February 10, 2022 • 44 mins
In the very first episode of LADY OF THE ROAD hosts Arden Myrin (Insatiable, Shameless, Will You Accept This Rose? podcast) and Julie Anne Robinson (Award winning director/ EP of Bridgerton) chat with rock legend JOAN JETT about her career, becoming the first women in history to start her own record label (when no label would sign her because she was a woman), how she walks through stage fright and more! She is joined by her longtime friend, collaborator and the President of Joan's record label Blackheart Records - CARIANNE BRINKMAN. At the end a surprise guest pops in - ADJOA ANDOH, who plays Lady Danbury on Bridgerton, and is an enormous fan of punk rock and Joan!
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Let's start. You guys are both recording, Yes, Julia, Yes, Yes,
how do I do that? Rod? I'm hello, that's no
(00:21):
need distress. She's singing She's Lady. Never in my life
did I think I would be playing that song for
our very first guest. Hello, and welcome to Lady of
(00:43):
the Road. My name is Art Marine, coming to you
from my garage in Los Angeles, California, with me my
co host, Britain, director, Britain executive producer, all around superstar
Julianne Robinson. Hello, we are so excited about our first
(01:03):
two guests ever of Lady of the Road. To say
that the first woman that I'm about to introduce is
a true rock icon is an understatement. She is Joan
Jet of Joan Jet and the Black Hearts, one of
the greatest bands in music history. She was a founding
member of the hit all team group The Runaways. This
(01:24):
is something that is thrilling to me because I know
julian and I both really are wowed by people who
build their own boats. She was the first female performer
to start her own record label, black Heart Records. She's
a songwriter, she's a producer, she's a humanitarian and animal
rights activists. Three of her albums have been certified platinum
(01:46):
or gold. She's a feminist icon. She is in the
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Some of her songs
are in the Grammy Hall of Fame. Ladies and gentlemen,
Coming to us from the most beautiful view on the
East Coast, the one and only Miss Joan Jet. Hello, Joan, Hi, guys, Hi, ladies, Hi, everybody,
(02:08):
Welcome to the pod. I want to say, and I
know this is redundant, and I want to add carry
Ann because I'm sure she'd feel the same way. We're
so glad to be your first also joining us to
also be our first close. Let's make it a group effort.
When it's your first disc, go all out? Why not? Everybody? Uh?
Joining us today is a woman who is also a
(02:31):
badass baller in her own right. She is the president
of black Heart Records. She is Jones manager. She was
the visionary behind the incredible, inspiring documentary Bad Reputation about
Joan Jett. If you have not seen it, I watched
it when it first came out. I just rewatched it.
It's a story about perseverance, about never giving up, about
(02:53):
being true to yourself. And it's also the story about
a chosen family. It's not necessarily the family that you're
born in, too, but it's the family who you choose.
And it is so moving. You should run out and
rent it right now and watch it. And if you've
seen it before, you should go watch it again. She
also was an associate producer of the biopic The Runaways,
and she grew up with Joan living in her house
(03:16):
for a lot of her childhood. Ladies and gentlemen, we
are thrilled to have with us Carrie Anne Rickman. Hello, Carrie,
that documentary that you produced. Just rewatching it. You did
such a good job. It's incredible. Thank you, Thank you
so much. Yeah, it was a labor of love. Yeah,
(03:37):
there's a lot of love in it. I watched it
again and I just I loved it all over again,
and I thought a good first question, maybe can you
describe how you guys met. I don't know if you
can remember, carry Anne, but how did you meet? Well?
I was an infant, so I'll have to throw back
to Joan. Joan, how did you meet? Oh? You carry in? Yes,
(04:03):
Well I met her in her crib. She was three
months old, you know, like a pretty new baby. And
at that point in my life, I was twenty one,
and I had not been around a lot of babies,
you know, since I was a teenager, since I had
left my house, I hadn't really been around a lot
of children at all, which was probably good just because
(04:25):
it wasn't a proper environment. But when I moved to
New York, I actually moved into Carrie's house, which is
the house I'm living in now. Her mom and dad
and her lived here, two bedroom place, and uh, that's
how I met her. And I quickly got over my
fear of babies and you know, carry in and I
(04:48):
fell in love. I mean, I was her aunt in
a way, and that's what we've always sort of considered ourselves.
But also a mother, you know, because I have a
completely different not completely different, I don't think, but a
different parenting technique than her parents. Oh, completely different is accurate?
(05:09):
In what way? And what what was the difference? Jones
the one to be scared of. She's she's legit. She's
like the disciplinarian. She does not let you get away
with anything, even with my little kids. So Joan was
more strict than your actual parents pretty much I mean,
my mother was strict. My father was like, you know,
he was on the same level as I was. We
(05:30):
should say that her father is Kenny Laguna, who is
Jones producing partner, lifelong collaborator. Again, if you haven't seen
the documentary, the footage of you and Carrie's father, I mean,
this relationship is I could watch I could winch the
two of you for our It's fascinating, it was charming,
it was there was so much love. I love the bickering.
(05:51):
I loved the taping of the bands. I hate the bickering,
but I you know, I love the relationship and that's
you know, that's just part of the We're like, you know,
we're best friends, but also we have don't have it exactly.
We see eye eye on a lot in life, but
there's also a lot of things I don't see eye
to eye with him on. And it might not be
(06:13):
actual subject matter, but you know, your tone with somebody,
or you know, just having manners. You know, I'm kind
of into that, not to the extreme, but you know
that you've got to treat people well. You know. It's
and I'm not saying that Kenny's not that Kenny is
of the same mind. It's there. You know, there's something
I can't even think of something right now. Well, you're
(06:35):
a rule follower. He's not that kind of thing, Like
you're very state of the rules, and I'm like that too,
but he's not, well, especially when it affects other people.
When it affects other people, you know, you know, I
don't like using myself if I have influence, I don't
like using that necessarily to cut inline front of other people.
(06:55):
You know that really the kind of ship really bothers me.
Do you think that that ethic code issue rubbed off
on you carry in that Jones kind of position in like,
can you remember sometimes that maybe Joane gave you some
advice when you were growing up that you then used
in your later life or even at school. Well, I mean,
I don't even know that it was like a specific thing,
(07:18):
but you know, it's like your parents, you know, it's
like through your parenting. It's just this ethos I don't
want to no, that's exactly it. And it's the example,
and it's probably a lot why I wanted to do
the documentary because that really exemplifies what I got as
a child and even as an adult and it's worth ethic.
(07:41):
Joan has the most intense work ethic you've ever seen.
It's perseverance, it's authenticity and never you know, straying from
who you are as your authentic self, and you have
to live in that or else what's the point? And
I think that's probably the biggest message, which is huge,
(08:02):
And you know, I think that's like even more so
now where we are societally. I think people are women
especially are first coming into that and I think that
wasn't the norm, right, Like I grew up in the eighties,
you know, it was like the norm. And now you know,
look we just have our first woman as vice president. Right,
(08:24):
that's perseverance. I also grew up in the eighties, and
it is true. One of the things is again rewatching
the documentary that I admired so much, was watching Joan
even as a fifteen year old, that she was so
fully formed and even when the world was saying you
can't rock because you're a girl like that, she protected
(08:47):
the core of what her what was true about her
as a human and what was true about her as
an artist. Like just the videos, I was like, she
was fully formed. She was just as badass, but I'm
I'm intrigued. Just to chime in. He had to ask you, Joanes.
Something thing that that came out the documentary was it
said in there that you were shy and that's like
that really fascinates me because I'm shy um and people
(09:11):
don't believe it. I experienced the world that way anyway,
and it's a hard thing to get past it is,
you know, I get anxiety about it. I'm just wondering
how you powered through that, how you so well? That's
an issue, but I'm not gonna let it held me back.
I'm gonna just power through. That's this is for me,
(09:32):
I know, but it's but it's for it's for a
lot of it's for a lot of people. A lot
of people feel this way. You know, a lot of
people and a lot of performers are very shy. Funny enough,
but I don't know that you ever get over it, really,
I I haven't gotten over it. I've gotten better at
managing it and separating why I might be hesitant, you know,
(09:56):
part of it is just I'm good with being alone,
you know. I'm kind of okay with that energy. It
doesn't bother me. A lot of people don't like to
be alone, and so they have to be around people.
So maybe part of it is my conditioning. You know,
I'm just kind of like to hold most of my
cards close to my chest. And I guess where I
(10:16):
first obviously noticed it was in The Runaways when I
had to do anything because I wanted to play guitar
and I wanted to be out there, but I was
too nervous about I guess everything judgment, you know, like, oh,
so many women have judgment. I mean, you know, being
judged the way if you look the right way, if
you pretty and everything. I had a lot of acting
(10:40):
as a teenager, so that made me, you know, shy
as well, because I don't know if shy is the word,
but apprehensive, just because you don't want to be criticized
and look down on or laughed at all that stuff.
