"For The Night" (w/ Charli XCX)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Look mare, oh, I see you my own mind. Look
over there is that culture.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Yes, goodness, Lost.

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Culture ding dong. Lost culture is calling. We're off to
the races here today we eat some pret British culture.
British culture. More to com I will say, I'm a
little upset about how much almond milk is in this.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Okay, if the cameras are picking this up listeners at home,
we can't see this. This is Duncan Donuts level chicanery.
It's pure. It's milk with a little bit of ice coffee.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
I was going to use the word chicanery too for
the record, And I just want to say I wouldn't
even want to walk down the street and people think
that I have to coffee like this. Like if this
is just more almond milk than anything, I can I
get an amen up.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
And here, in the words of RuPaul.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
This is just that.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
There's also like a weird, pallid color to it. It
doesn't have what I would call a healthy looking color.
And you guys all feel me out there. You want coffee,
not milk, Thank you, Becca. It looks like chocolate milk.
I was gonna say, next quick Rabbit, random month, lest
I checked. I wasn't eight years old in my basement
where I would drink Chopol milk on the regular. What's

(01:07):
your merch story, Matt, just with like an artist that
you love. My merch story.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
I'm wearing merch, Yeah, scaring merchant. But Bowen is in
Charlie Merchant. By the way, it's very cute merch, which
I say is a comment to you the wearer and
you the seller. My merch story is I'm also currently
wearing merch for driving. This is Focus Features. Send us
this merch and I said, that's cute and I will
wear it on the thing. I didn't know they were
going to do this. They said it to us, And

(01:33):
after seeing the movie Challengers, I thought threesome cultures sort
of in I do think that the threesome of MMF
of MMF threesome.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
And so I'm just sort of encouraging that.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
Yeah, here on the podcast, I hope you received who
knows what happens today during the episode, I don't think
it will be an MMF threesome, but.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
We've got MMF here.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
Now.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
I would you say that like if between between let's
say like MMF two dicks one vas, let's just go
in with that parameter. Yeah, I might get so like
Dick confused that I'm like, yeah, of course there's a
vagina in the mix.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
Listen all I know, it's not shocked. You can't think
about it too hard. I think when it comes to
three simes, you have to just take it moment by moment. Yeah,
I've had two in my life. Uh huh, and getting
out of my way was important.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
No, I've had three.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
So the first one I was very in my own
way the entire time, and I was like, I am
doing this with more than one person, and.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
It's a little bit of a brain teaser. And then
the second you just let that go and you have
a wonderful time. You know what happened to me the
first time? What I was facing forward, facing someone great,
true North, and it was true and then jump scare
behind me, literally like oh, like I want someone to
stick it in. They didn't stick it in. They just

(02:51):
kind of kind of nestled behind me, and I was like, oh,
I forgot.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
The crazy thing is when you're facing true North and
sort of giving that a one where you're a giving partner,
and then all of a sudden you feel the third
kind of really come through the back and you're like,
I'm not in that zone right now.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
I need to know.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
So let's just all communicate and take a moment by
moment everyone, And that's sort of our creative challengers.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
If you want a little educational video. But again, you
never see any three sex challengers. You don't see any
penetration anyway.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
What's penetrated me is the new album.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
It's a really penetrative album.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
Emotionally penetrative, obviously sonically and physically penetrative in the best way,
in a way that I invite.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
And I'm open wide for angels. If you're listening, this
might be offensive to the guests if you mourn XDX
world the way that some of us out here do.
This album is gonna give you everything you want and more.
You're about to party about We're about to party, but
you're also about to feel. And this is what I
love about our guest and like it's just so sort

(03:53):
of singular and iconic. Is like what I love is like,
you know, like emotional pop music, and you always get
our our guests perspective of her POV. It's always interesting
and specific no matter what it is. I was telling Bowen,
like when we were just at Prada Mange. But we
have all of our good conversations. I'm a huge fan
of our guest ballads. You're a ballad like.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
I'm a ballad girl, and like you give that And
I'm just so excited. The new album, Bratt is coming
out June seventh and seventh. She's doing the Brat Tour
and then she's going to the Sweat Tour with the
Choice and yeah, so she's doing Brat, Sweat, Brat. Why
are you laughing?

Speaker 3 (04:29):
It's just so funny that I'm just sign you're I'm like,
I'm not.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
Don't two three tries?

Speaker 4 (04:38):
Yes, that was so fun to you guys gab away.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
The same thing about what you gab and saying about
on your records. We're having fun too, Oh good. You
are the most fun. You do truly intrinsically understand how
to make us have fun.

Speaker 4 (04:57):
That's so nice.

Speaker 2 (04:59):
We're having fun on the way. You've get a big day,
big day recording this. We're gonna release it closer to
the album release. But you're going on SETH with Troy. Yeah,
and then watch it happens life also with Troy. Are
you on with a housewife.

Speaker 1 (05:09):
Do you know.

Speaker 4 (05:10):
No, I'm so sad about that you're just on solo. No,
it's another man.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
I couldn't tell you who it is exactly, and I
love that we will find out later who it is.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
When the episode I'll be like, oh, that's true, and I'll.

Speaker 4 (05:23):
Be like it's I love.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
Vineyards, I love exactly.

Speaker 4 (05:30):
No, I don't know.

Speaker 5 (05:31):
I think his name is Joe Joe, And honestly, he's
gonna ask you to be I'm going to really burn
it out.

Speaker 2 (05:42):
Yeah, we were talking here about last time you were
you were on you were not as versed in the
Bravo verse, and now you are all in one exactly so,
and you asked us a really important question, which would
you want to ask us again? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (05:56):
My question for you both is are you pro Monica
or the Auntie Monica I'm tie.

Speaker 2 (06:03):
Sorry, no, no, no, that's okay. We and the way
we answered was Auntie Monica, Auntie, We're Auntie Monica. We
we were don't make fun of our guests, no, I say,
I say Auntie as well. We were, so what my
answer was in the beginning when it all went down,
we were very anti we were like, get her off
like like none of the women want to film with her,

(06:26):
like she is not allowed anywhere near them. And then
now that they announced that she is no longer there,
we're like, oh, it's gonna miss something.

Speaker 4 (06:33):
The travesty.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
My thing is like I just want to watch a
show where everyone speaks to each other, because it gets
boring when you have a cast that's like, I'm not
talking to her. You'll see when like once you branch
out to other franchises, it's like when a cast is
like not operating as a group, it's bad. And they
were also scorched earth with Monica at the end, like

(06:54):
unwilling to speak to her. Can you give thoughts on
Mary Cosby from your Charlie perspective?

Speaker 2 (07:00):
I mean, this woman is just She's on the album,
she's gonna be on.

Speaker 4 (07:05):
The full remix record.

Speaker 2 (07:07):
Is just her.

Speaker 3 (07:09):
She is. I mean, I don't even know where you begin.
It's like I love her and I hate her.

Speaker 2 (07:16):
Do you love her in your hare? No, that's totally fair.

Speaker 3 (07:19):
My friend saw her at Sounds her tower, oh wow,
and apparently she was really rude to her. She was
like my friend was like, oh can I sit here
at the bar, and she was like no, and then
my friend was like, do you have someone coming? And
she was like yeah, and then obviously no one came
and it was just for her bag.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (07:40):
And then at the same time, I'm like, that's married
legend in bread comment.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
Yeah, I was gonna say, and then she called your
friend in brad yeah yeah yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:50):
But the inbred comment followed up with Heather asking her
did you really call me inbred? And she goes, I did, yeah,
you dumb bitch, I did I do?

Speaker 2 (08:02):
I do?

Speaker 1 (08:03):
And then when they like went through it at the
reunion to it was so bizarre because there was kind
of just like threw up her hands and was like, listen,
I respect that she said it.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
She speaks her truth.

Speaker 1 (08:11):
It's like, can't you please sist? Do we all agree?

Speaker 2 (08:16):
Though they talked to her like she's five years old,
either she's a mental patient, which she might be, and
like she's a fy're afraid of her.

Speaker 4 (08:24):
They're afraid. I mean she gets a lot of free passes.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
Yeah, you know, because.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
Well that was funny.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
When she was on Wadro Thatppans Live, like, they asked
her a question like why'd you come back and she
fully just goes to help you guys out. I mean yeah,
because you want to know why there's like not a
thirsty bone in her body or like a bothered bone nobody,
because you can tell she doesn't really get it right.
So she's just like gonna show up and say whatever

(08:52):
the fuck it is. The rumor is now that she
called Lisa Barlow's youngest son the R word. That is
the rumor that's happening for next season.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
Thoughts on that, I.

Speaker 3 (09:03):
See, I see, I see, I can imagine it happening.

Speaker 4 (09:08):
Yeah, I imagine it happening.

Speaker 3 (09:09):
I'm fascinated by her wardrobe, yes, and the choices.

Speaker 2 (09:14):
And the choices, many colors, many.

