
nobody was advising me. I was truly just kind of
like figuring it out on my own. I know, Anna,
you were you watched her videos before? Like you were

(09:19):
already Were you already aware of Francesca before this? Um? No,
I think I saw the viral video because it was
like towards the end of my college career. And then
I moved to l A and then I would hear
you on the read and then that's kind of how
I became really started to become more familiar with your work,
and then I would start watching more of your videos
and then um and then I yeah, and then you

(09:42):
went you were I saw you started to become a
correspondent on Larry Wilmore Show, and then yeah, I mean
I've just always followed your career because I feel like
I was like I was starting to get more into
YouTube and watching that content, and like that was always
fun because you know, we were in such a time
where it's like, so you were learning to like share
things your friends and being like sharing humor and like,

(10:03):
you know, just all this different stuff that you wanted
to be like, oh my god, you got to see
this funny video on YouTube, which now you're like, I
share like twenty memes a day to my friends on Instagram, TikTok.
You know. So it's like it was such an early time.
It really was. I was really interested in comedy and
like working in comedy. So it's like, you know, I
remember like being one of the first people like send

(10:24):
my friends YouTube videos to be like this person is
really funny on YouTube. It was a very different time.
You're so right. It's it's almost like a love language
now to send memes to people, you know, and I
have friends who are entire I message threat is just
memes and and and videos and things like that, And
at that time, it was really kind of like whoa

(10:45):
someone sent me a video like what is this? Was
it before instagram? Um? Instagram? I think was out, but
I wasn't like very active on it. I don't know.
It just it's strange because this year marks ten years.
It's act leans that I made that video, and I mean,
my life just changed so so much. But again, the
whole landscape of the internet has changed, because if you

(11:09):
think about it, the way that we talk about identity
and social justice and and like micrograph like all of
these things that are kind of in the zeitgeist now,
and two thousand twelve was not. I mean, Anderson Cooper
did a whole segment about like was my video racist
to white people? That I mean, I'm glad that we
did it. It was like incredible, But at the same time,

(11:31):
looking back, it's like that was ten years ago and
we were like, we were like, what's going on, Like,
explained to me, why why her wearing a blonde wig
is like not racists? It was it was like a
totally different time and that you were kind of all
by yourself out there, like yeah, I truly and like

(11:51):
not to give myself all the credit because there are
lots of people having these conversations. But it's wild to
me to watch TikTok and I'm like, all these people
of all the from backgrounds are breaking down, like all
of this cool identity ship and not talking so frankly
and so honestly about their struggles and like breaking it down,
and I'm like, yo, ten years ago people wanted to

(12:12):
have my fucking head for this, and now people are
building like full last careers off of it and getting
millions of views, and it's it's really really cool. I'm
glad that we're in that place because let me tell you,
I can't even imagine. I mean truly, like I I
can't even imagine. Because also, like you know, you're just
you know, making your videos working hard. I loved how

(12:34):
you were even saying auditioning for SNL like it was
hard because you know, you had been doing open mics.
But then you realize because you have you had a
good work, and you had a full time job as
a graphic designer, you couldn't go stay out all night
and so and I wasn't doing uc be, Like there
was just so much I didn't know. Like I went
to acting school and I left, but when I moved

(12:56):
to New York, Like I didn't have a comedy community
friends from school. I didn't know kind of like what
the the path was if you wanted to go to SNL.
I now know that there lots of different ways, but
generally it's like you go to uc B, you take
all the classes, you do, the showcases you do, you
join a house team, you do all these things. So

(13:16):
I got thrown in with people who had been practicing
their whole lives for this, and I was just like,
I've been like photoshopping Demi Moore space at and Taylor,
like that whole portion of your book, every aspect of it.
Of here's this woman who's been working really hard, but
like her day job is as a graphic designer at

(13:39):
and Taylor. I worked a full day of work and
then I went and did my SNL audition and like
and then I filmed Anderson Cooper. I was like leaving
on my lunch break to go on auditions. I was
doing coffee runs to talk on the phone with prospective managers.
I just didn't know how to. Yeah, it's like a movie.

(14:00):
I mean it really feels you could make a movie.
I feel like there could be some kind of like
I don't know. I feel like this could be a
Netflix or Hulu movie. I'm like this because you're almost
is like you want a contest or, Like it was
like overnight your life. I felt so protective of you
in various angles in that. I mean, the SNL is

(14:20):
the least of it. Like the SNL I auditioned for SNL.
I also didn't go like I'd done I. Oh, but
I was not a groundling. I did not do Second City.
I did not. I happened to make a tape in
my living room. I got flown to New York, and
then I was like on the stage. I didn't know
I was getting miked and put through hair and makeup,
and so I had never done those characters in front

(14:44):
of anyone except for the person that just filmed them
in my living room. Yeah, it's it is interesting how
we're in a time right now that you can go
Google and you can see people's en tape, you can
go watch. But I'm just saying that, like for somebody
who who wants to do that, they can do all
of the homework now, which is I will say, like

(15:05):
I try to be um cautious when people ask me,
you know, like how do you do it because there's
so much information now, that's right, it's easily accessible and free,
uh to find out whereas you know when you were auditioning,
when I was auditioning, like, I have no idea what
I was doing. And then that was like, did you

(15:27):
that was the Anderson Cooper thing? Also that same day? No,
it wasn't the same day. It was like, I think
I so the video went viral January fourth, and I
think I taped Anderson Cooper like the ten or the eleventh.
But okay, I had no agent, I had no publicist,

(15:47):
I had no manager. I did my own fucking makeup
Target from Target. Like I was truly like, I don't
know what I'm doing. I go on TV. I just didn't.
I love you, I love her, I love her. He
just didn't know. And I'm I am so appreciative because
it really was a life changing moment for me. I

(16:10):
did not know it at the time, and I'm I
am so fortunate that I somehow was able to string
a sentence together and still be funny and be honest,
even though like I genuinely was not prepared. I just
I just had no I didn't get to see the questions. Beforehand,
I knew nothing, so um and now it would be
a totally different interview today, I mean, and hopefully it

(16:34):
would be different just just reading the book and like
for for the people at home who don't know the
context of like what your video came out of. There
was a video that went viral, like super duper viral
yea called ship Girls Selday and it was this comedian.
It was just dude in a wig and he was
doing fairly innocuous like you know, it was vaguely misogynists.