So I don't know how I really dealt with it
as a kid before the Runaways. I mean, you know,
I didn't haven't that many instances. I was in drama
(11:00):
class in school, but you know, I was really only
the prop girl. As one of the guys in a
high school reunion recently reminded me, well, the proper girl
made good. Yes, so I say a guy. Of course,
it's like the one way he could put you down.
It's like, okay, buddy, you got me. I'm in the
(11:22):
rock and roll of fame. But yes, I was a
girl you want to start in high school? Yeah, but
the guy it must be. Of course he was the guy.
Do you ever get stage fright? Now? Is not stage fright?
But I think it's important to always be to have
that nervous energy. It's not stage fright. I'm not afraid
of going out there. In fact, the sooner I get
(11:44):
out there, the better I'll feel. It's way. It's that
anticipation of what's to come. See, that's another thing. If
you're shoy, it's just trying to stay in the moment
because your head is always supposing what's gonna happen to you. Yeah,
that's really good. Yeah, and it's all bad, you know.
So I sometimes think also, you know, I'm a perfectionist.
(12:06):
You're a perfectionist. I think that plays into it too. Yeah,
that you don't cut yourself enough slack. You have to
be able to do that, and I know it's it's
much harder for younger women to do that because it
takes practice and you'll always have another chance. So that's
the good thing about it is you do have opportunities
to practice. But part of that is awareness, and it's
(12:29):
easy not to be aware. I mean, I've had trouble
with that my whole life, you know, really just being
aware of the moment. You know that all the special
things that happen, and people don't take time to process it,
and you know, I think it's important to be in
that moment and notice each one for what it is,
whether it makes it feel bad or not. You know,
then try to analyze why you feel bad and then
(12:50):
maybe it's a cycle you cycle out just like you
cycle into it. Carry on? Do you just because you,
you know, stepping into running a record label and there's
not a ton of act truly independent record labels anyway.
Here you are, you're a woman running a record label.
Do you get nervous about things? Is it something like
if you had to harness your inner strength and push through?
(13:11):
Have you taken inspiration from Joan and that? Yes? Of course,
of course, Um I've also probably inherited that perfection from
her right and holding myself to like the highest level
that could possibly be. Well, what your father does too, yeah,
which my father does too, absolutely, And it's you know,
it's a double edged sword because I always say, that's
(13:31):
what drives you, and it's also what tears you down.
So it's it's an interesting it's an interesting line to walk.
But yeah, of course, you know, I think I had
a lot of intimidation early on in my career, and
I let things, you know, intimidate me. And I think
that's also a product of experience, is that you kind
of you keep going, and I just always feel like
(13:53):
I have this force behind me that's just pushing me,
and I just you know, you have to lean into that, right,
What do you mean by that? That's really interesting, sting.
I'm always worried something's pushing me, but maybe in the
wrong direction. I don't know if it's the right direction
or wrong direction. It's just pushing me. It's just like
I kind of yes, yes, exactly. It's like my inner
(14:14):
voice telling me, you know, keep going. And you know,
you have to be really uh grateful for the blessings
and the opportunities you have in your life, and you
can't take them for granted. So sometimes you have to
overcome whatever it is holding you back to one of
the things that just hearing the the origin story of
Black Heart Records to me is so inspiring, like that
(14:36):
it was born out of what could seemingly have been
just the end of the road for somebody. You know,
here's Joan and she already had this huge career and
then it was sort of having a lull and has
written on her own, like some of the most iconic
songs out there. And it was, you know, doing very
well in Europe and led to twenty three record labels,
twenty three record labels and was rejected by twenty three
(15:00):
record labels and some of them said, lose the guitar.
You know, Crimson and Clover, bad reputation, I love rock
and roll? Do you want to touch me? Like these
were all these songs that the movie was saying that
just because it was a woman, nobody would sign her.
And then they like started this record label because nobody
would sign you, and and what a gift. It's like,
(15:21):
all right, assholes, like fine, I'll do it myself. And
then you know that you didn't give up. It's so
inspiring to me to build your own boat. And since
I mean it was lucky nobody signed us, because now
we own all our music because and aren't be holding
to anybody that's such freedom. Yes, it's amazing, But also
(15:41):
I want to I want to mention not only did
did we do something unique in starting a record label
just out of necessity to live selling records out of
the back of the car, Yeah, we started. Nobody did
that before. Yes, you know, people weren't selling anything at
the concert's not even again. They were selling T shirts, right, Garry. Yeah,
(16:02):
they must have been in the seventies and stuff because
there were T shirts. There was no music, you know,
no kind of music. It was very limited merge. It
was like T shirts that's what you can get, you know,
the old days, and not probably not everybody, but I
don't know. But selling music at the gigs was Nobody
did that, you know, and now they do it at
every show. I would think, yeah, okay, that's great. We're
(16:25):
gonna stop right here, We're gonna go to a quick
at break. We're back. I also want to have a
little chat about Light of Day at some point, Joan.
That's something that I watched and so you were amazing
in Oh, thank you for our listeners. Light of Day.
(16:46):
It was a movie that Joe and just said, Cathy
aren't familiar. She started this movie with Michael J. Fox
called Light of Day and she played music in it,
and I believe he played music in it, and Julianne
that's what she's talking about. So here we got, yeah,
going back to the shy this thing, there isn't a
trace of that in that performance. It's completely authentic and
from a very real place. And yeah, so I was
(17:09):
gonna ask you about did you have a fear going
into that movie or did you always feel like, no,
this is something that I'm going to nail. And there
was a lot of talent around that film. Yes there was, Yes,
there was, and I suppose yeah, on the outside, it
looks at a really intimidating situation to go into, but
I'll tell you, I couldn't have been around a nicer
(17:31):
gang of people and more down to earth stars and
general rollins. Jason Miller and Michael I mean, he's amazing.
He's an amazing guy, amazing actor, and was very generous
with me and gave me all sorts of tips, you know,
as opposed to scown with me. You know, he totally
could have screwed with me, not helped me to find
(17:53):
my marks and all little things that you know, you
don't know if you're not an actor, you don't know
the lingo and all that stuff. So he helped me
a lot. Plus I had an amazing acting coach with
me on set. Her name was Sandra Lee and she
she was the original Tinkerbell on Broadway, I guess, and
back way back when. And so yeah, she was a
(18:15):
heavy duty acting coach and I think she worked to
Marlon Brando and just some heavy people, and she was
with me the whole time. And she wasn't intimidated by anybody.
She was a little spitfuyer and uh, the director, yes,
he said he was pretty intense, you know, you know,
and I heard stories and rumors about how he was
(18:37):
going to break me and this and that and really yeah,
but I mean I didn't He was always nice to
me face to face, so I didn't really get what
they meant. And I really, you know, I had my
own cocoon. I was doing my thing. I was rehearsing
my lines. I knew everybody. I knew my lines and
Michael's lines pretty much, so I prepared for that. And
(18:58):
it was a long shoot. It was like ohm a year,
probably eight months in Chicago on a few months in Cleveland,
so it was a long time. So it wasn't like
you had to do everything right away, so I really
lived lived in the park, and that time to really
dig into each scene. So it wasn't like, uh, like,
you know, I guess if you were doing tv OW,
it's much quicker and you don't have time to Did
(19:19):
you enjoy it? I did? I did. You didn't find
it boring because I mean the thrill of life before,
I mean the primal scream of what you do on
the stages. So yes, it's a different thing, which in
a way was great because I didn't have to worry
about being nervous to perform for an audience. But you're
still performing for an audience for all the crew and
(19:39):
cast and everybody's standing around and you know, and you
know you're being judged, because that's the whole point. And
he was also at the height of his fame. I mean,
I remember I had a Michael J. Fox poster on
my wall. I remember carrying Yeah, I mean, he was
teen Wolf and back to the Future. I felt very
cool being around that as the like little kid it
(20:00):
and he got me a birthday present, and I was like,
oh my god, Alex Keaton got me a birthday present
or Alex peaking and you can't go wrong. Oh we
have a doorbell. I think we have a visitor. You
guys of this our podcast, who could that be? Oh
my goodness, you guys joining us in our house of
(20:21):
the Pod, in our house of Lady Cool. We have
legendary British actress Adua and oh who you might know
from the Netflix super Smash Britain and she plays the
iconic role that everybody is talking about, Lady Danbury, ladies
and gentlemen. Adua Ango, Adua, Welcome, Hia Adua. I had
(20:47):
a whole intro organized, as you know, but we would
just talk about acting. Funnily enough, because Joan was in
a movie and she was very, very good in that movie,
so we would just we were just chatting about that.
But I think you should just dive in and start
talking to Joan because you've told me a little bit
about how you feel. So do you want to just
(21:07):
dive in? Yeah? Hey, hey, Joe, how exciting so that
that movie was the movie with Michael J. Fox, Right, Yes, yes, yes,
I'm so. I don't know what to say to you.
I saw The Clash when I was fourteen in nineteen
seventy seven, supported by Richard held the Voidoids and a
French in Bristol. In Bristol nineteen seventy seven, they were
(21:30):
on a tour and I lived in a tiny dairy
village in the middle of the Cartswolds and I was
like alone. Punk out of the Little Black Girl in
the middle of England in the nineteen sixties and seventies,
and punk came along and saved my life. And yet
so I went to see The Clash when I was
fourteen February nineteen seventy seven, and my life was saved.