Speaker 3 (09:15):
It's actually got dressed in the dark five times in
a run, and then she just went out with all
of it.

Speaker 1 (09:20):
And isn't it funny that she's like the fashion she's
the fashion guy.

Speaker 4 (09:25):
I mean.

Speaker 3 (09:25):
The thing is, she's gonna come for us. So are
you ready? Like she hears this, She's coming for us.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
I wandered she cares. I don't think she cares what
we think.

Speaker 4 (09:33):
Yeah, maybe maybe.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
Feud for you though, Mary m Cosby.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
That's that's why no one would ever.

Speaker 4 (09:42):
See it would be so good. It would be so good.
I'm pro Monica.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
That's great.

Speaker 4 (09:50):
I just want to pivot back to that.

Speaker 2 (09:52):
I'm pro Monica and you said to us, you know,
what she did wasn't really that bad, and we agree
that it would be like if Troy ran a patrol
account for like an anti Charlie Troy, like, everyone leave
after my set.

Speaker 3 (10:03):
But but was she Okay, here's the thing. I'm pretty
like Flag in the Sand on like, I'm Promnica, but
I haven't actually done much research into reality vontee, so
I'm basing that on nothing. But I've heard from friends
who I trust dearly that she wasn't really like talking

(10:26):
shit about the women.

Speaker 2 (10:28):
So she was it was really more of a and.

Speaker 3 (10:31):
Obviously that was her narrative on the show, which I
was a little bit like, but you know, God love her.
But I was like, surely she's using that a little bit.
But my reliable friends say that that was the case,
that she wasn't really talking about the women.

Speaker 2 (10:46):
I believe you're reliable friends.

Speaker 3 (10:48):
So then I'm just like, also, I'm like, guys, you're
on Housewife.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
I know what it was?

Speaker 1 (10:53):
She black, She ran out of steam when it came
to defending herself and explo like I felt like she
sort of like threw up the white flag as it were.
When it was go time, it was like, okay, this
is the reunion, explain what it was and what exonerates
you about this, and it felt like she kind of

(11:15):
just took it because she got confused and started to
lean into the villain narrative, right, thinking that's what people
would want, when it was like, no, what you want
is to stay on the show and they won't film.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
With you unless you can explain you get them on board.
And then I think she was like gearing up to
bring out that burn book prop like she was like
prop was rough and a half.

Speaker 4 (11:34):
The bum book didn't mean that all went a bit
a ride.

Speaker 2 (11:39):
So, yeah, you got you gotta Mean Girls track on
your album.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
I love this song thank you because it really is
for that girl thank you, and for days that are
trying to be that girl that day. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:50):
You know what's interesting about that song is I'm going
to tell you off to have mom non't okay?

Speaker 4 (11:56):
Excellent.

Speaker 3 (11:57):
So the thing is about the Mean Girl's song on
my album is that it's kind of like.

Speaker 2 (12:06):
A fascination with women like that in the culture.

Speaker 3 (12:08):
Yeah, oh you know what, I was actually totally in
my brain talking about a different song.

Speaker 4 (12:15):
No, I know, I remember talking about mean girls. Yep.

Speaker 3 (12:17):
Sorry, No, that really is just about like being a
bit yeah, which we love.

Speaker 1 (12:24):
What song were you thinking of?

Speaker 4 (12:25):
Sorry?

Speaker 3 (12:26):
I was thinking, sorry, I was thinking about where we
feel so confusing.

Speaker 1 (12:30):
Questions about this and okay, you don't wonder.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
I think you've already and look, we're not entitled to
any information. Okay, who's just about No, I, Miriam Cosby.

Speaker 4 (12:45):
Totally no, you know, I haven't. This is early, like.

Speaker 3 (12:48):
This is the first time I've spoken about the song.
You guys are the first people to ask me. So
I haven't quite decided whether I'm revealing. When I wrote it,
I was like, I'm revealing, But now you know, now
the time is here, I'm like, do you think I
should reveal?

Speaker 4 (13:04):
I think not for your benefits, just in general.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
I think that whatever it is going to I feel
like at some point, yeah, in thirty years, My thing.

Speaker 4 (13:13):
Is people are going to guess.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:16):
I probably both have an accurate guess, and I'm not
going to ask you to say it out loud because
you'll tell why my face. Yeah, yeah, but after that person, Yeah,
well you know what hate Yeah.

Speaker 4 (13:28):
Like say it with your eyes.

Speaker 1 (13:32):
I think it's yeah, okay, okay, now I think I have.

Speaker 3 (13:40):
So the thing is, it's like I think we live
in this like world of pop music right now, where
like women are like I support.

Speaker 4 (13:46):
Other women, I love women.

Speaker 3 (13:48):
I'm a feminist and that's great, like love that, But
there's artifice to its, absolutely absolutely, And I don't think
that you become a bad feminist if you maybe don't
see eye to eye with everything. That's just like not
the nature of human beings. You know, there is a
competitiveness between us. There is envy, there is camaraderie, there

(14:10):
is you know, all of these different like dynamics, and
I mean I feel that working in entertainment, there is
this kind of dance that we all do with each other,
whether you're in music.

Speaker 4 (14:25):
Whether in your you're in your world, Like.

Speaker 3 (14:27):
No matter how you identify, there is this dance that
everybody's everybody's watching each other.

Speaker 4 (14:33):
Everybody's like posing in the picture, like hey this is
he and my collaborator and good friends.

Speaker 3 (14:39):
Yeah, but then you're also like I want what they have,
and then the next day you're like they suck I
killed it today, and this happens, but no one really
is like willing to discuss it. But we've we all
probably have our person, yes, or maybe a few different people,
and I'm sure we are that person for other people.
And I just find that there is this like strange,

(15:02):
like unspoken thing that often happens, particularly with women, because
there is such a narrative of pitting women against each
other within music, and sometimes that's not totally like fabricated.

Speaker 4 (15:15):
Do you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (15:16):
Sometimes there is like what's the phrase smoke where the
smoke far Like I do feel like that sometimes does happen,
And sometimes.

Speaker 4 (15:25):
It's like I don't know, everybody's just doing this little like.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
Square Darnce totally well, like this idea of like, oh,
women are pitted against each other. That shouldn't make you
feel any worse or more complicated about the fact that,
like it happens. It's not Why is it this red
line all of a sudden you're not supposed to get
into any other conflict with any other.

Speaker 3 (15:43):
Yeah, it's unrealistic. It's unrealistic.

Speaker 1 (15:46):
And you're not saying fuck her, You're saying it's confusing.
When I feel like we got a lot of people
saying that we do great stuff together. It feels like
the vibe is good, and then I'm confused. It's like,
am I okay with who the art audience might fill
in this spot? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (16:02):
Well that's the other thing about it.

Speaker 3 (16:03):
It's like, for me, this is like my favorite part
of the high artness of music and the low artness
of like pop star.

Speaker 4 (16:18):
Like I like the marriage of the two, and I
like that.

Speaker 3 (16:20):
Maybe people were getting it wrong, but they're like having
fun playing the game because I think that that brings
like kind of this three dimensional world two songs.

Speaker 4 (16:31):
You know, outside of just like the song's really good.

Speaker 3 (16:33):
It's like it's nice to plant like theories and ideas
and let people like live their kind of Paris Lindsay
fantasy with it.

Speaker 4 (16:43):
So it's fun.

Speaker 3 (16:44):
But I also think it does this thing of like
with the whole record, I'm kind of like doing that
in ways. It's like holding a mirror to this kind
of culture that we're in right now, where everybody is
really I feel like everybody is like their moral compass
has to be so in check all the time, right,
But it's like sometimes it's just like fun of it's

(17:05):
not and everybody the listeners, like your moral compass isn't
always like bang on.

Speaker 4 (17:12):
Like everybody's a little fucked. Everybody's like little like shady.

Speaker 3 (17:16):
Everybody has like thoughts of all these different things, Like
everyone's kind of a bitch sometimes and that's okay, Like
it doesn't make you a bad person.

Speaker 4 (17:26):
It makes you a flawed human being person.

Speaker 1 (17:29):
And we want artists to put that into work too,
because like I mean, I can't stand the morality thing
as it applies, Like.

Speaker 2 (17:36):
But when did pop stars and let's just include in
lump in like actors and shit, like when did they
become like moral haragons because like actually from my mom,
like in the seventies, there would be signs up that
said no actors. It's like we were like like we
like they were like the rowdy, fucking, like chaotic people
and that's what everyone understood them to be. And it's
like these are not good people. Keep them out, you

(17:56):
know what I mean? And like maybe that's okay.

Speaker 3 (17:59):
Yeah, I won so, Like it's interesting this celebrity culture,
especially over the past like ten maybe fifteen years, has
really like changed a lot in that I think niceness
became a commodity whereas before niceness wasn't cool, right, you know,
it wasn't like cool to be nice. Yeah, and then

(18:20):
like suddenly it really was. It was like, oh well,
if you're not nice, like you're dead, you know. But
it actually just used to be like really cool to
be like county and a bitch. And I feel like
we're slowly edging back there. But I still think we're
in our nice year. I still feel like we're in
our life. Everybody has to be so nice all the time,
and that's like cool if you're like really actually just

(18:42):
like chill and nice.