(16:57):
It was harmless enough that it was fun. It was
sort of fun light, and it just when people like
went huge huge, It was huge. Juliet Lewis was in it.
I mean, I was like, rewatch it today? I was like,
how was she? It was just and it was like
his first year and it was like and it was
but he would say stuff that was very sort of harmless,

(17:18):
like in hand me that and like you know, so
then it just took off. And so then all these
parodies popped up, and the one like everyone was quickly
trying to figure out, like what's my angle, like there's
all these was and then the one that popped the
most was called Ship Black Girls Day. It was about
It was posted by a stand up comedian named Bill
Surrell's and who was doing a stereotypical black girl named

(17:41):
Peaches who liked blinking sunglasses and uh like basketball wives,
and he had jokes about like domestic violence. But yeah,
I mean it was pretty. It was like super over
the top, and I remember like it was funny. Yeah,
but I you know, I was working this graphic design job,
was the only black girl that worked my floor, and

(18:01):
like all my white coworkers were watching this and cracking up,
and I was just like this is making me uncomfortable.
Like I again, at that time, I did not have
the language to express why. I just was like, I'm
not like that girl. I'm not like that character. And
I don't know why you guys are finding this funny.
And it doesn't feel like laughing with with him. It

(18:22):
feels like laughing at this like oh my god, dad,
black girls are like that. Um. And so it really
got me thinking, like I want to do one. And
everyone was doing them and they were all doing well,
even if they were like not that great or they
were super niche like shit lactose intolerant moms with my
kids say, like there was an audience for that. So true.

(18:45):
I do love God. When I have darry by accident,
these do go badly. It's like so I was just like,
what am I going to do? What am I gonna do? Um?
So that was two thousand eleven and I was at
home for Christmas. I went home for Christmas and I
went my I went to a performing arts high school.

(19:06):
We're all still very tight. I'm friends with lots of
people I went high school with and we have this
reunion party every Christmas. Went to the reunion party, and
it was for many people the first time that they
had seen me with locks, with dreadlocks. And so there
was as everybody got drunk because I was the designated driver,
I was not drinking. As people got drunk er, just
everything came out, let me touch it, is it yours?

(19:27):
Blah blah blah, And I was like, holy sh it,
this is the video. And I made a little list
on my iPhone that i'd still have I did. I
don't want to keep everything. Yeah, and so it just
it was born out of that. It was truly I
knew I wanted to do something. I just wasn't sure
what and I was a little nervous because I thought, well, shit,

(19:48):
white girls Say two Black Girls is different from the original.
The original is ship blank Say. And I was really
worried that mine wouldn't work because of that. But in
in you know, many ways, it worked because it was different.
It kind of like breathed new life into the meme.
And then suddenly people started doing ship girls say to
gay guys, right like ship white people say to Latinos

(20:11):
or whatever it is. And so that kind of started
this new evolution. And again, like if you look at
TikTok all the front Face and comedy videos, like it's
all that same style, like quick cuts of people just
doing um a take on something right where we're like,
you know when your mom does this, and it's just
like a bunch of one liners. Yes, that style was

(20:31):
really bred out of like the ship girls Say meme,
and and so it's really cool to see how it's
evolved now. Well and and it just exploded, Oh my god,
it was. It was nuts. Okay, we're gonna take a
quick break and we're gonna come right back and keep talking.

(20:52):
So here we are, we're talking about going viral overnight,
and you know, it's just interesting reading about like how
hard he'd been working. You know, that you had been
gaining followers, you had attraction, like, but there was something
about you know, the the his video combined with you.
I mean, your the video is fantastic, Your video is fantastic,

(21:14):
but it's also the truth of your experience like that
that cuts through that that like and that everything that
was said in the video is something that had been said.
It's just horrified. I mean, it just I think it's
it's I'm so proud of it because it started some
really necessary conversations and I think what was hard for
a lot of people and myself at the time because again,

(21:35):
if you watch the Anderson Cooper interview, like I'm I'm
struggling to really explain like the phenomenon which now many
people understand to be microaggressions, right, these unintentional things that
people say to marginalize folks of all backgrounds, you know,
whether it be oh, you're I don't really like I'm
not a girl's girl, right, Like I like hanging with

(21:56):
like things that people are saying with the purpose of
being a compliment, but like they're still kind of undercutting
and pointing out that you're different, or you're better than
the other, or something about your identity is unexpected. So
I was saying these things knowing they made me uncomfortable,
but like just not really understanding how to explain what
was happening, right um, and so yeah, I didn't. To me,

(22:19):
I thought, well, this is about me growing up in
West Pond Beach and often being the only black girl
in the room. I didn't realize that it was the
experience of like black people everywhere, people of color everywhere,
queer folks, like there were just so many people reaching
out to me that are like I live in Idaho
and I'm the only black girl and this is exactly

(22:39):
what I go through, or like I'm in college right now,
and I was just like, whoa, this is so weird.
I had no idea. Um, And so again, like, it's
really cool that we're now in this place that you
can go online and see so many different types of
people speaking really authentically about their experience. And maybe you
live somewhere where you don't know any queer people, or

(23:01):
right literally, there are people who live in communities where
there's no one else that doesn't look like them, and
now you can go online and see like sketches and
vogs and video essays from people. Um, and it feels
really cool to have, in some small way be a
part of that. Absolutely. I think, you know, one of
the one of the one of my favorite quotes and

(23:21):
what Anna and I were we were talking about one
of the things that it really touched me, and then
she was saying, this is why she started her podcast.
But one of the things again, it's talking to like
the honesty of your experience and the stuff that has
resonated with people comes from some true part of like
just owning your corner of the world, like owning your experience.

(23:42):
I loved the phrase be who you needed when you
were younger like that and that's why you started. Yeah, yeah,
that's why I started ethnically in videos to my coast
because it was like I was the only Persian girl
growing up. Um, I didn't look like anyone else. Um,
no one understood even what you were on was And
it was just like, as a fourth grader, you're trying

(24:04):
to be like, well, you need to understand, you know so,
and then like there was another Persian girl who moved
into the neighborhood and went to school with me and
looked exactly like me, and everyone was like your cousin
ge one guy. I remember a teacher being like your
twins in my class, it's so good to happen. And
I was like, we're not related, and my god, and

(24:27):
at that age, like you don't know how to explain
to an adult, Like I had those situations too. I
remember I got I think I was in like fourth
grade and I got braids and my I came to
school and my history teacher was like, you look like
Whoopy Goldberg and I was like, oh my god. First
of all, I am a third grader, Yeah, the second

(24:48):
doesn't have in what world do I look like this one?
And I were it's so wild because I um, like
I've journaled since I was a kid. Do you keep
I have all of them? And my mom actually shipped
a bunch to me and I was looking through them
and I wrote about this moment that I've gotten these braids,
and I was like everyone at school is being so

(25:11):
crazy about my hair. When I was reading it, like
I didn't know like why it was making me a gay?
It was um and so yeah, like to now be
making a show for the person who you know doesn't
quote unquote fit into a box like that. It's almost
like taking your power back from that little girl who

(25:33):
was like, that's not my cousin. Yeah, and really like
I didn't. I remember. It's such a clear memory of
this teacher saying it to me and me just shaking
my head and running away because I did not know
how to process what he was saying, and me being like,
that's not I mean, which is funny because I did
go up to and be like, do you want to
be friends everyone? Like everyone thinks because in the neighborhood,

(26:00):
that's all you had. Like two point Also, my parents
reached out to her parents, was like, hey, we should
be like you don't want to be insulated us, like
the only Iranians, Like we're also here, let's all be friends.
So like we did, you know? We all you know?
And the Iranians you do. You find yourself in the
neighborhood and you become friends. But it was like really,
and that's you know, the only other Iranian person I
ever saw on TV with Christian I'm on poor who