(21:52):
And that's my whole life. Wow. The idea of women
just being entirely who they are with the gifts that
they have, whatever those gifts may be, all of that
doing it yourself, just sort of not giving about who
wants to limit you and stop your capacity, all of
that stuff. My brother is a musician, my father is
(22:14):
a musician. My grandmother was in a palm court orchestra.
She was a guitar player in the nineties twenties in Ghana,
West Africa. Wow, Yeah, how cool man, that's that's great
to know, but I want to tell you I was
at that same tour. I saw that class tour, but
I believe it was. It was in London, and it
(22:36):
was the first time that I ever you know, I've
been reading about the British kids, and you know I
had that Clash album, the first one, yeah, which they
played they played the whole one at the play the
whole thing. But it's the first time I ever saw
po bowing, which is what they still called it. Then,
you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, so I was I was changed.
(22:56):
I once came from the States like kind of semi
re glam person and came back punk raft out forms. Yeah,
England was awesome. I mean, I don't know how. I
don't know how you're growing up was for you as
a young woman, But there was something about the permission
that punk gave for us as women to be whatever
(23:18):
sort of woman we wanted to be. That has been
like a gift. That's been my whole life and and
maybe that was in our hearts and that's what made
us fall into that aesthetic in the first place. But
it's just like, you know, I will be on my
deathbed and I will still be a punk. Well that's
what I said once a part was upunk. You can't
get away from that no matter. You know, it doesn't
not just dress apart. It's more than dressing apart. I
(23:40):
mean I always said that people when they asked me
about the Runaways, you know, they're always weren't a punk
band per se, but that the idea was completely punk rock.
You know, it was completely punk rock. The aesthetic absolutely
so in that respect we were a punk rock band.
So it depends on how how you define devine those things.
For me, you were a punk band because you were
(24:03):
You were a bunch of women who pushed back against
the whole sort of women have to be like this
and women have to play like this, and you know,
you can only be framed in the in the context
of men. You just went, I like playing the guitar.
I'm going to play the guitar. I want to express
myself and with these people and forget about you if
you if you can't take it. And and the response
(24:23):
I was looking at some of those concerts and the
raptuous response you got from young women as well, who
were just like, oh thank god, thank god, you know
that it to be it thing you Jone completely did
to see it to be a thing for so many
young women. That's great to hear. I mean they tell people,
tell me themselves, and it's just it's so humbling. It's
(24:45):
hard to hear, actually because I feel like it's very
um ego, even though I'm not doing anything. You know,
It's like I'm not saying I'm great, I'm great, but
it's just hard for me to hear because it's so
not me that's doing it in a way, you know
what I mean. I'm just kind of here. I'm a vessel.
I suppose when I hear Adua say that to you, Joan,
it actually makes me feel protective of you. That you
(25:08):
had to do it by yourself, you know what I mean.
There's something that that couldn't have been easy, and it
makes me feel protective. You know that you had to
bust through and and what a gift that was for
everybody else. Yeah, what a gift for everybody else. But
it makes me protective of young Joanes. Yeah. But well,
I mean, I I was lucky. I was able to
find other girls that wanted to be in a band.
(25:28):
Was split that way. I mean, you know, for me,
it was a life mission. I knew it once I
started started this and I got into it seriously. We
started doing press and the first thing the press would
ask is about sex things, you know, And I immediately
right away, as sixen year old one, if I answered
this question, that's all we'll get is sex questions, and
(25:51):
they'll never once ask me about the music. So I
refused to answer that question. I said, listen, you know,
I don't know what I said, but I knows the quotation.
And I kept turning it back to music because you know,
read the lyrics. What you want to know is in
the songs stuff being so fucking lazy and stop looking
to be tilated. Well, exactly what you were saying, aren't
(26:13):
about being protective of young Joe? Yeah? Absolutely, because as
the human being, you're just allowing your heart to do
what your heart wants to do and what your soul
responds to and all the rest of it. The way
of what everybody else takes from it, that's not your business.
Your business is to be true to your heart. But
the example of you being true to your heart is
the blessing that your truths become to everybody else, because
(26:36):
it's not saying be a rock and roll star it's
just like saying, go be true to whatever your thing is,
whether it's pottery or cookery or rocket science, just go
be you. I was just going to say, the amazing
thing is about both of you, and then by implication
you carry an but is that you both are really
committed to the idea of being authentic to your what's
(27:00):
inside you and how you articulate that just what you
just said at you and I'm interested in how both
of you because your life you were born to be
a storyteller. At you a you're born to be a
rock and roller. Joane, how do you know? How do
you just know? Or because I have a big problem,
(27:21):
like I just don't know sometimes what I'm supposed to
be doing and I get lost, and I was like,
I'm I meant to be your mom, Am I meant
to be a direct What am I meant to be? Like?
How do you figure that out? Because that's you both
so singular in that way. Well, I know for sure
I have definitely have an answer for that. I didn't know.
It's just I was doing things I like to do
(27:43):
and it's just the chance of you know, in the
cycle of life. That's what's happened to be what I
was doing at that moment that I had a chance
in my family moved to California, and I'm like, wow,
there might be girls here want to play rock and roll.
So it just was it was where that was in
like growth cycle because earlier, as a younger child, I
(28:04):
wanted to be an astronaut, an archaeologist. I wanted to
be an actor. But I'm very interested in a lot
of things. I could have been a forestry person. You know.
There's just a lot I'm interested in, and a lot
of it doesn't have to do with ego, you know.
So to me, it's a little bit dangerous. You know,
(28:25):
this path that I chose because you have to make
sure that ships in check, you know. Uh. And so
I love the idea of Joan Jett and Space. I
just have to say, I would watch that movie Carrie,
and you can produce it. There's your next movie Space.
You could be like you could be like you know
that you guys can meet as like the villains in Space,
(28:47):
and like, I'm all in. I feel like we could
make lots and lots of money. But I want to
ask you that why does it have to be so binary?
Can't you be a mom and a director and other
things as well? You know, I think, you know, that's
the gift of women too. We can multi task, you know.
(29:07):
I think sometimes to be fully committed though care is
the difficulty to be, you know, because you want to
give your all of yourself. I don't know in my
struggle with it, but I do think the pandemic has
given us a gift of that because everybody's in our homes.
It's like you can be all of it and and
(29:29):
you have you know, I think when I started my
career that was a different thing, and I had to
like pretend my children weren't there and I wasn't a mom,
and I had to put on a different hat. I
don't know. I think being a mother does inform it well.
I just I just know if I had had kids,
and you know myself, that either I would have had
to totally not being a band to there's a big water,
(29:52):
there's the road, or not have kids. You know. You know,
I made that choice long ago. You know, it was
not even I just wasn't here. I knew I wasn't
here to be to have a child come out of me.
But I'm very motherly. Yeah, I love that. And you
guys swept me around the road like a little suit.
So I'm definitely you are my kids. You are my kids.
(30:13):
But you know what I'm saying, and I'm saying I
was here to be fully committed. There's it's like not award.
I don't like using those words, but I had to
be fully committed to being a woman in a man's
world doing what I'm doing. I could not do it halfway. Yeah,
I can't explain what I mean by that. I know
what you mean, but I think it's changing. I hope
(30:35):
it's changing. Do you have one kid? How many children
do you have A I have three. I have three
and my eldest is about to have her own, which
is like wow, No, I'm completely astonished because I had
no interest in children. I don't even know how I mean.
We have you explain? Okay, watch episode six for those
(31:04):
of you who don't know. Ms. Julianne also directed an
executive She was an executive producer on Bridgerta and she
directed the pilot well but the referenced episode. So so
just so people know, to episode six if you want to,
if you want a sexy time, just write episode six,
and that's where our lead character learned all about sex,
and boy does she ever. It is the sexiest thing
(31:27):
that is on television right now. Anyway. So you have
three children, I have to I have three kids, and
a bit like you carry Anne. They were slept on
the road with me. I am. I got my first
equity gig and found out it was pregnant in the
same week now the job, and I had to ring
them back and I was like, Hi, yeah, I love
the job, you just need to know I'm pregnant. But
(31:48):
it was a socialist, feminist touring company who just the
little polls and then they went probably better have a
maternity policy then, and I toured in the van til
I was eight and a half months pregnant. I had
the baby, and a week later I went back to
work with the baby. And you know, Jesse, my eldest,
is a school teacher because she never wanted to go
through any of that ship in her own life again.
(32:09):
But she got shaped all over the world with me.
And I was in my twenties and I had the
energy to do it. But if you speak to my
older kids and my younger kids, I was away on
tour a lot, so you're always kind of in the
wrong place. But the thing that I hope that the
kids have got from me is if you have a
gift for something, and you have heard love for something,
(32:29):
you have to pursue it. You know, my duty is
to model for my kids, be all of who you are.