Speaker 4 (18:44):
But sometimes I'm like I see through.

Speaker 1 (18:46):
Through it, and we all do. I think everything is
too sensitive now that actually who you are, like you
know what I mean. Like the media, it's like if
people are watching, they're watching so closely so that you
can't really get away with like putting on a persona anymore.
It's like really different from where you are because we
see so much of it and we're inundated in the
discourse and et cetera.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
That like we're ahead of the game that you're.

Speaker 4 (19:10):
Playing, right, and you're playing like really well.

Speaker 2 (19:12):
Yeah, really good team to cover shit up. But I
feel like and I mean this on such a complimentary level.
You I feel like you've stuck to your countiness the
whole the whole way through.

Speaker 4 (19:23):
Thank you. Yeah, well, I appreciate that. It's funny.

Speaker 3 (19:25):
It's like, I think I can be bitchy. I don't
know that I'm.

Speaker 1 (19:32):
A bitch, right, That is a big distinction.

Speaker 3 (19:35):
You know, like I'm never going to be horrible to someone. Yeah,
for the sake of it, because it's actually I personally
find it a lot harder to be like deliberately like
emotionally dismissive or mean or whatever, you know what I mean. Like,
And don't get me wrong, I'm sure I have my
bad days. Like I'm not saying I'm a saint, but.

Speaker 4 (19:54):
I'll also just like tell it how it is.

Speaker 3 (19:56):
And I think that gets misconstrued as being mean, but
it's actually just I'm just being real because I don't
think that it's that interesting to have this sort of
like facade of like twist yourself not and what would

(20:19):
really you're all gonna die and I'm just like just
like have fun.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
I mean, I think this album is kind of like
on this front line where a lot of a lot
of artists are doing this now where it is like transparency,
I'm bringing the fourth wall, Like you're singing about a
G and Sophie and like like for the first time,
probably right little way, and like you're being very real
about ships, like you're singing I don't want to spoil
the rest of the album, but like you were singing
about things that like are very surprising, and I'm like, oh,

(20:46):
I didn't think she would be she would have a
song about what I think. I think about it all
the time. Yeah, yes, yeah, I remember, because what analogy.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
It goes into the last track, and I love the
two together because it's such a psych out like it's
like you're talking about like really weighing things in your
in the way where you are in life, like now
is the time when I should maybe really think about
a family, if that's what I want, Like is it
okay with you that I think about this? Like yeah,
this occupies a lot of space. And then the next
song is keys, Yeah, and I was like, and I

(21:25):
was like, is this her answering it or is this
her having fun?

Speaker 2 (21:28):
Or is it both?

Speaker 3 (21:29):
Like it's it's not the answer, because I definitely I
don't think I have an answer.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
Yeah, if you have baby fever do cocaine? Is what
you're saying.

Speaker 3 (21:38):
Old brand Dale's gone, that's cool, But no, I don't
have an answer, But I think it's an interesting question
to muse over because I mean, do you guys have
many friends who have kids?

Speaker 1 (21:52):
Our female friends are really starting. I mean, like even
in the past six to eight months, like four or
five of my friends I've had their Yeah, like one
of my third kid wow yeah, wow, Wow is this
your friend?

Speaker 3 (22:06):
I don't have loads of friends who have kids, yeah,
but I had kind of one, like major friend in
my life who's a songwriter who had a baby. She
was kind of the inspiration for this song because I
went to her house to visit her in Stockholm with
her partner. They've been together for years, but they never
really were like we're having kids. It just kind of

(22:27):
happened for them, you know. And then it was just
so crazy going over to their apartment writing songs with them.
She's wearing the same clothes she always wore, the apartments
the same, they're exactly the same.

Speaker 4 (22:38):
We're writing songs, but.

Speaker 3 (22:40):
It's just like everything is different because she has the
key to this door that like, I'm not even in
the same room as yet do you know what I like?

Speaker 2 (22:50):
It's almost like they now know something you don't know.

Speaker 1 (22:52):
And it's that wanting that like is driving the question
in you exactly really interesting.

Speaker 3 (22:57):
Exactly and it's like you don't not to say that
you can't you know, get the same sort of level
of person. I'm not saying that, but I just I think,
particularly like with her, for me, I was just like, wow,
like we used to be so similar, and now your worldview,
even though you're saying all the same things and you're

(23:17):
the same person, you're also just like completely different because
you have this new perspective that I can't even really
begin to understand.

Speaker 4 (23:24):
Yeah, you know, and it's just strange.

Speaker 2 (23:27):
But does it not give you some comfort that like
she she is wearing the same clothes, nothing about her.

Speaker 3 (23:32):
Absolutely no, No, it's totally comforting. But then it's at
the same time it's just like, I mean missing out,
like and I think for me, it drives me to
this place of like, do I want kids? Will I
feel this new lease of life and this whole new

(23:53):
world open up if I have kids? Will I feel
resentment towards the kid? Will I seamlessly be able to
do both thing, Yeah, exactly the way that I want
to know, Probably not unless I like kind of disregard.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
The kid, like you want to do an amazing job
at both, And so I would also if I were
in that position. I don't I'll ever have children, but
if I were, really, if it was something that was
on my mind, I would worry that it would like harm.

Speaker 2 (24:21):
My passion and like what I know I'm supposed.

Speaker 1 (24:23):
To do, you know what I mean, Like, is it
going to change the way that I relate to myself
as like this person who like in your cases, out
there creating and like being this like pop idol And
then I don't know, like it would it would change
a lot, Like you don't know that you're going to
be exactly like your friend wearing the same ship talking
about the same ship. For some people it really changes time.

Speaker 2 (24:48):
But I feel like you have already been through a
situation where everything was taken from you in some sense
with lockdown, Like your response to that was like I'm
feeling now. I feel like like in a big life
change situation like that, you already kind of I'm not
saying what happened exactly that way, but you already know
that like your response would be to like keep making true.

Speaker 4 (25:10):
Yeah, that's pretty interesting. I never thought of it like that.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
Yeah, connecting dots. Last time I saw you was at
SNL and at the Good Nights You were like what's
going on after? And I was like, there's a horse
meat disco?

Speaker 1 (25:31):
And then I almost did you go?

Speaker 2 (25:33):
I went after you didn't miss much? That was that
we love horse meat, you know.

Speaker 3 (25:36):
I mean you know this because you do it. But
it's it's a lot of it, it's a lot of energy.
It's late.

Speaker 2 (25:43):
Is it's late, but like the boiler room set looks
fucking that's late.

Speaker 4 (25:49):
But it's I mean, this is like, because when do
you end one?

Speaker 1 (25:53):
One?

Speaker 4 (25:53):
And then and then you go to the funny Mexican restaurant?

Speaker 2 (25:57):
Where was it Rose in Mexico?

Speaker 1 (25:59):
Mexico?

Speaker 4 (26:00):
What is okay?

Speaker 2 (26:02):
We rotate, We rotate restaurants.

Speaker 4 (26:04):
Why isn't it okay the same place? Why isn't it
just a better place?

Speaker 2 (26:08):
You know what? You really roll the dice and you can't.

Speaker 1 (26:12):
But like sometimes I'm like, where are were going? And
it's either a fuck yes or a calm on?

Speaker 4 (26:17):
But has it it has been a yeah? And they
would I went Rose Mexicans.

Speaker 2 (26:24):
Mexicano was oscar Isaac.

Speaker 4 (26:27):
And I mean I had fun, but I had fun.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
You had a margarita, but it was funny and you
described it as a funny restaurant, and it is a
very funny restaurant. It's hilarious. And we love Rose Mexicanos
so much. We love them, we love them, but we
want a table tonight. Randel's gone. My brand deal with
was Mexicanos gone. But I like Charlie famous, but.

Speaker 4 (26:47):
Surely it's not a budget thing.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
It kind of like it's getting all the slash. I know,
budget you need to come back when the party is
at loving you at Sacks, It's it's chic, there's there's
room to walk around. But Harley famously was the musical
guest during the Omicron episode.

Speaker 1 (27:02):
Where everyone was fun right, well.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
Can I say can I reveal? Like on the monitors
on Thursday, like all the writers were fucking screaming because
it was like, oh my god, it's like Caroline politics here,
Christine's here, they're doing new shapes and then like we
the world missed out on like the three of you
being on the same stage on TV.

Speaker 4 (27:19):
Doing it was that was crazy.

Speaker 2 (27:22):
Gradually.

Speaker 4 (27:23):
That was crazy.

Speaker 3 (27:24):
Also because yeah, I guess we never did that performance
that was we had.

Speaker 4 (27:28):
We were on a did you see a sound check?