(26:23):
was only half Iranian, so I was But to me,
I was like, that's it. I want to be I
want to be like her. She's a journalist, she's great,
she knows what she's talking about, she's so smart, she's
on CNN and you and so I always that's all
I ever knew. Poor do you think being like this
badass producer at I heart? So it has something to

(26:43):
do like with like do you think I mean? Yeah,
I mean I always really looked up to her. Now
politics are but like you know, still like I only
saw her, and so to me, I was like, well
that's it, that's all we have. And so then I
decided we wanted to do a show or you know
where you could like be like you're not alone, like
we went through everything you went. Yeah, I love that

(27:06):
so much. It's really it's always incredibly flattering and heartwarming
when people reach out and they say, because I did
a post to commemorate ten years and kind of a
little retrospective, and it was so cool just getting so
many messages that were like, oh my god, I needed
this when I was in I was in college, or

(27:26):
I showed this to my coworkers and we started a
conversation and um, when I stumbled on that be who
you needed when you were younger quo, I was like, Okay,
this is kind of like the ethos of the work
that I'm doing if it's just like silly and ridiculous
and doesn't necessarily have like a quote unquote message. I
feel like even just seeing a quirky black girl, yes,

(27:50):
you know, like dress is a certain way and it
is artistic and like does all these different things, Like
someone needs to see that so that to give them
the permission and the freedom to explain or lots of
different things. I'm a huge believer in that, Like you
got you gotta see it to be in if you
don't see examples of you know, in a much different way.
I remember I remember going I got an internship at

(28:14):
Conan in college. It was the first year it was
on and like there was not one woman in the
writer's room, you know what I mean, And like I
wanted to go like be on staff, like but there
was no one there, and I felt like the path
like oh maybe I could like go be like an
assistant or like but like when you when you're an

(28:34):
environment where you don't see anybody that looks like it's like,
oh that's not for me, that's not for us, and
so for you that it doesn't even like yeah, just
live in your life and being like like taking up
space and like the importance of some little girl or
some grown woman maybe some maybe somebody older than you,

(28:56):
like who didn't see that, but it was like, oh,
I can be that too. I think there's so much
value of just claiming like the version of like the
ownership of you in the world, like as you go.
One of the things I loved in your book was
hearing about how again the hustle that anybody looks, not

(29:18):
that most people don't go viral or whatever, but that
like you know, I know in this town, and I'm
sure this is true in any industry. Like I remember
my first job. It was like really easy to get
the first job, but then like there's that second wave
of like, oh yeah, we already know her, like there's
somebody like there's a new batch in town, and and
it's like so you can't just sit around waiting to

(29:41):
be plucked. That like you kept working and trying different
angles and doing different things, and then eventually I love
how you got decoded on MTV and that you were
asked to try out for the Larry Wilmar Show and
that you didn't get it. Yeah, I mean it's really
interesting because again, in hindsight, I'm like, wow, I don't

(30:02):
know how I had the foresight to do those things.
But I've always been the type of person who is like, well,
if you're not gonna give me the opportunity, I'm just
going to make something for myself. And so Decoded came
out of me trying to pitch a television show and
it's not happening, and MTV being like, hey, uh you
would would you be interested in trying to develop a

(30:23):
web series? And they paired me with a production company
and we made Decoded and uh. I was doing Decoded
and nightly show was announced and I emailed my agents
and I said, I have to got audition for this.
How do I How do I get a chance to audition?
So they did a showcase. I did the showcase, didn't
get it. Uh, they were accepting tapes. Later on, I

(30:46):
made a tape, didn't get it. And then I got
invited to be a guest um because of Decoded. They
saw Decoded and they were like, oh, maybe she could
be on the panel, and I was I was so
certain I couldn't do it. It was about the Republican debate,
and I was like oh this is not my forte.
I'm not a I was like, if we talk about identity, cool,

(31:06):
but I was just like I'm not really up on
politics in that way, not enough to like say something funny.
And my producer at MTV was Brendan Kennedy who now
works at Box and I love him or he works
at Vice excuse me, and uh, I love him. Has
always been a champion of mine and he was like,
you have to do it. I really believe this is

(31:28):
going to be good for you. Um. Jordan Carlos was
on the writing staff and j and I texted Jordan
and I was like, shut I don't know what to do.
And Jordan was like, yeah, come an hour early and
we'll sit down and we'll talk it through. So I
watched the debate and I wrote a bunch of notes.
You know. I remember like John Kasik was one of
the people, and I was like, how the fund do

(31:49):
you say this guy's name? Like like I just was
like just trying to what is this right. Jordan sat
down with me, we kind of went over my jokes.
He kind of helped me craft them. Did the show,
and Larry was like I heard him say like during
the commercial break, He's like, who is this girl trying
to get on the show. I have some tapes ready

(32:15):
for you. But for me, it was really important to
be open about that process because, especially in entertainment, you
see people's wins, especially in social media, you see everybody's wins.
You don't see how many times they they failed or
someone said no. And in this instance, it was like,

(32:36):
that was the way I was supposed to get on
the show. Obviously, the showcase and the tape submission were
not the right way for me to go. They had
to see me in person, and that's a totally different experience.
And so I always encourage people that when things don't
work out, you don't know in the moment. It's not
till later that you can look back and be, oh,

(32:56):
that was just not the way it was supposed to
happen for me. I think that's always such a it's
such a good reminder in all areas of like the
gifts of looking back, of like the good things that
might have come out of seeming roadblocks or like you know,
we've talked on the podcast about like I had a
lot of loss and a lot like when you add
in when when you like doing things. I've got going

(33:19):
towards the light because maybe things aren't working out, and
then like and then you have this beautiful garden because
you've gone towards the light that you wouldn't have had
if everything had worked out like or like if you
hadn't had a loss. I loved what you said in
the book too, that the first thing Larry when you
when Larry asked what you want, what job you wanted
or what your dream was, and what was your answer

(33:41):
to him? I mean, I said I wanted to have
his job, which I did at the time. And you
know what another great example of like, yeah, I thought
I wanted to be a late night host. I had
a late night comedy pilot, a comedy Central night host.
Well and and look at the time, I thought that's
really what I wanted. And I was devastated when I
didn't go. And now I'm so glad it didn't because

(34:03):
if I had to do fucking jokes about Donald Trump
for four years, I was like, God, bless the people
who can do it, because it's hard. It's really really hard.
You know. I worked on yearly departed two years, and
last year we had to do you know, we had
to write two endings for the show if Donald Trump
got elected and if he didn't get elected, right, And
I remember being like, I hate this. I hate having

(34:26):
to write jokes about this man. It's so challenging, it's
so hard. The news was so depressing or in the
middle of a pandemic, like it was just hard. And
so in hindsight, it's like if my show had gone
which I'm sure I would have made the best of it,
but it's hard to take what's happening in the news
and write jokes about and like going through that process