But it was brilliant to want you hope that your
kids would go for what they were in life. You know. Yeah,
But I don't think the pushback is gone. Last year
I directed the first all women of Carla Shakespeare that's
never been done in the UK. I did that last
(32:51):
year and I edited it. I played Richard. The second
I saw it was amazing. I read about it. I
read about it. To the pushback, I cannot tell you
a pushback. People go, Okay, I want all women of color, musicians, composer, designer, voice, coach, fight, director, everything,
and people like, well, they're just not there. I'm like,
(33:13):
yes they are, I will get them. You have to
pay for them. They're coming, and that no, no, no,
we we can't. We we don't do that sort of
thing what we do now, And the hostility was it's
kind of you kind of go, really, this is one
century what because people still can't quite get their heads
around the entire degree capability that women have to do
(33:37):
whatever it is that they're interested in doing. But doesn't
that make you more committed when when it does resistance?
Okay me to. I edited a film of it. I
put the film out free on YouTube. I was just like,
I want people to know we are here, we did
that and you can do it as well, because they're threatened.
That hits them at some kind of fear level. Yeah.
(33:58):
I don't know what it is, but it's all to
boil down to when you get that kind of resistance,
like what is it? It's not because it's not funny
or whatever you're you're trying to say. Okay, so we're
gonna stop right here and we're going to go to
a quick at break. Okay, we're back. We were just
(34:21):
talking about pushback, and I was saying earlier that it's
sometimes hard to know as a creator which lane to pick.
So that was what was interesting for me, that you
felt like you weren't sure of your zone, because like
watching the Briton Pilot, there was such confidence. It just
wowed me, like that's a woman who knows what she's
doing that's a woman who's in her purpose. It's interesting
(34:42):
to me that there's any doubt about that. And also
you gave voice to you know, women's sexuality for once,
like it's like the woman's perspective, which is all me
and my women friends that have watched it. We really
appreciated that. So I just want to try and say
it was a team effort Bridgeton, It wasn't just me.
(35:03):
But I do feel really strongly that that was something
that I wanted to do with that episode, episode six,
And I'm so glad that people have the reaction that
they have had because they could have had a different reaction.
So but I want to say, it's a privilege to
have you guys talking. And I just knew I thought
(35:25):
you'd get on. So I'm so happy that that that
I was able to bring you guys together. See what
you can do when your mind on it, shimmy for
that all. This is a question for both well for
all of us. Really, there's something in the documentary. I
(35:47):
think it's Iggy Pop that says this. He says, you
have to be willing to go anywhere with this. You
have to be willing to go up to go down.
To go sideways wherever it takes you. You have to
be willing to go. And in terms of the authenticity
of purpose that we were talking about, you know, carry
Anne at your jone, What does that mean to you?
(36:10):
How do you allow yourself to just go with that
ride and not get disheartened. Well, I get disheartened all
the time. But it's my life. It's like this or death.
It's how I feel about it. I have a huge
curiosity and appetite for the world, but this is my gift.
This is the paul ized women. I don't have anything
(36:30):
else to do. I'm not I'm I'm not going to
change and be somebody else or do something else. So
it's like, you know, we're built to be forward motion creatures.
So either I lie down and I give over, or
I go forward. And I have no illusions that you know,
you can blow smoke up my ass today and tomorrow
I can. I can be out of a gig. I
(36:52):
have no illusions about that. But the thing is, you
love what you love and you have to pursue it,
and sometimes you have to pause and go, hang on
a minute, what what are you pursuing? Again? Are you
pursuing being creative, being lost in wonder, have your soul
fly somewhere? Or is it something much more pedestrian, Because
for me, you can do the pedestrian if it takes
(37:14):
you to the soul flight, but if it just keeps
you in the pedestrian, stop it, because that's not what
you're supposed to be doing. So I know that all
sounds a bit easo to it. Soulf Flight was the
most beautiful phrasing I've I've never heard those words together,
and I loved it. Soulflight that that's that's it, Yeah,
because all the rest is just noise. You know, all
(37:35):
the all the oh you're you're marvelous, or this is
this or this is that. It's just it's just noise.
And you know that that Elvis Costello lyrics Yesterday's news
is tomorrow's fish and chip paper, Well, you know that's
that's what it is. Yeah, I mean, you know, the sandemic.
It's really gonna stop. What I think of myself first
(37:57):
and foremost as a touring musician. You know, it's what
I love. Making connection is what it's all about. You know,
that minute, that second when I'm meeting eyes with people
in the audience, and it's our moment and nobody you know,
and it's there forever and it's really important to me
and to have that gone, and uh, it's pretty devastating,
(38:17):
you know, to my heart, to my what I do,
you know, because it's like, oh, you can do this
other work without other work, and it's yeah, yeah, I
can get to it. I'm sure I can. I'll survive.
But it's really tough to not be able to do
what you love, you know, which really feel like you're
here for. That really came through in the documentary Watching You.
(38:37):
I thought it was so beautiful to watch how it
didn't seem to matter what size venue you were playing.
You know, they were saying, whether it's somebody's three sixteen
party at State Fair or like Madison Square Garden, you
go out there and you yeah, the Hollywood Bowl that
you just go rocket like that. That is that is
so great. I loved that. But that does that mean
(38:58):
that everybody else just Forrman through where they're playing. You know,
some people brings it down or yeah, yeah, you know,
I know that people don't all have the same idea
about live performance that I do. You know, it's the
only place a lot of bands can make any money
now because it's sort of been you know, royalties are
(39:18):
non existent. So unless your Taylor Swift or somebody's selling
tons of physical records and getting those kinds of streams,
you know, you can't live. And there's so many musicians definitely,
and crews and you know all that stuff that they're
not working now. I mean big famous rehearsal studios have
been around forever, you know, since thirties gone. You know,
(39:41):
it's it's really heartbreaking. So I don't know, I guess
that's when you say you gotta be willing to go
anywhere with it. Yeah, it's like it's like a I
think of it like a coral reef, you know, if
that was the whole ecosystem. I was thinking about when
the London lockdown happened. I'd been to see a friend's
last performance of their show that night and it was
(40:03):
actually it was a drama school in Central London and
that they shut the theaters that afternoon, so people have
literally been sent home who had come in to do
a show that night. And I walked through you know,
the theater district of Central London and Covent Garden and
it was like you could hear the trumbleweed. It's the
woman that sells the program and shows you to your seat.
(40:23):
Is the guy that's painting the set. It's the taxi
rank around the corner. It's the little coffee shop there.
It's like the ecosystem is so in normal. It's the cleaners,
the dressmakers. And it's really scary because so many of
those jobs. You know, you can't furlough those people. They're
not people aren't attached on the long term employment contract,
they don't have their health insurance, and it's just like
(40:45):
people just fall off a cliff. So on the one level,
it's our esthetic experience of either wanting to be performing
on the stage to those audiences or being those audiences
watching performances, and that you know, there's that side of
the heartbreak, and then there's the other side of the heartbreak.
It is I no longer go clean that theater. Where
am I going to go? It's so fundamental. I agree.
(41:05):
A friend of mine said yesterday something that really really resonated,
which was if you just put in the search bar
of Google how will I pay for and then just
leave the rest empty, you just get just a wave
of information about where the world is right now and
(41:26):
it was this whole period, Like it's a really exposing
time on every single level that you can think about
your life and the world. And I think if we
if you have time to pause and actually reflect on
what's going on, I really hope that we will hold
onto the stuff that we've re remembered, the stuff about
touch and community and poverty. And you know, who are
(41:50):
the people that we really value at the moment. It's
the guy that picks up your garbage. Is that the
person who's caring for your elderly or you'll sit you know,
the will the essential work group you mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
hey them like they're essential? Yes, really, because you know
that's who you want holding your hand in the hospital.
Is that person. It's not going to be the cultural
(42:10):
commentator from blah blah blah blah. You know. I think
what's so moving to me just about today, I will say,
just the collective humanity here and just the connection. And
I think what our listeners will really appreciate is just
all of you coming together and giving us your time,
and you know that everybody's doing the best that they can,
(42:30):
and we really appreciate you all showing up so authentically
and you know, it's a tough time out there. And
also like these strong women who who we can all
look to as like Joan got knocked down twenty three
times and she came back and I truly believe that.
But I think for all of us like that, there
is a collective spirit out there in the world that
(42:51):
will go towards the light. And um, I know, Julianne,
I think I speak for both of us. This has
been truly an honor. Oh my god, Yeah, I have
to introduce you to someone. Joe. This is my son.
He wants to say Hi. Hi. He wanted to say hi,
and now he's got shiny Julianne, are you thrilled about
our first podcast? I am. This is amazing. Thank you
(43:15):
so much. Well, it's been my pleasure for sure. Your
heart's all shine through like your We all knew your
talent just as fans, but your heart's all shine through
on this and I consider it an honor. And I'm
going to consider you all my friends. No, cool man,
I consider you my friend. Thank you, Rachel Fall and
(43:36):
my I'm gonna be rooting for all of you on earth.