Speaker 3 (27:30):
We're on a spinning platform, so cool and like I
love Caroline and Christine, but my gosh, that it was crazy,
like because guys go crazy on it. It was like
Caroline wanted the platform to spin one way, one speed,
Christine wanted to spin.

Speaker 4 (27:45):
The other way. I was like, I don't care what
platform COVID. It was just like so stressful. Yea, it
was just like a lot. And then we finally figured out.

Speaker 3 (27:56):
We were so feeling so good about it, were like
dancing on the platform.

Speaker 4 (27:59):
And falling over.

Speaker 3 (28:00):
We like we fucking killed it. And then we're literally
we were in like we were getting ready like and
then on that Saturday, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I was
in gum and then Caroline was like, it's not happening.

Speaker 4 (28:13):
I was like, what do you mean You're not coming
and she was like no, it's like it's.

Speaker 2 (28:15):
They pulled the plug on it.

Speaker 1 (28:16):
Yeah, that happened entirely.

Speaker 4 (28:20):
Well not my meatball sketch, thank god.

Speaker 2 (28:23):
Played a meatball. But that was that was show was it?
That was That was the second show. That was the
time you came back.

Speaker 3 (28:28):
Oh, I got a chicken, chicken, I was. I did
some pre take sketch you were you were you were
a chicken.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
To repair it, you were a parrot. You were a parrot.

Speaker 3 (28:37):
Yeah, and I was kind of like, oh, well, at
least I kept that.

Speaker 4 (28:43):
It was like me and me and Paul.

Speaker 1 (28:45):
It was Paul.

Speaker 2 (28:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:48):
Wow, that's a good one though, to play chicken with Paul.
That's so SNL called it.

Speaker 4 (28:52):
Yeah, it was.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
It's like I went on the sketch comedy. Yeah, I was, Ah,
I was chicken in the meatball.

Speaker 1 (28:58):
But then you were.

Speaker 2 (28:59):
But then this can show you did baby, and then
what did you did?

Speaker 4 (29:01):
Beg for you?

Speaker 2 (29:04):
Yeah? Oh my god. Rena wasn't there.

Speaker 4 (29:05):
For Rena was not there.

Speaker 2 (29:06):
But speaking of Santas holds a very special place in
my heart because that was where I was when Crash
came out, the whole album, and I like, it was
just me in a room listening to that whole album.
Went to the Tory were fantastic, and I still say
that that is the most well behaved audience because it's
these lovely boys and girls just jump up and down.

(29:27):
No one's like throwing elbows in the pit, you know
what I mean, everyone like watches their and the sod.

Speaker 4 (29:34):
They're polite. The angels are polite.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
But with this, do you want them to get a
little a little bit more came.

Speaker 3 (29:40):
I always want them to get chaotic, like whenever they
You know, I'm lucky because whenever I bump into like
a mass group of angels, they're very like sweet, you know,
they like wait in line and they like have the
lids off their sharpie like organized.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
Oh my god, I love it. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (29:59):
It's never like like a ship show.

Speaker 2 (30:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (30:01):
Yeah, Like I saw this TikTok of Paris.

Speaker 3 (30:05):
Hilton had done like a signing, yeah, and it had
got a little hectic and someone had like drawn on
her like chanel.

Speaker 4 (30:10):
Bag, and I was just like that. I mean, I'm.

Speaker 1 (30:16):
Sure there's like not in your class.

Speaker 3 (30:17):
There's lots more where it came from, but that is
really like, that's such a bummer.

Speaker 4 (30:22):
That would never happen with the angel.

Speaker 2 (30:24):
Not on your blue.

Speaker 3 (30:28):
Bana in it always I always travel. I brought a
banana here, left it on the plane.

Speaker 2 (30:32):
You did you have my favorite? What's my bag? Because
you have the banana, you have the line and you
have the barrito. Is it the true emotion? No? No, no, No,
that's that's no. What is it? I just mixed emotion.
You and I have the same fragrance.

Speaker 4 (30:46):
Yeah, I'm wearing lat too Leap today. It's a new
I haven't done it before, a.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
Thing like I've switched and it's just like, what are
you on? I am on Delos dose from by Radio.

Speaker 4 (31:01):
Okay, I have that.

Speaker 2 (31:02):
I will say.

Speaker 1 (31:03):
Bow and Yang really tried to get me into Sunday
cologne and that was not for me.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
It's called as well. It's called Sunday.

Speaker 3 (31:11):
Yes, Sunday something rainy Sunday. No, that's much I think
about Sunday. It's just called Sunday Sunday.

Speaker 2 (31:20):
I found Santos and I actually was wearing It.

Speaker 1 (31:23):
Had its debut at Coachella on me, and I felt
very good by the way. You didn't You didn't say me,
but I saw you.

Speaker 2 (31:29):
Last year that went off.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
People were getting people were getting fun, roudy, it was fun.

Speaker 4 (31:33):
How was Coachella this year?

Speaker 1 (31:35):
I tell this was fucking great. But makes an appearance
in the Mean Girls song.

Speaker 3 (31:39):
Yes she does because because hot girls listen.

Speaker 1 (31:42):
To me, girls listen to true It's true.

Speaker 3 (31:46):
I feel like any cool, like genuinely cool girl not
only like likes Solanad, but like understands like the law
like Lana.

Speaker 4 (32:01):
Yes, in a really deep way.

Speaker 2 (32:03):
Yeah, she's totally real. She really is something symbolic for something. Yeah. Yes.

Speaker 1 (32:11):
When I was hearing that song, I was like, I
see this girl. Yeah, yeah, you see her.

Speaker 3 (32:15):
Yeah, she like smoke skinny cigarette and being being she's
a little le Yes, she's a little bit like she's.

Speaker 4 (32:22):
Got a vocal, fry vocal.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
But it doesn't feel dated. It feels very good on her.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
Dating and I will say being at Coachella around seventy
five thousand of those girls was a good vibe cool.
And I wasn't sure about her doing the Friday night
because I felt like that should be a party. Like
in my head, I was like switch Dojah and Lana,
put Lana on Sunday night, Dojah will get everything started.
And then now having seen it, I'm like, everything was
exactly everything.

Speaker 4 (32:49):
Yes, yeah, did you go?

Speaker 2 (32:50):
I didn't go. He's never been, never been what people
do with your music, though, I think like, if we're
gonna compare Laana heads to like Angels and people like
really like love you I feel like you get people
to like do the digging of like oh my god,
like it's this there's this whole album that you know,
like they really start to like dig through the crate.
And I think people love to like take your stuff,

(33:12):
all the stems, whatever and then just like re arrange
it and like they have fun with the building blocks
that you're giving.

Speaker 4 (33:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think my music is like
intrinsically like for the night.

Speaker 2 (33:23):
Yes, you know.

Speaker 3 (33:25):
I mean you can listen to it in the day,
you can it in the car like whatever, but generally
it's like the best night time.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
I remember, like I saw you at the will Turn
a few years ago, and just what was happening on
stage was so great and one of my favorite songs
of yours is I Don't Want to Know, and like
I just like you had this like really cool purple
light just like I don't know, just like you're not
like synesthetic, are you?

Speaker 4 (33:47):
I am?

Speaker 2 (33:49):
I could tell Yeah, So someone like got into your
face was like you're not actually no, no, I.

Speaker 3 (33:55):
Just it's like one of those things where you know,
like when you do your first interviews and it's like
one of the first things you've ever said and then I.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
Like it's because people are like she's synesthetic, test her,
but you actually do experience.

Speaker 3 (34:07):
Yeah, And for me it's like really helpful with writing. Yeah,
when I'm writing, I'm like, this song is purple like,
and then I'll be like, hey, gee, you make the
purple stuff.

Speaker 1 (34:17):
I wanted to ask you this question about like, when
you sit down to write a song, is it like
because it feels like equal parts important and obviously it is,
but I guess my question is is it the sound
and like where you're going silically that dictates what something
is going to be about, or do you come in
with an emotion that you need to get up?

Speaker 3 (34:32):
With this record, it's been very much that I came
in with what I wanted to say, whereas on previous
records it's not actually really been like this.

Speaker 4 (34:41):
With this record, it's been so lyrically.

Speaker 3 (34:43):
Led, Like I've been like I want to write a
song about my kind of sticky relationship with my mom
and dad, which is apple, or like I want to
write the song about not being sure if I want
to have kids, or you know, like it's been very
very like it's there, it's in my head, like mean

(35:04):
girls kind of like piecing that around like a few
different girls I know, and thinking about like qualities that
they have and putting that in a song three sixty.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
Look and your book NDS are there, It's thanks. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:19):
And with that it was very like, Okay, I want
to talk about me like being the like a sonic
reference for people, but through the like lens of Julia
kind of being the like New York like it girl,
street fashion girl that everybody's referencing, you.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
Know, Julia Fox mean yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:38):
So it was like very specific and then kind of
fun to build out these like pop songs that hopefully
like a lot of people can relate to, but they're
coming from like quite a specific idea right in place.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
And why do you think it didn't happen with the
other albums. It just like wasn't the way it was.