(34:46):
and going through Decoded for five years on a hundred
something episodes, it really told me like, I'm glad that
I had this experience, but I don't want to do
that anymore. I want to do stuff that's pure comedy,
maybe also has some identity and and deeper meaning, but
I want to have fun. I don't want to be
I don't want to be the punching bag. I don't
want to be the person who's supposed to process the

(35:09):
news for you, because it's really hard when you know
something happens and everyone's like, well, what's your take on it?
Like I don't know. I didn't go to school for
political science, like like I can't, I can't stay up
on everything in that way, and like it it was
like very draining. You did so many episodes the nightlish

(35:32):
I mean like and and again, like I even think
watching people who left Daily Show and had their own shows,
like I can't speak for John Oliver sam b but
like they're doing one night a week, and part of
me thinks, I wonder if it's because they did that
five day a week grind and they saw like how
freaking hard it was, and they're like, you know what,
I'm gonna do one night so I can pick the

(35:54):
best topics from the right rather than again, like this
was during that I was working in there during the election.
Something would happen and you you know, write the show,
and then Donald Trump would tweet something in the afternoon,
and then you'd have to throw out the whole show
because now we have to talk about what Donald Trump said.
Or you would go on Twitter and somebody would have
the joke that is in the cold open. It's just

(36:15):
like they're going to think we stole this joke because
there's a whole day of people just sitting around making
jokes and you're like I gotta come up with a
fresh take on my happened right, um, and so again
at the time when my show didn't go, I was like,
I'm so sad, I'm worse blah blah blah, and I'm like,
I'm glad it didn't go because that was not what

(36:38):
I was supposed to be doing. I mean it just
even hearing about that, just thinking about that. Did you
have any did you just work all the time? Did
you have any balance in your life. I was basically
working seven days a week because I was doing the
show and then doing nightly show, and I was a
writer and I was on camera, so you know, there

(36:59):
were some days that I had to be there a
lot earlier and some days I had to stay later.
Maybe I had a fitting or I had to you know,
um a field piece that I had to tape that
was going to go up the next day. And then
I was shooting to coded on the weekends. UM, and
I was also doing I had a podcast with my
ex husband at the time, so we were doing that,
and like I was also doing speaking gigs. I was.

(37:19):
I was working so so and I was also going
to the freaking gym three days a week at like
seven am before I went to fucking work, like I
was just work, work, work, work, work, And so again
I don't regret it. But the way I approach my
work now is a lot more leisurely. Like I don't
I say no to a lot of jobs. I don't

(37:41):
answer work emails on the weekend, like I tell my team,
I'm not fucking doing it. Um, if I take time off,
I'm I'm really not on social media as much anymore.
I have, like I take months breaks away from social
so that I can focus on projects or just work
on myself. Um. When I am back on social all
socialism at an hour time limit, I'm like, I'm not

(38:03):
going to be on here answering every comment. I'm not
going to be on here reading what everybody says about
what I'm doing or what I should be doing. I
think this is such an important topic that I kind
of want to give it its own segments. So we're
going to take a little break and we'll be right back,
and we're back. And this is something that I know

(38:25):
Anna has really been struggling with lately, and I definitely,
I very much have had lack of balance in my
life and in a weird way, the pandemic and the
divorce gave me more balance in a strange way than
I've ever had. But talking about burnout and so you're
going over, would you mind us saying a few so
you don't take you don't do any work emails on

(38:47):
the weekend. Now, this is this is a new thing.
I've been doing this for like three or four months. Okay,
it's you know, here's the thing. I am one so
thankful for my therapist. Shout out to her. I wish
she got commission. Every time I mentioned her because Home
Girls stays in my group chats and my maidens, like,
I talked about her all the time. But I started
going I went to her. Started going to her right

(39:08):
before the book came out because I was so stressed
and so worried about like what are people going to
say and what's going to happired? Yeah, I was really terrified.
And so a lot of my relationship with her has
been working through balance work life balance, um, negative self
talk and and like letting the internet be too much

(39:30):
of a deciding factor in my happiness and my productivity.
What does your brain tell you when it's mean to you?
I mean, I like I am really good at internalizing
things that other people have said about me, like the
things that I wouldn't have entered my mind, but then
I see someone else say it, and then I'm like, wait,
maybe they are true, right, you know, I started like
building these negative ideas about myself. Um and also just uh,

(39:55):
letting I had anxiety and like letting my anxiety get
in the way of my productive But he almost as
like a coping mechanism, where like I'll put things off
to the very last minute, and then when it's not good,
I can blame well, I didn't have enough time, and
that's why it wasn't good. That's why I didn't work
out instead of just like doing it when I should have.
And a large part of that was just like dicking

(40:16):
around on social media reading what everybody was saying. And
that really stood out to I wanted again, because I'm
a good pupil. I like to be like you know,
it really struck me was the jealousy stuff, and then that,
like somebody said, look at your work like a contract
you have with yourself. Getting auditions is work. Posting videos

(40:40):
is work. Even if you don't get the job or
go viral, you've still met the conditions of your contract.
And then you were saying, but most a lot of
the time, you're going about your career all wrong. Instead
of hating, you should have been studying. And I learned
that from a girl I was very jealous of. She
had a career that I really wanted, and I met
her at a party and I was being cordial and friendly,

(41:01):
but inside of a seething like this fucking bit, she's
so successful. And this is also coming out of you
talking about procrastinating just just to like circle it and
like with your anxiety, and I felt like you'd be
nervous about auditions. I get anxiety. I have a lot
of anxiety with all auditions and stuff like that. So
there's certain things I've built in. I have to hire
somebody to run the fifteen times, like I have to
just get it on the books, because I will also

(41:22):
self sabotage. I'll just be unprepared. But um uh yeah,
And and I were talking about that, like of of
learning to like push away from the table with both
hands a little bit to social media of like so
that you're not feeding yourself you're stealing your own time. Well,
if the thing I liked about what this girl said
to me, this idea of like making a contract with yourself,

(41:44):
and this has been really game changing for me, is
setting goals for yourself that are fully within your control.
If you are setting out to win an oscar, right
like there are tons of talented, successful people that don't
have oscars. You cannot, you know, put yourself a situation
where you are going to win an oscar. But if
you say I'm going to you know, write a movie,

(42:08):
or I'm going to make a short film with my friends,
or I'm going to make sure i'm off book for
the audition, you can make sure you do that. You
can't navigate. You can't decide if you book the audition.
You can't decide if the movie gets sold for a
hundred thousand dollars or exit amount of dollars or whatever. Similarly,
to you get an audition, you can make sure that
you're ready and prepared and you you know, set up

(42:30):
your backdrop the best way possible, learn how to get
your lighting right, whatever it is. And so I had
been thinking about my career as in like, well, if
I don't get the New York Times bestseller, I'm a failure.
If I don't get us, and now if my pilot
doesn't go to series, I'm a failure. Instead of going
like I wrote a whole last book, like most people

(42:50):
don't do that. That's amazing. I got the opportunity shoot
a pilot like I you know, I tried different characters,
I did a song, I did whatever it was um
and it was again really eye opening meeting somebody who
I thought she has it all. Her life is amazing,
her career is amazing. And then I met her and
she was like, no, girls love fucking work. I'll work