And uh, thank you for your time, and I just
adore all of you. Thank you so much for being
our thank you our first and lady of the road
with the whole podcast thing. Thank you so much. Thank
you guys, You're amazing and carry on Brinkman all right,
(44:00):
so much love to you all, and we'll be back
next time and we're going to chat with Adua and
uh you guys. Thanks for listening. Hi, bye bye, guys.
I'm not hanging up yet.
Let's start. You guys are both recording, Yes, Julia, Yes, Yes,
how do I do that? Rod? I'm hello, that's no
(00:21):
need distress. She's singing She's Lady. Never in my life
did I think I would be playing that song for
our very first guest. Hello, and welcome to Lady of
(00:43):
the Road. My name is Art Marine, coming to you
from my garage in Los Angeles, California, with me my
co host, Britain, director, Britain executive producer, all around superstar
Julianne Robinson. Hello, we are so excited about our first
(01:03):
two guests ever of Lady of the Road. To say
that the first woman that I'm about to introduce is
a true rock icon is an understatement. She is Joan
Jet of Joan Jet and the Black Hearts, one of
the greatest bands in music history. She was a founding
member of the hit all team group The Runaways. This
(01:24):
is something that is thrilling to me because I know
julian and I both really are wowed by people who
build their own boats. She was the first female performer
to start her own record label, black Heart Records. She's
a songwriter, she's a producer, she's a humanitarian and animal
rights activists. Three of her albums have been certified platinum
(01:46):
or gold. She's a feminist icon. She is in the
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Some of her songs
are in the Grammy Hall of Fame. Ladies and gentlemen,
Coming to us from the most beautiful view on the
East Coast, the one and only Miss Joan Jet. Hello, Joan, Hi, guys, Hi, ladies, Hi, everybody,
(02:08):
Welcome to the pod. I want to say, and I
know this is redundant, and I want to add carry
Ann because I'm sure she'd feel the same way. We're
so glad to be your first also joining us to
also be our first close. Let's make it a group effort.
When it's your first disc, go all out? Why not? Everybody? Uh?
Joining us today is a woman who is also a
(02:31):
badass baller in her own right. She is the president
of black Heart Records. She is Jones manager. She was
the visionary behind the incredible, inspiring documentary Bad Reputation about
Joan Jett. If you have not seen it, I watched
it when it first came out. I just rewatched it.
It's a story about perseverance, about never giving up, about
(02:53):
being true to yourself. And it's also the story about
a chosen family. It's not necessarily the family that you're
born in, too, but it's the family who you choose.
And it is so moving. You should run out and
rent it right now and watch it. And if you've
seen it before, you should go watch it again. She
also was an associate producer of the biopic The Runaways,
and she grew up with Joan living in her house
(03:16):
for a lot of her childhood. Ladies and gentlemen, we
are thrilled to have with us Carrie Anne Rickman. Hello, Carrie,
that documentary that you produced. Just rewatching it. You did
such a good job. It's incredible. Thank you, Thank you
so much. Yeah, it was a labor of love. Yeah,
(03:37):
there's a lot of love in it. I watched it
again and I just I loved it all over again,
and I thought a good first question, maybe can you
describe how you guys met. I don't know if you
can remember, carry Anne, but how did you meet? Well?
I was an infant, so I'll have to throw back
to Joan. Joan, how did you meet? Oh? You carry in? Yes,
(04:03):
Well I met her in her crib. She was three
months old, you know, like a pretty new baby. And
at that point in my life, I was twenty one,
and I had not been around a lot of babies,
you know, since I was a teenager, since I had
left my house, I hadn't really been around a lot
of children at all, which was probably good just because
(04:25):
it wasn't a proper environment. But when I moved to
New York, I actually moved into Carrie's house, which is
the house I'm living in now. Her mom and dad
and her lived here, two bedroom place, and uh, that's
how I met her. And I quickly got over my
fear of babies and you know, carry in and I
(04:48):
fell in love. I mean, I was her aunt in
a way, and that's what we've always sort of considered ourselves.
But also a mother, you know, because I have a
completely different not completely different, I don't think, but a
different parenting technique than her parents. Oh, completely different is accurate?
(05:09):
In what way? And what what was the difference? Jones
the one to be scared of. She's she's legit. She's
like the disciplinarian. She does not let you get away
with anything, even with my little kids. So Joan was
more strict than your actual parents pretty much I mean,
my mother was strict. My father was like, you know,
he was on the same level as I was. We
(05:30):
should say that her father is Kenny Laguna, who is
Jones producing partner, lifelong collaborator. Again, if you haven't seen
the documentary, the footage of you and Carrie's father, I mean,
this relationship is I could watch I could winch the
two of you for our It's fascinating, it was charming,
it was there was so much love. I love the bickering.
(05:51):
I loved the taping of the bands. I hate the bickering,
but I you know, I love the relationship and that's
you know, that's just part of the We're like, you know,
we're best friends, but also we have don't have it exactly.
We see eye eye on a lot in life, but
there's also a lot of things I don't see eye
to eye with him on. And it might not be
(06:13):
actual subject matter, but you know, your tone with somebody,
or you know, just having manners. You know, I'm kind
of into that, not to the extreme, but you know
that you've got to treat people well. You know. It's
and I'm not saying that Kenny's not that Kenny is
of the same mind. It's there. You know, there's something
I can't even think of something right now. Well, you're
(06:35):
a rule follower. He's not that kind of thing, Like
you're very state of the rules, and I'm like that too,
but he's not, well, especially when it affects other people.
When it affects other people, you know, you know, I
don't like using myself if I have influence, I don't
like using that necessarily to cut inline front of other people.
(06:55):
You know that really the kind of ship really bothers me.
Do you think that that ethic code issue rubbed off
on you carry in that Jones kind of position in like,
can you remember sometimes that maybe Joane gave you some
advice when you were growing up that you then used
in your later life or even at school. Well, I mean,
I don't even know that it was like a specific thing,
(07:18):
but you know, it's like your parents, you know, it's
like through your parenting. It's just this ethos I don't
want to no, that's exactly it. And it's the example,
and it's probably a lot why I wanted to do
the documentary because that really exemplifies what I got as
a child and even as an adult and it's worth ethic.
(07:41):
Joan has the most intense work ethic you've ever seen.
It's perseverance, it's authenticity and never you know, straying from
who you are as your authentic self, and you have
to live in that or else what's the point? And
I think that's probably the biggest message, which is huge,
(08:02):
And you know, I think that's like even more so
now where we are societally. I think people are women
especially are first coming into that and I think that
wasn't the norm, right, Like I grew up in the eighties,
you know, it was like the norm. And now you know,
look we just have our first woman as vice president. Right,
(08:24):
that's perseverance. I also grew up in the eighties, and
it is true. One of the things is again rewatching
the documentary that I admired so much, was watching Joan
even as a fifteen year old, that she was so
fully formed and even when the world was saying you
can't rock because you're a girl like that, she protected
(08:47):
the core of what her what was true about her
as a human and what was true about her as
an artist. Like just the videos, I was like, she
was fully formed. She was just as badass, but I'm
I'm intrigued. Just to chime in. He had to ask you, Joanes.
Something thing that that came out the documentary was it
said in there that you were shy and that's like
that really fascinates me because I'm shy um and people
(09:11):
don't believe it. I experienced the world that way anyway,
and it's a hard thing to get past it is,
you know, I get anxiety about it. I'm just wondering
how you powered through that, how you so well? That's
an issue, but I'm not gonna let it held me back.
I'm gonna just power through. That's this is for me,
(09:32):
I know, but it's but it's for it's for a
lot of it's for a lot of people. A lot
of people feel this way. You know, a lot of
people and a lot of performers are very shy. Funny enough,
but I don't know that you ever get over it, really,
I I haven't gotten over it. I've gotten better at
managing it and separating why I might be hesitant, you know,
(09:56):
part of it is just I'm good with being alone,
you know. I'm kind of okay with that energy. It
doesn't bother me. A lot of people don't like to
be alone, and so they have to be around people.
So maybe part of it is my conditioning. You know,
I'm just kind of like to hold most of my
cards close to my chest. And I guess where I
(10:16):
first obviously noticed it was in The Runaways when I
had to do anything because I wanted to play guitar
and I wanted to be out there, but I was
too nervous about I guess everything judgment, you know, like, oh,
so many women have judgment. I mean, you know, being
judged the way if you look the right way, if
you pretty and everything. I had a lot of acting
(10:40):
as a teenager, so that made me, you know, shy
as well, because I don't know if shy is the word,
but apprehensive, just because you don't want to be criticized
and look down on or laughed at all that stuff.
So I don't know how I really dealt with it
as a kid before the Runaways. I mean, you know,
I didn't haven't that many instances. I was in drama
(11:00):
class in school, but you know, I was really only
the prop girl. As one of the guys in a
high school reunion recently reminded me, well, the proper girl
made good. Yes, so I say a guy. Of course,
it's like the one way he could put you down.
It's like, okay, buddy, you got me. I'm in the
(11:22):
rock and roll of fame. But yes, I was a
girl you want to start in high school? Yeah, but
the guy it must be. Of course he was the guy.