Speaker 3 (35:54):
I think I was writing very much like the way
I would write on previous records. We would build a
track and then I would get on the microphone and
literally be.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
Like and then figure out and then I would.

Speaker 3 (36:06):
Figure out the lyrics that fit the vowel sounds I
was kind of making. So there was already this sort
of like map of sound that you know, I was
trying to fit words.

Speaker 2 (36:15):
To you're saying, this is lyrically.

Speaker 4 (36:17):
Where lyrically left, and not really focusing too much.

Speaker 3 (36:19):
On rhyme or worrying about like what fits within a
stanza or anything like that. You know. So actually, just
I was really able to kind of just write lyrics
that I would actually say in a conversation rather than
crafting them into this sort of like song version of
what I would.

Speaker 1 (36:38):
Say, and even like melodically in the way that like
the song forms around as like even with girls so confusing,
it's girl, you know what I mean, Like there's something
there that's the melody, like the way you really sound
like I want to do this, you know what I mean?
Like you know, it's just like it feels like it's
born out of something you want to say this time,
and to hear that you say that is.

Speaker 2 (36:58):
Yeah, it works back on this thing of like I
think this is like extremely transparent in the way and
it is like holding up this mirror because like the
Warshack test of this album is the cover and everyone
having all these opinions about like the right and it's
in your and I think you kind of threw a
back of people in a nice way where you're like, no,
this is actually like this completely reveals what you think

(37:19):
like pop really should appear and how they should put
out their work and stuff like that, which I think
is great. But I think with the content of the album,
it's more about like guys, like I think about like
crazy dark shit about like my career. I'm not putting
words in your mouth, but it's like, I think it
is your most vulnerable album because you are being very
honest about like how you regard yourself in a way

(37:40):
that would have never occurred to me, you know what
I mean. Like there are allusions to like your career
being in this in between and I'm like, oh, like
six albums in like you feel that way, yeah, totally.

Speaker 3 (37:52):
Well, I just it's I think there aren't many people
who have a path that I have that there are,
Robin being one, and I think that's why there's a
lot of like synergy between the two of us. But
you know, somebody who had speaking about Robin now huge

(38:13):
commercial success right at the beginning of her career and
then kind of had to like rebrand and then became
this kind of gay icon, kind of.

Speaker 4 (38:27):
Like Girl of the Night.

Speaker 1 (38:29):
No that sounds wrong, but you know, like.

Speaker 3 (38:31):
Nighttime music like club like always no matter what she does,
is always going to be kind of like looked upon
as like a really important artist who's kind of like
treading new ground and you know, kind of like timeless.
And I think, you know, we share similarities in that,
you know, not my first music, but music for my

(38:52):
second record was globally like commercially successful.

Speaker 4 (38:57):
But at that point of time, for.

Speaker 3 (38:58):
Me, I didn't really have my artistry kind of totally
figured out in the way that I feel that I
do have now. I mean, there were definitely like good
through threads, but when I look at for example, like
sour Olivia Rodriguez, I'm like, oh, I wish i'd done
succer kind of like that, like because I think there

(39:20):
are parallels within those universes. But I think she just
did it better because I think she I don't know,
I don't think I knew myself that well at that
point in time when I was doing that record, and
I look at some of the decisions she made and
I'm like, oh wow, it's like still really like pop

(39:41):
and kind of like touching on this like live like
punkish stuff. Yeah, but it's done in a way that
to me is still very cool. Whereas I feel like
when I look back on Soccer there are elements of
it there.

Speaker 4 (39:52):
I'm like, oh, that's just a bit annoying shing, you
know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (39:55):
I've told you though, that like True Romance is still
the perfect I don't know how you feel about that album,
but it's like I feel like that is still for Charlie.
That is still like that's the through throughout, that's the yeah,
And like I still listen to So Far Away and
I'm like, this is fundamentally the same stuff she's putting it,
she's put out through her whole career, and like that

(40:15):
is like music of the Night where it's like the
beginnings of like bedroom pop, this whole thing now that
has this whole you know, life and culture around it.
Like I think you really broke ground in that way
with it, Like yeah, Sucker is its own thing, and
that must have been so strange and so complicated, but
it's still a great record, the True Romance. I think
it's still like you you can always always fall back

(40:37):
on that first record is like.

Speaker 4 (40:39):
Yeah, I love that record.

Speaker 1 (40:40):
I love that record.

Speaker 4 (40:41):
But yeah, anyways, I think it's like, it's just interesting.

Speaker 3 (40:47):
My career hasn't been like a to be it's been
like kind of it's like a weird jp qat and
it's like stradla this like commercial thing, also being a songwriter,
also being linked to the underground, disregarding that and coming

(41:11):
back and.

Speaker 4 (41:12):
It's a mess.

Speaker 2 (41:13):
It's not a mess. It's that I think.

Speaker 4 (41:15):
I'm sure you nice way Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:18):
People don't have that trajector anymore because we're so afree
to take the risk, whether from the label or from
the artists themselves. Like I think you have been so
good about using whatever the apparatus is, whatever you have
within you to just like make it. Like that's like
that's how I'm feeling now. Is to me, it's like, yeah,
you just fucking made it, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (41:47):
You have had these like when you describe it as
a mess. It is interesting because it's like there's these
spikes of like these mainstream moments, like going back to
like boom Clap like that, being in like love Simon.

Speaker 5 (41:59):
Yeah, like that was like but I guess that's what
it's like.

Speaker 2 (42:06):
That kind of was our faulty.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
They were still gay though, but like that, and then
I remember it was a few years ago now, but
we were in the Fire Island movie and when we
found out that the Boys remix was going to be
in our trailer, yeah, so cool. I was like, thank god,
because this is going to get across like the fun
of this. It's going to make it seem even more

(42:31):
fun than it is. Like and also just like there
was something about doesn't that song also start promising young women?
Like so it's just like there are these like moments
in like big mainstream that like you're right there, and
so I wonder how do you feel when something is
perceived on that level? Is that like an exciting thing
or it is a little bit like.

Speaker 4 (42:52):
No, no, I feel good about it.

Speaker 3 (42:53):
It's like, Okay, I think because there are some things
you mentioned that so like Fire Island promising young women,
those things feel really exciting to me and inspiring and
happy to be involved in them. But I think it's
like what I've learned, like going back and forth between
this kind of like more commercial version of myself to

(43:13):
this kind of more I'm really just leading with like
what's in my brain and my you know, instinct. I've
just learned now from doing it so long. I can't
like fake. I just can't like fake pushing the commercial
button like I.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
Cock a Cole.

Speaker 2 (43:33):
I can't do it.

Speaker 3 (43:34):
I can't like And that's no disrespect to the people
who do. Some people are just like made to like
live in that world and like they want to make
the music that it's going to like really succeed in
that world.

Speaker 4 (43:47):
And it's really hard to succeed in that world.

Speaker 3 (43:50):
Like I'm not taking that away from anyone, but like,
I just can't do it because when I've written those
songs and I put them out, it's like they only
go so far because I think there's a block that
the fans see as well.

Speaker 4 (44:05):
They're just like, she's not that girl. Like that's not
who she is. She's not that girl.

Speaker 3 (44:09):
Like some of them can, like maybe a less hardcore
fan can get down with it, but it's like, you know,
it's just like when you smell a rat or whatever.
It's like, I have to just be yourself myself.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
Something in the milk ain't clean. Yes, when you're not
being yourself, and I can't fucking nor should you have to.

Speaker 4 (44:32):
I can't do because it makes me miserable.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
You have to sing that music every night.

Speaker 1 (44:37):
I think it was Dua who said we were just
talking to her about her album and she we were
talking about this like theme that she has of like positivity,
and the messages that she has are usually like up
and she's like, well, I have to sing it every
fucking night, So if it's gonna be something that's in
my mouth every single night, it better tastes good, like
you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (44:54):
Like it's so funny because I'm the opposite.

Speaker 2 (44:56):
Of Yeah, really, if I had to sing.

Speaker 3 (44:59):
Really overly positives like boom clap is a good example. Obviously,
it's so different from like radical optimism, like completely different
sounding records, et cetera. But like that's funny that she
says that, and that makes sense for her because she
is I think she is always really kind of like
seizing like the positivity in life.

Speaker 4 (45:18):
I kind of like to dwell in the kind of
like sit in the ship.

Speaker 1 (45:24):
And externalize that because that is also a valid emotion
that people out there.

Speaker 4 (45:27):
I have to do it, I could. Yeah, that's so
that's really interesting.

Speaker 2 (45:31):
Yeah yeah, but like I feel that this is like
just like like.

Speaker 3 (45:38):
It's kind like a vision of like me performing radical optimism.
And doing brat like three six.

Speaker 4 (45:45):
Five Putty Girl and then me doing and like both
of us.

Speaker 3 (45:51):
Like being on our like the versions of what those
tours are.