(43:11):
my ass off. And when I was honest with myself,
I had to admit that I wasn't working as hard
as I could have. I was spending more time thinking
about how this girl was getting opportunities that I should
have had instead of sucking doing the work to try
and get the opportunities myself. I love that because you
have a full plate. And like, I know one thing,
Anna and I've talked a lot on the podcast, and

(43:32):
we're talking about in real life, like Anna's Anna's work
has really I mean, you can speak for yourself, but
during the pandemic, yeah, it's kind of hard time. She's
having a hard time with like with balance. YEA, yeah,
it's been what do you What are you finding that
you're struggling the most with. I think I struggle to
say no because I feel like it like I I mean,

(43:52):
I talked about this with Harden before, but like I
am always like okay, like my career is like taking off.
I'm doing well, but I'm working a lot. But if
I say no to something, am I potentially turning down
an opportunity that could further my career? I have that
I I I hear you one because I've had that too.
The thing that has been really freeing for me is

(44:16):
kind of planning, like what's the big thing I want
to work towards, so that I can use that as
a funnel when something comes in, I can say, you know,
and I don't think this is leading me towards the
thing that I really want. What is the big thing
right now? Right now? My big thing is I want
an overall deal? Yes, I mean, and I'm I have
two shows in development at two competing UH streamers, you know,

(44:39):
like so and they're they're they're big projects. So I'm
kind of like, Okay, we'll see where those go. And
if those don't go, go I'm gonna, you know, go
back to staffing on a show. I have like features
and development. Right, so when things come in, whether it
be like a brand deal for some app and I'm like,
that's not getting me towards that overall deal. It's going

(44:59):
to be a no for me, right, And so like
you have to kind of sit down and really think
about what is the dream situation for you so that
you can say, like, this is a cool and and
and the other thing too is like when you say
no to something something I really like to do, is
I like to say, this isn't the right fit for me,
But I'd love to recommend someone if you're open to it,

(45:21):
because it's a nice way to stay ingratiated with the person.
But it's also just like good karma to hand it
off to somebody that you know, and it keeps the
door open because it says to them it's not that
you don't like them or you think their work is bad.
And and most people I found are really um appreciative
when you give a gracious pass where you're like, you

(45:42):
know what, I'm actually taking the next month off from
this kind of stuff. This sounds really cool, though, um
can I get back and I look through my my
little roll ducks and give you some names. In my experience,
people are like really happy. And I can't tell you
how many friends have been like, holy sh it, out
of the blue, I got this job and they were like,
oh yeah, Francisca is the person that said that I

(46:03):
should call you. You know, may be a good way
to think about some of these opportunities. So you're not
you're not shooting yourself in the foot, like another thing
is going to come. Your career is not going to
go away tomorrow just because you say no to something. Yeah,
I need to do that more. A couple of years ago,
I was, and I still it's not great, but I
realized like it was when I started. I was touring

(46:25):
a lot doing stand up and I realized, like I
was like, oh is my ladder on the right Like
my goal was never to be stand up was never
the number one thing for me. And then but then
I was like out of town a lot, so I
would miss auditions. But then they're like, and then people
would stop thinking of you because you're gone a lot,
and it's like it is my ladder on the right wall,
like and I don't know it was. There's just something

(46:47):
sort of really like assessing like what's like what's the
big dream? Like what? Like what? And and being willing
to be like, Okay, I'm chasing this because it's guaranteed income,
but like am I willing to bet on myself? I
have not missed it since and I've been able to
pay for my life. And also what kind of life
do you want? Right? Where it's like, Okay, you're making money,

(47:10):
You're you're finding success. But if you work all the time,
do you even get to enjoy the success that you have?
Are you getting are you out to dinner with your
friends and in being president? Are you thinking about work
the whole time? Right? Are you at a show and
you're like watching the show and enjoying it? Are you
thinking about your emails? Right? It's like what is the
quality of life that you want to have? And saying

(47:34):
the world is not going to end if you say, hey,
I don't answer emails after six pm, right, or like, hey,
it's the weekend, I have auto a little autos funder.
Thanks for your email. I check my emails on Monday,
or if you you know, if you need to reach me,
talk to my reps like that was a big one

(47:54):
for me where it's like just put it on there,
I'll deal with this. You guys handle it. I got assistant.
There's a number of things where I'm like, oh, you
do this, you know, and give yourself permission, not I
promise you like you're you are. You will stay housed,
you will stay fed, you still have clothes on your back,

(48:16):
you know, And that is a luxury, Like that is
a privilege. There are lots of people that are not
in that situation, and so you kind of have to
remind yourself, like to be in a position to say
no to work is a huge privilege, and you deserve
and you've earned the time off in order to work
on yourself and do stuff that has nothing to do
with work. Yeah, you're right, I know I need to

(48:38):
work on that. I will say I did tell people
I wouldn't respond to emails before a thirty in the
morning anymore. Like that. It's like, leave me alone in
the morning, I don't care. Well, so somebody else will
get the job. Somebody else will be psyched and get
the job. You know. Sometimes I try to think about
also being like proactive not reactive, because I get so
I get there's certain crazy makers when they text me

(49:01):
or email me that like really rattle me. And then
and then it makes anybody that sends like the phrase
a SAP, It's like nothing is a s A P
like anything. It just it has like an effect on
my body. I start, you know, but like that the
people that are the a SAP people, you know, it's
like just because somebody else, somebody else's a SAP is
their problem. I know. I'm emergency on your part problem,

(49:26):
so like proactive, So I try to on the I
haven't been doing it as much lately, but I when
I do, I have better days. One thing that has
helped me try to navigate my own anxiety and my
own people pleasingness and trying to not go against myself
is like writing out the day in advance or the
weekend advance as if it's already happened, so that I'm

(49:47):
charting the course of the day so that I don't
throw my whole day out of somebody, some ASAP person
like that. It's almost like on an airplane, like me
first than you if you travel the child with the
oct mask, but that like you're allowed to have the
more success do you get the more requests you're going
to get because you're I mean, I love working with

(50:09):
You're such a great podcast producer. I'm proud of you
because you've recently asked for more help, like that you
don't have to do everything alone, but like you're going
to have more and more people pulling at your shirt,
and so it's like maybe being the phrase of like,
let me get back to you on that. I don't know. Yeah,
that is actually the one thing I do still struggle with.
I now have two people working for me, but I
struggle to I don't like I want to like give

(50:32):
off work, and then I'm like, am I being rude
asking them to do this for me? Still getting over
that hump of being the person who does the work
for someone else to being the person in charge to
being like I'm so sorry to ask. Well, that's what
they help to me and they're like, do you want
me to do that? And I'm like, oh god, yes.
I also think I will say though, I think that

(50:53):
that is conditioning as women like this idea that we're
supposed to be nurturers and we're supposed to handle everything.
Because I had that same problem of like not wanting
to pass off things to my my reps or um
or you know, my assistant, where I'm like, I'm paying
this person, this is their job or in this instance
they work for you, write like you need to give