Do you ever get stage fright? Now? Is not stage fright?
But I think it's important to always be to have
that nervous energy. It's not stage fright. I'm not afraid
of going out there. In fact, the sooner I get
(11:44):
out there, the better I'll feel. It's way. It's that
anticipation of what's to come. See, that's another thing. If
you're shoy, it's just trying to stay in the moment
because your head is always supposing what's gonna happen to you. Yeah,
that's really good. Yeah, and it's all bad, you know.
So I sometimes think also, you know, I'm a perfectionist.
(12:06):
You're a perfectionist. I think that plays into it too. Yeah,
that you don't cut yourself enough slack. You have to
be able to do that, and I know it's it's
much harder for younger women to do that because it
takes practice and you'll always have another chance. So that's
the good thing about it is you do have opportunities
to practice. But part of that is awareness, and it's
(12:29):
easy not to be aware. I mean, I've had trouble
with that my whole life, you know, really just being
aware of the moment. You know that all the special
things that happen, and people don't take time to process it,
and you know, I think it's important to be in
that moment and notice each one for what it is,
whether it makes it feel bad or not. You know,
then try to analyze why you feel bad and then
(12:50):
maybe it's a cycle you cycle out just like you
cycle into it. Carry on? Do you just because you,
you know, stepping into running a record label and there's
not a ton of act truly independent record labels anyway.
Here you are, you're a woman running a record label.
Do you get nervous about things? Is it something like
if you had to harness your inner strength and push through?
(13:11):
Have you taken inspiration from Joan and that? Yes? Of course,
of course, Um I've also probably inherited that perfection from
her right and holding myself to like the highest level
that could possibly be. Well, what your father does too, yeah,
which my father does too, absolutely, And it's you know,
it's a double edged sword because I always say, that's
(13:31):
what drives you, and it's also what tears you down.
So it's it's an interesting it's an interesting line to walk.
But yeah, of course, you know, I think I had
a lot of intimidation early on in my career, and
I let things, you know, intimidate me. And I think
that's also a product of experience, is that you kind
of you keep going, and I just always feel like
(13:53):
I have this force behind me that's just pushing me,
and I just you know, you have to lean into that, right,
What do you mean by that? That's really interesting, sting.
I'm always worried something's pushing me, but maybe in the
wrong direction. I don't know if it's the right direction
or wrong direction. It's just pushing me. It's just like
I kind of yes, yes, exactly. It's like my inner
(14:14):
voice telling me, you know, keep going. And you know,
you have to be really uh grateful for the blessings
and the opportunities you have in your life, and you
can't take them for granted. So sometimes you have to
overcome whatever it is holding you back to one of
the things that just hearing the the origin story of
Black Heart Records to me is so inspiring, like that
(14:36):
it was born out of what could seemingly have been
just the end of the road for somebody. You know,
here's Joan and she already had this huge career and
then it was sort of having a lull and has
written on her own, like some of the most iconic
songs out there. And it was, you know, doing very
well in Europe and led to twenty three record labels,
twenty three record labels and was rejected by twenty three
(15:00):
record labels and some of them said, lose the guitar.
You know, Crimson and Clover, bad reputation, I love rock
and roll? Do you want to touch me? Like these
were all these songs that the movie was saying that
just because it was a woman, nobody would sign her.
And then they like started this record label because nobody
would sign you, and and what a gift. It's like,
(15:21):
all right, assholes, like fine, I'll do it myself. And
then you know that you didn't give up. It's so
inspiring to me to build your own boat. And since
I mean it was lucky nobody signed us, because now
we own all our music because and aren't be holding
to anybody that's such freedom. Yes, it's amazing, But also
(15:41):
I want to I want to mention not only did
did we do something unique in starting a record label
just out of necessity to live selling records out of
the back of the car, Yeah, we started. Nobody did
that before. Yes, you know, people weren't selling anything at
the concert's not even again. They were selling T shirts, right, Garry. Yeah,
(16:02):
they must have been in the seventies and stuff because
there were T shirts. There was no music, you know,
no kind of music. It was very limited merge. It
was like T shirts that's what you can get, you know,
the old days, and not probably not everybody, but I
don't know. But selling music at the gigs was Nobody
did that, you know, and now they do it at
every show. I would think, yeah, okay, that's great. We're
(16:25):
gonna stop right here, We're gonna go to a quick
at break. We're back. I also want to have a
little chat about Light of Day at some point, Joan.
That's something that I watched and so you were amazing
in Oh, thank you for our listeners. Light of Day.
(16:46):
It was a movie that Joe and just said, Cathy
aren't familiar. She started this movie with Michael J. Fox
called Light of Day and she played music in it,
and I believe he played music in it, and Julianne
that's what she's talking about. So here we got, yeah,
going back to the shy this thing, there isn't a
trace of that in that performance. It's completely authentic and
from a very real place. And yeah, so I was
(17:09):
gonna ask you about did you have a fear going
into that movie or did you always feel like, no,
this is something that I'm going to nail. And there
was a lot of talent around that film. Yes there was, Yes,
there was, and I suppose yeah, on the outside, it
looks at a really intimidating situation to go into, but
I'll tell you, I couldn't have been around a nicer
(17:31):
gang of people and more down to earth stars and
general rollins. Jason Miller and Michael I mean, he's amazing.
He's an amazing guy, amazing actor, and was very generous
with me and gave me all sorts of tips, you know,
as opposed to scown with me. You know, he totally
could have screwed with me, not helped me to find
(17:53):
my marks and all little things that you know, you
don't know if you're not an actor, you don't know
the lingo and all that stuff. So he helped me
a lot. Plus I had an amazing acting coach with
me on set. Her name was Sandra Lee and she
she was the original Tinkerbell on Broadway, I guess, and
back way back when. And so yeah, she was a
(18:15):
heavy duty acting coach and I think she worked to
Marlon Brando and just some heavy people, and she was
with me the whole time. And she wasn't intimidated by anybody.
She was a little spitfuyer and uh, the director, yes,
he said he was pretty intense, you know, you know,
and I heard stories and rumors about how he was
(18:37):
going to break me and this and that and really yeah,
but I mean I didn't He was always nice to
me face to face, so I didn't really get what
they meant. And I really, you know, I had my
own cocoon. I was doing my thing. I was rehearsing
my lines. I knew everybody. I knew my lines and
Michael's lines pretty much, so I prepared for that. And
(18:58):
it was a long shoot. It was like ohm a year,
probably eight months in Chicago on a few months in Cleveland,
so it was a long time. So it wasn't like
you had to do everything right away, so I really
lived lived in the park, and that time to really
dig into each scene. So it wasn't like, uh, like,
you know, I guess if you were doing tv OW,
it's much quicker and you don't have time to Did
(19:19):
you enjoy it? I did? I did. You didn't find
it boring because I mean the thrill of life before,
I mean the primal scream of what you do on
the stages. So yes, it's a different thing, which in
a way was great because I didn't have to worry
about being nervous to perform for an audience. But you're
still performing for an audience for all the crew and
(19:39):
cast and everybody's standing around and you know, and you
know you're being judged, because that's the whole point. And
he was also at the height of his fame. I mean,
I remember I had a Michael J. Fox poster on
my wall. I remember carrying Yeah, I mean, he was
teen Wolf and back to the Future. I felt very
cool being around that as the like little kid it
(20:00):
and he got me a birthday present, and I was like,
oh my god, Alex Keaton got me a birthday present
or Alex peaking and you can't go wrong. Oh we
have a doorbell. I think we have a visitor. You
guys of this our podcast, who could that be? Oh
my goodness, you guys joining us in our house of
(20:21):
the Pod, in our house of Lady Cool. We have
legendary British actress Adua and oh who you might know
from the Netflix super Smash Britain and she plays the
iconic role that everybody is talking about, Lady Danbury, ladies
and gentlemen. Adua Ango, Adua, Welcome, Hia Adua. I had
(20:47):
a whole intro organized, as you know, but we would
just talk about acting. Funnily enough, because Joan was in
a movie and she was very, very good in that movie,
so we would just we were just chatting about that.
But I think you should just dive in and start
talking to Joan because you've told me a little bit
about how you feel. So do you want to just
(21:07):
dive in? Yeah? Hey, hey, Joe, how exciting so that
that movie was the movie with Michael J. Fox, Right, Yes, yes, yes,
I'm so. I don't know what to say to you.
I saw The Clash when I was fourteen in nineteen
seventy seven, supported by Richard held the Voidoids and a
French in Bristol. In Bristol nineteen seventy seven, they were
(21:30):
on a tour and I lived in a tiny dairy
village in the middle of the Cartswolds and I was
like alone. Punk out of the Little Black Girl in
the middle of England in the nineteen sixties and seventies,
and punk came along and saved my life. And yet
so I went to see The Clash when I was
fourteen February nineteen seventy seven, and my life was saved.