Speaker 2 (45:55):
And I want to see that how is that?

Speaker 4 (45:56):
How is how's it going down?

Speaker 1 (45:58):
This is?

Speaker 2 (45:58):
But this is how you know that? Like you're doing
the right thing?

Speaker 1 (46:01):
Is that?

Speaker 2 (46:02):
Like you like we love Dua. It would be crazy
if she did three sixty and it would be kind
of crazy if you did Radical Optimists. It's like you
are doing the thing you were meant to do. It
is purely externalized from whatever your inner life is. And
I feel like you're what you're saying is maybe the
pendulum stops swinging, like you've landed in this nice space
of like I'm in between or I'm more of this

(46:22):
one thing than I am this thing, And like I
feel like reflective surfaces are a big part of this album.
That you look at the mirror, you see me like
and you're holding up a mirror to society? Am I being?

Speaker 1 (46:33):
So you went the reflective surface motif, but like use it.

Speaker 2 (46:43):
Use it like a mirror, like a mirror. We gotta
ask Charlie the question, Yes we do. So this is
the central question of lost culture. It's what was the
culture that made you say culture is for you. You
can look back and be like, I am largely.

Speaker 1 (46:57):
Me because of this thing I experienced.

Speaker 3 (46:59):
I think think it was and maybe this is not.
It was very surprising, but I think it was like
the London rave scene and that like culture of like
London warehouse parties that I kind of came up through
because that sort of in turn put me very onto

(47:21):
kind of.

Speaker 4 (47:22):
Like club kids stuff.

Speaker 3 (47:24):
When I was younger and when I was in art school,
I was always kind of like in this sort of
like Lee Bowery like inspired like Michael allc kind of
still there's a core scene. Yeah, like those parties like
that level of yes, totally and that level of kind
of like DIY aesthetic with clothes and music and yeah.

Speaker 4 (47:47):
I think that really formed who I am.

Speaker 2 (47:51):
You find it.

Speaker 3 (47:52):
I think it was from starting going to these parties
because when the must have been like two thousand and
seven and eight, when I was going in London, I
was young.

Speaker 4 (48:03):
I would go with my parents, Oh wow, which was
not cool.

Speaker 2 (48:06):
Were you guys like in Essex going to Yeah?

Speaker 4 (48:09):
Yeah, yeah, they would drive me.

Speaker 3 (48:10):
I would get asked ahead of my space and I
knew this like promoter who was like come and play
and we would like drive into London and I would
play at like three am.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
You being booked for these yeah.

Speaker 4 (48:21):
It was being booked. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (48:22):
And that was kind of my first like look into
kind of night life and like party culture.

Speaker 4 (48:30):
And at that point in time, I guess it was
like our version of Indie Sleeves was it was New Rave, which.

Speaker 2 (48:37):
Was like you know for sure.

Speaker 3 (48:38):
Yeah, And so that was sort of like a kind
of regurgitation of you know, all the prior like first
second wave of club kids that were coming before. So
I kind of just got sort of like sucked in
through that way.

Speaker 2 (48:54):
But and then you learned about the prior wave that
felt like education. There was some like rooting for this.
It wasn't like it just kind of came about of nowhere,
like you had a history to like, yeah, I had to.

Speaker 3 (49:03):
I had to soak in the history because I wanted
to understand like what Michael Atlck was doing and what
like that original like club scene and like those club
kids were doing back here in New York and those
levels of like crazy parties they would throw like they
threw one on a bridge where all they like shut
both ends of the bridge and like you know, just

(49:26):
this like lore of like partying and how that kind
of like spawned into music and then began to kind
of create like new sounds of music.

Speaker 4 (49:36):
I think that it's like such a rich thing for me.

Speaker 2 (49:41):
Yeah, like like you like at the Limelight would have
been so fucking kind.

Speaker 4 (49:46):
Imagine, yea wild imagine.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
But that's where do you live now?

Speaker 2 (49:50):
Do you? Do you still like.

Speaker 4 (49:51):
I'm half in LA and half in London?

Speaker 2 (49:53):
Yeah, and forth back and forth La. Or do you
like it?

Speaker 3 (49:58):
I am beginning to maybe be over it.

Speaker 4 (50:02):
I've been there for ten years.

Speaker 1 (50:03):
That feels like that feels like double yeah, the amount
of time it would take.

Speaker 2 (50:07):
Ye over it?

Speaker 4 (50:08):
Yeah, I'm thinking about New York.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
Actually, I think New York.

Speaker 4 (50:11):
I lived here.

Speaker 1 (50:11):
I think I think New York is New York and London.
Like I guess, like if you were someone who wanted
two different experiences in the two places you live, Like
I'm here because I want to rest, meaning LA, and
I'm here because I want to be included in what's
going on in like the culture that's London, but like
New York is New York.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
Yeah, I do love rest in New York. I do
love London too. Did you love performing at Coachella?

Speaker 4 (50:35):
I was, honestly so scarce.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
Was it scary, yeah, because.

Speaker 4 (50:39):
You know with.

Speaker 3 (50:41):
Yeah, and everyone was like it's all about the live stream.
Everyone's like about the live strain. So that made me
kind of treat them on like TV.

Speaker 2 (50:50):
Oh got hopeful.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
Now.

Speaker 3 (50:52):
Well, I was happy with how it looked and how
I sounded because I was thinking so much about the
all cars.

Speaker 4 (51:00):
But it definitely like was just stressful.

Speaker 2 (51:03):
That was a major It was a major change.

Speaker 1 (51:06):
So I remember we saw Chapel in the Gobi tent
and then right after that we walked over to Saprina
Carpenter on the Coachella stage, and I remember it felt
like the energy was lower. But then I was like, oh,
but on this stage they're thinking about the live stream,
whereas in like the Golby and Sahara tents, they're just
giving a live show and it feels like that. Like,

(51:28):
so the live experience does feel I would imagine, like
more alive there and maybe as the performer, it feels
more connected, whereas like on the Coachella stage where you were,
it is a lot about like they're watching at home.

Speaker 4 (51:40):
Yeah, it was scary.

Speaker 2 (51:41):
Yeah, that's okay. I mean.

Speaker 1 (51:47):
I was having the best.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
You used to do these like videos, these little short
films of him like teaching you how to like have tea.
Like he was just so adorable people don't talk about
with Lee. Barry is like, yeah, it's like the looks
and all these things, but it's like at his heart,
he was just like sensitive Australian, right, Australian, Australian. I'm
confused it as a bread but you know, maybe maybe

(52:12):
you're right.

Speaker 4 (52:13):
Maybe you're right.

Speaker 2 (52:14):
Now we can't look it up. I hope you're both.
I hope you're both wrong. But like, did it take you?
Like was there a developmental thing for you to like
grow up in that and then be like I'm gonna
like do you like, I'm gonna make this like part
of me.

Speaker 4 (52:28):
I don't think it was a choice, you know.

Speaker 3 (52:30):
I think it's like it just I gravitated so hard
towards it. I think it was like I saw elements
of myself in what was being created in the worlds
that I was looking into.

Speaker 4 (52:47):
There was there was like.

Speaker 3 (52:48):
A punkness and like a kind of freeeness, and it
felt that there was like a possibility to be a
little messy and not perfect and not look a certain
type of a way to still be able to express
yourself and feel really like validated or something. And I

(53:09):
think I was searching for that a lot when I
was growing.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
Up, and that that could be a version of success
is just going there and participating and being in the
culture and being around people that make you feel good
and not this like more calculated metric of like, well
did this happen? Did you look like this right?

Speaker 4 (53:24):
And be rewarded for being a freak?

Speaker 3 (53:26):
I think that was I think that was something that
really like made me like gravitate towards that world, because
that was what was like celebrated, like if you were
like really like wearing something.

Speaker 4 (53:37):
Like weird or like you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
Or like you got attention, you got like.

Speaker 4 (53:42):
Yeah, right, I was like, Oh, that's cool.

Speaker 3 (53:45):
Like you don't have to be this kind of traditional
version of beauty or talent or like whatever it is.
It's that you can kind of make a fantasy and
it be valid even if it's like a little fucked
and ugly, you know, or whatever.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
That's your route though, Like that's why it's like you
don't have to worry about being like the moral model
for anything. It's like just like let that ship go
because you started out in this like environment where like
it didn't really matter. Like nightlife culture is about like
unrepressed everything. It's it's just like humanity revealing itself and

(54:21):
being so like.

Speaker 1 (54:22):
I love it, you know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (54:23):
I love it. It's so interesting.

Speaker 2 (54:25):
Have you done Mighty Hooplo?

Speaker 1 (54:26):
Have been to Mighty Hoop?

Speaker 4 (54:27):
I don't don't know that.

Speaker 2 (54:29):
Something's like big queer, Like.

Speaker 1 (54:30):
It's like a queer that idline four times? What's that?

Speaker 3 (54:38):
There's a park that's like Victoria, I haven't done it.