(51:16):
them things to do. It gives them esteemable acts of like, hey,
I did you know? Like yeah, and like the your
success is their success in a way, especially because they
work for you, and so like and giving yourself credit
to say like I hired people who are capable and
talented and they can handle this, and if they can't
handle it, they'll tell me and we'll go from there,

(51:39):
you know. But and I get it, like it's something
that you have to really set your intentions on and
being like this is the thing I'm gonna work up,
this is the thing I'm gonna get better at. And
it's not just you, it's it's a lot of people.
I found myself one saying this to myself but also
saying this to my friends. And I do think the
pandemic for me has been perspective shifting in that way,

(52:02):
thinking about like where I put my time, who I
invest my time with. You know, it's like every time
you leave the house, could this be the time I
could COVID. Do I really want to do this right
that I really want to spend time with these people,
right and so um, really I think that, you know,
tennis bringing us together it's been really fun, like saying like, oh,

(52:26):
this is a fun, enriching thing where I mean, look,
we never talked about work at tennis. No, I don't
know what the people. I don't know what any of
these people do. I love it. I like making up ideas.
I love guessing. I'm obsessed with all the all the strangers.
I'm obsessed. It's great. Our coach had something really funny,

(52:47):
which was we were like trying to make him tell
us people's names because he has nicknames for everyone. And
he said, that's not the point. You come here to
be a different person and forget your life. You can
be whoever you want here, And I was like, He's
it's so true. Oh my god, what's your nickname? What
did he call you? I actually don't have a nickname.
I don't have I don't have a nickname either. I'm

(53:07):
private Benjamin, think like Goldie Hawn and he goes private
Benjamin and then I go party for doing I haven't
got a nickname. Yeah, I mean Something that we talked
about in our love for tennis is having hobbies that
were not monetizing. And I think, no matter who you are,

(53:28):
anything you do you draw a doodle and people are like,
you can make a book. Yeah, I'm never going to
be at the US Open Center court or will or
I'm shooting towards it. I mean, who knows you could.
But there is something really nice about Okay, this is
just fun just for me and the community aspect. Also, yes,

(53:51):
I moved here during the pandemic, and I have very
much leaned into or I'm trying to lean into cultivating
my relationships, which is like why I'm so glad you
and I was so honored are literally said to me like, hey,
I would love for us to be friends. Yeah, I
feel like I don't watch The Bachelor, but I was like,
is this what it feels like? A row? I'm learning

(54:14):
how to do it, but it's But I think the
pandemic for me made me have this moment of like, man,
who who am I thinking about? Like, oh, man, I
haven't talked to this person a long time, and if
something happened to them, I'd feel terrible. Yeah, I haven't
talked to them an x amount of years, right, Like,
how do I put some time on the calendar that
we always catch up versus wasting time on people? But

(54:35):
I don't really love and enjoy you maybe feel us
alone too because um, because we both have v d
E big divorce energy. But like you know, you know,
we were both married for a long time and we're
both now single. I've never dated before, and so it
feels nice like we text each other and it just
makes it feel more almost like not in a bad way,

(54:59):
but kind of almost were of a game, like like
it feels less personally like oh I had a date,
maybe didn't go great, or like I had a date,
it was great, but like does somebody just sort of
check in with and I know, like like my friend
is out there doing it too, and she's taking a
healthy risk and like just and again like I know,
like just like some of like well I had a
fun one or oh this wasn't so good, but like
it feels nice to not be alone because on that journey,

(55:22):
Like that's that the beauty of community. Oh yeah, absolutely,
And for me like being new to Los Angeles, like
it is especially during a pandemic and Los Angeles is
a lonely city. So I know when I first moved here,
I had everything in the world. I moved here with
the sitcom. I knew no one, so I had on paper,

(55:45):
I had everything I wanted, and I cried every day
I was I didn't have any friends. It was before
like any of the like UCP wasn't it with things
didn't exist like that, And it was like I had,
I got everything I thought I want on it and
I realized, I will say this, it does show you
the outward success. I had everything on paper I thought
I wanted, and I'd never been sat er in my life.

(56:08):
You know, l A. Just like laughing with a girlfriend
at the end of the day, Like even if I
didn't book an audition, I had three dollars in the bag.
We would you know, watch TV and have a laugh
and maybe have a drink or whatever, like a snack,
Like just when you don't have that in your day
to day life, you know, l A, You're like, where
do I go? Like we're the seasons? What is this? Yeah?

(56:29):
Everyone spread out. It's kind of siloed. And I was
even saying today I had lunch with a friend and
they you know, I moved here from New York. I
was in New York for eleven years, and they said,
do you miss New York? And I said, no, I
don't miss New York, but sometimes I miss like the
community of New York, where like you ride the train
and I don't know that person, but we always ride

(56:49):
the train at the same time, and so we always
like say, hey, what's up, Like, yeah, obviously on the
same schedule, right. Or I come home late from a
party and like the old lady sitting on my stupids, like, oh,
good girl, you look yeah. The Delli guy, the deli guy,
your deli guy, exactly. You come in and they're like, oh,
you got a haircut, and I'm like yeah, And I
don't know this person, but like we just feel like

(57:12):
we're all part of the same community because we all
live in the neighborhood. And I don't have that in
l A. I have never seen my neighbors. Right. There's
some people because I have a dog, like, so we
see each other walking dog. But it's I go days
where I don't see anyone. I will say that. I
remember reading an article like when the pandemic hit and

(57:33):
they were saying one of the like thing because it's
it's it's hard on everyone. But like they were saying,
one of the things that like it's not fully acknowledged
is all the lady on the stoop, the guys the deli,
like this stuff that you take for granted, something you're
not going to call, but that that is actually a
very big part of who you are and reminds me
you who you were. You lonely when you move to

(57:54):
l Anna. Well, I just graduated college. So yeah, all
my friends, I was the only friend who went to
l A because I'm from northern California and I went
to UC Davis. Everyone else went to the Bay Area
to work, and I moved to l A by myself,
and it was like I didn't know anyone and you
just have to establish yourself. Making friends as an adult
is hard. It is really hard. You don't know the

(58:18):
first kiss, you don't know, like all this stuff. Why
you don't know this stuff about somebody's family. You don't know,
like you know, the bad haircut you have, you miss
all that. Yeah, I mean it really has been an
exercise in putting myself out there. And again that's why
I was so flattered when you were like, hey, I
would love to be friends. I love to hang out,

(58:39):
and I'm trying to take that initiative to and kind
of what you were saying about the connection of the pandemic.
It's like you know when you're at the coffee shop
and somebody compliments your shoes and you end up talking
to them and you're like, oh, yeah, I had a
great day. I'm realizing like, oh, I missed dressing up
and going place, was spending all day in pajamas and
forgetting like how nice it is to had a cute

(59:00):
outfit on and do your makeup and all those things,
and so pushing myself to do that again. It has
been really really nice, um but exhausting in a way
of like, oh damn, I spent two years in the
house and I'm tired when I when I'm so we
were all we were just saying we're all not quite