(21:52):
And that's my whole life. Wow. The idea of women
just being entirely who they are with the gifts that
they have, whatever those gifts may be, all of that
doing it yourself, just sort of not giving about who
wants to limit you and stop your capacity, all of
that stuff. My brother is a musician, my father is
(22:14):
a musician. My grandmother was in a palm court orchestra.
She was a guitar player in the nineties twenties in Ghana,
West Africa. Wow, Yeah, how cool man, that's that's great
to know, but I want to tell you I was
at that same tour. I saw that class tour, but
I believe it was. It was in London, and it
(22:36):
was the first time that I ever you know, I've
been reading about the British kids, and you know I
had that Clash album, the first one, yeah, which they
played they played the whole one at the play the
whole thing. But it's the first time I ever saw
po bowing, which is what they still called it. Then,
you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, so I was I was changed.
(22:56):
I once came from the States like kind of semi
re glam person and came back punk raft out forms. Yeah,
England was awesome. I mean, I don't know how. I
don't know how you're growing up was for you as
a young woman, But there was something about the permission
that punk gave for us as women to be whatever
(23:18):
sort of woman we wanted to be. That has been
like a gift. That's been my whole life and and
maybe that was in our hearts and that's what made
us fall into that aesthetic in the first place. But
it's just like, you know, I will be on my
deathbed and I will still be a punk. Well that's
what I said once a part was upunk. You can't
get away from that no matter. You know, it doesn't
not just dress apart. It's more than dressing apart. I
(23:40):
mean I always said that people when they asked me
about the Runaways, you know, they're always weren't a punk
band per se, but that the idea was completely punk rock.
You know, it was completely punk rock. The aesthetic absolutely
so in that respect we were a punk rock band.
So it depends on how how you define devine those things.
For me, you were a punk band because you were
(24:03):
You were a bunch of women who pushed back against
the whole sort of women have to be like this
and women have to play like this, and you know,
you can only be framed in the in the context
of men. You just went, I like playing the guitar.
I'm going to play the guitar. I want to express
myself and with these people and forget about you if
you if you can't take it. And and the response
(24:23):
I was looking at some of those concerts and the
raptuous response you got from young women as well, who
were just like, oh thank god, thank god, you know
that it to be it thing you Jone completely did
to see it to be a thing for so many
young women. That's great to hear. I mean they tell people,
tell me themselves, and it's just it's so humbling. It's
(24:45):
hard to hear, actually because I feel like it's very
um ego, even though I'm not doing anything. You know,
It's like I'm not saying I'm great, I'm great, but
it's just hard for me to hear because it's so
not me that's doing it in a way, you know
what I mean. I'm just kind of here. I'm a vessel.
I suppose when I hear Adua say that to you, Joan,
it actually makes me feel protective of you. That you
(25:08):
had to do it by yourself, you know what I mean.
There's something that that couldn't have been easy, and it
makes me feel protective. You know that you had to
bust through and and what a gift that was for
everybody else. Yeah, what a gift for everybody else. But
it makes me protective of young Joanes. Yeah. But well,
I mean, I I was lucky. I was able to
find other girls that wanted to be in a band.
(25:28):
Was split that way. I mean, you know, for me,
it was a life mission. I knew it once I
started started this and I got into it seriously. We
started doing press and the first thing the press would
ask is about sex things, you know, And I immediately
right away, as sixen year old one, if I answered
this question, that's all we'll get is sex questions, and
(25:51):
they'll never once ask me about the music. So I
refused to answer that question. I said, listen, you know,
I don't know what I said, but I knows the quotation.
And I kept turning it back to music because you know,
read the lyrics. What you want to know is in
the songs stuff being so fucking lazy and stop looking
to be tilated. Well, exactly what you were saying, aren't
(26:13):
about being protective of young Joe? Yeah? Absolutely, because as
the human being, you're just allowing your heart to do
what your heart wants to do and what your soul
responds to and all the rest of it. The way
of what everybody else takes from it, that's not your business.
Your business is to be true to your heart. But
the example of you being true to your heart is
the blessing that your truths become to everybody else, because
(26:36):
it's not saying be a rock and roll star it's
just like saying, go be true to whatever your thing is,
whether it's pottery or cookery or rocket science, just go
be you. I was just going to say, the amazing
thing is about both of you, and then by implication
you carry an but is that you both are really
committed to the idea of being authentic to your what's
(27:00):
inside you and how you articulate that just what you
just said at you and I'm interested in how both
of you because your life you were born to be
a storyteller. At you a you're born to be a
rock and roller. Joane, how do you know? How do
you just know? Or because I have a big problem,
(27:21):
like I just don't know sometimes what I'm supposed to
be doing and I get lost, and I was like,
I'm I meant to be your mom, Am I meant
to be a direct What am I meant to be? Like?
How do you figure that out? Because that's you both
so singular in that way. Well, I know for sure
I have definitely have an answer for that. I didn't know.
It's just I was doing things I like to do
(27:43):
and it's just the chance of you know, in the
cycle of life. That's what's happened to be what I
was doing at that moment that I had a chance
in my family moved to California, and I'm like, wow,
there might be girls here want to play rock and roll.
So it just was it was where that was in
like growth cycle because earlier, as a younger child, I
(28:04):
wanted to be an astronaut, an archaeologist. I wanted to
be an actor. But I'm very interested in a lot
of things. I could have been a forestry person. You know.
There's just a lot I'm interested in, and a lot
of it doesn't have to do with ego, you know.
So to me, it's a little bit dangerous. You know,
(28:25):
this path that I chose because you have to make
sure that ships in check, you know. Uh. And so
I love the idea of Joan Jett and Space. I
just have to say, I would watch that movie Carrie,
and you can produce it. There's your next movie Space.
You could be like you could be like you know
that you guys can meet as like the villains in Space,
(28:47):
and like, I'm all in. I feel like we could
make lots and lots of money. But I want to
ask you that why does it have to be so binary?
Can't you be a mom and a director and other
things as well? You know, I think, you know, that's
the gift of women too. We can multi task, you know.
(29:07):
I think sometimes to be fully committed though care is
the difficulty to be, you know, because you want to
give your all of yourself. I don't know in my
struggle with it, but I do think the pandemic has
given us a gift of that because everybody's in our homes.
It's like you can be all of it and and
(29:29):
you have you know, I think when I started my
career that was a different thing, and I had to
like pretend my children weren't there and I wasn't a mom,
and I had to put on a different hat. I
don't know. I think being a mother does inform it well.
I just I just know if I had had kids,
and you know myself, that either I would have had
to totally not being a band to there's a big water,
(29:52):
there's the road, or not have kids. You know. You know,
I made that choice long ago. You know, it was
not even I just wasn't here. I knew I wasn't
here to be to have a child come out of me.
But I'm very motherly. Yeah, I love that. And you
guys swept me around the road like a little suit.
So I'm definitely you are my kids. You are my kids.
(30:13):
But you know what I'm saying, and I'm saying I
was here to be fully committed. There's it's like not award.
I don't like using those words, but I had to
be fully committed to being a woman in a man's
world doing what I'm doing. I could not do it halfway. Yeah,
I can't explain what I mean by that. I know
what you mean, but I think it's changing. I hope
(30:35):
it's changing. Do you have one kid? How many children
do you have A I have three. I have three
and my eldest is about to have her own, which
is like wow, No, I'm completely astonished because I had
no interest in children. I don't even know how I mean.
We have you explain? Okay, watch episode six for those
(31:04):
of you who don't know. Ms. Julianne also directed an
executive She was an executive producer on Bridgerta and she
directed the pilot well but the referenced episode. So so
just so people know, to episode six if you want to,
if you want a sexy time, just write episode six,
and that's where our lead character learned all about sex,
and boy does she ever. It is the sexiest thing
(31:27):
that is on television right now. Anyway. So you have
three children, I have to I have three kids, and
a bit like you carry Anne. They were slept on
the road with me. I am. I got my first
equity gig and found out it was pregnant in the
same week now the job, and I had to ring
them back and I was like, Hi, yeah, I love
the job, you just need to know I'm pregnant. But
(31:48):
it was a socialist, feminist touring company who just the
little polls and then they went probably better have a
maternity policy then, and I toured in the van til
I was eight and a half months pregnant. I had
the baby, and a week later I went back to
work with the baby. And you know, Jesse, my eldest,
is a school teacher because she never wanted to go
through any of that ship in her own life again.
(32:09):
But she got shaped all over the world with me.
And I was in my twenties and I had the
energy to do it. But if you speak to my
older kids and my younger kids, I was away on
tour a lot, so you're always kind of in the
wrong place. But the thing that I hope that the
kids have got from me is if you have a
gift for something, and you have heard love for something,
(32:29):
you have to pursue it. You know, my duty is
to model for my kids, be all of who you are.