Speaker 2 (54:42):
You haven't done it, no problem, but it's like it's
like a teeny tiny coach but in London with all
queer like Jason's. That's so.

Speaker 1 (54:55):
It's fucked in a crazy way.

Speaker 2 (54:57):
Excited for to I am.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
Have you guys been wanting to tour together? It feels
like such a natural.

Speaker 3 (55:03):
Yeah, you know, we have the same manager. Our manager
has been trying to get us to talk together for years,
and every time we're like, yeah, like obviously we love
each other, but I think the music has never quite
lined up.

Speaker 4 (55:19):
And now it's like so lining up.

Speaker 3 (55:22):
You know. So this time when our manager like for
like literally the fifth time, was like, do you guys
want to talk together? We were like, yeah, we do
because it really made sense and we could see how
it would really like flow and work together.

Speaker 2 (55:33):
Yeah, so sung together.

Speaker 4 (55:36):
I think.

Speaker 3 (55:36):
So we're to be honest, we're still putting it together,
but I think.

Speaker 4 (55:39):
That, yes, it's what people eat.

Speaker 3 (55:42):
Yeah, I mean, I don't think it's going to be
like a full Medley situation, but there's definitely going to
be a few moments you go together.

Speaker 1 (55:53):
Yeah, I did see you guys. I think it was
also at the World Turn like ys ago, you guys
were on the same shows that.

Speaker 2 (56:01):
I did it artists.

Speaker 3 (56:02):
Yeah, it was a festival that I think we both
did together.

Speaker 1 (56:07):
Yeah, because I remember just thinking and I forget.

Speaker 3 (56:11):
Festival that maybe was Troy's invention, but maybe it was also.

Speaker 4 (56:16):
Mind but I don't remember.

Speaker 1 (56:18):
He totally did Peers every year he did.

Speaker 4 (56:22):
Yeah. Yeah, well it's gonna be it's gonna be.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
Wait, people were freaking out, yes, situation, which.

Speaker 2 (56:29):
Is always a good feeling when it's like together, I know.

Speaker 3 (56:32):
So yeah, we're so happy, We're really happy. It's gonna
be fun.

Speaker 4 (56:36):
It's like pretty quick.

Speaker 2 (56:37):
Huh, I don't It's like a couple of months, right,
It's like.

Speaker 4 (56:40):
Not even is it like five weeks?

Speaker 2 (56:44):
Okay, where is it in New York? Is that ms
G y M?

Speaker 4 (56:48):
Obviously would It's gonna be really fun.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
And you know I paid top dollar for you, like
I don't think anymore.

Speaker 4 (56:59):
Yeah, oh fine, I'll take it.

Speaker 2 (57:02):
I'll take it.

Speaker 1 (57:04):
I did hear a story one time of I won't
say any details until after, but there was an artist
who was in a big feud with this other famous person,
and the famous person reached out like years after to
like get tickets to a show, and the person just
sent back a ticket link and said buy one.

Speaker 4 (57:20):
I love.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
All right, So it's time.

Speaker 4 (57:32):
For I don't think so okay you're doing and.

Speaker 2 (57:36):
I just know you're gonna pop the off.

Speaker 1 (57:37):
So this is this is our sixty second segment where
we drag name cultural item.

Speaker 2 (57:42):
Here.

Speaker 1 (57:43):
I walked into this myself today. Uh it's my own fault,
but I am gonna okay. Here we are.

Speaker 2 (57:49):
There's some self accountability. Yes it is Matt Rogers. I
don't think so some of these time starts, I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (57:52):
Honey wearing a graphic tea on the subway, because here's
the thing. People are gonna read it, and then they
were gonna engage with it, and then you're trapped with
them for what could be as much as a half hour.
So today I have a shirt on that says, is
it gonna be a threesome? I'm challengers coded my whole
life right now. This is merch from Focused Features, Thank
you again, Driveway Dolls and for Driveaway Dolls. I haven't
seen it yet, but Wade's sister, I just know that

(58:15):
I was on the subway today with a gentleman who
could read the shirt and did out loud, and so
then he was engaging with it. He caused everyone to
turn and I said, you know what, maybe if I
hadn't worn a shirt with words on it that could
be read, I wouldn't be having a conversation at all,
least of all about threesomes. And this person was not
necessarily someone I wanted to engage with about threesomes. If

(58:36):
you know, if you see me wearing this and you
think we would vibe, I don't know, maybe I will
be wearing it the whole rest of today. This episode
comes out in like three weeks, but I'll wear it again. Actually, yes,
the day this episode is released, I'm gonna be walking
the streets and you're wearing it. Say hi, but not
if you're like a crazy person on the subway.

Speaker 2 (58:52):
And that's one minute. So that's my ole thing on today.

Speaker 4 (58:54):
That is so good. Thank you.

Speaker 2 (58:59):
You're gonna be so good.

Speaker 1 (59:00):
We all we all know you talk super fast? Do
I recording media? You you go, So let me tell
you something.

Speaker 4 (59:08):
Like in a way now, I'm like, do you know
it's like, oh, you mean in song?

Speaker 1 (59:14):
I'm just saying your we know you can get on,
you can hit.

Speaker 2 (59:18):
You can rip. You know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (59:19):
In that way? Is that like a problems?

Speaker 2 (59:25):
Yeah. Everyone everyone's saying about Charlie's They're like, yeah, she
just talks too fast, and I just wish it wasn't
so fast. I'm just kidding.

Speaker 1 (59:31):
No, I'm just saying, like, I've heard the album and
I know that I know that you can keep up
the tempo.

Speaker 4 (59:36):
I understand.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
Speaking of tempo, you're ready to fucking do this? Yeah, okay,
so this is villain yangs. I don't think so, honey.
As time starts now, I.

Speaker 2 (59:44):
Don't think so, honey, pubic hair. Why is it looking
different down there than up here? I look like miss
Frizzle got ade job. I'm curly, curly, curly, and I
wish I could get a perm up here and make
my give my if a little swoop. My pubic hair
is so tightly coiled down there, and when you see
it on the bathroom floor, you go, oh, I'm that

(01:00:06):
is not something I want to see. And it's if
you're living alone like me, it's just you. I don't
like how I don't like it. I don't like what
it says about me. I think pubic hair like either
when you have it, it's like, oh, let's let's shear it,
and then when you don't have it, it's like sheer, Well,
now you look like a fucking mole. Rap, there's no
in between. Second, why can't we just stay there? And

(01:00:29):
I'm as sure as helling laser removing it, because it's
like because like I said, if it's gone, it looks
even crazier than if it is. A five seconds so
it's a jungle and I have a really crazy situation.
I don't know why it's different down there. It's in
body hair all supposed to be the same. And that's
one minute.

Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
You're the only person I believe in history to say
you wish what was down there, You wish your pubic
hair was on your head.

Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
I just wanted to go both ways. If my hair
on my head looked pubic, I'd be like, well, at
least it's consistent.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
This is so shocking, first of all, laser hair removal
on your pubic area and asshole, maybe.

Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
Some people do it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
The guys I've been hooking up with lately don't seem
to care at all about maintaining it down there, or
maybe they just think they don't care what I think. Yeah,
I think it has been so wild and free as
I no matter your gender, it's like there is not
a great way to manage it, like period. Well maybe
it's also because I'm hooking up with like men that
are my age in their thirties and not like just
giving up. This isn't like when you're in fresh in

(01:01:28):
your twenties and everyone thinks like, oh, I should like
manscape or whatever, or like really keep it clean down there.
It's like give it a rest, girl, Like we're all
just trying to live life.

Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
When no one cares that you're a hairy one. No
one cares.

Speaker 1 (01:01:40):
But I bet your pubic hair is thrilling.

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
It's freshly shorn.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
Oh, why you have plans later?

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
No, I just it was getting out of hand and
I am in that liminal space now where I'm like,
this sucks. Okay. No, I'm actually okay, I'm moisturizing.

Speaker 4 (01:01:55):
Cool down there.

Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
Oh yeah, I guess I should use I should try
my purple shampoo from my blonde Yeah, get blonde.

Speaker 4 (01:02:11):
Don My heart just skipped me.

Speaker 1 (01:02:17):
Something.

Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
You're just speak the truth. This is Charlie Xx's I
don't think that one of your time starts now.

Speaker 4 (01:02:21):
Okay, I don't think so, honey.

Speaker 3 (01:02:23):
I'm actually coming for a group of people, these people
who have this stuck up I roll the attitude towards
reality TV.

Speaker 4 (01:02:35):
You know what I mean. Back to the beginning of
our conversation, what is not to love?

Speaker 3 (01:02:40):
I feel like there is such a high low conundrum
to reality TV that just makes me want to sink
my teeth in. Whether it be our favorite Housewives for
Salt Lake City, Potomac also Miami also heard it's pretty good,
but also what about some other amazing shows below? Down

(01:03:01):
under below Decks Sailing Yard, below Mediterranean Love Island, Australia.
British heard the US wasn't that good. But anyway, I
just think that there is such a psychology, such a wonderful,
amazing world to delve into. In reality TV. It's like
the factory. It's absolutely fabulous. Just keep it coming and
don't judge.

Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
It and and you I don't think so, honey.

Speaker 2 (01:03:25):
The world there reality TV is not trash.

Speaker 4 (01:03:28):
It's not trash. It's usual. Sweat during that, Oh my god,
I was like sweated.

Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
And look, but that's like a good sign like we have.
I'm just like we had a clear void come in recently.
And he when he sweats, he means it's the spirit movie.
It's like energy is moving through. That's what's happened.

Speaker 4 (01:03:48):
Amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
Yeah, you should watch Couple's Therapy. Oh so good with.

Speaker 4 (01:03:58):
She is the sex.

Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
She's so sexy, isn't do you just want.

Speaker 3 (01:04:02):
To be here?

Speaker 2 (01:04:04):
And what just happened here? I love just the tiny
little what and what's and what was? She's like talk
about this, She's amazing. I'm so glad you watched her.

Speaker 4 (01:04:13):
I love her. I think her fashion is incredible.

Speaker 3 (01:04:15):
It just thinks she's cheat her apartment's really cool.

Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
Yeah, have you gotten to the lockdown stuff yet where
they bring the cameras into her apartment because she's doing
all of it through like her so that you see
her apartment and it's like kind of messy in a
very charming way. She's got all he kids running around.

Speaker 4 (01:04:31):
She how many kisses does she happen to? I think
she's so fast.

Speaker 2 (01:04:35):
What I love is when she speaks to her therapist
a real yeah, Virginia, Virginia, she's fr she's she's a
real super sar. But you finished it all the way through,
there's like, I mean, whatever, we want to talk about it.
There's a really Palestinian queer couple that's amazing. And then
like and then Orner's like when she finds out that

(01:04:56):
one of them is Palestini and she goes, you know,
I'm from Israel, right, and then like or like blest
like is like on socials being like this is crazy.
Yeah wait, but you should watch it all the way through.

Speaker 3 (01:05:07):
You would fucking love it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
But that's between like that's not quite reality. It's not
quite documentary. Right. It's like they know they're being filmed,
but they can't see the cameras.

Speaker 3 (01:05:16):
Yeah, I think they've done that shut by the way.
I have no idea how long we have left, but
I'm like, please, we could do a whole episode on this.

Speaker 4 (01:05:22):
I feel like they've shot that show.

Speaker 3 (01:05:26):
In a retasteful way, yes, and I hope it never changes.

Speaker 1 (01:05:29):
You know what, you want to know what it is.
It's like you can tell that well, obviously it's all
hit and that's like part of it, but it's still
really elevated the way they shoot it. And I just
what I love is that they seem to catch micro
emotions like it's really like intentionally edited, and I believe
it's like really smartly done through her lens. Yeah, because

(01:05:49):
we're making a joke about like what was that? But
we saw it too, yea, you know what I mean.
And also it has to be so crazy, like to
be in those sessions and then watch it after because
it's also an edited version of that session. You think
that would also maybe give you a little bit of
a complex like why am I being edited this way
and not that way? Like I can't understand saying yes

(01:06:11):
to that, but I'm so thrilled that people do me too.

Speaker 4 (01:06:14):
Do you have a favorite couple or most like.

Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
The young Queer couple, Like they were really young and
they had been in a relationship for like three years
sort of formatively, and one of them wanted to be
in an open relationship and the other did not or
was adjusting to that. And I think ultimately what they
had to really figure out and admit to each other
was that they were.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
Not right for each other.

Speaker 1 (01:06:36):
And watching that play out was heartbreaking, and I just
hope that they could still figure it out to be
in each other's lives, because that's I think the hardest
thing about when a relationship ends is it's like I
don't want to lose you as the person.

Speaker 2 (01:06:48):
You know, like that.

Speaker 1 (01:06:49):
And I thought that was just like a beautiful illustration
and like you know, examination of that kind of thing,
like I love you more than anything.

Speaker 2 (01:06:58):
This is not right. Yeah, do you have a favorite?

Speaker 4 (01:07:01):
Yeah? Mine? Also season one, it was the kind of
like very sort of set in his ways, quite sexy
you're talking about.

Speaker 3 (01:07:13):
Man and the woman who was sort of willing to
try anything, and he was just he would like get
up during the session and walk around and he was
just like being like very controlling.

Speaker 2 (01:07:27):
But history is his story was so wild, like like
that woman like fucked him when he was like fourteen,
tied into a.

Speaker 4 (01:07:33):
Bed and yeah, so the way it came out again
could be the edit. We don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:07:37):
It was just sort of like they'd done like four
or five sessions. Yeah, nothing was really like going anywhere.
And then one day he's.

Speaker 4 (01:07:43):
Just like, well, you know there was that time where
I got tied to a bed. I like all, I
was like what really, Yeah, it's just like he just
like throws it in out of nowhere.

Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
Yeah that's real though, that's the real therapy. Shit. Yeah,
there's no like easing into it. Sometimes it just kind
of drop it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
Well, you get the sense that he either was just
as stubborn controlling with like releasing that information as he
is in the immediate thing, or I think some guys
that are like that just don't understand that it has
affected them in that way.

Speaker 3 (01:08:17):
I mean, who knows, But I was under the impression
that maybe he just.

Speaker 1 (01:08:21):
Like wasn't there. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:08:24):
But then the thing that was really interesting about them
was then Awna would go and speak to her therapist
about how she was getting very triggered specifically by him,
and that was like at this extra dynamic that was
really interesting, and she was kind of talking about how
she needed to make sure she was providing like fair

(01:08:46):
and equal counsel, but she was like so annoyed by him.

Speaker 2 (01:08:49):
Yeah, that is interesting. I think there's multiple people like this,
Like he's one of the people who says her, I
could do your job. Yeah, I really I couldn't believe
that that was Can you mentioned the gall Do you
have a favorite couple? I I like, there's a couple
of season two that's really great. It's two men. One
of them is a ballet dancer. One of them, Oh,
they were great. They were great, and then one of

(01:09:10):
them like had a really harroring journey with like sobriety,
and then then the pandemic happened. Then the pandemic happened.
And then there's this one couple. There's a problem couple
of season three, and she order talks to Virginia and
she talks to a peer group of other therapists and
all of them like help her crack this one couple
because it's she had to watches like I don't know
because the guy was stone walling, and there's there's such
a sensational clip of her, like they play at the

(01:09:32):
beginning of the season where she she just like yep,
they're screaming and she goes mastop. You guys, right now,
I'm not the right therapist for you. And then you're like,
you're like, how does it get there? How does it
get there? And watch you watch it and.

Speaker 1 (01:09:44):
Great, there was a great couple that was she was
a dancer in The Lion King, yes, and and it's
like she was like she was always busy at night,
and so she could never have dinner with the family
and her kids, and like it was like a thing.
He's like, well, you're never home for dinner. It's like,
I'm in the Lion King. And you knew this when
you marry me, because she went the Lion King for

(01:10:05):
as long as the earth has been I know, security,
are you a therapy icon? Who are you a therapy icon?

Speaker 2 (01:10:16):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:10:17):
I meant the Lion King being what a job.

Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
But honestly, I can't believe I was never not in it.
I can't believe I was ever No, I can't believe
I was ever not in it because.

Speaker 3 (01:10:30):
I love it being therapy Again, the King, I was like, lying.

Speaker 1 (01:10:35):
I don't think there's many roles for me in the
Lion King on Broadway. But I would love to help
out you ushering, but no, therapy is great.

Speaker 2 (01:10:43):
Therapy is great, speaking of great, speaking of great, the
album is fucking sublime. Yeah, good for you, and I'm
glad you responded. Seems like you responded positively when I
when I made a comparison the XX world.

Speaker 4 (01:10:54):
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.

Speaker 3 (01:10:58):
Of course you're right, and I'm I think, yeah, you
nailed it, youmailed it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:03):
Yeah, fucking good. We love you, Charlie.

Speaker 4 (01:11:06):
I love you.

Speaker 1 (01:11:07):
But everything you do. Course it's pretty fun.

Speaker 2 (01:11:11):
What the end every episode with the.

Speaker 1 (01:11:13):
Song I'm Breaking?

Speaker 3 (01:11:15):
Ever?

Speaker 1 (01:11:19):
Wait, why do I love all your bells? You know
what I love?

Speaker 2 (01:11:21):
Official?

Speaker 4 (01:11:22):
Official?

Speaker 1 (01:11:24):
Official Official reminds me of Jared's first He was my boyfriend,
he's my best friend. We figured it out in the
way that I hope that couple therapy couple did.

Speaker 2 (01:11:34):
But official was like, that was the song WHOA.

Speaker 1 (01:11:37):
Like the little things are happening that makes me

Speaker 2 (01:11:41):
Writing the things that go to make us Official

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Bowen Yang

Matt Rogers

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