(59:21):
a hundred, like we're all to be really like it
presents normal, it looks externally, but like just have the compassion.
I'll just speak for myself. There's like we've been through
some stuff and like and we're still going yeah, and
there's like a little bit of like a slight walking
wound almost the low grade fever, like there's something a

(59:43):
little and that's honestly why I love tennis so much.
We should also say to our listeners, this is not bougie.
This is like a rec center that the bathroom the
first time reason the bathroom there was blood over the wall.
Our incredible coach has like gigantic McDonald's contin ners and
the same sat every day. We love him, but this

(01:00:04):
is not like we're not going to the bill are
for That's what I love at the club eight dollars. Well,
I didn't realize how lucky we were in that respect
because when I told my friend in New York it's
eight bucks to rent the she's like in New York
it's like a hundred. Then what what about the part? Well,
I think I think one. I don't know this for certain,

(01:00:25):
but we were theorizing that because of the season's changing,
there's probably more to keep one to keep the courts
like in good condition because they have to they have
to take care of it in the winter, right, and
then like they have a very small amount of time
where people can use them, so there's like high demand. Um,
and then it's not like here we're in New York, city,

(01:00:48):
like you're on top of each other. There's not a
lot of places to put a tennis court. It's not
going to be like here where there's tons of tennis courts.
There's like a few of them and there's only limited
amount and everybody wants to use them. So yeah, we're
very very fortunate here and the fun of I feel
like again, I just I feel like the community of

(01:01:11):
so I just I just go all the time. And
it's been like pushing through fears of old narratives of
like I could work out, but I'm not an athlete.
It's like, yes I am. I'm an athlete. I can
hold my own I'm allowed to be there even if
I have a bad day, And like learning all the
personalities I can, like learning to deal with sometimes guys
that can be bullied like a girl, like that's not

(01:01:32):
my problem, and like standing up to people and say
don't talk to me that way, and like it's it's
practicing this stuff that is my own things in real
time in a way that it doesn't fully matter. It's
not it's not a work site, it's not my personal life.
I get to practice in the world of these tennis
clinics with strangers who are now becoming acquaintances, some of

(01:01:55):
whom are friends. Like I get to learn how to
navigate and stand up to people and stand up the
bully in my own head about myself of like these
old ideas, and I get strong and become a champion.
I love that when I'm playing tennis, I'm not thinking
about everything else. You can't. You can't. It's meditative. Yes,

(01:02:17):
you just have to focus on the ball. You can't
check your email, you cannot check a text. Let me
tell you, one of the best things I ever did
for myself was turned off all the medications on my phone.
I had a friend who said to me, if the
alien invasion happens, no one's gonna fucking text you about it.
They're going to call you. They're not going to send
you an email. It's not going to be a tweet.

(01:02:37):
And as soon as I turned on that ship off
and I just like check it every once in a while.
To your point, when you're on the court, you don't
know what has happened in your email. You're not looking
at the New York Times alert, you're not thinking about that.
You're one you don't want to hit by the ball,
do you want to hit it back. Um, And so
that has been I didn't realize how badly I need yes,

(01:03:01):
because I could have a bad day. And when you
come to tennis, no one's like how is work. They're
just like, hey, yeah, I know, I love your sneakers.
Yeah yeah, whose team are you on? But we're all
just like we're in it, We're present. No one is
thinking about like did you book the audition? No? No,
how you want? Yeah you can be I can be private.

(01:03:23):
Benjamin were parting for duty. Do you want a nickname? Oh?
I don't care. He called me footwork for a while.
That's good. Foks kind of fell off because my some
of the guys call me Visor because I always like,
come on Advisor, you get advisor. Oh my god. And
to that point, I love I love a look. I

(01:03:45):
love a look. We were just texting. I love the
fact that a look can be so cute, but you're
also like a warrior, Like it's such a tough it's
like you're in battle, but you look you look like
you're like you're going to the club. And that's the
best thing about tennis. Those also you don't need you
can have a look. I love you wear whatever you want,
but like, oh your your looks are I've been so

(01:04:08):
into it, you know what I mean, Like, one thing
I'm gonna do is be over dressed. That's my new friend.
That's right, that's my friend. The choir. I'm somewhere. I
want people to be like energy. I want to bring
you me and look at her, Look at her. I

(01:04:31):
didn't even know and she was like big cool. Just
let me tell you. I shout out to my mom
because when I was a kid, I remember being so
annoyed that my mother would be so anal about you
gotta have polished on the nails, don't you don't want
to have a brass strap show like I would get
in the car for school, my MOMBI better turn back around.

(01:04:53):
I'm not wearing that to school. And I should be
like why she always like this and now it's an adult.
I'm like, oh, this is is why, because like it
does feel really nice to be minding my own business
and somebody is just like, I'm sorry that blouse. I
know it is. Where you're wearing today is everything? I mean, look,

(01:05:17):
it's a podcast, but I'm still going to serve. Where
is it from? Um? This shirt is Rachel Antonof looks snakes.
It's like a little halter top and then you have
you have literally waisted paperback paper paper. Yes, well, and
I'm doing this new thing. I told you that I

(01:05:39):
am only shopping secondhand last year. Those both secondhand posh
mock baby. This is not sponsored, but it should be. Okay.
I love it. It makes me feel like I'm like
I'm having like an Indiana Jones moment where I'm like
excavating and I'm like, I'm gonna find that fucking temple doom.
Like by if there's an item I want, I want

(01:06:01):
to find it secondhand. How have you been doing that?
I'm going on month four, but it's my plan for
the whole year. What did you wear to my holiday party? Oh?
I wore a pair of sequined Millie pants yea that
were second hand. Um and a black turtle net yes.

(01:06:23):
And a little pink clutch, little papacola you and a
Rachel Antonov jumped suit on my holiday party. Didn't you
wear that velvet jump suit to my holiday party? I
didn't wear it to your holiday part, but I definitely
got that. I waited for the I got the green
one with the Mallards on it. Yeah, I have the

(01:06:43):
I have like the purple one with like the little
leopard spot. Yeah. See. I waited until there was a sale,
and I was like I have to Oh yeah, I
got the dress I wore last summer in Rhode Island.
I waited till there was a sale, and then I
got there talking about person. I couldn't. I'm not gonna
pay four hundred dollars for games us, But I went.
There was a sale, and then I was the new
customers who got the astro fits off. And then I

(01:07:04):
had the crisscross back like a darling, little little little
you know, Queen Anne's lace from the field, like a phoenix,
covered in covered in gang. I'm rising from the ashes.
Oh my god, Well, do you have any final questions
for your for the person? I've saw you freak out

(01:07:25):
at the most. That was funny because you were like, wow,
she was nice, and Miles and I were like, she
was nice heart. That was France. Be cool. When we
got in the uber, like do you even know who
you were speaking? I got and was like telling we
got her phone numbering, Like, you guys are cools. If

(01:07:53):
I had not been school, like if I was I
wouldn't we wouldn't be sitting here because I'm such a
weirdo and I'm like so like, I'm grateful that I
was not fully aware that a quiz is it not
PRIs I mean, I knew, but it was clear he
kind of drawn to her like a moth to a fla.
I mean, I was clearly like there was a lot
of cool beautiful Also, remember this was like in the summer.