But it was brilliant to want you hope that your
kids would go for what they were in life. You know. Yeah,
But I don't think the pushback is gone. Last year
I directed the first all women of Carla Shakespeare that's
never been done in the UK. I did that last
(32:51):
year and I edited it. I played Richard. The second
I saw it was amazing. I read about it. I
read about it. To the pushback, I cannot tell you
a pushback. People go, Okay, I want all women of color, musicians, composer, designer, voice, coach, fight, director, everything,
and people like, well, they're just not there. I'm like,
(33:13):
yes they are, I will get them. You have to
pay for them. They're coming, and that no, no, no,
we we can't. We we don't do that sort of
thing what we do now, And the hostility was it's
kind of you kind of go, really, this is one
century what because people still can't quite get their heads
around the entire degree capability that women have to do
(33:37):
whatever it is that they're interested in doing. But doesn't
that make you more committed when when it does resistance?
Okay me to. I edited a film of it. I
put the film out free on YouTube. I was just like,
I want people to know we are here, we did
that and you can do it as well, because they're threatened.
That hits them at some kind of fear level. Yeah.
(33:58):
I don't know what it is, but it's all to
boil down to when you get that kind of resistance,
like what is it? It's not because it's not funny
or whatever you're you're trying to say. Okay, so we're
gonna stop right here and we're going to go to
a quick at break. Okay, we're back. We were just
(34:21):
talking about pushback, and I was saying earlier that it's
sometimes hard to know as a creator which lane to pick.
So that was what was interesting for me, that you
felt like you weren't sure of your zone, because like
watching the Briton Pilot, there was such confidence. It just
wowed me, like that's a woman who knows what she's
doing that's a woman who's in her purpose. It's interesting
(34:42):
to me that there's any doubt about that. And also
you gave voice to you know, women's sexuality for once,
like it's like the woman's perspective, which is all me
and my women friends that have watched it. We really
appreciated that. So I just want to try and say
it was a team effort Bridgeton, It wasn't just me.
(35:03):
But I do feel really strongly that that was something
that I wanted to do with that episode, episode six,
And I'm so glad that people have the reaction that
they have had because they could have had a different reaction.
So but I want to say, it's a privilege to
have you guys talking. And I just knew I thought
(35:25):
you'd get on. So I'm so happy that that that
I was able to bring you guys together. See what
you can do when your mind on it, shimmy for
that all. This is a question for both well for
all of us. Really, there's something in the documentary. I
(35:47):
think it's Iggy Pop that says this. He says, you
have to be willing to go anywhere with this. You
have to be willing to go up to go down.
To go sideways wherever it takes you. You have to
be willing to go. And in terms of the authenticity
of purpose that we were talking about, you know, carry
Anne at your jone, What does that mean to you?
(36:10):
How do you allow yourself to just go with that
ride and not get disheartened. Well, I get disheartened all
the time. But it's my life. It's like this or death.
It's how I feel about it. I have a huge
curiosity and appetite for the world, but this is my gift.
This is the paul ized women. I don't have anything
(36:30):
else to do. I'm not I'm I'm not going to
change and be somebody else or do something else. So
it's like, you know, we're built to be forward motion creatures.
So either I lie down and I give over, or
I go forward. And I have no illusions that you know,
you can blow smoke up my ass today and tomorrow
I can. I can be out of a gig. I
(36:52):
have no illusions about that. But the thing is, you
love what you love and you have to pursue it,
and sometimes you have to pause and go, hang on
a minute, what what are you pursuing? Again? Are you
pursuing being creative, being lost in wonder, have your soul
fly somewhere? Or is it something much more pedestrian, Because
for me, you can do the pedestrian if it takes
(37:14):
you to the soul flight, but if it just keeps
you in the pedestrian, stop it, because that's not what
you're supposed to be doing. So I know that all
sounds a bit easo to it. Soulf Flight was the
most beautiful phrasing I've I've never heard those words together,
and I loved it. Soulflight that that's that's it, Yeah,
because all the rest is just noise. You know, all
(37:35):
the all the oh you're you're marvelous, or this is
this or this is that. It's just it's just noise.
And you know that that Elvis Costello lyrics Yesterday's news
is tomorrow's fish and chip paper, Well, you know that's
that's what it is. Yeah, I mean, you know, the sandemic.
It's really gonna stop. What I think of myself first
(37:57):
and foremost as a touring musician. You know, it's what
I love. Making connection is what it's all about. You know,
that minute, that second when I'm meeting eyes with people
in the audience, and it's our moment and nobody you know,
and it's there forever and it's really important to me
and to have that gone, and uh, it's pretty devastating,
(38:17):
you know, to my heart, to my what I do,
you know, because it's like, oh, you can do this
other work without other work, and it's yeah, yeah, I
can get to it. I'm sure I can. I'll survive.
But it's really tough to not be able to do
what you love, you know, which really feel like you're
here for. That really came through in the documentary Watching You.
(38:37):
I thought it was so beautiful to watch how it
didn't seem to matter what size venue you were playing.
You know, they were saying, whether it's somebody's three sixteen
party at State Fair or like Madison Square Garden, you
go out there and you yeah, the Hollywood Bowl that
you just go rocket like that. That is that is
so great. I loved that. But that does that mean
(38:58):
that everybody else just Forrman through where they're playing. You know,
some people brings it down or yeah, yeah, you know,
I know that people don't all have the same idea
about live performance that I do. You know, it's the
only place a lot of bands can make any money
now because it's sort of been you know, royalties are
(39:18):
non existent. So unless your Taylor Swift or somebody's selling
tons of physical records and getting those kinds of streams,
you know, you can't live. And there's so many musicians definitely,
and crews and you know all that stuff that they're
not working now. I mean big famous rehearsal studios have
been around forever, you know, since thirties gone. You know,
(39:41):
it's it's really heartbreaking. So I don't know, I guess
that's when you say you gotta be willing to go
anywhere with it. Yeah, it's like it's like a I
think of it like a coral reef, you know, if
that was the whole ecosystem. I was thinking about when
the London lockdown happened. I'd been to see a friend's
last performance of their show that night and it was
(40:03):
actually it was a drama school in Central London and
that they shut the theaters that afternoon, so people have
literally been sent home who had come in to do
a show that night. And I walked through you know,
the theater district of Central London and Covent Garden and
it was like you could hear the trumbleweed. It's the
woman that sells the program and shows you to your seat.
(40:23):
Is the guy that's painting the set. It's the taxi
rank around the corner. It's the little coffee shop there.
It's like the ecosystem is so in normal. It's the cleaners,
the dressmakers. And it's really scary because so many of
those jobs. You know, you can't furlough those people. They're
not people aren't attached on the long term employment contract,
they don't have their health insurance, and it's just like
(40:45):
people just fall off a cliff. So on the one level,
it's our esthetic experience of either wanting to be performing
on the stage to those audiences or being those audiences
watching performances, and that you know, there's that side of
the heartbreak, and then there's the other side of the heartbreak.
It is I no longer go clean that theater. Where
am I going to go? It's so fundamental. I agree.
(41:05):
A friend of mine said yesterday something that really really resonated,
which was if you just put in the search bar
of Google how will I pay for and then just
leave the rest empty, you just get just a wave
of information about where the world is right now and
(41:26):
it was this whole period, Like it's a really exposing
time on every single level that you can think about
your life and the world. And I think if we
if you have time to pause and actually reflect on
what's going on, I really hope that we will hold
onto the stuff that we've re remembered, the stuff about
touch and community and poverty. And you know, who are
(41:50):
the people that we really value at the moment. It's
the guy that picks up your garbage. Is that the
person who's caring for your elderly or you'll sit you know,
the will the essential work group you mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
hey them like they're essential? Yes, really, because you know
that's who you want holding your hand in the hospital.
Is that person. It's not going to be the cultural
(42:10):
commentator from blah blah blah blah. You know. I think
what's so moving to me just about today, I will say,
just the collective humanity here and just the connection. And
I think what our listeners will really appreciate is just
all of you coming together and giving us your time,
and you know that everybody's doing the best that they can,
(42:30):
and we really appreciate you all showing up so authentically
and you know, it's a tough time out there. And
also like these strong women who who we can all
look to as like Joan got knocked down twenty three
times and she came back and I truly believe that.
But I think for all of us like that, there
is a collective spirit out there in the world that
(42:51):
will go towards the light. And um, I know, Julianne,
I think I speak for both of us. This has
been truly an honor. Oh my god, Yeah, I have
to introduce you to someone. Joe. This is my son.
He wants to say Hi. Hi. He wanted to say hi,
and now he's got shiny Julianne, are you thrilled about
our first podcast? I am. This is amazing. Thank you
(43:15):
so much. Well, it's been my pleasure for sure. Your
heart's all shine through like your We all knew your
talent just as fans, but your heart's all shine through
on this and I consider it an honor. And I'm
going to consider you all my friends. No, cool man,
I consider you my friend. Thank you, Rachel Fall and
(43:36):
my I'm gonna be rooting for all of you on earth.
And uh, thank you for your time, and I just
adore all of you. Thank you so much for being
our thank you our first and lady of the road
with the whole podcast thing. Thank you so much. Thank
you guys, You're amazing and carry on Brinkman all right,
(44:00):
so much love to you all, and we'll be back
next time and we're going to chat with Adua and
uh you guys. Thanks for listening. Hi, bye bye, guys.
I'm not hanging up yet.
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