(01:08:14):
We had all gotten vaccinated. This is like the first
time being outside. Don't do we know that we were
only in like two weeks of it, but that was there,
like it's over. Everybody was hugging and that's the side
of this mask off is like take it off. Yeah,
we were. That was like a rare moment where we

(01:08:35):
felt like, oh my god, at the end of the tunnel.
Oh yeah. Now we're always like when's the next wave? Yeah? Right,
that wave? Baby? God, like planet quick because you never
know when the next one's coming. Are you rushing on
the odelt? Yeah? Is there any final words of wisdom

(01:08:56):
that you feel these ladies need to know or anybody
listening to live there best lives and get or just
learn how to ignore the voice in their head or
balance or whatever. And you know this is I've talked
about this so many times. I'm reading this book called Fear,
Self Compassion, and it has been such a game changer.
But one of the exercises was think about when you

(01:09:20):
have a friend going through a difficult time, how you
show up and support them, and then think about how
you talk to yourself when you're going through a difficult time.
And the stark difference between the way that we care
for our friends and it's different with our family, right,
because your friends are a chosen family. We show up
for them, We give them all this love and compassion.

(01:09:41):
We we validate their fears, but we also remind them
how great and special they are, and how talented and
hard working they are. And then when we're going through something,
we're like, I'm the worst. But so I will leave
you with the with the thought of, like, try to
show up for yourself the way that you show up
for your friends, even if it's just talking to yourself.
The book has all these exercises where you have to

(01:10:02):
like hug yourself and say like, I'm allowed to be sad,
I'm allowed to have hard days. Even champions have that
day even champions, even champions, even champions sometimes miss the goals. Haters,
you know what I mean, Like you just gotta remind
yourself right, you are okay, right even and I it

(01:10:23):
has crazy people, they're wrong, but just the just the
reminder that like everybody has those days and everybody has
to like work through their fears has been so like
earth shattering for me. Um, And so yeah, I encourage
you to just try and before you dive into that

(01:10:44):
negative self talk, be like would I let my friend
talk to themselves this way? Um? And then show up
for yourself the way you show up for your friends.
Can I just say, I feel like our friendship really
got even closer today, Anna, do you feel like you
made a friend today? Did he? I'm gonna ask my
final question, what did you do to be a champion

(01:11:05):
this week? But you push through healthy risk? What was
a champion move on your part? Um? Well, you know,
I did go to tennis three days this week and
I and I really on Monday, I don't know what
got into me, but I was crushing it on Monday.
I was like, I like I turned a corner. I

(01:11:25):
was just in the zone. It was great, and um,
it just makes me excited to see myself getting better. Um,
and something that's just for me. It feels really nice.
What did you do to become a champion this weekend?
I do felt I played Monday was a good tennis night.
I feel good because I remember you saying I'm exhausted

(01:11:47):
running back and forth from Live Baxu. You kept getting
into like the other winner side, and was like, yeah,
it feels good because you feel that exhaustion. And You're like, oh,
I keep going back and forth, but that's a good thing.
I'm staying in the game. That's you want to know
what I did become a champion. So I'm helping, you know,
I love design and I'm helping my brother. Um, he
has my parents house in Rhode Island, and I'm helping

(01:12:08):
him re sort of like it up a little. And
so we're redoing the kid's bathroom, which was our bathroom,
and UM, I'm the designer. And I talked to Siconic,
the guy Sicano Plumbing, the head of the plumbing, and UM,
He's like, no, you know you got you can't have
three hands. That's it's not up to Rhode Island code.

(01:12:29):
And I so I sent off a bunch of emails
with my brother dealing with like Rhode Island code stuff
and like you know, talking about valves and codes. And
like my brother was like that is so cool, Like
you're talking to plumbers about Rhode Island state code and
that this this valve isn't up to code, but this
valve is code. And like I and I held my

(01:12:49):
own and he he didn't talk down to me, and
it was like it was good talking to you. And
like I talked code and valves with Rhode Island plumbers
and I felt like a could champion. I talked when
I was state plumbing code. Oh my god, wait one
more thing, yeah, shout out to my therapist. My therapist
encouraged me to make what's called a winds jar. Yeah.

(01:13:11):
And so every time you have a win, you write
it down in a card and you put it in
that jar. And then when you're having a bad day,
you just pick one out of the jar and you're like, oh, ship,
I would tell you to put that in that windstar.
I was stay code because that was a month from now.
When you're having a bad day, you're not going to
remember that, like little yea And then you open it
You're like, oh right, can I just say another thing

(01:13:34):
that maybe things well and I promised listeners will end okay.
So Stephen Falk, who's the showrunner, um, he and I
developed a show together that did not sell, but we
were tried to sell it. And he was saying that,
like when he gets nervous from stuff or every meeting
he has every pitch like sometimes he gets nervous, but
he actually afterwards takes his hand and pats himself on

(01:13:55):
the back after he leaves. It's just like good job buddy,
like and he literally does good job after like a
pitch meeting, like it doesn't necessarily mean that you made
the said you made the contract with yourself. But then
at the end of the he gives himself like a
he gives himself a good job buddy, like a physical
pat on the back. So what was the positive jar
and the wind jar wind jar? We have the We

(01:14:18):
have the like be kind, be kind to yourself like
you would to a from the same compassion that you
would treat a friend, shop for yourself, and we have
the pat on the back. I feel like that's a
really successful go Friendship Tennis Team podcast. What would you
like to promote Francesco. Where can people find you? You
can find me all over social media as CHESSCA Lee

(01:14:41):
C H E S E A L E I G H.
And I don't have anything to promote right now, and
it's kind of in this fun little holding pattern as
I wait to see what the fate of my projects is.
But you know what it's it's a good place to be.
I feel very fortunate. Well, do yourself a favor if
you haven't read my friend's book, and order yourself a
copy of Uh Well That Escalated Quickly, Memoirs and Mistakes

(01:15:03):
of an Accidental Activist. It's a beautiful book and you
will be so glad that you read it. Um, where
can people find you? Dr Banana? I'm just I'm at
Arta marine M y R I M. We've got some
nice reviews. We appreciate when you guys review us. It
really helps us if you subscribe and like us on
Apples and Apples, you know the Apples to Apples podcast,

(01:15:24):
And here's a few that we got. Anna, here's one
five stars from a Naughty Kitty to four five loved
the episode more Please is a fan of Will You
Accept This Road Podcast? I was looking forward to this
new project, and I was not disappointed. Loved the first
interview with Joan Jett and the amount of love and
support exhibited exhibited was truly amazing in the interview. Yeah,

(01:15:50):
and I think it's like I think one of the
things I'm proud of is I feel like, you know,
we're all doing the best we can, but we try
to have like love and support with within the podcasts
and hopefully this feels like a safe community. So if
you guys like it at home, please also leave a review.
All right, until next time, my name is Ardin Maraine. Goodbye,